This hearing is called to order. I want to thank you for your written testimony and prayer oral testimony and the answers to our questions. I asked that my written Opening Statement be put in the record. On to make a couple of comments about what i want to see the goal of the searing to be. Ive done this in a while but my chairman developed a statement to enhance the Economic Security of america for a more Efficient Government and the reason im pointing out today is i cant think of a hearing where that statement is more of likable. When we talk about 5g we talk about the Economic Opportunity in order to take advantage of that opportunity to avoid those Security Risks, we need more Efficient Government to step up in competing against what is becoming a friendly economic rival but adversary in the many cases on the line on the world stage in china. So, in terms of the definition of its product, im really hoping to be able to lay out a certified definition at lay out some priorities of things we need to address so that we can focus everyones attention on this. Let me take a stab. This is an unusual opportunity. Its an opportunity moving to 5g which would be trillions of dollars of activity. Its an enormous opportunity with the competition and take advantage of that opportunity and the problem rises if we dont take advantage, if youre not a leader. Other people that the standards and those other people primarily in china are not setting the standards which will contribute to a free and open society. We have the economic aspects of this and we set the standards that china poses of intellectual property theft and one of the reasons we compete on 5g is because weve stolen hundreds of millions of dollars and they are now threatening to leapfrog us so the action of the basic problem definition in the opportunity. We have to address the allocation and a listen three different types of bands. We can really talk to us about that and setting the standards we have to look at a trusted supply chain where there is not proper market activity. We are competing against a non market economy and a bad economy and strategic competitor and we have to take a look at the market breakdowns here and do something from the standpoint of government to make sure that we support the Supplier Base that were going to need and that is my relatively simple topic issue and one of our Top Priorities and we really appreciate it and lets encourage everybody to simplify this as much as possible. We have this hearing with a pretty good understanding of what were facing and the steps that we have to take. One final comment, i think you are first in your briefing which was called about a month ago and my input in that would be is who in charge in this with the stuff im hard and by the fact in her testimony that they definitely have an answer. Its a National Economic council and i spoke to larry kudlow last night and has been actively engaged together with the chairman of the fcc and with active involvement with President Trump as well. This is our priority, its taken that way and whos in charge of this effort and certainly what weve heard in that briefing is that we have the agencies that are working very cooperatively and weve got that piece and its great that everyone is working together with all the component experts but for my satisfaction, this is the agency in the individual that is in charge of this and could be held accountable for what these goals could be when they need to take them. Im already hardened by it just going by the briefing and im really looking forward to hearing yourself and being a little bit more confident and that were not as behind as i thought we were leading up to a pretty good position and poised to go ahead and win this competition. With that the senator continues. Thank you mister chair. Thank you to for a witnesses for being here today. Our economy is truly global. Internet access is no longer a luxury logic its necessary and it drives economic development. The interaction of 4g technology brought us live streaming, on broadband delivery and now 5g era is before us. Its faster, stronger, wireless collection and transform our Digital World enabling new technology by precision, agriculture, so driving cars and augmented reality. 5g networks with new technologies will create countless new jobs in michigan, generate billions of dollars of economic worth all across our country. 5g has the potential to unleash new productivity in the alps of the United States as a Global Leader in innovation and developing the infrastructure to support 5g networks across the country which does not come without risk. Today, china, our nations greatest global competitor, is poised to leave the world in advancing this very important technology. Chinas edge and the development of 5g that poses a threat to Economic Dominance as well as our National Security. The u. S. Is increasingly aligned on High Speed Services to support not only our work and our economy but also our defense industry. And the race to expand 5g access with a series of supply chains by purchasing and deploying chinese equipment for Companies Like huawei and cte. Their Intelligence Community are beholden to the Chinese Government. The devices these companies provide offer costeffective solutions and help close the digital divide. They also pose a series of National Security risks i could open a back door into a critical American Security network. Given the serious National Security risk, we must have a delicate balance to ensure that 5g networks are both secure and widely available in both rural and urban areas. Chinas advantage and 5g may be a reality for now but it is something that we have the power to change. The United States government has an opportunity to play a key role in america as resurgence as a leader and the development of 5g networks. The challenge of this magnitude requires a strong and unified collaborative approach capitalizing on the full power of american inaudible . Today, our efforts are pin piecemeal and disorganized. We have not had the leadership or the National Strategy to accomplish this very issue. Im encouraged by the agreement that this committee has made his the support as a whole. The 5g activity will encourage prosperity from urban and Rural Communities and iowa up tremendous Economic Growth and reestablish america as a leader of global innovation. I hope this hearing will serve as a driving force to help us assure in this new age. Build momentum towards recapture in our place as the world leader in Communication Technologies and look forward to the testimony of our witnesses and thank you for being here today. Thank you senator peters. If you would all stand and raise right hand. Do you swear the testimony a give bodies this committee will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god . I do. Our first witness is mr. Christopher krebs,. Mister krebs worked within dhs as the assistant secretary for the protection where he helped establish a number of national and international risks programs. Prior to joining dhs, krebs was part of the policy which at a network on many issues. Mr. Krebs. Good morning chairman johnson and members of the committee. Thank you for holding todays hearing and providing an opportunity to be the first government witness to congratulate the World Champion Washington Nationals and on behalf applause thank you. And also asked to lock up stephen strasbourg to a long term contract. Its regarding the Cyber Infrastructure and securely supply chain and the Communications Technology and the next Global Communications network. This is a timely hearing and not because its halloween and this is often touted as a scary topic behind every line of code but because today is the last day of the National Security month when Critical Infrastructure security my. Written testimony details the information to Communication Technology i would like to focus my remarks on the efforts to secure a 5g network. Weve been hard at work and 5g security for years now. The roles and the executive Branch Agency have a few been represented today. Our administration and strategy has come together over the guidance of the counsel the National Security. There is no department of 5g the security nor should there be i could say with confidence that the United States government is collaborating effectively across the agencies and regardless with partners. Tight coordination mechanisms to have these results that we all desire. Michael straightforward we. Seek to foster competitive ecosystems with the 5g vendors and approach to 5g. This will unlock American Innovation and opportunities to can provide a sound base for 5g technology and our approach as four primary issues to tuck and allow my colleagues to touch on that. The regulatory consideration is stressing open systems with respect to the rule of law and take into account risks posed by Foreign Governments of wires. Secondly, were examining the Technology Requirement with the changes that are anticipated with the networking and resulting impacts on the services and features like autonomy is vehicles and smart cities etc and our work in the economic space focuses on the growth of new technology with the emphasis on here in the u. S. And courage in global and financial subsidies that are open fair and commercial reasonable transparency. Finally, we seek to promote the systems that developed a better understanding of the networks which are at risk accordingly and since its focused here, theyre seeking to support this approach and our approach is consistent with the broader supply chain encompassing technical, legal and relationship aspects of product, company and the regime from where the product originates. Specifically this intends to address 5g concerns and three primary avenues. All of which our core agency complications. Technical evaluations and analysis, engagement and cyber practices. We recognize that the 5g new transforming technology sinks well to the way this occurs all its equities. Id like to enforce this is not solely a u. S. Government issue. Our partners in the industry are critical in this security to design in deployment and accompanied by transparency necessary to perform appropriate Risk Management as the consumers alike. Efforts like the council to secure the consensus based by the iot sea capabilities and both examples of the industry given of the efforts to help achieve that Global Competitive ecosystem with vendors and components and at the director of cessna. Which analyze is across 16 Critical Infrastructures and the political functions my commit to you all is to be leading these activities from mutual benefits. More work needs to be done and thats clear but i believe we have these structures to get the job done and that is the goal and its up to a wide range of stakeholders and once again thank you for the opportunity to appear today i look forward to questions. Thank you mister krebs. Even though the nationals did not the brewers out of the playoffs it was a really fun game to watch. Our next witnesses diane ronaldo. The department of commerce and when although was with the House Committee where she was the lead Committee Staffer with the landmarks security infiltration and miss ronaldo produced the oversight budget monitoring from the agency. Miss run all the. Chairman johnson and Ranking Member peters, members the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the supply chain, Global Competitiveness and 5g. They are responsible for advancing the white house on telecommunications and consultation with other commerce, barrels and executive agencies and that they advocate for domestic and International Diplomacy is on the internet and the keys at home and abroad. The role is to foster the National Security economic transparency and delivery of the Critical Services through the telecommunications. Were involved in a host of policy issues that affect the security of critical elements and our nations telecommunications infrastructure. In the race to 5g is when he was urging areas or focus for the department and the administration. We are pursuing policies that enable government industry to Work Together to deliver on promises and secure 5g networks. But as secretary of commerce ross has said we cannot be complacent. Although the United States leads the world and the 4g wireless technologies, other countries are trying hard to issue themselves to dominate the next generation of 5g technology services. Given the Global Nature of telecommunications industry, fight for 5g dominance will surround around key issues. The component of standards as well as the ability to win in the u. S. Markets. Anti eye is working with the state Department Homeland security any federal Communications Division on policy to secure supply chain for critical information and technologies and will secure Network Deployment and innovation and free market principles. Our increased reliance on connectivity comes with increased vulnerability cyberattacks. Secured Networks Must be a major priority. We must cooperate prevention, protection and resiliency from the start. One of the Top Priorities for the administration is securing the Communications Supply Chain which is vulnerable to foreign products and services. At the most basic level we must avoid clear risk. Technology that comes from practices should not be put into our critical systems. At ntia theyre trying to help make better decisions and secure risks and incidents. Ntia its helping to address these challenges at the secretary and the president s executive order on information and Communications Technology and Services Supply chain. Ntia as lead three and successful multi staple prophesys with other security and other challenges around Software Vulnerability and insecure devices. Ntia its also involved in an ongoing effort to have the effects and in our competitive world the United States does not have the luxury of pursuing some of our National Priorities of depend and we must pursue and achieve all of them and we will continue to build on the excellent model that they have developed with federal and private sector members and thank you for having me and as chris said go nuts. Thank you mister another and our messed witness is the Deputy Assistant first cyber and International Communications and the policy at the state department. He leads the International Cybersecurity and the Privacy Policy and earlier in his career, he was the general counsel and deputy chief of staff for u. S. Committee and criminal affairs and welcome back. Thank you mister chairman and Ranking Member peters and its a privilege to testify before the committee as a staffer a decade ago and that the world becomes more interconnected the, Security Information Technology including the fifth generation of Wireless Technology is becoming increasingly important for our National Security and our Economic Prosperity as well as the protection of the individual workings around the world and state department under secretary pompeos leadership is in charge of the United States and a National Engagement campaign against our allies and partners and the importance of the measures of securing of the 5g network and as you have noted the networks will be transformed at will have a fast array of services and the Critical Infrastructure by the institution. While we rely on 5g networks and the massive amounts of data that they will provide. The states couldnt be higher for these numbers. This country around the world in their Communication Systems are urging them to adopt a risk based Security Framework and ive been joined by colleagues from the agency and probably hundreds of bilateral and multilateral the last two years now and i have done many thats focused on 5g and the Labor Day Weekend and the chairman was visiting three countries between saudi arabia as well as going to germany so we have a full court press to educate our partners about the Security Risks and ways we can achieve a successful future with 5g. An important element of the 5g document theres a careful evaluation of hardware and software vendors. The evaluation criteria should include the extent to which vendors are subject to control by Foreign Government with no meaningful checks and balances of power as you up cooperation of those vendors less intelligence and security agencies. While they should be applied to members in all countries. Our equipment benders with the republic of china. Our assessment is that the prc to act against the countries around the world and will be in 5g networks the complicateds will be a privileged position in this critical network. They cant be required by chinas National Intelligence law to cooperate with chinese intelligence and to keep that cooperation secret. There is no impact or beneficiary or rule of law to prevent to take those actions. This will provide chinese the party to disrupt critical it restructure and sensitive transmission in this technology as well as the information of its citizens. Not only will they not have these capabilities because they already demonstrated exploited. Chinese technology from the authoritarian regimes and the Chinese Government will have the favor expression will ride to the mass of surveillance, censorship and targeted restrictions on Internet Access. We have exported facial Recognition Technology at the province to bore that a dozen countries at the pr sea has a long way to benefit and we should not allow 5g 5g to stop deal intellectual property and there are engagements with many other countries and the flight Security Risk with the 5g networks alongside the United States. For example, australia and japan and taiwan have taken very specific actions in 5g networks undress at the pliers. And maybe, Czech Republic voted for more than 140 representatives into countries around the world as the European Union and nato to be consensus of the counter approach to 5g security. Theyre known as the proposals and a set of recommendations to secure and resilient 5g Network Based on free and fair competition, transparency in the rule of law. Weve been working to advance the principles by encouraging the forces in them. Weve signed a number of understanding for research and development and the application of 5g Technology Including romania and poland and quiz stony. Will have the other countries in the same regard. On october 9th to be exact, the European Commission released their own assessment of 5g at or very encouraged that clearly identify the 5g networks of them being subject but third old countries and especially countries without legislative democratic checks and balances in place. The risk is a sight of progress and demonstrates our allies and partners are recognizing the risk but its far from over. The European Commission will use that assessment to agree upon a security measure by the end of the year. Its vital this toolbox access or identified their assessment including four untrusting suppliers. The state that implement those security measures in our own binding National Measures just as we are doing in United States. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. Thank you Mister Strayer our next guest is jessica rosenworcel. Shes part of the Communications Division and fosters Economic Growth and accessibility and develop policies to breach the hospitals and across the country. Pressure joining us, she is a council for the committee in times of transportation. Good morning. Chairman johnson, Ranking Member peters and members of the committee, for the last decade the, United States has led the world and Wireless Technology and performance and we have reap the benefits. The smartphone revolution began here on our shores and help secure our global dominance in the technology sector. So now let me be blunt. That authority is being challenged. Extending this leadership from a next generation of Wireless Technology known as 5g is going to be difficult. Its worth the effort because these networks are going to kickstart the digital transformation. However, earlier this year many Advisory Board and a technologist serving the state of networks and the server warning and found that the country that found 5g will set the standard for the rest of the world and that country is going to be likely the United States. This is a clarion call. They see very clearly the success the United States hat in the last generation of Wireless Technology. They secured a leadership position and we see it in deployment and germany and japan are making Great Strides with 5g efforts. We see activity in standards like 3g and i. T. You are 5g specifications that are out right now and Chinese Companies up 36 of all five key standards in special patents. Here in the u. S. , are companies are just 14 . In fact, there are no longer any United States manufacturers with key 5g commitment we are facing well resourced challenges in every direction and we do not have a comprehensive National Plan to meet this challenge. We need one. Here are four ideas they should be included. First, if you want to lead in 5g, we have to secure the 5g supply chain. To this and, at the fcc we have a rulemaking to enters into sure our fund will provide billions annually to help support broadband in roll america. They will not be used to purchase and secure network employment. This rulemaking has inexplicably stalled at the agency for the last year and a half. But now, perhaps well see after this hearing will publicize this in three short weeks. Second, we need an approach to supply Chain Security and recognize that despite our best efforts, secure network the United States will only get a so far. We need to start researching how we can build networks that can withstand connection to equipment vulnerabilities around the world. One way to do this. Is to invest in virtual icing real Access Networks was known as open rand. If we can unlock the ram and diversify this part of the network and will push for equipment of the United States as its strongest and semi conductors. Third, we need smarter spectrum technology. The fcc has focused its early efforts to support 5g wireless by ringing i brand spectrum to the market. It is a mistake. The rest of the world is not happy singular focus and the airwaves and they do not travel far that means commercializing the urban locations and it is not good for Rural America and could meet with 5g in the nation divide. The fcc needs to change course and make a priority in the spectrum to better suit the extent promise of 5g service to everyone everywhere. Fourth and finally, with 5g, were moving the world with billions of connected devices around this internet of things. We need to address our policies now to plan for the future. Here is what that could look like. Every device that has radio frequency at some point passes through the fcc. If you want proof, just pull out your smartphone and look at the back of your computer television. Youll see an Identification Number from the fcc. Its a stamp of approval. I mean that ice complies with fcc interference rules before it is marketed or imported into the United States. The fcc needs to revisit this process and use it to explore how we can encourage Device Manufacturers to build security into all the products. To do this, we could build a National Institute of standards and technology that security recommendations for the internet and things. The most important thing to do is to get started right now. German johnson, Ranking Member peters and members and committee, thank you for having me today i before to answering any questions might have. Thank you miss rosenworcel, i in the appreciate their time at although it might questioning. Thank you mister chairman. On monday, the fcc presented to address the supply chain risk on our networks. This includes a proposal nose as rip and replace. It requires carriers to have support from the universal Service Lines unquote men in services deemed to be of National Security risk and networks with Financial Assistance to those companies do that. Two commissioner rosenworcel, is there a comprehensive database or network that lawmakers will have that agreement will be deployed . Thank you senator peter so the question. There is not right now, its my hope that with this proceeding we will develop one. We know we need to, much of this military base in this country is insecure and need to move it out. Who should be developing that process . I think we need to start with the proposed law making and see where this equipment lies and at what point and its useful Network Life Cycle its that. We need to understand where it is before we decide what dollars we make available to help replace it. Mister krebs and then id like the rest of the panel to comment. If you use this replace approached, should it be without exception . Can you clarify just within the world deployment or do you mean huawei . Globally i city across the United States environment. I would hesitate to go that for and we need to see what it truly is and focus our efforts there with the federal resources leaning to making way here. Focusing on where the risk lies in terms of our efforts there. Well just go down the panel if we could please. Ill echo that and we work with dhs and their task force. These are the types of conversations weve had an understanding that theres only a certain amount of money and we want to make sure theyre being smart with that. Its important to recognize senator that there are 4g network that have this secure equipment. We will move the 5g dramatically and increasing the surface area so that more parts will become critical as its moving out to the edge. I think the vast new array of technology is not considered critical at will become so in the 5g network. I agree with my colleagues but the primary focus right now should be the 4. 5 Million Dollars a year that Service Funds contributes to rural carriers across this country to deploy broadband. Thats a question. How should the cost impact of rolling this out factor into the risk based decision that ive heard everyone say . How would you do that . We need to start with this rulemaking and make some assessments and work with this committee to identify what our priority should be. But i think that we can all agree that the goal is to take this out of our networks, to make sure it is no longer but as we head to 5g. Anybody else. Yes mr. Krebs. This is the right course of the conversation. What are the economic realities of flash cut and of pulling this out today with 4g as you mentioned what commissioner rosenworcel said and how do we age the stuff out that will happen to the next 18 to 24 months and contain or manage the risk that will go naturally through the process. Just yesterday in denver colorado, the u. S. Chambers of Congress Posted a Engagement Initiative that brought regional role providers together with representatives from everyone you see up here. In fact, some of the rooms over there and one of the outputs that came out of that was on the provider side to help develop what it looks like from flash cut and what the cost might be. I think were on the same track with the inaudible process is a good way to elicit information. He raise important point. With the gap of huawei and how the Administration Deal with the cost associated with that . And the idea . I think thats the right conversation to have on what the appropriate cost share cost burden with the government or private sector in those cases and statements and local authorities. Who is ultimately responsible. Were not talking about pulling up the stuff tomorrow. There is a plan likely that would allow for transition over the next year and a half or two years. Commissioner . I agree with that. The removal right now par between 700 million to one billion dollars. But they werent good fact we have is for the template of this in 2012 as the fcc to help broadcasters and the 600 megahertz span for and for us to do just that way to borrow the template used for that in the focusing on equipment and the certification of where everything is and as worked well. I think he could serve as well in this environment to. If the ftc proposal if the American Companies will still have to trans bit the networks abroad. With the commissioner in the opening comments as well as the zte equipment. The fccs most recent Protection Networks are all of these abroad . Or do you share some concerns . The primary concern abroad would be interconnected if there is an ability to disrupt the goal and the Services Abroad that will impact and the United States. You will have a follow an impact and if theyre compromised. Can you expand on that. They have done incredible work for removing its equipment from other nations and are not investing in her 5g thats. Why they mentioned the Access Network and will try to think about technology that will allow the world where we need those networks. Thank you. On the ripon. Replace youre quoting figures that i heard and i would just suggest that you take the study and the ultimate vendors where that equipment existed and also in europe which would be more expensive and the 702 billion dollars in the National Security threat which is a pretty imaginable cost analysts suggest that they go with the vendors and the next one is senator hassan thank you mister chair and thank you to Ranking Member peters and thank you to our witnesses for taking time to testify and help educate us all on this topic. As a red sox fan congratulations to the gnats and that we waited 86 years and we feel youre joy this morning so i wanted to start with the ambassador because on this topic of the diplomatic efforts i, recently traveled to india and during this meeting india is very concerned about privacy and about some of the mornings that we have been trying to be part about huawei. The country is seriously considering using huaweis infrastructure in the 5g rolled out. They talked about doing a pilot and i said how long with the pilot last . He said a year that, a long time. Moreover, many of our european allies are concerned with transparency and data privacy and are still considering incorporating huawei as the 5g in the structure even though alternatives are available from you based companies. Can you tell us what else we should be doing as a followup to the commissioners points . What else should we be doing to convince allies or other nations to move away from huawei and cte and what other forces to nieces sustained . Thats a very insightful question. People are doing similar dial up a few weeks ago and its the cheap prices for some of the huawei a. C. T. Equipment which has allowed them to go to the Legacy Networks and the operators argue that its going to be cost prohibitive for them to use a more secure venue. The Analysis Shows that myth busting a lot of those that talk about members that are throwing about their. They are behind technology if the leaders like samsung and one of the largest operators are using samsung at this point and we need the United States with those providers. We cant fall behind. Theres also there shouldnt be a concern about cost. They networks are pre2016 which has to be replaced, so youre only looking at the last couple of years and years ways theres other concerns that these countries will have a cold first measure against them to not allow their chambers at may. Lets just follow up for a minute. I understand all of those arguments that we have been making two countries like india along with you. It doesnt seem that our partners are listening. What else should we be doing or what resources do we need . On that front, i think were getting the understanding that almost every country so said they will prohibit the vendors in the core of the network. Thats why theyre not on the edge and the data that theyre going to give up. As far as Additional Resources we think about how this program will help connectivity for the next trusted connectivity and developing countries. Weve already had that from resources to help develop trusted networks. It would be helpful as they had allegations to this around the world to talk about these elements. This isnt just a discussion is not just a telecoms discussion, its really about the fundamental values and about geopolitical threats. Because its inherently impossible to test your way and to security when it comes to telecoms technology. Thats because you could always insert a back door and the tens of lines of code. If u. S. Members are willing to go out there and talk to the colleagues around the world and i think that would help us a tremendous amount to make sure that they are invest in the political process that the political process not just a bureaucratic process. Fill up very quickly if you can. 5g is still taking place. Technical standards that guide how 5g will ultimately work are being actively developed in International Standards setting forms and youve already referenced of that. It is vital that the United States drives this conversation than that china is not allowed to dominate the future of 5g to the detriment of the United States and our allies. So from each of you how are your organizations coordinating engagements in the International Standard parties in order to counteract chinese influence . Because china being aggressive with. This all start with mr. Growth. Often Operational Agency to agency to ensure we deployed to the ubc and other standard parties that we have consistent direction working with our Industry Partners. Mr. Miss what we are there on the floor trying to. People in the International Conferences as Edwards White spectrum policies insuring egypt. Weve got a delegation of 120 people from. Chairman pies there. We have an ambassador from the state Department Day leading. Its so were leaving this international bodies. I think that this week about standard essential patterns. You can cuff that a lot of ways. Certainly the chinese propaganda has been twisted theyre leaning. A report out there saying that intel like welcome have the most valuable of their essential patterns. So its a competitive space and we need to be vigilant. So were in a very good space or placed for the. Future go ahead. I agree with you there. We do need to assess the fall this interagency coordination is really working, and the best way to do it is after the world radio conference which is taking place right now in egypt, to come back and assess what our experience has been with the hundred and 93 nations and how successful weve been a briefing yard spectrum policies. Thank you. I have a couple of other questions. Mr. Krebs, briefly, i want you to come to New Hampshire and work with some of my local and county folks on the issue of red somewhere because i think we need to have increasingly better partnerships on that so can you come into that. Absolutely thats a huge area forecast for us now but as we think about elections or whatever registration databases its a big interest. Ross thank. You im running out of time but im going to ask if i come back and were still having the hearing, i want to follow up with the commissioner worse rosenworcel on the issue of mid band spectrum and how important thats going to be on in terms of the rural urban traditional to fight. I want to follow up with you on that. Thanks. I think the answer is important senator romney. Secular