Transcripts For CSPAN3 World War I African Americans Civil Rights 20240713

It is my pleasure to welcome you to this program entitled, historically speaking, we return fighting. World war i and the shaping of the modern black identity. Published by smithsonian books, we return fighting is a collection of essays that chronicle of men and women who served the country on the battlefield as well as on the home front and their struggles for civil rights. One of the main things we will learn this evening is that while the Civil Rights Movement was decades away, world war i established important questions of citizenship that paved the way toward future progress. We are fortunate to be joined tonight by the museums Deputy Director and editor of we return fighting. The images are really very powerful, of americans at war and on the home front. It also gives us a different look at the life African Americans faced when they came home after the war. Let me end by welcoming you and assuring you that you are in for a wonderful evening. Thank you for joining us and im sure you will have a great evening. [applause] ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the Deputy Director of the National Museum of history and culture, kinshasha holman. Good evening. Good evening. Thank you for braving the rain, which in washington is like snow elsewhere. Thank you for being here. Thank you, spencer, for the warm welcome and the wonderful introduction of this book. I hope you will purchase it. When you do, do read the acknowledgments. If i had time, i would mention names like carolyn, christina, rex ellis. But i do not have time to acknowledge the many others. If you look in the back, the names are all there. One of the people i would like to quote from is a young man who surely had and has a promising future. Many of you have heard his name. We were pleased that our founding director was able to and willing to write the introduction and epilogue to this book, which is the work of many hands. And i would like to quote from his epilogue to frame a little bit about what you are going to hear tonight from these amazing gentlemen, Krewasky Salter and greg carr. Dr. Bunch says, no single volume can fully capture the African American experience in world war i or tell us what the war meant for black americans in the decades afterward when the echoes were heard in president Harry S Trumans desegregation order. The landmark brown v. Board of education desegregation decision of 1954 and the long battles of the 1960s to gain for black citizens the democracy for which all those young men had died so long ago. Although the war did not swing open the doors of enfranchisement for African Americans, it could be said that its sheer scale, the slap across the worlds face of the first truly global war did open for us, a new sense of our own potential and possibility. And thus, set into motion an incremental Movement Toward freedom. The burdens on the backs of black americans, military or civilian, remain heavy. But, our forbearers sacrifices in world war i and all the wars that have followed have not been forgotten. And they remain incontrovertible proof of our entitlement to full rights as citizens of our own country. The great w. E. B. Dubois, one of the major intellectuals who framed the issues around world war i, stated stated in his 1919 article for the crisis magazine, the complexities of world war i. And he wrote, we return. We return from fighting. We return fighting. Make way for democracy. We saved it in france and by the great jehovah, we will save it in the United States of america. Or know the reason why. The two gentlemen you will hear tonight talking about this book, which is a companion of an exhibition of almost the same title that will debut in december will help us unpack those complexities and that sentiment. Tonight, you will hear from dr. Krewasky salter, our guest associate curator for the exhibition and a major contributor to this publication. He is also the executive director of the First Division museum. Dr. Greg carr, associate professor of African Studies and the chair of the department of afroamerican studies at howard university. An adjunct faculty at the Howard School of law. As they discuss the vital role of africanamericans in world war i. Africanamericans who hoped to live out postcivil war expectations of full citizenship upon returning home. Upon returning home this book anyway reveals the many ways people world war i shaped the identity of black people and lent fuel to their longstanding fullto demand fall Citizenship Rights and to claim their place in this country countrys cultural and political landscape. Had we many more hours, i could give you the amazing credentials of these brilliant men. But let me suffice to say, they are not only holders of phds in their respective subjects, but they have spoken widely and traveled widely on the subject. Dr. Salter is a retired u. S. Army colonel. He also curated our exhibition on military history in our inaugural exhibitions here in the museum. Double victory, the africanamerican military experience. His publications also include, the story of black military officers, 18611948. Dr. Carr has numerous credentials to his name. In addition to his work at howard university, he is also deeply involved in the development of curriculum, particularly with the city of philadelphia. He has also worked around the world in places including ghana, egypt, el salvador, bahia. His publications have appeared in the African American studies reader, publications of the modern Language Association of america, and malcolm x, a historical reader. In addition to those of you we we have with us in the Oprah Winfrey theater tonight, there am. Others watching on ustre there is one other person i would like to recognize. Julie lasalle who was the a member to the French Embassy and one of our main connections to our colleagues in france. Were it not for them and the centennial that was headed by joseph samet, we would not have the wonderful objects you will see in be exhibition that opens in december. Mr. Samet and madame lasalle helped open the door of french museums throughout that country for loans and important objects. There are a series of donors who were able to help us as well. We are grateful to all of them. One more thing i want to say so she will not think i dont know my job this program is made possible through the support of the organization. I believe we have some members of altria here tonight. Nationwide foundation and the Robert Mccormick foundation. It is created, the exhibition, thank you for being here. Join me in welcoming dr. Krewasky salter and dr. Greg carr. [applause] how is it going . Appreciate you, brother. How is everybody doing . The first order of business