Reverend jim wallace. Blessed to be here. I want to get to the book but i want to start with the christianity today editorial calling for President Trumps removal from office. Your reaction, you wrote on sojourners in your editorial this might be a watershed moment for 2020. Why . You know, i came back from the 27 city book tour right in the middle of advent. Which in our tradition is a season of waiting and yearning and longing for christ. Thats what advent means so waiting for christ is what i was thinking coming home and then an editorial appears from christianity today which is a credible magazine. And the editor who i know says that there are moral issues at stake now in the selection. Not just political. But the deeper and the morality of President Trump is what ehes raising and so to me, it was the coming of what this my book was all about, what did jesus say . What did he mean . Did he mean it. So heres this christianity today saying these tradeoffs, the transactional deals we like what donald trump was doing on some issues, therefore, well ignore all of the rest and he says this is a gross immorality of character we are seeing here. And he has he can no longer tolerate that. This was a powerful statement of morality in the middle of politics. Do you think it will have it already is. Its a crack in the wall for President Trump. When the media says evangelical they mean white evangelical because black and hispanic and Asian American evangelicals have not been supportive of donald trump so white evangelicals have in a great majority. Yet, thats changing. So the crack i would say was already there. On the road i saw this. I was in evangelical colleges and churches and megachurches and particularly white evangelical women have been really moving away from donald trump. White evangelical young people because of climate, because of those issues have moved away. So now we have this crack, it is a watershed moment, a crack in the wall and then white evangelical support is asking the deeper questions. Not just political ones but moral ones. And jesus questions. We talked about jesus everywhere. Even at the evangelical schools, i have said wouldnt it be amazing if in this crisis white evangelicals came back to jesus. By the way, we have a line for evangelical voters. 2027488000 is that number. All others can call in at 2207488001 as we have this conversation with the reverend wallace. As we talk about evangelical voters can you just define the term . Evangelical, where does that term come from . Great question on christmas eve. It comes from jesus first sermon his First Mission statement at nazareth when hes announcing his mission he says hes quoting isaiah the spirit of the lord is upon me because its anointed me to bring good news to the poor. Now the word in there is eadvantageal. We get evangelical from there. I call it his nazareth manifesto, the spirit of the lord is upon me. I bring good news to the poor. If your gospel whatever it does to your life if it isnt good news to the poor it isnt the gospel of jesus. So in this season we think of i think of marys put down the mighty from the throne. Mary, the mother of jesus. Fill the hungry with good things and sent the rich, empty away. Thats her prayer. So evangelicals means good news to poor. So what people are saying in this whole reaction, this conversation youre taking about is why do we ignore what the president has said and done about immigrants and minorities and the racialized policies and the language and words and so how we treat the poorest, the most vulnerable is in fact the test of the gospel some where evangelical comes from is a powerful thing. Yet, our evangelicals to be honest known in america for being good news to the poor, immigrants, hungry, homeless and were not. So thats a gospel issue for me. Not just a political one. Coming back to that reaction to that editorial, some of the concerns that editorial is ignoring the president s accomplishments. Franklin graham in his Facebook Post this is what he writes about the magazine that his father helped found. This is what he said the list of accomplishments of President Trump is long but for me as a christian the fact hes the most prolife president in history is important. And christianity today wants us to ignore that to say it doesnt count. The president has been a staunch defender of religious freedom and christianity today wants us to ignore that and also hes appointed conservative judges in record numbers and they want us to ignore that. Christianity today feels he should be removed from office that the false accusations that the president denies. What would you say about that . Franklin is wrong. We have had the transactional politics. We call it the Faustian Bargain that people like Franklin Graham and with President Trump give us the things well ignore all the rest. He uses the word ignore. Well, hes been ignoring, Franklin Graham, the president s treatment of immigrants at the border. The president using race divisively in all of his politics. So i understand what mark gal ya is saying, yes, there are policies that the president has done that we support that mark supports. He didnt ignore those things, yes, i support many of these policies but i can no longer ignore using franklins word. Ignore the gross immorality that we see and that graham ignores. There are women evangelical women who are not supporting donald trump anymore and when people say why are you ignoring life, prolife