Transcripts For CSPAN3 House Oversight Hearing On 2020 Census 20240713

With the House Oversight and reform committee. They discussed the Citizenship Question, Internet Access, language barriers, as well as counting certain populations like the homeless, exoffenders and tribal communities. The hearing also addressed how census numbers impact education, health care and infrastructure programs. This is four hours. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] without ox the chair is authorized to declare recess of the committee at any time. With that ill now without objection the chair is authorized to declare recess of the committee at any time. With that i will now recognize myself to give an Opening Statement and mr. Gomez will follow me with a minute and the same will be given to the Ranking Member. Good morning. Thank you for everyone for being here today to discuss a topic which is vital to our democracy, the census. The 2020 census is imminent with counting set to begin in alaska in less than two weeks and across the country on april 1. The constitution requires every person to be counted. Every Single Person living in the United States of america, not just citizens, not just people of a particular Political Party or race, absolutely everyone. I am gravely concerned that the Census Bureau may not be prepared to meet this high bar and that the 2020 census could leave communities across the country undercounted, underrepresented, and underfunded. The Government Accountability office and the department of commerce Inspector General both agree that the census is not where it should be. Sadly, under President Trump, we are forced to ask whether the failure to address these concerns is due to incompetence or is intentional. The Census Bureau has been plagued by delays in hiring. Thousands of census workers needed to ensure every person is counted. These delays hurt hardtocount communities the most because outreach from trusted voices and nonresponse followup are essential in these communities. The administrations antiimmigrant policies and its illegal effort to add a Citizenship Question have made an accurate count even harder to obtain by sowing fear and distrust in communities across the country. But this appears to be the point. As republican operative thomas hoffler, the socalled michelangelo of redistricting, put it, adding a Citizenship Question would be, and i quote from him, quote, advantageous for republicans and nonhispanic whites, end quote. Ultimately the administrations goal in trying to add a Citizenship Question seems to be to take the hardtocount and make them the uncounted. This is why i introduced a bill last year, the census idea act, to remove the Citizenship Question and codify the process by which questions are added to the census form. When the Supreme Court ruled that the attempt to had athe Citizenship Question was illegal, the administration refused for almost two weeks to accept the outcome before finally following the law. Even still the president is trying to use administrative records to collect citizenship data, but this has nothing to do with the 2020 census. The Census Bureau needs to make clear that everyone can participate in the census without fear, that doing so will not hurt them or their family, and that their personal data will be secure. The Census Bureau also faces a host of new challenges as it executes the largest census in history and the first to be conducted almost mostly and entirely online. Cyber threats, limited broadband access, reduced language assistance, and gaps in outreach efforts all threaten the success of the census. Data from the census will determine the apportionment of every seat in the house of representatives, and the allocation of roughly 1. 5 trillion in federal funding. An undercount means fewer federal dollars for communities that need them most, including for essential Public Services like medicaid, Childrens Health, insurance, foster care and schools. An undercount would also mean less representation for these communities at every level of government. If youre not counted, youre not represented. Some states, including california and my home state of new york, are trying to fill the gaps in the Census Bureaus efforts to reach hardtocount communities. I applaud these efforts and urge every state to do the same. The bureau should coordinate with these states so that limited resources can be used most effectively and efficiently. To be clear, i believe the career Civil Servants of the Census Bureau are working hard to achieve the mission of a complete and accurate census, but they need help and they need it quickly. Our Witnesses Today know these hardtocount communities better than anyone. We should value their expertise and pay heed to their recommendations, and i know i will. In november 2018, my predecessors, our beloved chairman, elijah cummings, vowed that ensuring a fair, accurate and nonpartisan census would be a top priority of the Oversight Committee on his watch, and he was good to his word. As chairwoman, i intend to honor that commitment. So i want to thank everyone for coming and i look forward to their testimony and i would now like to call on jimmy gomez for one minute. Thank you, chairwoman maloney. As we all know, todays hearing is not a theoretical exercise. The 2020 census is just days away and the threat of an undercount is real. The last census failed to count more than 750,000 latinos, more than 750,000 africanamericans, and more than 50,000 American Indians and native alaskans. Im very concerned that we could see an even bigger undercount in 2020. Many americans are fearful and mistrustful of their government and overcoming that fear and mistrust requires a massive mobilization effort that we have never seen before. But the Census Bureau appears to be far behind schedule. An undercount will have an impact on the opportunities available to the people in these communities. It will mean more people going without health care, fewer resources for child care, afford al housing, and less money for local schools. As a committee and a congress, our message should be simple. Everyone must be counted. Im grateful to each of our witnesses here today not just for assisting the committee but for your tireless advocacy to ensure that members of communities are counted fairly and accurately as the constitution requires. With that, i yield back. The chair now recognizes the Ranking Member. I thank the chair. Before getting to my Opening Statement, madam chair, when we last met i brought up the scathing report that Inspector General horowitz and the Justice Department brought forward last month. A report where even former fbi director jim comey on National Television had to say that he was wrong in his defense of the fbi and how they handled the fisa application process in the trump russia investigation. You indicated you would let us know when we were going to have mr. Horowitz in front of this committee. Understand what he pointed out, 17 different times i thank the gentleman. Were still waiting for an answer, madam chair. Id love to give you an answer. So the purpose of this hearing is on the census and i appreciate the Ranking Members persistence on this issue. Before the Inspector Generals report was released to the public, all members of the Oversight Committee had the opportunity to read the report and attend a briefing with the office of the Inspector General. The Senate Judiciary Committee Held a hearing on the Inspector Generals report on december 11th. The Senate Committee on Homeland Security followed with its own hearing on december 18th. The Inspector General testified at both of these hearings answereded numerous questions about the report, so i deeply appreciate the Ranking Members request and i wrote him a letter on december 6. At this point i dont think another hearing is necessary and i look forward to working with him on areas where we can Work Together to improve the lives of our constituents. So madam chairman, why dont we have a census hearing over in the senate then if were always going to rely on the senate to have these hearings. The gentleman is not recognized. Well, then i have a point of order. Then i have a point of order, and ill be glad because rule recite your rule of order. Rule 11, clause 2 j, section 1 actually talks about minority hearings. One of the issues that weve had, madam chairman, is that we believe that this committee needs to be doing their oversight function. And i bring up jack evans. Weve had jack evans resign from the d. C. Council. It was the previous chairman along with i would say the gentleman from virginia, mr. Connelly and i that expressed concern about proper oversight. Will the gentleman cite your point of order. The point of order is, is under that rule we have the requirement for a minority hearing of which was not noticed properly and was ambiguous at best and did not get to the heart of the matter because it was not conducted. And if if the chairman is going to argue a response to your point of order. We had a minority day of hearings on the d. C. I would i would. Im reclaiming my time. No, no. I would appeal the ruling of the chair. There is no ruling. There is no ruling. There is in point of order. Is my point of order out of order or not . You have stated a point of order. You violated the rule by not having a minority hearing that was properly noticed. We had a minority hearing. I appeal you are out of order. I appeal the ruling of the chair. Im reclaiming my time. I appeal the ruling of the chair. I have that right. I promise you, i have that right. For a minority hearing on a minority hearing that we already had on d. C. Statehood . Has mr. Evans has mr. Evans been here . Mr. Evans was invited to come along with others that were requested by the minority. I say we subpoena jack evans. They did not come. Its not up to me to get them to come. You invited them to get them there. I make a motion that we subpoena jack evans and have him come in. If we want to do proper oversight, i make a motion we subpoena jack evans. The gentleman has knottnot s a proper point of view. The gentleman has stated a proper point of view. Whether she wants to rule on it, i can assure the parliamentarian, ill be glad to go back and forth with her if she wants to put on her mic. Its not a proper point of order. I appeal the ruling of the chair. He gentlem has not stated a proper point of order. All right. It is the Ranking Members time. The Ranking Member is recognizing for his Opening Statement. Yield. Its your time, mr. Ranking member. Well, let me go back to we have a lot of concerns, madam chair. Let just be honest, and not only with the fact that mr. Evans has stepped town and we have yet to have him in front of the committee and also i rateses the issue of mr. Horowitzs report which again 17 different times the fbi misled the fisa court. Let me just read something. Just read something. That the chair talked about the senate having hearings but i thought this committee, which has oversight for every single Inspector General in our government, and were talking now about the Justice Department Inspector General, this is what the public order from the fisa court jung, judge collier, what she had to say after mr. Horwitzs report last month. The frequency with which representations made by fbi personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by the gentleman excuse me, Ranking Member no, no, the time is mine. Youre recognize he for an Opening Statement on the census. The time is mine. And oh, my gosh. All i know is during your Opening Statement the time didnt even run youch developed me you would give us the same opportunity during our Opening Statement. Let me go back before i was interrupted and read judge colliers statement in her public order after mr. Horowitzs report. The frequency with which representations made by fbi personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by information in their possession, and with which they withheld information, detrimental to their case, calls into question whether information contained in other fbi applications is reliable. Lets put that in plain english. They lied so much to the fisa court that the judge is saying how can be trust other representations you have made to this court. Thats what she said. Of mr. Horowitzs report and to date the chair doesnt even want to have a hearing. The chairmans response was, oh, the senate had a couple hearings, thats good enough. Even though this committee has injury disk over every single inspector gene government. Whats why we want mr. Horwitz hering for a hear. Had one when we republicans were in charge. We brought in the Inspector General after a big report but is guess things are different. Mr. He vans should have been here. Mr. Horowitz should have been here already. Unfortunately obviously the chairwoman wont do that. My remaining tomorrow i want to address the situation of the census. Thank you for convening this hearing. Oversight of the census is a core responsibility. I worry that since last january, democrats have been moretouch more focuses on using our committee to attack at the Trump Administration than addressing fundamental Good Government oversight like predness for the crepitus. The rein tess determines he is a poresment of seat the house and dictates how federal funds are and provides crucial detailed about the side of our population. Theft da tase the Gold Standard for research evers and statisticians to better understand e. Trends in american life. When we were in the majority the republicans healed several hearings but rein cuss predness back to 2015. In 2018 alone republicans convened five hearings or briefings weapon looked at important top yings like Information Technology preparation, Cyber Security prepareness and south to understand how the bureau was getting ready for their fit census that will allow people to commit responses online. Rather than conducting similar meaningful oversight the democrats cement a year trying to stop one simple question, are you a citizen . One question. Since obtaining the majority in january 2019 the drops healed on one hearing on the 2020 census that did not focus on one question. Since obtaining the majority in 2019, democrats have only held one hearing that did not focus on the census Citizenship Question, just one. After all of these months i do not understand why democrats do not want to know how many u. S. Citizens are living in the United States . Its a question on our census before, asked around the world and United Nations encourages countries to ask. Frankly, if you ask our constituents, should we ask on the census if youre a citizen . The person on the street would say well, of course. Arent we already doing that . And you would have to say yes, we are, and we have been doing it 200 years until now. Democrats argue it is declined to scare racist communities to underestimate populations and thats not correct. They conducted a test last summer of selfresponse of including a citizen question and found there was no difference no difference in selfResponse Rates between forms with and forms without a citizen question. Theres no difference in selfresponds rate with forms with and forms without a citizen question. The Trump Administration removed the question in an inclusion of the 2020 census, and democrats want you to believe this was fundamentally appropriate and court vindicated their position. But in fact the Supreme Court held the Trump Administration had the authority to ask the question about citizenship on the census but took issue for the administrations process for doing so under administrative law. To ensure our government is accountable and responsible to the people, not aid and ambitions. I hope today we can Start Playing partisan games, get back to the fundamental oversight used to accomplish the stated goal, count everyone only once and in the right place. We should ensure census does its best to count everyone. Thank you, madam chair. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses and yield back. Thank you. I would like to introduce our witnesses. Were privileged to have a rich diversity of witnesses on our panel today that can testify regarding their hardtocount communities. Mr. Gupta is the lead executive offer on u. S. Civil rights. John yang is the executive director of Asian American advancing justice. Arturo vargas is the kreef executive officer of lanio Education Fund. And the office of the National Congress American Indians and marc morial is the president and chuf executive officer of the National Urban league. Daryle ward is executive of the center from south georgia regional impact at Valdosta State university. And if you would all please rise and raise your right hand, i will begin by swearing you in. Do you swear or affirm the testimony youre about to give is the truth, whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god . I do. Let the record show the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Please be seated. The microphones are sensitive. Please speak directly into them. Without objection your written statement will be made part of the record. With that, miss gupta, youre now recognized for your Opening Statement. Thank you. Chairwoman maloney, Ranking Member jordan and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today and thank you chairwoman for counting this it hearing for the 2020 census. We believe a fair and accurate census is among the most important civil rights issues of our day. Not only is the census essential to apportioning political power but the data also influences significant federal funding for Services Like school, Fire Department and hospitals. It is the bedrock of our democracy and has enormous impact on the nations ability to ensure equal treatment under law. The 2020 census is likely to be the largest, most difficult ee numerati innumeration in our nations history. They are diverse graphically, culturally and individually. And even with careful planning, the bureau has historically undercounted certain communities in the census. Notably people of color, Young Children, experience experiencing homelessness and renters and some populations, Young Children under the age of 5, the undercount has grown progressively worse. Now additional population since as rural residents and Older Americans may experience increased vulnerability. Households may not participate in the census for reasons including mistrust of government, limited language access, data confidentiality concerns and lingering fear following the failed attempt to add a accident question to the census. Hardtocount communities are in every state and district from large urban areas to rural and remote communities, including American Indian, tribal lands and reservations. And thats why the Leadership Conference launched census counts, a nationwide campaign to drive strategies, outreach strategies, to hardtocount communities through a network of trusted national and local messengers to strengthen Census Bureau efforts. Census counts naturalization, some here today, include people who live and work at communities most at risk to be missed in the census. Today were training education leaders about the census, translating materials into languages the bureau will not. As well as Monitoring Bureau activities to assure theyre best serving hardtocount populations. Our state count Action Network works with all 50 states and d. C. To reach populations and encourage them to participate in the census. We are grateful for congressional leaders for your bipartisan effort in 2019 to ensure sufficient funding for the 2020 census. The bureau must update its Operational Plan now with Key Stakeholders from congress and use the funding set by congress. The window of opportunity to ensure a successful census is closing fast. We urge the bureau to address the following concerns. First the bureau has to meet the challenge of the first census, including i. T. Readiness and Cyber Attacks and Disinformation Campaigns. The bureau must update congress on the status of sim readiness to rebuild confidence at a time people are skeptical and fearful of government and data security. Further, our coalition has observed intentional efforts to suppress census information under traditional and social media. Other civil Rights Groups and congress, Tech Companies have started to fight this information and misinformation preying on peoples fears. Both the bureau and Tech Companies must be transparent about their plans to counter census interference and be sure these policies are strictly enforced. Targeting communications and advertising outreach to hardtocount communities is also critical and we have concerns right now. Stakeholders are concerned about the bureaus made media plan that it isnt robust enough to do the outreach and ensure population of hardtocount groups. The bureaus 2020 Census Program will play an essential role in raising trust, awareness and completion in the census. The bureau has to provide more information to help congress and stakeholders to determine whether its on track to meet the programs stated goals, including the target number of partnerships. And loosely they need physical, accessible information. They need more information on the mobile planned questionnaire assistance. They need to hire more staff and create a larger footprint including mobile and fixed locations to be effective. When your consistents are not counted in the census, they remain invisible the next ten years. And there are no doovers. We have to get it right the first time. The leadership looks forward to working with the committee to ensure a cost effective, secure and above all fair census in everybodys communities. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Yang. Thank you very much for holding this hearing. Im part of a National Philadelphia and independents from chicago to San Francisco and includes partners of 163 in 33 states and district of columbia. We have reach outto our community regarding these issues and educating policymakers about these important issues. We have also served for the Census Bureau on numerous adviser committees since 2000, including most recently a two, threeyear term stint for race and other populations. Were proud to partner with miss gupta and mr. Vargas as part of the census task force. I appreciate this opportunity to testify and speak specifically about the asianamerican Hawaiian Pacific community. With the next centennial to reach the community, its important to talk about why our communities are important. Its the fastestgrowing Minority Group grown by 22 since 2010 and similar rates since 2010. Ul though theres a modern myth that asianamericans are largely educated, receive average incomes, the reality is many in our communities, especially southeast asia, native Hawaii Pacific islanders suffer gaps in income and education. Its only through accurate census data can we understand the rapidly changing demographic and needs for this community. When the Administration Proposed to add the census questions we knew right away we had a fivealarm fire. Even though we put out that fire through litigation to prevent that question from appearing on the 2020 census, we know damage has been done. Like any fire, the damage that has been done takes time for it to be repaired. Giving immigrant families the responsibility and understanding the census is important. The aftermath of the citizen question debacle and continuing antiimmigrant rhetoric we see, this task has become formidable. Theres significant confusion and mistrust about the administrations intent and were limited in response to the challenges. Although the committee made some important clarifications there are gaps that need to be overcome. With respect to the online option, the only languages are chinese, japanese and vietnamese and there are no other options other than english and spanish. There are guides in other languages but no coverage for native hawaiian, pacific languages and other important asian languages. Third, hiring for the Partnership Program has been slow and inconsistently inclusive of underserved communities. Among the barrar whys encountered is the emphasis of online applications, back logs on background checks and insufficient outreach to our communities with respect to job opportunities. Only recently the bureau announced the ability to hire census takers not limited to u. S. Citizens but other people that have work authorizations. Although this is clearly favorable to serve our demographic, the fact that it came so late minimizes the potential benefits this brings. Likewise, field offices and partner specialists need to be trained adequately to ensure they provide consistent responses to different questions about census policies. Thus far we have seen too often inconsistencies have been provided. The campaign miss gupta alluded to, thats an Important Role. We only recently understood the folk media buys in december and the asianamerican plans. And chairwoman maloney, representative may and others have addressed this concern to the Census Bureau, which we appreciate. Just yesterday the bureau announced it would provide some outreach to hindi and urdu. We understand that but need more information on what that campaign would entail. We are concerned about the number of languages provided in the Media Campaign and apparent lack of micro targeting of communities other than five asian languages for which online responses would be accepted. We believe this approach is insufficient to address these communications issues, especially with communities that while english proficient, would receive messages better than are ethnically and culturally tailored. In conclusion there are numerous challenge he ensuring the asianamerican Pacific Islanders are counted. We made progress but theres more work to be done. Thank you very much, mr. Vargas is recognized. Adam chairwoman, i have a unanimous i just want to add to something to the record by unanimous consent. Im sorry . The gentleman can enter whatever he likes. I change the chair. I have correspondence between myself and mr. Dillingham on the practice of hiring people, especially following mr. Yangs testimony in terms of nonenglish speakers, i ask it be entered into the record at this time. Without objection. I thank the chair. Thank you. Mr. Vargas is recognized. Thank you, chairwoman maloney, Ranking Member jordan and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today with preparation of census 2020. Our fund has been an adviser to the bureau since 2000 and were preparing to undertake a massive independent campaign to provide a full count in the 2020 census. I would like to stress we respect the work of the Census Bureau and as a National Partner our core meeting for successful censuses. I would like to share my growing antipathy for the term hardtocount populations to describe some of the populations we represent. In fact, what makes people hard to count are the ee numeration strategies the Census Bureau uses. My remarks this morning are a summary of more expensive remarks to the committee, issues addressed in my written testimony. There are three i would like to underscore today. One, there has been damage done by the Citizenship Question debacle and remedies are needed. The bureaus 2019 Research Shows heightened sensitivity among several groups with a census form and Citizenship Question. All research from the endtoend test of the past three months showed the Citizenship Question debacle created and continues to foster fear and doubt. Many latinos are resistant to participate in the census because they believe there will be a citizen question on the form despite its absence and many fear how the data will be used. This is exacerbated by a hoss ill environment towards immigrants populated by this administration. We believe they should use its favorable perception it holds to deliver credible messages about the content on the 2020 census form. However, we have observed that bureau staff have been instructed not to discuss the Citizenship Question. The Census Bureau outreach staff must be directed to advise the public there will be no Citizenship Question on the 2020 census. Having been briefed on the bureaus communications campaign, we are in impressed the bureau and contractors understand the challenge. Yet we are deeply concerned that the latino approach is almost exclusively in spanish and theres no specific campaign to reach latinos who consume information in english. Education fund and others will do all we can to fill these gaps but the tasks of repairing the damage and reaching all latinos must not be borne by us alone. Two, the Census Bureau should prepare for a significant demand for paper form, ensure the Online Mobile response option is effective and implement an effective assistance program. Latinos prefer to respond to the census according to research on paper or online. And many latinos participated in the attest through this way. They need paper for for all who prefer this response mode and be sure theres appropriately prepared, skilled and innumerated workforce. Many expressed the participation online thus the bureau must ensure it is user friendly and with the Load Capacity to meet demand. Finally we continue too believe a Census Bureau initiative to provide lives and persons is essential. We need to stand up immediately for a fair Program Congress funded in addition to extending additional questionnaire centers. Three, the persistence of decline flaw. One aspect of the 2020 census ha has not received oversight had the failure to modern ice Data Collection of hispanic origin of race. Our information reveals significant questions about answering the Race Ethnicity questions. They used since 1980 and it is flawed. Researchers have warned using a twoquestion design, census will show some of the races, unquote, will be the second largest racial group, a category omb does not even recognize. Nearly all of the rerespondants to some of the race will also have indicated they are hispanic. The bureau carried out a constitutional process to develop a better way on race and ethnicity. The bureau recommended a combined approach for 2020. In early 2018 we learned the bureaus recommendation had been gathering dust due to inaction by ombs inaction of regulatory affairs. Congress must investigate or inaction or collection of information will affect the data. Many americans will not understand how to answer the question of ethnicity on the origin of race, leave it blank, compromising the quality of data and increasing costs to provide the census. We must include information how to complete these questions to overcome design flaws. Again, thank you for the opportunity to share our comments with the committee. I look forward to your questions. Good morning, chairwoman maloney, ranging mb jordan and members of the committee. Im kevin alice and travel citizens of the Forest Community in wisconsin and also chief executive officer of National Congress of American Indians and behalf of ncai i thank you for holding the hearing to reach hardtocount communities in the upcoming 2020 census. As the son of a woman who grew up on a hardtoreach community in the 20s, to the 60s, a grandchild of a man who raised these concerns in the late 50s and early 60s. Ncai was informed in 1974 and this topic of pm wewas raised b. In response to termination and assimilation policies that threaten the existence of tribal nations. Since then they ask to preserve tribal nations, advance governorship and remove impediments to selfdetermination. Theres much success yet there is much more work to do for the country to fully realize the promises this nation made, this body of congress made and this country owes the Indian Country in its rights and responsibilities. Like all communities they try to ensure the health and accuracy of citizens and this is vital to the efforts. 2020 cleansous datas will do three important things, whether native americans have an accurate voice in the process, fair zibting of the billions of dollars of federal funding that tribal nations across the communities across the United States and whether tribal nations have actual data for programmatic and resourcerelated Decision Making their tribal leaders make that are essential as status of sovereigns. Given the importance of census data, the prospect of another undercount of native americans and alaska natives are deep childrening. Those in villages in alaska have been historically underrepresented in this census. In 2010 the u. S. Census bureau estimates American Indians living on these nations or villages were undercounted by 4. 9 . Thats more than double the undercount of the next closest population group. It is a fact American Indian and alaska native populations are among the hardest to count, not only does a significant portion of our population live in these hardtocount tracks, we also exhibit many of the factors that contribute to communities being hard to count. Additionally a Census Bureau survey and our own message testing found issues affecting the American Indian and alaska native census participation to be mistrust of government, concerns related to privacy and perceptions of participation would not lead to anything. The Census Bureau as a federal agency has obligations to overcome these challenges and provide an accurate count for every community. The decision of the Census Bureau to focus efforts on online innumeration is a significant risk. As many communities in individual households in Indian Country do not have access to the internet. This strategy, along with the need for trusted voices on the ground in tribal communities, emphasize how critical it is for the Census Bureau to allocate resources to hire and retain American Indians and alaska native enumerators and specialists. Yet its still unclear in alaska whether this goal has been reached. Moreover, were also concerned about the delays in the Census Bureaus American Indian and alaskan native campaign. We are working tirelessly to and sure an accurate and complete count. However, our efforts are not to replace or absolve the u. S. Census bureau of its responsibility to use staff and resources to ensure a full remuneration of alaskan and native american populations. And such ncai recommends the bureau makes steps in the following actions immediately address delays in hiring. American indians and alaskan native specialists to enhance the trusted sources for Indian Country population to rely upon. Reallocate resources to address needs for more communication actions to ensure complete innumeration of American Indian populations. Increase communications to tribal communities on what resources are available to ensure participation is complete, ensure that Data Collected about American Indian and alaskan native household individuals is accurate and successful after the implementation of a planned new disclosure and mythologies. In conclusion in closing, i urge this committee to continue conducting oversight during the Census Bureau implementation of the 2020 census. This will help ensure a complete and accurate count for the Indigenous People of this country. Thank you. That have been here forever. Thank you. I now recognize mr. Moore for five minutes. Morial. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Chairwoman maloney and Ranking Member jordan. Im marc morial. I serve as president of the urban league. I previously served as mayor of new orleans, Louisiana State senator and chairman of the 2010 census advisory committee. Im proud to be here today and thank you for the opportunity. The National Urban league was founded in 1910 as a nonpartisan, nonprofit Civil Rights Organization dedicated to the Economic Empowerment of africanamericans. We work through a network of 90 afillingettes in 36 states and district of columbia. We serve 2 Million People a year. We assist them in finding jobs, becoming homeowners and starting Small Businesses in many very important areasment ill speak today about the undercount of africanamericans and the challenges in the upcoming census and how the National Urban league is mobilizing to ensure a complete and accurate count. I want to thank the committee and i want to thank the leadership for ensuring that the census 2020 has been better funded. The census has been historically underfunded for most of the past decade. Whats been the significance of this . Its caused operational and i. T. Delays, recruitment and hiring challenges, the cancellation of critical tests to improve the 2020 census count. Your leadership on this issue is in the best interest of all of the american people. And i encourage you to continue to exercise your oversight responsibilities. We have witnessed the browning of america in realtime. From california to connecticut, from florida to alaska, weve witnessed the growing needs of our communities as the gap between those who have and those who have not has increased. We see the true faces of the undercount every day. Theyre children, theyre black, chair brown. Theyre the formally incarcerated who are black, brown and of other races. Theyre the homeless and the gentrified. Theyre the digital illiterate and digital homeless, those with no internet address or access to speak of. The census is a big deal. The Founding Fathers were brilliant in ordaining that all of the people in the United States be counted every ten years. 50 years ago in 1970 my predecessor, Whitney Young jr. , who was executive director of the National Urban league, testified before the then subcommittee on census and statistics a part of the committee on post office and civil service. At that time he spoke passionately about the need for a full and complete count of black and underserved communities. His testimony about the 12970 census is oddly familiar to the discussion today. He talked about inadequate assistance for completing the forms, poor kbhcommunity outrea lack of Spanish Language forms, inadequate outreach and education to reach minority populations. He noted the 1960s census, 60 years ago, missed one in ten black people, including one in six black men. Fast forward to 2020. And while theres much to applaud about the 2020 census, the Technological Advancement and operational modernizations, me and my copanelists see too many parl alegals to the 1970s assistance and even more uncertainties. In 2010, i million children,dy proportionate black and brown, didnt show up in the census. An alarming 610 black children between the ages of 0 and 4 were completely missed. The undercount of black and brown children has grown exponentially and economic and political consequences of this are grave. Africanamerican men are still missed in staggering numbers. In the 2010 census fully 3. 9 million africanamericans were completely missed. Approximately 700,000 formerly incarcerated men and women reenter our communities each year, they must be counted. We must count the Digital Divide in rural and poor, rural and urban poor communities and those with low digital fluency who require a paper questionnaire and enumerators knock on the door. We have to participate in disinformation social Media Campaigns designed to mislead communities and communities of color about the census and sow seeds of fear about census participation. Community and outreach and education has been hampered by the failed Citizenship Question which heightened distrust and fear of the census in immigrant communities. Now, weve worked with the Census Bureau to help achieve an accurate 2020 count, and we do commend the rank and file and those in regional offices and Partnership Teams for the work theyve done. Let me talk about the gaps. Significant hiring delays and backlogs are going to impact are the door to door ee numeration. Let me make this point. The Census Bureaus own Research Shows that notwithstanding the Internet Access and the phone access, 40 to 60 of americans are going to wait until an enumerator knocks on the door. If in fact the Census Bureau does not hire a significant amount of enumerators on a timely basis, the enumerator portion of this census will not succeed. And the impact will be an undercount in black communities, in brown communities, in asian communities and in Rural Communities. Those hiring delays will affect indigenous. I want to say a few other things about the paid Advertising Program and i want to make this point, weve had an opportunity to look at that Advertising Program. Our concern is that the timing of the Advertising Program is misaligned with enumerator processes. Your five minutes is over. If you can wrap up. Im seeing 1 37 on the clock. Over. [ laughter ] as you all say, i beg your indulgence. My final point is i encourage in the questionandanswer period i would like to explain and illuminate how in fact the Advertising Program is misaligned with the innumerater portion. Its important that advertising take place while the door knocking program is ongoing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Mr. Moore is recognized. Chairwoman maloney, thank you for the it up ut to testify today on behalf of Rural Americans and specifically rural georgians. Georgia, like many others, is facing statewide challenges in Rural Communities. Population declines, grain populations, slow job growth and distressed city. We have four universities and have a mission to serve a 41county service area primarily in south georgia. In 2017 leadership at the esu started talking about how they could have an impact on the recurring challenges all of those communities face. That could be business, industry, health care, k through 12, education, city county government. And they came up with a result was they created the center for southeastal georgia impact and i started working with that organization in 2018. The mission of the center is try to work with all 41 counties to identify opportunities and challenges they might have and go back to the state to identify resources to help them out that could be interns, graduating assistance, research, professors working on projects. It just depends what the need is and covers all sets of our colleges. Were focused on our 41county area and its very diverse. Meaning you would probably consider everybody rural but the largest is loudon 115,000 and counties as small as 1, 500. Our goal is the communities know what they need best so were trying to find out what they need and go back and try to find resources to help them out. One thing that helped me out i guess in the transition is i had a 25year back unroud in Economic Development and i had a successful career in georgia and spent the last 20 years in a different county. When i left we had 96 projects under construction and 3. 