Transcripts For CSPAN3 Iran Hostage Crisis 40th Anniversary 20240713

Good evening, welcome. My name is matt abbott. Im director of development and diplomatic programs here in the Chicago Council of global affairs. Welcome to our program, today is on the record and we are live streaming. Please silence your phones though we do welcome social media engagement. Music by individuals are their own and do not represent views of the council. Before this Evenings Program begins we will here flash talk. The doctor is president of the people analytics. His work focussed on demystifying peoples behaviors and conflicts such as iran. He hails from Syracuse Maxwell school and ph. D. Of maryland. Following flash talk, ill introduce our candidates. Unfortunately, the director is unable to join us tonight. Please join me in welcoming the doctor. Hello. Hello. I appreciate the chance to be here. Hello to chicago. Its my first time here. Thanks for the welcome. [ applause ] thank you. My name is amir farmanesh. Im presenting on global affairs. It will be iranian Public Opinion for the case after the hostage crisis. So, iran poll, an independent company focusing on holding only in iran, but from canada, we are based in toronto, thats actually one of our call centers in toronto. The calling from iran has been considered reliable, scientific and as an example in your last president ial election in iran in 2017, then president rouhani iran poll was able to predict the results of the election. They sent the results of the prediction to the economists. The economist published one day before the election. Its there for you to see. Our prediction was actually between two Percentage Points of the official results. So, it is something that could be reliably used as is with any other polling. So, the polling im presenting today is used by exact same methodology, 1,000 sample size. Conducted by telephone and it was conducted in october of 2019. Its very fresh. Going into it, iranians say the economy is bad and it is getting worse. Interestingly, they blame their own government than they blame the United States or the sanctions. So, 68 of iranians say Economic Situation is bad. 54 say its getting worse. Now, 55 of iranians, they blamed the domestic economic mismanagement and corruption. Only 38 blamed foreign sanctions and pressures and as you can see, this continues to trend. That does not however mean that the iranians have not seen the sanctions. When we asked how much of a negative influence are the sanctions having on the Economic Situation of your family, we get 78 76 of iranians say it is having a negative effect. And 53 say its having a lot of negative effect on the family. Despite these more economic conditions, despite all of the pressure, still, iranian people are not ready to give in to the administrations demands. So, we propose a scenario to them. In this scenario, we told them, suppose the United States were to propose a deal whereby most u. S. Sanctions on iran would be gradually lifted. And iran would be able to have a Peaceful Nuclear Energy Program in return for agreeing to fully and permanently giving up the right to enrich uranium on its soil and to always allow International Inspection of its facilities. Do you think you would agree or not . And 73 of iranians say, no, they reject that deal. 53 strongly rejected that deal. Now why . Two reasons. Theres a classic rallying around the flag ear. Then we asked in the same survey, how proud are you to be iranian. We have 90 of iranians saying theyre extremely proud or very proud to be iranian. Gallup is asking the same questions repeatedly long ago. Right now, to give you comparison, United States, the american people, theyre 57 extremely proud to be american. The iranians are 68 . In fact, this level of saying theyre extremely proud is very similar to 11 september in United States. So when there is the real attack towards your country, you have this effect to rally around the flag. Theres another point. Iranians really believe they have the right to have Peaceful Nuclear programming, nig90 , so that helps. A second reason, for why iranians are rejecting the deal that we put in front of them, its the simple fool mepxf onc shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Its the idea that if in jcpoa, the world powers even held their part of the bargain, who says they will chip in again. So we have been asking the popularity of the jcpoa, which is the Nuclear Agreement with iran continuously. 76 of iranians used to support it now back down to 42 . And we ask another question from iranians, thinking about how the jcpoa has worked out so far, which of view is closer to yours . First, its worthwhile for iran to make concessions because they can compromise mutually beneficial agreements with world powers or the cjpoa shows it is not worthwhile for iran to make concessions because if it makes concessions, world powers to honor the side of the agreement. I want to end with good news. So, first of news, iranians really are not supportive of the Nuclear Defense program. Then we asked them, do you think iran should or should not develop Nuclear Weapons . 59 say they should not. And 66 say development of Nuclear Weapons is against the teachings of us lam. Only 18 dont have an opinion about what one says. And the very confidence about islam. Okay. The last point, iranians are not categorically against the negotiations with the trump administration. When given the option if the United States returns to the jcpoa, lifts all factions related to the iran program and is willing to talk in a forum that includes all of the p5 1 countries, do you support such talks with the administration . 