Transcripts For CSPAN3 Attacks On U.S. Diplomats In Cuba 20180113

Subcommittee. Civilian security democracy human rights and global womens issues will come to order. And the title of the hearing is tax on u. S. Diplomats in cuba. Response and over sight. We have one Government Panel testifying today with the following three witnesses who are here. And were grateful if r you joining us here today on behalf of the executive branch. The acting assistant secretary of state. For the bureau of western hems fear. Todd brown. The department of state. And the medical director of the bur reof medical services. For the department of state. Thank you all again for being here. There are two goals to the hearing today. The first, is to accompliestabl facts of what occurred. The second is conduct over sight over the conduct and the activities of the United States state department. Here are the facts as will be testified to today. By our panel. Late 2016, staff at the United States embassy in havana began complaining of strange noises and among the scription they complained of high pitch beam of sound. Baffling sensation. A kin to driving with windows open in the car. Or intense pressure in one ear. At the time of the report, the post leadership and the supporting office here in washington dc viewed this activity as harassment from forces hostile to the United States. Or to u. S. Presence in cuba. Later, those information gathered from additional individuals including some of these which suggest the events that led to these complaints actually began as early as november. Of 2016. The initial events that were reported o dured at diplomatic residences. Later these events occurred at hotels. Individuals first visited the medical unit at the embassy in december 20616. And january of 2017. From february through april of 2017 this was an evaluation conducted of 80 members of the community. 16 of these were identified with symptoms and medically verifiable clinical finding of some combination similar to patients that have had a mild traumatic brain injury or concussion. Unquote. And early july the bureau of medical services at the state department convened a panel of experts to review case history and the test results up to that point. They arrived at the consensus. Quote the pattern of injuries were most likely related to trama from a nonnatural source. End quote. Later in august, the Brain Injury Center at university of pa p reevaluated employees. That were reporting symptoms. Additional individuals and incidents prior to april 2014. Were added to the list. Of confirmed case kas. Subsequently two additional individuals reported exposure in midaugust. Of last year. And those cases were medically confirmed. Bringing the total number of cases to 24. All while the symptoms may vary all of the medically confirmed cases all 24 of them have described some combination of the following symptoms. Sharp ear pain. Headaches rk, ringing in one ear, vertigo, visual focusing issues, disorientation, nausea and extreme fatigue. As we said earlier time line of the reported incidents are as follows. Initial weave that report the in december may have begun november 2016. And occurred through late march of 2017. From march of 2017 through late april of 2017. There was a sper rattic period. They stopped. And then two additional reports happened in close proximity in august. Of last year. They were medically confirmed in september. These are the facts that will be testified to today. By our panel. I turn to the Ranking Member. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Im appreciate we are starting the new year with a much needed hearing on the brazen attacks on our diplomats in cuba. I ask my full statement be included in the record. Its unfortunate that since the news of these bizarre and vicious attacks broke last summer we have not seen more public out cry against the cuban government. For whatever scope of ownership it has over the attacks. Or more accountability for the health and well being of the diplomats. Some of whom continue to suffer lingering Health Conditions from the attacks. The castro regime proved time and time again its to the a Community Actor in the nations. It cannot be counted on. And most certainly the regime has no regard for individual human rights. Security, or dignity. The cuban government may or may not at the end of the day be directly responsible for attacking our diplomats. Someone who personally witnessed the cuban government it is that the castro regime and the Intelligence Services specifically were not aware of the attacks. If seen your cuban officials did not directly order the attacks they must have been aware or given task approval to foreign agents to operate in cuba. The scope of the attacks is too specific. So i hope to hear some more sound explanation from our witnesses today. Now our own diplomats have the burden of the truth. And that is that being in a foreign location in terms of your duty, runs risk. And in this particular case, no amount of placating or diplomatic overture will change that. The cuban government tried to under mine their dangerous and irresponsible behavior. By under mining the va willedty of the claims. Why would a regime that demonstrated the ability to intimidate, oppress and harm citizens give. They accuse the United States of fabricating the attacks. Of course the castro regime doesnt understand that in a democratic and free country citizens have a right to privacy. And to a government that would prioritize their privacy and health over using them as political tools. Turning to our witnesses you cannot be held accountable for the behavior of the cuban government. Or those who were responsible for this. But you are responsible both for the appropriate diplomatic response and the health and safety of our diplomats. And from what i can see the actions the department has taken are insufficient and unacceptable. Despite rhetoric from the president about rolling back ill conceived policy changes the reality is that the cuban government continues to enjoy many of the benefits it received. While the Administration May champion the new regulation prohibiti prohibiting transactions that it grandfathered in all contracts that began during the last administration. Further more because the administration took so long to announce the guidelines Major Companies finalized deals between the months. At the enforcement level ot remains under staffed. With no indication that personnel will be hired. At the state department the president hasnt everyone nominated an assistant secretary for the western hemisphere affairs. Failing to put critical senior staff in place at appropriate agencies under mines the United States ability to project our interest and protect our citizens abroad. The administration and the Department Reaction to the cuban government completely obligations under the convention to protect our diplomats is laughable. The fact that somehow the cuban government managed to pantd a narrative that there were no attacks at all is outrageous. Expelling a handful of diplomats removed from havana for safety is hardly a bold move. When new treasury guidelines were announced the administration stressed they were not in response to the attack on personnel. I appreciate the over view thats been provided but the truth is from the accounts we have heard the Department Response was simply bureaucratic. Inadequate and troubling. I will have a number of questions later. Let me start by saying the stories we heard are shocking. Failure of leadership by the department and the post. The sluggish reaction to the initial report of afflicted personnel. The aloof response of the medical team at the state department. Silence from Diplomatic Security to the rest of the department is