Creighton, who has written a wonderful new book, and mark sommer, writer for the buffalo news. Mark will have a conversation with margaret, then we will open it up. Thank you for being here. [applause] mark hi, margaret. Margaret hi, mark. Mark great to see such a turnout. I really liked your book. I thought it was one of the best works of history. As great works of history do, they make history really come alive. It is one of those rare books that does just that. Many people know about the book that talked about the exhibition, the city, a very prosperous city. Your book is the first fulllength book that focuses specifically on the history of one of the great events that happen in buffalo. Worlds fairs were once major events in the United States. That is no longer the case. Buffalo was one of 15 cities to ever host a worlds fair in the United States. It hasnt happened since 1984 in new orleans. The next one is going to be anyone know . Probably not. It will be in because asked on. The United States is not slated to participate in that worlds fair. This occurred during what was called the grand era of worlds fairs. It was a big deal for buffalo. Margaret, talk about that. What did it mean for buffalo at that time to host a worlds fair. Margaret great question. Let me first thank leslie. So buffalo was a big deal at the turnofthecentury. We are seeing that same type of optimism now, but it was very proud of its accomplishments and its stateoftheart architecture, the finest asphalt streets in the country, electric streetcars, electric lights. It was big, 300 50,000 people at the turnofthecentury. It had fathered two president s and it had big dreams. One of the things that hope to do was to become bigger and raise its profile, so one of the ways that cities do this is to host a huge exposition, and buffalo had big ideas that its panamerican exhibition would be even more grand than the worlds fair that took place in chicago in 1893. Mark electricity was still new and played a big part. Can you talk about how dazzling the affair looked at night . Margaret the electric tower was one of the signature buildings of the exposition and the affair really was all about electricity in many ways. It celebrated its command over the natural world, represented by Niagara Falls. We had giant transformers set up on the ground to bring electric current into the fair and eliminate illuminate the ground. The big event was the elimination that took place every night and people were awed by this. They tried to work their way close to see what were initially little pinpricks of light, and blossom into a beautiful yellow and orange glow that brought the whole fairgrounds alive. This is one of the biggest hits of the fair. Mark the choice of colors, how the colors were used told a big story. Can you share that . Margaret the affair was all about pride in western and white civilization. The fair directors wanted to convey a message about how people had moved, particularly the United States, from a position of savagery to kind of the apex of civilization. They translated this message into the colors of the fair. And you entered on the periphery of the grounds, you would be entering at places where buildings were tinted more red and orange and yellow. That represented the more barbaric races and as you moved toward the electric tower, the tint of the building grew more and more pale and faded, and then you reached the signature building, the electric tower, which was painted in yellow and white. It was not difficult for people to understand the allegory here about race. Mark in the same way color was used in a racial way, people of color were portrayed in a particularly kind of disturbing way. There were signs of conquest everywhere in the fair. There was the Darkest Africa exhibit with the old plantation. The way native americans were depicted, including geronimo, who i believe was on loan from a state prison in oklahoma. Reading these stories now, it is really shocking. Margaret it is distressing. We have to remember that this was the era of jim crow, of course the era of segregation and lynching. It shouldnt be surprising as we look back and see how the fair officials put this together. It is a story about supremacy, particularly race supremacy. They conveyed their notions about this through exhibits, like the old plantation, which brought in africanamerican performers to enact the socalled good old days before the civil war, and these were performers who picked cotton and sang and danced. Mark this was for decades after the civil war, yet this was still happening in the United States. Margaret thats right. This is post reconstruction when there had been a reconciliation between the white south and north, which placed africanamericans in a position of struggle and challenge. Mark Something Else that people, when they read your book, will be thrown for a loop has to do with animal welfare. There are a couple of events that were very shocking. One in the book tells of the public execution or at least the planned public execution of an elephant. The first jumbo was a very beloved animal that was paraded around the country. Margaret very popular. Mark the second incident concerned the mass slaughter of dogs that occurred at the exposition, which people were paying extra tickets to witness. Perhaps you can tell us a little about those events. Margaret lets start with the dogs. I would say this is one of the most shocking things i came across, which is that in buffalo shelters and parks, dogs were rounded up, poodles, terriers, cross breeds. Rounded up and then brought to the fair, where they were killed, and then the native peoples of the fair ate those dogs in a dog feast. The Humane Society in buffalo was very percussive very progressive. They were very distressed by this come about the same time, they wanted to acknowledge the cultural traditions of the native performers, who helped orchestrate this, so they didnt want to interfere. It was a very troubling event, but it was also an event that kind of revealed the cultural tensions and challenges of this fair. Mark there were some positive aspect about the fair in their depictions of people not from the United States. Particularly the presentation of latin american countries. There was the panamerican exposition. From your book, it sounded like latin american countries have gotten short shrift in previous world fairs. Not the case in buffalo. Margaret thats right. I think one thing that buffalo should be proudest of in terms of this fair was the way that they invited latin american republics to be part of this exposition. They were very much involved in helping to govern cuba. Cuban dignitaries came to buffalo and said, we would prefer if the United States would give us our complete freedom, and so, the fair gave these countries exhibit space in which they could show off their accomplishments, their art, their educational products, et cetera, but it also gave them a way to talk back, to rebut American Foreign policy, which i think is pretty interesting. Mark you people the book with many fascinating characters. If you dont mind, we can take them one at a time. I think everyone is familiar with leon, the person whose name is usually followed with a word anarchist. He was the assassin from cleveland of William Mckinley at the temple of music. You have a lot to say about him. He is quite an unusual guy. Margaret he is an unusual guy. The way i frame the story was to talk a little bit about his desire to be in anarchist. I am not sure the anarchist community embraced him. Certainly after the assassination, they tried to distance themselves. To also talk about his mental illness. He clearly, in my mind, was a sick man. He also gave a number of short speeches about how he was driven and motivated by being unemployed and unable to get access to hospitals, physicians, health care. We dont want to have much sympathy, because he did terrible things, but he brought up issues that are real issues and they continue to be something we discussed. Mark i never say his name right. You said a little differently. Margaret in buffalo, the paper is came out and said it was pronounced solgus, yet i am reading other interpretations that say it is chogus. Perhaps we have people here that can help us pronounce this name. Mark anybody . He is at the temple of music with a revolver in his hand waiting to kill the president. There is someone else in line named jim parker, an exslave. He wanted to shake hands with the president. Instead, he corralled him to the ground and is celebrated as a black man who got the guy that shot the president and later, something happens and history is turned on its head. It has unfortunate effects on the arrest of mr. Parkers life. Margaret jim parker, as you say, helped tackle the assassin and was recognized as one of the heroes of the moment because he prevented czolgosz from firing another round. For the next eight days, he was seen as the hero who might havee assassin and immediately was recognized as one of the heroes of the moment because he prevented czolgosz from firing a third round, and certainly for the next eight days, he was seen as the hero who mightve saved mckinleys life. But a funny thing happened. After he was hailed as the savior, certainly you have the secret service and other individuals there to guard the president coming out and saying, we certainly did our job. That man was not there at all. Then in the trial of czolgosz, James Parkers testimony was never called for, never called on, and he was edited out and erased from the memory of the event. He went around the country for pretty much the rest of his life, talking on street corners, meeting people in various churches and so forth talking about the role he played, and eventually died in philadelphia, found on the streets and destitute. Mark very tragic. One of the people in your book is the smallest person, only two feet tall, known as chiquita. Margaret she is one of my favorite characters in the story. I say characters, this is nonfiction and these are all real people. Chiquita was born in guadalajara. She was about 26 inches tall and was discovered by a showman when she was living in new york and was brought to the fair as one of the highlights of the midway, and she was named the mascot of the exposition, which is interesting, because she was tiny, a little person. They redefined her as a cuban, instead of mexican. The fact she was a mascot was a perfect representation of what the United States saw as its relationship with cuba. Uncle sam, the protector of this Little Island nation, so she became a celebrated individual and was not treated very well by her manager, and at one point late in the exposition, she left very suddenly, and i dont want to ruin the story, but it is quite a dramatic departure. Mark a lot of people are familiar with the story of the woman who was the first to go over Niagara Falls in a barrel, and she survived. She survived she lived it. She hoped to capitalize on that experience and make a lot of money, but it didnt really happen, did it . Margaret poor annie taylor. She was destitute, like so many of these other characters here. She decided she would make money for her later life by going over the falls and being the first person to survive. Things, but ioil guess im going to have to spoil things. Becomes ant and incredible celebrity especially on the last day of the fair, but people dont think when they look at her, something does not seem quite right. She has billed herself as a 40 road. In fact, she is 64. She describes herself as a dancing teacher. People think, she doesnt look that limber. Thing andis amazing then wanted to go on the road with the show with her barrel. The problem was, her managers could not convince people she had actually done this daredevil trick because she did not fit the part. She was not young. She was not you beautiful she was not beautiful. She did not look like a funky attraction. Eventually, one of her managers stole her barrel and put someone any in to play the part of taylor and was left the part left to taylor and was sell postcards in Niagara Falls the rest of her life. Mark so there was a lot riding on this worlds fair in buffalo, especially the ruling class. They ponied up 500,000, which is a lot more money than it is today in a matter of hours. They got together and emerged and made commitments for that much money because they wanted the worlds fair in buffalo and not in detroit, right . Margaret thats right. Mark so there was a lot of pressure to get a big return. In the end, there were 8 Million People who went through the turnstiles. That would seem to be a lot of people, but there was constant pressure all the time to drum up more interest, get more people to come, and in the end, they still fell short in making enough money to return money back to everyone who made an investment in the fair. Margaret the producers were extraordinarily optimistic. The press fueled the optimist in. This is going to be possibly bigger than chicago. This will be the best fair ever held in the United States because we pulled ourselves out of a recession. People have pocket money. Buffalo has Niagara Falls nearby. 40 Million People can come to buffalo very easily on overnight trains. It is basically going to be the hit of the century, so there was a tremendous amount of overconfidence. Other things played into the shortfall. The weather was bad in the spring and early summer. The advertising people say later was a bit off. There was also some speculation that the focus on latin america had not brought in the numbers of people who really wanted to see exhibits produced by parisians or germans, and they were unclear as to what to expect in terms of latin american shows. They were concerned by the summer, but they had an answer to this, which was to bring in president mckinley in september. He would effectively turn things around. Mark and he did, but not in the way that was intended. Margaret he did turn things around, absolutely. Mark so there has been a lot of talk is this on . I feel like it just went on when out. Went out. Why dont i use yours. Well go back and forth. So mckinley heralds the opening of the fair. He gives his blessing to the fair, then is tragically killed. I believe there are about two months left in the exhibition at that point, and attendance takes a hit. Clearly, that was one of the reason why the attendance goals have not been met. After mckinley dies, and it took eight days for him to die. It looked like he was going to come out from it. The press was already writing about his recovery. Everything was great. Then things took a turn for the worse, and he died pretty suddenly. That cast a pall over the fair going forward. Somethinged to cast over the city of buffalo. Before we talk about that, what did the doctors and surgeons do that some feel was not enough. Was not enough . I will let you answer that. There is a lot of controversy. Margaret sure. Well, there was a lot of secondguessing as you can imagine. There was some thought that the bullet had been left in mckinleys back when it mightve been pulled out, and maybe that would have done the trick or perhaps there was not enough sterilization that was going on. Perhaps they had not closed things properly. One of the things i did was talk to some trauma surgeons today and ask them to take a look at the case and see whether it might have been possible. They said that even today with imaging and antibiotics that it would have been tough. The problem was that his been blown apart a bit and had spilled poisonous enzymes. Recovernt probably back then. There was this moment that buffalo had believed it had done something really miraculous. I gave rise to not only the sense of relief but also the sense of belief that buffalo would now be the temporary nations capital, that the milburn house would be the temporary white house. The cabinet would be set up in the buffalo club. Just this amazing moment of relief and exhilaration. And then, all of a sudden, within a few hours, things take a downturn. The president had been asking for cigars and toast. All of a sudden, he cannot eat the toast. What is going on . They pull everything out,. Trychnine, brandy give everything they can to him to stimulate his heart. Does not work. Mark so has that continued to cast a dark spell over the city of buffalo . Margaret well, as some of you sitting here now, i taught a as some of you sitting here now, i taught a course on the boston red sox. I became familiar with sports teams. I am not a big believer in curses or spells, but possibly some of you are. We have to think back to what possibly could have been done differently with regards to mckinley. You know, aside from the people from the confidence people felt he was going to recover and that included people like the Vice President , teddy roosevelt, i cannot find any fault. I also think that buffalo has paid a price for any sins it might have committed in the 20th century. I think buffalo is on the upswing. Bills and the sabres, their time is about to come. I do not think we can look back at mckinley for this. Mark we would just blame rex ryan. You grew up in hamburg. You lived for a couple years in buffalo, just a short distance from the footprint of the panamerican exhibition. You told me you never really knew much about buffalos history, pan am or otherwise. Researchyou to want to the panamerican exhibition . Margaret i wanted to make up a child, iut how as a wandered around fordham drive, the days long ago, and i love history from the very beginning but that would be a total lie. , i majored in english. I dont think i took a history course until after college, so it was a number of years ago, i was teaching on 19th century america, and i find eric larsons the devil in the white city. He talked about this amazing effort the worlds fair, the , white city that was so magnificent and so influential, and at that point, i was looking for a good story to tell, and it came to me that there might be another fair that had some drama associated with it, so i came back to buffalo thanks to my friends, and i began to dig around. Thanks also to mark goldman who helped me with a lot of this research. I discovered there were all sorts of eccentric characters that provided the public with some, not necessarily comic fromf, but distracted them the misery of the assassination, and they also spoke to some of the themes in that they all resisted or opposed or offered a rebuttal to some of the themes of supremacy and domination that had been expressed by the directors. Mark your research is drawn mostly from newspaper accounts from the day along with memoirs, legal, medical records, scholarly literature. That had to be extremely challenging. To read the book, it reads so seamlessly. The prose is so well done. I cannot imagine how much work it took to cobble that together and translate it to the average person in a way that was compelling and entertaining. Margaret i was so happy when i turned on my computer one day and went to discover that all the panamerican scrapbooks had been digitized. I was flabbergasted. This made things so much easier. Not that i had not loved coming back to my hometown, but it was a long drive. It was challenging. Some of the newspapers took pride in making up fantastic stories, and others took pride in checking facts, so i had to navigate through the evidence, and it was challenging. Mark im going to ask two more questions. Im going to ask everyone to think about what questions they might ask. What is the legacy of the panamerican exhibition . It has been 115 years. Margaret i think it is time for us to think beyond mckinley. He was an important man, and of a sleigh we have monuments to him and so forth, but i think it is time to think about what else it meant and what else it represented. We can point to the think itcanness that i an impressive accomplishment. But we can also point to the event that i write about that resistancee kind of and struggles for social justice, fairer treatment of , andls, racial progress equality that they did not get started in buffalo, but the gavee them a window them an opportunity to be discussed and to be challenged. Of amarked beginnings conversation about social justice that went on and continue to go on to this day. Mark last question, so get your questions ready. The panamerican exposition occurred at a time when we werent a globally interconnected world, and worlds fairs were one of the great ways for the world to know what other cultures and societies were doing. Is there still a role for worlds fairs . Should the United States be in kazakhstan in 2017 . Margaret why not . I think that and i have done some looking up and exploring why we do not have worlds fairs and talk to people who say, the olympics take the place of worlds fairs or disney world takes the place certainly of the midway, for instance. They also say, well, you have the world wide web. Effectively, that functions as a s that globalize his communication and gives everyone an opportunity to visit other places and experience and explore and communicate with other people. In a sense, i guess there are , many reasons why we dont have the events. They are very risky for Business Enterprises and the investors, obviously, but it would be great if we did. I think it would be nice if buffalo did this again. Wonderfulen such enterprise and optimism lately that if we were to do something again, there is great opportunity for explaining to the country, to the world what buffalo is and what buffalo has become and the resilience of the city, which has never ceased to impress me. [applause] mark if anybody wants to start a petition to get the worlds fair in the 2000 20s in buffalo, you can do that in the back of the room. All right, are there any questions people would like to ask . I will do my best to hear the question and say it back for everyone to hear. Go ahead. So the question was, you talked about social justice, would you say a word about women at the pan am . Margaret the panamerican fair offered a vision of the proper place of pretty much everyone. That included women. Im going to speak particularly of white women at this point. It had a board of women managers and had a womens building that elite,tty much used by middleclass women, often College Graduates for reunions and receptions. The fair makers were defining individuals,ivated gracious hostesses and so forth. One of the stories i tell is about annie taylor and the way she disrupts this narrative about women and propriety and so forth. She is a wild woman. She crossed the continent eight times. She does not know womens proper place. There she is with a barrel heading down the niagara river. There is a story about women there. What i do not discuss enough and would love it if somebody ofsued this, is the story women, particularly africanamerican women, immigrant women who were working at the fair or who wanted to visit the fair but did not have an of resources to do so. There are more stories to be told. Mark but only talk about mary talbert . She did a lot to get a good exhibit on blacks were called negroes then, so it is the Negro League Exhibit . Margaret mary talbert was a very accomplished africanamerican activist who took great offense at the idea that africanAmerican History would be represented by the old plantation, so she helped bring to buffalo this remarkable exhibit that was at the paris exposition in 1900. It was in the liberal arts building. It exhibited the accomplishments of of africanamericans since emancipation. The problem was that it received paperspress in national and local papers. The express mentioned it very briefly. It was not until the time of the centennial when people were doing so Much Research here in town that people realized this exhibit had actually been cited at the fair. Work, butne terrific it did not get the attention then that it deserved. Mark yes, sir . The question i believe was can you talk about the architectural legacy of the buildings . Ok. Margaret i am not sure i can do that. People like cary grant, others who have explored the art and architecture of the fair in remarkable books have spoken of the distinction certainly between the architecture at this fair, which was considered mission style, spanish renaissance, as opposed to the architecture of the of chicagos white city, which was neoclassical. They talk about that decision to put in a much more fanciful, rainbowcolored city, but in terms of the legacy, there is a lot said about chicago and chicagos world fair and its legacy in terms of launching modern urban planning and so forth. I am not sure i could make claims like that for this fair. One of the ironies i think is they are honoring spanishstyle architecture when the United States was doing its best to shoo away spain from the western hemisphere. That is another story. Mark yes . The question was, it was a statement, the racial insensitivity was very troubling. Was this viewed as the white mans burden . Margaret absolutely. There is this notion well, there is a celebration of the fight that civilized white folks had been able to contain native americans on this continent, and they were now addressing people like filipinos in becoming more civilized through tutorials and so forth. There was a sense that this is an obligation on the part of white people to educate, to reform, possibly in the case of native peoples, to eliminate as well. Mark yes . I think i got it. Ok. I think i can paraphrase what he asked, basically a lot of the exploitive exhibits on the midway were not part of the panamerican exhibition per se, is that correct . Right. But they were happening on the midway. Maybe you can explain the difference between the midway and the rest of the fair . Margaret the midway was a milelong stretch of the fair on the west side that was its concessions range from infant incubator exhibits to trained wild animal shows, to restaurants, to all sorts of different, you know, shows and spectacular sites, but i would not go so far as to say that all the commentary about race and supremacy was located on the midway. I think the midway echoes some of the commentary that was made on the esplanade, near the fountains, and so forth. And when we think about the color scheme of the fair, thats talking about savagery and civilization in the same way. Certainly anthropology exhibits may make some of the same remarks as well. Also, we have to remember that people love to go see the midway. They would dutifully go see the major exhibit halls, but they rarely missed an midway. In terms of influence, we have to look hard at the part of the fair. Mark margaret, thank you very much. Margaret thank you, mark. Mark thank you, audience. You have been great. Mark and margaret, thank you so much. I hope that gives you a teaser to go purchase the book. It makes a Great Holiday gift. Margaret is going to we will find a nice warm spot. Thank you for putting up with a chillier night so we can accommodate a bigger crowd. Margaret was the one gave me my title in an article in 2012. Thank you. It was really a special night. [applause] margaret thank you for coming out. That was great. So good. Thank you. That was perfect. This is American History tv on cspan three were each weekend, we feature 48 hours of programs exploring our nations past. Tonight at 9 00 eastern on afterwards, in his book, the years that mattered most, paul tough reports on the challenges and costs of a college education. He is interviewed by author and founding director of the hope center for college, community, and justice. We are still debating about whether a 12 grade education is enough. It is obviously not enough. All the signs from the economy and the labor market is it is not enough. Unlike our predecessors who were able to respond to that those basic economic signs by saying, let educate our young people, we are fighting about it, turning it into questions of identity and snobbery and politics and partisanship when clearly, there is a sign our young people need our support, the more education, need more skills in order to survive in the current economy. Watch afterwards tonight at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on book tv on cspan2. Wilkins author mark wilkins exd the psychological impact of world war i Aerial Combat and the disorder known as aeroneurosis, a nervous condition brought on by flying. He also talked about diary entries from pilots who experienced this condition and explores their lives after the war. This event was hosted by the smithsonian associates. Pleasedht, we are very to welcome back to this smithsonian mark wilkins. He is the current curator of maritime history at the calvert marine museum. He is also director and he has also been richer and curator of the Maritime Museum and the atlas house museum. Mr. Wilkins is a published author of books and articles. He