Transcripts For CSPAN3 Interpreting Slavery At Colonial Williamsburg 20240714

Recognized we were only telling half of the story. And so with the determination and courage and perseverance, programming was designed by our panelists tonight so that we could tell the whole story of our 18th century community. Blending social history with public history to tell the africanamerican story had never been done before. And quite literally, they were making history. This is the first of three panelist discussions were going to have this year, and i would welcome you to come back on july 5th, where we will look at current programming that focuses on africanamerican stories. And also on october 18th, where we will be focusing on the future. And our panelists at that discussion will be helping us to think about how do we continue to tell this story . For as mitchell said, its really all of our story. I know our panelists well. And they have plenty to share with us. So please let me begin the evening by introducing our moderator. He began his career here at Colonial Williamsburg as a junior interpreter and then became an actor interpreter and manager of the acting interpreters and a program developer. Hes now president of his own company, so if you would join me in welcoming richard josey. [ applause ] peace and blessings. Its kind of interesting to come home. After being in the cold minnesota for a while. To see the work thats being done here, to see familiar faces, and to see my mental work and have the opportunity to be before you all and have a shared experience with you all to learn and revisit and in some cases be reminded of its not just 40 years. Ill just say a long time. A lot of hard work. A lot of sharing, caring, supporting one another. And well be informal, were going to be loose. Let me start by introducing the folks on my panel. I begin by introducing dr. Rex ellis. [ applause ] christy coleman. [ applause ] and dylan pritchett. All right. Were going to get loose. So, i think, you know, you know, we had some previous conversations, and when we talk about 40 years, which puts us back to 1979, however you heard something here that mitchell stated earlier. That there had been some work happening as early as the 40s. Before we start getting into 79 and on, i want to start in the timeframe before that. At that point in time, that was part of the corps. Not in the 40s. Not in the 40s. I was barely even walking in 79. I was in diapers. Yeah, i joined pipe and drum in 73, and it was kind of interesting before 73. Anyway, about the 70s. 72. And i dont think there had only been one africanamerican up to that point, his name was jimmy curtis. Not the silversmith jimmy curtis but another man named jimmy curtis, and he was a drummer. Later on, there were more africanamericans in the fife and drum, but you know, i think what he was speaking of is the John Hope Franklin timeframe when i think, when was that, in the 50s, there was really an effort to look at africanAmerican History and how it could be interpreted at Colonial Williamsburg. At that time, there had been stories that had come out about people who were actually in the building. In my church, the paynes, james payne and Geraldine Payne used to live on top of the house where they stayed, and they lived there and then put costumes on or colonial garb and went downstairs and interpreted the kitchen. So that was something that i dont know how that came about. I dont know what the purpose of that was. I dont know what they interpreted, but they said they interpreted africanAmerican History down there, you know, in the kitchen. I know that there were people in the kitchen, africanamericans in the kitchen, but to be real honest, were talking about employees who happen to be black, in costume, in those areas. If you were to walk in and ask them about africanAmerican History, you may not get an answer because thats not what they were there for, and they would tell you, im cooking. Or im the blacksmith, or im the silversmith. They were more craftspeople than interpreted africanAmerican History. So i think there was a need for it, and africanamericans were represented throughout the foundation all the way up to 79. But the focus wasnt on africanAmerican History. And to be honest, before even during 79, when we were first beginning, those africanamericans that were in costume still didnt want to talk about it because they were craftsmen and they wanted to talk about their craft and to be very honest, you really wouldnt want them to because they werent versed enough, because we found in what we were doing is that if you cant answer some basic questions, then your credibility gets shot real quick. So unless you were hired and trained to interpret African Americans history, it really wasnt fair to think that they could take on that burden. I dont mean burden as in a negative but it can get burdensome. So i think what the president was really speaking of was that there was always a presence, there was always a knowledge that half the population of williamsburg in the 18th century was black, but how to interpret it, they really hadnt delved into it. And to be honest, personally, i think that it was the right time when we started doing it. And it was time people were thinking about social issues, people were thinking about women, womens history, and people kind of loosening up. But just like today, folks still aint too loose about talking about slavery. You know. But then, that has to do with how we have learned it and how we have been mistaught about the institution itself and for some reason, we think that thats a color issue when its the institution we dont understand. And we dont understand color. Because what we were trying to do is to teach the institution and people and make it very personable. I know i kind of went a little far, but those early years, those were the years that were very interesting years because there was an effort to employ our africanamericans. Knowing they represented the other half of the population in the 18th century. They employed them as blacksmiths and as carriage drivers and as sculler y mates, and they dressed them that way. Even though they were craftsmen, even though they were trained people, its interesting. The dichotomy was they were hired because they represented the diversity of williamsburg, especially africanamericans. But in their hiring, many of them focused their attention on what they did, not who they were doing. But foundation understood very well that it had to have a representation of africanamericans, so there were africanamericans who happened to be africanamerican who was a carriage driver or a book binder, or who happened to be an africanamerican, but they understood that they were hiring them to legitimize the concept of historical accuracy within the foundation. When we came on, we did not we knew that we werent being hired to be per se a tradesman. We were hired to interpret africanAmerican History in one of the most unorthodox ways of interpreting it, and thats through theater. So like guerilla theater rather than theater in the legitimate sense. So when the program came, it sort of began to focus on, yes, africanAmerican History is important. We want to interpret it. In the 1940s, as dylan mentioned, the payne family, they lived in the whip house above the kitchen. And during the day when mr. Payne was going about doing his duties as a custodian of the property, he would be in costume. He would be doing what you would do in terms of cleaning the house and the other chores he had. But he did it in costume. So there was a full awareness that he was being used as a person to represent something, but there wasnt the attendant responsibility of being of having information about africanAmerican History so that you might be able to interpret that and the part of the story. That would come a few years later with 1966 in 19th century williamsburg where it became a seminole work and a bible for interpretati interpretation. It was a compilation of a lot of work from the archeologists and historians on staff and others as they dug through the record, which was rich in terms of the presence of africanamericans, and yet, there was still large gaps. Now, you know, the other thing, too, that i think we cannot ignore with those early africanamerican Staff Members who were working in the historic area is that whether they wanted to interpret it or not, visitors would constantly address them that way. And that was part of the irritation when this actually, when this Program Actually came along, because they had been working so hard to be seen as professional, had been working so hard to have been seen as people who were mastering an 18th century craft or skill. And they didnt want their roles diminished by the visitor, frankly, who would say completely inappropriate things to them. And frankly, that still happens. Yeah. So you know, so thats sort of the additional layer, i think, to why there was this mix of resistance from black people in some cases and in fact from other interpreters throughout the historic area when this came along. I think theres another