Transcripts For CSPAN3 Education Secretary DeVos Testifies On Presidents 2021 Budget Request 20240713

The subcommittee will come to order. Good morning, secretary devos. Welcome this morning. Welcome to the subcommittee. This is our second budget hear ing of the year. Today as i was reviewing the budget materials, madam secretary, this much was clear to me. I believe and ive had this conversation before with you, i believe for our student and our country. Instead we need to expand things like childhood education that we know helps students to succeed. We see this in other countries around the globe. They are not shrinking public support but, in fact, are expanding it. Ill get more into the consequences of the cuts you are proposing. But i want to start by examining your privatization philosophy. The full premise on which it is built and the research that it ignores. Contrary to your claims, the nations Public Education system which 90 of our children attend has witnessed significant progress for all groups of students over the last 30 years. Average mathematic scores have improved for fourth graders by 13 . Eighth graders by 7 . While overall reading kboouchlts have been more modest. Black fourth graders scores improved by 6 and eighth graders by 8 . Hispanic fourth grader scores improved by 6 and eighth graders by 5 . These are significantly higher than 40 years ago for all racial and ethnic groups. And i reflect on that and ask myself the question, where would we be without federal investments . There is no question that there is more to do to address the disparities in achievement. We know we face significant challenges with kids that come into our system. And education is districts where they experience poverty and exposure to violence often resulting in trauma. But the solution is not less resources. Nor is it more privatization. Let me if i can just quote for you from a report by dr. Pamela kanter who is a psychiatrist. She cofound ed an Educational Organization call eed turnaroun for children which translates the science of learning and development into a problem of solving in our schools. She led in new york city by the board of education to assess the impact of the terrorist attacks on the citys Public School children. What did she find . Surprisingly 60 of the children they observed had had trauma hindering school, it is from their ongoing experience of growing up in poverty. Not from what they witnessed that terrifying september day. In fact, the administrations own data has shown it let students down. The Trump Administration evaluated the Scholarship Program. And found that vouchers had a statist statistically negative impact. On the mathematic achievement on impacted students. In other words. More vouchers lower math achievement. That is not a lone data point either. Using data has found no achievement scores for children in private schools were higher than those of children in Public Schools by any statistically significant degree. I think they found this to be the case in indiana and louisiana. And there are other examples which i can make available to you and to your staff. So your push is not supported by data. But its consequences would be to undermine the education of our students in nearly every state. Particularly for students in high need regions including the rural parts of our country. You would end career and College Readiness for 560,000 low income students across 45 states by eliminating the highly competitive grand program known as gear up. Minus 365 million you would endanger academic tutoring, personal counseling, and other programs for 800,000 students in programs by 140 million. Trio serves low income first generation students and to help them graduate from college. You would endanger Education Access for Children Experiencing Homelessness by eliminating the education for Homeless Children and youth program. Minus 102 million. This funding is desperately needed. In the 201617 school year, more than 1. 3 million enrolled children had experienced homelessness at some point in the past three years. An increase of 7 from 2014, 2015. You would endanger youth literacy including class size and undermine efforts to support diverse teachers by eliminating the main Program Supporting effective instruction state grants which we increase for the first time in many years. Youve taken 1. 2 billion away from this program. You would potentially put Higher Education out of the financial grasp of students by funding the pell grant. 40 of undergraduate students rely on pell grants to afford Higher Education. But while covering the average cost of tuition tees at a fouryear Public Institution in 1975, it covers only 29 today. Our students cannot afford for us to stand for this. And finally, your budget would risk exacerbating the financial challenges of underresourced rural districts by converting grants into the block grant. These districts already struggle with lower student populations, higher transportation costs and your move to undermine their funding in this way is unacceptable. With all of this and i just say this to you with all sincerity, this is not going to happen. It is not going to happen. I am supportive of the grant proposed increase, career Technical Education, 6 0 million proposed increase. I am disappointed at Adult Education state grants are left with level funding. You have also once again requested an increase for student loan servicing. We including new reforms as you know in fiscal year 2020 to help us conduct more oversight and ensure that borrowers are getting what they need. Many of these ideas stem from an oversight hearing that this subkmae held last year. And to be direct, i will need to see how the department implements the new requirements as i review your request for next year. With regard to Charter Schools, there is a place for them. They have a role in our education system. However, we have moved in the direction of creating a parallel education system. Concerns remain around issues of accountability and transparency which to this point they have not been forthcoming. As i have said time and time again, i believe Charter Schools ought to be held to the same rigor and where they fail we need to know about it. And to close, madam secretary, you are clearly again in my view seeking to privatize Public Education. I hope that i have been clear that we are not going to do that. Because doing so ignores the research indicating the gains we have made. Ignores the many areas shortchanges students, ignores the reason the federal government needs to be involved in education. As so powerfully indicated with brown versus the board of education. And ignored the spirit and the values of this country. No, instead we need to be expanding Public Policies that boost education. Not restricting or reducing them. And now its my pleasure to turn to my colleagues the Ranking Member tom cole from oklahoma. Thank you. I want to tell you this is my favorite time of year because i get to spend so much time with you and this committee hearing. Were going to have dinner tonight and its always a delight. Honestly is. A vigorous exchange of ideas and more m we tend to get credit for. Its a pleasure for me to have you here today. Ive known you for a long time. Long before we were in our respective capacities. Ill leave it to you to describe your public philosophy, but theres two things i know about you. Your Public Education philosophy. But one is that youve always been for individualizing education. Youve always been for whats the right job, role, or place for this particular student to be. And i see a lot of that in your proposals. And two, youve never been afraid to put a bold idea on the table and advance it. Theres a lot of boldness here. Some which i agree with. Some of which i dont. But that doesnt bother me. I like the idea that youre willing to break the mold and think about this because we have a lot of challenges. And youre our chief officer overseeing probably the most diverse educational system in the world. I just think about my own district. Ive got five colleges and universities. Everything from, you know, great comprehensive state institutions to elite liberal arts institutions. To regional facilities to private christian colleges. Ive got, you know, like everybody else most of the young people that im privileged to represent and their families go to Public Schools. But ive got Charter Schools and private Religious Schools. Ive got home schools. And they all do a good job. They all wrestle with the same problems. And ive got one of the most robust career tech systems any place throughout oklahoma and my district. I was pleased with the number of proposals that you made in that regard. I think well have a great session today. Im looking forward to me to understand how important it is for our entire population to have access to quality education. Without question education is one of our most important Building Blocks for success and access to quality learning directly impacts Lifelong Development and unlocks each development potential. I was pleased to see you prioritize resources to certain populations of children who need support. In School Districts whose revenues are impacted by federal presence within fund raising. As you know, im a strong supporter of Technical Education. Im proud my home state of oklahoma is leading the way. Cutting edge skills that can lead to good paying rewarding careers for student who is do not wish to pursue a liberal arts degree. And i thank you for your support of these programs and im looking forward to asking you more questions about the substantial increases in your budget that your budget proposes for these programs this year. I also want to recognize your proposal to recognize pell grants to students enrolled in shortterm programs that offer a credential and high demand field. These offer high payment employment. Throughout my district as well as many others. Interesting to me how many times weve had when we do member testimony, members come here and specifically push the need for career in Technical Education both in terms of Job Opportunities and asking for skills. I think you really focused on a key area here. Ive spoken to other members of congress who believe its time to make pell grants available for individual. I aplau plaud you putting that on for consideration. Your budget proposes to elimina eliminate, consolidate, or change two dozen programs. Some of these proposals may make sense in the context of a reauthorization. I believe others are short sided 37 i agree with my friend the chairman im particularly concerned about the moving the trio program from a competitive grant mile to the formular grant. Thats been a position ive held throughout my career. Im also concerned about several minorities serving Institutions Fund into a single stream. As you know, these serve distinct populations with different needs. Im not certain such a change makes sense. However, i feel that these often disadvantaged minority populations may be overlooked in a if theyre not singled out. I also would like to acknowledge your proposal to address limitations in the student aid program. Establishing federal student aid as a separate organization is an issue i think worth thinking about. Im not sure were the right people to consider it here. Really much more of an authorizing function than were equipped to handle. To create a more focused system. The next generation promises to modernize and improve the structure benefitting over 40 million customers. Fanlly while i tend to support to freeing School Districts from the bureaucracy involved with small separate programs, i do have some concerns that consolidate some programs such as the Charter School program could have negative consequence for the very students we hope to benefit by these proposals. Ill have a few questions about that. Again, theres a risk here that some states are welcoming to Charter Schools. Others, quite frankly, are not. And so i worry a little bit about, you know, the Public Sector taking money that we want to try and see these things. I know you probably know more about this than anybody on this panel. Youve had a lot of experience here. So im interested in your perspective on that. I know you faced a difficult challenge in making all the pieces fit into a tight budget. This isnt necessarily your budget. This is the budget that is tasked to defend. Im not going to ask you about that. I would expect you to be of course supportive of the president s position on this and overall budget priorities. But i think that does put you just as it did secretary azar in a difficult position. Sometimes you may well have been forced to make cuts that you did not advocate. We had a famous incident on that last year on Special Olympics, as i recall. So i know you sometimes privately make an argument we might agree with up here. Again, i respect that. That is one that we take a position as we have it. Great personal sacrifice. I admire you quite frankly. The gentlelady from connecticut to remain a fundamental priority in this years hhs build just as it was last year. Frankly just as it was when i was privileged to be chairman. And my friend has always been a good partner in that endeavor. Whichever role she has. Chair of the committee or Ranking Member. So i look forward to working with my friend once again to craft the budget that balances our many priorities and invests in our countrys people and its future. I look forward to your testimony. And today madam chairman, i yield back the madam secretary. I yield back to you, chairman. I thank my friend the Ranking Member and look forward to working with you on this. We will put it together as we have in the past. And now id like to turn to the distinguished chair of the full committee for any comments that she may have. Good morning and thank you, madam secretary, for appearing before the committee. I look forward to the exchange of ideas. And i want to thank chairman deloro and cole for holding this meeting. That has been filled with program cuts and outright eliminations. Without fail, your vision hurts our students and their families. Like every previous year, we are going to reject this proposal. Wed like us to believe this proposal empowers states and districts with flexibility. But the numbers dont lie. You proposed eliminating 41 programs. Cutting Education Funding overall by 6. 