California indians dont have the same kind of public image as say a warrior on a horseback, so they are not as bad ass in the popular imagination as the plains indians. I love this image because that guy is pretty fierce. He has some feathers going on. He looks like he could do some damage to your horse herd or to you, so i like that well into the gold rush era these mounted livestock rustlers in the Central Valley were kind of bad, bad, bad. Stock rustling also offered indians opportunities to thrive in the interior. Population explosion of horses. An english visitor estimated to see 3000 wild horses in todays travel in 1840. A miner on the eve of the gold rush claim that in the Central Valley, the Central Valley contained a larger portion of wild horses than any other part of the world to the same extent. On the san joaquin river, bands from 200 to 2000. These herds in addition to providing a lucrative source of trade provided a basis of subsistence for california indians living in the interior. An abundant food source. They were an abundant food source. Probably not trading those wild horses, but you can rely on them by eating them. One newspaper reported in 1847 that from the north to the source of the san juan keaton river in the south, indians had become in their words so habituated to living on horse flesh, that it is the principal means of subsistence. Acorns and salmon fishing have been the mainstay, and now by the 1840s, we see in the San Joaquin Valley and interior part of california that horsemeat becomes a new staple. Livestock rating went handinhand with the fur trade. The many complaints made by california authorities about the Hudson Bay Company indicates they were engaged in fur trade within california and other Economic Activities. It is not surprising that california missionaries put Mission Indians to work at this lucrative pursuit as well. A river map to give you a sense of the extent of the Central Valley. This is the headwaters of the san joaquin river, the southernmost extent of the horse eating. This is the northernmost extent. The green central part of california is the great Central Valley of california where this livestock trading, horse eating, and fur trading will be taking place. The Sacramento San Joaquin Delta region was the finest trapping ground in california. The beaver population has not quite recovered from this era. The Sacramento San Joaquin Delta is this triangle of land right there bracketed in by the san joaquin and Sacramento Rivers. It abounded with beaver at the time and a type of river otter, to distinguish it from sea otters, which were the primary game of the russianamerican hudson bay for trade. California sea otters are amazing. They have one million hairs per square inch, so you can imagine what kind of fur could we get that could sell for a lot of money, the fur of an animal that has one million hairs per square inch will be worth a lot, right . Going after beaver and land otter is not the hot Economic Activity of sea otters. These big fur trading firms began to turn their attention to the not quite has awesome critters, the california beaver, not great as the otters. The people of the san Joaquin Sacramento delta ironically had no native technologies for fur trapping. You might have garnered from my comments about california that california has nice weather. In the Sacramento San Joaquin Delta region, youre talking about a change in temperature from winter to summer of like 40 degrees maybe. Its freezing and in the 50s in winter, and burning hot in the 90s in the summer, but in that narrow temperature variation you dont have the need for a lot of clothing, so california indians in all seasons largely went naked because you did not have to bundle up. There is no need to hunt beaver or catch an animal that has tons of hairs per square inch because your going to be naked because the weather is awesome in california, even better in southern california. 60s minimum in the wintertime. Anyhow, so they have no native technologies for dealing with furbearing animals. Sometimes they hunted beaver occasionally for food. Evidently beaver tail is a delicacy from a mainly canada. Nothing for turning for into clothing or anything. When they trap, which they can buy the 1820s under the authority of the spanish mission, they do so for the full purpose of obtaining trade goods. It is their only reason for trapping. They would not have done it otherwise. The spanish missionaries did not appreciate the new mexican traders efforts to induce indians to steal livestock i providing trade goods, but were not above paying trade goods to indians themselves in order to get indians to trap for them. These new mexican traders are ripping us off, scamming these indians by paying them in beads and cloth, and outrage upon the indians. Heres some cloth and beads, you want to trap . They are not really walking the walk. The Hudson Bay Company got in on this action. They sent brigades into california between 18281843. The chief brigade leader reported beaver is the common article of traffic on the coast. Although upwards of 1500 skins were collected from the natives and sold to ships at three dollars. Trade with those new mexican traders, we will pay the indians in trinkets, and they will bring us back something we trade for cash, which in a remote frontier area would have in a boom