75 are supporting. So the future does have some hope. Thank you. [ applause ] thank you very much. Its now my distinct honor to welcome our panelists tonight. Kate koob is a former adjunct professor who spent over 27 years in the Diplomatic Service in the United States. In 1979, she was serving as the director of the iran american society. Shes one of the 52 americans who spent 444 days as a hostage in tehran. And kathrleen is one of six americans who was extricated from iran and canadian government after the embassy seizure. Please join me in welcoming your panelists. [ applause ] thank you, again, for being here. Id like to start by setting the stage in 1979. What was the Political Climate like in iran when you arrived there . Well, there were curfews. We were limited in terms of where we could go. My question was, what does an Islamic Republic look like . That was the reason i was there, because this was the stated goal of the revolution, to establish an Islamic Republic. People were unsure, everybody was treading lightly. People who were known to have been workers for the shah lived in fear. And people lived in fear because there were people just simply yanked out of their jobs. And because of their loyalty to the shah were tried. And often executed. So, it was a very tenuous situation when we when i first arrived in july. We were working very carefully to see what we could do and what we couldnt. I met with i was the director of the iranamerica society. But i met with the italian cultural society. The german cultural director, the german cultural, et cetera. And we talked about what did we think we could or couldnt do in our cultural centers. So, everyone was walking very carefully. Thats what i remember the most. We were only there two months before the takeover. So, we had arrived in september. We had just moved into our apartment. I had all the clothes hanging over the dining room chair waiting for the housekeeper but she didnt come the day of the takeover, in fact she was your housekeeper. So, i went on to work. And we were just all excited about this is a new adventure for us. Were going to see this wonderful country that was famous for its culture and poetry and history. So, we would on weekends we were able to do little short trips go up to the caspian sea and we went up the weekend before the takeover, we made it back just in time. So kates morm memories what i like before that are more clear than mine. This monday was the 40th anniversary of the seizure of the u. S. Embassy. Can you tell us what you were your experiences on november 4th, 1979 and recent days . Well, the american Iranian Society was three kilometers from the embassy. We had our own building. This was a very strong structure and had been going well for many years. We worked together. The board of this society was both iranian and american. We had english lessons but we as had farsi lessons. So the iranian board was working with us as we were trying to figure out what the italians and french and girermans what we ca do and where we could go. That morning, we were having a Board Meeting. And in the middle of the Board Meeting my secretary ava came into the room and she said, i think you better take this phone call. It was one of my Board Members saying there is a major demonstration going on at the embassy. You might want to check and see that everything is okay at the society. And as a matter of fact, two of my Staff Members got up and went down to the embassy to see if they could see what was going on. We turned on radio and television to see if anything was being carried on the local news. And it became very clear that this wasnt going to go away. So, the story goes on from there. But it was it was aggressive from the very beginning. Wed hoped, and my personal hope was, that the foreign minute st minuteministry would do what they had done in an early demonstration, i think in february. They basically said, okay, youve made your point. You demonstrated. This is an embassy, these are diplomatic grounds now, lets be on our way and now we could settle down and see what was going on. That didnt happen, obviously. Back at the ranch, we were closed. The visa section was closed to protest the fact that there had been lots of graffiti down with america, death to carter, written on the walls of the embassy that weekend. And so, we were protesting and we had had no visa applicants that day. So, i thought this was a good chance to go over and get my diplomatic i. D. Card. So, i walked across the compound and turned in my passport which meant i wasnt going anywhere without that afterwards. So the ladies in that office were very nervous. And they said, why did you come to Work Together . I said, i always come to work. They said, no, but todays the day of the martyrs. I went back across the compound. I told my husband he should go over there, because those ladies were in a bad mood. He should get his i. D. Card, too. If he hadnt gone he would be which the chancery, the day of the takeover, luckily, he didnt listen to me. We were slammed outdoors when we saw people had sticks and bats and things like that. After two hours, there were various activities that came and went. The Regional Security officer walked across the