Transcripts For CSPAN3 Sexual Assault In The Armed Forces - Transfer Polices 20171031

Report sexual misconduct. The Defense Advisory Committee is tasked with bringing recommendations to the secretary of defense. And the Armed Services committee of congress. This is an hour and a half. Before we continue with our next panel, i would like miss gar vin to have the mike for a moment. During the break i had the opportunity to speak further with hannah. Who spoke to us before. And asked about her service dog that she had with her. And i apologize for not thinking to ask her while she was there. She authorized me to share. How much the service dog has aided in her recovery. And how important the dog is. And she authorized he to share she paid for the dog out of the pocket. And didnt have access to that as part of her recovery. And any formal way. And so i thought it was important for us to know that piece of information in light of how much it helped in her recovery. Thank you. Okay. Woer now going to begin with the briefing of on the department of defense of military services expedited transfer. Policy. We have quite the distinguished panel. The only person is miss mas si. Missing from our printed agenda. Have you determined how youre going to start . Ill juts start briefly here and probably go on down the row. Is that okay with folks . You have the mic. Greetings. Its nice to be here sdp see you again. Thank you for talking about expedited transfer. We are to give you a little bit of context for how expedited transfer came up in about 2011, the Sexual Assault Prevention Response Program had been was about four or five years old. And actually about six years old. And we had had lots of conversations we had fielded the cad ray of Sexual Assault response coordinators and to the field. We created a response system. But what we were finding is there were still significant gaps in what we could do to support victims as they went through the military justice process as well as the recovery process. So one of the things that kind of sparked additional focus on this problem was a secretary. And he went and had a conversation with a number of members of congress in the fall of 2011. And he asked what else could we do to push the program forward. What could we do to make a real difference. One of the first things that we were able to do was to create expedited transfer. We had heard that folks were coming forward. Making reports of Sexual Assault, but as you heard previously some of them were not able to move from a unit or get away from the individual that had sexually assaulted them. And from a clinical psychological standpoint i would tell you that the continued retramatization of having to be exposed to that person or people that impacted you in that horrific way prevents you from healing. It retards your healing process. When you are continue retraumatized. With this expedited transfer process we might be able to jump start. Or give people a chance. We as we we were having conversations with not only victims but also members on the mill they thought this was an important piece as well. We all came to the conclusion that this would be a helpful approach. So with me today is my senior policy advisor. Shes going to give you a little bit more of the details to the process. I want to say thank you so much for taking a look at this. We think of this as a one of the things thats really been help hflful for healing. And has evolved a bit over time since we have kicked it off in 2012. Thank you for inviting us to speak. I have been with the office. Keep your voice. Get the microphone closer. I dont project as well. I have been with the office since 2009. So i was responsible for putting together crafting the first expedited transfer guide. And so i will detail the history. Provide just some dates to what doctor already covered and get into a bit of detail of the policy. The first guidance was issued may 6. By the then under secretary stanly. The services were required to issue him guidance with following three criteria. There was a presumption of transferring a victim if there was a credible report. Ensure it wouldnt negatively impact the victims career. And authorizing an appeal to the first General Officer in the chain. First expedited transfer request was denied. Each military service by may 31 of 2011. There was a lot of congressional interest. There was a lot of discussion between the department and the hill. So kwently in addition to policies, crafted a dod wide policy. And this was issued on december 16, and later incorporated into perp innocent dod instruction. Updated march 2013. Congress passed its own version of mandate on the december 31, in for fy 2012. In that mandate it included 72 hour time frame. For making that decision onto approve or disapprove the expedited transfer and 72 hour appeal process. In january 18 a month after, the was issued and the news briefing at the pentagon. Secretary announced a transfer policy. He stated it would provide greater support for the victims of Sexual Assault. Giving protection from possible harassment and removing them from the proximity of the alleged perpetrator. In the this time they added transfer law by authorizing the transfer of the suspect. This was covered already in the so we didnt have to alter the policy. Let me turn to detailed policy. The intent behind the policy is not for safety. Its for situation where a victim feels safe and feels uncomfortable. So where the victim is in close proximity to the alleged perpetrator. This proceeding or wants to leave the location where the event occurred to stop triggering horrible memories. Victims are informed at the time they file the report. It is the victims choice and has to be initiated by a Service Member. Once submitted to the commander the commander has to take the time and date. He has 72 hours to respond. This the policy does establish presumption in favor of transferring the Service Member following credible report. And that credible report determination is made by the commander. With the advice. And the military criminal investigation. When reviewing all the evidence thats available at the time. If theres no credible report found the reasons for that decision must be documented. There is a misconception as to the presumption. The presumption is in favor of the transfer. Its not in favor of the exact location of the transfer. So the transfer could be permanent or temporary detail so the victim can recover. It could be outside the installation or outside the installation. A different duty location. There are a lot of allowed tonight shift instead of day shift. The suspect can be transferred instead of the victim. Also the necessity of the operational needs. If approved the transfer order shall include the Service Members dependent if accompanied. The military spouse. In most circumstances the transfer to a different installation should be complete within 30 days. It should be completed within a week. Again we say should because there are different details and circumstances that go along. Especially the dependent or military spouse. We mention already that the commander must act within 72 hours. If the commander disapproves that expedited transfer, it is the victims choice its not automatic its the choice whether to appeal. The victim wants to appeal that then the first flag or General Office has 72 hours to approve or disa prove. Military departments are required to make every reasonable effort to minimize disruption to normal career progression of Service Members. When authorized a transfer a commander has a enumerated list to review. I believe you have a hand out. Wtd list. I want to point out three of the criteria that has to be reviewed. One of them is whether a temporary transfer would need the Service Members need. And the operational needs of the unit. The availability of positions. Within other units on the installation. And the status of the investigation and potential impact in the investigation. And future disposition of the offense. After consultation with the investigating mcio. Service members requesting a transfer should be advised if the case is determined it should go to Court Marshall they may have to return for the proceeding. Also in that hand out number one, four additional areas of which Service Members have to be informed. One that i want to highlight is a potential impact of the transfer or reassignment on the investigation and case disposition or the initiation of other adverse action against the offender. Now, when the victim is transferred out, theres a warm hand off to the receiving commander. If the victim is still receiving Advocacy Services and the investigation or Legal Proceedings are