Transcripts For CSPAN3 House Ways Means Tax Reform Markup 20171106

Understand why were upset. You cant understand when department of Revenue Services in the state of connecticut where not 6 , but 41 of the people, 41 make those deductions, so what youve asked the state of connecticut to do is what mr. Zelden your colleague described of new york and the same thing is happening in massachusetts and new jersey and in maryland and in california and oregon and washington state, coincidence dental but having said that what youre doing to them is asking this regional shift of money, youre asking them to pay more. Its double taxation and and youre taxing the success of professionals because theyve been successful in what theyve done, and youre doing it without a single expert or public hearing. Thats what were mad about. We started out what we thought was on the same page, with everybody saying that question, we certainly would like to see lower individual rates and lower Corporate Tax rates. And yes, we thought that it would be a good idea also that if they were both revenue neutral as they were in 86 and as mr. Neil has pointed out that they be distributionly neutral as well. We also thought it was a great idea to simplify the tax code but this neither simplifies it, nor is it revenue neutral, nor distributionly neutral. Id like to submit for the record, the gentleman from connecticut, mr. Peter gross who talks about the impact on just an Engineering Firm and what it does because theres always winners and losers and when theres no expert testimony, and when you just jam this down because you want to political win, not a win for the American People, but a win for the republican conference, congratulations, youll probably get that win for your conference but at the expense of many, Many American people. And its so disturbing to us on this side that not only and i quote mr. Brady here, when he was on morning joe, talking about when questionried about h this will possibly make up this money, you said, well, youre right about that. You make a good point. Were not going to see this growth. This is just phase one. The next phase is were going to make these cuts. What are those cuts . Those cuts come in the way of chain cpi. And what are they aimed at, theyre aimed at Social Security and medicare. So for all of you out there, you understand why theres no expert testimony because you know what that will do to you. Theyre out to cut not entitlements because Social Security isnt an entitlement, its the insurance that all of you have paid for, so is medicare, the fica, the federal insurance contribution act. Whose contribution . Yours. What are they out to cut . Your benefits. I yield back. Mr. Renee, strike the last word. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Wow, im sitting here thinking if the American People are watching this today, theyre wondering whats going on here because you know who the real losers are is the American People because were taking their money and were using it improperly and this bill actually starts to fix it and give it back to them. So when you shake your heads, yes, you had to let me finish the sentence. Thats the problem. The American People are sitting there saying, im working every day and i dont have enough money to pay my bills and i end up paying these taxes and they go to washington, and, by the way, you know who put those books together, not some lawyer. You guys did the ways and Means Committee did. If you were here back when these laws were being passed. Everybody on this committee as laws are being passed and tax laws are being passed you built this section of law and were trying to fix this section of laws by bringing it down to a simpler tax system. Dont blame somebody for putting those books together. Blame the committee for putting those books together. Yes, the committee. Thats who put all those laws together. But lets talk about what we keep you guys keep talking about stuff and i really dont get it. These are itemized deductions. The casualty loss. Thats an itemized deduction. Do you realize how that works . Somebody has a loss, if they have insurance, it pays for as much as of the loss as it can and whats leftover, theres a an amount 1 of adjusted gross income and then it becomes itemized. These arent actual losses. Mr. Bart hold, youve already said when weve doubled the standard deduction, i realize there are some districts, like connecticut has a unique situation, but on average how many people when you double the standard deduction will itemize . Mr. Renee said, it was the combination of doubled standard deduction and the itemized deductions that are still permitted under hr 1 and that was 6 . So well have 6 of the people and you also said the majority of those people are primarily the wealthier people. Top half of the income distribution. So again, this bill is once we do what this bill does, we are effecting people who are not able to itemize before, were not able to get the opportunity, not able to get this credit and now theyll get an opportunity to save taxes and that includes state and local income taxes, casualty losses, interest on home mortgages, that includes all this stuff, so if were going to keep talking about this, can we at least can we at least make sure were talking about its 6 except for some unique situations. Its 6 of the American People who are probably the more wealthier americans. Thats the key here. It is frustrating. And again, people back home have to be looking at this and saying, can i get a break . Im barely making ends meet. Can i get a little break here . Im paying too much tax. Its being wasted in washington. It is clearly being wasted. And how do i get how do i get some help and thats what this bill does. We can keep talking about all the wealthy people that you guys want to talk about who are going to itemize, thats 6 . In the end i think what we need to Start Talking about is that hard working american taxpayer and making sure that they are getting a little bit more take home pay so they can make ends meet and save a little bit of money. And i too, i think my friend mr. Pass cell said, he represents i represent firefighters, i represent Police Officers, i represent all those same people. I represent all those same people who will get a tax break and want the tax break and i think thats important. 94 of these people, 94 will not be itemizing on the average and we got to start thinking about those firefighters, those Police Officers who now will have an opportunity to bring some more tax money home. I thank you and i yield back. Thank you. Youre recognized to strike the last word. Its fun watching the opening bid of a process. My friends have been backing away from their proposal as soon as they first floated the framework and now that were finding other things, we wont know probably till it hits the floor but as a practical matter, what is clear is that they are focusing benefits on those who need it the least in this country. Very large corporations, very wealthy individuals, Hedge Fund Managers and athletes and professionals that are going to pretend to be Small Businesses and be able to exploit a new loophole. What is clear is that they have our friends in the republican side have established a up to a trillion and a half extra debt that well be taking on. In fact, its higher than that because as several of my colleagues have pointed out, you pay interest on that debt. So the 1. 4, 1. 5 is going to be over 2 trillion. If theres 1 increase in the historically low Interest Rates that we are facing, thats going to add another trillion and a half. I remember many of my friends on the committee used to be upset about deficits and were wiring in a very significant debt load. Now, there is an additional fact that concerns me is that if you really wanted to help low and moderate and middle income people, we couldve worked together to be able to fashion things that would do that. We have republicans in the senate who are willing to expand the earned income tax credit and make it refundable, to deal with the 35 of the people youre proposal leaves out all together, the poorest americans and we can further reward work. This was a proposal that came in the reagan administration. Its not partisan. If you wanted to work with us in the grand tradition of this committee and im wearing my ways and Means Committee bow tie that i created thanks, chairman brady, took a lot of time and energy but i found a way to cut it down and turn it into a bow tie, we couldve done that. Theres some interesting proposals here dealing with what happens to the mortgage Interest Deduction. You acknowledge that the benefit is focused on some people who need it the least. We could have crafted something that would be acceptable to the Home Builders and to the realtors and help americans who are struggling to deal with housing. Its not the most wealthy but you chose not to do that. Youre breaking a commitment with the Wind Energy Industry that a number of us Work Together on a bipartisan basis to have a five year phaseout and, by the way, there are more jobs in wind energy than in coal and petroleum, good family wage jobs made in america industry and the industry stepped forward with some 50 billion because congress, this committee included, worked out a compromise. And i think its the only provision that youve included that is retroactive. Why couldnt we have had a hearing to find out what thats going to do to the wind energy in texas . In the upper midwest . But no, youre going to pull the plug on it. Mr. Kelly and i have been working on private activity bonds. Pretty easy way to invest in infrastructure, gone. Did we have a hearing on why they should be sacrificed so you can concentrate benefit for those who need it the least . I dont recall anything like that. And it goes on and on. A number of you are from states that have stepped up and raised the gas tax. In south carolina, it was passed over the governors veto, over half the states. If youd had a couple of weeks hearing, we could put together a Broad Coalition of people who are going to come in and invest in american jobs, rebuild and renew america, raise my taxes the Trucking Industry will say. Engineers, contractors, unions. We couldve done this and bring people together rather than divide them and add to the deficit. But we havent had those hearings. Instead, we come in, we get something dropped on us that will continue to change until its oent floor of the house and its going to be changed again in the senate because a number of these things are absolutely nonstarters and sadly it didnt have to be this way if we remember the traditions of this committee and what happened with the last time this happened on a bipartisan basis with president reagan. I find it unfortunate. Thank you. Ms. Will lar ski, youre recognized to strike the last word. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I for one am excited to be here today. I waited 11 months that ive been on this committee to be here today to deliver tax cuts to a simpler and fairer tax code to American Families. We all know that the tax codes broken. The American People know it. Theyre reminded every day they look at their paychecks. Im excited that were taking action to actually help hard working families, farmers, manufacturers and workers in indianas secretary district. This day has been years in the making. Scores of hearing and bipartisan working groups have led us here for families, were delivering tax cuts and tax codes so simple you can file it on a postcard. Were enhancing the child tax credit, encouraging them to save for retirement, streamlining 15 different educational tax incentives so a family doesnt have to dig through 90 pages of irs legalese to figure out what works and what doesnt. Were doubling the standard deduction to simplify the tax code to allow hard working hooziers to keep more of their money. So for the vast majority of people in my district, they can keep the standard deduction and they can keep even more of their own money. Many of the remaining 20 who itemize will now be able to save time, money and stress by taking the standard deduction instead. Ive been traveling, my district, for 11 months with this postcard and while none of my constituents are excited about filing their taxes, theyre excited for a simpler, quicker process that makes it more painfree. Hr 1 also helps the manufacturers and farmers in my districts. These vital Small Businesses get a lower rate of 25 , Family Businesses passed down for generations wont have to worry about the estate tax. Were repealing it. Finally, this bill makes america a far more competitive country against our foreign competitors. This tax code discourages companies from actually bringing back money to invest here. It diskurjz company from locating facilities here. No more. Hr 1 lowers the corporate rate for among the highest in the world making it more attractive for companies to make new investments here or to kbroe the ones they already have. It ends the lockout effect. The incentivize u. S. Companies to keep profits abroad rather than bring them back here to reinvest or raise wages. Mr. Chairman, there is a lot to like in this bill. I know we have a long week ahead but im excited to work with you and my colleagues here today as we deliver tax reform that allows all ships to rise. Actual and i yield back. Thank you, youre recognized to strike the last word. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I do strike the last word. Mr. Chairman, i think what youre hearing today in this discussion so far is a whole lot of release of pentup frustration about the process that brought us to this point. Its really unfortunate because it didnt have to be this way. I think there is great consensus here in congress and throughout the country that 31 years to take a serious run at the tax code is too long and we have to try. There was bipartisan agreement with the overlying concepts of trying to simplify, simplify, simplify the code to make it more competitive in light of what the rest of the world is done and make it more fairer for my working families back home in wisconsin, my Small Businesses, my family farmers. What we were hoping we wouldnt see say redo of more trickle down economics that have failed in the past, tax cuts at the top for the most wealthy and multinationals expecting that to lift everyone else out. Weve been down this road before. What really is troubling about this is that, in order to develop consensus this committees got to do the homework. Weve got to do the hard work and that is having proper hearings, having proper discussions across the aisle, proper vetting, listening to the people back home. Unfortunately, too many of my republican colleagues have chosen not even to have town hall listening sessions any more. When instead what we ought to be doing is running towards the criticism. Finding out what people are concerned about with this legislation and quite frankly, other things that congress is or isnt doing and run to that criticism to find out what were getting wrong and to learn from it and to adopt those principles into the underlying bill that we have before us. None of that work has taken place. We have been completely shut out from this process and it didnt have to be this way. I mean, our bipartisan muscles have atrophied to such a state that we are a pathetic shell of what this committee and what this congress should be looking like with the American People. Its all behind closed doors. Dark of night legislation, top down, directing everyone else to fall in line with their respective parties and instead the great loser in this is the American People who should be out front of us testifying, raising some alarms or telling us you may want to think about this or the unintended consequence about that, but we had none of that leading up to today and now were just flying in the dark, hoping that theres a safe landing zone out there. And weve been down this road before. 1981, reagan tax cuts, the trickle down, that was expecting to lift all boats. In fact, it didnt materialize. Theres very little Economic Data that shows that under your plan youll get the type of growth that we need. But whats different this time and ive asked the staff to put up the chart to help me illustrate this point. Is that from 81 to 2001 to 2003 where we are today, weve run out of time. We dont have the luxury of making a huge fiscal mistake and having time enough to recover before we have 70 million baby boomers who are beginning to start their Massive Retirement, 10,000 a day entering Social Security and medicare. We make that fiscal mistake today and theres no time to recover. 81 our debt to gdp ratio was 31 with the reagan tax cut. That was followed, by the way, with nine subsequent tax increases under president reagan because of the exploding budge jed deficits and the 01 bush tax cuts, and then followed with the 2003 tax cuts to 57. 5 , debt to gdp, were at 103 , mr. Chairman. The clock is run out on us and we cant take this gamble. A massing a bill expecting for some mythical Economic Growth thats going to somehow bail us out from the 1. 5 trillion of unfunded tax cuts that was in your own budget resolution, none of it paid for, you add the interest on that debt, you add the expiring tax provisions that are gimmicks in this tax proposal because we know future congresses are going to be hard pressed not to extend those out and youre talking 2. 3, 2. 4 trillion of Additional Debt over the next ten years, just when the demographic time bomb is going off in this country, with no chance to recover. And what will be in jeopardy will be the longterm solvency and security of Social Security medicare. That will be next. Under your own budget resolution you called for 1. 5 trillion worth of cuts to Medicare Medicaid over the next ten years. We know where you guys are going with this if we have exploding budget deficits facing us and thats unfortunate. If history is any guide, is that where there may have been some time to recover from fiscal mistakes in the past weve run out of time. Not with the demographic explosion, Massive Retirement thats taking place today. I just ask my colleagues to consider that as we move forward. I yield back. Youre recognized. Mr. Chairman, you stated that the 6 of itemizes went up half upper income. The middle income quinn tile to 72,001 the average is 56,832. Do you think people with income over 56,832 are wealthy . That is the middle income barth taxpayers for whom the mortgage Interest Deduction and the charitable deduction are Still Available likely will make around 56,000. You better get our numbers straight here. Taxes would rise for many in the working class, fall for the richest americans under the House Republican tax plan. The analysis just came out at 335 this afternoon, 28 of americans would see a tax increase by 2027. I heard from a constituent today, mr. Bart hoholbarthold, district, his name is david. He lives in for the lee, new jersey, governor christy fan. David is a 50yearold Building Trades Union Workers was injured in a car accident in 2008. Youre going to get a lot of anecdotal stories. Well give to you what we gave to you in the aca. You cant overcome those stories. As a result of his injuries, he can no longer work but collects his pension and disability. His wife works for the post office. They have no children at home but share their home with his elderly parents. They currently rely on the medical expense deduction for his medical costs that can be upwards of 12,000 per year and they pay more than 15,000 in property taxes. With the deduction for state and local taxes including the full property Tax Deduction, they are able to just break even each year. If this bill passes, david and his family will lose the ability to deduct his high medical expenses. All of his state and local income and sales tax and a portion of his property taxes and in the state of pennsylvania, you can tax the local governments. You have local tax, income tax. That adds up to more than 15,000 he can no longer deduct. He told me if this bill passes, he will have to move out of his home in fort lee apart from his wife until she can retire. Look, youre tearing families apart. Ive got a lot of these stories. Youre going to listen to them somehow some way over the next four days. Driving people from their homes. So much for middle class tax relief. Why should these hard working families who have paid their dues have to make that choice . David told me, what kind of middle class tax break did they just give me . This is garbage. If they pass this, it will bury me. Not only will this bill raise taxes on a family like david, it will hurt home values. Im tired about the high taxes of new jersey. We have to pay we have a densely populated state. Every state has a different culture. Every state has a different situation, like were just throwing money out just tax the people and throw it into the hudson river. That isnt what we do in the state of new jersey. Were far from perfect. You better take a look at your own treasury. On top of the higher tax bill, lower home prices could cause a recession in the new york and new jersey region. We will remember what happened in 2008 when home prices fell, go back to your history. You not only know dont know culture, you dont know history. We cant afford to go through this again especially because of selfinflicted wounds. The tax code is right with loopholes. What have we done . Heres a perfect record. Were sending all kinds of money offshore. How much . Which corporation has 250 billion sitting off shore, which has 93 billion sitting off shore . You are not helping. You tell me one place in this bill where youre going to catch up to those people and bring it back here, all your foo foo talk is unbelievable. Please read what you wrote. I know tez hard to keep up because youre changing it every day. If youre changing it every day, fine, but at least read what the heck you change so you stop eating foo foo. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Smith. Youre recognized to strike the lastbarthold, i do have a question. Previously a few minutes ago there was a rather vigorous criticism of the bill that the bill would be passed so late in the year in general do the changes in the bill apply to 2017 or would they apply to 2018 . The effective date, mr. Smith, for almost all the operati provisions is beginning after 2017, so in effect 2018. A notable place for that is not the case, is the Capital Investment provisions, those would be effective on the date of actually november 27nd, right . They have essentially effective dates as of several days ago and in a couple cases a couple of weeks ago, with the purpose being not to shut down investment activity while the Congress Deliberates so that taxpayers could proceed with perhaps making an investment with the knowledge that they would be maybe better off and no worse off if there were a change not to delay. But would it be your analysis that the broader based portions of the bill would not take effect until tax year those changes are generally 2018 and beyond. So if the average taxpayer were planning for how they might make purchases or other investments, they wouldnt be caught unawares or anything because they would have the opportunity to put forth their spending accordingly . Yes. Most everything is is perspective and the legislation also directs that with holding tables be revised to reflect the new standard deduction, new tax bracket rates so that so that essentially thered be help for wage earners in terms of whats withheld in meeting their income tax liabilities. Thank you. And certainly, i appreciate the analysis here and i appreciate the fact that we have the opportunity to Exchange Ideas here. I hope that we can truly focus on the real numbers that are out there. Ive heard various characterizations of a 250 Tax Deduction, not even a credit but a deduction as somehow being better than actual true reduction in Tax Liability far exceeding what that deduction might offer . So i hope that we can keep the exchange of ideas going here and stick to the numbers that we know are there and hopefully end up with much better policy than we have today because we owe the American People much better policy than the broken tax code that is currently in place. Thank you. I yield back. Mr. Cowly youre recognized to strike the last word. Strike the last word. This is not a tax reform bill. This is a tax sham that in my opinion will lead to higher tax bill for hard working people in my district. Itll cost families across our nation, the special interest bill raises tax on American Families to benefit corporate special interests. This bill slashes the mortgage Interest Deduction forcing middle class families to pay more for a home. This bill also creates a new tax on homeowners when they sell their home. This Ryan Mcconnell bill eliminates the widely used every american homeowner will experience the probably of paying taxes on their taxes. In my district 81,993 households claim the deduction for state and local taxes paid and the average deduction is 9,698 in my district. But this isnt just an issue for new york state but for many states. Republicans call them blue states. Theyre illinois, california and new jersey. My good friend from new york was defending his vote on the budget resolution, seven of his colleagues from new york state voted against it. I guess they all got it wrong. Mr. King, mr. Fasso, mr. Donovan all voted no. All republicans voted no on that resolution because of the provision dealing the eliminate of the deductibility of state and local taxes. They all got it wrong. The cruel irony is while we are stripping away a valuable tax break for the middle class, those same corporations will still be allowed to keep their deduction for their state and their local tax bill. They get to keep the deduction but the poor slob middle class guile and gal, they dont get to keep theirs. If Home Ownership is the American Dream this Ryan Mcconnell tax bill is the american nightmare. Dont take my word for it. Ask your local real estate agent. The National Association of realtors predicts people with incomes between 50 and 200,000 would see a tax increase on an average of 815 as well as a drop of up to 10 in their home values if this bill becomes law. But its not just homeowners who are hurt, renters get crushed too. This bill eliminates a number of important incentives to develop Affordable Housing stock. While rents continue to grow faster than wages, this bill will lead to the loss of more than 17,000 new Affordable Housing units in new york city alone, each year and many more nationwide. Support for this bill is a sign that you think there is not enough Affordable Housing or theres not an Affordable Housing crisis in our country but in addition to raising taxes on people who want shelter, this bill raised the tax bill on millions of other middle class americans too. Families with more than one child under 18 will see their taxes increase. Students will no longer be able to deduct student loan interest. This provision will cost americans almost 48 billion and effect millions of young people including almost 22,000 of my constituents in queens and the bronx. Teachers are taxed to the elimination of small deduction they get to provide School Supplies to their students. Seriously . They are cutting a tax break for teachers. Seniors will see new tax. It wasnt just the trumpcare bill. Or need to go tie nursing home. Almost 10,000 of my constituents will feel this in queens and the bronx. Now the republicans keep saying that only one in three americans itemize so eliminating these middle class provisions wont effect that many people. Heres a good one. But i ask why are they so hell bent in eliminating the tax on estates when that tax only hits two out of every 1,000 americans . This Ryan Mcconnell special interest tax bill allows for the offshoring of jobs while not creating jobs in the United States. The bill rewards companies who offshore by providing them a lower tax rate of 10 to create jobs overseas while theyre competing on their own 20 tax here stateside for the creation of those jobs. Where do we think the jobs are going to go . Theyll continue to go offshore because its only 10 overseas, 20 here and on and on and on. I dont have enough time to say all the sham thats in this bill but trust me the gentlemans time is expired. Youre recognized to strike the last word. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Id like to strike the last word. Yes, sir. Thank you, chairman brady. Today is a historic one as we consider comprehensive tax reform. For years members of this committee and members of congress have made the case as to why american needs a fairer tax code that will help with Economic Growth, thatll help revitalize our economy and most importantly create jobs and put more money in peoples pockets. Ohio families cant afford the current status quo. We need relief in tax cuts and as we consider the tax cuts and jobs act lets continue to keep them in mind as we have this debate. When i first came on to this committee, i told you all a story. That story was about my dad. My dad who likes Bill Pascrell, ill get back to that later, told me had i took my first job at mcdonalds when i was 16, we have a crazy tax code. You get taxed when you earn it, you get taxed when you save it and you get taxed when you die if you have enough saved. So now i know you all know that ill be leaving this great body sometime in january and it wasnt an easy decision in large part because of the work that we do on this committee and the members who do it. When i was selected to serve on this committee over ten years ago, it was a great honor and ever since ive been fighting for the priorities of the people of my district, ohios 12th district and from this dais that has been a great remarkable and yet humbling honor. Its here where we all, democrats and republicans, have the enormous responsibility to get things done for the people that we serve, Kitchen Table issues, issues like the tax code, like health care, Social Security, welfare. Issues that americans go to bed at night thinking about when theyre waking up in the morning. From advancing progrowth reforms to strengthening medicare for america seniors to supporting free and fair trade agreements im proud of the work that ive done to help the lives of everyday americans. To my colleagues, thank you. Ive enjoyed working with the smartest members of congress on both sides of the aisle and staffs on both sides of the aisle who are the best and the brightest. Ive also been fortunate enough over the years to build friendships on the other side of the aisle, i wont mention any of you because i dont want to get you in trouble, except for Bill Pascrell who can kick the crap out of anybody. Im going to mention bill because he and i have become really great friends. We dont have the same philosophies but i know he has my back and i have his. Im grateful for the service of all of us working together to find Common Ground and we have done that outside of todays debate on many issues even though theyre not always covered in the media and theyre not the biggest issues of the day but they are important to the men and women that we serve. When i first learned was becoming a ways and means member i couldnt have asked for a better assignment. Of course, our work isnt done yet. I look forward to our continued discussion on this issue but there are other issues that we have to deal with that are very important in the month or two ahead. I look forward to working with you and its been an honor working with you. God bless you. [ applause ] mr. Tee bury, let me just say our committee is a better place and our congress is a better place and the constituents of ohio are better served because you serve in this seat. Mr. Neil. I think its safe to say that on our side that pat tee berrys been a really good friend on a personal and professional basis and your description of the ways and Means Committee is perfect. Because thats what many of us felt as we came to this committee. It is still the prime seat that one earns in congress for deliberation. You just have to hear the Witnesses Today or any other time, the members, the debate that goes back and forth. On a personal note, you embody that same immigrant experience that many of us have felt for families that are only one or two generations off the boat. So congratulations in your next endeavor. Mr. Chairman . Mr. Levin. Let me just add a word, youve soldiered on as we know when there were many Family Matters that you had to attend to and all of us have tried to wish you as well as we could, and i think you and i had just a brief period working directly together but i think all of us have the greatest respect for you and your determination to carry on even when there were family challenges, so we will miss you. And, by the way, well mishearing about your blue collar roots. Mr. Chairman . Mr. Louis, youre recognized. Mr. Chairman, chairman, tiberi, i want to thank you for your friendship, thank you for your years of service. I had an opportunity to meet your lovely children on the floor. Theyre wonderful. Theyre beautiful. Theyre really in your image and long before i ever dreamed of being a chairman, you always called me mr. Chairman and i called you mr. Chairman, and maybe we can get together and do something together, so thank you. Well have plenty more time mr. Chairman for us to express our love and admiration for you and again, as i said as mr. Pascrell was hugging you, and hell have to deny that some day, our committee is just so much better off because of you. Our Congress Certainly is and certainly the constituents of ohio are blessed like no other, so thank you, friend. Dr. Davis, if you wish, youre recognized to strike the last word. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Its always difficult to say goodbye especially when youre doing something that you like to do. Mr. Chairman, this bill we are discussing and debating takes hundreds of billions of dollars away from hard working struggling families to line the pockets of corporate special interest and the most wealthy in our country. Real families will lose under this bill by exploding the deficit, this bill triggers cuts next year to medicare, medicaid, other safety net programs as well as makes College Costs increased, increase in student loan origination fees, making it difficult for those who have student debt to pay it off while corporate special interests can immediately write off all of their expenses and enjoy in perpetuity tax benefits for their next net operating losses while seniors will lose the ability to write off high medical costs, victims of this theft will lose the ability to claim casualty losses, teachers lose the ability to write off the hundreds of dollars spent to help students learn, students lose the ability to write off the interest on their Student Loans, adopted families lose help with the high cost of adoption, new homeowners living in high cost areas will lose vital assistance and charities will lose key benefits that encourage taxpayers to give. While corporations can deduct their state and local taxes, this bill doubles taxes for more than 40 million middle class households at a time when baby boomers are retiring and needing the most support, the Mcconnell Ryan bill slashes tax benefits to cover increased medical costs and the expenses of the elderly and disabled. Government should help people, not harm them. Government should strengthen the economic wellbeing of the middle class whose wages have stagnated, not the most secure special interest and wealthy types in our country. The Tax Policy Center estimates that the current plan will save the bottom 80 between 50 and 450 in taxes per year, but it bestoez the top 1 an average of 129,000 a year and it gives almost half of the individual tax cuts to households earning more than 500,000 and over onethird of the households earning over 1 million. Corporate special interests reap 70 of the total tax cuts, the Median Income in my district is 54,000, not 500,000. So people in illinois and other places throughout the country will lose. The republican priorities in this bill are shameful. Spending trillions for corporate interests when we should have been creating jobs by repairing our infrastructure and failing roads. We should be investing in rural and urban areas to expand businesses. We should be making sure that Business Developers can get incentives to reclaim communities and neighborhoods. No, i wish this bill was what its not. I wish it was better and as we work next and as we work the next three, four, ten days, hopefully well see some removal from changes so i dont have to characterize it as the robinhood in reverse. Taking from the poor to give to the rich. And i yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Ross, you are recognized for the last word. Its interesting to listen to the debate. Many people are saturated in tax policy and they listen to this, a lot of people who arent would be listening to this discussion between these two sides and say to themselves, they have to be describing different things. Theres no way that they can be describing the same thing. As ive been thinking about it, my mind has turned to my wife elizabeth, who is an oil painter. They tend to look at things holistically and in totality. Oil painters dont look at one little narrow thing and say, thats the whole painting, they step back and do a creation and you look at it in totality. If youre going to be looking at anything in particular in isolation, you could say, well, right, theres a group thats disadvantaged if that comes. What were proposing is not doing those things in isolation. What were doing is saying, look, nobody likes what we have now. Nobodys defending the status quo. What were proposing is do step back and say, if you could create a tax code for the entirety of someones life, why dont you do that, rather than creating a tax code for different episodes in someones life. Mr. Smiths observation is a 250 Tax Deduction for something. Is that better than a credit thats much bigger and much more robust and much more inclusive . Obviously, the credit is better. And one of two things cant be true. It cannot be that mr. Bartold is right, when he says everyones taxes go down, and that is unabashed declaretive statement, based on the jct modelling, and then it cannot also be true that this is a raw deal for the middle class what im encouraging us to do is be real in this discussion and lets look at these things in totality. Lets resist the temptation to over sell and resist the temptation to over characterize. The inflictiexion is for this committee to drive the debate toward a transitional moment. I would urge us time and time and time again when we discuss amendmentses in the coming days, in the context of a larger portrait, so to speak. I yield back. Mr. Chairman. Id like to ask unanimous consent to have some letters from a couple of the cities that i represent, and a couple three of the counties that i remember who are the epicenter of the fires in california. Read into the record asking that we fix the problem that you created in the bill regarding the casualty loss. Just to be sure, since the Property Casualty losses will only cover fire losses that can be itemized, i envision a Disaster Relief plan, a tax relief plan from this committee that allows people who have lost their homes to not have to itemize so all of them get help. Are they supporting my approach that allows everyone in those wildfires to get help or yours or those that just itemized. It sounds to me like your approach is not dissimilar to your amendment that were going to see today. Something that none of us have seen. Were going to get its going to get dropped in the last minute and were not going to have a chance to see it. Thats part of the reason why youve heard from our side of the aisle this request is four letters related to restoring the property tax or Property Casualty losses for those who itemize and not to provide additional help for Disaster Relief . These letters are asking that we not be expunged from the law. Do they also support help for them immediately for those who dont itemize . Which is what i would encourage us to Work Together on in the wildfires. First time ive heard about it, has anybody else in the Committee Heard about that . Youve never seen a Disaster Relief plan . Not as it pertains to the fires just as we did for the hurricanes . My proposal is, we help families in the wildfires as well. This the thompson skell amendment . No, sir, although those are three brilliant members. Im asking if you would like to provide relief for those that do and dont itemize. Ms. San k4ez, youre recognized. Thank you opinion i feel like we should reward companies that keep high wage and high skilled jobs right here in the United States. The last thing we want is for these kinds of jobs to be swept out of the u. S. By companies who are trying to game the federal tax system. The plan were marking up today does nothing to close the tax loopholes that big businesses have exploited to allow wall street billionaires to pay less than their fair share of taxes. Im concerned the republican plan would incentivize Big Companies and create a competitive disadvantage for Small Companies that cant move their production outside of the u. S. Im also concerned that it would encourage other countries to lower their corporate rate, thus creating a race to the bottom. All of this at the same time that benefits to middle class americans are being slashed. For example, the plan in front of us today, eliminates the state and local income Tax Deduction. Since 1913 this deduction has allowed middle class families avoid having their income tax doubled. Of the millions of california families taking these state and local income Tax Deductions, more than 82 were families earning less than 32,000 in Household Income who rely on the deductability for the affordability of their homes. Prioritizing tax breaks for millionaires and enabling the outsourcing of u. S. Jobs over helping the middle class and helping middle class americans is disgraceful. Our hardworking american fami families dont expect a handout, but they do expect us to stop shifting the burden on to their backs. They expect us to grow u. S. Jobs and opportunity. Without having to hope that a few of the crumbs will trickle down to them. American families deserve better than to be lied to. What this fiasco gives with one plan, it takes away with the other. They deserve a fair shot at getting ahead. They dont deserve to have the rug pulled out from under them. This bill is nothing but a lie, if you continue to purport that all the benefits go predominantly to the middle class. We have said on this side of the aisle time and time again is that really the people that benefit the most are the people that need the help the least. Theyre the people that the American Public wants to see pay their fair share. Americans are sick and tired of having to scramble to get by because the wealthier continue to get wealthier and they continue to get the bulk of the benefits from this republican bill and this republican congress. I urge my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, just be up front about it. Just tell the middle class, its like four people sitting down having lunch that agree to split the bill in four ways. Were going to allow multinational corporations to only pay 5 . Where does that other 20 get taken out . Out of the hides of Small Businesses and middle class families. Enough of this farce that were going to grow our economy out of the debt youre creating with this massive tax cut to the wealthiest of the wealthy. Theres no evidence, and in fact, economic study shows the trickle down effect never trickles down to the people who need the help the most. Lets just be honest, this is a giveaway. This is so you can run a victory lap and claim you got one legislative accomplishment done in a year. Lets freeze the democrats out. Were all elected to try to do whats right for the country. It would be really nice if i could see my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to take this proposal seriously, instead, you continue to persist in going it alone, and youre crafting policy that is bad for america. Please just be honest about that. I yield back the balance of my time. Mr. Higgins, you are recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The elimination of the state and local Tax Deduction is a massive take from Middle America, a major give to Corporate America. The deduction for state and local taxes was not a recently purchased loophole by a lobbyist. Since 1913 theres been a federal income tax and a state and local deduction for that entire time. And that was put in place to protect local folks from excessive federal taxation for the record, in new york this deduction is worth 9 of taxable income. So if you make 100,000 a year, you lose 9,000. If you make 50,000 a year, you lose 4,5 4,500. And all of this is being done to finance a cut in the corporate rate from 35 to 20 . First of all, nobody pays 35 . The effective Corporate Tax is about 18. 