compound and was trying to figure out what to do. He thought he could talk the students out of staying on the compound and leaving. So, after a while, we thought we smelled smoke. We were all upstairs in the second floor of the building because it was safer. We thought wed smelled smoke. And so, we thought we better we were probably going to have to leave and we destroyed the visa plate so that no one could make false visas. And the other wife and i there was one other spouse there, that other jubcouple, co lieand jake and i, we were the only spouses there at post washington had thought they would be bringing back adult dependents, but after they saw the state of the country and that it was unstable, they were rethinking that. In any case, cora and i thought, well, now, theyre going to send us home because we cant issue visas, anyway. So how far would you like me to go . I think thats a good point. Okay. Up to november 4th, did you ever anticipate something as dramatic as the actual seizure of the embassy was a possibility . Well, during our training period and talking about the history and whats going on. And given the history of the United States and in embassies all around the world, my fear was that there might be some sort of a retaliatory act at some reason, or somebody but i thought we would probably all be told to pack one bag and get out of the country. Thats the normal procedure, although, that year, there had been a very serious demonstration of and one of our ambassadors, i believe, was killed in afghanistan. Earlier that year. And there were memories in my mind of other takeovers of not embassies, but american diplomatic facilities. And, so, i really was very much prepared to pack one suitcase and leave. But i to stay for 14 months. No, i did not think that, about that. Yes, i think we had a town hall meeting. It must have been the weekend before that when we were told that the shah was going to be the shah was going to be allowed to enter the United States for medical treatment. So then i guess ms. Bruce langdon says theres possibilities on the whole gamut of nothing will happen, and maybe they will try to attack the embassy. So none of us knew what would happen. It was basically a wait and see. As kate said, we were hoping, at most wed have to leave. To pick up where you stopped your story. Many people may be familiar with the movie argot. What did the movie get right and where did they take creative liberty . Well, with that there we were up on the second floor thinking we smelled smoke and we should leave. So various people left in groups. We had people in the nonimmigrant section that day. All the iranians left in one group. What happened was, we looked outside the door, the back door where the visa applicants could have in without having to enter onto the main compound. That was a separate entrance only we had. There was no there. The students either didnt know about that entrance or because the consulate had been moved from a different part of the compound, they werent aware of it. And so we realized the coast was clear. So we left in small groups, first the iranians, then our local the visiting iranians and then our local staff and then there were 12 or 13 of us americans. So we split into smaller groups. In our group, there were the other couple, bob anders who was our boss and joe and i, my husband and i and a couple other people. So we all went out with our group. It started to rain which was probably really lucky because we put up umbrellas. Everybody was concerned about rain and not us. And so then we headed off toward the british embassy, which was supposed to be our sanctuary. We didnt know where it was. One of the iranians employees said she would show us. As we were walking that way, we saw a really large mob, another group of people coming from that direction. So bob anders was with us and he said i live close by, im going home. And we said were coming with you, bob. So we separated a little bit more and walked to bobs house. And listened to every when we got to his house, we listened to the Embassy Radio and we could hear voices, we could hear the americans talking back and forth and trying to figure out what to do and people talking about the vault, which is where all the classified information is kept. Finally, we only heard farsi speakers. We knew everyone had been captured or taken. And so then we called kate. And they came over and that was evening by that time. Thats right. They came we were still doing all right as the as i said my staff had gone out. They came back and we were they said, you know its really serious. I called the embassy and got an answer switchboard from the switchboard embassy occupied. But i remembered i had a direct extension, so i called bruce langdons office and anne swift answered the phone and she said oh, kate, its bad. She said gelt ahold of the guys in the Communication Center and find out whats going on from them. Because theyre still in touch with state. So i called again using this extension, called them and they were shredding material and taking care of classified stuff. And they said call state. So they gave me the number of state to call at the operations center, so that they had another link. And so i and my staff and some of my staff were helping me do this. God bless them. They were taking a chance. But they were monitoring what was being said on radio and television, taking notes, transcribing it. We were feeding that back