Our stops by going to cspan. Org citiestour . They were very bride wheels compares the careers in leadership start want tof the things i make sure before we go into our , is to thank those of you who have come from other and some of our supporters. One of the people not with us today but is a life member an honorary member of our board is James Robinson junior. He has had some Health Issues but he is recovering and i know he is back on the speaker circuit. Nick who has also had a few Health Issues and not able to travel right now. One of the great collectors, folks who hut is folks connected with the Shenandoah Valley battlefields. Two people who are very has made to me, sarah all of this work behind the scenes. She is constantly making sure that something needs to be done and it gets done. Like that. Meone last but not least, my wife elizabeth. Elizabeth has come down from virginia to join us. Into myill do is move part of the presentation. We are going to talk about the leadership. We focused in the past about various aspects of leadership that included areas outside the late unpleasantness, as we like to say so we do not step on any toes. Issues we wanted to deal with was the civil war leadership we first talked to coach about setting this up, he said i do not mind you talking about anything else but i want something on the civil war. Today, we will pretty much focus on that. We have done different figures and we will do different figures in the future, i am sure, but we will talk today about some civil war leadership. One of the things i thought as i was watching some of the College Baseball regionals that were going on and i have a friend who is a very big baseball fan sitting down here in the front and he and i always talk about baseball. From onete form of the announcers who was talking about the arkansas coach and it made me think about something that has always been a question to me and always been something i have wondered about my own capabilities if i should ever go back in time when i had the responsibility of determining such things. This quote that you see about making sure that you can somehow figure out the right people are and putting them in the right place. That was what was said about the arkansas coach, that he was able to do that. I think about coach dooley and he would be able to identify where the players were who the players were and where to put them. Sometimes you have to place them where they do not want to go. Those individuals might better serve that situation. When i first started my football career, which ended fairly quickly, it ended after high school i did not want to go to college. Back in the day, you did not have nice arthroscopic surgery and you had to have frankenstein stitches. Lessons andme great had some great experiences and it was time to retire. I started in my earliest years as a lineman and a guard and i thought that was nice but i wanted something a little more dramatic. When i went to ask the almighty for physical attributes, i said tall, and he said thats all. So inot a very tall person have to make it up with meanness. One of the things i did was i moved into fullback and i felt like i made a real contribution to our team in doing that and the coach assumed i must be adequate at it because he let me do it. I did, by the way, keep a quarterbacks number to be contrary. Kept the number 11 even though that is a quarterbacks number. I always loved it when i was getting ready to go hit the i wouldck and sometimes hit him low and sometimes i would hit him high. If you ever saw him doing that, you knew you had him. I felt like one of the things i was able to do was identify where i might be long but i am not sure i could do a very good job of figuring out where everybody else should go. I have great admiration for those leaders who have to make decisions about personnel, not ory what personnel to employ to bring them onto the team but also where to put them in a way they will be most effective. I put on one side a baseball field and you can see the Coach Comment from arkansas. On the others is a military structure. Leadership at every level. One of the things we talked onut doing is something sergeant in the civil war. Leadership at so many levels, commission level, noncommissioned level, so many ways all of this gets done. Sometimes you succeed and sometimes you fail and sometimes a person does well in one circumstance but does not do well in another. I have fixed two people. I have picked two people. Horatio gates is the hero of saratoga. Someone who had proven himself on the battlefield. Saratoga is a complicated battle. It does not take place in one simple location. It is a running battle. It set up a number of other things that have to take place along the way. Sent south in the revolutionary theater of the southern part of the conflict, he did not do so well. He was defeated tremendously. He did not translate earlier success and to later success. Again, you might get the right person in the right circumstance at one point and then at another point, you have a time when even the person who has proven themselves does not do so well. I know many of us have heard stories about Joseph Johnston and his reluctance to put himself in a situation where he might fail because he had a reputation for being successful at things like