Transcripts For CSPAN3 Jeb Bush On Education Savings Accounts 20180131

Good afternoon and welcome to the American Enterprise institute. Im resident scholar and Deputy Director of education policy studies here an aei. Im pleased to kick off the event on Education Savings Account and future of Education Choice. Our event today is straight forward. In a moment, i will give the podium to our speaker, governor jeb bush. Following his remarks on esas, i will join him on stage for a brief conversation together. Following that, my former colleague, Gerard Robinson, now executive director of the center for advancing opportunity, will join a distinguished group of panelist, which i will let him introduce in detail. But who will include adam pishack, john thnathan beckham lindsay burke. A little housekeeping, this is live streamed, full video available by the end of the day. We also have our friends at cspan who are broadcasting. We appreciate their service. For those watching at home or online, we have a hashtag for the event. Its jebbush aei. For those that would like to pose a question for later, we will be monitoring on twitter. This is National School choice week. And i think an ideal way to wrap it up is with a discussion of Education Savings Accounts. But im aware that some of you may be wondering why. Why should we care about Education Savings Accounts and probably handful, what are educati Education Savings Accounts. So Education Savings Accounts, or esas, are a mechanism or educational choice in six states now. Where parents can withdraw their children from Public Schools and the state will deposit public funds into an account that those parents can control and they use those funds for restricted uses but for a wide variety of educational services. These include private school tuition, but much, much more. By moving between schools we are movingon the idea of School Choice to really a broader notion of educational choice. So esa opened a new chapter in educational choice and it comes with promises and pit falls. Last year, there was an edited volume, esas, or Education Savings Accounts, the new frontier in School Choice was announced. It covers the history, legal fou foundation, how parents use them. How to develop a supply side of providers. How to administer, regulate and ensure quality control. There are a number of these aspects that we will discuss here today. So growth in Education Savings Accounts and other School Choice mechanisms has been progressing in the states and in a number of years. But we are in something of a new era of School Choice. The unapologetic support for private School Choice. From the Current Administration is new. And its raising the possibilities of tail winds from that support and head winds for School Choice and push back to it. What future of education holds and role that esas play in it are open questions. Honestly, i cant think of a better person to tackle those questions than our speaker today, governor bush. Jeb bush doesnt need any introduction. He is the 43rd governor of florida. From 199 t9 to 2007. But maybe some introduction to his passion for education reform. During his two terms his top priority was to tackle floridas struggling Education System. Under his leadership, the state established a bold accountability system for Public Schools. Before it was cool. And created some of the most ambitious School Choice programs in the nation. A statement that could be defended at the time and could still be defended today. Florida remains National Leader in raising student achievement and even before becoming governor, bush was engaged in reform and in florida, involved with the First Charter School in florida way back in 1994. Today governor bush maintain is his passion for improving Public Education for all students across the country. Serving as chairman of the foundation for excellence in education and National Nonprofit education reform noirgization he formed, or founded rather, to transform education in america. Please join me in welcoming, governor jeb bush. [ applause ] thank you. Thank you all very much. When people say he needs no introduction, thats kind of a purr pri surprise these days. On the way up here, some person saw me, and i kind of have remote face id i guess. Having run for president and being on tv. Not as much as the official winner, but being on tv a little bit. You get known. This was was looking at me like, i know you. Like that. And finally, you used to be jeb bush, right . Always good to recognize that i need no introduction when in fact i probably do. It is a joy to be here at the American Enterprise institute. Arthur, are you trying to brand the product here . It is like, how many different times can you say aei on a screen . This is a beautiful place. And more importantly than its beauty, it is place where scholars think big thoughts and create practical ways to improve the human condition where people can live lives with purpose and meaning. Im a huge fan of what aei does. Try to steal every idea that comes out of this place and its a joy and honor to be here. So why is it important to talk about School Choice . Because for those people that dent like a good political fight, it just seems like thats what goes on when you talk about education reform in general and School Choice. I got tire marks on my forehead for advocating as many different choices as possible. Normal people dont like to get into fights just voluntarily. Here is what i believe to be true. The first thing that we have to recognize is that if you think the schools are working, and many parents do think their schools are working great, or if you think the schools are okay, or if you they aink they are mediocre or are failing, it really doesnt matter. The arguments we have from time to time in all 50 states and sometimes in washington, the quality of schools and who is to blame for the joum cooutcome is kind of irvel rant. I think what we can all agree on is learning has to get better. It has to change. It has it recognize the world were living in and the world we are moving towards is dramatically different than what schools started out to do. Maybe some of these new ideas actually should get a fair hearing. Thats what we try to do at the foundation that im chairman of, is to convince people of different way of thinking. The world is the most exciting time to be alive and perhaps the most dangerous times weve ever lived in. Let me give you sta tutistics t bear this out. From mckenzie, its got to be totally accurate, right . 45 of all the jobs that americans are paid to do could be automated with existing technology today. Thats 2 trillion of wages. And imagine what that looks like in a decade of time. Ive been fascinated by upss o orion project. Imagine the data you can require for a Global Business that has thousands of trucks operating everyday over thousand he and thousands of miles. And using inputs across the spectrum of their business, including the truck, where the trucks are going. What they concluded is when they become fully operational with the orion project, doing things like not allowing their trucks to take left turns for example, which counter intuitive to me living in miami. When i get a left turn, bam, im taking it as quick as i can. But the simple fact is they determined looking at big data using Big Data Analytics that would save them a lot of money. And if they fully implement this program they will save about 100 million miles per year. 10 million gallons of fuel. They will reduce co2 emissions by 100,000 metric tons. Reduce the number of trucks by a thousand. And save 300 million to 400 million to the bottom line. Phenomenal. Use of technology. Marching band celebrating it. What about the 1,000 Truck Drivers . Think of our entire economy using this information across the board that the combination of wireless technology, creating the internet of things, the use of artificial intelligence, Big Data Analytics. Converging into our lives all at once. Its possible that a child born in poverty, going to a mediocre or even Excellent School for that matter, will never get a job. The simple fact is, this is not just about poverty. There are a whole lot of people that wont have the skills because their Education System, the k12, starting at k12 and working up to Lifelong Learning isnt prepared for the world were moving towards. Thats why this is important. Education is the chance to be able to have the skills to be able to live a life of purpose and meaning. Plain and simple. Quality teachers in front of students. Using innovative technologies. The right way will give people a chance to be, not just the displaced truck driver, but perhaps the Software Provider that makes it possible for a whole lot of other people to be successful. You extrapolate the ups experience, not just in transportation, but think about it, manufacturing, retail across the board. Amazon sells for each one of its employees, sells 1,200,000 worth of goods. Brick and mortar sells 100,000 of goods per employee. Who is going to be winner there . We are not prepared to deal with exciting but dangerous time. So the question is which governance model first applies to the 21st century in the world we are moving towards my personal opinion is the 12 or 13,000 government monopolies, we call them School Districts, is not the best model the world we are moving towards. The new system should be parent driven, transparent, focused as many choices as possible where we customize the learning experience for this unique group of people that are emerging into our world. Florida is a majority minority state in terms of children. So is texas. So is california. So are most states that have growing populations. 