Honored to be hereby. I always enjoy hearing stories about world war ii and for the last 15, 16, 17 years or so ive been involved with projects that centered around world war ii. I was with the National World war ii memorial and the library of congress collecting stories from world war ii veterans. I have heard hundreds if not thousands of stories from world war ii veterans. But my ears always perk up when i hear stories about Tuskegee Airmen and the 442nd Regimental Combat Team. The american patriots who served in those units bring a much different perspective to service to country and bravery under fire. Its a very special morning that we have two members, one of each who served in one of those units. Chief Master Sergeant robert zumi is a veteran of world war ii who joined the 442nd Regimental Combat Team and also subsequently the 101st Airborne Division, well find out what thats about. Its unusual to have a japanese american the 101st Airborne Division in world war ii. And we also have on hand Lieutenant Colonel alexander jefferson, who was a tuskegee airman who flew 19 missions over italy and franz except for that last mission in which he crashed and was captured by the germans and was a p. O. W. So these are the stories well hear this morning so lets get started. Id like to start gentlemen, as i mentioned earlier can you hear me okay . Okay. Lets start with mr. Alexander. Could you give us a little bit about your background, where you grew up, where you came from and why you joined the Tuskegee Airmen. Im a College Graduate. And you had to be a College Graduate to go into the Army Air Corps in 1941. I remember the japanese bombed pearl harbor in december. I graduated six months later from college and the draft board was after me trying to bite me to send me to the army. If the draft board had caught me i would be a book private making 21 a month. But i stayed i allowed joined the Army Air Corps and as a cadet learning how to fly with the excitement, you made 57 a month and after nine months you became a Second Lieutenant with a little gold bar on your shoulder and a set of wings, you made 150 a month. Plus 57 for flying pay. Now which would you take . [ laughter ] why i became a tuskegee airman . Hell, its part of my life. I had a hell of a good time. Could you give us background behind the Tuskegee Airmen and why that unit was formed in. Segregation, before june of 41, a man man could not train with a white man and join an Army Air Corps and it took an act of congress to establish a flying field in alabama near tuskegee institute. They came in and built an entire airfield to train blacks to fly, to train. And it took an act of congress. Segregation, separate but socalled equal. And the Tuskegee Airmen started oh, by the way, everybody remember, this is president rooz vemt. There was a thing called cpt, civilian Pilot Training. Roosevelt started civilian Pilot Training because he felt there was a war coming on. Germany and england were fighting and the United States did not have an air force and he knew that we needed pilots. He couldnt say okay, open up the flying field and train pilots because congress and the American Public would have raised all kinds of hell so sneakingly he started the civilian Pilot Training which means in each college there were training young people to the to aviation and one of the schools was tuskegee institute. But the damn programs were prompted and supported by civilian organizations and the civilian Pilot Training unit at tuskegee was supported by the oh, hell, a damn fund, money in a fund, and she was on the board of the fund and she was there at tuskegee to learn how the money because being spent and he saw the men flying, consequently she took a ride with chief anderson in a piper cub and it was advertised that the blacks were starting to fly tuskegee. I came along ant halfway through the program. And there i was and i got shot down and all that kind of stuff. Well get to the that. Well get to that. Bob . Yes, sir. Could you talk a little bit about where you grew up and how you got into the United States army . Well, i was born in 1924 in coyote path, i dont know if anybody here is from california . Coyote pass is the freeway going over where the strawberries were. Anyway, my mom and dad had a farm there. I was born in los angeles in coyote pass and went to school with marilyn monroe. She was very homely. [ laughter ] she never graduated high school. Boy, oh, boy. She divorced her husband who was a highway patrolman and then she blossomed out in the 10th grade. [ laughter ] pearl harbor came along and i was interned in camp. I was a little guy so i didnt mind being in a camp and see a water cooler machine gun follow me down and i found out what a water cooler machine gun was when i got in the service but in the camp i didnt mind it, like i said, i didnt mind it at all. But three of us we the spotlights, we dug under the barbed wire fence, went up the river and we made a place where we could jump in during the summertime. In the camp, you had to line up to take a shower or bath. The women had to go one place, wed have to wait until the women finished then wed go in. It was odd. But eating the same way, you had to wait until 1643 was my barracks number. Ill never forget that. Anyway, it was run block by block and you eat block by block. You cant if you get sick you just better look out because they wouldnt have many doctors there. Anyway, in school i had a dr. Ehle from usa who was blind and he couldnt could hear the step of each of the boys and girls walking in there so i told the class i was a rogue guy anyway. So i said well, watch this, i took off my shoes and halfway down he says okay, bob izumi, where