and they say, well, we care about life at the border as well as life in the womb. So a consistent ethic of life is necessary to care for all of life. All of life. Not just on the issue of abortion. You say that theres a crack here, theres an opening here. Why arent we hearing more from Democratic Candidates on the campaign trail about faith, about some of these issues you bring up . At the democratic debate last week, according to the transcript, god came up only once and it was joe biden saying god bless you all as he ended his final statement to the audience. Thats a great question. When you think about the democratic partys core base, they would say its African American women. Who are the most religious population in the country . So why are democrats reluctant to talk about faith . It makes no sense at all. And so republicans can say that they own religion in the election season or own god. So i have done now several podcasts with Democratic Candidates asking them tell us about your faith and values. I have done cory booker, castro, buttigieg and senator warren is coming on. Biden is coming on. Podcasts for democrats, do what youre saying and talk about their faith. Its foolish to be reluctant to talk about your faith. Do you think it doesnt poll well in the democratic primary . I think i talked to a number of democrats who feel like their party in recent times has real i ignored the issue of faith so many other christians say why are they ignoring my faith . And the good news, booker doesnt ignore the faith and Pete Buttigieg he takes about god even when he isnt asked a religious question. Like climate change. And joe biden in his deep losses in his life its made him more deeply catholic and Elizabeth Warren has her bible underlined around matthew 25 as jesus says what you have done to the least of me you have done to me. Theyre as democrats reluctant to speak it and the reason why is they would say many would say but we believe in the separation of church and state. And i agree but heres the key thing. The separation of church and state which i agree with does not mean the segregation of moral values from public life. The democrats need to get over that and not impose their religion like people like Franklin Graham tend to want to do. Impose their faith on the country. No, we need to be pluralistic, respect every faith. Religious liberty is an important value. Not just our own. I was driven here by a muslim uber driver. This old muslim man having his prayers, a wonderful man. Are we as christians committed to his religious liberty too or our open . That comes to your book. Christ in crisis. Why is christ in crisis and what does your book have to do with nonchristians . I sat here several months ago now and went all across the country so my answer to your question is having been to all of the these 27 cities and heres the good news. Jesus has somehow survived all of us christians. Theres a hunger out there to talk about jesus among people of different faiths or no faith at all. A number of my rabbi friends and imam friends tell me they feel safer when christians talk about jesus and not other things and young people would tell me theyre formerly something. Formerly catholic, formerly baptist. Yet, this jesus, this brown skinned jewish rabbi who drew up in palestinian occupied territory, hes talking about a whole new way of living. Turning the world upside down. Turning power upside down. Blessed are the poor. Blessed are those who are hungry for justice. Blessed are the meek, the humble, the peacemakers. The young people im talking to, even those who left religion, are interested in this jesus. So its a time to say we have to reclaim jesus. Hes been politicized, been silenced. Hes been sabotaged. He has been maybe marketed, sold. So i think people have sold jesus out. So i want to go back to jesus. And the book is what are his questions . What did he say . He asked questions like were you prompted questions like who is my neighbor. Thats a question that jesus prompted. And thats critical to all of our policies. What is true, jesus, you know the truth and the truth will set you free. Thats so critical right now. Who is the greatest, jesus says the servant is the leader. Not the one who just wants to as he puts it the general tiles want to lord it over the people. Wealth, winning, losing. No, whos the one whos the servant so this turns the world upside down and i just feel hopeful out there that so christianity today is another conversation. This is all changing now. Having this conversation on christmas eve, the reverend jim wallace, the book christ in crisis, why we need to reclaim jesus. 2028000 for evangelical viewers and 2028001 for the others. Good morning, katherine. Caller good morning and Merry Christmas. Im a born again christian and i have a few bones to pick with trump. He said he grabs women by the he is an adulter, and hes a prolific liar. He imprisons brown babies because theyre brown. As a born again woman, these are things that christians are supposed to stand against. And my question for you is how does trump who has had many, many people around him who have been of great character, how does he totally corrupt everybody that comes around him . Because hes a man that does not believe in constitutional law. He doesnt believe in rule of law. And he doesnt believe in a high moral standard. Well, this is the question that i hear on the road all the time. How can these evangelical christians