to any traitor. He affirms that the source of the skins was a party of indian trappers and the delta expanding our people while trapping at the junction of the rivers met several indians attached to the missions employed hunting beaver. The indians collect a few skins each which they barter for beads and wearing apparel. A british sea captain sailed his ship up the Sacramento River and noted that the indian trade in beaver skins for which Mission San Jose had emerged as a headquarters had been so successful with a little help from drought to leave the river and its tributaries devoid of beaver and otter. Those that remained he described as subpar quality. They had literally all been trapped out. This captain encountered indians below the American River on the sacramento below the American River, the missionaries had written passes that said these indians have our permission to do this trapping. They were given passes allowing them to leave Mission San Jose in the influence of the christian missionaries and spanish civilization to trade for first with socalled wild indians. Think about from the spanish missionaries perspective, please go back and be with the wild indians. That is how viable fur trapping would have been. These wild indians, neighbors, friends, family members, folks they knew before they came into the missions, their crew, so when Mission Indians left with these passes, they went home to engage in this trade throughout the 1820s and 1830s. Trappers from communities in the delta were good of their work. One american trapper, and you guys might recognize this name, he is kind of the king of them all, Jedediah Smith. Not to be confused of jedediah springfield. He was struck by the hostile reception that his trapping party received from indians along the river in 1828. This suggests to me these indian people immediately identify the party as an economic threat and understood the economic competition their presence would have presented to the indian trapping effort. Smith interpreted the indians were unwilling to accept his gifts as a result of a fear of strangers. Along one of the rivers, the indians were not so timid and scared of the white man that they were willing to let Jedediah Smith party trap the river without a fight. Outright violence broke out between the indians and Jedediah Smiths party as soon as his party attempted to set traps in the river. And when they returned to their traps the next morning, they realize their traps had been taken by the indians. He reported a good many had been taken by the indians, who show themselves in the opposite side of the river, so what could have been for the indian people along the river an unfortunate episode of poaching, it actually turned into a pretty good Economic Opportunity. They stole the traps and the beaver in them and frightened off the competition. That is just good business. A little threat to the competition. Of course making off with expensive metal traps, which the native people of north america did not work iron or steel themselves, so making off with steel traps would have been a huge economic advantage. The following year alexander macleod, the chief brigade leader noted that along one river, indians told traps and horses from a party. So again, traps and also horses. We will steal their traps and sell their horses. He reported that deserters from Jedediah Smiths party from the year before try to stick around and stay behind and do more trapping after thered disastrous encounter and ended up getting killed by indians. The indians were like you will not poach in our territory. These are not timid people who dont understand the motivations of these fur traders. Hudson bay Company Southern brigade leader noted in 1843 that indians along the river, and these were the guys to be afraid of, he noted those indians aimed to steal the traps for the sake of the beaver in them. He had this moment that ewers dealing the beaver because the beaver are valuable. Go figure. The vigorous defense of a trapping ground reflects the importance of indian trapping, which is notable given that neither the indians entered into the Mission System until 1834. Livestock rustling, running off the competition, getting the traps and beavers for themselves, this happen before any formal affiliation with a mission. They dont even need to be directed by the missionaries to do these things. As soon as they imagine an Economic Opportunity, they are seizing it and performing it independently. They were probably among the wild indians that Mission Indians were sent out to be when white settlers arrived in the Central Valley in the 1830s, they became another market for indian furs. Probably the most famous 19thcentury Californian John sutter, who was the proprietor of a colony, often traded goods in exchange for beaver, ottor, and other animals with furbearing skins. We need to bring back, what is that called, that fashion . The ascot. We need to bring back the ascot. A good look. He put himself in direct competition with the Hudson Bay Company, with Mission San Jose, and with a number of other settlers in the Central Valley as a buyer of indian furs. By the fall of 1841, only two years after he founded his colony, sutter claims, and he is notorious liar, claimed to be selling 3000 beaver pelts the year. Even if it is only half of that, his trapping crew was some 