Transcripts For CSPAN3 Apollos Political Foreign Policy Impact 20240714

All week. A greater percentage of efforts population followed their flight than any other event in human history. After their flights the astronauts toured. President nixon proclaimed them the best possible am baz dors america could have on the earth. Today were looking back and asking what was the political and Foreign Relations significance of the apollo program, and what is its enduring legacy. Were going to look forward questioning how apollo era space diplomacy should inform Foreign Relations today. Very shortly ill give you Historical Context on the role of project apollo in u. S. Foreign relations and its followed by a one on one conversation between me and Major General Michael Collins. Then well have a larger Panel Discussion that looks at apollo and then also how it can inform the future of space diplomacy. But first, i would like to say thank you for coming to recognize special guests we have here today. The Collins Family and friends. Thank you for joining us. And i would like to introduce you to the George Washington University President , thomas lebunk. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for your introduction and, of course, for your significant contributions and ongoing commitment to space history. Im pleased to welcome you all to our auditorium and to join you for this event celebrating the 50th anniversary of the apollo 11 moon landing. I would especially like to thank our cosponsors, the smithsonian air and space museum and the u. S. State department, and mafor parmgs. It is an honor for us to hear from you this evening. I would also like to recognize gws onlogston, professor of International Affairs at our Elliot School of International Affairs and founder of the gw space policy institute. Founded in 1987, the Institutes Research and integration into a robust Academic Program is one of our universitys most significant contributions to the space field. A world leader in research, graduate study, and informed discussion related to issues of science, technology, and public policy. The institute has developed generations of students, scholars and professionals engaged in space related work in government, industry, and academia. The students and faculty bring deep experience in space policy, law, economics, and history. They are internationally known and respected for their expertise in space policy, history, law and economics, and they routinely consultant with Industry International organizations and, of course, our own government. We value these partnerships and the contributions we can make together, understanding our history, providing research and expertise on current developments, and continuing to prepare future leaders who can help advance our efforts in space well into the future. Please enjoy this evenings discussion. Thank you. Next undersecretary for economic growth, energy and environment from the u. S. State department, keith kruk, will say a few words. Thank you. Its a great honor and privilege for us to be here representing not only the United States but the men of piece of all nations with all interest, curiosity and a vision for the future. These were the few words that the late Neil Armstrong told the president of the United States as he walked on the moon 50 years ago. So as we celebrate this golden anniversary of apollo 11, i humbly stand here today in the same building and youll soon see with Michael Collins, one of the men of apollo 11, and he is an inspiration to us all. As a matter of fact, he was an assistant secretary at the state department, and its great to know we have that neverending bond, that neverending connection that you see with the dedicated team of the great diplomatic core at the state department. I also have something in common with Neil Armstrong. Were both ohio boys, and we went off to purdue to study engineering. Now, i didnt become an astronaut or play one on tv, but i can tell you that space is personal for me. And ever since i was that little 12yearold boy sitting in the living room with my mom and my dad and two sisters with their own tv looking at the black and white snowy images and watching that Neil Armstrong one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind, i just developed a love affair with space. And ive had three really great points of personal connection. The first was my roommate at purdue, one of my roommates in the fraternity house, he ended up going to the shuttle four time. He was an a shuttle four times. Ill never forget, you come in late at night, maybe i was at a party, and he was sitting down at the drawing board. We just switched over from slide rulers to calculators. I go, why are you studying so hard, greg . He goes, well, i want to be an ast ast astronaut. I said, you cant. He said if you work hard enough, you can make it come true. I witnessed his dedication, his discipline, his drive, his intellect and his highend ideals. To me, hes symbolic of the men and women in the aero space industry. I remember after he got one from one of his missions, i said, what its like up there in space. He just said, i never wanted to come down. And he just totally loved it. When an astronaut tells you they dont throw up right when they get there in outer space, hes a liar. My third point is i had the honor of being the chairman of the board of trustees at purdue. And i hosted Neil Armstrong never times. You get to be able to ask him questions and those kind of things. And, you know, such a great hero for all of us. And what he used to say, you know, if he said, hey, youre a hero, he would just someone that away. And hes go, i am and forever will be. White sock, pocket nerdy engineer. The highest award at purdue is the Neil Armstrong award. They have only handed the award out less than a handful of times. He gets up on stage and he goes he looks down the table and goes, sully, we have two awards in common with. One is obviously the Neil Armstrong award. And he goes, the second the people who land in strange places. You know, and thats you know, thats just a little bit of him. But i think my greatest point of personal connection and pride is that my oldest son is a rocket scientist. He is a spacecraft design engineer in the jet propulsion laboratories at nasa. I will never forget going down the jpl the first time i wanted to go see him, and hes just like hes giddy. Hes so excited. He goes, dad, these are the smartest people in the world. These are the greatest engineers in the world. I go, how many levels is it up the professional track. He said, 17. I said, what are you . He said one. Isnt that great . Nowhere to go up. I got a little space envy. You guessed right. Thats why five years ago i actually bought a ticket on Virgin Galactic because i want to go in outer space. I dont know if the guys in the state department are going to let the undersecretary partake in Space Tourism and cut out for a few weeks, but some day im going to do it. And, you know, i cant wait. And im also proud to say that space is such a great priority for our president and he is reinvigorated with Vice President pence, who is chairman of the National Space council. And we have empowered private partners, unleashed americas space industry like never before. And it is now the policy of the United States of america to go back to the moon