1 Unemployment Rate which is pretty strong for a south georgia rural community. One thing that stuck out is we were looking at what we were trying to do with the center and a lot of my friends in south georgia. The Georgia Chamber of commerce had a presentation called georgia 2030 and making rounds with the presentation probably three, four years. You dont have the graphics but if youre looking back up, they have population projections and job projections through 2030. And those numbers are pretty dire for south georgia continue for rural georgia. As you would expect or project strong population and job growth in atlanta, in many of our hub cities, savannah, augusta, columbus and macon, minimal growth but many of our counties in rural georgia are projecting population losses and job losses. From an Economic Development standpoint, thats a death knell. So the census proposed a tremendous opportunity to get involved, tremendous challenge for our 41 counties. I mentioned my career and one thing that tied in to what were doing with the census right now is when i was in cal cut we had a program with the university of georgia called archways. Same premise, we an employee who served in poultry, identify big produc product projects and go back and provide information to us. One of the projects was the 2010 crime scene. Census. We knew the count before there was one. We had a great team in place, trusted voices representing every different graphic of the community and as a result we had an 89 in the 2010 census, which is pretty strong for a south rural community. And i parlayed it to every request sent out for industry and recreation and commercial industries because Companies Want to invest where theyre going to be. What weve done, we worked with local and regional communities. We met with all 41 counties and tried to help them organize their complete count committees. Again, everyone is different. What works in one county will not work in another. Demographics will be different, resources will be different. We assisted with strategies to achieve an accurate count. Weve worked with the governors complete count, committee. They hired a committee and marketing firm, uga and, of course, u. S. Census reps theyre serving or region. Weve done several focus groups with hard count populations trying to refine our marketing message and were also providing free marketing support to our 4 1county area. Weve got order forms we sent out. Weve got billboards already up in all 41 kupties. Weve got coloring pages that were making available through k35 systems throughout south georgia and technically throughout georgia. Weve got table tents that promote the census on every restaurant table from kordell south, all 41 counties. Weve got posters who target how the census impacts business and industry, how it impacts your family, how it impacts children, and migrant farm workers and how it impacts you as a Community Leader standpoint. All of these media are available in english and spanish and we have the ability to provide them in other languages if necessary. The order forms came back in in november and we currently have order forms for 45,306 table tents, 65,757 posters that will be delivered at no cost to all of our counties next week. Were also doing banners, promotional tshirts and other media to help support them. I know my time is up. Our main goal was to make sure every citizen knows how important it is for them, their family and their community to participate in the census. Thank you very much. And thank you for all of your efforts. I commend all of our panelists. I would like to announce today that on february 12th, the director of the Census Bureau, dr. Steven dillingham, will be appearing before this committee to answer questions about how the bureau is responding to the many challenges that are panelists outlined today. And with so much at stake, vigorous oversight of the 2020 census is absolutely essential. I now recognize myself for five minutes. This years census will be the largest and most complex in our nations history. So the bureau has a tough job to ensure that every Community Gets fully and accurately counted. Sadly, the Current Administration admitted or practically admitted they dont even want to count everyone when they tried to illegally add a Citizenship Question to the census. As a result, many cities and states have stepped up to ensure everyone is counted. Theyve established what is called and mr. Moore talked about it and mr. Moorial complete count committees to identify risks, recommend solutions and direct state and local funding to areas of hardtocount, atrisk areas. Mr. Morial, you served in new orleans on the complete count committee, i believe, in 1990 you said, and led that committee as mayor in 2000. Would you agree that establishing these committees is the right move, and would you recommend this practice to other states and localities . Its important that states and localities and in the case of mr. Moore, regional Economic Development organizations, understand that the success of the census requires a partnership and the involvement of local elected officials. What we dont have visibility on at this point is how many cities, how many states, how many counties have in fact created complete count committees and have operationalized them . One problem with this years census is that census reduced the number of local partnership offices by 50 . And these local partnership offices were the connective tissue between the complete count committees and census. Yes, its an important strategy. And i would encourage it. And i would say that in 2000, the city of new orleans spent money and had its own effort under way with people and advertising and resources. I know in this instance there are a number of communities and cities doing the sail thing for 2020 and states. Thank you. My home state of new york is doing that. They created their own complete count commission. You pointed out an important point that theyve reduced some support in this area. Maybe we should get the Census Bureau to do a review of how many complete count committees are out there and that can have us have a good overview. That would be very helpful. The new york count committee came up with eight risks and challenges, which were similar to what you said today, language barriers, Digital Divide, hiring issues and distrust among communitys of color. Very similar to what you were saying. And then they came up with 18 specific recommendations, and also put in roughly 60 million in city, state and philanthropic funding to help make sure that the census was stronger. We hope that other communities can also take the initiative as you have in new orleans. Miss gupta, do you believe the Census Bureau should be engaging with these state and local committees to make the bureaus outreach more efficient and effective . It seems a better coordination would help. Can you elaborate in this area . Yes, these complete count committees are incredibly important. Theyre actually the model developed by the bureau at its inception to coordinate state and local efforts around the country to get out the count. And we know actually most states have indeed created them. There are five states that have not. They are louisiana sorry, four, nebraska, south dakota and texas, and florida just this week created one but one of the challenges is states cant just nominally create these committees. They also have to put significant funding towards them particularly because this will be one of the most difficult innumerations. So florida created a complete count committee did this week but did not allocate any dollars to it. Theres mapping over two dozen states allocated and contributed significant statebased funding to help supplement the federal funding and work of the bureau, but that partnership needs to be really tight and too many states still have not added Additional Resources to really get the partnership trusted messengers communications supplemental work out as a part of that. The bureau needs to work much more closely with these committees around the country. I dont have a chance to speak to inch beveryone, but if can place in writing, i will let mr. Moore to have the last word how beneficial these complete count committees are. Did you work with them on georgia . Put on the mic please. Not used to that. Theyve been tremendous. Weve actually had a governors complete count committee since 2017. Honestly, weve had much more emphasis on the census for 2020 than 2010. In 2010 i dont think we had planned or a lot of support, but we do this year. Thats good. Thank you. There are partners all over. Weve tracked i think almost every county my time has expired. I invite all of the panelists to put in writing their experiences with complete count committees and other ways it needs to be expanded. Its such an important challenge before us. An accurate, fair census. Our constitution requires it. Our government relies on it, and our democracy depends on it. With that i recognize the distinguished Ranking Member, mr. Gosar of arizona. Thank you, madam chairwoman. Mr. Moore, im from arizona. Youre from georgia. Sounds like you have pretty good expertise here. According to the City University of new yorks mapping service, 21 of the population in my district did not send in their survey. And the same report that are estimates of 25 of the population in my district actually lives in these la hardtocount districts. Have we learned anything from previous censuses to combat the waste and lack of response . Sure, and thats one thing were trying to incorporate on a countybycounty level or Community Level in all of our communities. We have historical data. We know the Response Rate by census track in 2010 so we can tell you where the hardtocount areas were then and if they were then will likely be in 2020. Also maps with low or limited internet connect connectivity. Were working with a plan to target all of those focused areas, shotgun or rifle areas, have a shotgun trying to hit everybody else. Weve got several different organizations. Our georgia libraries are putting up stations where people can come back in, get information on the census, fill out the census while theyre there. I had a call with the Georgia Farm Bureau about two weeks ago. Theyre going to do the same thing. Weve got family connections, housing authorities, soup kitchens that are all doing similar items. Our main goal again is awareness and education, trying to make sure people know why its important and making it easy for them to participate. You brought up Internet Access. And roughly 17 almost 18 of my district has no access to real access to internet. So is providing that Internet Service actually expanded the reach or made it more convenient for those people to actually do it that have fundamentally fallen through . I think its probably both. You have a younger demographic now, which is hard to count millennials who do everything on the phone and computer. We have maps and i actually received one from the u. S. Census for all of our counties. About two weeks ago we said we know which areas dont have Internet Access. The first mailing for the census will start going out you march 12th. Most people that have internet are going to get an internetfirst card and encourage them to participate. Those areas that they know do not have internet will get a written form the first time. So everybody in the country is going to have an opportunity to fill it out by the internet with a written form at least once, possibly twice, or do it by the toll free number. Again, you just have to encourage them and promote it and let them know how important it is to participate. So now the census has four hardtocount categories, hard to locate, contact, persuade and interview. These areas are pertinent to my district. If we look outside of the cities and prescott, newman and whatnot, 60 to 0 return rate was issued. How is it im noticing in your comments that its not a onesizefitsall situation. You expanded. Can you elaborate more . Its definitely not. We have communities were serving about 50 counties now. Some the city and county they have taken the lead. Some family connections, nonprofits, have been taking the lead in the development authority. But really i think mr. Morial may have mentioned trusted voices or possibly mr. Vargas. You have to have trusted voices for everybody in your community. We had that in coal cut county in 2010. If you have somebody with influence on 50 or 100 people, you need to get them engaged in the complete count committee and let them go back and have an impact on the people they have an influence on. I kind of want to step outside my district and talk about the fast growing pace of arizona. The population of increase is 2 and above. Counting as many people possible is critical for our future, that includes different populations, ethnics, tribal he etties. Does the census effort directly adirect these communities identified as hard to reach . Yes, sir and were trying to develop plans for each community. I know u. S. Census and even state census has hardtocount populations and all of those dont apply to every community. Its critical for community to have robust, complete count committee thats very diverse. You have faithbased, you have business and local media and people who feel comfortable writing letters or speaking that may have influence on the general community. So its important you come up with a real plan to get everybody to participate. I thank the gentleman and yield back. The gentlewoman, mrs. Norton, from the district of columbia, congresswoman norton is recognized for five minutes. First i want to say i appreciate the testimony of all of you, but i must say mr. Moore, i appreciate your testimony because it emphasizes the except to which the census issue has not ideological face. Indeed it is against the interest of every member sitting up here to have their own residents not counted because if for no other reason the money will not go to them. Understand the money will be appropriated by the congress. It only means your district wont get it because you have supported an undercount. I was amazed to see the Ranking Members remarks, even after a Supreme Court, a conservative Supreme Court, has rescued the country from this issue. And i would just like to indicate what they said. The Supreme Court said that the rational given by me colleagues had been contrived and incongruent with what the record reviews and that conservative Supreme Court is why were going to have a chance to have an accurate census. Now, its not enough to say, look, everybody the question is not on the census. I want to urge every member of congress to undertake actions on the internet, in your own district, to try to reverse the message that was out there for two years that alarmed people, remembering its always difficult to get an accurate census and that my friends on the other side have made it even more difficult so let me ask you, mr. Vargas, i understand your organization has been studying the issue since the Supreme Court ruling and im trying to get data or information on the impact. I understand you have given some thought to this. On the impact of the citizen question on the willingness as i speak of citizens to participate in this census. Thank you, congresswoman, for that question. In october, november and december our low Education Fund Commission Research surveyed 1,200 latino adults and immigrants and we held 12 focus groups throughout the country in oregon, florida, North Carolina, wisconsin, texas and arizona to try to assess what the current perceptions are by latino immigrants towards the census. We found some important things. One is the Census Bureau has a positive brand. Yet it needs to use and fully educate the public about what is and is not going to be asked. We also learned there are very significant differences and willingness to participate by latino citizens and noncitizens. Latino citizens express much more likelihood to say they will fill out their census forms. Noncitizens less so. Do you think the undocumented and every jurisdiction has undocumented people here are they going to participate in this census . Congresswoman, this isnt just undocumented immigrants. These are families with mixed status households, u. S. Citizens, legal permanent residents, daca applicants. People of varying immigration status. And theres a fear of why am i being asked now am i a citizen yes or no when immigrants are following policy developments day to day and know theres a campaign against immigrants in the country today . This has created an environment that does not help the Census Bureau of being able to convince everybody it is in fact safe and confidential. That is why we need trusted messengers to speak up. The trusted messengers we identified are educators, health care providers, minorityled organizations like the ones here on the panel today and local eye elected officials. Those are the individuals we need to empower to speak out and to convince their constituents that participating in the census is safe and confidential, and any perceived risk is actually outweighed by the damage done by not participating in the census. This is very important that this responsibility is on us all, and not just census, why dont you do that . And lets ask a question about the administration that refuses to give up on administrative records. I hope people have not even heard about it but do any of you have any information on the executive order or the effect of the executive order to start collecting citizenship data from federal and state administrative records . Do you think this will have an impact . Im not trying to give it air time. I just want to know if we have seen any repercussions. If i may, congresswoman, i think its fundamentally important building off of what my colleague Arturo Vargas said for people to understand under federal law the bureau is not allowed to release data or personal responses they receive to any other government agency. But we know that the executive order has created grave concerns that the president is attempting to use that to exclude noncitizens from the population count that states use to redraw district lines. That would be unconstitutionally blocking communities from across the country of fair and equal representation and aging americans advancing justice and filed a lawsuit to challenge the executive order. Thank you, thank you. The distinguished Ranking Member jim jordan of ohio is recognized. Thank you, madam chair. Now we cant even debate it. Think of what we just heard and what we have heard in testimony from mr. Yang and vargas. For a year the democrats told us oh, the Citizenship Question on the census is bad. Its a bad idea. Even though weve been doing it since 1820, they tell us its a bad idea. Now today even know its nod. Even though when the Census Bureau did a study last summer, they saw no difference in selfResponse Rates with forms with the Citizenship Question and those without, but today its even worse, oh, just the fact we had a debate is harmful. Now think how scary that is. Mr. Yang and mr. Vargas both said that and the gentle lady from the district of columbia just said the same thing. Were not even allowed to talk about it now. That is really scary. The debate itself about a question thats been asked since 1820 . Lets just get the facts straight. Between 1820 and 1950 it was asked on the census between 1920 and 2000 long form census and to today it was placed on the American Community survey. But now today were not even supposed to debate it. This is where the left wants to take us. Think of what judge alito, previous member, talked about the Supreme Court decision. Heres what judge alito said in his decision, concurring in part, descending in part. No one disputes that its important to know how many inhabitants of this country are citizens. Hes actually wrong. I think making a good point but i think hes wrong. Every democrat on this committee disputes that. The witnesses in front of us here today dispute it even though our constituents say we should know how many. Mr. Yang, do you think its important to know how many citizens are in this country . It is important under the constitution article one, section two to ensure all residents are counted under every desenal census. Thats not the question i asked. And if theres anything from the track from that census in terms of offering a fair and accurate count, that is a concern. So you disagree with judge alito . No one disputes that its important to know how inhabitants, do you think hes wrong . Of the census. Do you think its appropriate to know how many people in this country are citizens . I would offer no further response. What we are here let the record to show the gentleman wont even answer the question. Between 1820 and 1950 when our country asked inhabitants of this nation are you a citizen, that was wrong . I dispute your understanding of the history with the question with American Community, should they be asking people the Citizenship Question. May i answer that question, congressman. I addressed mr. Yang, trying to answer a question he refuses to answer. I asked a simple question, is it appropriate to ask to find out how many people of this country are citizens. Its appropriate to ask under the census, the census were talking about, were trying to determine the. Population of the United States. And anything that detracts from the fairness and accuracy of that count would not be part of the mission. I followed up, so do you think its wrong that the Census Bureau on the survey is asking a Citizenship Question. Thats a survey instrument thats been tested in the context of the American Survey. Previously the long form. Thats difference than the 20 census. Ill ask this, is it okay to debate this issue or do you stick with your opening testimony. That we shouldnt have a discussion about it because that may impact what happens on the census. The fact that this question was introduced has caused damage to the community and that damage continues to this day. As demonstrated by the studies by mr. Vargas. And so that is what we need to address to ensure a fair and accurate count. So because of that concern you think its appropriate to limit the First Amendment in the United States congress, we shouldnt have had this debate . Thats not what i said. I said what we need to do is ensure that everybody is counted and anything that has done damage to the fact that everybody would be encouraged to participate in this study in your Opening Statement you said the debate that took place on the last year on whether to include a Citizenship Question is harmful on the census. Thats what you said. Im asking you, you dont think that debate should have taken place, not appropriate to have that debate in the United States congress that has been done in this country since 1820 . I believe youre mischaracterizing what im saying. I believe you wont answer the question. Mr. Clay is recognized. Thank you, madam chair, and thank you for holding this hearing. Before i get into my line of question i wanted to recognize mr. Vargas i saw you had something to contribute to the previous line of questioning which would you like to pick it up . The point i was going to make was that the Census Bureau does ask in the American Community survey, how many citizens if you are a citizen but the research determines which questions you ask and when you ask them have consequences. Asking a Citizenship Question on the American Survey is a different experience than asking the question on citizenship. The researchers have determined that the better way to collect citizenship data of the American Public is with the American Community survey not fit decennial census. Thank you so much for that followup response. Even with our united efforts and an administration seeking to do the right thing. The 2010 census missed some 2. 