staggering. The members of the u. S. Foreign service made a commitment to serve their country over seas. They agree to spend their hives often taking families with them in pursuit of promoting american interest. Some serve in combat zones. Large embassies and small. Sometimes communist islands. According to to accounts from those who suffer directly when diplomats first reported symptoms to the protopeople at post they were rebuffed. It is also post, they were rebuffed. On understanding the Department Took months to arrange the appropriate care. Only after reports surface in the media. Alarmingly, the department did not warn diplomats going to cuba for permanent or temporary assignments about the risk of their health and the health of their families. Department leadership failed to inform the rest of the department and including those who served and in place of those evacuated. This lack of leadership and responsibility is shocking and unacceptable. I sincerely hope this panel can provide us a much needed answers. The cuban government must be held accountable for its failure to uphold International Commitment and failure to protect diplomats. The Department Must be held accountable in appropriate policies and response and ensuring the safety and security and help of the men and women services. Thank you, we begin with our witness, welcome to the committee. Chairman members and Ranking Member menendez and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak, efforts and respond. At the out set, i want to thank you for your concerns for our diplomatic personnel in havana. This is secretary tillersons top priority. It is mine as well. I am pleased to be here today with my colleagues from the bureau Diplomatic Security and the bur eau of medical services who have worked closely on this complex issue. I would like to emphasize up front that the investigation into these Health Attacks is ongoing. We have the best experts of the government and private sector working to help us understand it. At every step, we have worked closely with our medical with our tactical experts in evaluating the conditions and the nature of the attacks. I will walk you through a general time line which will describe the diplomatics and reviewing many actions we have taken today. I will refer to my colleagues to address security and medical issues. In late 2016, some members of our Diplomatic Community serving u. S. Embassy in havana complained about strange noises and a variety of physical symptoms. As the department investigated, we began to see signs of these events and later at hotels may have begun as early as november of 2016. As soon as we identified the patterns and connecting these events with Certain Health symptoms, u. S. Officials approaching the cuban government in mid february demand it meeting its observations and protect our personnel. The cubans denied involvement, offered their cooperations and open their own investigation. Since then we have engaged the cubans more than 20 times from the working level to the highest level of the cuban government both here in washington and in havana. We prioritize of our personnel. The doctor will provide you with additional details. Secondly, we launch a government wide effort to fiend the cause and culprits behind these attacks. We have met with u. S. Agency partners more than a dozen times to discuss and well find whos in response of this attack. But, starting in late march, sporatic attacks continued into late april and seemed to stop. Beginning of mid april, we allow everyone serving at Embassy Havana who did not feel safe at post to return to the United States. We also expel two cuban diplomats in may in order to under score the cuban governments responsibility to protect our personnel. After a period without any attacks, there were two additional attacks reporting close proximity in late august which were medically confirmed in september. Based on the attacks, secretary tillerson ordered the departure of non Emergency Personnel from post on september 29th. The secretary assessed this was the only way to reduce the risk to our diplomats and their families. As a follow onto the order departure decision, we expelled 15 more cuban diplomats in october to ensure the equity and the impact on the perspective operation and under score to cuba. Its obligation to stop the attack. These decisions to draw down our personnel at Embassy Havana and to expel cuban diplomats did not signal a change to president trumps new policies. Prior to the decision, to institute departure, our department held 17 meetings with american staffs. We have held a number of meeting with them since returning to washington. Secretary tillerson met with evacuees to explain his decision to institute orders of departures and we have organized a number of meetings to address evacuee earn concerns. The well being of the 24 victims as well as the wellbeing of all of our evacuees and those remaining in havana continues to be in our priority as thus the investigation. With that, i will turn it to my colleagues to discuss their areas of expertise and i will be happy to answer your quicestion. Thank you mr. Palmeri. Mr. Brown. Good morning chairman rubio and other distinguish members of the committee. Thank you for your invitation to appear today to discuss Health Attacks involving u. S. Attacks of personnel and the family of wh havana. Welcome to any discussions that may lead to a better understanding of this issue and stronger safe guards to employees. From an security investigative standpoint, we continue to work to counter and mitigate and better understand who and what are causing injuries to our diplomatic staffs. Unfortunately, this remains a perplexing case. Our Regional Security officers at havana first became acare of potential Health Attacks in late december of 2016. In the early stages of trying to understand what maybe occurring post leadership and supporting offices in washington believed it was a form of harassment by forces hostile to the United States and our president in cuba. As more incidents were reported in early 2017, and greater awareness of the seriousness of symptoms became known, our level of concerns and mitigation efforts rose exponentially. After meeting cuban officials in february, outlining cubas responsibility to protect diplomats under the Vienna Convention, we received confirmations from the cuban counter part that the cuban government were conducting its own investigation in this matter. Emergency Action Committee met frequently as part of our ongoing attempt to better understand the nature of the apparent attack and protect staffs. As many victims have soeshlasso the attack with an acoustic event. The federal investigation opened the case in early may. The team have visited havana several times. However, the investigation remains ongoing and we would refer specific questions concerning the investigation to the fbi, thank you, i will be glad to answer any questions you may have. Thank you, doctor. Good morning. Good morning, chairman rubio and distinguish members of the kmi committee. I will be describing the medical response and what we know of the Health Effects. From the individual of the Public Health perspective, managing the evolving situation is challenging. Missing personnel describes a multitude of symptoms. Many are not used to attributed to a specific cause. As typically as any outbreak also can complicate an evaluation. However, the most challenging factor is the lack of certainty of the cause of agent and therefore, injuries of suffering. Individuals first visit our medic unit in havana in 2017 reporting various symptoms including headaches, ear pain and dizziness and pain problems. Descriptions were given and a high pitch beam sound and a bathing sensation and driving