within five years. And from there to mars and beyond. And just two weeks ago at the state department, along with commerce, we hosted the first Space Enterprise summit where it brought in leaders from all around the world, in private industry and governments. And we are hosting here in washington in october this Years International astronautical congress, which is the premier meeting across the space sector and also to support these objectives. Secretary mike pompeo, appointed major Charles Bolden as our science envoy for space. You will be seeing him a little bit later on. And charlie has spent the last year traveling around the globe. This time earthbased. And i asked him, you know, what does he think about that . He goes flying commercial is overrated. But anyway, hes just done a great job and i really thank him for all the work hes done. And finally, id like to thank our hosts, the panelists that you are about to see, the astronauts here and anybody involved in the space industry. And many, many times, you know, there is a call to the country. And its now. So when we look at the next 50 years, we will get to the moon again and we will stay. And we will go to mars and beyond. Many small steps we will make and many more giants leaps we will take and as fellow human beings whose hopes are bound not by gravity by only by our resolve, may god bless the legacy and the memory of our apollo 11 astronauts and may god continue to bless the United States of america. I thank you all. [ applause ] thank you for your remarks. So now i will share some of the Historical Context of the role of diplomacy within space flight, Space Exploration and the role it plays within project apollo. Im really thrilled to talk to you about this today. This is a topic i have been studying for many years and finishing a book on it. I feel like today is my Research Made flesh, so im very thrilled to be able to share it to you and get a little bit more context. So ill take you back to the spring of 1961. And when kennedy became president that january, the future of human space flight was uncertain. And if anything, the moon looked too costly, too ambitious and not the right goal for the United States Space Program. But it would be a difficult spring for the new president with a host of Foreign Relations challenges. Two of particular relevance to our conversation today. First on april 12th, the soviet union launched the first human into the space. And the first artificial satellite launched in 1957 shocked the world flight. That was a more serious threat to the United States at that moment. And then just a few days later, the news broke that fidel castro defeated the bay of pigs. It was called the worst disaster of a disasterfilled period. And there was an evolution in kennedys thinking. Military ventures were not necessarily going to proceed. Instead, World Problems required another approach. It was the onetwo punch of the flight followed in quick succession by the loss of u. S. Prestige with the bay of pigs invasion that reinforced the notion that soft power had a significant and necessary role to play in u. S. Grand strategy at that moment. That same day, president kennedy asked his Vice President Lyndon Johnson that he wanted an accelerated review of the u. S. Space program. This would be followed shortly by a request to find a Space Program which promises dramatic results in which we could win. And that program would be project apollo. A few weeks later in response, johnson responded to kennedy with these words. And ill read his words because i think theyre very revealing. He said other nations, regardless of their applications of the appreciation of our idealistic values will tend to align themselves with a country with which they believe will be the world leader. And dramatic accomplishments in space are being identified as a major indicator of world leadership. This is a simple formula and it makes the stakes very evident. Space spectaculars were not simply a sparring match. They signalled leadership at a moment when the Political Landscape of the earth was shifting, new countries were being born and power won through political alignment, not armed conflict. Kennedy proposed it to a joint session of congress in may of 1961. And ill let him describe the need for this program in his own words. Finally, if we ought to win the battle that is now going on around the world between freedom and tyranny, the dramatic achievements in space which occurred in recent weeks should have made clear to us all, as did the sputnik in 1957, the impact of this adventure on the minds of men everywhere who are attempting to make a determination of which road they should take. So kennedys argument for apollo becomes pretty clear when you read these words or you hear him speak it. And the impact of space flight on the minds of people around the world and its role within larger geo political alignment should motivate at this time. So project apollo is extremely bold undertaking. The United States had a total of 15 minutes of human space Flight Experience at that point. It required the development of brandnew technology, new techniques, managerial practices, all sorts of things. It was sending humans 240,000 miles to the moon. It would cost at one point over 4 of the federal budget. It was a remarkable investment. And it also initiated a very elaborate Public Diplomacy Campaign Around the world. Throughout the 1960s and the 1970s that focussed on space flight. Here are a few examples that you can see. It was a program on a grand scale. So as engineers built new hardware and the astronauts strained, the u. S. Information agency and state Department Staff created an extensive range of spacethemed exhibit, radio broadcast films, educational programming, pamphlets, books and the list goes on and on. And then well come up to 50 years ago this week and actually on saturday on the evening of july 20th, 1969 as Neil Armstrong and buzz aldrin landed on the moon, guests gathered for an elaborate gala. Live News Coverage played on a dozen television sets. Patrons dined on a spacethemed menu and danced a special dance named after the lunar module. Thousands assembled in public squares to listen to radio coverage of the mission as they watched on large outdoor screens. Hundreds of thousands more yet in seoul and montreal and countless cities and towns throughout the world to witness the Lunar Landing with others. The venezuelan president had a u. S. Diplomat screen space films and designated the day after the landing a national holiday, as did many leaders around the world. On the other side of the world, romanias communist leader deviated from his prepared speech to praise the first lunar landed. He was interrupted periodically from applause by the audience. Power companies throughout the world logged a record breaking upsurge in Energy Connection because of radios and television tuned to the broadcast. More people followed it by anything else in history. Over halfs the worlds population listened to the radio coverage, the Television Broadcast or read about it in the newspaper following the flight. In nations such as japan, upward of 90 of the population watched the coverage of the mission. It really truly captured the attention of the entire world at that moment. Here are a few examples of people following the flight. So when the apollo 