A conversation about his career and unique approach to image making. Good evening. Welcome to a conversation between photographer David Leventhal and our senior curator of contemporary interpretation, joanna marsh. It is always a treat to hear from an artist and i can tell you that david is a great storyteller. We are in for a delightful evening. I also wanted to pause and not only recognize david but his family who has come from far away, from utah and california, nephews, sisters, please join be me in welcoming david and his family. [applause] after this program, i invite all of you to join us for the reception for the celebratory opening of american myth in David Leventhal photographs. For those of you who do not know me, i have the pleasure as serving as the director here at the Smithsonian American Art Museum and also our branch museum, the renwick gallery. Very often i hear from people, once i introduced myself as the director, whats on view . Im always happy to share that news and the exciting programs and exhibitions we have going on, but it is truly the curious questioner who says why. Why this exhibition . Why now . Im going to let you in on a secret. Why do we have this special exhibition at this moment in time . It all began with a gift. Actually, two or three gifts now that i count it. In 2017 and 2018, we received remarkably generous gifts of large bodies of David Leventhals work. One comes from donald rosenfeld, whos here with us tonight, so please join me in thanking him for his generosity. [applause] the other donor has chosen to remain anonymous, but could be sitting next to you. [laughter] these generous gifts, totaling some 500 works, really put us in a very special position at the Smithsonian American Art Museum, as one of the preeminent depositories of his work. The next gift i wanted to share with you is davids gift. Once he realized that we would have such a meaningful body of work here at the nations capital, he thought about his own collection, in this case not the toys, although i would love to have the toys, but rather his journals, his papers, his notes, and that goes to our sister institution, the american archives. The archives of american art. Thats worth clapping for, too. [laughter] as you may know, the archives is the worlds preeminent and most widely used Research Center , with the focus on collecting, preserving, and providing access to primary sources that document the history of the visual arts in america. Those of you who really know this building well, know there is a separate gallery dedicated to sharing some of their treasures. Its always wonderful when we can have deep holding of an artist work and important archival materials. For anyone who in the future wants to understand and fully delve into the creative world that David Leventhal has created, you have to come here to the smithsonian american art , museum, and also using the resources of the archives of american art. Please know we are honored to be entrusted with these treasures. And as the keepers of the largest and most Inclusive Collection of american art in the world, totaling some 44,000 works of art and counting, we have a sacred duty also to collect artists, seminole american artists, photographers, painters, this gives us a unique insight into the work of artists who have played such an Important Role in the life of our cultural community, inspiring other artists. David, as you will hear, was bynt toward mentored walker evans as a very young man. And i know he is an inspiration to many others. Here at the museum, we explore ways that images, both perpetuate and question stereotypes in american life. This exhibition, in particular, invites you to look closely at what seem at first to be very familiar images, but then i hope you will look longer and find the intriguing, and maybe even the questionable parts of the exhibition. And the individual works, which are grouped in various themes. One of my duties and pleasures is to thank the supporters of this exhibition. Edgarre the marjorie and fund the william , and christine raglan family endowment, and the bernie statement endowment fund. I would happy for you to hear me say your name from the podium. You simply need to be a supporter for one of our projects. Please join me in thanking joanna marsh and her colleague Melissa Henderson in gathering work presented at 40 or career 40 year career of a remarkable artist. [applause] what may seem usual to you is unusual, in the sense that most photographers capture the outside world. They document what we see and experience. It is the unusual artist, a group of artists that david is leading among, who focus on the interior world that they have composed. Magically created landscapes, environments, historical moments, influenced by pop culture, by mass media, and by memories. And they all offer us an insight into the world that we live in, and what we call the american identity. Ever shifting, everincreasing, as we tell ourselves and future generations those founding stories, sometimes founding myths, of what it means to be truly american. I also remind you that photography helps people see the world. What i appreciate about David Leventhal is that he helps us see america in a powerful way. Without further ado, i think you want to hear from the artist and joanna marsh, are very talented curator. Im going to invite joanna marsh now to the podium. Thank you for being here tonight. [applause] thank you, stephanie. And thank you everyone for being here this evening. I have a few