ongoing. Now the reason why this is done is to facility the investigation. And to facility Additional Services for the victim. The losing commander with limit the status of the open investigation and the status of ongoing Legal Proceedings. Hand out number two that you have speaks to the commanders responsibility in the monthly Case Management group. For every adult Sexual Assault case that is on restricted report theres a group meeting. During that meeting, they review all Victim Services and also discuss direct system coordination. All parties come together including advocate ts, healthcare, investigators, law enforcement. Legal officer. And they have a discussion about the case. They discuss any challenges being experienced. Discuss any allegations of retaliation not only against the victim or Victim Advocate or responders. Or any other members to the case. They discuss expedited transfer, military protective orders, and any safety issues. Now the conducting the case are the original location have to call into the monthly meeting at the new location. As the legal officers. They provide updates on the progress or challenges with the investigation to the installation commander. In effort to facility any investigation issues. The case will stay on the agenda until all investigations Legal Proceedings are complete. And the victim has declined further services. In conclusion the ex3e dieted transfer program is a service favorably contributes to victims lives and recovery. Its difficult for victims to come forward. As the last survivor who spoke to us told us. This is always extremely challenging. Its amazing that people ever come forward and tell us such a horrific event that happened in their lives. It has been mandated by congress on two separate occasions. It has congressional interest and support. The Service Provide support for victims of Sexual Assault by protecting them from possible harassment and removing them from proximity to the perpetrator thank you. I look forward to addressing questions you may have. Well hold questions until the end of the everybody speaks. Thank you. Good afternoon. Im paul rosen. The director of navy Sexual Assault prevention and response branch. I have been in the role since 2013. As a civilian and prior to that in uniform. Im not going to be due licktive of what shea said. Ill talk about specifically about the importance to navy of the expedited transfer policy and progress. In addition to it being right thing. Its important for navy or sailor that suffered trama to get them both personally and professionally well. And so they can continue their career and continue to contribute to the service which hopefully they love. That we need them to do. We have found that the reasons that sailors request expedited transfer as indicated moving away from the subject of the report. We find people who request an expedited transfer to move closer to support infrastructure. Whether that be family or friends. And in some cases for specific support services depending where they were prior. Maybe worldwide somewhere and need to move somewhere nor Additional Support services. Policy has been in place for several yores as you were heard. We completed a review of our process to try to make sure its as good as it can be. And theres probably some minor peeks and tweaks well make to that. One specific policy piece in navy that is a little bit different is that in the request process if the request by the victim to make an expedited transfer is not approved by the Commanding Officer with the navy it automatically goes to the first flag officer. It doesnt require the victim to make another request. And theres the 72 hour time period for which that first flag officer then ultimately makes the decision to turn it down or approve it. So again without being due pliktive. I want to thank you again for inviting us to discuss this. And look forward to questions you have. Miss reed. Good afternoon. Im gail reed. I work at headquarters Sexual Assault prevention and response. One of the program and policy specialist. I have been with the Program Since 2011. I was on board when the policies were stood up and the marine core took on the the task of implementing the process. And have been supporting it since ta time. When the marine core looked at implementing the process it was important to us to keep the victims needs in mind, as well as to make sure it was a seemless process for the marine core transfers. We wanted them the marine getting a transfer to flow back into the normal process and not stand out anymore than necessary. So we took it upon yourself ourselves to work with the manpower management. And together we built a process where headquarters marine court serves as the lie ya son. The work with the victims who submit their request through and its all worked out autotheir location. It comes to the headquarters staff. We walk downstairs and hand the paper work to the manpower. And that in just flows right into our regular transfer process. There are only certain people in the manpower management that work those expedited transfers. So again were doing our utmost to ensure the victim is not pointed out or registered within their world. So that when the transfer happens it just looks on the record as a transfer. That was important to us. We have been very successful, we just went through another review of the the processes and released a new letter of instruction. We have included expedited transfer process in the precommand training with the commanders. To they are getting from headquarters what they is to look like. And rules and responsibilities whether they are receiving a victim. Or whether they are losing a victim. Because theres things they need know on both sides of the equation. So again i believe its been a successful process, our starks are very supportive at the fleet level. And we have support at the Headquarters Level. Ill be more than happy to answer questions. Thank you for the opportunity. Colonel prince. Good afternoon. I am the chief of the interpersonal selfdirected violence. Isdv. Within we are it is responsible for the strategic tr five types of violence. One being sexual violence. In the branch we have the air force Sexual Assault prevention and response office. So i have been with the program for all of three months officially. Although i have been engaged with the air force office for about a year. So again i wont ill try not to be repetitive. But our expedited transfer program has policy process and procedure that are codified primarily at the air force personal center assignment office. The air force Sexual Assault prevention and response and the air force Family Advocacy program. Three areas where we have regulation. Sdp the expedited transfer process is designed to meet the needs of the victim. Following an unrestricted report. Of a Sexual Assault while balancing Mission Requirements as a assessed by the chain of command. Additionally as part of a comprehensive and system based response capability for Sexual Assault vilkts and survivors, other agencies play a Critical Role in the execution of the expedited transfer program as it relates to victim advocacy. To inclut but not limited to physical and medical healthcare. Rigorous investigation from the office of special investigation, accountability by the military justice process. Facilitied by the judge core. A legal agency, and Mission Effectiveness and continuity from command leadership structure. Which is aided by counsel from a majority of the response agencies that i have listed. So very much systems based approach. The result is an expedited transfer program that has vertical and horizonal checks and balances to the air force office assesses the expedited transfer Program Using feed back. Survivor story and record reviews to improve the process. The air force focussed on insuring we have the ability to transition victims to locations where the victim feels safe and supported and continue the healing process. So transfers are by moou moving to a new location where in one of the assault. A recent improvement ensures the commander as you have heard and the sark are aware of the arrival of the airmen. And again based on feed back and review that we have done, this we ensure confidentiality is maintained. It awareness and ability to react appropriately in the event of victim requires Additional Services are support after arrival. So this policy change was published this month. Through the air force is committed to the smooth and orderly expedition of policy for both victims and alleged offenders. We support Victim Recovery by accessing as one of several options to facility an environment conducive for care and recovery. We ensure the program