Transcripts For CSPAN3 Census Modernization Efforts 20171019

The committee will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess at any time. Secretary ross is with us. Hell be joining us momentarily. I recognize myself for an Opening Statement, and then my friend from maryland. The census is constitutionally required. It is what ensures that every vote should be counted, every person should be counted. This is a Condition Precedent for accurate redistricting and accurate reapportionment. The census is not only important for purposes of constituting our government, its also important for apportioning the resources and service of our government. So the census is vitally important for a number of reasons. It is also imminently predictable. There are a few things that can foreseen, quite like the census. It happens every ten years, whether youre ready or not. So its incredibly important, beginning with the fundamental truth of counting every one of our fellow citizens. We know well in advance that its coming. So we cant complain we were caught offguard and we cant complain that we didnt see it. So we have a couple more years before we actually count everyone. But snow the time to make sure we are ready to count everyone with acts circumstances with security wand professionalism. Were all concerned with costs. Our fellow citizens are hearing about cuts in a number of areas and there is concern about defit . The debt. Cost is important, but its also very important that we get this done right, accurately, professionally, with security and in a fashion worthy of the worlds great democracy. What would be even worse than unexpect lid high costs is unexpectedly high costs coupled with less than full success. Well want to snake sure the census is a success. Well dont want to appropriate money on this committee. But we want to help make sure the right questions are asked in a timely fashion. So for secretary ross, i appreciate his time and i appreciate the time frankly that he has given our committee before today as well as his appearance today. We live in a country that is increasingly skeptical of whether or not we can get things done right. In a timely fashion and in a credible, responsible way. I think our country as a whole irrespective of the region in which you may live or your political ideation would appreciate a good news story. A story of how a Government Entity was prepared, efficient, and exceeded their expectations. So 2020 may seem like a long ways off. But its coming. And when it comes, were going to have to have counted 300 million plus people accurately. So i think time is of the essence even today. So with that, i would welcome all of our witnesses, especially secretary ross. And would yield the remainder of my time to my friend from North Carolina, the chairman of the subcommittee, mr. Meadows. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for your leadership on this particular issue. And as we go into this hearing today, i think its critically important that we all realize that while 2020 is a good ways off, we have already missed critical dates, critical testing, and critical implementation that should have already been done according to our own schedule that we have had in previous hearings of the i. T. Systems that are out there. There are some 43 i. T. Systems that need to be implemented. And yet today only four have actually been fully implemented. Another 31 are only partially done. And 18 have not been delivered in any form or fashion. And yet we continue to have hearings over and over and over again about the critical nature of making sure that we not only get these systems implemented, but tested and that we do end to end testing on a basis to make sure that cybersecurity, other fumbles do not happen. And yet here we are today on another hearing, and i am concerned that the focus will be on the 3 billion in terms of a budget shortfall and not on the other Critical Mission steps that have to be addressed. And so lets today focus not on the 3 billion, but on the Management Issues that must be done. And in doing so, were talking a whole lot about Disaster Relief in every other area. Today is a day that we need to Start Talking about Disaster Relief for what will be a disaster if we dont get on this today. And so, mr. Secretary, thank you for coming. For our second panel of witnesses, thank you for coming. Ive been informed by some of your staff, mr. Secretary, that you are on this and that you plan to make sure that this is not just a budgetary component, that it is a component that actually looks at the management procurement and otherwise. And i was pleasantly assured of that this morning. But we look forward to hearing more from you. I thank you, mr. Chairman, for your leadership. And as we get this right, i look forward for this to be a good story in the months and years to come. I yield back. The gentleman from North Carolina yields back. The gentleman from maryland is recognized. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. If there is one key point we can get across to those watching todays hearing, i believe it is simply this. The Census Bureau is dangerously underfunded and has been for years. And unless we do something about it right now, not yesterday, not today, but right this moment, this massive deficiency could imperil the fairness and accuracy of the census itself. Americans expect us to be able to do things right. And i think the chairman would agree with me. I think he just said it. We want to be effective and efficient in whatever we do. Mr. Meadows is right. Weve got to its not just a thing of money. Its a thing of operation and making sure that things are done properly. So this is not a partisan observation. Both progressives and conservatives agree that current budget projections are way, way, way, way, way too low. Eli leer, the president of the r street institute, a warning that the census is, quote, understaffed and underfunded, end of quote. And that, quote, america is in serious danger of the census going wrong. End of quote. Ladies and gentlemen, we cannot afford to allow that to happen. This is the United States of america. The exceptional nation. If we cannot count the 300 plus Million People who are in our country, i dont know how exceptional well be determined to be. Last month the conservative American Enterprise institute joined with a senator on budget and policy priorities in Warning Congress that current level of flat or near flat funding, quote, is unprecedented and would significantly undercut efforts to conduct an accurate survey, end of quote. They warned that, quote, shortchanging the census is pennywise and pound foolish. That it, quote, jeopardizes the bureaus ability to implement costeffective new technologies end of quote, and it, quote, could backfire, costing taxpayers more in the long run. End of quote. I say that we are better than that. Id like to show a few charts that illustrate this urgent problem. It wont show up on the screen, but members it will show up on your screens at your desks. First, as we all know, funding for Census Bureau is strictly increases dramatically in years eight through ten of each decade to accommodate the rampup in activities for the census in year ten. The first chart shows funding for the last four decades in inflation adjusted dollars. For the 1990 census, the bureau increased from 596 million to 3 billion over the last four years. For the 2000 census, it increased from 535 million to 6. 9 billion over this period. For the 2010 census it increased from 1. 1 billion to 8. 4 billion over this period. But what are we doing now . We are basically flatlining. The Trump Administration did not request a significant increase for 2018. You can see the same trends when you look at the budget from a percentage basis, which is what this next chart shows. The 1990 census had a massive increase in the last four years of the cycle. As did the 2000 census and the 2010 census. But here is where we are now. The administration is not on track to match past increases for 2020. If we use these historical trends to project forward total Census Bureau funding would be increasing over the next several years. But that is not what is happening. As this last chart shows, there is a shortfall of about 760 million when you compare what the administration is requesting to past trends. I say that we are better than that. Now Congress Shares part of the blame, no doubt about it. In 2012, congress insisted that the Census Bureau spend less on the 2020 census than it spent on the 2010 census. Congress refused to acknowledge or budget for two of the most significant and predictable drivers of Cost Increases that occur between each census inflation and population growth. Aggravating this problem even more, congress appropriated even less than the Census Bureau requested in every single year since 2012. Now some people will argue that the Census Bureau was supposed to save billions of dollars this time around by using new i. T. Innovations to reduce the number of workers it needs to hire and increase the number of people who submit their forms online. The problem is that when you starve the Census Bureau year after year after year, it cannot make the investments needed to implement these innovations. And this is exactly what happened. And im sure secretary ross will talk about that. As a former director of the Census Bureau, john thompson, who left his position this summer, explained to the Washington Post just this week, and i quote, had we been funded to do everything we asked for then, wed be much farther ahead, end of quote. He continued, quote, at this point, theyre going to have to go back and do some of it your way, with paper and pencil. End of quote. With paper and pencil. This is the exceptional nation. The one that has done the census over and over and over and over again. Secretary ross, i want to thank you for being here today and for Briefing Members of the Committee Last week. I understand you have limitations on your time, but mr. Secretary, we beg you to we have members im sure the chairman will emphasize this. We have members that are very interested in this subject. And i hope unless youre meeting with the president , i hope that you can spare us a few extra moments because we do want to get to members. As i close, i know you will get into this during your testimony, but i appreciate that as a result of your own teams review, youve also recommended that the administration increase its requests for 2018 by 187 million. And thank you for doing that, because so often we have secretaries come in and they dont say exactly what they need because they dont want to get people upset. But this is just too important. I commend you for taking this step, and i know you understand the importance of this issue as a former eenumerator yourself. However, i believe that even this request is far too low, too low. Did you hear me, secretary . Too low. Especially given the number of tests that have been canceled and extremely low number of hires at the moment. And so i know you are constrained in your current position. I was amazed to hear that the office of management and budget rejected your request for an additional 50 million for contingencies that are virtually certain to occur. Nevertheless, we have a responsibility under the constitution of the United States to ensure that the census is fund eded a kwatly, and thate census has the resources it needs to conduct a fair and accurate census. This should matter to each and every one of us because while we historically discuss minority and immigrant populations being undercounted, low income and Rural Communities are also at risk of being missed, particularly in a digital census. For this reason, yesterday i joined my colleague representative Carolyn Maloney who also chairs the congressional census caucus in introducing legislation to fund the bureau at 1. 