chairman and to everyone working in this vital. Area its sad that were having to hold hearings. It is extraordinary that china has been able to take such a substantial lead in an area that not only important for us economically but vital to National Security. And my prediction is that well be repeating this picture again and again in various other areas that are important economically and with regards to our National Security. This is the first example of whats going to happen again and again. And i guess id like to address my question to all of you or whoever would like to respond to it, as to how it is that if you will a free market the economies, we are unsuccessful in establishing our own lead with regards to 5g. How is it that fight Chinese Companies are able to get so far ahead of us on the track that we are trying to shake simon catch up to them . I would note that china has a very Clear Strategy as to where they want to be in 5g but also economically, geopolitically, militarily, and we as a nation dont have a strategy. We respond in an ad hoc basis when we see them ahead on the track we say we have to do something about that. But always chasing your competitor is not a successful strategy. And not only do we not have a strategy, to deal economically with a player that does not play with by the rules, we dont even have a process underway or focus under way nationally to describe how we are going to compete with a nation that continues to break the rules. How we and the west will do so. I only think this can be done on a collaborative basis with ourselves another free nations. And so we keep ambassador strayer from having to run around from country to country banking people please dont do whats in your economic best interest and hold on because weve got something there coming along, this doesnt make sense as a strategy for nation. Some going back to my question how is it we got so far behind on 5g with such extraordinary companies in many cases not in the u. S. , companies in south korea, companies in the eu, that participate in this area, how did china get such a big league . Why did we let them get so far ahead . If i may start senator, i would say that at the front did we do have roughly a general strategic guidance from a National Cyber strategy. How do we are taking on china and across the range of areas, especially holding them accountable for their inability or reluctance to implement the rules based International Order they agreed to when we like to see to the wto. I think its also important in 5g to recognize that cisco, intel, qualcomm our World Leaders in the technology but what we dont produces the hardware hardware that for the greater access. Not what we are moving to the area where were really strong which is in software with more generic hardware. So thats how we have a general mission. We are talking about to our partners and allies about emerging technology for the future to set the rules of the role but the Chinese Companies are not competing in any kind of capitalist system with free and fair market. Theyre being subsidized substantial. As you were talking about targeted are antito work with our allies to see how each of us could lead to the best of our strikes. I think as ambassador strayer mentioned, we are kind of in a blip. The piece that the chinese or the most is the radar Access Network. I think that given some of the comments in particular off commissioner rosenworcel mentioned, focusing on which realization and open access to radio networks, i think if we hold this hearing in a year to 18 months to 24 months, completely different option that conversation about the trusted options available in the marketplace. What do we got to do is make sure we think up the timelines on an international basis. I encourage everyone if you havent already to go look at the huawei over sides report the uk should sit here. Its a pretty damning documents as an evaluation of security quality of why we. Products just from a country that spin accessing technically from a cybersecurity perspective, the quality of what we probably out for ten. You forced to say not much improvement over that tenyear period. Moreover, the Transformation Plan that huawei has issued indicated that by their own admission, huaweis own public. Say this transformation to bring huawei equipment to a commercially reasonable cybersecurity posture will take three to five years. This is sufficient evidence for us, rob goes throughout those around the world and talks about to make a bad decision now and you will be paying it for the next ten. Yes this is evidence to say hold on, lets work and lets incentivize this alternative trusted vendor base to emerge, to flourish, and i think this is the opportunity in front of. Weve got to put a lot of more effort in, whether you have your rfp which theyve recently issued or will be issuing on experimentation to encourage these companies to come forward. There is a great opportunity in front of us. My hope is in a year from now or more than that to a different conversation. Just to others comments at the department of commerce we really like to see the much of this question if not them then who . And we do see the American Companies, the software offenders that are going to fill that void with software to find networks, you also often hear that the chinese said and swarms of people to the start just body and they both in block where as we go, work with our partners, work with the industry, but thats where youve got to get the best products. So i think as we discussed, what is the answer to watch the success. How do we win the race to 5g . Its not being more like them, its doubled down down on us. So thats what we are focusing on and collaborating together on. Thank you. Well senator, i think you are right. And i think the evidence is around for all of us to see in todays wall street journal mentions that china will have 130,000 suicide for 5g at the end of the year. South korea will have over sometimes the United States will have 10,000 that is not a good place to sit. If i did use one thing that i could change right now, we need a spectrum strategy to make sure 5g services to everyone all across the country. We have doubled down in the United States on auctioning high bed spectrum which if goes from one end of the room to the other. We will never make that an economic rate with 5g everywhere if we are willing to use our power from devices and innovation. Muslim real quick as long as were on the topic doesnt make sense for the ftc to go all the stuff that continue to make sense . That is outside of my jurisdiction. I will acknowledge thats just one letter, right . I will acknowledge that the United States has really powerful operators with the cubs the software so he could doctors at we to figure out how we need to use that will be forced our way into the future. Anyone else want to comment on that . Its left me scratching my head. Senator lankford. Its exceptionally important and a lot of folks that will catch me in the access to data like facebook or google or different internet providers that microsoft will have and have access to a lot of data and no one has more access than yourself and does. It has all of those plus a whole lot more and it is remarkable how little focus there has been on the security around everything that goes to yourself phone. For folks in rural oklahoma, they would tell you that Irrigation Systems are connected to their cellphones. Control systems were valves are connected to cellphones. Whether its agriculture, and ill go through the cell so thank you for your focus on the 5g and security as we cannot get this wrong. Every bit of our data and every bit of our manufacturing in our systems and our inventions all go through the system. I appreciate you doing this. Let me go back to the spectrum conversation. Why isnt there a conversation on limited right now . There is a conversation senator on the limited ban spectrum right now. My concern is that the fcc during this administration has chosen to put all of its early efforts on high band. We have the 24 get the herds back in the, 28 years band. We will have the 37 megahertz band by the end of the year and the 47 gigabytes ban. Why not that one . You are not the same question that we should prioritize the five years ban and had done it two years ago. These are the airwaves are going to help us reach roll america and we are making a mistake to. The rest of the world is not auctioning i ban spectrum and there are 16 midnight and spectrums where the bulk of the economy is going for wireless 5g and the United States is behind. Let me switch topics on that and will go to the hardware side with the system that you have all mentioned one of the issues we have is the software that is currently very innovative and manufacturing software. We have just