with the windows partially open in a car or intense pressure in one ear. Since the symptoms first reported, the university of miami highly experienced and evide evolving acoustic memory. Of the individuals evolaluated,6 were identified and in july, my office convened the panel of academic expert to review the cases and test results gather to dates. Some of the symptoms such as other things such as traumas and aging and stress, the con wilhelms consensus was related to a t trauma to a natural source. The brain center at the university of pennsylvania was identified to provide detailed evaluations of employees with prior exposures and evaluate Embassy Community members who reported new exposures. To further evaluations that come in late august, additional individuals with exposure to the prior of 24 added to the list of confirmed cases. Two other individuals reported exposures occurred in mid august, confirmed and bringing the total number of cases to 24. I now have to describe the Health Effects described so far. All medically confirmed cases of the following symptoms beginning of minutes and hours of their exposure. Sharp, localized ear pain, vertigo and visual focusing issues, distortion and nausea. Other Health Issues emerged more persiste persistent. This includes cognitive problems and working memory and attention, reoccurring headaches and High Frequency unilateral hearing loss, sleep disturbance and balance walking. These later symptoms varied widely. To find the prognosis confirmed cases are difficult. Some patients remain systematic months after their exposure. However, some after extended therapies, some overtime without treatments. Ten of the 24 have returned full of part time work or others seek treatments of anticipation return to duty. We are unable to state whether or not the injuries may result in adverse longterm consequences to the individuals future health or functional abilities. All government personnel travels to a official duty now is encouraged to under go a prescreening. The center of Disease Control performing and providing appropriately for the american public. I look forward to your questions. Thank you. Doctor rosnfarb. Lets start with you, is it fair to say that on may 1st, you saw confirming cases. We were aware that 16 u. S. Government employees suffered a serious injuries while working in havana at the u. S. Government. It is fair to say that we were aware that 16 people have suffered some type of injuries. Was was it serious . In some individuals, the symptoms were more serious than others. There were a spectrum of symptoms that we saw. Was there a single of the 16 or at least one u. S. Government employee working in havana suffered serious injuries, is it fair to say at least one . I would say many suffered serious injuries. Mr. Palmeri according to the law and any cases of serious injuries related to a u. S. Government mission abroad, the secretary of state shall convene an accountability and a review board. The law allows for it to happen within 60 days and allow for 60 days delay that the secretary determine additional period thats necessary for the convening o f the board. We know doctor rosenfarb have testified several series. A review board should have been set up. I got a letter on november 6th saying there is still not an accountability review board that the secretary decided to delay for 60 days in order to determine if one is even necessary. Has an accountability review board have been set up as of this date and why was it not set up as according to the law within the 120 days period . Thank you for that question. Secretary has made a decision to convene an accountability review board. There will be a congressional notification sent shortly. Why was it not done within 120 days of may 1st when we knew there were serious injuries . Throughout this process there is been a lot of information that we knew or at times was later contradicted. Throughout this process, we have not been able to identify who the perpetrators of such attack was and what the means on that attack was. It was only until late august there was another round of attack that became apparent to us that we should begin the process of looking at accountability review process. Thats not what the law reads. In any case related of United States mission abroad, it did not say you need to know who did it. Thats one of the reasons for accountability review board. The state department did not follow the law in setting anyone up within the 120 days period. I believe the opinion of others given the fact and when a serious injuries have occurred and their independence related to their service and Government Mission abroad. It was several people have been testified here. Now, we first heard of the complaints in late 2016. Thats correct, initially, we felt that it was a form of harassment and that was attributed to the kbogovernment. Mr. Palmeri, do you know when secreta secreta secreta secretary kerry was made aware . Yes, sir. When was secretary kerry was made aware . I do not know, i have to check the record. Do you know if president obama . As a regular matter, we would advise the Security Council at some point. What about secretary tillerson, when was he first made aware . I would believe that would be in late february, sir. Do you know the Trump Transition Team was made aware during the transition period . I did not have contact with them on this issue, i am not aware if anyone else did, sir. In december of 2014, president obama changed policy towards cuba, we had to expand personnel, did we not in havana. We added personal to expand the mission. I would have to go back and check the record, yes, that probably makes sense. We had to secure housing and we provided so we had secure housing for Additional Mission in havana. That would be normal practice, yes, sir. In cuba, we have to provide the list. Thats a matter of the course. We would submit the visa for the personnel. All of these residents would have been owned by the cuban government. Thats my understanding, too, sir. The hotel were owned by the cuban government. What security measure did we take on these expansions of residences . Senator, i want to talk about residential security, historically from a crime perspective, political violent perspective, there were not features sort of related to that. Our concerns and i believe the cuban government selected was aware of which housing our personnel would go into. Our housing profile is fairly compact and theyre not specific security measures in a high see Counter Intelligence environment. There would not have been any other physical security in relation to the residences that were in place other than the location and certainly based on a history cuba, we did not have beyond the harassment element, we did not have high Crime Statistics or any thing related to political violence. So there would not have been any residential measures thats taken above and beyond. My final question is for you mr. Brown, based on what we know, can you guarantee the safety of any personnel in havana currently stationed there or about to be deployed in havana. Do we know what they can do to protect themselves from these sorts of injuries and can we guarantee if we send someone there, they are safe from these injuries . Senator, i dont think we can say categorically that we can guarantee they would be safe from this. Certainly we do not know whats causing it or whos bind it ehir how it is being done. What we have done is address sort of being sure that our community in havana is well aware of what has happened to provide advise on how to respond to that and to have teams in place but then can respond and how to report those types of incidents so we have done a lot of work in terms of elevating the knowledge of the