58 of all children in florida are qualified for free and reduced lunch. Same in texas. Same in california. Same in most of the states that are growing. Do you think the system that we have created around these kids are working to the extent that they should . I dont believe so. And so the reason why our foundation, why personally have been involved in the School Choice movement for many years, in fact, its kind of like dog years, im 800 years old in this fight, is because i think thats the american way, to empower people with proper choices, to allow them to be able to love their children with heart and sole in t soul in the right way is the way to go. Have you all read into average . Great book by todd rose at Harvard School of education. And in the book very beginning, i recommend it if you havent read it, he begins with a story of military plane crashes in the late 1940s and early 1950s with the conversion to jet aircraft from what existed before. And they studied the reasons why there were so many crashes. And what they ruled out pilot error in training. And finally turned to the cockpit that was designed prior. And a young lieutenant named Gilbert Daniels looked at the body measurements of more than 4,000 pilots. Talk about a drury job. Actually measured the leg sizes and arms and necks of all these pilots to try to determine what would be the perfect cockpit so that there could be fewer crashes. And what he determined after he did all this work was that not a single pilot met that average. Some might have longer arms. Some had bigger torsos. Some had big hands. Some had small hands. But the simple fact out of those 4,000 pilots, not a single one met the average. We have organized our Education System in many aspects of our society around averages when in fact thats not the relevant thing that we should be looking at. Not one of them conformed to the average of all ten dimension measurements used to design the cockpit. And so the simple point is everybody is different. Its not just a question of race and ethnicity or income. We are all different, which makes us special and unique. And our Education System could be customized around that uniqueness. We can do that today whereas in the industrial era where everything was organized around averages it was impossible to do. So thats why we should focus on School Choice, particular Education Savings Accounts. Vouchers, Charter Schools, Virtual Schools are important for sure, but what makes esas where we should focusing on these across the country is that its customized to uniqueness of each child. Parents receive the money. It isnt to go 100 to monopoly dictates where it should go to. It could be for therapy or tutoring or after School Programs. For the uniqueness of that child. And i would argue empowered with the proper information, parents are the best School District that exists in this country. So what should we do about it . Well, this is not a place where washington is going to play an important role. It can be a role for advocacy for sure. But this is a battle fought out in 50 states. And little by little, courageous governors and legislatures are doing this work. Whether its in nevada, certainly in florida largers Scholarship Program close to 10,000 students where parents can customize the learning experience, it could grow by the way to 100,000 if we had the budget to be able to make that happen. In states that are focused on this for special needs kids and in the case of nevada and other places, across the board for students, things work out. My vision of how this should work is that with the right policies in place, most open system, you would have a halfday perhaps, a mom could pick half day of Traditional School or Charter School, take an ap cal cue last thats not available in that classroom setting online from the Florida Virtual School or one of the other Virtual Schools, take an online music class from julliard and Spanish School with retired school teacher. In that system my guess is our education outcomes would be much stronger, more sustainable to be able to deal with the world that we are moving towards. So the question is what are the issues at hand to implement this vision . And its complicated. There are a lot of thanings tha need to be worked on. What does accountability look like where parents can choose two schools at once or half a day in one school and another half in the other . Who is accountable for that child . How do we weave esa in other School Programs to create harmony . How do we deal with assuring that disadvantaged families get equal access to the benefits of this . All of these things have to be worked out, for sure. But i think its worth doing. I honestly do. If you consider the system we have today, which worked quite effectively for 100 years, the optimum system of governance for the next generation and for what we are moving towards, fine, then youll have what you have. But i think the growing number of families look over the horizon, see huge opportunities, but also see great dangers if their children dont gain the power of knowledge. And by advocating these programs, i think we can achieve that at a far faster rate, and we need to, because the world is moving at warped speed towards a very exciting time. Thank you. [ applause ] thank you, governor. I now have some questions for you. Yes. So to back up a little bit off of esaest. Youve been at this quite a while. Im older than dirt. Before most folks. And led the expansion of mccabe before this century started. So my question is, how is the landscape of School Choice changed over time since you were governor . Well, when we created the first statewide Voucher Program in 1999, it was the first statewide Voucher Program, like it hadnt been done before. And you would have thought before we implemented it that the world was going to come to an end. And one of the advantages of implementing policy is the world normally doesnt come to an end. Look, our system wasnt perfect, but the fact that we implemented it took away some of the argument that is the folks that were protecting the status quo at all costs would normally advocate. My attitude is success is never final. And reform is never complete. What you need to be doing is it creating perpetual you build a platform based on one policy change, and that allows you to take advantage of that and move on. So what we proved was that the world doesnt come to an end. 47 of all florida kids go to a school thats chosen by their parents. Whether thats universal public School Choice, which we now have in florida, a burgeoning Charter School, largest Virtual School in the country, largest Corporate Tax scholarship, 1,000 kids rksz largest voucher with kids for learning disability, all of these have been fought and people attack and push back, but once you implement, people move on to the next thing to gripe about. And my advocacy is to be big and bold and fill the void because someone else will if you dont. So just to harken back to the days in florida, you had had not one but two big shifts, two big moves forward. So you had a plus, which was a lot of what has come to be known as accountability systems, and you also had mccake and large choice programs. Which do you think when you were governor got you the most bang for your buck . So we also eliminated social promotion, and im not kidding way. So third graders below basic were held back. And we created a School Recognition program so the schools were graded as you said a through f. But largest teach he shall Bonus Program in the country was 100 per student that went directly to the school, still does, for schools that were a or showed improvement. There is not one thing. Its a sweep of reforms ta brings about improving student learning, which we got because we focused on Early Childhood literacy. It wasnt choice by itself. It wasnt accountability by itself. It wasnt being passionate about the fact that third grade kid by the end of that year if they are functionally illiterate is shameful. Society itself should be ashamed of that fact. And we created a climate where there was a lot of tension and a lot of it was a really dynamic time. Because not everybody agreed with the policies. But we tried to faithfully implement them. And we had success, thank yfull. The point is we were at the bottom in terms of student learning, and to put in effort the nation haste report card, in 97, we were 31, and ten years time we were 6 out of 50. So the best way to protect these programs is to have success in learning. And to have a constituency where parents say you cant take this away from me. So i want to move a little bit into the choice but stay on florida. Florida has a strong student sector. Yes. And i know a lot of folks who are, you know, they like School Choice, but they say charters are enough. Charters are what we need. In fact, chart remembers ters a strongest move forward so lets put all our bets on charters. Why arent charters enough . They arent, plain and simple. Look, we have more than a million slots in private schools in this country unfilled. Whats wrong with having people be given other options that are best for themselves . Maybe some parents want to have i am a catholic. Im always lobbying to make sure my grandchildren get a catholic education. So far id say its a draw right now. Why not . Why not have a variety of different options for parents both public and private. Ive never understood what the obsession about that is. There are great traditional Public Schools. And they should be held up high as great examples as well. If you move to Parent Centered model rather than protecting this sacred kind of thing of