11 cruise splashed down on july 24th, president nixon was there to meet them. From the aircraft carrier, he departed on his moon glow tour. This gave him an opportunity to meet with leaders throughout southeast asia, as well as romanian president to discuss u. S. Foreign policy. It also gave him an opportunity to start improving relations with china and north vietnam. And then when he was done with that tour, he asked the apollo 11 crew to travel the world as his cambassadors. I have a clip to show you what that tour was like. Oh, first, sorry, ill give you a sense of their schedule because i really appreciate the kind of energy that it must have been taken to go on this brilliant schedule. Over 20 countries in just over a month. They went to every continent. The returning astronauts are treated as heroes. Their good will tour takes them to 24 countries in 45 days. Through it all, astronauts stress that the achievement doesnt just belong to three men on a rocket. All right. And thats a clip from the smithsonian channel series apollos moon shot. So when they returned from this trip, president nixon asked them to report on their experiences. He thanked them and said his meeting was worth everything the United States spent on the Space Program, which was perhaps an overstatement, but does give you a sense of how this program was being evaluated and its Important Role that it played within u. S. Foreign relations at the time. So very shortly, started a conversation with Major General Michael Collins. But before that, id like to welcome the assistant secretary of state for Global Public affairs. [ applause ] hello. Good evening. I am very pleased to be with all of you here today. I have the very distinct honor of officially welcome Michael Collins to the George Washington university. 50 years ago, our nation and people all around the world tuned in to watch the first images of apollo 11 reaching the moon. Michael collins was on that mission representing the very best of the United States and of humanity. As much a Foreign Relations achievement as a technological marvel, it was a soft powered victory for the United States. The white house, the state department, nasa, the u. S. Information agency all worked very closely together to shine a light on apollo 11 as the americanled global effort that united the world. Voice of america broadcast live coverage of the Lunar Landing in 36 languages for an audience of 750 million and another 650 million watched the Lunar Landing on television. It was the first live global broadcast in history. Clearly, the space dip employee masy mission had been successful. As the doctor stated when he returned from the moon, Major General collins and his crew embarked upon a worldwide tour, visiting more than 20 countries in 37 days as true ambassadors of good will. They built bridges with International Partners that really do continue to this day. After his service with nasa, president nixon appointed Major General collins assistant secretary of state for Public Affairs at the state department to continue his yououtreach to world to strengthen relationships with global partners. That has left every assistant secretary who followed him, myself included, with some very big boots to fill. I am pleased to say i now hold the same position and i am so honored and so humbled to follow in his footsteps. Albeit here on earth and not the moon. There was no better spokesperson for our country than Major General collins. He really represented the best of what we strove for then and still do today, leadership, innovation, International Cooperation and technological and human advancement. Each time i visit the state departments press Briefing Room on the second floor, we have a hallway with paragrahotographs. I stand a little bit taller when i see his photo up there. Being able to meet him and shake his hand today has been one of the best opportunities of my life. My son will be very jealous. I say thank you to Major General collins. We are enormously proud of the legacy you have left at the department of state, on earth and on the moon. We thank you for your service to our country and our world. It is now my deep honor to welcome Major General collins to the stage. Thank you. [ applause ] thank you. So i am so thrilled to be able to speak with you about this diplomatic tour and then also your role in u. S. Foreign relations more generally. And to start things off, id love to hear whether or not when you became an astronauts if you had an impression of the significance of the program and if you were aware of your role as an ambassador for the United States. I wasnt an astronaut until late in life. I was born in rome. My mother was not employed, but she had a mantra, and it was diplomacy is the first line of defense. And i dont hear that much anymore, but the more i think about it, the truer and more important it is. So its an honor for me to be here at the state department and to see some old friends and some many, many new friends who are doing this important work. And now on to your question. Im sorry. You want to know what i thought 50 years ago. And the answer is i have forgotten. But help me out just a little bit, okay . Well, did you expect that you were going to be an ambassador, that you would have a role in supportinglomacy as part of your role . When i was an active duty astronaut, i was more worried about what was going to happen in the next two days. Didnt have didnt have a concept of the entire procedure, the national effort. I was very busy with my daytoday task trying to get a spacecraft down the production line and pass all its hurdles, have it come through flawlessly and learn how to operate it. And those details. So i really wasnt wasnt too cog any sent of the world going on around me. Now, later on, as you pointed out, after the flight, neil, buzz and i were privileged to make this around the world trip. 29 cities, i think. You got that number a little off. I think there were one or two of them that i wanted to forget. No, i didnt say that. But it was an amazing trip. Uhhuh. Wherever we went, i thought people would say, well, you know, americans finally did it good. And instead of that, everywhere, people say, we did it. We humans, humanity finally left this little dinky planet and set foot elsewhere. I had the feeling that was genuine. It wasnt a contrived response on their part. You could see an upwelling. The more they thought about it, the more they got into it. Neil armstrong was our spokesperson and he was amazingly good at that job. If you put him in the spotlight, when it got on him, he knew where he was and what he was doing and he knew exactly what to say. He had done his homework. Well, to back up this, he was not just an astronaut. He had a breadth of knowledge and a lot of interests way off from one corner to the other. He was an amateur historian. Primarily the history of science, but not entirely. When he got to a particular capital, he had done his homework. About that place, he knew some of the local problems, had a feeling for the local kind of ambiance, and he would make a very short, impassioned, but a very short, effective speech. When he was through his five or ten minutes, those people felt like they were ready just to crawl right onboard with us and go on into space. He was remarkable that way. So that was when i first