2 billion. The department of educations mission is to promote student achievement and Global Competitiveness by fostering excellence and ensuring equal access. Secretary devos, your budget is clearly on a different mission. One that shirks our responsibilities. It would take more than my allotted time to read the complete list of eliminations and funding cuts. So i will only highlight a few. All of which demonstrate a lack of commitment to Educational Equity across elementary, secondary, and postsecondary education. Where we should be protecting and building on a 16. 3 billion investment in title one schools, your Budget Proposal has eliminated this support for students in high priority schools. You propose eliminating full Service Community schools in my district. Among the first in the country. Has showed that integrating social services, community engagement, improved student learning, strengthen families, and empowers. Its so exciting to see these youngsters get all that they need within the school itself. Because many of these parents are working two jobs and to have it all there, to have the parents come in and be part of it is very, very exciting. So i must admit it was disappointing for me to see this program eliminated. Its disappointi indisappointin. Eliminates the english Language Acquisition Program which is vital for combatting inequality by improving outcomes for english language learners. Working families count on afterSchool Programs so that they can go to work knowing their child is safe in learning. But your budget request eliminates this funding. More than half of americans live in a child care desert. And that include the one in foofive College Student who is are parents. On campus child care programs like the virginia marks Children Center at Westchester Community college helps student parents successfully pursue degrees. But you would cut funding for the child care access. 72 is a lot of parents and children who wont be able to ak says this opportunity. It would be absurd for the socalled fiscal responsibility. More than 2 billion in Student Financial grants and institutions would be cut. And instead squandered on a border wall. By eliminating and reducing funds, this would exacerbate the opportunity gap. Our students deserve better and i sincerely hope your response to our questions would address these concerns. And i thank you again for appearing before us. Thank you. We will now turn to testimony and full testimony as you know will be made for the record. And ill ask you for the time to summarize so that we can get to everyones questions and after that we will proceed to fiveminute rounds. You can recognize members in order of seniority and appearance. Please begin. Thank you. Chairwoman, Ranking Member, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear on the 2021 budget. While discussing a budget, its important to remember that federal Government Spending does not determine everything thats important to us nor sit the only solution when we encounter opportunities. Instead, we the people overcome challenges and seize opportunities. Thats why this departments budget is focused on returning power to the people. To those closest to students and students themselves. Our budget begins by recognizing that education is a local issue. Congress recognized that truth when they had that 40 years ago. It promised the move would and i quote not increase the authority of the federal government over education nor diminish the responsibility for education which is reserved to the states. End quote. This Administration Proposes aligning the budget so that families, teachers, and state and local leaders are free to do whats right for students. The budget would expand education freedom for students so they can prepare for successful careers. And it would refocus our approach to Higher Education so that students are at the center of everything we do. Over 40 years, federal taxpayers have spent more than 1 trillion trying to fix k12 education. Each Year Congress grew the budget from nearly 7 billion in 1980 to more than 41 billion in 2020 for k12 education alone. But what have we bought with all that spending . Just open up the latest nations report card to see the sad results. No real improvement in student achievement in decades. So instead of holding fast to what we know does not work, let me suggest we find the courage to do something bold and begin a new era of student growth and achievement. The every Student Succeeds act gives us insight into where to go. Ssa became law because education had failed. So you moved to restore the proper roles in education. The bipartisan to address local channels. This Administration Proposes congress compliment its work on essa and make the budget match the law. States must work with local communities and families to develop comprehensive plans. And so states should be able to pay according toly. Into one single block grant. Overall, americans spend about 860 billion on k12 education every year. Last Year Congress appropriated about 24 billion of that. Or roughly 2. 5 of total education spending. And yet each year, teachers and School Leaders spend more than 2 million hours complying with federal recordkeeping requirements for that small slice of the pie. 2 million hours. More than 83,000 days. Teachers, administrators, and leaders need to work on people not pauperwork. Results, not regulation. Different state wills invest their share dumpbtly and thats okay. In fact, thats what we hope they do. They can better figure out what their students need because they know their students. Every student is unique and each one of them learns differently. Every child needs the freedom to learn in places and ways that work for them. Thats why the president s 2021 budget also renews the calls for an investment in americans students. Our proposal is a dollar for dollar federal income tax credit for voluntary contributions to state based nonprofit organizations that provide scholarships directly to students. I like to picture kids with backpacks representing funding following them wlvr they go to learn. The budget also requests an increase in supporting children with disabilities amounting to a total of 4 billion. Theres also a request for a dramatic expansion of career and Technical Education programs. At an overall increase of nearly 900 million, its the largest investment in cte ever. It includes a total for perkins state grants. Additionally were requesting 150 million, an increase of more than 135 million to fund stem activities led by hbcus and other minority serving institutions located in opportunity zones. This administration wants every student in america to have more education options that focus on preparing them for successful careers. That goes hand in hand with the Ground Breaking consider that fsa is a bank that has dra mat you cannily outgrown its structure. We propose a new governance structure and whether fsa should be a stand alone entity. In the meantime, were continuing to build on the reforms with one operating system, one website. And importantly on providing customers, students, and their families with a seamless student loan experience. In the end, our budget is about one thing. Putting students and their needs above all else. Its a budget that recognizes that no student and no state, no teacher and no town are the same. States need to be free to address the particular problems of their people. And students of all ables need the freedom to find their fit. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Im happy to respond to your questions. Thank you. Were missing larry keene. So welcome to you as well. To justify your cuts does not improve Student Outcomes. A Student Outcomes by northwest economists found statistically significant positive results for students in 12 out of 13 studies. Which is why dr. Jackson concludes by and large the question of whether Money Matters is essentially settled. I dont understand, madam secretary, why do you continue to claim that Additional Resources to Public Schools do not improve Student Outcomes when the empirical evidence tells us the exact opposite. Im just going to i i admittedly have not read through all of them. I have read some of them. But this is by education experts. People who understand the su science of learning and development and how it improves. The data is overwhelming. So i ask you again, how do you continue to make these claims that Student Outcomes do not improve when empirical evidence tells us the opposite . Chairwoman, let me just refer back to the nape results. But before i do that, theres a couple of things that you said in your opening comments that i need to comment to. First of all, im not out to privatize anything about education. Im out to make sure every students education is personalized. Individualized for them that they find the right fit to unlock their potential. So lets talk about personalization, not about privatization. Thats not the issue. Thats not the goal. And we have spent over a trillion dollars at the federal level to close the achievement gap in the last 40 years. That achievement gap has not closed one little bit. Thats not true. In fact, for many poor students its only grown wider. You look at the state by state results. You look at the Overall Results and they are dismal. Two out of three eighth graders cannot read or do their do math at their grade level. I would want to know where those schools are, what the environmental circumstances are, what kind of resources are going into those schools to the training of teachers and improving the lives of the families who live there and making sure that the youngsters have that experience. And the trained people that they need. If you deny the resources to the schools that need the help most, yes, you will fail. Im going to tell you actually, if you free up the resources for people at the most local level, you see results. You can see it in florida. You can see it in mississippi where they focused solely on improving reading outcoming. The district of columbia where the data from this administration has indicated thats not the case. You know, weve got scores higher in 2019 for most racial ethnic groups in both subjects and at both grades compared to the early 1990s. This is the nape data. Scores in math and reading are significant higher than they were 40 years ago. For all racial and ethnic groups. So the fundamental principle and the underlying philosophy on which you move forward and cutting all these programs and move to 5 billion for vouchers flies in the face of the progress thats made. Work together to understand the statistics, realize that what where we are. Know that there is a difference and weve got somewhere to go on an achievement gap. But lets not denigrate a Public School system that serves 90 of our kids and that is making gains. Let us continue to make those gains and quite frankly, the cuts you have proposed is double speak. It is double speak. Im just going back to your words that are the nape study. There youve got and as i said, youve got more studies we leased in 2019 reached the same conclusions. Including a study showing how extra money for texas schools had a particularly strong impact on low income and hispanic students. Im going to share the studies with yourself and with your staff. And with the members of this subcommittee to take a look to see if, in fact, the data belies the direction that you are taking Public Education in this country. And my time has run out. Let me yield to my colleague. Thank you very much, madam chairman. As i said in my comments, madam secretary, im really excited about your pell grant proposal. And your additional investment in career and Technical Education. So ive got a couple of questions along those lines. What you actually say that we would give these grants to provide credentials in demand fields. Im interested to know what how would you define in demand . What would actually be covered . How would that work . Would all the programs that have lets say a duly recognized state, would that be covered . Or do you have some sort of selectivity in mind . Well, our proposal really seeks to work with congress to determine what the definition around those programs and the extent to which they would be a part of a shortterm pel program. I know it various by region. And i think it would behoove all of us to work closely with regions and states and to look at what those opportunities are. But we would look forward to working with congress to determine that and to really address these opportunities for students. I actually find certainly in my state honest quite often young people are not so young. Obviously you can be any age coming for additional technical training. They literally end up with jobs faster. Usually than somebody coming out of a fouryear education. And its quite often a very highpaying job. Believe me. When you need a plumber, you really need a plumber. You cant wait around. And so, again, i applaud that. We get a lot of questions about this. A lot of student who is go to facilities are comparatively low income and frankly just the cost of college or the idea of assuming the debt thats often associated with that to them doesnt make sense. This really does. So. Im glad you put it on the table. Want to go to an area where frankly we dont agree. Thats on the trio and gear up proposals that you have. Ive got a lot of trio students in my state. Weve historically been one of those states that really benefitted from that. We really benefitted from gear up. Frankly i never met a single student or instructor in these programs that didnt