Public Schools, what other sector in our society do we go through this whole exhaustive conversation . We dont do it when we consume products, do we . I mean, did you ever go to the super market once in a while . I do the shopping in my family. I used to use this analogy of milk like being for School Choice, options of milk, last time i used that analogy was two years ago, its doubled the number of milk options, fake milk oral monday mill tk or 30 calorie milk. The whole world is alive is when you are given options and you are informed consumers. And thats what parents should be given informed information to make the best choice for themselves. And whether its private or public or something in between, to me it doesnt matter. So let me get on esas which is my favorite topics. You wrote a book on it. I did. You know what theyll say voucher by another name. Thats a criticism. Whats wrong with that . Im going to steer away from that. But my question is are they just vouchers by another name . Or are they something new and important and exactly what is it that is important about them . Well, the difference between a voucher is a voucher would give parent right to go to private school. So transferring typically from public to private. Esa could do that. Go a go to a private school. Or you could create a customized education experience for your child. Thats the difference. The difference is the parent is in charge of the money in the case of the corporate Scholarship Program where you have a direct organization. Its a meaningful difference if you can envision where we should be moving, which is many choices that arent just focused on one choice. You pick this school or you pick that school. Ultimately you could envision k12 education looking kind of like college where you divide it up in credits. We do that in college. Whats so sacred you fund right now k12 education with 180 days of buts in an asse seat, basica. This system would dramatically change that. And i think thats its power. So part of esas sort of logic is we can build sort of a marketplace for education. So how about the supply side . And maybe you can tell me about florida or other states that the foundation is working in. How does the supply side of private providers respond when we kick up a demand with a program like esa. Florida is it a good example of a place, indiana or louisiana is another good place because we have these robust programs. In the case of florida i dont believe there has been a Catholic School thats been closed. Whereas if you go to pennsylvania or other programs, new york, limited choice, they are converting Catholic Schools to Charter Schools, which seems odd to me. Its a better solution than closing the schools all together but not the best solution. The best solution is to have a vibrant catholic urban education for parents that truly want it. So we have seen an increase since lt Corporate Tax Scholarship Program has been put in place of about 800 private schools. Not all of that. We also get 1,000 people a day move into our state. We dont have a personal income tax. I dont know how you all do up here on that. So we have people moving to florida. So part of that natural growth of our population. But a lot of it is we have sustainable now longterm programs that support building supply. And i think what youll find is that will be the net result in states that are getting close to the kind of 40 to 50 market share of students whose parents can make choices rather than be dictated to where the kid goes to school. So a question, maybe some advice for other governors or legislatures that are considering esas. They are in 6 states now. There is one in committee and near the finish line in new hampshire. But these are the products hf the legislative process. And they get beat up and you have to make compromises, and sometimes have you to make compromises how much the parents can spend and who is eligible. So my question for you is if you were to give these folks a system that they are considering in esa, where can they not compromise if they are going to make an esa program that works . Thats a great question. Because sausage you are making is ugly and you have to make it. This cant be a think tank thing. You have to go out and grind it up. People somehow feel threatened by giving parents power to choose where their kids go to school. Ive never quite understood it. But maybe to the economic interests in the system the more people leave the less people they have to pay for their pensions or whatever. So first advice is assume no matter how small the program is or popular it might be, that you are going to get clubbed. And go to battle with kevlar on. Dont think youll reason with people who are dead set against it. I would say there are things that you can pass laws in the esas and other areas of School Choice that almost guarantee that it fail. And you dont want that. You would rather wait until you can build enough support to get a meaningful bill done. The number one issue id say is probably money. If you are doing an esa that is so small that its going to have a limited impact for parents, then thats probably not going to be effective. If you have in return for money and an esa you are imposing major regulation on top of private schools, bad idea. Look, in the choice arena, states have, massachusetts is more heavily regulated Charter School state than say arizona and both of them seem to work. But i think there is a point past which you make it impossible for these schools to be successful. I mean, their mission instead of having the traditional top down regulation from the department of education to the School Districts to the schools, which has been kind of the norm, and maybe some federal mandates thrown in for fun, you are replacing that with the ultimate regulator. And informed parent loving their child with heart and soul and making the right choice. And i advocate, and i do this all the time, a lighter touch. And trust parents to make these choices so long as they have the proper information. Which is which is really important. If you expect parents to understand all of their choices and what they are just because they can go online or something, you can forget it. That was my next question, thank you for leading me directly into it. There is this question whether complexity itself can be a subsidy. Right. If a program is so complex that only terribly sophisticated people can take advantage of it, then it advantages them and disadvantages folks who would have a hard time negotiating it. Esas are more complicated than other choice mechanisms because they can be unbundled. So my question is whats the states role in providing that information . And creating a system where there is a common sense way how to carry this through . I would be weary to say disadvantaged families arent capable capable of complex thoughts, just for the record. I think all parents need to be empowered with information. And this is a place where states, including my be loved state of florida, does a lousy job. If you go online and try to find out what the choices are available on the website of most states, what youll find is excel spread sheets with very Little Information that is relevant. So one of the things that our foundation is trying to do is to do actually competitions to try to get states to understand how important it is to create clear transparent information about how their kids are doing, how their schools are doing, and what the options of other schools, what they have. And in the esa its a little more complicated because its a multitude of services, but its possible to do. We do this in every aspect of our life all the time. So it shouldnt be i dont know, use the analogy of sending men and women into space. Thats complicated this is engineering feat. This should not be that complicated. And the reason why its complicated is people havent done it. Its not complicated until we should make it, as part of any of these laws, there should be a real effort to focus on transparency. Same with testing, by the way, drives me nuts. If you believe in accountability, which i do h really believe in it, i think if you measure, you are going to get a better result. Sort of one of those life lessons. But if you dont provide the information on where a student sits, what theyve learned, and you dont get it to the previous teach perch or to the teacher, and not giving back diagnostic school to the next teacher and parent, all those things would yield a far better result. But this is what bureaucrats do. They are insular and dont think about this as a normal person would providing real information in a timely fashion. Im answering your questions before you ask them, i think. One of the real challenges about all these issues, esas particularly which will be the next big fight, you pass a law, the governor signs it into law, there is a big ceremony, and children are around, and its a beautiful time. Thats just the beginning. Then have you to create the rules around how you implement that. Gerard knows this. And the people you are asking to imp implement it oppose it. Think about that. Thats the plight of School Reform in our country. By and large, the state boards of education, the people that have been working there for many years, dont like all these ideas. And the district superintendents dont like these ideas. And the unions dont like these ideas. And we are asking them to implement in a faithful way how this works, and that makes it hard. So you have to be fiercely vigilant and use the old Winston Churchill never give in. You have to fight with them. Neutralize those that are the opponents. Win over those that are neutral. You