With daniel dreisbach. It shaped the founders political thought and rhetoric. This presentation will examine the founding generations appeal to scripture to answer political questions and to inform an emerging constitutional tradition. Daniel dreisbach is a professor in the school of Public Affairs at American University here in washington, d. C. Many he earned the highest faculty award, scholar teacher of the year. His Research Interests include constitutional law and the intersection of politics, law and religion in American Public life. His most recent book is reading the bible with the Founding Fathers. I have that one myself and its full of sticky tabs. I encourage you to get that and enjoy it. Please join me in welcoming dr. Dreisbach. Well, thank you very much. It is a real pleasure and a joy to be here in this magnificent facility in this tremendous resource that we have here now in the nations capital. Let me also say that its a real joy for me to share the platform with professors byrd and kid, two scholars from whom ive learned a great deal through the years. This morning, im going to be drawing on my book, reading the bible with the Founding Fathers, and i want to turn our attention to the bibles contributions the emergence of a constitutional tradition. In the last third or so of the 18th century. We are talking here about the american founding, and by that term i am referring to that time in the life of a nation when americans, the colonists, began to agitate for their rights as englishmen. And believing they had failed to secure those rights they then embark on the pursuit of independence and having secured independence they then have this tremendous task of building a new nation, building the institutions of government and the like in the wake of a devastating war, and having won this independence. Thats what im referring to, the last third or so of the 18th century. The Founding Fathers read the bible. There are many quotations from and illusions to blooth familia and obscure biblical confirmed they knew the bible from cover to cover. Biblical language and themes literally seasoned their rhetoric, the phrasings and the cadence of King James Bible and it is, in fact, the King James Bible for the most part these americans are reading. If you know the king james, you know it has its very distinct language, very distinct rhythms, and you hear these cadences and rhythms when you listen to the discourse of the founding era. And its going to be this biblical language, from this particular english bible thats going to inform their written and their spoken words. The ideas of scripture are going to shape their habits of mind and inform their political pursuits. Now, the bible was the most accessible and authoritative text for most 18th century americans. And effective communicators, politicians are going to adeptly use the bible to reach their audiences. And significantly, both christian as well as skeptical founders, including some who doubted the bibles define origins, are going to appeal to scripture in their political rhetoric, their political discourse. In a now famous study published in the american Political Science review on the sources cited in the political literature of the american founding, political scientist donald lutz reported the bible was cited more frequently lets see. The bible was cited more frequently than any european writer or even any European School of thought. The bible, he found, accounted for approximately onethird of the citations in the literature he surveyed. The book of deuteronomy alone was the most frequently cited work followed by the spirit of the laws. In fact, deuteronomy was referenced nearly twice as often as john locks writings and the apostle paul was mentioned as frequently as montesque, or william blackstone. And why is deuteronomy so appealing to this generation of americans . There are several responses. First, deuteronomy is a digest, it condenses the books and the laws of moses, which exerted significant influence on american law going all the way back to the first puritan commonwealths in the 17th century, and continuing up to their own time. This book also records gods dealings with a chosen nation, especially in establishing the political and legal institutions necessary to govern a nation. Yes, there are texts on government and the responsibilities of citizenship that refined in the new testament. Whats particularly appealing, i think, in the accounts of deuteronomy is americans in the wake of independence, in the aftermath of this war, they have to build a new government. And they see in the history of israel having departed from egypt the same exercise taking place, the building of a new nation with its various political institutions. And this has a particularly attraction to americans in the founding era who see themselves engaged in a similar project. Now, to be sure, theyre drawn to many other texts. Yes, deuteronomy is particularly appealing. But there are also going to look to texts like romans 13 which speaks to submission to those in authority. A story about liberty and liberation, that they think speaks very much to their own circumstances. Theyre also drawn, perhaps inappropriately, we could debate this, to some of the new testament texts that speak of liberty. Galatians 5 1, stand fast therefore in liberty wherein christ hath made us free. A wildly popular text