housekeeping items to run through before introducing tonights program and bringing david to the stage. I know thats why everyone is really here. First, there will be a 15 minute period, and answer following the conversation. We have invited guests, all of you, to write questions on cards at the conclusion of our conversation. You will pass the cards toward the aisle and my colleagues will collect them and hand them to me on the stage. We will also have a reception in our courtyard following the program tonight, and we invite all of you to be there with us. Next, i would like to echo the thanks to our donors and acknowledge a few other people who worked closely with me on this project. From David Levinthals studio, those who attended the countless details and questions from me and my colleagues. David rosenfeld, one of our donors. Exhibit designer sarah gray, and Graphic Designer daniel phillips, lighting designer Scott Rosenfeld who made the gallery shine. Paper conservator kate mainer. Our frame specialist tom area and, and barton kotler, who prepared all of the work for review. My interpretation team, stephanie mentioned Melissa Hendrickson and showalter and kelly skeen, who are thought partners on this project from its inception, and who helped craft the dynamic interpretive materials that are on view in the galleries. And of course, David Levinthal, who has been the most gracious artistic partner on this project that a curator could ever wish for. Thank you, david. So, with that, it seems fitting that we are gathered tonight on the heels of the 75th anniversary of dday to talk about an exhibition that focuses on how Historic Events and iconic cultural subjects are collectively remembered and mythologized. It is doubly fitting, because David Levinthals first major photographic series focused on events of world war ii. Specifically, hitlers invasion of the soviet union. The project titled hitler moves east was a collaboration with a friend and former classmate, gary trudeau. They employed toy soldiers and constructed sets to stage the track by hitlers troops into the former soviet union between 1941 and 1943. The sepia toned images, i might you see here but you dont see them. I might need some help. Really . Ok. Im going to keep talking. Sepia toned images were published in the book you see here, in 1977, and set the stage for the now decades long preoccupation with history, memory, and myth. The photographs provoked questions that still hover over David Levinthals work. What am i looking at . , what am i looking at, really . [laughter] ok, hi. Thanks. Are these actually human beings . Hours were spent studying archival battle footage. It was equally inspired by their experience of the war. How the war was passed down to them through film, novels, plays, poems, and even toys. His subsequent bodies of work are equally informed by various visual culture, from film noir if i can do this right, got it to televised westerns, photojournalism, and 19thcentury painting. At the same time, his photographs explore and critique these various forms of visual culture. Influencedculture the way we experience, understand, and collectively remember people, objects, and events. Innovative practice of using toys to surface deeply rooted societal ideas and assumptions invites us to look more closely at what we think we know about these subjects, and what they say about who we are. It is now my pleasure to invite David Leventhal to the stage. [applause] ok, hi. David hi. Before we begin, i want to thank you and everyone at the museum who have worked incredibly hard. Joanne and i started working on this back in 2013. And it has been a long, but wonderful process. I love your title about myth and memory. However, now that i have just turned 70, i thought we could add a question mark after memory. [laughter] but i am delighted to be here, and honored and thrilled to have this exhibition at the smithsonian. Thank you, david. David jokes about his memory, but in fact he is not just a terrific visual storyteller, but also a great storyteller verbally. And i hope you will share some tonight. First of all, what is appealing about photographing toys . Why toys . David well, i think i gave you a glib answer earlier by saying that they always show up for work and they dont talk back. [laughter] was particularly true of the barbie series. You never had to worry about them gallivanting around studio 54 and coming in not being able to stand up. Part of it is my own personal history. Playing with toy soldiers. There areerful wonderful photographs you included in the exhibition in the process area that my sister found when we were going through my grandmothers things many years ago. It took me lying on the floor playing with these beautiful germanmade cowboy and indian figures. I think that was the beginning of a Long Association i have with toys. I think one of the things you do when youre playing with toys is you imagine a world they are in, that has always stayed with me. To become anded artist. 