know, a lot of folks that are critical of School Choice and arguments for School Choice say well, you are sort of against traditional Public Schools. And indeed you support vouchers, charters, educational savings accounts, Online Schools. A number of options. And all of these would in evidently result in more people leaving traditional Public Schools. Yes. So given that backdrop, what do you think of as the future for neighborhood schools . I think majority of particularly elementary schools, thats a value that parents really appreciate. If you move to Parent Center system, having their child close to where they live, thats a value. Or having a child go to a school thats close to where they work, thats a value. The bureaucrats wouldnt think of it that way. But parent might have a unique kind of circumstance. So Traditional Schools will be the majority, where a majority of learning takes place in the next 20 years, i totally believe that. And ultimately we get beyond what we call this, and we focus on student learning. And then thats the ultimate goal. Wie are a while off on that. But when we implemented these, i can only tell you what happened in florida, because we were the first state to basically do all this kind of things all at once. We were at the bottom. Our schools were not perceived to be doing well because they werent. And we had huge learning gains in the traditional Public Schools. All schools get better when you empower parents to make choices and have robust accountability. And in the earlier grades when you focus on Early Childhood litter arcy with pages and commitment, everybody does better. Last question before we get kicked off by gerard here. The administration supports private School Choice in a way thats never happened before. Progress up until now has always happened on the states. Do you expect any action on the federal leaf that he wivel that make significant change in private School Choice programs . Or should we still look in the future for states to make the difference . States are where the action is in policy and local level is where the action is in terms of learning. Look, i think its great that secretary devos is a strong advocate of private School Choice and choices in general, not just private. I think its great that shes a lead tg advocate in the country for that. It inspires and em bol dense policy makers all across the country to know there is an ally. And there are certain discreet things the government might do but im not counting on tit. I mean last time i checked there is a gridlock situation here. I couldnt come up here much. But the action is going to be outside of here. I do appreciate i mean if i had a mag particular wand, i would ask that the federal government create certain criteria of how they want to hold the states accountable. But give the title 1 money to the states to be able to design programs to empower parents. There is also things they could do requiring changes in law, you know. So im not holding my breathe on that. They cob a good partner. What they shouldnt do is create well intended ideas that stifle the already implemented School Choice programs. I mean, there is a way that you could screw it up. You could put regulations on top of federal money that could be used with existing state resources and end up killing these programs. So do no harm would be the first step for washington. Jeb bush, thank you very much. Thanks. [ applause ] im going to invite the panelists up now. Well take just a couple of minutes to change the furniture up here. If everyone could please hold their seats until my former colleague Gerard Robinson convenes the panel. Thank you. Again, i would like to thank governor bush for his time. I would like to thank my colleague nat malkus for very spirited conversation. Im now going to invite the panelists to the stage and take any seat you like. Where are you sitting . Im sitting right here. Its good to see some friends in the audience. I havent seen in a while. Again my name is Gerard Robinson im the executive director of the center for advancing opportunity here in washington d. C. And im also an adjunct fellow here at aei so maintain my connections with the aei family. I have with us today four people who noah great deal about not only School Choice but about education in the united states. And all of them bring a very unique perspective to this conversation. So what im going to do is introduce each person briefly. They are seated in the order in which they will speak. You will find full bios inside of your packet but ill say a few words. My friend here lindsey who in fact she is director of Education Center education policy at the heritage foundation. Lynn r lindsey and i have known each other for a number of years going back to prebay owe days, shes one of the top scholars in the country School Choice. Not only prek, k12 but also higher he had. Also at the heritage foundation. And pretty committed to this work particularly esa and writing about this at the time when we were thinking about this on the forefront. And i have adam pat trish, one of the three editors of the book that nat had a chance to hold up earlier. Director of Education Choice at the foundation for education freedom. He spends a great deal of his time in states testifying before organizations on the importance of School Choice. Not only private but also public and does a great deal of work in that area. He has work in her so you should pick that up as well. Ive got Jonathan Beckham who s Vice President in the state of florida. Over 1001 students are receiving scope lar ships in 1,000 schools. In a former life when i was commissioner of florida, i had chance to see firsthand how the program is making tremendous difference in lives of people. So glad to have him here. I also want to mention he is ave a certified ethical hacker. The ethical part is interesting. Hacker is even more interesting. Last on the end we have Darrel Anderson who is founding president for parents for educational freedom in in North Carolina. He is one of the longest serving president s of nonprofit in the country focuseden educational freedom. In his role hes had opportunity to support special needs students. Also opportunity to support Scholarship Program for low income students in the state. Also has thumb in the Charter School world has well. And hes able to take policy practice but also make sure there is a parental component to this. So let me turn it over to Lindsey Burke and shes going to talk, as everyone else, for five to seven minutes, when everyone is finished swrewell have a dialogue. Great. Thanks gerard. Its a privilege and honor to be at aei today and talk indepth about esas and to follow really great remarks by governor bush. That was fantastic and i think spolt on particularly if we think about what the federal government can do to advance some of these options. I think that he really struck the right tone there. As much as we want to advance School Choice, this is quintessentially state and local issue. And we are seeing states do a great job. I think Interesting Research that is starting to develop in the esa space at the moment. How are families actually using them . Do they use just them like they would use a traditional . I think its awesome we can say Traditional School voucher . Or do they actually use them in a way thats distinct and unique. . And what we can tell so far they are using them in a pretty interesting and different matter. So a couple of data points. Governor bush mentioned the size of the guard fleur Scholarship Program which is florida esa option they have in place. So they have over 10,000, i think 10 s 500 kids using esa in that program. These are kids with special needs in the gardener ship Scholarship Program and they are getting about 10,000 roughly per year in that program. And so we were able to look at, thanks to data provided by stuff up for students, we were able to look at how families were using that account. So jason and i, he is formerly education for choice, hell have a big report coming out on february 6 on exactly how families are using them. And it has been fascinating to see in florida. So florida esa option has been around since 2014. So its a pretty new option. But parents right out of the gate started using those accounts to fully fully customize their childs educational experience. So looked at how parents were using their accounts over the past two years. And about 40 over that two year period are using their accounts to customize. So we in our data set we lump them together as customizers. So if you think about it you can use it as a voucher you are not a customizer. Or use a voucher as a voucher and all these additional options. So you could hire a private tutor, buy textbooks, whatever you need, you can even roll over unused funds year to year, roll it into College Savings account. So we said our parents actually doing that. And in florida about 40 of families are customizing with esas. To me thats just amazing in that sort amount of time from 2014 forward, that they have already figured out how to totally create an a la carte system for their kids. But then we wanted to know are they actually customizing or are they using it sort of like a voucher and maybe buying a textbook . So we delved into the numbers a little deeper and of those 40 that were customizing, half of them dont set foot in a brick and Mortar School at all. They are truly a la carte cus m customizers. Its completely a la carte, doityourself education that is perfectly tailored to the needs of their individual child. That was just amazing for us to see. That work followed similar work that we had done, my colleague jonathan