935 billion this year. An amount that reflects budget projections from the bureaus fiscal year 2017 budget, and an extra 135 million for increases in the necessary funds for the ccap program. As i close, we must recognize the gravity of the situation we are facing. And mr. Chairman, i think. You have taken on this matter very, very seriously. As you said earlier, we had very informative meeting with the secretary. I think that helped to lay a foundation for this meeting. And i look forward to the testimony. And thank you very much for your indulgence. The gentleman from maryland yields back, we want to welcome you, mr. Secretary. Pursuant to committee rules, im going ask you to please stand and well administer the oath. If you raise your right hand, you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony youre to be give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so, help you god . Let the record reflect that the witness answered in the affirmative. You may take your seat, mr. Secretary. Your entire Opening Statement will be made part of the record. Youll have five minutes to summarize that. I want to say as mr. Cummings did, we appreciate the fact that there are other demands on your time, and we want to be good stewards on your time. The census is one of the unusual entities that is squarely within the jurisdiction of this committee. And there are lots of members that have questions. So what im going to ask of my colleagues on both sides is to exercise the selfrestraint of getting your questions done within five minutes. Im notoriously slow on the gavel because its hard to unlock the mist travel office world in five minutes. But im going to ask my colleagues to selfdiscipline to get it done within five minutes so everyone can have a chance to interact with you, and we can also be a good stewart of your time. With that, i would invite you to turn on the microphone and you are recognized for your Opening Statement. Thank you very much. Chairman gowdy, Ranking Member cummings, and members of the committee, thank you for your continuing support and your discerning oversight. Thank you also for allowing the Opening Statements to be read while i was reviewing some of the newly developed materials so i could comment on it myself. An efficient 2020 census that provides a full, fair and accurate count has been one of my highest priorities since being confirmed in february. I myself was an enumerator as i work midway through business school. And so i have a strong appreciation for the responsibilities and the unique challenges of counting everyone in the United States once every ten years. Any operation that must hire and manage half a million temporary employees with complex and new technological systems and with rigid completion dates is bound to be a difficult undertaking for even the most experienced managers. And its been clear to me from the beginning of my tenure that census would be one of the most challenging aspects of the entire commerce portfolio. I agree with the members of this committee. The census is the bedrock upon which we construct our system of democratic representation. It provides for apportionment, redistricting, and the distribution of hundreds of billions of dollars of federal funding. Accordingly, some of my first meetings as the newly confirmed secretary of commerce were with the commerce staff. In those meetings i sought to identify and then address the key issues faced by the dicennial census. My early concerns were heightened when only two months into my tenure, the Census Bureau suddenly announced a 40 cost overrun in one component, namely, the census Enterprise Data collection and process iin cedcap program. A critical part of the infrastructure for the 2020 census. In terms of the broader dicennial census, the Prior Administrations last life cycle cost estimate in the october 2015 was 12. 5 billion. When testifying before congress in june, i did not accept that figure. Instead, i vowed to return to congress after a thorough review with a vetted 2020 census life cycle cost that i could support. The product of that review is what brings me here today. As promised, we assembled a team of experts to conduct an independent review of the estimate. And they have come back with numbers i now stand behind as we continue our preparation for 2020. The team is comprised of Financial Management experts from the department of commerce, from the office of management and budget, former census employees, two former Technology Executives with the experience in rolling out complex systems, as well as other experts with extensive private sector experience. In conducting our review, we looked at the many concerns raised by the gao and members of congress, including those on this committee about the Census Bureaus cost estimates. Im aware of the funding statistics presented by Ranking Member cummings and can assure you that the 760 billion budget shortfall and its impact is encompassed within our new life cycle projections. You will hear testimony from both the gao and the commerce ig discussing their concerns with the prior 2015 life cycle cost estimate. For example, the gao estimated that the i. T. Budget would be at least 4. 8 billion. Our estimate is 4. 