are you going . He did that, so help me god. Then helen ehle is from cedar rapids, iowa. She asked me if i wanted to get out of the camp and finish school in des moines, iowa, Drake University and i said sure so i went back there, finished school in june, 44. I joined the service and i joined with the 442nd, went to florida and there i went overseas with them. Could you talk a little bit about the 442nd and it had a similar reason to being set up adds the tuskegee . Well, the 442nd is the most decorated regiment in the United States army. Not one of us came out without a purple heart. My best buddy inouye got 18 shots in his leg all the way up to his chest but hes alive. He lived through this it. He got together. It was a we were like brothers and sisters. We were really close. You folks there, if you know somebody next to you or left of you fighting you better know what he or she does. In vietnam, had a buddy, hes still alive. But his radio man well, anyway, his radio man got shot and died in his arm and all he got was a purple heart. What good is a purple heart to a man when hes not a mother and father . What good is a purple heart . Im asking you now. What good is a purple heart with the folks . Sorry. Anyway. The gentleman that was hit, we took him to wisconsin and they i told mr. Dooley, Sergeant Dooley at that time, i said take my bronze star, put it on the grave, and he did that, and the mother and father of the son wrote to me and said thank you very much, it didnt mean it meant something to me but by golly, you guys, when you were fighting, you know each other you can be together, know what she or she is going to do, if you dont do that, you sure wont survive. Bob, 442nd was also a segregated unit as well, right . Yes, yes, we were all segregated. Just like the Tuskegee Airmen. Can you talk a little bit about how you and your fellow soldiers in the 442nd felt about joining the army and serving their country . I had to join the army because when segregated to join to show the u. S. Government that i was loyal. And i think the rest of the japanese americans did the same thing, i dont know for sure. Its a rough war regardless if youre navy or marines but ill tell you, you guys in the navy, thank you very much. Because if you have a challenge going, challenge going you get is the army, navy and air force. I have a challenge coin that says thank you for the navy, army and air force. We dont do that. But i thank you in the navy and marines, i was in the marines for 30 years and i learned what the marines are. Different from the air force and the army. Thank you, bob. Alex, do you want to talk about what i just mentioned, about why the Tuskegee Airmen joined and their feeling about serving their country . Well, number one, this is my country goddamn it. Number one, best country in the word. Got news for you, why . Where are you going to go . Now if you dont like the country, leave. Im serious. Everybody wants to raise all kind of hell. As a black man i know segregation went on for 350 years, this country got free labor. Think about it. What slavery means. Where you work a guy from morning to night. Free labor. If this country had not had slavery you would never have the civil war. I would never have jefferson, hamilton, washington raise all kinds of hell fighting among themselves to make sure you have this country. If you did not have slavery you would not have the civil war. You would have never had Martin Luther king and all the rest of them that made this country so great. It aint perfect, we still got a hell of a lot of crazy cooks in this country. Think about it. The main thing is that you are here learning the basics. We depend on young people to come in and take a part. Vote and become part of this country and help to make this country better. I aint leaving. I cant drive my cadillac through the jungle. [ laughter ] think about it. Italians are not going go back to italy. Germans are not going back to germany, think about it. Theyre getting ready to deport some young people who were born as children here and didnt go through the green thats all part of it. Why we joined the Army Air Corps and the army prevented from fighting segregation, evilness. Thats part of my life. Talk a little bit about flying. Had you flown before you joined the Tuskegee Airmen . Oh, no, learned how to fly as the Tuskegee Airmen. Tell me about your first solo flight. A ground loop. Thats where you go up on the side. Steerman. Our training was exactly the same as white training. Nine months. You go through primary with a steerman, basic, and advanced. Three months. Three months in each phase and it was exciting. Learned how to fly, learned how to ground loop, fire underneath the ambassador bridge in detroit. Oh, god. But in combat i flew long range Escort Missions where youre in the squadrons we had four squadrons, we accompanied the b17s, the b24s from italy to germany. Italy to austria. Italy to spain. We flew top cover above the bombers and as colonel davis often said, damn it, stay near the bombers. Dont go off to try to get victories, every american bomber that you protect, you protect ten lives because every b17 had four officers pilot, copilot, navigator, bombardier. And six enlisted men. Every time you save and protect a bomber, you save ten lives. This was our mission, to protect the bombers going from italy to germany. On the last mission, we had to strafe radar stations on the coast of Southern France before the invasion of Southern France in august of 1944. Hold that thought because im going to pick you up from that point in a minute. All right. Bob, you were in the 442nd to italy, is that correct . Jumped in italy but i didnt stay with