by ensuring the program is relevant, realistic and rooted in guidance. And were continuously reviewing the program at the Headquarters Level and work very diligently to abstain a culture of improvement. Were constantly making these assessments at all levels of the enterprise. We value feedback of all types and we use it especially wen we realize that they are most vulnerable. So thank you for the opportunity to speak to you this afternoon and i look forward to your questions. Elder styles. Good afternoon my name is lieutenant amanda styles im with the United States coast guard. I am an Assignment Coordinator at the Personnel Center. I oversee several rates for enlisted personnel. We focus on transfers of members whether it be normal pc s transfers or expedited transfer requests. Unlike the services the post guard is yew phoenix, the Personnel Center handles all expert requests. So all of those requests will come to the coast guard, to pc s and will be evaluated at that time for the appropriate offices. For the offs itll go to opm for the enlisted personnel itll go to epm. Upon a request of a expedited transfer, the sapper sit or the Sexual Assault preference or Crisis Intervention Team which is a lot like the cape Management Group referred to earlier will con fine. That includes the sark, the judge in charge, our leading office as well as a medical and senior representatives from the victims commands. Theyll meet to determine how to process that request. Theyll determine what area the victim has if the victim is making the request to transfer themselves or to have the alleged subject moved, that also can occur at the victims request. The victim will make their request to move, lets say they want to move to an area with a confirmed support network, mother, father, brother, sister as well as continuing to get these Recovery Services that they can get. The request to come to pc s within 72 hours, and the pc s will have two weeks to determine if we can approve their request. At that time, we have we will cut the orders, theyll have 7 days they have 7 days to execute those and they will be moved. Pc s does not make the notification for the receiving command that responsibility falls to the sapper sit to brief the incomes command of the situation. If there is a denial of that request, again like the dod it will go to the next flag officer and forwarded on to p. C. S. , to our flag for adjudication of that case at that time. We find that we want to provide the most career progression for the member as well as balancing the needs of the service. We find that we have had very good success in getting the Member Services and often we engage with the we will reengage with the sark to confirm the member is receiving the services they need and for the best possible outcome of this. I look forward to your questions. Thank you. Miss massy. Hi, im laura massy im the policy branch chief for the department of Sexual Assault and preference office. Ive been in this position since 2015. Overall the armys policy mirrors the d. O. D. Policy already briefed by sap pro but i want to take the opportunity to share with you our procedures that are specific to the army. Our Service Specific expedited policy is contained with an Army Directive dated october 3rd, 2011. There are annual military personal messages or mil pers that on february of 2017. It is also the armys policy that there is a presumption and favor of transfer or reassignment of a Sexual Assault victim at his or her request following a credible report of Sexual Assault. A report of Sexual Assault is credited when a commander, the title of above after receiving evidence of the leading officer concludes there are reasonable grounds to believe a Sexual Assault has been committed against the person requesting the transfer or reassignment. A transfer or reassignment includes but not limited to the victims temporary or permanent movement within the same battalion or agree brigade, to a union on the same or a unit in a different location. A transfer reassignment might inagain provisions to perform their inactive duty on the weekend or at different times from a subject or a different unit in the home dwelling location. When a victim files an unrestricted part the coordinator or sark or the Victim Advocate, va will notify them of their ability to request an expedited transfer. When a victim filed a strict for report theyll be notified that the process during their professional training. A soldier must initiate the transfer request in writing on an Army Personnel action form, a za4187 and commit the request to their Commanding Officer. The Commanding Officer will document the date and time its received and within 72 hours from the time of transfer the commander and chain of command must provide the decision providing the soldiers request. The moves that do not cross Army Commands and Service Commands is the lowest level commander exercising authority over both the losing and gaining union. The Disapproval Authority is the first General Officer or Senior Executive service, g. O. S. C. S. In the shouldoldiers chain of command. The Approval Authority for local moves that do cross the acome, d. A. S. S. Moves is is the Senior Commander installation provided that the go is a Commanding Officer. Decision by the g. O. Must be made within 72 hours, again. The commanding general of the Human Resources command has assignment authorities to execute p. C. S. Moves for the victims of Sexual Assault. Commanding endorsement for an expedited transfer involving a p. C. S. Moved is sent to h. O. C. And given a case number and equipment and a statement from the soldier explaining why theyre requesting a move. The commander will include any recommendation that they consulted with a Legal Adviser and believe there is a credible report of Sexual Assault that a local move was considered, the victim was informed of any potential impact of the move on investigation, the victim may have to return for prosecution, future disposition of the allegation or potential prosecution or other adverse action that may be elicited from the offender. Reasonably foreseeable Career Impacts and any other possible outcomes that can come from granting such request. They also state the soldier understands the selection of a permanent change of station does not guarantee the station of choice and they believe the reassignment is in the best interest of the soldier and the organization. Recommendations for p. C. S. Disapproval of a report requires endorsement with justification. Normally a majoring general is the disapproval sthort. A victim may request p. C. S. Locations as part of their expedited transfer request. P. C. S. Transfers are made to a valued requirement in the United States and in accordance with the needs of the army. However due to the size of the army, the army has latitude to grant soldier replacement request. H. C. O. C. Has such as infantry, field artillery, military police, h. R. C. Is more likely to honor the request. It becomes difficult to honor request with low density m. O. C. s such as a parachute rigger. Since the policy went into effect six years ago more victims have been transferred to if the hood than any other location of the department in the army. In closing the army victims of Sexual Assault may not wish to remain in their current United States or organizations after the Sexual Assaults incident. Requiring a soldier to remain in that function may affect their well being as well as the unit and the organization. The victims request for transfer or reassignment is an important component to a leaders response to a credible all right of a Sexual Assault. Thank you. I look forward to answering your questions. Plenty of times for questions. Ill start off. I have a question and id like for each branch of service to answer this question so that we can get the perspective from all the services. Could you tell us the effect of the transfer on the victim participation in the military Justice System . The victim care and services . And do you have any data on the retention of those transfer victims in each branch of service . Okay, on behalf of navy then, the effect on the victim within the military Justice System, i believe, sir is one over the things youve asked. And i dont have specific statistics that would indicate participation by an expedited transfer victim as a percentage of the whole versus a victims participation without. So, that would be something that if interested wed have to go back and see if we can grab. Anecdotely there doesnt appear to be there isnt anything were aware of that indicates a gap in the process, any more so that wed find in a nonexpedited transfer victim. So, if i may so that