personnel. Lets cut to the chase, if i am deployed in havana today to work in the embassy and i ask you what can i do to protect myself from the source thats happening. You do not know what i can do to protect myself because we dont know what is used to attack them . Thats true. Our guidance would be in the event of something taken place. Doctor rosenfarb, do you have any advise on how you can protect themselves on this . We try to educate people and make sure they are aware of what we know about of symptoms occurred. As far as what we know right now, the only mitigation factor is to limit your exposure to foreign people or should they hear or feel a sensation to move away as quickly as possible. We know from our patients have been there that the less exposure is better. We do predeployment screening now to ascertain base leline an hearing cognitive function. Thank you. I have to go to the white house and i have a series of questions for the record. I was looking forward to a second round. I hope those questions will be answered first. First, listening to the last set of answers like the times in which we have children putting their head underneath their desk during an air raid drill for a nuclear attack, ridiculous, move away from the sound that you are hearing. It is Pretty Amazing to me. Let me ask the Democratic Office of this committee requested a briefing in december, today that briefing is not taking place, do you commit to classify a briefing for r this committee . Absolutely, sir. Do you commit in accepting and responding to classified questions. Yes, sir. Mr. Palmeri, would it not be fair to say that in cuba, either it is the regime who conducted these attacks or they have full knowledge of who conducted these attacks because the state security apparatus, one that has every element of security fully monitored to engage and it is difficult to believe if a third country attack, that the cuban bell je intelligence would not know, is that a fair statement . Either it is the cubans and something else. Under the possibility that it is someone else and i think the administration is recognized that one possible explanation for these attacks on u. S. Person as a third country, possibly in collaboration of the cuban governor or at least with its knowledge or if it was not his knowledge, they know who it is and they have not come forth as i understand, is that a fair statement . Have the cuban government assessed who this maybe if it is not them . No, not that i am aware of. So in the theory for a moment that it is the third country, in december of 2016 around the same time these attacks first started, the cuban and government sign a new defense and a series of new technology, i would like to introduce the press article. Has the state department raised attacks against u. S. Personnel cuba with the russian government, for example . Sir, thats a really good question. I think it is better to answer that in a classified setting. If i were to go through a list of the countries, you are going to give me the same answer. In general, yes, sir. Yes, you are going to give me the same answer. I will look forward to the classified moied moment. Now, let me ask you this, you have said that you will not return individuals if in fact individuals to post and if unless the cubans can guarantee that these attacks will not continue, does that indicate that you believe the government has at least some knowledge of control over these attacks . The president and the secretary have stated that they do believe the cuban government has responsibilities in this situation. Doctor rosenfarb, when was the first time reported of symptoms of attack . The first patient was seen by a Health Provider in mc havana in mid january. Mid january of . 2017. Do we know when they were first informed of these attacks . I believe they alerted these attacks at the very end of december of 2016. So we say that some of these attacks took place of may of 2016, right . Um, there was a cluster of attacks that occurred in march and mid april. I do not believe there was an attack, i have to go back to the time. So it is march to mid april of 2017. Excuse me sir, i meant 2017. 2017. Let me ask you this, what was the severity of the attacks . Was he advised that the effects of the attack could be permanent . He was informed of the attacks in late december, sir of 2016. At that point, i do not believe we knew, we had information about the severity or the depth of the attacks. When diplomatics reported symptoms at the medical team, why did it take so long to respond . Certainly to try to cliarify the time line from an investigative time point took place, it was december 30th, 2016, when it was first brought to the attention of the Regional Security officer and the front office of the embassy. At that time, it was not clear what was taken place nor were there related severe medical symptoms. They did not know and at that point, thats when they thought it maybe some form of harassment and the Regional Security officer did not know it in a report back in washington along with other reports that was in. That was when they first sort of have these notices of what was happening. There was this long gap of nothing knew happening. This case sort of amplified of help perplexing and knowledge gaps. They did see this early indicator that something odd had happened. I believe it was late, you know, this was considered a form of harassment early on and then it was until early february when new incidents were reported that it was sort of this moment of we got something bigger happening here. Why were diplomats were told not to share their concerns with family members. I am not aware it was done, sir. Would you review it . If you talk to these individuals they would tell you not to share their symptoms or concerns with family members. Let me ask you this, when did you learn that employees were suffering symptoms associated with brain injury . The first patient was february 6th of 2017, like i said, the next two months we evacuated 40 more people, we had specialists from miami go to havana and access more people. As we saw more patientpatients, became consistent, the patterns became consistent more of aversion of traumatic brain injury or concussion. It was accumulations of information found over the two months. Did the department continue to cover all of their medical care . I would refer that question. Okay, rosenfarb can answer it. We were committed to do everything we can and support our authorities. Did those existing authorities suggest that there is some limitations of treatments . We are, there is limitations of family members over the course, what happens is people injured in the course of duty would be covered by the Workers Compensation law and family members would not be. Well, i would ask you in response to my question to give the committee a full sense of what limitations there are. I dont think that when we send a diplomatic abroad whos attack by whomever. At the end of the day, their health and well being should be limited in terms of our response to them. I think you want to send a global message to all of our men and women abroad if they are attacked, theyll be taken care of just as we would to any of our veterans and i consider them in this respect, a veteran of diplomatic efforts thats equally important so i would like to see what limitations there are and work with other chairman to respond to that. I have plenty of questions but i will look forward to your writing in writing. Thank you, senator johnson. Mr. Chairman, i do agreed with mr. Brown there, this is a perplexing case. Does anybody know how many different locations this has been perpetrated at . I dont have the exact number of locations but it was several residences. It was no official facility