important social i think theres another important social event that also heralds why it became important in 79, and that was in 1977. For the first time, america saw the story of a black family when roots came out. I think these confluences, as dylan said, it was the right time. And there was no better person to do it to get this going. You know, there was i just thought of three things. One is when rex was speaking of people in the Historic Buildings in costume, what 79 did was put people on the street and now the Costume Design Center had to come up with what are they wearing. Right. So that now, your shirt is different. Youre wearing a linen shirt. Now, you know, so your shoes have to be different. Everything kind of changed. So now, you have people authentically dressed as black folks on the street, not just as a cook. And that means that the black cook its easy for me to say black because, you know, because now the black cook is not dressed the way a black cook would have dressed. Shes dressed the way any cook would have dressed. And so now, when people see black folks on the streets with a hat on, they go into a kitchen and start asking inappropriate questions, who are you . Thats the biggest question that i can remember, that people didnt like because they would see a character portrayal on the street, and then they equate, okay, theres another black person. Who are you . Well, we just saw them there. Who are you. Then theres an actual printer, wont mention names, but a person who was actually the master printer of the shop who wants to say im the master printer of the shop. But you know, thats not what the visitor is asking. The visitor is asking who are you. Its not that the visitor didnt ask that question, but the visitor was also very interested in that person, that individual. And thats where we got a great deal of what i say ire, a great deal of anger from tradesmen who really wanted to focus their attention on the trade. On the technology. On the im a silversmith, a book binder, a carpenter. They wanted to focus their attention on that. We came to town saying we want you to ask us about africanAmerican History. As a matter of fact, were going to create these characters that focus their attention on letting you know what life was like for africanamericans during the 18th century. And these characters fully researched, i mean, meticulously researched in many ways by the Research Department who sort of put us on the map, but we also put the Research Department on the map. Right, right . You understand that. Well, one of the reasons i say we put them on the map is because martha began to ask questions about slave objects and about material culture, and john hefbill and harold gill began to ask questions about africanamericans in the 18th century. That opened the door, then there were historians who had to in some way begin to fill in the blanks of what was going on within the africanamerican community. There are archeologists who were seeing remains that were africanamerican that they were simply saying we have to document it and cover it up. They werent doing that anymore. They were beginning to ask questions and beginning to find new questions to ask about the 18th century that gave us fodder for new information but also gave a new history that was part of what christy said, the social Historical Perspective that was coming out around i guess the 80s and 90s, and all of that seemed to Work Together in a way that allowed us to do and interpret do interpretive programs that we are very proud of. There may be a question of, well, 79. What happened in 1979 is they wanted to have characters on the streets, but at the same time, in 1979, a man named peter pippen came from the africanamerican History Museum in d. C. And under the direction of john lewis, who had asked, they wanted to do a black music program. And that was the very First Program that was ever done in the historic area, was the black music program. So while and rex was my speech teacher at hampton. Worst student ever. He came to me, he came to me on the first day of class and said, um, you know, i worked at Colonial Williamsburg. I know how to talk. Can i just not do this class at all . What in the world is this arrogant young man saying he doesnt have to do this . From there to becoming one of my best friends. God only knows. I played the fife for extra credit. Thats right. Black folks in there saying what is he playing . But what happened was rex, monty combs, eddy allen. Darren taylor. Darren taylor, were hired to walk the streets. So this young man who had this shop as a barber, i gave him a call to let him know that barber was one of the first characters on the street. That eye on him, you know, because thats 40 years, and the barber is still here. That says something, yall. He took a long hiatus, but he was one of the first. But it was nice to see tim with a shop, and that was big. He didnt know that, but then he wasnt here 40 years ago. So this is the first time people on the streets, and then there was an Evening Program of black music. If you ever see this photograph, did you have the long drum . Lamont carter, who has passed, Lamont Carter worked in the boot shop. Had very little rhythm. Very little rhythm, but lamont he was one of the few africanamericans who were interested in helping us interpret africanAmerican History. God rest his soul. Yes, god rest his soul. And rex, monty cone, eddy allen, and one more. I wrote them down. Oh, preston jones, who is still around. Oh, preston. He was one of the first. Were talki ing about, you know, but you know, that helped. I thought ruthy was in there. Ruth was later. Ruth was 80. I got her down. But she was yeah. But that in the beginning even shows that, you know, people were willing. I mean, we had two craftsmen who were willing to help. So dont want to sound like people didnt want. We just hadnt gone through the training, the training of the interpreters, of how to, because they had never really had that focus, but now they were getting the focus. White interpreters and black interpreters because they were meeting these people on the streets, and also, during this time is when children, thats a little later, ill save that. Well, i mean, rex, when they came to talk to you, who came to talk to you at hampton about this . I think thats an interesting story. Harvey cradle. Shomer dwelling, and i believe denny otoole was in the group. They came to Hampton University and said they wanted some of our actors. I was teaching in the Speech Communications and Theater Arts Department at that point. They came to hampton and said, well, i was actually was teaching an acting class at that point, and the chairman of the department called me into his office and said, theres somebody in this office i would like you to listen to. And harvey said, in essence, he wanted some of our actors to audition to play the parts of slaves at Colonial Williamsburg. You dont go to a predominantly black cheollege and make a Statement Like that unless you are three beers short of a sixpack or your cause is just. And so we sat him down, and he said we want to begin to talk about the other half of the population in williamsburg during the 18th century. Now, rex was a year old when we left the county and i came to Williams Burg to live from the time i was a year old until i graduated from high school, i never knew that half the population in williamsburg was black. I knew one of my next door neighbors was the housekeeper at the lodge. I had no idea there was this kind of history. Fool that i was, i said if youre going to do something positive for black folk in williamsburg, ill audition for it. And so it was me, it was darren taylor, it was monty combs who were the first three africanamerican interpreters in that year. And then, and then harvey cradle, who had begun the program, creating a character, what was the name of this character . A ner do well who was always in the jail in the pillory. And he always the crowd loved him because it was a way of teaching history that used theater as a way of introducing and connecting audiences to characters that were 18th century characters. Well, his character was a ner do well who was always in jail, but the crowd loved him. So the next year, he did this in 80, in 73, in no, in 78. And in 79, they saw enough of what he was doing and this sort of new burgeoning Living History Program that they asked him to hire six other people to help him create this Living History Program in williamsburg. So heres this guy saying at Hampton University, he didnt say were going to try to begin a new program, he didnt say folks would be upset about this. He said we would like you to come and work with Colonial Williamsburg and begin this program. That first year, that first year was pretty rough. Because carl hardy had this idea of us being in character and never breaking character. But staying in character throughout. After about one week, i said this is not going to work, so i called darren. I called monty, and we went to harveys office. I said harvey, this is not going to work. People are getting confused. They dont know who we are, what were doing. They think we are from Eastern States and have come here to do something that is totally irresponsible. We have to break character. He said no, no, no, no, no. We cant do that. Thats not my vision. I said, you dont understand, harvey. This is a parttime job for me. Im going to go back to Hampton University when this is over. We either try it this way or i dont need this job that bad. And so we then created a program and breaking character, now i can talk about 18th century and learn about the programs together. That program had the extra controversial presentation technique to interpret the 18th century environment. So an interesting thing because i remember my grandmother telling me because she used to work at the lodge. And i remember her telling me about how black folks in roles felt about it. She talked to me about how long before williamsburg was here, black folks was here. And the property was bought up. Going to different places and the like. And either when i first met you, now jillian at st. Johns even whenio met you at st. John, even at that point in time, Colonial Williamsburg in our neighborhood was a place that white folks go. And so when i think about you all and i see all of the and think back to that early time, i dont think i can explain how the community may have thought. I read an article just yesterday about from you, rex, where you were talking about how your father felt about williamsburg. Wasnt my father. My father said, when we passed by, if you live in williamsburg, you live east, north, south, or west, and the historic area is right in the middle, so you have to pass the historic area to go anywhere. From one end of the town to the other, you have to pass Colonial Williamsburg. We passed by one day and i say daddy, because i look at the capital and there were a whole bunch of people at the capitol. I said daddy, why is it we never go to see that place . He said because that place points to slavery. And thats not something we need to know about. If daddy says it, thats the end of it. I didnt think about it any more until that day harvey came to Hampton University. So, i came on the scene the summer of 1982. And i grew up in williamsburg. And you know, a lot of those people that were talking about, they grew up, these people who worked in the historic area went to our church or lived in our neighborhoods or whatever so we knew these people. For me, my dad was the sous chef at the williamsburg inn, and my uncle was the manager of then the cascade. He had been at the house and then the cascade. So i came to williamsburg unlike them, i came to williamsburg a lot. Walking down the street, me and my friends, we would ride our bikes up and down the historic area. We would joke on the tourists. And all that kind of thing. And so with summer prior to when i was a junior in high school, i was riding my bike, and i saw my drama teacher from high school. And im proud to say that we had like the state champion Drama Department at my high scol. And one of my classmates is right there. And so, you know, so im riding my bike, and i saw claudine carew on the street portraying ann wager. And i stopped and i was just mesmerized by what she was doing. And i thought, ooh, i want to do that. You know, and so back in class, i said hey. So you know, how can i kind of get in on that . And she said, well, first of all, youre too young. And they only you know, the people theyre working with are college aged or older, or whatever. And i have always been a little brassier than your average bear. And so i got i got i dont remember who on behalf my parents called somebody at cw to find out when the audition was going to be for the africanamerican programs and Living History Program. And so i went to the audition at 17. They didnt know i was 17. Did you lie on the application . I most certainly did not. We had to bring our resume, so i had my head shot and all my show stuff listed. Good to go. I was good to go. Doing what she could do. So i did it, then they hired me. It was really great. And so while my friends were working at mcdonalds that summer for minimum wage, i thought it was great because i was making a whole lot more money comparatively, wasnt really a lot when you think back on it, but 2 more than anybody else in high school, which was really great, and i was acting and getting able to perform, but it was and they were patient. They got me the historian to work with, and rex and dylan and the crew that was before really came in and really mentored me in the work because for me, it was just an acting, initially it was just an acting job. I didnt think about the power of what i would be doing. And i always liked history as a kid. I always understood africanAmerican History because my parents were adamant about it when i was growing up. So whenever i had that special report in english class or history class or whatever it was, they would tell me, why dont you write about this person . Why dont you write about this person to share with your classmates . So thats what i did. So i didnt have the same anxiety about talking about enslaved people. However, it didnt take long on the street for me to learn, and you know, we talked about this in the past. It was within the first week, and i was portraying someone my age, her name was rebecca, and she belonged to the blare family at the apothecary, and mr. Blare was sick and dying, and the story line was and the story line was that if he dies, whats going to happen to rebecca . Is she going to get sold off to pay his debts . Is she going to go off to live with ann blare. Thats sort of the thing, so it was a tear jerker. And i milked it for all it was worth. Yes. And then i went out and sat on the barrel out in front of the apothecary waiting for the next cycle of visitors to go through, and a visitor, a man, walked up to me and asked me how does it feel to play a nigger. Yeah, he did. And i was so taken aback by it, but also brassy, right . So i said how does it feel to play one. And i jumped up and went right to the break room and i said, mr. Alex, mr. Alex and his words stuck with me in the 37 years since i first doing that work. It changed my life and my career. And he said to me, i understand. We have all been there. And now you have to ask yourself the question, whether or not youre Strong Enough to tell your ancestors the stories when nobody else wants to, or if you arent ready to do that, its okay. You can go. And he said but you sit here and think about that. I sat in that room as interpreters kind of came in and out during their break and i said im doing this. And i went back out, and i came back every summer. So all of the plans of being an attorney went out of the window. You know, an acting attorney, but, you know. Because my parents wouldnt let me major in theater. Let me see say and dylan and then ill shut up. No, no, thats how we roll. I had a during the summer sfloot speak up a little bit for us. You hear me now . Okay. During the summer, the Marketing Department would decide how they were going to market the Colonial Williamsburg this year. They decided that they would go to a a Department Store i think it was hig byes. They go to a Department Store and. Cleveland, yes. Cleveland, yes. And they would put cloneual williamsburg characters, tradesman, dancers, and this year they would include africanamericans in that group. And every floor they had someone on that floor. And they had a particular floor in the christmas area of higbys where they wanted to the africanamerican interprets to be. And i remember that night they had a large parade that was inside the store. And all of the Colonial Williamsburg characters, whether musicians, whoever they were, they would walk down the long aisle. There were black chairs on either side of the aisle. And stock holders and other vips were seated in those chairs. And we were to all parade down and then when we got to the middle of the store one group started from one end one group from the other end. And the local guy 90s band, the local ballet. But Colonial Williamsburg were the stars. And we came in. We came to the middle of the room. And then wed go up to the escalators. Where the Colonial Williamsburg was and then they would fill in the other floor was the cleveland supernewholm rathers. There i am with bill whitt over in the cosmetics area. And i dont know if you remember mary wiseman. But mary wiseman was a part of that group as well. Im over there with bill white and mary wiseman. Bill white was the drum major. And he had coifed a banner here and the big badon and had the tricornered hat and poof and poof and boom. And he was looking good, right . And right beside him is mary wiseman. The costume shop made her this beautiful gown flowing around and put up the hair and the makeup on. And she was looking important. And then i looked over in the mirror at myself. And i looked pretty good for a slave. And i said to bill, bill, do you mind if i sit this one out . And he said, okay, but could you come by my hotel room afterward and tell me why. And i said all right. So i i went to his room after they had done all of this parading. And i said, when you put on 18th century clothing it makes you feel important. It inspires you. It makes you think that the 18th century was the ultimate of what it means to be an american. When i wear the clothes i wear, i feel like a slave. And if im responsible and want to get into my character, the more i get into my character the worse i feel as an individual. So what shes talking about is what happens to every africanamerican interpreter mo puts on a costume every day and goes out into that street to interpret something that few people interpret and to find your peace in that is what she did. Many fail to do it. But she found her peace in that but it was that day bill white understood what it meant being an africanamerican, putting on a slave costume and what that did to your psyche. I want to say this. What we did, we own that. We own that. And what we are today is still own that. And we can see. We can walk the streets and see an africanamerican, a black interpreter doing a black character and have no respect for them because they aint got that. We see that. And i aint talking about nobody. But we know what that takes. And we know when you can come out of yourself for those ancestors, you are doing your job. If you are doing it for wednesdays payday, we see that. We no he that. We feel that. And its hard to try to give advice to somebody who dont know that, because you got to feel it. And until you are called a nigger by somebody that means, that really means it, and you can take that and now how to come back to it, and in respect of i dont wish your ancestors, then you can make it. But you got to go through it, you know what i mean. And excuse me, but that 79. And 84 sfloon 84 ab85 and 86. Thats what you had to have. People came. People went. People hung around. But you could tell it. There was a time where we would go rex and i been to some shahidi places. I remember going to new jersey one time because they wanted to do something. We ended up in a hotel. I said rex they got more towels in here than sheets. We slept in our clothes. We wondered how come we was in 1899. The man looked at one room. He said looked at us, yes. We was there for a rot rotary club or something that day. But see i got off track. But the objective was, we knew that there werent people who would come to colonial williams rg rk on their own. We any nigh we had to the Outreach Program that allowed us to go into the community so that they might see us and hopefully redefine what they thought Colonial Williamsburg represented. So we went all over the globe. Yeah, yeah, and it was to spread that word. It was to get people to understand that that there is a lot of strength in 18th century history and a lot of strength in africanamerican. A lot of strength . Arken American History. If you will indulge me, i have to name those people in their honor who was in that struggle. I cant find my glasses now. But anyway, i had already mentioned the First Program and we spoke of the first characters. And then there were other programming on that time then there was a Storytelling Program. We started doing a Storytelling Program at the music teachers room what is that called now. Mary stiff house i right behind there. About we did that two or three years. Every year it would be changed up, switched up and the juchl performer program because on the program on my own time, there were children used in it, greg johnson and kay smith. And so we had to start a juvenile Performers Program because we couldnt have children in programming and they werent in the Colonial Williamsburg Program Since i worked in drama and understood the ranking and stuff developed a juvenile performer program where we would have children that would join the program and they had to know the basic history. Then you became a juvenile performer. You had to pass a test basic questions, how many slaves so and so have. What does so and so mean . That sort of thing. And rex made a request at his church to if there were any children that were, you know interested. And we ended up with quite a few shay davis. Alafrld. Kwaunda griffin joy griffin kay smith greg johnson. And later on richard josey. Dan banks donald eps and lisa read. Keisha oliver. Shand ray montgomery. Exactly. There is no well it could be debatable. Ment but for me there is no greater program that we did than that. You should go right down the list of every young person that i mentioned. They they mean something. Any got what it is we were trying to give them because they still got it. We got doctors and interpreters and you name it thats what they do. Thats whats us. You know, we gave our children what it is they needed. But they had this background in what we did. And thats important. Then trfs a program called the run away. And and thats for Outreach Program. We in Outreach Programs that went into the schools where we go into the schools and wed do some programming. And do some scenes and that sort of thing. And here at the hennige we did a lot of programs from that stage. From ear to ear is probably the best Musical Program that weve ever done. Me christy rex and Robert Watson. And sylvia tablyp got to mention a few im going to list them off people that helped in our programming. Bridgette jackson. She is lewis i dont know where she is now. Lavern johnson. Marilyn tailor. Sylvia taft. Felix simmons. Rose mcphee. Christy emily james, jones. I wish i could know where lamatras a she could pay play the fiddle. She went into the music teachers room and heard beat hove and started playing. She said i cant read music. We just looked at her. She was amazing. I wonder where she is. Deborah jones. Ruth carter oskar winner ruth carter. The sister that just won for costume design won the oscar for costume design tor black panther. She worked here. Thats right. Thats right. Pass the word. We cranking them out of here, chris moore with tony freeman. I cant think of joyces last name was. Greg james. Kathleen getwood. Janice kennedy. Later on there is people you dont know wiley brand. Ishmael conway. Ishmael conway. Ill mention him again. There you are, my brother. Linda powell Colin Powells daughter. Thats right she was we do the whole thing. Shiel la bush. Stand beatle. Ooh stand. The late stand beatle too. Kristinive lee. Kim myoer. Kim sellers. Greg payne. Lisa reed. Mick nichols. Bonnie bones. Kevin kelly. Shoma zwelley. Eugene browns and the guides in the historic home Historic Buildings we couldnt do a lot without them. And on and then we have denio otoole. Charlie brown gave the at t grant. Longterm weather a big supporter Sharon Randall jimmy kurtis pamela mendoza. And mary thank you, mary. Michelle. Diane kerry. And dave la for eptest i wanted to put out their names because any plirnt of the beginning and the first ten years without those folks and others and others bottas i didnt say linda rowe. You did. I did say linda row. Betty. You didnt say pat gibbs. Pat gibbs. But the main thing ive been trying to think of her name all day. Interestingly it came then pat gibbs. Yes pat gibbs. A shout out to karri carson. Yes. Because she took social history and this sort of new look history from the bottom up. Kari was the one who stook that seriously. And kari was the one who gave us the privilege of meeting with john hemp bill and harry and harold gill. And kevin kelly. Kevin kelly. And lieu powers. And just a bunch of historians who gave of themselves and in so many ways to help make sure that we were legitimate in the story we are telling. I cant say that too much. You had to know you have to know your history. And it cannot be a mystery. If others are going to not only learn from you but see you as a legitimate teacher. What what donald said earlier about its very important that you know your history, fl many ways its your only defense when youre out there on the street buy yourself and someone comes and says something as nine to you. Its your history that will allow you you to move yourself above the perception that they have tacked on to you simply by looking at you. So history is very important. And kari understood that all of the other historians understood that and they were with us as we created characters to make sure what we did and said were legitimate so that those people who said theyre just playing history and there were people in the foundation who were employees saying they were just playing at doing this. Playing at doing that. But we did more research than most in terms of making sure that we were ready to hit that street not only because we wanted to be authentic but because it was our armor against so many who did not wish us well. I think ill add to that and then coming to work and working with rex and dylan and others at such a young age, the value of the historical record was i mean drilled into us. We could not be lazy and repeat what you heard from somebody else. In man used to say, whats your whats your citation documentation for what you just said . And youd better be tight and be able to go back to that book and show him exactly where and why you made that that creative and or intellectual decision of how you were doing your character. I mean, it was it wasnt two weeks of training and you were done. It was nonstop. And that and it was an expectation that you continued to keep it going. Now, i know that some of the people for those of you who may not know some of the names that got rattled off, these were allies and people in the program. Kari carson specifically was the Vice President for research. Charles long weather has been the president of the foundation for years. So thats who some of those other people were from the front line to the other historical interpreters who took the ride with us. Because so fast forwarding a little bit. So i came back to the foundation after working in baltimore at another museum to finish some academic work. And i came back to williamsburg in 1989. And at that time there was a lot of transition. The africanamerican programs was no longer just a subset. It had become its own department. There was an experiment at the Benjamin Powell house. And the women that i worked with there it was an extraordinary experiment. Because we were taking this living history a little bit further. We were going to live the day in the life the at a property. So we had to we did stay in character all day. And we had to learn the particular skills of your character. I aspen the training the training took us dsh god, barnny took us six months before with zblee barnny barnes. He was the Program Manager out of the Research Department. And barney had us me and rose and kristin spiveyy and john lowe. Thank you john lowe who has has also passed on. Tweaking chips. We had to learn everything from needle point to the going into the cooking program. And we had to learn a certain level of midwhich havery. We had to learn this stuff. Fast forward, again, first couple of weeks we got a problem. Because there is two black women and then this white man and white man supposed to be owners in the house. We had to set the stanl for what we were doing, the historical interpreters would give the orientation to the visitors in the lumberhouse and then take them through theabling while we were going about our lives and the visitors could ask us questions and whatever. And so we had made a strategic decision that my character kate was snefshe was a bit surly. And she was she was more doctor dsh very introverted. And so the questions when people asked her questions her response was often really kurt and short and extraordinarily piercing, right . Because inevitably, you know, look, we live in america. We have pennsylvania really difficult time dealing with the realities of racism and white supremacy. And what slavery did. So we try to soften it. Its part of our bargaining. Inevitably was going to ask the question and they did every day, well, are they good to you . Slavely isnt that bad is it . I mean look how youre dressed at least you have your children with you. And you know, it would be that kind of thing, which was, you know, no matter how well intentioned its still annoying. And fortunately i was playing a character where i could let that be known. And so but the problem was that we were doing the work of the household. So sat down with barney. And i said man listen im tired of hauling wood every day. Rose and i are malling buckets of water. Working like slaves. We want to be clear we portray them. So you know, so we need to working something out with the Landscape Department or something. So sure enough they did. They made sure we had wood already stacked. They didnt just drop it off in the back of the house. They made sure that the gardens were tended to so at least when we went out there and gathered stuff up from the garden we didnt have to go through all this extra. I mean it was crazy what we were trying to do. But it it was profound at the same time. But we had this area cushion. And there were people, again, the historic interpreters who agreed to be part of the program with us to take people on that journey. And so this was by that point we are ten years in, right, the first decade mab done. And were looking at how we can be better. And there is one persons name that i think we need to also highlight here who i wish was on the stage with us. And thats robert c. Watson. Robert c. Watson [ applause ] was the director dsh darnl in as assistant drrkt to preks and he gave us our africanness in the africanamerican. He had a wealth as scholar in that area he had a wealth of understanding about west arken peoples and traditions and language and material culture. And helped us really dissect that historical record where despite all of their people like marley brown in the archaeologiy department as good as they were as at understanding 1ing century life. There were things they had no intellectual or academic rerns point for. And robert provided that groundwork. And that was for me also another extremely important game changer. In terms of the evolution of the program over time. And and yeah, by that time when we get into the early 90s weve got robust programming going on all day, every day, all over the historic area. And were trying to and we were there is something else. And i because i am going to so one of the things that we as we were doing this, and we were gaining more allies out in the field with the other interpreters, the question always came there were two questions that seemed to keep coming up, whose history is it and who has a right to teach it . And we were going through sort of the cultural discussions and things like that. And could we should we even consider bringing white interpreters into africanamerican interpretation . Where that would be their intellectual and work focus . Should would . Could we . And so when i became the director in 94 of the program i made the decision that we would try it. We would do it. And do i regret that . No. But what it did is that it created i believe i believe it really did create a false confidence that, oh, well clearly now, you know, everybody can do it. We are training everybody. We may not need the department anymore. Well just break it down in different ways. And well and it was an extraordinarily painful thing for me to figure in out and how to make it work, because i understood the department wasnt just the intellectual focus that we had. But it was that thing that rex and all everyone has talked about here. It was about a certain connectedness. We lifted each other up when those difficult moments came. And so my concern was, where is the support going to be for the interpreters if this is split up . Can they, are they Strong Enough, given the now the numbers of people that we have across the foundation in varying roles . I had hoped that they would be Strong Enough to sustain each other during that period of transition. And it was a crazy period. We reorganized the historic area three times in three years. And it was it was mind numbing, absolutely mindnumbing trying to keep this kind of like cocoon while all of the other transitions were going on. And at the end of the day i think that the program what ended up happening is that nobody had their eye on it the same way and didnt have the same resources of being at the directors table. And therein i thought was the big difference. It just became one of the programs that im responsible for versus someone advocating everyday for those resources. And, you know, again, that was a point for me of real struggle during that time. On the Positive Side of it, is that it did broaden the idea that all of this is our story of williamsburg. You cannot understand early america. You cannot understand how we could evolve as a nation allegedly built on the ideals of freedom and liberty, and all of those wonderful words that we say in the midst of slavery. And and so we were able to really delve into the political and social and emotional intricacy of that. And so thats when, you know, i we started pushing this idea a lot harder. Because we now had white actors that were working with us. We now had folks doing the other half tour. We had more influence in the in what was happening on the tours themselves through the historic area. So that every house the idea was that every building that you went into you heard this story from the interpreters. And that was quite and that was when Steve Elliott was Vice President of the foundation, and bob wilburn who was a big advocate of this. Bob was a huge advocate of this, and the first big test for us really was when we did the estate slave auction event in 94. And our team the africanamerican Interpretive Team agreed together that we would do it. But everybody knew that they could not take that stage. And you know, talk to dylan about it and i said dylan i need you there. Dylan came and portrayed somebody in the crewed as thefreeman. We had it was just a different that next decade, again, was testing what we had done to see you know, could we make this work on a larger scale the way we said we wanted every visitor to know who walked through Colonial Williamsburg, that 52 of the population was black. Every one had to know that basic fact and what it meant, right . There is i dont think that we talked