[ gavel ] welcome back, everyone. Sorry for the extra tenminute delay, but we have finished at least this tranche of voting, and hopefully, well have an opportunity to get through this last panel with an opportunity for questions and conclude the hearing before we have another round of votes, so thats the hope here. This second panel is perhaps more of our technical panel. We have several witnesses present to help answer questions about modern development on the north slope and what it might look like in the future. Joining us today are mr. Aaron sh shutt, president and ceo of doyon limited. Thank you for being here. You also brought your son with you, which is a great Educational Opportunity for him, and we appreciate your being here. Lois epstein is with us. Lois has been before the committee before. We welcome her back. She is the Arctic Program director for the wilderness society. Following ms. Epstein, well have mr. Richard glenn, also a frequent flyer to the energy committee. He is executive Vice President for land and Natural Resources with the arctic slope regional corporation. And its good to have you back, richard. Pat is the former special assistant for Alaska Affairs at the department of the interior during the previous administration. So welcome back, pat. And last on our panel is matthew cronin, a biologist and former Research Professor at the university of alaska fairbanks. And some of us know him as the caribou man, but certainly one that is well versed in the biology of many of these issues that we have been discussing. So thank you all for traveling the distance to be here today. Thank you not only for your contributions before the hearing, but also for the good work that you do in your respective areas. Aaron, if you would like to lead the panel off with your comments. Again, try to stick to five minutes, if you can. Your full statement will be incorporated as part of the record, and then well have an opportunity for questions. So, welcome. Thank you, madam chairwoman, members of the committee. Its a very great opportunity to be here to testify today. I am the president and chief executive officer of doyon, limited. I am a nebraskan tribal member and a boyon shareholder. Doyon is 1 of the 13 native regional corporations established by congress under the alaskan claims settlement act. In the southern origin of the wildlife refuge lies within our region. Doyon supports the opening of the coastal plain to oil and Gas Development, if it can be shown to be consistent with the protection of the porcupine caribou herd. The people rely on that herd for subsistence and cultural survival, and we encourage the United States government to offer the gwichin. Today i want to focus my testimony on our whollyowned subsidiaries in the oil and gas industry, doyon drilling. We operate with the most advanced rigs in the industry, designed especially for the arctic. And doyon drilling has led the industry in innovation and adoption of new technology over its 40 years of existence. Were proud of that leadership role as it fits within our corporate value of a commitment to employee safety and sound environmental practices. When Congress Last debated opening anwar to oil and Gas Development in 2005, supporters made many arguments about the use of new technology and how it would minimize the impact on anwr, and some of these claims have since borne out in the industry. A couple are directional extended reach multilateral drilling techniques that have been developed and perfected during that time frame, and those techniques allow wells to be drilled in all directions from a well pad, kind of like spokes on a bicycle wheel. Directional drilling has been around since the 1970s, but athat time, it was it did not allow the reach that we can now, so you could drill a couple square miles around a pad. And ive got a figure here thats been shown before in the hearing today. You can see a couple three square miles using technology from the 1970s. And fastforward to the one on the far right, a 12acre pad where a drill rig can reach out and cover 125 square miles. That means that you can space pads in modern development up to ten miles apart and that theres little to no surface impact between those pads. Thats a fairly dramatic shift in technology during that time period. And id like to say that the impact of those technological changes are not theoretical. Weve got another graphic coming up here. Doyons rig 142 recently completed a pent lateral well in the compartment field on alaskas north slope. Thats five production wells drilled from a single surface wellbore. Each of those pentilateral wells is now producing from different reservoir sands through three different fault blocks. The total drill length of the five wells is over 39,000 feet. 28,000 feet of that i understand is in the production zone. If doyons client had developed these same resources 20 years ago, it likely would have required probably three drill pads and multiple wells on each of those pads to access the same resources we were able to access from a single surface location. Doyon is currently building an extended reach drilling rig, also referenced earlier in the hearing, rig 26. That will be able to reach out even further. Thats the 35,000 horizontal feet that was mentioned by several people earlier today. And thats the capability that allows to reach out for the full 125 square miles from a single selfsurface well pad. For perspective for those here in the room, rig 26 will be able to drill from here on capitol hill and hit a target the size of certainly this room at the National Harbor resort and Convention Center on the Potomac River thats 6 1 2 miles away. Rig 26 is being developed to allow our client to develop known but currently untapped Oil Resources from existing surface infrastructure. In other words, our client wont have to build new pads, roads or pipelines on the surface to produce known oil reserves. The changes in technology have allowed smaller well pads on the slope, north slope, and they are up to 70 smaller and there are 70 to 80 fewer pads since prudhoe bay was developed in the 1970s. So what that looks like is a 19,000acre footprint goes down to just a few Hundred Acres to develop the alpine field on the western side. Finally, this has also been referenced. Got it upside down there. The impact of exploration on the environment is very minimal. The difference between exploration and production you can see an indication here with rig 147 and then weve got the summer version of the same location. Senator sullivan mentioned this before. Also upside down. Where theres almost no lasting surface impact from exploration. So i wanted to close my testimony here by saying how Important Oil and gas is to the economy of the state and to our company. We obviously have a large presence in the alaska oil and gas economy. It was developed because it was the available economy to us as a corporation in the 1970s with the development of prudhoe bay, and were very proud that we employ hundreds of our alaska native shareholders and do it in an environmentally safe and the protection of our employees is paramount. But to also provide income to our shareholders. A single drill rig, for example, could have a salary impact of 4 million for our alaska native shareholders per year on those rigs. Those numbers are not theoretical either. Thats the reality weve had for many years, times the number of rigs we have working. So, in short, madam chairwoman, were very proud to be here today. Were supportive of opening anwr, but only if we can assure ourselves of the protection of the porcupine caribou herd, as i mentioned earlier in my testimony. Thank you. Thank you very much, and appreciate the visuals as well. Next lets go to ms. Epstein. Welcome. Thank you very much, chairman murkowski and also, though shes not here, to Ranking Member cantwell, senator king and other members of the committee for inviting me to testify at this important hearing on a Critical National public lands issue. My name is lois epstein, and i am the Arctic Program director for the wilderness society, and my home is in anchorage. Our organizations scientists began working in this region of the arctic in the 1930s, and as an alaska licensed engineer, i am proud to be part of that legacy. The Arctic National wildlife refuge is a vast wilderness landscape of tundra plains, boil forests, dramatic mountain peaks and coastal lagoons along the nations wildest northern edge. There is no place else like it in america. For thousands of years, the home has been home to gwichin and others. It hosts one of alaskas largest caribou herds, polar and grizzly bears, wolves and dog sheep and over 160 species of birds who migrate from the refuge to breed there from all 50 states. The Arctic Refuge is the crown jewel of our nations National Wildlife refuge system. The 1. 