Bev w weve been doing a series. We recently hosted Abdullah Abdullah about two weeks ago. Before that we couldnt have done this without tony we thing thanks very much, tony, for everything. I think were going to have an interesting and constructive conversation today. When i think about people who are qualified for their jobs or the right people at the right time, i cant think of a better person than my friend greg. Fz who served both in pakistan and afghanistan has served some of the toughest places in the World United States of america. Greg ess a friend, a a patriot, a really qualified individual. Thank god he has raised his hand and agreed to do Public Service again. Come on up here. Give him a round of applause. Its very nice to see many of my old friends here in the audience. Particular lilymy friend from cairo who did, who has done a lot of the things that need to be done or might be done in afghanistan so great to see all of you and i look forward to meeting those of you who i have not met. Id like to say a few words about the south asia strategy then a few points. Three each. On how that aplies to usaids in afghanistan and ill mention pakistan because the two are related. Then talk about some of the specifics. I feel fortunate to be returning to us aid at a time when we have a strategy for what we have to do in the region. Is is south asia strategy. So i feel very fortunate ive got marching orders and within it, then, a component for afghanistan and pakistan. The afghanistan rule for us aid if you will is to help with three things. First to sustain the gains made in the social sector after the last 16 years. The second is to help build the bond between the government and the citizens and that through three things. The service delivery. Through Credible Elections and through significantly reduced corruption. The third of three is private sector led economic development. Focused on Market Centers and importantly, but not exclusively, on exports. Ill take more in detail on that in a minute. After i get a sip of water. This is a very president ial thing to do by the way. Now in pakistan. Where weve been engaged for a long time. We have three things that were try iing to help pakistan do. And fortunately, we are on the same page with the government of pakistan and the network of important stake holders in pakistan. Related to these things. The first is to help pakistan merge fatah with or to mainstream the federally administered tribal area, fattah, in any way they feel appropriate with the add jay sense provens and in doing that, to help make that area a place where the people who have lived there all along can live a normal live. And to help the one point, there were 1. 6 Million People displaced by conflict. Into the rest of pakistan. So to make it possible for them to reintegrate, so thats the first piece. The second piece is to help communities in pakistan particular ly the areas vulnerable to extremism to gain resilience against that. And particularly then parts of karashi, northern sin, southern punjab and as i mentioned, the fatah as it merges. Thats number twochlt its something thats very much working with Civil Society. To help them do that. Were building on something thats happening. And the third is helping pakistan attract private investment, create jobs particularly for the younger people because of the large youth bulge that pakistan has. Now under all of that is to make maximum effort to be accountable for the taxpayers funds that go into supporting our programs in pakistan and afghanistan. And also in the broader context, to make the relationship with india as constructive as possible. Within that, one of the things that afghanistan has done over the past year is to create a corridor between kabul, kandahar, and yind area and del delhi. This has been a real support to businesses, private afghan businesses that are exporting the processed product of the country side. The things for which afghanistan is wellknown. Particularly in markets in the region. So the fruit the fruit, fresh and dry. Marble, onyx, gem stone, cashmere, wool, those kinds of thing things. So this air corridor has been quite successful and as i understand from my last trip to kabul, theyre continemplating extending that to the uae, kazakhstan and perhaps turkey. As that happens, and as we collaborated with our business colleagues in egypt and orr places. The processing or the ability to invest in plant equipment to process the product of the country side depends on the Administration Environment thats con deuce toif that. No one knows it better than the Business People themselves. Electricity, easy, clear access to land and a transparent relationship between the business and the government so they can pay their taxes, get their permits and do all the things they need to do that kind of business. We think that is a real opportunity for afghanistan and were going to be doik everything we can to support it. Producing high value crops. Were going to be focusing in our private Sector Support strategy on the market areas. In the areas add jason enter to them where the workforce is available and where the government and some of the other parts of the country. So the idea being that given the right policy conditions, there are existing businesses and there will be more who can set up facilities on the country side and then reach out. Hes mine iing for onyx in he w monday and processing it near kabul. Others growing fruit and vegetables, fresh and dried, in kandahar. And selling it in india. Recently, we sponsored a trade event at the end of three days in september in india where we had all told between indian afghan bids men and women, government fish, media people. Civil society representatives. There were b about 1,700 people who participated in the event for three days. And another approximately 240 million in other agreements that have yet to come to fruition. Some will. That shows though there are existing business in afghanistan that know how to deal with the region and have product thats acceptable so our job is to make that grow and were going to be doing a nump things to support those businesses. Including as weve done with many of our program, that many of who went to the event in india are run and owned by women. So another piece of that were now looking at is what are the electricity, electric Power Requirements, the growth of the private sector. In afghanistan. So we have had support to the electric power sector and were still working on that. But if this is to succeed, that there would be significant private sectorled Economic Growth that would importantly relate to exports to the region and other places. What are the electric Power Requirements of that . So were trying to get a handle on that together with our afghan colleagues in the government and the private sector. By the end of january. And then to see what we can do to hone in on that and support it as we move forward. An important part of it and i was in talking to the leader o f the chamber of commerce there, they said that 70 of the jobs there depend on trade with afghanistan. Its also true when you talk to people in afghanistan who are in business that a lot of the opportunity relates to exporting and it would be nice if there were Free Movement of goods from across the board e. From pakistan and afghanistan, were going to be doing everything that we can to help get to yes on that. And yes in a Sustainable Way because yes for two week, is not really a good way to build your business. Another important piece is the extracktive sector. We work for several years with afghanistan to help develop that. And the efforts werent very successful. Now were open to doing that again and looking to support it ways to. Were not going to get ahead of the Afghan Government and the head of offense afghanistan. Can be a huge diversion. However, we have engaged the u. S. Geological service to take the huge amount of raw data developed years ago on the Mineral Resources of afghanistan and to put that into some form thats useful to potential investors in extracktive industries. That, we have contracted. This is going to happen. So that way, Mining Company can now if theyre interested in particular resources. What it is and where and what about it. The independent anticorruption agency, monitoring and evaluation committee, has done corruption vulnerability assessment, they started with ministry of health and went to ministry of education. Theyre next target is the ministry of mines and petroleum. And also supporting their quarterly follow up and the nations needs. For the development dwomt of the extracted industries. Mines and petroleum. So as the effort with the anticorruption push at the recent senior officials meeting in kabul, following up one year after brussels, as they push forward with that, theres a road map theyve developed to develop the extractive sectors. Were going to do what we can to support that. Including a new project that we have coming on to help the Government Industries to address corruption within them and to help Civil Society monitor the extent to which thats being done. So the final point that i would make and prove, forgif me for going a bit longer than i was allowed. The final point is that