think they were worthwhile. I look at trio, for instance. Since its inception its produced over 5 million college graduates. I think a lot of those young people quite honestly would not have had the opportunity or the support structure to succeed in College Without troio or the preparation thats necessary. A lot of family where is nobodys gone to college before really are not in a very good position sometimes to counsel their own kids or prepare them. And you dont want to send them to college and not have them successful. I want them to get that degree. Not walk out of there with a few hours and thousands of dollars of debt. These programs seem to do that. And i used to have this problem with the last administration which i thought underinvested in these programs even though historically we were always doing race to the top or some new deal when we had a couple of programs here that i think have demonstrated their utility over time again and again. So explain to me again the advantages you would see in the consolidation and the movement to formula grants composed to competitive grants in this area. Thank you. And i totally agree that these programs are beneficial and effective for many. Our proposal does seek to essentially move gear up into the trio program. And block to the states. The reality is that most of the awardees for the trio program are consistent year after year after year. And its very difficult for any new program to break into it. We think that by allowing that would tell me we should put more money in trio. And thats certainly your prerogative, but i think coupled with our proposal to block grant the elementary and secondary Education Funding of the 29 different programs and again provide a lot more flexibility at the state and local level, the answer for one district might look quite different than an answer for the other district. Fair point. I think coupled, it would be a really powerful ive only got about 30 seconds left, so let me just quickly ask one other thing. I know youve historically been a great champion of Charter Schools. And i do worry not everybody shares that point of view. You know, i think if you block grant these to states, a lot of the money thats been set aside specifically for charters honestly is apt to be diverted into the public system particularly even though through the normal, you know, k through 12 system. Particularly when, you know, the overall amount of money is coming down. Lets concentrate within the k12 system. These are more experimental or these are a little bit more outside the quote, unquote stream. Ive gone over my time. Do you have that . There are a hundred im sorry. A million families on the wait list for chafrter schools acros the country. They i actually view our consolidation and block grant proposal as one that is additive and positive for charters. I talked with a number of governors about the block grant concept and theyre very excited about it. In states where they embrace this, theres going to be dramatic expansion. Im over my time, so i dont want the chairwoman to have to interrupt me. Ill interrupt myself. Thank you and id like to discuss this. Thank you for the indulgence. Congresswoman lee. Thank you very much. Thank you, madam secretary. Let me go right to this because theres still and this is increasing in terms of systemic injustices towards our black and latino students. First of all, you eliminated the 2014 School Discipline guidance to ensure studen students. Let me ask you about the proposal now, this is a double whammy. To combine the preschool children who received out of School Suspension with those who received more than one out of School Suspension. And your proposal to eliminate preschool data by race and ethnicity. Without this distinction, its going to be very difficult to understand whether and what extent this trend persists. The ability to track this data is critical. While black students now, you got to hear this and understand this. Black students make up 20 of preschool children. These are babies. Right . They represent 50 of suspended, again, babies. Preschoolers. Dont forget also that the education department, your own data in 2013 and 2014 found that black preschoolers, again babi s babies, are three times or more likely to receive an out of School Suspension than their white counterparts. In the last two years the subcommittee received language detailing School Discipline in all preschooling and k through 12 classrooms and to also include it in your 2020 budget jefgs. Here you are again without having submitted this data. We went through this last year. Although your budget request says you will brief us on your plan with a horrendous plan to significantly alter this Data Collection. So why do you plan to change the Data Collection so that it really and thats what its going to do. Its going to mask the trends for out of School Suspensions of preschoolers. And we should have solved this. And we shouldnt have to ask you once again for this data. So thats my first question. What in the world is going on and taking so long for us to get this report that we required you to submit for the last few years . And also, do you believe that black students are punished and suspended at greater rates than their white peers . Yes or no . The data shows this. And these are babies. Maam, i agree and love children as you do and want to ensure that all children have the opportunity to get a great education. We have been focused on answering and responding to all of your requests. But you havent done that. We will check on that specifically you said that last year, madam secretary. And what i know and what i am committed to is ensuring that all kids have an opportunity i understand that. Madam secretary, you tell us that every year. But what about black and latino kids . That is exactly my point no. Madam secretary, youre trying to mask this by saying youre not going to collect the data by race. How in the world can you say that you care about black and latino kids . The other report we asked you we asked you a detail on recommendations with regard to how to address adverse impacts of resegregation including designating title six school monitors to ensure every student has the opportunity for an equal education. Again, you said you were aware of this report, youd get it back to us as soon as possible. We still dont have this report. Weve tried and tried over and over again, madam secretary, to get these reports from your office. Theyre written into the bills. Theyre required. And youre just thumbing your finger at us. That is not the case. Well, it is the case. We are responsive. We have continued to be responsive where . To the many requests from congress. Madam secretary, on black and latino preschoolers, you have not been responsive. These are children who dont even get a head start. Because theyre kicked out of school. Before theyre even in kindergarten. Dont you think thats important . I think each one of them is important. And i care about each one of their futures. Thats why im suggesting we do things very differently than what weve been doing. This committee has asked you for this data. And instead of providing the data and reports youre now trying to mask it by saying youre not going to use race and ethnicity to even present the facts. So how can you sit there and say that . We ask you over and over and over again every year. I am committed to each of those children as you are. But youre not showing that. Could you submit wait a minute. Let me ask you about a report does not solve a childs problem. Wait a minute. Were asking madam secretary, were asking you for the report. We need the data to understand it. I would think youd want the data to understand it also. Thats all were asking for. This is basic. So why wouldnt we get the information that this committee has asked you for for two years about preschoolers being disproportionately suspended from preschool. These babies, these black babies. Lets talk about the lack of achievement when are we going to get the report . Lets talk about the lack of achievement and opportunity for so we cant ask you for these, madam secretary . I want to know madam secretary, are you just saying forget the reports . No, maam, im not. Then when do wu get it . I will check on when that report will be available. Both reports on School Resegregation and the suspension of black and latino kids. You told us this last year. A year has gone by. And its outrageous. Thank you very much. Thank you, madam secretary. Whats outrageous is that 25 of our children, of our eighth graders cant read at grade level passage. Thats outrageous. And youre right, money doesnt solve this problem. You know, i had the privilege of being invited to the 15th anniversary of the osp program at department of education where we met the parents. All they wanted was a better life, a better schooling for their children. Madam secretary, you know that 90 of those students who took advantage of that program are black students. The vast majority of the rest are latino students. So to somehow suggest that you as an advocate for programs like that dont care about black and latino just doesnt jive with the data. Thats right. Lets talk about the data. Significant progress on that, really . U. S. News and report about the last scores say across the board scores drop in math and reading for u. S. Students. It dropped. It didnt go up. There was no significant improvement. Uhhuh. And with regards to the disparity, its pretty clear the disparity has existed between the highest and lowest performers for 30 years consistently. Some people would suggest that repeating the same thing youre doing that doesnt work is insanity. Thats exactly what were doing in the united states. So im going to congratulate you on the suggestion for the education freedom scholarships. Now, i know its a bold idea to somehow believe should put parents in charge of the childrens education or maybe making their choice, because of course god knows we know better. Somehow some bureaucrat knows better, some academic sitting in some ivory tower knows better than the mother. Some of the mothers i saw at the department of education celebration who really knew what was better for their children and was not to be sent to the same poorly performing Public Schools because there was no competition. Let me tell you whats interesting in the nape scores. There was one jurisdiction in the country where actually the students performed better. Three out of four of the measurements. Washington, d. C. Because for 13 years before that test was taken washington, d. C. Instituted competition for a failing Public School system. And the academics go, oh, no, were going to compare the scores of the people, didnt go to the voucher schools, no, it didnt. Competition works and the education freedom scholarships will induce competition. Does a dollar for those scholarships come from the department of education budget . I think i saw it was the department of treasury budget . For education freedom scholarship, part of the department of this wouldnt take a dollar from Public Schools . No it would be voluntary contributions. What could be the possible opposition to voluntary contributions to a program, and i think i have the facts right, about threequarters of parents favor that idea . The idea of actually giving choice and fact that this, i see 68 of africanamerican, 82 of latino parents, specifically about the program, 83 of african, actually want that choice. Thats right. Why in the world would we deny it . Would you come up with any other reason other than teacher opposition . I see no reason to deny those kids that opportunity. Madam secretary, thank you for putting up with what you do, with what you put up with, to stand up for the idea that every child and as an educator for 30 years before i came to congress, for the idea that every child in america and every parent in america deserve a choice of where to get sent to school. If they are unfortunate enough to live in a gee grafbcall area or School District where their school is just plain lousy, they that should have the opportunity to go to a Charter School, or get a voucher, especially under the education freedom these are voluntary contributions to get a voucher to help those children go to a better school. I just dont understand the argument against it. I never will. Its about time we get raw politics out of education because its standing in the way. Because, you know, if you look at the statistics, yeah, there was improvement in the nape. We went from 31st to 30st in the last nape. In the world. It wasnt math or reading, i guess it was science. Thats pathetic. In the 21st century, we cant afford to be anything but first in the world, and i just want to congregatelate you on what you do to see to it that that could happen. I yield back. Thank you, congressman. Congressman. Thank you, very much, chair and madam secretary. Easier question, we have a 5letter last name is it devos . Devos. My name too. Secretary devos, thank you. I want to thank you for not having cuts to special education and not cutting the Special Olympics. The fourth time is a charm. Thank you. Happy Public Schools week. Im sure youre advocating around the country for schools this week. Thank you. We had a strong bipartisan resolution with 90 people including our Ranking Member. Proud of the Public Schools we have in this country. I want to pick up on where our Ranking Member started talking about Charter Schools. This is where we dont have as good information. First of all on academic performance we know on Charter Schools about 1 out of 6 does better. About half about the same. But 2 out of 6 perform worse. I think theres something even worse. You mentioned what we bought with the spending. When you look at Charter Schools there was a report that said one thousand Program Grants were given out by the department of education given to schools that never opened or later schools because of poor performance or fraud. Its actually worse than that, 2,100, 27 schools, that actually never opened or failed. Thats 40. 