Preserving it under the umbrella of different federal departments. The institute of American History posted this 90 minute class. Heres our exploration of progressive era responses to what was understood to be the end of the frontier. If we have time, we will get to a massive adventure in applied history where i got to go to Harney County where the National Wildlife refuge was taken over. I will have a presentation on becausetime permits that was probably the most intense experience on the ground. Very divided over that takeover. I hope i can get to that as well. First, a guessing game. This is somebody who said a lot of things that i think people have forgotten, including me. I have forgotten some of these things. Heres the question. For the sake of a wider audience, i will read it. The Public Domain has been a force of profound importance in the nationalization and development of government. The person who said that is probably not someone you would have expected to have said that, because it was someone who said a lot of things and he or she did not end up hitting print getting credit for that. Who said that . Isnt it fun to be told you are going to be tricked . [laughter] [inaudible] it is in your reading. [laughter] i said that. No, i didnt. [laughter] no, but it is so much that i could have said it. The public lands, they are the core of the way the federal government grows. It is one of those bedrock reasons for saying that 19thcentury west and westward expansion is key to the power of the federal government. Yes. I was going to say that i have sat at his desk. Frederick Jackson Turner said that. He has benefited from you folks being here because i reread the significance of the front tier in American History and i dont know what was going on. There are seven off quoted passages of the front tier strips the pioneer of his formal dress and puts them in a canoe. There is a few thing like that that everybody reads and remembers. This time i thought, i might as well read every word. There is a lot of stuff about indians in there. Who knew . Apparently, anyone who reads it would know that. Frequent references to the significance not necessarily to the significance of indians but to their presence and the importance of settlers responses to them and to the national government. The trails, the importance of indian trials. What i think might have triggered my the 1986 Patricia Limerick response is that it is so much that essay is so much about the eastern and midwestern United States. It is really focused on the not far west. That might have been what set me off in the olden days. Interesting fact about frederick Jackson Turner, he taught at utah state. Yes, logan. That is a beautiful drive, logan. That is a lovely drive to logan, which is neither here nor there. Turner loved beautiful open spaces and i think he enjoyed going there. In his papers, at the time of was an earlyere draft of its essay called the significance of mountains and deserts in American History. Come there making him think, i need to pay more attention to the place i had taught summer school. I hope iay that am giving some demonstration of how peculiar it is to think you know something and then when you actually read the whole thing with care, you think, oops. 30 years or more 35 years or more of misrepresenting frederick Jackson Turner. I owe the family and apology. But it is good, it was a very wondrous thing. That brings us to the columbian exposition, 1893. Speaking of small world connections. The famous episode of american cultural history and intellectual history. Frederick Jackson Turner was there and he gave his speech there that has more in it than i realized until recently. It does leave this question hanging, what a cliffhanger. The frontier is over. The era of World History has closed. The frontier took strangers and transformed them into americans. It is over. Dont stop there, mr. Turner. Please keep going. He did not, except over his lifetime he would make various efforts to find equivalents. He pushed education. He thought education might be the form of continuing opportunity and continuing recruitment of people from outside into the american world. Find his, butto they were nowhere near as compelling a set of statements. And also, at the columbian exposition was buffalo bill cody. They were not on a Panel Discussion. [laughter] which was a shame. Because that would have been great, but they did not need a Panel Discussion because Richard White wrote this great essay in American Culture where he compares turner and cody and brings them into a conversation. In essence, he sees both of them as this is my phrase, and i his coworkers in the overproduction of frontier nostalgia. That turner and cody had their differences and they were both major practitioners and nostalgia for a west that had gone away. So his shows were pretty much in the same spirit as the frontier. What will we do next . We will see the wild west. Remember, you are never supposed to say show. That is how you tell the world you tell the world you are sophisticated and western culture studies. If you say, buffalo bill codys wild west show, that makes it clear you are an outsider because he never said the word show and he did not want people to call it a show. It was the wild west. Did you know you could betray your outsider status of easily . Would you all like to say it together . Wild west. That was really very effective. You will find that gets you someplace in very limited circles. Do not expect to go out in the world and everybody will be, how sophisticated this person is. Frontier nostalgia, richard does cody was the west that seen as lost and departed, was the much wilder and unsettled kind of west and turner was feeling sad about the taming of the west. It started as a wilderness. It turned into log