them, from there i went to france. Talk about going with the 101st. How did that happen . I was an aircraft spotter and i volunteered for 101st air born which was in france at that time and they approved it, i was the only japanese american going into the air born. The only one . The only one. How were you received . There was no saying dont get mad now. None of the caucasians in there said hey, there comes a jap or something. There was nothing like that. It was my mentor was a guy named peewee haar tmartin, i d know if anybody heard of a guy named peewee martin . Well, hes 95 and he still jumps out of airplanes. And he became my mentor and if it wasnt for that gentleman, i wouldnt be living here today. He showed me how to survive in the cold. There was four feet of snow there. You were with gcompany 506th parachute infantry regiment . Yes, sir. Also had ecompany. We dont know much about gcompany, do we . In the movie band of brothers, dont believe half of what you see and read in there. Oh, my god, yeah. Just like Tuskegee Airmen. Dont believe everything. Well talk about that later. Captain winters claims that they were they went through all that first but if you go to baston, all the memoirs are all ecompany, captain winters. Dent tell about general pattons first outfit, dont tell about the 555. You know about the 555 . Triple nickel . Do you know triple nick . No. Who are they . [laughter]. No, the only triple nickel i know is that the black parachute unit. 555 was the transportation and they were all black. They took us into bastone and then the germans attacked and they fought right along with us. But we dont say nothing about the 555. It was odd. Through history you can see that any way, from baston i wont into haginaw, we liberated the last concentration camp and people would say there was no such thing as haginau or the other concentration camps. Like dachau . I saw dachau. Well talk about that later. We liberated haginau. Ill tell you a little story before he asks me another question. Then well stop. Captain ken was to my right, i was in the middle and edsa salinsky was to my right and there was a jewish gentleman with his mouth open and i told salinsky, go get something to cover it. And another gentleman came out of the camp, opened his mouth, took out his teeth and put it in his mouth and walked away. So help me god. Its in the book called no victory in valhalla. Thats it. Im going ask him the next question, how about that . Okay. So there you are flying over France Shooting at radar detachments, and what happened next . Well, we came in at 15,000 feet, all four of us, and clear day, clear Beautiful Day and peeled off and dropped tanks. I reached up, hit the damn switch and the damn tanks didnt come off. The other three guys left me, quite naturally, because they picked up speed. They were doing about 250, 300 and im back here shaking the stick trying to get these damn tanks by the way, 110 gallon tanks on underneath each wing. Finally got them off and they were approximately 200 or 300 feet in front of me. Rammed everything to the wall, pushed it through, had water injection to pick up speed and i knew i was going to catch hell when i got back because the crew chief has to put in new valves because i had water injection in the engine. Thats another story. I caught up with him, all four of us going at about 400 miles an hour firing at these damn radar stations. I saw danny, hes number four off to my right, i saw him get hit. Before we got to the stations, black smoke went out of him. I saw him out of the corner of my eye. I go right across i got hits on the target. We shot up to the buildings, the radar. I go right across the target at about tree top height. No more than 200 feet. Boom, the goddamn thing came up through the floor, out through the top of the canopy. We were wearing heavy gloves, on oxygen quite naturally. Well, i had to get out. We were doing about 400 miles an hour, 380, all i know, everything was red lined. Oil pressure, water, sofa forth. And ive got to get out. Fire coming from the floor so we pulled back on the stick and i think i went up i got up about 800 feet, i dont know, maybe a thousand, going up, he reached for the lever, pulled the red lever and the canopy goes off. Im up here and meanwhile as you go up with your left hand you rack in four trim tag from the little wheel which we your wings go down. Right here i turned the stick loose and quite naturally the forward trim the nose drops abruptly. And when the nose drops abruptly, bang, i hit the bar, your have straps here, straps here with a big buckle. When you hit the buckle, they come loose, your safety comes and im thrown out. As i go out, i go i see the tail go by and then theres the fire go by and normally i was told if you bail out you count one, two, three, then you pull the damn dring. Well, im sorry, the parachute came out, im sitting on the parachute so its behind me and you pull the dring which is a big cable and the parachute opens. Naturally, i came out, the tail goes by, the fire, i look out and see the damn trees, i said oh, hell, i pulled that real fast. [ laughter ] i remember looking at it and im saying goddamnit, too low. And all of a sudden bang, the parachute popped and im swinging. You swimg, i hit the trees. Thats how close. Im trying to get loose and all of a sudden i hear this voice. [ speaking german ] and i said, oh, hell, you got me. [ laughter ] the damn german had a gun that looked like it was that big around. That was the introduction to my nine months in germany as a p. O. P. O. W. The german soldier saw the little gold bar and by the way, i knew that he was excited looking at this brown skin and im excited because he i dont