Transcripts For CSPAN3 Environmental Regulations Impact On Farmers And Ranchers 20180214

A critical part of our nations economy. Members of this committee should work to ensure environmental laws are strong and effective without being overly burdensome. This is often a difficult task. The United States is blessed with diverse ecosystems that often require different kinds of stewardship to remain healthy. In wyoming, we have an abundance of sage brush brainy, forests, a variety of mountain habitats and wetlands. Wyoming ranchers and farmers are familiar with each ecosystem and its needs. This is where they live, work and invest their energies. Farmers and ranchers are the original stewards. They understand that landscapes and watersheds need to be healthy to support native plants, wildlife, crops and livestock. Theyre living proof that interacting with nature can be done in an environmentally sound way, often leaving the resources in better condition than they found them. Washington policies do not always translate well in Rural America. When im home in wyoming, i often hear how out of touch environmental regulations have become. For far too long, the people who feed, clothe and house our nation have been burdened by policies that fail to reflect on the ground realities. We can look no further than the Obama Administrations failed waters of the United States rule. Under that rule, farmers and ranchers across the country were told that irrigation ditches, ponds and puddles were, quote, navigable waters and could be regulated by the federal government. Im happy to say last week the delay in implementation of the rule became final. Giving the epa and army corps of engineers to make sure that any new rule protects americas Water Resources while not unnecessarily burdening farmers, ranchers, Small Businesses and communities across america. When writing legislation, Congress Must take care to ensure policy actually achieves the designed objective. Agencies must do the same when developing regulations. I believe that we should prioritize updating and revising policies that while wellintentioned were not designed to micromanage agriculture production. One example is the new animal waste emission reporting requirements. Over the past several months, farmers and ranchers struggled to comply with ambiguities and ambiguous Agency Directive following an april 2017 decision in the d. C. Circuit court. That decision fundamentally changed reporting requirements under the comprehensive Environmental Response compensation and Liability Act. And the Emergency Planning and community right to know act. The ruling meant up to 100,000 farmers and ranchers who had never been required to report under these laws were suddenly required to comply. Even though they wanted to comply with the ruling, the process and the implications of compliance were unclear. Because they both were not written with the intent of regulating these farms and ranches. The requirement to report emissions from animal waste came without context and largely without any agency guidance. Let me now turn to the nepa, the National Environmental policy act. We cannot discuss environmental regulations and their impact on Agricultural Operations without mentions nepa. Nepa is at the core of every decision in each land use plan, Resource Management proposal, trailing acrossing permit and grazing allotment that farmers and ranchers need. Nepa is not limited to agriculture. For years, weve discussed the effect nepa has had on delaying the construction of road, bridges, parks, and other critical infrastructures. While environmental analysis can be important in many case,completing nepa takes far too long. As nepa delays stifle ecosystems need changed and farmers, ranchers and their families wait for an answer. As we will hear from todays witness, these are families whose lives, livelihoods, hopes and dreams are inseparable from the lands and the waters they work so hard to keep clean. These are not the only examples of punishing regulations that farmers and ranchers in and the communities they live in face. Today, we will also hear about duplicative permitting requirements of the application of pesticides already covered under the federal insecticide, fung side act or fifra. Issues of privacy and the collection of data on farmers and ranchers. How how the endangered species act has been implemented and the subsequent negative impact on ranching and farmers. These and other examples will be discussed so we as a committee can better understand how we can work these hardworking communities across our country. Before we move on to our witnesses today, id like to turn to the Ranking Member, senator carper for his remarks. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Thanks very much for bringing us all together today, a special thanks to our witnesses. I feel privileged to be able to introduce our secretary of agriculture for a second tour in a moment. First, let me give a brief statement and id like to introduce michael. No other sector of our nations economy success is more closely tied with the quality of our environment than is Agriculture Sector. Farmers are our nations original conservationists. They understand better than anyone else the need for clean air, for clean water and highquality soil in order to produce the food that we need, not just to feed ourselves, but, really, to feed the world. In delaware, over 40 of our land is dedicated to farming. Our states Agricultural Sector employs some 30,000 dealians, while contributing nearly 8 billion a year to our states economy. State farmers are first in the nation for value of product produced per acre. First in the number of lima beans harvested. First in i think in sussex county, which is the Third Largest county in america, third in production of chickens by county. We do all of this while practicing exceptional Environmental Stewardship while our Farming Community is working closely in partnership with usda, with state agencies and our universities. Our nations environmental laws have been instrumental in helping us deliver clean air, clean water and productive lands for our farmers and our ranchers, and i should add that a list to to that list our foresters, our fishing communities because their success is also greatly dependent on a healthy environment and vital ecosystems. For example, epa has found that the 2005 Clean Air Act rules that protect our lungs from ground smog also protect our crops. And animals. To the tune of 13 billion in estimated benefits by 2020. The clear air act also protects crops from damaging ultra violet radiation by protecting the planets ozone layer and limiting the use of ozone deplating chemicals. It turns out those clean air protections will produce a 7. 5 of drop in crop yields in 2075. There are other Environmental Issues where we need to act and do more to help our farmers. For example, Climate Change is already disrupting the livelihood of farmers and ranchers. The federal governments Third National Climate Assessment found that, and i quote, climate disruption to Agricultural Production have increased in the past 40 years and are projected to increase over the next 25 years. By midcentury and beyond, these impacts will be increasingly negative on crops and livestock, closed quote. The report issued in november of 2017 confirmed these trends. I look forward to hearing the testimony of our witnesses on this topic. Other Environmental Programs have created new Income Opportunities for farmers. The renewable fuel standard has been a Major Economic driver in farm communities across our country. In addition, tens of thousands of farmers across our country are enrolled in usdas Conservation Programs that pay farmers for the Water Quality and Habitat Conservation services they provide and protect. I acknowledge, though, that sometimes environmental requirements can be complex. The chairmans referred to this already. But those requirements can be confusing to those who farm. One such example is the air emissions reporting requirement for farms under two laws. The comprehensive Environmental Response compensation and Liability Act known as cercla, and known as epcra. The Bush Administration promulgated a rule that exempted all but the largest farms from reporting under these laws. In 2017, the d. C. Circuit court overturned the 2008 rule, putting farmers on notice they would soon need to begin reporting. Unfortunately, epas reporting guidance has been confusing and unhelpful. Along with a number of other colleagues here in this room and outside this room, ive been pushing epa for several months to do better. Epa agreed it had more work to do, at our urging agreed to request more time from the court to continue developing workable guidance, and if necessary, to give congress the time to act on this issue. Thankfully, the court agreed. Last week, as we know, gave epa until may 1st to get this right. With the 2008 rule no longer in place, im committed to working with towards a solution that balances the burden of this reporting on our farmers with the legitimate needs of Public Health and Emergency Response officials. And the right of local Community Members to know about the pollution in their air. This is what the Bush Administration sought to do in 2008, and it is how i believe we should proceed now. If i could, mr. Chairman, just a quick word of introduction im tempted just to read his bio. I wont do that. But really an incredible record of service and achievement. The scuse family is highly regarded in our state. We have three counties. Just lower to those in the middle of our state just north of dover. The scuse family has farmed there forever and enjoyed Great Success and really been a role model for a lot of folks in farming and outside of farming. I mentioned in my statement that farmers were our first original conservationists. The scuse family is a great example of that. In addition to serving and the work hes done with his own family business, hes served as our secretary of agriculture, not once, almost eight years under governor he also served as her chief of staff for a period of time. In the Current Administration of governor john carney, hes eye secretary of agriculture. Were delighted that he is. In addition to that, he was asking the Obama Administration to come down here and to serve in washington in a number of Senior Leadership positions, including undersecretary at the department of ag, acting deputy secretary of agriculture. Acting secretary of agriculture for our country. Its just extraordinary. And im just thrilled that he can be here today. Hes a good friend. Someone that im honored to say hes a delawarean and were honored youre here with us today, michael, and i absolute you for tall youve done and continue to do. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, senator carper. We have a number of introductions to be made. Senator ernest and senator moran have introductions. Senator ernest. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ed to i have the great hop of introducing a fill low iowan, dr. Howard hill, and as a veterinarian with iowa select farms. Previously, dr. Hill was director of the Veterinarian Services for Murphy Family farms in rose hill, North Carolina, and was head of veterinary microbiology in the Iowa State University diagnostic laboratory. Dr. Hill served as president of the nppc for the 2014 2015 term and prior to that was a member of the nppc board of directors, serving on a number of committees and cochairing the environmental policy committee. He also served on the board of directors of the iowa pork producers, where he was the chairman of the Research Committee and the contract growers committee. Dr. Hill owns sow farm which produces breeding stock. He partners with his son on the family farm where they have a purebred angus herd and 2,500 acres of row crops. Thank you for being here today, dr. Hill. We look forward to hearing your testimony. Thank you so much. Thank you, senator ernest. Senator moran . Thank to you and the Ranking Member for having our hearing. Its my honor to introduce a kansas farmer from wheaten, kansas, in the North Central part of our state. Don has been actively engaged in the National Farmers union, the Kansas Farmers Union for a very long time. He is a leader in agriculture in Rural America and i hold don in high regard for his love for and passion for small towns across our state and he recognizes that if Rural America is going to have a future, its because farmers and ranchers are having success. I appreciate him. Especially here on the conservation issue, he has a great love for the land and understands how important clear skies and good soil and clean water is to kansans across our state. So, don, i welcome you to the committee and thank you for your testimony. I look forward to hearing it. Thank you, senator moran. We also have joining the panel mr. Duval. The president of the American Farm bureau federation. But first, were going to hear from mr. Hanson. Niels joins us today from recall raulings, wyoming. For the public lands council. A Third Generation rancher, niels knows that raising cattle, sheep and horses is full of challenges. Over the years, niels has worked with the university of wyoming and the bureau of Land Management to develop cooperative range land monitoring, which has allowed niels to become internately familiar with both the needs of his livestock and range land ecosystems. His successful stewardship is evident in the longevity of his family ranch, which has also been recognized for many years in wyoming and nationally. The bureau of Land Management recognized nielss range with a stewardship award in 2000 and in 2001, the ranch was named the Little Snake River conservation district cooperator of the year. Niels has been recognized repeatedly for his leadership in the industry and in his community. He has served as a member of the search and rescue and was inducted into the wyoming agriculture hall of fame in 2011. Niels, im pleased to have you here today to lend your wealth of experience with the committee. I ask that you please proceed. Thank you, chairman barrasso, Ranking Member carper, members of the committee. Thank you for having me here today to address the federal regulations effect how the federal regulations affect my ranch and others across the country. My name is niels hansen. My family has been ranching in our area for 120 years. Today my son is hope taking care of the ranch so that i can be here with you today to discuss these issues. As stated, im the past chairman of the wyoming state grazing board. Member of the National Cattlemans Association and i currently serve as secretary treasurer for the National Public lands council. Our ranch covers 230,000 acres of ground in central wyoming, consists of private and blm in the checker board land pattern. And we spanned over three watersheds. Beyond ranching, i spent much of the last 30 years working on these issues that were discussing today in wyoming, in washington, d. C. And across the west. As recently as last week at the national cattlemans convention, i taught a class on working with federal agencies and trying to educate people how to get along and work towards a goal. In our interactions with the federal agencies, our First Priority is always to identify Common Ground and to Work Together. But we are constantly tangled in a web of federal regulations. Im here today to talk to about just a few of those regulations that impact my ranch and my family. As long as it remains on the books, the obamaera wotus rule continues to be a serious threat to our operation. On our ranch, we wrestle with the management of three watersheds. None of them drain directly into adjacent federal waurtsd waters. But under the ambiguous and overreaching 2015 rule, its impossible to know whether we are exempt or not. As a family rancher, i should not need to hire hydrologists, engineers and attorneys to figure this out. Im grateful for the administration has taken steps to roll back this rule and replace it with something more workable. But more work still needs to be done. The ranching Community Stands ready to help in any way we can. Another regulation i shouldnt be wrestling with in our cow calf operation is the reporting requirements under cercla and epcra. The simple fact is emissions from normal livestock operations should not be covered under this rule. In particular, it is absurd to require such reporting for a 3,000head operation like mine spread across 60 square miles. Such as operation would never require a coordinated Emergency Response. Congress needs to fix this. As we all know, you cant discuss ranching anywhere in the country without taking into account wildlife management. Two pieces of legislation that make it very difficult for me are the endangered species act and the Migratory Bird act. However wellintended, esa is 40 years old. It needs to be updated to reflect the Lessons Learned and the issues of today. The path forward must work for all. Not just environmental litigants that pay their bills with proceeds from legal settlements. Our best opportunity is to mode modernize is from last years recommendations to this committee. But addressing this does not solve the problem. Migratory bird act working so well that populations of ravens are exploding on my ranch and around the west. This act allows for portional response to growing populations that threatens the sage gross and live stocstock. For me its the rave ancns, in r parts of the country, vultures and other predators are the issue. In conclusion, please recognize that the ranchers are your eyes and ears on the land. We are your best tool to achieve any real conservation objectives on the ground. Turn us loose. No one is more dedicated to the health of the land than those of us dependent on us. Let the ranchers do what we do best, everyone will benefit, the species, ecosystem, and the Rural Communities. Thank you again for hearing my testimony. I look forward to answering any questions. Well, thank you so much for traveling here from wyoming and thanks for that excellent testimony. We appreciate it. Mr. Duval. Good morning, chairman barrasso and Ranking Member carper and members of the committee, i appreciate the opportunity to come talk to you about real world impact on over regulation of farmers and ran cheers. My name is zippy duval and im a beef Poultry Farmer in georgia. My son is home hes fourth generation and large animal veterinarian medicine in our community. I was elected two years ago and visited farms all 50 states since i became president and talked to them about the things that keep them a wake at night. The two issues that come up every farm i vitssited was lackf labor and over regulation on their farms. Decades of straight tive and judicial decisions l without much effort to integrate these decisions into a system that makes sense to all of us. Farmers and r farmers and ranchers have shared their stories on regulations as i visited them. In West Virginia ar Poultry Farmer who spending tens of thousands of dollars of legal bills to defend her farm in court against epa misinterpretation of the clean water act. Federal officers without any authority from congress and without Public Notice have used water mounds to extortion against ranchers in utah to force them to hand over their private water rights as a condition of getting federal grazing permits. The endamaged species act has not been successful in recovering listed species. Only 50 species has been recovered out of 661 species listed in the past 45 yeersars. Thats 