1 of black communities. So im concerned that the current census sabotage efforts of this administration with their failure to hire, failure to allocate adequate resources and scare tactics toward immigrants will lead to an unprecedented undercount. So, i want to thank the chairwoman for shining a bright light on the issue in todays hearing. Mr. Morial, youre a veteran of several censuses. What are some of the major challenges that have led to an undercount in black and brown communities in past censuses. Historically, the undercount has resulted from the failure to count children completely and adequately, number one. The historic undercount of africanamerican men has contributed to the overall undercount in the africanAmerican Community. But let me focus, because i think its important on the 2020 census, where we are and why we are where we are. We are where we are because there has been historic over the last several years underfunding of the census. That underfunding has led to the cancellation of a number of tests that the census has done. Its meant that delay and late effort to begin hiring the enumerators. Its been delays in doing the testing necessary to ensure this Online System works well. We dont want to have another www. Healthcare. Gov with the census. So those things excuse me. Let me finish. Go ahead. So the undercount, i think if we want to focus this year on whats necessary to ensure a more complete count the enumerated portion in the Advertising Campaign have to be energized, this committee has to do oversight. I encourage when the census director comes to get to the bottom line of where they are on the hiring of the enumerators because this is the point, 60 , this is the Census Bureaus research. 60 of africanamericans are going to rely on the doorknocker to provide information. Notwithstanding the internet, notwithstanding the telephone, notwithstanding the paper form. In the numbers for the overall population are in the 40 and 50 range. The enumerated portion is so critical and if they dont hire the people they need to hire in 2010, when they were hiring enumerators we were in a recession. Now the situation is different. In 2010 you could go to Census Office and apply for a job. Now you got to go online. All these barriers we need to get to the bottom line in terms of where it is in order to ensure. And i appreciate that response. In your opening remarks you mentioned the Media Campaign. Can you talk about your concerns. Right now the Media Campaign we had a chance to look at some an early look at some of the commercials focused on the africanAmerican Community. Some of them are pretty good. However, if the advertising stops when the enumerator followup portion of the census begins to take place then there is no advertising telling you people could have this perception that the census is over, so they need to expand the advertising for another what is it 45 or 60 days so that you have advertising taking place during the entire period that people have the opportunity to respond to the census. This is an alignment issue. So, i again, encourage and its also necessary for the africanamerican population that the advertising not overly rely on digital ads, that it includes radio, that includes Community Newspapers and the like. I encourage you to probe this with the Census Bureau. My time is up. I hope my friend from North Carolina understands that the key is communication with the public. I yield back. I will never the gentleman from the great state of North Carolina is recognized for five minutes. I thank the gentleman from missouri for his congenial way of where he communicates. I miss his red glasses. I dont see your red glasses. You got gray ones. Let me get to the bottom line on all of this and hopefully we will offer a little bit of help. Ive conducted more census hearings probably than any other member of congress in the Previous Administration and this one. What i do want to get is an accurate count. So im going to offer a few things you can consider. Mr. Allis. From a native american standpoint if you will help us with the rolls of a few tribes where we can do sampling to make sure we are reaching those underserved areas. I happen to have i believe i had the First Congressional Office on tribal lands in the history of our country. I acknowledged their sovereign right. If you will do that and get that to us wed be glad to do that. One of the concerns i have, just bluntly, is reaching those underserved areas because internet is not available. Were talking about 5g yesterday. In most of my district id like 4g. If you would do that i would appreciate that. Mr. Morial, one of the areas i think is key is if there is false information thats being put out there in predominantly urban areas thats not something i have an expertise on, but if you will get that to us, heres what i would ask of you. Ive traveled under the Previous Administration with enumerators out of the field. One of the few members to do that. I understand the challenges but the other thing is, tv advertising is not going to reach the people that we need to reach. I think all of you will agree with that. What i would ask you to do is come up with something where we can do direct, text messaging, they might not have Internet Service but they come in contact with own of these. With credible sources im willing to work with you. We spent over 500 million trying to do outreach. Some of that has been misallocated in terms of areas. Im willing to work with all of you on that particular issue. Mr. Moore, youre giving us a great roadmap for Rural America but youre not getting any federal funding, are you . No, sir. How many of you are getting any federal funding, either directly or indirectly, with your groups in terms of outreach . Raise your hand, anybody . We are spending 500 million in outreach. In my commitment to each one of you is if you will reach out to me ill work with the committee, but we will work with the Commerce Department because i met with them more times than i care to mention over trying to get an accurate count. If you will do that, mr. Morial, i will help you, mr. Allis, if you will help us with native americans, certainly some of the other areas i dont have as much expertise. We dont have a large asian population in western North Carolina but at the same time, im sincere about getting an accurate account. When we start to focus on this Citizenship Question we are making drastic errors and mr. Morial, i think you agree with us, we undercounted in 1970 we undercounted in 1980, we undercounted in 1990, we undercounted in 2000. There was a Citizenship Question then and to suggest that somehow its uniquely 2020 is just not accurate. Im a numbers guy and im willing to work with you, but if you all will work with us on how we can reach these underserved and hardtoreach communities we will get an accurate count. Are yall willing to do that . Am open. I think when the census director is here, i think the extent and magnitude of their outreach should be probed. I had the previous census director under president obama here and i expressed great concerns that we were not going to be ready and i didnt want there to be egg on my face because they were not asking for enough money. We have funded the census at levels that are unprecedented. Its not a problem of money, its a problem of allocation and if all of you will agree to help us with that, im willing to call a fivealarm fire to make it work. I want to make the Census Bureau does not fund a communitybased outreach. I beg to differ. They dont fund organizations. But we fund groups to actually be the on part of it i can promise has a line item. I actually talked to the groups. We will be glad to clarify that. None of us . I now recognize congressman conley from virginia for questions. I thank you, madam chairwoman. Welcome to our panel. I want to go back to an assertion made earlier and ask particularly you, mr. Yang, to respond because the Ranking Member would have you believe that for some mystical reason democrats dont like this Citizenship Question and its a piece of data we really need. I thought i heard from your testimony that in was a more maligned purpose to add a question. It wasnt democrats who objected ultimately, it was a court of law. It was a federal judge who decided that and he was upheld by the Supreme Court ultimately. Because the Commerce Department in its eagerness to add this question, which we now know from the release of emails, was politically inspired to depress and suppress cooperation with the census deliberately to create an undercount of minority populations, especially ones you are talking about maybe you represent, mr. Yang, the Fastest Growing population in my district is asianamerican. And the fastest piece of that is asian. We want everyone counted as the chairman said in the Opening Statement, citizen and noncitizen. The constitution requires it. And fairness demands it. I want to give you an opportunity is this some conspiracy by one of the two Political Parties to avoid getting data on what otherwise ought to be a simple analytical tool, a question about your citizenship status. Thank you for that question. Im proud to be a constituent of yours. God bless you. And this goes to what mr. Vargas was saying. Let me correct the record first with respect to the Citizenship Question. Its incorrect to say the Citizenship Question appeared on every decennial census for 200 years. Its factually incorrect. It has appeared on the American Community survey which asked mr. Vargas has testified is a completely different instrument that has been tested. It doesnt go to every household. It goes to 3 of households. Mr. Yang, am i correct, the last time it was on the actual census was 1950. Thats correct. That 1950 is 25 years ago. If we can only wish. Thats correct. Thats correct. And again, the concerns that we expressed in litigation and all of our groups expressed was that this question was proposed with no testing and already understanding, the Census Bureau itself research had already presented to us that there was a fear within the immigrant community about information that was being collected about them. To suggest that this question should be just introduced willynilly without testing caused great concern to us. Certainly during the course of litigation as is public now have documents uncovered for mr. Hossler that people testified to earlier with respect to the fact that including Citizenship Question could cause be politically advantageous to nonhispanic whites. Certainly for my community, mr. Vargas community and many of our communities that is deeply troubling fact. And you also raise the question of other languages, and although clearly an effort has been made to try to expand the number of languages in which the census is presented, given the the pluralistic nature of america and the diversity of so many of our communities including the one you and i live in, were over 120 languages are spoken. What do you recommend we try to do to maximize participation and get over the language barrier. Thank you for that. Its ultimately the objective for the decennial census is to ensure we have a full and accurate count of all america. What i would offer is even closer coordination with the Census Bureau. We talked about some of the different aspects in which closer coordination can be helpful. One of the benefits of technology is that we will have a realtime information about jurisdictions in areas that are not responding at a rate that we would want. So at that Point Community organizations should work with the Census Bureau to figure out what is the best strategy to follow up with those communities. And thats not a device that would have been available in 2010 or 2000 to the robust we have now. With respect to languages, mr. Vargas spoke openly about a number of them i would add one more which is a ministers, pastors, churches and ensuring they are part of that trusted Messenger Community that can get Accurate Information and language information for many of these churches to those communities in a way in which they would respond. Thank you my times up. Thank you, madam. Id like to begin by thanking each of the panelists for being here mr. Moore, yall are doing a fantastic job in south georgia and im deeply grateful for the leadership you are exhibiting there. And madam chair, i would like to ask unanimous consent to add to the record is mentioned a Powerpoint Presentation none of us got to see. Without objection. Thank you. It is interesting to me that we are all of us on both sides of the aisle agree thats whats most important is to get an accurate count and yet, what seems to hijack every one of these census hearings is the Citizenship Question and, again, i would assume that everyone in this room would agree, its important for us as a country to know how many people here are citizens. Thats about as basic as you can get. Its important for us to have that information. How we go about getting it is i suppose theres multiple ways for that to be done. But what i get annoyed at is how that issue is used really to attack the president. And i dont think thats fair. I think thats unnecessary and theres no reason for us to create an atmosphere of attacking the president on something constitutionally based as the census is. So i would just urge my colleagues on the other side to just take the politics out of this and lets try to get to the issue of an accurate count. Mr. Moore, with that, im grateful for the work that you are doing in south georgia. Just from a broad perspective, how important is the impact on Rural Communities of having an accurate census . Thank you, congressman. Its critical. Especially for us. I live in a city that has 46,000 population. We are all working on the same primary goal, its a large agricultural community, we have a large migrant hispanic population and one thing that really attributed to our success in 2010 was we had a lady named bertha row jazz rojas. She did prenatal programs financial programs with a lot of the migrant populations and they trust bertha so she was on our complete count committee and if she told him it was something needed to do, they participated in the census. I think they even learned from that so this year on the committee theyve got representatives from subgroups. But its critical. We talked about it briefly early on. The census data impacts everything we do from an economic developing perspective. From an Economic Development perspective, how does the census impact economic it creates jobs. Ive been in development for 25 years if you got an industry thats looking at your community there they want to make sure they have people there that can work. You want to make sure you have consumers that can purchase your goods. They want to go to communities that are growing. Im extremely competitive. I always wanted to win the deal. I always wanted my neighbors and everyone around me to do well too because companies dont look at county line, they dont look at city lines they look at market draws. For a workforce perspective we had 21,000 workers in Carver County but we had 185,000 drive. Its critical education, healthcare, Economic Development, your grant data for roads, water, sewer, bridges, it ties back. I think its important for all of us to understand that the census has a great impact not only to just our country but on Rural Communities in particular. With that this move this go around to go more online oriented, what is the absence of broadband in so many Rural Communities, what kind of impact will that have in getting them accurate count . With us we worked on the awareness and education statewide, really, we know which areas dont have broadband. We already know theyre going to get a written form of that initial mailing that comes out march 12th, and they will also get another written form in the fifth mailing that will come out april 8th. Weve also made arrangements for citizens we talked about wednesday night suppers at church having tablets where people can fill out the forms. Festivals having opportunities to fill out the forms. Library, farm bureau, city Council County commission, anywhere people congregate. Making it easy for them. I think thats whats really critical if you explain why the census is important to them and their families in their community and tell them what it is what it isnt, most people will voluntarily fill it out. I heard some low numbers earlier for the Response Rate before people come to the doors, we got maps on all 159 counties and many of our counties have gotten 80 to 85 volcano tearily response. You have a low turnout and low Response Rate. Thank you. I yield. Thank you very much. Ill call on mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you so much for calling this committee. Thank you to our panelists for being here. Im so glad that all of you are so committed to an accurate census for 2020. I think one very Important Institution for having an accurate census are our local Public Libraries. My family and i are big fans of local Public Libraries with three kids you have to be. 14, 10, 3. I joke with a teenager and toddler im ready for anything in congress. But we have a few Public Libraries in our area, gail gordon public library, Bloomingdale Public Library and the Schaumburg Township District Library doing an excellent job of going above and beyond to make sure that hardtocount communities are actually counted during the census. With that, ms. Gupta, can you speak to the Services Offered at libraries that could help hardtocount communities respond to the seb us is online. Such as computers and wifi access. The libraries are all over the country, some critical partners and institutions rooted in local communities to help get Public Education out and providing services to communities around filling out the census. And the American Library association has been working with our coalition and members of this Committee Regarding the bureaus plan for mobile Questionnaire Assistance Centers and other key issues. We have expressed concerns about what the bureau is doing around the lack of information where we have around where those mobile Questionnaire Assistance Centers are going to be. The libraries are going to be incredibly important. We have a map even shows around the country where libraries are in hardtocount communities. We can actually do very targeted the bureau can do very targeted outreach based on mapping within hard to count communities. Mr. Yang, efforts there have partnered with local schools where over 100 languages are spoken in our local public schools. What are some of the challenges you see in counting people in places like my district where theres such a wide diversity of languages spoken and how do you libraries help facile at this time. Certainly libraries. Public schools play an Important Role. Theyll be able to tailer their needs. So my School District offers many languages that are not offered by the Census Bureau. Working with those schools i like you have Young Children are rely on what we call thursday folder. If i dont read all the mail that come with respect to advertisements i will Read Everything that comes from my child. Provided by the teacher. If they have statistics in schools classes and other programs that allow the census information and i know the bureau is working with the school to do things along those lines. Mr. Vargas, one of things we fear because of the Citizenship Question or the mention of it previously is kind of the fear of institutions. Do you sense that maybe immigrant communities might be more apprehensive or fearful of using their local Public Libraries in light all of the discussion around the Citizenship Question. Congressman, i havent seen any data about immigrant perception in the Public Libraries but i have seen data where immigrants do find credible messengers among schoolteachers, healthcare providers, local Community Leaders, faith leaders, so we need to engage those leaders in our communities as census ambassadors as well. How are we doing that by the way . We are doing it ourselves through the efforts that each of these organizations represented here are launching their own campaigns in our communities and we are closely coordinated with the Census Bureau. What we need also is for the Census Bureau itself they have the resources we dont. They have 500 million they are allocating toward campaign, that campaign should clearly educate the American Public about what should not be asked on the census so that we can help them overcome the fear about providing the government with information that they perceive may be used against them. So we need the power of the Census Bureaus resources to do a much more thorough education job of the American Public so that they can be confident in participating in the census. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you, chairwoman. Thank you. Thank you. Before i begin my questioning about my concern for an undercount in Rural America, especially rural kentucky, madam chairwoman, with all due respect, i wanted to correct an inaccurate statement that you made in regards to the president want i wanting an inaccurate count. Thats not true. The president represents a majority of working, taxpaying americans who simply want to know how many citizens reside in the United States. Who are not legal american citizens. That has absolutely nothing to do with the final count. Every person residing in the United States will be counted in the census and that will be applied to the electoral college. I wanted to correct that inaccurate statement and i also want to shift gears and talk about my concern for undercount in Rural America. A 2016 American Community survey showed my Congressional District, the first Congressional District of kentucky, as having the greatest share of households with no internet subscription or only dialup connections. Im sad to say 29 5 of the households in my Congressional District, which is extremely rural, have either no internet restriction or dialup connections. Thats an unfortunate situation i place a lot of blame on the last two kentucky gubernatorial administration. Its something my office is working really hard on. Rurm Internet Access. We strongly support it in my congressional office. But as the 2020 census approaches i echoed the concerns that others have raised about constituents being reached in hardtocount areas. Especially Rural America. The 2020 census is the first time americans that will be able to respond using the internet. I want to ensure those with lack of internet and Broadband Connectivity arent left out. I think we would all agree that Rural America, where the overwhelming majority where lack of internet is, is overwhelming republican. Weve heard a lot of people express concerns about an undercount in different communities and i just want to echo my concern about an undercount in Rural America. Also, ive learned that the most difficult population to five. Mr. Moore, why do you accurately count are children under the age of five. Mr. Moore, why do you believe children are undercounted in Rural Communities . I think it could be any community. And this isnt the real example but its one that is realistic. You may have a single mother that has three children in her household and her landlord may think theres only one child in that house so, when they get that question and it asks how many people are living in the house, they may either not answer it all or not be accurate on it. So you get an undercount in that situation. Where it really impacts us from a Community Development level is our schools use that census data for planning. So theyre looking at that census data and theyre expecting 100 kids to show up for kindergarten the first day and because we dont have an accurate census count 200 children showing up the first day and then you got class shortages, teacher shortages, you dont have enough books, you dont have the materials. Thats one example. That is something we share with other people so they can try to address that question if it comes up. Its critical that you very diverse large complete count committee that can work with different demographics in communities that have influence and know the answers to the questions and i think weve all set it if people know what it is and what it isnt, most people are going to voluntary fallout consensus. Its the fear that keeps them from participating voluntarily. You mentioned in your testimony the efforts that you made in georgia about recruiting census workers and i just had someone in my District Office trying to recruit more workers. My last question. Whats being done to prevent fraud from census takers, either intentionally overcounting or intentionally undercounting residence because i know there are a lot of groups in america that are really doing their best effort and we are too to try to get every Single Person counted for obvious reasons. U. S. Census workers are credentialed and i cant necessarily or accurately address that question but i will tell you something that ive shared with many of our smaller communities and briefly i know we are over time. Census takers from atlanta, birmingham in our community and walking door to door. Thats not a good thing. Because theyre not familiar with the community and the nakdz. Theyre not interevested. Right now is encouraging all of our complete count committees to come up with a list of potential employees and volunteers that can apply for those jobs that weve got somebody local thats vested they know how important it is for their community, they know the neighborhoods better i think somebody mentioned not going into a neighborhood because they didnt feel safe. You have a lot higher Response Rate if you get local people hired in those positions. Madam chair, thank you very much. Madam chair, thank you very much. Thanks for calling this important hearing. Successful voter turnout in an election depends on public trust that peoples vote will be counted fairly. And a successful civic turnout in a census also depends on public trust specifically trust that our information will be kept secure and that nothing that we write down, no information we provide will be used against us. And this trust challenge is a difficult one in an age of social mediadriven conspiracy theories and Russia Propaganda Campaign to sew distrust among americans in our society and just the general background levels of paranoia about government and politics. That places an extra burden on government. To bring a positive message about democratic government and constitutionally established practices. Ms. Gupta, let me start with you. How do you think a lack of trust in the privacy and security of the census could lead to an undercount in america communities . Well, i think theres no question that a lack of trust in privacy could could have people basically chill participation in the census if they feel if their data will be misused or turned it over government agency. The organizations sitting at the table have done so much Public Education. We believe the bureau needs to do more Public Education about the existing federal laws, very robust, that guard confidenty. The lear is clear as day. That as my colleagues have said that the Citizenship Question may have grave mistrust for the motive of the census and that is what we are all seeking in our local communities and campaigns to overcome. Very good answers as i said. The federal law could not be clearer. The they conducted a survey on hard tocount communities which found 28 of respondents were very concerned their answers would not be kept confidential. Those that were truly concerned and so as youre pointing out, none of that could happen under the law. Sending a message no information you put on the census can be used against you. I ask for consent for the report of the consensus bureau. Without question. Mr. Morial, what might keep your constituents from filling out a census form . Confidentiality in the age of the internet and social media, are elevated because of what occurred in the 2016 election and what people hear about hacking. Its very important that we push back against that, through Public Education, through positive messages, to assert that its the law that the information that the census collects is confidential and its a violation of the law and a violation of the criminal laws to expose that. I think its important that the census and any other agencies be vigilant and closely watching and that well be closely watching and report anything untoward that we might sense. But we got to encourage confidence by people as to what the law is to push back against this because it does undermine peoples willingness to participate. As you mentioned across all. Mr. Allis, can you describe how trust levels in the federal government in Indian Country might affect census participation particularly there . Yes, thank you, congressman, for that question. So theres no mystery and Everybody Knows. Historically Indian Country has had distrust toward the federal government. Given the way the government has treated them. Its impacted negatively by the lack of proper attention given to education. The native population understand the purposes of the census, what it can do, what it cant do. How to properly fill out questionnaires and even more important is the communicators that interact with Indian Country. Are they knowledgeable enough to understand the culture and traditions in an appropriate manner in order to communicate and navigate within a very unique population. When you get folks that dont have that familiarity theyre not trusted voices do you think the Census Bureau is attentive to that concern youre raise sfg. They identified that as an issue in their own background. We have yet to were concerned about the proper resources when it comes to a number of enumerators, who they are, are they prepared to go out there and be able to accurately interact with the community . As we have heard from some of the others we know that applying for these jobs in this particular census has become much more difficult, its online, its a longer process, a longer vetting period, and were not certain that this particular trust aspect within Indian Country will be addressed properly because of that. I think my time expired. I yield back. Mr. Grothham of wisconsin is recognized. The first point id like to make, im a little offended here. I think one of our Witnesses Today said President Trump is aeptimmigrant. In the most recent year available, we had 156,000 people sworn in in this country legally. The highest its been in several years. To call a president antiimmigrant when that happens is a partisan slam and not true. I believe it was mr. Vargas who said that, im not sure. But at least in my district, i think a lot of them who are very proimmigrant but dont want them breaking the law. As you feel you represent the National Association i just want to make it clear to anybody else listening out there, at least in my district people of south of the border do believe in oh baying laws. I object the idea that President Trump is antiimmigrant because hes for enforcing the law. My next comment is that seeing the groups before us today and i believe theres an effort to permanently divide america. There are conflicts in this building. Conflicts by occupations. Gun owners are always under attack. The knights of columbus were under attack a year ago. The ongoing conflict between taxpayers and taxpayers and tax takers. But i think it creates a false narrative going on in america is disagreement by racial background. I disagree about that. Thinking about that over time, i think, do to inter marriage, its going to become apparent. Theres a con flight. How they should fill it out with a mixed background. I can think of several people i know, one half latin and one half direct european ancestry. How should you fill out the form . Well ask ms. Gupta that. Well ask that. It allows you to selfidentify as to your question around racial background and ethnic background. In other words. Ill give you an extreme example. We have a woman running for president right now, elizabeth warren, very proud. She held a press conference that she was 164th native american. Apparently she used that when she applied for a job. Do you think its appropriate that she would form out the form. I think it should be Accurate Information. Well ask mr. Allis. To be a member of a tribe i dont know about your tribe. Lot of tribes you have to be at least onequarter the background of that tribe. Threequarters Something Else. If somebody whos onequarter native american ancestry and threequarters european ancestry would it be appropriate for them to fill it out european and would it be appropriate to fill it out native american . How should they fill it out . My tribe is located just north of your district. I know. If youre a member of a federally recognized tribe you have the absolute right to represent yourself as a native american. As my colleagues on the panel have accurately stated and which the number of consultations that ncia has conducted with Census Bureau, when that question has come up with Indian Country audiences, the answer has been you selfidentify in a manner that you think is appropriate. Which has caused some level of confusion. But its the standard statement thats made by folks at the u. S. Census bureau when addressing that particular question. And i will make a little adjustment. Theres no difference in a particular tribe if youre a tribal member and youre enrolled a quarter member or threequarters member youre a tribal member. I understand. Im just saying the average american the afternoon american, i think, if you had a friend who was threequarters european ancestry and one quarter native american. I dont know, they okay, thank you. Can i just clarify something very quickly. You can check multiple categories if you identify if in that manner. One thing about that, congressman. Theres a lot of quarter blood American Indians in the country. Most of the roles that you have to trace somebody as far back as the late 1800s. Congressman, i would suggest that a quarter blood over three to four, five different generations is a significant amount of American Indian blood in any particular person. So whether somebody is a quarter indian or threequarters Something Else is a really kind of interesting way to look at it to question how somebody would identify themselves. Thank you. Chair now recognizes congressman bsarbanes. In many respects with empowerment and justice and dignity and respect. Mrz gupta, you are here a lot testifying. Youre here because of a Leadership Conference with fundamental ed a vadvocacy on t issues. We have had the opportunity to work closely on efforts regarding Voter Suppression. It occurs to me that Voter Suppression in attempts to reduce census participation are two sides of the same coin. Theyre about pushing people often times in minority communities out of our demsy when we need to pulling them in, when you think about it, the two most fundamental ways or opportunities that people in this country have at empowerment are to be counted at the polls and to be counted in the census. Thats the way somebodys able to stand up and say here i am. I count. I matter. My voice is important. So im very concerned about something that i believe you referenced in your written testimony, the potential for censusrelated disinformation efforts. We talked about the importance of getting good education and information out there. Why we need to lean on that as strongly as possibly as we can. We can to combat disinformation when it comes to the census process. Could you discuss what censusrelated disinformation could look like, how it can be spread and the negative effects might be. Thank you, congressman. Thank you for your leadership. Weve been deeply concerned about censusrelated decision information which seeks to persuade masses of people to kind of not participate in the count and disinformation is usually pushed by bad actors trying to propagate false information to make that viral, to scare people away from participating. And it can contain false information about who can participate, about when to participate, about how to participate and it can spread through social media and networks. The negative effect can be that countless people count themselves out. Meaning, they dont fill out the census as a result and theyll then therefore miss out on federal representation on being represented in state districts and on the, you know, being counted for purposes of schools and hometowns and healthcare and the like. We have been many of our groups have been activity working with social Media Companies around ensuring that they have as theyre developing policies to prevent census interference right now and i can say more about that. Let me ask you about that, i gather that last month facebook announced a new policy on census interference on its platform, disinformation being spread on its platform and said its not going to allow those kind of misleading posts that would reduce census participation. Can you give me a sense of how you think on that policy . Yes, the Leadership Conference and other Civil Rights Group actually pushed very vigorously with facebook at the highest level of the company to ensure and very detailed input on what requires to have a rigorous, robust census interference policy. We commended facebook when they announced their policy. Its the most comprehensive policy in the sector. We havent been commending facebook for very much recently but that was a significant achievement. Facebook announced that any content that violates their census interference policy will not be allowed to remain on the platforms as news worthy even if its posted by a politician. That was a pretty significant step for the company, they have created an enforcement kind of protocol and we want to make sure, though, theyll continue to engage with stakeholders in meaningful ways. Cocomplement their internal efforts and we have asked the company to share information theyre getting about the targets of particular Disinformation Campaign so the Census Bureau and our organizations can come in and flood the zone with the Accurate Information to make sure nobody is lost as a result. Google and twitter have both made more general statements theyll treat the census like an election but we have yet to see the detailed policies that we need to see from them and our hope now that facebook has come out with this that all social Media Companies are going to follow suit and were going to be very, very active in trying to push that both for the census and elections. Thank you very much. My time is up. Again, thank you for the work of the leadership. Madam chair, might be aed goo idea to have a hearing where we can see what the feedback is on what these digital platforms are discovering in terms of census interference. Thats an excellent. Mr. Cloud of texas is recognized for five minutes for questions. Madam chair, one point of clarification. If thats all right with you. If its all right with mr. Cloud. Gentleman is recognized. Under my questioning earlier i talked about federal funding and i think it was taken in one context not the other. So i dont i dont want any of our witnesses to perjure themselves. If they would just get with the committee to make sure you make a full disclosure on federal funding i think you were answering what i intended the question to be but i know a number of you get federal funding. You may want to clarify with the committee. Mr. Cloud is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, chairwoman for holding this hearing. A topic thats very important to our oversight duties. A key function of our republic. Having representative government. I appreciate everyone here is unanimous its important that we count every individual and that we do our Due Diligence to make sure that happens. Mr. Moore, i really i come from texas and of course, 191 of our 254 countries are rural. Vast majority of my district is rural. Including a little town like taft, the population is 2,918 people. I had the privilege of visiting there the other day. I appreciate the efforts youve done. I would ask that if you could invite us to one of those potluck dinners, id appreciate that. Good home cooking. But i wanted to ask mr. Morial, do you have anything to add to the Creative Ideas to help reach Rural Counties and maybe some of the differences and the challenges versus urban counties in. Theres a substantial segment of the africanamerican population thats rural. Not completely urban. Theres a substantial part thats suburban. Theres been a dramatic shift. Weve convened some 60 organizations under the banner of the black census roundtable. Through those efforts, including people that reach urban communities. A number of Civil Rights Organizations have Extensive Networks in Rural Communities. So were using this activation strategy to publicly education about the importance of the census, the census and what the purposes of the census was for. Why the census was a right for people to participate. Do you have little practical nuggets . All the above, identify when a local government puts its might and resources behind the census. Whats essential of making a census work is the work of local government, states, cities, Economic Development agencies and School Districts. In our instance, we are encouraging local affiliates to participate in these local efforts and complete committees in an effort to do that. If i can move on. I appreciate your thoughts. You mention the constitutional responsible for what the constitution asks and you mention that anything beyond that would deter from that mandate we should not ask, is that fair . What does the constitution requires to ask . The constitution requires a fair and accurate account of all person in the United States. Of each individual. Mr. Vargas, you adprgree wit that, right . Yes, it requires enumeration of the population. It does not require that we ask name or gender or race or ethnicity. Exactly. It does not require to ask race or Housing Status or sex or relationship status or any of those things, right . So if you endorse Going Forward consideration of a census that just counted what the constitutional requires . There would have to be a conversation of what the American Community survey. It goes beyond just a head count is used by all of you as policymakers to determine how to administer policies many the United States. You. Need to know how many people are children or men and women. It will be a determination but for what purpose is the census and other services . There is been a lot of talk of this information and something that troubles me. You characterize the administration being antiimmigrant and having a campaign against immigrants, i think part of this information, we cant be complaining the vital need secure the border and to mitigate what the cartels are doing and communities like mine against an immigration policy because the truth is and i ask to submit this for the record, the hill article deportation under Trump Administration than obama. They were lower under bush and clinton. And so if we could stop the rhetoric, i think it would go really far to dissuading the fear that we see often. There is one under a group that mr. Morale if you can speak to. We have housing thats still being built and people cant come back to the community. Do you have a way to deal with that or any suggestions or mr. Moore . We had similar issues in southwest when the hurricanes hit. We have several communities dont have residents back in their homes. We are working with those communities and seeing where they can stay. We definitely want to make sure we count those families. How do you do that . A lot of local. Working through different organizations that may know someone has been displaced and making sure they dont fall through the cracks. Appreciate it. Just reflecting after Hurricane Katrina and making special efforts like in instances where they make special efforts of Homeless People. They send enumerated of where people are. It is porpt that timportant whe work in those places. Local officials know where the displace is and displace people are. And send enumerated through those areas. Theyre not at a customary physical address. It requires a special effort by the census. We know where these ecvents hav taken place. We have a census where displaced people may be of some extent. I encourage you all to talk to the Census Bureau when they come in a few weeks. Gentlemans time is expired. I yield the request of mr. Meadows out of order to clarify his point of clarification. So i want to come back to all of you. My question was not an actual question and i think you all answered it, trying to answer it earnestly and so when i was talking about federal funding, i was talking about actually some of received federal funding, we know that and so my question would have been accurately, do any of receive federal funding directly or in directly that support your census work and that way you can answer in the negative as you did or at least answer truthfully. The