Most of us went through school and learned about the revolution. This is quite problematic. If you look at the advantages of they had every advantage. They had a modern professional army that had been bottle battle tested. Had a smalls Continental Army that could not really be counted on. The british of the greatest navy in the world. The americans did not have a navy to speak of. We have privateers. Pirates, essentially, we gave the ability to steal and pillage for their pay. Most americans did not support independence. Less than half of continental support independence. Thousands fought for the british. Others wanted to be left alone. Thats not to mention the british soldiers in the native americans. The british have be worlds greatest economy. We had no central bank. We had a very hard time raising money. So, how did we win . Its not that after he got his masters, he served in the United States marine corps and then joined the cia. Today hes a cia Operations Officer. From 1969 to 2003 when he finally retired. He has written other things. He authored astounding fathers of american intelligence and black dispatches. Those are available on these cia website. They are fascinating. I invite you to check them out. He has also written numerous articles for publications with his true name and his pseudonym detailing activities through the end of the civil war, including studies about intelligence and the association of former Intelligence Officers. He is here to talk about his patriots,k, spies, and traders, and american spies in the American Revolutionary war. I would like to introduce him now, wherever he may be there he is. Ken. E join me in welcoming [applause] thank you. Ok, i want to start by telling thewhen you write a book, first thing youre supposed to do is make a business plan. And hopedte the book someone would read it. This is the cover of the book. It was not my choice. Publishers choice. He was correct about it. I thought i will walk around the look, and i am going to and see what teenagers are reading my book. Ive got to tell you i found not one single male or female variance studying the revolutionary activities. Told that the first thing you or ask is why did you write the book. I will tell you why i started writing the book. After there is four or five years you have done everything you can. I decided i would retire and take up a lot of my own personal interests. And aork for about two half weeks. Conclusion when my wife had gone to her studio to work. I found that kitchen was disorganized. Ingredients,nd the plates, glasses. That did not work out too well. I went to work writing a book. Book comes of the from 20 years ago. Was in thes, i management position at the agency. The cold war is over with. We had defeated the soviet is thatbut the issue we aree we always do going to downsize because we dont have any enemies out there. The order came down from Senior Management the budgets were going to be cut and we were going to have to do more with less. That normally strikes fear in the heart of any government employee. The first step was we had to enlarge our facilities. I had to create some new spaces. Luckily i had others. As i talked to others who handled the actual liaison, while the Liaison Services understood we had money, we were very good technically, but had not been in business that long. Understanddnt quite how to handle it, but we had to address this problem. Research ande ended up writing the pamphlet you mentioned, where we identified George Washington as in intelligence, ben franklin in terms of covert , and alsoopaganda counterintelligence. The pamphlet was well received. We put up copies in the liaison room and named him after one of these principal figures. Institutionalized and now is a popular download. That is basically the way this came about. Before the key point behind this book is to look at the revolution from an intelligence point of view. I have a little expertise or knowledge in that area. Revolutionsough the 1783,ng in 1765, new york intelligence and the impact it had, the mistakes made, and how it was done. Rather than review the book for you, the best approach is to thata couple of key issues Everybody Knows about. I guess we have to start with the one principal that is come , and that was George Washington. Was the keyngton consumer for all intelligence during the revolution. Arm, but hes the becausection very much of economies of scale, as one of the key intelligence managers, so he writes specific orders on tradecraft. , inhave the key consumer effect a chief operations it is a and even though small element, the tensions that existed today are the tensions that existed there. Once it is quick as possible, but wants to protect the sources. You see what washington did. Washington ran an incredibly sophisticated operation when you consider who he was and the issues he had to deal with in logistics and strategy. Washington was an expert at what i would say is the most planning. Deception that allowed him to completely full british commanders as to the size of his army and what he planned to do with it. For deception operations you need three key factors that are very hard to put together. Abler one, you have to be to control the information from your side. And often no leaking falsifying internal reporting to Junior Officers so they can inadvertently say what is going on. , double to have sources agents primarily, or people who adversaryly with that a so you know that information is going to the adversarys command, and three, you have to have the sources within the enemy command to know that your message is getting there, but in a way where the emmy believes they are making the decision providing the validation for that information. Pretty sophisticated for a guy busy with a lot of other stuff. Obviously it is not something you learn. Diariesack to his early and find the first time he was sent to the country by the governor virginia to see with the french were doing. He immediately started to hone. Is skills and observation one point he makes in his journal is fascinating. He was kept at a french fort until a commanding officer, come and see him. They knew he was important. He was able to observe and have a good enough memory to write down what the fort looked like, the number of soldiers, the number of canons, et cetera. What did he do in his spare time . He walked up and down the riverbank and counted all the canoes and extrapolated from their exactly what kind of force there could be. Goeset the 1754 when he out, fighting with the french, and is able to use deserters into briefings and spreading disinformation and using them as propaganda value to encourage more desertions. 1755, he is an unofficial aide to a general and refined he is learning about the Operational Security aspects of movements, putting out advanced chirps, and made notmistake he having intelligence for his attacking force. He takes over the army and is already starting to develop intelligence. One of the things we need is Political Organization if youre going to start a revolution. Act, we started to have small groups in the coastal cities who decided they organize politically against that type of taxation. In the course of 10 years, a Group Calling themselves the sons of liberty involved into a United Front Organization a sophisticated as anything we have seen. In most American History texts, the sons of revolution is a character tour character tour dancing drunkenly around the liberty pole. Let me tell you, they were more sophisticated than that. Mid1760s, sam adams, who gets less credit than organizees, started to various individuals calling themselves sons of liberty from massachusetts down to charleston. By the time you get to the mid1770s, this is an organization that has put its. Eople in key leadership frontve a United Organization that started out regardingdea taxation. It is an organization that cannot only put people in the more sophisticated groups that can send a message, you have a propaganda element where the majority of the printers are the members of the sons of liberty and they have established a courier route so within weeks the same perspective on a political event or opposition approach to the administration can come from massachusetts in the southern same message. The addition, you have a paramilitary force. By the time you get to 1773, the british recognized where they dont have military that they have virtually no control. Forces that have been politically led primarily by sons of liberty are at this point making sure they take over the powder, the arms, from the ministerial armaments in the colonies. 1774, you have these forces forming up to stop British Forces from coming back to get these arms or reoccupy a fort. 1775, you have conquered in lexington concorde in lexington. What is interesting about this from an intelligence point of view is that it becomes an Intelligence Organization. Hat is exactly what happened they were able to monitor what the british were doing. Thanks to the committee of safety in boston, the militia knewhe sons of liberty exactly what route the british were going to take to concord. They had earlier set up to go down there, so they only had to find out the timing through an organization they set up, which is the founding of the american Intelligence Organization. It was led operationally by paul revere, but also to other , one being dr. Benjamin church. Was offensiveion and had penetration into the generals command. They not only knew what place was going to be attacked, when the movement started, the exact route that was going to be taken down there and back. This puts an entirely different light on why the british have so many casualties and why these diverse militia groups were able to hone in as well as they were. I always say if you want to connect something to modern affairs, lets look at what another former Intelligence Officer did, vladimir putin, in crimea. Wasou want to see how he able to shut off the greater crimeaent of ukraine to you just have to look at the sons of liberty. Many othernd examples of that in the book that you see still going on today. Now, the second thing i would like to talk about is the covert Action Campaign we dont give enough credit to. Started, theflict colonial forces actually found little in the way of logistics. In the colonies there was virtually no capability to create gunpowder. Very little capability to create firearms, canons, or heavy artillery. They found they needed that. How do you handle Something Like that if you are a revolution or organization . You create a covert Action Campaign, which is what was done with the assistance of france. This started on a dark and 1775, night in december, Carpenters Hall philadelphia was Benjamin Franklin, the head of the newly created condo Congress Committee called the committee that secret correspondence met with an individual traveling as a flemish merchant who in reality was a secret agent from the king of france. 