1966ered stanford in wanting to become a constitutional lawyer. I will tell a short story about how parents are trying to do the best for you, and things actually work out for the best, but totally not what they were planning. Week whenreq everyone else was running around getting drunk and doing other things, i was sitting down with the head of the poly side partment, who was poly the department, who was a friend of my parents. Hisaid h i should take class in the spring because i was so brilliant. It ended up being a class that was mostly for sophomores and juniors and held in a big auditorium, bigger than this. What really convinced me was polysci was not for me eight or nine books we were to read about local elections in small hamlets throughout new england. Those who may have gone to school around that time may have remembered. I believe i read two pamphlets into books. The class was the most pedantic exercise i ever encountered in my four years in stanford. Exam iber on the final poured all of my knowledge from those two books into pamphlets and theand got a b comment, wish you could have elaborated more on this. Me too. That was the end of my polysci career. I eventually found myself to making films. Very briefly as a classics major, which was odd for some of who did not take latin in high school, but thats a whole other story. I discovered photography at something called the Free University. You have to remember, this is the mid 60s, the bay area. The Free University was a totally unstructured environment where anyone could teach a course about anything. The nobel winning physicist William Shockley taught about the genetic inferiority of africanamericans. There was also a course, which probably would have changed my life if i had any idea what it , tantric yoga and lsd. Would haverold i run right to that class if i had any idea what was involved. [laughter] david but i ended up taking a photography class because the person teaching it, a graduate someonein biology, was that my sister knew even though she was younger than i am. And i thought dwight was the coolest guy in the world. Every time i saw dwight there were always two beautiful women with him. This is, despite the fact that he was married to the sister of one of my best friends from high school. But that is a whole it was the 60s. So i showed up to the first and only class, which happened at somebodys home. Dwight showed me how to develop film and make a print. And i continued hanging out and working with him. The class never met after that, they were mostly grad students in the sciences. And that is where i developed my passion for photography. Barry fortuitously very fortuitously, there was no photography taught at stanford. And i say fortuitously, because it made me seek out my own education. One of the people, Ruth Bernhardt, one of the two great figures in photography. She was part of the 1964 group westonsell adams, edward group. She ran out of her home in San Francisco on green street the Ruth Bernhardt school of photography. I went there and took classes. I think the fact that everything was done as an extracurricular activity meant that i had to really want to do it. I think that was a great benefit to me. Now, of course, stanford has an mfa program. I think it really tested my interest and my desire. Joanna im curious. Since youre talking about teachers, and stephanie and her opening remarks mentioned walker evans. After graduating from stanford you went on to Yale University school of art where you studied under walker evans. You began to develop a style that could not have been farther from the documentary style of evans work. I was curious what that transition was like. How he continued to mentor you, despite you going in a very different direction . David walker was a very interesting man. Along with one of his proteges, William Chris and barry enberry, who is very wellknown known in the , walker loved talking about french literature. He did not have much interest in talking about photography. He had gone to paris as a young man and wanted to be a writer. It was only subsequently that he delved into photography. So, i had the seminar with walker, and knew him. I got to know him more because one of my classmates, jerry thompson, ended up printing for walker, and taking care of him in the last few years of his life. And jerry was magnificent and a fastidious printer. He told this great story. He was out at walkers home making some prints. Walker came in, saw this print in the garbage, and starts to pull it out and get a pen and sign it. And he says this will be fine for that woman in fairfield. Jerry took it out of his hands and said im going to make a good print. I think it was i mean, i went because ofcifically walker evans. I looked at his photographs. Being able to study with somebody of that significance i felt was something i really wanted to do. Because when i was applying for teaching jobs back ofthe day when letters recommendation were confidential, i had met these people from the university of kansas and was applying for a job there. When i got my portfolio returned without an offer of a teaching job, inside they had mistakenly placed my four letters of recommendation. [laughter] from the othere faculty members and the head of the department, were nice, your typical letter. Walker had written a short, two paragraph letter, in which he said, david is an extraordinarily talented and gifted photographer, and would be a wonderful addition to your faculty. Apparently they did not think so. Stephanie mentioned the archives of american art. That letter is now there. And i was so touched by it, because walker would never say anything like that to me personally. But, it was wonderful to know that he saw, in this very raw work i mean, i literally started with the toy soldier, photographing on my bedroom floor in california over winter break. I remember in january when we came back to school we had portfolio reviews. The other, there were four photographers in my year. Three, four are in the year