is to say welcome. We heard from our Deputy Director and our director and all the folks here at the museum. It is an honor to be here again. Colonel, it is a particular honor to sit here with you, realizing you have been deeply involved with this museum since before it was opened. You have curated and this is the third exhibit. Dr. Carr that i curated . Dr. Salter in terms of the exhibit that rotated through the halls. Dr. Carr this is the third that rotates through the exhibit space. Dr. Salter first of all this is an incredibly conceived book. If you have already bought it, great. If not, do not leave here without it. So much information in such a tightly packed place, but not overburdened. The language is clean. Everything in here. Lets start with that. Thank you. Good. [laughter] this text, we return fighting. How did you conceive this book . How did you put it together . Dr. Carr the book is born out of the exhibition. A decision was made to do the exhibition. Once that decision was made, i started meeting with kinshasa on a regular basis. We were talking about the story. Kinshasha plays poker very well. I was talking with her, and she would ask me questions. Ask me. I would leave the office but i would have meetings with my then boss, rex ellis. And one day he said, kinshasa likes what you are saying. I dont know what you are saying when you meet with kinshasa, but she likes what you are saying. And i realized that she might play poker but now i know that she is listening. So the next time i met with her, she said, not only should we do an exhibition, i think we can do a book. So the book was actually born when i had my oneonone meeting sitting down with kinshasa. From that point on, not only were we executing an exhibition, but we started developing the construct for a book. Dr. Salter in a moment well talk about why world war i. But in this book one of the brilliant things about it is youre taking some things we know, some image that we were aware of, but you are reading it differently. How did you curate the authors and then parse out the work and then go through the editorial process to get this kind of distinct way of, not only talking about africanamericans history, but really, talking about World History through the lens of world war i. Dr. Carr exactly. What we did, we already had scholarly advisors for the exhibition. So we decided, who will be the individuals to write in the book . It was very easy, we selected all of the scholarly advisors who were working on the exhibition. What the scholarly advisors are , those are the people that bring the curators down to earth. I mean, you pick big brain people and you send your script to them. And they help you make sure you get your interpretations right. So we selected all the scholars for the exhibition. One thing we had to do with the exhibition was make sure we did not want to drop our readers nor our visitors into the black experience in world war i, without them understanding what world war i really was. So we have a part called the global war. So the first chapter is written by j. Winters, a Professor Emeritus of yale university, who now lives in france. His chapter is the first chapter. It helps us understand, why world war i . He goes in detail in a few pages on how world war i became a global war, in a page and a half. Then he talks about stalemate, 1916 on into the war, and that is the chapter that sets the first stage. It was my mission in chapter two to do two things. Was to have readers understand and we do this in the exhibition that African Americans do not to step on the battlefield in world war therey had i been from the beginning of the nation. My mission was to be sure we understood that. And also to be sure people understood what a dark world and americans inack america. So when you read chapter two, you see the turning back of time, after the ending of slavery. The rise of jim crowism extreme segregation. The 1883 Civil Rights Act which turns back the clock. 13 years later plessy versus ferguson. All along, you have people who are being lynched and killed. We have a quote in there from robert smalls, a world war ii veteran who says in 1895, that he estimates by that time, over 53,000 africanamericans had been killed. We talk about mob violence. We talk about those, while at the same time, African Americans are serving in the military. So that was my mission in chapter two, and also to talk about the service of africanamericans in world war i. Chapter three was written by another one of our rhodes scholars, dr. John morrow, who is the john hope frankel and John Hope Franklin professor of history and chair at the university of georgia. It was his mission to create a tight shot group i am a soldier, so a shot group is you want to hit that target. A tight shot group between 1913 and 1919. So he went a little further in detail, in the service of africanamericans. But what he also brought to the table was, he was an imperialist researcher and writer. This was the time during imperialism. He talks about when the europeans went to war, the rest of the world went to war because they had all these colonies. So he goes into detail. Dr. Salter that really is a linchpin for this later on. Dr. Carr and then he talks about the further mob violence that is going on. He talks about east st. Louis. And houston in 1917. And the key to those two riots is that we had already entered the war and we were still having these types of incidents going on. So that was jay morrows piece. Then we had 10 profiles. Three of our other scholars, chad williams, Lisa Boudreau and curtis young, they write profiles. Then we picked up another scholar, Brittany Cooper. Powerful. And she writes the piece on charles and ida b. Wells. That is the construct. When you read the book, we also have a beautiful timeline. Bill pretzer and one of our research assistants, alicia norwood, you pour that out and it goes from 1863 to 1963 and it weaves in the social, cultural and economic and military service, all in the timeline. We have more than 140 captions of some of the artifacts and images. And our exhibition and research assistant, patrice augin, she wrote half of that and i read wrote the other half. Dr. Salter i want to write ask about the exhibit and what is in the book. Before we get there, they exhibit opens next month . Dr. Carr the 13th of december. By project manager is here too, carlos bustamante. Dr. Salter were going to talk for the while and then we will open it up. Things you need to comment on. One of your heroes, i think we talk about more is Charles Young. I think it was according to george will kings in his book, i think it was a hundred years ago young gives athat talk, because the veterans have come back, and they say, they want a new war