butcher and i, in arizona. They established it in 2011 thanks to the good work of adam former colleague, they were first out of the gate. So we looked at families there, wanted to know how are they using the accounts, and saw similar, not quite as robust, but similar numbers, about a third of families in arizona are using their accounts to craft totally a la carte educational experience for their child. So pretty neat to see how families are tailoring every single dollar that is in their account. By the way, i would say the fact that we know this, that we know how families are using everypenny in their esa is transparency and accountability. And thats something that has been easy to figure out working with the administration and entities in states. But i would add particularly in florida, when nat was talking to governor bush a minute ago about how would you change things, there are perhaps pluses and minuses, something he mentioned was spot on. Even if you get esa option in a sta state, too often it ends up being folks administering the program that might have multiple allegiances, they might oversee the daytoday Public School system even if they are in favor of your Education Choice option, it may not be the first thing on their mind in the morning. So in florida what they did was very critical in Housing Management with nonprofit administering it there. So thats something other states have started to learn from. And ill just add before i hand it over to adam, while we i think largely agree that these Educational Options should be advanced at the state and local level, there are a few things that would be appropriate through federal policy to advance esas. I would be remiss if i didnt mention them. Because it really is an exciting time to think about it. I think probably the best opportunity that we have ever had to advance Education Choice for some of these populations. The first that i would mention and we are really excited about is military families. Children from military families across the country. We know that 35 of active duty families have thought about leaving military service all together, completely leaving service, because of the District School to which their kid would be assigned when they get assigned to the next duty e station. So this is not only education policy issue, it is National Security issue, recruitment and retention issue. So the federal government does provide for, not only the national defense, but the education of children from military families. So thinking about how we can modernize the existing dollars we spend to have that funding function quite frankly more tha like the gi bill functions and empower those military families with esas would be a huge and important step forward. Same thing for children attending bureau of Indian Affairs schools. These are the worst performing schools in the country. Then the third that i would add and really the final thats appropriate through federal policy is the district of columbia. Under the jurisdiction of congress. Kids in d. C. Should have access to universal esas. So there are things that the federal level that can and should happen. And i hope we see them happen moving forward. Thanks. Great. Thanks, lindsey. And thanks gerard and nat for putting this together. It was great working on that book last year. A if you ever want to wrimake a l of money, right on esoteric education, it comes pouring in. What is it, your Retirement Plan . Yeah, amazon. Com. And the beauty about writing about education policy that came out last year. And even since that oneyear period things have changed dramatic will i in esa policy. Last year bills filed in over 20 states. Passage of a new bill. Lawsuits. Petitions. Whole lot of the fun things you think about when you think about state Level Education policy. Esas are kind of a god embodiment of that. A question was asked earlier why are they different from vouchers . The truth is that esa are dramatically different in a number of ways. First way is of course you dont have to spend it at a private school so takes the debate about public versus private and charter. Empowers them to find the right choice for them. Decide to go and take private school and get Speech Therapy on the side or take english and math online, get the rest at home. Really a customized doityourself education. Thats one reason. The second reason is unlike traditional programs, esa are not use it or lose it which is what we have in the educational system. Vow he sha Voucher Program you can get 7,000 or whichever is less. 7,000. Because if they charge a penny less they wouldnt see the savings. Only person that would see any sort of savings is state department of education. So with esas when you have the difference between 6,000 tuition price or 7,000 tuition price, thats now 1,000 you are thinking about that can go towards tutoring or roll over therapies if you have child with disability. So real thinking about how to make education not just the best bang for your buck, but economize and do those sorts much things. Esa are at the heart funding reform. We are funding children and par tenths and let them go to the place best fit for them the par am steers the states set. Im optimistic for a few reasons. First is that i think customization piece allows them to do different things. There is this kind of idea, and if you started a business, you had an idea for a business, you probably wouldnt start that business with a 2 million facility, two dozen employees, before you had had a single customer come through the door. But thats how we structure education in america. And what this allows you to do, i can charge parents 100 per session or i can make it free, then ill say ill going to attract ten kids to do this, ill charge them 6,000, thats 60,000 that i can create education for those kids. Word of mouth spreads and they double enroll tom petty 20 kids. Now they have 120,000 and they can hire a teacher aid and you can test things out. A lot of people make small bets in education, if it works, great. If it doesnt no problem because you are changing in realtime. More ability to do quasi home schooling coops. Kind of blur the lined between private School Home School Online School to kind of create that bottom up innovation. We talked about in snovation. But we know it comes from 1,000 people making choices on the ground. Thats going to allow that that we dont see in other types of programs. Another thing that i wanted to mention that im optimistic about, and i think as a problem that needs to be solved, is that kind of creation of the market. So with an esa you have about so times as many options, 10,000 times as many options as you do with a brick and Mortar School option. What will we do to help the parents navigate . And say i have a child this age and want them to go Catholic School and soccer team. Where are the places we can go and have parents find those things that we can find really tailored to the actual needs of the child . And i think some of the work jonathan is doing is really getting at that. One other thing that i think the ability to have parents customize, creates the need for kind of an online one stop marketplace, which is something that jonathan and his team is creating. But along with that creates new way of accountability. And we talk a lot about accountability in education. I think esa can push to the next generation of accountability. So show of hand, how many of you have used yelp, urban spoon, or something to find a restaurant . Im in a new area, i would say 90 of the audience. Okay. How many of you have gone to City Health Department to find out if that restaurant passed Health Review before you went to the restaurant . View of hand. Very one shily saying yes. Actually City Health Departments are being very smart and saying you know what people are going to yelp to get information, ill partner to post all of the government information thats out there to put it at the source people looking for information and making that point of purchase decision. And the people who go to yelp, they are not not ha frayed of like food born illness, they realize if you are going to a place with 4 stars, there is a good chance you wont leave there with a bug. And also, interestingly, just came out this week, Columbia University announced they had a partnership with the new york City Health Department for the past few years and able to create an algorithm with very high specificity can scrape all the comment off of yelp and be able to identify phi where food born illnesses able to be detected. Tan harvard created a model can look at past city of Health Department reviews, look at yelp data and scrape for various words and be able to pinpoint within 80 whether or not a restaurant is likely to be in violation of Health Reviews. It tells you this is strong indicator of quality and stop not trusting parents to make decisions foor their kids. If you ask parents what they want most to guide their decision, first answer is we want to know what tort parents in the schools have to say. We want to know what teachers have to say. They want to have information in the school building. When so much of what we did is reporting out what schools do, we dont give the schools space to do that. So i think thats a new way of account abltd we can use with esa by attaching it kind of at the point of sale. When they are searching for schools they can have that information and he can see for themselves. And, lastly, ill touch on something that i think governor bush mentioned too and maybe lindsey did also s problem we need to solve until this movement is the kind of take it or leave it mentality we have where we go in there with a