Transcripts For CSPAN3 Education Secretary DeVos Testifies On Presidents 2021 Budget Request 20240713

With us. And today, as you know, we are going to examine the president s department of education budget request for fiscal year 2021. As i was reviewing the budget materials, madam secretary, this much was clear to me. That you are seeking to privatize Public Education. I believe, and ive had this conversation before with you, i believe its the wrong direction for our students and for our country. Instead, we ned to be moving toward expanding Public Policies, lake Early Childhood education, that we know helps students to succeed. We see this in our countries around the globe. They are not shrinking public support, but in fact, are expanding it. Ill get more into the consequences of the cuts that you are proposing, but i want to start by examining your privatization philosophy. The false premise on which it is built, and the research that it ignores. Contrary to your claims, the nations Public Education system, which 90 of our children attend, has witnessed significant progress for all groups of students over the last 30 years. Average mathematic scores of National Assessments of educational progress made, have improved by 4th graders by 13 . Eighth graders by 7 . While overall reading improvements have been more modest, fourth graders improved by 6 and eighth graders by 3 mc. Hispanic fourth grader scores improved by 6 , and eighth graders by 5 . These are significantly higher than 40 years ago, for all racial and ethnic groups. And i reflect on that, as ask myself the question, where would we be without federal investment . There is no question that there is more to do to address the despa disparities in achievement. We know we face significant challenges in the system with kids who come into our system, and education districts where they experience poverty and exposure to violence, often resulting in trauma. But the solution is not less resources, nor is it more privatization. Let me, if i can, just, a quote for you, from a report of, by dr. Pamela cantor who is a psychiatrist, and she cofounded an Educational Organization called turnaround for children, which translates the science of learning and development into a problemsolving in our schools. She led a team commissioned in new york city by the board of education to assess the impact of the terrorist attacks on the citys Public School children. What did she find, surprisingly, while 68 of the children they observed had experienced trauma sufficient to impair their functioning in school, it is from their ongoing experience of growing up in poverty, not from what they witnessed, that terrifying september day. In fact, the administrations own data has shown how privatization has let students down. The Trump Administration evaluated the dc opportunity Scholarship Program, and found that vouchers had a statistically significant negative impact on the mathematics achievement of impacted students. In other words, more vouchers lower math achievement. That is not a lone data point. I previous, previous multisector studies have found no student achievement scores for children in private schools were higher than those of children in Public Schools by any statistically significant degree. And i think they found this to be the case, i believe, in indiana, and in louisiana, and there are other examples which i can make available to you and to your staff. So youre pushed to privatize Public Education, so your push to prive size Public Education is based on in my view on false basis that it is not supported by data, and it would undermine the education of our students in nearly every state, particularly for vulnerable students in high need region, including the rural parts of our country. You would end career and College Readiness for 560,000 low income middle School Students across 45 states, by eliminating the highly Competitive Grant Program known as gear up. And minus 365 million. You would endanger academic tutoring, personal counseling, and other programs for 800,000 students in sixth grade by slashing trio programs by 140 million. Trio serves low income first generation students and students with disabilities, helping them to graduate from college. You would endanger Education Access for children experiencing homelessness, by eliminating the education for Homeless Children and youth program. Minus 102 million. This funding is desperately needed. In the 20162017 school year, more than 1. 3 million enrolled children had experienced homelessness at some point in the past three years, an increase of 7 in 20142015. You would endanger youth literacy, as well as potentially increased class size, and undermine efforts to support diverse teachers, by eliminating the main Program Supporting effective instruction state grants, which we increased the first time in many years. And weave youve taken 2. 1 billion away from this program. You would potentially put Higher Education out of the financial grasp of students by flat funding the pell grant. 40 of undergraduate students, 7 million students, rely on pell grants, to afford Higher Education. But while pell covered 79 of the average costs of tuition, fees, room and board at a fouryear public institution, in 1975, it covers only 29 today. Our students cannot afford for us to stand pat for this. And finally, your budget would risk exacerbating the financial challenges of underresourced, rural districts, by converting rural formula grants into a block grant. These districts already struggle, with lower student populations, higher transportation costs, and the move to undermine their funding in this way is unacceptable. With all of this, and i just say this to you, madam secretary, with all sincerity, this is not going to happen. It is not going to happen. I am supportive of the recognition of the idaa state grant, 100 million proposed increase, career Technical Education, 680 million, proposed increase, for the cte state grants, i am disappointed that Adult Education state grants are left with level funding, which ill plan to ask you about later. You have also once again requested an increase for student loan servicing. We included new reforms as you know in fiscal year 2020 built to help us conduct more oversight and ensure that borrowers are getting the help they need. Many of these ideas stem from an oversight hearing that this subcommittee held last year. And to be direct, i will need to see how the department implements the new requirements, as i review your request for next year. With regard to Charter Schools, there is a place for them. They have a role in our education system. However, we have moved in the direction of creating a parallel education system, concerns remain around issues of accountability and transparency, which to this point may not have been forthcoming. As i have said time and time again, i believe Charter Schools ought to be held to the same rigor, and where they fail, we need to know about it. And to close, madam secretary, you are clearly again, in my view seeking to privatize Public Education. I hope that i have been clear that we are not going to do that. Because doing so ignores the research indicating the gains we have made, ignores the many areas private education shortchanges students, ignores the very reason the federal government has needed to be involved in education. As so powerfully indicated with brown versus the board of education, and ignores the spirit and the values of this country. No, instead, we need to be expanding Public Policies that boost education attainment. Not restricting or reducing them. So i look forward to our discussion today. And now is my pleasure to turn to my colleague, the Ranking Member of the subcommittee congressman tom coal from oklahoma. Thank you very much, madam chairman. I want to tell you this is my favorite time of year because i get to spend so much time with you in this Committee Hearing and we will have dinner tonight and it is always a delight, it honestly is, big exchange of ideas and more cooperation than we tend to get credit for. Madam secretary, a particular pleasure for me to have you here today. Ive known you for a long time. Long before either of us are in our respective capacities and ill leave it to you to explain your Public Policy but there are education policy and one u, you you have always been advisizing education and what is the right job, role, or place for this particular student to be and i see a lot of that in your proposals and two youve never been afraid to put a bold idea on the table and advance it and i see that in our budget, and a lot of boldness, some of which i agree with and some quite frankly i dont, but it doesnt bother me, i like the idea that you are willing to break the mold and think about this, because weve got a lot of challenges. And we also, you know, you are our chief officer overseeing probably the most diverse educational system in the world. And i just think about my own district. Ive got five colleges and universities, everything from, you know, great comprehensive state institutions, to elite liberal arts institutions, to regional facilities to private christian colleges, and ive got, you know, like everybody else, most of the young people that im privileged to represent, and their families, go to Public Schools, where ive got Charter Schools, im got private Religious Schools, im got home school, and they all do a good job. They all wrestle with the same problems, and ive got one of the most robust career tech systems any place in the country throughout oklahoma and certainly in nye district. And i was particularly pleased with the number of proposals that you made in that regard. So i think well have a great discussion today. Im looking forward to your testimony. As a former educator, i understand how important it is for our entire population to have access to quality education. Without question, education is one of our most important Building Blocks for success, and access to quality learning directly impacts Lifelong Development and unlocks each individuals potential. I was pleased to see that your budget request continues to prioritize resources to certain populations of children, who need additional support, including children with special needs, and disabilities, and any indication and School Districts whose revenue has, indian, sim pacted by presence in their boundary. Im a support of career technical and education and im proud that my home state of oklahoma is leading wait in leading models in delivering cutting edge skills that can lead to good paying rewarding careers for students who do not wish to pursue a four year liberal arts degree and i thank you for your support of these programs and looking forward to ask you more he requests about the substantial increases in your budget, that your budget proposes for these programs this year. I also want to recognize your proposal to expand pell grants to students enrolled in shortterm programs that offer a president ial in high demand, in a high demand field. These opportunities offer high payment employment, in a variety of fields, needed throughout my district, as well as many others. Interesting to me, how many times weve had, when we do member testimony, members come here, and specifically push the need for career and Technical Education, both in terms of job opportunities, and talking to their employers, in terms of needed skills so i think youve really focused on a key area here. Ive spoken again to Small Business owners, other members of congress who believe that there is time to make pell grants available, individuals for enrollment and certificate based program and i applaud you for putting that on the table for us to consider. Madam secretary, your budget once again proposes to eliminate, consolidate, or change over two dozen programs. Some of these proposals may make sense in the context of a reauthorization or consolidation. I believe others are shortsighted. I actually agree with my friend the chairman particularly concerned about the proposal to move the successful trio program from a competitive grant model to the formula grants for states. Thats no surprise to you, thats been a position ive held throughout my career. Im also concerned about the proposal to consolidate several Minority Serving Institution funding into a single stream. As you know, these institutions serve distinct populations with different needs, and im not certain that such a change makes sense. Moreover, i feel that these often disadvantaged minority populations may be overlooked or marginalized, in, if theyre not singled out for special attention. So im interested in hearing your perspective on that. And i also would like to acknowledge your proposal to address limitations in the student aid program. Establishing federal student aid as a separate organization is an issue i think that is worth thinking about. Im not sure were the right people to consider it here. It really is much more of an authorizing function than were probably equipped to handle on this commit. But i do support your efforts for streamline and focused system for student borrow ares. The next project promises to modernize and improve the student loan structure benefitting 40 million customers. Finally while i tend to support block grants to states and freeing School Districts from the bureaucracy involved with administering dozens of small separate federal programs, i do have some concerns of consolidating some programs, such as the Charter School program, could have a negative consequence for the very students we hope to benefit by these proposals. And ill have a few questions about that. Again, theres a risk here that some states are welcoming the Charter School, others quite frankly are not. And so i worry a little bit about, you know, the Public Sector taking money that we want to try and seed these innovative things and i know you probably know more about this than anybody on this panel, youve got a lot of experience here, so im interested in your perspective on that. I know you faced a very difficult challenge in making all of the pieces fit into a tight budget. I may just point to secretary azar, i made this point with secretary azar yesterday, this is not necessarily your budget, this is the ombs budget that youre tasked to defend and thats what youre supposed to do, you work for the president of the united states, thats the budget process here. But obviously, you had to wrestle with a much smaller budget than you might have otherwise chosen. Im not going to ask you about that. I would expect you to be of course support ive of the president s position on this, and overall budget priorities. But i think that does put you, just as it did secretary azar, in a difficult position, sometimes you may well have been forced to make cuts that you did not advocate. There is a rather famous incident of that last year on Special Olympics as i recall. To i know you sometimes privately make an argument that we might agree with up here, but publicly, you got to go, you know, make the case. So again, i respect that. Thats one of the obligations you undertake when you accept a position as you have. And by the way, great personal sacrifice, it is not exactly a job you need. And i admire you quite frankly, for your commitment to Public Service. I know that under the leadership of our chairman, the gentle lady from connecticut, a strong quality education for students across the country will remain a fundamental priority in the creation of this years labor hhs bill, just as it was last year. Frankly just as it was when i was privileged to be chairman, and my friend has always been a good partner in that endeavor, whichever role she has, chairman, chair of the committee, or Ranking Member. I look forward to working with my friend once again, to craft a budget that balancing our many priorities, and invest in our countrys people and its future. I look forward to your testimony. And today, madam chairman, i yield back the balance of my time. Or madam secretary, i yield back to you, the chairman. I thank my friend, the Ranking Member, and again, look forward to working with you on this and we will put it together as we have in the past. And now id like to turn to the distinguished chair of the full committee, for any comments that she may have, congresswoman good morning. And thank you, madam secretary for appearing before the committee. I look forward to the exchange of ideas. And i want to thank the chair woman and Ranking Member for holding this hearing. This is the fourth request that the department has received from the department of education under your leadership that has been filled with program cuts and outright eliminations. Without fail, your vision hurts our students and their families. Like every previous year, we are going to reject this proposal. We would like us to believe that this proposal empowers states and districts with flexibility, but the numbers dont lie. You propose eliminating 41 programs. Cutting Education Funding overall by 6. 2 billion. The department of educations mission is to promote student achievement and preparation for Global Competitiveness by fostering educational excellence, and ensuring equal access. Secretary devos, your budget is clearly on a different mission. One that shirks accountability to our students and taxpayers. It would take more than my allotted time to read the complete list of eliminations and funding cuts. So i will only highlight a few. All of which demonstrate a lack of commitment to Educational Equity across elementary, secondary and postsecondary education. Where we should be protecting and building on a 16. 3 billion investment entitlement schools, your Budget Proposal has eliminated this crucial support, for students in high poverty schools. You propose eliminating full Service Community schools in my district. The Thomas Edison Elementary School in port chester was among the first in the country to implement the full Service Community school model. And their success has showed that integrating academics, social services, community engagement, improved student learning, strengthen families and empowers communities. I must admit i was an author at the time. I had visited this school, and its so exciting to see these youngsters get all that they need within the schools itself. Because many of these parents are working two jobs, and to have it all there, to have the parents come in, and be a part of it is, very, very exciting. So i must admit, it was disappointing for me to see this program eliminated. Now, well cut it back, but it is still disappointing, because i know of your interest in educating all the kids. The budget request eliminates the english language acquisition Grant Program, which is vital for combatting inequality by improving outcomes for english language learners. Working families count on afterSchool Programs so that they can go to work knowing their child is safe and learning, but your budget request eliminates this funding, too. More than half of americans live in a child care desert. And that includes the one in five College Students who are parents. On campus child care programs like the virginia marks Children Center at Westchester Community college, helps student parents successfully pursue degrees. But you would cut funding for the child care access means parents and schools, the campus program, by nearly 72 . Im trying not to elaborate and get into the point, but 72 is a lot of parents and children who wont be able to access this opportunity. It would be absurd to champion this budget request for its socalled fiscal responsibility. More than 2 billion in Student Financial aid and grants to institutions would be cut. And instead, squandered on a border wall. By eliminating programs and reducing funds, this budget request would exacerbate the opportunity gap, as students deserve better, and i sincerely hope your response to our questions would address these concerns. And i thank you again for appearing before us. Thank you, madam secretary. We will now turn to the testimony, and your testimony, for the record, i would ask that you take five minutes to summarize so that we can get to everyones questions, and after that, we will proceed through fiveminute rounds for question, and wreck the members in order of seniority and appearance at the time of the gavel. So madam secretary, please begin. Thank you. Chair woman delauro, Ranking Member cole and members of the submit, thank for the opportunity to testify on the president s fiscal year 2021 budget. While were discussing a budget, its important to remember that federal Government Spending does not determine everything thats important to us. Nor does, nor is it the only solution when we encounter challenges and opportunities. Instead, we the people overcome challenges and seize opportunities. Thats why this departments budget is focused on returning power to the people. To those closest to students. And to students themselves. Our budget begins by recognizing that education is a local issue. Congress recognized that truth when it created the u. S. Department of education 40 years ago. It promised the move would, and i quote, not increase the authority of the federal government over education, nor diminish the responsibility for education, which is reserved to the states. End quote. This Administration Proposes congress align the budget with that 40yearold promise. Our budget would take a big step tort rightsizing the federal role in education, so that families, teachers, and state and local leaders are free to do whats right for students. The budget would expand education freedom for students so they can prepare for successful careers. And it would refocus our approach to Higher Education so that students are at the center of everything we do. First, lets consider recent history. Over 40 years, federal taxpayers have spent more than 1 trillion trying to fix k12 education. Each year, congress grew the budget from nearly 7 billion in 1980 to more than 41 billion in 2020 for k12 education alone. But what have we bought with all that spending . Just open up the latest nations report card, to see the sad results. No real improvement in student achievement in decades. So instead of holding fast to what we know does not work, let me suggest we find the courage to do something bold, and begin a new era of student growth and achievement. The average Student Succeeds act gives us good insights into where we should go. It became law because many of you on both side was aisle realized federal overreach in education had failed. So you move to restore the proper roles in education. A bipartisan k12 law affords states and communities more flexibility to address local challenges. This Administration Proposes congress compliment its work on esa, and make the budget match the law. States must work with local communities and families to develop comprehensive plans that best meet the needs of their students. And so states should be able to target their federal taxpayer dollars accordingly. To that end, we propose putting an end to education earmarks by consolidating nearly all federal k12 programs into one single block grant. Overall, americans spend about 860 billion on k12 education every year. Last year, congress appropriated about 24 billion of that through the programs in our proposed block grant, or roughly 2. 5 of total education spending. And yet, each year, teachers and School Leaders spend more than two million hours complying with federal reporting and Record Keeping requirements for that small slice of the pie. Two million hours. More than 83,000 days. More than 225 years. Thats time that could have been focused on helping students learn and grow. Teacher, administrators, and state leaders need to be free to focus on people, not paperwork. Results, not regulations. Different states will invest their share of the block grant differently, and thats okay. In fact, thats what we hope they do. They can better figure out what their students need, because they know their students. Every student is unique and each one of them learns givenly. Every child needs the freedom to learn in places and ways that work for them. Thats why the president s 2021 budget also renews its call for an historic investment in americas students. Education freedom scholarships. Our proposal is a dollar for dollar federal income tax credit for voluntary contributions to statebased, nonprofit organizations, that provide scholarships directly to students. Id like to picture kids with backpacks representing funding for their education following them wherever they go to learn. The budget also requests a 100 million increase in supporting children with disabilities, amounting to a total of 14 billion for idea programs. Theres also a are qfor a dramatic expansion of career and Technical Education programs. At an overall increase of nearly 900 million, its the largest investment in ct ever. It includes a total of 2 billion for perk and state grants which is an increase of nearly 800 million. Additionally, were requesting 150 million an increase of more than 135 million, to fund stem activities, led by history bcus and other Minority Serving Institutions located in opportunity zones. This administration wants every student in america to have more education options that focus on preparing them for successful careers. That goes hand in hand with our groundbreaking initiatives at federal student aid. Consider that fsa is essentially a 1. 5 trillion bank that has dramatically outgrown its government structure. We propose evaluating a new government structure and whether fsa should be a standalone entity. In the meantime, were continuing to build on our important reforms that establish one platform, one operating system, one web site. And importantly, on providing customers, students and their families, with a seamless student loan experience. In the end, our budget is about one thing. Putting students and their needs above all else. Its a budget that recognizes that no student and no state, no teacher and no town, are the same. States need to be free to address the particular problems, and possibilities of their people. And students of all ages need the freedom to find their fit. This budget proposes that Congress Give it to them. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Im happy to respond to your questions. Thank you very much, madam secretary. And im sorry if im amiss to recognizing eric keen the Budget Services director at the department of ed. So welcome to you. Madam secretary, to justify your reports you repeatedly claim additional funding for our Public Schools does not improve Student Outcomes. I no basis of reality. A research on spending, Student Outcomes by the northwestern economist found statistically significant positive results. For students in 12 out of 13 studies. Which is why, dr. Jackson concludes, by and large, the question of whether Money Matters is essentially settled. I dont understand madam secretary why do you continue to claim that Additional Resources for Public Schools do not improve Student Outcomes, when the empirical evidence tells us the exact opposite . Im just going to, i admittedly have not read through all of them, i have read through some of them, but this is, by education experts. People who understand the science of learning, and development, and how it improves. The data is overwhelming. So i ask you again, how can you continue to make these claims that Student Outcome does not improve when empirical evidence tells us the opposite . Chair woman, let me just refer back to the nate results, but before i do that, i just, theres a couple of things that you said in your opening comments that i need to comment to. First of all, im not out to privatize anything about education. Im out to make sure every students education is personalized. Individualized for them. That they find the right fit to unlock their potential. So lets talk about personalization, not about privatization. Thats not the issue. Thats not the goal. And we have spent over a trillion at the federal level to close the achievement gap in the last 40 years. That achievement gap has not closed one little bit. In fact, for many poor students, its only grown wider. You look at the state by state results, you look at the overall results, and they are dismal. Two out of three aikt grade eighth graders cannot read or do math at their grade level. I want to know where their schools are, what the environmental circumstances are, what kind of resources are going into those schools to the training of teachers, and improving the lives of the families who live there, and making sure that the youngsters have that experience. And the trained people that they need. And if you deny the resources to the most, to the schools that need the help most, yes, will fail. Im going to tell you actually if you free up the resources for people at the most local level, you see results. You can see it in florida, you can see it in mississippi, where they focus solely on improving reading outcomes. The district of columbia, where the data from this administration has demonstrated that thats not the case. And weve got scores higher in 2019, for most racial ethnic groups in both subjects, and at both grades compared to the early 1990s. This is data, the scores in math and reading are significantly higher than they were 40 years ago. For all racial and ethnic groups. So it is a fundamental principle. And the underlying philosophy. On which you move forward. On cutting all of these programs. And move to a 5 billion for vouchers, flies in the face of the progress thats made. Lets us Work Together to understand the statistics, realize that what, where we are, know that there is a different, and weve got somewhere to go on an achievement gap, but lets not denigrate a Public School system that shows 90 of our kids, and that is making gains. Let us continue to make those gains. And quite frankly, the cuts that you have proposed is double speak. It is double speak. So im just going back to your words that are, the nate study, youve got, and as i said, youve got more studies, released in 2019, reached the same conclusion, including a study showing how extra money protects the schools, had a particularly strong impact on low income and hispanic students. Im going to share the studies with yourself and with your staff, and with the members of this subcommittee, to take a look, to see if in fact, the data belies the direction that you are taking Public Education in this country. And my time has run out. Let me yield to my colleague. Thank you very much, madam chairman. As i said in my comments, madam secretary, im really excited about your pell grant proposal. And your additional investment in career and Technical Education. So ive got a couple of questions along those lines. You actually say that we would give these grants, to provide potential in demand fields so i guess im sort of interested to know how would you define in demand, what would actually be recovered, how would that work, would all of the programs that have, lets say a duly recognized state and career technical, would that