20 guys, right . The trapping seasons fall and early winter, so you can imagine 20 guys doing that kind of damage over a limited number of months, he was doing a prison business. Indian trappers for their part incorporated sutter into their own fur trade marketplace. They did not need to be told to go out and do this. Here is one more guy we can sell these things too. Along with the Hudson Bay Company and Mission San Jose, sutter became one buyer among many buyers, and they shopped their first round to find the best prices on the most desirable trait goods, cloth, beads, which functioned as currency in the Californian Indian economy. One village situated on the Sacramento River in the northern part of the delta became headquarters of the indian fur trade, where indian middlemen took first from trappers, some of them technically john sutters employees, and marketed then to whoever who could provide the best return. These guys are like we work for you. We will take your pay and sell our furs to somebody else who will pay as better, so you get paid on both ends. Sutters colony is a great case study of how indians in california made best use of economic possibilities afforded by colonialism. Fur trappers were one segment of the indian workforce, and several people worked at all kinds of tasks, you name it, and an indian was doing it. Adobe was pretty common throughout california and northern new mexico, the southwest, all built by indians. The entire place was a monument to the willingness of indians to engage in this Economic Activity. I dont want to overstate my case. There were some indians as there were in the Mission System who were less willing, who many observers described as being enslaved. Were they actual property are being worked as if they were slaves . It is not clear. Certainly not all indians affiliated with any aspect of the colonial california economy were doing this completely voluntarily, but what strikes me is how many were. Especially among cowboys and trappers. This is prestige work. Attended to be something that required coercion to get indian men to participate in. The most important trade good and trading with indians were the same as almost everywhere else in california, cloth, beads, especially wool and cotton calico, but knives, axes, fish hooks, needle, thread, flour. We talk about some commodities having elastic demand and others having inelastic demand. Everybody wants more clothing, right . In the case of the california indians, you want more beads because everybody wants more cash. These were always the price the indians demanded for their participation in this economy. While these goods seemed in some ways because they are metal or manufactured cloth, or in the case of beads, glass, they seem like a novel innovation in the california interior, but indians use them in ways that are culturally relevant and familiar. They did not have to reinvent the wheel. Take manufactured cloth, indian trappers took manufactured cloth in payment for all kinds of services, and took abundant amounts on credit from sutter. The cloth represented for Californian Indians many hours of labor saved for the indian crafts people would have to produce it by hand by splitting tree bark and grass stocks into fiber, spinning the fiber into thread, then hand weaving that thread into finish fabric. When you think about that and it makes sense why people did not wear too many clothes, you would take that opportunity. Other clothing was traditionally produced, some of which were spectacular. Like most huntergather societies in the world, they relied overwhelmingly on gathered vegetable resources. Women were the primary catheters in these societies and for the responsibility for sustaining and provisioning their community. Think about the convenience represented by not having to make your own fabric, not having to weave your own blankets. Manufactured cloth is an important timesaver, convenience product that would have had an immediate and noticeable effect on a persons weekly schedule. Among one village on the American River, wild duck feathers were a source of clothing and blankets. One visitor observed that the Women Weaving wild duck feather blankets and described it this way, the labor of making one of these blankets is immense. Captain sutter presented me with one that he assumed occupied six females four months in the making. If you can get a machine made blanket of calico cloth, you are saving a lot of time. Im going to say wool is probably the warmer option, but whatever it may be, you are saving yourself a tremendous amount of time. Think about the time that is freed up rather Economic Activity, sleeping, doing anything. Men also participated in cloth manufacturing, leaving feathers and rabbit skins into cloaks and blankets for ceremonies, cold weather in california, so in communities, access to manufactured cloth enabled men to enjoy enhanced status and prestige and women to enjoy enhanced status and prestige deriving from the economic responsibility of clothing your family and clothing for community members. While reaffirming this is what makes me a man or makes me a woman, right . Gender division of labor is important in Californian Indian societies. The idea you were fulfilling your duty as a man or a woman was instantly tied into these Economic Activities in not only is there a real economic