and two hotels i believe. Okay. Are you aware of these types of symptoms of any other cuban nationals or people who were associated with the United States diplomatic core. Any reports of something similar to others. Subsequent to the issuance of our travel warning of october 1st of 2017, there is been 18 american citizens reports to the Department Bureau of counselor affairs. That information have been shared with the investigators. Of those, of all the reports, what percentage gradually is there an audible type of attack as opposed to starting to feel ill or dizzy or experienciing ge vertigo, is there always associated with some kind of high pitch sound or something . Senator, you are referring to the attacks against diplomats. We dont have information of the attacks. The diplomats, how often is that . Is that 100 of the time they hear something . The vast majority of the 24 cases reported hearing or feeling some auditory sensation. When you say feel auditory sensation, you are feeling a flood in your ears or decapitation you hear or with the window lowers in your car and that type of thing . Right, some feel like a vibration and some recording as a loud sound. Descriptions varied though. Have we set up any kind of monitory device in any of those residences . We have provided off the shelve recording devices that are geared to report High Frequency sounds and we have recorded some sounds and turned those over to investigators. Thats interesting. When you recorded those sounds did people exhibit those symptoms . Some of those were associated within individuals who later showed symptoms, but i defer the doctor to comment on that. Are you aware of any type of technology that would cause this . No, sir. Are you aware of some type of auditory type of weapon that could cause this type of damage . No, i am not, sir. Mr. Palmieri, do you know of any . No, i do not. Doctor rosenfarb, i take senator rubios description and whats required by law. It seems like you hopped on pretty quick and we had experts came in on february 2017 literally within a month and a month and a half where the Embassy Personnel were made aware of this. Sort of full scale, our medical standpoint, anything else and any regrets you have in terms of things you did not do. No regret sir. I think it is important to remember that when i said serious injuries, at the time the injuries were serious as any two injuries would be. One thing thats not clear and what if any of longterm consequences would be, some one can suffer series injuries but may improve completely. At that point, you know theyre difficult to go on and dont have any health consequences. Each step of the way, we identify aied and had informati gaps and sought to fill those gaps and got the best care and we made decisions the best that we had. You sought injuries from an illness. At what point do you believe an injuries is caught by some types of attacks or you are not certain with that . After we discussed in july with the panel reviewed other possibili possible explanations, each explanations seemed to have holes in it. The one that could best explain was that there is some non natural incidents had caused the injuries. That was in july 2017. My question is how many Embassy Personnel havs have requested relocation or is that the decision made by the state department to move people or the medical core . There were eight individuals who requested departure from havana before the secretarys decision that moved the post to an ordered departure status where we removed all but emergencies. Were those requests granted . Yes. Anyone who wanted to depart post was allowed to depart post. Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you all for testifying today. This committee has a classified issue in october. Mr. Palmieri suggested that there is only information you can share in classified briefing. Is there new information that come to light since that occurred in these instances. It would benefit the committee to do additional classified briefing, there is been developments since the october briefing. I know we try to keep the Committee Informed the best of our ability, it would be worthwhile, yes, senator. There is an ap headline which you have all seen that says the fbis sonic attack. The fbi reports which have not been released publicly. The report says the fbi tested the hypothesis that air pressure waves by an audible sound or alter sound can be used heard americans in cuba and found no evidence. Do you believe this report is accurate that was in the ap story . Press secretary, it is an fbi report and i would hesitate to comment on the fbi findings at this point. Mr. Chairman, did we ask the fbi if they would come and testify before the committee about this issue . We did not. The fbi generally will not testify because of jurisdiction issue of judiciary . Is there a way for us to get in a report of a briefing . There is, thats what the senator talking about. Have they been cooperative in the investigations . Senator, i am not aware that they have been uncooperative, i know that we have had our own Investigative Team that went down in may and they had no difficulties in at least entering the country and certainly working the case in terms of just the u. S. Mission and also unaware that the fbi have encountered any difficulty in terms of coming in and out of the country on investigative purposes. I do know the cuban government said they would also conduct a parallel investigation so to speak. I understand the embassy noted increase Cuban Security presence in our residential areas proportedly in response to this issue. I honestly dont know if that has any legitimate attempt on part of their cover but there is been noted that there is increase security in those residential areas. Mr. Palmieri, knowing what you know, do you believe there could have been deliberate attacks on our personnel without the government know about it . I find it difficult to believe that. Security state and cuban government in general has a tight lid on everything and anything that happens in that country. And, have they been more responsive because we ask them to remove theorir Embassy Personnel . Has that produce any change in their behavior . The cuban government since we expel their personnel in october engaged in a pattern of trying to discredit the theories related to these attackattacks. I do not think it is a helpful posture to take . Have they investigated in the attack themselves, mr. Brown . According to cuban authorities, they said they were opening a parallel investigation but beyond that, i am unaware of what they have done or what they have uncovered. Pr perhaps, thats a question post to the fbi investigators. The state department have not seen any results that they have done. Not that i am aware of, no. If i can clarify that last point. We did have a Law Enforcement dialogue in september where they did share with the department a document that they proported to be the results of their preliminary investigation in to this matter. And did it shed any light or provide any information that we did not already have . I have not seen the report senator, i am not aware of any new information surfaced due to a cuban investigation. My time is up but if i can just ask one more question mr. Chairman. Mr. Palmieri as someone who has watched cuba for some time, given the change in american policy during the Obama Administration to resume a diplomatic relationship with cuba and to begin to resume other commercial and other ties with the country, is there any reason to think it would be in cubas interest to make deliberate attacks against our Embassy Personnel at a time when there is an effort to resume ties with the country . I am low to speculate cuban government tensions. However, there is a