3 success rate. Species has gone extinct under this. Meanwhile, epa has made it hard to use their live stock. Meanwhile, waters of the u. S. Rule ee pip mices failure f our current re current regulatory system. The law that governs this process straight tive procedure act is more than 70 years old. And its way overdue for reform especially when you consider how social media can shape public input. Finally, mr. Chairman, i have met farmers and ranchers who are not sure they want to remind their children to stayen 0 the farnl. And i have to remind you 58 years old. Theyll be hanging up their hats within a few years. And we need to ask ourselves who is going to be willing to step up and take the place to grow the food for our tables in america and around the world. As committed as young people are, like my son zeb who are farming and ranching, they cannot continue if over regulatory continues to grow. Farm income is down 50 compared to five years ago, but i assure you the regulatory cost vs. Not gone down any. These facts would give pause to even the most dedicated farmer and rancher around this country. I would like to close with a quote from states man from my home state. President jimmy carter. He signed an executive order on march 1978 that states, regulations should not impose unnecessary burdens on the economy, on the individuals, on public or private organizations or on state or local governments. Regulations should be developed through a process which ensures compliance costs, paperwork and other burdens on the public are minimized. And then there is President Trump executive order of a year ago that requires agencies to to repeal two rules for everyone rule that they issue. And in signing that executive order the president said, every regulation should have to pass a simple test. Does this make life better or safer for American Workers and consumers. This is not a partisan issue. This is about allowing our farmers and businesses to be productive. Its about a goal that i believe that we all share, a regulatory process that is credible, one that we can get behind instead of having to fight against. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and im glad to answer any questions that you and your colleagues have. Thank you very much, mr. Duval for your testimony. Dr. Hill. Good morning, chairman barrasso, Ranking Member, and members of the state. And iowa farmers. My name is dr. Howard hill im a veterinarian and past president of Pork Producer Council on whose behalf im testifying today. They manage their animals to protect water and the air quality and to maximize the maneuver benefit and value as vital vours of knew ents for crops we grou. Mppc and pork producers have a long history of working with state and local levels and grounded in three primary principles. One, environmental expectations for producers have a high probability of results in meaningful environmental improvements. Two, measures involved are practical and affordable. And, three, producers are given a realistic amount of time to adopt the measures and associated systems to their operations so they can continue to be profitable and successful. Mmpc has worked with epa on numerous occasions to make sure they meet the principles and ultimately protect the environment. One of the best examples was National Air Emissions Monitoring study of the emissions of swine operations. Pork producers used about 6 million of their own funds to support that epa supervised third party study and approximately 5,000 swine facilities enrolled in the epa in air consent agreements that made the work possible. But when necessary, mmpc will fight bad Environmental Policies and programs. Pork producers do not oppose environmental regulations but theyll oppose rules not sound, effective, and practical. And an example of ladders requirement to report error emission releases. Almost all live stock farmers are now required to report ammonia emissions from animal waste. When they did the rules in 2008 all the live stock farmers were exempt from that because producers never rou tuned the epa emissions from maneuver constituted the type of emergency or crisis that cirque la or ep ka were intended to address. Animal agriculture never new farm emissions would have support of the legitimate Emergency Response purpose of those regulations. The reports that required under ep kra had to be made to state and local Emergency Response authorities in january 2009. At the time, epa completely dropped the ball. The agency failed to pro viewed any guidance to farmers how to report emissions. And it failed to provide guidance to the state and local agencies that were going to receive those reports. And as a result chaos ensued. Almost all producers trying to do emissions had difficulty getting through because phone lines. Those who did manage to get through and submit reports were met with disbelief and confusion. Statements such as why are you submitting this to us . And what are we supposed to do with this information was common . In illinois farmers were told no rule reporting and this was merely an internet hoax. In the southeast epa told local authorities that the reports were supposed to be submitted to epa. Epa aerks water office. In the wake of that kay as, mmcc and other groups in early 2009 filed lawsuits challenging epa 2008 rule. Last april, dc circuit finally ruled in the case throwing out exemption from the two reporting rules and forcing tens of thousands of live stock farmers to figure out how to estimate and report he emissions. Latest industry estimate now subject to reporting requirements is over 200,000. While the pork industry is certainly prepared to comply with these rules once the appeal courts mandates take effect, it should be noted epa, u. S. Coast guard and state and local Emergency Response authorities have all gone on record saying not only is there no need for this information, but that its volume will create a Major Management challenge for them and that it will interfere with other legitimate emergency functions. It is for this reason that mmpc is supporting a legislative fix to address the requirements in cirque la and if possible ep kra and we urge members of this committee to do likewise. To conclude, pork producers are proud of their environmental efforts over the past 50 years period seen pork produced doubled while the use of feed, water and land has been reduced and our Carbon Footprint has decreased by 35 . Mm pc and u. S. Pork industry stand ready to work with congress, federal and state agency to improve Environmental Stewardship efforts and to address new challenges. Thank you. Thank you very much, dr. Hill. Secretary scuse. Good morning, chairman barrasso and Ranking Member car poe and members of the committee. I appreciate ht invitation to speak to you today about the impacts of federal regulations and policies on American Farming and ranching communities. Delaware has benefited from many of the Environmental Policies and regulations that have come from federal partners. We are able to see examples on a daily basis that are benefiting not only our family farms, but also the state and efforts to improve the over all environment. Middletown, delaware once a large Farming Community continues to have good neighborly relations today. While understanding of agricultural the same, they have embraced through education from the local science programs as well as farm groups. As you can imagine, the in flux of additional residents has increased, usage of Water Resources while farmers still need to irrigate their crops. Through the towns waste Water Treatment plant, it is recycled and used to spray irrigation on neighboring farms. Algs part of the chesapeake water shed making sure water shed does not ho curve is extremely important. Delaware farmers conservation practices by research. Moans provided for conservation districts and supplemented by u. S. Da has been extremely important in enhancing and spourtding the usage of cover crops. These crops not only can reduce the amount of soil loss from wind and water erosion, but can also skaf ennutrients and release them during the next growing season. Epa has helped generate management programs in the country thanks to now senator carper, then governor carper where the talented staff dedicated to helping farm es and protecting the environment, we have been updating meet tg the regulations set forth by epa. We have been able to do modeling and enhance data. The renewal fuel standard has increased demand for corn. In 2,000, 10 million bush chels of corn. By 2014, they were producing 14. 