5 million acre coastal plain is widely recognized as the biological heart of the refuge. The coastal plain is as important to our nations Natural Heritage as yellowstone and the grand canyon, where we dont choose to drill. Now, contrast this pristine wild place with oil and Gas Exploration and production, which is complicated and messy, and a lot has not changed over the years to make it less so. Even the most well financed operators have blowouts and spills. Just this year, bp had a production well blowout due to fine permafrost and International Well kill specialists had to fly in it prevent a safety disaster. This week, the state is looking at all wells with similar designs because they are concerned for the potential for additional blowouts. In 2012, rep sol had an exploratory well spew 2,000 gallons of drilling mudz. It took a month to plug the well because frigid temperatures prevented work on many days. According to the states spill database, which i looked at this week, there have been 121 crude oil spills on the north slope during the past five years or approximately two per month. A 2010 state study showed almost five spills each year on the north slope, over 1,000 gallons, and i think its important to recognize theyre not all small spills. Oil Development Infrastructure would sprawl over past parts of the coastal plain and not be confined to 2,000 acres, as some have said. The 2,000acre calculation does not include roads, gravel mines or pipelines, except for the limited places where theres support posts touching the ground. There also would be yearround air pollution and noise from generators, trucks, aircraft and processing facilities, longdistance pipelines and gravel roads that could deter from caribou from crossing, and it costs them energy, and waste from Drilling Operations and living quarters that require disposal. Directional or extendedreach drilling, which is not a new technology, will have these same impacts. Directional drilling reduces only one concern, and that is pad size. Roads and air strips are still needed. Pipelines are still required. And pollution, industrial noise and toxic spills are still inevitable. Because of higher costs due to longer wells, Directional Drilling may or may not be used by industry for exploratory drilling. As discussed at the may 10th, 2011, hearing in this committee, Oil Companies actually prefer not to use Directional Drilling for exploratory wells, because doing so provides less Technical Information about subsurface conditions. Directional drilling rhetoric is in some respects a trojan horse for access to the entire Arctic Refuge coastal plain for oil production. Neither the 2,000acre provision, nor Directional Drilling would prevent the entire coastal plain from becoming industrialized. Arctic refuge drilling is not needed. Transalaska oil pipeline flow is up 6 during the past three years, and the Alaska Department of Natural Resources expects the pipelines throughput to continue increasing through the late 2020s. And i have figure two in my testimony shows that. Significant new discoveries not on federally protected lands, including in the National Petroleum reserve, will increase production, and this new technology that weve heard about is also very useful in existing oil fields to increase production. Notably, drilling in the Arctic Refuge is not necessary to ensure that the transalaska oil pipeline remains viable for decades. The most recent cbo report on Arctic Refuge leasing was issued with limited documents in february 2012. The report estimates 5 billion in bonus bids for coastal plain split between the state and federal governments. Crude oil prices were approximately twice as high in 2012 as they are now, making Arctic Refuge drilling significantly less attractive today and for the foreseeable future. It is highly unlikely revenue and bonus bids on Arctic Refuge coastal plain leases will come anywhere close to cbos or others estimates. Since 2000, the average north slope onshore bid has been just 34 an acre. In summary, conclusion of the arctic inclusion of the Arctic Refuge in the budget is less about meeting revenue targets and more about approving a controversial, problematic measure to open the Arctic Refuge coastal plain to Oil Development without the possibility of a filibuster. It would be a black mark for alaska and this congress with future generations to industrialize and essentially destroy such a unique place. Thank you for this opportunity to discuss this unique and important region. I am happy to answer your questions. Thank you, ms. Epstein. Mr. Glenn, welcome. Thank you, madam chairman. Committee members. Im happy to see that the other half of the Arctic Coalition of america is here, so thank you for staying for the hearing. Senator king. My name is richard glenn. Im the Vice President of lands for arctic slope regional corporation. Its an Alaska Native Corporation created by congress in 1971. Its headquartered on the north slope and it includes villages such that extend from the west to the east in the arctic region of alaska, from point hope, point lay, wainwright, paktovic and the pass. North slope village residents there have always depended upon subsistence resources from the land, the rivers and the ocean. Im a tribal member. Mr. Schutt is a tribal member, the person who spoke before me is a tribal member. Our Lieutenant Governor was a tribal member. And i was stunned by the Ranking Members comments that she didnt see tribal members. And maybe she just didnt find enough tribal members that agreed with her position. I hope that you hear from all of the tribal members of the state of alaska, the majority of whom support safe, responsible exploration and development in anwr. Im also not here to debate the sacredness of the land on either side of the range, the north or the south. For us, all the lands are sacred. They contain the bones of our ancestors, and im not talking about ancient people. Im talking about people in living memory. We didnt start burying our dead until around the 1920s, so my great grandparents were the first generation of folks who were buried right after the flu epidemics swept through the region. Before those days, the tradition was to leave the residence, however temporary it was, where the person died. So ancient sod houses up until the early 1900s carried the bones of our people. And some of my ancestors bones, my grandfathers grandmother are in prudo dae yohoe bay. Others are scattered along the plain to point hope. Our people are named after the places. The places are named after the people. And some of it is state land, some of it is federal land, some is native owned land, but its all equally sacred. Yet, we depend on that land for development. We depend upon that land for food. And i dont wish to trivialize anyones dependence on the resources, because ours is equally as important. Asrc as a corporation owns a piece of this heritage, 92,000 acres of land on the coastal plain of anwr, along with matthew rexfords village corporation. These lands hold resource potential for oil and Gas Development. Im a geologist by training. I helped drill and develop Natural Resources on the north slope. I know the practices related to drilling. And ive seen the evolution over the past 50 years, and 30 or so years of my own professional life, from really simple drilling cementing and production to the ornate and efficient diagrams that youve seen here on the posters that mr. Schutt presented so effectively. The reduced footprint is real. Hundreds of square miles drained by tens of acres of development. Senator king asked how many wells are we talking about, how much surface impact . We have realworld answers to those questions. Theyre here at the table. Theyre here in the audience. In the west end of todays exploration, on the river delta and to the west where the native folks from another village 100 miles away also own resource potential. 500 wells have been drilled down to depths around 8,000 or 9,000 feet and radiating outward as far as 5 or 6 miles. On these 500 wells, production wells, injector wells, theyre done from four basic central facilities for drilling, covering maybe 300 acres of land. So now were talking realworld examples, realworld numbers of wells, for at its peak hundreds of thousands of Barrels Per Day in production. Thats the kind of development that we envision moving into the coastal plain of anwr. This is a cartoon. This diagram shows dramatic exaggerations. If you follow the scale of this map, the dots themselves are two miles across each. The well symbols themselves are three miles high. The pipelines, if theyre shown as theyre shown on this map, that pipeline would be a quarter mile wide. This is not realistic. If you want to see realistic development, look at realistic numbers, go to the areas of modern exploration and development. And yet, one thing that we learn in production is production declines. It starts at a peak and begins a decline. And the lion in the room on alaska production is prudhoe bay. The prudhoe bay and the kbara river oil fields were super giant oil fields, and were on the shoulders of their decline. And the new discoveries, as significant as they are and as thankful as i am that they have been discovered, they cant match the slope of the decline. They only change its slope. Still a decline. Meanwhile, 92,000 acres and the million or so acres of coastal plain of anwr, area set aside just for its energy potential, lies fallow. And we cant even test their potential unless congress acts. We think that the alaska native land owners of cook tovic and the folks from the arctic slope region cannot realize their right to economic selfdetermination if Congress Fails to lift the probatihibitin safe exploration and development of the coastal plain. So Congress Needs to act. My organization was an agreement made between congress and the tribes of alaska. We didnt ask for it. In fact, we fought against it, but were living with the results. And so, in our region, we have a braided relationship of municipalities, tribes, and anxa corporations. Were all welded together, braided together, like a rope, so you cant separate tribe from corporation and you cant separate our mothers languages from the language of discourse were using here today. I could speak in the language of my mother, and it would be gibberish to you, and frankly, disrespectful to everybody. The only Indigenous People that should be listened to the loudest are the pokes from paktovic. And todays hearing to me shows theres a lack of tension paid to them. Listen to what theyre saying. They need an economy. They need development in their area. They want to have the freedom to do what the rest of the country seemingly takes for granted. Were talking about reliable power and water and schools the ability to use sanitation that keeps their kids healthy. I strongly recommend that the committee look at the testimony of the folks from the village. If you look at the tribal folks from throughout alaska, we dont agree 100 , but the majority do agree. We believe that wildlife and development can coexist. They already do today. In fact, were collaring caribou in the area of Current Development around prudhoe bay, this is the central arctic caribou herd. The alaska fish and game and the World Wildlife biologists are collaring caribou that are calving in the area of infrastructure and then migrating south to Arctic Village to be hunted by our gwichin neighbors to the south. So we already are hunting caribou who are calving in areas of development. Ive had the honor of taking some of you on tours of north slope development. We see caribou there underneath pipelines, sometimes underneath facilities like man camps and hotels, and when theyre trying to get away from summer mosquitos, caribou will go anywhere. Theyll be laying down right on the tundra next to the buses that are taking the codels through the area. The caribou arent afraid. Richard, were going to have to ask you to wrap up. Because theyre not being hunted there. So, wildlife and infrastructure can coexist. We speak in favor of a safe and expeditious opening of the 1002 area. It would be good for our region, our state and our country. Thank you. Thank you. And hopefully, well have an opportunity to ask more so that you can continue. Pat, mr. Pourchot. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of the National Wildlife refuge. I am testifying today as a Public Servant and private citizen. My past lives over 45 years in alaska have included serving in the alaska state legislature, as commissioner of the Alaska Department of Natural Resources, work for the Alaska Federation of natives and audubon alaska, and most recently special assistant to the secretary of the interior for Alaska Affairs. I would confess from the onset that i have worked for politicians and organizations that have favored drilling in the Arctic Refuge and for those that have opposed exploration and development. Since my participation as a congressional staffer in the passage of the Alaska National interest Lands Conservation act years ago, i have witnessed decades of debate on the issue of permitting oil and gas leasing and development in the refuge. As an alaskan, i appreciate the economic benefits that might accrue from Oil Development in the refuge, but i have come to the conclusion that the last piece of americas arctic is more appropriately left as wilderness as a far more valuable legacy for future generations. Ive had the opportunity to hike the mountains and float wild rivers in the refuge to observe herds of caribou in the coastal plain, witnessed dozens of of polar bear on the seacoast and fly over thousands of snow geese gathering on the coastal plain of the refuge. There can be no denying that the Arctic Refuge is one of the most special and spectacular places on the planet. Americas arctic coastal plain stretches over 600 miles from the Canadian Border westward. Most of this area is available for oil and Gas Development. In the central arctic, Oil Development on state lands surrounding prudhoe bay sprawls for over 100 miles along the seacoast. Further west, leasing and development are proceeding in the 23 million acre National Petroleum reserve alaska. And now it is proposed to explore and develop the last remaining part of the arctic coastal plain, our national heritage. Some argue that the 1. 5 million acres of coastal plain proposed for development in the refuge represents only a small fraction of the refuge and development would not significantly impact the overall refuge. But the narrow coastal plain is the biological and ecological heart of the refuge. The coastal plain is an integral component of the refuges ecosystem and provides key habitat for calving and migrating caribou, water fowl, nesting shore birds and denning sites for polar bear. The resources report called for in section 1002 of anilca issued in 1987 found that the 1002 area is the most biologically productive part of the Arctic Refuge for wildlife and is the center of wildlife activity. And why are we proposing to develop the last remaining part of the arctic coastal plain . Are we at war and need more oil for our nations security . Have we run out of oil, gas, and gasoline for our homes and cars . Do we really think that leasing revenues will significantly help our federal and state budgets . The answer is clearly no to all of these questions, and the answer should be no to the question of allowing oil and Gas Development in the refuge. I was greatly moved by the documentary the National Parks americas best idea. In the late 1950s, a dedicated group of fairbanks residents, including the fairbanks garden club, had a best idea to protect wild public lands spanning the brooks range in the Northeast Corner of alaska. In 1960, the 9 million acre Arctic National wildlife range was created under a land owner by secretary of interior seton for the purpose of preserving unique wildlife, wilderness and recreational values. This great idea was renewed in 1980 with the passage of anilca, in which the range was expanded and renamed the Arctic National wildlife refuge. Its purposes were laid out in statute to conserve fish and wildlife populations and habitats in their natural diversity. Ken burns documentary vividly demonstrates how the heroes of our nations history are those who had the foresight to protect and defend americas cultural and National Treasures for the benefit and enjoyment of future generations. Those folks of fairbanks helped protect something of preeminent value to the nation a generation ago for those of us today. Conversely, history and our children will not honor those that would deface one of americas most treasured landscapes. The Arctic Refuge should be the very last place we allow Oil Development. Thank you. Thank you, pat. Dr. Cronin, welcome to the committee. Thank you, senator murkowski, senator king, and committee, for allowing me to testify. Im matt cronin, and im a biologist. And today ill speak mostly about caribou and oil fields and the science. The sciences large, the literature on the science is very large, and ill provide a brief summary here orally and in my written testimony theres many citations, the scientific papers. This summer, i was lucky enough to watch senator king at the symposium on the impacts of an icediminishing arctic. I watched it online. Senator murkowski, you gave comments at the symposium. And senator king said something very insightful to me as a scientist. He said we cant make good policy without good data. And then he said, give us the science in a way we can understand and absorb, and nothing could be more important. So, i understand that as nonscientists, you need scientists to tell you things in a way you can understand. Theres two problems. One is the science, the literature is very large. And the other is separating the actual data and science from interpretation. And thats our job as scientists is to clearly differentiate those. I feel its my duty to inform all of congress and all the American People of the science, and then policy will come from that. Science doesnt make policy, it informs policy. And that was a major point of senator kings comments at that symposium that i really appreciated. With regard to caribou in the oil fields, as many references in my written testimony and within the references many references, ill hit on a few key points. First, there is impacts to individuals, and then theres impacts to populations. An important concept with regard to the north slope caribou herds herds are not the same as populations, as we typically speak about them in biology. Herds are defined by cabbing areas. The population all four north slope herds to some extent are the same population. Theres immigration between them. Theres overlap on winter ranges. So, the herd censuses are good in terms of quantifying the numbers of animals calving in the area, but the population is much more dynamic and affected by many factors. The studies have shown some level of displacement of calving cows from roads, but its not unequivocal. In the case of those studies, 44 of the calves observed were within the first four kilometers of the roads, which was the area claimed to be displacement. And then a replicate study showed most of the calves, the higher density, was within the first kilometer. The point is, the literature is not clear cut. Calves dont always avoid oil field infrastructure, the cows having the calves. In the summer, the caribou use the oil fields quite extensively, as mr. Glenn said. They go up on the pads and under pipelines for insect relief. The caribou herds themselves are quite dynamic. If you look at the charts in my written testimony, which are the graphs of the populations, the central arctic, the porcupine and western arctic herds, youll see dramatic variation over time. And natural populations in general in caribou in particular have very Large Population fluctuations naturally, due to many things winter conditions, perdation and immigration and emigration, as i mentioned. So, the biology is complex and the literature is large. The Alaska Department of fish and game stated in a newsletter last year, the impact of Oil Infrastructure on the central arctic herd has also been considered in recent decline but is not thought to be contributing to the decline since the herd grew substantially during peak Oil Development. Several of the papers i coauthored address this point up through the early 2000s. And its important to look at the original literature and the references therein. I believe the status of the caribou and the north Slope Oil Fields has been good. They continue to use the oil field areas as habitat. The herds groan substantially since the oil fields were developed. As the oil fields were developed, new technologies and insights resulted in the much smaller area of development and mitigation measures such as elevating pipelines, separating pipelines from roads have been implemented that have helped a lot with passage through the oil fields. I think oil and Gas Development in the 1002 area can be done with limited impacts by using proven mitigation measures. I believe it can be done with minimum impacts to caribou as long as mitigation measures are implemented. One, of course, because calving is a main concern, is very simple. You simply limit activities during the calving period. You limit traffic, you limit aircraft, you limit noise, and you get local knowledge to help you manage in the local area. Ive also done research on polar bears and other arctic animals, and id be happy to provide information, if anyones interested. And feel free to ask questions. Thank you. Thank you, dr. Cronin. Thank you to each of you for your testimony here this afternoon. Well now have an opportunity for some questions. It was stated by my Ranking Member at the outset of the committee that in her view, not much has changed. And i think some of the arguments against anwr, thats true, those arguments are still the same that many of us recall from a long time ago. But what ive heard today is a recognition that we really have seen change. In the seven years since this committee has last considered the prospect for the 1002 area, the technology, as mr. Schutt has outlined, has changed considerably, but i also think that the data, the science, the research that has been collected over the 40some odd years that we have been operating up north can better inform us. And you mentioned mitigation, dr. Cronin. You mentioned those technologies. And mr. Glenn, you speak of the caribou and the fact that the caribou are around the camps, they are on the roads. Theyre not deterred by manmade activities. Now, we recognize that that is not while they are calving, that is clearly a more sensitive time. But i would like a little more discussion here just in terms of how we are utilizing the science that we have collected to be better stewards of the wildlife, the infrared thats being used to detect polar bears in a den and how we are avoiding contact or disturbance, and again, some of the other mitigation measures. The proposal was made that perhaps there might be some form of comanagement of caribou if we are to move forward with the 1002. Id like to open up that discussion, if i may. Lets start off with you, richard. Thank you for the question, senator murkowski. As dr. Cronin stated, the issue of timing comes out strongest, and the exploration, of course, of the coastal plain would happen in the winter, which is not a calving season. And so, theres already before you move on, i think its important for colleagues to understand, when we talk about exploration in alaska in the wintertime, its not because we like to be out in the cold and the dark. Right. It is because we are required to do exploration during this period. If you might address that as well. The navy began exploring for oil and gas on the north slope in the 1940s, and they discovered very quickly that summertime, which is when a lot of exploration happens in warmer climates, is not the time to try to move about on the tundra, because everything you do that needs heavy equipment gauges itself into the thawedout surface. And so, over a few short years of learning the hard way, the industry tailored its practices to operate in the winter, when the ground is frozen, so that even if there was no snow cover and no ice road, for example, the tundra kind of protects itself by being in a frozen state. Thats just the general paradigm of exploration the way it exists today. Flash forward to today, in addition to those hard lessons learned, they had developed ways to explore with seismic and drilling on ice roads and ice pads that further insolate the surface from the harmful effects of summertime disturbance of the tundra. So, the calendar already dictates that the machinerys going to be around when the animals are less likely to be there. Now, my upbringing is from the central part of the arctic slope