5 failure rate on Charter Schools. Thats an f grade when youre below 60 . And youre advocating for doing more fs or bs and maybe a few cs. But fs dont seem to be the grade we wand to advocate for. Also there was a school, the idea charter chain, that have been awarded about 200 million in federal funds. Over the years they got a 67 million grant, another luxury box. They purchased a property for one of their Board Members for 1. 7 million. I dont think eye School Board Member would sell their property there. Another board member got the commission on that on over millions of dollars. Only all of our public scrutiny about they back off a plan to lease a private jet for 2 million a year or six years. My question on this terrible sfalure, youre advocating for, yes or no, do you think Charter Schools who receive federal funding should be allowed to purchase jets . Its not a yes or no question. Actually it really is. Its the definition of a yes or no question. I have a few things to say about the things that you said. Can you answer my question please . I have a few things to say about what you said about Charter Schools. Reclaiming my time. Reclaiming my time. The report that you referenced has been totally debunked as propaganda. Fewer than 2 of the schools didnt open. I give you the curtsy of making sure i could may say your name correct. If youre asking me a question i need to have a chance to answer. Im asking you a question with a yes or no answer. If the secretary of education cant answer a yessor no i dont know why you should be secretary. Do you think federal funding should go to a school that uses it to buy a jet . Its a hypothetical question, obviously a no answer. Its an actual question. There is no funding going to Charter Schools that would even address Something Like that. Another yes or no, they should be able to put Charter Schools are Public Schools. Reclaiming my time. Recliming my time. Choosing them and there are a million families on the wait list to go to Charter Schools. Just talking over someone isnt an answer, just so you know. Yes or no often is when its asked in a yesorno format. We also know on the same group gave such incomplete information over three years, didnt report accurate, no information on performance data, would you think would you give your staff a paycheck if they didnt perform 84 of their tasks, yes or no . Of course not. But everything youre citing is debunked, ridiculous. So i dont accept the premise of your question. Its actually not. Let me ask you this. Do you think its odd when people think your family runs a charter, correct . Thats a yes or no . No. Your husband doesnt have a Charter Program . He founded a Charter School. So when people think you may have a conflict of twr because of that absolutely not. Ill let you not do a yes or no, however you want. I will respond in that my husband founded a Charter School which is Meeting Needs of students all over west michigan, and he is on the board, but he does not run the school. It is a organized as an notforprofit Charter School, and it is a Public School serving all comers. I think the fact that you couldnt answer yes or no when you look at this terrible rating, this is why people have a worry there could be a conflict. Youre wrong about Charter Schools. But 40 are closing down that youre giving grants to . That is not true. It was nothing but propaganda by an individual who has an in for Charter Schools. What percent are failing . I dont have a state youre the secretary of education and dont have this . You know this report is wrong . Charter schools are chartered by states, not by the federal government. You dmoe that that number is not right but dont have a correct number . What i know is parents and families are choosing to send their children to Charter Schools. Thats a yes or no, you dont know the answer . Parents and children are going by choice, and there are a million more families on Charter School waitlists. Thank you. Thank you, madam chair. I do want to say that i am very troubled by the tone of this hearing. And i feel like our secretary is being badgered. And i would ask the chair to consider that as we move forward. Because i feel its very unfortunate that weve come here to help meet the needs of our children, the nations children, and i think the tone of this hearing is very disappointing in that regard. And i also want to say, as a person whos familiar with the secretarys record, i dont know of a Single Person who has been more engaged in policies to help minority students across the country than this secretary from all of her work throughout her career. So im very disappointed right now, but i do want to talk about some of the priorities. And also, as someone whos been a former school administrator, a Charter School administrator and someone who chaired a state education budget, i will say that the focus that you have on helping people closest to the student, and who care most for the student, making decisions to me is the right direction. So i want to compliment you on that. I know the there are a lot of issues we could discuss. But i just want to say that at the outset. Theres a few specific things i wanted to ask you to talk about. First, the Second Chance pell. I think one of the high points of Congress Working with the administration has been to look at Prison Reform and help those who have been in prison come back into the community and contribute. I wondered if you could talk a little bit about your plans Going Forward . I know theres interest in Community Colleges in my area, and participating in this. But if you could talk briefly about the Second Chance pell program. Thank you, congressman. I think this is an area where there is actually broadspread support, and a lot of great evidence. Ive had opportunity to visit three different prisons and see students that have i visited tulsa Community College in prison in oklahoma last summer, and was just thrilled to see all of these mostly young men graduating with associates degrees, Certificate Program recognition, some of them completing their high school requirements. But it was a thrill to be there, and i think there is so much promise with this, making a Second Chance pell program a permanent one that is going to provide hope and opportunity for returning incarcerated individuals, and give them a really hopeful future. Wonderful. Thank you. And then i also wanted to talk with you, you mentioned preparing students for successful careers, and i know the federal work study proposals that you have really are aimed at inviting the private sector to participate more. And i understand theres 190 institutions that would be invited to participate in a pilot program. I know in one of my areas, Midmichigan College is interested in participating in that. Could you comment on that briefly . Well, we think theres a real opportunity to help students get much more relevant Work Experience while attending college and in a federal work study program. Instead of working in the college cafeteria, if they are doing student teaching, perhaps, or clinicals in a health profession, or perhaps its in a business that has a relevance with the program theyre taking in their college, we think extending this opportunity and helping students get really relevant almost apprenticeshiplike experience while theyre in school studying is an important step in the direction of helping students succeed. Thank you. Also i think as parents, everyone is concerned about the higher cost of college education. When you see that the debt that students are taking out and then just the burden that places on them in the future, can you comment about just what the administration can do to help alleviate the high cost of education but also Student Loan Debt . This is a huge issue. Im not sure ive got enough time. Ill start with a couple of things. We have taken important steps, administratively to add a lot of light to what students can access through the college scorecard, and now students can go and go to look up an institution and then go down to the field of study or program, find out what its going to cost to attend that program and complete, and then importantly what their firstyear earning potential is after that. They can compare between schools, programs within schools, and this is going to, i think, help them be more discerning pro expectatively. I also think its going to help schools look more critically of what theyre offering and the what the realities are of what theyre offering. Perhaps its going to prompt some changes at higher ed institutions. And that is one way, bringing light to what has been a very murky kind of a reality, and so thats one way weve taken a step. Another way weve put the fafsaw form on the my student aid mobile app. Were continuing to add more and more information for students to model what their debt and Student Loan Debt would mean, and how they could pay off and have realtime information for that right on their app. And were going to be continuing to add more and more to give them more tools for financial literacy. Thank you. And thank you, madam chair. Can i just say if indulgence of this subcommittee. Id like to address congressman molinar your comments if i can. I have a great deal of respect for you and your work on this subcommittee. I think what you are hearing is a level of frustration about very, very important issues. And the two issues that have been addressed in a strong way when we cannot get reports. We are an appropriations committee. We put in a bill that required the department of education to get us reports on the data with regard to babies being expelled from preschool. We dont have that report, nor was there an answer as to when we would get that report. Thats a level of frustration. You would experience that as well. Further, with regard to Charter Schools, may i add that we held a hearing last year on Charter Schools. The oig raised issues that we need to examine including findings that states mismanaged Charter School closures and that the department failed to provide adequate guidance or oversight on the issue. We are the appropriations committee. We have appropriated serious money, more than 400 million last year alone. We need to conduct oversight. And so theres a level of frustration, and i night might add, when you can say about Charter Schools that gods in his heaven, all is right with the world, and you cannot do a serious evaluation of which ones work and which ones dont work, that means that the department is not doing the evaluation that we need to hear about. So wherein lies the frustration, congressman . Sure, please. I completely respect that and i what i heard the secretary say is she will find out the information on the report. And get back to the committee. And i think any secretary deserves that courtesy to get. And on this Charter School, i would just ask the chair to consider that Charter Schools, many have different missions. Some Charter Schools have the mission of educating adjudicated youth. And so the idea that were going to start comparing, you know, High Standard education with educating adjudicated yoigt and evaluate them the same, thats very different. I think this committee would be well served to look at the unique Charter Schools. I would also say to you that not our information but the office of the Inspector General at a public hearing that we had in this room last year claimed that there were serious difficulties. We have to look at that. We have to ask the department about that. So i, again, theres may i sure. Were a little off topic here. Thank you for the indulgence. Look, i have to speak up in defense of my member. I think mr. Molinar was right to say what he said. I dont have a problem with that. I have zero problem because i agree. We asked for a report. We ought to get it. Nothing wrong with that. With he have some tough questions about Charter Schools, nothing wrong with that. But anything that thinks the tone was appropriate tort the sl secretary, it was not. We had a lot of people for four years when i was the chairman of this committee that i didnt agree with. I dont think i ever addressed anybody the way i heard the secretary addressed ever. And i dont think any of my members did. Thats what i think the concern is about. That is a result of the frustration that people are feeling here, and quite frankly, to my friend, there have been members of your side of the aisle who have addressed folks who have come before this committee with a very big lack of respect. That doesnt say its right. But what we want to do is get through the frustration. We need to get answers. We are an appropriations committee. This is a serious amount of money that we are looking at. And there are deep concerns as to the direction of Public Education in this country. And if, you know ill say i agree there are deep concerns. I respect the frustrations. Theyre real. Thats part of lenglating. But its a little bit different in terms of how we treat our witnesses. Thank you very much, madam chairman. I appreciate it. It applies to both sides of the aisle as you know. It does on occasion. Thank you, madam chair. And thank you, madam secretary for being here. I promise to apply a combination of midwest nice [ laughter ] and a little bit of former investigative background. Interesting conversation. Thank you for being here. We are in the middle of a Public Health crisis, not just the coronavirus but youth vaping. And my folks in education back home asked that i call it ooerks skrets because they think vaping makes it sound nicer than it is. So i will say e skrecigarettes. But the numbers show that back in 2011 we had 1. 5, 1. 5 of our High Schoolers were doing ecigarettes. Now were at 27. 5 . About a third are now doing this. We just alarming. Thats why i call it an epidemic. At junior high in middle school, we are now at about 10. 