memorial. Some war veterans come back, George Washington williams and them and say, we want a memorial. Maybe it is supposed to be near howard. That wouldve been great. They cannot afford to buy the property now. But then we have this, we are good. Then world war i veterans come back and say we want a negro memorial. Maybe it should be bigger than that. Charles young gives a talk where he says, you know it would be nice to have a building and to have brass and monuments. But perhaps the real monument would be to give these soldiers the thing they went abroad to fight for. The rights. Stop lynching people. All this stuff. I say that because i am thinking about the themes you put together not only in your essay, but also the span of this book. It kind of echoes what you did in the publication for the first museum where you talk about this double victory. But then you take it backward in time. You conceptualize, thinking about world war i and how people of african descent enter the war not just from the United States , but from around the world. This concept of double victory. And as a career military man who has risen to the highest ranks as a scholar, and now as a man who is helping us interpret experiences of not only our people. Howt america in general, delicate in this world war i narrative is this balance between what black people are trying to do you point out in your essay in the earlier book towards it inre this one, that probably more black people fought for the for the United States. Dr. Carr and why was world war i so important . The essence of victories when African Americans fought for this nation, their nations write history, they were not only fighting to help the nation win. There were fighting to achieve democracy and equality for themselves and their families. So that is what double victory really means. So when you go back to the american revolution, an estimated number, 6000 africanamericans fight for the u. S. Forces, but an estimated 20,000 fight for the british. When you take that seem up forward best when you take the theme when you take that worldforward up to the war i African Americans were , always fighting for the side that offer the best chances for freedom. African americans had was been there. The reason why world war i to me was so important and as a bridge , is because africanamericans thought, when president wilson said, we must fight to make the world safe for democracy, they thought that meant them. [laughter] so when they went to fight, the double victory they were fighting for was not just to help america win the war when they went overseas, they were fighting that, hopefully, when they got back, that the qualities of being a citizen, democracy, mob violence, economic stability, educational uplift and a whole host of other things would come to them. But within 24 months after the declaration of war was given on 6 april, 1917, this thing called the red summer erupted. That is kind of what Charles Young was talking about. These africanamerican soldiers did not go to europe just to help americans win, they went to help their citizens win in america. And that did not happen. That is why this term the new negro came about. The phrase came about 25 years earlier. But there was an intellectual and economic new negro. Most of us know the new negro from 1919. That new negro was an aggressive new negro, the one who was emboldened after fighting on the battlefield and his family members and friends were also emboldened to make sure that what we went to fight for, to make the world safe for democracy, was also going to make america safer democracy. Best safe for democracy. Was also going to make america safe for democracy. That is why we have the quote with a Philip Randolph. Dr. Salter i would rather make georgia safer democracy. Safe for for democracy. A Philip Randolph said i would rather make georgia safe for the negro. Symbol for a america. Dr. Salter a Philip Randolph, the most dangerous negro in america, an open socialist. Not even 10 years after the bolshevik revolution. That is interesting, because he of thepart, in terms title you picked and also what is in the exhibit, so we can get that out of the way, but i will come back to that, i want to ask that quote from the vo dubois. Randolphs distinction himself from du bois. Ofot of us, and a lot students are here tonight, they came to see you, brother. Alain locke is credited with the new negro. In douglas hall. Dr. Salter a professor of military science. Dr. Carr exactly, howard is like atlanta, Everybody Knows someone who went to howard. Randall is critical not only of bois, but also alaine locke. He writes relative to the war we return fighting, and make the , delivery choice not to say world war i and the shaping of black participation in the war, but this broader concept. Is balancing something. Dr. Salter so the first one, youre exactly right. A Philip Randolph and web yo du bois. His mid40s in a a Philip Randolph was 28 years 1917. Old. And du bois was lumped in with what he called the old crowd negro. These were youngsters who were labeling those individuals the old, proud negro, those who would close ranks and go fight, bois said. At th du but the sentiment had already been there from 1915, 16 and 17 come up which is what he was writing about when the war started in dr. Carr you 1914. Mentioned the imperialism chapter which is very important. The article in atlantic monthly. Dr. Salter dubois did a trip to france in december, 1918 for three months after the war, and he was disturbed with what he found. Because he was an intellectual that mainly convinced africanamericans to close ranks and go to war. And he did research and found out about all the discrimination, and some African Americans who had lost their , and on the battlefield some lost their lives not on the battlefield. Ofhe came back, and in may 1919, that is when he wrote a juxtaposition of closed ranks. He said, we would be fools and cowards if we go and fight for our nation and then come back to the same nation i am paraphrasing that we left. The centennial, world war i is really over. But this year is the centennial of the new negro. So that is why the exhibition is entitled the return of returng vehicle we fighting. One of the questions you may have been asking is one word you do not see in the exhibition title or the book is, you do not see military. The exhibition is not entitled the africanamerican military spirits and world war i. And the book is not entitled world war i, and the military shaping and black identity. You do not seem military in there for a reason. This exhibition, like double victory, it is not about the service necessarily of African Americans on the battlefield. That is why they served. The reason they served is because they