became aware in a small way of some of the ramifications of this thing that we called apollo 11. Once you told me a story about a toast that Neil Armstrong gave mentioning tesla. Im sorry. What . You once told me a story yeah. Yugoslavia. Yes. And i was wondering if you could share that with the audience. Yeah, yeah. Of course the man, the general i think he was called, he ran yugoslavia with, if not an iron hand, close to it. And he hosted a formal dinner for us one night. And his wife was in her own way well known. And as the small talk got smaller and smaller, things kind of slowed down, and i could see madam brose totally frozen. She had picked out a spec maybe on the islands and she was looking at it with all the intensity of well, im not quite sure what. But of one of those monoliths that look out to sea that they keep on the south sea islands. She was doing a good duplicate of that do you know puplication. So things were not well at this dinner. About that same i saw neil go over to his chair and he went over and bent over and started chatting with her just about the distance from here to there. And all of a sudden she brightened up, a big smile, and Marshall Tito noticed. And that changed the entire complexion. From then on, we were all big buddies. The next day i cornered neil and i said, geez, neil, that was kind of odd. What the heck were you talking to her about . I heard you were talking about electricity and the invention of the bulb. And he came right back and said, yes, well, her ancestor was one of the first Nicolai Tesla the reason i erased tesla from my memory is is teslas too much today. So anyway, neil says, oh, Nicolai Tesla, well, she, shes related to him. But that was nothing that had been in our briefing, something that neil had produced on his own. Very well received. And that was the way it was all the way around the world. Are there any other meetings with foreign leaders that stand out in your memory . I know you attended the shaw of irans birthday party. The queen of england. Yes. The queen of england and her husband, prince phillip, i believe. And that was very well, there were a couple reasons. First was we got a briefing. And we were told, you must never turn your back on the queen or the prince. Now, dont worry about it. Theyre very practiced in this sort of an arena and they wont make any awkward moments. Well, we had to ascend the staircase. There went the queen and there went the prince. And you tried to not turn your back on somebody. I got over in the princes side and, god, i really i really like him. I really admired him. I mean, with all the pomp and circumstance of england, great britain, london, the whole kit and ka boodle of it, there he stood with great dignity in a frayed collar. Now, thats my kind of person. I liked him. Sorry. Oh, thats perfect. So i read that in your conversation with queen elizabeth, you mentioned to her that you wish you could bring leaders around the world into space and to see the earth from that perspective to see that there arent political boundaries and also get the sense that the earth should be protected. And i was wondering if you have a sense of why is it so difficult for people to get that optic, to see the earth from space without actually going there or what needs to be communicated about that experience of seeing it from that perspective . I think the thing thats impressive about flying from here to the moon is the closeup look you get of the moon and the far away view you get from of the earth from the earth, the moon thing, on our way to the moon, we had heat problems because of the constant sunlight upon us. So we had to rotate our spacecraft to keep the heat evenly distributed so this didnt boil or this froze. As a consequence, we didnt get to see the moon until we were just practically at the end of our trip to it. And when we rolled out and looked at it, oh, it was an awesome speahere. It really was. It almost looked like he was going to climb into the cockpit with us. It was illuminated by a rim of gold, which made the strangest appearances of the craters and the crater pits, a contrast between the lighter than light and the darker than dark. And, so, as magnificent as that was and as impressive and as much as i will remember that, that was nothing, nothing compared to this other window. And out there, there is this little pea about the size of your thumbnail at arms length, blue plate, very shiny. You get the blue of the ocean, the white of the water. There is a streak of rust that we call continents. Such a beautiful, gorgeous, tiny thing nestled into this black velvet of the rest of the universe. And of the two, that was, to me, the whole show and what i will remember. And i think in terms of what other people may see, think or remember, different ways of looking at it, but i remember one day i said to mission control, hey, houston, ive got the world in my window. I was trying to tell them which way i was pointed. But at the same time i was mesmerized. I had the world in my window. And i dont know why. I knew it was made of rock primarily, third rock out. But beyond that, it projected a feeling of fragility. Why . I dont know. I didnt know then and i dont know now. But on the trip back, i got thinking about that. And lo and behold, thats a very accurate word, if you are limited to one word about what is the earth like. The earth is fragile. And i saw that. When i had the world in my window, somehow that fragility got its way to the forefront, and i remembered it more than some of the other beautiful aspects of it. And as you think about our planet here, the planet earth, fragility is paramount in many, many ways. Its a very important idea that we are on a fragile surface doing things to this fragile surface. That was the world in my window. But thats not an exclusive view or point of view. You all can have the world in your window if you want. I mean, look at what you see. When you think of the world, you think about putting your vision out through a pane of spacecraft glass. You ysee this thing. You understand walking on it daily. Is it fragile . Or lordy, lordy, yes. Can some of those some of those manifestations of fragility be corrected . Yes, they can if we put our mind to it. So the world in my window, thats an important concept to me, and i hope it can become one to you as well. [ applause ] so thank you. So you trained with Neil Armstrong and buzz aldrin for a number of years and you travelled to the moon with them. Was there anything you learned about your crewmates on the diplomatic tour that surprised you or seemed new or did you already know them so well . Well, on our around the world trip, buzz was good. He was okay. I was all right. Neil was really, really good. As i say, neil is very intelligent. He had the ability to see a situation, to understand not the American Point of view, but the ga guatemalan point of view. He was our spokesperson, and he would make a short speech and just have the locals saying, as we found everywhere, we did it. We, humans, finally left this planet, not you, americans, did it. And what is the significance of that sense of we or that sense around the world that it was something that human kind did in terms of u. S. Foreign relations or the relationship between the United States and the world . Well, i think the United States has to be a power