Leadership Conference does not. We received no federal funding. National congress American Indians does not receive federal funding. We do not receive federal funding. Thanks sir. I thank the chair for allowing us to clarify that. I now yield to mr. California five minutes for questioning. Thank you, chair women and thanks to all of you for attending on this important topic. Clearly a proper census count is a real issue and a u. S. Issue, we want to make sure we count everyone. I am represent orange county, california, in the 48th district, we have Little Saigon which includes parts of west minister and santa ana and garden road. It is an example of hard to count places and so what i want to talk about with all of you is the goal of having Partnership Specialists helping out with the Census Bureau efforts to make sure we get an accurate count in all communities. These Partnership Specialists tend to be trusted local voices who served as critical liaison between the census burreau. They have reportedly fail to meet its own deadline for hiring Partnership Specialists, raising questions of the effectiveness of the program. Can you explain why specialist is so important in increasing census participation in hard to count communities. It is really reflected of the local communities and made up of people from local communities, we are going to be much more trusted messengers as well as door knockers as well as from anyone from the bureau. The Partnership Program, historically rely on its ability to hire and have a robust Partnership Program for that reason, i would say particularly now because i think escalated fears and not only the Citizenship Question but climate for the country right now that it is more important than ever that there are full hiring and that full hiring is done and we got partners in every community in places like Little Saigon where there will be language barrier as well. Some people would suggest that the Advertising Campaign that we do and website provides significance information, suffice and you would recognize and agree that we need more of these specialist provider roles that those dont. Can you eelaborate. They are doing much more. They are in the community and trained in language and my colleague john yang can speak directly to some of the challenges will face out a robust Partnership Program. They are much more engaged at the local level, interfazing with members of the community in a way that no amount of media or communications. It is all vital that it is not going to have the same reach. We know these partnerships play an Important Role and making sure we get an accurate census count. The Census Bureau is supposed to have 1500 specialists higher by june 30th, 2019. They missed it. And understanding from the jao they missed it again in december. Mr. Vargas, what concerns do you have of the delay of the hiring of these specialists . My major concern is that there will not be enough typically to make sure these specialists are adequately trained to do the job they are supposed to be doing now. We need specialists on the ground and not just hire but to know whats going on. One of the challenges we have had is we preface specialists that are not wellinformed themselves. If i can use this opportunity to make a recommendation to the congressman from texas of the bureau community, my advise is that you should look at where in your district will people not receive mailing. Many communities will not get any mail. Theyll be hand delivered through an operation called update enumerate or update leave, excuse me. My recommendation is everybody understand what the operation Census Bureau in your district because not everybody will get mail. Specialists need to be informed about that. Not only we are behind the hiring, there is not enough time to make sure they are fully trained so they are informing the community of the census process. In another way, we want to make sure not only do we hire those committed to hire in a timely matter to make sure we have the appropriate skills set but equally important that they have the proper training so they can do their job. Is that correct . Thank you very much. I yield back, madame chair. I yield to mr. Ploud for a unanimous consent request. Thank you, chairwoman. I ask consent to be put from the record, an article from the hill. Without objection, so order. I recognize miss miller of west virginia. Thank you, chairman and Ranking Member jordan and thank you all for being here today. I heard a lot about what constitute hard to count population. I would like to offer to you a different perspective from my state, west virginia. It is extremely rural, it c contains many small communities. Places where families proudly lived for generations, navigating the state and reaching out the communities, often multiple times and ensuring that every individual is counted in the right place is no easy feet. Behind me display is a map of my district, four of the 18 counties in my district have 100 of the population living in hard to count neighborhoods. I spent last year visiting each one of these countiecounties. I can tell you how rural the communities are. Additional five counties have over 60 of the population living in hard to count neighborhoods. Thats half. Many of these counties also have lower percentages of those who mailed back their census forms in 2010 and required a costly in person followup. It is important that this Committee Considers how to address hard to count populations as we do take Rural Communities into account, mr. Moore, i have enjoyed listening to your testimony today because you have so many good ideas about how to engage the Rural Communities. One thought i had is we have a lot of food pantry as well as mobile food pantry all over our states. I think that may be a good way as well to spread the news about the census. We also have mobile mammograms to go around. Are there any unique ways that you have found success in reaching those folks . Again, i am not familiar of your district or state, i dont know why they would be classified as hard to count but the mountains. I understand that. Geography. I never thought a home of population but we do. In 2010, we had a kitchen that feeds people every wednesday night and we made it available for people making the census there before. Thats wonderful and several of our panelists have said that when we were doing our focus groups, we ask people where they got their news and information and who they trusted and who were their trusted forces. Many of them came back to their pastors if they went to church. So i would use both of those as options to do, try to get outreach but again, every community is different, what wro works in one community would not work at another. Somebody had mentioned earlier a lot of times government takes the lead and thats true. We got very successful counties where it may be family connections which is a nonprofit because with a lot of your hard account populations, they deal with a daily bases. I think thats my pifs mayerspe maybe a little different than others. What works in one community does not work in another. You got to come up with ideas and best practices and plans to help put it together. Well, much of my district because of the hills, the mountains and the geography were without the internet. You know since this is the first time people can respond online, how have you addressed the lack of being we got a lot of rural south georgia counties that dont have adequate internet, those two things, one is if youre in an area that does have internet, that first labor should have written form that they can fill out and the fifth letter will have a written form that they can fill out and trying to promote it, anything where you got a lot of people set up tents and promoted and have educational tupopportunities an encouraging them to fill oit the census. The state of georgia allocated a Million Dollars to our Public Libraries to put in computers and promotional materials. So did the homeless as well . They do, thats another great point. Food bank and churches, you got somebody that have influence of over 50 people, they need to be engaged because you want to count everybody that you can. I like your trusted sources. Thank you, i yeield back. I want to comment on mr. Moore. You brought up a lot of information about Rural American how to address it. And, the theme of libraries, i represent an urban area but we are using our libraries as a center for the he homeless othe people dont have internet. Thats a real resource that we need to build on in our Rural Communities. I want to thank you for bringing that information for us. I recognize mrs. Kelly of illinois for questioning of five minutes. Thank you for being here and thank you for your patience. I know how important the census is. Illinois has lost a congressperson every decade for five deck kalds and it looks like we are going to lose another one and if people dont fill out the census we may los , two. We do census all over. My district is urban and surburban, rural. Well be presenting the library. Also, my district there is a lot of concerns about the Citizenship Question in particular my latinex population bus they taecause th to us a lot. The Census Bureau itself because people are concerned of their privacy and october 2019, report of 2020 census operations and the report found that as of august 2019 many of the census Technology System were at risk of a missing critical deadlines, head of census day, a report stated that, uncertainty to a highly compressed time for completing System Development and testing over the next seven months, the scoop is the bureau ensuring that there is enough time to adequately test all of the new system. What concerns do you have about it . Thank you, congresswoman. As some of my kwlecolleagues ha already said. This sense of cycle, we are reaching of fewer to end tasks than ever in 2010. There is only been one end to end task that gives us a lot of data and gives the bureau a lot of data of how to show up i. T. Technology is hugely important, it brings Cyber Security threat whether it is real or proceed. The bureau have to do everything with private, federal and state partners to ensure security. We have been pushing the bureau to take necessary steps to address how new i. T. We know as we said through the Community Map where we work through partnership of the hardest account communities are. The bureau should update congress when it appears on february 12th of the status of all these tifactivities. And further i think should press the bureau to ensure that its i. T. Systems are secure. I mean just a couple of details, people need to understand also through the Partnership Program and Public Education work that the bureau does about the internet response portal and you know kind of understanding the process more, it is all of a peacemaking sure Cyber Security is strong. Does anyone else want to add anything of concerns . Miss yang, can you explain the Legal Protection . Sure, under title 13 of census act, nobody is provided to provide individualized data coming from the census form. Thats subjected to a panenaltyf 500. 500 and five years in jail. Well say this. Our experiences with the Census Bureau staff, the line level people, they take that seriously. Thats part of what mr. Vargas is talking about in terms of the Census Bureau being a trusted messenger of sorts that we rely on. Those protections are absolutely in place and thats something we do need to emphasize to our community and protect from any misinformation with respect to that. If there is one thing you would tell the Census Bureau or us of what can be done better, what would it be . Broadly . Yes. Well, we have been pushing hard and appreciating leadership and getting the funding levels. We are gravley concerned of how they are using in realtime. The census is days away in alaska of all the various program that is we know and kind of strategies to address the rest that the census is facing, it is a census thats at risk and thats about whether they are hiring at a fast enough pace or what their plan is of communications and ad programs and i. T. Security and Cyber Security and many of us addressing these issues. I think you have to put those and ask about all of those questions because they have funding now to do everything that they need to do. We believe in order to ensure that everyone is counted. Just because everyone else is gone. Two cents, quickly. I would say broadly transparency. We know there are gaps. If they let us know what the gaps are, all of us can help to fill those gaps. We need to know what that is . Congresswoman kelly, thank you. One thing thats being affected when i talk to small groups and communities, if you look at questions and there is nothing on there thats not strangely personally, you got your name and address and Bank Account Information and there is no Social Security number or nothing like that. So Social Security is a big issue and thats something you got to address with people. Once you run through the question that are on the form, they meant feeling a little bit better about it. Theyre going to have the census database and ruin your bank account and credit. Thats not the case with the data thats collected. Thank you very much. And mr. Higgins of louisiana is recognized for five minutes for questioning. Thank you, ma gdame chair. I thank you our panel listisist. Mayor morale, thank you for being here. We always spoke well of your family. Thank you. Well be moving fast here. I assure the panelists that i am moving in a positive direction for the purpose of our hearing and i am going to ask you to answer a couple of questions of yes or no. Let me clarify, i support a total accurate count regarding our census thats crucial. I support doortodoor direct mail and online census of Data Collection and i believe sort of responsibility of all of us to determine whats the best way to have a 100 accurate count. By show of hands, any of you ever worked for the Census Bureau on the street, collecting census data doortodoor. Madame chair, my next question by yes or no, please thank you for your service. My second question yes or no and this is not a got you question. I just ask for a genuine answer. Do you recognize some communities and some demographic groups culturally and by tradition hesitant to interact with those outside of their community, yes or no miss gupta . Yes. Mr. Ellis . Yes. Mr. Morial . Yes. Mr. Moore . All panelists responded yes. Here is an interesting question regarding how we move forward to seek 100 , it should always be our goal rg right . 100 accurate count. Do these American Communities that have a cultural or traditional hesitantachesitantay have the right, miss gupta . Yes. Yang . Yes. Mr. Vargas . Yes. Mr. Ellis . Yes. You may not understand the question . Does an american citizen thats a member of the community that has a tradition of hesit c hesitancy to provide data, census researches, do they have that right to resist that . They have a right, people have a responsibility. Oh, we have a responsibility. Participated in the census. Think they have the right but it is required by law that they participate. But, they have the right to resist, do they not . It would be incumbent on us t through outreach and communications and encourage participation and seek ultimately their census data that they have the right to resist. Just so we are clear on that. It was a common call of the census collection of 107. It was in 2010, sometimes we get multiple calls a day on the same census. Since 2010 have been overwhelming number of scam, money online and via email and telephone, it increased exponentially. I believe this decade past will influence great number of americans to resist the effort to collect a data. I think there is a great deal of emphasis have been placed on a Citizenship Question and the ethics of overlooking the fact that we have allow to come to manifest in our nation and an environment that we encourage our citizens on a daily bases. If you dont know the person calling outline tyou on the pho answer the phone or if you are not familiar of an email, dont open the attachment. As a nation we have get to our heads wrapped around this. One of the largest demographics thatll not be counted of the common senses is our elderly and those that feel under threat from scan or id theft. So madame chair. The gentlemans time is up. Someone responded they would like to i think you raised a relevant point reaching out to the elderly. Anyone would like to respond . Prooeviously in our focus group. The elderly is more incline the volunta voluntary, concerns about privacy and going online more, traditionally thats one dprgro that has a higher response group. If i may. So you speak to resistance. And thank you for your service. I been on ten years on the treats of Baltimore City doing what you do. As mr. Moore said earlier, one side does not fit all when you look at different areas in different districts, why a group of people may resist in one area may not be transferable to another. So your suggestion respectfully that people have a right to resist and then follow it up with a security concern based on fraud on the internet and other locations and things that runs across in their daily lives is transferable to all these resisting communities as being a primary cause or suggesting that is dubious at best. Any country resists or if it is a resistance for a whole different reason which had nothing to do of anything you spoke to, it had to do with a historical mistreatment of American Indians through a couple hundred years. Periods where they were not allowed to be vote or citizens, that covered two periods where they tried to terminate American Indian ancestry. When you look at why we may be a little hesitant and it has nothing to do with that. It had more to do with properly communicating and educating and connecting with the culture and tradition that exists on individual reservations and understanding what that is. I have to say in response to your suggestion to try to pigeonhole the panel into recognizing a certain thing of al yes or no answer and extrapolate some kind of the gentlemans time is expired. Very important issues are raise ed. I find it not shocking that a panelist would identify members of congress as dubious. Most of america considered us all dubious. Thank you. I think the question my colleague posed gives us more of a drive and a spobresponsibilit ensure that we educate and address our concerns and ensure our outreach is one thats inclusive. As members of congress, i must ensure that all hard to reach, hard to count communities are included in the common senses. The president s continued mentioning of the Citizenship Question incorrectly sparked fear in a lot of communities. Today we have the opportunity to help correct that injustice. My home district is detroit, a city, notoriously under counted for a census with a large minority of population who speaks dozens of languages. It is critical that a bureau takes every step it can ensure it reaches every population in our communities are reached. After the 2010 census, the Census Bureau reported that under counted africanamericans by 2 , hispanics by 1. 