to washington to the ops center, but also linking to the Communications Center until they said oh, were going to have to go out and state says, well, tell them theyve done a good job and well say good bye. The next thing i heard was tell them theyre gone. We told them that and that was when the vault was breached and they were taken over by the farsi people. So we were still trying to figure out what was going on and reporting back. And toward evening well, cathy another person had showed up there because she couldnt get she had been at the airport that morning and was supposed to be going home. Lillian johnson. Right. She came back and so she was there helping us, and then the six of you showed up. I said, good, we can sleep. So we stretched out on the sofas in the library and they got on the phones with washington until it was almost sunrise. I think you went to my house. We went to the other house. Other houses, okay. All right. So we did eventually go to your house. They had the car. But we were there. And then that next day, someone came and i got out the back door and went around the corner to the German Institute and they said why dont you go home with us. And i said oh, this has got to get settled, its got to simmer down and ive got to get back to the phones. I talked with washington and they said do you think its safe to get back to the phones . I said, well, you know, i hope so. But at any rate i went back my deputy who was the English Teaching specialist was with me. He was working right beside us. So the second time they came for us, bill and i did not get away and we were taken to the Embassy Compound and kept, along with the rest of them. So what happened to us, thanks to being able to talk on the phone with kate, is that this was the most peculiar situation. Because the official iranian diplomats were not in on the takeover. They were appalled. They knew this is not how you run an International Affairs office. So, anyway, so from kates office, my husband was talking to our number two who were in the ballroom at the Foreign Affairs office. They had gone over to complain about the graffiti on the wall and then they got stuck there. They were trying to sort this out and have someone from the iranian government and have someone go over to the hembassy and tell them to go home. He talked to one of the hostage takers and talking we all spoke to washington. And so what that meant was that we had a number we could call vick later on, we could call him at the foreign ministry. It was after you woke up and you loaned us your car, we went to our house, i called my mother. I said its all going to be okay, dont worry. I didnt talk to her for three months. And then vick called and said i have friends at the british embassy, theyll come and get you and you can go spend the night at their compound. So we did. But that night their compound was attacked, too. So they said we really cant protect you, youll need to leave. So vick we called vick again. He called his thai cook. His thai cook had keys to four different employees he was really good. If you ever get to boston. His name is sam. And the last name about this long. So the brits gave us a ride over to johnny graves house, who was a hostage, but sam had the keys to the house. We stayed two nights there. His regular housekeeper was worried we were eating the food and drinking the wine and she was going to get in trouble so she was going to turn us in. We thought about tying her up, but we thought no. And since sam had keys to kates house, we went to kates house. We snuck away in the night. We always had our clothes in the washing machine. Without our clothes wed go to your house. There was no wall around it. There was just you on the street. And so then we were feeling really exposed. We knew they were going to eventually find the housing list where all the americans lived. We were running out of money. So thats when bob anders who had been there about four months called his good friend, john, who was the counsel general at the canadian embassy. And he said were really in trouble now and john said why didnt you call sooner, yes, well take you all in. And so the brits took us this was after about five days. The brits took us over to their house and we were in the safety net of the canadians. Tell us more about that. The canadian government played an instrumental role in your exfiltration and keeping you safe. What exactly did the canadian government do during this time . Theyre absolutely amazing. They didnt we didnt know the rest of us knew none of them, none of the canadians. And they took us in. When we arrived, ken taylor was there and he said at this point there were five of us. The two couples and bob anders. And so ken taylor, the ambassador, came over and said ill take two so you dont have such a big load. You know, a burden. So joe and i do not play bridge, so we went with him so the others could play bridge. And so we spent the next three months on their couch. We had wonderful rooms with them but we could not leave the house, we could not call anyone. We could just sit there and read the paper and get have our hopes built up and drawn down by the news. Every night ambassador taylor and his wife, pat, who was working as a research scientist, would come home and give us any news they had and encourage us and be so kind. So we i think at thanksgiving we had a visit with the others. We went over and saw the other hostages. Then we were sort of