were citizens and wanted to make sure they raped reaped all the benefits. The exhibition is not light. It is on time. We always intended it for it to open in 2019, because of this is the centennial of the new negro. Dr. Carr when folks go through the exhibit, they will see so many interesting things. But in this book, when you start reading this book, what is in here that is not in the exhibit, and vice versa . Dr. Salter number one, what is in the exhibition but is not in the book are the live artifacts you can see up close. The book allows us to give more details, to put bleach on the bones, put meat on the why there was a world war i, why the world went to war in six weeks. It also allows us to give more detail of the difference between the 92nd and 93rd division and why the 93rd and 369th, the 370th, the 371st, and the 372nd or so important. You have that in the book. We have a few additional vignettes. The difference between the exhibition and the book is they both have a shelf life, but the exhibitions shelflife will end on 14 june. Buy it, it hasou a shelf life and that will be on your library forever. That is a big difference between the book and the exhibition. Leave, exhibition will and we will mount another very important exhibition i dont want to say when it is but the book will be there forever. Dr. Carr now, we are going to shift and talk about, and believe me, every page in this book, every paragraph could open up into a whole conversation. For me, as someone who is an inveterate reader, i am reading this like, wow. So, there are any number of places we can go. Certainly we want to talk about the role of the women. There are so many different ones. But thinking about 1915, we know booker t. Washington died in 1915. Birth of a nation comes out in 1915. You have Woodrow Wilson curated and narrated in here. Lets take a figure that helps us work around to some of the other conversations. We are in d. C. Charles hamilton houston. Lets talk about charlie houston, who is known for training the people who killed jim crow as a lawyer, but was also one of the highest ranking black officers in world war i. Dr. Salter he was a lieutenant. Very high for an africanamerican at the time. He was a lieutenant. I ask if all the time, do you know who Charles Hamilton houston is . And what is important for . And everyone who knows him knows him as a lawyer, but few people know that he was one of those individuals who went to fort des moines, earned an officership and served as lieutenant overseas and fought in france in the 368th infantry regiment of the 92nd division. And it was that experience but he had in the military when he saw the way he was treated, and other africanamericans were treated, that he decided at what his father always wanted him to his father wanted him to be a lawyer, was a lawyer. And they worked together. Picture and you have a. How did you get the picture . Dr. Salter i will talk about that in his that is where he got second. His foundation to be a lawyer. Book, you havehe the picture, his typewriter is in the National Museum of africanAmerican History and culture. We wanted artifacts that resonated all kinds of things. We wanted something that resonated perhaps military and nobody had it. They had the address of his son. Dr. Carr oh yeah. Dr. Salter my wife is in the audience, she knows the story. Dr. Carr Charles Hamilton houstons son. Dr. Salter he gave me that picture. I will tell the story. I got in my car and i drove up to baltimore to the address. I had my smithsonian badge in my hand, knocked on the door, and i stepped back. His wife came to the door and i to make the long story short, i announced who i was i Krewasky Salter, i work for the am smithsonian. Are you trolls hamilton houston judging son or daughter in law . To make a long story short, i visited with them twice. You talk with people, you give them a connection, they had nothing to give, we dont know. The second visit after they called me, they said you know what . Charles has been keeping his fathers revolver from world war i. Dr. Salter oh, man. Come on, man. Dr. Salter i said, you gotta be kidding me. Make a long story short, i go up there and collect it. The pistol, they pulled out that image and ive never seen that image before. The reason we know while those individuals are, is that they had it in written on the back. That is his father and he was in the odd fellows. They gave us for objects. They gave us 4 objects. And there are stories like that for just about all the objects that are in the exhibition that we own that people donated to us. They didnt want to give that up because they didnt want his father to be seen as a militant with a weapon. Is what they told me. But they said, because of the museum, which is a good thing that the museum is doing, it is convincing people to give up artifacts that they have had for years talked away somewhere tucked away somewhere. Live in baltimore, i drove out to baltimore, that it is going to be in the exhibition, and it now belongs to the National Museum of African American history and culture. Dr. Carr please. [applause] dr. Salter Charles Hamilton houstons granddaughter or great granddaughter is a student at howard law school. Dr. Carr thats right. No question. We are keeping it tight. [laughter] dr. Salter making a connection with the family and talking with them and you still talk with these individuals. Dr. Carr lets continue in that vein. Houston has clearly got a vision. And what he saw in war kind of empowered him to keep going, and it troubled his spirit. There are differences between black people who participate in this war. I readin remember reading about these cats who came and said, my beefs from nashville got with these guys from philadelphia and we are not going to take that stuff zeroing in on the differences between black folks, can you talk about the 3629 and what happened in South Carolina . These southern white dudes really want a whole racial order, but these are not gross negroes that are just used to being dr. Salter yeah. Africanamericans have never been monolithic and they are not the same depending on what region you come from. The 369 are new york city boys but not all of them, they are recruited from all of the north and there were a few from the south. Where were they sent to train . In South Carolina. So there was a clash. The white, southern status quo in South Carolina, and then, you have these northern africanamericans coming down to train. There were supposed to be there months, andur, five only stayed for a few weeks. They had to get them out because there was going to be a clash. John writes about this in the exhibition. September, october of 1917 is only three month after brownsville and east st. Louis. One of the things we