6 . And were told this is being done to allow Corporate America to boost the annual wages of people between 4,000 and 9,000 for the average household. That is absurd. If that was really your objective, why dont you bypass Corporate America and just give workers a 4,000 to 9,000 tax benefit every year. Because that will increase wages which will increase demand, which will increase Economic Growth beyond the anemic 2 weve experienced over the last decade, lets by pass Corporate America and give the break directly to american workers. American businesses today have 1. 9 trillion in cash sitting in u. S. Treasury bonds. If they wanted to give workers a raise. They have the cash to do it without this huge tax bill, which is a huge giveaway to Corporate America. And by the way. Out of 150 american corporations, american businesses. Who say they need a tax cut from 35 to 20 . 150 of them, pay between zero and 10 in Corporate Taxes every single year. And 50 of those american corporations including walmart, including wells fargo, that screw their customers, they have a negative Tax Liability. Meaning that they get a rebate every year, because of the loopholes that already exist. This is not tax reform, this is a tax scam thats intended to take money from Middle America and give it to Corporate America unjustifiabl unjustifiably. There is not a credible economist or economic think tank that believes this tax cut will increase growth beyond 2 10 of 1 a year. Tax cuts dont pay for themselves. They never have. Not in human history, not anywhere in the world. Not one utterance in this bill about financing infrastructure. Which based on any objective analysis we need to spend about 2 trillion, right . Well, the last budget proposes to spend 200 billion over the next 10 years we just spent almost 200 billion in the last 10 years, rebuilding the roads and bridges of afghanistan and iraq. Nations of 30 million respectively. And yet for a nation of over 300 Million People which could materially increase the Economic Growth and mutt people to work, these jobs cant be outsourced. Were spending 200 billion a year this who process is a scam that will not produce the explicit objectives by the sponsors of this bill. I yield back. Mr. Rice, youre recognized. Strike the last word. It does vex me that my friends on the other side of the aisle continue to say that this is a tax cut for the rich, or that were taking money from the middle class to give it to corporations, when in fact, the joint committee on taxation says sfw theres a tax cut for every quintile of american individuals. The Tax Foundation says it will save the average family of four 1100, 1200. And the average Small Business 3,000. The Washington Post for god sake, the Washington Post says that this will result in a tax cut in every income category for 93 1 2 of americans. But yet in the face of all this they say theres no credible evidence that will happen. Thats pretty fascinating to me. Guys, guess what, we tried it your way. You said you had the congress and the white house for two years, did you. You piled on the taxes and the regulations. Dodd frank and obama care. And guess what . For the last eight years. We did not have one year where we reached our average growth in gdp of 3 . Not one year. Donald trumps been president now for nine months, the last two quarters have been over 3 . The Tax Foundation says this plan will increase gdp by. 4 . Weve had economists testify in this room, ive heard estimates anywhere from. 3 to. 9 . If gdp goes up by 1 point, we add trillions of dollars of revenue, millions of jobs and we restore american opportunity. The last eight years of more taxes and more regulation have cost this country opportunity we have left a again ice of folks coming out of college behind because of your policies. Yuf is enough, we need to restore this land of opportunity. I am so proud of this bill. This stuff about this bill encourages companies to offshore. That is the exact opposite of what this bill is designed to do. It cuts the Corporate Tax rate to 35 . Which makes our companies not competitive, which forces them offshore. And it will bring american jobs back home. We need to focus on the facts here and the facts are, the American People have had enough of the more tax, more regulation, leftovers of the last administration we want to move on to a competitive economy, a competitive government. We want our children and our grandchildren to have the same opportunities that we had. We want to restore the nickname of america as the land of opportunity. And this bill does that, and im proud to be associated with it, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Miss sue well, youre recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. What a great opportunity we have here today to make real reform for real people it is clear to me we have our work cut out for us. The bill would take away their personal exemptions and leaving many with higher taxes. This bill negatively impacts businesses. Helps Large Businesses on the backs of Small Businesses by ensuring that the vast majority of pass throughs will see no benefit of tax reduction. This bill does nothing to address the skills gap that exists in our workforce. It is so important that we know the future of workers around the corner, and were doing nothing, and this bill does nothing to help that. This bill would negatively impact companies. The base broadening measures in this bill will dry up the capital and Business Activity in our local communities. 501 c 3 bonds make Capital Improvements at the municipal level possible. The new markets tax credit and the tuesday toric tax credit drive billions of dollars in private capital to individually stressed buildings. The current bill would do away with them, and that would severely impact their ability to encourage economic development. Mr. Chairman, i hope my colleagues view this markup as an opportunity to improve this bill and have the bipartisan input that the American People deserve. My republican colleagues should know there is plenty of room to craft a bipartisan bill if the will is there. The current tax code is outdated and has structural deficiencies. Our tax code is too complex. It doesnt do enough to support working families and does too much to exacerbate economic dispari disparity. It does not do enough to make sure our workers are prepared for future jobs. I was really excited to be on this committee, i wanted to be on this committee, because i wanted a seat at the table for the constituents of alabama that i represent. Our tax code is supposed to be reflective of our values, the tax code does pick writteners and losers. The winners in this bill are the top 1 of the wealthiest americans. Multinational corporations will benefit, the losers in this bill are working families, the middle class, homeowners, local municipalities and hardworking americans who strive to achieve the American Dream. These are the people that i value, and i know you do too. Mr. Chairman, i am sure you have heard the old adage, better to have a seat at the table than to be on the menu. Well, the people i represent are on the menu in this bill i cannot stand by and let it continue as long as i am on this committee. The hardworking folks i represent deserve nothing less than to have a seat at the table and to have their voices heard on tax reform. The way this bill was drafted under cover of night means that the table was reserved for republicans only. I dont believe that is what our Founding Fathers meant by this democracy. So mr. Chairman, as i am close ing i think of what Shirley Chisolm said, if they dont give you a seat at the table, bring a folding chairman. Mr. Chairman, this is my folding chair, and im here to bring a voice to the people i represent. Strike the last word, im sorry. Mr. Chairman, today is the day that we will rip out the broken tax code by its roots. This bill is about employees and businesses of all sizes, its about wages and paychecks, about getting to keep more of what you earn the Hardworking Taxpayers are being punished by the status quo. The code isnt built for average every day americans with this bill, we are cutting out lobbyist loopholes and handouts. Were taking those savings and investing it in the paychecks of hardworking missouriens. Folks are being penalized because they dont have an army of lobbyists and special interests up here advocating for them. Today the committee is considering a bill that would help taxpayers keep more of their money. The first 24,000 you earn is now tax free. You get to keep it, you get to determine whats best to spend. The tax cut and jobs act is going to help the family farm by eliminating the death tax. Its wrong to tax someone for literally dying. Folks spend their entire lives paying so many different taxes. Taxes should be triggered when a profit is made, not when a death occurs in a family. This will bill respects the family farm, not special interests. Families in my district have the Second Lowest yearly Median Income, i am for this bill, i know it will represent a tax cut and pay increase to those same hardworking families. In a Small Community of less than 1,000 people in missouri, a family of four will see their taxes cut by over 75 . Family by stillville or donovan or any other Community Across South Central and southeast missouri, deserve to keep more of their hard earned paychecks. This bill ensures they have more money in order to pay bills or save for the future. It is time to make the tax code clearer, simpler and fairer. Its time to close loopholes and end handouts. Its time to make our economy healthier and see more jobs created. Its time to give the hardworking americans more money in their paycheck. With that, mr. Chairman, lets get to work and i yield back. I believe mr. Rice brought up the Washington Post a moment ago. I would like to say theres an article up that says