Years ago, i came to Chapman University from the department at west point. We started from the presupposition based on comments from senior civilian policymakers and senior military officers that we were in an era of persistent conflict for enduring war. We need to undertake a serious study of the relationship between more in society. It seems the few it seems that few could argue war has an indelible impact on our national character. Starting from the mission that we would exam the social, moral and cultural aspects of how societies go to war. And perhaps most importantly how they deal with wars consequences. We believe the program had global applications. In short we wanted the take a serious approach to the study the problems posed. Our vision was for Chapman University to become a National Resource for practitioners. A Program Designed with the old aim of understanding the rule and the costs of war around the globe. That vision is on full view this evening. From those who have fought in wars. Those who have fought long and hard about thought their own experiences and have written honest important works about what it is like to serve in wars. It is my distinct honor to introduce you to our veteran authors. First, a graduate from Yale University and a Rhodes Scholar at oxford university, he served as a marine in vietnam, where he was awarded the bronze star, teedo, dacian ballot Commendation Medals for valor. The 2011 indys choice award for adult debut book of the year, and the Marine Corps Heritage Foundation james webb award for distinguished fiction. He is also author of the highly acclaimed fiction book, what it is like to go to war. Please welcome him. Marjorie k eastman is the awardwinning author of how we serve post 9 11. She served 10 years as an Intelligence Officer and commander. Started out before being awarded without direct commission. She has her ba in Political Science from the university of california san diego. And from the graduate school of vanderbilt university. She was selected as one of the nations top 25 influencers, supporting the military community, and was recently named one of the 2019 10 Outstanding Young americans by the Junior Chamber international usa. Please join me in welcoming or and finally, scott is a retired u. S. Army oh my god. A retired u. S. Marine 24 years of Honorable Service as an enlisted and commission officer. His 2018 book is a story of Echo Companies second battalion marines. Scott has written articles, editorials and scholarly pieces for usa today, fox news channel, and the marine corps gazette, military times, townhall, and daily signal. He is the executive Director Director of a certified nonprofit that next veterans through outreach programs. And a nonprofit that helps veterans and activeduty marines. Please join me in welcoming scott. Im going to start off and ask a specific question to each of our panelist as sort of a warm up, then we are going to open it up to general questions for the entire panel to discuss, then ultimately we will have a dialogue with you all and the audience will have a chance to participate with their own questions. Im going to start with you. It wasnt enough to do heroic things, i had to be recognized for them. Can you help us understand this as a young man. Its hard for me to understand it myself. My father, i think all young men some feedback. My father was in world war ii and had some metals, but he would never talk about them. There was sort of some mystery to the medals. I was 50, my father, it was christmas time, they were fighting the battle of the bulge at christmas time. My dad looks up and says, yeah, i was in that. First time i knew. He didnt show them or anything. There are sons and fathers, and it is almost genetic. And i as good as my father . The wanting to see it part, and i ought about that, it is a combination of societal genetics and it is all mixed up. You think about kids in high school. The girls would spend an hour getting ready for school. It was clear to them they were in this group. And they wanted people to know it. I got a lettermans jacket. I think it is about status, it is about being recognized as a member of the group and about being an alpha female and alpha male. We have different ways of doing it. We wear jeans with holes in them. I think it is the same sort of thing for medals. If i did do it would people see that i did it . He got it all right here. People check it out. You can immediately sort of put somebody in a place and i think showing that you have done it is part of it, it is also part of saying i am of this special group, look up to me, and it is about status. I talk about the fact it is too bad we all have to do that. We all realize how uniquely special we are from childhood. Society beats that out of us, by the time you get to college you are not special at all. I think it is a genetic drive. I dont know any way to explain it. Did that appeal change as you got older . The attraction . Did that change at all as you got older . When i was in combat, every once in a while i would think, it would be got would be nice to get metals. The issue is why do you want to get the metal . I think part of growing up is you doing it for the right reasons, that is to save somebody in your unit. Initially people understand if metals are given out somebody is messed up. I talk about what it is like to go to war. The guy was trapped underneath machine gun. Someone will write me up for a metal. A medal. It was no secret i said, if i go get them you will write me up . He said yes, posthumously. It turns out quite tragic. I had to keep the machine gun from shooting up the hill. He got nervous and i pointed it out to him. I was firing to keep the machine guns head down. I realize there was a bullet hole in his head. The whole thing about trying to get the metal turned to ashes. It was a very tough lesson. To this day i dont no. The second meddled was with the opposite, i thought i learned that lesson. The