everybody can we can maybe give you a preview of what data will say when we come back and talk to you in january. Our data right now says folks that receive an ex possession indicted transfer participate in the Justice System just about the same rate as folks that dont receive an expedited transfer. But the exact numbers and data and what each service picture will look like will be coming to you when we come back and see you in january. Thank you, sir. Sir, i think you also asked about the support system for expedited support victims. Yeah victims care and systems. We have no indication that the expedited transfer, victims or services and care is any different than any unrestricted reporting victim. Theres nothing we see that would indicate that. And also the retention . Do we have any idea of the retention . We just began looking at that in navy because we did a look at our process. Because of the fact that the policy is relatively new, theres not a tremendous amount of running time to determine whether we see higher or lower retention than we would for either unrestricted reporting victims who dont report expedited transfer versus sailors who dont blake a report of Sexual Assault at all. Its something were continuing to pursue since we have a little run time behind us. But at this pointofany data to provide to you. That would be the same with the marine corp with regard to the retention data. The impact on services with regard to Victim Services and support. One over the things we look at very closely within the sarks before the request will come to us, and once it does come through us, we are very cognizant of what services that are needed and we make sure that the locations manpower management is cognizant of what is where. So our goal is to make sure they are transferred to a location that has the needed support services that are available to them. We specifically could not, you know, even if a victim would request like an ini or a reserve unit sitting in a remote location, even throe it might be near a report system, we would have a conversation with the sark to go through how damaging that could be, toub in an to be in an isolated location working in a small unit, we would try to redirect their preference to a location where taid get better somebody and have the facilities around them. Its a team effort on our part to ensure that if the victim is still in the process and wanting advocacy, that they get place there had a location where they can get that care and support. Yes, sir, thank you for that. So similar to my colleagues here, i dont have any data either on the retention aspect of your question. In terms of victim care and services, that is one of the considerations that we expect the commanders to discuss with the victim when they are requesting that expedited transfer. And i also believe i mentioned in my remarks that a new guidance memo was published this last week which allows the air force to notify that gaining commander and sark. So the hope there is that there will be even more discussion and analysis of what is available in the local area to support that victim when prior to transferring to the new location. And in terms of the data on victim in the military Justice System, i know that datas pending, were collecting that to give to you all a little later. But i would just have to say these are active duty members and i know that the Justice System can certainly connect and reach out and touch them at all times, from the victims perspective we have not found anything changes in their ability to participate or not participate in the system. Thank you. Like my colleagues, i dont have any data about the retention or the military Justice System, their participation. I will say when we look at confirmed support network in their memo that is submitted to p. C. S. It has a section for medical support services requested at that time, as well as confirmed support network. We want to ensure the victims are getting the best possible services where theyre going, as well as also providing that emotional support system to where they may be p. C. S. Ing too. And also like my colleaguesofdata on the retention nor the specifics on the participation in the military Justice System. Noted that is one of the the things that the commander discuss with the victims, the possibility they will have to travel back to participate. As far as the support system, as i eluded to, especially our high density m. O. C. s, first they look at making sure theres services at the location. The government provided services that were eluded to like my colleague in the marine corp. Then a lot of times because there are multiple locations they can look at the request of the soldier and see if they have that family or friend support network nearby so they are able to provide that, sort not only the victim care but the support on the outside as well. Im glad you asked that question about retention. It is a Research Study to do and we are doing that research. I dont think ill have anything for you in january but we are looking at a number of different sources to get after that. Weve funded some research to understand exactly how that works. As you know theres no identifier in the personnel system to say that youre a victim of Sexual Assault or not. That means that lines up with the folks we have on file in the Sexual Assault database, and then i have to merry that up with people who have been separated. Then, in addition to that we also have to know whether or not to know that thats to give you a context wed have to know the normal separation rate for folks so you can see whether or not separation is higher or lower for folks that have experienced Sexual Assault or participated in the transfer program. So, its not a press the button and watch it print. I actually believe retention is an important thing. All branchs we care about retention. But if someone is sexually assaulted and close to leave and not have a career in our military because of Sexual Assault. Theres also going to be a recruiter out there but not a positive one for the military. So how do we take care of the victims, if we retain them and do positive thing for them thats great. But we need the numbers. Sir, i wanted to add to that, when the victim is transferred there is that notification to that commander. In that discussion on the monthly meeting they talk about what ever accesses to services the victim wants. Whether its medical, Mental Health. If theyre having difficulty getting into the Mental Health clinic thats something that can be facilitated to a nearby facility. But that monthly check is to help to identify whats not working for the victim even when theyre transferring. Id like to heard from each of the Service Representatives whether or not there is any method in place that you adopted to access from the respecifpers of Service Person requesting transfer, how they think the system is working. When they get to the new commands do they feel they are arriving without any stigma under the circumstances which they were transferred . Do they view the services that theyre receiving of services equal to or better than the services that might have been available from the location their transferring from . We have foreseen the very similar top down directors that have come from higher headquarters as to what have been done . How do you pressure your views on the people that you are trying to take care of . So, one over the things well make sure that the committee gets is the results of our force wide survey that asks the very questions that you just did. Of the folks that receive the force wide survey and experience the Sexual Assault and receive an expedited transfer, we have rates of at least how well that worked for them for on a number of different variables. Rather than going into great detail right now well make sure you get the results of those. A force wide survey called, the workplace. As well as a military injustice survey. And so, well make sure the committee gets that data. Responses . They are the Justice Experience survey is an anonymous survey. The workplace agenda and work survey is confidential survey. I have a followup, do you have a higher responsory . Yeah, the Response Rate is usually between 29 and 30 . But its randomized strike that tied sample so its good and reliable and representative of the entire source and generalize bl to the entire force. I have been looking at ways to boast the response wait and it only represents about 150 or so victims this last year. The first time we did it was 2 years ago and only 200 folks responded back to us. So, at the end of the day im sorry. How does that translate into a Response Rate if. Ofthat prejudicial off the top of my head butky tell you its fairly low. Its a convenient sample of folks that completed the justice process. Again, more information coming to you. Just to make sure i understand. You have prescribed the feedback process, is that for all services which you identify as identical for all services . Yes. The Workplace Survey is force wide so it generate representative numbers for the d. O. D. As a whole. Keep in mind the smaller categories you go into marks as area of priest because it is a representative sample. Some categories were not able to report out by every service but we can give you the d. O. D. Experience as a whole. Several of you indicated that the expedited transfer can be both for the victim and the alleged perpetrator, is that true for all of the services . To clarify, sir, policy applies to victims that make a report of Sexual Assault. For the good order and discipline of any unit the congressmani congressman Commanding Officer can move its not a request by the subject though. You know what the percentage is wen these types of allegations are made as to whether theres a transfer of the alleged victim or the alleged perpetrator . No, sir, i do not for navy. And when an alleged perpetrator is transferred is someone innovative at that new location of why the transfer has occurred . Again speaking on behalf of navy we dont have a policy per perez per se that would enable a person of Sexual Assault to be transferred. Typically if theyre moved out of that unit its probably from a squad rant to a wing level, potentially if theres an investigation and adjudication ongoing thats not necessarily somebody that the navy would transfer anyway. With several branchs i thought did say you could transfer the suspect. Id like to know the answer to judge waltons question would the receiving facility and the suspect know the reason why . Just to clarify its required by law. In the end of april 2012, the transfer for the victim, and the victim initiated within 72hour time frame. With the suspect it came out in 14. Its not for pun tifr reasons it states thats its im sorry its for . Good order and discipline. Both types of transfers are required by law. Does anybody have any statistics on how often thats done . Yes, we do. And we can provide it. Several hundred cases of expedited transfers happens every year. The numbers that are declined are very small i dont have the top numbers off the top of my head. The reason we track is because the subject was removed instead. Again i want to follow up, whether its being said for the good of the order, its still a suspect being transferred presumably where the complainant doesnt want to be, elects not to, so is it receiving institution told the underlying reason for the good of the order that this person is being transferred . For the marine corp theres a requirement for the commanders to be reviewing all inbound personnel. If there is a Sexual Assault related incident it would be on that record. So, its a protocol that is followed for any inbound transfer and they should be annotating. It would be an knannotated. I would concur the commanders have that discipline and they are probably maintaining control of the alleged offender or the alleged subject. But in any event, the commanders would be on that marines record and the commander would have eyes on that. Is the policy any different for any other branchs . For the air force i would have to confirm with my colleagues because im a little new at this. So to answer that specific question to whether the gaining command is notified of the circumstances surrounding the actual offender. Similar to my colleague here, any inbound airmen, certainly the commanders are looking into that persons record but i can certainly get back to the committee on that. And there was question, so yes. The air force, the alleged offender do have the opportunity for that expedited transfer. I can say though that the receiving Sexual Assault response coordinator the sark will not be a participate on the alleged offender aspect of the transfer because they are advocates for the victim. If i might clarify, thank you for bringing that up. Yes, we do not, our program at the heart attacks Marine Corp Headquarters marine corp we are not involved in any movement of the alleged offender. We do not clarify as a transfer its over to the Commanders Office for discipline. And its a marine corp move if thats the direction the commander opts to take. Go ahead and finish up with the last two branchs. For the coast guard that is something that is handledism we have the alleged subject moved. We have policies in place. Usually its done through the legal channels and we try to place the alleged subject within the same jurisdiction area. So, lets say the incident occurs in miami were going to try to keep that person somewhere within florida in order to allow the case to continue. The alleged subject has to be offered the alleged opportunity to continue to progress in their career, to be serving in a public area and, you know with oversight. The number of people that know which is limited to the senior command officials. And for the army it is very similar as well. The commander can decide to move a subject, often does not for the purpose of the judicial process. However, all subject are their personnel files are flagged. So, if a subject is moved that flag would be in their file for the new companyi command team t see that they are a subject. On that, i want to make sure i understand what it is that the new command has as information about the reason for the suspect being transferred. I appreciate its delegate, the investigation may be new. By definition it was a of complaint. Tltd not be it would not be something thought necessary for the good order and discipline in the military. Thats a generic category. If the receiving command see here theres a flag on the file, theyve been transferred for good order and discipline, they dont have some idea even though its been adjudicated, you have to protect the rights of the victim and the accused, do they have information at least that alerts them that there may have been this allegation . If for no other reason make sure theyre not sending them to another location where there could be another victim. I think thats the level of detail theyre trying to get our hands on. Just to have a stamp to say theyre being sent out for good order and discipline of the military and theres a flag on that, that allows any number of emphasis that can be drawn. So let me i cannot answer to the services as to what policies they have. Let me provide the committee a bit of context. My former life i was an air force officer, special criminal investigator. While this policy didnt exist while i was a criminal investigator. I will tell you that when a criminal investigation happens the suspect is put on some sort of administrative hold, flag or something along those lines. This is so the suspect cant initiate a move, go to school or retire or separate. The second thing is that, command is regularly briefed about the status of a criminal investigation. And so a move like this at the end of the drill i will tell you is that the staff judge advocates, the defense attorneys, the criminal investigators all are going to have dips on dibs on where the accused is going to be. The person isnt just picked up and moved off to a system somewhere. The person is part of a subject of an active criminal investigation. Its not as someones going to turn up in your unit and youd not know the person is under investigation because there person is going to be going through justice proceeding or things along those lines. So, allow us to connect the dots for you on what the policy say in each of those services but thats the context. Very helpful. Under investigation for Sexual Assault or under investigation for the 140 articles of the military of justice. Thats correct. Well have to follow up on that. And to follow up on that, there any i understand its for good order and discipline, but, but for them being a subject of a sex assault investigation theres no other reason for them to be moved for good order and discipline. So, my question is do they get is there an appeals process for them . Also, the followup to that is how are the military defense bars responding to suspect moves . Are they filing motions for relief for unlawful pretrial, unlawful pretrial treatment . Are they seeking mason credit . Do we know if theres any impact on the military Justice System . Ill give you a very respectful, i dont know im not an attorney. Id offer to you those are good questions for the followup attorneys for some of those. In the law i can tell you that there is no provision that i know of that