hunting so i take a shot at something he might miss . Thaturse, other generals you can think of from the civil war where they had moments of success and they have the pressure of repeating that success which must be a tremendous problem to have to overcome. He was a war of 1812 general and i put him up here as an illustration that at the beginning of the conflict, you fall back on that triedandtrue individual. The person supposedly has leadership capability and you put them in a situation and you find they may not rise to the occasion. Apocalypse smith got his middle name because he enjoyed reading revelations. After he marched his men off to fight and marched them back to camp after he found out that war is dangerous and one is likely to be harmed. He did that again and again. Andmen surrounded his tent shot into it and he hugged the ground and the bible as he contemplated his future and moved on to other spheres. I think he ended up being a congressman from virginia so you can make of that what you want. If you cannot make it in the battlefield, there is always congress. Apocalypse smith was a real character that had to play out the drama and in this case, leave his position so that someone else could come along. William henry harrison, Andrew Jackson were some of the heroes that emerged in the war of 1812. We are going to talk about a couple of individuals that i wanted to focus on what they brought to the question of leadership and the questions about them that were initially present and had to be overcome. This light is simply want to illustrate that there was a conflict between the war of andes and the civil war choices had to be made. Decisions had to be made and people had to decide where their loyalties lay. Firing on fort sumter, the pressure continued to ratchet up and choices had to be made. One of those choices was made by a man who had already been in the service for quite some time but he was born and raised in his early years in virginia. I know teri is a native of southhampton county. It is funny that george and read thomas, one of the things you get is that you go into george henry thomas, one of the things you get is that you go into the community and say you want to write about him and people say, why do you want to write about that traitor . Point trained. T we know there are other virginians who have the same kind of profile. Not only did thomas work closely lee Robert Ely Robert e but they served in the army together and unfortunately, one of their routines that was very common, especially out on the plains, were courtsmartial and both thomas and lee would go from post to post in texas prior and they will be involved in a number of courtsmartial throughout the state of texas. A lot of movement and activity that put them in close proximity, both virginians, both west pointers. One chooses one path and the other chooses the other. Thomas was born near a town near jerusalem. Family areas and his there. He is not there. Ultimately, he is buried in troy, new york at his wifes families plot. One of the questions about his choice for the south or the north would be what influences he might have and the question of how much his wife might thomas,e him, francis apparently with a strong personality. What he always know should do. Whenever your wife knows you should know what you should do, you know what she wants you to do. He made the choice. He really was comfortable with that choice. He did not feel like the shouldst on either side warrant pressure to do something you did not want to do. His oh two the army hi you have a virginian who makes the choice to go with the union and when he does that, it will color the way others view him. When we talk about where you are going to play someone, what leadership will look at and expect and what your leadership will contribute or exhibit our questions about those intangibles. Andhis case, your birth where you have people from the same country divided infighting amongst themselves. Civil war or a war between the states. That is George Thomas. Nathan bedrock , it comes in different way. Case of forest. I like to use the quote, i never notght of a pin where i did think of a snake. I put a copperhead up there. He was certainly not an articulate individual. He was down to earth. Colorful if st would ever say that he gave instructions that he meant what he said the way he said it. I want you to tell them to fetch the artillery and someone with a little different education might save ring up. If i wanted to say that, i would have said it that way. If you say fetch, they will not think about it. They will do it. His language was designed to accomplish what he wanted to do and to do it efficiently and effectively. There were a lot of questions about whether he could be a leader. He had been a success in many ways in business and in other areas in the prewar period but he was also engaged in some controversial activities, including being a substantial slave trader. You have an individual who does not have the military training, does not have a lot of education. He had about six months of formal education. He has not developed an articulate way of expressing himself or communicating. He would say what he meant and say it the way he meant it. In many ways, he was the kind of person that someone would look at and wonder how effective