6 billion to meet the demand. Air qualities and lessens demand on that, but additional feed markets. Powellry poultry relocation, it is offered alternative options. The program is also created compost products and pilot Energy Generation projects. And delaware we have noted Climate Changes including patterns of increased temperature with risk of drought and extreme rainfall. In addition to the obvious effects of increasingly frequent drought condition, Climate Change is also predicted to result in higher frequency and intense rainstorms. Increasing intervals of intense storms presents a risk for agricultural and practices designed for trapping and treating capacity for storm water or combined water flows from agricultural areas. These intense rainfall events will impact crops as timing of these intense rain false could result in crop failures such as when the crop has not emerged in early development. And thus more susceptible to flooding. In some cases rain full older crops, particularly fruits and vegetables like watermelons. Likewise warmer temperatures fruit tree earlier blossom which increase of froze damage. Lastly, as the Climate Changes, there is the chance that certain agricultural may expand ranks. For instance, some pet ranges may have been limited but area rises then that pest now is able to expand range and survive where it previous will i could not. Delaware Agricultural Department is partnering on conservation through programs like the Environmental Centers program that help with cover crops and practices that improve our environment and the Agricultural Conservation Easement Program that benefit delaware preservation program. But there is a need for streamlining efforts. They instituted replacing an Older Program and took us three years of negotiation until terms were agreed upon and those three years delaware lost funding. The uncertainty and continuation of deadlines has caused confusion and need for a fix. We cannot keep putting farmers on notice wondering when they will be hit for untimely or inaccurate reporting. Farmers tan ranchers value and understand the need to protect waters of the ufs. Department of agriculture and statsds are willing to put the effort to assist farmers but we would appreciate a common sense approach to address the issues as well as timely outreach and education materials to help us. We need a clear definition that is objective. Finally, additional option to improving environmental conditions would be to remove environmental license tive acreage from consideration. Changing the program acreage from 24 million to 30 million acres. Ladies and gentlemen, our farmers and ranchers are in fact the first true environmental. And i want to thank you you for the opportunity to be here. Thank you for your testimony. Mr. Teske. Thank you, chairman barrasso, Ranking Member carper for this opportunity to visit today, and especially thank you senator moran for that more than gracious introduction. Ive had the honor of considering the senator a friends for many, many years, and the bad thing about that is he knows all the dirt on me. So this makes me a little nervous, but my wife kathy and i farm a farm operation in kansas on the eastern edge of the foothills ranching and cropping. We farm it along with our children and grandchildren. And we have a slug of grandchildren. Grandchildren are fun. Im the fifth generation on the farm, god willing our children will be the sixth and grandchildren seven. And my goal here today is to Work Together to try to figure out how to give them a worlgd they can prosper and thrive in. I currently serve as Vice President of farmers union. Im not quite sure how that worked out. But when i was contacted to visit with you today, my initial thoughts were to decline the invitation. I thought it would be to controversial and didnt think i was any expert to talk about it. Upon further contemplation, i kind of suspected that most of the testimony would be pretty aggressively antagonistic, and i see that was right. And i thought maybe my experiences with epa and some of my thoughts could bring some perspective to it all. So this is a good discussion to have. Most of us in this room are of the age to remember when the rivers were burning in our cities. We fixed them. It didnt break us. Our goal through this is to create a world for our grandchildren that they can thrive and prosper in, and its our responsibility. This isnt something to push off on our children. And its too late for our ancestors. So somehow we need to figure out how to Work Together to protect our environment and to allow our farmers to farm profitably. And we can do that. But throwing the baby out with the bath water by eliminating all regulations is irresponsible. So we need to Work Together and think how to do this. So ive already got robs ulcer acting up because im rambling away from the script but hell have to put up with that. My next thing i wanted to talk about was lotus. When lotus was introduced created a backlash and rightly so. It wasnt prepared right. It wasnt introduced right. And administrator jackson appointed me to farmer Rancher Advisory Committee to the epa. And then later on administer mccarthy repointed me to that. And its called, and i have to read it off, and i have abut ton and i cant remember how to say it, its the farm ranch federal advisory committee. So, anyhow, thats actually a pretty good deal. I consider it a conduit between Rural America and the epa, and thats a good thing. We were never brought in to this discussion as lotus was developed or introduced. And i wonder how a farmer relationship in there might have changed that and how it might have been perceived. Another grumbling point along that is the fact that in over a year we have not had a phone call or email. So it shouldnt really matter what administration is in charge. I think the communication between Rural America and epa will be a good thing. Why has that ceased to happen . I need to hurry up or i wont cover the top parts. In the 1990s i worked for the kansas clean water. This is a winwin thing. This was epa 319 funds. And i worked with farmers across the state of kansas improving the Water Quality. They get a grant to help them. We would host tours. It was all just great. And this is an example of how good things can happen as you do this. Another great thing was farmers unions carbon program. We were the nations needing in carbon sequestration. It was modeled after the iowa farm bureau. We had over 5 million acres in Carbon Emissions and they got a paid a stipend for that. These are good things. The renewal fuel standard. I got 7 seconds to talk about it. Keep it. Its a good deal. [ laughter ] thank you. Well, thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you, senator moran for taking a picture of him as he just concludes that testimony. [ laughter ] he can keep talking if you need to take more. Take three or four. Never uses all his time. There you go. Let me started with this. Mr. Secretary, i noted that you gave positive remarks about the renewable fuel standard in your testimony. I would just note that last week your boss, governor of delaware petitioned epa to reduce the burdens of the renewal fuel standard on refinery ns delaware and across the country. Your governor actually stated that the rfs, he said, quote, will undoubtedly severely harm the state of delaware entire middle atlantic region, and the national economy. And i ask unanimous consent to enter that petition into the record. Mr. Hansen, like many producers in the west, you have a great deal of experience dealing with federal agencies that administer grazing permits. Youve also worked for decades with the agencies, university of wyoming, state experts, to develop and main coordinate ecosystem monitoring. So you have seen the process in action countless times. Can you describe for me the differences youve seen between federal nepa processing and the state process for things like range management, economic value in terms of value of public lands . Thank you, mr. Chairman. When we are working with the state of wyoming, probably Biggest Issue we deal with is water development. And we are generally looking at about a six month process to turn the permits around with the state of wyoming. Depending on which water shed im in, working with blm im guaranteed at least a year, probably two, occasionally more. The paperwork and time involved is just ridiculous and very burdensome. So in your discussion with fellow ranchers in wyoming, and rumor or less confident in direction under this administration versus dealing with the Previous Administration . Yes, very much so. What do you think has changed in making things better for farming in wyoming and other states . Definitely have a can do attitude in the agencies. There is a desire to work with the people on the land again back to what we had prior to the last administration. We had people in the agencies that were reaching out and identifying issues that we could get together on. Prior to that it was very negative environment and morale in the agencies was horrible. We were using good people right and left. I think the end the answer to your previous question you talked about how much time it takes to do some of this federal paperwork. In 2008 when the epa provided exemption to small farms and ranches from reporting animal waste, they determined that it would reduce the time burden . This was estimation in 2008. 1,000,290 hours over a ten year period. Now the Dc Circuit Court overturned that exemption in april of 2017 forcing farmers to report all these things. So id say, mr. Hansen, mr. Hill t a , and duval, producers you represent, do they have the ability to spend this kind of time trying to comply with these kind of laws . Mr. Chairman, the major problem, no, we dont have the time, but we dont have the tools. Its impossible. Mr. Duval . Yes, sir. And you know when we start thinking about reporting, and i expected this question probably come up, because it is a big issue across farmland, there is an individual farmer concern that we have, but id like for the committee to think about two other concerns. One being Public Safety concerns. You know, if we ask 200,000 farmers to report to the National Response center, which they have to respond to, it will overwhelm them and draw resources away from actual emergencies. The second issue id like for you to think about is National Security issue. Because as i farm or start reporting their animals and whats been omitted there, then we are going to create a road map that anybody can find any farm anywhere where our food system is produced. And those people that lurk around our world trying to do harm to our country and to our people will have access to our food supply. And that is a very dangerous area to go into. And then ill talk about the individual farmer. The individual farmer will have to give up his personal information where he lives, and that puts him, exposes him to be harassed by activists around that, and dont