where sometimes caribou are around year round. I hunt in fact, those of us who live from fairbanks northward, were caribou connoisseurs. We know when the marrow changes flavor, we know when the fur is the best. We can tell the difference between pregnant and nonpregnant cows, for example. And calving is a special time. And if youre a caribou hunter, you know that a mother caribou thats already carrying a calf inside her, she wants to lay down, and shell lay down anywhere, as long as shes not being threatened by something. And its the pregnant caribou that shows the least, i dont know dr. Cronin might know better than me, but ive hunted a lot of caribou. And when they run away from you, the pregnant cows are the ones that still stay laying on the ground, or for some reason, run away and come back. And so, the nature of a caribou carrying a calf is different than regular caribou behavior. All of that is this mayjune time frame, when all of the exploration tools should be out of the theater. Once development happens, if development happens, the facilities and the pipelines are constructed to minimize their effects. The pipelines are elevated so caribou can walk unimpeded underneath the pipelines, and the facilities are concentrated under small, focused pads. Theres a lot of stuff happening on one piece of gravel, and the caribou are free to do whatever they need to do on the undisturbed tundra that surrounds the pads. Thank you. Im over my time. Lets go to senator king. Thank you. Dr. Cronin, its intimidating that you cite my own words. Literally scores of people watched that presentation online. So let me go back to some of the questions that i asked before. Mr. Schutt, maybe you can answer this. I think ive discerned the answer. Its not 2,000 contiguous acres, correct . Its 2,000 acres made up of lots of little pieces . It would certainly not be 2,000 contiguous acres. So the drilling isnt limited to one 2,000acre square in this large area . I have to say, ive never seen the geology. Its not publicly available to people like me, but the size of oil fields is many thousands of acres or hundreds of thousands of acres, if youre talking about billions of barrels of potential oil, and to recover that, there would certainly be several small pads, maybe one or two mediumsized pads. Were talking tenacre drill sites or twelveacre drill sites and maybe a few Central Drill pads that are a couple Hundred Acres that have but there would have to be, i presume, to get the oil out, there would have to be pipelines, right, from each pad, each drill site . For sure, you have to have a way to transport from the drill sites to some central location. And the way to transport is a pipeline. Yes, sir. That would be an easier way to say than a way to transport. So were talking about a pipeline, but in terms of the 2,000 acres, were only talking about the feet of the pipeline, is that correct, not the shadow of the pipeline thats above the ground . I dont know that part, but i heard that for the first time today. And how many wells would you be talking about in an area like this . Someone mentioned 500 wells. Is that what are we talking about here . My calculation was a couple of thousand to get out 10 billion barrels over ten years. Any im not the right person to answer that. Do you know what the production is of your well, 1h102, the one you had the chart on . That well was finished in the last month, so i dont have production data. Its not my well, either. Its my clients well. We drilled it for them. Give me production for a typical well that you have in service. Again, we drill a lot of wells for our clients, and im not the one to ask. Theres a huge range. Some of the wells we drill are not production wells. Theyre injectors or other types of wells. Well, you see what im trying to get at here is how many wells are we talk being in this space . Is it 10, 100, 1,000, 2,000 . It would be hundreds over time to develop a billionbarrel field, if thats whats there. If its much smaller, it could be 50 wells. Okay. I would point out, mr. Glenn, youve characterized this as a cartoon. This shows 50 wells. I mean, i dont take much from the size of the little well thing, but that only shows 50 wells. If were talking about 100 or 500, youre talking about a lot more dots on this map, is that correct . Senator king, we can drill 50 wells from a tenacre drill pad. Okay, so youre considering a multiple the chart youre calling those separate wells, is that correct . Im not youre saying each line is a separate well that those im just trying to understand this. Which chart . Youve got one drill pad. The picture you put up, you said you can do ten laterals that was a pentilateral well, which means right, there are five. There are five production well bores out of one single surface location. Right. One single well off of the surface. So each one of those you would call a well, even though theres only one surface thats correct. Spot. Technically for those in the industry, thats five wells, yes, sir. I think its important for us working through this to understand if were talking about 10 billion barrels, what is that implying to in terms of how many wells and how many laterals are there. Trying to d were talking about on the face of the earth. Thats when im searching for. I think you answered my question the calving period is spring and summer. Yes and first few weeks of june. Is there another question. Youre the guy to answer this. Anything special about 1002 in terms of oil and gas . Im looking at the map and there is a huge area set aside for oil and gas drilling, much larger than this area. Do we have occasions this is an extraordinarily rich area, this part of anwar. Im probably not the expert you need on this question. Certainly the outcrops of the and storm reservoirs and source rocks are similar or the same. What im getting at, were talking about a special area here thats been set aside for a long time. And were seeing we need to drill here. What im trying to determine is, is this area particularly productive, or could we not drill in some of the other areas that are literally called drilling area. Referred to an area i dont want to minimize at all but many areas of alaska are special. Those of us who grew up in different parts of alaska call our own section gods country without minimizing the fact all gods country. Youre incorrect, my town in maine is gods country. I take your point on that. There is a difference between what usgs and npra and the likely field of exploration and the scale in the 1002 area and they are orders of magnitude different. Thats important for us to know. Senator king, i was to add i think usgs would be good information on the resources they predict 1002 or era. Senator cantwell. Ill defer to my colleague waiting. We will next turn to senator cortez. Thank you. Let me follow up on the line of question with senator king. Im getting confused. Finds correctly 1002 were looking at is opening up coastal plain for drilling, 1. 475 million acres. Yes . Your understanding . Yes. Im confused as to this, the 2,000 acre limitation comes from. This is referring to House Energy Bill before us. Im not sure what that means. A better understanding drilling 1. 57 acres coastal plain, i do want a better understanding how many pads were talking about, how many drilling pads. I think from my perspective, it would help to have a better understanding in npra. How many drill pads there and how much more can occur and why isnt that occurring instead of the coastal plain. I work both on npr as well as Arctic Refuge. Npra historically both high numbers in terms of how much likely oil and lower numbers more recently. Now there is a reassessment going on and there have been new discoveries. Thats why i made the point that, in fact, the slope of the oil going through the trans Alaska Pipeline is going up. There are new discoveries, and there are new ways of getting into existing reserves that are increasing, which is good. Its good for alaska. Im an alaskan. I think thats good. Drill in less sensitive areas, as you both are referring to. Usgs is looking at the npra right now and theres a lot of activity around that in terms of coming up with a new estimate which may actually show quite a b bit. Theres not much refuge for arctic data. Were waiting for data for npra to make that determination. How many drill pads there now. Theres the cd 5 one and conocophillips is working on greater mooses tooth, a new project and a new project beginning the perming process in the willow area. It could be quite large. They are trying to delineate that. One more quick point. We had quite a bit of discussion about balance in the last panel. The fact that the north slope is a large landscape and the points youre making about drilling and npra, we think that does represent balance. Some areas open for development and some areas are not because they are sensitive. Thats considered by us as less sensitive and thats fully appropriate. Just to get a better understanding. Thank you because that helps put in perspective what were talking about. As i understand each pad has potential of one drill hole, whatever you want to call it. From that drill hole comes the various wells. There could be four to five to six wells from one borehole. Is that correct . Youre asking technical question and i dont have any technical im just going off your graph. Thats what it looked like to me. Thats one. So each drill pad so if we talk about you talk about the size of your drill pads and over the course with new technology they have decreased in their footprint. It looks like from 5 acres to potential 12 acres. How many of those boreholes could potentially come from a 12acre pad is my question. You may not technically be able to answer that and ill figure out another way to get that answered. Again, sound like a lawyer here. It depends. You can assume from 12acre pad that dozens of surface boreholes could be drilled. Appropriate multilaterals out of those that would count as additional wells. Somewhere between 10 and 100 depending on the appropriateness of the design as a rough ballpark. Okay. Please go ahead if you have any comments. Thank you. You gave half of the answer i was going to give. It helps put in order events, seismic exploration starts. It comes and goes away and targets are established. Exploration drilling occurs on ice pads. The rules about drilling exploration is cut and abandon, cut below surface so it disappears when youre done with exploration. In the event of discover then you move into paradigm with pads on the ground and radiating outward from the reservoir as discussed by aaron. So theres things that have to happen. Exploration should occur everywhere and we should make reasonable decisions about development when it happens. Two different aspects to drilling. Senator. Thank you, madam chair. Im going back to this chart again. While it may be effective, just an illustration that having some experience with development in the Permian Basin and san juan basin, having seen the development around prudeo bay i would note for my colleagues with what im dealing with, antelope, its not the well pads that typically are the substantial part of the disturbance and which can impede the movement, its everything that comes with those, the roads, gravel mines, electrical transmission, pipelines. The more linear barrier you put in the face of migration, the less likely that migration is to occur. Rather than look at an illustration, i would suggest maybe all of us can do a little google earth and go look at what it looks like. Its not the well pads that got my attention but linear obstacles to migration. I have a question for mrs. Epstein. One of my things is doing it through budget reconciliation. In context of bill, rather than legislative process. I assume were doing that because it would be difficult, if not impossible, to pass this as stand alone legislation and get 60 votes for it. One of the requirements of that budget process is that we produce a billion dollars of new revenue over the next two years. A new report out this week casts doubt whether its realistic. Can you walk us through numbers and talk about what would be necessary in particular reasonable bonus bids because thats the likely income to come in the first ten years and would we could hit that target or not or what a realistic estimate might be. Thank you, senator. I would say i share your frustration about the speed of this process and the inability to get all the information. The senate needs to make a responsible decision, just as an example, i have my colleague, a senior ecologist has quite a number of responses to the testimony that would be beneficial and we will submit that to the committee. That would be important so that you would have a full picture of the actual nature of the caribou development and relationship with polar bears. For the record. Yes, thank you. In terms of directly answering your question, i can partly answer. With the price of oil being now in the 50 a barrel range, alaska is not terribly attractive in new areas to Oil Companies. At the same time we have lots of shale Oil Development in the lower 48 that is more inexpensive. The idea they would pay extra and go for bonus bids to be sure they had a piece of this very controversial area that a lot of companies would shy away from is unlikely. I just participated in National Academy of science oil related committee on thursday and alked my industry colleagues about Arctic Refuge. One comment i heard is if this was likely to be as productive, there would have been a lot more activity, more wells. My calculation is it would have to be a little over 1 hun an acre in terms of bonus bids, which is six times historical average. I dont have a ton of time left. I guess ill just end with this. I guess we have to come up with a billion dollars. We produced a lot of oil and gas in the state of new mexico. Theres some places we will never, ever drill, wildlife ref unlgs. I think we need to be careful what doors were opening today. We will not be able to undo this once a substantial reserve is find. To find that billion dollars, i would never advocate mining for uranium in the grand canyon or geothermal resources in yellowstone. Having been to the refuge, its a wildlife refuge. Thats why its called the Arctic National wildlife refuge. It is not a Petroleum Reserve and we should remember that. Thank you, senator. Thank you Ranking Member cant well for convening this important conversation. I want to thank the witnesses who traveled far to join us for the hearing. Working families across the nail nation, i know every state faces unique challenges supporting industries and creating new jobs and i recognize how important the oil industry has been to the chairwomans home state of alaska. However, when it comes to dramatically oil Storm Tracker 4 operations in areas like Arctic National refuge, i have serious questions concerning potential for catastrophic incidents that could inflict irreparable harm. If the tragedy of deepwater horizon should teach us anything, its difficult and tough questions before approving massive expansion of Drilling Operations. Discussing Oil Extraction in this republican budget, its not a matter of if an oil spill will occur but rather a matter of when and how bad will it be. Weve heard a lot of about advances in drilling, setting this aside, can you explain in plain english if its more dangerous to drill in the arctic and why . Thank you, senator, for the question. The arctic is remote. There arent a lot of resources if there are problems. Those have to be throflown in. That happens when bp had something unexpected happen. Permafrost around an old well you would think they would know whats going on was thawing. That resulted not in an oil spill but quite a safety situation, which is a concern to operators and their employees, absolutely. We have had situations where it is frigid and cold and you cant work, so you need a lot of specific expertise. It is very much an area where you need to know what youre doing. Thank you. I understand the state of alaska complete add report in 2010 which revealed over 6,000 north slope spills from 1995 to 2009. Analysis of this report indicates there was an oil spill of 1,000 gallons of oil or more every two months from 1995 to 2009. Miss epstein when oil spills and we have to clean it up, again, is the Oil Spill Cleanup more challenging . If oil spilled in the area today, what would the effects of that spill be . Thank you for that question. It would depend a bit about the time of year, if you had an oil spill in winter and it landed just on frozen tundra, you might be able to clean it up quickly. If you had a spill that ended up in a waterway, however, and flowed to the colleyville river, tremendous impacts to the system. These are fragile areas. The water is only flowing some of the year. Thats when all the