gop proposes to hike taxes for many in the middle class. I think we are having a very important discussion today. They decided to target the most vulnerable among us, when they were searching for ways to pay for their corporate giveaways. Adopted children, teachers victims of long term illnesses. Young people suffering under student debt. Now we know why republicans have hidden this from the public for so long. Its hard. Cooking up things in backrooms under the light of day instead of brings democrats into the conversation. Not as partisans, but as americans. Republicans have made the most cynical tradeoffs, only hurting people who need the help the most. This is wrong. Tax reform should be about coming together and making choices that reflect our consciences and our values. Not a single working mother working two jobs to put food on the table. Not a teacher, not a family caring for an aging parent has ever told me that what tax reform means to them is corporate cuts. They know those have never trickled down to them like republicans promised. Theres nothing left but fumes by the time the trickle reaches their doorstep. Those fumes dont help them pay for medical expenses, college tuition, housing or even the basic necessities that the people who wrote this plan clearly take for granted. My constituents have been reaching out to my office, terrified about what this bill is going to mean for them. I can tell you they know better than the idea that somehow a bigger standard deduction will be the answer to everything. The republican standard deduction is not an answer to a teacher buying School Supplies, paying for a mortgage and trying to put her kids through college while paying for her husbands expensive cancer treatments. Its not an answer to a young family just starting out and trying to buy their first home, while covering the exhosh tant cost of child care. If you have to pay 90,000 a year for Long Term Care for alzheimers, what good is 12,000 standard deduction. If youre working hard to pay a mortgage and Student Loans and make Financial Decisions expecting to deduct those interest payments. What good is a 12,000 standard deduction, when you can deduct more today. My friends on the other side of the aisle cant answer this question. They have not answered the cries of people in this country people who are just looking for a little fairness and relief. They bow to special interests and political expediency again. Reflecting the worst of the citizens of washington, d. C. , who sent us here to look out for them and support their best interests. Oliver Wendell Holmes jr. Said taxes are what we pay for a civilized society. The purpose of the tax code is not to award political friends and sticking it to blue state voter voters rather its to fund a functioning government and support a middle class environment where everyone can succeed. This bill undercuts the notion of a civilized authority. Built on a foundation of lies and mischaracterizations. Its fiscally irresponsible raising the deficit of trillions and putting it on the back of our children and grandchildren. A short term sugar rush at the cost of long term check stability. I will not accept this, and based on what im hearing, the American People will not accept it either. Thank you, and i yield back. Mr. Holding. I sat here today for 4 20. Ive taken two brakes and heard my honorable colleagues argue for the status quo over and over they tried to paint this bill as negative light to avoid the reality that this is a much needed tax break for the middle class. A family with 2 children making 59,000 per year will see their taxes cut by 1,182. I look at the data for my district in north carolina, the numbers tell a similar story, maybe a little better story. The average family of four will see their taxes decrease by 2,335. This is real money that belongs to the hardworking constituents in my district that the government will not be taking from them, and they will keep in their pockets to use as they see fit. This bill not only allows my constituents to keep more of their paycheck, it puts us on the path to sustained Economic Growth. By lower the corporate rate, we begin to level the competitive Playing Field and end the lockout thats discouraged u. S. Companies from reinvesting their foreign earnings in the United States our bill provides relief to u. S. Small businesses by getting them out from under the top personal rate and allows them to pay lower tax on their business income. This important provision that recognizes the importance of Small Businesses in america. For the first time our bill finally provides relief to Small Businesses and farmers in my district that have had to sell off parts of their farm or assets to pay a bill due because of the death of a family member. My honorable colleagues like to site the 1 when they talk about the estate tax, my constituents know this burdensome tax for what it is, its an assault on american businesses and American Farms and the hardworking americans in north carolinaens that would like to pass on to further generations the fruits without taxes they gained. Im proud to work on this bill with my colleagues im proud to support this bill. It will bring more than 29,000 jobs to the state of north carolina. Im proud i did not have to sit here and defend a broken tax code over and over and over again as my honorable colleagues on the other side of the aisle have been doing for 5 25 with that, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Mr. Chairman. We are supposed to be here to mark up a tax bill to benefit the middle class. But in reality, this is a bill whose main beneficiary are corporations. These are not just my words, the only priority that President Trump and republicans could agree on was that this bill must cut taxes on corporations. In fact, the middle class is largely an after thought. And even then most of the benefits intended for families are hypothetical, rooted in the already disproven theory of trickle down economics. Yes, under this bill, families will receive a credit of 300 but even that small credit will expire after five years tax cuts for corporations on the other hand are permanent lets look more at what the bill does. The largest tax cut goes to corporations. The largest corporations are getting their taxes slashed from 35 to 15 . The average tax rate is 18. 5 , thanks to many deductions and loopholes. Come tax time, corporations will be saving trillions, getting away with taxes that is far below what is specified here. Lets take a look at what individuals get. Its not trillions, thats for sure, they certainly dont get to keep their deductions the way corporations do. Its by ending the deductions used by families that republicans are able to pay for the tax cuts for corporations. Individuals, especially in states like mine, california. Have been able to deduct their state and local taxes for over 100 years. Its part of their calculous, in moving to a new neighborhood, buying a home or voting on state and local budgets. In california, taxpayers have been able to take an average deduction of 18,400, under this bill they will lose that deduction, republicans are ending that for individuals, forcing them to pay higher taxes or accept a lower standard of living. Its not that republicans question the value of that deduction since they keep it for corporations. Its just families that foot this bill. Another deduction that families lose so corporations can become wealthier, are the deductions for medical expenses. Now if youre sick, receiving care at home, have alzheimers, cancer or parkinsons disease or a child with a disability. All of that becomes unbearably expensive. Also getting more expensive . Your college degree. If you took a loan to earn a degree, used that degree to land a job, and then responsibly budgeted so you can make payments on that loan . Youre going to have to figure out how youre going to cover the cost of that lone. Republicans are turns to children in foster care as a means for paying for their tax cuts for the rich. Its like reaching into the couch cushions for loose change. This bill ends the adoption tax credit which was used to encourage adoption. Why are these children suffering . To give tax cuts to children like paris hilton, the estate tax. People who come here to work and contribute. Republicans are making it harder for them to have the same opportunities by requiring a Social Security number for the earned income tax credit. Not even Small Businesses get the help they need from the small tax bill. Republicans are using it as a pass through rate thats already what 90 of Small Businesses pay. When it was used in kansas, the well thiest individuals reclassified themselves as Small Businesses. Corporations keep many of the deductions. Corporations get permanent tax cuts, while families lose their credit after five years. This bill is about corporations first. Its not just the cost in dollars, its the cost in lives that are getting harder with opportunities denied and family s hurt. The genlt el lady yields back. Youre recognized to strike the last word. At this time we will begin with amendments, i have an amendment on the desk. The clerk will distribute the amendment. And we will suspend while the clerk distributes. Mr. Chairman . This is your amendment . Yes, sir. I suppose because we havent seen it or anything, dont know its contents i should reserve a point of order, though i assume its in order, and you wouldnt have offered it, i will reserve a point of order for now. Thank you, the point of order is reserved for now. The clerk will distribute the amendment. Mr. Chairman, could i ask you i just would like to ask you a question. What is the nature of the question . Were just reading this over. Has there been any discussion of this with any of us on the democratic side . No. The gentleman may seek recognition to speak on the amendment. I just okay. Youll have plenty of time to deable to debate this fully tonight. Im pleased to offer this amendment, the amendment makes modest refinements to the overall tax reform package usage that delivers tax relief to millions of families and win here at home and around the world. The amendment continues to the year 2022. The exclusion from income from employer provided dependent care assistance. This benefit when couples with the other tax relief provided in the bill will help families cover these important expenses. The amendment includes additi additional tools that will help protect the integrity of the earned income tax credit program, under the status quo, creates too much froth. With respect to the excise tax on net Investment Income of educational institutions. The amendment focuses its application with endowment assets of at least 250,000 per student. The amendment ensures that or changes in the bill do not disturb the characterization for tax purposes of income earned by songwriters when they sell their catalog of compositions. In addition to the substantial relief in the base bill. The first time our pass through businesses have