cabins. The log cabins turned into comfortable farm houses. That is the western process. Richard white makes a fine point about how turner did not need to have visual illustrations in his text because if he said log cabin, everybody had it in their minds. He had some of his key terms, stagecoach, wagon train or log cabin. The log cabin to showed up in peoples minds. It would be silly to say, and here is a log cabin. As to why that text can be so evocative without illustration is because the readers own mind in the 1890s and for many years after would supply that. Here are two nostalgiacs. Is that the word . And they are representing they are both successful in their own way. Richards essay is really good about saying, lets not have one be the sophisticated, serious express or of the meaning of the west. They are both equally effective and they are both equally creative and thoughtful. Has anybody read this essay . I read it a while ago. I read it more than a while ago comic given the difference of our ages. I read it many whiles ago. I reread it and it is really good. It gives you something to do if the poor students are, turner, who is that guy . If you want to pet that up, pairing him with cody gives you that angle. He does draw some very interesting comparisons between them and sees them as kind of coworkers in this really broad Cultural Movement of this is important. [laughter] i mean, it is what elliott would say deal with it. I dont know why someone could not research this. I am looking at you, britain. Somebody could look into that. Its pretty interesting they were in chicago at the Columbian Exchange in some kind of proximity and that is interesting, but this is really interesting and important for our understanding of regional conversations and so on. Anyway. Back not back to the point, this is a really important point. This is the term that david , it is a helpful term. Beinger anxiety, not anxiety felt by frontiers people, but people who were not frontiers people who were around in the late 19th century and early 20th century. Americans who were anxious about hanging questions. What will happen to the United States without a frontier . The anxiety this has explained to we are, that will be a rough transition and there may not be anything on the other end of the transition except compounded people. This is a really good book. The end of american exceptionalism. Frontier anxiety from the old west to the new deal. That very clear about sense of cody and turner, something really important shifted in American History. Something really important had been a response to that, that many of the Franklin Roosevelts new deal had that same sense. Sometimes, very explicitly, henry wallace, with the end of the frontier, government had better get bigger. Government has to step in and supply services that the frontier provided. If you do not have free land, you better have some other source of widely available understanding an opportunity. The upsurge it seems to have been hard on people to deal with. I think it is ok to call it an affliction of frontier anxiety. Just to translate that, a growing conviction of some sectors of american society. Expansion produced mixed results, and some of those results were very troubling. I dont know how extremely troubling, and really undesirable. To use one of many examples, i put the phrase at the time that would influence things that would come up. Timber famine. If you are not a beaver, it is hard to be hungry for timber. It is a word word to associate timber with famine. Unitedtion that the states, which had been the most wondrously for estate part of a continent, the astounding force resources forests and resources, in some part of north america had been ripped through, wisconsin, michigan, the upper midwest, just chopped. Cut over. That anxiety, fear, terror, that that might continue. With the far west or the rockies. The same calamity might have been there and the resources of the continent would be a bunch of stumps. Timber famine, the notion that the United States had been astoundingly timber rich my end up timber impoverished. That scared people. That scared, not just people interested in the profession of forestry. But anybody inside a picture of the cut over lands in upper michigan and upper wisconsin. Those kinds of concerns. What are we going to do with this affliction of frontier anxiety . Are we just going to feel miserable, or is there something we can do . Is there an action we can take . One weirdness of reading turner so closely, i realized that i share quite and enthusiasm for phases and eras. I have not realized. Peace and a pod, birds of a feather, we like doing that. Turner and i both like saying, here is the indians, the ranch grazer, the farmer. Just lining things up in phases and sequences. We have that in common. I like this quite a bit. I like it because it is a experience we have all had. Is there anyone in the room who writes so wonderfully that the first draft is beyond excellent and he would stop there, and everyone says do not touch a thing, it is so lovely . Would you care to identify yourself . Do you reach such hostility that you fill it might not be better for us. Any halfway normal person has to keep going. The lincoln limericks were three or four drafts. I will say what you probably are ready know, which is, that is a great habit to have in classes. Before i met jeff limerick, i used to sit in classes writing limericks. It is brilliant as a technique. Pretend you were writing a limerick. You are thinking, but you are sort of going, turner, burner. You are thinking very hard. Moment you think, ive got it now, so you write that down. You look like the most thoughtful notetaker. It worked really well for me as a student. I have classes of students and some of them have adopted this technique. Which