allows a commander to move a suspect that are accused of a Sexual Assault of any kind of relief or anything because its not a result of the legal determination. Again, the comment is very e police sit its for the good order and discipline within the unit. Youd have to follow up with the staff judge add voeks, sp cs and defense counsel. I have a question that seems to me people cover under nap, f. A. P. Somebody who has covered under f. A. P. Is the victim of Sexual Assault what revenues are available to them . General katherine about here tuesday to answer your question on that. So anybody who falls under that is not covered ourn the services you get. Under the program yes. If i stats from the navy, air force, marines, coast guard as far as expedited transfers would not cover family members . Right. But the statute doesnt make a distinction . Does the statute makes a distinction. Its just refers to so theoretically it should be similar on to the other side. Yes, cathy has some answers for you. Id like to [inaudible]. I had a question, i noticed in looking at that data for 2016 there were 19 cases, i believe that was the right number, where the request by the victim for an expedited transfer was denied. Why are those requests denied typically . The we have all of the reasons why. Sometimes the person is undergoing a medical Evaluation Board and that locks them out of being age to be moved. Sometimes the accused is moved instead. Sometimes its not a credible report and theres a couple other categories i dont remember off the top of my head. For the cases where its determined the report was not credible, do you have any data or anecdotal information on the impact of the victims credibility at trial . I do not. So freely and voluntarior ex attorney saying you put in under true and it was ze nighed wasnt it. Yes, it was. It was denied because your commander and the military police found that there was not credible information. True. Its a possibility but because the numbers are so small, and in addition to that if there was no credible evidence at that time that might be going end up in an unfounded case that wouldnt necessarily go forward in the justice process. Thats my guess with knowing how the data works but again i cant answer directly for that. So an expedited transfer determination could have an impact on whether a case can be sheparded through the military Justice System. It certainly is possible. I think theyd have to look respectfully expedited transfer request im sorry . Okay expedited request come in at different times. They come in after theyve been Court Marshalled when the suspect is found not guilty. So depending on when the expedited transfer request come in is when theyre looking at the evidence before them. Just because theres not enough evidence finding a credible report at that moment does not mean theres not enough evidence coming in later on. And i understand that. My primary concern the impact on the victim, should that victim find him or herself on a wind at trial they be ze denied transportation because theres not enough evidence. There were only three cases out of about 700 some where a credible report they didnt move the person bauds there wasnt a credible report. Like i said its very very rare. If youd like to look at this, this is the data from the sapper report is here. And that information about the categories is on the last page before tab 6. You so see all the reasons why people didnt move. Lieutenant styles you mentioned in deciding this its also the needs of member bound with the needs of the services. And colonel prince you said you to meet the victim need while balancing the other needs. Does other reform has a mission need made into there . Yes, maam. Theyre look for the fight based on the reasons the request was made and the needs of the navy. We dont want to send someone whose an aviation technician to a service ship base where they cant work on aircraft. All those thing are looked at by na na navy command. Marines the same . Yes, we our victims are preferred to submit three desired location under managers expectations. Within manpower, their goal is to keep them within their m. O. S. And put them within a place theyre working with a monitor who has been tracking this marine throughout their career and that monitor is providing that overlook to make sure where theyre going is still going to move them forward in their career progression. They make every effort to move a marine out of their m. O. S. Or into a location that would not assist them moving forward. Army, youre so big you can always find a place right . I have a couple questions. One pretty simple. Its a followup to questions we asked earlier but i didnt hear this specific mentioned. And it probably ties into the retention rate. In this questionnaire thats being done, or survey is there and i heard said its not supposed to affect the career of the person being transferred. Is there a question in there about whether the person feels that its affected their career along the way . So, i cant break that out with an expedited transfer people who have taken an expedited transfer. No. In general i have a question that says that goes to the folks that said they experienced Sexual Assault in the past year. And the question is, is did you take any active steps to separate or did you think about separating. And that information is in our replace in general relation survey and i can provide that. It seems to me to be extremely important by the way, i want to thank you all extremely valuable for coming here it seems to me it will be important to know retention rates would affect whether they think their career was hurt. But it will seem to me to tie in whether they think theyre careers been affected would be extremely important for the expedited transfer request to know. It is. So, like i said i do have data that talk about their career. Vast majority of the folks that go through an expedited transfer say their experience with their living situation is about the same or better. With theyre support, their medical and Mental Healthcare is about the same or better. Their career progression, little less than the other things. But liektd well get you that data. The advantage is, is that the number of people in the expedited transfer bucket is about 700 folks every year, versus the several thousand people that may have experienced a Sexual Assault and not reported it and not gone through the process. So, as a result my numbers in the survey get a little fuzzy. And i have one totally unrelated question probably for mr. Rosen. The number of unrestricted reports requesting transfer in the navy are three times as twice as high as some of the other services, is that because of the nature of the navy people are on ships or do you know why its so much higher . Thats right, i dont. We run somewhere between 38 and 40 of our reports end up in expedited request. Some have to do with our nature particularly if theres a victim looking at Ongoing Services and support. If theyre on a ship thats getting ready to deploy or on deployment that may drive that number up but thats speculation on my part. Because its three times as high as the air force and more than twice as high as the army and 50 more than the marine corp. Does anybody have any ideas why that is . Miss cannon you wanted to ask a question . No i pass. Go you bring out the request by the nature of the complaint whether its penetrative or nonpenetrative offense, do we know . No. The air force does not. Does not or dont have it . Does not break it out. Okay army. To my knowledge, no. Coast guard. We do not maam. Not within this process, no. Navy . The same thing. From one side of the base to the other. I guess on an Aircraft Carrier not even off the boat. But the goal of this is to minimize the encounters between the victim and the alleged accuser. Do you have any data on how many times a person is not really geographically moved by considered transferred . I do in the very general sense. I have numbers about the how often that they go, they result in a p. C. S. Move and installation transfer versus basically a unit or duty transfer but i dont have anything back underneath that. Essentially there were 62 requests for unit or duty transfers, that would be kind of a p. C. A. Or across the base move or a different unit move. In 2016 there were 684 requests for installation transfers. So the victim decides what level they want to be transferred . Often times thats part of their request. Do you keep count as to is a transfer considered to be granted when a victim requests a p. C. S. Move and given basically a intrabase move . I dont think so, largely because if theyve requested a p. C. S. Move and that doesnt satisfy their need at that time, then thats a reason that they could appeal to the next higher the next General Office in the chain. Lieutenant styles i have a question for you at the coast guard. And i know the coast guard is not part of d. O. D. But the 72hour action sometiti line, did i heard yew correctly the Decision Making line the two weeks . Two weeks for us to make a decision thats what we read into the policy, but we find its more timely does the statute require that or is that d. O. D. Policy . Its upon request for us when we receive the actual request. Once it comes to p. C. S. We have up to two weeks to adjudicate their request. Sometimes it does take us time because we may have to go back to the command. Lets say we dont know where the support network is or we want to engage in the sark to find the best fit for the member. Most of the time were processing these requests within a few days. Youre office is part of the the postguard headquarters . We are generally located at the headquarters but we are our own unit. We fall under the Human Resources cg1. Im trying to understand the structure. If you ze deny, whose macommand making that decision and whose the flag officer . So, we have our own flag officer, and the next flag owner will make a recommendation. Lets say its a denial. Itll go to that victims next flag office. That request will send to p. C. S. , p. C. S. Will review it and make a determination at that time. Thank you. I very much appreciate having this data but obviously coast guard is not reflected in the data. So, a very simple question. Do we have the ability to get from you, from the coast guard similar data about expediting transfer numbers and denials . I think we provided the did i just miss it . There should be we had i believe its 18 in the attachments that were provided. And there was one instance of a denial that should have been annotated within there. That had to deal with an unrestricted report where the command was reviewing an investigation regarding the victims own misconduct at the time that was not related to the Sexual Assault. The victim was being processed from separated from the coast guard and the alleged perpetrator was a civilian who lived in michigan and the victim was receiving support services in florida. Thank you, i appreciate it. Major anderson you had your hand up too. Yes, my question is kind of personnel related. Most of you were helpful in describing your processes and procedures for processing these transfers. My question goes to im assuming everybody flags somebody if its an accused, yet whose going to be transferred. My question relates to how many people will have access to that information . Because, you say the commander is going to be notified, theyre getting someone as a result of an expedited transfer and theyve been accused of Sexual Assault. My experiences there may be other people who may have access to that information in the unit. This goes to how we maintain confidentiality and processes we have in place to ensure that that happens. So, for navy, to clarify we dont flag person flel records of subject on Sexual Assault investigations. The victims or the accusers, nobodys flags . Nobodys records are flags. So, if a Service Member is accused of a Sexual Assault and an investigation is ongoing, that command is responsible for ensuring that our Personnel Command is aware of that if that particular sailor is up at a certain time. Or the personnel demand is working on future orders because its their normal rotation date, it will be that command that contacts personal command to say put that person on hold until he take care of this issue and figure out what the outcome is going to be. I just want to clarify, at no time in the personnel system is a record flagged for a subject or victim ever. And i dont know if that answers your question about allow our process works. For you, i dont know about the rest of them. So, for the air force i said that i would get back to the committee i wasnt sure exactly what the gaining commander receives in terms of information about the alleged offender. But my office works closely with the air force Personnel Center. I can tell you the director of air force personnel system and one other person has access to information. So they keep a very close hold and very restricted to no more than two people. Okay. For the coast guard the files are not flagged for the victim or the alleged perpetrator. When you look in our personnel system which is p. C. S. Has control over, it only shows up as a p. C. S. Transfer within the system. Itll be a unit change and thatll be it for it. So far as the confidentiality of the case thats being briefed with the sapper set to the senior commissioner. Youre talking about your ceos of the unit have the knowledge. Maam, for the army the victim also is not flagged. As far as what the file looks like for the subject, i would have to get in touch with hrc and get more details for you. Im not aware of that. Marines. In the marines the victims are never flagged. Ill need to go back and get into details as far as who has access to those records. I believe there is again commander review, in order to i need to go back and get clarification as to who has access to those records. Id like to followup on that, does that mean for all of you, for example someone is the subject of a credible Sexual Assault allegation, theres nothing done for example with security clearance . That may be sir in navy thats different issue all together. What would be assigned or youre talking about as theyre a subject as an Ongoing Investigation . Yes. For navy it will be atypical for a subject to be moved anyway. That doesnt mean that they wouldnt have necessarily their clearance suspended or down armoured if they carry weapons, those thing are up to command. If their file is not flagged, allow is all this information exchanged and how is this accomplished . The individual is in the unit they were in when the accusations made okay so its the same demand . Uhhuh. Just to clarify, theres a process by which most of the military investigations formally notify a command that an individual is under investigation. That commanders then responsible for making determination as to special program access, army and anything thats going on, personal reliability program, all that kind of stuff. So thats different from flagging a record. For the alleged victim do we have any knowledge or data on the possible abuse this transfer program where they ask for an expedited transfer, basically just to get an assignment . And we talked so much about, its up to the commander to make these decisions, do you know what type of training we provide to that commander to assist him in making those decisions . So, the data with regard to making a false allegation to get an expedited transferofany direct i dont have any direct information, what i can tell you is the rates of each case is determined to be unfounded, are no different, really a percentage point or two than cases that receive or dont receive an expedited transfer. Thats some of the data ill be bringing with us in january so yall can see that. So, cases Going Forward in the system. What i do, i dont know if you remember or were awake last time when i was walking through the different water fall charts of how cases go forward, i can do that for cases that did not receive an expedited transfer versus cases that do. And you can see for yourself the percentage of cases in each of those categories where cases go forward or dont. And theyre really largely identical within a percentage point or two. Ill bring that back to you and you can make look into that for yourself. Miss garvey i know youve been trying to get in there for a bit. Thats okay. Did i heard you differently that a victim asked for a transfer but a different type of transfer was awarded would that be considered a denial . I think theyll be able to consider that Going Forward. I have a couple of cases in here, where theres two from the marine corp where they offered a p. C. A. Instead of a p. C. S. , in other words an across the base move versus an installation move. And theres one murder for air force where the victim was placed in a i do believe that if the victim theres nothing in our policy that says if you didnt get the request met that you could not go forward and ask for an appeal on that. Dofully any of branchs operator any other way on that. Thats the same thing for the air force. And you pointed out it was an aut mavg appeal when pointing out some differences . Right. The victim has the ability to submit a subsequent request to the first flag officer, that process is automatic in navy. And are you aware of the policy reason