there is a u. S. Afghanistan compact, an afghan initiative, na includes over 200 Performance Measures related to the whole gamut of issues. That face the country. Including private Sector Development issues. And so thats an afghan initiative, the government has said and president ghani has emphasized, theyre Going Forward with with that. Were available and helping thome move on those things to the degree thats requested and that we have some capability to do it. We have, its not new now, but the new development partnership, which is taking key reform measu measure, Performance Measures and relating u. S. Financial support to them. So its a fouryear, 800 Million Program with 200 million a year with specific Performance Measures agreed between the u. S. Aid and afghanistan. Those are elements that can support the more private Sector Development initiative that we know is essential to achieving the goal, which is to move from talking about how to get more donor assistance to get private investment so afghanistan can can stand on its own, pay its bills and move ahead. So to help afghanistan be stable enough to manage extremism within its borders and help pakistan be secure enough to play a constructive role in the region. So i look forward to the discussion and to having the chance to say hello to my old friends and meet new ones. Thank you. Thank you very much. Hello, everybody. Welcome to csis. Im a senior fellow here and ill be moderating this excellent panel today. Im going to introduce briefly our distinguished panelists and then i have a dozen questions to ask you. First, the lady. Ceo of impressive consulting, the Womens Chamber of industry. And Anthony Wayne as former deputy ambassador in kabul and former director for development and Economic Affairs at the u. S. Embassy in kabul. Jeffrey is president of the Afghan Chamber of commerce and former us aid System Administrator and mr. Hussein ramini is an entrepreneur, a member of afghanistan crafts men and traders. So id like to divide the panel into the u. S. Perspective then jump swoot local voices. Well start with the feel good story. Id like to ask about the achievements of afghanistan and the private sector in particular since the last 16 years. Jeffrey and anthony, what do you think are the in your opinion, like the three main achievements that the private sector in afghanistan has accomplished . You first. So ill start with the private sector voice maybe on this. So you have to historically looking in context and im aware that cspan is here today so we have a larger audience than just our audience here watching. I think its really important that the American Public know that the successes that afghanistan has had with a lot of support from the United States and other donors, both multilateral and bilateral, has not just been in health and education and in womens empowerment. There is a lot of success going on in afghanistan. Unfortunately a lot cannot be talk ued about public because of the insecurity levels and the possibility that you could bring others into it who would like to take down that investment or take down that successful project. So im going to try to whip through just a few private sector successes in a broad categoricaical way that identif how far theyve come. Im going to start with ict, a sector thats close to my heart n. 2001, there was virtually no cellular or mobile telephoney in afghanistan let alone women having access. By 2016, over 18 million mobile subscribers now exist with the penetration rate for women between 86 and 92 . That is an incredible achievement. How the government got there, it was with a lot of support with the donor community. No arguing with that. The early investments that started as early as 2002 came from the department of defense, the state department, us aid, helping to implement over 2. 6 billion worth of infrastructure within the ict sector. Inside afghanistan and upon that infrastructural base was an additional 2 billion of began and other direct investment to help build up some of the i. T. Infrastructure inside afghanistan to bring it to where it was a few years ago. Were going to talk in a few minutes about what needs to be done now. This is one of the sectors where theyve fallen rapidly behind to keep ict a really big Success Story for themselves. Afghanistan is primarily an agregrian economy. Its ag driven as a percentage of the 201 gdp numbers. Thats a presty sizable percentage. Afghanistans agriculture is still the main drive for employment, for living. Wheat is the main component of that. Afghanistan is now the largest per capita wheat consumer in the world. Outstripping every developing country as well. Developed country as well. The main products in afghanistan agriculture include not just wheat and opium, unfortunately, it is a big part of afghanistan still. Fruits, nuts, wools, even mut n mutton, sheep skin and lamb skins are counted as key potential export items for them to other countries. A lot of exporting going on with pomegranates and other dates and fruits and nuts. Third area is Infrastructure Development. Theres been a major amount of Infrastructure Development done by the United States. By the adb, Asian Development bank, the world bank and others as well as the Afghan Government in a series of private Sector Investments that will hopely longer term, be privatized to be fully scaled as utilities and other operations in afghanistan. This includes the kadjaki dam. They recently announced a phase two and the contract was awarded to general electric. The cost of 1,000 project. Turk man 500 volt line thats been constructed and is almost finished. The cross line. 500 volt line is almost finished. The dabs project, hopefully soon available to a foreign investor. Theyve also spent a lot of time on a regionalization. Not just of their electricity their pour simply grid. Theyve done agreements successfully. Theyre coming into what is in the future we hope going to be a very diversified electrical system that will have major components owned by companies. Under their new production. A law that passed the government in the last year or so. Last issue is they have attempted and i think president ghani really deserves credit for this. Theyve attempted to regionalize a lot of the structure. That includes the chop a har field which gives afghanistan in an agreement with india and iran, a port they can ship product to to go out to the indian ocean and beyond. They started Freight Train connections with china. The salma dam was inaugural rated by india and afghanistan recently and the air corridor that greg talked about is a very Exciting Development because its long overdue and they need ways to get their products out and thats a way to do that. Ill hand it off. That was a great introduction of some of the highlights of where weve been. Im going to put it in ate l bit in context. It is true that per capita gdp has gone up about 64 . Since 202, so overall, the economy has grown, but it is also true that despite our recogniti recognition, its been hard to mend growth of the private sector. In afghanistan. As jeff mentioned, agricultural employs about 70 and then services are another 55 . So you have a Business Industrial sector around 25 and then the Asian Development bank in their last report said maybe the real business sector is 10 to 23 which theyd like to see grow very much. So theres a lot to do out here, even with the very ambitious and determines entrepreneurs that exist. Of course a lot of the initial growth as many of you know, came because of the International Funds flowing in to afghanistan. From the military, spending logistics and the good deal tied to the development and so, what you saw was the shock that that hit the economy. When all of those withdrew. 2013, 2014, 2012, 13, 14. And a real drop in gdp growth. Happily, that is now reversing. Its expected to be about 2. this year in growth and expected to be b over 3 next year. Theres a lot that has to be done. It comes as an important component in a number of areas that need to be works on as greg knows well, as youre supporting the private sector, you have to get better at collecting government revenue and you have to know how to do it in a way that doesnt harm the private sector, which is one of the areas thats being worked on right now. Between the government and private sector. How can you expand your revenue and at the same time, forment more private sector growth. Not overburden them with bureaucracy or just focus on the biggest evidence sources of tax income, but look for ways to expand that base. You have to get better in expanding your government funds. You have to provide service as mentioned in a way that people appreciate more. Thats to the general population as well as to the business sector and the private sector. This infrastructure is a very important part of making this possible. That has to be maintained. Because a lot of it has not been maintained sufficiently in the past semveral years, so youve got to work on that. Then all this you know, not just talk on the tough side there are a lot of Business Confidence in the past several years hasnt been high or Consumer Confidence and that has to do with the lack of security. The slow pace of reform, the continuation of corruption and the weak regulatory system and legal system thats there. Now there are, ik it is important to have more hope in this and i think the new u. S. Policy and the policy thats work wg a number of of its partner rs aimed at addressing this situation. There are a number of steps the government is taking to improve the dialogue to set up best practice and better practices. In dealing with tax problems and audit ts and very practical things that make it hard for businesses to work together. There are a number of things theyre going to have to keep working on in the immediate yme longterm, some of which jeff mentioned. I guess i would say theres a lot of work to do. But we all recognize the vital performance of getting this private sector engine moving and one of the most important facts thabt is 400,000 young people coming into the job market every year. And if you dont generate jobs, whats going to happen to them. We know young people without jobs are not good for societies. So the private sector is place you can generate most of those jobs. Thank you. What you think are the main sectors that have the highest potential for growth and why . Im going to start with mining and extractives. Its gotten a lot of focus from afghanistan and the United States government since President Trump came the office. So in afghanistan, there is a huge amount of illegal or illicit mining happening around the country. Some of the deals are struck for shipments out to dubai, out to the middle east. Lebanon. But a lot of it now is heading to china. And with special deals between chinese Extraction Companies and afghan governors who are players and militia leaders and in some cases, so the Afghan Government is now trying to get ahold of that and trying to bring the Mining Sector into the economy in a way thats structured and planned and hopefully compliant and ethical l so its a big lift to get there. So the areas that the u. S. G and Afghan Government are looking at now are of course marbled. Afghanistans wonderful marble export is occurring regionally. They are Cargo Network we talked about earlier going to help to do that. Coal, the world bank made the only exception for clean coal in the world for afghanistan this past year, which was a big deal if you know the bank and how they have been pushing solar and wind for the last few years. Afghanistan is extremely clean burning coal. Its located throughout the country. And if you know coal, it has the ability to bring portable generation capacity to villages into areas that never would have had u Energy Development there for years or decades. So coal represents i think a sizable extracktive resource. Lithium, the United States government has had a number of meetings internally and with the afghans about a possible joint venture between the United States and afghanistan to explore lithium. The u. S. Geological service is in the process of doing an ev evaluation with the Afghan Government and the u. S. Military to take the analysis they did from 2006 another level deeper th that assessments could be made on the best locations for that. Iron and Copper Investments are huge. Theyre already there and its a major copper mine thats having problems not getting going. That was done through a chinese investme investment. Theres growing demand in china and india for copper and iron. As well as gold and other precious gem stones as well. So thats extractive. Second sector i would sput ict. I opened with a discussion about ict as a success. But the you know the ict industry, you have to make constant investments in technology in order to improve the offerings for your consumerled community. Thats your subscriber base. They should have moved on 4g more than three years ago. It was delayed a number of times. They finally published and i give us aid and ambassador laurens a huge amount of credit for this. They published their new policy on their website and theyre promoting an open access, which means foreign direct investors can now come in and compete with partners for developing their 4g modernization asaspects. We are expecting the auction the next month or two on 4g. Its late, but theres going to be major jobs with that. And its a huge uplift to the economy. I believe because its low level skill jobs, medium level skill jobs and a new high level skill jobs in the main areas. Last sector ill talk about is energy and power. They have a new independent Power Production law that was passed about year and a half ago. I allows now independent power financing to be done by an outside companies coming in to afghanistan. In an Partnership Agreement with the afghan or regional governments. They can can structure their own agreements. Initially, the isg was financing those through solar. It would only get them about 3 of their energy need ifs they put solar everywhere. Theyre looking at trying to do ipp in coal and other areas. Natural gas, they have strong deposits there as well and of course, hydro. Its a hydro based company with small and large capabilities for longterm energy plays there as well and ill stop there. Thank you. Ambassador wayne, you mentioned regulatory ab sobstacles for pre sector. Id like to hear your views on what are the main challenges that the afghan private sector is facing today and what would be three main parts. Challenges and main reforms. I think ill let our true colleagues have seen and what afghanistan is trying to do is pursue goals that are sometimes running into each other here. Weve seen that over the past few years, the government need to increase its income. And the other 60 is provided by the international donors. Because we dont want to be funding you forever. We know youre there for a while. T not going to change. Revenue is trying to root out collection. It was bb being collected, but just not to the central government. Theyre trying to get more efficient and transparent in collecting that, but along the process, theyve strong armed a lot of people also and theyve focused on the most afb Biggest Companies to try to get that money out of them. This doesnt only happen in afghanistan. So now u they need to move to a phase where theyre find iing ws to expand that tax base and input but in a way that actually facilitates the creation of jobs and the maintenance of the creation of business, maintenance of business and they are trying to do that with working on the one stop shop thats been done for businesses to come in and work thats not there yet, but is aiming for next year, if i understand correctly. They are revising penalties that come from audits and things so people can appeal if they think theyre being unfairly charged. It was very difficult before. Theyre introducing electronic filing, all of which ared at making things easier and more transparent. Theyve created this new council focused on the private sector and as many of you know, theyve made private Sector Development one of their national prifty clusters for working on, which is an important recognition of the importance of this area. A lot of this, you need to keep the dialogue going and put them into practice which is not easy for many governments around the world so it will take i think a lot of hard work and the continued interest of many of us to get that done. Again looking through a private Sector Development lens. Capital, number one issue. The lack of access to capital afghanistan is atrocious. Its only 2 of afghan firms right now as of 2016 use any type of bank to finance their investments. Its just not feasible for them. Its improving too slowly. I think the government has to move more quickly on it. Theres little Debt Financing available. Almost all the investments occurring and there is millions of dollars of investment going in. Mostly through private afghan hands into the country. Thats happening in a pure equity based investment. Post kabul bank scandal, they went to an extreme and now, its hurting their ability to get access for capital. When those panks can get 15 , why do they need to lend them to someone else. They can just sit there and keep taking 15 all day long. Thats number one. Number two is the insecurity issue. The issue is a major issue in afghanistan from a political stabilization and stabd, but it hasnt necessarily impacting major infrastructure investments, they havent gone after them systemically. Theres a lot of investment thats not getting attacked and theres not a problem with those investments. I dont tlik talk about that publicly, but we have to talk about the that insecurity at least in the last few year, been focused on creating political expediency for the terrorists organizations and taliban specifically, but not necessarily hurting their ability to feed themselves grow products and so forth. Thirdly, theres poor structure of the enabling environment inside afghanistan for business. This is especially from our afghan member, our number one issue. There has been a change from the karzai mention to the ghani administration, that the private sector is kind of an ancillary accessory to a big institutional state structure that we need to be doing now and building state capacity and thus the private sector feels pushed to the side where theyre seen only as when theyre needed kind of thing. That needs to change. The image need to change. Afghanistan has to be open for business. Their government has to say we want foreign direct investors. We want afghans abroad, its extremely successful and a very proud segment of the global country around the world. They have a lot of money to bring back, but there needs to be a change in that. Secondly, theres a feeling of overregulation and kind of micro management of the private sector economy itself. Theyd like to see that improve. One imf and World Bank Report from i think september october said that theyre only spending right now 35 of their development budget. The government. On products that affect economic development. Wed like to see the number up about 75 . Not at 35 . How can you improve a private sector economy if the government is not executing and the big trust fundses up there. Lastly is overtaxation. Our members are really up in arms about this. 80 to 90 of afghan economy is informal. The reason that there is such a high informal economy is because of the high marginal tax rates that exist if the country. Its a disincentive for countries, many of which have moved to dubai, india, and other Regional Centers where taxes are lower. Their current rates about 48 . You can go to the World Bank Website to look at how thats calculate d with the fees, investment, taxes you pay an all your different Business Activities and when you compare that to the u. S. And iran, i should note that those two count countries are 44 . But their names are much, much lore and theyre competing with those neighbors. Cqatar at 11 . Uae at 16 . Kazakhst kazakhstan, 29. Pakistan is at 33 . Almost 15 low er tax rates in pakistan than in afghanistan. Ill just leave it there. Id like to hear the perspective from our afghanistan private sector here at the table. The same question. What do you think are the main challenges for the private sector and what do you think are the reforms needed so the private sector can can grow and we can start with him. Good afternoon. First of all, i want to give some backgroundackground regard situation in afghanistan. We did hanot have access to education easily. So many Good Development projects in afghanistan and we did have a good number and female to come to the workforce and market. Getting access to testing inside and outside the country. The main new competent for Business Development in the country so now, theres fortunately has good access to Technology Using the smart phones or la one of the barris was the language barrier at a language now it is, its good that and they can talk in different languages and access to International Markets easily. With access to finance because need to provide good number of bank to get access for finance. And theyre not able to get a good project or good opportunities easily with the government of afghanistan so we do need to do more hard work to reach those approaching. And transportation is also one of our that did not give access to transportation. To go from one place even inside. This is what we are looking to be solved in the taxation is also one of our, one of the biggest problems. Every business in afghanistan as you are aware. We have a very high range of taxes. Its one of the problem of taxation. We have to be more than our taxation, the fee for the person who will clear our taxation. So im thinking if you have, that everyone would be able to solve the problem electronically or by their own so that will be useful through a problem like that. We dont have any good common support for women. So fortunately, we do hope, we do start with woman Afghan Chamber of xhors for women. Afghan, chamber of xhors, the rule of thumb, always very somberly. We never get involved with a strategy of meetings, planning or other communities. Beside that, we have so many positive things that i have mentioned in the beginning. Thank you. We are happy that we are not alone here. We have some very faces in this from afghanistan. Has been b working for the decision for many years and hes very distinguished. They have dedicated their work for the private sector. There are so many challenges and g good news in afghanistan. As an entrepreneur who has been active since 2006, i start a Small Business in afghanistan, i grow like in less than ten years ten times. Ten times problem that life in afghanistan is ten times higher. Its okay. Its true. But theres no access to finance in afghanistan. But there is more access with a law, to provide and give loan to the premiers. No prift sector. They are going to into the market, the workplace. Are you interested to get why, there is no capacity in the private sector. What are these . Its true as we mentioned down in afghanistan, we have good access to ict, air corridor like media. Television has improve d very much. They are big businesses and they are doing virtual well. Doing even finance. They have their own finance ability. But watching afghanistan what you can support with the export and all aspects of the economy. If you go to afghanistan market, there are other entrepreneurs. In 2015. One. They have maximum 10 to 15. Job market. If International Organizations they make them at this 1 in a year. Its much more than we suppliers in the job market. Herbally neglected we have been here. They have been disconnected. Sometimes, they just kicked out by the government institutions. One challenge. And they are, thats why theyre not competitive. They cannot provide good salaries and they are just suffering, surviving. Another good challenge for this, we have to, to say why because theyre afraid of government. And they are nonformal or informal. They train. They have apprentices. They train them. The government do not organize their expertise. Their experience. And this lifetime in just in the margin. Not in the, they pay tax. Their average this in the mu u nis palty. The honest challenge with the government, oh, we that private sector and institutions are not very much doing well. They need to be a little bit build their capacity, their competency, to provide better service, market based on their element of their members. Yes, their members, in particular. 400,000 workforce coming into the afghanistan market, formally what is 200,000 living out in the county, coming to years, europe or any other county because they are disappointed in afghanistan and cannot work there. Most of them are well educated experienced and have business in afghanistan. And they just left their business. They sold it or just bankrupt it. And these are also from the government side, if you go to any government, if, for example, to the ministry of transportation, or finance, or any other ministry, you will see there is a private developmental department. But they have not private sector. And they are treating the private sector separately and as. As they are able. And they are making impediments and looking at it as an employ. If, for example, mentality is like that if you would go to the Government Office for some small thing that you want to process your work, so they look at you not as someone who serves you, someone who, for example, source of money or like, yeah, lets say a bribe or something. So these are very uncoordinated the public sector, for example, its okay, we have a lot of integration, all these companies, and now w 2, we have very good, member of everyone of them. But if ministry of commerce sign an mou with company in india, then they organize them. At that time something happens, then Ministry Says i dont know. I dont care. So very realistic in the market that they are very uncoordinated and lets say weak in regard to providing and delivering services to them. Also, what you just mentioned, the 16 only were men, they can make a bigger contribution. And also the traditional way of business in afghanistan makes them much more able. Like if you go to the next generation, hes a butcher or car carpenter, and they traditionally learned this, they are very much kept away. So how we can make this duty practical work knowledge and practice together together to enable them to include their competency and make them competitive, yeah. Another challenge is also being in the neighborhood of china and india, that they make very cheap products and they never allow them to grow in the market. And there are so many more but i have to stop there. Thank you. I want to touch up on the issue of jobs. You know, afghanistan has a very big youth population, i think approximately 64 are under the age of 24. What are the opportunities what are the current Job Opportunities that youth have, both young women and young men in afghanistan, and can you talk a little bit about the rural setting versus urban settings . And what are the main challenges they are facing as entrepreneurs, as workers . I actually mentioned before afghanistan is mostly agricultural county. And no doubt that the country has a lot of competitive advantage in different sectors and in different products that in country can compare with them even though they have a lot of goods. What i would like to say that in regard to the balanced development that covers rural and urban areas is value chain, a very coordinated network of Agricultural Production and value chain that can make, the first step, make up one time