hopeful at that point because we were at a good point in negotiations. But they fell through. And then at christmas we were still there. We went over again to see our friends. And then it was pretty bleak because we didnt see every time they tried to negotiate with someone in the iranian government, theyd disappear. Theyd lose their position and wed have to start all over again. So finally, i think the story is that flora mcdonald, they secretary of state for canada buttonholes cyrus vance at a meeting in europe and said youve got to get those people. Ive got to get my people safe and were going to put them on bikes. If you dont do something. So this was december, so tony mendez, the cia officers who was absolutely brilliant forger and exfiltrator was given the assignment of getting us out. He thought of the idea of this hollywood movie crew, had the right number of people, he had friends in hollywood. They set up the studio 8. They opened up a studio in hollywood and they sent out notices. They put notices in variety magazine. And he came and then three days he said he gave us some choices and made it quite obvious this is the choice we should choose. We learned our lines and the canadians gave us all their clothes, because we didnt have any. We had to have a suitcase. And then we went to the airport and that was that. Can you tell us about your time as a hostage [ applause ] thank you. Ill point out you were one of two female hostages who were held for the full 434 days. Can you tell us about the experience . Its always very difficult to try and capsalize that because it covered such a long period of time. I realized let me back up. People say how did you do it. I say two things. Iowa pragmatism. Im a farmers daughter, youve got to make it work. And the other one is im a cradle lutheran. I was taken to church when i was born to be baptized and i grew up in a family of faith. And so my perspective in all of this happening actually, i just met a couple of the marines at bruce langdons funeral a couple weeks ago. One of the marines said to me, he said kate, why did you not ever say you were in solitary . He said you keep saying i was alone. My mind didnt work in those connections of this is solitary imprisonment. My mind worked to the point, my god, ive been given an incredible gift of time. No appointments, no meetings, no plans. What can i do with it . And ive always been fascinated ever since i visited austria the first time about the contemplative orders of the Roman Catholic church. My mother said she didnt think i would talk. She said i started at 18 months and she didnt think id shut up. I loved words, i loved communication and here i was in a situation where i was being told constantly dont speak. Dont speak. So using what i had, a knowledge that i had from the past, i thought, okay, i can explore this contemplative time. And so thats where i started from. It was frightening because you didnt know what was going on. It was frightening because you didnt know what was happening to your colleagues. It was miserable because you didnt know what was happening to your family. You worried about your family worrying about you. For me, it was moving through a serious of rooms all by myself from november 22nd, which is when anne left, was taken out of the room we had been sharing. She at one end and me at the other. I know it was the 22nd because it was my youngest sisters birthday. Thats why that date is there. It was march before she convinced them that she needed to have a roommate and we were allowed to become roommates again. So during that time, it was one sort of a thing. You didnt know what was going on, whether you were going to be questioned, whether you were going to be challenged, whether you were going to be left completely alone. And part of the time i was in a little room that was a library, an embassy library. So i at least had things to read. I loved to read almost as much as i loved to talk. So i read the 1976 yearbook, scuba diving in caves. The history of bell telephone. And actually there was an administrative nba textbook in one of the rooms i got started on. Fortunately they found some other material for me. So it was a strange combination of what next and is anything going on or are we just sitting here . So i dont know how to describe it any differently than, you know, if you dont like whats going on wait 15 minutes it will probably change. The one thing that was one could not change, one could not block were the demonstrations at night. The chants of death to america, death to carter, and the noise outside the Embassy Compound. That went on on a regular basis from the first day until we left almost. Actually, they had moved us into prison and another place. As long as we were on the compound we could almost always count on demonstrations at least on friday and saturday nights. Ms. Stafford, what happened when you got to the airport and how did it feel to return home to the United States . When we got to the airport, they were very clever about when we would leave. We left first thing in the morning. It was about 7 00 flight or so. We were there at 5 00. That meant the revolutionary guards who were the big bullies were not there yet. It was quiet and we were worried about the slips we were supposed to have that would have been in their file someplace. We were worried about that. But we werent stopped. We got through immigration. We thought we were home free and then it turned