96 billion. So 160 million over the floor that the gao estimated would be the correct number rather than the previously used one. I share their concerns, and their testimony will underline the need and justification for this new life cycle cost estimate. Gao also points out that there are 43 Technology Systems involved in the 2018 end to end test. Only four of those systems had completed development and integration tests as of august 2017. And of the 39, a function of the has been deployed in the 2018 end to end test. But that is not yet true for the remaining 18. With so much still under development, the need for a contingency to address possible overruns seems selfevident. These are just a few examples. The ig provided another example regarding address canvassing. Where they found that it would cost at least three times the amount the Census Bureau estimated in 2015. We agree with that, and we have incorporated that into our numbers. On the whole, we found that the Prior Administration provided congress and the public with overly optimistic assessments of both the ease of implementing new technologies and the cost save, they would provide. These issues were undoubtedly compounded by initial appropriation constraints. Also, procurement decisions created a series of silos, most of which had a small firm as the general contractor and a number of major firms as subcontractors. A very complex structure. Worse yet, many segments were on a time and materials basis. And in my view, thats the most dangerous form of a contract. The Prior Administration also failed to follow basic Management Practices like using certified cost estimators and checking estimates against actual costs. We have addressed these values and corrected the record with this new life cycle cost estimate. We identified key areas where Census Programing would likely create costs above the 2015 estimate. Those include declining selfResponse Rates, increased public concerns about privacy and cybersecurity. High levels of mistrust of the federal government, tightening in the labor markets since 2010, development and integration of new technologies and the complex array of contractors and subcontractors. This leads us to now project a a revised life cycle of 15. 6 billion. The increase includes contingency funding of 1. 2 billion to address additional potential risks and associated challenges such as national disasters, potentially even lower selfResponse Rates. The difficult and cost of hiring 500,000 temporary workers in a tight labor market, and the complexity of developing and integrating multiple Information Technology innovations. Over 80 of the projected spending, over 80 will occur post 2018. So its a very backended expenditure as congressman cummings pointed out in his charts. In this rapid rampup in the future brings its own challenges to implementation and to cost control. Our 1. 2 billion reserve, a contingency of 10 of the post 2018 budget on top of the independent cost estimate level will be managed at the secretarial level and used only if unforeseen developments occur. A 10 contingency is commonplace in estimating complex private sector projects. Government tends not to set up reserves, but instead funds overruns in subsequent appropriation requests. Our new 15. 6 billion 2020 census life cycle cost estimate includes a request for a 187 million adjustment for fiscal year 2018. We are working with our house and Senate Appropriators on this request. These funds would allow us to make a significant course correction to keep crucial programs on track and provide much needed financial oversight and better management at the Census Bureau. The Census Bureau and the department of commerce will be held accountable to manage the 2020 census efficiently while maintaining the highest quality. The undersecretary for economic affairs, karen dunn kelly, has been in place since late august and has direct oversight over the 2020 census, the Census Bureau, and the bureau of economic analysis. She brings over three decades of Management Experience in the Financial Investment sector, with experience managing people, strategy, budgets, operations, public relations, and thought leadership across the globe. Seasoned and experienced Senior Management is also in place at the Census Bureau itself. Ron jarmin performing the nonexclusive duties and functions of the director of the u. S. Census bureau, and enrique llamas, performing the nonexclusive duties and functions of the Deputy Director and chief operating officer of the u. S. Census bureau are jointly leading the census, and each has nearly three decades of experience. In census. Commerce now conducts weekly 2020 census oversight reviews and will require metric tracking and Program Execution status on a realtime basis. Commerce also has monthly meetings with omb, Census Program managers, and commerces 2020 Leadership Team headed by undersecretary kelly to review issues related to the programs budget, scope, schedule, and risks. These management meetings include detailed reviews of the evolving budget and life cycle cost estimate for the 2020 census. The results of these meetings are reported directly to me by undersecretary kelly and her staff, and we maintain a free flow of access and information so that i can personally oversee the progress of the dicennial. We are now just 30 months away from the 2020 census. There is still many challenges ahead, and these Additional Resources i have described are urgently needed. But with the changes i have detailed and with the Additional Resources requested, i am confident we will have a full, fair, and accurate census. I look forward to working with this committee, your staff, and the rest of congress over the months and years to come, and i thank the committee for the opportunity to come before you today. I look forward to your requests. Thank you, mr. Secretary. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from tennessee, mr. Duncan. Well, thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, thank you for being with us. And i have two questions. Ill just ask them both so we get them in. Many of us who were here at the time of the last census received a lot of complaints about this American Community survey and that some privacy advocates were very critical, and our colleague ted poe has led a charge against this. He called that survey, quote, an unnecessary and completely unwarranted government intrusion, and he has led a charge to make that survey voluntary. And im wondering if you have look ed into that to see if you can make that survey a little less intrusive so we wont get as many complaints this time as we did the last time. And secondly, the second question i have is many states are going to be trying to do everything they can to make sure that they dont lose a member of congress or maybe that they pick up one. And many federal appropriations are based on population. Can you assure us that steps are being taken, or are you satisfied that things are being done so that no states can inflate their populations in those kinds of with the goal of getting more money or another congressional seat . Well, thank you. Those are two questions. Ill try to answer them in sequence. The American Community survey is one of the department of commerces most valuable data products, and its widely used in the Business Community to make decisions. A voluntary survey would have a negative effect on the reliability of the data. Especially for rural and small communities. At the same time, the Census Bureau continues to look for ways to reduce the burden on respondents, such as removing questions by using other data sources, including information that people have already provided to government in a different form. So were trying to reduce the scope of the burden as a means of making it easier for people. In terms of trying to assure that we really do count everyone, weve made a number of changes. First of all, the Communications Budget for the 2010 dicennial census was 350 million. And that included outreach to nonprimary English Speaking communities. We have increased that budget to 500 million this year or for 2020. And that equates to an inflation adjusted 420 million that would have been in 2010. So weve had a material step up in the Communications Budget. And in the 20102020 census, about half of that will go for our partnerships, the various faithbased and other Community Organizations that help us get to the more difficult to enumerate parts of the population. So we are keenly aware of the need for even greater effort than was used before. And finally, we have added internet response as an additional tool to make it more convenient for that portion of the population that likes to use internet. So weve made a number of very specific modifications, all of which we believe will lead to the end result of a more accurate and more complete census. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Gentleman yields back. The gentleman from maryland. [ inaudible ] mike. In 2012, the congress directed the bureau to spend less than the 2000 census. And i quote, not adjusting for inflation, end of quote. Since that time, congress has basically starved the bureau of funds and has appropriated less than the Census Bureau requested in every single fiscal year since 2012. This must have negatively affected the bureaus investments in new technologies. Is that right . In other words, did it affect your investment in new technologies . Sir . Well, the expenditures youre describing, if i understand it correctly, are the ones prior to the present period. And i have seen the chart, and it roughly parallels even though the distribution year by year isnt the same, the 2020 one roughly pair lems the expenditures for the 2010 census. The 2020 census is heavily back ended as were the prior ones. But its even more so because of the nature of the technological changes that were making. So if you would superimpose on your chart and in the supplemental material that i file after today, ill fill in the blank for you and show you how our projected budget for 2020 would compare both with the fluctuation, the amplitude in the prior ones, and youll see were coming to a significantly higher absolute level than they had been. Okay. In previous decades, this is the year, year eight when there are larger funding increases as the Census Bureau strictly ramps up towards census day. However, the Trump Administration did not seem to recognize this precedent earlier this year. The president requested only a 1. 8 increase in funding for the bureau in fiscal year 2018. Is that right . I believe so. And i believe that was based on the information he then had from the prior management of census. Well, you can you presented our committee with data last week showing that this level of funding is inadequate and could impair our ability to provide for a fair and accurate census. You are now requesting an additional 187 million to make up for what your department termed a, quote, shortfall, end of quote, in the budget request for fiscal year 2018. Is that figure correct . Yes, sir. I believe we do need 187 billion million more than was in. And omb supports that request, the s that right . Im sorry . And omb supports that request . Thats my understanding. You also informed the Committee Last week that you at the Commerce Department as well as the Census Bureau believe that you need more than that amount to fully be prepared for all eventualities. You asked for an additional 50 million to cover contingencies that almost certainly will occur. That correct . Yes, sir. But omb denied that request, is that right . For the contingencies . I dont know that they have taken a position on the overall life cycle costs. But our focus because of the urgency of the budget had been on getting their support for the immediate request for an additional appropriation. Do you know whether that came to the attention over mr. