Transcripts For CSPAN3 Justice Department IG Michael Horowitz On Government Oversight 20240713

Justice Department Inspector Michael Horowitz American University sylvia burwell. Staff, students and viewers at home, good afternoon to you all. My name is Camille Nelson and i had the privilege of serving as a dean of the Washington College of law and its my pleasure to welcome you to this beautiful canvas for such an important conversation on government oversight and accountability and in conjunction with the launch of our new student publication. Oversight project. Org. This project is yet another example of the work of our student leaders integrating a go to source about the work of federal oversight accountability and ethics watchdogs. We could not be more proud of our students, their effort and their enthusiasm here at Washington College of law. Our Law School Community is especially grateful at the launch of this project is made possible and is elevated by leading experts who will share their insights and accountability with us today. So my warm welcome again please, join me in welcoming this event professor he faculty director of the Washington College of law and government program. Thank you fernando. applause thank you very much dean nelson and welcome everyone. Im faculty director for the government here at the university of Washington College of law and order please youre joining us today to celebrate the launch of oversight project adored and a student blog covering the work of the oversight and the community. We want to get to it and we say the politics and timing is everything and thats as true as could be in respect todays topic. Will be hearing from two speakers and turning to chat with you are there guests and followed by questions from the audience. Students who have to leave for a 1 00 class you are welcome to do so and will be affected and will close by 1 30. A reminder, that you can find our new blog at oversight project. Org. You can join the conversation on twitter at hashtag oversight blogger lunch. Our first speaker is sylvia burwell, the American University 15th president and the first one to serve as president. They share a leader or the experience and the private sectors and president parallel joined the university in 2017. She has been concerned by the senate to two cabinet positions and serving as the 22nd secretary of the department of health and Human Services. Prior to that, as director of the office of management and budget. In addition to the numerous other positions in government, president burwell as out leadership a two at the largest foundations in the world, serving 11 years at the Melinda Gates foundation and the officer and president of Global Development and president of the walmart foundation. She had a bachelors degree in government and in philosophy politics and economics from the university of oxford. Please join me in welcoming sylvia burwell. applause thank you for that introduction fernando laguarda. I want to thank you for your leadership of our Conference Today and your work on our new blog and our nations Inspector General and oversight accountability community. I want to thank our Remarkable Group of gas for coming today and a steam journalist bob award word and jason fits and the department of justice Inspector General Michael Horowitz and the attendees from the Inspector General for an fish and sea and integrity and thank you all for coming. A group of this caliber speaks very highly of the importance of the topic at hand. Which in recent events i think is at the forefront of our discourse while timing is everything this was mentioned in the American University is employing this credible goal topic in our society in today theres actually no different and i also want to thank everyone in attendance from our students to, our staff and ig offices here and the office of special counsel thats represented here today and you are faculty. Its fitting that todays event was in the Washington College of law because more than a century ago, two women were denied access to legal information because of their gender. That are motivated by the reference in respect for the law that they went ahead and found a lawsuit on their own. They would be the First Law School founded by women that had a female dean and a female class. That founding of washington law in that same fidelity to the law and courage in the w. Seal has assembled today and its what drew the people that served in our Nation Special counsel and Inspector General offices to their tireless work for accountable transparent government and work that is vital for our democracy. Ive been fortunate to have experience with the Inspector Generals and i should probably clarify that all those in actions routine. As secretary of health and service under president obama, i served with the ig and a few years before that i was in the Clinton Administration i. Had the chance to work with the ig in the ig staff at the treasury department. In addition to that when for the first time i was in round one i served as the convenor of all the ig is because the onb for management brings together all of the igs and the deputy and had the chance to bring all of the ideas come together in our efforts to share insights and to share challenges. As well as best practices. When i saw the group of Public Servants committed to the government, committed to being a strong and independent voice. The independent voice that this role requires. But i also saw a group that would not confuse independence with isolation. And in treasury as well in the ages. We saw our ig not as different overseers but as independent actual assets to the department. We wanted as much as appropriate and possible, to have their expertise and their insight as part of our initial deliberation. When theyre on the front end of those laws. Looking to ensure that the policies and programs we designed and implemented as part of the executive branch, that the highest standards of fidelity to the law. Fidelity to the level of excellence that our nation deserves. In short, we wanted to collaborate relationship. I wanted to admit that it wasnt always easy. By design, the relationship between appointees and i jeez is meant to be challenging. But with hard work with, an open door and a shared foundation, a Foundation Based on the idea that Good Government is always the ultimate goal. We could make an impact together for the people that we were in government to serve. Today, a couple of years removed from my most recent government service, im thankful to have been a part of the uplifting work and im thankful now to be part of that Academic Community to find ways to have Public Service and ensure that the people on the front lines will connect with scholars as well as our students and leading the next generation of Inspector Generals and special