outsourced the hardware to china and to other places but just dont have the locations as robert cereal and certainly not a creativity to have that in the United States so what is the gap on the manufacturer side . On the manufacturing side i believe ive heard that 40 of the makeup of the network is actually American Manufacturing companies and its the real Access Networks of the United States that does not have a hard manufacturer. Thats what im talking about. We talk about the Software Networks and how we can go around a problem and thats what we inject to create the networks of the future so thats what we are focusing on and there has been testing as we speak thats a reality as soon as 18 months. You think the reaction is not as needed . Correct. I want to point out the reason that the lab speak came loose and by the French Company that got bought out and theyre still Research Going on and at the recourse level. I erickson in florida and samsung fabrication of chips and often texas and there is going to be manufacturing solution along the lines of the administrators point but we do see manufacturing here and competition coming from china thats massively subsidized. Thats where the market is feeling. This is something you track all the time on the supply chain issues. As you know, extremely well we had one bad link that is the spot to infiltrate and when you start to look at supply. Chain issues where do you see the gap or the engagement and the United States congress that has to be involved in or would you do less of to have the market grow . I think supply chain is an area of focus with my agency on cybersecurity and its managing that risk and putting your attention or the gaps are. We had this last year when we established the Communication Technology in the task force and the agencies here represent on that tax force in 20 Tech Companies and four different work strings. The information sharing will look like with the risks and what is a threat profile that we need to be concerned about a qualified bidders list and lastly how do we incentivize the purchasing of the original manufacturers to eliminate the counterfeit problem. This is an incredibly important area of work because it gives everyone whether youre supersophisticated or highly leveraged and the supply chain or down in the subcontractor and it gives them a compound framework to which they will assess. When we talk about information, we talk about sharing threats and companies and there are examples of the inaudible as a reporting of the facts to come across and you have to report it. There is no similar standard for high risk areas of infrastructure. Is that in the law . I think at this point is probably both. But i focus on how do you accompany the terms of law and and trusted vendor. They have significant civil litigation risk for publicly outing the company. How do we give them the appropriate information sharing that can make a report into whether its government or other Industry Partners with anti trust issues. This scenario which we think needs more attention. Will bring up two quick things on this one. As the supply chain conversation with, robert aerials that has been a carrier of forces which has been complacent to come from china and to say that theyre manufacturing among the Environmental Issues so are not going to do the cleaner and better with the rest of the world and you should and thats what we need to identify. Miss rosenworcel one, of the areas is not related but every time i see anyone from the sec i bring up one issue with them and that is the cell phone jamming im not going to talk about it but i want to feel to bring it up to say it is allotted in federal prisons and that is an area that we need to address and with the fccs engagement and working through standards to when that jamming devices done and they want to test against the standard that fcc is looking to establish that and major profit contraband cellphones and we need the fcc to engage in this area. I know its a surprise area but i dont want you to respond to it but i think we need that. Thank you. Senator carper. I remember senator lankford me down where senator johnson. We were meeting with the president of guatemala and i said to him, visiting some of the president , i said i know you have this technology mister president , your Prison Guards are allowing cellphones to be used by criminals in the prisons to conduct a criminal business. He said really. I said yeah. I said theres technology. You can jump. He said really . I said yeah. And i said you know, you have it in your prisons. He said really . I said yeah. I got sick and you dont use it. And she said . Really i said yeah. I just said you know who is responsible for making sure that this stuff is there and is used . Its your interior ministry. And shes not making sure thats been done. And he said really. Undaunted yes. Six months later there were both in prison. And i hope theyre using their cellphones badly. I think this important point and not just for the u. S. I rosenworcel will miss, another name because youve already britain rosenworcel . I have. You go through for ideas to secure yours leadership in 5g. Im glad to ask your colleagues to respond to them when you say whether theyre making sense or not. First, security supply chain. Second, we need to think beyond supply chain and look to virtually station off radio Access Networks. Third, we have to be smarter about the spectrum that we auction and auction more mid band spectrum. And forth, we have to come up with policies to secure the billions of devices in the internet of things. Mister secretary, nice to see. Do i call you Mister Mister secretary . Everyone has titles in this town but ill be. If i can respond to just briefly. My Favorite Baseball Team is to Detroit Tigers but we have the worst in the team about three of the best pictures. So the red sox. Got the jury and i both are tigers fans. We are trying to talk to short circuit sir and retreated off sanchez and someday will be critical thank you for those temperatures. There are team. Yes we will run our mission deposit. If i may i need to work on the side chain i dont know if we mentioned it yet today by signed an executive order on may 15th this year to supply. He declared a National Emergency to protect our domestic Communications Technology. And that will soon be followed by binding regulations later this year. We, i think 100 percent agree with the idea that virtually section of the functions of an Access Network will be very important to allow the breakup of the proprietary locking in many of the radio access providers have today. And that will also reduce costs on Capital Expenditure as well as operational costs for providers. So it can be competitive with regard to some of the court providers such as those in china if we move toward more regionalization. On the mid band point. I think its worth mentioning first of all that getting to rural areas under. This team about sprint merger they are required to cover 90 of the u. S. Population and in six years to cover 99 of the u. S. Population. Not the fcc understands is proceeding on the 3. 5 gigabytes and ban spectrum next summer. They have to prioritize some of the millimeter brand. But we shouldnt denigrate the importance of millimeter wave which is going to be so important to manufacturing and either use cases that requires the most maximal amount of group that is only available three millimeter wave. Thats the beauty of that technology that it doesnt go as far but it has the greatest amount of data translation available. But of course chairman pie has said by the end of this fall we are going to have a plan to move forward on the seabirds which is also regret. 2. 