in the literature of the american founding. This is a text i would view as speaking so what i might call christian liberty, but theyre misappropriating it for a political purpose. They are also drawn to the great covenant text in the Old Testament. Leviticus 26, deuteronomy 28, that tell the story of a nation forming a covenant with god. So theyre drawn to a variety of biblical texts. Now, i think we should perhaps pause to ask this question. Are the many references to christianitys sacred direction that refined in this political discourse, are these merely rhetorical ornaments, are they without substantive significance, should students of the founding be attentive to the bibles influence on the political and legal developments of this period . In other words, did the founders use the bible in ways that mattered . One can acknowledge that the founding generation read and referenced the bible, and simultaneously doubt that the bible exerted consequential influence on their political and legal projects. Simply counting and documenting the founders many references to the bible, i think tells us little, except the bible was a familiar and useful literary resource for this generation of americans. In the book i try to move beyond the simple observation that the founders frequently cited the bible. I think that almost goes without saying. I want to move on and examine how the founders used the bible, and how it may have influenced their founding project. Which biblical texts appealed to them . And why did they think these texts spoke to them in their own time and situation . A study of the founding generations uses of the sacred text must be attentive, must be attentive to the purposes for which the bible was invoked. And again, not merely to the fact that they read and frequently referenced it. The founders uses of the bible, they used the bible for a variety of reasons, and for diverse reasons, ranging from the primarily literary and political to the profoundly theological. They used the bible as we sometimes they used the bible as we sometimes use the bible today, first to enrich a common language and cultural vocabulary, phrases, figures of speech, proverbs and the like. In counseling a patient, john adams wrote to james warren in april of 1776, and i quote the management of so complicated and mighty a machine as the you nighted colonies requires the meekness of moses, the patience of job, and the wisdom of solomon added to the valor of daniel. You have to know a little bit about your bible to appreciate whats being communicated. A fairly simple illustration of what im speaking here. Let me give you a slightly more substantive example. And here i turn to a very familiar biblical metaphor, were all familiar with abraham lincolns 1858 invocation of the biblical metaphor of a house divided. Hes drawing here on the gospels matthew chapter 12 and mark chapter 3. And this is a powerful metaphor in the sense in which lincoln uses it. It captures the nations precarious political predicament on the threshold of a bitter civil war, more powerfully than a wordy dissertation. Now, of course, lincoln is at his prime, a couple generations or more after the period that i am speaking about. But i think its interesting to note that this is a metaphor that is often used in the political discourse of the american founding. And used by a variety of figures. And in very political contexts. Take, for example, George Washington observed in the midst of this struggle with Great Britain if the house is divided, the fabric must fall, he says. We see a similar illusion to this particular metaphor in the federalist papers. Again, it shows up with some frequency elsewhere in the political settings of the time. Secondly, the bible was used to enhance the power and weight of rhetoric through its identification with a venerated, authoritative sacred text. So the mere identification of biblical language with political discourse today adds a kind of seriousness, a gravitas to what the speaker is saying. I am particularly fascinated you this is taken one step further. Although less obvious, but perhaps as significant is the use of bible like language in political rhetoric. That is to say the use of words, phrases, imagery or cadences that resemble, imitate or evoke the language of a familiar bible translation. And, again, in the American Experience, the translation most frequently imitated would have been the King James Bible. A mere resemblance to the intonations of this particular translation infuses rhetoric with solemnity and sanctity and authority. Consider a few examples of a few lines of perhaps the most famous example of revolutionary rhetoric, this is patrick henrys give me liberty or give me death speech. Now, as that speech has been passed down to us, and somewhat contested form, let me read to you a few lines, the famous ones. He says, why stand we here idle . What is it that gentlemen wish . What would they have . Is life so dear, or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery . Forbid it, almighty god, i know not what course others may take. But as for me, give me liberty or give me death. There are quite a few references and allusions there to biblical language, king james language, why stand we here so idle or is life so dear, from acts chapter 20. Theres a powerful setup, but as for me, this echoes the language of genesis and that covenant between god and abraham, and perhaps more famously it takes us to the language of joshua in that famous speech, joshua is speaking on behalf of the lord, but he says as for me and my house we will serve the lord. So hes bringing to very powerful effect this biblical language. Hes not quoting the bible. Thats what i find that ifascin but hes using biblical language to add gravitas, if you will, to the speech hes giving. Third, the bible is used sometimes as it is today to identify and define normative standards for ordering and judging public life. Im going to give you a number of examples of this in just a second. Fourth, the bible was used to marsh Political Authority and political agenda and policy objectives. And it was also used to gain insights into the character and designs of god, especially as they pertain to gods prove dential oversight of the material world. And more specifically, his dealings with men and nations. I think we heard in the last session about franklins famous speech in the constitutional convention, and we, i think, see hints of this particular use of the bible, how does god deal with nations . What does he expect of a nation . But i think its very important to recognize these very distinct uses of the bible. Its important insofar as it is misleading to read spiritual meaning into literary uses of the bible just as it is misleading to do exactly the opposite. Lets keep these various ways in which the bible is used very clear lysette in our minds. Regrettably there is a tendency among scholars today to discount or dismiss the influence of the bible on the founding and on the founders. Many scholars in the academy describe the founding era, a time sandwiched between two gate religious revivals as an age of enlightenment and rationalism in which the founding generation rejected or deemphasized the bible, and political rhetoric, end quote. I think this is a fairly common sentiment that one hears from scholars today. I suspect, for example, that we could walk the few blocks from where we are down to the library of congress and we would fine shelf after shelf of books written on the profound influence of john lock on the american founding, but we would probably be hard pressed to find more than just a handful of books that focus on the bibles influence on the american founding. Again, i think that reflects sort of the landscape of modern scholarship. The founding generation in the last third or so of the 18th century drew on and synthesized diverse intellectual traditions in forming their political thought. Among these diverse traditions were british constitutionalism. And ive depicted here magna carta, the great english jurist sir william blackstone. They also drew on enlightenment ideas in a variety of forms and expressions, and just as representative examples here, i have lock and montesque. I have representing this, again there are many other figures we could illustrate this with, but i have here cicero and machiavelli, both from ancients and modern thinkers. The thesis i advance in my book is this, both that he break and christian biblical traditions must be studied alongside these other prospectives if we want to truly understand the ideas that shape, that inspired the founding of the american constitutional republic, and our great experiment in republican selfgovernment and liberty under law. Im speaking here of course of the biblical traditions as we find in the hebrew scriptures, also speaking more broadly about that christian tradition, and here i have illustrated this with a depiction of the apostle paul. But also in the American Experience theyre drawing on protestant articulations of political ideas. And particularly influential, we have john calvin. We could ill straight eaustrate these points with other figures. But we have to keep in mind theres a variety of perspectives americans are reading and studying and drawing on. My point here is the bible must be included in this range of perspectives that they are drawing on. Interestingly, George Washington identified the bible, the significant contributions to the American Experience. The empire was laid at a near Perfect Moment in history, not in some gloomy age. It was epic when the revelation had an influence on mankind and increased the blessings in society, end quote. Its an interesting statement. Made in a letter, a circular letters to the states, written in anticipation of his resignation of commander in chief of the continental army. His main point here in this paragraph is to say, you know, the founding of this new nation comes at a most propitious time. And he goes through a laundry list of the evidence that leads hem to say that. The learning and arts and sciences are greater than its ever been before, commerce is richer, and more fulfilling than ever before, and then at the end of this list he says, and above all, above all, the pure and benign light of revelation has had ameliorating influence on mankind and increased the blessings of society. So how did the bible inform the founders political pursuits. They drew on diverse perspectives, and come from diverse theological backgrounds and some doubted christianitys tran sen dent claims and doubted the bibles origins. I suggest that many looked to the scriptures for insights into human nature, civic virtue, social order, Political Authority and other ideas that are going to be absolutely