support donald trump when he does and they mention all of the things that you just did. This is where the crack in the wall is occurring, the curtain is being torn here. Christians who are born again, evangelical like you are and i am, are saying we can no longer accept this behavior toward women. Toward immigrants. Is the racialized the racialized language. Everything is using racial bigotry and division for his political purposes. And so we are asking not just a political question. Because were on different sides of the political spectrum. And thats a good thing. Christians can have different views but its about trumps moral behavior. His character. Donald trumps policies are antithetical to the policies, the politics the politics of jesus im saying are antithetical to the politics of donald trump. I want to get your thoughts on Jonathan Zimmermans column. Instead of indicting evangelicals, my fellow democrats might pause to reconsider how we dismissed morality. Period. In 1992 we insisted that mr. Clintons personal behavior wasnt relevant to his potential as a president. Sure we acknowledged his marital infidelity was unseemly. His public behavior as president has been more egregious than mr. Trump, but character counts. In the 190s clinton defenders demonstrated our disdain by placing it in ironic quotation marks. He is right. And they spoke out against bill clintons immoral behavior. We said agreeing with the author here, character does count. Moral character is important. Whats sad, whats sad john is that in those days, evangelicals, 70 said character counts. And therefore, clintons behavior was relevant. 30 said it didnt count. Thats been totally switched. Now evangelicals about trump say 70 say it doesnt matter. It doesnt count. Only 30 say it does. This is a switch. Fundamental moral switch among evangelicals. Sojourners was one of the few publications of faith based publication that spoke out against bill clintons behavior. And the liberal left said we should in fact move on. Thats how move on was formed. We should move on and i said no. This is these are moral character issues that have to be addressed so i think the consistency and mark in christianity today was consistent. They spoke out against clintons moral character and now Donald Trumps moral character. So consistency is what people are looking for from people of faith. Sojourners the magazine is at so jo. Net. And shelly is an evangelical voter in orange park, florida. Good morning. Youre next. Caller good morning and Merry Christmas. And to you. Caller i wanted to thank you, sir, and reverend wallace i so appreciate you and i have respect that you for years and all that you have done to elevate the conversation around christianity and what it means to be a christ follower. And i dont quite know whats happened with Franklin Graham except for i believe he has bowed to the altar of power. And i would ask if you the point that you made with regard to white evangelicals as opposed to African American christians of which i am. And speak to the temple which i believe is very much the case. Because i believe the gop has coopted the Evangelical Church for political gain using wedge issues constructed around righteous topics with unrighteous pretense. Reverend wallace . Well, to be honest, sister, i was as a teenage boy i was pushed out of my white Evangelical Church in detroit over the issues of race and war. And the black church took me in. I was saying how come we live the way we do in white detroit and from what im hearing and reading in the papers i was a kid now, listening to my city, that in black detroit life was so different. I couldnt get the White Christians to deal with that. So this is racial bigotry is a gospel deal breaker. Its a deal breaker for the gos pell, why isnt it for the white evangelicals who support donald trump. So your question is my question. And democrats who are reluctant to speak about faith it doesnt make sense when you have voters, your base, African American women, women like our sister here who are the most religious population in the country and yet democrats have been reluctant to speak about faith. I hope that changes in this election season. And lets be clear. I dont want to create a religious left like theres a religious right. I dont want to wrap my i want politics to be wrapped around my faith. Heres a radical idea. That our faith should shape our politics and not the other way around. So the faith should hold us accountable. Democrat, republican. It shouldnt be politicized or just worship at the altar of power thats whats happened. Transactional politics for the sake of power. King said it well. King said the churches should not be the master of the state, the servant of the state but be the conscience of the state. We should be the conscience of the state. Not the master, controlling things or just the chaplain. We should be the conscience and thats what i think we need in this 2020 election season. About ten minutes or so left with the reverend jim wallace taking your calls this morning. Phone lines split up by evangelical voters and all others. Good morning. Caller good morning and Merry Christmas, cspan. My concern is that these evangelicals have traded their christian values for political power. You look at them going into the talk about the religion, they wave their hands and when or rather they go into the religious experience very solemn. But when donald trump is mentioned, they stand up, they wave