always do is, we have to put it in the context of good so they did not want the context. So they didnt want another brownsville, where the 24th did actually shoot up the town. Unlike the 25th. Dr. Carr what happened in brownsville . Dr. Salter in brownsville there were two eyesores, one in 1906 with the 25th, i get the mix out i get them mixed up sometimes, where the accusations were not true, and president 167evelt discharged soldiers for something that was unfounded and unproved. However, in houston, when a Police Officer began to beat a black man when he was looking for soldier, those brothers did go out and shoot up the town. Three courtmartials, 19 of them were sent to the gallows. We talk about them in the exhibition. Dr. Carr just letting folks know about this. Dr. Salter that is why they left South Carolina, and that is the reason they were the first africanamerican unit in france because instead of sending them to retrain, they send them to a debarkation point and they arrived in france. The rest of the division were never together, they did not arrive until april. That is what are the main reasons why the 369th was the first unit. Dr. Carr i want to ask about women, but before we do, now the brothers are in, and it is not just brothers, of course, the ymca is involved. Can we talk about that . Dr. Salter we have an entire weaved, and women are throughout. Dr. Carr maybe we will end with the global scope. Talk about the women. There was a chapter you did in here on gold star mothers. Dr. Salter one of our scholars, she is the senior military a curator at the Tennessee State museum of history. She writes about the gold star mothers. Goldstar mothers were africanamericans. They were mothers who lost a son during world war i. White and black. And they had these pilgrimages that went to france, three of 19301993. To make a long story short, they were also segregated. Oure were discussions sons and husbands fought in a segregated military and we are going to visit their gravesites 12 years later in segregated pilgrimages. So Lisa Boudreau writes that. But also, Brittany Cooper writes about ida b wells and charles, the juxtaposition of those individuals. This goes to the fact that africanamericans have never been monolithic. Just like w. E. B. Dubois, and i know we are wrapping it up, and randall, their means were the same better lives for africanamericans. But they had different ways of doing it. Ida b. Wells was a firebreather. I mean, she would punch you in the nose. Dr. Carr literally. Dr. Salter that is why i said that. And mary was a dignified agitator. She says that in her book. Of believed in doing things in a dignified manner. But their instinct was the same. That is why we chose people for who they are, and not only africanamericans, we talk about we always say africanamericans and their white supporters. So you will see stories about white americans in this , who fought for the progress of africanamericans in america. Dr. Carr we will open it up if folks want to move towards the microphone. We just scratched the surface. Everybody is in here, from joseph in baker tara sydni. Echet and Louis Armstrong it really is a remarkable moment. Let me ask this final question. What we did not touch on yet is the global scope of how African People around the world came to know each other in this moment. When those brothers get off the troop transport and women do support, they need black women from other places. Dr. Salter a part of this global war is africanamericans, although they entered the war with white americans in 1917 and made it to france in 1918, when the world went to war, because this was a period of imperialism, france had at least 17 colonies that went to war when they went to war. Dr. Carr is a great richard. Picture. The british had colonies in the east indies, the caribbeans, and all of the world. When they went to war, guess who else went to war . Their colonial soldiers went to war. That is why you have people of african descent fighting in world war i beginning in 1914. They do meet each other. Dr. Carr this was in the exhibit, right, do we get to see this in real life . Dr. Salter this is one of our artifacts we are getting from france. Dr. Carr all the africans from different places in the world. This negro has a fade just like me. [laughter] so you cant go back to columbus, georgia, the same way after seeing your brother. How are you doing, brother . Gentlemen, before you go totally rogue i want to do one thing. We are going to thank these gentleman and then go into q a. Ladies and gentlemen, please thank them. [applause] and i want to encourage everyone to step up to the microphone. People will let us know how to keep on time. John. Greg, wonderful session. Thank you. John, how are you . Wonderful, thank you. I would be pleased if you could talk about the challenge of creating this exhibition because so much of this exhibition is not in u. S. Archives because, under Woodrow Wilson, those fighting are fighting under the french flag. And therefore, the whole process has been working with the French Military archives. Can you please share some of that story with us . Dr. Salter i guess a challenge was to present to a body of my colleagues that the information was there because i had been studying it for a long time. So, i started studying military history in 1991, africanAmerican History in 1993. I had done interviews with individuals, i had heard stories from individuals, and i knew about footage that existed. So i just think, one of the challenges was just to make sure that my passion, and what i knew was coming across to the effect that, yes, we can do an exhibition. I see my old boss sitting here in the front row. And i tell you, he was my biggest supporter at the ok,nning, making sure that, if you know all this information, you know, make sure we can share it and package it in a fashion that we can share it with the public. So a lot of these documents are also buried in the french archives. Ex was with me on one of the trips when we went into the french archives and we had people translating some information. The challenge is making sure the information comes out. AfricanAmerican History had been buried i think i write in the book when i heard the story, africanamericans were challenged to suppress the fact that they served in world war i because soldiers were being attacked. So a lot of this history was just buried and not talked about, but it exists. And people have it, like charles amilton houstons family, in shoebox in a basement. I hope i answered your question. Can i ask greg carr a question too . Because, as a professor who deals every day with younger minds, and as you approach Africana Studies rate large, where does scholarship like that thishe contributors to