5 of our middle schoolers. I couldnt believe these numbers when i learned these. We did a series of round table decisions in my Congressional District in down state illinois. And the one that really just alarmed me was that we had a School Resource officer said that there was third graders that were doing this. Third graders. This is easy to hide. They can put it in watches. They can put it in clothing. They can do it on these fake jump drives. So theyre doing this. And thats why we wrote a piece of legislation out of my office called the resources to prevent youth vaping. It is part of a bill that we package of bills that well be voting on on the floor tomorrow. And so what i wanted to ask you, i promise im bringing this totally into your department. Wondering if the department of education is coordinating with the centers for Disease Control and prevention to make sure that we have information that we can get out to our parents, make sure that we have resources that the teachers know about, that the School Nurses know about, and just wondering if theres any kind of coordination going on with your department in the centers for Disease Control and prevention . Thanks for that question. I know that there have been participation and task forces. Id be happy to check on the extent to which those are happening and get back with you on that. Yeah. If you could work with our office and make sure we are aware of this. I think its really just a commitment on your part. We were just with secretary azar yesterday, but i think working together will just be absolutely critical to help address this. Again, it is a Public Health epidemic that is impact be our students, children. I think that would be great. Switching gears. Lois frankel was saying im guessing youre going to ask something about illinois. I stay pretty focused on my own Congressional District. Really, really severe Teacher Shortage thats happening all over the country. In the Congressional District that i represent, were 14 counties, and we have seen the Teacher Shortage problem actually increase over the last year. Actually increase by about 20 that were seeing now. So in 2019, there were 195 teacher vacancies in these 14 counties that i represent. Now there are 235. Thats over the last year. This problem is getting worse, not better. I know in the president s budget, just a few things i want to point out for the record that are concerning to me. The Public Service loan forgiveness fund has a proposed cut of 50 million. Teacher Quality Partnership Quality Grant Program has a proposed cut of 50 million. The funding of the supporting effective educated Development Grant po prosed cut of 80 million. Supportive instruction state grants cut of 2. 1 billion. Can i just interject . A number of programs that youve cited are the ones that we have proposed to include in the block grant, and would actually be very appropriate in your case and in your district if there is a drastic shortage, the district could the districts could target more of those resources and have the flexibility to use more of them for programs that would address the Teacher Shortage issue, teacher retension, teacher development, and give them a lot more flex inlt than the current scenario. Talk me through then, if you could, if the 17 seconds we have left, talk me through about how specifically so youve got the block grant proposal 37 this is a mostly rural district i represent, 7,000 square miles, a lot of smaller schools. How will these block grants help specifically recruit, retain and fill all of these vacancies in a very, very rural Congressional District . What it would do is allow for the districts to prioritize what portions of these 29 different programs would be most effective and most important for the needs in their district, to meet the needs of the most disadvantaged students. And it would allow them, again, to personalize and prioritize where those needs lie, more specifically than the approach of having 29 different programs, all with their own rules, all with their own regulations. These would be block granted to the state, and then 90 of them would go out directly to the districts under the title one accountability and formulation. So all of the accountability provision is there but much more flexibility for every district to be able to target the resources where they need the most. Ill yield back the time that i dont have left. Thank you. [ laughter ] congresswoman herera. Thank you for being here. The first thing i wanted to mention, and we talked about this a little bit, i have a few questions so im going to try and bang on through them. The practice of seclution and restraint. Weve talked about this before, of special ed students, i think is extremely detrimental to these young people. And the stories ive heard are, theyre horrific. What issed administration doing to stop the practice and ensure all students are treated with respect . Thanks, congresswoman. As we talked about, we have an initiative going proactively through all 12 of our Regional Office for civil rights offices to bring light to this subject, to ensure that schools and districts and states know what their responsibilities are, what the law is, and to really make sure that they are doing right on behalf of kids. And so this was a Prospective Initiative conducting audits and also conducting a lot of pro active informational sessions to ensure that schools know what they should be doing or not doing. And some of it as i hear is a lack of reporting. Is there any enforcement motorcyclenism . Say youve been doing the education and a lot of them should know by now what the rules are around this. What type of Enforcement Mechanisms do you have or do you not have any and what should we be doing to make sure schools are adhering . Where there are infringements on students rights and a request for investigation, we are investigating. And i think thats where the important piece comes on the followup. But we think and we hope that again proactively taking this initiative and bringing more light to this subject is going to bring about laudable results in terms of reporting and in terms of actual activity and action. Thank you. One of the things i hear a lot about from educators at home in southwest washington is lack of resources to address Mental Health needs. This is probably the top issue i hear about. Its actually more i hear about the mental and Emotional Health of the students more than i hear about math achievement, reading achievement. This is its ground zero. These educators are doing everything they can but these kids are coming in with a whole set of challenges that generations before them seem to have navigated or navigated differently. Who knows . But these kids, a lot of them are in real distress. What is or can the department do to help . This is not in anybodys scope. This is not in our scope of practice, but this is the reality of where the kids are at right now. A couple things i would say. First of all, i think our proposal to block grant to the states and then ultimately the local districts, all of these different programmatic funds would allow each district to the dress this issue in the way they prioritize. If this is indeed the most important issue for their most vulnerable students, that would allow them the flexibility to tap into more of those higher percentage of those resources than otherwise through the formula or through the programmatic approach. So they would be able to maybe hire like an inschool Mental Health counselor for example . If thats what ive heard requests for that or sros. Some of our funds are flexible, some arent. If they use money they can use it for this or that . Thats why i think the block grant proposal is transformative in that way because it would allow for allt uses of those programs. But for them to prioritize the dollars in a way thats really going to meet the needs of the most disadvantaged kids in their district. Is there an administrative saifgzu savings . I think we send everybodys tax dollars back, and every headquarters skims off the top and sends back a lesser amount . Yes, i think ultimately there would be. And i think importantly that flexibility at the state and local level would really allow those closest to the students to target the resours in the ways that are going to be most reasoningful freason meaningful with the kids they seek to serve. I would like to see the Department Support the running kids. I just wanted to say thank you for the increase and focus on career and Technical Education. We should not sell students down the river that you have to go to a four year liberal arts school and thats what success is. We all know that is not the only definition of success. I know a lot of people who are happy and fulfilled, have good living wage jobs with full benefits, able to provide for their families on a career and technical type of education. So thank you for the emphasis on that. The president and myself and this administration are committed to advancing that and supporting multiple pathways for adult success. Thank you. Yield back. Congresswoman clark. Thank you, madam chair, and thank you, secretary devos for being with us today. I want to go back to a topic explored by my colleagues, congresswoman lee. Do you think that the disparity and discipline for preschoolers of color could indicate a racial bias . I suppose it certainly could. And again, i think the bigger issue here is that we make sure that every child has the opportunity to pursue an education that is going to unlock and unleash their personal and fullest potential. Okay. Isnt it, over, the official policy now of the department of education that the cause of this disparat rates that we see of students of color is explained by the fact that these children are just inhairnlt predisposed to misdebehave and disrupt the chas room more than white children . Isnt that your policy . No. That is the conclusion of the research you cited in your School Safety report of 2019. Congress specifically asked you to strike all reference todays this report, which interestingly appeared in the journal of criminal justice. Your official response within this budget is that you stand by this report and its conclusions, isnt that right . Congresswoman, do you have a quo about the budget . Because were here yes. Were here to talk about the zblu budget . You sponned that quote, the department of education stands by this report that says children of color are just more inherently inclined to misbehaif and that explains the disparat rates of discipline . I dont know where that would have fallen on our budget nashu narrative. We will get you that exact section. Its right in your budget. I dont see any other way to interpret this, as your new policy, because then you went on and eliminated the Data Collection that could help us solve this problem. Because you dont see a problem, because you have adopted as the policy that this is just a racebased problem . In fact congresswoman, the crdc question, Data Collection questions are open for Public Comment now. They have not been concluded. And if you do have a this is what you propose to no longer collect if you have input we would be happy to take that. We would like you to go ahead, undo what you put in your budget, strike this racist research, make sure its Crystal Clear that you do not buy into this theory that children of color are disciplined because of who they are and that they come to school with disruptive tendencies. That is what you put in your official report. In your budget you say you stand by it. Lets move on. I want to give you a chance to correct the record, because i think weve had some testy exchanges in the past. In 2018, you agreed that private and Religious Schools receiving federal funding would have to have nondiscrimination policies. But i think i browbeat into that answer. Is there any requirement that private and Religious Schools must have nondiscrimination policies under your efs Voucher Program . The education freedom Scholarship Program, first of all, is a tax credit. They are not is there any nondiscrimination . I did not see it in your Budget Proposal . And the reality is that every student that would take advantage of an education freedom scholarship would be protected. Their civil rights are protected. That is true of students no matter where they are in whatever school. But i am correct, you do not have that nondiscrimination requirement in your Budget Proposal . The Budget Proposal is part of treasurys budget, and its only mentioned in our budget. But you agreed that it would, but its not there. In september you visited a Religious School in harrisberg, that is a private institution, allowed to do what they do. They have policies that trans jerntd children can be expelledor denied admission based on that status. They also have different tuition rates depending on the religion of the children. My question to you is, if pennsylvania adopted your Scholarship Program, your Voucher Program, would this school be eligible for federal funding with these policies in place . Maam, i need to correct you on the nature of the ed skaigs freedom scholarship proposal. It is a federal tax credit that would be the recipient of volunteering are you saying can i finish . We are out of time. I want to be clear. I want to make sure that you have full understanding of what the proposal is. I understand tax credits are federal funding. No, theyre not. Yes, they are. Because they are voluntary contributions in advance of paying your taxes to the federal government. They are direct contributions to 501 c 3 charitable designations. We are out of time. Im going to leave you with this. You said in your testimony you wanted to expand educational freedom for students. I certainly hope that making these inherently discriminatory policies part of the department of education is not what you meant by that statement. We dont discriminate against anyone. At any time. Congresswoman frankel. Im going to follow up. Thank you for being here. Appreciate it. I want to follow up on