program well fund for kids, and they say well give you 50 cents on the dollar, and we say thank you so much. Thank you for giving us half. When in reality opposite should be true. Esa should be how we renew the way we Fund Education in america. Make it student based. If you are low income student or disability, create real student based funding that doesnt take these archaic weird funding systems that states have created. If you go into any state, three people know how they work hand roll the dice and hope it works. Creating funding and letting children go to school of their choice. Lets create a whole new system of creating education and model for schools. One other thing id say, esa are hard to do from cutting a check to a school and empowering a parent with 10,000 account they can go to a number of restricted uses, thats one of the Biggest Challenges with esa policy. And i think that what jonathan is doing is going to solve a lot of that. So jonathan. Thank you, adam. Like he mentioned my name is Jonathan Beckham and we are a nonprofit that is in of florida. We not just in florida but other states. And part of that we administer programs in the tax credit, fee based scholarships as well as esa like what we are talking about today. And the one we mentioned garr fleur Scholarship Fund in the state of florida has around 10,000 students on it. And that translates to around 100 million in reimbursements, and i say that that is how we administer the programment a. And think about that and we have a lot of challenges to keep a high quality program. From parents, it works like this, deposited into an account. At this point they can use the money to go and search for products and services on their own. Once they find those products and services, they are taking money out of pocket and purchasing them. At that point they are then going through and seeking reimbursement for those. And so if we think about that, there is a lot of opportunities we have. Number one, a couple of issues we talked about here already is finding High Quality Services and providers to help those families. Number two h putting money out of pocket from anybodys perspective can be difficult. But also from low income families as well. And then number three, just sort of the tedious process to go out and take receipts and take pictures and fill out forms to seek reimbursement. So we have a lot of opportunities there. On the administrative side we can think about 10,000 students and 100 million, what we are really talking about 100,000 reimbursements. So from a scale ability standpoint in order to maintain such a high quality and integrity of the program, we are going through and make sure we look at teevery single line ite. That they meet appropriate programs. That could be challenging for us this size. I work in technology, and really my role is about using technology to accelerate and augment our mission and helping support families make better educational decisions. And as part of that, what we are doing now is creating a platform that we are calling my scholar shop. And that platform is the Largest Online marketplace for esas. We partnered with two great companies, sap and a reba to do that. Let me tell you what that means sochlt from a familys perspective its really like an amazon shopping experience. I can log onto this private marketplace. I can see thousands of products and services that are preapprov preapproved for sapable uaccept. So its a real game changer from family perspective. When we talk about the opportunities all of a sudden i can find Great Services that i might be able to use for my students. I dont have to payout of pocket. I can use my esa funds directly to purchase those. And from an administrative standpoint, once i check this out, this handles it for them. Sends the order to the supplier, makes the payments for them without the need for the families to fill out detailed forms or save receipt frs that perspective. On the administrative side you can think of the scale ability issue that we talked about earlier that this flat formal lous us to scale at a much larger than we have in the past. We are no longer looking at every single receipt that is up loaded and ensuring that we get those. We are looking at preapproving and white listing products and services of high quality that could be useful for our families to find. Other thing we are really excited about from this platform is some other things that folks have touched on. How do you look at trace ability. How do you look at transparency and getting more information to families . We are incorporating verified ratings and reviews from our families into this platform. So that allows families to go through, and not just rate schools and instructional materials and technology, also Service Providers and therapists, putting that all in that point of sale right when they need it when making it purchases. So really excited about using that platform to help inform our families and let them make better informed decisions there. So in summary, looking to create the Largest Online marketplace for esa in the country and creating a platform that allows our families to make better informed decisions. Thank you. Great. Well, you heard the phrase last but not least. It dont apply here. Distinguished panelists its a pleasure to be with you here. Gerard robinson, i call him a leader among leaders. And a dear friend. And a mentor in a lot of ways here in every form. To have jeb bush, the ahis presence is still here. And ai showing, have a lot of respect for the author in the work from afar. But here recently day job as president of parents for education in North Carolina but im on the board of governors and work with great leaders on that board looking over the system. We have a marvel es president and former secretary of education, margaret spellings. And they were very smart out the gate because they hired a sharp young guy who was formerly with aei, andrew kelly, and he helped lead strategic initiatives. So here recently the last year working with him, aei has written. Again, im happy you all let this country boy come up here to be with you all today. Im darrell alison. And we are talking about parental School Choice. And i was thinking about our journey, we started, our organization in 2005. So gerard is right weve been around for a little while here, going on 13 years. And first five or six years of that work, was really in the communities. We didnt even think about going to rally. We didnt think about forming policy. We wanted to get on board with the families what the issues and problems with, et cetera. And i can say to you, because of that work, starting 2011, we really sky rocketed. It would be hardpressed to find another state able to do the kind of things weve done three separate private School Measure measures, and just a little bit of context here. 2011 in North Carolina. We had our first challenge here as Charter Schools. We had this arbitrary cap of 100. And for the first time in the history, since 1996, 2011, we hit the cap of 100 public Charter Schools. Meaning we could not have another public Charter Schools unless legislation was passed. And at the time we hit 100, hit the cap of 100, North Carolina has 100 counties in the state. So we had hit the cap of 100. There only existed in 37 counties of the 100. And of those 100 public Charter Schools in 37 counties, we had over 30,000 families on the waiting list for those 100 slots for the 100 public Charter Schools. So it was a real impetus. A real purpose for us to get the work. Thats kind of the theme. Kind of purpose driven. I get School Choice and options and things of that nature. But really understanding community, really taking what the smart folks here in d. C. , think tankers, im the do tanker, all right, and taking that and aligning it with customizing and connecting to community. So 2011, we not only lifted the cap, we say why in the world would we raise it for another 100, we see built up demand, so we were able to deeliminate the cap. And check this out, since 2011, since we did that, we seen more than 75 growth in Charter Schools. Now we were 37 we are in 61. Long way to go. Because 100 counties in North Carolina. We passed the opportunity Scholarship Program. You are all familiar with that. You are in d. C. , working class families. We were also constantly looking at data and werent coming up with data from the allies, straight from the public instruction. Went straight to that information. It is public. And we really wanted to make the case. So when you look at the income threshold, we all know, regardless wh regardless what statistics, they are low income kids, and thanks to florida, adopted an a through f grading system for our schools. Guess what, low income families, the ones mostly populated d f were low income families. So really made the case in 2013, we were able to pass the opportunity Scholarship Program, and this year we are expecting over expecting over 10,000 children to be utilizing that program. We didnt stop there. Not only did we limit the cap of public Charter School in 2011, but we passed in 2011 our very first private School Measure. As the children with disabilities act. North carolina, we have 1. 