thing about that metal was it was in a salon way bogged down, and it happened in the marine corps. People went behind locks and they had machine dress up in front of us, marines dont go backwards, so it was either stay there and get slaughtered or go up the hill. I had to figure out something to get out of that pickle. So i just stood up and started to run. It was almost like an outof body experience, but what was amazing to me, i was probably running up the hill for maybe five or eight seconds, endicott movement out of the corner of my eye. I rolled what i shot was a soldier, and it was one of my squad leaders. The whole company was coming up behind him. We got out of the pickle, that was the right way to get a medal. Unfortunately they, dont come cheap. It was a hard lesson. And the frontline generation, you share a different reason for joining the military, one which your parents say were decidedly unhappy about. What drew you to the uniform, and what was it like to have proud parents who nonetheless are skeptical about you serving . Youre referring to the line where my mom says you have a college degree, you should not have to go. She was from the vietnam generation, you know little bit about that . My mom and my dad were born and raised, in part of big, midwest farm families. My mom had four of her brothers serving in vietnam. So it is very difficult for her, and my father. My father was unable to go to vietnam because of medical disqualifications, but he still had his draft card to this day. So they were decidedly unhappy, but they also knew that i was doing it for the right reasons. I joined the military after 9 11 because of 9 11. I saw what happened on that day, and no one does that to our country. No one does that, so i needed to do something, and i did not want to sit on the bench. President bush says something important. As americans, you have to continue on with your way of life because the terrorists want us to change. Theyre trying to terrorize us, so is that something very important, but also, there was no call to action, and we needed a call to action because we just spent the nineties cutting the fourth down, and everything was about to change, so even in his car when he was saying, continue on with the regular lifestyle, go to the mall, continue to shop, i think he said Something Like that. I dont want to just go shopping. I started looking at my options, and it turned out that the army was the right fit for me. I step up and step into my generational story. You had to make a phone call to a mother. Why did you start the book there, and what does this tell you about the responsibility that military leaders half . Great trying to get me to cry on c span, he tried and failed, but i love you for having us here today, and the panelists and all of you for showing up, because without you these stories of our nations heroes, and greg is absolutely one of them, he plays a slick professor on tv by day, but a warrior at heart. Its an interesting question because you have to let me lead by 9 35 get to lax and catch a flight strike to the first memorial run, and i havent seen his mom and dad since 2007, so its going to be pretty emotional. His brother and i have kept in touch, with the real personal aspects of what every veteran here deals with a small pieces of life are important to share because ive never been a writer or a storyteller, thats not what im great at. Greg is great at that. Hes a historian. My skills telling stories of people, and the emotions, and what it felt like to have that happen in your life. And then how to, not only talk about the bad things, but how they affected you and how you moved through that. Everybody has been a drunk at some point, or failed in a relationship, or gotten bad grades. I want to hear about those stories. I want to hear about how you got better through that, and i share those wins and losses with everybody, or listening to your stories, or all those problems and how you get better. I think as a society, as a veteran community those are the vital stories. The generations of the cultures that weve been worsened, that we are so very fortunate to be able to share hours now, without having to wait for decades, or to see Vietnam Veterans giving a medal five years later. We have a responsibility to do that and when i open up with this gutwrenching story, i have some maureen saying, thanks for making me cry on a plane in front of a total strange lady. Thats important thing to tell, and i tell them to suck it up, and move on. I think thats the important thing. They share off that important thing, we get it, and i think those are great. Id like to open us up for all three of you, there are elements of what we call a philosophy needs if youre. Books theres no one style of one set of trees, but what did your service talk about the key elements of your philosophy . I like it when the marines go in front of me. But a gentleman. The chapter of my book, as you see we all have an understanding of what that means. Its an understanding about leadership, you can see it this way as well, i leader all night has more influence on other than any command, philosophy. The character matters, how he walked the walk matters and each and every one of us as a sphere of influence. Each and every one of us. Every walk of life and the big secret is that you dont need a title to be a leader. I saw this time and time again. Every day i was in the military. My favorite example of that, that i can share, as one with josh wells rich, he was doctor elders in his day job as a chiropractor, he was also in the reserve. After an update, atlanta for the colonel that and one of the areas of operations where i had some teams, there is an orphanage. There might be an opportunity to have full spectrum intelligence operations so that was perfect. And that would fall into one of those buckets of what we were doing. What did the colonel say . Great, make it happen. Great. At one point to go through a briefing or have a field manual that says its a performer mission and orphanage. Hes giving me that i like, hey we, have to talk, and my soldier look out for me. I was fortunate to serve with outstanding men and women, we get out of the battle briefing room, analysis like, i have an idea. He says, let me call my church back home, we will figure out how to rally and we will get some gloves and hats and scarves to really hold up, and when the team goes, up they can deliver this humanitarian aid as a warm welcome of saying, no to the area and will bring this peaceful gesture. Were thinking, can we do that . The last thing you want is American Christian church on the front page of the newspaper, giving cold weather beer, but i see this energy in his eyes. I knew, one of the things about being a leader is that you have to Insight Initiative with those you lead. That means you have to be uncomfortable. And you have to say yes, you not only ask why should we do it this way, but he also to say why not. Why not, and i said, you know what make it happen. I said, let me go and figure out the paperwork, so you can call the church. A month and a half, we had box upon box. Nearly 70 children benefited and we had great relationships. You hear story throughout my book that talk, and key moments in opportunities and how you can lead and do it well, but just remember how you lead your own life, start their was a question . Im overwhelmed and inspired, but craig knows i dont take notes. Leadership philosophy . Leadership philosophy. So many great example sitting right here. They trained you in schools as young lieutenants and captains and majors and colonels, how to write a leadership philosophy, and i kind of probably broke from the norm on that i never wanted to be a page long soliloquy that was plastered over a journal in the locker room and 1820 year old set have the half the responsibility to take human lives, you have to inspire them. Yet understand they need to do that. My leadership philosophy would be very clear, and its very short. We will train hard, we will fight and we will win. That wasnt. It if they could i remember that in my absence, i did something wrong. I i always envisioned it as Something Like this, and i use, things are going pretty bad. Its getting pretty bad over here. Theyre getting very, close and its not looking good for us. I say, what should we do . He looks to me, and says i dont know, what do you think the boss is one of studio, what do you think the ceo wants us to do. Thats what marine do, we win. That is the guidance i wanted to impart on that guy in my absence, and i think that being a strong leader, and i talk about this all the time, people will look at my book and see this maureen who says that hes going to do bad things to you, but its really a book about leadership and Team Building and overcome adversity. And people. And this. And this amazing human connection. If anyone asked me what the Court Message as, its meeting people like tom and saying, i remember when we came to that discussion. Thats the power. Three leading young people and respecting the people that and trust us to lead the young men and women in some of the worst conditions. If youre not doing that, every single day you are failing as a leader, and i will call anyone out on that, and it would be because, as you, know there is no room for error. If you drop a couple sales order at xerox, the company is not going under. If you feel as a leader in the marine corps in combat or in the army, its a lot different. Id say there are two big things in my life. One is confident. The other one is authenticity. These kids, and their kids, their lives depend on you. If you cant call in the air strike at the right place, its bad and they dont have any control over your competency. That competency has to be demonstrated, you cant just say, oh, i went to school and earned it, does say yeah right. If you want to strip the machine gunned down, its a show them you know how to do it. So competency really is a lot, because it builds confidence. If youre not going to lead them to stray, the authenticity part is really interesting, because these kids can detect a kyle five miles away. Its amazing. You cannot pull the wool over their eyes. If you try to, immediately, it will not work. Ive seen new lieutenants show up, or new sergeants show, up and literally within one minute their fate is sealed. You think its almost mystical, the kids are looking, at their lives are making a judgment about whether to fall or not. I think what ive noticed is, once we succeed and winning them over, so to the ones who are totally authentic. Its like, here i am. I had this job, were going to get through this together, and im not going to mess with you. If you do, its done. Competency and authenticity are the two keys in my mind. I think weve all seen that phenomenon of modern wars intertwined with ordinary civilian world. If you might share what it was like being on the battlefield opposite hit by civilians, and how did that experience change you. Well, for me, weve been hanging over the last two days, and we just met, weve known each other for years, but theres this cool thing and social media and sharing a network. We talk about these things, and the different types of wars and disguise raining on you every single day at night, in an environment we are facing this threedimensional huawei are literally fighting every single day two three, four times a day, in direct contact and very close proximity with a well trained force, and how you deal with that under those conditions is something that, honestly, you learn as you go. All the preparatory training that you get from entry level to advanced level training as a young marine doesnt prepare you for the dynamic nature of that kind of warfare, and i think, as we were thrust into this city, it was also populated by 300,000 iraqis. These are people. They werent collateral damage. They were husbands, and wives, sons, and