this person could be. He would go into the war as a private. By the time the war is over, he is a lieutenant general. He is quite successful. Initially, he goes in as a private. He does have friends in high places. Thomas, by the way, typically did not have friends in high places. Plus a reticence to advance himself. One of the things with forrest is that he has to overcome that rough and rudimentary background and overcome the social issues of being a slave trader and other things involved in that aspect of his prewar career. Thomas has questions and forrest has questions and one of the questions will be, how will they be able to overcome these questions and to what degree can they make a contribution that will put those questions to rest . I put a couple of slides here to illustrate some of the ways in which even the highest levels of individuals wanted to employ wait and see kind of attitude in terms of George Thomas, the virginian who sided with the union. He does not have political friends. He does not have friends in the right places in terms of his advancement. In terms of congress or anywhere where he would have some advocate for a person pushing for his advancement. He did have friends in the old army and he did know people. He was a roommate with william sherman. Sherman was one of the people who was hot and cold as far as thomas was concerned. One of his best advocates and friends and one of the people who might have caused him some of the most difficulty. Thomas is one of those folks that it will be sherman who says he may be slow but he is as true as steel. One of the individuals you could count on but at the same time, he did not move with alacrity and the kind of speed that someone like a sherman or Ulysses Grant might want. They did not wage war the same way. The question that this reticence or apparent slow lists slowness was because he was reluctant to wage war against southerners or he was not dedicated to the union. At least some people had that thought. He might be a good person, he is wellregarded, but he is is he the kind of person who would be enthusiastic . Would he be the kind of person you could put forward and expect Great Results because he had the energy and drive to make them happen . One of the key questions, phases,ly in the early and thomas shows some reluctance to advance himself during the kentucky campaign, the question is, ok, if he is reluctant, lets not push that. Maybe there are reasons for that. Let the virginian wait would reflect the spirit of lets see how things pan out before we give him too much responsibility or we start to think he is the kind of general we want in a given place at a given time. Forrest has a different problem. He has educational issues and he has got some background issues, the heritage issues and he also has got a temper. A tendency to let it fly. He was one of those folks who when he got into combat, he turned beet red and grew in size. Almost like the blood vessels pump him up. He took a fearsome look. In battle, that can be intimidating to your opponents. What do you do when you have superiors or colleagues or others you have to work with . Was a questionat of character and temperament, not the least of which were that who does not think not the least of which is Braxton Bragg, who does not think forrest will be effective. I put several individuals, joe dorn thatd earl van forrest will have clashes with. Earl van dorn is a situation in which they both literally draw weapons on each other and the only cooler heads have to step in and calm them both down to keep them from doing damage to each other. Near the end of the war, forrest s men draw down on the troops of Benjamin Franklin cheatham during their retreat from nashville. You would think the last thing you would want to do is to settle issues of southern honor in such a circumstance. That was another indication of it reflected his own ability to assert himself, whatever that might mean. A lot of questions about these individuals that have to be 1862,ed and at least in there are not a lot of clear answers as to where that might be going. Forrest and thomas will both have successes, though, that should have given an indication that they were capable. In the case of thomas, there will be a small action at mill springs in the central part of tennessee. Iddle at any rate, in central kentucky, there will be a fight at mill springs and thomas is going to be successful. It illustrates some of his personality and personal character. I have several images of someone being shot. Is theeone being shot federal confederate commander in the field. He was a newspaper editor and a fiery individual. There was a commander that he answer to up the line but he was the one on the battlefield dressed in long raincoat. He rode into union lines by accident and was killed when he had an aide who did not quietly say, general, those are the enemy. He yelled out, those are the enemy. Andrew attention to it. And drew attention to it. His subordinate fired a shot that hit the Union Commander. His and struck his horse. The fellow that was the Union Commander was a fellow from lexington, kentucky. Lexington, kentucky, we all know it from basketball. Ourof the things they love horses. He orders his men to fire. He does not survive. Rest ofas to wage the the battle trying to drive