is fine, because it is better than drowsiness and so on. It does require you to do several drafts. This is not quite on the main track. I did write some very beautiful limericks about warren hardy. When the professor was lecturing on hardys administration. One has the most beautiful internal rhyme. It appears in any limerick. His slogan was a return to normalcy and he was retreating from all of the International Engagements of the first world war. There was an old man warren who hated all things foreign he would like to and spent his time gambling and thank you, thank you. I think everyone was skeptical when i said it had the most beautiful internal rhyme. It was not the most beautiful internal rhyme. He like to live normally, drunken informally. Is a good strategy have given you for the rest of your lives. You can certainly use it today. I like this notion of the three drafts of the American West. The first draft, we do not know when it starts or ends. That is what we have been talking about, westward expansion, that is the first draft. We have not talked about the timber lining lodging business, but it is in there. The second draft is what we are saying with this session coming into being, the progressive era. The sort of, that first draft did not come out right. Cut over lands. Minds that were once full of activity abandoned. Maybe theres something we should be thinking about. Bison almost extinct. Various forms of looking at the outcomes of the first draft. Floods in utah. Salt lake city with deforested hillsides and mountainsides and floods. It is hard to think where you would look if you dont want to have that moment of thinking. This did not seem to come out exactly as i wouldve liked. Era is thesive second raft. The third draft is still in progress. Whatever features of the third draft, it has to take into account the rise of environmentalism, continued population growth to the point where we really do have to say it is hard to say where western expansion started. It might be harder to say where it ended. World war ii and military expansion and continuing into the cold war. I dont know where you would say, well, period. Westward expansion, completed. Done. Still significant issues of the Fastest Growing region in the west in the last 30 years. This is tied to environmentalism, a more conscious and inescapable reckoning. With consequences and legacy. There was some of that in the second draft. It goes much deeper and wider. This continued puzzle over legitimacy and authority to define progress. Who is really a deserving westerner who qualifies as a person who should be making decisions . People in new jersey, one of the public lands to them . Who gets to say what progress means . That is one way of saying how crucial the progressive era was for the west because its the second draft. Its a big deal. And i believe this is true. If we had more time, maybe we could do this as a party game tonight. I believe this is true. Wherever you look in the American West today, wherever you direct your gaze, you will see something that is a legacy of the progressive era. I thought we might do it as a kind of party game and you have to suggest something. Ski slopes. I could do that one. This is the remarkable outcome and with this in the picture, the progressive era just gets astounding in the scale of its importance. Much of the west is the home of millions of people and it is now much of that is now owned as private property. And even more of the west is still in public ownership. Which is a Pretty Amazing thing, that quotation from turner. Turner did not see it coming. He did not know that is what he was saying when he said the Public Domain heated nationalization. I want to go back to what i was saying early on. What is happening here is that progress from first draft to second draft, from westward expansion to progressive era, it progress course. Progress is changing its course. That shift from the westward expansion definition of progress transferring the Public Domain into private ownership going from that definition of progress to the progressive era, that is a giant and disorienting change. Almost a full reversal in the meaning of progress. It is not a full reversal because the progressive era still has plenty of enthusiasm for finding resources in the west and developing them. It is not a full reversal. Anna how fire would go with saying how much shorter it is of a 180 degree reversal. We cannot be surprised this shift, even though it was under way 130 years ago, we cannot be surprised that the shift still leave some people and communities in the west unsettled and rattled. Here is a technique that has actually been incredibly helpful to me. I just learned about it in february i guess it was a year ago february. This is a person named randy olson, he is one gifted communicator. He is a biologist. He was a tenured professor at the university of New Hampshire. He became more concerned about the troubles that scientists have in communicating to wider audiences. He left a tenured job at the university of New Hampshire and he went to film school at the university of southern california, which scares me. Every time he tells that story, i think it is scary. Are we all breathing normally again, because that is scary. This is the second book. And he knows my husband. He likes my husband did husband. The book. Ally likes houston, we have a narrative. What he offers in it and i really have found this to be almost too useful. The abt method of communication. And, but, therefore. Randy is a scientist and he has looked at different public figures and how they use or do not use the abt method. He has seen a correlation of the effectiveness of presenters. Writers as well as speakers. Heres mine, my adoption of this. And it does lead me to uncharacteristic brevity. This