essential in creating a new pollity, creating a new political order. Perhaps, most important, there was broad agreement the bible was essential for nurturing the civic virtues that give citizens the capacity for selfgovernment. In various conventions and representative assemblies of the age as well as in pamphlets, political sermons, private papers, founding figures appealed to the bible for principles, precedence, models, normative standards to define their community and to order their political experiments. So let me suggest some very specific ways, several ways, but very specific ways in which the founders thr founders drew on scripture in faming an american constitutional tradition. I want to suggest three different ways in which this influence takes place. First, general theological or doctrinal propositions regarding human nature, civil authority, politics and the like i think we could illustrate each of these in multiple ways. Im going to offer a couple illustrations of what im speaking of here. Here, consider, for example, the doctrine of original sin, and human kinds radical depravity. The fall that we read about in genesis chapter 3. Im going to suggest to you that this prompted the founding generation to design a constitutional system that would prevent the concentration of power. And it would check the abuse of power vested in fallen human actors. It seems to me that one cannot understand the most basic fundamental features of american constitutional design. And here im referencing limited government, separation of powers, checks and balances, representative government, rule of all. You cant understand these features of constitutional architecture without starting from this proposition, that theyre looking at human nature as a fallen in a fallen state. And if you vest power in these human actors, you must check the exercise of that power. This constitutional design, in other words, reflects a biblical anthropology, a biblical understanding of who, who we are as humans. Another example, oaths of office required in many state constitutions and statutes in the founding era were often explicitly premised on a belief in a future state of rewards and punishments. And they oftentimes use that precise phrase, a future state of rewards and punishments, an acknowledgment of a life here after where we must stand and answer to how we conduct ourselves in the here and now. Second, the founding generation saw in the bible political and legal models that they sought to incorporate into their political and legal systems. Again, i want to just give you a few examples. I dont want to suggest that this list is exhausted. But just a couple examples. First, we might reflect on republican or representative government. Republican or representative government. Americans believed that the hebrew commonwealth described in the Old Testament provided a model for republican government. Im going to come back to this point a little bit later, so i mention it here and well elaborate in a second. A second example would be this very idea of due process of law, due process of law by which we mean procedural fairness and the equality of all persons before the law. This is a principle thats explicitly articulated in both the fifth and the 14th amendments to the United States constitution. And the founding generation were often quick to point out that you can find principles of due process sprinkled throughout scripture, especially in the laws of moses, particularly drawn to the first nine verses in exodus 23. An interesting text that has been described throughout history as the Ten Commandments of justice, or the deck ca log of due process, principles of due process worthy of emulation in their own system. Let me give you one more example, separation of powers, separation of powers. There were americans who saw in scripture models for the separation of powers. The form of government thats described in deuteronomy chapters 16, 17, 18 establishes the distinct and separated branches of prophet, priest and king, each office or branch was assigned specific functions and spheres of influence, each of these branches enjoyed full autonomy and independence from the others, and each was subject to the rule of law. No branch in this particular model that we read about in deuteronomy could claim priority over the others, and antiquity, rank and power. There are americans pointing to this precise portion of scripture to say, look, heres a model, a model of separation of powers. Now, i think this is a good point to pause and make a point that i would want to make frequently throughout this talk and that is to say they oftentimes looked at scripture not necessarily for the specific nuts and bolts of what this might look like in application, but when they saw or what they believed to see, which was a model of republicanism or a model of due process, or a model of separation of powers, it reassured them that these were ideas that enjoy divine favor. They may look elsewhere, separation of powers, theyre very drawn and attracted to montesque who writes on this very topic, but its presence as an idea in scripture comforts the pious among this company of americans that god approves of this as a political principle. Third, third, the bible may have influenced some specific provisions written into the United States constitution. Let me give you, again, several examples. And im going to start with an example that we might agree is arguably insignificant. Right . But lets start with what we read about in article 1, section 7, clause 2. It excepts seven days from the ten days within which a president must veto a bill. I take this to be an implicit recognition of the lords day, or this idea of sabbath, commemorating the creators sanctification of the seventh day for rest, we read about in genesis chapter 2, the fourth commandment the sabbath be kept free from secular defilement, in the christian tradition, the resurrection of jesus from the dead. Heres another example. In article 3, article 3, section 3, clause 1, theres a requirement that convictions for treason be supported by the testimony of two witnesses. This is a requirement that conforms to a familiar biblical mandate for conviction and punishment. And were going to find multiple biblical passages, both the Old Testament, and the new testament that speaks to the importance of having more than one witness for certain kinds of prosecutions. Ive offered here on this screen the language that we find in deuteronomy chapter 7, verse 6. At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses shall he that is worthy of death be put to death. But at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. And, again, were going to find multiple other biblical texts to speak to this same principle. Let me offer you one last example. And, again, there are others, but one last example to illustrate this possibility that specific biblical texts inform specifically specific constitutional provisions. I want to turn here to the fifth amendment, the fifth amendment to the constitution where we find a prohibition on double jeopardy. That is to say, trying someone twice for the same offense. This is language that was crafted by the First Federal congress, meeting in new york in the summer of 1789. Where did this idea come from . Where did this idea come from . Well, historians tell us that in a commentary written in 391 by saint jerome, he suggests this is a principle to be found in the book of the prophet nahum, chapter 1, verse 9, where we read affliction shall not rise up the second time. We can debate whether the saint here is on good ground in his interpretation of this text. But the point here in this setting is this an idea that from saint jerome works its way into canon law, the law of the church, from law it becomes part of the customary law and common law of england. From england it crosses the atlantic with those first english colonists, woven into early legal articulations in the colonies. And when the colonists now independent begin to write their first constitutions in 1776, its going to become a part of constitutions and declarations of rights at this moment. And then it eventually works its way into the fifth amendment into the United States constitution. I like this example because this is an instance where the research has been fairly clear on this lineage in terms of the transmission of an idea, from millenni millennium and its own opinions has from time to time drawn attention to this very lineage. The origin of this idea of double jeopardy going back to saint jeromes interpretation of the book of nahum. Now, more broadly, and more generally speaking, many founders thought the bible was essential to their constitutional experiment in republican selfgovernment, republican selfgovernment. Now, i speak here of small art republicanism. Im speaking here of a political arrangement, a political system, not a political party. So what did small or republicanism mean to americans in the founding era . It meant least this. Popular government committed to the rule of law of which Government Authority is derived from the consent of the governed and exercised through representatives freely and fairly chosen by the people. Let me draw your attention to what strikes me as a rather extraordinary turn of phrase, a turn of phrase that i encountered on more than one occasion as i was working on this book. John adams, john adams described the bible as the most republican book in the world, the most republican book in the world. Now, i have picked up my bible thousands of times over the course of my life, but ive got to be honest with you, ive never once picked it up and said now for some good republican reading. Right . Its not exactly what im thinking when i pick up the bible. But hes not alone. Hes not alone among his contemporaries in making this claim. I have some language here from john dickinson, a founder we should all be more familiar with, somewhat forgotten in our own time, but he was acclaimed in his own time as the penman of the revolution. On more than one occasion he makes almost precisely this same statement. Here i have him saying the bible is the most republican book that ever was written. Again, even these two are not alone among their contemporaries in making this statement. Now, the bible is many things to the christian. Its gods word, the whole counsel of god, its a guiding lamp, a divine handbook for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness. But is it republican . In what sense the bible republican . What are they talking about here . As ive already mentioned there were americans in the founding era who believed the hebrew republic which encompassed a half millennium from the exodus to the coronation of saul, they see in the hebrew