their hands and they cheer. Donald trump has become the evangelicals calf that they have created given that they have walked away from the thank you. Well, the teachings of jesus are the most important question. Whether were going to be followers of jesus or not. I think it is a question of power and let me put it this way. I believe for some time that the religious right the Franklin Graham, Jerry Falwell jr. , all of those, ralph reed i believe the religious right will rise and fall with donald trump. They have risen with donald trump. Hes give them tremendous access to power. Thats what they seem to be most wanting. Yet, i think theyre going to fall with donald trump. And it will be because of not listening to what the brother says, the teachings of jesus. I mean, if im a christian that means im a follower of jesus and what jesus said, what he did has got to be foundational for me. So this book is just all about what are his questions. You know, what could he ask of us and what did he prompt others to ask and how do we follow him in 2020 . Is the most important question. So its not political left, right. Im saying dont go left, dont go right, go deeper. Go deeper in the into what jesus said and did and thats what this debate is all about. Justin is an evangelical and a voter. Go ahead. Caller hey, Merry Christmas. To you too. Caller Merry Christmas, i havent heard you say that. Merry christmas, blessed christmas, its my favorite season always every year. Caller youre telling me that if i vote for trump im going to hell . No no no no. That kind of talk is what we have had too much of. I trust your integrity, your faith, im saying we have to bring our faith into our politics. So all of us have to look at what we believe. And candidates. We cant vote for the kingdom of god. The kingdom of god isnt running this election, so we have to make choices. What are our values, whats our faith, and what does that mean. For example, i think when jesus says the way you treat the immigrant, the stranger, how you treat the stranger and the world in the greek means immigrant refugee, how you treat them is how you treat me, so a candidates policies toward immigrants are a christian question. How we apply our faith, ive got to apply my faith. Youve got to apply your faith, and i would never say how you apply your faith will take you to hell. Never say that. This is lynn, an evangelical voter. Good morning. Good morning, sir, and Merry Christmas to you both. And to you. I am a veteran, going back to the vietnam war in the middle 60s but i have something i have to say and ask you, sir, do you remember the Ten Commandments and i remember them and who would be our moses today. The civil war, in the middle 60s and thats all i have to say, sir, and Merry Christmas, and will you respond to that. You and i are from the same era, my brother, and back to the black churches, the black churches talked about moses, and people rising up and finding their liberation and freedom, and dr. King, im going to go back to him for a moment here, when he called the church to be not the servant or master of the state but the conscience. To me that was raising the moral issues. I want to go back to that. So i dont look for a moses in our politics. I look for people who are trying to do their own policies and values. And i want to say hear are my chris ch christian values. Heres what jesus requires me to do, and i look at their policies and i try to make an imperfect decision about which candidate ill vote for for whatever office in the country and so i just want our faith to come first and not politics first that wraps around faith and controls it. And i dont want people to say as theyre saying on the evangelical right that the only vote you can make is for donald trump. Thats foolish. I dont want to say that on the other side either, but lets apply jesuss teachings in this book, christ in crisis is going to be used by pastors around the country to say i want black and white churches to come together and say who is jesus here, whats he saying, whats he doing. That i would love to see. Black and white churches together studying what does it mean to follow jesus in 2020. Where are you headed next on your book tour . The good news is to a lot of places, its the flyover country. You know, a lot of people in the midwest and south, in rural areas want to have this conversation, and so sometimes i do a pastors conference in nebraska, missouri, kansas and theyll say, thanks for not flying over. So were going to go to lots of cities. I think about 40 cities in this next year, and try to have a conversation intergenerationally, even interfaith with people who arent sure what they believe. But lets look at what jesus said. So i want to get past the politicizing of religion and how our faith can reshape our politics. I think we face a test. I do believe democracy is at stake. I think the rule of law is at stake. I do think the separation of powers is at stake. Mostly i believe the poor and vulnerable are at stake, and so how do we become people of faith and not just politics first, faith first, not politics first, and i think that will help us raise lots of questions in 2020, and im going to be doing that all over the country. Lets keep having that conversation. Come back and talk us to again. Id love to. The book, christ in crisis, how we regain jesus. Our 2020 live coverage returns thursday on cspan 2 with President Donald Trump in toledo, ohio, at a keep ameri