counsels. Thats the higher purpose of Higher Education and looking to advance scholarship and apply those learning and insights into action. Youll see it in todays conference and youll see it under new signing institute of policy and politics. Or leading practitioners and policy makers at are coming together with students to address the challenges of our time. Youll see it in our work to get back to things like our executive education work and the programming offered to actual i jeez and other federal executive through the key executive leadership. I can assure you that there is nothing sneaky about the College Campus and gone are the days of isolated showers. American university is a chance we are changemakers on the move. Searching for new ways to make an impact. In 41 years ago, when president carter side the Inspector General act of 1978, he said that the audience that they was gathered for a matter of public trust. For a decade since, through today, our nations Inspector Generals and special councils of bid the work to protect that trust. And so, we are fortunate for their service. Thank you for letting me join you all today and i hope that you enjoy the rest of the conversations, thank you all. applause thank you very much president sylvia burwell. Our next speaker is former congressman from 2009 through 2007 and he was chair of the committee on oversight perform from 2015 until stepping down. A graduate of bringing Young University and mr. Jason chaffetz chief of staff with a John Huntsman prior to his election to congress, a champion of oversight to the executive branch and is currently a contributor to fox news. Please join me in welcoming the former congressman, Jason Chaffetz to the Washington College of law. applause thank you so much for having me. I heard theres pizza and i do just about anything parasites of pieces whole wasnt hard to get me here. I really do appreciate it and i have up my hats off on this project. It really is one of the more impressive important things that ive seen and im very surprised to see it. But very glad to see it because you know what, theres already somebody doing something stupid somewhere. When you have a federal bureaucracy as big as it is this oversight concept is pivotal. It really is pivotal. Back in 1814, the Early Congress decided to create a committee that was under a different name but back in 1814 they created was was today modernday Oversight Committee. They decided that i responded sure would happen in our congress and we need to have some congressional oversight and that was the purview of what we are supposed to do and the committee grew and expanded at some point it, had 70 plus members on it and contracted it back and different gyrations and different names and interesting to me, back in the mid 1800s there, was a young man who was elected from the state of illinois and he was the freshman of the committee and not the most glamorous committee and operations and all of these other ones with the a committees so we took this young freshman out of illinois and very quickly hearing the reputation, his nickname was spotty. He wasnt known as honest abe back then but was known as abraham lincoln, freshman from illinois but they call them spotty. The reason they call them spotty is because he immediately addressed the president because he did not believe that the Mexican American war started in the spot that the president said it started. He had a series of speeches and tell me exactly where those shots were fired. You havent produced them, where was the spot . The earned a reputation because theyre traveling the country and a president of communication and didnt have laws with communication and that is what he did. He found some friends around the country and the presidency to the fire and was more right than wrong and is a very important illustration to grab in this situation in outpouring it is. Fast forward to todays modern day and the Oversight Committee. Theres a lot of work that has to be done. When they first came on to this committee, we were off to the races. I dont think it matters who is the president. Whether its a democrat or republican, we have to set that aside but our founders believe that this nation was different. Its easier if youre a monarch, its easier if the United States congress was not built for speed, it was not the easiest path from get to hear that there. What it does require as i like to hear from Ronald Reagan is that you can trust but verify. Think about how big the federal government is now. Its 2. 2 million federal employees be. Government will spend more than four four trillion dollars. Its hard to get your arms around how big a trillion is. If you spend 1 Million Dollars a day, every day will take you more than 3000 years to get to one trillion. We spend one trillion dollars every 90 days. So, when i say theres already somebody doing something stupid somewhere, its true. There are mistakes that needs to be learned. These are the problems on the move this forward. He needs to be as objective as it can possibly be. Politics in this town is just naughty, its crazy on both ends of the spectrum. What congress be the political machine that it is is the way our founders envisioned it. But oversight true, good oversight is supposed to be as objective as a possibly can. When i first came to congress i, had no idea what Inspector General did and it sounded like a couple of nerves with green visor is on and i had no idea. When you go and you pull back the layer and you peel the onion if you will there are 72 inspectors general when theyre actually appointed and referred by the senate and there are ten vacancies right now and there should be fully staffed. They have 13,500 employees and some of these organizations are rather large and 40 or 50 or so employees in these groups. They are the eyes in the years that congress will never ever be. I have always believed that if you can get more exposure to the American Public as to whats going on the better off are going to be and my biggest fear was that we had all these inspectors general and doing all those good work and then the issue to report after a year or two of investigation just sat on some shelf and no one paid intend to do it. Congress is notorious for having seven miles wide and a half inch deep and it doesnt have the bandwidth to dive deep the way the Inspector General can do so. So, what i get excited about in this project is interesting to see how it morphs over the course of time and to give a better exposure so the people will have an interest in the interior department and can go deep on that. If theyre interested of taking a dive deep into that it is the American People who have a bill. This project has the potential of being one of the best conduits to get that information without the filtering that they want to lay on top of it. To