in the world, but a very friendly power. And not an overbearing power. And not a power that tries to be dominant. I thought [ applause ] thats state department talk. So where was i about power and the various aspects of that . I think when i saw the United States flag, the American Flag landed on the moon by neil and buzz, i was thrilled and i was very proud to be a citizen of the United States of america. And i continue to be very proud to be a citizen of the usa. On the other hand, that trip around the world kind of changed my opened my vista a little bit. Yes, i wouldnt swap the u. S. For any other place, but i think when were in the business of foreign policy, the technology that goes into a foreign policy, the use of that technology, how it manifests itself and how we treat other countries, i think its important that we try not to be i dont mind being the leader, but not the dominant leader. I think we ought to bend over backwards to have a unified worldwide approach to the things that we are trying to do in space. It may slow us down a little bit in some cases, but im not sure speed is the paramount goal. I think getting the job done and getting it done by all inhabitants is more important. [ applause ] yeah, thank you. I have one more question, and then well invite the rest of the panel out. But i would like you to say a little bit about why you decided to become assistant secretary of the United States and what you did at the state department. When i left nasa, what i in my mind thought about was a clean break. I didnt want to stay within the Space Program because i felt like that would be like a little bit of a demotion. So i wanted to just have that be part of my past. Again, maybe i go back to my heritage, my mother, my father, my father was not a professional diplomat, but his tour in rome i carried things like that with me. And i decided that to do something totally different. And at that time, i was in and out of washington, d. C. And one time, neil, buzz and i were fortunate enough to make speeches to the joint session of congress. And william p. Rogers apparently liked the speech that i made, and he started talking to people here and there, includie ining including the president nixon. And the next thing i know i was offered this job as assistant secretary here, assistant secretary for Public Affairs, which was really strange. I mean, i was my knowledge of Public Affairs was just about zilch. But i liked the time that i spent here. I found that the Foreign Service officers are i dont know how it is today, but they used to be much maligned. You know, they went to cocktail parties and stuff, and that was about it. I had a different take on it. I thought at that time the Foreign Service exam was the most difficult exam, Entrance Exam that the government applied to any of the departments in any of the other services, whatever you had. Toughest one was the Foreign Service exam. People who came into the Foreign Service, i thought were very bright, motivated, hard working, all the good words if you want to pile on someone that you really admire, and i really did admire them. Now, i left fairly quickly, and it wasnt really that i was tired of my job. It was rather a couple of factors. One was the was that i was offered another job equally intriguing and that was to be the director of a new air and space museum, which did not exist. But if we got the money appropriated, we were going to dig a hole in the mall and fill it up with a beautiful museum, which did happen. And the other thing was, you know, i wasnt i didnt really feel i was pulling my weight at the state department. And the object of diplomacy, the end result, i wasnt so good at things that i couldnt touch. You know . How fast can diplomacy go . How high can it go . You know . So i thought it was perhaps time for me to move on when i was offered this other job to be director of the National Space museum, part of the smithsonian. Another important factor was that growing up here as a kid, i loved the smithsonian. I used to spend hours watching nothing. I mean, watching seashells, big ones, slightly smaller ones, baby seashells. There would be like 46 seashells and i would stand there as a tenyearold being mesmerized by it . How do they look all the same . No, theyre all different and so forth. That took me away. So i left i left state and joined the smithsonian. And i stayed at the smithsonian for longer than i worked for nasa, about six years. Our mantra at the at nasa when i was there was a man on the moon by the end of the decade. And then i had a similar mantra at the state department. He was museum on the mall by the buy centennial. So that was our deadline and lo and behold, we opened on july 1th of our 200th year. So i enjoyed that time as well. Wonderful. Thank you. Oh, thank you. [ applause ] thank you. [ applause ] so now im going to welcome the other panelists to join you. Oh, certainly. You can just remain comfortable there. Thank you so much. And ill welcome them up the stage. And you can come and take your seats. [ applause ] hello, john. How are you . Good to see you. This conversation will be moderated by dr. John modston. He founded the Space Institute and is an aher tus professor at George Washington university. Joining him are Major General Charles Bolden, u. S. Science envoy for space and former nasa administrator and Space Shuttle commander as well, as well as dr. Allen. [ applause ] mike, im going to let you sit back and catch your breath a little bit and start with the other two people here. First im going to show off my sock. [ applause ] i just got back from the celebration at the Kennedy Space center, where this was one of the door prizes for one of the dinners. Who else has saturn 5 on their sock . Its probably in the back and you cant see. Let me start with you, charlie. You recently completed a term of duty as the state departments science envoy for space. What does that mean . What did you do . I asked the same thing when i was invited to do that. I said, in fact, i want to thank cedar farrell. She is a career professional States Department person, and she was my planner, my guide, my everything. The two of us trapsed around the world. I said, why am i being asked to become the state Department Science envoy . They said, well, we want to make you the envoy for space, and youre the only guy we can find. But all kidding aside, i was actually brought aboard to spend a year, along with several other people. I think there was six of us this year who went abroad to talk about our particular fields of expertise. Mine being space. We picked four regions of the world, eight Different Countries that we visited in ten months. And i had a threeprong message. And it was the u. S. Is still considered we still consider ourselves to be the leaders in science and technology and anything else you can imagine, but as mike eluded, we need you. We really need partners. We are open for business, and we want as many of you to become a part of what were doing. We want you to be the family of space bearing nations, if at all possible. And if there are students who want to come to our country to see how we live that may change the way that you think about government and governance, we really welcome that. And we visited with students, national leaders, people in government, if they had a space agency visit