daughters, and they wanted their kids to grow up. And they never saw them as people. They took us and sometimes, they fed us, they gave us china, they gave us information at times when their own lives are at risk, and i think that was a unique experience because our military in this day and age as we has fought for 14 years now in iraq in afghanistan, we did have a unique understanding of the culture that we were fighting and. In the vietnam and world war ii generations on how these guys were trained, and we dance around the issues of dehumanizing the enemy to make them easier to kill. We can always give them a box of ammunition, and some drive to go from zero to 60. To get that same color to go from 60 to zero as a real leadership challenge. Even as a captain with 35 years of experience, multiple wars, little life skills, to not view that enemy thats viewing the same as he just killed, that needed to be killed. Thats a tough challenge in that type of urban environment. When you asked a question about civil unions being intertwined, i thought of it from a different perspective. I thought civilians that were on our team, as we were going and, because thats part of the costs for station, that suppose 9 11, that its very different about the global war on terrorism. At any given time, you would look on the c 17 and they will be just as many defense contractors, Government Agency workers, state Department Officials and it was just unbelievable. I think about it as, force multiplier but we also need to ask the question of the military industrial complex. If we can fulfill our Foreign Policy commitments with soldiers sailors not that we should have to do so entirely put it we are augmenting half the force with other civilian entities come on. When you talk about this and those civilian teammates of hours, they need to have just as much respect. It doesnt matter if theyre a defense contractor or work at the state department or wherever. They were helping in their way. They found ways to serve and they need incredible amounts of respect. When i think about how civilians intertwined and thinking about the team members that we had that are also part of the equation and they still are today. I think there is a moral issue to, really think about civilian contractors, as a whole bell shaped curve, but you take someone like blackwater whos running a Bowling Alley for whoever, if we are at war, we are killing people, and normally if you kill people its called murder, its only if a state decides it has to defend itself that you are allowing its military to kill people. Those people are under the protection of the moral authority that this is a military that its constituted by the civilians. If you are killing somebody for pay, thats called being an assassin. I think its a very big difference, and i think that we are starting to be very loose about where the lines are drawn. The marines to their own dishes and cooked their own food, there was no mcdonalds but if youre going to pay mcdonalds to participate in the war effort, back home, before making food to send to the military, but at some point, you go on the battlefield, whereas that line between being assessed and being a duly constituted a member of a republicans trying to defend. Where losing side of that. I think we need to do some careful thinking about it. Having paid mercenaries doing are fighting for us, i think its wrong. Period. I wonder if i can continue on this track and shift to talk about this unfortunate necessity, which is killing. I think all of you saying, i was ordering marines to kill, and it was going to be my burden to carry. You discuss this weight as well. How did you all deal with this burden of killing, not just for yourselves but for your soldiers and marines dealing with this burden. We jokingly say as riders, that it was garnered from years of great mentors and marines that i was surrounded by, that i knew that vanilla 250 marines and sailors into the deadliest city of iraq and say this not i probably. We lost more soldiers in any other city. These young men that are thrust into this, theyve never seen this. It looks glamorous, and the metal seem attractive at that time, but as we were thrust into that city those medals meant nothing to me. The only thing that matters bring its many men home alive as possible. One of the ways to do that, i sat down and ordered them to kill. I said you will kill, im ordering you to kill. Because it never ever wanted that marine to hesitate when he had to put that rifle and his shoulder, put a finger on the twitter, love to the side of that scope and make the conscious lifechanging decision to take another human life. Its a terrible and terrific thing to do, and to ask an 18 year old kid, was probably playing football the year before or, thats a hard thing to do, and thats something i felt as a commander, that was my burden to carry. I never wanted them to leave that space, that horrible place of war that humans create to think that it was their fault. That was my burden. One of the things that i came to understand, we talk a lot about bringing people home, theres this rifle, its built in factories by factory workers were felt by farmers, and the people who designed it were Top Secondary School teachers, in this whole rifle is this chain of events that gets in the hands of some 18 year old and at the end of this long chain where everybody is involved, their taxes to pay for the rifle, the kid pulls the trigger, he did the killing. No, when we say he did the killing, i think we have to be more conscious about it. We did the killing. Everybody in this room is responsible for all that killing. You voted for the people, he paid the taxes. The idea that some 18 year old, and this is something were not dealing. With our combat action batch like thousands of others who were not combat action. Within just a couple of days of arriving in afghanistan, our unit and the base we were on received rocket attacks. Those