why the navy close to make that automatic . When we were implemented the guidance from o. S. D. We thought that was the right thing to do. I just want to follow up on chief mckinleys question about training. Because, ms. Reed you said you i believe recently imputed command training for your officers while theyre giving and receiving about the expedited transfers. Is the navy doing any training including the expedited issue . Yes, maam. Thats incorporated into our course. When they assume command, the triad, they also get a brief from their Sexual Assault coordinator that goes over their tool kit. So that training occurs at that point as well. Is that also the case then for the air force . Yes, maam, thats also the case for the air force. Training occurs at precommand training at air unit at Maxwell Air Force base for our commanders. In addition within 30 days the Sexual Assault response coordinators must provide additional training for commanders when they report to their base upon assumption of command. In addition to that when a c. O. G. Is convened theres additional Training Provided to the training includes . Expedited transfer, yes, maam. Same for coast guard . Maam id have to get back to you on that. And the army . Yes, they meet sark within the 30 days taking the command. So they meet with their sark and receive training. Maam, i just wanted to add that port of the d. O. D. Instructions, 495. 02 part of precommand train g is training on the expedited transfer. If i may follow up on the training part, its related to miss ran goo sis. Its related to both training, and then you had flagged in the materials we had received carding the transfers, the items that commander shall directly counsel Service Members about. And there are four things in small letters. The first one is recently foreseeable rear impacts. Im curious how commanders are trained on these pieces in order to directly counsel Service Members, particularly in light of the fact that were not sure we have data on Career Impact . So im just wondering its a twopart question. Generally how are commanders trained on these two things, and then a method of counseling, because thats the word thats used and specifically with regards to sub part a how thats done in light of were not sure we have data on the Career Impacts . I can tell you i cannot speak specifically to how its done because we only set the standards at the d. O. D. Level. I think the intent behind we wrote that policy was if victims were in a particular school how that would affect it. As victims are going through a criminal case moment and crisis moment and they want to leave the area, its up to commander to explain to them and maybe a slot in that school wont be available for sometime. Theres also victims in a narrow duty area, intelligence rules and things like that. There are only so many positions. If p. O. S. s out of cycle those positions are difficult. And if you have a spouse in that location their required duty area was difficult. That was the intent behind the policy. Somebody going through a crisis moment. Theyre talking to their victims advocate and going through the things they need. Somebody sits them down and say i know you expedite transfer i know youre going true this, this is the victims that impact the career. Some also have a duty station where they get a bonus for accepting that job. Any kind of impact on that bonus they now decide to leave, that was the intent behind that. In terms of specific training you only have the general training requirement. I think we have time for one last question. Judge griswold you havent had the chance to speak yet. I dont like the sown of my voice. We do. Let me just wrap up here with questions regarding training. You all said you get precommand training, presumption of command but no one has said whats the scope, length, quantity and quality of that training . The reason im asking is as a former judge advocate myself, id do a lot of war training for commanders and i was given all of 30 minutes and never saw them again. You can see where the curiosity comes from. So, youre right, theres an awful lot of training, particularly precommand they pack it in pretty tightly. Theres a Sexual Assault preference response mood yule. Part of that training is the expedited policy among many of the things in related programs we expect our officers to have. Theres the inbrief when consume command. Ill tell you to begin establishing that personal relationship with the Commanding Officer theyre the expert and resource. A Sexual Assault event in the unit is pretty unique. There will be commands that never experience one in the tenure officer and the larger commands may have several. We dont expect them to be offthe cuff experts but we do expect them to know what procedures to take immediately to support the victim and its an unrestricted report to begin the notification and to reach out to the resources, the sark or the Victim Advocate the staff judge advocate worth the experts to come in and advise them of what their responsibility are and allow to best execute them. So thats probably more than you wanted but the reality is youre right, theres a lot of information and sometime it needs to be just in time. If they need to know where to go to get it, it may be sufficient for their needs at that point. Just to summarize or paraphrase, the gist of the training is these are issues you might face, these are where you go to resource and staff that issue. It sound like thats part of it. Part of it will be an immediate understanding of what youre responsibility will be to a reporting victim. Thats something we expect them to walk away with and have that knowledge. I would concur with that. We conducted or precommander course corner stone for the marine corp. Its provided a 3hour window in which to provide training for them. It was shut down to an 1. 5 in this recent event. But they were afforded another opportunity to come back on monday. They recognized the hourandahalf wasnt how faring the time needed. I believe with respect to a commander needing training on how to address a marines career position thats outside of sapper. Thats a commanders role to be aware of who his or her marines are and facility them to progress forward in their career. That is outside of sappers window and its just part of their being a commander and its included in a policy as a reminder this is something you should take into consideration when you sit down with your victim who has requesting that transfer. Our sarks are wellversed wellto be able to again its building that resource brief. Its build a rapport and lock on with that resource so you know you have your Immediate Response and you know who your circle of support are to make sure that the services are continuous and relative. So, for the air force yes, we are challenged with time as well. So, weve invested in hiring curriculum design experts to help us figure out strategies that would take Adult Learning and put it into a small window of time, make sure all commanders can walk will be with the take away for them to at least get started. Theyll always have opportunities for that justintime training for the sarks. We do use application base for the scenario trains so they can have examples of what their roles and responsibility would be. And to provide information ahead of time so they walk out with flow charts and materials they can refer to at a later time. We are using these curriculum design experts to help us get the core information and training information that they need in a small amount of time. Thats the Continuous Improvement work we are doing with our training aspect for sark sap in between and especially or commanders. And relative to commanders being trained on career, i will say and if i can be subjective, im most proud of the air forces ability with Career Training and assessment development. Theres access to chiefen enlist enlisted managers who are well versed to make sure so they can reach out to the chief enlisted managers. We have if you thinkal managers, i talked about vertical integration. We have functional career managers at the unit level, at the major command level, at the Headquarters Level so that commander has a lot of resources to assist him or her in building that career path and helping to communicate the impact on the career. So i think the air force does a pretty good job with that. So, with the coast guard i cant specifically speak to the individual training because i dont have knowledge about that. The coast guard has a very active training regimen for all coasties to educate on this. And as far as the commanders that p. O. C. Provides, and as far as the commanders go toto ask question, my role is to