about the actual structure of the department and how we got to where christy is speaking of. Because i haves supervisor of interpretive programs. And so in the beginning we in africanamerican programs which was an entity in itself. The people that interpreted were the people that did Evening Programs. And those who were in what was called we were call ccp, company of colonial performers. Right. But arken american programs was part of that. So anybody in costume that did Evening Program was gar game to do any of our programs. As christy mentioned about the characters at the Benjamin Powell house they werent in the same department but we saw each other did programs together. Went to green leaf cafe afterwards to get a feather burger. Thats what i got. We talked to each other and had a group of people that were on the same mission and we could share those what happened during the day kind of events. Later on and maybe well share a little bit more when we talk to the employees about some of the things that they that need to be said. But in isnt the right forum to say it, because there are just certain things that you keep in your house. And but anyway, when they got to christy when christy is speaking of them out no better word to use to water down the mission, to water down the interpretation by shall owe by taking you and putting into different areas, that was no that was nothing new. It had been tried before. But wasnt successful. What im trying to say is that we had become a group of interpreters that that knew the value and the strength of that togetherness in mission. And those who interpreted africanAmerican History. The time the times were changing. The administrations were changing. The Vice President s were changing. And things were basically changing. Cant go back to where we were but didnt want to take a step back. And things were a little bit different. There is a one thing i wanted to say about in sale. When it started and the protests started and all that happened. I saw the ring lead. And i right set off to the side the sale happened. I said, you know they do this every year he said, what. They doing an estate sale every year. I said they do this every year. He said really. I said yeah. You just watch he going to come out you knew what was happening. They going to sell some land and they did whatever thp the only difference and see the department wanted them to see a face they wanted to see a situations they wanted to see a mother pregnant sold thp pepted to see a family split up sold because normally any just sell sally and you never see sally. He says so they do this every year. I said they do this every year i was kind of casual. They just wanted you to see they wanted to put some hop to this christy came out and Robert Watson came out with miss two. I said yeah now they going to sell a man with his tools. Listen, listen, listen he listened by the end of all of that he said, well if i would have known the history i maybe wouldnt be here. I went, oh, okay. So who ever was in charge of explaining what they were going to see weeks before hand, they didnt do a good job. Well im sorry, i did. No, no, no, no, no. Go back though and explain to them what youre talking about. You werent just talking to a visitor. No, no. You were talking to protesters a lot who may not know about the estate sale go back. Christy can explain it more than me. All i know is that the reaction to the state sale. Every year there is an estate sale. Every year every year Colonial Williamsburg did a program on columbus day weekend calls owe called the kings ascension weekend. Part of that programming had always been one of the auctions on the steps of one of the taverns. And so we were stirl accen american programs then. And we had a conversation about isnt it about time . That didnt happen that originated in africanamerican interpretations. And we took that to barney and said this is what we want to do. And he was like my god, are you sure . I was like yep thats what we want to do. And so i went out and started talking to local naacp. And i talked to folks in the churches that st. Jonet, first bab at this time titus activity little ziepen had the interpreters do the same. We thought ahead of it by getting to our community. What blew is up was when the Richmond Times dispatch. Somebody who didnt know. Somebody who didnt no who didnt bother to call put in like this little snipy kind of editorial and before you know it i had friends calling me from new york saying hey, i heard you getting ready to sell you know black people to tourists in williamsburg. I was like man are you kidding me. Then we did have to heavily heavily manage the story. Because the spin was in every different direction can you imagine. By the time we got there. And yeah it was crazy. It was crazy. I was in arizona. At Luke Air Force base in my bar acs room watching yall and cnn can. And i picked up the phone and called bernetta jones. Wake at the time. And rose mcphee at the time. And and i didnt want to be in the military when i saw that clip, i wanted to come home. Because i wanted to be home with my family. And i think the the because i know time is running out. So there is one thing thats been said and weve kind of talked about in a little bit. And i think its before we open it up for q and a, i would love to hear somebody unpack for me or explain to the people the the togetherness. Christy you explained like a situation that you had. You know, and you had a support system. I dont and coming and having been in minnesota and being in a whole different environment and whole different situation, i can understand how important that support network was amongst you all and many of the folks some folks seeing it here in the audience. How did you all get that. I would say a certain routing in faith. We had a similar faith tradition. So we we were in points of crisis it was no or even points of joy, there was no hesitation about holding each others hands and saying a prayer before a program. Actually we used to do that practically every program. The challenge came for us later when we had Staff Members who came in who had different faith traditions, particularly if they were muslim or we had one person that came in later who was a buddhist. And you dont want to create an environment where they dont feel welcome. Right. But we still have to kind of embrace them in that moment. And so that i will say that sort of initial routing in faith and just lord, watch over us kind of thing. And that required not only the lord watching over you but you had to watch for each other. And so that was i know for me one of the things and then its just shared experience. Listen, when whether it was 79 or 89 or 99 there werent a lot of people doing the work we were doing. Bottom line. It wasnt like you could as a matter of fact despite wherever people landed on us choosing to have done that auction, what it did change is that other institutions, the phone calls and letters i got from month sell o. Mount veteranen, month pillier. They said my god if you can do that we can at least talk about the black presence at our sites. It change the game in that which. But again, there werent that many black people doing costume work, let alone in museum work beyond the ethnic specific institutions. And we were in a funny place with some of them, right . Our colleagues and ethnic specific institutions were like why are you doing that . You need to work in your own institutions where you are really going to be loved well backup thats another thing. Its this that to me is what created it. I mean, thats the space. We had shared experience. We had a respect for the work. We had a shared faith tradition. And we just were passionate about what we had to do. It wasnt what we chose to do. It was what we had to do. And so a different and people have come in and out of this journey. Because it is it is wearing work. It is wearing work. Rex, i want to say this and then please say something. When christy was speaking of religion, i remember and my problem is yall i name names. If mohammad was muslim. And he came to me for the williamsburg and black and white program. He said i want to do a chant before in problem. I said what kind of chant . He said im going to do a muslim chant. I said sing it for me. No, i aint making fun. But its not like oh, me. It was true. And i said what you saying . I said write it down. He wrote it down. He wasnt saying out of the way. He started the program with me. People in the audience didnt know what he was saying unless you were muslim. But its the its the fact that he wanted to do something for his faith. Now we had jehova witness. And cathy. And could be atheist. When they prayed they held hands with everybody else. When we prayed. It aint their prayer but it had to do with the togetherness and purpose. And thats a thats what we had, you know, and its a respect of your religion regardless. It was what we were doing what was important. Right. I came back in 2001 to be Vice President of the historic area. And one of the first things that i remember doing publicly was a gathering of Fire Department and