long history and pattern of cuban harassments of u. S. Diplomat stations in havana. It is entirely possible that they could have escalated that pattern of harassment and caused these incidents. Whatever case, they are responsible for the safety and security of u. S. Diplomats stationed in havana under the valbue Vienna Convention and fay fathe failed to live up to that. Thank you very much mr. Chairman. I obviously care like you do and all of us here about our personnel over seas and if they get harmed a and making sure th get adequate medical personnel. Doctor, you seem to suggest that they get the care and some of the care that you were drawing lines that some may be workmans comp and others they were not serving in the line of duty. Of the 24 cases, which of those would you say are workmans comp, were they off duty or all of them or some of them on duty situations on the two hotel residen residence . All 24 is getting the best care available. You plan on keeping that care, the best care available like you are talking about . Yes. As individuals they have the options to seek any care they want and in terms of the workers comp issue, that determines how the care is paid for. Any u. S. Employee, we consider it is occupation exposure, therefore, we encouraging our personnel employees to make a claim of department of labor for Workers Compensation and showing one more any members who maybe affected because they are not the employee. Yes. Are you aware of any of these 24 individuals who are now paying for their medical care because the government no longer provide it. So no one is paying for their medical care right now directly. We have authorities to medically evacuate personnel and to be, we seek reimbursement from the primary medical insurance first, we commit to what we called secondary benefits. We have authority for that a year or longer. Primaries for employees and we have benefits for a period of time. So there is no out of pocket expenses that incurs by employees. Now, the ap story where the fbi concluded, this was not a sonic attack and rule that out. As you know the fbi took a number of trips to cuba and they interviewed down there and they were thorough in what they did. Them coming out of this report which you cannot comment on, can you tell us what your theories are and what happened. They rule that out. What are your theories o f what you think happen . There is been, this thing has been looked at from an investigative point. Even from the beginning and going back to late february when we sort of had that moment of a medical element associated with this, it was shared with the inner agency of what possibly could be happening in havana and though these events were associated with acoustic elements, they were looking at possibilities and i am not familiar with the fbi and i know this report was not put out publicly. What your they ruled that out. Did you ruled it out . I dont know if i would rule it out entirely. The acoustic element can be used as a mask pieces. On what bases that you are claiming it is acoustic. I am not claiming that. I know there is accuoustic elemt thats associated. I have not seen this report and i dont think it is released publicly. That does not mean that accuousc elements and other types of attacks are considered with this. What are those . There is virals and there is ultrasound and there is a range of things that the technical experts are looking at that could this be a possibility. When you say viral, you are talking about somebody intentionally planning a virus. That would not be rule out. That could be a possibility and other ultrasound you are saying. Yeah, i have seen this sort of the range of what possibly could be taken place beyond sort of the accuoustic elements and those are some of the things have been mentioned to look at. They dont know how it could be done in that fashion. So my time is up. I would like a second round. Go ahead. Okay. We are all alone. It is just us. We may be rejoined. Okay. Let me also say that you know i supported president obamas to reengage cuba and i believe president trumps decision to walk back some of those efforts is a major mistake that only harms the cuban people and isolate the United States in the region. Cuba is looking to grow ties for u. S. Businesses and mexico and florida and mississippi and many u. S. Citizens who want to travel there and in my trips to cuba taken of a number of trips t. The last one was with members and senator leahy and senator cochran, this was february 2017, it was after all of this unfolding down there. Senator cochran and senator leahy, we had a very good visit and visited with members of officials and stayed at hotels down there. As far as i can tell from any of the members that went along, nothing of this sort happened to us but i wonder why, you know, with cuba and there seems to be a huge interest on them wanting to open up and wanting to have the engagement with our Business Community and all of these things. What would be their motives when the cuban governor is looking to increase ties with the u. S. Mr. Brown and mr. Palmieri. With the u. S. Mr. Again, i cannot speculate on what motive the cubans would have. It is just, it has happened in havana and their country, a country which they generally exercise total Security Control ov over, it is incomprihensible to us, and for them taking step to prevent these kinds of attacks to ever happening again. They have said on a number of occasions on our trip down there, the foreign minister traveled here that they did not condone the attacks in any way, they were not apart of them and they had no knowledge of them. They have been very forth thrive in that respect. The safety of our diplomats is paramount and i found it interesting that many u. S. Diplomats disagreed with the departure orders as their Employer Association or the afsa, who Barbara Stevens said at the time, this is a quote from her, american diplomats need to remain on the field and in the game. We have a mission to do and it is an important mission. What happened with the United States, what the United States did was very different than what was done by the canadians. Canadians diplomatic reported, why has the u. S. Response been so different than from the canadian response . Secretary tillerson from his first day at the department has said that the safety wellbeing and health and security of u. S. Diplomats over seas are his top priorities. It is mine as well. This decision to go to order departure reflects his believes and his concerns and our concerns that, we had to take steps to protect our people and that the cuban government had to do more to assure us that these attacks would stop. Has any other country in the world have done what we have done and withdrawn all of our diplomats except a small Emergency Force . In havana . Not that ai am aware of. Are you aware that any canadian diplomats, since all of this have unfolded, did they have additional ailments or additional problems . Sir, they have withdrawn with some of their personnel. I think we can go to greater details on thclassified briefin on that element. Thank you, i look forward to that. What benefits have we achieved from these actions and how has this impacted americas businesses as well as it does in cuba . I am sorry, i missed the first part of that question. The Trump Administration reversed a variety of steps to improve ties made by the previous administration, referring to the Obama Administration trying to improve ties and opening up and engage and trying to help the cuban people and we have seen a big growth in the small Business Community there in cuba. I am wondering now if this administration have reversed all of that. What benefits have we achieved from these actions. Are you aware that the cuban