biology, activities take place. It would be quite damaging. Is there any legislation we could consider that would make drilling in the arctic safer and less prone to spills . Best we could do is tweak it. Were going to have spills. Its a complicated industry, hard to be on top of everything all the time at the same Time Companies are trying to minimize cost. Its tough. We cant prevent spills. Theres no evidence from the industry that would say we could stop all spills. Thank you. Mr. Alexander, i want to start off by saying the alaskan first peoples are some have served our United States military at rates per capita larger than other population. Extreme courage and dedication i want to thank all the representatives of the first people for that. Mrs. Alexander, is your community alone in concerns or are your fears shared by other tribes. Can you remind us what the stakes are if your people cant depend on caribou hunting. Senator, mr. Alexander was part of the first panel. Sorry. Hes not with us. Perhaps you can us that question of him after the hearing. I apologize for that. No worries. With that i yield back. I have 16 seconds anyway. Thank you. Lets go to senator cant we cantwell. Senator franken. Thank you. Ranking member and chair. Doctor, in your research looking at caribou populations, you found they were not significantly impacted by the presence of appear oilfield r d road. Is that correct . Yes. Thank you. For this research, did you ever receive any funding from Oil Companies . Yes. Do you think receiving funding from Oil Companies could bias the outcomes of your research . No, sir. Did you ever consider that the same Oil Companies that funded your research would use your work as justification for drilling and that might have been a motivation of theirs . Well, first of all, the data we used and probably the paper youre talking about is a 2004 pap paper. We used alaska state Department Fish and game data in addition to Data Collected by our group. The oil industry funded studies sometimes has a requirement for permits or stipulations for operating after permits were granted. They wanted to get preand post Development Data in some cases. Or in other cases just post development to in this case look at the distribution of caribou. Whether it was used to justify future drilling, it was always done with the intent of publishing in Peer Reviewed scientific literature, which we did, and all the references i give in my written testimony are such. Okay. Well, the manuscript says it was developed with support from exxonmobil and bp exploration. Is that right . Depending which paper, sure. Okay. Thank you. Miss epstein, could you talk about why this refuge was preserved in the first place. What are the distinguishing factors that make the Arctic Refuge coastal plain different from other areas on the arctic coastal plain and why does that matter . Thank you, senator franken. One important characteristic, the coastal plain is very narrow compared to further west where the prudhoe bay is. That means the area caribou go to birth their calves is smaller. There are alternatives. They go there because they receive insect relief and they also are able to avoid predators. They can see them coming, in other words. Beyond that, it is an intact ecosystem with the full range of species. Its a National Treasure in a lot of ways that many refer to as americas serengeti. I was myself there once, not related to work. I was there recreationally and i did see enormous numbers of caribou and really felt i saw one of the worlds Great Migrations happening that i felt very privileged to see. There are few places like that in the world. It was quite beautiful. I included a personal photo in my testimony. Thank you. Well, youre right. The Arctic National wildlife refuge is home to many unique plant and animal species, including critical habitat for polar bear, which is listed as threatened under endangered species act and, of course, for the porcupine caribou thats essential, as we heard from the last panel is essential to the people. As Climate Change continues to affect, how important will it be to wildlife and in digit fuss people. Thank you, senator. We heard from others its real and dramatic as you move north, particularly north of alaska. Again, other panelists described Climate Change impact on many things, human life and wildlife. I think in areas that miss epstein described is a finite area. The effects of Climate Change could be substantial. I think the answer if there is one to your question, we dont really know. I think thats one of the issues surrounding this debate. In the absence of knowing things as science or fact or what the impacts may be, i think that argues for a cautionary approach. Thank you. Thank you. I definitely agree. I find the debate weve had so far interesting because when i think of alaska, i think of its great beauty. I think of john muir and his exploration of glaciers at glassier bay that made it popular today and yet they are receding. I dont know if anybody is ready to put up a sign that says cruise ships dont bother anymore, because im sure alaska wants them to come. But thats what were continuing to threatening by threatening to proceed. Youre ind mining not only this wildlife refuge but a very important way of life that is larger chan wildlife refuge to me i hold that dear. Those are important elements of the northwest economy. Because i represent the state of washington, i assure you patty murray and i dont get to decide what happens at Mount Rainier park. When federal land is designated, we have a lot of discussions with a lot of representatives but you dont get to make the decision because you represent the state. I wanted to ask you, theres been so much conversations about the wildlife purpose can coexist on the refuge. Can it, yes or no . I would answer no. As i said in my testimony, when you look at the purposes in statute that establish the refuge that included wildlife and their natural diversity, references to wilderness similar to the executive order establishing the range, the predecessor of the refuge in 1960 talks about the same sorts of values and outstanding resources. When you look at the 1987 report that was authorized by congress for 1002 area, very emphatic references to wilderness resources, to wildlife resources. Those were also brought out in the more recent conservation plan ccp just completed for the refuge in 2015 after four years to look at new science, management options, look at the purposes of the refuge and the Refuge Administration act. And they reiterated again those very important Natural Resources, particularly wildlife and wilderness, that were really exemplified by refuge. That recommendation, which was interesting Deputy Director did not mention for recommendation for wilderness for coastal refuge. A nice way to say about his testimony was very selective. We have sent a letter to the secretary. This should be clear. We should just get a yes or no answer from him about the purposes. You gave me one today, and the answer is no. Thats what any scientist would tell you. What i object to besides the sham process weve been going through here to hurry this through with 51 votes it ought to be clear. If you want to open the refuge, admit youre going to destroy wildlife refuge. You cant sit here and tell our colleagues an try to deny by stacking a hearing an not giving us information and not having the science that somehow thats not the case, so it is. You can decide you dont want the refuge. I disagree. I think its one of the most unbelievable things we have on planet earth. Not just the United States, planet earth. Its that intact. What were going to learn from it and continue to preserve from our heritage and past in our wildlife there is unbelievable. People spend thousands to go to serengeti in alaska to look at this. Did anybody in alaska think in the future as the arctic ice comes to melt that there wouldnt be people who want to vitt it in a more recreational environment. To me its well worth preserve. Well see what happens when the secretary answers our letter. You can have both and thats what scientists are going to tell us. People should just choose, if they want to drill or destroy, drill and destroy. I would preserve, because as ive said before, i guarantee you were all going to be gone in the future and its going to be whether this pristine place gives the next generation such an unbelievably look at what existed on