to boost the Economic Growth or boost the Economic Growth. Promoting value chain in afghanistan can lead to not only development of the agricultural sector, but also to the industrial as well. And also it leads to the final stage of the development and fostering Service Sector in the county. So the value chain should be a little bit forecast by donor or development of that and also for those policy makers and private Sector Institutions who want to fight for wellbeing or good performance of private sector. This in afghanistan are very good. And value chain through also, what value change would be considered . So that would be separate study. And although the government already have a lot of studies for each of them, that should be considered very much. And this value chain also can help, for example, products, educational products that come to the province, center of province, they can be shipped to Industrial Area and processed and can be exported or at least delivered to the local market. So in this regard we can cover both these areas. In addition to that, also mentioned they had a lot of opportunities that can create Job Opportunities. And formalizing the sector. Recognizing their efficiency. Recognizing their importance. The value of the sector that they do. Providing Vocational Training and vocational educational training to the people in the market those who spent 10, 50 years of their lymife as apprentice, but dont have academic knowledge. So this should not only forecast in the cities, big cities, but also to the remote areas as well. So in that regard their competency would increase, so more high chances that they can get a job and at least they can create a job or a job opportunity as entrepreneurs. Okay. We have good examples of them. Okay. Please, mozhgan wafiq. Thank you so much. Actually, from the beginning about 30 of men were involved with the Workforce Development in afghanistan market. But because of gender gaps it never counted as a formal job. So they were involved in agricultural and will create a good earning and count for the houses. But it never counted as a job. And unfortunately in the last few years we have 8,500 businesses which is registered with Afghanistan Government and they have created about 95,000 jobs all around afghanistan. So for part of jobs, its very tricky, especially for women, because since, first of all, we need an assistance for jobs for afghan people. Because the differences between sustainable job and nonsustainable job in afghanistan. Actually, we do have a Job Opportunities with the development projects. We do have Job Opportunities with some other companies that they are only coming to work for short term in afghanistan. But we do need sustainable skrobs jobs by developing factories, Mining Sector and agricultural and export is very important to create sustainable jobs for afghanistan. For part of the women gto find job, so i have personal experience, especially when we were implementing one of the use of the project called Afghanistan Governmental program. So in 2013, when we were implementing the project for the first time, so we have trained women in different sectors. Women in finals, marketing, hr. But finally when they come to the part to find them jobs, so we understand that most of them really want to work in back office. They never want to work as a marketing and salesperson. And we faced challenges from the beginning, because we didnt know that. The women loved to work in back office and place in physical marketing. So then we decided to have our checklist, everything, before we select them or before they started the classes. So, of course, women, because of cultural barriers in afghanistan, we dont need to build that. Women care mostly in management of administrative sectors that the government feel more comfort to work in back offices with the government in the private sector. So i really emphasize on more sustainable, its possible with building the factories or Mining Sector. Besides that we also can encourage government to get involved with formal businesses or to be interpreters in afghanistan and to create jobs for themselves as well as for other colleagues there. So thank you. Im going to ask the same question to all the panelists. How have the u. S. Businesses helped foster a more vibrant private sector in afghanistan . And what role can the u. S. Private sector play . I guess thats me first. This is a tough one. Wi there has not been significant u. S. Investment in afghanistan. There has been a lot of u. S. Corporate participation in afghanistans development, but they are through donor assisted mechanisms, programs, and government led kind of programming. As a result, its been very hard, both because of the insecurity issue, because of the la lack of sustained kind of compliant Government Development in the country on the private sector side that hasnt allowed an interest, really, from a lot of these companies to go into the country and invest. You know, i talk a great deal about the fact that the United States has now been in afghanistan since 2002. And we do not have a Bilateral Agreement with afghanistan but every nation around afghanistan. And in some places they have been in place for more than a decade. And why is it that the United States has put so much blood and treasure into the nation, and yet wont have these foundational tools for private Sector Investment in place for their companies to be able to go in and make Strategic Investments . Lawyers for big u. S. Multinationals have told me that they wont allow their companies to send people into the country to do prospecting and Marketing Missions because they dont have any protection under the u. S. Bilateral agreements with afghanistan. So without those agreements in place, its very hard to get interest on the investment side. But it hasnt meant that we havent tried. We will continue to try. And our hope is that theyll be some type of at least a bilateral Investment Agreement in place within the next year or so. These are not difficult documents. They are about six to eight pages. If you look at the documents, on the u. S. Tr website for all the countries around afghanistan, even pakistan has a robust bilateral Investment Agreement. As a result if you go to ka reach ee all the u. S. Investors are there and spend money. If you went to deli for the last month, they are all over india. So we need to give afghanistan the ability to tragic the same companies in the region working and investing and producing products. Not just for export to the u. S. Or to developed country markets, they are investing for the growth of those countries and economy and really need to focus on that. On the ict side weve had some major u. S. Investors in to look with it because they principally partner with afghan, and i think that could be an area that could move forward without having that Investment Agreement in place. And my hope is weve had major u. S. Construction firms in working with afghan construction firms, trying to elevate their capacity and their levels of competitiveness and compliance and good programming for management. And our hope is those relationships will continue. Beyond the Development Cycle here in the immediate future, but into really private sector led programming too. Because there is a lot of potential i think tied up in those original partnerships that help on the development side. Well, just to say in addition to what jeff said is correct. The big issue is security. And a lot of people are not willing to take the risk to in stress a lot of money until the security situation is improved. The u. S. Government has been willing to invest its 120 billion or so. But the private sector makes independent choices. And they are not going to do that unless there is a good Legal Framework and really feel there is a good secure situation as well. And so thats part of the problem that we have. Where we do have influence right now, though, is through not just the bilate rawl but Multi Lateral donor efforts. And what has been talked about and what i hope theyll be increased focus on is a couple things that came up here, both is better budget execution, get that money out there in the afghan economy, and, two, selecting projects like, as hussein just head, promoting the value chain in the agricultural area. Because a lot of times the environment helps the private sector develop the value chains. And thats what we can do. So i hope theyll be increased focus among the donors on saying, okay, Afghan Government what do you do focus on employment and consumption that comes from employing people. Because you will not only get the value out of the direct value chain itself, but then the workers who work in it will be spending money with the micro enterprises and you are going to have a multiplying effect. And i think we need that very much to help afghanistan grow in addition to the large projects of infrastructure. And i think the project great is talking about Foreign Trade is going to be very important in that sense too. But id like to see moriartying into the agricultural areas in general. Because thats where most of the people still are. And it will be good if we can get them some jobs and income. Yes. I was reading comic books, so