5 million children that are in traditional Public Schools but a quarter of a million of them were children with disabilities, significant disabilities. Who had no other options. And so, we thought and really connected with our autism of North Carolina, our real special needs organizations and organization, we really worked together, and we were able to pass our very first private School Measure, which is children with disabilities, and that was 8,000 for that program, and it has been very popular. But we still had some challenges. Ergo, last year, the passage of the special needs esa. And again, its a program, new program, that was it was a program with purpose. So what we found was with the children with disabilities in those families, 8,000 sounds like a lot, but we all get it. It really costs to find that education, particularly with children with more severe disabilities. The idea of them leaving the Public School system, taking 8,000 where you may have been getting 10,000 or 12,000 from the Public School system, still not meeting that need, it was conundrum. We passed the special needs esa, becoming the sixth state in the nation to pass such a program, but we made all three programs stackable. So yes, we passed the opportunity Scholarship Program. Thats 4,200. We passed the special needs disability grant, thats 8,000. And we passed the special needs esa, which is 9,000. So families right now, ladies and gentlemen, that this coming fall, theyre going to have up to 21,200 to be able to utilize to help their child with a more significant disability. Three points on esas, three critical areas as relates to North Carolina and i think it adds some context here as we think about this moving forward. Three areas that it addressed. Administrative ease for families. With the children with disability grant, one of the challenges we had was it was refundable. Reimbursement. So this idea that you have to pay now, wait later. Well, if you got the money to do that, thats fine, but boy, when youre squeezing a couple pennies, its really challenging. With the esa program we removed that barrier and allowed the debit option for those families. The second, alleviated Financial Hardship for families. As you all know, youre talking about families with children with disabilities in a lot of cases youre talking about a College Tuition kind of price point, so with the stackability, the idea of the stackability, we believe thats eliminated problems. And this is key. Eliminate the either or view of education. We understand that by and large, private School Measures, you kind of take the kid or the kid is leaving. I shouldnt say taking. The kid is leaving the Public School system, entering a private school. What we wanted to do with this program was really try change that event. So with the special needs esa, we said, listen, you may be a mom and father getting about 80 or 90 of what you need in the Public School system. What about that 10 to 20 . So for this program in North Carolina, parttime student, Public School, could also be a parttime student in private school and still be eligible for the program. Thats really important to me, personally, because i think this opens up the idea for customization. This opens up the idea where i said the university level, we see high schools working with Community College. You have High School Kids getting an associate degree before they walk across the line with their diploma. We see Community College working with university system, getting that kid with an Associates Degree to get to the fouryear degree. What im hoping is that now for the first time, in many cases, the children with disabilities, whether it be a therapy, whether it be tutoring, theyll be leaving that Public School system, going to that private school, and vice versa. What im hoping is that you see the kind of connectivity among schools that primarily have the fences and barriers and that stimulates that kind of interaction so that we can really open a door for customization. Again, my name is darrell allison. Its a pleasure to be with you. Back to you. Thank you. So, you see we have very four very smart people who see this area is important but walk different lanes. So first question is for lindsey and also for adam. So, both of you have access to lawmakers, both federal and state level. And you use research and other data to influence the conversation. For the audience, both present and viewing, tell us a few things you hear from lawmakers who say, yes, i love esas and heres why but i also want to know from those who say, i dont like esas, what are their reasons. Yeah, esas, you hear a lot of the traditional pushback traditional pushback that you get with a voucher option, tax credit scholarship, School Choice generally. So, the folks who are skeptical of it, the special Interest Groups in particular, you know, you always hear from them. Esas are no different in that regard. Youll hear things like, oh, its a super voucher and as the governor said earlier, like, maybe. Is that really a bad thing . So, we get the traditional pushback, but then you also get just concerns or not even concerns but questions about the mechanics of it. And everybody went through that really well, the unique nature of an esa but i think its just a matter theres going to be a bit of a learning curve, i think, over the next decade or so with how an esa functions. Its incumbent upon us to make the case that this isnt wholly different than so many aspects of our lives. A lot of folks have Health Savings accounts. Its a different way to think about how you finance your Health Insurance needs. And then adam mentioned, you know, youre going to yelp or open soon, all these options that are out there right now where we do expect customization, down to such a granular level, but being able to transition that into an ed space that has been monopoly dominated for 100, 150 years, its going to take a little bit of time so i think its a matter of walking folks through that, walking policymakers through the fact that families, parents are incredibly savvy consumers. Most every parent you meet, i mean, theyre all experts in the needs of their own kids. But they are so good. They will call private schools and ask, you know, what options do you have . What are your teachers like . Do you have extracurriculars . What are the afterSchool Programs like . Is my child going to be safe . What about grad rates . If you talk to principals of private schools in choicebased areas, theyll tell you they know immediately when its a parent calling who has access to a voucher or an esa because they will have a checklist of things that they are looking for in that school. So i think its just a matter, with policymakers in particular, of making the case to them that parents are incredibly savvy. That we are going to get far better information from these marketbased feedback mechanisms than we have ever gotten from this assignment by zip code monopoly system, and then just walking them through the mechanics. Yeah, i mean, for the people who dont like it, its the same reason they dont like tax credit scholarships or vouchers. I was on, yesterday or two days ago, someone had posted an article from twitter from 1999 about this new burgeon School Choice movement and it could have been written today. All the same arguments. One unique thing that i find is interesting that i talked about the economization of this and if you dont use that thousand dollars, your rule is over. We have a lot of states allow you to roll that over and if you have any money at the end of your high school experience, you can use it for college, which is a real conscious way of doing these things and i find it odd because in some states, people hate that more than anything because they think its not fair. That some people can save for college ask some others cant and my response is always, if you can find a way to do it in the public system, in the charter system, so be it. But its really that economization thing. Its kind of a new framework of thinking about education and honestly, its crazy but this is what wealthy people do every single day so the real crazy part is that we allow people who cant otherwise afford it be able to do it also so the arguments are all the same. But i think the people, why they like it, they like it for the customization piece. They like it because it takes the argument away from public versus private, which is how so many of these arguments go. In reality, all this is doing is funding a child and frankly, if they want to take it if they want to go to Public School there, private school there, educate online, they can do it there. Its Education Funding reform and i think people both like and dislike that aspect of it. Good place for both of you. So jonathan, when we started the Choice Movement going back to the 90s, part of the sale was that Public Schools can learn something from what were doing in the choice sector. You spoke pretty eloquently about the role of technology and what youre doing to step up for students. You know, what are some aha moments in the work youre doing right now with technology that frankly the traditional Public Schools can maybe borrow from as relates to customization ideas, parents, what do you think . Well, i think when we talk about esas in general, were talking about the unbundling of courses and the unbundling of services that we get. I think from the traditional Public Schools, were often thinking about kids going to a Traditional School all day and taking courses there. But as governor bush mentioned earlier, whats wrong with a student going to an expert in the morning to learn spanish and going somewhere else in the afternoon to learn how to play sports or some other activities for that. So, i think even aside from the technology piece, that transcends well over to what we see in Public Education. But from the technology piece of it, the great thing about this platform that weve been talking about is that were going to be able to have a lot of data and a lot of trends around whats happening with students with different areas. So, all the product and services theyre utilizing, their ratings and reviews around them, and even looking at outcomes that happen from those families so all of that data is not just data that we can think of as education reform data or private school data. This is data that i think we can share with everybody in the Public School sector that can help us all to look at better products and services that can help anybody in education. So i think thats really the trend that i see that i think will help not just people in the private school or Choice Movement but anybody thats looking for education. Good point. So darrell, guy in the do tank world, 2005, you have your organization. I mean, you really know the pulse of real people who have real challenges, and you bring up the issue of disability. Most people often overlook the fact that a lot of the tax credit and majority of the esa programs, in fact, are for people with students with special needs. What can we take from your work on how to really encourage parents to not only be involved but to also be the best advocate for this movement themselves . You know, its you know, its really not difficult. Its just work. Its the nonsexy work. It is as i shared with you, the first four to five years, we were getting to know the communities. Thats a big state. 9 million people. And i literally i promise you, i bought a clunker, a honda, but it was a clunker, and that fiveyear period, i drove close to 157,000 miles, so it died on me, went to honda heaven, but you know, its hard work. People know when youre doing it with them and when youre trying to do it for them. And in the second part of that is put a face with the case. We get it here. I mean, were geniuses, right . Its when you mix it with the heart, passion, coupled with purpose, and youre directed to the people, they get it. And its what was just shared here. We were very aware of public Charter Schools, very aware of vouchers, esas, if you will, but we were able to, because we understood community, and we were in the community, were not coming here just for to manipulate them in some way, what were able to do from 2011 to the present is take some of the things here, observe what floridas doing, et cetera, customize it to the people there in North Carolina, because they know you, because youve been there before, without asking them and telling them or throwing something by them. Its really organic. And hard work. But it pays off in the long run. So, you know, we all have a job to do and i just i just you know, i think opening up the door to allow for more of the mamas and papas to talk and you sit down and listen, take notes, and then build that rapport is pretty dynamic. We have 60,000plus families that we Network Across the state. We have a parent Liaison Initiative who oversees other parent liaisons. Some of you were at the excellence in ed conference and there was a parent panel there, and i believe, one of the dropdown, drop the mike speakers there was sholanda from North Carolina. Shes part of our plo network. Youre talking about a mom, single parent, mom, whos doing a wonderful job there in trying to help make sure her two boys get the education that they need and one happens to be, and one will be benefitting from the stackability of all three programs so she will have 21,200 for her child to be able to do because we connected with her, because we engaged her and were able to work with her, now shes empowering us because shes empowering other parents. She has a personal story and she can also walk them through what it takes to help that give them the tools to achieve the American Dream for their children. You make a really good point about the money and to take off something adam said. Its not taking money. In fact, these are funds people have invested into the system and getting access to it. So, what im going to do is play the heavy. We are close to the end, but i would at least like to give a couple of people an opportunity to ask a question. In the back, we have a mike here. We have a mike here. So heres what im going to do. Im going to choose one person on this side. Ive got someone in the back on this side. Ask your question to a particular person and he or she can answer after we get both questions in. Once we end, most of us will stay here. You can follow up. But i will start on this end. Its got to be quick. And theres one up here. Okay. And just state your name and organization. Yeah. Thank you. Im frederick king, im a fourth year at the university of georgia up here for an Intern Program for the semester. My question is for darrell, actually. The university of georgias in one of the poorest counties in the state of georgia, athens clark county. A bunch of parents are working two, three jobs for their to help their children get by and to, you know, possibly save up so their children can get a better life than they did. My question for you is, with all of these programs, with this 21,000 you were talking about, how do you work with giving the parents the time to get as involved as they as we would want them to be . So how would we how do you work with giving the parents the time as well as that money . Well hold off that. Thank you for that one. Well take a question here. I wish i could ask it to each panelist but i guess adam for no my question is this. We talk about the unbundling. We know the necessity of that in order for parents to have a true market. To what degree does your grand vision of esas rely on the on every Public School segmenting and unbundling their offerings so that parents have true access to the whole marketplace as opposed to all just these kind of Adjunct Services and the private market and to whatever degree there are microschools and whatnot. But im talking about can you see a pathway to traditional Public Schools actually turning their offerings in. And if we could do it with a 30second response. Start with darrell first. Real quick. As a result of what we just been able to do in 2011, charter, private school, the largest School District in the state is wade county. For the third consecutive year, theyve had more enrollment in nonTraditional Schools, home school, Charter School, private school, than Public School. So and again, with this opportunity thats why i said we fought very hard to open this window for parttime, parttime. Because they are challenged now. Theyre forced to some extent to have to maneuver. Its almost like negotiation. I hate to say it. But the pressure is real. And you kind of want that going in to see how you can partner as opposed to reaching in and forcing them. Let the families show them, and then they will follow. I would just say, you know, im of the belief that, you know, weve raised money for education so the child can be educated. We dont raise money for schools. I think it would be crazy if we had every, you know, Higher Education scholarship went to a particular school and you had to go to that school or you would lose it. So the way we organize education could definitely change. And i think the way that Public Schools respond to choice is something thats very interesting. In arizona, for instance, my former colleague, he found some data that because of open enrollment and Charter Schools and other things, that the county of maricopa, the largest county in arizona, about half of the students were going to a school other than the school of their zone to attend. And you have these hollywood of arizona scottsdale whos losing student enrollment so theyre not going out there and recruiting kids to come to their Public Schools. Thats a complete mind shift. We have to give them something they want. We have to say, come to us. Dont come to that private school. So i think its funding reform and i think its just a changing the way that Public Schools respond to these type of incentives. Can i just add one thing . One day, we will be at the point where choice is the default position for every single kid. Eventually we will get there. Where from day one, every single child, day one entering kindergarten, theyre funded with an esa. When we get to that point, traditional District Schools, every school, every provider, is going to have no choice but to unbundle and sell directly to parents. And we will get there. Jonathan. I was going to say in the state of florida, on our programs, we contract with Public Schools now for Different Services so a lot of the folks that are using esa accounts are working with Public Schools so its not just a private provider, public provider sort of thing there. Its actually that they are using it online marketplace. Not yet but they will be. With that, first of all, i want to say this has been a great, healthy conversation. And here are three takeaways from what i pick up today. Number one, this is really about Parental Choice and thats important. Number two, supporting Education Savings Accounts doesnt make you antiPublic Schools. It makes you proopportunity. And third, there are many different ways of ultimately getting to the end that you mentioned, which i think is a great way to close. Thank you for your time. And lets give round of applause to all of our panelists. Today Vice President mike pence addresses the group. Thats live on cspan2 at 7 15 p. M. Eastern. Tomorrow President Trump speaks to the congressional republicans. Thats at 12 45 p. M. Eastern. Also live on our companion network, cspan. Tonight on our companion network, cspan, senator Bernie Sanders and others calling on the Trump Administration to adopt touchgher policies on climate change. Thats scheduled to begin at 8 p. M. Eastern in washington. You can see it live on cspan. Thursday morning were live in montgomermontgomery, alabama next stop on the cspan bus 50 capitals tour