the confederates back because they came from a well defended position on the Cumberland River to try to attack while thomas and his forces are moving. While they are somewhat divided there is a force that was supposed to come into joint thomas that had not reached the point of doing that. One of the famous illustrations of that moment would be shiloh. The desire to catch the forces when they are not entrenched or prepare. Yet. Are not united the forces are divided. Thomas is in difficult circumstances but instead of being panicked or deciding i have to withdraw to a safer position, he continues to fight, launched a bayonet charge. And drove them back miles to this defensive position. This illustrated a characteristic that is very impressive. When he got to the confederate position, they had the rest of the day after a morning of fighting moving across rough casualties, all the all of the fact that you have to replace officers who have been struck down and troops running out of ammunition. Thomas will follow the confederates to this position and try to position his men so that he can launch what he considers to be the coup de grace. Fighting has, the taken place all for the day and the weather has been her and us. Everything the weather has been horrendous. Thomas decides not to. During the night, the confederates with one paddlewheel steamer will take the entire force across the river one boatload at a time so by the next morning, the troops will be left everybody else is gone across the swollen Cumberland River. Ellis and thomas has been caught in a situation, not not that he feels selfconscious or anything like that, at the situation has not played out the way he anticipated. He thought if he brought up his troops through the night and got everything in good position, the next day you could send in a flag of truce and get the federate to surrender and the battle would be get the confederates to surrender and the battle would be over. The same officer who had his horse shot out from under him was saying to general thomas, why didnt you finish them off last night . Why did you continue this fight last night . It did not dawn on him that if i dont do this today, i might not have the opportunity tomorrow. These will not be leaders who will be perfect in all of the decisions. They will always make the right call. I love sitting with folks in a Football Game or someone else when someone has to make a decision and you have those monday morning quarterbacks who always say, why did he go for it on fourth down . It might be under any circumstance. Where decisions are made. That is the moment you have to. Ake a decision in many ways, thomas was showing, we will carry on but i did not think of it. There is a moment where forrest has to rise to the occasion and make some decisions. We do not have time all day for me to talk, which is a shame but that is the way life goes. One of the things that forrest will exhibit is flexibility. The ability to adapt to a situation as it unfolds. We often talk about the fog of war. Understanding of what a circumstance was and how you figure out what it is and how you are going to react to it. It took a considerable amount of capability to decipher and determine what choice you are going to make. Raidst is going to make a against the force divided into various elements throughout the community and each one of those has to be dealt with in turn. Whatever choice you make, you have to deal with the situation that is not just one force. Would never say flanks. He would say, get them on the ends. Forrest is going to have a great choice to make about what to do. , he realizes that he is waiting behind enemy lines and one of the likely things ist is going to happen opposing forces accumulating against him. Reinforcements are coming. The commands are coming. His staff, some of his best soldiers, they are brave people and it is not a question of courage, begin to see a circumstance they see is rather dangerous and the commander ought to be aware of. They thinkorrest they ought to call it a day. Lets call well enough alone and finish the task. Not comeays, i did here to make half a job of it. I mean to have them all. He is not going to turn tail and run. With bluster, he will convince one part of the federal forces to surrender and use that surrender to convince other commanders to surrender at other locations. Ultimately, he does bag the entire federal force confederate force. On histtle takes place birthday. He was 40 years old when the war unfolded. There are times when things really dont go well. Engagement, and if you want to go to a battlefield that is interpreted well, the battlefield of Parkers Crossroads. It is an interesting fight where forrest is finishing off a very successful raid through west tennessee. Rail lines. Pted his efforts and the efforts by operatingorn, who was those combinations of knocking out the rail lines behind it. Stop behind it will grant. We are talking about ending a campaign, at least on the surface, that looks like it might be decisive in the western theater of the civil war. Ultimately, grant adapts. If you do look at characteristics of grant and characteristics of forrest, you find some strong similarities. Both of them are unfazed. Things can happen that i do not lose their composure. They live to things can happen and