be covered or do you have some sort of selectivity in mind . Our proposal really seeks to work with congress to determine the definition around those programs and the extent to which they would be a part of a shortterm pell program. I know it varies by region. And i think it would behoove all of us to work closely with regions and states, and to look at what those opportunities are. But we would look forward to working with congress to determine that, and to really address these opportunities for students. I actually find certainly in my state honestly quite often young people, and not so young, but they obviously can be any age coming in for additional technical training, they look literally, end up with a job faster, usually than somebody coming out of a fouryear education, and it is quite often a very highpaying job. Believe me, when you need a plumber, you really need a plumber. You know, you cant wait around. And thats right. So i again, i applaud that. We get a lot of questions about this, because a lot of the students who go to these facilities are comparatively low income and frankly just the cost of college, or the idea of assuming the debt thats often associated with that to them doesnt make sense this. Really does. So im glad you put it on the table. I want to go to an area where frankly we dont agree and thats on the trio and geara proposals that you have. Ive got a lot of trio students in my state. Weve historically been one of those states that has really benefitted from that. Weve really benefitted from geara. And frankly, ive never met a single student or instructor in these programs that didnt think they were worthwhile. I look at trio for instance, and since its inception, its produced over five million College Graduates and i think a lot of those young people quite honestly would not have had the opportunity or the support structure to succeed in College Without trio, or the preparation thats necessary, it is one of the great things about gear up. A lot of the families where nobody has gone to college before, really are not in a very good position sometimes to counsel their own kids and prepare them. And you want to, you dont want to send them to college and not have them successful. I want them to get that degree and not walk out thereof with a few hours and thousands of dollars worth of debt. So these programs to me seem to do that. And i used to have this problem quite frankly with the last administration, which i thought underinvested in these program, even though historically, we were always doing race to the top, or some, you know, new deal, when we had a couple of programs here i think that have demonstrated their utility over time, again and again. So explain to me again the advantages you would see in the consolidation and the movement of formula grants as opposed to competitive grants in this area. Well, thank you, and i totally agree that these programs are beneficial and effective for many students, and our proposal does seek to essentially move gear up into the trio program, and block grant it to the states. The reality is that most of the awardees for the trio program are consistent year after year after year, and its very difficult for any new program to break into it. We think that by allowing putting more money in trio. And that certainly is a prerogative, but i think coupled with our proposal to block grant the elementary and secondary Education Funding, of the 29 different programs, and again, provide a lot more flexibility at the state and local level, the answer for one district might look quite different than an answer for the other district. A fair point. And i think coupled, it could be a really powerful ive only got about 30 seconds left. So let me just quickly ask one other area, because i know youve historically been a great champion of Charter Schools, and i do worry, not everybody shares that point of view, and you know, i think if you block grant these to states, a lot of the money that has been set aside specifically for charters honestly, that could be diverted into the public system, particularly, even though, through the normal k12 system, particularly when the overall amount of money is coming down, and lets concentrate within the k12 system, these are more experimental or these are a little bit more outside the quoteunquote mainstream. So ive gone over my time. Just briefly, do you have that concern . Well, let me be very clear. I totally support Charter Schools. And i think we need not fewer of them, we need many more of them. There are 100, im sorry, a million families on the wait list for Charter Schools across the country. And i actually view our consolidation and block grant proposal as one that is additive and positive for charters. Ive talked with a number of governors about the block grant concept, and theyre very excited about it. In states where they embrace this, theres going to be dramatic expansion. And for im over my time, so i want to, i dont want the chair woman to have to interrupt me, ill interrupt myself but thank you and i would like to continue this discussion and i appreciate it. Thank you, madam chair, for the indulgence. Congresswoman . Thank you, madam secretary. Let me go right to this. There is still, this is increasing, and in terms of systemic injustices to the black and latino student, first of all, you eliminated the 2014 School Discipline guidance, to help ensure that students of color are not subject to harsher discipline practice than their white peers. Let me ask you about your office for civil rights proposal now, this is a double whammy, to combine the kt counsel of preschool children who receive out of School Suspension with those who receive more than one out of School Suspension, and your proposal to eliminate preschool enrollment data by race and ethnicity. Now, without this distinction, its going to be very difficult to understand whether, and to what extent this trend persists. The ability to track this data is critical because while black students, now you got to hear this, and understand this, and why this is so important, black students make up 20 of preschool children. Now these are babies, right . They represent 50 of suspended, again, babies, preschoolers, dont forget also that the Education Department chairs own data, in 2013, and 2014, found that black preschoolers again, babies, are three times more likely to receive one or more out of School Suspensions than their white counterparts. So ive requested, and the last two years, that this subcommittee received language, detailing School Discipline in all preschool and k12 classrooms and to also include it in your 2020 budget justification. Here you are again, without having submitted this data. We went through this last year. Although your budget request says that you will brief us on your plan with the horrendous plan to significantly alter this Data Collection. So why do you plan to change the Data Collection so that it really, and thats what it is going to do it, is going to mask the trends for out of School Suspensions, of preschooler, and we should have solved this, and we should have to ask you once again, for this data. So thats my first question. What in the world is going on. And taking so long for us to get this report. That we required to you submit for the last few years. And also, do you believe that black students are punished and suspended at greater rates than their white peers . Yes or no . Do you believe that . The data shows this. And these are children. These are babies. Maam, i agree, and love children as you do, and want to ensure that all children have the opportunity to get a great education. We have been focused on answering and responding to all of your requests. But you havent done that. We will check on that specifically. You said that last year, madam secretary. And what i know and what i am committed to is ensuring that all kids have an opportunity to i understand that. Madam secretary, you tell us that every year, but what about black and latino kids. Due even submit to us thats exactly my point. Madam secretary, youre trying to mask this by saying youre not going to collect the data by race, and how in the world are you going to be able to say you care about black and latino kids. The other report we asked you, we asked you detailed recommendations with regard how to address adverse impacts of resegregation including designating title six school monitors to ensure that every student has the opportunity for an equal education. Again, you said you were aware of this report, you get it back to us as soon as possible, and we still dont have this report. Weve tried and tried, over and over again, madam secretary, to get these reports from your office. Theyre written into the bills. Theyre required. And youre just thumbing your finger at us. That is not the case. Well, it is the case. We are responsive. We have continued to be responsive. Where . We have the requests from congress and we are madam secretary on black and latino kids, these babies, these preschoolers, you have not been responsive. These are children who dont even get a head start. Because theyre kicked out of school. Before they even are in kindergarten. Dont you think thats important . I think each one of them is important. And i care about each one of their futures. Thats why im suggesting we do things very differently than what weve been doing. This committee has asked you for this data, and instead of providing the cate and tdata an reports youre trying to mask it saying youre not going to use race and ethnicity to present the facts so how can you sit there and say that . We ask you over and over and over again every year. I am committed to each of those children, as you are. But youre not showing that. Could you submit wait a minute. Let me ask you. The report does not, a report does not solve a childs program. A report is not a childs future. Pla dam secretary, we are asking for the report. We need the data to understand this. I would think you would want the data to understand it also. Thats all were asking for. This is basic. So why wouldnt we get the information that this committee is asking you for two years about preschoolers being disproportionately suspended from preschool. These babies. These black babies. Lets talk about the lack of achievement. When are we going to get the report. Lets talk about the lack of achievement and the lack of opportunity so we cannot ask you for these reports madam secretary. I want to know when were going to get, madam secretary, are you saying forget the reports, just tells that you. No, maam, im not. When do we get it . I will check on when that report will be available. Both reports. School resegregation, and the suspension, expulsion of black and latino kids. You told thus last year. A year has gone by. And its outrageous. Thank you very much, thank you, madam secretary. Whats outrageous is 25 of our children of our eighth graders cant read a grade level passage. Thats what is outrageous. And youre right, money doesnt solve this problem. You know, i had the privilege of being invited to the 15th anniversary of the osb program at the department of education, where we met the parents. All they wanted was a better life, a Better School for their children. Madam secretary, you know that 90 of those students who took advantage of that program are black students. The vast majority of rest are latino students. So to somehow suggest that you as an advocate for programs like that dont care about black and latino students just doesnt jive with the data. Lets talk about the data. Significant progress on nate. Really . U. S. News and world report headline about the last scores say across the board, scores drop in math and reading for u. S. Students. It dropped. It didnt go up. There is no significant improvement. And with regards to the disparity, its pretty clear the disparity has existed between the highest and lowest performers for 30 years consistently. Now, theres some people who would suggest that repeating the same thing youre doing that doesnt work is insanity. Its exactly what were doing in the united states. So im going to congratulate you on the suggestion, for the education freedom scholarships. Now, i know its a bold idea to somehow believe you should put parents in charge of their childrens education, or maybe making the choice where to send their children to school, because of course, god knows we know better. But somehow, some bureaucrat somewhere knows better. Some academic sitting in some ivory tower knows better, than the mother, some of those mothers, i saw at that department of education celebration, who really knew what was better if are their children and it was not to be sent to the same poorly performing Public Schools because there was no competition. Now, let me tell you whats interesting from the nape scores. There was one jurisdiction in the country where actually the students performed better. On three out of four of the measures. Washington, d. C. Because the 13 years before that test was taken, washington, d. C. Instituted competition for a failing Public School system. And the academicser, no, oh, no, were going to compare the score was people of the voucher schools to the people who didnt go to voucher schools. No different. Competition works and the education freedom scholarships will induce competition. Let me ask you, does a dollar for those scholarships come from the department of education budget . I think i saw it was the department of treasury budget, wasnt it, where those dollars the education freedom scholarship, part of the department of treasury budget. So this wouldnt really take a dollar. No. From our Public Schools. It would be voluntary contributions. Voluntary. So let me see. So what could the possible opposition to voluntary contributions to a program, and i think i have the facts right, about three quarters of parents favor that idea, the idea of actually giving choice. In fact, the statistics i see, 68 of africanamerican parents, 82 of latino parents, specifically about the efs program, 83 of africanamerican parents, 83 of latino parents, actually want that choice. Thats right. Why in the world would we deny it . Can you come up with any reason, other than teaching in opposition, can you come up with any other reason why we we dont deny that . I see no reason for denying the kids the opportunity. And madam chairman, thank you for standing up, and standing up, even the 30 years before i came to congress, for the idea that every child in america, and every parent in america deserves a choice where to get sent to school and if they are unfortunate enough to live in a Geographic Area or School District where their school is just plain lousy, that they should have the opportunity to go to a Charter School, and it can be a public Charter School, it can be nonpublic Charter School, or get a voucher, especially at one of the, these are voluntary contributions, to get a voucher, to help those children go to a Better School. I just dont understand the argument against that. And i never will understand the argument against it. Its about time we get raw politics out of education. Because it is standing in the way. Because you know, if you look at the statistics, yes, there was improvement in the nate, we went from 31st to 30th in the world in the last nate. 31st to 30th in the world. And it wasnt math or reading, i guess it was science, that is pathetic. In the 21st century, we cant afford to be anything but first in the world. And i want to congratulate you on what you do to see to it that that could happen. I yield back. Thank you, congressman. Congressman pocan. Thank you very much, madam chair. Thank you madam secretary. Easiest thing to five letter last name, gets mispronounced, is it devos or devos. It is devos but ive heard it pronounced many different ways. Thank you for not having scutes this year to special education and not cutting Special Olympics, the fourth time is the charm and i want to say thank you and happy Public Schools week. Im sure youre around the country advocating for Public Schools this week. Thank you. We had a strong bipartisan resolution with 90 people, including our Ranking Member on that, and very proud of the Public Schools we have in this country. I do want to pick up on where our Ranking Members started talking about Charter Schools though, because i think this is where we dont have as good information. First of all, on academic performance, we know on Charter Schools about, one out of six does better than Public Schools, about half are about the same, but two out of six perform worse than Public Schools. On academic performance. But i think theres something even worse. You mentioned what we bought with the spending. When you look at Charter Schools, there was a report last year that said a thousand Charter School Program Grants were given out by the department of education, were given to schools, that never opened or later closed because of mismanagement, poor performance or fraud, and then another report just last december said it is actually worse than that, it was 2100, 2127 schools out of 5286 that never actually ever opened or failed that is 45 failure rate on Charter Schools. Ive looked, thats an f grade when you are below 60 and yet youre advocating do to do more than fs rather than more as like the Public Schools or bs in some cases and maybe a few cs but fs dont seem to be the grade we want to advocate for. Also, there was a school, an idea charter chain that had been awarded about 200 million in federal funds, over the years, they got a 67 million grant, and another, 116 million, and yet, this is some of what theyve spent their money on. They had 400,000 going to a luxury box in tickets for spurs tickets. I dont think you would see Public Schools getting a luxury box. They purchased a property from one of their Board Members for 1. 