with them, if not science ministers and then industry. And it was a tremendous time. I came away unbelievably inspired and motivated, to be quite honest. Is the program continuing . The program, we hope, will continue. I probably shouldnt say this, but it started in the Obama Administration and it continues. Good. And it is a tremendous program that the state department runs. Ellen, youre mikes successor how many times removed . Four times removed . Im not so sure how many were between you and i. Anyway, and youre in the midst of re long list of men. Indeed. [ applause ] so lots of the visitors to your museum are not u. S. Citizens. They come from all over the world. Do you view the museum as an restaurant of diplomacy . If so, how do you do it . I really do because as charlie was saying and as mike was saying, space is something that provides international inspiration. When i look out and think about the struggles we face as a global community, things like climate change, to me space is an inspiration to the next generation of innovators and explore explorers. That crosses boundaries. Our visitors come from all over the world. We try to have exhibits that talk about that International Cooperation. And we really want to get that message across. We started with competition in apollo. We have ended up really being an interNational Space community from how we do science to how we do explore nation. Thats an important message. To me its about inspiring. We will have a gallery called one world connected that on a different sort of theme talks about how observing our planet from space and the fact that we can travel with aircraft all around the planet has really changed the view of our own plan planet. Great, great. Quoted a memo that went to john kennedy on may the 8th, 1961 which led to the decision to go to the moon. And i want to quote it also. The memo said it is men not merely machines didnt say women. It is men, not merely machines that captures the imagination of the world. As we look towards space diplomacy now, is it still human space flight that has a special role . You have programs for a lot of the developing countries, surveyor, programs like that that are built around robotic programs and their use. We have kind of animated rovers on mars. I mean, does it have to be human still to really have impact . Is that a question for all of us . Thats a question for all of us. It does not have to be humans. Humans are necessary, i think, because as i tell kids everywhere i go, machines are really good. Computers are really good. Robots are phenomenal. But today robots cant reason and they cant look at the piece of rock and say, they didnt tell me to get that but im going to get that because it looks interesting. I point out to people who has held the imagination of the world between the time that we closed out the shuttle program, although humans have still been orbiting the earth for 18 years now on the interNational Space station, most people of importance dont realize that. Everybody knows about curiosity. The world was i mean, time square, you name it, everybody was there when curiosity landed. Everybody is aware of new horizons going past pluto. Robots have an Important Role in capturing the imagination and helping young people understand they dont have to be an astronauts. They can continue and bring the world together by working with robotics or airplanes or science. You mentioned a lot of people in this audience dont know what surveyor is. Nasa partners with the u. S. Agency for international development. There is offices around the world where we work with local communities to work on problems like climate resilient to say, how can you in your country help solve your problems whether its agriculture, draught . How can you use this data to help address and make your country more resilient. It is an Amazing Program i think is a huge demonstration of the important of space diplomacy. Mike, i know you were recently at the paris air show. I missed the paris air show, yeah. You didnt get to europe at all . No, no. I missed it. I was under too bad. Sorry about that. Any time you dont get to go to paris, its a loss. Oh, that is true. That is certainly true. But i liked your question about people vs. The robots. I mean, like it will be really exciting when we can put some robots up on mars, wont it . Weve already done it, right . Okay. I dont hear now, when you put when you put [ applause ] when you put joe blow and jane doe up on mars, then i think you will see true excitement. That may not be [ applause ] you know, that may not be the way the world should be because charlie points out things that are of more importance than whether it is a machine or whether it is a human being, they each have their place, but the public, i do think, has a special Little Corner in the back of their brain reserved for people who go to these places and i dont think that will change. I mean, you see the reaction you still get 50 years later for having been part of the grand adventure of apollo 11. In my feeling its still something special. There are only 570 humans that have been in orbit, so there is something there that maintains potency and sending a message. You know, theres a panel on space event on space diplomacy. Have we defined space diplomacy . You just did it, charlie. What would you say it is . I think any kind of diplomacy is going out and trying to reach as many people as you can and give them a message of hope, to give them a message of importance, but to let them know what is available to them to inform them of what kinds of things they can do. And i find in working with kids, a kid you cant inspire a kid if they are not informed. When i grew up in columbia, south carolina, and i tell people all the time i grew up thinking that the only engineer i knew was the person in the front end of a train. Right. But that was my that was my culture, my society and i later learned what other engineers were that made things, that took science and turned it into things. So i think diplomacy is helping to inform and then to inspire once weve done that. Its also advancing the interests of this country. It is. So how do you shape that message . You said it at the start, kind of u. S. Is still the country that if you dont believe that your country is the leader, is the greatest country in the world then you probably shouldnt go out to try to be a diplomate. I happened to believe that. I spent 34 years of my life as an active duty marine and i tell people today i now understand the value of soft power and thats what institutions like the department of defense, like the state department, like nasa, i tell people all the time i think nasa is probably this countrys greatest soft power tool because we have a way through things like mike talked about, like people who have done things that attract the interest of the world and make them want to be like us. And when i said i was inspired and motivated as i went through this tenmonth tenure, i was inspired because in spite of everything thats going on here, first thing people ask you ask what the hell are yall doing . And then they say, but we want to be like you. How do we get to the u. S. . How do we get to be a part of nasa . And trying to explain to them that you dont have to be a part of nasa, you can have your own Space Program and then you can