received significant tax relief, the amendment includes a provision to ensure that employees of Startup Companies can also share in the success of the business theyre helping to build by better aligning the recognition of stock based compensation for tax purposes. The amendment includes a provision that imposes an additional Holding Period requirement of three years with respect to gains on a carried interest on investment or real estate business. The amendment better taylors the bills base erosion rules, to circumstances involving the potential for tax avoidance. It narrows the situation it mitigates potential double taxation without relinquishing u. S. Jurisdiction captured tax benefits from profit shifting. As the process moves forward. Well continue to work to ensure the International Tax rules operate to make america one of the best places in the world to hire, invest and do business. More broadly. Our work will continue at every stage in the process. Throughout the path of this bill throughout todays markup to the president s desk many i would like to take a moment to reflect on whats not in this amendment and why we are not including Health Measures there is support on our side of the aisle for full repeal of the job killing and other excise taxes that increase Health Care Costs for consumers that were included as part of obama care in order to pay for massive new entitlements. However, weve been working with them over the past month to find the path forward were working on common sense temporary and targeted relief for many of these taxes to be acted on in the house before the end of the year, that includes priorities such as relief from the medical device tax championed by eric paulson and rob kind. And the tax on over the counter medications championed by representatives lynn jenkin and ron kind. We will move to these Important Health policies separately and immediately after conclusion of our tax reform members. I will also note, this is not the last effort to continue to make further improvements on the base bill. As we work with organizations like nfib and others, and working to address unintended consequences of certain insurance provisions and working with the council and others in that regard. Mr. Chairman, i hope you would agree, and members on your side would agree that given the fact that we have now just seen this for the first time this only compounds the clarification issue as it relates to the committee. Is there a score on this particular amendment . No, as is tradition in the rules of the house and committee. Scores are not provided on individual amendments. I would hope that but the base bill is within 1. 5 trillion reconciliation the committee has been given. Mr. Chairman. I would hope wed have the opportunity to go through this or hear what others would say. After 5 1 2 hours of discussion about a previous piece of legislation. Just as the minority does not vet, we take these amendments as they are offered, fully debate them and vote on them at the conclusion. Mr. Chairman if we had had the opportunity last thursday and see it everything rated into the provision that was presented to us, perhaps we would have had a different discussion. You could see the russian in the audience. It was like a monsoon as people rushed over to seek the document. Here we are seeking the document for the first time. I would hope there would be ample opportunity to air this document in front of everybody. Does the gentleman wish to be heard on the amendment . I believe we would. Mr. Levin, youre recognized. Strike the last word on the amendment. This is disgraceful. Ive been on this committee now for 32 years, when i came here, there was an ability to work across the aisle on many things. That was true of the tax reform bill the year before i joined. Mr. Neil and i, and i dont know if anybody else participated one way or another in the discussion. This is the opposite of bipartisanship. When we present amendments its one by one, one by one. And it isnt a whole flock of changes to a bill. So we dont see these until the last minute. This has been just the word kind of process you brag about this as the first time in three decades, and youre going to bring now these amendments up . How are we going to have a discussion . Are we going to discuss each of them one by one . Are we . One by one . Each of these . Are we going to be able to ask questions as to each of these . Ive been working on carried interest for many years, and my colleagues have been working on other aspects, weve been working on base erosion issues for a long time, and to discuss these when mr. Camps bill was brought up. Base erosion is vital to discuss. Now you flow this at us, without any discussion with mr. Neil or anybody else . Are you people essentially authoritarians . Are you authoritarians and you throw this down to us . This is utter disgrace. Dont you have enough confidence in your own position to present these in advance to us and let mr. Bartold discuss each and every one of them separately . Is that what you youre smiling. You should stop smiling. This is more serious than that. Will the gentleman yield. Yes. Yes, so as chairman of this committee, you know the process of offering amendments, and you routinely on every bill offer amendments, not by giving it toous in advance or letting us look at it. Take back, nonsense. No, that is the process. Nonsense on the aca bill. You delivered a bill of i believe the time is mr. Levens, mr. Chairman. Will the gentleman yield . The aca process was different, you didnt like the bill. It truly was. We didnt throw these things at you, we had hearings, we had meetings. We considered this seriously, you didnt like what we were going to do, but we didnt just throw things at you at the very end. You had ideas of what was what was in the bill all along and now you throw this at us, and you need to introduce each one of these separately, and ask, so we can ask mr. Bartold questions about each of these. You make a mochrie out of this committee. A mochrie. And you know it. You make a mockery out of this committee. Why are you doing this . Why are you doing this . You dont even talk to mr. Neil as a Ranking Member and give this to limb a day in advance . What are you afraid of. Your determined to pass mr. Chairman i havent finished. You are determined to pass a bill because you havent done anything of importance all this year. You are desperately looking for something to pass. Pied piper. I dont know who the pied piper is, this is a disgrace to this committee. So let me ask you. Are you going to have each of these amendments taken up separately. Each of these amendments as by rules and custom will be offered and during your five minutes, you have the chance to question mr. Bartold. So each of these will be offered separately . No, this is the amendment by mr. Brady of texas. This is a separate amendment. With all of these pieces . Yes, with several provisions in them, just as you why not take them up separately . Well so we can ask mr. Bartold and each of us have time to discuss your time has expired. This is a total disgrace. I know this is it the moment where the outrage is supposed to occur in the process. No, it doesnt. I ask that your remarks be taken down. Oh, for heavens sake. No, im serious, i didnt question your i did not i think that would be. I ask that your words be repeated. Order mr. Chairman, i request that mr. Levins remarks be taken down. I will be glad to. Thank you. Lets do this. I ask that your words be taken down. Mr. Levin, did i may, so we can go into all of that if you want, or as you know, as the former chairman, and as has been occurring throughout this session as well, the minority often offers amendments without our being able to see in advance. One at a time. No, sir. Yes my point is, we will take up this amendment. We will have plenty of time to question mr. Bartold, we will go over this whole line, so we have an opportunity to delve into these issues, all of which are well known. And continue the process. Does anyone else wish to be recognized to strike the last word . Mr. Neil. Would you consider a recess to we might draft strategy as to how to respond . Mr. Neil, no, well follow the rules of the committee. Just as we dont ask for recesses when you offer amendments to us, some of them with multiple provisions, we will continue with this amendment. This procedure here is seismic in its ramifications. We need an opportunity to digest and revet what our response might be to the proposal thats in front of us. While i recognize that we would all like that extra time, thats not provided as the majority when you offer your amendments. We are expected to digest it, ask questions. Speak out on it, and ultimately vote on it. Were going to continue to treat both sides of the majority and minority equally, and by the rules of the committee goingforward. Some of these amendments i know you will not like. Just as we will be seeing your amendments later with no notice. And we will ask questions and we will speak out, but well do it equally, treating the majority and minority as the Committee Rules require, and out of fairness. Does anyone wish mr. Lewis. I move to strike the last word. The gentleman is recognized. And i yield my time. Thank you. It has become very clear that this hearing this markup is not about tax reform, its about a political life preserver. This whole procedure is totally out of order. We were presented with the final version of 525 pages of changes to complex tax law on friday, we are given an addition al 30 plu pages. 