7 million. I dont think a School Board Member would sell their property to a Public School. And another board member got the commission on that sale, on over a millions of dollars of property, and only after a lot of scrutiny did the ceo back off of a plan to lease a private jet for 2 million a year, over six years. So i guess my question is, on this terrible failure rate we have with Charter Schools that youre still advocating for, just a yes or no, do you think Charter Schools who receive federal funding should be allowed to use those funds to purchase private jets . Well, congressman, im not yes or no. Its not a yes or no question. Actual tally. Is it it is really. It is the definition of a yes or no question. Im going to say about the things that you said about Charter Schools. Can you answer my question, please, madam secretary. I have a few, about what you said about Charter Schools reclaiming my time, madam secretary. Reclaiming my time its a yes or no question. The report that you referenced has been totally debunked as probl debunked propaganda. Give me the curtsy of answering my questions. I gave you the curtsy of saying your name correct and i request you a question with a yes or no question, it is that simple. If the secretary of education cant answer a yes or no question i dont know how you can be the secretary. Do you think federal funding should go to a school that funds a private jet. That is a hypothetical question. There is no funding going to schools do you think there should be money Charter Schools are Public Schools. Reclaiming my time. Charter schools are doing a great job, for those who are choosing them. Madam secretary. And there are millions on the list to go to Charter Schools. Talking over someone is not an answer and yes or no is when it is asked in a yes or no format. We know that on the same group, such incomplete information over three years, didnt report Accurate Information or no information on performance data. Would you think, would you give your staff a paycheck if they didnt perform 84 of their tasks . Yes or no . Of course not. Thank you. Thank you for answering yes or no. Everything youre citing is debunked ridiculous. So i dont except the premise of your question. Look, its actually not. Let me ask you this, do you think it is oz when people say, your family rents a charter, correct, thats a yes or no. No. Your husband doesnt have a Charter Program . He founded a charter he founded. So when people think you might have a conflict of interest because of that. Absolutely not. Ill let you, yes or no, you can respond however. I will respond in that my husband founded a Charter School which is Meeting Needs of students all over west michigan. And he is on the board but he does not run the school. It is an organized, a as notforprofit Charter School. And it is a Public School serving all comers. Madam secretary i think the fact that you couldnt answer yes or no and you look at the rating of Charter Schools this is why people have a worry that there could be a conflict or Something Else. Youre wrong about that. If theyre not performing academically. Yes but 40 are closing down that youre giving grants to. That is not true. That is a totally debunked report. That was nothing but propaganda by an individual who has an in for Charter Schools. What percent of Charter Schools are failing . You have an idea . A number . I dont have a state youre the secretary of education and you dont have this . You know this report is wrong but you dont these schools are chartered by states. They are not chartered by the federal government. You know that number is not right but you dont have a correct number. Is that what youre telling me . What i know is parents and families are choosing to send their children to Charter Schools. A yes or no. So you dont know the answer . The parents and childrens are going to Charter Schools by choice. I think i have the answer. I think i have the answer. And there are more on the Charter School wait list. I think i have the answer. Thank you, madam chair. I do want to say that im very troubled by the tone of this hearing. And feel like our secretarys being badgered. And i would ask the chair to consider that as we move forward because i feel its very unfortunate that weve come here to help meet the needs of our children, the nations children, and i think the tone of this hearing is very disappointing in that regard. And i also want to say as a person whos familiar with the secretarys record, i dont know of a Single Person who has been more engaged in policies to help minority students across the country than this secretary from all of her work throughout her career. So, im very disappointed right now, but i do want to talk about some of the priorities. And also as someone whos been a former school administrator, a Charter School administrator, and as someone who chaired a state education budget, i will say that the focus you have on helping people closest to the student and who care most for the student, making decisions to me is the right direction. So, i want to compliment you on that. I know the there are a lot of issues we could discuss, but i just want to say that at the outset. Theres a few specific things i wanted to ask you to talk about. First the Second Chance pell. I think one of the high points of Congress Working with the administration has been to look at Prison Reform and to help those who have been in prison come back into the community and contribute. And i wondered if you could talk a little bit about your plans going forward. I know theres interest in Community Colleges in my area in participating in this. But if you could talk briefly about the Second Chance pell program. Thank you congressman. I think there is an area where there is actually broad spread support and a lot of great evidence. Ive had opportunity to visit three different prisons and see students that have i visited Tulsa Community college in prison in oklahoma last summer and was just thrilled to see all of these mostly young men graduating with associates degrees, with Certificate Program recognition, some of them completing their high school requirements. But it was a thrill to be there. And i think theres so much promise with making a Second Chance pell program a permanent one that is going to provide hope and opportunity for returning incarcerated individuals and give them a really hopeful future. Wonderful, thank you. I also wanted to talk to you you mentioned preparing students for professional careers. And i know the proposals you have are aimed at inviting the private sector to participate more. I understand theres 190 institutions that would be invited to participate in a pilot program. I know one of my areas, midmichigan college, is interested on participating in that. Could you comment on that . We think theres a real opportunity to help students get much more relevant Work Experience while theyre attending college and in a federal work study program, instead of working in the college cafeteria, if they are doing student teaching perhaps or clinicals in a Health Profession or perhaps its in a business that has a relevance with the program theyre taking in their college, we think extending this opportunity and helping students get really relevant, almost apprenticeshiplike experience while theyre in school studying is an important step in the direction of helping students succeed. Thank you. Also, i think as parents everyones concerned about the higher cost of college education. When you see the debt that students are taking out and then just the burden that places on them in the future, can you comment about just what the administration can do to help alleviate the high cost of education but also the Student Loan Debt . Well, this is a huge issue and im not sure ive got enough time to answer it fully. But ill start with a couple of things. We have taken important streps administratively to add a lot of light to what students can access through the college scorecard. And now students can go and go to look up an institution and then go down to the field of study or program, find out what its going to cost to attend that program and complete, and then importantly what their first year earning potential is after that. They can compare between schools. They can compare programs within schools. And this is going to, i think, help them be more discerning prospectively. I also think its going to help schools look more critically at what theyre offering and what the realities are of what theyre offering. Perhaps its going make some changes prompt some changes at highered institutions. And this is one way, bringing light to what lhas been a very murky kind of a reality. So, thats one way we have taken a step. Another way weve put the fafsa form on the my student aid mobile app. Were continuing to add more and more information for students to model what their debt and what their Student Loan Debt would mean and how they could pay off and have realtime information for that right on their app. And were going to be continuing to add more and more to give them more tools for financial literacy. Thank you. And thank you madam chair. Let me just say i beg the indulgence of this subcommittee because id like to address, congressman moolenaar, your comments if i can. I have a great deal of e respect for you and your work on this subcommittee. I think what you are hearing is a level of frustration about very, very important issues. And the two issues that have been addressed in a strong way. When we cannot get reports we are an appropriations committee. We put in a bill that required the department of education to get us reports on the data with regard to babies being expelled from preschool. We dont have that report, nor was there an answer as to when we would get that report. Thats a level of frustration. You would experience that as well. Further, with regard to Charter Schools, may i add that we held a hearing last year on Charter Schools. The oig raised issues that we need to examine including findings that states mismanaged Charter School closures and that the department failed to provide adequate guidance or oversight on the issue. We are the appropriations committee. We have appropriated serious money, more than 400 million last year alone. We need to conduct oversight. And so theres a level of frustration. And i might add, when you can say about Charter Schools that gods in his heaven, alls right with the world, and you cannot do a serious evaluation of which ones work and which ones dont work, that means that the department is not doing the evaluation that we need to hear about. So, wherein lies the frustration congressman moolenaar . Sure, please. I completely respect that. What i heard the secretary say is that she will find out the information on the report and get back to the committee. And i think any secretary deserves that courtesy. And on this Charter School, i just would ask the chair to consider that Charter Schools, many have different missions. Some Charter Schools have the mu mission of educating adjudicated youth. So, the idea that were going to start comparing, you know, High Standard education with educating adjudicated youth and somehow evaluate them the same, thats a very different mission. So, i think this committee would be wellserved to kind of look at the unique missions of Charter Schools and where there are inappropriate i would also say to you that not our information but the office of the Inspector General at a public hearing that we had in this room last year claimed that there were serious difficulties. We have to look at that. We have to ask the department about that. So, again, theres may i, maam . Yes, sure. Because were obviously a little off topic here. Thank you for the indulgence. I have to speak up in defense of my member. I think mr. Moolenaar was right with what he said. I dont have a problem with that. I agree that we asked for a report, we ought to get it. Nothing wrong with that. We have tough questions about Charter Schools, nothing wrong with that. But anybody that thinks the tone was appropriate toward the secretary, it was not. And that, you know, weve had a lot of people in four years that came before this when i was chairman of this committee, that i didnt agree with. I dont think i ever heard anyone addressed the way the secretary was addressed. That i think is a legitimate point. And thats where theres concern that is a result of the frustration people are feeling here. And quite frankly to my friend, in have been members of your side of the aisle who have addressed folks who have come before this committee with a very big lack of respect. That doesnt say its right. But what we want to do is get through the frustration. We need to get answers. We are an appropriations committee. This is a serious amount of money that we are looking at. And there are deep concerns as to the direction of Public Education in this country. And, you know all ill say is i agree. I respect the frustrations, theyre real. Thats part of legislating. But its a little bit different in terms of how we treat our witnesses. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. It applies to both sides of the aisle, as you know. It does on ocaution. Thank you, madam chair. And thank you madam secretary for being here. I promised to apply a combination of midwest nice and a little bit of my former Investigative Journalism background. But anyway, interesting conversation. Thank you again for being here. So, we are in the middle of a Public Health crisis, not just the coronavirus but youth vaping. And my folks in education back home asked that i call it ecigarettes because they think vaping makes it sound nicer than it is, so i will say ecigarettes. But the numbers we have for the centers for Disease Control and prevention show that back in 2011, we have 1. 5 of our High Schoolers were doing ecigarettes. Now just last year, 2019, were at 27. 5 . So, about a third of our high School Students are now doing this. Just alarming. Thats why i call it an epidemic. At junior high and middle school, we are now at about 10. 5 of our middle schoolers. So, i just couldnt believe these numbers when i learned these. We did a series of round Table Discussions in my Congressional District in downstate illinois. And the one that really just alarmed me was that we had a School Resource officer said that there was third graders that were doing this, third graders. And, you know, this is easy to hide. They can put it in watches. They can put it in clothing. They can do it on these fake jump drives. So, theyre doing this. And thats why we wrote a peace of legislation out of my office called the resources to prevent youth vaping. It is part of a bill that we package of bills that well be voting on on the floor tomorrow. So, what i wanted to ask you i promise im bringing this totally into your department. Wondering if the department of education is coordinating with the centers for Disease Control and prevention to make sure that we have information that we can get out to our parents, make sure that we have resources that the teachers know about, that the School Nurses know about, and just wondering if theres any kind of coordination going on with your department and the centers for Disease Control and prevention. Thanks congresswoman for that question. I know that there have been participations in task forces. I would be happy to check on the extent to which those are happening and get back with you on that. K o. Yeah, if you could work with your office and make sure that we are aware of this, i think its really just a commitment on your part. We were just with secretary azar yesterday. But i think working together will just be absolutely critical to help address this. Again, this is a Public Health epidemic that is impacting our students, our children. So, i think that would be great. Switching gears. The other issue like lois frankel was saying im guessing youre going to ask something about illinois. I stay pretty focused on my district. Really, really huge Teacher Shortage. Were 14 counties, and we have seen the Teacher Shortage problem actual lynn crealy incr the last year, actually increase by about 20 that were seeing now. So, in 2019, there were 195 teacher vacancies in these 14 counties that i represent. Now there are 235. Thats just over the last year. So, this problem is getting worse, not better. So, i know in the president s budget, just a few things i want to point out for the record that are concerning to me. The Public Service loan forgiveness fund has awe proposed cut of 50 million, Teacher Quality Partnership Grant Program has proposed cut of 50 million. The funding of the supporting edge kay tif development grants, proposed cut of 80 million. State grants cut of 2. 1 billion. Can i just interject . Yes. A number of the programs that you cited are the ones that we have proposed to include in the block grant and would actually be very appropriate in your case and in your district. If theres a drastic shortage, the district could the districts could target more of those resources and have the flexibility to use more of them for programs that would address the Teacher Shortage issue, teacher retention, Teacher Development and in fact give them a lot more flexibility than the current scenario. So, talk me through then, if you could, in the 17 seconds we have left. Talk me through about how specifically so you get the block grant proposal. This is a mostly rural district i represent. 7,000 square miles, again, a lot of smaller schools. How will these block grants help specifically recruit, retain, and fill all of these vacancies in a very, very rural Congressional District . Well, what it would do is allow for the districts to prioritize what portions of these 29 different programs would be most effective and most important for the needs in their district to meet the needs of the most disadvantaged students. And it would allow them, again, to personalize and prioritize where those needs lie more specifically than the approach of having 29 different programs all with their own rules, all with their own regulations. These would be block granted to the state. And then 90 of them would go out directly to the districts under the title 1 accountability and formulation. So, all of the accountability p provisions there, but much more flexibility for every district to be able to target the resources where they need the most. Ill yield back the time that i dont have left. Thank you. Congresswoman ha raur herrerabeutler. I have a few questions so im going to try to bang on through them. The practice of seclusion and restraint weve talked about this before of specialed students i think is extremely detrimental to young students. And the stories ive heard, theyre horrific. What the administration doing to ensure all students are treated with respect . As we talked about we have an initiative going proactively through all 12 of our Regional Office for civil rights offices to bring light to this subject, to ensure that schools and districts and states know what their responsibilities are, what the law is, and to really make sure that they are doing right on behalf of kids. And so this was a Prospective Initiative taking conducting audits and also conducting a lot of proactive informational sessions to ensure that schools know what they should be doing or not doing. One of the and some of it, as i hear, is a lack of reporting. Is there any enforcement mechanism. So, youve been doing the education and a lot of them should know by know what the rules are around this. What type of Enforcement Mechanisms do you have, or do you not have any . What should we be doing to make sure that schools are adhering . Where there are infringements on students rights and requests for investigation, we are investigating. And i think thats where the important piece comes on the follow up. But we think and we hope that, again, proactively taking this initiative and bringing more light to this subject is going to bring about a lot of old results in terms of reporting and in terms of actual activity and action. Thank you. One of the things i hear a lot about from educators at home in southwest washington is lack of resources to address Mental Health needs. This is probably the top issue i hear about. Its actually more i hear about the mental and Emotional Health of the students more than i hear about math achievement, reading achievement. I mean, this is its ground zero these enl kay tors aduc coming in with a whole set of challenges that generations before them seem to have navigated differently. Who knows where they are now. But these kids, a lot of them are in a lot of distress. What is or can the department do to help . I mean, this is not in anybodys scope, right . This is not in our scope of practice. But this is the reality of where kids are at now. I would say first of all our proposal to block grant to the states and ultimately the local districts, all of these different programattic funds would allow each district to address this issue in the way that they prioritize. If this is indeed the most important issue for their most vulnerable students, that would allow them the flexibility to tap into more of those a higher percentage of those resources than otherwise through the formula or through the programmatic approach. So they would be able to maybe hire, like, an inschool Mental Health counselor, for example. If thats what they thought ive heard requests for that and sros and some of our funds are flexible and some just arent. Or if theyre using money for this they cant use it for this and thats the feedback. Thats why i think the block grant proposal is transformative in that way because it would allow for all of the uses of those programs. But for them to prioritize the dollars in a way thats going to really meet the needs of the most disadvantaged kids in their district. Ive got to believe there would be an administrative is there an administrative savings. I think the problem is we spent money back to d. C. And headquarters skims off the top and sends back a lesser amount. There are yes. I think ultimately there would be. And i think importantly that flexibility at the state and local level would really allow those closest to the students to target those resources in the ways that are going to be most meaningful for the kids that they seek to serve. Okay. With my last 20 seconds, im a big supporter of the running start programs, would like to see the Department Support them. In addition, i just wanted to say thank you for the increase and focus on career and Technical Education. We should not sell students down the river that you have to go to a fouryear liberal arts school and thats what success is. Because we all know if youve lived at all in life, that is not the only definition of success. I know a lot of people who are happy and fulfilled have good living wage jobs with full benefits and provide for their families in a career of Technical Education tract. Thank you for an emphasis on that. Well, the president and myself and this administration are committed to advancing that and supporting multiple pathways for adult success. Thank you. Yield back. Congresswoman clark. Thank you, madam chair. And thank you secretary devos for being with us today. I want to go back to a topic explored by my colleague congresswoman lee. Do you think that the disparity of discipline of preschoolers of color could indicate a racial bias . I suppose it certainly could. And again, i think the bigger issue here is that we make sure that every child has the opportunity to pursue an education that is going to unlock and unleash their personal and fullest potential. Okay. Isnt it, however, the official policy now of the department of education that the cause of this disparate rates of discipline that we see with students of color is explained by the fact that these children are just inherently predisposed to misbehave and disrupt the classroom more than white children . Isnt that your policy . No. No, its not. That is the conclusion of the research you cited in your School Safety report of 2019. Congress specifically asked you to strike all references to this report which interestingly appeared in the journal of criminal justice. Your official response within this budget is that you stand by this report and its conclusions, isnt that right . Congresswoman, do you have a question about the budget because were here yes, you did say were here to talk about the budget. In your fy2020 budget, you responded that quote, the department of education stands but this report that says children of color are just more inherently inclined to misbehave, and that explains the d d d disparate rates of discipline. I dont know where that would fall in our budget we will get you the right section because thats in your budget. In fact i dont see any other way to interpret this as your new policy because then you went on and eliminated the Data Collection that could help us solve the problem because you dont see a problem because you have adopted as the policy that this is just a racebased problem, that these in fact, congresswoman, the codc question collection the Data Collection questions are open for Public Comment now. They have not been concluded but this is what you proposed. If you do have input, we would be very happy to take it. We certainly we certainly would like you to go ahead, undo what you put your budget, strike this racist research, make sure its Crystal Clear that you do not buy into this theory that children of color are disciplined because of who they are and that they come to school with disruptive tendencies. That is what you put in your official report. In your budget, you say you stand by it. Lets move on. I want to give you a chance to correct the record because i think weve had some testy exchanges in the past. In 2018, you agreed that private and Religious Schools receiving federal funding would have to have nondiscrimination policies. But i think i browbeat you into that answer. Is there any requirement that private and Religious Schools must have nondiscrimination policies under your efs program . The Education Freedom Scholarship Program first of all is a tex credit. Is there any nondiscrimination. I did not see it in your Budget Proposal . The reality is every student that would take advantage of an education freedom scholarship would be protected. Their civil rights are protected. And that is true of students no matter where they are in whatever school but i am correct. You do not have that nondiscrimination requirement in your Budget Proposal. The Budget Proposal is part of treasures budget. Okay. And its only but you agree that it would, but its not there. In september, you visited a Religious School in harrisburg that is a private religious institution. Its certainly allowed to do what they do. They have policies that transgendered children can be expelled or denied admission based on that status. They also have different tuition rates depending on the religion of the children. My question to you is if pennsylvania adopted your Scholarship Program, your voucher program, would this school be eligible for federal funding with these policies in place . Maam, i need to correct you on the nature of the education freedom scholarship proposal. It is a federal tax credit that would be the recipient of voluntary federal taxes are you saying can i finish . Can i finish . We are out of time so i want to be clear i want to make sure you have a full understanding of what the proposal is. I understand federal tax credits are federal funding. No, they are not because they are voluntary contributions in advance of paying your taxes to the federal government. That would be and direct contributions to 501 c 3, charitable organizations choose we are out of time and i am going to leave you with this. You said in your testimony you wanted to expand educational freedom for students. I certainly hope that making these inherently discriminatory policies part of the department of education is not what you meant by that statement. We dont discriminate against anyone at any time. Congresswoman frankel. Im going to follow up. Thank you for being here. Appreciate it. I want to follow up on these voucher questions. So, i was trying to just calculate in my head because for me i think this is a program for wealthy people to get Free Private School because my understanding of a tax credit is you actually if you owe 10,000 in taxes and you under your scenario and lets say you pay 10,000 for a private school, then you owe no taxes . Can i just interject because that is absolutely a misunderstanding. Okay. Well just explain so we know. The proposal is voluntary contributions from individuals or businesses to 501c3 scholarship granting organizations that would then give scholarships to the