in a fit to it, there is also reaffirmation of your culture inherent in it. Of course it makes you more economically important within your community, so not just being the guy that got paid in beads. They are valuable because they are currency and operate as cash and transactions between different indian societies, and also it is necessary to have a few beads in order to pay the bride price for marriage. You guys are familiar with ideas like dowry, taking your future wife out of her parents household and there will be less work happening in her parents household, so you have to not a for her, but reimburse her parents for losing the value of her labor. The only reason to have children is to get free labor. Mine still wont work unless they are threatened, but the reason to have children is for the free labor, so you have to have some beads on hand. If im losing my daughters Economic Activity, im not losing much, but if im losing her productivity, i want something good for it. The best thing you can get is cash. Everybody wants to get paid in cash. Central valley indian people and Californian Indian people in general favored a certain type of bead made from clamshell that could only be obtained along the northern californian coast. These disc shaped clamshell beads became the fundamental unit of currency in the Californian Indian economy. Then beginning in the mission era and extending well into the goal pressure era, european and American Traders introduce manufacture glass beads imported from europe. You go from one color and you can only get it if you trade really well, then all of a sudden every white person is i will pay you in beads, which costs nothing to the white folks bringing the beads into the transaction, but for indians, it is like i will pay you in bags of hundred dollar bills, which in california is like money following from heaven, right . They were introduced initially in california by the Hudson Bay Company, who conducted tradeoff of ships in San Francisco bay, and these beads become ubiquitous in Californian Indian communities, especially in the delta region long before they did any business with john sutter. So long before they literally lived alongside white people, they were seeking opportunities to get paid in these beads. Red and white beads where the colors most often demanded by indian consumers. White functioned as currency and read as ceremonial adornment. The ability to earn beads through work, especially of an exotic material like glass, would have been a tremendous economic asset. Unlike other indians you might trade with who will part with the beads begrudgingly, those beads are laden with value that reflects the effort into making them, but here you have these jerks, beads for everyone could be like, fools, i will take them. So they can start demanding only have the red ones because whites did not understand the value of the beads they were trading for. Whites imagine they were giving trinkets for viable things like beaver pelts, and the indians were like were giving away something we dont need in exchange for money from heaven, right . It elevates the status of indian men as marriage partners to have the connections to access these beads, not just for the value of the beads, but for the potential future beads their economic connections could provide. I have beads now and could have beads in the future as well. It will be a good provider, a rock star. Glass beads symbolize wealth, but also a mans connection to Economic Opportunity linked to Market Forces way beyond california. This is especially critical for indian communities from the 1830s forward because in 1833 a malaria epidemic swept through california. You have california as being very dry because of the droughts, and it can be very dry, but prior to the damming of the rivers in california and the introduction of livestock to california, california had more of a problem being too wet than to dry. Not because it had a lot of precipitation, but because the water table was so high. In a lowlying valley, the water is so close to the surfaced that a little bit of rain can turn any valley into a swamp, so malaria was endemic in California Well into the 20th century. Malaria sweeps through the Central Valley in 1833, and by some estimates killed some 75 of the indian population of the Central Valley in 1833, so you live in a society in which now there are 75 fewer marriage partners. How much harder will you have to compete for a limited pool of marriage partners . When white settlers begin moving into the central probably in large numbers in the 1840s, indian men faced an extra burden in trying to find marriage partners because white settlers are very attractive marriage partners for indian women. Affluent men are always going to have the advantage in a society in which a marriage partner is chosen in part based on his ability to provide. These white settlers who are the source of beads are way preferable to the indian guy who can earn the beads, so indian women find settler men attractive marriage partners. I also have a theory, and this is not borne out by anthropology, but california indian societies are generally, when they get married, they live with the husbands family. You are a woman and you get to get married to the guy and live with his motherinlaw until the end of time, but here are these white guys who showed