5 and American Indian and alaskan by 5 . According to the 2010 census, my district home is home to over 400,000 africanamericans, 34,000 hispanics and 1500 American Indians which equate to a district thats seriously at risk. If those under count trends could continue, my district will see hundreds or if not thousands of individuals not counted in the 2020 census. In addition to that, 10 of my district is born in another country. Our largest dprup group of resi from iraq, bangladesh and mexico and yemen and the list goes on. My home state of michigan stand to lose 30 billion for infrastructure and we are already rated one of the worst in the country and access to clean drinking water, you all know the story of flint, healthcare and education and more at the 2020 census if not properly down. I am concerned that because the Census Bureau fallen behind in the 2020 census, it may not have the Manpower Needs to conduct, follow up the operation. In november 2019, the independent inspected general of the department of congress raised concerns about hiring delays. The ig found that the Census Bureau Information Technology systems used, failed several tests and i quote, present a risk. Mr. Gupta, do you have concerns of the pace of the census hiring today . Yes. I do. I think several of our panelists do for the reason that you said which is this program was vitally important to be able to secure an accurate count. In fact, the Census Bureau acknowledged that it is way behind hiring just this week, issuing a press release stating that the Census Bureau needs more applicant of all 50 states. Mr. Morial, do you believer the Census Bureau is doing all that it can to recruit. The question that we should be asking is members of congress, what can we do because we must ask. Do you have recommendations and give me your assessment of hiring . Thank you for your question and focus. It is time to ring the alarm bell on the numeraenumerated pr. They are behind. Uhhuh. There is no strategy to catch up. They got to hire 500,000 people. Every hard to count community, whether it is in black or latin next or American Indian or Asian American, is overly relying on the success of the enumerated program. And, what they need to do is hold emergency hiring fans. They need to decouple their total reliance on the hiring system. They need to do what anyone would do in an emergency and thats to say our processes have not by utilizing the process that we fallen behind and that we need to change. Why people change fools never. If they continue along the course that theyre going, theyll not hire enough people and under count is preordained. Number two, this congress appropriated 90 million for mobile questionnaire assistant center. We have no information that a stood up, the implementation of that program and to answer this. Decisions made years ago to reduce the number of local partnership offices means that those Partnership Specialists to gain. They have a broader Geographic Area to come. So what they should do is they should go into some of these areas and set up Emergency Partnership offices, my point is as we sit here in early january, with the questions, the first letter to go out in less than 60 days, we need to ring the alarm bell and demand there would be adjustments in the approach or, or, the results is not going to be what we want. Thank you. Your time is expired and mr. Kelly of pennsylvania is recognized for five minutes thank you, madame chair. I want to get through the census information, we all know it is used for the boundary of Congressional District since the beginning of the public. It was designed for that purpose and now it is also used to distribute 600 billion per year in our community. It is very important and i want to thank the panel for being here today to discuss this issue. Pennsylvanias 12th Congressional District has many rural areas where the census would define having hard to count populations. The town or the village that i live in has a population of less than a thousand and again these areas would be defined hard to reach by the census. Looking at this, i think it is important, we look back at what we have been able to accomplish in 1969 putting a man on the moon and returning it safely to earth. We can do that in 1969 in 2020, i think we need to look at essential that we look forward proven strategies and the use of that technology that we have been able to get over the years to ensure that the Rural Communities are properly counted in the 2020 census. The mailing are set to begin in a few short months. I looked at what happened in some examples of what happened to mr. Moore with your work and in georgia, as an example of reaching hard communities, are there things what could you say more about your efforts and how those efforts help other parts o f the country count some of these areas . Again, i am going to say with the use of technology, you see that being apart of what we can build. Sorry. You mean sharing information with other regions . No, i mean the fact that with certain things we can pinpoint and i will use an example, we all use gps. So we have incredible mapping to know where homes are and know where people live. Sure. And i think that we should, we talk about hard to count populations and most of it is people under five is what i have seen. How can we use the technology to make sure we are reaching all the households. There is a lot of great data, historic information from the 2010 census, connectivity or coverage for current numbers, you also have a lot of different options. We had a program and forgive me, Everybody Knows what it is. I cant remember what acronym it stands for and we recorded every address and every county and georgia has one of the highest Participation Rate and thats critical. That determines where the male is going to go and the one that dont response and that gives you access and the numerate thathat goes doortodoor. Thats an example of what rural pa 12 looks lielke. I suggest they have a group or there will be more for me where people congregate or where people go and coming up with a plan making sure everybody is educated and aware of the census of why it is important and they are motivated to respond when they get that first mailing in the mail instead of having to get somebody to drag them into do it. You want to make it where they realize again how important it is and they voluntarily fill out the first time they get a mailing. The enumerators, they go doortodoor. Our goal is to try to have the highest percentage of people volunteering and filling out the census as possible. I know i didnt answer directly. I would be glad to share with you some suggestions and ideas we share with other communities. We try to help them out, too. What we are looking is making sure we accurately count everybody. We all run for election and we see to find out where people are and be able to mail them things and find all that. I find it shocking that we dont have a uniform system or we are not able to find that out when it comes to counting people that live in the United States. I think there are some things we can do. I wonder, more of that sharing and how do we get that share of best practice. Thats what i am going to call, best practice of parts of the country. We got plans for our 41 counties and plans for our state. We got probably six to ten counties outside the area that we wheare supporting. The gentlemans time is expired. He raised an important point to get a list of best practices that we can use around the country. It would be something that we can trooy to get the census buru together. It is an important point. I guess i would ask people of the table if you share best practices because you have all been active. I encourage you if you have done it to look at what other people are doing to solve this and we are putting together best practice. The chair recognizes from the great state of new york, mrs. Cortez. Thank you, madame chairwoman and thank you for our chair witness. Some of you have come and offered your expertise and we thank you for that. After the past year of so many developments going on particularly when it comes to the question about document status, a lot of havoc and confusion that has been unleash. We know has really created a lot of fears in the communities arnds one of the most important constitutional operation that we have to conduct. Lets clarify something. Miss gupta, will the 2020 census ask people about their documented status or citizenship status . It will not. It will not. Is filling out the census safe . It is safe and confidential. On that confidentiality, will an individuals personal information be shared from the 2020 census. Federal law prohibits the sharing of census information from other agency. It is illegal for any information to be shared . Thats right. Do we know how serious of a crime is it . Is it just a misdemeanor or very serious . It is very serious. A federal law on the subject is robust. It would be very, very serious crime. Okay. So lets talk about the potential outcome of not counting a community. So lets say i wanted to manipulate peoples ability to return the census or rather their willingness to return the census, kind of spook people out of it. Why would i potentially want to do Something Like that . You may want to do it to encourage swaths of communities perceive to vote for one party or another to stay out of the census for political gain. You may want that to happen because you dont believe that certain segment of the community are deserving of the same social services as everyone else. It is against the law written to the constitution that the duty of the federal government is to could want every Single Person regardless of status. There is a potential political motive as to why somebody would want to under count communities in the census. Yes, i would say that citizenship litigation and the Supreme Court found that motive are adding that question was motivated by partisan gain and dr. Hufler discussed for partisan gain when it should be a core Government Institution and function thats free from politics. So we have seen that there is a documented paper trail here. That the desire to scare our immigrant communities out of answering the census is to help a political gain to the Trump Administration and potentially on partisan line, correct . We have some concrete evidence of that being the case and look no further of thomas huffners memo to advantage nonhispanic whites. Let me move on. I understand your organization issued a report last may from the commission on the census. What did this report find about trust among likely census respondance in the community . Thats shared by miami date and secretary of california, her testimony from Community Leaders emphasized how overall and not just among latinos and immigrants but overall the American Public that there is a growing mistrust institutions and submitting information online. The Census Bureau understands what they are facing and working to over come which is why the resources they needed for their Communication Campaign is essential. Thank you. Miss gupta. Lets talk about the stakes here. If we dont answer the census, would that impact our schools funding . Absolutely. Does it impact funding for our roads . Yes. Impact resources for our communities . Yes. If we dont answer our census, our kids wont be able to have textbooks and teachers on the ratio they need. Zools that are being built and we also have i represented one of the most under counted districts in the country. I represent one of the most over crowded districts when it comes to schooling. I am sure thats connected as well. Yes, there are broad implications how many teachers there are and roads and infrastructures and it has real impact thank you very much. Thank you. Our next questionnaire will be congressman armstrong from the great state of north dakota. Rule communities are monolithic and they are different and diverse. I cant talk about georgia in a particular degree. I can talk about north dakota. Because outside of all the hysterical stuff which i do agree with you, challenges because of the rural location of how we deal with this. The Census Bureau defines hard to find and hard to locate and hard to persuade and these are the Biggest Challenges of rural househol households. There is a big distinction from a rural town of 200 people verses all of the people who live arnound that town of 200 people. What is one of the Biggest Challenges when trying to account Rural Communities. Again, diversity and trying to find sources where people con gate and they get their information and having their trusted voices and mentioning a little bit earlier. They may not listen to mr. Morial or having a Diverse Group that can address everybody in the community can have a greatest impact and trying to find out what was effective and what was not effective and how everybody responded to address how the census data impacted their family. They all respected to have a census data impacted their children. Most of them said they trusted teachers or a trusted voice, they trusted their pastors. Again, trying to find those trusted voices and how to come up with a plan to get that information out well in advance. I think thats what and i want to go to you, too. I want to ask mr. Ellis, how do we recruit more people from the enrolled tribe to work on this because i have done a lot of work on the reservations in north dakota and just the efficiency of having somebody from there doing it and we have a problem in north dakota. We effectively have negative unemployments. When you bring somebody from outside of those rural areas to work to do the census work, efficiency will go down exponentially higher and dealing with those issues. So congressman. Thank you for raising that. There is a lot of challenges and you are correct of rural nature of where these native communities are making it difficult. As simple not having 911. Well, and as simple as we take for granted, having access to the internet. When we align ourselves nothing. Zero. When you look at your normal methods of communications, okay . Lets just look at it in a couple of silos here. You ask how do we get people, you know, enumerated and getting people there and get them interacted and counted. How do they come from Indian Country . Census is Movement Towards filling these positions through Online Networks have complicated the issue for us. It has had a major impact and the number of people that have the ability to do that. So we strongly suggest that lets go back to the old paper way as mr. Morial mentions, it is crunch time. When congressman earlier was speaking about hiring and the specialists, enumerate, they start in alaska in two weeks and there are no native alaskans as Partnership Specialists. Zero. Which is very shocking and alarming. In part because of the enormous hurdles it is now and the wait time and how long it takes to become badged and an employee. We need to consider that. Thats an additional pile on in addition to all the stuff you and i already know about this community. That would be my question for mr. Morial. Have we looked at the number of census workers per citizen in rural areas verses urban areas . The efficiency is just significantly decreased when you have to drive 60 miles between residents. We talk about hardship specialists and thats not the only solution for me. Theyre there to give guidance and best practices and trying to help the Community Get together and be there on a frequent bases. If you follow that model, you will need more people in Geographic Area. I think we take for granted of 911 and Cell Services and internet and land line. None of those things exist in certain places and theyre capaci thank you for raising interesting points. Miss tlaib from michigan. Thank you madame chair. One of the things we have been distracted in understanding what it really means for us to just primarily do this initial round online. And i think crisis that we have right now when it comes to the census is the fact that it has to rely on broad access broad band internet. It is not just in my commune of wayne county. There are so much emphasis on investing only on having us all be online and returning theyre saying if theyre going to go online, we dont need many folks on the ground and this many offices. Secretary ross came before the committee and said he was red e reducing these offices by 50 primarily because theyre going online. Now, last census i believe it was one out of three did not return their responses in the initial round. Do you know one out of nine americans dont have access to internet . Not only that, combining that with the fact that theyre going to hire 125,000 fewer people to actually try to get people counted. All that and come pibine, for m think of the communities we talk about here, we are under estimating what this really means and the fact that this is the First Time Ever in the history of our country that we are going to go online, on the initial touch. Now, i know this and i would ask my colleagues dont use the broad band internet in this chamber or at home if you have it. Try to fill out thecensus on your own when you dont have access to that. Its, one, because some cant even afford the Internet Access. Its an ardability issue. Not only an access issue of it being available. And so i want to ask each and every single one of you all, the critical importance of understanding what this is really going to be. Resources are down 50 . Theyre going to hire less than, you know, hundreds of thousands of people on the ground. Im very fearful. City of detroit has a coalition of folks that meet all the time. Theyre trying to raise money with the private foundations and private folks, the Wayne County Community that i represent, all throughout the community, wayne county executive, warren evans, is really taking the lead and saying we have to count everybody. I appreciate his leadership on that. What is worrisome to me is unless i have folks with ipads at the bus stops or at, you know, outside of schools trying to explain to folks, guess what nobody is coming knocking on your door. Youre not going to get something in your mailbox. You have to go online and do right there on line. The majority of my residents, they use their phone. Thats not going to work. Not only that, its not safe and secure. Major change in how were counting folk this is year. If i can make a distinction, that is not your only option. You can still get a written form or by the fourth mailing, if you have not responded, you will get a written form in the mail. Obviously theres difficulties with rural addresses, et cetera. But that option still is available. Likewise, there is a 1800number that you can call to provide your responses. Thats part of the education. Part of the education certainly for the asianAmerican Community is theres a reluctance to use the online that, is yosurvey da that we did showed that paper form is still preferred in many of our communities. Thats part of our education. Again, its coordinated with the Census Bureau to make sure they understand that, and theyre starting to understand it more. Initially, they were touting how Online Internet responses would be wonderful and make everything more efficient. They backtracked to their credit on some of that messaging, but we need to continue to emphasize how closely they tie all of that together. I invite congress to make sure that the Census Bureau has the Load Capacity to intake the millions of americans going online all at once to provide their census information. I firmly believe we need a plan b and the Census Bureau needs to make sure it has an adequate supply of paper forms at the ready, should something happen and the computer Load Capacity not work, as we saw previously in health. Gov. I would just add, i appreciate you bringing up the costs. We know which communities have access to higher connectivity and the like. It is in part because of the shortages from the bureau why its been really important for us, as advocates, to make sure that cities and states are also kind of engaged in putting money toward this fight that youve got complete count networks that are locally based and rooted. And we kind of shockingly have several states that have not set up complete count committees or refused to put any dollars towards the census when we know of all the unique challenges that the 2020 census will be facing. In the places to put the positive piece on this, theres been a lot of cities and states and ngos that have been stepping up to deploy and make wifi centers available, and Devices Available in public spaces for households to respond to the census. We know its not a structural answer to some of the grave issues youre talking about. We talked about the Cyber Security concerns as well that were all very mindful of. Time has expired. Chairman, if you dont mind, i would like to submit for the record article title census could undercount people who dont have Internet Access by one of our fcc commissioners, please. So submitted. Thank you. I recognize miss porter of california for questions. Thank you. This committee has had a lot of discussion about how Government Programs are affected by an incomplete count but i want to talk about how fair and adequate census is for capitalism. I want it to create opportunities for everybody. To do that we need an accurate count. Its a critical tool that helps businesses grow, create jobs and helps them serve all their communities. Mr. Chair, i would like to enter into the record a brief of businesses and business organizations that they filed in opposition to President Trumps census changes. Without objections, so ordered. The companies and organizations that submit this had brief come from a wide variety of industries and regions with different sizes and approaches. For example, the Los Angeles Chamber of commerce, univision, lyft, ben jerrys. In this brief they say, quote, without accurate census data on which to base location decisions they also said, quote, mistakes about where to place a store, warehouse or other facility can harm not only a business overall outlook but communities that need or dont need such a facility, end quote. Its not just about whats on our shelves, the risk of an inaccurate count. The National Association of Home Builders uses census data to help provide housing market, including home build ers. Need for more housing, such as in orange county. Ms. Gupta, what partnerships have you or could you develop with businesses to reach hardtocount communities . Several organizations at this table have been working very closely with trying to get more Corporate Partners to be partners and helping to get out the count. Weve seen a number of Companies Really step up for the very reasons that many of them articulated in their amicas brief about the Citizenship Question. Companies understand the Business Case for an accurate census. They are very concerned about having any underkouvent. They rely on it for marketing decisions, location decisions and the like, as you mentioned. So, weve had some success at getting companies, Big Companies with huge footprints to get more engaged in this effort and to helping partners getting out the count. Different companies are doing a range of different things, using their platforms for marketing and advertising. Theyre using their platforms to get employees where they have tens of thousands, in some cases hundreds of thousands of employees. We also will say we need more companies to be engaged. I will just say, and i think youre hearing this from all of us. This is an all hands on deck moment, that as somebody said, you know, weve got like shape the alarm right now because this is happening. We are not kind of approaching the census. We are days away from the count. Mr. Vargas, have you tried to partner with the Business Community for outreach on the census . If so, what feedback have you received . We engaged in a number of businesses so they could do several things. One is encourage their own employees to participate in the census and convince them to make sure everybody and their spheres of influence and networks also participate in the census and incorporate census messages to their clients. Its an all hands on deck, as ms. Gupta mentioned and businesses themselves can also be trusted messengers. If somebody has trust in that Grocery Store that they go to, and that Grocery Store is providing census information, its a good thing in terms of making sure that the information is getting out there. In my district, i met with the Irvine Chamber of commerce, who made it clear to me how important an accurate count is for them. Theyre putting their own resources toward project census 2020 to inform the companies that are part of the commerce to do this work. I would hope we could make ask of the leaders of businesses like the roundtable that recently said they want to engage stakeholders at every level, to put their muscle behind this initiative. Ms. Gupta . We are engaged with the business round table on this very question. Great. With my remaining time, i wanted to highlight something thats come to my attention in my district, which is the problem of as a Consumer Protection advocate, the problem with people taking advantage of this trusted brand that we try to build in the census, to use it then to create scams. So in my district, people and in other districts people have been receiving things, saying theyve been selected to