following. Everybody came in with, particularly like jerry, beautiful prints, printed using the same technology as edward westen had used. They were all shooting with 8x10 or 4x5. And they would bring into this portfolio of elegant prints. We went in one at a time. And i came in with probably 250 prints in boxes, and put stacks by everybody. I said ive just started working on this and im really excited about it. There was dead silence. Fortunately, linda connor from the Art Institute of San Francisco was there as a visiting artist. Said these up and are amazing. I use this when im talking to students. When you study physics in high school with a but a hockey puck on dry ice. Give it a little push and it keeps going and going. Linda was that little push. We have managed to stay friends. We even appeared together. And i have always made a point to tell her just how much i appreciated that. Because that was the energy that i needed just to keep going for the rest of the year. And, to their credit, it was not as though the other faculty members were negative. They were just, sort of, i remember John Sarkowsky came for a visit to yale. People looked at them, and said, i have no idea what this is . [laughter] david they were not discouraging me. That having that little encouragement was all that i needed. Then, after graduation, jerrys , weisher, andrews mcneil had exchanged some work. And garys thesis was a faux auger fee of the german pilot done only in images and symbols. I have known gary for almost 50 years. Reallyt sure i ever fully understood what he was doing. Andrews sawand jim some of my prints, they foolishly suggested that gary and i do a book together. And we had no idea what we were going to do. We got a huge advance. We each got 750. [laughter] gary tellingmber me when he handed me the check, if you cash this check we really have to make this book happened. We signed contracts and were supposed to get it done within a year. It took three and a half years. There were diversions such as gary being awarded the Pulitzer Prize for watergate and things like that. That, again, was fortuitous. My work really went through significant changes. I would say that i did three iterations of photographs. The photographs in the book all came from a period of six to eight months when i was living in new haven in teaching. I had set up my apartment into this giant studio. Gary came over one day to help me. Such a bigbeing emphasis on theater, you can go and find exploding powder at a theater store. I had set up a little image of the figures on a hill. Gary took the liberty of taking in itgure, sticking a pin and sticking it into the hill. Blended in so when i shot it look like he was in the it looked like he was in the air. We took a little powder inlet it with a cotton ball and it went poof. Gary said give me this and spread it like a 10yearold would spread salt on french fries at the bowling alley. [laughter] david we lit it and it sounded off. A shot then going the cotton ball bounced against the window. The negative, which was virtually opaque, made this great picture. I will say when i moved out the landlord could not return my deposit fast enough. Despite the fact that there was stuff all over his carpets, he was like get out of here. If you ever want an apartment, dont come back. [laughter] david it was a wonderful experience. Deal to jimt andrews and john mcneil. A few years ago i did a small show, a gallery in new york. John mcneil came for a visit and walked through it. He looked at the photographs and said, i am so proud of that book. It was the only art book that he had ever done. And they have since not ventured into that area again. [laughter] it really helped, certainly my career, to have a book like that. And to have it, when i moved to new york, i remember meeting Cindy Sherman for the first time. And she said we were up in buffalo passing that book around. Back in those days, there was no internet. You knew what was going on in your immediate locale. And to hear that richard and cindy really that the work was significant to them, was a great feeling. To know that it had really gotten out there. In later years, it became a reference point. Joanna certainly. David there was an even an article from an art magazine as more people started using toys in their work. The writer suggested, i forget whos show they were reviewing, but they had gone to the David Levinthal school of photography. And i thought about getting diplomas made up. Joanna you will need a lot of them. David it is a wonderful feeling to know that in your lifetime the work has had so much impact. I wont for me say it is a culmination, because im planning to live a few more years. But, to have this exhibition here at the smithsonian is one of those things when i was younger, not in my wildest dreams. I think it wouldve been more realistic to dream that andy warhol invited me to the factory or something. Introduced me to nico or Something Like that. Having a show at the smithsonian was beyond my wildest imagination. Joanna you have talked a lot about the process of creating east series. Ves but you came known for polaroid technology, and used polaroid film for well over 30 years of your career. Im curious, and much of the work if much of the work in the present exhibition are shot with polaroid, with the exception of some of the most recent which are digital. That includes the small instant polaroid as well as the largeformat 20x24. Im wondering if you can talk a little bit about the influence of polaroid on the development of your work . Having started with hitler moves east, then moving to an instant technology, how that changed what you were doing . In thee is a period early 1980s when i started printing on blackandwhite paper, but hand coloring some of the modern romance work. That was my introduction to color. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, if you were a serious artist you used black and white. Thats the way it was. Was edgingloring into color. I even went so far as to develop 8x10 colorf transparencies in the darkroom in my parents house. I remember, to my great excitement, getting an image of a motel in santa cruz. But i made it in color, as opposed to the codalisc prints. I was so excited. It was probably around midnight, my brother and i were housesitting as my parents lived in d. C. Saidt into his room and i dan, i made this print. , and he said, great. He did quite share my enthusiasm. But the polaroid, my first in new york was at the marlborough gallery. The title of the show was platos cave. Ellen had some 4x5 polaroids of the same tiny figures that i had been using. That got me to thinking about using color. Ellen met with afterwards and i said i am of doing some of this stuff in ok . R, with that be and she said, oh, these were just test prints for me. I was not going to pursue it. And i tried doing some 4x5 polaroids. But i ended up using the fx70. The film comes out the front. Polaroid made for 3. 50, a clipon macro lens. So i can get close to these figures. The only problem was i had to be sure as soon as i heard the motor start, i had to tilt the tripod back or the film would knock over my little scene. I got very adept at that. I figured there had to be a better way. And i think in 1984 or 1985, they were just starting to make video cameras with significant magnification. And i went to one of the many photo stores in new york, with a tiny little set up and my little figures. And tested this out, this very nice young salesperson kept helping me. I said to him we spent like 45 minutes and i said to him im really sorry to take up so much of your time. He said, please, most people come in, drop their kid on the floor, and it is videotaping him crawling, him or her crawling around. He said this, at least, is interesting. So i got a video camera. And what i did, was i hooked it up to my television, so that the image i had never actually recorded, but i could see the image on my television screen. And because the Exposure Time on the camera was fairly significant, you did not get those diagonal lines you sometimes get when youre photographing a tv screen. You did get that miniature pixelation. Which added in another layer of realism to the photograph, and they look like surveillance videos. This was prior to the omnipresence of surveillance videos. So, it worked great. And i regret that i did not record, because i could go back and look at those scenes again. And it was a wonderful medium. Because it did not involve having to process. And polaroid, in the 1980s, was so incredibly generous to artists. A friend of mine, barbara kasten, who is using a lot of polaroid material, introduced me to someone there. And, literally, i would call up Connie Sullivan and say, can i get some fx70 film . And the next day one or two cases would arrive. 70 film . Get some sx and the next day one or two cases would arrive. Eventually, she saw some of my work with cowboys, and proposed doing a show at the kennedy gallery in cambridge, that polaroid sponsored. And i had started to use the 20x24 camera. In those days, and exposure west when he five dollars. Joanna can you describe, for those who do not know, what that 20x24 camera is . David it is about the size of a refrigerator, with a vice grip holding something together on the side. It was an amazing process, because in about a minute or 90 seconds you would peel this apart and have your final image. As i said, it was around 25 per exposure. Polaroid would subsidize you. They would give you a free day at the studio and 30 exposures. Beyond that, it was 25, which was less than it would cost to c ibachrome print. So i became enamored of that. Connie offered me a show. And this is something i never had a curator do for me. She called me up a month later and that she wanted to move up the date of the show. And i said, well, i was planning on shooting more at the polaroid studio. Connie is very direct. She said, how many days you want . And i picked a number out of thin air, and i said 10. She said, you have 10 free days. And when i had my retrospective in the late 1990s, at the International Center of photography, one of the Vice President s of polaroid was there. And i said, you know, you are kind of like a drug dealer. You give me these free days, and then, for the rest of my life, i am sending you checks every month for all of the film that i have continued to shoot. He took it in good stride. But it was a really amazing process. Sadly, over time, polaroid had its own issues. But it was a difficult material, but an incredibly beautiful material because it was so saturated and so instantaneous. And people often ask me about, say, the difference between shooting digitally and shooting with polaroid. The commonality is, like in digital, you are seeing the image right away. So to speak. The difference is that i can shoot hundreds of digital shots and not pay anything for it. But it is that same thing of moving a figure slightly, which is why i ended up with thousands and thousands of polaroids. Which now are