these voucher questions. So because i was just trying to calculate in my head, because for me, i think this is a program for wealthy people to get free private school, because my understanding of a tax credit is you actually if you owe 10,000 in taxes, and you under your scenario, and you pay lets say 10,000 for a private school, then you owe no taxes. Is that right . No, congresswoman, can i interject . No. That is a misunderstanding of the proposal. Explain so we know. Its voluntary contra butions from individuals or businesses to five 01c3 scholarship granting organizations that would then give scholarships to families as defined by the state that decides to participate. And in most states where there are education Freedom School Choice Programs, they are geared and targeted to primarily low income families, many times also students with disabilities, and they are programs for students who are most vulnerable and most disadvantaged. And so it would be individuals who choose to help other students and other families who would voluntarily make those contributions. It is not a program for people of wealth. Okay. People of wealth already have choices. Correct. People of power already have choices. Right. All of these policies are designated for and are targeted toward individuals and families who dont have that power. Okay. Let me who are assigned to schools not working for them. I want to reclaim my time to follow up on representative clarks question. Is there anything in your proposal that requires nondiscrimination . For example, can they can somebody keep a gay student out . Or can they discriminate on the bicis of a religion . The key with School Choice is families and students voluntarily choose the place that works and fits for them. I want to understand this. They can choose to go to a school that only allows a certain religion or a certain gender or a certain race, is that correct . Many schools have unique missions. Different missions. The answer is yes. Thank you. I answered it for you. Okay. So i have another question. I think coming out soon is a new rule on that in reference to title 9 on Sexual Harassment and violence is that soon . I expect. You probably know there is a lot of concern from folks about what this is going to mean, because, you know, all the statistics so forth show that theres still a lot of Sexual Violence on campuses. And theres a lot of concern that your new rule is going to actually discourage victims from coming forward. I theres one particular point that i do want to ask you about, and maybe you can just clarify it, because i cannot i dont understand it from i read that rule. Its so long. Under the proposed rule alleged harassment must occur within the schools own program or activity. So my question is whether or not that would cover offcampus, for example, frat houses . Would it pertain to online Sexual Harassment . . Well, maam because the rule is not yet finalized nor published i cant comment on it. It would not be appropriate to comment or yeah, youre going to ask a first question and then youre going to ask another. Its not appropriate to comment. The rule is not yet final. So is the rule as you understand pro posed, as its prose posed, it is going to cover for example a Sexual Assault at a frat house thats off campus or Online Harassment and bullying . Again, i cannot comment on specifics of the rule. Okay. My final question is, you know, we just read that japan is closing all its schools because of the coronavirus. So id like to know what plans you are making in regards to coronavirus . Good question. Ive convened a task force within the department and have asked my deputy secretary mic ace. Make sure we have our continuance policies and every plan in place for work in and through the department. We continue to work with the other agencies to ensure we are prepared to respond and react and do as we should. Okay. Depending on im happy to hear youre doing that. I hope you will keep us informed. And i yield back. Congresswoman watson, do you want i can have congresswoman lowy go first this first round if thats what you want to do. I would. I just need a moment. Congresswoman lowy. Thank you. I mentioned the full Service Community schools before. I think that they are so critical to bringing together health, social support, family, community engagement, Early Childhood opportunities, to really help students and their families thrive. Yet you propose eliminating dozens of k through 12 programs including community schools. We came together on a bipartisan basis in this congress to authorize the full Service Community School Program in 2015 because we know its value in the district. First of all id like to know, have you ever visited a full Service Community school . I visited many schools. Maybe one of them has been termed that. But congresswoman or chair woman, if i could just say, its inaccurate that we have proposed eliminating these programs. We have proposed rolling them all up into a block grant. And i think your example of the schools that youve cited and admire is exactly why we should consider the block grant proposal, because it would allow schools and districts in your state to actually expand on those and target those resources in that direction if thats the right answer for the students in that district or in that region. It would give a lot more flexibility to states and communities, not eliminating anything, but putting it in one big pool. With less money . Well, the request is at the level that it is, you are the aprop rater. Youll stayed at what level to fund. Not that level. I think the important thing is the policy here. And the proposal, the policy proposal, is to put all of those programs together in one block grant that would then allow the most local level, those closest to the students, to target the resources, to meet the needs of the kids that are most vulnerable in that School District thats going to meet their needs. However youre decreasing the amount of money in the pot, so that youre making schools really compete against each other for these dollars. So im hoping as we go through the budget, you will increase those dollars so we can sustain programs like this. And i think youd be interested in visiting some of them, those schools. Id be happy to give you a tour if you come up to westchester. Thank you. Now afterSchool Program, your budget eliminates funding for afterSchool Programs . No, it includes it in the block grant. So, youre decreasing the pot of money, and putting everything in the putting it all into a block grant to allow for flexibility at the local School District level. But if youre cutting the budget well again, youre the aprop rater. You decide at what level to fund it. But i think the important thing is the proposal to put all of them together in a block grant and allow for states and local districts to make decisions on which what programs are most effective and what is going to work best to meet the needs of the most vulnerable students in that district. With less money. I get it. But let me just say this, because i think its important and you probably know it. The amount of federal funds going to gidistricts is usually about 10 . Its actually less than 5 . Probably about 9 of the budget. Its less than 5. Youre saying putting all these programs in a pot, decreasing the fund, everything is going to be fine. But i think thats where we have a real disagreement. Youre saying were the aprop raifrts. But if you are the secretary of education, your opinion is valued. And it dispoints me that you would take all these good programs, say put them in a pot, and then okay, decrease the dollars. But well move on, because its almost completed. Did anyone ask this one . Okay. [ laughter ] sorry. There are a couple of hearings going on. I understand. I think i was in the hold room in the other one. Yes. Okay. Now another Favorite Program of mine, maybe this is in the pot too, but i think its really worth your seeing, is the c campus program. More than one in five College Students is a parent, those with a young child accessing child care on campus can really make all the difference. And the struggle to get good child care is a reality frankly for a growing number of College Students. Not every college campus, i have to get to the question oh, yeah. Sorry about that. What do you think . Are you aware of the i am aware of it. And i know what our Budget Proposal has advanced. But i also know that the health and Human Services budget really contains the block you know, the increased funding around child care. This is certainly a priority of the administration. And we believe that those programs through hhs would definitely be able to meet the needs of the program youve cited as well. Well, im out of time. Let me just say if the 3 million cut youve proposed were to take place, programs like this would disappear, because the locals have the major responsibility, and our work is invaluable and our money is invaluable in supporting their efforts. Oh, thats did i say that . 38 million cut. Thank you so much. Hhs has the bulk of the child care Budget Proposal fund, and thats where the administration has put the priority around chile care. And let me just say if youre going back to the transportation, i like the color better in here. Its a really pretty green on the wall. Well take it into consideration, put pictures up. I was so busy focusing. Congresswoman watson. Thank you, very much, madam chairman, and thank you, secretary devos. Im going to ask you a couple of questions regarding the reduction estimate in our children under your proposed budget. Im really concerned about the achievement gap as well as you are, and i just maybe dont agree with our approach to it. The achievement gap that you talk about exists i think in part because schools lack equitable discipline guidance in addition to other resources, and students of color are disproportionately targeted for discipline and kept out of schools which prevents learning. Further theres a gross lack of accountability in ensuring the School Districts live up to the mission. Lets talk first about the discipline piece. Just this week a 6yearold girl in florida was arrested and taken from her school even though School Officials maintained they did not want the girl arrested. This is an alltoocommon issue for our black children. According to the civil rights Data Collection, black k through 12 students are nearly four times as white kids to receive out of School Suspensions. Theyre nearly twice as likely to be expelled from School Without Education Services compared to their white counterparts. This data is disconcerting because students who were suspended or expelled for disciplinary violation were almost three times as likely to be in contact with the juvenile Justice System in the next year. How do we reconcile this disparity with the percentage of population black students represent yet the percentage of discipline . And given that you have rescinded the guidance that was intended to give the school tools to break the school to prison pipeline, i hope thats what it was intended for, what are your plans to ensure the schools are safe and dont punish or discriminate children . Bottom line, what kind of resources do you envision of providing through your request to schools to address this issue . Congresswoman, thank you for that question, and you cited up at the top your concern about the achievement gap, and i share that concern, and have shared that concern for the threeplus decades that i have been working to change policy to free up children who havent been able to achieve because much being stuck in a school that doesnt work for them. And you i think you may have misstated when you said you dont agree. You dont agree with our approach, meaning your approach . I too dont agree with your approach with continuing to do the same thing with more and more resources and expect a different result. Thats why our proposal has suggested taking all of virtually all of the elementally and sectary funding from the federal level and block granting it to the states, and then they in formula to the local districts to allow for the greatest amount of flexibility to directly address the needs of the students in that district and in that school. And i think that this is an important part excuse me. Did that include alternatives to a public option . No. This would be the funding from the federal government for all of the elementary and secondary education programs, and it would be granted to the states and form laeed out under the title one, so 90plus percent going to like local districts. It it would free up tons of hours, literally 225 years of time in complying with and writing reports and allow them to target the resources directly to the kids who need it most. I certainly agree that teachers are required to do a lot of paperwork, thats just takes time away from their teaching. I want to talk to you about Something Else that concerns me in the budget, which i this is a reflection of our values or yours or the president s values. The budget eliminates 41 programs and cuts no, it doesnt. It takes them all and puts them into the block grant and allows flexibility at the state and local level. Its not eliminating them. So it is 29 of them. It is putting more programs in one box with a limited amount of money, asking them to already compete with one another for no. They wouldnt be competing. They wouldnt be competing. Their farmla granted out. 90 lets talk about the trio program. Talk to me about the trio program. Oh . All right. Im sorry, i cant hear you. [ muted ]. Sure. We have proposed combining the trio and gearup functions in the trio program. And again, coupled with the flexibility that the block grant for the other 29 programs would afford state and local districts if there is more desire to be spent in the area of what the trio programs are doing, it would allow again more personalization for the students that are closest for those closest to the students in