whats really going on and the challenge for you along the way is to be as objective as possible. Leave the subjectivity to a political twist for comments or another avenue to do it and getting information on how you do that. I think the credibility that you could bring to this university really has the opportunity as much as anything else ive seen out there to take this to a whole another level with the Communications Era and so different than how i grew up. The young people in this room are changing the world and or process information. We could blossom into what it is they wanted to be but if you do so it doesnt become a partisan collection until one party or the other and i think you will achieve the success that i will benefit all americans and have the ability to have a degree of credibility that very few others along the way. Once i conclude, on hes a hats off to those involved in the Inspector General community. Ive had several friends we recognize some faces here before the committee and i had a great experience and i see some people that might one have a word with me afterwards but. I think mr. Horowitz is in the hot seat here. I want to thank him for his service and to deal with in his group and henry kirner is on our staff and taken on the rolls. We have a lot of good people here and a lot of good work and it doesnt go recognized but i for one hopefully represent the people to give a lot of things and appreciation for what you do and how you do it and as pivotal to a good quality function of government in the american taxpayers prowl. Thank you for your service, thank you for having here today and congratulations on this new blog. Appreciate it, thank you. applause thank you very much mister Jason Chaffetz. Our next two speakers need no introduction even outside of washington but im going to introduce them as i asked them to please join me on stage. As they come up a provide a brief bio. Bob woodward is an associate editor for the Washington Post and has been there since 1971. After graduating from university and serving the navy. He has shared and tripled surprises and in 1973 for coverage of the watergate scandal with Carl Bernstein and second into thousand three as the lead reporter for the coverage of the 9 11 terrorist attack. Mr. Woodward has coauthored and authored 19 books all of which have been national non fiction bestsellers. Hes written books on nine of the most recent president s from nixon to trump. Including his latest book, here with trump in the white house. Michael horowitz is the Inspector General of the department of justice and share of the Legal Counsel and the integrity and efficiency. As Inspector General, he oversees more than 450 special agents and inspectors and attorneys and staff. His mission is to detect and deter waste, fraud and abuse of his conduct in doj programs and to promote economy and efficiency and department operations. Prior to serving as Inspector General mr. Horowitz had a private practice and department of justice. He received his gdp from law school. Please welcome both of our guests. applause i hope the microphone is on. After some brief remarks and conversation will turn to the audience for questions. A reminder, you can follow the website at oversight project outwork and you can join the conversation on twitter and hashtag oversight blog lunch. So, bob woodward thank, you very much for being here. I want to get right to a question that is on the minds of the audience and that is what has come out about the situation in respect to ukraine. It doesnt seem to be persuade and many republicans as a problem and it took a while for the inquiry to gather steam and it wasnt until the tape came out that the tide turned in that instance. What in your view what it take here for republicans to be concerned . Well, to a certain extent its easier to describe the creation of the universe. laughs its a complicated question but let me try to be brief when we hear from michael. Because you are on the hot seat for the government within the independence. I know i havent been a reporter for 47 years. I still think that the main thing to worry about is secret government and even at my age, my first thought generally in the morning when i wake up is, what are the tiding . That means that theyre all these hiding something. That theyre not just turning all the cards up to work on it. Now, whats going on with the impeachment investigation of President Trump and ukraine is very serious. I think its going to be investigated but there is lots of democrats as president is or well still here . She was kind of so serious that it may and for presidency. Thats possible but you have to put the context of the one time the president resigned. President nixon was because of the buildup of all of what watergate was and watergate was not just a burglary in the democratic headquarters. It was a series of operations designed to destroy the process by which people are selected to run the president and then the process of selecting of one of the first phases of watergate was 17 wiretaps and reporters and white house official in a Burglary Team operating in the white house basement that literally worked in california and broke in to the psychiatrists office of daniel ellsberg. Now, you can pair it and you dont know and we may find out this to be the case. That trump and the administration and his wiretaps named a reporter or white house official to track down the leak. We dont know whether they had something retained that was something into chairman shifts doctors office. The magnitude is not there yet. The operation was part of the massive sabotage and espionage in 50 people working for them. If you get into the details that are destroyed the, leaking candidate for the democratic nomination said with god somebody who was much easier to run against and when they were caught with massively funded war on justice and the coverup. If you listen to the nixon tape, there is no ambiguity where you do your work and you have your role of ambiguity. The tapes and balances of him literally saying that we have to pay blackmail money to obstruct justice and keep people from talking in the various investigation is only going to cost 1 Million Dollars where 12 times nixon had payment of blackmail. So, you have a scale of criminality that we havent seen in the trump case now. I think that its always possible but if you look at the narrow people of the ukrainian missiles youre going to miss the last book i did on trump and trump in the white house. When you see how he operates in Foreign Affairs in the economy and i described it as a governing crisis in all areas. It all needs to be examined in a very serious but fair minded way. Which is very difficult. I could go on too long about what happened in the Trump White House in the first 18 months. But its the sort of stuff