in collections of museums like yours. But there is a certain commonality there. One of the great advantages of digital is the sense of scale. And i, i bill wegman remember we were talking at lunch, and he said after a while you start seeing everything vertically. Because that is the format of the polaroid. Both he and i, he more so than done dipccasionally diptychs and triptychs. One of the things about this exhibition is seeing some of the smaller digital prints, and some of the larger ones. I use 1 100th of 1 of the capabilities of my hasselbad camera. Lens, even though i have six. That it does what i want it to do. It allows me to work within the scenes i create and make those little adjustments and changes. So i have found it a wonderful process. To openwe are going things up to questions. So if you can send your cards to the aisles . And while we are collecting those questions, im going to ask you another one. Which sort of relates to the photograph that is on the screen behind us, although im going to change to a scrolling slide show in a moment. You said in the intro video in the gallery, and ive heard you say on a number of occasions, that there is less in your photograph than meets the eye. I wonder if you would expand on that. Im going to get up while you answer. Im coming back. David i wont notice. [laughter] david what i mean by that, joanna. [laughter] at an imageyou look the viewer has so much visual memory of their own. The object i photograph was like this big. The figures were very small and kind of crudely painted and construct it. Constructed it ismediately know where day by the flag on the corner of the car. Tried initially to put some buildings behind the scene. That just didnt look good at all. I was shooting in what is now my home. At the time it was my working loft and home. I had done custers last stand photograph. So i had a grassy hill. I grabbed that and stuck it behind the car. The moment i clicked the shutter i knew that i had made a really special photograph. It was instantaneous. Fortuitous. The last photograph i took in the studio before we did our renovations so our son could have his own room and not be living next to the washer dryer, something he pointed out to us on many occasions he was the largest thing in his room besides the washer dryer. I think that is true of really all my work. That it recalls the modern romance. Go when there were revival theaters in the 1980s new york to every film noir i could see. I would have my notepad and make sketches. Those photographs reminded me so much of film stills. I remember a curator in london when i did a show there many years ago said my modern romance looked like stories. Something happened before and something was going to happen in the photograph looked like the moment in between. As i often do i find curators, such as yourself in particular, so much more eloquent about my work than i could ever be. I coopt your phrases over time and make them my own, mainly by forgetting exactly what you said. But, i cant remember the first time that i used that. If you looked at what was in the photograph, there is not that much, but there is so much memory e voked by looking at it. The western work is so much about the western films. I remember doing a symposium in austria with david , the great historian. They were showing my film. At 1. I said my photographs are about a west that never was, that never will be. E. He gave me the greatest compliment. A wry smile came across his face. I thought that was great. It is true. I had a friend that was an analyst who used to ask me where i got all my toys from. She would have a little sandbox for her patients to set up. [laughter] david toys are so much a product of the time and the culture they come from. When my sister and i were growing up, she would get the dollhouse and i would get the gas station. Years ihat in later required many dollhouses it was always the mother, the father, the older sister, younger brother, and baby of indeterminate sex. The mother was often in high heels, an apron and could hold the vacuum cleaner. It was so father knows best and ozzie and harriet combined. Way of socializing i know the movie born on the fourth of july there is an opening sequence where the tom cruise character is playing in the backyard with his friends, war. Then it transforms into a scene of them getting off of the Landing Craft on the beach in vietnam. I always thought, you know you make war. You project it as something that its not. Oliver stones film is about that a lot in the way that the lostlife character both of his legs and became this outspoken critic of the war and for veterans rights. But it starts off with this playful the way when i was growing up, we played cowboys and indians and everybody had their holster set of their Favorite Television cowboy. My first one was hopalong cassidy. It is about, not just a memory from films and tv, but it is no longer as popular now, but life magazine. I had a friend who had the entire collection of life magazine from the first issue. I loved going over to his house and looking at the magazines from world war ii, which became the way people sort of learned about the war. And i remember in later years, the issue that came out that was so powerful. It was a little, like, High School Yearbook photo of everyone killed that we can that week in vietnam. Were in their prom outfits, some were in their military outfit. There was no commentary. It just had their name and where they were from. It went on for page, after