is why it is too useful because sometimes if you use the method, the audience is sort of, stop now. We have got your point. You cannot do that because we are here for a little while longer. Here we have the abt of this. The progressive era was a time of disorienting change and , then you use your and, reformers responded with vigor but some features of our heritage from the progressives have proven to be troubling in their own right. Therefore, we are invited to reckon with the complex heritage from the progressive and positive and effective ways. We can map the escape route from this and seven of it ability because we are quick with the necessary skills to accept that invitation of working with progressives. I will say this. A person representing one of the Major Political parties in 2016 is a person who says and and and and and and. I wont use gendered pronouns or anything like that, but it is quite striking when you start to think what happens in public expression. It does not have anything to do with the quality of the thought but how effectively it gets through. I think academics are particularly prayed to the end, and, and, and, and. Very handy thing. This is the core of our inheritance from the progressives that we may fight over the public land but at least we have public lands to fight over and it is a wonderful gift to have such an occasion for dispute. There are two or three big frameworks i would like to install in our conversational framework. These are two historically derived romances and i think it is right to use the word romance because they are appealing, seductive. They pull people in in a process that has as much sentiment and emotion as it has reason and evidence. And they have to learn to live together. They are not doing great with that. The romance of centralized authority and expertise is a legacy of the progressive era, that we will do better, we will avoid less of these unhappy outcomes we saw in the first draft, if we hand decisions and authority over to a centralized federal government place. It will be an agency, a good chance it will be part of the department of interior and they will think and then offer solutions and war solutions and resolutions that will guide better behavior. That is a powerful romance and it is so intense when it comes into play. I think he is the best example of somebody who really thinks. The first chief forrester, Theodore Roosevelts great friend, the first founding leader of the Forest Service. Charismatic, really smart, really thoughtful. He represents that. Many, many acts of legislation , many executive branch decisions all rest on the notion that someone in the department of the interior or Forest Service and agriculture, someone in those two agencies will have a very smart thought and that will make things work better. The romance is already very strong. The romance of local control is just as strong. That is the legacy of westward expansion. The locally locals go to places, they settle, they know the place, they developed the place, they know intimately. Those are the ones who know what happened there. Those two romances are both very powerful. Neither is going to go away. They need to be friends. Not going so good right now. That will happen with friendships. How many in your have had a good friendship that turned into a bad situation and then came back is a good friendship . We have green, yellow and red cards. One a monk us remember that. How many had a good friendship that went poorly and remain poorly remained poor . We probably would get plenty on that, but i am not asking that. Blindk i can take that on faith. You guys are pretty quick on the draw. You have also been there. I will not say that this cant happen, i think it has happened. In two ways that people would ever know that. It is happening on the ground level out in the west. Hardee county is nationally famous for armed people taking over public lands. 10 maybe 20 years before that, that, a group called the High Desert Partnership met, there were federal officials for the wildlife refuge. There were ranchers, there were environmentalists from portland, oregon and they met and they thought and reached a consensus plan for the wildlife refuge. See that in the newspapers or press coverage . A positive story, no one will be interested in that. Lets get some more armed men. Be a place, High Desert Partnership is where it is at. That is where the cohabiting came back together. I have no idea why that would not figure in anybodys national reporting. Maybe it did and i just missed it, but, ok. These are several people who have an interesting view. I dont know that they would ever use the phrase progressive and what that might mean to them. They certainly have quite a colorful and interesting imaginative view of western history. There was a time where ranchers were of very prosperous and very collaborative and very goodnatured and they had complete control of the land and they used the land wisely. There is county, astounding tension and anguish in the early. Of the 19th century. There was a guy named pete french who was allpowerful cattleman. To have a notion that you will go there and you will speak for the importance of returning the i am nothe ranchers, making them come and go, that is not what i am doing. It is a very imaginative form of history and it makes buffalo bill cody look like an accuracy kind of guy. There they are. Here is the progressive legacy. I dont know that they ever got it. I think ranchers in the area tried to say we have a complicated history. I got to speak there, that was my first question. I asked the audience there if it gives an advantage in dealing with contention to have had such a contentious history years ago . They know that had a contentious history. The bundys work from elsewhere and they did not know that. Here is a progressive legacy in a grid map that shows you the percentage of the land and individual states that is under federal ownership and public ownership. It is a little bit like the water precipitation maps that we had before. If theres anybody who would help interpret this as to which region pretty striking. If you wondered if this seemed like nevada was really crappy that could be part of it. This does not include indian reservations. Because indian reservations are sovereign land, it would not be included in that. What happened to that is a historical process that led to that, that much of these lands are high elevations. They had limited precipitation. They were rugged and on uneven terrain. They were remote, it was difficult to get to them. The phrase sometimes used is the leftover land, the land nobody wanted. A good share of that land is land that did not going to private ownership because homesteaders were not that goofy, they were full of hope, but they would not say, i have an idea, how about the middle of the nevada desert . There are ranchers there. There is reasons for that and the progressive era reckoning with the first draft of western expansion, and then saying there is a different way of possessing and directing and owning those land. Here are the different agencies that create the pattern that you just saw the percentages. The smallest one is probably orange, the fish and wildlife service. The National Park service would be the second smallest. The yellow is the best one. The bureau of land management, it is sometimes called the nations largest landlord. The biggest unit of land management. Forest service behind is the lime green. The Forest Service people are very charming. They refer to their Forest Service uniform as their pickle suit. Very funny. The darker green. That is the green we have for Park Services here, but they are pretty interesting. They had a phrase that not all of them use. But i have heard the music. They wanted to know when you feel like you are a Forest Service person . They will phrase that as, when did you get your green underwear . [laughter] pretty funny. I used to say federal agencies and cultures. I dont think so. I think cultures are something that people who live in the community for ages. Here is the department of defense. Military lands are very important. Military lands are very interesting environmental preserves because if you bomb them, then stop arming them, water fog for animals to take home. There has been quite a pattern. Study at thent to nevada test site, which is not where everyone would want to go, but that would be one stupid bird that would say that i dont care to be there because of bad history. They are sometimes functional wildlife refuges. We are going from the outcome of the progressive era all of these agencies are not progressive. The forest agencies in the park service would land in the progressive era. It is a little bit more complicated chronology. I will have several heritages that we will go through here. This is a complicated second draft progressive era. This is for the 20th century and the 21st century. The first of the heritages is the most unmistakable. One we studied history, we know the way things are now are not the way they have always been. In the progressive era, when the federal government is claiming all of this land, has there been a time in the hundred years since the progressive era when the federal government claimed land and then said maybe we should sell back to private . I would just reread that second draft a little bit. The federal government in the progressive area was not claiming land. It was taking land that was in the Public Domain. The formation of the United States, the nation required that the first states seed their lands to the west. That becomes Public Domain. Louisiana purchase becomes Public Domain. It is not the federal government taking land, it is the federal government reclassifying land that was already in their possession. But over the past hundred years, yes, there have been lots of land swaps. If youre trying to consolidate a private part and there is private landholdings that got caught up in the designation of public land, there will be swaps sometimes when you swaps on federal land for that. One of the most interesting stories i heard a wonderful talk a couple months ago has this article about defense were, military research, and testing personnel locations how in the new deal, land got redesignated as military land. We have talked about Manual National monuments in the antiquities act. President roosevelt once to designate plans for military land. His attorney general says he does not have executive authority. Then he says oh you can do that. People talk to the attorney general and the attorney general says, you can do that. The designation of Military Lines is really interesting. There is changing status as to whether there is really much of an occasion of saying this is a big block of land we will acquire that. Federal government acquires land to round up borders but it is never anywhere near the scale of the situation. Great question. Bureaucrats. Here are two very famous bureaucrats, lewis and clark. They were on a federally funded and mandated expedition, they were bureaucrats. I have a Campaign Going that was going quite poorly to take the word bureaucrat and make it a word of neutrality that says someone who works for a state or government unty or any other kind of agencies or organizations. I am trying to do that because at this stagene people are saying, why would you take up such a cause . What we do as a society ive done it myself is when you find a person that was for an agency or bureau and you admire them, you go to the department of Motor Vehicles and you are treated well and you move quickly and the