they do not lose their composure. Will have one of those circumstances where everything has gone well and then it doesnt. He really depended heavily on his brothers. In this case, william forrest. He will talk about and then there is brother bill. William forrest is going to be them atble for keeping arms length while he handles a force attempting to block him. There is a force in front of him and a force coming in from behind but it is at some distance. If you can capture this front force, you can continue to proceed on and you are crossing and getting into confederate lines safely with a handful of prisoners. The problem is that bill forrest gets on the wrong road and they come in on the right road behind them. He sees the horse holders come racing by. Cavalryre in calvary preferredhow forrest to fight. Forward with those three men in the fourth man will stay with the horses. In this case, there is a grove of trees and they are safely there and everything seems to be ok and then they are not there. They are rushing past and forrest knew that meant trouble. He investigates. He should surrender. He tells them, if you wait right here, i will go back and get the rest of my men and we will all surrender to you. If you go to Parkers Crossroads union you will see two soldiers waiting for forrest to come back. He is not coming back. And rallies his man the forces together and neutralized the front force. Now he wants to stop the force coming in from behind him and slip out in between. And literally lived to fight another day. He does not say that he lost a battle until late in the war. Does not view it that way because he lived to fight another day. By the way, he uses artillery displayingnd ends up fortitude and determination, even in the face of uncertainty and problems. I put a quote appear that indicates his colloquial way of talking about it. He says, i would be well have to get there on time. In this case, and in other cases, he is really going to say, my idea is to get their first the most men and do what i can and if i cant whip them, i get out. Will extract his force and live to fight another day. When you look at hit the strategic the strategic impact, despite his lack of education, despite his lack of military training and despite these other things that you think would be essential to success in the field, he has been very successful with Earl Van Dorn and changed the course. Is also going to show his fortitude in a difficult situation at stones river. The confederates are going to turn on the federals and begin to be pushed back. Thomas is going to hold a central position and be a bulldog in defense. He indicated to sherman that he was always the man to count on if you had to have a person to hold the line. Widelyof the statements quoted for George Thomas, during whenf the night sessions he is trying to assess the. Ituation a multiday battle with a period of quiet in between. It turns out well for the federals. Kon ridge has his attempt breckenridge has his attempt on a flanking maneuver. Ultimately, it is Braxton Bragg who loses the battle. In large measure, it is because of the fortitude and determination of George Thomas. Another place that forrest shows his capabilities, stopping raids. There will be an enemy raid under a kernel named abel straight. Perhaps breakup the railroad causing great disruption and discomfort to the confederate defenders of that region. Forrest going to stop them. Ambushes number of launches,ght including wounding bill forrest. Forrest is a wild man. Killed oneed to have more federal and combat that a number of horses shot out from under him. Means fighting and fighting war means fighting and fighting means killing. This guy is not afraid of much. The only person he was ever afraid of was his brother bill. You can imagine what bill must have been like. When the federals knockout bill, they are doing pretty good. They are knocking out one of the best. What happens is that forrest continues the pressure. I said he did not say we will hit him on the flanks. He would say, we are going to go around them. , heof the things he will do t offattempt to cut streigh that way. That is not how it ends up working out but he is thinking and trying to apply precepts that make sense to him and wants they have worked once, he is the kind of person who will want to do it again. I will not say that all coaches once they make a decision, if you have herschel walker, lets run the ball. If you have a resource, you use your resource. At one point, he says, somebody is telling him about a maneuver and he says, that sounds good, i might have used for that someday. I will put it in the brain and warehouse and bring it out when he wanted it. T down andn streigh convinces him to surrender. But it is not that simple. Just to make a long story short, they are worn out and exhausted. They are asleep, some of them in. Ultimately, some of the men. Ultimately, he has used bluff before. Announcee courage to that troops are arriving that do not exist. He has two light artillery pieces he has been using but he has brought extra horses. Se two artillery pieces you are trying to improve your weition during a truce while are discussing whether we will surrender or not. He says, i will order them back. More. O off and two by the time he is finished, streight says, how many guns