On berkshire mountain there did dwell an artist man named Norman Rockwell stockbridge, in an area called berkshire county. A pretty kind of place. It used to be eithisolated surrounded by hills and mountains, not big like the alps or or rockies but big enough to discourage traveling in told days. Going west from boston you had to head over the passes on the old mohawk trail. Then you got into an area maybe 20 miles wide and 50 miles long. Like a lot of new england towns, there are the traditional white houses and neat gardens and picket fences. Thats the oldest house. Then there are the churches. And the town hall. The country around stockbridge has forests and farms. Water in good supply. They tell me it is much like the lake country in england, including the writers to go along with the scenery. Herman melvin, author of hobmo dick lived here. The theater. The ballet at jacobs pillow. And, of course, the concerts at tanglewood where the boston symphony plays. But most of the time the village life flows like the quiet stretches of the husatonic river, an indian name meaning beyond the meeting place. Im tom glaszer over there on te river on my way to visit a friend on lives on the river. His name is Norman Rockwell and i guess he is about the bestknown illustrator in america today. You can find a copy of the saturday evening post in just about every corner of the united states. Even people who dont read the magazines are familiar with the covers. Rockwell has a special meaning to his large and affectionate audience. What he paints represents the everyday hopes, loves and ideals, the fads of people all over the country. He holds a mirror of kindness and humor up to people who respond with love and affection, what they are and what they would like to be he draws and paints in stockbridge town his work has brought him great renown to rudy new rudy nay to rudy new to ridy name this is a selfcaricature of the artist as a young man. We will take a look at him now at his house in stockbridge. Rockwell works in the warn that that in the barn he made into a studio. In this building he paints a scene of small town country life. I wanted to find out about the man, what makes him tim, how he works, why he works. Were not so different really. I earn my living as a folk singer and norman earns his as, well, not a folk painter exactly but maybe a painter of folk you might say. We saw each other and said hello. Norman is pretty spry. After we said hello, he came down and helped me beach the boat. Well, we walked to the house. Norman asked me about the song i was singing. It is called berkshire mountain originally springfield mountain. It was written long ago by a fellow named nathan jary who lived a few miles north of stockbridge. The peasant bard of hinsdale he was then called. This is the room you really like to live in, isnt it, norman . Yeah, when im not working im in here quite a lot, tom. It is a very nice room. I can sigh why broyhill appealed to you. He liked to paint ordinary people as you do. Im very fond of him. He was a great painter. I call this saturday night. Maybe you cant see it very well, but theyre going to a square dance to my mind, you know. I can see it very well. It does look like saturday night. Brugill was a great painter, wasnt he . One of the great painters of all time. Im not a fine arts painter. Im an illustrator. This is quite different from painter. Thats a very important point with you, isnt it . It is. It doesnt make you less serious about your work than a painter, does it . I think i work as hard as he would, but it doesnt come out fine art. It comes out illustration, you know. Speaking about seriousness, norman, i recall somebody told me is this true back at school, at art school you were called the deacon . Yeah, because i was you know, art school is full of a lot of, you know, birds and i was a kind of serious guy and they called me the deacon. So you deserved the title, huh . Yeah, yeah, i earned it. That was the golden age of illustrators, wasnt it . Yeah. Oh, that was the great age. See the pile, edwin austin abby, remington, gibson. These are the great illustrators. Of course, we were talking about the golden age of illustration, meaning mostly books. Before then though illustrators were also used as reporters and chroniclers of their times in newspapers and other periodicals. You take carrier and ives and they employed many artists. From about 1825 or so a stream of prints came out of their shop. He was handed up his orders at monroe, virginia saying, steve, youre way behind time this is not 36 but only 97 you must get her in to spencer on time steve, he turned to his old black fireman said shovel on more coal for whenever we hit that old White Mountain you can see old 97 roll doodoodoodoodoodoo doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo i bet ive done a not more pictures than even currier and ives ever did. I dont doubt it. But i wouldnt say there was much similarity between your work and courier and ives. I guess you are right. I was influenced by pyle and fredrick remington. I knew about pyles influence, norman, but i didnt know about remingtons. Well, because remingtons work was certainly different from mine, but i liked his approach, how he went about making a picture. In fact, i have a remington in the other room. Would you like to see it . I would like to very much. Well, come on. Lets go. So we too a look at the picture in the parlor. Remington was a guy who was born in new york state and moved out west as a tourist, you might say. He didnt paint the boredom of cowboy life but only the romantic side, and in the same way norman, who was born in new york city, became a tourist in the country. I ride an old paint i lead an old dam im going to montana to throw the houlihan their backs are all matted and covered can straw ride around little doggies ride around them slow for the fiery and the snuffy are raring to go the big influence in normans life was pyle, howard pyle. He felt fortunate, very fortunate to have acquired an original which he hung in his studio. There were three brothers in merry scotland in merry scotland there were three and they did cast lots which of them should go, should go, should go and turn robber all on the salt sea the lot, it fell upon henry martin, the youngest of all the three that he should turn robber all on the salt sea, the salt sea, the salt sea for to maintain his two brothers and he with broadside and broadside and at it they went for fully two hours or three till henry martin gave to her the death shot, the death shot, the death shot and straight to the bottom went she you know, tom, the thing that i admired most i think about howard pyle was his honest and intense interest in research. Everything he did, he researched. He knew exactly what he was doing. Have you done the same sort of thing with your illustrations too occasionally . Well, i try to. Im not the great artist that howard pyle was, but well for instance in this huckleberry fin and tom