rocket attacks repeated the entire time we were there, and it would depend on your location if it were weekly or daily. Within a couple of weeks of being there, about two and a half, one of the soldiers, and intelligence professionals died when he drove over and id. So in the sense of killing, when you think about killing and it gets back to the aspect of a greater purpose. The greater purpose, pretty quickly when youre on the ground is about the person to your left and right. It always has been, and always will be, every generation, its timeless. That cant be enough on why you are there and why you are fighting. There needs to be more of a greater purpose. I think about, well into my deployment in afghanistan, if you have been deployed, who has been deployed by the way . Raise your hand if youve been overseas combat. Thank you. You also know, you get lots of care packages, right . Especially after halloween, you get all that junk candy that the dentists want to get out of there, right . One of the care packages we received, at least halfway to my tour, wonderful teachers have their students write letters to Service Members overseas. Someone in my unit had grabbed one of these letters and taped it on the wall, and said hey everybody, read this letter. I walk in after the joint Operations Center and said i have to read the letter. I go in and i see it on the wall, and they are saying, thank you for freeing us from allocators grasp. Okay it was spelled wrong. The child understood the greater purpose and they were writing this to us. It was fascinating, and entertaining. It was absolutely a great reminder because you do get into, its about the person youre left to right, but you get back to that greater purpose. H of you, in your own war and weigh faced a committed enemy on the battlefield, one that inspired a great deal of emotions. You wrote and one journal entry that after one, i hate the taliban more than ever. There was always his potential for evil to become very ordinary, given that combat, as you say, all out aggression will help save your life. You seek retribution. How did you deal with this anger, if that hatred towards your enemy without allowing that violence to spiral out of control . I can step up to that. I failed. I got into the same mode he became the character of vancouver who was killed saving his platoon, and everybody was just furious. On the next assault we just decided not to take any prisoners. I said okay, thats fine. And i regret that. I slipped into that, and its really easy because its like, you killed him, will kill all of them. We are all capable of this, civilization is this spiderweb that hangs over us, that keeps us under control. Without that control, that civilizing influence i call it the mad monkey, it just comes out. Were not the top animal on the food chain, because were nice. We are the top animal and a really vicious species. We are also a kind of species. So, the leadership job is to try and maintain that spiderweb of a civilization, that borders the loss. We have to geneva convention, a lot of people who dont understand war will say everything is fair and war, you have to go all out. Bill due to you if you do to them. It works both ways. You come up with conventions about not prisoners, because you dont want to kill our prisoners. Okay. We have to play by the rules. There are rules. This idea of ive told the story more than once. Its an important story because, we have been surrounded, and there is a very bad six, seven days of fighting. I was doing a line check, and a couple of kids had years stuck in their helmet. Theyve cut the ears off of the bodies just by the fighting holes. I just turned 23, i was not as mature as i am now. You could not let that go on. I had seen terrible stuff but the ears in helmets, that was the stuff that i had seen that made me go oh no. I said this kids i know they killed your friends but you killed their friends. They are just humans. You cut their years off. You cant do this. We, want allow this to happen. I did not say i would courtmartial you or any of that stuff. I had some compassion for these kids. I said we are going to go bury those bodies. It was maybe 20 meters below the funny holes. Fighting holes. They had to go down there with shovels and start digging a grave. For these bodies to bury with the ears. They both started crying. They started crying as they done this whole. Burial is a civilizing ritual that we care for our dead. Suddenly they were doing the burial of human beings. Not the or the other names. An ordinary person cant kill that person. Leadership has to bring you out of it, quickly. That is what was happening there. Saying here, we have rules. The minute that happened, it had gotten a hold of me. If you repress it and say we dont have that, it works. You watch it come out in mobs and hatred. You have to understand it is there. You also have to understand that your job is to guide it and keep it under control. That is the point of leadership and war. Keeping it staying that way. That is part of the training that we get. Even as a young lieutenant and being a guy who manages several Young Marines that think theyre doing the right thing. You have to control the chaos where you have all this friction surrounding you at any given time. Those experiences of war are absolutely timeless that karl experienced, korean war vets experienced, i experienced. We see this playing out in the media to this day. Whether it is desecrating bodies or the conflict of a Service Member killing a captured president. Prisoner. There is a responsibility we have not just as officers who take an old but people oathe but as people. Not only do you have to enforce military justice and our code of conduct and our oath of office that we swear to but the basic american rule of law that once you capture someone and put handcuffs on them, you own them. You are responsible for their life. I think the public can easily get emotional about certain