do you got . Enough, i reckon i have to do the job with you. He neededed him that to surrender. When streight is told to surrender, he knows you do not show your hand until the card game is over. As the troops stuck their weapons and move away, his men began to emerge. Third as manyas a men as streight does but he did not know that. He looks at him and says, i want my guns back. Lets fight this out like men. , all isly, forrest says fair in love and war. It is more likely and i love to tell the story. Comment by the pie minister of Great Britain at that time by the Prime Minister of Great Britain at that time that when you start to get so emotional, you squeeze your eyes, a little tear just barely comes out. Pips squeak. The eight is starting to get emotional. Himosedly, forrest looks at tears or you those will dry them in hell. To show you the kind of adversary he was, he is part of an attempt to break out and dig prison incape a richmond. A pretty tough character himself. Forrest and thomas have both demonstrated they can be successful. How much does that illustrate the kind of character, the kind of ability, the kind of leadership their superiors will recognize . It is another defeat, unfortunately, that helps to bring out the best in George Thomas. You have the first day of lack of success at stones river, he did not quite do the choice he did he meant to do at mill springs. He has a good record but it is not an exceptional record. This is the moment that causes him to stand out. On the second full day of fighting, the biggest day of fighting, when the men punch through the center of the union troops onrge thomass snodgrass hill. He has already demonstrated that he is a rock, a foundation on which the army can depend. It is this one that will help solidify his longstanding reputation. Of saying, this army cannot retreat. We cannot do that. Illustrating those characteristics you would want in commander in the field. I like this quote that comes out of a letter that reached abraham lincoln. The same man who had said, let the virginian wait. He has decided that the virginian does not need to wait any longer. The fortitude of George Thomas in comparison. Some people wanted to link the two of them, wanted to take George Thomas and William Rosecrans and move them both out. The apocalypse smith versions of disaster. We are going to replace them. Lincoln is coming to George Thomass defense. Theou have any questions of position he took, the stand he made should settle those questions. In many ways, the virginian no longer has to wait. President over the and some of the people initially had doubts or questions. Unfortunately, his ability to also very different from that of grant and thomas. That is going to be a question he will have to try to overcome and not necessarily be able to do so successfully. Lets fastforward to the battles around chattanooga. One of the battles that gives thomas a chance to demonstrate his capabilities, although he is not completely sure of the unfolding of that particular aspect is the battle at Missionary Ridge. Precursor of like the for the ultimate assault on Missionary Ridge. It is not that George Thomas is a question mark with lincoln but with grant, he still has questions. One of the things Ulysses S Grant will come from mississippi to take over in chattanooga and he will want to bring the man he has the greatest confidence in and that is william sherman. He brings sherman with him and sherman is supposed to launch the assault that will break the defensive positions that Braxton Bragg built up at Missionary Ridge. Unfortunately, those of you who have studied the battle will know the typography is a little uncertain and the opponent is decisive, patrick clay burned. Sherman will not be able to make the assault on the confederate right that will break Missionary Ridge. Troops, couldas be almost any aspect to see what will move out of the town between Missionary Ridge and chattanooga. Make an assault against the middle part of that confederate position and the troops do capture the lower earthworks along the base of Missionary Ridge. Fireare still subject to from Missionary Ridge itself because the earthworks are not up against the ridge. They are just out in front of it. Troops firing down on them can hit them so they can either do one of two things or three things. They can stay where they are. They can fall back. Or they can advance. Ultimately, they advance. There are a lot of questions about who gave the order. Whether thomas took any responsibility or no responsibility. Those are questions we can cover another day. They break the lines of Braxton Bragg. Chattanooga is another place that thomas shows fortitude and capability. And yet, beginning to show cracks with that relationship with grant because grant wanted him to make the attack much earlier. Nevertheless, putting bt and grants mind putting doubts in grants mind and those continue to linger. He is going to take the lessons he has learned and apply them very well. It ultimately defeats and drives back the entire union force, capturing substantial parts of it. Does very well. It is probably his greatest moment in the war. Later on, the bad news is that let me set this up a little bit. One of the biggest things that had happened after the battle of ofttanooga, the defeat Braxton Bragg, the