participate in a census and have given a voter number, deadline and questions that look very similar to the census but these are actually political tools. And so weve written to the postmaster general. Ive written to the attorney general of california. I tried to shine a light on that and have not received yet like helpful responses. Im going to follow up on this with the census director when he comes. I want to flag for you the importance of scam education as youre doing your outreach. My time is expired. I would like to recognize miss holland from new mexico for questions. Thank you, chairman. Thank you all so much for taking the time to be here and for your hard work on behalf of the underrepresented people in our country. Thank you for your persistence and integrity in the face of opposition, for the higher purpose purposes of equality and justice, which is what all of you are doing when youre doing this work. I need to mention something for the record, because it was brought up, raised earlier by one of my colleagues. And what i would like to say is that this entire country was once Indian Country. This entire country. And federal recognition is a process that has been established because of colonialism and for no other reason. So, regardless of whether an indigenous person is enrolled in a federally recognized tribe, there are tribes that have been denied that status by this government. It doesnt mean that theyre not indigenous. They are, in fact, indigenous and should answer the census in that way if thats how they identify. There are staterecognized tribes, there are tribes that arent state or federally recognized. However, they have a Family History that says that they are indigenous to this continent and they should respond the way that their Family History requires them and obligates them to. And so now on to some questions. The Census Bureau has had time to prepare for the 2020 census and native americans. They know the vast majority of responses will have to be done on inperson enumerators on tribal lands. Keeping in mind new mexico has largely navajos, pueblos and apaches in several diverse populations. The Census Bureau is behind on hiring staff but it took congressional intervention in my home state of new mexico to get the regional Census Office to order printed translation guides in the navajo language. The navajo population is the largest indian population in my state. And not only that, but they have a language thats taught on rosetta stone, for example. Im directing this question to mr. Alice, but i encourage all of you to submit your answers in writing as it pertains to the communities you are working with. Mr. Alice, from your experience, do you believe that the Bureau Officials understand the unique challenges for remote tribal nations and language needs . And if not, at this point, what actions do you think the bureau should prioritize to ensure a full count . And, second, mr. Allis, please give us an idea of just how important it is to count urban indian populations. Thank you, congresswoman. And two great questions. I do recognize that 78 of the native American Community of new mexico, your state, is in a hardtocount area. Significant population. So, does the u. S. Census bureau really understand our needs . Thats a tough question to answer. I dont know if its a yes or no answer or if its fair. We work with them. Its important that we need to work with them and get along with them. They have taken strides to try to address some of our issues and concerns weve articulated through the years. However, as was mentioned earlier this is not a complaint about funding. Congress has done its job in properly funding it. This is about the operational decisions theyve made. When you look at some of the things that they made, we do have to question whether they do fully understand the needs and problems they exist, and the hurdles by way of, for instance, how they are staffing their team and putting that together. And also not not necessarily communicating with any of us, you know, on the mobile questionnaire, program. How is that going to work . Who is going to do that . What is their vision for that . So although they, you know, have identified the barriers, okay, taken the time to identify, self identify with those barriers are, privacy concerns, trusted voices, language barriers and the general lack of knowledge and improper messaging, its questionable whether the operational decisions have gone to address those. How important is this to us . You know, were very unique, okay . We are a political group. We are a political body. And also were one of three sovereigns articulated in the constitution. What is the lifeblood of any sovereign entity . Its tax base. Its being able to get resources from its tax base. We dont have that option. That doesnt exist. We dont have that lifeblood. Our lifeblood is the federal funding for all for education, Economic Development, infrastructure that has been promised to us in treaties and trust responsibility. And that funding is directly impacted by the census. And if that doesnt come off right and if were not properly counted, our lifeblood is cut right off. Whether youre a tribal sovereign government, state or federal government, whether youre a human being, you stop your lifeblood, you die. Thats what separates our Indian Country from our partners that people need to really understand. I would like to recognize ms. Presley of massachusetts for questions. Thank you, mr. Chair. I represent the massachusetts seventh. And boston makes up the bulk of my district. Out of the 107th cities in the country its ninth in hardest being count. Its one of the most unequal in the country and that is certainly true when it comes to health outcomes. And so census data is used to allocate hundreds of billions of dollars in health care programs. Most people are unaware that includes medicaid and chip, the Childrens Health insurance program. They provide coverage to millions of families working to make ends meet in the United States. Ms. Gupta can you explain how census data provides information for chip . These really large federal programs will be able to allocate dollars per person in districts and so literally an undercount of people in your community will result in smaller block grants being given through these programs for kids to get the health care that they need and, of course, we know also about Health Care Disparities already. So the consequences of an undercount in communities, the health care consequences are going to be that much more dire. Could you elaborate on that, how failing to count communities would further entrench existing barriers . Theres a wealth of information showing the degree to which Health Care Disparities hit lowincome communities, communities of color at a highly disproportionate rate. When you think about if youre thinking about structural issues, like the allocation of federal dollars to support programs that are specifically targeted to address those gaps and close the cassem, if there is an undercount of those very communities it becomes a vicious cycle, an undercount of those very communities, dollars allocated for the programs to reach them are undercounted and thatt becomes a vicious cycle. What does it mean for latin communities that are already underinsured at disproportionate higher rates . The irony is that when a community suffers an undercount, the Services Based on census data then are even delivered less so to those same communities. So, take the example of very young latino children. They are the most frequently undercounted population in the country. 400,000 very young latino children ages 0 to 4 were not counted in the 2010 census. All the data, all the programs designed to benefit very Young Children are off. Because the numbers are wrong. If your numbers are wrong, your decisions and funding allocations are wrong. Thank you, mr. Vargas. Is it your opinion that this could disproportionately worsen health incomes in the black community on issues like mortality and other Health Disparities . All across the board, every si Single Health disparity would be exacerbated by an undercount because the list and the range of programs that rely on census data for the allocation of funds is long and deep. I think its approximately 800 billion in the federal budget t stands to reason whether its medicaid, medicare, Childrens Health insurance programs, head start. You could go down the line. Its so essential. We need to communicate that to our communities. Its so essential everyone is counted. The impact is political when it comes to reaportionment, of every Single Office in the country for whom the people are elected by districts. The impact is economic, because it affects 800 billion. The impact even goes beyond that. The framework used by the Media Companies. Our own state of black america report is based in large part on census data. Thank you, mr. Morial. With my remaining time ill ask if any of you have thoughts in 20 seconds, whether or not incarcerated men and women should be counted and included in the census from the Home Communities theyre from and not where theyre warehoused. Yes, yes, and yes. Let me say this. We had the Census Bureau reversing this just before the 2016 election. The 2016 election impacted this. The Census Bureau was on the verge, because we advocated for many years that they changed where those who are incarcerated were counted to their home districts. The election impacted this. It is not fair, it is not appropriate for those housing facilities to get Additional Resources as well as politic al power because they just happen to be the place where incarcerated people are. This is an and i urge congressman clay has a bill that would reverse this. Yes. Hes not here, but his seat is there. We need to make a priority to push that bill through congress so that this is not the case in the 2030 census. Thank you. Thank you. Time has expire d or frozen n time. Like 14 seconds for a minute. I would like to recognize miss wassermanschul wassermanschultz. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for your work every single day. A paid Media Campaign that includes targeted, hardtoreach, hardtocount communities so we can increase messaging around the census because that will obviously increase participation and make sure that more robust funding is available when we know how many people weve not been able to reach. This culturally sensitive advertising is cyclically vital in a diverse district like mine that includes latinamerican migrants, whose trust in government has been seriously eroded due to the Trump Administrations attempt to pose a Citizenship Question. Broward county, considered among the hardest to count counties in my state. Theres gaps and questions about Media Coverage in my own Community Just like it across the country. If not properly engaged around the importance and timeline for the census, it could lead to a significant undercount. Theres a question mark in florida over whether or not we will add one seat or two seats to our congressional delegation and this Media Campaign could make a significant difference in whether its one or two and then if you have more elected officials representing your state, more advocacy, more resources, to say nothing of the advocation. So, mr. Morial, its good to see you. Really glad youre here. One thing im concerned about is that theres likely a gap in the outreach budget that the administration has announced to count africanamericans. What effects could that have . An undercount means allocation of federal funds is going to be affected. It goes all the way down the line. It affects city council seats, justice of the peace seats in rural areas, not to mention members of the state legislature, members of congress and in the 40 states that elect judges, some elect judges from districts. All of this could be affected by an undercount and is of particular concern for africanamericans and other communities. Our populations are growing. And we want the census to capture the growth in our populations and that to be translated into the reaportionment process noorks the process of how funds are allocated. Its important that the count be complete and accurate. To be clear, specifically, like you said, africanamerican population is growing. If theres an undercount because of the way redistricting works, you have decisions made about where, in a state or in a community a new district would be added. If you undercount the population that has grown, then that community is less likely to get representation they would have otherwise gotten, had the Community Count been maximized. And when you add to that the fact that we dont have section five for the Southern States that the time. Right. The risk is grave. Thats why were so, all of us here, i think, united, saying to this committee the power is in your hands to hold census accountab accountable. Mr. Vargas talked about a plan b. I talked about a state of emergency. Whatever is required between now and march, april, the Census Bureau has to step up its game, fill in these gaps, respond to the concerns weve raised today or, or the risk for the nation and our communities is grave. Having a Media Outreach campaign in between when the enumerators. Exactly, when enumerators begin going door to door. When i go door to door in my district if i send a mailing into that precinct announcing im coming, the open rate of the door is more significant, because theyre less fearful and more aware. Also the Census Bureau trick us because theyve got these terms, nonresponse followup and primary. Advertising campaign has to run all the way till the end. Right. Until the final day when people can fill out a form or respond to the census. Thank you so much. In my last few seconds, mr. Allis, i represent the seminole tribe of florida and clearly native americans would be a population that is usually undercounted. A lack of trust, lack of confidence in the official government of the United States. What kind of outreach are you aware of to make sure there is not an undercount of native americans . Thank you, congresswoman, for that question. As congresswoman haaland asked me to mention, what is the Census Bureau doing and what it needed to do in the Indian Country. Over the course of the last ten years theyve self identified barriers and hurdles and things that do need to be addressed, which includes language, which includes, you know, knowledge about why, whats the purpose of the census, how do you even fill the thing out . All those kinds of things. Even though theyve been properly funded, to set up their infrastructure doesnt align with addressing those specific its not just about throwing money at it . No. You talk about Media Outreach. We have a lot of issues there. Alaska starts in two weeks. They intended the goal was that this Media Campaign would have started five months ago. It started in middle december. And when it started in middle december, there were mispronunciations of the villages and of the tribes and it was just not clean. Thats them not doing their homework and working with Indian Country and creating a visibility that understands who the community is. When you have a president of the United States who, even today, continues to malign with the native American Community with intentionally derisive and offensive moniker, you can see what kind of respect they lack for the native community and lack of counting them. Mr. Chairman, thank you so much. I yield back. There are about nine minutes on the clock. After im done with my questioning, well adjourn this hearing. So i recognize myself for questions. First, let me thank all the panelists for coming. This is an issue that i studied the census when i was in grad school in 2001 and 2002. Yes, i was that dork who studied the census. But i also understood what it means, right, in the history of this country, what it meanstowhen it comes to the marginalization or empowerment of particular communities and what it means for drafting policies that reflect that change in demographic, where people live, how they live, what they look like, what are the issues that theyre getting impacted by. And thats what the census is all about. I want to encourage my colleagues on the other side of the aisle that it shuntd be used to marginalize communities, to silence voices. The changing demographics occurring in this country, i believe ive been seeing it the last 20, 30 years, is inevitab inevitable. As sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, it will occur. And there are brown, latinos that live in georgia, asians that live in the midwest as well as africanamericans that live in the northeast, right . This country is just changing. We want to make sure everybody is counted. With that, i want to ask a few questions. Mr. Vargas, youre familiar with my district. Because im a constituent. What are you hearing about the specialists within the Latino Community and are they generally fluent in spanish and are they culturally sensitive . Some are. In fact, theyve hired some very excellent Partnership Specialists across the country that weve had the opportunity to work with. But there also have been other Partnership Specialists that, in our opinion, have not been well deployed in the sense that they dont have the skill set, the language to work in the community where theyre being deployed and in other sense the timing and rush to hire people, theyre not adequately trained. Theyre misinformed about the full range of the census operation. Those are the concerns we have at this point. Thank you. Another issue that is becoming extremely urgent in california is just the growing homelessness population. It is something that i know that theres 130,000 plus Homeless Individuals in california. 58,000 in lnc. A. County alone. Ms. Gupta, what do you see as the barriers to counting the Homeless Population and do you think the Census Bureau has a strategy to actually ensure that they are counted . They are among the most vulnerable population. The bureau, in part, because theyre transients in communities and the like. And i think the bureau is really going to need to work with direct Service Providers, mobile food units, shelters, soup kitchens and the like as well as enumerating outdoor locations and some 24hour businesses to get an accurate count. The bureau does have some strategies that theyve put in place, but we have been urging them to do more with direct Service Providers in the way that i just mentioned. And also to coordinate, really intensively, with hardtocount Community Leaders to prepare a lot of Community Leaders running these direct service soup kitchens and the like, they know where these Homeless Populations are seasonally in their districts. Having a closeknit coordination will be vital to ensuring that Homeless People are counted. Wuvent things i would like to point out is that homelessness is not just occurring in california but throughout the country. Yep. And thats going to be a challenge for blue states as well as red states, urban areas as well as rural areas. So, thank you so much for all the witnesses being here, testifying on this important issue. Now its important we get the count we need. Before i end with some noun announcements, i would like to give the Ranking Member a few minutes to thank the witnesses. We had a debate at the front end and i didnt get to thank you all for being here and appreciate your testimony today. Thank you to the Ranking Member. First this is the first in the series of hearings well be having on census oversight this year. Well be sure to raise these points that you have made with the director of the Census Bureau dillingham when he comes before the committee february 12th, as mentioned earlier. I want to thank everybody for their hard, hard work. Without objection, all members will have five legislative days in which to submit additional questions to the witnesses to the chair, which will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response. I ask our witnesses to please respond as promptly as you are able. Thank you for participating. This hearing is now adjourned. Tonight on the communi communicators, huawei, to use federal funds to buy huawei equipment, andy purdy. We had to say fcc, what you have done is beyond the pail. It conflicts with the statute on which your authority is based. It conflicts with the administrative procedures act which youre supposed to follow and it conflicts with your own precedent and thats wrong. Tonight at 8 00 eastern on cspan 2. We have the votes, once the impeachment trial has begun, to pass a resolution essentially saying very similar to the 1000 vote in the clinton trial. Under the rules for the clinton impeachment trial, house managers and the president s lawyers each had 24 hours to present their cases. Senators were also able to ask questions for up to 16 hours before debating and voting on whether to dismiss the case all together or call witnesses. Once all the evidence was presented, senators then deliberated behind closed doors, leading to a final vote on each article of impeachment. Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer responded to senator mcconnell. Right now the republican leader and i have very different visions about what it means to conduct a fair trial. Democrats believe that a fair trial means that all the relevant facts come out and witnesses and documents are part of that trial. Whoever heard of a trial without witnesses and documents . Its unprecedented. But if youre afraid of the facts, if youre afraid of what would come out, if you want to cover it up, even in something as weighty and serious as impeachment, you say no witnesses and no documents. We say, witnesses and documents, fair trial. No witnesses and no documents, coverup. The impeachment of President Trump. Continue to follow the process on cspan, leading to a senate trial. Live, unfiltered coverage on cspan. On demand at cspan. Org impeachment. And listen on the free cspan radio app. Cspan 3 is live in downtown washington, d. C. Today for a Panel Discussion about selfdriving cars and how the u. S. Department of transportation plans to roll out automated transportation. Well be hearing today from senior officials in the u. S. Department, the u. S. Transportation department about some of the technology involved. Expecting this to begin shortly