issues and then they see this and they go why are they being tried for this . At the and of the day, i dont want to serve and marine corpse that allows migrants to be cut loose and society. I do want to bring those types of people back here, that have trouble reintegrating all those pieces of trauma, doing legitimate killing and combat, so thats a real tough thing that, as this war, this discussion, this team of protracted war, how long to be pulled these wars out, when is enough enough, and how we do a defined winning at the political and strategic level so we dont have to second and Third Order Effects of the trauma of war on the individual soldier, and the public. The American People accepting our veteran Community Back in, knowing full well that they signed the, that they gas up the airplanes and sent young men and women over there to protect that way of life. So we can build rifles and cars, tvs and xbox is. Thats what we do. But we can never lose sight of that as an element of leadership within our military, those basic tenets and those Core Principles are essential so that we continue to survive as a nation. As a marine corps. 500 years. 250 more christmases unless we figure it out. What i wish people would understand is that you start sending young men and they get older and older, on their seventh and their ninth tours, at some point they are going to break, at some point something is going to go wrong. That doesnt mean that you can excuse, it so i am completely in agreement with scott on this, you cannot excuse it but at the same time you cant do it with some kind of disdain or some kind of moral superiority, this person committed this horrible thing, you killed a prisoner or peed on a dead body or whatever it was. Youve just got to say its part of the same tragedy of the war itself, that you have to punish them, you have to punish them and because otherwise that civilizing threat is broken and you never get it back. You punish them without hate, and you punish them without moral superiority. You punish them with sadness because they finally broke down and they did something wrong, but you cant let it slide, that the attitude that they were horrible people they werent horrible people, they, most of the time they were really young and its a tragedy they were in jail but they were in jail for a reason. Anything . I think these guys really covered the question very well. Im going to come to you, next. Marjory argues in her work that showing compassion is not a weakness. And that theme is really shared by scott, you know that breaking down after that marine was killed, you wanted to be emotionally steady, and carl you, talk about the theme for empathy. How did you reach deal with the emotional side of the war . Finding that balance between sharing your own emotions, yet being reliable and steady in front of soldiers and civilians . You had to i mean, you are human. You have to have compassion, right . For me, i just, we talked earlier and you had asked about dehumanizing. Let me say this, let me back up. Especially as a woman, we are often reviewed that she has great compassion, or whatever, as a leader or whatnot, thats great but you are not going to get promoted if you have excellent compassion, right . And this is true. Its been proven by studies. I encourage you to read a book, and excellent book, its called athena rising lineman should mentor women, written by two austin phds at the naval academy. And it speaks to this because man typically get reviewed as analytical, and who are you going to promote at the end of the day . If you have to cut jobs, to the want to keep on the team . Analytical, right . Well, think about it that way but what i will say, you will go further, you have to have both. You have to know when to drop the hammer and you have to absolutely no when you need to hold someone and hug them because you just delivered a red cross message that someone they loved very dearly back home just died. You have to have both of these tools in your tool kit, and you have to just be human because, by the way, that help you in your job so one of my soldiers, actually, she was just a phenomenal intel a gator interrogator. One Early Morning, it was an Early Morning report, we had a local National Come up to the base and they wanted to give us some information. Kind of nervous, as most of the walk ups are, so ashley was on call and she sat with him in what we call the booth, she is getting the information, whats going on. It was through compassion and being analytical and not dehumanizing this source that walked up, this local national, that she was able to figure out why he wanted to talk. This was a person who had most likely been a taliban sympathizer or fighter or whatever at some point in his history, but she still worked with this individual and at the end of the day figured out and empathized enough to realize he had information about the largest weapons cache outside of the airfield, and his kids were playing there and he didnt want them yet. And she figured out how to do that because she is so good at her job. And within 24 hours i was on a convoy with her, we went to the edge of the cleared landline field and we removed and we detonated insight that cash of weapons which was over 600 munitions, and that was in 2010. You must have both tools and your toolkit. In ashley was a wonderful example that day, she continues to be so. Im reminded of this story. Okay, this is a marine corps had a show passion . Is this going to be a short answer . laughs so theres a mother died, and i know youre not going to be good at this but you have to find some way to break the news to smithers so that it goes easy on him. I said, okay. So then he goes out and lined up the platoon and says, everybody with a living mother one step forward, not you smithers. Anything to add . Thats tough to talk. Theres a mask of command, you cant across the boundaries. And each level of command you know, this because you