move of the war into georgia itself. Ulysses grant moved up to a major position. He is going to have a different role and a different responsibility. His commander in the Atlanta Campaign will be william sherman. It will not be George Thomas. The man he felt best capable and the man who mirrored his notions of what war should be waged. In many ways, thomas is still going to be important because out of the three army juggernaut, he will go towards atlanta, he is in charge of the largest. Unfortunately, for the confederacy, they cannot really , as that advance to atlanta you know if you have watched gone with the wind. Sherman was afraid that one person might make a difference and that person could be nathan forrest. One of the things he did to keep that from being the case was to keep forrest tied up in tennessee and mississippi. Keep him tied up somewhere away from atlanta. It is one of three engagements that forrest is involved with in the summer of 1864. It often kept him away from atlanta. A very dramatic moment, a very successful moment. He will make a raid that catches the supply depot at johnsonville unprepared. He will capture a couple of federal gunboats and borrow them for a short period of time. He is going to do some fantastic things that i think are very dramatic and very powerful but they will not have an impact on sherman or what sherman is doing. They will not change the course of the war. Will come late when the story has closed on atlanta and even with the great success, it will be a success that is somewhat hollow. One of the other successes of campaign of and wants to try to advance against franklin and nashville, is going to be a moment where you see some of the relationships afraid between frayedand thomas a between grant and thomas. Grant wants to replace thomas. Ultimately, thomas does make the assault but it puts thomas in an awkward situation. You have to remember that these folks are human. They feel the stresses and strains. Just because they have had success or have gotten a nickname or know how to fight or have proven themselves, when the president no longer doubts them, it does not mean they will have things they it does not mean they do not have things they have to overcome. He took a lot of pressure from the War Department and grant and the feeling that they do not trust him and they do not believe he is capable of waging a campaign. He expresses that to one of his subordinates, James Harrison wilson. Treating him almost like he was a boy. He had other distractions. Some of those distractions were cavalry. He had to deal with those distractions. Ultimately, he is successful in attacking the lines around nashville. When you look at the end of the day, thomas has been successful ,nd thomas will say, dang it forrest could curse. Thomas is not much of a but he does say hell. Dang it to hell, didnt i tell you we would like them . And ultimately, he was successful in the national campaign. The nashville campaign. Both these individuals demonstrated they could be turned to and accomplish a great deal. One of the comments that forrest s superiors would say is that you were able to accomplish more with less mend than anyone in the war. Thomas would have question marks with grant question but i believent, has shown himself to be what one of the historians of generals of the war, the generals and blue and inerals and gray, warners book on Union Generals, he says he was the thirdbest Union General in the war, in many ways putting grant and sherman ahead. Thomas does prove his worth. Virginiand, did the managed to overcome his nativity support the union cause . It would say yes. Thomas able tos overcome the roughhewn character and lack of temperament he often exhibited, the answer is more often than not yes. Both these men proved they were the right men, often in the right place at the right time. Thank you very much. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] i think we got time for a couple of questions, then we will take our break. You have to come to the mic if you have questions. If you dont, you can come up after and i would be glad to talk to you at any point on the way. Any questions . Everybody wants to get to the food. You can see me anytime. We have silent auction books available. We also have the books available for the speakers in the auxiliary, in the bookstore. If you want books to buy, they have steves latest book and several of mine. We would be happy to sign those theeen the brakes are after program is over. The best speakers are yet to come. Lets take a short break. Learn more about the people and events that shaped the civil war and reconstruction, every saturday at 6 00 p. M. Eastern, only on American History tv here on cspan3. Next on American History tv, university of chicago Political Science professor Austin Carson discusses his book, secret wars covert conflict in international politics. Mr. Carson delves in the way state powers secretly intervene in foreign wars, offering examples from the korean and vietnam wars, and argues that covert participation helps to keep wars contained. The Woodrow WilsonCenter Hosted this onehour event. Mr. Pomeranz its a great pleasure today to welcome back Austin Carson. He also has the distinction of being a title viii scholar. And he has just written a new book, secret wars covert