book fit into what you are trying to convey and stir up in these young intellects . Dr. Carr i will say this. Kinshasa, very basic and we talked about this a minute ago i think museums are really the future of this work in a lot of ways. The universitys, k12, we are in the classroom doing all we can. The online platforms, the digital platforms. But this work allows access to people of all walks of life. So when you come in and deal with an artifact, with a narrative, we can linger. Particularly here. Emmett tills casket is downstairs. But when you realize that his father is buried in a French Cemetery in a segregated part of a French Cemetery and you are that into this exhibit, it is almost more powerful than to bring people into this building to sit and linger through these exhibits than to sit in a classroom and learn. There is more we can do and 30 minutes. This is from somebody who is a fiend of Louis Armstrong, i was playing Louis Armstrong this morning. Armstrong, the master of modernism, emerges in this moment of a new world coming out of world war i. And it will mean something more to go through this exhibit, and then go to the top floor and see Louis Armstrongs trumpet and say, lets sit and have this conversation. I think museums really are the future of how we begin to narrate and think through critically who we are in the world. This is one of the most important places i can think of in the world to have that kind of conversation. Kinshasa thank you. We will go now to the next question. Just a followup on what john mentioned, persian and black troops. I dont understand why, here is , a manjohn jay persian who served black troops at the spanishamerican war, poncho villa, but yet, he was willing to transfer all the black combat troops to france, to the french. I would like to know if there is a back story to that. My next question is as i understand it, if i am not mistaken, they also were the units that the french used to consolidate their colonial troops. I just want to verify that. My third question, and i will get out of here, i understand scott and i am surprised you didnt mention his name. There are so many people. He wrote a book about the American Negro in the world war, in terms of histor historiographical documentation, how is that perceived, because i know he was a very conservative duy, relative to th the boisdocumentation . Dr. Salter i will talk about the 369 and the rest of the division. There were two black division s in world war were that were africanamericans. The 92nd and the 93rd. The 93rd division is the division that went to the french. There was a complete regiment that stayed with the u. S. So not all of the black combat troops went to the french. John jay persian did have a history. That is why he got the nickname and there were all kinds of stories, terms of endearment, we will not go into that, and i read a book about this dichotomy five or six years ago, that john j. Pershing was pulled from many different directions. There was a policy that american soldiers would not fight under the french, so why did we give an entire africanamerican division to the french . There was a political juxtaposition and a social juxtaposition from a lot of the white officers on his staff that were serving in his unit that did not want African American soldiers to fight alongside white soldiers. So when you say john j. Pershing gave this division to the french, he was in command. That is the way military officers are trained. He has the ultimate responsibility. But he was being tugged from the top, side and bottom and the french were clamoring that does you said you were going to put men on the battlefield, so it is not a clean answer on john j. Pershing assigning the 93rd division. We are very clear the way we choose our words in the gallery upstairs. In this gallery we say that john j. Pershing made the ultimate decision. But there is an entire book that talks about what he said about why he made that decision. Question,k there were a host of africanamericans who wrote about their experience in world war i, but the books never got published. I have read most of those over the years being an africanamerican military historian. I began to combine those in 1996. And thats where the information exists. It exists in libraries, in the library of congress, in archives collecting dust because no one was reading it. What really catapulted people to start studying africanamerican people in history was glory. When glory came out, that was the turning point, because before glory, there were only a few books of them. George washington williams, which was written back in 1880s. It was one of the books collecting dust. Dr. Carr no question. Dr. Salter so it has always been there, but people were not just if that is not what you were looking for, you would not find it. Glory is the turning point. Thats when people realized, hmm, they did fight. That is one of the greatest strengths of the work that krewasky has brought to us. He is uncovering things that we did not know, kind of like the work you do with how professor carr is. Some things are hiding in plain sight. What i would ask is if we can take the two questioners in a row. I want to make sure we have time for additional discussion. We have an additional treat , because nothing is more of a treat them this, we have additional treat before we leave. We have something they are people call me is called a sizzle reel. I dont know what that is. [laughter] i am a freshman at howard university. So, when talking about this idea of like meaning making, or values that these soldiers learned during this time, how would you say it has been passed down to this current generation or the modern black identity . What do you think are some examples of these values, or how could we see the flash of the spirit in present day not only the black community in the United States, but around the world . Kinshasa i would like to take a course from you after i take one , my goodness. [laughter] meaningmaking. Gentleman at the mic. I am a professor from cornell university. On emmette scotts book, i also thought he was being conservative but he does not pull any punches in his study of black soldiers in world war i. Two questions. I wish you would speak a little bit about the military directive that the United States army circulated during world war i, cautioning, especially the french, from fraternizing with africanamerican soldiers, if you could comment about that. Secondly, what do you mean by modern black identity . You did speak a little bit about the new negro movement, but could you expand on modern black identity . Kinshasa just think, we have all of five minutes, which should be a piece of cake for these two gentlemen. [laughter] do you want meaningmaking, or