families that the state decides to participate. And in most states where there are education Freedom School Choice Programs, they are geared and targeted to primarily lowincome families, many times also students with disabilities. And they are programs for students who are most vulnerable and disadvantaged. So, it would be individuals who choose to help other students and other families who would voluntarily make those contributions. It is not a program for people of wealth. Okay. People of wealth already have choices. Correct. People of wealth people of power already have choices. All of these policies are designated for and are targeted toward individuals and families who dont have that power. Okay, let me who are assigned to schools that arent working for them. I want to reclaim my time to follow up on congressman clarks question. Is there anything in your proposal that requires nondiscrimination . For example, can somebody keep a gay student out or can they discriminate on the basis of religion . School choice and education freedom is families and students voluntarily choose the place that works and fits them. I just want to understand this. So, they can choose to go to a school that only allows a certain religion or a certain gender or a certain race. Is that correct . Many schools have unique missions, different missions. The answer is yes. Thank you. I answered it for you. So, i have i have another question. I think coming out soon is a new rule on in reference to title ix on Sexual Harassment and violence in colleges. Is that rule going to be published soon . Reporte. I expect it will be soon, yes. So, i guess you know theres a lot of concern from folks about what this is going to mean because all the statistics so forth show that theres still a lot of Sexual Violence on campuses. And theres a lot of concern that your new rule zbis going t actually discourage victims from coming forward. Theres one particular point that i do want to ask you about and maybe you can just clarify it because i cannot i dont understand it. I read that rule, its so long. Under the proposed rule alleged harassment must occur within the schools own program or activity. So, my question is whether or not that would cover offcampus for example, frat houses . Would it pertain to online Sexual Harassment . Well, maam, because the rule is not yet finalized nor published, i cant comment on it. Its not appropriate to comment and it would not be appropriate to yeah, youre going to ask a first question and then youre going to ask another. Its not appropriate to comment. The rule is not yet final. Okay. So, as the rule as you understand proposed, as its proposed, is it going to cover, for example, a Sexual Assault at a frat house thats off campus or Online Harassment and bullying . Again, i cannot comment on specifics of the rule. Okay. My final question is, you know, we just read that japan is closing all its schools because of the coronavirus, so id like to know what plans you are making in regards to coronavirus . Good question. Ive convened a task force within the department and have asked my deputy secretary to head that task force to ensure we have our continuance policies and every plan in place for work in and through the department and we continue to work with the other agencies across government to ensure that we are prepared to respond and react and do as we should. Okay. Thank you. Im happy to hear that youre doing that. I just hope that you will keep us informed. I yield back. Congresswoman watsoncoleman. I can have congresswoman go first if thats what you want to do. Actually i do. I just need a moment. Okay. Thank you. I mentioned the full Service Community schools before. I think that they are so critical to bringing together health, social support, Family Community and engagement, Early Childhood Development Opportunities to really help students and their families thrive. Yet you propose eliminating dozens of k12 programs including community schools. We came together on a bipartisan basis in this congress to authorize the full Service Community School Program in 2015 because we know its value in the district. First of all, id like to know have you ever visited a fullService Community school . I visited many schools. Maybe one of them has been termed that. But congresswoman or chairwoman, if i can just say its inaccurate to say we have proposed eliminating these programs. We have proposed rolling them all up into a block grant. And i think your example of the school that youve cited and admire is exactly why we should consider the block grant proposal because it would allow schools and districts in your state to actually expand on those and target those resources in that direction if thats the right answer for the students in that district or that region. It would give a lot more flexibility to states and communities, not eliminating anything, but putting it in one big pool less money. Well, the request the request is at the level that it is. You are the appropriators. Youll designed what level to fund. I think the important thing is the policy here. And the proposal the policy proposal is to put all of those programs together in one block grant that would then allow the most local level, those closest to the students to target the resources to meet the needs of the kids that are most vulnerable in that School District in a way thats going to uniquely meet their needs. However, youre decreasing the amount of money in the pot so that youre making schools really compete against each other with these dollars. So, im hoping as we go through the budget, we will increase those dollars so we can sustain programs like this. And i think you would be interested in visiting some of those schools. Id be happy to give you a tour up to west chester. Thank you. Now, after School Program, your budget eliminating funding for after School Programs. No, it includes it in the block grant. Okay, youre decreasing the pot of money and putting it all into a block grant to allow for flexibility at the local School District level. But if youre cutting the budget again, youre the appropriator sos you decide at when level to fund it. But i think the important thing is the proposal to put all of them together in a block grant and allow for state and local governments to make decisions on which programs are most effective and what is going to work best to meet the needs of the most vulnerable students in that district. With less money, i get it. Let me just say this because i think its important and joyou probably know it. The amount of federal funds going to districts is usually about 10 . I dont know if its its actually less than 5 . Its probably less than 9 of the budget. Its less than 5. Youre saying putting these programs in a pot, decreasing the funds, everything is going to be fine. Youre saying we are the appropriators but if you are the secretary of education, your opinion is valued. And it disappoints me that you would take all these good programs, say put them in a pot, and then okay, decrease the dollars. But well move on because its almost completed. Did anyone ask this one . Okay. Im sorry. There are a couple of hearings going on. I understand. I think i was in the hold room in the other one. Yes. Now, another Favorite Program of mine, maybe this is in the pot too, but i think its really worth your seeing is the c campus program. More than one in five College Students is a parent. For those with a young child, accessing child care on campus for a growing number of College Students. Not every College Campus i have to get to the question are you aware sec. Devos i am aware, and i know what our Budget Proposal has, but i know the health and Human Services budget contains the increased funding around childcare. This is a priority of the around child care. This is certainly a priority of the administration. And we believe that those you programs through hhs would definitely be able to meet the needs of the program that youve cited as well. Well, im out of time. But let me just say if the 3 billion 3 million cut you te proposed were to take place, programs like this would disappear because the locals have the major responsibility. And our work is invaluable and our moneys invaluable in supporting their efforts. Oh, thats 30 did i say that . A 38 million cut. But thank you so much. Like i said, hhs has the bulk of the child care Budget Proposal funds, and thats ritis where thats where the administration has put the ack priority around child care. And let me just say if youre going back, i like the color to look at in transportation better than here. Just a little aside. Ake it i its a really pretty green on the wall. Well take it into consideration and put some pictures up. I was so busy focusing that i didnt notice. Et congresswomanary watsoncole. Thank you very much, madam s chairman. Devos. Nk you secretarycouple im going to ask you a couple of questions regarding the reductionon in investment in ou children under your proposed budget. Im really concerned about the. Achievement act as well as you are and i just maybe dont agree with our approach to it. The achievement gap that you talk about exists, i think, in part because schools lack es. Equitablele discipline guidancen addition to other resources. Anddi students of color are disproportionately targeted for discipline and kept out of school which prevents their learning. Further, theres a gross lack of accountability from your department in ensuring that the School Districts across the country live up to their mission. Lets talk first about the discipline piece. Rrested just this week, a 6yearold girl in florida wasasthou arresd taken from her school even though School Officials maintain they did not want the girl arrested. This is anor bla alltoocommon for our black children. According to the civil rights datast collection, black k12 students are nearly four times as white kids to receive out of School Suspensions. Black studentstsscho are nearly as likely to be expelled from School Without Education Services compared to their white counterparts. Liis data is disconcerting becauseke students who were suspended oror expelled for a disciplinary violation were almost three times as likely to be in contact with the juvenile Justice System in the next year. How do we reconcile this disparity with a percentage of h population black students represent, yet the percentage oo discipline . And given that you have resended the guidance, what are your plans to ensure schools are safe and welcoming environments that dont unfairly punish or discriminate children. The bottom line is what kind of resource d resources door thatestion, youe to schools to address this issue . Congresswoman, about thank y that question. You cited at the top your concern about the achievement gap, and i share that concern t and have shared that concern for the three plus decades that ive been working to change policy to free up children who havent ucn been able to achieve because ofe being stuck in a school that doesnt work for them. And i think you may have misstated when you said you dont agree you dont agree with our approach, meaning your approach . I too dont agree with your approach with continuing to do the same thing with more and more resources and expect a tak different result. Thats why our proposal has suggested taking all of dera virtually all of thele elementa and secondary Education Funding from theth federal level and blk granting it to the states. And then they, in formula to the local districts to, allow for the greatest amount of sc flexibility to directly address the needs of the students in ec that district and in that school. And i thinknk this is an to a important me, excuse me. Did that include alternatives to a public option . No, this would be the funding from the federal governmentt fo all of the elementary and secondary education programs. And it would be granted to the , states and formulaed out under thedi title one formulation. So, 90 plus percent of it going to local destructs. Do no but it would allow the local districts the kind of flexibility they dont have today. It would free up tons of tim ho literally 225 years of time in complying with and writing reporti reports and would allow them to target those resources directlyd to the kid who is need it most. I certainly agree teachers are required to do a lot of paperwork that just takes time t away from their teaching. I want to talk to you about w Something Else that concerns me in the budget which i think is a reflection of our values or your values or the president s values. The budget eliminates 41 programs and cuts a number of ot other tano,ke no, it doesnt. Ws it takes them all and puts them into the block grant and allows flexibility at the state and local level. So, i its not eliminating them. So, it is 29 of them. Of money so, it is putting more programs in one box with a limited amount of money asking them to already compete with one another for ed no. They wouldnt be competing. Theyre formulagranted out. 90 of the funds lets talk about the trio program. Talk to me about the trio program. Oh, all right. Im sorry. I cant hear you. Combinin sure. T we have proposed we have proposed combining the trio and gear up functions in the trio fo program. And, again,her 29 coupled with flexibility that the block grant for the other 29 programs would afford state and local districtf if the if theres more desire to be spent in the area of what the trio programs are doing, it would allow, again, more personalization for the student that are closest for those closest to the students in each School District. Nanimous all right. I seek unanimous consent to vitl enter some testimonyy from our students in thehe trio program which has been so vitally important which i think is not getting the appropriate here i attention thats it should. Thank you, madam secretary. I think in a bipartisan way, there is agreement on your comment, so well put the information into the record. T werehat going to do another r, but its two minutes, so that we can move quickly. I just might add if you have nob seen the video of this 6yearold child being put in handcuffs, pleading my co pleading ll not to have handcuffs. That is a visual of what my colleagues are talking about which is what is happening to particularly africanamerican kids and n kidsot be of color preschool, sobbing not to be put in handcuffs at 6 years old. Anyway, the i just a quick question. The crediting counsel for independent colleges and itatio schools,n acics lost its accreditation in 2016, demonstrated extraordinary weak compliance, standards below il,o requirements. T 2018, you reintated it. E coun its in financial peril. Uncovere lost its former accredited institutions, not recognized by the counsel for Higher Education, uncovered by usa today. An agenc what is the department ensuringe students are not being duped bya thes agency you reintated. Chairwoman, i was trubld ouy that piece as investigation ensued. So, you are willing to we have an investigation launched and were on it. Okay. On decision to reintate. I thank you for that. I tell you what im going to do. Thank you very much. Ecord you made your position very o clear and iwn appreciate that vy much and your records well f th phone ha wellknown. I do have concerns with what happens to the money soe wi fary second area,stud ient have enom sympathy with you inen terms oft this whole student loan problem and commend you, honestly, for tryingwa to think through an g different waysua to deal withra that. We in full disclosure, i was not o happy when we moved