up in california who dont have mothers. That is my theory. I also live with my motherinlaw. I love you, laura. Also as an economic situation, you want to have a man who is a good provider, and a woman is a good provider, too. Women are doing mostly economic work in any given indian community. Women can call the shots and they can have their pick of settlers or indian then. Affluent, powerful men have the advantage in the marriage market, and this is evident in the relationship where settler men took indian wives. In addition to the challenges posed by indian white intermarriage, the malaria epidemic of the early 1830s, and unrelated, the introduction of veneral and other diseases into the indian population through the Mission System, and the Competition Among men for marriage partners in the wake of this devastating demographic collapse. Add to that the traditional practice of polygymy, in which powerful wealthy indian men would take multiple wives. You can see people are going to be at each others throats trying to get wife. The need for indian men to distinguish themselves on the economic length field is more urgent than ever, so trade becomes an important survival strategy. Are more children going to be born in your community . Is your Community Going to go on . In 1846, informal census of the indian population in the Indian Valley showed communities most closely associated with the colony, that source of beads and other economic advantages, had in the words of the census taker an extraordinary abundance of women. Suggesting that women married into communities that had better access to Economic Opportunity. The continuing survival of indian communities beyond the mission era was in no small part due to indian skillful engagement with larger markets as workers in a growing and changing profitdriven economic system. Possibly the best example is one Indian Village on the Sacramento River. A large portion of people had edition into Mission San Jose in 1834. They are briefly there. The village remains because of this continually inhabited. Some indians went into Mission San Jose, but Mission San Jose was not around long enough to bring everyone into its orbit. Not all the indians were brought into the mission, right . There were a enough indians left behind to still function as a community, unlike in many other cases where a community would break up. Some people would break off and join their relatives and other communities. When Mission San Jose shut its doors in 1836 and the people filtered back into the interior of california, they founded the village still there, so this is a big deal. Their chief did not take on a spanish name. You will remember from reading about the Spanish Missions in california, all of these indian people who were baptized at the missions were given spanish names, so the fact that he is still going by an indian name into the 1840s shows you it still had a functioning community and political system that function during the mission era. Either he did not go into the mission or christianity left no impression on this man whatsoever, but Still Holding down the fort. This indicates a couple of things about the history that are important. They dont engage with the colonial economy out of desperation. This is still a place. It still has a chief. They are not being forced into this economic situation. The village, political structure are still in tact. When the colony was established and when they engage with sutter and go to work to trade, they do so as free agents. They position themselves not as employees, not as servants to sutter, but as economic partners. For his part, john sutter acknowledged this. They reoriented their village economy towards producing pickle salmon for export to hawaii mainly. I have a great image here of indian salmon fishing, a little washed out, but this is on the Sacramento River in 1854. You can see indians on the banks of the river and they have stretched a large net across the river to catch salmon spawning upstream. Not so much anymore because of the damming of the rivers and agriculture, but back in the day, california used to have an abundance of salmon. Sometimes you hear people, records of people who visited the Pacific Northwest in the 19th century who talk about you could walk across the river on the back of the salmon. You can imagine what these guys are netting. Using these and native manufacture nets and fishing wares, they take these huge catches of salmon and with a little instruction from sutter, who was no expert in pickling salmon, but mostly through their trial and error they master the techniques of preserving salmon in these barrels for export. One visitor in 1841 observe the following, the sacramento and its branches yield enormous salmon of good type. They killed the fishes with stones or spears, caught by oaks or nets stretched across the river. The fish after being salted is consumed in the sandwich islands, to where it is exported by the Hudson Bay Company. Ships come from new york to expressly load the salmon. Anybody here been to hawaii . There is a famous hawaiian dish, noted hawaiian delicacy of salmon. Salmon is not native to hawaii. How on earth did the hawaiians come up with salmon is one of their Signature Dishes . It is because of this trade in preserve salmon from california and the Pacific Northwest. Evidently it is a