out our flight was delayed. We thought why was our flight delayed . We talked to tony and he said it would look even more suspicious if we tried to get on another flight. So they said sit tight. So we the flight came in in about an hour. We got on the flight and we did not have runways im sorry. So when we finally were on the plain, we felt good but we knew it wasnt over yet. We had to wait until were out of iranian airspace. When i saw that in the movie, i felt the same relief. They got away. They did. But it was that was really a wonderful moment. And afterwards, when you were still hostages, i would have dreams that i was on that plane and you were all on the plane but you wouldnt talk to me. So then when the hostages were freed, they brought us back. When you all were able to tell us that you were happy we got out, it was like a point for our side. I didnt have these dreams anymore. Good. Im glad. It was. One of the young women who was one of our guards had left something on her desk. I was curious, you know, she was gone out of the room. So how close can i get . There was something about eight americans having gotten home. Well, part of that that wasnt they also sent a 13 eight women and five men. Five africanamericans home. And that was very interesting. Why did they send africanamericans home . Because africanamericans, its well known, are highly oppressed by the usg. And by showing this good will of releasing these except for the one that they kept, because they thought he could put the computer back together, you know, okay. We have our fun. The black american community, the Africanamerican Community would rise up in solidarity with them against our government. Thats what one of the young women explained to me. She had never met an africanamerican or an african because one day she came into the office into the well, we were in offices. We were held in offices in the embassy. She came into the room and she said i like black people. And i said oh . She said, yeah, theyre really nice. And i said um she said i just met some. We have some here from africa and theyre really really nice. And i said, well, yeah, i like some black americans and some are really nice and theres some that arent so nice, theyre just like people. You know, good and bad. But she had never had that experience. And so a lot of what they were thinking and working was very much outside of the realm of their personal experience. And so that made for some very interesting conversations sometimes when you were trying to figure out what was going on. But thats what diplomacy is all about, discovery and thats when it gets exciting. When you can discover something. Sorry. How did you find out you were coming home and what did it fell like to come back to the u. S. . Anne and i were in our room at the guest house. Something was afoot, we didnt know what. But there were a group of algerian doctors, medical doctors there. They were giving us exams, which was sort of weird. And so many stories. And then they said, well, get your stuff together, youre going home. They had told us before we moved 13 times during the course of the 14 months. I did. Theyd always say get your stuff, youre moving. And so but they never said going home. Anne and i were really very skeptical. And then we had our get away bags together. We said were ready, lets go. They said, well well be back for you a little bit later. Then when they took us out of the building and put us on a bus, for the first time we were put on a bus with the men. We had always been moved separately. And so they we got to the airport and i thought we might really be going home when we got to the airport. There were two algerian planes on the ground. And we were loaded into one. And before we could even ask the questions yes, everybody is here and yes, nobody is seriously harmed. Physically, as we found out later a lot of people carried deep emotional scars with them. And so we were on the plane. Actually, i said did anybody lose a watch . It was a seiko. They had brought us something so we would know what time it was so we could for whatever reason and it actually belonged to one of the military attaches that had they had taken it. Before i open it up for questions from the audience, one final question. How did your experiences in iran change your perceptions of the country and its people . Iran is what i thought it was before i got there. It is a country of very proud people who have a right to be proud of their long history, their poetry, their literature, their music, their art. And so many things they instigated. They were the ones who were responsible for diplomatic immunity. When it was established how many thousand years ago. Its a country thats complex and has a lot of different pulls in many, many different ways. And they have a very have a big job just to be able to recognize each other and to move with each other. And i would like and they all want the same things we want. They want education for their kids, they want a nice house, they want a good job and plenty of food and people taken care of when theyre ill. We all want that. Now lets figure out how to get it done, people. Thats beautiful. [ applause ] we have time now for questions from the audience. As a reminder to our livestream audience, you can submit your connections into our browser. Please raise your hand if you have a question, and make sure your question is a question. Yes, sir, in the third row. A microphone is on its way. How did your life change when the aborted rescue Mission Failed in the debs rserdesert . What did they do to you . Did you fear for your life . We didnt know what had happened. There was an unusual amount of gunfire around the embassy. And we didnt know whether it was more iraqis or what because that was always in the brush. And we were moved and at some point a couple of days later one of the men came to me and he said you cook dont you . I said yeah. He said, well, we need you to cook for you and ms. Swift and for some of the men. I said, well, how many am i cooking for . I cant tell you. Wait a minute. I have to have he said, well, lets just say it will be for four or five people. That was our first indication that some of our colleagues had been moved off the compound. Or at least were not there with us. But we didnt know that. We just knew all of a sudden there was a need for me to cook for the two of us and two or three other people. And then later, we i got a letter that im pretty sure i wasnt supposed to get. They did give us some of the letters that were mailed to us by schoolchildren. People that we didnt know. Because, of course, anybody that we knew was although i did get some letters from my sisters, but they and this little girl said im sorry the rescue attempt failed, i hope they try again. Anne and i sort of looked at each other and thought how is this figuring. Then they gave us a back issue of newsweek i think it was. But the stories about iran and the United States were torn out. You could where they had torn out stories. They forgot the table of contents and the letters to the he editor. It was a feast. So there was but thats also how we learned a man died trying to rescue us. That was not a feast. That was stunning. Absolutely stunning. And anne and i never did come up with another word that could describe how we felt when we learned that. Just stunned. Yes, in the second to last row, please. In the events leading up to the takeover politically when the shah left, did you feel that Foreign Policy let you down in not backing the shah, or was the revolution unstoppable . We knew the revolution was there to stay. It wasnt going to go away. But the shahs leaving to go into the United States was, i think, as cathys already pointed out, a real danger point. And i think we all agreed with o charget that and i understand with the negotiations with Vice President mondale and other people that there were hours spent in discussion as to whether this was good policy or not. And someone resigned because he strongly sgr strongly disagreed with it. It was not an easy decision for president carter to make, but i think he did what he thought given the person that president carter is, of such integrity and humanity, that he really saw this as a humanity issue. Thank you. One additional note for our livestream audience. Theres a revised link and you can type in your questions. Thank you. Yes, sir in the second row. First off, just thank you so much for your Incredible Service and courage on behalf of our country. I understand that both of you after returning home ended up going back out, getting back into the Foreign Service, going, serving again in new places. Some pretty difficult places even. Can you tell a little bit about what that decision process was like . Was that a difficult choice to make . Kind of why was it important to continue in your line of work. Go ahead. Well, in our case, we thought wed check the box and it couldnt possibly happen again. Of course, i was evacuated from the ivory coast and evacuated from sudan. Now i live in nasir. My husband loves what he does. He does it well. And im a painter, so every place i go i have new things to paint and new subject matter. We think its important work. So we keep going out. Well, i chose my next job very carefully. I left washington. I actually went to new york city. That was one of my assignments. We have something called a Foreign Press center in new york city. And we work with resident and visiting foreign correspondents. Our busiest season is of course during the u. N. General assembly. But that was an opportunity to sort of feel out what was going to happen. And whether this was something i wanted to continue with, what other options were out there, if there were. And i found that actually i really liked what i was doing. And i liked the possibilities of what i could do in addition more in educational and Cultural Exchange work, which i think is so vital to all of our interests worldwide. Yes, sir on the side, please. Microphone is on its way. Thank you so much. I think to say thank you for sharing. You just presented to us as if it happened yesterday. It was really great. My question to both of you, have you had a chance to go back and visit the places that you have been in iran . Thank you. I think my family would tie me up and lock me in a room if they even thought i was getting close to the place. No. I would not want to put anybody there in an awkward position, number one. Number two, i have amazing iranian friends right here in the United States. And im able to enjoy knowing them and not worrying about their safety or my safety. We can still have our conversations and carry on. Would i like to go back . I lived in german speaking countries for eight years, thats yes and no. All at once. Id be afraid to go back. Unfortunately, iran keeps taking innocent citizens and using them as hostages to exchange. Right. I think