page, after page. And it was the most heartbreaking and profound statement about the cost of that war. Joanna sorry. I was going to say that it is interesting. In one of the photographs that is upstairs in the history section, your no mans land photograph of world war i, that is something i thought a lot about also. The idea of the myth of the glory of battle being lost. And that war and the tremendous casualties, fatalities, destroyed that myth. Speaking of life magazine and Current Events, one of the questions i have on the card is whether there are a Current Events or people of the last decade that you feel warrant recreation or reproduction as one of your photographs . David probably. Im one of those people who, i will see something interesting, and i will acquire it long before i ever know exactly what im going to do with it. I do not to cause any political rifts in the audience. Joanna we appreciate that. David but i did come across a barbiesized donald trump with a background of the oval office. And it was one of those things, you know, i got to have it. I have no idea what im actually going to do with it. I do also have a barbiesized vladimir putin. [laughter] david so, maybe someday. [laughter]. Oanna too soon too soon, i think. David maybe someday when i wont be attacked on fox and friends, or people will not be looking at my address in new york and harassing my family. Joanna may i . We are just going to let that lie. One of the other questions, what other style would you like to explore, or is there a style that you have been hesitant or afraid to pursue . David not really. Subtle, but ibe feel my style has changed over the years. Part of it is that i have been doing this for so long, that i can set things up and often be very close to where i want to end up. Sometimes not. Sometimes, again, it is just happenstance. I was telling you about the photograph with the sunset. I had set up, you can see the diorama in the exhibition. I think it is six feet by three and a half or four feet. It is huge. I set up with this background, and i photographed. There was this little crescent shape of light coming through. And my first reaction was, i have two lower the background a little bit. But fortunately, i did a double take and thought it looks like a sunrise or sunset. I kept shooting. Even played around a little bit with that. So i think within my style there is always changes. I think i may be more prone you know, it took me a while, particularly working with pull droids. I could never pull back very far. With digital, it gave me a chance to do more expansive scenes. But, at the same time, i will on occasion get very close. Part of that is because i have been spending my sons Education Fund to buy beautiful models and dioramas. [laughter] david i dont think he will miss college that much. [laughter] so i am able to utilize like the diorama where all of those were uniquely sculpted for that piece, so beautifully that there is no bad angle. That gives me tremendous x ability tremendous flexibility. Have sort of a roughly defined style. On occasion, people will i remember years ago, i think it series ofoft did a 127 scale figures. I had friends saying that is so cool that you did these microsoft ads. Wasnt me. They couldve called. I would be happy to do it. Foresee anyly fo radical change. For me radical change would be shooting down on a diorama. Joanna have you done that . Avid a little bit for my next big series, which is going to be on vietnam, i have been collecting material for quite a few years. Probably 10 years. I came across this little very simple inexpensive diorama that had a ground scene. Elevated. Jets by photographing straight down i am thinking that you wont see the bases for the planes. They are cheap plastic planes, but with some detail, but you will get the sense of them flying over this grassland. Know, it is sort of in my repertoire so to speak. Anyme, i dont forsee dramatic change. Joanna we will look forward to seeing and maybe adding to our collection that aerial view of one of the vietnam dioramas. That concludes our program. Thank you so much, david. [applause] joanna now, if everyone would join us in the courtyard for our reception, we can chat more there. Thank you. [applause] American History tv is on cspan3 every weekend featuring museum tours, archival film, and programs on the presidency, the civil war, and more. Here is a clip from a recent program. Lee is given command of the prestigiousich is a position leading the army at the front with orders to attack will stop he turns it down. Lafayette. Appoints lafayette accepts. Lee is now upset that a junior officer has been placed in command instead of him and demands the position. He accepts, marshes out marches outcome and his forces are facing english grenadiers. Is supposed to attack and he retreats instead. Of this. N catches wind it is actually a drummer that is running back. Washington grabs hold of him, what are you doing know, sir. We are retreating. What do you mean . He says to lee, what are you doing, sir . E says, your excellence palalled him, you damn troon. It means you damn coward, publicly. There are all these myths that the trees shook with washington swearing. He leaves some of command and htingnally charges in, rig a potential retreat. You can watch this and other programs on our website whe whee our videos are kind. That is cspan. Org history. Presidency, style from a west point cadet to president of the united states. The Kansas City Public Library hosted this program