5 gigabytes will follow probably in the next year after that. So we certainly need to keep moving forward with this but i think we have sufficient plans to ensure that we have made venezuela in the playoff globe and, made bad, and hydrant spectrum that. We thank you. Mr. I want to ask you if the saudis flight favor with you. Yes. Thank you so ntia we are the federal regulator for. We represent the administrator action and if he. This year when station believes that you need to low, made and how bad to be most effective with the 5g deployment. The mobile now act passed india i ate a look at tree dots two or three to five and that is currently under review. We have a report due to Congress Next year. As deputies sentence and secretary strayer mentioned, there is an auction next june on cbs which is great brandon one this december on high back. So we are hitting those important notes. Also mentioned supply chain and giving the secretary of commerce the emergency authorities to make determination against transactions that could be concerned with on trusted vendors in our networks so we are currently putting together with the regulations on that as well. And we are all in agreement that software to find networks is going to be a gamechanger. For all right thanks. Just, do you agree with anything that you said miss rosenworcel . So places here tonight security as well as secured the internet of things. All right thank. All of us could tell you stories about how long some of our students and schools, businesses struggling in rural parts of our state. And we could all tell you stories. For lack of access to the internet. I would ask you, miss rosenworcel if you will, having said that, you talked about this already but what is situation doing to ensure that the internet is accessible to walk communities . And that 5g complement is not out of the Technological Advancement that lethal from just for the . Mark thank you senator. So much an important question. Weve got a digital diet divide in this country. Weve got 12 million kids you cant even do their homework because they dont have Internet Access in every state. They need to be doing their homework. We want them to be able to access the internet and do their school work and its just a window into this challenge we have. Weve got to fix it. I think we want to start with better mapping. I know that senator peters has a bill just on this subject right now. Fcc naps will highly overstate where broadband is and is not in this country. Go to every roll community, theyll tell you they dont have service. And yet if you look at the fcc map, we found was subscriber in the census pocket we decided that its available throughout. Thats wrong. We are not going to know where to divide are scarce federal resources if we dont first get our maps right. Essentially got what are the support that Government Agencies can do to support it access . I think that by refocusing now one man spectrum, we can make a meaningful difference in deployment of 5g. It propagate first and requires fewer towers. Its more economic to law in Rural Communities and if we want to roll america to see 5g, i think we have to focus on on that sooner throughout the. Later all rights act. Mister chairman. Alberta einsteins wife. He was married to a beautiful brilliant woman and she was asked if he understood his fear of. Relatives she said i understand the words but not the sentencing. And i just want to say that hearing like this itself ought to be, not just understanding the world support some of the tentative so thank you. One senator portman. Mister chairman, thank you for having this here. I apologize, i had another before. This is all about our competitiveness of the country. We have all the ingredients for a major problem here. One is the importance of 5g. The other is in china that has become almost a techno nationalist country where the u. S. State power and often in disregard for the International Trade rules. This includes subsidies, but it also includes tech transfer and often its driving market Oriented Companies out of business and at the same time, we have all of us production here of 5g hardware. And you talked about the supply chain this afternoon or this morning, and i think thats part of the issue here. So in terms of being a drive four for 21st century competitiveness, 5g just seems to me is worse and by the way we started and Artificial Intelligence caucus here in congress. Were trying to avoid getting a decade behind an Artificial Intelligence as an instance we have been 5g. So this is hearing its really timely and important. Commissioner, i was listening to some of your responses and i totally agree with you on the map. It could certainly because you navarro we have some areas where the fcc map are said to have broadband capability and they do not. Certainly not for the School Children but also not for a lot of Small Businesses there who are eager to be able to expand into our rural areas. But are being told its going to be a long time and expense to get fast internet so they tend to go to the urban areas therefore columbus is expanding substantially but not southeast i. On the issue of Chinese Technology being at the center off the five to future, i think we cant concede that. We need to figure out how to deal with that. There are some non chinese 5g hardware providers, im told, but there is no provider of hardware in the United States. Is that correct . Thats correct. What policies should we adopt to promote the reassuring off the production and do you believe the United States can rely on some of these non chinese suppliers and alternative . Thank you for the question. First, im confident that were going to figure a way that to make sure that the United States succeeds. But here is some important data. Points at the turn of the millennium there were 13 big Network Equipment providers around the world. By the time the revolution started there were seven. Now weve got three or four. And i think we have to be honest about the fact that we are allowing consolidation to take place im argo largest high wireless providers and by doing that we are reducing the number of providers that equipment manufacturers consult. It gets harder and harder to get into the business under those circumstances. Thats a problem. I think our way out is to instead focus on where we are best, which involve software. And so what we need to do now, which as youve heard from some of my quality leagues and its in my testimony, we have to look at the radar Access Network and identify how we can introduced which organization there. That would mean using off the shelf shot hardware but its intelligence would come from u. S. Sources and software. And i think thats where we need to focus our energies and id like to see the ftc develop some tests and policies to encourage that to happen. Can that be done with the current consolidation or are you seeing these supply chains are necessarily limited because of the fewer fires buyers, customers, . I think weve i think weve helped ourselves with the current state of consolidation. Its hard to get into a marketplace where there are very small number of potential purchasers. But under these circumstances i think what we have to do now we go to what we do best, and that software. Okay. Let me touch quickly on standards. This is a topic that may have come up today, probably. Not it seems a little esoteric but. I have raised this issue at the belt he wrote hearings out the Foreign Relations committee as well. I think it relates directly to what was really happening out there on the international front. China has increased their membership in these International Standards setting body substantially. Had to take it very seriously. We dont. It doesnt mean that china is going to hijack all these International Standard setting bodies, but it does mean that our interests are not going to be well represented unless we begin to put more emphasis on it. So i dont know, maybe secretary strayer, since you used to work for this committee on the Foreign Relations committee, will focus on this one. In general what you believe the government can do to simplify our participation International Standard setting bodies and specifically do you mean that by making it easier to write visas for foreign individuals to come to this country, that we could have more of these standards conferences in the United States . Because you know we dont typically have them here anymore. And can we incentivize more of these conference is happening here and get more u. S. Involvement. Thanks for that probably two part question i dont want to break up the standards making bodies between those dominated by governments that are multilateral Like International telecommunication union, the big 5g conference, to harmonize wide spectrum policies, in charlottesville egypt, and we have more than 120 u. S. Government officials at private sector delegates represented representing us. There were taking a pretty aggressive posture in all of these standards making bodies. I think we can by calling certain talk a little bit about what they do in the Congress Department and how they are involved internationally and the standards we can buddies but we are virtually about whats going on there. We have noticed that the chinese have come in in Larger Forces there. We think theres been a pretty successful distribution of patents coming to u. S. Companies and to western companies generally. We work hardly with our partners on what comes out to this conference. Its also important war how we can think about what how we can encourage the private sector to participate fully instructed spot. These Standards Companies pretending to standard parties because the sea value in. That some Companies Just went to the market with the latest technology. Its others going to be a reason that there just been the standard spotty itself because that takes a lot of resources from their