salmon salad mixed with ice. This becomes the villages principal Economic Activity. So much so that the entire village except and relocates 10 miles upriver to be closer to the colony and supplies of barrels and salt necessary for preserving their catch. There was a whole process. You had to drain off the water, drain off the salmon fluid, a whole process. Once that was done they would load their barrels onto sutters boats, then these boats manned by cruise of indian sailors would ferry the goods to San Francisco or san jose for export. This commerce was so important and made the economic position so strong, that sutter established a small port at the colony, so all of the critical exports, furs, hides, salmon, wheat went through the village. Throughout the mission era well into the present and through the gold rush into the early years of the gold rush, not as dependent, but in economic partner of the colony. Speaking of the gold rush, your main exposure up to this point has been its importance to the crisis over slavery in california entering the union as a free state in the compromise of 1850, but the gold rush is a major turning point. We go from this backwater colonial economy that depended on fur trapping to this incredibly populous wealthy state in which cash is literally coming out of the ground. So a lot of historians have suggested this is the end of when indians are economically important to california. They go from a survival part to ultimately be exterminated. One of my colleagues has recently published a book called american genocide about what he defines as a genocide against california indians that begins with the gold rush and persists to almost the end of the 19th century. The gold rush is seen as a big turning point, the beginning of the end for california indians. Historians are beginning to realize that the gold rush at initially does not materially change Indian Economic participation in the californian economy. Indians jumped right into coal mining by the tens of thousands in the first year of the gold rush. Gold is discovered in january 1848, announced in december 1848, the gold rush begins the spring of 1849. Between 18481849, tens of thousands of indian miners are in the gold mining regions in the Sierra Nevada foothills panning out millions of dollars gold from the california mines. Sutter for example found this to be a huge problem. Indians were so keen to get into the mines in 1848 that he recalled the indians could not be kept longer at work. They were impatient to run to the mines and other indians had informed him of the value, so i had to leave two thirds of my harvest in the field. Now beads arent going to do it anymore. I dont care how much calico cloth you are giving me. This is cash for everybody. We will go get it. They quickly learn the value of gold as they learn the value of anything as a commodity being exchanged in california, livestock, birds, salmon, whatever settlers wanted, indians were quick to make an opportunity in that commodity. They position themselves to take advantage of it by leaving their customary jobs for the mines. The first gold rush in california was truly an indian gold rush. Also add to this another lesserknown story of the California Gold rush, where we imagine the grizzled american miner with the long beard and pick and shovel, other than indians in the early years, miners were native hawaiians. There was a brisk trade in salmon with hawaii. They would abandon ship in San Francisco and head for the gold fields. And mexican miners coming up from sonora, and chilean miners who would abandon ship as sailors at the port in San Francisco and go into the gold fields. California indians were the vanguard of this. But the initial year or so of the gold rush was a highly international and not very american event, oddly enough, even though we associate the gold rush as as soon as the United States took over california, and all of a sudden there are all americans there. One historian, in considering the significance of california indian labor, has concluded the following surprising to many might be the fact that for about a century, a few thousand indians managed by small numbers of spaniards, mexicans, europeans, and americans sustained an economic revolution. This revolution made californias Industrial Development possible. I would go a step further and suggest that it was many more thousands of indians than the few thousand he suggested. They certainly did not need the management of whites to get involved in Economic Activity. Only the suggestion of Economic Opportunity. This turns, in some ways, the standard narrative of california indians on its head. I mentioned when i showed you the image of the mounted indian livestock trader on horseback, that sort of image of california indians as being docile, as being almost steamrolled by white settlers, by the Mission System. I feel like this turns that narrative about california indians on its head. Californias indian population, especially those touched by the mission, were not passive victims of colonialism and passive recipients of economic transformations in california. I am not going to deny that missionization and conquest and warfare, the reduction of disease, were not disruptive and sometimes devastating. Entire Indian Villages perished under these forces. But indian people made intelligent