commonwealth a form of government that they perceive to be republican in nature. Its a republican government well designed to promote political prosperity and political discourse and conventions, pamphlets of the founding era include numerous appeals to the hebrew republic as a model for their own political experiments. Let me give you an example, in an influential 1775 massachusetts election sermon, samuel lang don, at the time he gave the speech, the president of harvard college, and he later serves as a delegate to new hampshires constitution ratifying convention. He says this. The jewish government which was divine divinely established was a perfect republic, a perfect republic. The civil polity of israel is an excellent general model youre going to find many similar expressions from this period in American History where they are first describing that form of government they read in scripture as republican, and then suggesting, hey, folks, theres some things that we can learn about republicanism from this model as we embark in our own nation building. Now, let me state what i think is obvious, which is most of what the founders knew about the hebrew commonwealth, they learned from the bible. Now, they were well aware that ideas like republicanism found expression and traditions apart from the hebrew experience. Indeed, they studied these traditions, both ancient and modern, yes, they studied the roman republic, yes, they studied more modern theorists who wrote about republicanism. But the republic that was described in the hebrew scriptures reassured them. It reassured them that republicanism was a political system that enjoyed divine favor. This was reason enough for them to think more deeply about what role republicanism should play in their own form of government. For john adams, more important than the model of republicanism. The bible was an indispensable handbook for good republican citizenship, a handbook for republican citizenship. In particular, the bible more than any other source taught the civic virtues required of citizens in order to govern themselves in a republic. Now, historian james hudson at the library of congress has described the essential connections among religion, virtue and republican selfgovernment that refined in the political thought of the founding, he describes this as the founders the founding generations syllogism, the founding generations syllogism. It goes like this. Hudson is suggesting that this was a common view in the american founding, this syllogism. Virtue and morality are necessary for free republican government. Religion is necessary for virtue and morality. Therefore, religion is necessary for republican government. The political discourse of the founding era is replete with expressions of religions vital contributions to a republican regime. The idea is espoused by americans diverse, religious and intellectual dave ramsey, the first major historian of the American Revolution in his book on the American Revolution he says this. He says, remember that there can be no political happiness without liberty, that there can be no liberty without morality, and that there can be no morality without religion. Or listen to the words of benjamin rush. He says in 1786, the only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without religion there can be no virtue and without virtue there can be no liberty and the liberty is object and life of all republican governments. In other words, a selfgoverning people, a selfgoverning people had to be virtuious, and controlled from within by an internal moral compass. Because why . Because the Great American experiment is throwing off the external control of an authoritarian rulers whip and rod. Yes, authoritarian ruler can use the whip to compel people to behave in the order in which you want them. But clearly the whip and the rod is unacceptable for a free, selfgoverning people. Whats going to replace that whip . Its that internal moral compass. Nurtured by the as icivic virtu that are instilled in the language and the lessons of scripture. To why did john adams say why did john adams say the bible was the most republican book in the world . Well, i think we know. He tells us. He thinks its the most republican book in the world because he believed that without national morality, a republican government cannot be maintained. And because he believed that the bible contains the most perfect morality and the most refined policy ever conceived upon earth. What is he telling us . Its republican because this is a republican handbook for citizenship. It teaches citizens in a republic how to behave in an orderly, decent fashion, thereby giving citizens the capacity for selfgovernment and for a republican regime to succeed. So let me conclude with this question. Does it matter, does it matter whether we acknowledge the bibles contributions to the founding . And does it matter whether the bible is studied alongside other intellectual influences on the Founding Fathers . And again, we acknowledge that the founding generation is drawing on diverse intellectual, political traditions. But is it important for us to include the bible in our study of those diverse influences, that this generation of americans is studying . Yes, i think it does matter. I think it matters if one wants to understand the broad range of ideas that shaped the founders political thoughts, their