33 pages to be precise of changes to that amendment, we have no score or estimate of what these changes will cost. They are bundled together in a fashion that is not consistent with the operation of this committee. And it providers time to evaluate how those intersect with the provisions in the bill. One has to wonder if mr. Gary kohn as the lead person at the white house had a hand in the development of these provisions, since we had been meeting, additional disclosures have come out as part of the Paradise Papers about the hundreds of millions of dollars that are being handled in offshore accounts throughout the eye lands of the atlantic and the caribbean. That in some cases, there will be no tax charge on them at all. With the slightest change in these international rules, which are included here its not possible without some review and some review by people who may have more understanding and expertise of the tax rules than some of the members of the committee, have an opportunity to review and do some interest evaluation of those. It is clear that the majority does not feel they can pass their legislation by following the normal procedure. And that amendment is nothing more than a series of patches on the bill to try to secure some additional support. These International Base erosion rules may be nothing more than more erosion. What we need to do is to be able to evaluate those. And we are not even accommodated with a few minutes to discuss and review and look at the intersection between these 33 pages and the 425 pages that we were so recently presented. On the carried interest issue, for example, the chairmans position has been in the original bill, and this is one of the few parts of this bundle we can analyze, that having a Holding Period of a year is sufficient. And now apparently in this he has reformed that provision by extending it all the way to three years. The only problem with that is that most of the funds that im familiar with, and weve had some great ones out of austin, texas, extend for ten years or more. And so apparently this is nothing but a gloss to protect carried interest, to protect a loophole and a special provision that accords to some Hedge Fund Managers the opportunity to pay much less in the way of taxes than other people pay. This is the very loophole that President Trump as a candidate promised he would eliminate. And instead of eliminating it, they first had the facade of a oneyear Holding Period. Now they have expanded it with a little broader facade that will not change carried interest. Of course, if we had a score and an analysis, even by the joint Tax Committee of this amendment, we could determine whether or not it represented any genuine change. There are a host of other provisions in this measure that are worthy of further consideration. But it is perhaps the oh motion than the comission. We firheard for the first time few minutes ago that something might be done about disaster release. I dont see that, mr. Thompson, anywhere in these 33 pages. I must say i shared your concern about why it was we were providing relief one week and taking it away a few weeks later. And you were told that dont worry, there will be some help coming down the road. Well, its not in these pages. I dont know what other votes they think they may need to secure on the floor to add something about that later, but gentlemans time is expired. Do you wish to be recognized. I do. And so whether it is Disaster Relief or any other number of provisions that are in this bill or not in this bill, you consider that this amendment, for example, does nothing about the adoption tax credit. The provisions in the original 425 pages had the effect of taking away over the course of the bill a little more than 2 billion from the teachers of america. Teachers who are in schools that have been hardpressed by reduced budgets and who bring their own supplies to the classroom and are currently entitled to deduct up to 500. The response to that provision in our law is to say to all those teachers, and there are thousands of them that take that 500 deduction and probably contribute much more than 500 to enrich their classrooms, that thats no longer available. That there is no commitment to supporting our teachers across america in enriching their classrooms. I remember long ago when my wife was a first grade teacher, it seemed that every new school year we had another pick up truckload of materials to take back to the classroom. And as i talked to teachers in texas, i find very much the same experience. Whats wrong with giving those teachers a 500 when many of them are spending far more than that for their classroom . I heard our colleagues talk about the fact that, you know, what theyre going to do, theyre going to give the money back to the people. Let them keep it. And they can make a choice with what they want to do with their money. Well, you know, i think these people in california who had their homes burnt down, their choice, i suppose, that theyre being allowed is they can either use it to rebuild their home or they can abandon their home. Thats the choice that the fire imposed. The student who has a significant amount of student debt who will now be denied the right to deduct the interest on that student debt, that student does have much of a choice. The banks not giving them a choice to not pay for the interest on the debt. The question is whether or not we will encourage those students and recognize this is a time in america when the burden of student debt is even affecting seniors who either had their own debt that remains there or they provided help to their children or their grandchildren, and they have huge amounts of debt. They need to be able to deduct the interest on that debt. You can go down one provision after another, and you will see that relief is not accorded. And i will yield to the gentleman from michigan. You know, when you go down this list, you can see lobbyists at work, every single one of these. Carried interest is just one example. And you can look at each of these. You talk about special interests and you want to rid the code of special interests . Mr. Dog get, thank you for yielding, and i think all of us on the democratic side can just look through these and just see what lobbyist has been in to see you guys. Well, i think a little earlier in the debate in response to a question from mr. Larson about finding out the details of whats in this amendment, he was told by the chairman, quote, the gentleman can review the amendment when it is offered. Its clear that its been offered and considered by many people, perhaps on k street, perhaps the many people who have gathered here today, but certainly the members of this committee have not been accorded the courtesy, even on issues in which theyre keenel involved of looking at the bundles of provisions that is this this amendment. And we know that many of the issues that have been raised by our colleagues this after as improvements that are needed to this bill, that they have not been considered or included. All of this, whatever has been added here, has, of course, been added with borrowed money. To the extent that this involves additional cost, its being borrowed and added to the 2. 3 trillion. Theres some suggestion that theres some new savings, mr. Larson, from moving to a chain cpi. All of that is nothing but a precedent for weakening Social Security. They want to do it here so that they can come back to our Social Security recipients, who see so little coming in additional cost of living benefit in january, and this will be the precedent for saying to them they dont even get the little bit of cost of living increase they get now. So for all of these reasons i would urge my colleagues to vote a firm no against in amendment and all this represents and rejecting the traditions of this committee. Youre recognizesed to strike the last word on the amendment. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And i want to go back to what our colleagues on the other side lobbyists had a hand in this. I take exception to that. When i look at this amendment, there are a number of things that i know that youve done, that youve been listening to members here in particular. And i can tell you section 1104 and section 1105 is part of this amendment that was a lot of work between myself, joint tax, the irs commissioner and your staff, which was really addresses improper payments under the earned income tax credit. Its actually a bill that ive dropped improper tax payments reduction act of 2017. Unfortunately, we know this program is riddled with fraud and error. And a 2016 report from the treasury Inspector General inspected that nearly 1 in 4 payments are improper, exceeding 16 billion annually in improper payments. This legislation this piece, actually, seeks to address this issue in a variety of ways. So i want to thank you for listening not only to me, but as i look through this, there are a number of other issues that are also included in this that i know my colleagues have talked to you about. And i think its important to know that the other side, i think youve heard the chairman say, that if there are issues you have concerns about, you should bring them to the chairman. This is actually a document that appears to show the chairman is listening to members on this committee that have gone to him and asked him for certain things. And also, the Business Community as well. Because i also know there are, as i read through this whole you were spending your last ten minutes talking, there are actually issues here that i know the Business Community was concerned about and there are corrections as well being done to move this in a better place. So i want to thank the chairman for listening. Im hoping that youll continue to listen to members of the other side, and well continue to be able to Work Together to get this bill to a point where in the end its a better bill, but also a bill that makes sure it gross the economy and strengthens a system which is clearly over burdensome right now. Will the gentleman yield . I will. So this is an area that you worked on. We retained the earned income tax credit on the postcard. That is how we help people get from welfare to work and then to better paying jobs. So we retained that commitment. If i understand it correctly, from our long discussions about that, these provisions make sure the dollars go to those families because theres a great deal, unfortunately, hardworking families send their money to washington, the irs and others send it to families who arent eligible for this. So your provisions simply say your tax dollars wont be wasted for all the work youve done through the year. It actual will go to the people, the families were trying to help move from welfare to work. Theyre trying to help themselves move from welfare to work. These provisions address this directly. Correct . They do. And again, i appreciate your time and effort on this because this actually makes sure that those dollars are going in the right hands. And i appreciate you listening. But again, a number of issues in this amendment also go to you listening to people and members here who have come to you and talked to you about this. So thank you and ill yield back. Thank you. Mr. Thompson, youre recognized to strike the last word on the amendment. I move to strike the last word. Yes, sir. We came into this hearing today, and we heard from you, mr. Chairman, about the great history and tradition of this wonderful committee. And i think everybody here would tell you that we all worked really hard to get on this committee for that very reason. This committee deals with some of the most important and the weightiest issues that face our constituents and the American People. And then we proed after the all the lofty talk, we proceeded to talk about a bill that none of us had even seen until last friday. And today we start a markup on this. And as was pointed out by a number of committee members, without any witnesses, without any hearings. Were going to mark this bill up and were going to rush it through in a week. Were going to change the tax law significantly, and as also was pointed out, changes that havent been made, issues that havent been dealt with in some 30 years, and were going to rush it through to be done by noon on thursday. And im told that this process is even going to require or at least one night this week that we work right around the clock to do this. And my experience has been that whenever you work right