people are doing better and how has this impacted american businesses as well askew b cuba. The memorandum in cuba lays out a policy. Thats designed to not just help the private sector in cuba but to ensure that the cuban government lives up to its International Commitment on human riepghts to allow us to appropriate and free us on behalf of the cuban people and ensure that we are enforcing the u. S. Law with respect to the embargo and statutory ban on tourism to cuba. The measures that we have taken are designed to ensure that any of engagement and assistance in cuba benefits the cuban people and not the regime. Thank you very much. I hope that it will occur here that you will continue to share with us how this progresses, i mean this is a perplexing situation and i think we need to continue our investigation here in congress and both in private security briefings and those kinds of situations but i think we should be careful not to jump to conclusions until we know what really happened. Thank you mr. Chairman, appreciate you calling this hearing thank you, any other members appear, i will try to wrap it up. I will take off right with senatooor youdaff. Thats why the important of this hearing is laying out the facts. I read this headline a couple of days ago and saw some other things out there about it. You read that and you can conclude nothing happened. I saw one point that the cuban government said that there could be crickets or some insect noise, well, i dont know, we dont have that problem in miami. You have them . A lot of effects after . All right, well, yeah. But, my point is that you can read that headline and concluded that Means Nothing happened. Thats the method by which the attack, there is not a definitive. We cannot sit here and say this is the machine or the thing they use to cause these injuries, okay . No one here has claimed that and we know that. What i think is not in dispute is that there are 24 americans who either work for the u. S. Government or were there as a dependent of a u. S. Government who during the time in havana would experience the symptoms or concussions. Thats an established fact that we talked about today. We may not know how they came to that point, we know it happened to 24 people while they were working in havana. Doctor rosenfarb, let me ask you is there given to the fact that this is a case of malaria and a bunch of people are making it up. The objective test that is were done were not ones that basically are easily faked. There are exact findings that our experts have determined and that being said, no causes have been fully ruled out. Doctors are looking at everything. The findings suggest that this is not an episode of sp we know the fact that 24 americans were in havana for a significant period of time, a period of time have come back with these symptoms. Thats a fact. When people out there reporting about sonic attack ruled out, perhaps the sonic part of it has been ruled out but the fact that people if thats everyone true, i am not just saying, thats what the headlines said. The fact that this happened, the people have been hurt, thats an established fact. The people have been work while working in havana on behalf of the u. S. Government. The second question is whats our role here in over sight . I know we start to play some word game here, our job is to conduct over sight over the department of state. Here is what we know. I know what the law says. In a case of any series injuries related to a u. S. Commission abroad, it does not say in case of any permanent injuries. It says in the case of serious injuries. Given all the attention being paid to concussions as an example because of football. That concussion is considered as serious injuries. I would say to anyone in the world if i told you i am going to cause you to have mild traumatic brain injuries, you would think thats serious whether it is permanent or not. Thats what the law says. We know these complaints come in by late 2016 that we wethat the were visits to the medical unit of late december 2016 and we know there were serious enough that by mid february, we accused the government about it. We know it was opinion of the leaderships of the post in havana and in washington that this was likely some form of harassment by forces hostile to the United States or president at cuba. That was the assessment made at that time. Late april, we have 16 people we can identify with symptoms and clarify symptoms similar to mild traumatic, brain injuries or concussio concussions. By september 29th, we ordered the departure of non Emergency Personnel. All of these things happen. We know that by october, certainly by november, 6th of this year, an arv is still not up and running. If you do the math on the calend calendar, these facts that i have laid out and extrapolated backward, i understand there is a change in administration, we should have an accountability review board in place or some notifications given to us why it is no longer necessary. Of course, since then the dil decisions have been made. Where are we, are we now in the active and when was the accountability board activated . The secretary took a decision to form a board on december 11th, i believe a congressional notification will arrive shortly and thats required before the board is actually constituted and etc. So on december 11th, okay, i can tell you thats more than 120 days from all these facts which i think leads to the argument that we should have had. We dont know how these attacks were conducted. Suffice to say, let me ask you this doctor rosenfarb and mr. Brown, this would never happen. If someone in the u. S. Government says we want to cause these symptoms in people, that technology does not exist. We are not aware of a technology that does this. We have never seen this technology in the world that does this to people. Thats my understanding, senator, i am going to the subject Matter Expert both in government and outside of government, we have not seen this. Doctor rosenfarb, have you seen cases of this outside of an actual blow of the head or something similar. I have not. Thats consistent of everything we have been told. The reason why i raise that because it is a pretty sophisticated thing. This was not something conducted by a flight by night operation. Whatever happens is a result of some Sophisticated Technology that is so sophisticated that we dont understand. So, it leads the then, you have a sophisticated attack of some sorts causes these injuries and we dont know who possessed that materials. It leads you down the road of motivation and i think it is fair to say and i think most members of this committee would argue and many of you would share this view that who ever did this did this because they wanted there to be friction in the United States and the cuban government, that would be the motivation behind this. Someone who wanted to cause friction between the u. S. And the cuban government in particularly, if you look at the timings of these attacks, november, 2016 and after the election, it makes you start to think who would do this . Someone who does not like our president or someone who wants this sort of friction between the u. S. Who would be motivated to create friction or who would not be favor of in increase president of yucuba. I dont think any credible person on the planet believes that some group of anticastro cubans conducted these attacks in an elaborate scheme in somehow disrupt the obamas opening. I dont want to spend any time on that unless anyone here think it is a valuable option, i assure you it is not. A second is a road element within the cuban government itself. It is interesting i was reading this report. It talks about the initial action, maybe this is inaccurate. In a rare face to face conversation, castro told jerry de delarentes that he was concerned. His government did not dispute that something troubling may have gone down on cubans. This is with the article report. This suggests to me that potentially castro is aware of rogue elements of his own government. Whether you want to call them hard liners or people that feel they would be in a stronger position if this opening have not occurred or u. S. Presence or people concerned of u. S. Presence. So i am not asking you for anything classified because i dont think such a thing would be classified but mr. Palmieri at any point in time have we seen any reports in diplomats in cuba that suggests raul castro or Anyone Around us that said to us, it was not us but it could have been someone within us who did this. Did this . Has raul castro ever said to any u. S. Diplomat, i didnt do it but its possible some of my guys did it without me knowing about it . I do that believe that communication has ever occurred. Is that your answer because you dont want to discuss something that is not in a proper setting or is that just you have never heard that . That is my recollection, that ive never heard that. But we can check the diplomatic record and see if there was any exchange like that. I do not believe so. Okay. And then the last one, this is a question. You say, if it wasnt a rogue element within the castro government, maybe it was a third country. Which third country would want to disrupt the u. S. Presence there. The logical conclusion is russia and vladimir putin. During the cold war, do we have any documented cases of similar attacks against individuals anywhere in the world . Im not aware, senator, of anything similar to this, no, sir. I believe in the latest 50s and 60s, there was some evidence microwave beams or radiation was directed against the u. S. Embassy in moscow. I think it stopped in 1975 and 1976. There were some microwave attacks against the u. S. Diplomatic presence in moscow between some point in the 1950s through the mid1970s . Sir, im not knowledgeable enough to say whether attacks or not, but i know they were investigating excess levels of microradiation people were subjected to in that time period. Senator, you were asked by senator menendez. Why would a communication to a Foreign Government unless it contained Sensitive Information be classified . Is it typical any sort of communication with an on for government because were aware for example we addressed this with the cuban government. Why would the fact or lack of existence of a communication to the russian government be something we cant discuss in public . Because of the nature of an interagency discussion to give the context, to give you the full reply would be required and i believe that would be more appropriate in the classified setting. Then, i think the last point i think is pretty clear here is its important for us not to ascribe to havana attributes of new york or washington, d. C. Cuba, by all accounts is by far the most heavily monitored and surveilled country in the western hemisphere. Does anyone disagree with that assessment . It is a police state. Does anyone disagree with the assessment the city of havana is the most monitored and surveilled city within the island of cuba . Let me ask you, u. S. Government personnel, you are an employee of the United States government and you are going to havana, what level of monitoring or surveillance should you expect when you are positioned there . What do we tell our people when they go, outside of the context . Do they have free reign to do anything they want or should we expect they are monitored and kept tabs on. Mr. Brown. I dont want to go into too much detail. Dont tell me the methods. Certainly, we prepare our personnel for levels of surveillance and levels of harassment and movements are certainly restricted and movements are anticipated that there will be a cuban element monitoring those movements. What other post in the world would you say is comparable to the level of surveillance, history of harassment that a u. S. Government employee would find in havana. What other place in the world has similar attributes. I feel were getting close to classified areas and dont want to compare. Im not asking you for the type, but its safe to say the ranking of level of counterintelligence is a classified area. Im not asking for the ranking, is it like in montreal or quebec . It is not. The reason why im asking this, because i think its safe to conclude if im a u. S. Government employee working in the embassy in havana, the cuban government knows where i live and is probably watching me every single day. The idea somehow someone could conduct an attack so sophisticated we dont even know what it is without the cuban government at least knowing about it to one u. S. Government employee not to mention 24 over a 12 month period is outside the realm of reasonable its ridiculous. I could understand if somebody was mugged on the street corner, but these are sophisticated attacks, so sophisticated we cant describe how it happened yet, to 24 u. S. Government employees and their dependents in the most heavily monitors city and western hemisphere and the world where u. S. Government personnel in particular are watched very carefully for all their movements and activities. The idea someone could put something some sort of action against them, 24 of them, and the cuban government not see it or know about it, its just not possible. It leads you to conclude the cuban government either did this or they know who did it and they cant say because who ever did it is either a third Party Country they cannot take on or elements within their own regime they do not want to reveal for purposes of not making it appear to be unstable internally. I think these are all good conclusions from this hearing that conclude by saying my admonition at the beginning, i think its really unfair for any suggestion that people working on behalf of the u. S. Government were not injured in havana. Imagine if you were one of those people out there working on our behalf now suffering from these injuries and reading in a newspaper somewhere that what happened to you didnt happen. Not only is it demoralizing, i think its incredibly unfair to them. We can say we dont know how it happened or we dont know for sure who did it. Two things we know for sure. People were hurt and the cuban government knows who did it. They just wont say for some reason. I think thats the biggest take away from this hearing other than i remain concerned about the state departments unwillingness to stand up to arb, the review board in a timely fashion in accordance with the law and i imagine that will be a topic of further discussion down the road. I think that will conclude my questioning. I dont see any other members. Do you have anything else . I want to thank all of you for being here. I know this is a unique and perplexing subject matter, something we havent really seen. Youre probably going to senator menendez already indicated and some other member, senator flake had to leave, this is a topic he cares about a lot but he had to be at the white house as well as senator menendez on an immigration meeting and they had to leave but both indicated they will have extensive questions for the record. We will keep the record open for 48 hours and ask their questions be answered in a timely fashion so we can close out this hearing and have that information. I also ask my questions that remain unanswered, when was secretary kerry notified . When was president obama notified . Whether the trump transition was briefed on this topic also be taken back for the record. I think these are important questions to have answers for. Seeing no other members here, nothing further, the meeting is adjourned