many, many goods it was said private sector has a lot more efficiency in doing projects. Lets think from that perspective, u. S. Forces there, u. S. Spending millions, hundreds of millions of dollars every year in afghanistan. And for example lets say one small project, one of the projects has a budget of four or five years has 120 million. If, lets think this way, this 120 million gives subsidy to your private sector from the United States who invest in 12 province in 12 province in afghanistan. That, if you want to create jobs, if you want to really develop afghanistans economy and help afghanistan, just as an example, and higher people from that area and region, buy what they have from every year harvest from their land or whatever. And then you have the technology. You have the knowledge. You have experience and everything. So just look thereafter ten years what will be the result. I think that the companies will not come. Lets do like, for example, if we have a good brand of garments you buy here, it says this brand but made in india or bangladesh, so lets make something made in afghanistan. Granted, its like u. S. Brand but lets make it in afghanistan. We have cheap labor and we have cheap land. And we say we have good environment. Lets do practical assistance in afghanistan. What will happen in that regard . Will u. S. Private sector will not go there . Okay. Apart from security concerns that we do have in afghanistan, but i can say for peaceful afghanistan we do have a lot of opportunities. I can say afghanistan is a land of opportunity for everyone. For mining. For agricultural. For carpet. For carpet and for gemstones and everything. And in this stage, i would have one suggestion, i would have one comment that if you would be able to create jobs for afghanistan, they are trained with technology, they are trained with development, they are trained with other things, and other sources of technology knowledge. Because we do have a very talented, young people that they are trained, well trained with those competencies, but unfortunately they didnt get a job inside the country. And its very easy to have them online base. Because right now i do believe we have so many workers from india, china, other countries that are working for Technology Companies online based. So as a concern of security, if you really want to create jobs for afghan, so one of the good part that we do help them, we will be able to help them by getting jobs and getting them available with your courier. Thank you so much. Okay. Just one final question. And then im going to turn it to mr. Huger for final thoughts. And then open up q a. If you had this is a room full of foreign investors. If you had to sell afghanistan, what would you tell them . Yeah. Lets say investors looking for four factors, labor, land, technology. What else . Security. Security is fine because its already there, security, yeah. Capital. Capital. Exactly. Cant forget capital. Right. Exactly. So these two, capital and technology, from the United States, land and Human Resource or man power from afghanistan, this makes such a nice joint venture. And i believe those who are armed in fighting against the government, daily, start working with those companies, because now they are hiring to have some income. And for them, they are at work, right, to go and make some of this. So for those people its a job. But if you give them better job, secure job, and better pay, so they will think differently and also lead to better peaceful afghanistan, and also a good knowledgeable competent man power in afghanistan. And this should not only be forecast in only the, shall i say the original private sector. We have a lot of other good things. For example, mining. Mining is not just gender. A lot of mining that we are better in one of them compared to others. And also in the value chain, we are much better, for example, in lets say, as mr. Jeff said, wheat, processing wheat or wheat product compared to walnuts for example. So we recognize and identify those areas. And then these two things in afghanistan is very well attractive for the businessmen and business sector. Raw material. Man power. And land. Cheap land. So we have businesses in other countries in other words. Okay. Did you want to comment . Okay. So of course i mentioned before that, first of all, my message for youth investors. Lets help us to get peaceful afghanistan. And then of course we do have so many opportunities for you to invest in afghanistan. Because we do have the lower labor costs. We do have a very young talented generation there waiting for better couriers. So we do have mining. We do have agricultural. We do have many things that you can invest there. But first of all l of course, we should be more focused for better security. Because if you do, we do want you to be there with better achievements and Better Business future. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Mr. Huger, do you want to say some parting thoughts . And then well have 20 minutes of q a. Yes. Thank you. And thank you panelists. It was a very good discussion. And many different point of view. If i might presume to summarize this rich discussion, i would say that perhaps private Sector Development as with the overall aspiration for afghanistan is derived very much from addressing the security and governance concerns. And the International Community is and will support afghan efforts in that direction. In security im not qualified to address. Government says it relates to business and it goes to taking opportunities of afghanistan is pretty much in our lien, not exclusively. There i would say that we cant want it more than afghanistan does. Thats also true anywhere. Including any neighborhood. Including any country. We cant want it more than afghanistan does. My sense of that issue of political will, having been away from afghanistan for about four years, is that in the National Unity government, we have a real partner who does have the political will, in spite of all the challenges, to move forward with things that make sense to afghanistan. We dont always understand immediately why something might make sense to afghanistan. But i do think that we do understand that we have a real partner. With that, and there was discussion here of different mechanisms, different contexts and approaches to the governments effort and societys effort to translate that political will into a reality that supports private Sector Development. They are there. And we will support them. We are supporting them as are the other donors. So thats good news. But its not easy news. There is a direct relationship, i believe, between the progress in governance, the progress in security, and the opportunity to get business, local and foreign. I think it also makes sense to be practical about what are the real opportunities. And in this panel, many sectors and areas of endover were mentioned, but ill emphasize the over all agri business, the extract tives, the ict that jeff was talking about. I would add, too, that we are very important in our trade event in india. That they are not exclusively related to india, but they are important, and that is private sector involvement in health and education. Fee for Service Medical services and affordable private schools. Those are very interesting and potentially lucrative businesses. There are networks of private schools in pakistan, in india, and in many other places. There is work going on in that realm in afghanistan. And we are supporting it. So there are a lot of Different Things that the private sector can do, as security and governance evolve for the better. And as private investment finds opportunities there, that will help the security. And as the people in government have the political will and as was said here, listen to the people who are actually in a position to invest in mining or education or producing fruits and vegetables, then it will get right. But its not going to be quick. However, from the u. S. Government perspective, its important. And so we have a conditions based strategy, not with a limited time frame, nor with limited ambitions, we have biggss th ambitions with track that becomes stable enough to manage extremism within its borders. And all what weve been talking about is part and parcel with the ability to handle that type of thing. So i thank you you all for the opportunity to participate in the panel. And congratulate all the members for your interesting comments and we all look forward tour comments and questions. Thank you. [ applause ] we are going to take two questions, and then, a round of two questions. Can you please identify yourself and your affiliation. The gentlemen here and the lady here. Thank you very much. My name is mike delaney. I was a foreign officer and jobs always involved in south asia and recently in the department of congress in the development program. My question relates to something mr. Huger said about external trade. And i fully agree with the idea that you really need to it be able to get your goods out of the country. Because if you cant, then there is really little purpose in developing these industries. We have struggled mightily, so far without much success, in getting a good viable, longterm Transit Route