collaborate with nasa and cooperate with nasa. The biggest thing is to tell them we are here to help, but we want you to do things on your own and we want you to join the family of space faring nations as soon as you can. Mike, at the start and now you ran an institution called national air and space museum. How do you put the national in the message, in the design of the museum . Or what is itself evident . Well, we tried as hard as we could. I forgot how many square feet of floor space divided into so many galleries and they all i wont say all, but almost all of them had some international importance, as do the marines, as, charlie, i think the marines have got a big job in diplomacy, more than the other services. Thank you. I will accept that. They get out and about and they can do good work. My son is out there somewhere and he will agree with you. Okay. [ applause ] and in putting the air and space museum together, if i understood your question correctly, we tried not to overemphasize, but to emphasize certainly the international things. We had aircraft in there built by de havilland and so on and we did the best we could to even even out the historical but you are still celebrating american accomplishment. What . Its a museum to honor what the United States has done. Yeah, its a national air and space museum, not the world air and space museum. Right. Well, just like with apollo, we hold that collection, but i dont think of it as holding it just for the nation, we hold the apollo collection for the world and we loan artifacts out to museums around the world. To me a big part of it is this inspiration piece, again. Were trying to inspire the next generation and we do it through telling this american story of aviation and space. With the hope that other countries will be impressed and want to join that leadership crowd. Yeah, its inspiration, again, because a kid what more inspires a kid than meeting an astronaut, than thinking about maybe i could invent something that would hang in this museum some day and i think thats its that aweinspired look on a kids face when they walk into the museum and look up at chuck jaegers plane and the lunar module and think this is a story i want to be a part of, and those kids come from all around the world. I think thats one of the great things about the museum, is the icons of american achievement that all can see and all can share. I wrote an article recently about the skilled word crafting of the message that neil and buzz left on the moon. We came in peace for all mankind. Sure. And i think thats still the message. Sure. What about explicitly stemrelated diplomacy . Could this country be doing more to stimulate science, technical, engineering, Mathematics Education around the world, or should we focus on our enginee mathematics, education around the world . Or should we focus on our priorities at home first . In many ways, i think we do better around the world than were doing here at home and we need to focus more on getting our kids interested in siebs technology, engineering, the arts, math and even design topics. I will give kudos to members of the state department. One of the things that impressed me on my travels was with things like the american corner, different ideas that state Department Employees have used to attract students who dont have access to the internet and make it possible for them to come into a place like ethiopia where its packed because they now can join the rest of the nations of the world by using capabilities that are there in the american corner. I would love to see us emulate that here in the United States where we go into some areas that are less fortunate than others and may not have access to the and i know people say, but everywhere in the world has internet. Thats not true, not even here in the u. S. We could do a much better job of getting our kids in less developed parts of the country informed and then engaged and inspired to be a buzz aldrin or a mike collins or a Neil Armstrong or an ellen stofan. Well, i would just add [ applause ] i traveled a lot around the world when i was at nasa. What struck me is inspiring kids in countryings around the world to go into s. T. E. M. Fields is going to help those countries in the long run. Its going to help them build their economies. Its going to help them be more resilient to climate change. To me, its a winwin. As you look back at apollo 11 in 50 years, what do you think was the Biggest International legacy of the mission . Well, i would guess that its somewhere in the world of a vision. I usually say that you want to get away from earth some distance. I dont know, the moon is i think 236,000 miles away. I dont think you have to get maybe 100,000, is that okay . If you could get the political leaders of the world out at that distance and let them look back at their home, hell they cant even find their country. Theres no borders. So if you have a border dispute, well, you have to do Something Else about it. I mean, you cant fight about it. And the idea of this tiny little fragile, again, thing and im hoping theyre going to look at the world in my window and find that its fragile. When you get these guys talking to each other, i think youre going to come out with some very surprising conclusions about anta antipathies. Thats what i hope is the legacy of apollo, is the view from afar. [ applause ] thank you. You have some Closing Remarks because one more piece of the program that wasnt announced yet. I will close with just one comment. Its kind of using what mike just talked about. Hes one of a few people who ever saw our planet from that Vantage Point where you see the blue marble. I was asked earlier about what do i think is the most iconic image from the apollo program. I think the questioner was thinking i was going to Say Something about buzz or neil coming down the ladder or something from apollo 11. I said thats a nobrainer. Its earth from apollo 8. That to me is the most iconic photo for humanity, because it shows our planet as one with no borders, no boundaries, and it gives us the sense of responsibility for preserving that planet the way they saw it back then. Yeah. Its bill land eers who took th photo who says, we came all the way to the moon to discover the earth. I was the capcom for apollo 8 and then of course flew on 11. I can recall this was the first flight to exceed escape velocity. This was the first time humans were leaving their planet and going elsewhere. Apollo 8 in my mind was of extraordinary importance. It was about leaving. Apollo 11 was about arriving. Okay. 100 years from now you put these historians like john. John would have a symposium, a nineday symposium to figure out which of those two is more important. [ laughter ] leaving or arriving. You know, the older i get, the more i get tilted toward apollo 8 rather than apollo 11. I think the concept of outward bound, i think, it was alfred lord tennyson he wrote that in poems. Thats always rung a bell with me, outward bound. Apollo 8 was the epitome of that. Im just going to close with an advertisement, because that was so beautiful. For probably some in this audience who were too young to be around for apollo, we are trying to recreate it for you on the national mall. So if you havent had a chance yet, please come out after 9 30 tonight through saturday night and take a