away from the Loan Guarantee approach. We sort of kept this out of your bailey wick and we have saddled you with an enormous problem. Im not sure we really have theh problem to do much here. Its really an authorizing function, i think, for the most part. Whatatm veryto com curiousba . T youre doing now to try and combat this. I know youre doing some technology things. I would like to know what the efforts are. Again, if you would like to expand longer term as to what yo you think the n ideal solution would be because we sort of pute the federal government on the hook in a way i dont think we should have in terms of this an. Weve turned this into an extraordinary political issue that president ial candidates kick around. And i would like to get theevos department out of the middle of this cross fire if theres some way to do it going forward. So, your thoughts are most welcome. Sure, as i mentioned earlier, its a very large and complex issue. And i think we tha spend a lot time talking about the loans and the debt that students are taking f higheron, not quite as time challenging why the cost of Higher Education continues to t skyrocket. And, you know, theres abudget theory around that. But our Budget Proposal does suggest capping off the amount that graduate students can taken out ind Student Loans through. Federal government and capping out the amount importantly that parents can take. We know that there have been all too many parents that have taken out loans greater than they are able to really afford and socias security being garnished as a result. But graduate students, we have over yeah. On the thank you very much. First to my colleagues on the other side, let me just say this to you. A appreciate your comments, but when many of us started public. Schools, school wrss segregated. We couldin not go to Public Schools, got it . In 2017, we asked the secretary tot the submit a report about t resegregation of our Public Schools. To date, that report has not ot been submitted. So, i cannot be nice when i ask about this because this is serious for ouran black and broe students and many of us c scho understand the roleol of the federal government in et me desegregation of Public Schools. Now, madam secretary, let me asl you about the budget as it relates to expanding pell grants for incarcerated students. Est an you said youy supported that, bt i cant find in your budget request any line item for that. Have you estimated how much it would cost or do you plan to request funding for this . Well, we have made the request to have congress consider permanent expansion because its not a program othee than a pilot through the department currently, there to g isnt age specific piece of budgetary guidance to suggest with it. So, what do we need to do to get you to do that, to submutt a line item for us . Well, i think Congress Needs to act and make Second Chance pell a program. Have to authorize progr itsam currently just an Experimental Program through our authorities in the department. Okay. S no so, well work ont that. Let me ask you about hbcus because this budget doesnt increasee funding for hbcus except those lein the opportuni zones. We know that theup president po touted his support for hbcus yet we see a budget that level funde our historically black colleges well,they i will definitely that is definitely indication of continued support for the Important Role hbcus play but 50 wont be included in this. But the level funding for the remainder of the hbcurelated programs is also an indication of the priority that we have placed on that. And then in 150 million plus up for hbcus and other are minorityserving institutions for s. T. E. M. Related programs in opportunity zones which opportunity zones are allll across the country in rural and urban areas. You thank you, madam secretary. M thank you, again, madam secretary. Madam chair, without objection id move to include the may 20 Harvard Kennedyy school poll ino the record. Good. Madam secretary, lets just clear upup something about thes education freedom scholarships. I write a check to my church every week, its tax deductible. Im assuming my church is using it its something religious m associated with it. So, theeo idea of having some t preference for someone who actually has a a religious bents not a new concept. s is that right . Thats correct. T. Thank you. Okay. Now, lets talk about the may ax 2019 Harvard Kennedy school poll that looked at School Choice and looked at tax credits and most importantly vouchers for low sl incomeed students. Fact of the matter is that by 4t to 41 , all the people that they sampled approve it. , the most interesting thing im ashamed republicans only have 44 . The reason the democrats prefer it more because africanamerican democrats have 70 approval forn low incomeic vouchers, and hispanic democrats, 67 . Thats right. Now, the fact of the matter l is thate these parents, these people the people who actually are most concerned with their students with their childrens education outcome actually want low income vouchers. And i would suggest its a softl bigotry of low expectations that somehow were not going to provide it to them because we a know better. You know, to vote a candidate whos now the president , i have a suspicion that a lot of those parents are asking themselves the question what do i have to lose . I yield back. Congressman. Thank you. Im going to try to channel my energy on moolenaar who always has grace. Im a product of middle class mt neighborhoods. We sold my moms house for abot 115,000. People like me got our opportunity to get where we gotf because of a Public Education. U. So, im very passionate about Public Education. And many of these schools, because they discriminate, as a gay kid, i wouldnt have been able to go to. I would have been beat up. I take that very personally. May i comment to that as erve well . Sure. Please. K im also passionate about Public Schools. Im passionate about all schools, all schools that serve kids and are good fits for kids. Im agnostic for what comes before schools. Sure. Can i ask my question because is have less than two minutes. S, what are we doing to go after t those taxhe dollars that weve lost that have gone to these failed Charter Schools, the onee that havent opened or failed . Are we doing anything to get that money back . Riddled again, that report has been totally debun ked i as but there are failed schools it is i riddled with inaccuracies. When i ask a question, dont answer a different one. It was like 1. 5 of total schools that didnt open. Th i will be happy to get back with you i will be happy to look into that further and get back with you on the disposition. N. I for accept that as an answt thank you very much. Follow up on the for profit as colleges. I know that you got ridth of a program that was in the Obama Administration that protected students who had these failed colleges on their loans. 18 states had had to sue the department of education about this loan recently said the Ct Department of education was not following that order and was ts fined 100,000. My question is what are we doing to collect those payments . Are we going to try to take care of those students . So, every student that has filed whats calledat a borrow defense claim was put in fore ec bear ens at the time. Ake when i got to my job there was no process and i said its going to take a while to figure out the process. Long lets make sure these students r areoc incurring anymore interes arent having to pay nipipclos n their Student Loans as long as the claims are in have processy that is thee claim on the claim not yet closed. Weve been stymied a couple of steps along the way by procedural rulings in court. Were still waiting for the 9tht a trict to rule on methodology. But nothing pains me more than to not be able to resolve those thank you, madam chair and again, thank you, madam m secretary, for being here. I want to talk to you about the block grants because i think thats an important concept that its kind of hard to get our hands around. So if i understand what youre saying is, youre taking some oi the federally mandated spendingt programs, consolidating it together into a Flexible Spending Program that states and local School Districts are goiny to have the ability to determine. Co so, for instance, if one local community said they wanted to focus on School Safety, they could use those funds for that . Correct. It, t if one said, hey, we think career and College Counseling should be part of it, they could use it for that . Correct. Mental health counselors, my colleague mentioned, you can usg it for these needs that are ne identified kind of on the ground where people are saying, this if really what our School District needs. Well, recalling that most of these programs, including and t spas especially title 1, wereadvantao to really help the most disadvantaged students. I go back to my opening e statement where i said a trillion dollars spent over thee last 40 years to close the achievement gap hasnt closed sc one bit,trum has opened in many cases for lot of kids particularly at the low end of the spectrum, soy lets do something different. Lets allow for that flexibilitt to translate down to the local levelel so they can target thoso dollars where the students need it most. Thank you. F then, in terms of a dollar amount because i know whenever i were talking au inin ining bud are upset about different spendispend ing levels. Ultimately, your point is congress is going to determine what spending level is in that. Correct. Ion yes. The administration has advanced this Budget Proposal. Abo the important part, the policy part here about the block grant i think is the really important piece to consider. Er. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, madam chair. Madam thank you, madam chair. I to followup, your last statement to me is we do not vel discriminate against children, is that correct . T . We uphold all of the laws of this land. And are yes. Okay. If were operating on a nondiscrimination basis, which i think is the absolutely appropriate role for you to take, i hope that you will resci rescind. School e8 of the safe fy citizen education fy 21 budget request where you say you stand by that racist research. Asury. I will look forward to you reversing course from that position in your budget. We can have a long discussion nd about tax credits and treasury. D i understand tax credits. You and i disagree apparently wt that tax credits are federal edo funding, but will you, as secretary of education, who has just said you will not allow children to be discriminated byu race, religion, transgender try status, sexual orientation, will you guarantee to me, to the children of this country at the however funded this program than is in your budget, that is 5 es billion of taxpayer money, when it is rolled out in states, wile you guarantee that every singlen school will have a Nondiscrimination Policy in order to qualify for that . Congresswoman, this is not proposed to be a federal program, this is proposed to be a federal tax credit. That doesnt will you guarantee. Let me finish. The legislation is specifically for states to create programs s k that are going to meet the needs of the most vulnerable and needy students in their state. Were right back to where we ise. Y of we are right back to the reality of the fact that this br program is to be implemented and designed at the state level, voluntarily contributed to by federal taxpayers. E i have two seconds left so s im going to be clear that you have corrected the record. When you said to any that you ao secretary of education wouldul ensure that this program would only go to schools with nondiscrimination policies. That is no longer your stance, this is a states choice, that a you will not do that as secretary of education . Maam, may i just suggest youre mixing up and youre not . Staying clear on the purpose of this program which is to help students get a great education in a place that fits for them. Your inability to say you would stand up for kids is appalling and you really should resign. Congresswoman herrerabeutler. Thank you, madam chair. I would love to have a little bit more clarification on the ia opportunity scholarship, or the federal freedom opportunity Choice Program because i do want to make sure its on the record very clearly, whether its a new program, whether its federal funding and whether there are strings attached, and actually, too, whether by somehow, i waya recognize its treasurys aws of program, is there some way this is not under the laws of the land . Are civil rights, constitutional rights, somehow abridged with starting this program . Let we start with that directly first, no our civil rights are not abridged in any way, period. Its not a new program to be leo administered at the federal tioi level. Its merely a vehicle to to effectively and efficiently geto voluntary contributions directly to scholarshipgranting organizations as decided by states that choose to participate. Theyre goingund angrams to turn around and create one or more programs that are going to specifically address the needs of k12 students in their state. So no more than giving money to planned parenthood, which iss 501c3 or your church which is tax a exempt, this is no more federal funding than correct. Because churches arent federal funded, right . I think theres a pretty big divide there. The other its going down. The other thing is it going up or down . S in the departm the other thing i wanted to ask about, are there opportunities g in the department with regard to encouraging students who o participate in dual credit programs like running start . Dram thats one way i think we will help them with their college g starts. Our proposal is to dramatically increase funding for career and technical nducation. I think ime i think importantly this comes f at a time states are writing their perkins 5 programs. Ive visited a lot of schools that have fledgeling dual enr l Enrollment Programs and many want to expand them dramatically. G i expect that will be a growing reality and certainly those places being forward leaning and recognizing opportunities for their students are going to get that right. Thank you. Congresswoman frankel. Thank you. One of i just want to im going to followup on ms. Clarks question. First of all, one of my x colleagues compared to tax credit to a tax deduction. I think its a big difference. N you would agree with that. A tax credit, you take a certait percentage of what you owe and instead of paying it to the federal government, youre giving it to a private school . No. You get to give it directly, effectively and efficiently to a private school. Not to a provide school, to a scholarshipgranting organization. Okay. Okay. Lets a 501c3. Got it. At cho a nonprofit scholarshipgranting organization. And a state that chooses to participate exactly. Could then decide to expand career and Technical Education. Let me say something. The state of florida where im from, theyve been having this program and very successfully. No, not very successfully. Ate in fact, i just read an article where three banks that had been contributing have now pulled out because they found there are 156 schools in florida that are discriminating against people who are lgbtq. It so, i just heres what i want to say. We have a difficult philosophy. I just want to say this. I think it is a mistake, i believe, for you to come in here to cut 6 billion, to ask for at cut of 6 billion out of Public Education and then at the same time ask us, or ask this congress, to