actions and their deeds. An awareness of the bibles contributions to the founding provides insights to the identity of the American People and their experiment in republican selfgovernment. Indeed, the widespread biblical illiteracy of our own age inevitably distorts the conception americans have of themselves, their people, their history and their bold political experiment. The late political theorists William Wilson mcwilliams once la meanted, the publics increasing unfamiliarity with the bible makes it harder and harder for americans to understand their origins, and their mores, or to put words to their experiences, lacking knowledge of the bible americans are likely to be literally inarticulate, unable to relate themselves to American Life and culture as a whole. This danger alone should inspire americans to study the bible and its role in the life of the nation. The 19th century historian John Wingate Thornton described the bible as the great political texbook of the patriots. Not an uncommon sentiment we find in the histories of the 19th century. But heres an interesting statement, comes for a more modern source, some years ago in a cover story on the bible in america, news World Magazine reported, and i quote the bible exerted an unrivaled influence on american culture, politics and social life. Now historians are discovering the bible perhaps even more than the constitution is our founding document. Thats a stunning statement. We could have a very energetic debate about whether this provocative statement can be deaf defended or not. Clearly theres an acknowledgment the profound role the bible played in the culture, the political culture, the legal culture of the american founding era. From the puritan fathers to the Founding Fathers, americans looked to the bible for Guiding Principles on political order, civil authorities, civic virtue, responsible citizenship and other concepts. Absolutely essential to the formation of a wellordered polity. Yes, the framers drew on diverse political and legal traditions in crafting a new constitutional republic. And one of the most important, but least studied of influence on our political culture and traditional constitution is the bible. It contains in features and content designed fla to a biblereading people and we cannot understand adequately our constitutional tradition or the Historic Events that produced our great political experiment in republican selfgovernment without referencing the bible. So let me urge you to read the constitution, study the american founding principles, and to better understand the constitution and the founding project, read your bible. Thank you. American history tv is in prime time this week, friday night from our american artifacts series we visit the Herbert Hoover president ial library and museum the review the american president s life portraits exhibit, American History tv in primetime starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan 3. And on cspan book tv features programs if our after words series. Shared speeches by his father in his book scalia speaks. Linda sarsor discusses her book together we rise. And kayla mcananey talks about her book, and scott kelly talks about his book endurance all at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on book tv. Sunday on cspans q a, Duke Divinity School assistant professor and prosperity gospel scholar kate boller, everything happens for a reason, talks about being diagnosed with stage 4 cancer at age 35. People pouring in, all the intense prayers. The second i got sick my whole Little Community got together in a chapel and played like marathon runners for me handing off throughout my whole surgery, part of it was them reflecting back to me love and also this sense that my hope is that as youre preparing to die, like i was having to make preparations, that someone or something meets you there. And i certainly felt that way. Q a sunday night 8 00 eastern on cspan. Sunday night on after words, author for a westover talks about growing up with survivalist parents in the idaho mountains. Shes interviewed by susan in a kahalen. People have taken to heart this idea to learn something you have to have a degree and a whole institution in place to teach it to you. Im grateful to my parents that i was not raised to think that. So when i decided i wanted to go to college when i was 16, it felt like something i could do, not because i had any formal education, but just, okay, i need to learn algebra. I will buy a book and learn it. I didnt do an amazing job. Barely got into the university, but i kept going with that and i think, yeah, my parents took it too far. I arrived at university really underprepared. I wasnt raised my hand in class and asked what the holocaust was. I had never heard of it before. So i wouldnt say this is the ideal education, i would not say that. Watch after words sunt night at 9 00 eastern on book tv on cspan 2. Our look at the bible and the founding of america continues. Next, Vanderbilt University divinity Professor James byrd talks about the bibles use by the Founding Fathers to defend their patriotic distinctions during the American Revolution. This event was hosted by the museum of the bible in washington, d. C. Earlier this month. Our Third Session today is the bible in the American Revolution with james byrd. In this presentation based on his latest book, james byrd showat