each School District. All right. I seek unanimous consent to enter testimonials from our students in the trio program which has been so vitally important which i think is not getting the appropriate attention that it should. Thank you, madam secretary. I think in a bipartisan way there is agreement on your comment in both, so we will put that information into the record. Were going to do another round, but its two minutes so that we can move quickly. I might add, if you have not seep video of this 6yearold child being put in handcuffs, pleading, pleading, for not to have handcuffs, that is a official of what my colleagues are talking about which is happening to particularly africanamerican kids and kids of color in preschool. Sobbing, not to be put in handcuffs at 6 years old. Anyway, i just a quick question. The crediting counsel accrediti independent colleges and schools, acics lost its accreditation, 2016, demonstrated extraordinary Compliance Standards below the retirements. Reinstated it, in financial peril, lost its accredited institutions, not recognized by the counsel for Higher Education, uncovered by usa today, accreditedry gan university and students and alumnae. What are they doing to make sure students are not duped by colleges for profit. Will you consider reversing your decision to reinstate . Chair woman, i was troubled reading that piece as well and have directed an investigation ensue to see whats going on there. I was not happy to read that. You will be willing to we have an investigation launched and were on it. And decision to reinstate. I thank you for that. I tell you what i will do. Thank you very much. We have very little time. Thank you for your time you made your position very clear and its wellknown. What would happen to the money so far is my concern. I have enormous sympathy for you in terms of this whole student loan problem and commend you for trying to think way different ways to deal with that. In full disclosure i was not happy when we moved away from the Loan Guarantee approach. We sort of kept this out of your bailiwick and we have really saddled you with an enormous problem and underresourced it for a number of years. Im not sure we have the power to do much here. Its really an authorizing function, i think, for the most part. I am very curious what youre doing now to try and combat this. I know youre doing some Technology Thing and like to know what your efforts are. If you would like to expand longer term what you think the ideal solution would be. We sort of put the federal government on the hook in a way i dont think we ever should have. We turned this into an extraordinary political issue president ial candidates kick around. I would like to get the department out of the middle of this crossfire if there is some of way to do it Going Forward. Your thoughts would be most welcome. Sure. As i mentioned earlier, its a very large and complex issue. We spend a lot of times talking about the loan and debts students are taking on not as much time challenging why the cost of Higher Education continues to skyrocket. Theres a lot of theory around that. Our Budget Proposal does suggest capping off the amount that graduate students can take out in Student Loans through the federal government and capping out the amount that importantly that parents can take. We know that there have been all too many parents that have taken out loans greater than they are able to really afford and Social Security being garnished as a result. Graduate students, we have over yeah thank you very much. First, to my colleagues on the other side. Let me say this to you. I appreciate your comments. When many of us started Public Schools, schools were segregated, we could not go to Public Schools. Got it . In 2017, we asked the secretary to submit a report about the resegregation of our Public Schools. To date, that report has not been submitted. I cannot be nice when i ask about this. This is serious for our black and brown students, an many of us understand the role of the federal government in desegregation of Public Schools. Madam secretary, let me ask you about the budget as it relates to expanding pell grants for incarcerated students. You said you supported that. I cant find in your budget request any line item for that. Have you estimated how much it would cost and do you plan to request funding for this . We have made the request to have congress consider permanent expansion because its not a program other than a pilot through the department. Currently, there isnt a specific piece of budgetary guidance to suggest with it. So what do we need to do to get you to do that, to submit a line item for us . I think Congress Needs to act and make Second Chance pell a program. We have to authorize it. Okay. Its currently just and Experimental Program through our authorities and the department. Okay. We will work on that. Let me ask you about hbcus because this budget doesnt increase funding for hbcus except those in the opportunity zones which leaves out about 50 of the hbcus. Let me ask you about that. We know the president has touted his support for hcbus and we see a budget that level funds for historically black colleges. I would just say that is definitely indication of continued support for the Important Role hbcus play. 50 wont be included in this. But the level funding for the remainder of the hbcu related programs is also an indication of the priority we have placed on that, and then in 150 million plus up for hbcus and other minority serving institutions, for stem related programs in opportunity zones, which opportunity zones are all across the country in rural and urban areas. I know. Thank you, madam secretary. Thank you again, madam secretary and madam chair, without objection i move to include the may 2019 Harvard Kennedy school poll and next poll into the record. Good. Madam secretary, lets just clear up something about these education freedom scholarships. Just like when i write a check to my church every week, its taxdeductible. Im assuming my chaurch is using, something religious associated with it. The idea of having some tax preference for someone who actually has a religious bent is not a new concept, is that right . Thats correct. Thank you. Let lets talk about the may 20th poll about vouchers for minority students. All that sampled approved it. The most interesting thing ashamed republicans only have 44 and democrats, 52 . The reason democrats prefer it more because africanamerican democrats have 70 approval for lowincome vouchers and hispanic democrats, 67 . Thats right. Now, the fact of the matter is that these parents, these the people who actually are most concerned with their childrens education outcome actually want lowincome vouchers. I would suggest its a soft bigotry of low expectations, that somehow were not going to provide it to them because we know better. To quote a candidate who is now the president , i have a suspicion that a lot of those parents are asking themselves the question, what do i have to lose . I yield back. Congressman. Thank you very much, madam chairman. Thank you again. I will try to channel my energy on moulinar, who always has grace in his demeanor. I am a product of Public Schools and grew up in a lower class neighborhood. Recently we sold my aging moms house for 115,000. People like me got where we got because of Public Education. Im very passionate about Public Education. In many of these schools because they discriminate as a gay kid i wouldnt have been able to go to, i would have been beat up. I take that personal. May i comment to that. I also am very passionate about Public Schools. Im passionate about all schools, all schools that serve kids and are good fits for kids and what comes before schools. If i could ask you in one minute left. What are we doing to go after those tax dollars we lost gone to those failed Charter Schools, the ones that havent opened or failed. Are we doing anything . That report has been totally debunked. There are failed schools. Its riddled with inaccuracies. This is the frustration when i ask a question, dont answer a different one it. Is 1. 5 of the total number of schools that didnt open and i will be happy to get back with you. I will be happy to look into that further and get back with you on the disposition of those. I accept that as an answer. Thank you very much. Followup on the for profit colleges. I know you got rid of a program in the Obama Administration that protected students who had these failed colleges on their loans. 18 states have had to sue the department of education about this loan forgiveness. A federal judge recently said the department of education was not following that order and was fined 100,000. I guess my question is what are we doing to collect those payments . Are we still collecting payments from defrauded students and are we going to try to take care of those students . Every student that has filed whats called a borrow defense claim was put in forbearance at that time, like when i got to my job, there was no process, and i said, its going to take a while to figure out the process, lets make sure these students arent incurring any more interest, arent having to pay anymore on their student loan as long as their claims are in process. That has been the case on all of those claims that are not yet closed. Now, weve been stymied a couple of steps along the way by procedural rulings in court. Were still waiting for the ninth district to rule on a methodology. Nothing pain mess more than not able to resolve those completely. Thank you, madam chair and again thank you maurmd secreta for being here. I want to talk to you about the block grants, an important concept hard to get our hands around. If i understand what youre saying is, youre taking some of the federally mandated spending programs, consolidating it together into a Flexible Spending Program that states and local School Districts are going to have the ability to determine. So, for instance, if one local community said they wanted to focus on School Safety, they could use those funds for that . Correct. If one said, hey, we think career and College Counseling should be part of it, they could use it for that . Correct. Mental health counselors, my colleague mentioned, you can use it for needs identified on the ground people are saying, this is really what our School District needs. Recalling most of these programs, including and especially title i were created to really help the most disadvantaged students. I go back to my Opening Statement where i said a trillion spent over the last 40 years to close the achievement gap hasnt closed one bit, has opened in many cases for lots of kids, particularly the low end of the spectrum. Lets do something different. Lets allow for that flexibility to translate down to the local level so they can target those dollars where the students need it most. Thank you. Then, in terms of a dollar amount. I know whenever were talking budgets, people are upset about different spending levels, ultimately, your point is congress is going to determine what spending level is in that. Correct. Yes. The administration has advanced this Budget Proposal. The important part, the policy part here about the block grant i think is the really important piece to consider. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you, madam chair. To followup, your last statement to me is we do not discriminate against children, is that correct . We uphold all of the laws of this land. Yes. If were operating on a nondiscrimination basis, which i think is the absolutely appropriate role for you to take, i hope that you will rescind, on page e 8 of the safe School Citizen education fy 21 budget request, where you said you stand by that racist research, i will look forward to you reversing course from that position in your budget. We can have a long discussion about tax credits and treasury. I understand tax credits. You and i disagree apparently that tax credits are federal funding, but will you, as secretary of education, who has just said you will not allow children to be discriminated by race, religion, transgender status, sexual orientation, will you guarantee to me, to the children of this country at the however funded this program that is in your budget, that is 5 billion of taxpayer money, when it is rolled out in states, will you guarantee that every Single School will have a Nondiscrimination Policy in order to qualify for that . Congresswoman, this is not proposed to be a federal program, this is proposed to be a federal tax credit. That doesnt will you guarantee. Let me finish. The legislation is specifically for states to create programs that are going to meet the needs of the most vulnerable and needy students in their state. Were right back to where we are. We are right back to the reality of the fact that this program is to be implemented and designed at the state level, voluntarily contributed to by federal taxpayers. So im going to be clear, that you have corrected the record, when you said to me, you as secretary of education, would insure that this program would only go to schools with nondiscrimination policies, that is no longer your stance, this is a states choice, that you will not do that as secretary of education . Maam, may i just suggest youre mixing up and youre not staying clear on the purpose of this program which is to help students get a great education in a place that fits for them. To say you would stand up for kids is appalling and you really should resign. Congresswoman herrera butler. Thank you, madam chair. I would love to have a little bit more clarification on the opportunity scholarship, or the federal freedom opportunity Choice Program because i do want to make sure its on the record very clearly, whether its a new program, whether its federal funding and whether there are strings attached, and actually, too, whether by somehow, i recognize its treasurys program, is there some way this is not under the laws of the land . Our civil