set up a program so that whether its a corporation or person, a total of 5 billion can now go, instead of to the federal government to pay taxes to some Scholarship Program that they can put money into a private institution that ag discriminates against people. I think thats a mistake. Maam, isnt education about kids . Is yes. Education is about k okay. Ill tell you something, g the great equalizer in life is e good Public Education. Its a good education, yes. One other thing i want to say which is this. I am very disappointed that im going to try to say this nicely. Okay. D ignorapolicy o im very disappointed that you v feigned ignorance today about a dangerous new policy about on campus violence. E. Im very, very worried about that and im really i dont understand why you couldnt maam, im not ignorant about it. I told you we have not released the final rule and it would not be appropriate for me to comment. Okay. Thank you. I yield back. Public education is a great equalizer. The reason the federal government has a role in Public Education was to guarantee that children were protected, that opportunities were available, that there was equality and equity of the educational delivery system, and its not about alternatives to that system. Y to m we have a responsibility to mak. That system work for all the children. It concerns me, i asked you a question, how do you reconcile the disproportion discipline of minority students in school, oa suspensions, et cetera, and eveo the arresting of a 6yearold in schools without your questioning why that is happening. One other thing, madam secretary, any time the federal government puts money into one of these School Districts, you can require there be a nondiscrimination program. You got a responsibility to require that theres not discrimination against children whether or not theyre black, latino or part of the lgbtq communities. That is your responsibility. But you dont seem to give one good hoot about Public Education. Every time we talk about Public Education, you talk about a education. He alter when you talk about education, you talk about the alternatives that you think work. Let me tell you, one of the reasons that our children are not achieving to the extent that they are intellectually capable of doing so is because were not putting the resources where they need to be, in the Public School system. Until we reconcile that, you all dont have any right to talk about improving the system. I yield back. Madam chairwoman, could i just comment on that . I didnt ask a question. Congresswoman cole, if you want to wrap up your comments, i will wrap up and bring this to a close. U. Well, its been another eventful day, madam chair. Time. I want to thank you. I want to thank you for the service you render this country each and every day. Ng an thank you. Ive known you for a long time. I agree with my friend, mr. Moolenaar, i dont know of anybody that cares more about young people getting a good education than you. You have a lifetime commitment , and service and generosity, as does your family to demonstrated that. Oes while we may have disagreements on any particular programs, you and i have a couple, it doesnt diminish one whit from the enormous sacrifice and service you and your family have given people of all races, all colorsh every ethnicity, every back gou background for many, many, many years. I consider your service aslary. T secretary to be an extension of that, quite frankly. Thank you. Second, i really want to. Applaud you on this career and Technical Education initiative. Both the additional money for vt the institutions and questions you propose, i think its a very wise investment. I particularly appreciate you taking the lead and putting on front we have a lot of students that would benefit from this kind of education that t te what are even very modest fees as a rule. We so your willingness to look at the pell grant as an extension, you know, we all want kids that want to get college educations, have that opportunity. Its one of the reasons why i im but i also recognize theo vast majority ofr young people arent going to go for a fouryearar college. Imes they either dont, wantwe to o thats not the right approach for them. Us on i think sometimes we forget about them a lot. In this proposal, i think youre actually putting the focus on folks that are too often forgotten. Th youre putting the focus on you and the president are part of that. Hes been a leader and took the apprentice proposal and obama proposal and put more money in that. This has been a very consistent theme in his tenure and your tenure. So i appreciate that. Finally, i want to continue the dialogue in a variety of plea programs. Cond cha love to invite you sometime, id love you i was particularly pleased with your proposal on Second Chance pell. Ive been to Tulsa Community college and seen that program. They do outstanding work. Thank you very much for mentioning them. It will surprise, delight and thrill them no end. I think more importantly, its part of our population, again, n that gets neglected and left behind. You putting a searchlight on it and saying, lets help people that had misfortune and made mistakes get back on the right track in life and give them an opportunity to make a decent t, living. Its really a good thing. The last thing i will commit to you im going to wrestle with this student loan problem. Glae it as a real issue. Im glad you mentioned the cost selling point about the cost of college as well. This isnt just a matter of the federal government, we have a lot of private institutions that need to think very carefully ulh about how they counsel students and what they encourage them to do, and, frankly, the advice sometimes they dont give them h as to what the appropriate level of debt, if any, should be for them. Ministration of this, you rightly pointed out and frustrates people and im m sure frustrates our chairman tht amount of resources put into looking after this. My personal view, we made a big mistake. We got out of the loan guarantet business and dumped this over at the department of education and asked you to take on a mission that in my view should not be your mission. Your thoughts are valuable. Muni. Finally, madam chairman, i want to thank you. Youre always a great working partner and appreciate the way you manage our committee. Have dn we occasionally have ward t differences, but we very seldom have deep disagreements about the task in front of us. Our juri i look forward to working with ifference craft this budget andl others under our jurisdiction. Tm i know as always well find a lot more Common Ground than we do differences. Reement cant commit to vote for your first bill, but if we can come to an agreement in conference, i think we can do it again. Thank you. Yield back. I want to thank the gentleman. Its really been an extraordinary, positive, a Work Experience, but positive and foh that im deeply, deeply grateful. Its that friendship that allows us to get the business of the ir country done. Thats why were all here, and we believe in that. I just want to stay one thing, madam secretary. I got a couple of items, but the couple of comments that my s tot colleagues have made with regard to this notion that states can take if theyre taking public money in whatever form and they dis crimina discriminate, that that will be up to the states. You may not want to take on that issue. We all believe you have that authority, but we are not going to stand by and watch states discriminate against our children in terms of proceeding to get an education. K let me mention on puerto rico, if i can. E contin s i want to take time to acknowledge the continued struggles of children in puerto rico. They have been really dealing with trying to recover from earthquakes, from all kinds of disasters. Still from hurricane maria. I have been told and will look into this, kids are going to school in tents. I dont know if youve been or your staff has been to the island. I would ask you to do that, and to see these conditions and really to urge the o. Administration to support the house supplemental bill. Its really imperative. Fearful when i was there for maria, children were afraid to go to school because if they went to s school, they were fearful when. They went home their parents would not be there. We are dealing with both education and we are dealing with Mental Health issues regarding these children. I think we all believe we have n moral responsibility in this area. A lotdisc and finally, let me just say, theres been a lot of discussion about the k12 education programs. Pr my view, i think the view of mys colleagues, is you propose to eliminate these programs. Replace them with one block ingn grant, in your words. Eliminate federal burdens that have been in a, quote, have inhibited innovation. Im concerned, madam secretary, that you confuse essential protections for children across all the formula programs as burdens. One of this nations most urgene charges is to address the achievement gap between eng learners and their native englishspeaking peers as a condition of receiving title 3 state districts need language programs, professional development of teachers, of english learners, parents, ful family, community, engagement. From the testimony, it appears that you look at the elementary and second airy education act se and see a law full of formula grants that place burdens on ei states. I however, i look at the elementary secondary education. Act. I see a law of vital protections for the most vulnerable students in our nations care. Ustice english learners, Homeless Children and youth, migrant children, children in the juvenile Justice System, and the list goes on. We need to be absolutely clear. The department, you are the department, should be straight with the nations parents and educators. Let them know which ones the vital protections and safeguards are going to be rolled back. My final comment is, and the Ranking Member mentioned this, that maybe not your budget but an omb budget, but its your efd job. You defend the budget, and year after year, you defend cuts and question the effectiveness of federal investment in Public Education. This year, defending the proposal to eliminate we can have all the words possible, but we eliminate 41 programs. Requet last year, we talked about the 2020 request. T includ i asked whether, you know, your request to omb in september included cuts to Special Olympics. And we didnt get a straight answer. Around long and short of it, Special Olympics is not cut this time. Around. But examine the cuts. What the department and what the administration are doing with regard to the cuts. Its not so much this is where i come down i am quitel frankly tired of just saying, 40 million in a cut here, 26 e million in a cut here, thats c it is about the consequences. Its about what the effect of i those cuts are on our children. And i think we both from our perspective and from ours have to be understanding of that opportunity to achieve your dreams and your aspirations through education, are being curtailed, and in particular for the most vulnerable of our kids, and kids in rural districts, ty kids who are in high poverty areas. That wont get the kind of attention that they need. I do believe its a moral ieve g responsibility to utilize all the power of the federal government to engage with these communities and these students. So my hope is is that we will come forward with a bill in the education area that will meet their needs, and we can do that on a bipartisan basis. I thank you for being here and thank you for the work that you do on behalf of the countrys children. Thank you, chairwoman. Thank you. The hearing is concluded. Thank you. Tonight, a senate panel investigates the vetting process of International Military students. The review was ordered after a saudi student shot and killed three Service Members at a naval base in pensacola, florida, in december. Watch this Senate Armed Services subCommittee Hearing tonight starting at 8 00 eastern here on cspan3. This weekend on booktv, mayoral leadership, reflections from a watergate lawyer, and the effect of a twoparty political system on democracy. Saturday night at 11 00 p. M. Eastern, in the nation city, former chicago mayor and Obama Administration chief of staff rahm emanuel on innovation at the local level in cities across the country. Then on sunday at 7 50 p. M. Eastern, in her latest book, the watergate girl, Jill Winebanks talks about her legal career including her role as one of the three assistant special prosecutors in the watergate case. And at 9 00 p. M. On after words new america senior fellow argues in his book breaking the twoparty doom loop that the twoparty system is damaging americas democracy. Hes interviewed by George Washington University Professor and author matthew dallek. What would be the chief advantages to having a multiparty democracy . Democracy, i mean, democracy is always going to involve conflict because politics is confli conflict. The issues of consensus are not political issues, but the challenge is we need to have some system by which we can agree that some set of rules are fair and some set of procedures are fair and we can abide by those outcomes. Watch rahm emanuel, Jill Winebanks, and after words with lee drutman this weekend on bo booktv and be sure to tune in next weekend for our twoday live coverage of the tucson festival of books on booktv on cspan2. A state dinner at the white house. Vice president and mrs. Lyndon johnson are among those who joined president and mrs. Kennedy in honoring his imperial majesty and the empress. This weekend on reel america on American History tv, the 1962 film, Firm Alliance on the state visit by the shah and empress of iran with president john kennedy and first Lady Jacqueline kennedy. I speak on behalf of all of my fellow americans in welcoming you to the united states. The interest of both of us is the same. To maintain our freedom. To maintain our peace. And to provide a better life for our people. Reel america sunday at 4 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv on cspan3. Zblchlg sunday night on q a peggy wall loace kennedy, daughter of George Wallace. Talks about her fathers controversial career and what inspired her to write her book. The broken road. Back in 1996 we took our youngest son who was 9 at the time to the Martin Luther king museum, historical site, in atlanta. And we went to his church and to his grave and we went over to the museum and it was being newly constructed at that time. And we were going through the exhibits and we came to the exhibit, alabama exhibit, and it showed the Edmund Pettus bridge, the bombed out 16th street baptist church, firehoses and dogs, birmingham, and George Wallace standing in the schoolhouse door. And berns looked up at me, he said he was so sad, why did papa do those things to other people . And it broke my heart. And i said, papa never told me why he did those things to other people, but i know he was wrong, so maybe it will just have to be up to you and me to help make things right. Watch sunday night at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspans q a. The House Rules Committee held a hearing on the constitutional authorities and responsibilities of the legislative branch of government. Law professors spoke about the role of congress and the balance of power between the three branches of government. The rules committee will come to order. I want to welcome our witnesses, invited jointly by myself and mr. Cole and i want to thank them for being here