our planet before. I agree, its spiritual. Its spiritual and we should preserve it. Thank you, madam chair. We clearly disagree its an eitheror proposition. It absolutely is not. For those of us who call alaska home and for those that suggest we would spoil for shortterm gain. Im offended. I respect every alaskans opinion. I respect the fact there are those who come from a different homeland than i might being born in the southeast. I respect the views and opinions. I think we recognize that as alaskans we have options. And our options i think at the beginning of the day and the end of the day, we all want to get to the same place that we have an economy that will allow us to stay in the most amazing place. Whether your home is there, we have to remain there. You have to have the ability to stay there. When you live in a cold place, you need to be able to have the means to keep warm. I think about matthew rexfords family, and the generation that is came before him, just one generation prior r, it was a li and a lifestyle that was pretty harsh and pretty difficult. Literally trying to find firewood that would come down the river to keep the family home warm. So again as we think about the choices that we have as alaskans, weve always been in this place. Weve always been in a place where we are resource rich. We are with a small population. Our costs are high. But the effort to make sure we can continue to remain in this amazing place has to be one where we work to find the balance, where we ensure that we have the level of food security. If you are from fort uconn or kaktovik, youre going to rely on the caribou and whale and probably will for generations to come as long as we care for the land and the waters. This our challenge, this is our charge. I dont think any one of us wishes to be the one that says we allowed rape, pillage and ruin on our land for shortterm gain. Thats not what this is about. I think people forget for 40 years now, 40 plus years we have been exploring, producing, giving revenue an jobs to the country. We have done so in a way that everybody still wants to come to alaska. Those cruise ships, people want to come to alaska. So if we have ignored our environment, that certainly isnt apparent. So we do require the highest standards, i believe, in the country, i believe in the world. And we do that for good reason, because when the exploration winter period is over, we dont want to see the tracks on the tundra, if the winter trail led to a place that was not going to be productive. Were making sure that were using our smarts and intelligence and all that we have to develop the technologies that make some of these questions hard to answer. How can you predict how many pads were going to need. Forty years ago the pad in prudhoe was pretty significant and remains today. But nobody, nobody is talking about building another prudhoe. Because we believe even with prudhoe like resources our technology will allow us to access this in a way that is more consistent with our respect for the environment, to be able to shrink that footprint. To be able to do so much more with a smaller area, and to recognize what that delivers to us so we dont know how many pads. Were not sure how many whales necessarily, because the technology is evolving every single day. To look at the diagram and hear your testimony you have one series of wells in production now but knowing by 2010 excuse me 2020 what you will be able to access will be so much more than what you have been what you have put in place today. This where the technology is taking us. We talk about shale revolution and what that has done to allow a level of Energy Independence we never thought possible. Its not because that resources materialized overnight where it wasnt, it was always there. We used our smarts and technology to allow us to access it better and more official ly. Thats what were doing. The senator challenged us to go to google earth and take a look at prudhoe bay. It is up there. It is still a 65 acre pad. It is. Thats technology from 40 years ago. Thats what it looked like 40 years ago. Thats like telling you to stick with the same phone we were using 40 years ago an compare it to what we were using today. The statement was made nothing has changed with the anwar debate. I disagree so, so, so strongly with that. The technology has changed. Our ability to access and understand the science and data and research we know and the effort that we are making led by clans to care, to not only protect the environment but protect the animals, the wildlife, the water fowl. Richard, your family has been up on the north slope for generations and on your mothers side for hundreds if not thousands of years. Ill bet you still feel awe and wonderment when you see those caribou come through thousands at a time. It is amazing. It is magical, and it is spiritu spiritual. Our challenge is to allow that to continue, not only for the benefit of the caribou but for the people who thrive there. I just feel like so much of this discussion has taken place in the absence of those who live there. So i was actually going to ask more questions but i think weve probably taken as much time as was important to lay the record down here today. But i do thoep that colleagues recognize this is not an effort to do some secret maneuver in a back room. If that were the case, we would not have had a public hearing for five hours televised for all the world to see. If that were the case we would not have an open markup like we will. None has been scheduled yet, but we will have that. We will have an opportunity to weigh in as lawmakers on whether or not we should keep the commitment, the commitment the governor and Lieutenant Governor reminded us of. That commitment, when this 1002 area, when this area was specifically set aside for the opportunity to pursue exploration and development of our oil and gas potential, provided certain conditions were met and congress approves. Weve gone through this battle many times as congressman reminded us, 12, 13 times. I believe i believe that we are at that place that the Lieutenant Governor that reminded us. We are at that place where we have met that balance in that our technology is allowing us to do things that were once just unimaginable. You couldnt even imagine being able to drill down at the center of the capital and be able to reach an area out by the National Harbor. This is not drilling as has been suggested. This not theoretical. This is application. We are making it happen. I think thats what our colleagues need to recognize, change has happened for the better, allowing us to be table to be more responsible as we access our resources but to do so in a way that allows not only for jobs and opportunities for alaskans but to address the National Security insider the senator raised, to address the environment environmental concerns, to address our Energy Security needs and to do so in a manner that allows us to lead in the United States, not only for a resource we want but in a way that allows for our innovation, our really pioneering in an area is recognized i thank those that have joined us. I want to acknowledge you, governor walker, for remaining through the duringation duration, you and Lieutenant Governor, making sure this conversation is heard loud and clearly enables us as alaskans to speak with even greater voice and greater clarity. So i thank you for your time. With that, ladies and gentlemen, we stand adjourned. Tomorrow hes expected to be in south korea where hell visit u. S. Troops at Camp Humphreys and address the countrys national assembly. Them he attends asiapacific cooperation meeting in vietnam. Later the association of southeast nations summit in the philippines. The house ways and Means Committee begins its work on the republicans tax reform plan today before sending to full house and votes. Watch live coverage starting noon eastern on cspan 2 and cspan. Org, live and radio app. This week President Trump is in asia. He will be visiting several countries including china. Ahead of his trip a former u. S. Ambassador to china talked about u. S. China relations and the significance of the Chinese CommunistParty Conference and an event hosted by the Williams Center in washington, d. C. All right. Were at 2 30 so well start now. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to Woodrow Wilson center for scholars. Welcome to those joining us live on webcast and cspan for this us