sawyer. I went out to where the story was laid, where mark twain himself was a young boy. I found out out there that you see this picture here . Yes. In reading the story, it tells how he stepped out of the window and on to the drain pipe and then took two running steps on the wood shed. Yes, sir, i remember that. And then jogged on to the fence. Well, if you go out there, if you go into that room which actually exists i never knew that. You will find you can do exactly what he said in the book. In other words it was completely au autobiography. Do you actually get the authentic clothes they wear at the particular time that the illustration illustrates . Zbrel, y well, you do if you can. It is pretty hard to get George Washingtons hat, but in this case in huckleberry fin and tom sawyer in hannibal i did get the clothes that must have been the same kind of clothes they wore at the time. I see. I have this old hat here. It is a real beauty. Ill be darned. You can get a new hat a new old hat. And make it look old. It has to be sweated in and lived in. That is so old and so beat up that it looks beautiful. Yes. It is a beauty. Yes, indeed. The way norman found the models for his covers interested me very much, especially the cover that he did for the saturday evening post now known as the golden rule cover. There were a lot of people in that one, over 30 heads, all kinds of people and nationalities. Where did they come from, norman . Well, some of them came from stockbridge, right here in stockbridge, and others came from arlington, vermont. Lets start at the beginning. What made you decide to do the picture, norman . Well, tom, i realized that the golden rule was the only common denominator of all religions from the very beginning of time. You know, the golden rule which says do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Those colorful costumes in the picture, norman, where do they come from . Well, i took a trip around the world and brought back literally boxes of photographs. I also brought back some of the actual costumes do unto others as youd have them do unto you all men are brothers this above all must be true love your neighbor help each other and then the peace we have longed for will come to all men once you had the costumes, i suppose you then found the people to put in them . Yes. From around here, norman . Well, some are visitors and some are students, such as this fellow. He is part brazilian, part hungarian i think. This choi, korean. He is a student at present at ohio state university. Here is a japanese student. I got her at Bennington College in vermont. Here is a jewish student. He was taking summer courses at the indian hill schools. Thats a mile or so from here, just up the road. How about the ones that live here all year around . Any of those . Lets see. Theres mr. Lawless. Hes a retired post master of stockbridge, right here. He made a pretty good rabbi i think. By the way, in real life hes a very devout catholic. Is that so . Yeah. Now, you see this group . Theres a father, a mother and a child. Theyre the squires family from arlington, vermont. Hes a yankee and shes swedish, and theyve got i think 12 kids. I didnt get them all in the picture, but it is quite a family. This little girl here, shes a local girl from pittsfield about oh, it is about 15 miles from here. Her name is susie li. Oh, this is chris schaffer. He is my very good friend and business manager. Boy, was he surprised when he found out he was in the picture. And this little girl lives right here in stockbridge, just down the road. She is a lebanese originally. Now her parents are u. S. Citizens. Well, i got all of my middle east faces from abdullah. He runs the elm Street Market just one block from my house. I had a wonderful house. Abdullah rounded up 24 arabs. This little girl is the daughter of louie long. He helps me around the studio. He sure would have been mad if i left her out of the picture. This one is from memory. Thats my wife, mary, and thats my grandson. Everybody likes to get in, so models are no problem. Do you still have the sketches you made . Yes, i have them over here. Would you like to see them . I sure would. Welcome, come on over. Okay. [ whistling ] would you say, norman, that the golden rule cover is sort of typical of your work . Well, i guess not exactly typical. Is it like anything else you have ever done . Is well, the four freedoms that i did. You see, whenever theres a big idea that im trying to portray, i always use plain, everyday people to express the idea. I see. Well, in most of my work however i try to do everyday situations. I try for more than just humor. Pure gags, theyre no good. Theyre soon forgotten. You have to have a little pathos or a little depth in them. Take this cover for instance. The idea of an old man with a violin looking at a sax owe phone with a sign jazz it up with a sax. It is supposed to be comic, but the overtones of whether you should stick to the old ways, to the violin, or take up the new ways, the saxophone, thats really a problem. Thats what i mean. You like to paint old people . Yes. Old men show their lives in their faces. You know, the ups and downs, the sadness, the gladness, everything that happens to them is right there in their face. My favorite old model years ago was wonderful character named james k. Van brunt. He was only 52, exactly the same height of napoleon. He had been in every war that he could get into. He was in the indian war, he was in the civil war. He tried desperately to get in the first world war, and it was there in his face. You know, he was a heroic little guy. But you like to paint kids too, dont you . Oh, yes. I like to paint kids because i think people like to go back to their youth again. Uhhuh. Norman, since 1916 i think you have painted over more than 300 covers, and in all of that time i suppose the magazine has changed quite a bit, hasnt it . Oh, yes. The magazine has to change like Everything Else has to change. I have some of the old covers if you would like to see them, real old covers. Would you like to see them . Before your time . Oh, gosh. Way before my time. Fine. Oh, theres your very first cover. Tell me the tales that to me were so dear long, long ago long, long ago sing me the songs i delighted to hear long, long ago long ago long, long ago long ago norman did many covers about world war i and world war ii, but the ones we all loved most were about homecoming. Long, long ago long ago well, that was about it for the day. So i slung my guitar over my shoulder and walked back to the boat. On berkshire mountain there did dwell an artist man named man named Norman Rockwell to rudy nay, to rudy noo he lives and paints in stockbridge town his work has brought him great renown to rudy nay, to rudy noo im dr. John wettenhall, and im director of the George WashingtonUniversity Museum and the Textile Museum here on the campus of George Washington university in the heart of washington, d. C. Norman rockwells four freedoms exhibition is a