police, and and everyone after 9 11. Because there were people here who were visitors who didnt know how to sort of take what was happening. Our world change. Our entire world changed during the 9 11. And i remember colin campbell, the president then, said rex, i want you to lead the ceremony on the steps of the capital that was the courthouse was the police we all did it. And we invited visitors and everybody else came. I didnt know what to say. And i ended up saying at the beginning, we might have come to this country on different ships. But we are in the same boat now. That was what i think would answer your question. Whether we were muslim, buddhist, catholic, whatever we were, when we dawn that costume, there was a shared camaraderie that didnt supercede faith and religion but allowed us to embrace all of the religions, even those who were questioning whether religion was possible because we were all in the same bet, all dealing with the same things. All trying to make sense, and trying to create dignity, trying to create integrity and trying to educate the public that came, all of us were trying to do it in our own individual ways. But we were all trying to do the same thing. We were all in the same boat, richard. Umhum. You know, i was thinking of i was thinking of those people that i mentioned and how much more expansive that is, because there were many people in the historied buildsings, the interpreters, the guides who were just as supportive didnt know how to say anything other than good job or to nod. So although these are a group of black folks, there were a lot of white folks behind us. I did im going to tell you this real fast. Dy a program told some stories at the National Voting Rights Museum outside of selma. And they had a group of a group was there, the freedom singers, heard them sing the songs. And afterwards at a picnic table. I said tell me something i within know unless i was a freedom singer. They say well we sung and any raised money to get people out of jail for civil Rights Violations and stuff. Whenever we did our music we had we couldnt go dsh couldnt leave because they would see us. We were the only black people there. Anded there would always be the clan out on the road. They said what we would do is i hope i aint giving away secrets. Usually there is jewish people. A and wed get in the trunk and get go to separate houses as any went buy the clan wouldnt see the black people. Just cars. And wed meet up somewhere and get back together and get out of town . I said really. Yeah, man you wouldnt know how people helped us during that time. White people helped us. And ive always thought about that. Because although as the president said africanAmerican History but its American History. And there are some people that embrace that, because they may have a certain history thats not being told. Women, you know, children, oh thats why i love the juvenile performer program because we put up children and even in hiring people in the beginning, one of the variety cant with have all hard to get men. But we had to have a variety. So wont mention no names of this. We had to have 50yearolds and 60yearolds. Gray hairs. We had one or two. Which we are now. Yeah. Yeah we been so, you know so its good to have a range of people. But there is a lot of support. There was a lot of support in the churches. Once they figured out what was going on, you know and it takes a while. But once they say, yeah were doing something positive. We like that too. Then it went going around to the entries. Even the people in the hotels. And big props i got to go five and drum. Big props to the brother at king arms taverns. The drum major would go down the street id salute because the brother would be out there he would be serving look at my that my man right here that my man and big props to him. And miss epps. Anybody know her . She was 100 years old whenever she heard the five and drum she would sit there and always wave and i would salute her ooefr every time. Thats the kind of encouragement that africanamerican programs needed. And if we dont get it from the left we get it from each other. Thats what was important. Because we understood we understood what the day was like and what you may have gone through. So i think we i think we run out of time. We run out of time. But we want to get a couple of questions. And while we get the microphone. Anybody who helped us in the policemans or your name has been called please stand so we can recognize who you are. Thank you, thank you [ applause ]. [ applause ] all right. Their feet hurting thats right all right. I think your point at the end about how did we do this is relative, because in 79 i came in in 79. Rex brought some people and dylan brought some people who had some heart, too. Because it wasnt easy. No. And we had to rely on each other. Because i remember as a muslim i wanted we did some research and found there were muslims in the 55 . Some people that never gave up the tradition. And i played that character very often. But i also played reverend. So we had to deal with those traditions. I want to share two things that happened. One was it was the night the night tours. And virginia has this unique rain that comes at night, you know, its not really raining but its nasty. And i had to be out there at night. And people would walk up to me and here i would kind of leap out them and sometimes id get up from making prayers or whatever out there. And i got cold. Only had a white shirt. I got cold. I never forget. Harvey cradle came up to me and i said i need a jacket im losing my voice im an actor. He brought me back an old blanket. And he said, if you were a slave this is all you would have gotten. And that was powerful. And that that did something that christy said and i dont want you to miss it wsh the word she used, this experience taut me never to use the word slave again. My people were not slaves. They were enslaved. Theres a difference. Ill let you all think about that. Second point was i went to glory island and carried my costume. And i taut at the school at gorey island. And as i left in tears the students and teachers said, the african knows of michael jordan. But he doesnt know you. Nobody let us tell our story over the 400 years to our people at gorey, at st. Louis. And you got to think about that. Final point. There are probably only 200 actual tapes of people who were enslaved now in the national archives. There is not many. Am i right, rex . There are not many. So we did the best that we could. And im ishmael conway. And this is my wife ayanna conway. And we spent a career interpreting. Im very proud and honored to be here. [ applause ] first of all, id like to say that this has been a real eye opening experience for me. My wife and i moved here to williamsburg because of your stories. We didnt have a clue, when i grew up all over the United States and one of the alltime strangest places i lived in my life was mississippi. And i was 9 years old. I didnt understand it. Now i get a sense of what the hell was going on, because i was too young to get it. You are to be commended and congratulated for putting it out there in terms of the risk and the emotional risk that you have put on that stage that you went into battle on those streets in williamsburg every day. I consider an incredible honor to meet you. Thank you. [ applause ] thank you. I have a question. That id like to ask. Can you stand up, please. Were there were there any free slaves that were merchants during the 170 ohs. Any free blacks. You mean free black people . That were merchants in williamsburg. In williamsburg or merchants that were black that were free slaves . Free men freedman. What he means, yeah. Yall get it. Dont be upset. We got it. I i dont know of any. I know of somebody that was in yorktown in the 18th century i cant think of the brothers name. But i dont know of any in williamsburg that would have i i dont know what theyd be selling. Mr. Ashby comes to pined from the one of the merchants. And there were you talk about cecil barber. They applied their prayed on business. And blacks that had garden plots and sold vegetables and things like thatten on the weekends. In the market square. In market square. But in terms of. Not shop owners. Im pretty sure they were few and far between. Ive frothen what i did no about the york county records but i. John rollinson. Thats the one that comes to mine. So a few. A few to answer your question. Martha can answer that. You talk about Carters Grove. I think were missing a part of that picture when we dont talk a little bit about how Carters Grove meshed into the programs. No doubt. No doubt. Carters grove was the rural story. The Colonial Williamsburgs urban story. What was the year. 18. 1888. 