1775,lking december, during the course of three nights, they discussed what help france would provide, in the americans promise to things. Number one, we will declare political independence from great britain. We will defeat the british army. What was the result . The creation of a company that was phenomenal. Individual whon was named the barber of seville and the marriage of figaro. He actually was a secret agent operating for the king of france. Companym, he created a that by 1778 at 100 sailing ships that delivered hundreds of tons of gunpowder, weapons, cannons, other military supplies to allow the Continental Army to exist. ,ithout these military supplies it was doubtful washington could have been able to fight as long as he had. At the bunker hill, for example, before the ship started rolling in, they had two shots per person. By the time you get to december of 1776, a very crucial time, they are down to about three shots per person but a much smaller army, probably 3000 people. A very important asset here. Three people connected with the interests of enough or of course Benjamin Franklin who at that point became the diplomatic head of the paris commission, u. S. His first diplomatic session of rock over interest. And, of course, beaumarchais, operating behind the scenes under an Alias Company and then thirdly a german named Robert Morrison in philadelphia was in the revolution. It was his job to get to the colonies to reduce the agriculture products that could be sent back to europe to repay the various loans. Now, there is a very famous cartoon, political cartoon. I think it was from the Chicago Tribune but are not absolute sure. It mightve been in the newspaper, had to do with world war i when blackjack pershing made the famous line loss yet come we are here, meaning we are returning the favor of what you helped us are in the revolution. And its a beautiful drawing. Then it turns all around because we know what happens, he decides to move across the delaware and attack trenton and attack princeton, two major victories that turns the morale of the army around, because of the colonies to resupply him with , ands, to actually sign on you see supplies coming. It allows him to have a safe winter. Why did that all happen . Because of intelligence. It happened because he knew the order of battle, who was sitting in princeton. Regiment, that had fought from long island through manhattan and new jersey. He knew they were a battle thatd group, but also new they had been in constant combat for five months. He knew that the new jersey militia had him surrounded a and hinder their efforts at logistics, constantly attacked their outposts and kept sincen guard all the time they establish their position at princeton. A lot about the colonel, primarily from one individual. Him and was a spy for tellngton and was able to him that he was a strong prussian character with no respect for the soldier whatsoever. His famous quote is if the americans are full enough to attack, we will propel them with our bayonets. He also drank a little bit. Hear that thewill troops were drunk. Washington was able to have a great victory at a crucial time because he truly understood the enemy and the weakness of the enemy. Same thing is true with princeton as well, thanks to crucial debriefing of deserters, his knowledge of trips as ableeton, and the spy was to tell him the defensive positions around princeton in the one unguarded area where the british had not put up a defense. Washington was unable to take princeton, another victory, more morale, more troops, at a very crucial time in our history. He ins it all up with an excellent deception plan that causes the british to believe his army is four times bigger than it is. That is a classic deception plan. Or taking the same troops, and as british prisoners were being exchanged, have them pass bite where troops with different flags or marched in circles. Or lighting up certain buildings to indicate occupancy that is in himr, all of which saves 1776 to 1777. Finally, let me Say Something about yorktown. Yorktown and how important that was. What we seldom dwell on is that yorktown was made possible because of the strong deception plan that washington used or some nine months against the british commander and in new york, making him believe that the French Forces and American Forces were meeting above new york, that their intent was to attack new york city, which kept clinton from reinforcing cornwallis in the tidewater area. And the book goes into some detail as to exactly the sources he used, some of whom were some of his most valuable intelligence sources because they were individuals the british had recruited three and four years, and actually used as couriers to carry their command instructions up to canada and down to the south. So he was willing to use some of his best collection capabilities at this point for the deception operation. It was obviously extremely effective, but we never hear much about that. What we hear about is how cornwallis was defeated. And it was due primarily to the deception plan that kept clinton believing that new york was the target until all of the american and most of the French Forces have actually moved south to the city. And at that point is too late because the french fleet had effectively blocked off the tidewater. Now, ive had to also say a couple words about the two people that we always associate with spine in the revolutionary war. If you know anything about the revolution were, if you read any book on it whether its a biography or an actual book on the war, if you look under spies , you will probably find two names. You will find nathan hale and youll find benedict arnold. But the truth of the matter is most of what we know about nathan hale is frankly a myth, created primarily in the early 19th century. From an intelligence point of view, the one thing to know about nathan hale is if you want to run a good intelligence operation from selecting an agent to having an objective to how you train to how you use communication, just to everything opposite than what was done with nathan hale. He was a very brave man. He deserves a lot of respect for being willing to die for his country, but he was an incredibly poor choice for his job. Ill give you one prime example. This was a man who did not believe in telling a lie. Let me tell you, you dont want an intelligence agent behind enemy lines who is not willing to tell a lie because it doesnt work out very well. And also with all his faults and how badly the operation was structured, and i frankly blame washington for this in the book because he had the ultimate responsibility, it turned out that the reason he was caught was not inherently because of the mistakes that were made. Its because the british had a better counterIntelligence Officer working against them, an individual named robert rogers, who some of you might remember as the head of rogers rangers in the french and indian war. Second one, benedict arnold. Benedict arnold is a very interesting figure because theres still people today who say well, he was a hero at a certain given point and weve got to give them some latitude. He was really harassed by the Continental Congress. The politics of this were really bad. He paid out of his own pocket and wasnt reimbursed. Some of this is true although it happened to many of the people and they did not become traitors. But when you analyze this strictly from an intelligence point of view, as i did in the book, you find that as opposed to this being a huge blow to the american cause, in reality, it biggest blunders that intelligence made, because they handled him so bad. His volunteering effort was almost put aside for other things. He was not vetted before. All because the officer handling him was a staff officer much more attuned to handling the than thesponsibilities intelligence aspects of it. Arnold been properly handled and kept in place, the damage he could have done to the revolution at that point may not have changed the course of the war, but would have definitely changed the course of negotiations which led to peace. I honestly believe as you can look at the revolution from a political point of view or a leadership point of view or an economic point of view, ive actually read books that look at it from a marxist point of view, that adding the intelligence overlay allows the individual to take a much better look at why things happen the way they did. I think its been to a large degree ignored except perhaps in four of five books since the 1940s. Thats it. [applause] thank you. , on . And, on . On . M i thank you. Now we will have the opportunity to ask questions. After the question and answer signinghe will be books. We certainly have a pretty significant supply of these books. He will be signing them later on, but first, opening it up wait for the microphone please. For any questions. Wait for the microphone please. That way we can pick it up on the camera. My question is actually not directly related to the book itself, but im just curious, as most people are, im sure, touring the museum and we know most cia agents are spies who are kinda signed, but then every now and then you hear people say oh, i retired from the cia. So are they supposed to know that they work in a cia or not everybody is a spy and the cia knows . So i dont know what the differences. Are we supposed to know or not . When you on active duty, if youre an Operations Officer you r connection with the agency is not made public in most cases. Misconstrued. A spy is someone who has access to information of value to the cia. Normally a cia officers job is to recruit and effectively manage and collect reporting from what you would call spies, someone who actually has the access. So when they see a person first himself as a spy or herself as a wonder whate to they were thinking when they did. I dont know. Im sorry, that would be whole course in itself. [laughter] we went toonder when world war ii and helped the french against nazi germany, do you think that we felt indebted to the french on some level because of their help to was us over the revolutionary war . I think we probably repaid that debt after world war i with the horrible bloodshed and the amount of money that we