look at the saturn 5 rocket on the washington monument. It is beautiful. It is awe inspiring. I cried when i first saw it. But you cry all the time. He knows me. We got two criers. Two criers. Me too a little bit. Okay. Great. Let me release the panel. Yes. We have a special guest, a surprise guest for all of you. We should go. Ill let genjohn release the panel first. [ applause ] off we go. [ cheers and applause ] thank you. Sorry. [ applause ] so we made this program a little flexible at the end. Theres a gentleman here who had some ideas about the next steps in space diplomacy. So let me bring him on stage. Hes back there schmoozing. Sir . [ laughter ] i dont think he needs an introduction. [ applause ] work from here . No. All right. All yours. So buzz, you are working on some ideas for a next stage in space diplomacy and we thought it was an appropriate way to end a program for you to present those ideas in a few minutes. Weve got to be out of here at 6 30. So my job is to get me out of here. Get you out of here. Yeah, yeah. Well, i missed the plane in huntsville coming up here, so we had to get a private jet. Ah. Were still a little late. Im drawn to the stars, you know. Ill find anyway to get there. You have the ability to talk to people. I havent seen mike in a long time. Yeah. So you have this idea for a strategic space alliance. Well, yes, because to go way back and im sure mike talked a little bit about this, but neils words of a small step, a giant leap. I think a number of us are still waiting for that giant leap. But when we were at a quarantine aft after we came back, air force one, at least we called it that, picked us up and flew from new yo york, a parade to chicago, mayor dailey daley, a parade at century plaza. Mike has one too. Its a president ial medal of freedom. Very top door. [ applause ] but now what happened after that . Well, we changed clothes. Air force one picked us up again. Now we went around the world. Houston to bogota, colombia. Argentina. If you name every stop, we wont get out. I wont. Brazil ma brazil, madrid, london, paris, india, thailand, tokyo, seoul, australia and then back. And i thought when we came back, we had clippings in a big, fat notebook. It was called giant step. We all thought that was pretty appropriate co appropriate. Coming back from doing things out there, we felt that our trip around the world was logically giant step. Well, you know, we went through the apollo sky lab, the shuttle, the station and International Ventures like that. And then it was constellation, back to the moon, journey to mars. Neither of them quite gelled. They didnt quite make it. So now i think and i think the public would like to know what is the next step . Space alliance. This is not just nasa, just the u. S. We have an alliance of nations that need to venture out on this next step, space. And theyre not just space agencies, but if nasa were to try and bring together the commercial guys, the ones that love government money, it would have to be with maybe the Aerospace Corporation as an overall advisor to nasa. You remember, bellcom was in apollo and nobody is right now except congress. So if nasa and esa, russia, jaxa, united space alliance, blue origin. These are all capable entities that can carry out future space. To that list we may add india, a combination of saudi emirates maybe, australia, possibly the kore koreas. So this next Step Space Alliance can be a rallying point for not just return to the moon or going reestablishing a presence, a permanent presence on the moon in a way that logically builds forward to mars, because we make it happen that way. We look at what we might want to do at mars. And then i think well do that at the moon. A little detail is that theres ice crystals at the moon. And with a little power, Nuclear Reactor maybe we get water and water we can separate into Oxygen Hydrogen fuel. Why is everybody focused at mars on methane . Just because there are a bunch of Global Warming guys that want to use up the co2 in the atmosphere on mars . You think thats the reason . Well see. The best fuel, oxygen and Hydrogen High performance, works at the moon, we should work that at mars. You know, i analyze things too deeply. I know you do. Yeah. [ laughter ] you also wear a lot of watches. So i can see what time it is. Were supposed to be done in two minutes. Uhoh. [ laughter ] we could use those in low earth orbit or they could become a part of a transcraft for an add adaptation of gateway transway. Transway goes from low earth orbit to lunar orbit and back again and reuses things, but nothing stays in liunar orbit ad nothing stays in earth orbit. Sure theres a space station, one thats getting older and older. Like us. Costs a lot. Yeah. What we need to do is to form iss laboratories in low earth orbit. Good. With the elements of the gateway. Now, heres where diplomacy comes in. Okay. What is china going to do about this . Well, thats a subject for the next discussion. [ applause ] thank buzz for the efforts he made to get here, but lets honor our sponsors and stick to the timeline. You got it. Bring diesel on and lets exit stage left. Thank you. Okay. Thank you [ cheers and applause ] thank you all. That concludes our program. Thank you so much for coming. I would like to take just some last moments to thank my coorganize coorganizers. The smithsonian teamed up with the u. S. State department and the u. S. Diplomacy center as well as George Washington University Space policy institute. So id like to thank all my colleagues. Theyre too numerous to name but thank you for all your contributions. Id like to reiterate that we will be celebrating the 50th anniversary of apollo 11 over the next few days. Please join us on the mall. Hopefully youll get to participate in them as well. Thank you so much for coming and enjoy your evening. [ applause ] all week were featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan 3. Lectures in history, american artifacts, reel america, the civil war, oral histories, the presidency and special event coverage about our nations history. Enjoy American History tv now and every weekend on cspan 3. And heres a look at our prime time schedule on the cspan networks. Starting at 8 00 on cspan remarks from Richard Trumka on the state of the Labor Movement and involvement in the 2020 elections. On cspan 2 its book tv with authors who have written recent best sellers. On cspan 3 its American History tv with programs on marijuana regulation in the u. S. Labor day weekend on American History tv, saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on lectures in history, a discussion about Abraham Lincoln and native americans. Sunday at 4 00 p. 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The fate of this country and maybe even the world lies in the hands of congress and the United States senate. The senate, conflict and compromise using original interviews, cspans Video Archives and unique accesschamb. Well look at the history and roles of the u. S. Senate. Sunday at 9 00 p. M. Eastern and pacific on cspan. Next, Nixon Administration officials describe events inside the white house in the days before the apollo 11 moon landing. Well hear from two former president ial aides who were in the oval office when president nixon speak to Neil Armstrong and buzz aldrin while they were on the moon. Good