were a lieutenant. You have a closer level, so as you rise you have more responsibility and you have to know that, and i applied this as i was leaving 100 and marines and calm, but i was not there to be your friend. I was there to be their commander. They have enough friends, family had one commander. They have one guy thats going to make the decisions that will bring the majority of them alive, and i think thats a tough thing to balance because we all agree on the aspect, its absolutely vital to be authentic. I dont want to sit here and have a bunch of all the points, and talking point. I think the message has to be clear but being authentic in everything you do, at every level i think theres a way to filter that, and still maintain boundaries so that the marines dont thank me and tom our drinking buddies, and at the end of the day, that is not the case. He has been in the marine corps 18 months, and ive been in 15 years. There are vast areas of gray in there, and you have to know that. But, as a great leader, you also have to understand that the textbooks that we learn all these great leadership tools, there are words that arent written, and those words are the ones in between the lines, like love, compassion, and caring, concern. And the really great leaders you can see in between the lines. I think that is what sets the good ones apart from the great ones. Okay, i have two more questions than i will turn it over to the audience to join into the conversation. First, really supporting our theme about the United States being in this era of perpetual or, are we becoming more comfortable with this comfortable of enduring war, and what are the implications of that, especially on those who serve . Well, since i was the representative tonight for afghanistan, and we have been fighting in afghanistan for 18 years, and we continue to fight there today. In fact, on monday we lost a first sergeant. His name is jeremy. How Many Americans do you think know that . Thank you. We are still fighting this war. In fact, we have had 775,000 Service Members that have worn a uniform that have been deployed to afghanistan and been indicator over the last 18 years. The most revealing part of this number, this was a tremendous article in the washington post, the most revealing fact about that number is that nearly half of those Service Members who opened deployed and the longest war in our history have served multiple deployments, multiple deployments. So as i ask you to remember a name, you need to also remember names like growth, and vazquez, and tests, tests being one of my soldiers. Tess served for deployments by the age of 25, when he was with me in 2010. In afghanistan. I served two tours. How many did you serve, scott . Many. My husband surface 17 combat tours, so there are names and prevailing, and enduring war has a face. If america is covered with that, we need to ask ourselves why are we comfortable with that. Because less than 1 of americans are performing our Foreign Policy commitments overseas. Im all about talking about and during a conflict, and at the second aspect of enduring conflict, and endless wars is not putting a timeline. The 2009 through ten when i was in afghanistan, and president obama said we will draw down forces in 2011. The very next day, my intelligence collectors couldnt get anything, because they were talking to villages, communities, all other sources, and they said we were leaving in two years, why would i work with you . Because youre leaving in two years, and i have to still live down the road from the taliban fighters. So you never, never put a timeline on an enduring conflict like this. , and last thought on this, you dont fight a war an 18 year war one year at a time. We need to think about what is our greater vision. Scott mentioned it earlier. What are our goals, objectives, and we need to pace. We dont go to war to fight war as, we go towards to win them. That is what we need to do. Carl is contemplating i. Am speechless. I am. Well hes mulling around, coming up with some answers, outcome up with an illinois state, not yale, answer. We talked about this. I wrote an article about it and carl and i were talking about this. It was very simple. It was, walmart wins the war. Im a farm believer that we have to go into these areas of conflict, we officials what right looks like. Not iraqi democracy, not afghan democracy, but democracy. Theres only one flavor, and the guys in the marine corps and the army, and what we do, we really good at a few things, one of them is breaking stuff up and blowing stuff up. Were not great at building stuff up. Thats not what we are great at, we right about this and it bothers me when i would see senior government officials, senior military officials who are geniuses like me, who had a criminal justice degree, talking about governance, infrastructure, rebuilding countries, really called me to know and and until we get to the level where the administration is going to implement the right before the right job for the right reason, our political party. You see any senators going to iraq afghanistan saying, this is how you build a congress . Now. D. C. Anyone from walmart or home depot or google going over and, say this is how you build infrastructure. This is how you build these small little megastores of con mars, that creates money. They wont risk their bottom line to support our national security. Thats way too crazy of a concept, so crazy, it just might work. Right . You know this. What if there is a wall . And they say soccer rules not the only toy in the free world. Until we get to that point when we have that world war ii mentality when people are turning in medical to they can support the war effort, we could get back and be great students of our history, from the specific theater and the european, theater then we have to stay committed to win and show people what right looks like. That is the end state. That is not just my vision, but i think i share