think it doesnt happen, because it is happening. Dr. Hill, anything youd like to add to that . Yes, as my friend from woo wyoming said we dont have the tools to do that. And the study was designed to help epa develop the factors, aen that program was done back in early 2,000s and hasnt been completed. We would at least see those factors developed so that producers do have some way of estimate tg. And it would only be estimates of what their emissions are in case they do have to report t the other thing is we dont consider farming and the emissions from a farm as an emergency. Thats an every day process. And we ask ourselves who wants this information. And in some cases its the advocates that dont want livestock production and they can miss hughes that information. In the case of press tig farms trying to build a parking plant in may son city, iowa, they reported back in earlier their emissions and 45 farms, and the activists brought that information and made the people in the community believe that those 45 reports were violations and got the people so roused that they eventually voted down allowing that packing plant to occur. Tlauhank you very much. Senator carper. Ill ask senator booker to yield. Before i do that is correct ill ask submit to the record a document pointed out by secretary scuse in delaware and other parts of our country. The issue thats before us here is east coast refineries and how they are affected by the volatility of the lack of clarity openness if you will. And that is the issue that our governor is raising. We actually need epa can help us revolve thsolve this and we they will. Without objection. Senator booker. Thank you very much chairman barrasso and thank you for your generosity senator carper. In 2006 residents from North Carolina came to washington asking for help. Now they are about 60,000 people that actually live in this country North Carolina but more than 2 million pigs. As you probably know. By living near the la goons and pray fields. I was so astonished, we dont have these in new jersey, i went down to the county to see firsthand what was going on. I saw the pig waste being sprayed. I watched it with my own eyes. I saw how it was coming off of the fields going into the local community. And the wretched smell every where we went around there, in peoples communities and homes is something i wont forget. I met with local residents in the large group and heard their stories how their water was poisoned and felt like prisoners in their own homes because they couldnt open their windows. So i agree we have to make sure farmers do not have unnecessary red tape, but i also know something has to be done about these horrible conditions i saw that nobody would want their families to live in thats harming farmers and local communities they live in. And i really want to be clear here because i do not think it should be contract farmers who too are living in challenging conditions, often making very low wages, really rough margins. I dont think these folks, these good hard working americans, hard working people ive met, they should not have the to solve this problem. Its the big, huge integrate ors who make billions of dollars in profit with one of the Biggest Company is chine owes own company that in many ways with the pork being shipped to their country outsourcing these problems to us while taking the benefit of our pork. And so mr. Hill my time is short. But this is one of the painful things ive seen as an american. And its the long answer to the question im sure, so just to respect my time, limited time, could you please provide to me a written response for the record about what steps your induce rye is taking to reduce the harmful impact of the kind of chaos i saw and the effects on real american people. Can you provide that to me in writing, sir. Possibly we could do that. We have the largest population of swine in iowa. And weve used new technology to apply manure. We dont see that as sir, just for my own time. I apologize. Could you just respond in writing . What i saw there, no human beings should have to live in those conditions. The Property Value has gone way down. People have been in there since 1800s. Please respond to me in writing. Because i have other questions. Mr. Hill, some of these farmers are behind you credible americans who i have come to respect. They are here in the hearing room today including hog farmers. They have serious concerns about some other things. Check off funds from the pork to your organization pork producers counsel were improper and they said they must stop. Senator lee, republican senator from utah, and i have introduced bipartisan bill that would make reforms to the check off program. And so do you agree that it would be beneficial to make those programs more transparent, family farmers like the folks behind you doing so much of the real work in america, can quickly see for the expenditures approved by the epa, and do you agree its good to have period particular independent audit of those check off programs . Fundamental fairness for again these small family farmers struggling so much. And do you agree that check off funds should only be used in ways that benefit all farmers paying into them, especially and including a small family farmers that are here today . And they are. They are being used to the benefit of everybody. We export now 26 of all of your pork. That increases value of every pig about 50. In 1993, we were net importer of pork. So those funds are used for a lot of different things, but part of it is used for developing customers outside of the United States which our industry depends on which helps every producer thats raising pig. Sir, my time is expired, mr. Chairman, but a judge has disagreed with the gentlemens answer and you can see from the heads shaking back and forth no, a whole bunch of local farmers around this country not getting the benefit and feel mistreated by this program. I think its something that we should reform and change. Thank you, senator. Senator inhofe. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And you know, my working on this committee and having chaired the committee for a number of years, its not difficult to understand and come to the conclusion that a lot of these costly and outrageous rules are about one thing and one thing only, and thats control. Primarily federal control. Ive looked at some of the regulations that this administration has done away with, and i tie that directly to this economic success that is coming in and jumping up from the 1. 5 to over 3 a year. And good things are happening. One of the regulations that i was trying to do away with a year ago was first one president was successful in doing away with congressional review process, was a rule that was put in by the Previous Administration that said that if you are a domestic oil or gas company and competing with china or someone else, you have to give them all of the playbook you are using, actually putting them at a disadvantage over our opposition overseas. Now, it was easy to draw up a cra and pass it, and it did pass, we had assigning ceremony. But the fact that we have all these regulations out there its pretty outrageous. Mr. Duval, you mentioned in your Opening Statement you talked about the lotus bill. I know when i went around my state of oklahoma before, you took a position, and most of the other organizations took the same position representing farmers, that in my area of oklahoma and western oklahoma, its very arid. And those people out there all the regulations put in by the Previous Administration, that was the number one regulation, and ended up being the number one regulation also from the American Farm bureau and other organizations. So i would just ask you if there is anything that you didnt say about that particular regulation that would either be costly, how it would be costly, or in convenient, and have a negative effect . Yes, sir. If you start looking at some of the conservation practices that we put on the ground to protect our soil and water on our farms, and you start transitioning land from one use to another, not commercial or agricultural but one agricultural practice to another, there are unbelievable permitting procedures in certain areas of the country or the country has to go through to be table to do that. Are you familiar with the panhandle of oklahoma . Not really. I am. That was their concern was after arraign that could all of a sudden be considered to be a wet land, and all of a sudden you lose the state jurisdiction and federal jurisdiction takes over. Is that one do you see that consistently around the country . I see it consistently. And also i see variance of determination agencies whats a wetland and whats not. Its unclear to farmers how they can perceive what their land is really is. I appreciate that very much. Because that certainly is true. Mr. Hansen, i want to do this real quickly here, because you probably are familiar with what we tried to do with the lesser prairie chicken. We got together and what kind of reforms they could have. And everyone agreed it was near perfect. It was everyone deciding at home what the solution was. N now, you sometimes wonder, if we go through all that, the private sector and the land owners, and the land owners we know are the most concerned about the endamag endangered species, what you look at others doing thatt, and the government doesnt seem to put much weight behind them . Im talking about local programs that are working. Have you ever think about that mr. Hansen . All the time, senator. Its very frustrating to work on trying to find a solution to an issue thats identified on the land and then have the rug pulled out from under you. In the situation you addressed, the fish and Wildfire Service was privy to all the negotiations. They knew what was coming. They agreed to t and pulled the rug out. Thats exactly what happened. By the way, fish and wildlife did agree, and also agreed the best steward of the land are the land owners themselves. So they need to be listened to also. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, senator. Now senator carper. Im happy to yield to senator merkley and ask some questions later. Thank you. We appreciate you bringing your experiences here to capitol hill. One of the things that is important to my farmers back in oregon is the Agricultural Research service. Administration had proposed significant cut, 360 million cut to ars and closing 17 ars laboratories across the country. And on a bipartisan basis, we worked to keep that program recognizing its impact on the yield of our crops, new diseases, and the importance of exploring the qualities of different plants work under different conditions. So i wanted to ask you, mr. Duval, with your role, do you support the Agricultural Research service . Do you think its important . By all means. Its important for our countsry to invest in agricultural business. If you look around the world we are being out spent in investmeresearch dollars. And thats a recall larming to. So research and development is key thing we need to do to help our farmers being on the cutting edge. Im not sure what the next trump budget will look like. Well have it soon. But if it proposes cuts again i hope well have your support in continuing those programs. My second piece that is important to a number of farmers and ranchers are the Conservation Programs. This weekend i was out visiting 16 little towns in northeast oregon. And in one of the towns i met with a rancher also a local county commissioner and he said his ranching operation would have gone down if it wasnt for the Conservation Program that helped provide support and resources to make the balance, if you will, the books balance. And i hadnt heard it put in quite those times making it or not making it. But in general is the farm bureau supportive of this . Yes, sir. You have hit on another topic important to us. As farmers we want to be able to take care of our land and our water. So to have a partnership through those programs with general public and government, a partner ship t and ill emphasize that, to help us do the right thing, help us do the right thing, because we are making huge investments our self in those same projects. Well, these are voluntary programs so i think its pretty much a winwin for everyone. Its volunteering and cost sharing. By the way, he also talked to me about his concern on the sage grouse. Because weve had a voluntary program where ranchers can adopt a certain amount of measures and they are protected from anything, any rules that the endangered rules they mate evoke in the future. We had hundreds sign up in oregon. Im not asking a question about it. Just noting they are very concerned about the partnership that had been put together to try to avoid a listing might fall apart under some of the pressures from the Current Administration. I also wanted to ask about the agricultural workforce. Many of us here from our orchards, wine makers, growers in many every field, the importance of farm makers to make that economy function and a whole lot of traditional workers that have been there year after year are not showing up under the current commentary and attitude towards the role of farm workers. And does the farm bureau support working to oceessentially embra the role of farm workers as our economy . Existing farm workers in the country are skilled workers and our business requires skilled worker and vitally important. Its a hard to be productive, add to the community, and be able to create additional jobs, whether it be on the farm or manufacturing or performing finished products of our commodities after we grow them. So it is a critical issue. It is the most restraining issue we have outside of regulation. I certainly look forward to working with you all as we endeavor to address this challenge. I thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator merkley. My colleague on the hill outlined this. And i want to give you an opportunity to respond to that. Because the response on the record will be helpful to hundreds of people, but thousands of people listening on television, i think they need to know, that i think what you are about to tell us is that it doesnt have to be that way. And in your farms in iowa you have a solution there. But what we are talking about with regard to cirque la and ep kra is reporting requirement, right. And congress thought we thought we had recognized that certain farmers should be excluded from this reporting requirement. And u. S. Court of appeals for the d. C. Circuit disagreed with this exemption. Decision has now been stayed. And farmers really dont know where they are. I notice that mr. Scuse in his testimony, secretary scuse said that we need a legislative fix. And i think probably dr. Hill and mr. Duval, you agree with that. Mr. Scuse, we cannot keep putting farmers on notice wondering when theyll be hit with legal liability for untimely or inaccurate reporting. So i think maybe we have a bipartisan support here and consensus that we need a legislative fix. Well tell the members of the panel that senator fischer and senator donnelly, a republican and a democrat intend to introduce legislation this week, the fair agricultural reporting method act, which would clarify this rule to exempt all animal feeding operations from sir la reporting and small operations from ep kra reporting requirements. So if you could speak to that, dr. Hill, and mr. Duval, but also go ahead and finish your thought which might give reassurance to our friends in dublin county, North Carolina that they dont have to experience. First of all, i would support that bill 100 . We need clarity. What producers fear now is that they are going to use inadequate tools to try to estimate these emissions, and then if they are wrong, they are going to get huge penalties. So that bill would be supported by us. I think senator booker misrepresented the pork industry in North Carolina. I worked in North Carolina for five years. Thats a gross misrepresentation of the farms in North Carolina. They do use Different Technology than we do in iowa. They have a growing crop year round. We do not. So they can use spray fields to apply mainly the water the lagoons. Its not raw manure they are putting on the bermuda grass. In iowa, almost all manure is four to 6 inch, number one to prevent runoff, number two to prevent smell. So we feel like we have made tremendous progress in this manure application. And there is no technology for pit additives, polymers that reduce odor, that among with cover crops, tremendous increase in cover crops in iowa. So i think farmers are doing everything they can to be good stewards. Mr. Duval, what would they think of this legislation that i described from senator fischer and donnelly, aen do we agree what we are talking about here is unfortunate decision about the Circuit Court about a reporting requirement on these small operations . We do agree with that, senator, and we applaud the senators that are getting involved and trying to fix something that this is wrong, that is wrong. And be very difficult, my neighbor to my left here explained very eloquently, it would put our farmers at risk. I have 400 mamma cows, spread over 1,500 acres in george gia,w am i going to report that, and i have four chicken houses how am i going to report the emissions. It puts us at great disadvantage. And it was not intent of congress so we would agree with that and applaud it. Thank you very much. Thank you. Senator duckworth. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you to our witnesses for joining in this very important kfrngs. In my home state of illinois agricultural communities our back bone but also our heart. Ive witnessed firsthand how when our farmers thrive, the entire state thrives. One policy of critical importance to our farmers is the renewal fuel standard. Which requires our Transportation Fuel to be mixed with bio fuels. Since it was enacted policy has helped us cut our dependence on foreign oil and out greenhouse emissions which is critical to efforts to combat chiemt change. It is also an important economic policy. In illinois alone it supports more than 4,000 jobs and generates more than 5 million in impact. Nationwide supports 86,000 jobs and has helped generate 8. 7 billion in tax revenues, goes to schools, roads, firefighters, all the first responders. Mr. Scuse, can you help how its helping rural and agricultural communities . Sure. Thank you. I would like to comment on the chairmans comment earlier about Governor Carney and his opposition to the renewable fuel standard. It deals with the purchase of the rins or the credits and the blending and that is something that needs to be addressed because of the speculation that has driven the cost of those up. And that is something that does need to be addressed. But when you look at renewable fuel standard and what its been able to do for Rural Communities, we are producing 4. 6, 4. 8 bush chels of corner year. If we werent using 4. 