modern black identity . Dr. Salter first of all, stay informed and speak out. That is what a. Philip randolph would say. U bois Philip Randolph was 20 years old when he stepped on stage and challenged the president. He was also the guy that planned the first march on washington. He did not have to do that march, because he got what he wanted. If you look at the picture of 1963, april 28, who is sitting there . A. Philip randolph. What i would say to young people, take some of those lessons from a. Philip randolph and Josephine Baker and do it in your own way. Make sure you are informed and get your message out there. To go into this question about emmett scott. It was about the secret documents. We talk about the secret document in the military gallery upstairs. So there was a circulation which informed the front that we dont socialize and treat africanamericans an in america the way you are treating them here. It was a long letter. That letter was quickly rescinded. It did come out of pershing headquarters. It was written by a french colonel who was directed to write it. Bois wrote ddu his book. He recover that document during his threemonth tour and that is why its printed in the magazine in 1919. Kinshasa a little word from one of our local intellectuals. I have no prejudice towards hu, and you know. [laughter] a little more to add to the brilliance of dr. Salter. Dr. Carr, a little bit about that intellectual. Because, you have read this wonderful book that this gentleman was so involved in, tell us a little bit about that intellectual contact and that shaping of identity. Dr. Carr washington dies in 1915, and emmett scott was in many ways his so he is out of a job at tuskegee. He ends up at howard. They had two of the world war i books. When he raises that, scott goes to france. These are intellectuals were trying to figure out scott goes to france and those soldiers are like, i dont know why they sent you over here to calm us down. Dr. Salter he told the africanamerican soldiers calm , down, dont rock the boat, etc. , etc. , etc. And of course, w. E. B. Dubois comes back and rocks the boat. Ranks. S from close dr. Carr the intellectuals of that period, then and now, the best thinkers are the ones who are engaged thinkers. Randolph is now on the sidelines. In world war ii when he does call off that marge, they are like, hold on, that is not the only reason we were coming to d. C. They end up having a threeday conference at howard and these black women are like, we are not coming just to integrate the military jobs, we are coming to talk about what our race needs. In conclusion, these thinkers are not just writing, they are in the middle of the fight. So we didnt even get to james johnson. When they come back, red summer in 1919, it is a part of that. We talk about the socalled black national anthem. These are brother, the poets. The other is on tin pan alley. There is a whole another venue of thinkers who are also artists. The 369th band. Dont think of intellectuals as armchair people writing and researching books, they are thinkers who are engaged. Dr. Salter the question about modern identity. Can i address that . So what we mean by that, and when insurance or read the opening where he said something forerunners of the Civil Rights Movement, i firmly believe that the world war ii generation were executed the Civil Rights Movement, they were the germination of this needs that were planted by the world war i generation. That new negro, they stirred the pot and planted those seeds. They said, we fought for this country and want our equality. That state. The reason we picked some individuals, Josephine Baker i believe was one of the only women who spoke in 1963. A. Philip randolph was there in 1963. Charles hamilton houston, they do not pass away until 1953, 1954. Those individuals played a critical part in world war i and they planted the seeds for modern identity, which set the stage for the modernday Civil Rights Movement. That is what we mean. Dr. Carr not to mention, you talk about Marcus Garvey and here, the anticolonial movement, in many ways. Dr. Salter we talk about pan african is it in the book, it is in the exhibition. Kinshasa we also would like you to as they say, buy this book , and read more about the great writing of our colleague dr. Salter and repeating the names he mentioned. Lisa woodrow, Brittany Cooper, krewasky himself and curtis winterchad williams, jay. As i said, i have very little time on the stage. If i had time i would give a shout out. If i had time i would give a shout out to them. Lets do one more important thing. I see a beautiful young woman in uniform. Could i ask all active duty and all members of the military who have made the sacrifice for this country to stand. You can stand, too, colonel. [applause] kinshasa bless you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [applause] kinshasa people say it almost as a throwaway, thank you for your service, but we really mean it. Thank you for your service. [indiscernible] kinshasa question you stood up, so i cannot deny you. I cannot deny you, maam. Thank you. You gentlemen have done an excellent job. Nice to meet you. What would you say are the key elements for us to galvanize the military . The military has been a precursor of what happened to society. As my grandmother would say, the more things change, the more they stay the same. So the struggle, we are still fighting. In the United States army, the minority officers, both male and female are dwindling. During the Civil Rights Era , where we were a community, we were interlaced, and we invested , my the future and marched neighborhood right now is getting richer, we are Getting Better and moving out of the community, we are forgetting we do notame from, support each other, we are tearing each other down, jealousy what would you say are the top three factors [indiscernible] [laughter] because also, the Vice President of communications for africanamerican officers. So what you tell me, i will print. Kinshasa no pressure, in other words. [laughter] the top three in terms of how we help each other and reclaim our legacy of helping each other and building each other up. Kinshasa yes maam. you got your three, brother . [laughter] [applause] dr. Carr active duty. Dr. Salter i would say one related to the military. Because we dont have a lot of time. I served for 25 year so i know exactly what you are saying. Ago,ly, a couple of years i ran into an africanamerican officer and mentioned to him, who is in the pipeline . He said it will be fine, they are in the pipeline. I know they are not in the pipeline, because i was studying it. What we have to do as a community, and this is a tough sell, wehis is a tough have got to let our Young Brothers and sisters know