choices about their futures based on the new opportunities presented to them, even under dire circumstances, within the limits placed on them by these circumstances. Indians used economic changes and sometimes initiated economic changes to sustain themselves and their communities and preserve their independence during a time when that was increasingly harder to do every year. Questions . Thoughts or feelings . Yes maam. Give it a second, we have got the mic coming over. It is just interesting to hear you talk so much about their willingness and ability to participate in different economic adventures and whatever you might want to call it. We have been taught most of the time that they just got steamrolled into extinction, pretty much. How is it i dont know that was it really just violence or land hungriness on the part of white settlers, when they seemed to have such an economic mind and ability to adapt to situations that took them out of their homeland . Prof. Sousa i will speak to the california situation first. In california, it is literally violence. It is literally when ranchers, farmers, and gold miners are like, we dont want indians participating in the economy anymore, that we really see the tide turned permanently for Californias Indian population. The white gold miners do not appreciate the competition that indians present. There is sort of this interesting racial epithet that american gold miners used to describe indians. They called the indians in california diggers. They just dig with sticks, they dont do real Economic Activity. You can imagine the sense for whites that these people are inferior and they are mining gold and moving from place to place, gathering and digging. And we are kind of doing the same thing, and this is awkward and we dont like this competition. Then of course, livestock wrestling does not stop. So as more and more farmers and ranchers become established in central california, that becomes a huge problem. Unlike the spanish and mexicans, who imagined the indians to be a vital economic part of their society, americans in california are like, no, these folks are not people we see as being a permanent part of our future. They are much more willing to resort to wholesale murder to deter livestock theft. Elsewhere in north america, especially in places where the fur trade was an important part of the indian economy, like louisiana, like we read about earlier in the semester, throughout former new france, when that trade goes away, then the significance of indians to the overall survival of the region or Overall Economic prosperity goes away. Then especially when americans move in, it is like, these people are not part of our future, they are not economically necessary, but their land is. Good question, comment. Any others . She totally gets an a. [laughter] prof. Sousa shannon, go ahead. Im just wondering, you said that whenever they did the fur trade or would sell the fur, they would get three dollars for it. How much would that be now transferred into our time period . Prof. Sousa i was trying to do this earlier today when i talked about mules and horses being sold for 10. What is 10 in 1833 money in terms of 2017 money . I could not dig up anything that looked remotely accurate. Suffice to say, a lot more money. Folks were talking about Jedediah Smith or maybe Edward Belcher who talked about furs being sold for three dollars a pop. That is furs that have been traded for with indian trappers, collected by people like john sutter or Mission San Jose and then sold for three dollars to these ships. What john sutter or Mission San Jose are collecting is three dollars a skin. What indians are collecting is not three dollars a skin. This again is like when i talked about, im not trying to deny there were bad elements of this. This is one area where the indians were making the best out of the situation, snagging up all the Economic Opportunity they can, but at the end of the day, white settlers are profiting a lot more. Or the missions are profiting a lot more. I always imagined it like indians at the bottom of the economic food chain in this trade, always, so they are never getting the full value of what they are producing. But in some cases, in colonial california, would three dollars cash money have been as significant to Indian Traders as five pounds of beads . Maybe not, so maybe they were coming out ahead. But in terms of dollar value of things, the mission and john sutter and other buyers of indian furs are definitely making more money in terms of dollar value. Were there any groups of indians that realized they were getting gypped and not getting the full value of the furs and tried to take it into their hands . Prof. Sousa i did not have too much time to get into this, but there is a whole journal that sutter keeps that is full of his frustrations about being ripped off by indian trappers. He is like, look, i have extended these guys credit, they are all in debt to me hundreds of dollars. I am letting them borrow my traps and canoes. They are in debt to me, supposed to be bringing back furs to pay off debts, but everywhere i go they are selling them to this guy down the street and this guy up the road and that guy down the river. In one case, they even appear to be selling to the chief of a local Indian Village. He is getting ripped off and beaten at his own game by