poured into it. I think at the point of world war ii that it was simply the need of a strong ally president a vastly superior german army at the time. Thank you very much. Thank you. You made a brief mention, of course this is a brief talk, and i havedividual long wondered why there is a statue of nation hale at the cia , who failed, and not one of townsend, who was a great success. Andre, whontioned was a fascinating man, i believe, i have written about them. And on his tomb at westminster not westminster, yeah, westminster, the king had a what dond lengthy you call it . Epitaph . Yeah, epitaph. Thank you which includes the phrase that he showed too much zeal, which, of course, is what killed him and what destroyed their chance to have arnold as a longterm asset. Exactly. I agree with you. I often wonder we have nathan hale there. There is a statue outside of the auditorium between the Main Building and the auditorium at the cia had course of nathan hill. The type of statue c in places all around the u. S. , the heroic pose of an individual. Matter is nothe one had any idea what nathan hale looked like. Another part of the entire myth. But he deserves credit because he was more than willing to die for his country. The culprits of course has got a renewed interest because of the amc series turn, and a book that is a historical fiction book called the secret six that is able to play out characterizations of little bit better because theyre able to a fictional approach to it. The issue of spying on allied powers has currently surfaced. Im wondering during the revolution where there espionage operations against our french allies . By the british and irish, the british didnt excellent job of penetrating the french government and also penetrating spying on the french . No. We are too busy basically hanging on. There was, however, one well, in paris the french government obviously watched the commissioners very carefully, and there is reporting on that. But in the army itself one of the foreign contractors, and interesting point, they started a tradition that today people seem to think just started during one of the gulf wars , which was the hiring of contractors to serve in the u. S. Army. The Continental Congress hired a lot of Foreign Military officers in specialized fields like engineering and artillery because their expertise didnt exist in america. Actuallyose officers, a french spy, died gallantly leading maryland troops, but he reported back privately his view of how the war was going to the something anment, military attache would do today who is attached to a foreign government. In my previous experience, the National Interests of various countries are always different. So consequently it was always good for policymakers to know what somebody elses agenda is. My understanding is that spying was not a very gentlemanly thing to do in the 18th century. And whats interesting about nathan hale is he was a gentleman. And i believe that his friends try to talk you out of taking on this mission because it wasnt a very gentlemanly thing to be a spy. And i wonder if you might talk about that a little bit and if George Washington had any feelings about that . He did. Thats a very good point. The first individual selected by colonel knowlton and colonel knowltons rangers, which the army claimed to be the First MilitaryIntelligence Group , which is the reason their insignias 1775 on it, that was the group that washington asked to select someone to go behind the enemy lines in new york. The first individual that knowlton wanted to do this job refuse for exactly the reason you said. He said no, im a gentleman. Youre right, many of nathan hales friends did try to talk him out of accepting it because it was not considered gentlemanly. The comment in is very interesting and goes back to what was being said. While the war was going on, washington was fairly generous with his money, even more generous with his advice on how this very complex espionage ring in new york was supposed to be run, known as the culpepper ring. Right after the war was over, and i note in my book the absolute truth that after the war, the infantryman and intelligence agents is really considered a much less friend light then they are during the war. He writes very tellingly, now i i not sure of all the money i spent on culpepper was worthwhile. Truth of the matter it was. But for exactly that reason because washington also was a gentleman and im not suggesting that townsend wasnt or anything like that, but youre right, that concept that it is beneath me to spy. I think frankly today it is. Till true now, this is directed towards the french. In the world wars, do you think if we would and have cried out for french to help us, do you think the wars would have gone quicker and more swiftly . The french government was in a position where they were not adequately prepared to actually declare war on the british until after the battle of saratoga, where the American Forces proved they were Strong Enough to defeat an army in the field. And it was really touch and go. I mean, we came so close to dissipating totally as an army that it is remarkable. Fascinating aspect of saratoga is historians estimate that 80 of the gunpowder used by american troops during the comprised theat onetoga Campaign Came from