own internal research and Development Efforts to have these banners which can take years and we think about policies with that. How about the conferences . My question was in part about these visas and the fact they were having conferences here in this country but is the disadvantage . Were looking at hosting a broadband conference next year. So i think one of the issues is that we have a National Security review coming to our conferences. The world wants to meet our conferences including the substantial concerns about the officials in their government. Is that part of the conference in the United States . I know we had a conference 20 years ago when. But that just one narrow sliver. We host all kinds of meetings all the time here with the smaller delegation level in washington and front meetings. Do we have somebody conferences here . Yes. But im not sure that its impeded. It is impeded by those visa issues. We can look at them. Were told that it is and the private sector our participation with address and thank you mister chairman. Thank you senator portman i want to go back to mid ban and bureacratic roadblocks and are we just moving to slow on it . Thank you senator. I think we are moving to slow and theres countries that brought the specter to the public but they dont yet have. I think the Administration Made the easy choice which was to focus on unoccupied ipad airwaves and put them to markets and i think its a strategic mistake. The reason im asking at the Community Hearing is assessing a block at the 24 get a hertz would raise the issue and its long longer there which is good. Are there other roadblocks them that are not testified and encourage you to let me know them to get rid of those . You are not making more and anyone of us is using our device all the time and then we are demanding and the challenge comes in the incumbents that the ntia overseas to relocate so that they will use these bands. There are equities to prevent us and its a top priority. One is our process is flawed. The commercial actors go to start knocking on the doors of federal actors that have access and we go back and forth and back and forth. It takes years. We should built a structural incentive into the budgets and be proficient with the airways that we have so that when we relinquish them we see again and not just relocation. Can we end on this . When you to outline some of the work that ntia has done over the years. We have additional spectrum back in august of this year, they have that to all of our spectrum and federal partners which needed to access their needs available and delivered a report that undocumented anti i. S. Has a dynamic spectrum sharing. No fence. I dont care what you did, i want to know what made you not move faster . Im trying to figure out what preventing us from moving faster since our top priority . Go ahead. I think its a major impediment that its the sprints of the global merger that will expand of the better use of our mid band spectrum. Its been approved by the federal government, but its not by the lawsuit brought by the states. That is so im a process down. If you look at mid band spectrum, a specially by mid band, three quarters of the population is reversible terms of the merger. I dont want to dwell on this, i would encourage after this to meet with staff if there are roadblocks so we can utilize to knock those things down. This is a top priority. Senator romney was made a quite a few comments i thought it was interesting in the brief. In the report by the fall year communication in 2018, we were looking at availability and licensing with the 5g which include china at its highest and the overall scoring for 5g readiness and u. S. And japan are not far behind. In 2019 report, they said, the u. S. Has made progress with china. I, i i dont want to overstate for we should be ahead but is that an accurate assessment . We should feel a little bit better here . Or is this as diluted as romney was pointing out and youre moving there so perhaps you can answer that . I will go back to the point that the panel has made with former commissioner rosenworcel that this is just a temporal anomaly. We can unlock the open radio Access Network piece and the peace in the United States intervention is going to explode. Again, its a conversation were going to think. You said, if we can unlock what do we need to do to unlock . Whats the road blocking was unlocking that . Certain things need to be put in place to provide test beds for example and what theyre doing in an experimentation with my agency and the national laps. Theres a whole bunch of testing Opportunity Development but thats just a small slice. Does that have to be funded by the government or is it a private sector . It should be funded but others again, its going to surge into the market and as a standard piece which as true inaudible in the sense that they start Work Together what you can put bits and pieces to different vendors together. If you do that, think about cloud globally and microsoft, amazon, google, all the Service Providers, we dominate the cloud market in the world. Okay . But we are talking about virtual iced networked is cloud, thats all it is. Its writing on top and we own that space. Okay . Lets make it an economic incentive to get in there for that perspective. What im asking and not in the senate break this down so we understand that congress and this committee can do. We targeted oversight letters and break down barriers or legislation that will incentivize the private sector or provide funding to do this with the government. This is i got an idea. By the way, i agree completely with your reasoning chris. I think the fcc set up some of the innovation jones during last several months in new york city and salt lake city. Where we had experimental licenses for 5g. We should see how we can use those zones and creating test beds for more activity with the radio Access Networks and should go through our rules to see if we can its in a visit to make it happen and with this committees help i know my colleagues would agree. Again, this is coming from somebody who is not a fan of the government. They do believe in the private sector. I can, wear any competition with a traumatic control economy which subsidizing and made it difficult with the bringing down the marketplace. You gotta recognize that reality. We, need to understand what we need to do in a very complex environment. Again, there is going to be a lot more work to decide after this hearing and thats the benefit of coming to this committee. You have more questions . Thank you mister chairman. Commissioner rosenworcel i appreciate your passion on the access and weve heard that today and prior to this as well. Ive seen firsthand in michigan, access to broadband is critical as clean water, electricity, we have to look at it that way to make sure everyone in this country is where no matter where they live to that. Member, a lot of areas dont have 4g now. Were talking about 5g were really far behind. I appreciate your comments as well as the mapping out i continue to work in that area. My question to you is, fcc proposal in the Communication Companies will support and receive the Service Funds and purchase Equipment Properties oppose security threats my. Question to you, why is this proposal with Service Providers when the fcc has jurisdiction . This is a good question. They found the executive order the department of congress as a complication to look at this issue more broadly so the fcc has focused on its distribution of 4. 5 billion dollars a year for all america and making sure those funds dont go towards that equipment. The executive order and the broader choices of the economy fell through congress and the rules i think will be done by this month. Anybody else cared to comment . On the 15th of this year, the president issued executive order by the secretary of commerce under authority to determine a against transactions into our ecosystem information and Communication Technology services. It kept him immediate authority and can act today if necessary, but we are currently working through laying up the process. It could be other funds that are being used besides this . There are no funds this is a procedural determination. Right now its just u. S. Funds. If this is a National Security issue there will be no services. Well, im familiar with what the fcc is doing with the universal Service Funds and the economy would fall to the department of commerce. Other proposals to prevent their own funding from purchasing huawei so they could be getting federal funds as a result of that and user private funds . That would fall to the department of commerce. Any thoughts on that area . Again, removing towards the drafting the regulations. The broth of the process
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