that really causes you to worry. This one example. A year into his presidency, one of the things that publicly ended in National Security Council Meetings was always beating on why are we spending all this money on nato . Why do we have 28,000 u. S. Troops and south korea and they kept saying, this is the best money we spent and has kept the peace for 70 years and trump wouldnt let go of it and kept saying that were suckers and are wasting our money with this being so rich and if we didnt spend money on all of the allies. The secretary of Defense James Mattis at the meeting where trump was saying why are we doing this. James mattis said something that was one of the most chilling things ive ever heard as a reporter. He said mister president , or doing all of these things to prevent World War Three. Now, number one job of a president is to prevent World War Three in my view. You look at other president s with bush senior and George Herbert walker bush when he was president. Imagine a meeting and the secretary of defense with dick cheney. I imagine him having to say to president bush, by the way were spending all this money and all these allies and we have this massive military to prevent World War Three. Bush knew that and president s need to know that. That it is not that it was realized and i hope it is now realized by President Trump. They have to put that in a matter of scale in a matter of vulnerability and if we ever have Nuclear Weapons used in the world it will should that happen, god help us it does not define history its going to define the whole nation. The oversight process by the media and by people like michael as essential to explaining whats going on and i think putting the government and people in government in the position of being more straightforward and sylvia was saying to look at the Inspector General as somebody helping them. Im not sure thats always the case. But i think in a sense, just your presence light a fire. Thank you for that answer. And what youre describing as the picture of the past execution regarding abuse and the work of the public and the powers and i remarked more internal of oversight accountability and michael, thank you for being here. You are one of the representatives and i really appreciate and students appreciate your support of our efforts to launch. Can you say a little bit in the outside world about inspectors general at this point in time . And how it relates to our public and also as a matter of Civic Literacy and why this work is so important . Its a pleasure to be here and i promise not to have a World War Three and ukraine or a leave that to bob to do and thats why hes had those and i havent. But its a very important event and oversight project and the reasons bob indicated and mentioned earlier and that chaffetz mentioned, the need and desire for the public to understand what the government is doing is growing more and more and theres some irony in the fact that post watergate where caught are signed what they said at the time was at an alltime low. I havent track those measurements but i guess some of that confidence has been impacted over the last many years and over seven and a half years. The public i think more and more needs independence and voices and will speak to factually what is occurring and that is really what we do in the election committee. Theyre 73 of us across and congress that created a new position and when thats filled, and the others are fill the vacancies will be 74 and 30,000 plus employees and their there to keep eyes on government and confirmed our standpoint of whats going on and the federal government. I should make the point that there are local i jeez and other oversight entities across the country who do tremendous work and 30 Inspector General whose here today and the inspectors general across the country and the reason we exist in these important issues that are going on is to follow the money and see where the money is. Those dont get the most attention but for example, there has been a massive audit going on of the Defence Department. The first one ever and when you think about all the money that goes to the Defence Department thats what youre taking and thats what is run by the Defence Department in general. We have some highprofile matters going on but just you think about the work being done on a level but we are doing a lot hopefully a project like this will highlight. Which is the work that doesnt get on the front page but is nevertheless critically important to what goes on. Weve had words from hhs ig and were working on a review on that and we have the fast and furious reporting. We were really there to the publics benefiting from our work which is our efforts of Greater Transparency and finding out where folks are to keep from the public in critical information about what the government is doing. And letting the public understand what is really happening with the policies of funding and in my case for example the Justice Department of legal authorities and whether its in the National Security area or on the criminal side and weve done reports for the forfeiture. Thats been given to the department. We think thats what were very much trying to do. Or tried to make sure that there is transparency in the government and a famous saying since the graduate of justice brand ice and the in fact in and we very much believe that as i jeez and its critical before we became a justice effort and bob woodward and journalist do that every day. Then they let the see what the public is going on. Thanks for that. Congressman chaffetz talked about how oversight functions are so important. The work that you described is an example of that and at the same time, the reality is, we have to deal with Congress Setting policies and in charge of the overall assessment of the accountability to perform its functions. So can you address that you can see interplay between the internal check and balance of the Oversight Committee and the Inspector General that are part of the government and how they are in play with the czech that is so important of the role of congress, especially in the environment when we start the conversation about the oversight that does have political implications. But we are at a moment where politics overlap and what is the way to have their effectiveness and is there something that we would like to form that process. By law, we report to our Agency Leadership and our congressional oversight. One of the things that we see right here its on occasion, we have cabinet secretary like sylvia mentioned who are finding our you worked useful but frankly, more often and not at the mid Level Management we dont quite get that type of reception. What i have found and my fellow i jeez i found is that our work and reporting is often through congressional hearings and congressional oversight but things have changed we. Make recommendations are reports and approve the operations which we have just reviewed. But we are not trying to write a report and be dropped down and nothing happens. What we do, is constant following. They have improved operations and having the ability to go to congress and having the press interests when there are news reports about our work. There is more action and will take them more seriously and thats critical to what we do and how to get this done. Just picking up on what congressman chaffetz said, one of the challenges with congressional oversight is how to keep that move and how to have a hearing and no followup and nothing happens. Everyone is busy but there has to be sustained followup. Can i take this to here can i ask you a few questions . laughs could we hook you up with a polygraph . No, okay. I know you will answer honestly. Im very interested because in the news business. Its the newspaper i work for the, Washington Post its very important to have an environment that is somewhat freewheeling and a reporter can go to a manager and say there is something that smells ofs insecurity and i want to look at it. They will get the go ahead and your operations and someone comes to you and says i have a tip or my sniffer tells me were not in forcing the voting rights. As the law mandates will be let that person start to look at it . Great question. Its a important part of what we do which is something similar in that we have lots of information coming in from the whistleblowers and whether we call them whistleblowers theyre not individuals at the Justice Department that have 10,000plus people and we have 450. Our eyes and ears are with those people and oftentimes we get what we have to do is assess it and we talk about it. Not in similar ways to what you used from the newsroom. I dont play bravely in that role but we have a similar job. Pushing people back. Can i just tell the atmosphere and leadership and your answer is yes. Somebody comes at you and says i really think that we should look at this and you give them the go ahead for a week, a day a, month. A lot of it is going to be the same of how much credibility do you have when you kick the tires and lets see what weve got. We will then reassess and figure out. But if they came to you and said the attorney general was abusing his power. I think we should look at it. Again, it would depend on what the allegation is. You would be free . The great thing about this is true for all of the eye jeez is the critical part of the staff is the foundation. Your answer is yes . Im putting on the fact the answer is yes. Would you have to tell the infamous attorney general that youre on our radar . So, this is true from any people in the department. We dont have a reason to keep it secret. What would be a good reason . If you have for example something to have some of these are ongoing. Its Traditional Law enforcement for looking to do something. And our situation it, doesnt happen that frequently and if something wanders its way to us if weve done something wrong which is someone to our doorstep and announced it. Study after study will tell you that whistleblowers and private practice of whistleblowing issues and supporting the functions will genuinely speaking will be in their organizations focus. Usually or not the first stop. Attorney general barr, when he sees you in the hallways of the Justice Department. It should he feel eternally that there is a watchdog . That there is potential trouble . I would hope all in that department when they see us know do you have any friends in the department . laughs the great thing about this job is that people show up and want to be at lunch with me. It doesnt happen very frequently. I can be in the department lunchroom in the second laughs the answer is you dont have many friends . If we are doing our job right we dont have many friends. Can i just tell this . If you have to go to class they wont think any less of you. Before you gonna miss something. You mentioned the movies and they made a movie about watergate and i did all the president. Have people seen it . A good number of people. Youre very good looking. You have no idea how many women ive disappointed. laughs serious disappointment with me. Or making the movie in 1975. Theyve got the director of alan pergolas meeting and dust in half men and redford. Who do we get to play ben bradley . They had jason from broadway and it was a bad time in his life. He wasnt an accident, was an alcoholic and it was almost like they were brothers. We want you to play ben bradley. Who will pay you 50,000 dollars and it was such a bad time, said 50,000 dollars thats great give me a script all read it and ill be back tomorrow. He came back the next day and he said, what do you think . He said, i cant play bradley. Why . I read the script, whats wrong with the script . Im going to quote. He said well, bradley does is run around and say where is the story. It they said thats what the editor of the Washington Post does. All you have to do is find 15 ways to say where is the story and thats what he did. Youve seen the movie and he won the academy award. All he does really is in different ways. Thats your job laughs i didnt win an academy award. The reason the ig works is because the congressional oversight but also because of the leaders of the organization have to be supportive. Thats how it works. Ive talked and confirmed eulogy but since day one, and years theyve been in existence weve had complete support from the attorney general on both sides on both views. The ig models that ive worked in those agencies have had that. And you see sometimes that doesnt play and its us versus them and thats bills out publicly on whether its a congressional hearing or other means. Its a very fluid model that requires all from the government from the people to make sure it works. All at this, im independent but as i tell our friends were not from the Justice Department. And in the executive branch and executive branch its critical for us to understand our role. Im in the ig act constantly. You cant say if you want to ask questions you can be up at the microphones. You cant be fired by the attorney general and by President Trump. Correct. The 36 i jeez what you think the chances are . No predictions. You mentioned i dont want to think about whos gonna play michael in a movie. All at this dough also on the firings. Weve been around for 40 years now. Theres been an less than one hand the number of ieds and all of the 1981 but moves by president reagan which is the first traditional post with all 12 at the time and a huge blow back was forced to retire about half of them and some of whom we understand ive had enough of being the least popular person. Since 1921, there have been only a handful of igs in this administration. So people