rights, Constitutional Rights somehow abridged with starting this program . Let me respond to that directly first, no our civil rights are not abridged in any way period. Its not a new program to be administered at the federal level, nearly a vehicle to effectively and efficiently get voluntary contributions azided by states that choose participate, with the idea that theyre going to turn around and create one or more programs that are going to specifically address the needs of k12 students in their state. No more than giving money to planned parenthood, which is a 5013c or your church, which is taxexempt, this is no more federal funding than correct. Because churches arent federal funded, right . I think theres a pretty big divide there. Oh, its going down, is it going up or down . The other thing i wanted to ask about, are there opportunities in the department with regard to encouraging students who participate in dual credit programs like running start . Thats one way i think we will help them with their college starts. Our proposal is to dramatically increase funding for career and Technical Education. I think importantly this comes at a time states are writing their perkins 5 programs. And ive been visiting states that have fledgling dual Enrollment Programs and many want many more to expand them dramatically. I expect that will be a growing reality and certainly those places being forward leaning and recognizing opportunities for their students are going to get that right. Congresswoman frankel. Thank you. I will follow up on miss clarks question. First of all, one of my colleagues compared to tax credit to a tax deduction. I think its a big difference. You would agree with that. A tax credit, you take a certain percentage of what you owe and instead of paying it to the federal government, youre giving it to a private school . No. You get to give it directly, effectively and efficiently to a private school. Not to a provide school, to a scholarship granting organization. Okay. 501c3. Got it. Nonprofit scholarship granting organization. A state that chooses to participate exactly. And career and Technical Education. The state of florida, where im from, theyve been having this program. Very successfully. No, not very successfully. I just read an article where three banks that have been contributing have now pulled out because they found theres 156 schools in florida that are discriminating against people who are lgbtq. We have a difficult philosophy. I want to say this. It is a mistake, i believe, for you to come in here to cut 6 million and ask for a cut of 6 billion, out of Public Education and at the same time, ask this congress to set up a program so that, whether its a corporation or a person, total of 5 billion can now go, instead of to the federal government to pay taxes, to some Scholarship Program that they can put money into a private institution that discriminates against people. I think thats a mistake. Maam, isnt education about kids . Yes. Okay. I tell you something, the great equalizer in life is a good Public Education. Its a good education, yes. One other thing i want to say which is this. I am very disappointed i will try to say this nicely, okay. Im very disappointed you feigned ignorance today about a dangerous new policy about on campus violence. Im very very worried about that and im really i dont understand why you maam, im not ignorant about it. I told you we have not released the final rule and it would not be appropriate for me to comment. Thank you. I yield back. Public education is a great equalizer. The reason the federal government has a role in Public Education was to guarantee children were protected, that opportunities were available, that there was equality and equity of the educational delivery system. Its not about alternatives to their system. We have a responsibility to make that system work for all the children. It concerns me, i asked you a question, how do you reconcile the disproportion discipline of minority students in school, suspensions, et cetera, and even the arresting of a 6yearold in schools without your questioning why that is happening. One other thing, madam secretary, any time the federal government puts money into one of these School Districts, you can require there be a nondiscrimination program. You have a responsibility to require theres not discrimination against children whether or not theyre black, latino or part of the lgbtq communities. That is your responsibility. But you dont seem to give one good hoot about Public Education. Every time we talk about Public Education, you talk about education. When you talk about education, you talk about the alternatives you think work. Let me tell you, one of the reasons that our children are not achieving to the extent theyre intellectually capable of doing so because were not putting the resources where they need to be, in the Public School system. Until we reconcile that, you all dont have any right to talk about improving the system. I yield back. Madam chair woman, could i just comment on that . I didnt ask the question. Congresswoman cole, if you want to wrap up your comments, i will wrap up and bring this to a close. Well, its been another eventful day, madam chair. I want to thank you. I want to thank you for the service you render this country each and every day. Ive known you for a long time. I agree with my friend, mr. Molinar, i dont know of anybody that cares more about young people getting a good education than you. You have a lifetime commitment and service and generosity, as does your family to demonstrate that. While we may have disagreements on any particular programs, you and i have a couple, it doesnt diminish one whit from the enormous sacrifice and service you and your family have given people of all races, all colors, every ethnicity, every background for many many many years. I consider your service as secretary to be an extension of that, quite frankly. Thank you. Second, i really want to applaud you on this career and Technical Education initiative. Both the additional money for the institutions and questions you propose, i think its a very wise investment. I particularly appreciate you taking the lead and putting on front we have a lot of students that would benefit from this kind of education, cant afford what are even very modest fees as a rule. Your willingness to look at the pell grant as an extension. We all want kids to guest a college education, one of the reasons how i feel about some of these others. And some young people dont want to go to a four year college, either dont want to or thats not the right approach for them. Sometimes we forget about them a lot. Youre putting the focus on folks too often forgotten. You and the president are part of that. Hes been a leader and took the apprentice proposal and obama proposal and put more money in that. This has been a very consistent theme in his tenure and your tenure. I appreciate that. Finally, i want to continue the dialogue in a variety of programs. Love to invite you sometime, id love you i was particularly pleased with your proposal on Second Chance pell. Ive been to tulsa Community College and seen that program. They do outstanding work. Thank you very much for mentioning them. It will surprise, delight and thrill them at no end. More importantly, its part of our population again that gets neglected and left behind. You putting a searchlight on it and saying, lets help people that had misfortune and made mistakes get back on the right track in life and opportunity to make a decent living. Its really a good thing. The last thing i would commit to you, i will wrestle with this student loan problem. I see it as a real issue. Im glad you mentioned the selling point about the cost of college as well. This isnt just a matter of the federal government, we have a lot of private institutions that need to think very carefully about how they counsel students and what they encourage them to do, and, frankly, the advice sometimes they dont give them as to what the appropriate level of debt, if any, should be for them. The administration of this, you rightly pointed out and frustrates people and im sure frustrates our chairman the amount of resources put in looking after them. We made a big mistake when we got out of the Loan Guarantee business and dumped this to the department of education and asked you to take on a mission in my view probably should not be your mission. Your thoughts are valuable. Finally, madam chairman i want to thank you. Youre always a great working partner and appreciate the way you manage our committee. We occasionally have differences but very seldom have deep disagreements about the task in front of you. I look forward to working with you as we craft this budget and others under our jurisdiction. As always we will find a lot more Common Ground than differences. Cant agree to commit to your first bill. If we can come toon agreement in congress, i think we can do it again. I want to thank the gentleman. Its been an extraordinary positive, a work, experience but positive and for that im deeply deeply grateful. Its that friendship that allows us to get the business of the country done, why were all here and we believe in that. I want to say one thing, madam secretary. I have a couple of items and comments moo colleagues have made, are regard to this notion that states can take if theyre taking public money in whatever form and discriminate, that will be up to the states. You may not want to take on that issue. We all believe you have that authority, but we are not going to stand by and watch states discriminate against our children in terms of proceeding to get an education. Let me mention on puerto rico, if i can. I want to take time to acknowledge the continued struggles of children in puerto rico. They have been really dealing with trying to recover from earthquakes, from all kinds of disasters. Still from hurricane maria. I have been told and will look into this, kids are going to school intents. I dont know if youve been or your staff has been to the island. I would ask you to do that, and to see these conditions and really to urge the administration to support the house supplemental bill. Its really imperative. When i was there for maria, children were afraid to go to school because if they went to school, they were fearful when they went home their parents would not be there. We are dealing with both education and we are dealing with Mental Health issues rargd these children. I think we all believe we have a moral responsibility in this area. Finally, let me just say, theres been a lot of discussion about the case for 12 education programs. My view, i think the view of my colleagues is that you propose to eliminate these programs, replace them with one block grant, in your words, eliminate federal burdens have that been quote inhibited innovation. Im concerned, madam secretary, that you confuse essential protections for children across all the formula programs as burdens. One of this nations most urgent charges is to address the achievement gap between English Learners and their native English Speaking peers as a condition of receiving title 3 state districts need language programs, professional development of teachers, of English Learners, parents, family, community, engagement. From the testimony, it appears that you look at the elementary and second airy education act and see a law full of formula grants that place burdens on states. However, i look at the elementary secondary education act and see vital protections for our most vulnerable students in our nations care. English learners, Homeless Children and youth, Migrant Children and children in the juvenile Justice System. The list goes on. We need to be absolutely clear. The department and you of the department should be straight with the nations parents and educators. Let them know which ones the vital protections and safeguards are going to be rolled back. My final comment is, and the Ranking Member mentioned this, that maybe not your budget but an omb budget, but its your job, you defend the budget, and year after year you defend cuts and question the effectiveness of federal investment in Public Education. This year, defending the proposal to eliminate we can have all the words possible, but we eliminate 41 programs. Last year, we talked about the 2020 request. I asked whether, you know, your request to omb in september included cuts to Special Olympics. We didnt get an answer. Long and short of it, Special Olympics is not cut this time around. But examine the cuts. What the department and what the administration are doing with regard to the cuts. Its not so much this is where i come down i am quite frankly tired of just saying, 40 million in a cut here, 26 million in a cut here, thats it is about the consequences. Its about what the effect of those cuts are on, our children. I think we both, from your perspective and from ours, have to be understanding of that opportunity to achieve your dreams and your aspirations through education, are being curtailed, and in particular for the most vulnerable of our kids, and kids in rural districts, kids who are in high poverty areas. That wont get the kind of attention that they need. I do believe its a moral responsibility to utilize all the power of the federal government to engage with these communities and these students. So my hope is, is that we will come forward with a bill in the education area that will meet their needs, and we can do that on a bipartisan basis. I thank you for being here and thank you for the work that you do on behalf of the countrys children. Thank you, chair woman. Thank you. The hearing is concluded. Thank you. Centers for Disease Control director will testify on the coroner virus response on cspan3. You can listen live on the free cspan radio app. Now, the british Prime Ministers questions, members of the house asked Prime Minister johnson questions. This is about a half hour. Questions for five minutes. Mr. Speaker, the whole house