know whether he was going to shoot or not. But anyway, after we got on the ground he saw my gold bar and he saluted. Naturally all i could do was return the salute. This was my introduction to nine months in germany as a p. O. W. Thank you. Just a minute. So talk a little bit about you talked a little bit about liberating the camps. Where are you at the very end of the war. I was up at hitlers hideout. We went down to udendorf. And you stayed in germany for a while after the war was over . Well, yes, and then i got transferred into the 82nd air born, the 508 with colonel mendez and i helped make the helped them with the jump school. Jumped 318 times. That was near dachau . Lets talk about that. You were a p. O. W. For nine months. Where are you at the end of the war . At the end of the war the camp that i was in was pushed near munich. We were liberated by general pattons third army. I saw patton riding on a damn tank as he came through and knock down the barbed wire and we were liberated by him. We were there sitting for a day and somebody said, hey, jeff, theres a place down the road with a lot of dead people. What in the hell you talking about . He says, they got dead people down the road. So we hooked a jeep, lib raerat add jeep. [ laughter ] thats an old connotation. You could smell the place a mile before you got to it. Now everyone is sitting here, you have been to a saturday morning barbecue. An theodor of barbecue permeates your neighborhood. Well, this odor is Something Like that but ill never forget it. The ovens were still warm when we passed where they were burning bodies. There were piles, piles of dead bodies dachau. We went into a room and there were on a table as long as this table and covered with hair they gassed the people and then cut off their hair and used their hair for seat cushions. Somebody was there with a pair of pliers pulling out the amalgam and the gold. A table covered with dentures and somebody today when i tell this horrible thing, they say oh, jeff, things like that never happened. Goddamnit, it gripes the hell out of me. The atrocities that i saw. Dachau. I hate it. Thank you. We could go on because both of these gentlemen had careers after world war ii. Oh, yes, i fought dear little snotty nose brats, i was a teacher. I was going to talk about your air force service. Bob served in korea and vietnam. Weve got about three or four minutes left. I told them, perhaps well have time for a couple questions. Does anyone have a question theyd like to ask . You were talking about the liberating of concentration camps . Did you have any knowledge of that kind of genocide that was going on before you went into germany . Before you went into haginau . What was that experience for you realizing that was going on. First of all, remember, the United States at that time did not advertise it. No life magazine, youve got telephones today, your transportation and your knowledge is up. Nobody knew about it in the United States. I dont know why the press was that way. And it was a disgusting to me, overbearing. Well, i dont know about him, but what i dont understand about this gentleman not that im against him why did he take his vehicle to go see that . And all the dead bodies . I know what a dead body is. I know what it smells like. He didnt know what it smelled like until he got in there. But by golly i know how it smelled like. In vietnam was the same. Korea was the same way. And i dont want to never see it again. Thats all i can say. Thank you, bob. Any other questions . Wait for the microphone, pleas please. Alex parker from virginia tech. My question is for the colonel. When you were in your p. O. W. Camp, what did you do to keep yourself going, keen your buddies going and make sure you guys survived . In the camp itself let me open this up. Heres my book. In the camp itself we had time enough to read to we had classes, we had music and the p. O. W. Camp we were treated as officers, as human beings, and the only thing, we didnt have enough food. Germans didnt give us enough food. We starved. I went from 119 pounds down to 116 at that time. I was a skinny brat. But we had time to draw pictures ive got a book here. We drew pictures and i brought these home, reproduced them for this book. We had classes in music, classes in literature, classes in chemistry, classes we did everything. Life was normal. Maybe theres other questions but we dont have time for them today, but lets give a round of applause for these two heroes of world war ii. The House Rules Committee is meeting this evening to consider the rules for debate on the revised tax reform bill which is house is expected to vote on tomorrow. That meeting is currently in a break with members scheduled to return some time after 7 00 p. M. Eastern. When that happens, well have live coverage here on cspan 3. 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas cake Television Companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. American history tv continues now with holocaust survivor Emanuel Mandel who recalls his experiences as a young boy after the nazis occupied his hometown of budapest, hungary. He and his family were transported to the bergenbelsen concentration camp in northern germany, the same camp where dirist anne frank died. Is this thing on . Can you hear any is this working . I know that many of you some of you are from local areas here and some from all over the country. How many of you have you been to the Holocaust Museum here in washington . Good, i can go home. [ laughter ] the Holocaust Museum is a memorial and its also a Teaching Institution and i think its terribly important for people like me who are part of what we now call a diminishing