that with a lot of people that have sacrificed. One of the problems of the 1819 years of war, is a chicken and egg problem. You have a professional military that is over there doing its job. You get the feeling that its about outsourcing. Its outsourcing the responsibilities of the republic, i dont think we would be in 18 or 19 yards long wars if we do not have the ability to outsource it to a professional military. If kids that went to harvard and yale were also fighting, the war would last shorter. So the problem a perpetual war is aided and abetted by a small, tiny percentage of the country carrying the burden. If they did not carry the birth and, the rest of us would have to, and i dont think we would have perpetual war. I think you have the equivalent of the guard now. The president concern the military which he wants with no blow back, because the parents of the children who go to harvard and yale dont care. Those kids, their parents work at walmart. And we are in danger of a terrible class structure that is increasing, and its making the worse last longer. We have this pickle, we talk about a National Service, its the only fair way to break ourselves of this, i think, continuing to grow problem. I dont want everyone to join the marine corps, because i have three kids, and three out of five i wouldnt want to be anywhere near the marine corps. And they can definitely dig fire trails, or build airports. Theres all kinds of service that they can do. And we could get out of this problem. Its not just half of 1 thats carrying the burden. Seven Southern States account for more than half of the military. Seven. We have 50, hello the other thing is damning, if you take the top three domiciles in terms of income, where they come from, the neighborhoods, are they from high earning income compared to the bottom three, the bottom three desolate more of the hits. In world war ii it was 1. 2. By vietnam, it was 1. 4 times. Now, its 1. 7 times. Thats a very big trend that the poor kids are taking the hit, increasingly. Is the republic at war or are we just outsourcing it to the kids, the lower middle class kids. We have to break that, were going to be in picked trouble. In one sentence or less, what is the most important thing that you want everyone to take away from this conversation about the relationship between a warning society. One sentence or less . Thats yours. Thats because carles books are like this take i think in his book . Oh my god our country will not survive if we dont have some form of National Service going forward. And, ill keep breathing, last thought, i just needed to say this, because weve had a lot of current news about the peace talks in afghanistan. We need to have women, im not saying this because im a woman, but the studies show, throughout several decades of research, go to the council on Foreign Relations website to, find this research, when you have women at the table for these peace talks and building on the agreement, because when we do, these agreements have a 35 chance of lasting. And i dont know about you, but i want it to last, so just a thought. My one sentence would, be we need to remember that we are a republican everybody in the republic is responsible for fighting the republics wars. Ive been able to train a lot of people to shoot their rifle straighter, to run faster, to take care of Young Marines but i can never ever teach anyone to care. You cant teach someone to care. If you dont care about being an american, its all completely worthless to me. So it starts here in the community, it starts by taking action and having the compassion, and care in that ability to share the message, and nothing that anybody wants to listen and go out there and do something. Make a change. We are simply doing it through one medium of writing, all of us to do that on a daily basis in some structure, but you have to care. If youre not willing to do that, you dont get a voice so, care. I need to be respectful of scots time because he needs to head to the airport. If you could all join me in a round of applause. applause so, for those of you that have served in the military. He will understand the importance of unit coins, challenge points. We have those here in the war and supposedly program, what they are is a token of appreciation but also a token of you joining the family. I cant think of a better way to say thank you for joining in the chapman Warren Society family. applause all right, our authors are going to stay here this evening for a little bit longer to have a conversation with you. They are going to be available to sign their books. On your table you have a flyer for a followup event which is on the 23rd of october on the psychological cost of war. I can tell you its going to be just as great as the conversation you heard this evening. Thank you so much for the support coming out this evening. Thank you for engaging in this conversation and have a safe trip home. Thank you so much for coming. applause noise cspan to the camp 2020 competition is in full spring. Students are creating short documentaries on the issues they would most like the 2020 president ial candidates to address in their campaigns, and we would love to see your progress. Take us behind the scenes and share your photos using the hashtag student cam 2020 for a chance to win additional cash prizes. Still working on an idea . We have resources on our website to help out. Our Getting Started page at student cam dot orcas information to guide you through the process of making a documentary. Cspan will award 100,000 dollars in total cash prices, including a 5000dollar grand prize. All eligible entries will be a prolonged and received by midnight on january 20th, 2020. The best advice i can give two young filmmakers and student participants is not to be afraid to take your issue seriously. You are never too young to have an opinion, so let your voice be heard now. For more information, go to our website, student cam dot work