person who is helping you with that, you probably think that is a great person. If youre going to have to classify them officially you would say that that is a great public servant. As soon as you find a bureaucrat that you like, you take them out of the category of bureaucrat and reclassify them as a public servant, which leaves only dredges and petty tyrants over bureaucrats. You just said bureau worker. The word rat, i have thought about that word for years and never noticed the word rat in there. Ok so get your cards. Is that . I have my own answer. If you agree with me that i idea andke use of the apply history to public communication than you would put up a green. If you would think i would take a conversation and make it work if i talk about rat, or yellow, it might work. If you think i should go to town with this insight that has never come to be before, the word rat is rather conspicuous. I would like to see the green for that. Please do not take a complicated world and make it more complicated by bringing rats. Reds for that. The reds are not holding back. The green might have a narrow edge. Secretary of the interior, james watt has a habit when people are getting sentimental about prairie dogs, they are not dogs and they are rodents. So the secretary and others always call them prairie rats. It is a very powerful term. I am trying to do Something Like this and say, there are two bureaucrats, you have heard of them. Just to see if i can repopulate that category, last year we had a woman who worked for the National Park service and she was never anything but enraged by my efforts. She felt that she was not a bureaucrat. That notowledge everybody is coming on board with this. I would say this represents an important and underrecognized aspect of what westerns expansion legacy. My wonderful comrade at the university of washington, he went through the senses of the western states and territories in 1878 and 1890. He defined categories pretty broadly. He had clerks, somebody working for the governmental agency, somebody working for the operation. , not just in government or business, but together. Cowboys he made very broad in ways that would be disturbing to some. Anybody who worked with livestock there are phrases s livestock so she grazed hers are in here as well. That did not go over with the cow was fan. He did that year after year after year. Look at that, only one senses. Just a few years before the cattle boom collapsed. Just when the cattle boom was at its peak in 1880, where there are slightly more cowboys than clerks. In 1870, there are more clerks and cowboys. In 1890, look who is coming out ahead. That is a striking thing there. Clerks are important in western history and im not sure i would want to give a prize for this but could someone named a Great Western film where the main character is a clerk . The man who shot liberty valance. There is a thought, there is a thought. Yes. Cowering. Ey are i could have played the clerk, here i am. This is what happened with all of these agencies. I did leave out one of them. In some way or another i think it is time find to tie them all to the progressive era. The Reclamation Service created in 1902. The dam building federal agency, which we will speak of later. The Forest Service. Well, terrain. We will call it that. Theest had been forest reserves were created as of 1891. The president gets the power to create forest reserves. That is the National Monument power originally, you could do it as the president. Congress did not like that. The Forest Service came into being because there were always designated areas that were forest reserves, they fell under the management of the General Land Office. The land distributing agencies. If youre in a position to get that out of the General Land Office. I would say he had some very strong feelings, as he might. They were evidencebased. Interiors had problems with corruption. I think we have already spoken of that. With indian offices, indian agents, the land office. That was like a great river of money going by appointed officials and dipping into that was very tempting. He had reasons to think it would be better to get the forest reserves out of the General Land Office and into out of the department of the interior and over to the department of agriculture. That is usually offered. That was because they thought of trees as a crop. I think that is small compared to the interior. Getting it into another agency where it is not pulled into the history of that. The was a National Park service , 1915 is the original enabling ad. There are parks that have preceded that. , being more conspicuous of National Parks before there is a National Park service. Fish and Wildlife Services is to chronological. Agencies different that exist, operate, merge and the power to designate refuges. It comes into to play with theater roosevelt. The it or Roosevelt Theodore roosevelt designated, but that was complicated timing. It comes into a more forceful era. Then the bureau of land management. Good luck getting the start date to that being because it goes back to the General Land Office. From the early 1800s, which passes that land and distributes land and then becomes kind of in in affected steward of the forest reserves. People have often noticed that frederick Jackson Turner tells us that i has ended. Homes that he continues. Always more claims, not necessarily successful ones after this. In the 1930s, the late arriving progressive era action creates the Grazing Service which regulates and allocates access to the grazing lands. The death toll is one good explanation for the lobbying toll. Vote for taylor grazing act to regulate. The Grazing Service and General Land Office merge in 1946. It does not look like progressive era timing but it goes back to that. Students love this. When