dont think that its happened sometimes you want to do your job so well but you do get fired. Dont you . We have to do our job and whether it causes someone to take action or not cannot go into the discussion. It can get too tell me though, cant it . Ig has got themselves in trouble in two ways. One, is becoming rightly or wrongly and the agency heads by congress or others but also its got himself in trouble by having actors and not one realizing where they sit in the constitutional system. Its a challenging issue famously for one they called it straddling a barbed wire fence and it feels like that sometimes. Question from the back. Hi, can everybody hear me . It is my job to turn on the mix to use this opportunity to answer the first question. Im here at Washington College and a member of the oversight project staff and we will thank you guys are coming in and being here. I have an original question which i thought hard about and then mr. Wood would already asked it. So thanks. Ive another one for you based on that conversation. As commerce men chaffetz knows the Media Outlets have no problem reporting over reporting on whats going on on the hill or whats going on in the Oversight Committee. But despite the expertise and the massive amount of power i jeez have to uncover abuse within Government Agencies they receive the same amount of coverage. Mr. Woodward, what can the press do differently to help raise awareness with the American People on what goes on in the Inspector Generals office and second, mr. Horowitz the titan of the igs, how could you help our branch of government better says to do its job . Media environment now is the internet of impatience and speed. Give it to me in a sentence or a headline. Its pretty obvious that President Trump had been somewhat successful in his criticism of making fake news and we do make some mistakes and obviously its a political ploy by him and i think what we need to do with news media is make products better and make it longer and harder and everything that we do and we need to be Catherine Graham who is part of the post and publisher during watergate for a long time and president nixon resigned and wrote coral bernstein a letter on legal yellow legal stationary. This is a woman that had more stationary than ever and voted on other nixons resigning and had some of the stories a dont start reading into any of yourselves. Let me give you some advice. That is beware of the diamond of the process. The team in the pomposity of government and academia stocks the halls. We need to find some way to tune the emotions out and particularly on television of what people say that gets magnified and body language which is mcginiss and self certainty and find some way to tell it. One of the things i like about the report is that i like law and i think long beach somebody who is against the problem and looks at perspectives and so often things and the newspaper are long and need to be along. We have serious things to do. So, i think from our standpoint two, years ago it was they launch oversight that glove and go people can go there and look at it and they launched our own twitter account not only tweets why me and an oversight talk of which ig posted that and they want to try and get the lessons out an oversight glove and in a large sum and how much people have over the years but from the ig community and only three i just have more followers. Were trying to get that out there more and more. This oversight project is very important to that. We have to keep doing the kind of reports that i mentioned. We cant skimp on the facts. I tell people all the time and i get questions about certain reports whether its some of the higher profile reports or lower profile reports. If you actually have gone with the report its 30 pager and 500 or 600 pages of the report on the election. Did you read the 30 pager or so in your summary. Almost all nobody raises their hand. They read the new story or watched whatever media outlet they trust and thats the result and thats what their takeaway is. For those of us who spent a lot of time writing those reports we spend a lot of time going over the facts and frankly and our event last year which you are the keynote of we, were writing in a plane way. We didnt use any report with adjectives. Listen to what you said. Youre having a hard time getting your story which is what youre saying. That is most interesting to me and this is the Information System which is so immense that is clogged up and its serious things that dont get noticed. And many respects what, frustrates of the most is that everyone gets the it first and you get the headline out there and our reports are across the board and are really rich. To your point of getting all of it out, we rarely get the followup story and we really get thought piece of what is this report saying. We get it from the opinion writers. I think you ought to lead them. laughs i think if you leak them and youd get someone an exclusive and you would get more attention and thats the world we live in. Can i leave can i leave my email on the board . Next. My name is jack, im here at the oversight project as well and i want to make sure i got a right. This is for mr. Horowitz. There are some laws regarding Intelligence Community which seemed to be flawed as weve seen in the news when theyre complaining about the office in government. This complaint first went to the office of Legal Counsel and to congress and in the office of Legal Counsel issued a opinion that it wasnt their concern and sure for sure dog on the congress at all. But that was written by the office of Legal Counsel which is headed by the attorney general which was implicated in itself. My question for you as, is the whistleblower law in the Intelligence Community need to be rethought so that they can help protect whistleblowers or help get the complaint out to congress in public when they target those very highest levels . The whistleblower issue in the ig committee is very important with pressure council and this is an issue that we care deeply about and we share the report in july about what works and why it works. We can see it and we can highlight the important was the lawyers have been and how we protect them from retaliation. What we have seen as i jeez in the Intelligence Committee and to have a seat at the table is whistleblowers need to be able to report wrongdoing that they see. I think senator grassley had a very important statement yesterday and its important to the Intelligence Community and ill tie outside of the Intelligence Community and congress has been very clear, and regardless of which party is in power and the inspect federal employees to have wrongdoing to them as part of what congressman chaffetz talked about. There are many instances where as chairmen ive heard from congressman chaffetz and the