theres a number of people right now who are in that position and have just been nabbed and will be used either for political make points. So i would love to go back. It was the absolutely New York Post beautiful country and theres so much i havent seen but im not going to take that chance. Yes, sir, in the back, please. M sorry about your trauma there. Ive got a question. Given that thousands of americans have been killed by japanese, germans, koreans, and who have you, we manage to have very good relations with them after so many years. Weve got a great economy with the japanese, the germans and everybody, but somehow we have a psychological block with iran we cant seem to get over it. Can you explain that . I think they cant get over it either. Theyve been scarred or haunted by our interference in their electi election, so they believe were not trustworthy and for recent events they feel that we dont keep our word. And we will always have iran, that was really the beginning of our first confrontation with militant islam. So we have this shadow over everything. I think any kind of thinking we do about having rebelations wit irans, its in the back of our minds can we trust them. They dont follow international law. And even though we knew the shah was terminally ill with cancer, and that his coming to the United States was a last ditch chance for him, the iranians were convinced it was a ploy to put him back in power. And we theres just i think you said it right, cathy. Theres a long history that we have to work out bit by bit. Id like to ask you for these last few minutes if you could tell us about where your lives have taken you since you left iran. Lets see. I decided after those days that life is short and fragile and i should be painting because thats my passion. So thats what i have been doing for the last 35 years. I have exhibitions and workshops with local painters. And i work now with a school for the deaf, do little art classes because they have little access to anything at all. Thats something we can focus on together and i cant say much of anything in sign language, but im learning. Well have a slide show of some of her artwork on the screen as you exit the center this evening. Thank you. [ applause ] i stayed in the Foreign Service, and ended up new york and then i went to vienna for four years, munich for four years, back to washington, off to australia which was one of my aims when i went in 27 years earlier. I retired from the Foreign Service to end up doing adjunct work at my alma matter in waverly iowa where i ended up teaching there. I have a masters in my theater. How would you get into the Foreign Service . Cultural exchange. Then i ended up teaching intercultural communication as well as this is really important reconciliation. Thats why i feel so strongly that we have to seek to find those points where we can find agreement and where we can build on for each other a new and better world. Hate doesnt produce anything of really fine quality. It destroys us and it tears us apart. When we give into it it destroys us each and every day. Back to my lutheran roots, were said, you know, love your enemies. Not easy. But gods grace is sufficient for most of that. And so i feel so strongly that we need to be able to help people reconcile what has happened in their lives to move forward and not let that keep them bogged down forever. Thats where its taken me. [ applause ] wonderful to end on that optimistic note. Thank you for sharing those very powerful experiences with us. Thank you for your service and please join me in thanking our speakers tonight. [ applause ] all week, were featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan 3. Lectures in history. American artifacts. Reel america. The civil war. Oral histories. The presidency and special event coverage on our nations history. Enjoy American History tv now and every weekend on cspan 3. American history tv products are now available at the new cspan online store. Go to cspanstore. Org to see whats new. Hi, everyone, my name is adam koch. Im here to encourage you to continue to wrap up this competition as the deadline is getting pretty close. Dont worry youll still have time. This is about the time i started filming my documentary the first year i entered. Im in the d. C. Offices right now and im just going to tell you that cspan student cam was an Incredible Opportunity for me to express my thoughts and views about the Political Climate in the current day as well as connect with some local and state leaders in political office. Im extremely excited you all are interested in this and are pursuing this. Its a once in a lifetime opportunity. Im so excited. Theres time for you to enter the cspan student cam video competition. You have until january 20th to create a five to six minute documentary that explores the history you want the president ial candidates to address. Were giving away a total of 100,000 in cash prizes with a grand prize of 5,000. For more information go to our website. 40 years ago, iranian protesters stormed the u. S. Embassy in tehran, taking 66 american hostages. Next on American History tv, author david farber talks about his book, taken hostage. Which chronicles their ordeal and examined the u. S. Governments First Encounter with radical islam. I think the 1979, 1980 hostage crisis between the United States and iran really set the tone, probably for our relationship all the way through today. It was real