5 bush che chels of that for the ethanol, the price of corn would be so far below production we would not be able to produce corn in this country. And when you look at the feed value of the biproduct, in 2012 when we had one of the worst drouts in the history of United States, those arguing to set the renewable fuel standard aside because of the fear there would not be enough corn, live stock produce ex i traveled across the United States talking to producers during the drought, live stock producers in every single state i visited said please do not allow epa to set that fuel standard aside. We need the grain to feed the live stock, whether it was the dairy, or pork or beef industry. So when you look at the money, and senator moran said it like you just did, health of the Rural Communities is dependent on the health and wellbeing of our farmers in this country. And renewable fuel standard has done that. Its got jobs and produced outlet for another crop they produce to help keep the Rural Communities viable. So changing bio fuel production in this country as epa administrator prewett has called to do for the rfs could actually negatively impact farm income . Yes, it could have and would have a large negative impact on the price that our producers are receiving for the corn that they produce. And the reality is most vehicles on the road today could use e15. And we now have stations across the United States that are now putting in blend pumps so that producers or consumers have a choice. They can get e15. And in many cases now stations that are providing e85. So i think thats the direction that we need to go in with renewable energy, not one that we have to pump out of the ground thats not renewable. And, again, this one is helping Rural Communities across the country and live stock producers. Thank you. Ive been burning e85 since 1986 so its cheaper and nice and clean. 50 of my state Drought Conditions and its on the rise. Whether you believe they are associated with changing climate. Fact is farmers say climate is changing and not for the better. As a leader in the community can you share what tools and researchers farmers need to help a dapt to these changing climate conditions . Thank you, senator duckworth. In my own, in kansas, its very obvious that we have a changing climate. And so, you know, i see farmers getting ready to plant corn and going out in the fields in march. And i shake my head. You know, there is a coffee shop thing that everybody gets their machines ready and they want to be the first ones out in the field. But, actually, its working more and more. And in my own operation, i was organic farmer for 13 years. I finally gave that up because of the changing weather patterns. And our springs has changed so much that it got to the point where i couldnt slip in between weather events and get the ground worked up and down and planted. So i had to change my operation to match the weather patterns. I wished i was still organic. Farmers are plantining more and more on catastrophic events. I heard governor iowa talking it was a goal of iowa dealing with Climate Change by tiling entire state. Weather patterns effect different areas dramatically. And i happen to be on top of the world, so i dont have to worry about floods, but i do have to worry about maintaining my stream banks and dealing with ever changing climate. Especially with the live stock. Thank you. Thank you, senator duckworth. Senator fischer. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I am very excited you are holding this hearing today. Im a rancher. And so i appreciate senator duckworths comments about farming and ranching communities as the backbone and the heart of the state. Because thats true in nebraska as well. So thank you, senator. And what a great panel we have. Farmers union, farm bureau, i loved your comments on the rfs and the e15. I have some legislation on that, so thats great. I appreciated dr. Hill that you had the opportunity to respond when senator wicker asked you earlier comments made by senator booker, so i appreciate that. My husband and i, we do have a cattle ranch. Our sons are fourth generation sand hills ranchers. We understand conservation. We understand being true environmentalists. Our family does. Our neighbors in the sand hills do. Ago producers all across the state of nebraska do. And ago producers farmers and ranchers all across the United States understand it. We take care of the land. We live on the land. We want clean we want clean air. We want clean water and we manage our livelihood, our lives we continue to reserve it for future generations. Im going to talk to another rancher now. When you in your statement you discussed reporting requirements for animal waste odors. Those are directed to National Response center. Thats operated by the United States coast guard. I dont know if people are aware of that. Facilitate a government coordinated response effort to animal waste odors. This really doesnt make a lot of sense. Not only is there no added value of these reporting requirements but the abundance of farm reports, thats going to jam up the response personnel at the National Response center and prevent them from responding. I think to true emergencies. Can you tell what theyll have to take to comply with all of these report requirements. Thank you, senator. We have no tools to do that. I cant answer the question. Im sorry. Then you cant fill out the report, right . Pardon . You cant fill out the report. Exactly. You both were talking about privacy concerns with these reports and also concerns with activists coming onto personnel private property. Do you have anything to add to comments that you made earlier on that, either one of you . We dont need to put any burden on them. When you give them a tool as far as reporting there and i would answer the same. We have no way of measuring that. The government could disagree with the sperd. You have written the compliance challenges producers face as a result of spill prevention control, the spcc rule. While were to act it includes a provision that i would champion that provide more flexibility, this overreach continues to weigh heavily on the minds of farmers and ranchers in nebraska and across our country. Thank you. We need the exempt the people out on the ground. The risk is minimal. S i dont know too many farms and ranches. The study leads to flawed decisions making. I would hope we could move ahead on the spcc and in other number of rules that are out there that people on the land, every day producers who are trying to take care of family, communities find such a disadvantage in trying to fight government every single day. Thank you. Thank you, senator fisher. I asked where did you get a name like zippy. He told me. I think its worth repeating. Mr. Duvall also known as zippy. This is the first time ive been asked that. Probably at a congressional hearing. In a congressional hearing. We could put you under oath if necessary. By my fathers words he said i was my mothers first csection, second child. He was wanting a big family so he could get all his farm work done. When it disappointed him. The nurse said thats a piece of cake, well put a zipper in her stomach. I got zipper and it got transferred over to zippy. Does not seem to have impeded your success in life. Thank you. I understaood you say theyv not heard from the committee. I thought i heard you say you talked about hearing from the Previous Administration with respect to the agriculture advisory committee. I think you said youve not heard yet by phone, by email, whatever from the Current Administration. Did i hear you correctly . Yes. Administrator mccarthy had reappointed me right before she left that position with the intention of having some continuation from the previous Advisory Group to the next Advisory Group. I would have like to thought if there was any action going on, i would have known about it. Its been total silence. Thank you. Help us to understand was it not the intention and the results of the Obama Administration clean water rule to create certain things in the regulatory process. I heard for years farmers didnt understand they need the clarity in terms of whether they would get in trouble. Developers needed clarity and certain predictability of whether they would get into trouble by developing or raise ing crops in ways inconsistent with the clean water act. We had farmers there, developers there. We had epa there. This was like a couple of years ago. What was needed in way of certainty. It sounds like from the testimony we heard here and comments in other places that that was everything was fine. We didnt have uncertainty before. I think we have a lot. What was an effort to try to deal with that. Your thoughts. Youre on the inside. Thank you, senator. We need to look at why all this happened. All of this results from a Supreme Court hearing with the epa in the chicago area. Write they deemed it was water of wetlands not connected to any other water. When you look at the confusion with that case and then the epa attempted to define what were waters of the u. S. And the overreach by the epa in attempting to come to what constituted waters of the u. S. I think thats when it started down the road to look at what does constitute waters of the u. S. What do we need to put in place to protect certain waters that we have across the United States. The last administration attempted to bring that certainty, in fact, to the producers and to other areas of the United States to show what, in fact, was the u. S. As the senator pointed out, there were the hearings in the state of delaware reached out to all of our communities that we thought would be impacted but unfortunately, i dont know senator that happened in other areas of the United States. This was an attempt by the Obama Administration to bring some clarity that was being demanded by all the sectors, not just the Agriculture Sector but other sectors that did constitute waters of the u. S. Thank you very much. My recollection was as the waters of the u. S. Were being developed four years of extensive Public Outreach and regulation development, four years. Hundreds of meetings, farmers, developers, state and local leaders and others, including in our state. Im told they were all responded to. I want to put that out there for the record. Thank you for your