that the military is a viable occupation. When i was at west point for three years, i was a recruiter. I recruited africanamericans to come to west point to go into the military. Its a tough sell. But we have got to let our Young Brothers and sisters know that when you go into the military, you are not just going to fight for your country and be used and abused. The reason i have a masters and a phd is because i was in the military. I was a young lieutenant who was selected, i received a letter that said, because of your academic background and your military success, you are a candidate to teach at the United States military academy. I followed through with that. I was on a fiveyear program. For five years, i got paid to be a student for two years and an instructor for three years. I had a professor who told me about this thing called avd. I took all of my phd classes. Three years later i finished my phd while teaching at west point. And there are a host of men and women, white, brown, black, and who have retired from the military and have a second profession because the military created a platform for it. Its not just what you see on tv. And i always tell people, i love boys in the hood but i was a Second Lieutenant when Laurence Fishburne told cuba gooding jr. , the army is no place for a brother. Oh man i had just joined the military the military is a place for a brother and a sister. It is a hard sell, but we have got to. So i am just going to take one. Kinshasa so what is not a hard sell is th this book. [laughter] we will be selling this out of the heritage hall. As we thank you gentlemen one more time. [applause] thank you, gentlemen. God bless you. [applause] announcer sunday at 8 p. M. Eastern, American History tv looks back on the impeachment against resident clinton with the december 1919 98 house floor debate on the articles of impeachment. Today, republicans with a small handful of democrats will vote to impeach president clinton. Why . Because we believe he committed crimes resulting in cheating our legal system. We believe he lied under oath numerous times. That he tampered with evidence. That he conspired to present false testimony to a court of law. We believe he assaulted our legal system in every way. Let it be said that any president who cheats our institutions shall be impeached. Announcer explore our nations past. Watch the clinton impeachment sunday at 8 p. M. Eastern on American History tv. This saturday at 6 00 p. M. Eastern, 3 00 p. M. Pacific, on the civil war 1864 Shenandoah Valley campaign,s civil war scholar talks about operations in the Shenandoah Valley during july and august of 1864. Following a confederate advance on washington, d. C. , a Major General led by a measure general, union and Confederate Forces engaged in battle. Here is a preview. He had only been a Division Commander for a couple of months at this point and he had a rather costly incident where a rash attack cost him hundreds of men killed and wounded during the timeframe. Knowing of his impetuosity, gives him strict orders just go and take position in the northern defenses of winchester. Do not go out looking for a fight. Your job is to cover the withdrawal of the wounded man and the supplies from the warehouses. In the town of winchester. Well, stephen d ramsey gets a report from the cavalry that ce of them for coming down to winchester. So he says, lets take the infantry and go with the amount. He has about 4500 infantry and artillery in his command, and the force which is moving southward from martinsburg only has a little more than 2000 men. The odds are it is favor. Be that as it may, rams are goes out against orders, and as he is deploying his troops to attack, cavarell hits the left flank of s ser and that is pretty much all she wrote. They would lose nearly 400 men killed, wounded or captured. This was honestly the only success that the union had in their pursuit of from washington, d. C. , as early rides north to winchester, when he hears of the disaster, one of the commands under ramsey was the old virginia brigade, and they see them in fort worth and they say, dont blame us, general, ramser is to blame. Soldiers talked about this battle which is called the battle of stephensons depot, the battle of rutherfords farm. One virginia cavalry man who was part of the confederate force wrote in his memoir the name that stuck amongst the soldier was the battle of ramsers butt. Announcer learn more about the Shenandoah Valley Campaign Today on 6 00 p. M. Eastern on the civil war. You are watching American History tv. Our cspan campaign 2020 bus team is traveling across the country asking voters, what issues should president ial candidates address . One of the issues i really for 2020candidates would talk about more often is the issue of Mental Health. It has been a controversial topic for the past several years and a lot of politicians may say, oh, we are going to do this, we are going to do that, but i feel like not a lot is being done about it, and all of a sudden it seems like nobody is talking about it much anymore. And i would like to see that issue have more attention again because it is a very serious issue that is plaguing millions of families across this country. And i would like to see more Health Programs to help you pull that are afflicted with unfortunate Mental Health problems. One of the issues that is very close to home for me is immigration. I would love to have the candidates from either party speak on the topic of immigration, and immigration reform, as well as the current climate that immigration has played a part in our country, because, as you know, america is a melting pot. So i feel like that is something that truly has to be addressed. We cannot ignore what is on, as well as we cant hide the fact that there are issues that need to be addressed and reformed and it comes to immigration. President trump recently israelzed the capital of as jerusalem and transferred our embassy there. I wonder if any of the theidates would follow procedure and continue to recognize jerusalem as the capital of israel, or if they plan to reverse the president ial decision and return the capital i am interested in hearing more about what our president ial candidates plan to do to sustain bcus. Of one, aloyee college in South Carolina, i want to hear more about what the candidates plan to do to sustain in these financially challenging times. Voices from the road on cspan. Up next, republican trent lott of mississippi talks about his time as a new member of the u. S. House on the Judiciary Committee during the impeachment of president nixon in 1973 and 1974. The interview is from the president nixon president ial library and was conducted by the Library Director in 2008. Timothy you surprised a lot of