through the port of ka reachry, which is the traditional Transit Route, and this is a long not particularly happy story. The canada har air route is good idea. And i wish everyone well. I think it has limitations in terms of longterm sustainability from a financial point of view. And i dont see canada har, you talk to traders going through canada har or iran, there are all kind of problems, most of them have serious issues with payment and everything else. So i get back to something you said, mr. Gregory huger, about doing everything you can to get the trade situation done. Can you outline what efforts are under way to try to normalize afghan, pakistan trade transit particularly through the traditional route, through ka rash chi port. Thank you . Hi, thank you very much. Im dr. Region in the region, very good to see you. Id like to ask you more of Women Entrepreneurs, the kind of businesses they are supporting. What happens to the young women who go to the universities in afghanistan, what are they studying, what are their plans for when they graduate. Are they staying in the country . And if you could talk a little bit about working at home for some afghan women this might be more desirable. So what opportunities are there to do homework . And that might even be with it or other enterprises. So if you could elaborate offense that, i think weon that we would all like to hear. Maybe i could take a crack at the first question. Very good question. Thank you for it. We are involved in the region, not just one country. The issue you raced is a region ol issue. Its not one that we can solve on our own. Its one that needs to be dealt with in a regional context. And its like one of those russian dolls, you have the little one that is the core, then as you go out gets bigger but looks sort of the same. This is one of those things. And so in that way, we are involved as the United States in a south asia regional strategy, and we are working with the neighborhood to help create and act on an enhanced appreciation of the benefits of open border for goods between and among the countries in the region, but particularly going to your question, to the afghanistan pakistan. At one level, we financed and managed through our implementing partners, the construction of world class highways that connect the ring road with the indi indis highway which connects them all together through pakistan. We have supported both governments in the creation of the transit trade agreement and efforts to discuss and improve that and implement it. Thats a work in progress with a long ways to go. We worked and are working with the private sector in both countries. I mentioned in my comments two weeks ago i was sit wg the leadership of the chamber of congress in pugh shower, many of them are old friends with my service there. And they have influence that we dont have. So working at the broader diplomatic political level, infrastructure level, we also have in terms of helping create better procedures for customs and border clearance, have had for years a project in afghanistan. We have one also now in pakistan to help with that. But we cant want this more than the people who are directly involved want it. And so far the collective will has led to a bit of an impasse. And we hope that the result of all of what we are doing together with the various participants in the south asia region, and its neighbors, will lead to a viable answer to your question. It will be a major source of opportunity for people. And it will also be a major linkage that will be piece builder over decades. The physical infrastructure is there. The administrative support is there. The political will is expressed on both sides. But we need to have a common will to get it done. Well be a part of that but we cant be the only one. I think there is also a component to this that, based on the hub that afghanistan serves in, and the position that its in in the region, afghanistan has to depend on a very diversified multi modal Transportation System to export to the region. It shouldnt be dependent on roads and shouldnt be dependent ton rails. Should have competition. I would like to see the Afghan Government create a competition where the air Transportation System is it competing against their road system. So if we build a noncorrupt, or as little corruption as feasible in an air and Transportation System, that will put a positive pressure on road transportation, custom windows, all the wto requirements they have to fulfill. So i think thats a positive thing. Second point, at the india conference that we attended, at the last day of the conference it didnt get any publicity because they made it after the conference basically started to close down. Air india announced they have direct flights from deli to canada har, har at, i think, gentleman lan lap a bob, in addition the turks have flights coming in. And that might creating more competition. They might be going out but coming in empty. So what they are doing on the charter air cargo side can open up a host of other options that maybe those economies can be improved because they are private sector driven. Indian companies will now want to get some of that shipment out cheaper than what it takes them to have something sit for two weeks to get into ka rashry or someplace. Mrs. Mozhgan wafiq, the question on women, and the opportunities. Okay. Actually, women in afghanistan are involved with both traditional and nontraditional activities. Of course involved nowadays with condition instruction, hi city forms, so they are doing different nontraditional businesses as well. But the most number of women are more involved with the traditional businesses, like carpet weaving, handicraft, jewelry making. And forral cultural part they are also busy with pros stesing Agricultural Products like making the jam, pickles from our culture site. So in part of creating jobs for women home based, i think if you find a good market for carpet weaving women, because there are a few more, its still comforting to work at home doing the carpet weaving. But unfortunately they couldnt find a good market to sell them with a good price. Because they have to do about six months to complete one carpet. But then they will sell that carpet for 600 which is nothing if you count all the expenses Raw Materials and those things. And we also can create jobs for women home based by providing them some jewelry, basic tools, that they would be able to create and produce jewelry at home t a home. And then again we need to find them a market. And for part of jam making and pickles, they do need very basic tools of packaging for the pickles and for their jam to produce them and then they can bring them in the local market. So we can help them with providing tools of package ing d some quality to make sure they have better product. Of course, for part of high city, i mentioned before, we do have a very talented afghan female, that they are well trained with part of the city. But if we create jobs home base on online based, so that will be more beneficial for them to do that. [ inaudible question ] okay. The girls were studying in universities, they get jobs at different sectors. As i have mentioned, they are more comfortable to working in back office, thats why they are looking to become a teacher, working with government, working with private sector, not with the sales and marketing. More want to work with finance, hr and add min admin departments. And after the universities, they are normally working with private, government, sectors. But of course in the last few years the number of jobs, the number of Job Opportunities really decrease in afghanistan. So we have a very huge number of females that are job less right now. But they are very having good skills and education. Okay. Two more questions. The lady overthe there and the gentleman over here. Good afternoon everyone. My name is it akawardi and im running a company in construction in afghanistan t my question will be for investors. Investors coming to afghanistan or who wants to invest, how much they will consider the afghan women owned firms . Because so far whatever i heard any investors who comes into afghanistan, no females are involved at all. And i want to know how much they are going to be giving attention to afghan women owned firms. And also regarding entrepreneurs, afghan Women Entrepreneurs. The percentage has been reduced so badly it came to. 0009 . Only 2,000 afghan women owned firms existing right now. Thank you. My name is it hussein ali mahramm. I. Im intern. My question is to mr. Jeff, im very interested to hear your perspective as a president of Afghan American Chamber of commerce regarding my question. If you are supposed to sell afghanistan to businesses, what would be your selling point . Thank you very much. Okay. The question on Women Entrepreneurs, i dont know, maybe you want to answer that, mrs. Mozhgan wafiq. Regarding investors . Okay the first question was about Women Entrepreneurs. The first question was about Women Entrepreneurs. Yes. I think it comes from a progressive change of attitude, both within the women and within the society, to be brave enough to set up a business even here is a rare thing. And so many of them go bankrupt very