Justice Department about his committee force of information that they were asking about from ranking members who came from both parts. So, thats a very important part of what we do as i jeez and we regularly sit and talk about. Issues with various whistleblower laws and there are a lot of money out there. Theyve been layered over the years to cover situations out they have arrived. There has been a challenge that i just dont oversee the executive office of the president and the office of each of our agencies. I look forward as sitting chair and as the ig and ahead of the forum and the Office Special counsel will be looking on these core issues and the whistleblower caucuses in the white house with general grassley cochairs. There does need to be fair form. Is there a parallel here between the conversation in what transpired with respect to production of documents. Where there was reluctance to ieds and Inspector Generals and congress who amended the statue to be clear that this was 2006 . Two thousand 16. That all means all and is it an opportunity in the 99 Intelligence Community whistleblower act which does make very clear that they have an important equity in the issue of protecting safeguarding National Defence and protecting whistleblowers is essential which that anguish is not clear enough with having legislation around it. These issues come up and thats why you see the whistleblower laws and new statute coming on board. Not just in the last several years but various grannies organizations and it has come that are actually as many or more federal employees and many agencies that are contractors and guarantees that report with that retaliation. These issues come up and congress then has to decide how to legislate. Its a big challenge as congressman chaffetz said to have a faster process. Obviously Legal Counsel is going to conduct a statute back where it was passed and have various concerns of being passed back then and then in the Clinton Administration. Where they cross administrations and we would not have our business and the press would be in their business if there werent folks were looking to say what was going on. Im going to switch over to the side. Hi, thank you guys for coming and im a part of the oversight project as well. I was curious as to what you guys thought were key issues that i know we spoke about it with the whistleblower before but other issues in the Oversight Community that we should be focusing on with reform or maybe just a little bit more support from media, congress or the general public. I think it would be really important that you lets just take the Affordable Care act of obamacare and i think there has been some ig reports on that so far. Id also like them to make an assessment of how well its working. I know that they think its outside of your lane. Not necessarily. Okay, i think there should be for more this is a report how this about a big topic. Larger than the and im imagination. I havent seen that with something that so central to the government and not only obamacare but some of these projects i would love to talk about this Intelligence Community whistleblower and would be great to get some sort of assessment from it and the ig about how is intelligence and analysts is working. Where is it good . Where is not good . They do some of this internally and they are classified that they will fill the public. The ideas can speak to this here that a lot of work on the obama care law and im not frankly as familiar with it but that is one of our functions and responsibilities and having done that through various Department Programs and i mentioned that weve done a number of reviews on that in terms of how its working. Weve done several reports recently that are outlined of handling of confidential resources with atf and had a number of issues so we do look at the program issues and those are beyond the frustrations at times that those kind of reports and the overview reports which have the catchy headline or the gotcha moment which sometimes dont get the coverage that i personally think should get. Im not the editor of the Washington Post. The dea had a report that is opposed and rightly so about the topic thats very significant in the public imagination and that is very welltimed and thoughtful. Hhs a done its work . Yes. What grade would you give obamacare. Im not the only one. Im honored to answer your question. Thats okay, please. Hows obamacare doing . What would degrade be . The way we look at obamacare is in regards to the intent of obamacare. Its a bell you driven care and that type of care actually transcends across Medicare Medicaid and actually is some of the areas that could say center for disease of control so, its a very broad vision as far as bringing value to the customer and to the patient. And actually to the individual because obamacare had the vision of trying to keep people out of hospitals and keep them from being sick and permitting illness. What grade would you give it overall . What grade . I think as far as how its been carried on and through this administration there is value in obamacare as far as the preexisting condition and there are a lot of pieces of the Law Enforcement perspective which gave us more stringent oversight responsibility and more administrative amenities that we have implemented as well so it would help us with a fraudulent landscape. Over a grade i would give it a b plus. Thats helpful. Youll get that in the paper tomorrow. laughs come to a law school and get cold calls. Can we get you on the deans list here . But i would say about health and Human Services and the struggle from the ig perspective and staff as well as people that are there is that people are mission focused and focus on Good Government and keeping people healthy throughout their life span. Its a good mission and covers a third of our economy and we take it very seriously and i appreciate your effort to talk about how what we do is very broad and how delivering health Team Hurricane people. President trump wants to repeal and replace obamacare so maybe you will be fired tomorrow. You gave it too high a grade. My job is to do my job and all just worry about that. Im ben reyes and im part of wti and my question to you is with the graph and scope of the government, how do the resources of the ig deal with the wide range of the rise . Thats a great question. Its a bit about what i mentioned earlier. They look at risk and where are the greatest risks in the organization and how they spend their money and the Justice Department is about a couple of billion dollars is a small number compared to other agencies. Where is the greatest risk of the Justice Department . Its not just about going out the door but its about how do they apply laws and attracting several liberties. Is it a humane system . How are the congressional officers