clarification as well. As i like to look for winwin opportunities, he does too. Rather than being in conflict, i see many potential opportunities for win win ow comes. For example, fertilizer could reduce farmers input cost. We often times hear about it but often times they prevent us from achieving these win win outcomes. We can help break down those barriers so we can seize these opportunities. Im going to start off. I called and was joking with him earlier. I said one of my favorite cds, Glen Campbells greatest hit. The chairman and i are big music buffs. The song was rhinestone cowboys. Youre the real deal. Would you lead us off. Were looking for win win. An example of another win win opportunity. You cited a number of them. Win win opportunities that cleaner environment, cleaner air, cleaner water and actually more profitable farming actually coexist well. They Work Together. They dont exclude each other. Another example of where we can do that. If you have an example of an area that you think is fertile for us to explore and participate to help nurture, wed be happy to do that. Zippy, you look like youre ready to say something. Theres a lot of situations where we have regulations that are overlapping and looking into things twice. Make the same judgment so its been doing for 40 years. Farmers and ranchers want to do the right thing. Were scared of our federal agencies now. Were fearful of them because we know they can cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars. We want to have agencies that are friendly to us. Were hoping we can work with you to make that happen. Thank you. Others, please. Mr. Hill. I would use the example of the Reduction Program that we have in iowa thats supported by our governor, our past governor and our Current Governor and also by our secretary agriculture. Its a voluntary cooperative project. Its funded by the state legislature for over a tenyear period for 300 million. Its projects that producers work in conjunction with state regulatory agencies to put processes in place to reduce run off, reduce contamination of water and its i think its the right way to go, a cooperative voluntary program rather than somebody from washington coming down and saying this is what you have to do. Producers respond to it a heck of a lot better. Thank you for that. Theres great example of every one working together to make that happen. The latest Chesapeake Bay model will show that delaware has had tremendous improvements in a very short period of time. We look at our heard about the act for those that are endangered species. There are some things that could be done differently but in my home state of delaware, your home state of delaware, governor, pretty much every day now im seeing bald eagles. Something when i was a child we never ever saw today. I meant philadelphia eagles. You lock at working together we theres a serious issues with honey pbees across the United States. Now we have states working with federal partners the plant milk weed along some of the highways to make sure that we have the proper habitat for those areas. I know theres legislation that youre working on here to renew that. The pesticide registration act that helps the companies do the research for our producers to help them do a better job and get better products to our producers. Theres another area where these things actually do work. Can there be a better job . Theres no doubt about it, senator. There can be better job in many of these areas. What we need to do when we start looking at regulation is working together with all of those that are ultimately impacted and listening and finding a solution. In that way, we can eliminate, in my opinion, some of the problems that we have had over past administrations with the implementation of regulation. If you approve that message, would you raise your hand. Let the record show the other four panelists raised their hand. Same question. Thank you, senator. Usually to mitigate climate problems. A huge part will be agricultural involvement. Were the stewards of the land. We can reimplement Carbon Trading program. Thats a win win all the way around. It can make significant differences quickly. It aint going to be the only solution to the problem but were a key part of it. The other one is the further evolution of the Renewable Fuels of renewable fuel standards. If we can grow beyond the status of pouring ethanol into crops and higher value crops that use less moisture and less nutriek s nutrients, we can see dramatic in the futures. Its a little town south of dover. We have great pressures in our state. A lot of people want to come to our beaches. We dont know who develop our states. One of the things we worked on when i was governor and before that, with your administration was how do we encourage farmers to stay on the land. One of the best ways to encourage farmers to stay on the land being able to make money and to be profitable. You mentioned a couple of things that will help to do that. I think we need to be mindful of that. Theres things that we disagree on that we talked about here today. Theres a lot we agreed on. Want a very conservative republican. The other a very liberal democrat. We decided focus on the 80 where we agree. Said the other 20 aside for another day. Thats the 8020 rule. Its a good rule for not just the health, education labor committee. Its a good rule for this committee and congress as a whole. This has been a wonderful hearing. Thanks for bringing this. Anything you would like to add . I would like to address the question. The field is ripe with opportunity in the west on fr l federal lands. On our operation its proven theres Common Ground and a lot of Common Ground. We also run into the headache of the federal regulation. We get tied up in the paper work, the Decision Making process on something that should be really simple to do. If we could get a lot of red tape pulled out. The timetables would really assist us in improving things on the land. Every time we do something good on the land, it affects everything. On our operation will be increased. Our elk population, our mule deer population, antelope and our livestocks creating a more profitable operation. Thank you. That was worth waiting for. Thanks very much. You said you didnt have the tools and time. You raised the issue about trying to report to this National Response center. Its the coast guard. They have expressed concern. This will overwhelm the capacity to deal with this. They estimate the volume of calls they get now, would increase to 100 calls to over a thousands hindering their own ability to respond to real emergencies. Thats the additional side of this. Sometimes government comes up with ideas and mandates that make it a lot harder that we need them to do. I do have one question. The core of engineers is the agency that makes the vast majority of jurisdictional determinations that identify waters that are regulated under the clean water act. According to testimony this Committee Heard last year in april, the core was not included in this whole process that we just had outlined here in terms of developing the 2015 lotus rule. Talk about a Million People testifying. They way were viable from a factual, viscientific legal bas. It would be difficult for the core leaders, regulatory and legal staff to advance and defend this rule. Thats the corps of engineers. They also testified that statements and characterizations is a joint product by the epa and the core. How much faith do we have in the current rule as opposed by the Previous Administration . We have no faith in it. In different core districts you have different people that is making those determination and judgments and it does no scientific basis they can base their decisions on. We can show you situation after situation where formers that spent money with consultants and lawyers and put in for a permit for core or regulatory personnel to say no, i dont agree with you and send you back to the drawing board to spend that money again and try to get them to agree. Its all over the board. Theres no consistency. He asked me what did we need in a clean water act. We ought to be right out in that field in our pick up and simply be able to identify whatandahalf navigatable waters are. We can create more job, add to our communities. Were not going to destroy. My land, every piece is like my house. I will not do anything to destroy or hurt my land. Without objection. To say the our friends and witnesses. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. Other members may submit questions for the record. We ask that you respond quickly. The record of this hearing will stay open for the next two weeks. I want to thank the witnesses for your time and testimony on this very important issue. Hearings adjourned. More on the budget tomorrow as va secretary David Shulkin testifies. Thats live at 8 00 a. M. On cspan3. Cspans washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up thursday morning, Virgin Islands Democratic Delegate discusses the committees recent decision to investigate white house vetting systems and the after math of the rob porter story. The power clash between the u. S. And china in the pacific. Theres a public shaming. Chinas lost a lot of face. Its hard for westerners to get an idea what that means to the asian culture. Especially someone that is big and proud. They came to never again mentality. They start after that sit up on this mind set we will build up our navy and build up our Missile Defense forces in such a way were never we never lose face like this again. Sunday night at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspans q and a. Today treasury secretary Stephen Mnuchin testified on the president s 2019 budget question. Here what he had to say about the tax reform law, next