company. That allowed Benjamin Franklin to use some propaganda and other aspects. The french crown had actually turned over its armament by selling off its old armament for shipment to the u. S. To the point it was able to take on great britain, along with spain. In from youd jump talked about the fact that so long ago, you have sources, methods, and on the other hand being so long ago, documentary evidence is problematic, certainly when we talk about intelligence. What i have heard about intelligence comes from after the war was washington is billing the Continental Congress. How difficult was it to come up with the actual evidence for writing this book . Time in between makes the documents difficult to come up with. The primary difficult is documents are old and the government tried to read the spelling of someone in the 18th century, god help you. Washington is good about protecting sources and methods, however, occasionally he wouldst in the case of the ring, a lot slip. In the case of the ring, a lot of subsequent documents were found in the papers of certain individuals involved, some of his staff people. Records,in the pension because by the 1830s, you found extensive pension records explaining what they did during war and the justifications that involved officers affirmations of their actions. , and is one individual this speaks to your point, a guy who was one of washingtons very good Intelligence Officers on several occasions, not only philadelphia, but stony point that allowedsance for bayonet charge to take that place. Are reallycuments fascinating because this was a very disorganized guy. When he had a thought, he would take whatever piece of paper he had and write down what he thought, so you would have a bill for a horse dated one time and on the back something written such as, arnold is involved with the brits, but you would have no idea what he wrote , whether they read it before or after the fact because he had written it on the back of a piece of paper. In the case of general greene where i have done original research, i went through his 26 volumes of correspondence and went back and looked at some of their correspondence. Thats why it took 20 years, i think. [laughter] where the military spies that were british, was there any other reason other than greed they were spying for americans . We have to be careful because everyone was british until july. It is not fair to call someone who is loyal to the crown the spy. Very few examples of high level spies within the american structure. Benjamin church is the best example, and he is a nasty spy. He did it simply for the money. He was one of the leaders of the first Intelligence Organization. He haveidnt mention is the first Intelligence Organization penetrated, but it put him in a fascinating situation because if he arrested all the leaders of the mechanics, then other committees would set up another group and he would not know who they were, so it is a prime you constantly you have, the devil you know versus the devil you dont know, deciding to arrest people as opposed to monitoring what they are doing. After we were supplied by this French Company for two years, did we find a way of making our own guns . Did that companies to keep supplying us . After 1778 in the formal alliance with france, french warships could then escort, transport, bringing military supplies in. Before then it had to be covertly, clandestinely through harbor instances are often through caribbean islands or things like that. Once the weight of the French Military could come to play, it was an entirely different deal. But we never got to the point where we could produce gunpowder or arms in any sizable number. That goes to the war of 1812 for that matter. Welp please join me again International Spy at the museum, thinking kenneth for taking time to talk about his book today. And hell be in the back sign it if you want to ask any for the question we want to purchase the book and have inside for you. He is available for the. So thank you again. [applause] announcer history bookshelf features the bestknown American History writers of the past decade talking about the books. You can watch our weekly series at every saturday at 4 00 p. M. Eastern here on American History tv on cspan3. This Holiday Weekend on American History tv, tonight at 10 00 p. M. Eastern, the 1970 , a july 4 america Day Celebration at the National Mall that featured bob hope and billy graham. We dont sweep our sins under the rug. Racial tensions exist, the whole world knows about it. And sunday at 6 00 p. M. Eastern on american thefacts, the petrillo of soviet cavalry officer and discusses the soviet unions role in world or two. World war ii. One month before dday, we had occupied 65 of the best of german troops fighting as. If we had not done that in we had failed to muster our forces from all those troops could well have been on the normandy beaches and it couldve been in a different outcome. The story that has to be told is that is a significant contribution to winning the war. Announcer watch on American History tv on cspan3. Next on the presidency, editor of the papers of Dwight David Eisenhower talks about the evolution of his leadership style from a west point cadet to president of the United States. The Kansas City Public Library hosted this program