this indian chief, who is saying, i will take your furs, i can sell those. It is a constant problem for sutter. What that tells me is that the indians go, he does not pay very well, we could get paid better down the road. You can imagine the position they would be in. Sutter is going to give me five pounds of beads, so i will bring these furs to you if you bring me six. So bob smith down the street is like, that checks out. That is something that i think is often underappreciated about the native American History in north america, is that there is a popular stereotype that indians were sort of simple and living off the land and only taking what they needed. These people could drive a bargain, and drive a hard bargain. They could ruin somebody. Sutter this is not the only reason sutter was always on the edge of ruin but certainly not being able to get the furs in payment for the goods already extended on credit went a long way towards some of his economic misery. If i had all the time in the world to keep you guys hostage, i could tell you a little bit more. I was wondering when the furs of the beavers and otters ran out, what would happen to both the fur traders and native indians economy . Indians are depending on the furs for the beads and traders are depending on them for currency. So what would happen when they ultimately ran out of the furs . Prof. Sousa for a group like the Hudson Bay Company or the british fur trade company that sends brigades into california, it becomes a serious problem. They eventually stopped sending brigades because they were not getting enough furs for their efforts. You have to put together these guys, pay them, send foods and weapons and goods to trade with the indians. If the indians cannot bring enough furs, it is no longer profitable for the Hudson Bay Company. Ultimately, the Hudson Bay Company pulled back from that trade, but indians have tons of irons in the fire. There is no village that is like, trapping is all we do. We trap, we steal livestock, we fish, all kinds of side hustles. It ends up being more of a problem for the Hudson Bay Company and john sutter. Sutter is in a ton of debt and has contracted with various suppliers yes, i will pay you back but i will only pay in beaver skins or bushels of wheat. So sutter is in a worse predicament in some ways because if the beaver skins dont come, he is in violation of his contract. Whereas indians are like, the beaver did not work out, we can steal some livestock. Sometimes sutter buys the stolen livestock, sometimes they steal the livestock from sutter. It is a constant always working some kind of angle. That does not mean that things dont get tough, especially as more american settlers start to arrive in california, especially after the gold rush. What that starts to do is threaten the food level subsistence. If you cant go out and gather acorns without being assaulted by miners, if you can fish the streams because miners are dumping so much sand into the streams that it destroys the salmon run, then you are in a level of trouble that fur trapping cant fix. Then you dont eat. There are other ways that it becomes tough for indians, but the commodity stuff, the beaver, the livestock, any one of those things is not completely the only source of economic survival. We have got a contest here. Jordan first. Throughout history, there have been plenty of times of trading with indians. How can we focus on this time period of trading . Prof. Sousa i have the worst answer for this question. Do you remember when we talked about how historians always study who they are and where they are from . This is where i am from. If i could figure out a way to research and write about things that happened in the backyard of my childhood home 100 years ago, that is what i would have done. This is as close as i could get to literally studying where i come from. So yeah, my advisor, as i was bouncing dissertation topics off of him, said, all this history of the Cherokee Nation sounds great, but you have to ask yourself, do you really want to spend years of your life in oklahoma doing this research . So i thought. And he said, where do you want to go . You need to be willing to go to the place. I said, i always wanted to go to california. So that is how i came upon this topic. Then it got closer and closer and closer to where im from. Thats a terrible answer, right . I think its good. Prof. Sousa thank you. So the value of beaver fur to make an impact on the southeast region, like deer skin values . Prof. Sousa by the time that california becomes wrapped up in the fur trade, this is like the 1820s, 1830s, 1840s. Tradeuthwest deer skin is over. People still hunt deer. But that Huge International deer that powers entire colonies is pretty much over, yes. And you would never imagine that because, probably because deer were so drastically over hundred because they are such a nuisance in the southeast today, messing up your garden, hitting your car. That it . Thanksht, well, hey, very much for being here this evening. I hope you all have a wonderful weekend. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] we take you live now to petersburg, virginia talk to the Pamplin Historical Park civil war symposium. The theme is generals we love to hate. Leaders covered today include Union GeneralBenjamin Butler and Union General george mcclellan. The