you give them the history of federal agencies, they are just [laughter] there is a videogame waiting to happen. People children will just think it is so much fun. I think i get to be a bureaucrat today. They do have lives of adventure. The talk i get on the department of the interior, i call it hairraising tales from the department of the interior. Because they are hairraising tales. Especially people who are interior not just and Forest Service but you walk into an area where the locals have used the forest as they wanted to, and you are the federal agent who will say, actually, there is not anything here. That is hairraising. Sometimes they work in bureaucracies that look much more like bureaucracies. The land office places is just to work away at your desk. That is a bureaucrat. They come in all forms and some are out in the fields. After local control and the competing romances of local control and centralized authority and expertise, this is the second big idea to think about that i would like to put forward. This is the notion of thinking of the public land as a grand experiment in testing the compatibility of conservation and democracy. What i mean by that is that every day in the west is generating new findings on a planetary experiment of great consequence. My starting premise is that much of what we considered the practices of conservation among europeans and your americans started with very concentrated authority. It started with colonial governors going to far off out pose, taking naturalist scientists with them. The naturalist it to know if you of the species. The local people are endangering the wellbeing of these creatures. Could we keep the local people from cutting wood in this area . So that these creatures will not be reduced. There is that, there is colonial governors quite early on limiting the activities of the local Indigenous People on behalf of conservation goals. There are teens and aristocracy with their game preserves. With the Hunting Areas and with their part. Part. That is a very centralized authority of limitations on what the peasants and locals can do on that land. Conservation comes with some pretty bad political baggage. Colonial governors are very popular. Children want to grow up. My advisor, a wonderful story about that. He went to a party when he was in graduate school. It was a costume party. You had to come as what you really wanted to be in life. His date wanted to live in france and be french. So she came as the eiffel tower. He was unhappy because coming to the party she had to lie down in the backseat to get there. There were a lot of international students. My advisor grew up in alabama and he loved hot weather. He goes to this party and he is to look like wants somebody from the tropics because he loves hot weather. He comes to this party and looks like he was to be a white imperialist. We would rather talk to the eiffel tower rather than the white imperialist. He had a funny story about that. He did not want to be a white in perilous, but some people have gone to costume parties as them, i guess. Topdown authority and the origins of the practice since practices of your american conservations. Who did he learn his techniques from . Teacher. I thought a technician would want to answer that. The teachernows who was. Somebody with earphones. That is pretty fun. Maybe he is getting it said to him in the air phones. I should not call attention to the obstruction here. Going to wait a little bit before we tell you who his mentor is. Experiment. When the progressive era hit, it takes that experiment and gives those public lands the incredibly Important Role of the laboratory where this experiment proceeds to see if you can get democracy into compatibility with conservation practices. What happens in a Representative Democracy democratic government, when you also sometimes need centralized authority as you had it with the colonial governors. And with the aristocrats and the kinks. The important thing to say before we leave we will never say either word with clarity from now on. One of the most important aspect of this thing i brought to your attention about the control exercise by people of power in europe over the estates. That draws attention to the importance of gamekeepers who regulate the poachers and so on. And that you will notice it encourages you to read later Lady Chatterleys lover. The main character there is a gamekeeper. You may be quite a stimulating book but you are reading it because he gives you such insights into the history of conservation. I will work on that. Here is a cartoon, of which there were many that makes this point. He made a lot of people mad and resentful, and this happened to him. He would be portrayed in a way that echoes what i am saying, he has that cultural baggage to carry. You dont even know who his mentor was. You will see and hear more about that soon. There is this guy who really tries to make the bureaucrat an interesting figure. The territorial governor. He is not so easy to make interesting, but i guess he tried. I dont know of Popular Culture helps with that. The first complicated heritage is all these bureaucrats of consequence. Second one, the complicated heritage. Progressives are all about science. They have strong and warm emotion for science. If we can have that paradox of strong feelings for that. I will use the word faith, that science is the bedrock of a positive belief. It is hard to call a thought or understanding that really does come into faith. That will send scientist out on field explorations and they will. Rasp and chart and note we are that to Thomas Jeffersons of sections to Meriwether Lewis is a much broader social program. Not a hopee but a faith and belief that they will be very smart and be the ones who provide centralized authority with guidance