quickly. Yet they are the biggest source of employment anywhere. So for anyone to take on setting up a new business is a big challenge. It takes a brave soul to do that. For a woman in afghanistan to do that takes a much braver soul with some support. And it would be probably unrealistic to expect to have a very large number of Women Entrepreneurs coming in almost immediately l immediately. In that context, the one initiative of which i am aware is the u. S. Id promote program and the basic concept there is the people who are really going to solve or take to the next level the issues of gender as they apply to women in afghanistan are the afghan women themselves. And the project then focuses on a group of 75,000 women who have at least a High School Education. Thats evolved a bit over the last few years to have it be also some that do not have a High School Education or university. But basically the women who have gotten the education and gone through all of the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that it takes to get through school in afghanistan as a woman, then to provide over a period of years specific help to them in terms of training, in terms of mentoring, in terms of getting entrance into Civil Society and business, to then play a significant role, not subservient role, in society. And that over a period of time those 75,000 women are going not to figure out the whole equation, but theyll be in a good position to move it forward. And alongside of that are many different initiatives, some are supported by donors, some are private initiatives, some are government initiatives. But they support groups of female entrepreneurs. There was one that recently graduated from a Business Incubator 17 Women Entrepreneurs with their businesses. Now, thats not transformative of afghanistan, but its important. [ inaudible question ] for example, they want to invest. Okay. I was answering what i thought was the previous question. So moving to your question, if i might, im sure the other panelists will having to say as well. Well, maybe. I dont think businesses come looking for Women Entrepreneurs or other subsets that relate to things other than the partner to do the business in hand. So i dont think youll get very far to expect International Businesses to come looking for Women Owned Business partners unless the women owned aspect of is particularly advantageous to the business to be done. Ive experienced in some countries in the middle east a situation where i in my business role realize that the best slice of that market for partners was with Women Owned Businesses and women professionals. Because they were so far so much more capable than their male competitors because the male competitors are already gleaned all of the good opportunities. And these wonderful women in their businesses were sitting there struggling trying to get something going. And i, as a foreign business person, heading up a foreign company, was able to link up with the women employees and the women businesses who were suppliers or partners in one way or another, and they were so much better than the male ones who were available to me who didnt really have the hunker to do well. They sort of expected to get the business. So i think there are advantages that ive seen that Women Owned Businesses can exploit, but its not just because you are a woman or a woman owned business. You have to have something more than that. And the effort that we all have is to create that something more than that and to help people have those opportunities. Just add very quickly. There are a number of u. S. Businesses that will specifically try to encourage support women entertainments in various areas. We currently have dina powell working at the white house that was in charge of Goldman Sachs of a very special program to mentor Women Entrepreneurs from arm around the world by giving them networks. Didnt necessarily give them a contract but created those opportunities. And similarly in the years that i was in afghanistan and greg was there too, we had a number of businesses that were specifically expressing interest in supporting Women Entrepreneurs because they knew how hard it was to be an entrepreneur in afghanistan. And a number of them were, as greg said, in markets where they knew they could sell the products that the women were making, because there would be a rack tiffany attractiveness to doing that. But also if you establish a reputation for honesty not being corrupt and doing good work, that also can work in a favor of a company that you created and led. And there are the challenge is making that known, finding the Networking Opportunities that let those qualities be known to others coming into the country. Okay. I have just one comment. So the way the afghan private sector economy structured right now about 92 of the economy is small firms. About 6, 7 is large firms. And there is virtually no medium size sector industry sector. So my recommendation would be to identify strong sustained managed women owned companies, enterprises that have been around for ten years, and develop a targeted program thats going to go in and help them to build a capacity to become a major medium size enterprise in the country. That makes them more competitive with external partners, especially investors, but also makes them a better trade partner inside the country, because from that medium size sector you might be doing manufacturing tv widgets that go to india or china but within ten years based on any model thats been done, you should be able to defeat that Chinese Company on price and quality within ten years of doing that subcontract work. Thats how they built their economies. And thats where i think the women can have a leading role in afghanistan. Because their tends to be more well managed. Biggest problem is sustainability. And that goes back to greg they have a whole bunch of other things culturally that they have to deal with separate from the business aspect. So question on the private sector, basically i dont think are you a member of my association, which im happy to have you join, because i usually give this pitch at our membership meetings. The divide is frontier sectors, and private investors, right here in washington investing in Afghan Enterprises some up to 100,000 million in afghanistan. But i dont want to identify them. And the kind of stuff they are in is very esoteric but it works. And been in afghanistan over a decade sochlt some of those frontier investors very much appeal to the pitch that if you get in now, you can structure your deal much better than what you are going to be able to structure in five, six years from now. Secondly, that the government is interested and is open to concession narry negotiations on private sector transitions of scaled opportunities. For a frontier investor, scale is really important. Bigger the scale, the more likelihood i can make my money back faster which means i dont have to be in the country to get my money back. Then my longer Term Investment is gravy for me. Also, i think that for frontier investors, they already know who the main afghan players are in the sectors that they want to operate in. Their biggest problem is they might not be able to get that Afghan Company to partner with them. So thats a different issue that we can talk about maybe separately. On the mining, energy, ict and ago business sectors, my pitch would be if you focus on the regional players, regional investors, that have existing operations, all around afghanistan but not in afghanistan, those players are going to be very interested in the marketing play that they have potentially of going in to afghanistan now, exactly the panel has talked about, cheaper labor, transportation grids that they couldnt get going anywhere else, maybe even reduced corruption levels on the pass through, because now they can export out product out, or maybe they could do a rail to a truck to an airport or Something Like that. And lastly is for mining, because mining seems to be the cause on the investor side. Afghanistan has huge problems on the Mining Sector side. Part of it is that the government doesnt control most of the country. So as a result you are negotiating transactions where the security of that investment and for these mining investments you have to put a lot of capital in early and equipment in early. You wont get an investor to do that unless there is an integrated negotiation between the national government, the regional governors, and maybe some other players that are critical to that investment coming up. I dont think its impossible. It has been done in other places. We can, dan is not here, but dan has talked about columbia and integrated investments went into columbia after they were able to get stability going there. I think there is models. And talked about that we can use. And we should use. Okay. We are right on time. I want to thank everybody for coming and for excellent panel. And come again to our next event. Okay. Thank you. [ applause ] next, Hector Schamis on agalar argentina future. The hudson insurance stutitute Forum Earlier this month. Good afternoon. Its a great pleasure to welcome you to our conference in agalar argentina this afternoon. For any student orr