1988. You captain hear me. 1988 we had alex haily come and help to us open the slave quarter at the Carters Grove. And the first time we were able to tell that rural story. It was a huge debate that you know about, martha, that had us interpret and build slave quarters right at the at the entrance to the to the to the estate. They actually change the direction so that when you came to Carters Grove, before you saw the Carters Grove mansion, you had to pass through the slave quarter in order to see it. What an interesting adventure that was. Ill never forget Arthur Johnson at that time art was huge. And art stood at the beginning of the of the other thanation after the orientation was over. People would go into Orientation Center there where there was a gift shop and restrooms and a film that you were given. And then youd come through the back of the center. And that would lead to you across a bridge and into Carters Grove proper. And they had a debate the archaeologyists and ivan hume, and bill kelso had an argument about whether it was a tanning pit or slave housing at the beginning. Bill kelso won and they put slave housing right there at the end of the path. And you had to pass through that before you went to Carters Grove. But there were people who were who would go across the bridge and like they didnt see the slave quarter. There were three buildings there but he would and all they would see it the is the mention just the top of the mansion make a bee line toward the mansion. There you go. Arthur was so big, until he could stand and put his hand on one end of the gate and the other end of the gate to stop people just as because as you came off the off the gate you could see the slave quarters. And so art did that. And he stood there. Because he knew it was a graup of people who were going to be pulsing out of the film and coming across the bridge. And they came across the bridge. Art said let me just i know you trying to get the mention. Let me just ask you one question. Anybody here related to the duponts race your hand no anybody eliot to do rock fellers rock fellers raise your hand nobody raised their hands. He said and he pointed for the slave quarter and he said welcome home. I should have gave him a raise after that. And then you had the other employees who bait hard. I wont mention neighboring mm hey, you dont want to stop going into you dont want to stop here ill take you through here. Long line up there come on through here. They crazy over there. We got one here. I understand that may be the last person but i. No we got time. First of all i was educated in virginia and went to high school and took virginia history but until i came to williamsburg and got to experience the interpreters. Hold on a minute. She got a mic. Must not be on. She has to put to her mouth. Put it up here. Okay. Ive never had this problem before. Knows of you who know me. I never had this problem. I want to echo the gentleman behind me and his congratulations to you. And my question to you is where will my great grand child go to hear the story that you told today . Because it is a compelling story. It is ripe in this country right now as we experience the great divide. We have to know we have to know the pain and the struggle that it took for you to portray what was really happening in this place. It is American History. Its very, very important. Because those of us educated here we did not get it. Im not young. Well, okay id like to be young. But i was i went to high school and Junior High School here in the 60s. I graduated in 73 in hampton. I attended hamptonen university. Didnt know dr. Ellis. I want to know where will we go to hear your stories told today. Theyre record something right back there. The one thing i will say is that Colonial Williamsburg has always done an extraordinary job with ark identifying. One of the things we promised each other in our sort of pretalk was to be as emotionally honest about this as we could, even as we saved some names to protect the innocent and not so. But, you know, it is being digital digitized. I think it will be shared first with employees who wanted to see it first. After that i dont know. But thats the one thing i will say is that they have from photographic records to the videoographies and things taken over the years, there is an incredible programmatic archive here. My only hope is they get it digitized, uproded to people can get to it easily. Beth mentioned that there were two other programs that they were having one in jun and i believe. July and october. And one in october. So please come back for knows programs. But also interpretively i dont know if Valerie Williams is here tonight. But she does a lot of programs in the auditorium. The way that is if you just take the leap, you can talk with interpreters who, number one have been trained enough to understand and know the history but, number two, want to in many ways talk with people who are interested in hearing more than a mono log, more than a few points but want to hear more about the experiences of the 18th century and contemporary experiences as well. I suggest that as you run into those characters that you take advantage of knowing them and and delving deeply in the rich history theyve been studying so long. Also id like to id like to say that whatever it is that you can give that great grand child, as a story teller i tell a story and i compare it to something. This connects to this connects to this connects to that. Our young people need to hear what has already gone on so that they can make connections. You know travon, thats now. What about 60s,way about 50s, the 40s, the internet now, all the stories coming up in . And i question this them first of all because everything that i read aint true. Everything on the internet. No, no. Example i read about i dont know if you have seen this thing about putting rice in your hair. That some africans put rice their hair so theyd have have something to eat on the Middle Passage i said they more concerned about rice than getting off the boat. That they preparing for the Middle Passage. And the person at the other end said you learn something every day you just learn something new. I said no i didnt. You know, take a Little Common sense. But all im saying is that there are little connections and its the history but then you say okay what did Valerie Holmes just tell me. Its seeing a problem and saying what does that mean . And where have i seen this before . That is why i always said that africanamericans have long memories. And we see things from 50 years ago that we know our ancestors saw. And we call it out. We know racism when we see it. We know when people oh, good morning. We know that stuff. Because we have done that. And we have had to do that. We have to say good morning to you, maam. We know that. And we see it and pick it up real quick. And thats because that history has taught us what its like to hear the same thing and to see the same thing. So the stories we tell are being told a little bit different now. We want to stop and certainly acknowledge beth kelly. Yes. And steven seals who was not here who is in. He is in iceland. Iceland. What is is he doing there. Celebrating his wedding. He just got heard. We want to give honor to them for taking the time [ applause ] i want to do one more. One last question. And understanding the importance of this. As you say its not just important tonight. Its important for so many reasons and so and so many spaces and places we dont have an opportunity to sit and talk seriously about these issues. Somebody is oh on one side and somebody on the other. And nobody is having a conversation like this or at least not enough conversations like this going on. So i hope Colonial Williamsburg can take the lead and continue these conversations as you hear there are those who would like to hear even more of the conversations as well. And i believe we have room. We just doing one more here. And we can stay back cant we. Well be able to stay back. And hang out. I also wanted to thank you for what you are doing here and sharing out there is talk about their own work and excited ways. It gives me a new insight into exciting scholarship that is done in my field and other bills i might not have the opportunity to look into further. I also love getting to watch the lectures of American History, and different classrooms college classrooms. I get to see specifically how my colleagues i might never have met are approaching different topics what type of courses they are teaching and kind of the classroom environment and how they are teaching topics on a daily basis it connects me to a Wider Community scholars within and outside my field. American history tv, exploring our nations past every weekend on cspan three. Online at cspan. Org history. Mirkin history tv product are available at the cspan online store. Go to cspan store. Org to see what is new for American History tv. Check out all of the cspan product. The book the road to charleston Nathanael Greene and the American Revolution describes how general greene reversed a series of losses and eventually defeated the british in the Southern Theater of the war for independence. Next, author and historian john buchanan, discusses his new book the American Revolution institute, of the society of cincinnati, in washington dc. Good evening, well, i am kelsey atwood, public Program Manager American Revolution institute of the society of cincinnati im delighted to welcome you to anderson house