managing it . How are the inmates transitioning for people who are in prison in these opportunities. All those issues that arent just for us and the justice and bottom line dollars. We are looking at a lot of profiles and to some ieds its raised from a famous movie of follow the money and you water the money goes. But for us, we are looking at a variety of issues. The money is coming from the prison system and from inmates and from the union ban managers and from the concern groups and the citizenry to give you an example. Well here from advocates who are concerned about asset chicer and reform on that will hear from members of congress about what issues theyre hearing about. One of the things that we talk about all the time when these issues come up internally is when writing something with relevant policy and we can write an area thats with me or my folks but i have 450 or 500 people oversee 110,000 and what are the policies. I write a report, does it matter to the leadership of the component of the fbi or dea. To the Oversight Committees in my organization care about that . Is this something that the public needs to know about even if they dont know either organization cares about it. Those are the kinds of things that were thinking about. We dont have a lot a bandwidth with a lot of reviews and a number of people that we have. We have to be very careful. Or getting close to the end of our time so it will get another question. Thank you. My name is elise, i work at the center at the university in detroit. Its named after senator car 11 and its a strengthen oversight and the state level and elsewhere. My question to you its about the events of congress wrote a lot trying to require the complaints about the intelligence of views which is actually getting to congress. Where the issue of executive privilege that came up in the latest series of events and occurs to me that executive privilege must be an issue that comes up all the time when i just think about having to report things to congress. Im wondering what are the principles you can think about or the procedures that we should all know about . Like you. Good question about privileges and how they have in the ig and i just want to mention the olc opinion was the interpretation the executive privilege question. But they do come up for us and they come up in the context and an agency of the Justice Department which is about lawyers and folks who are looking at legal issues and the privilege question occasionally executive privilege which will not come up that frequently and it comes up occasionally but we may clear across the executive branch in the community is that worthy in the executive branch and exposure to an ig we believe is a privilege. Because were still in the executive branch and its from several years ago that says that in the context. So, as we frame it the, question isnt to that information. Can we include it in a report and take it to congress and go to the public. That is where the challenge lies. As i said, its not necessarily the attorney executive privilege area, its for my world an example the Attorney Client privilege and we will do what we can to make sure that the information gets out in a way that wont waver privilege. We will have it writing around and dont talk about the issue and we write it in a way that we go back and forth with the department. They do have a privilege and to recognize privilege and we as i jeez are the owners of the privilege. Understand that. We cant, those of us who are lawyers, do that because we risk our barr licenses on top of violating someone else is privileged. As you just cant do it. Do you ever ask to have it waved . Do you ever go to the attorney general of the white house and say, you want to disclose. Im going to give you just a minute because i want to get that last question. As an example, what we will do is, this happen in the fast and furious report, we had a chapter in there about the handling of a response from congress and explained why he got it wrong. And that chapter went to the white house for consideration of whether president obama would invoke in privilege, he did not, it went as it is. I didnt ask them do you think its privileged or not, i just need to know can i send it. There are times, though, when you could have that discussion about that but usually its in the context of either you have already waved Attorney Client privilege is for Something Else that he is done or isnt really privileged. Michael . Hi, great. My name is michael carroll, im a member of the faculty here at American University. Bob, i grew up in washington. I remember reading all of your reporting back in the seventies and have been a fan ever since, so thank you for being here. Its a great honor. My question is on behalf of my colleague Robert Vaughan who has been about oversight and accountability he is the van in the vaughan index, and he is an expert on the merits Protection Systems board, and i am interested in, to mr. Horowitz, the mspb is part of the infrastructure that supports whistleblowers and is currently completely understaffed, so it has a 2000 case back load and is not processing any of this. Is there anything the ig community can do to bring more attention to that sort of hollowing out of the protection thats an important part of it . And mr. Woodward, how in the heck can the press tell a story about what this means for this sort of Chilling Effect that it might have, so its both, isnt really having a Chilling Effect and if it, is how do you tell that story to a broader audience . One minute each. Yeah, no we certainly care about these issues, ive actually talked about it we offer special counsel and talk about how to bring that information to the publics attention, as well as, frankly, i will go to my own parochial in tests which is i do vacancies and making sure those are filled as well. We have a number that we are looking forward to getting filled and we are trying to work through some of these issues. And highlight the challenges. I dont even need a minute, thank you. I mean, if its relevant and you can explain something to me, we would try to do a story about it. Im going to thank you very much and thank you for joining us. I hope you will agree that its been both and informative and entertaining conversation, and i hope that you will join us online at oversight project thought or. You will follow, us you will send us don your articles for topics that we can cover. I have been writing some as they come up here and i know my students have, as well. Thank you very much and following the conversation, hashtag oversight blog launch. Please join me in thanking our. applause . Im going to go back to the office and march around the hall saying, where is the report . I have to remember that one. The Supreme Court justices return for the new term next week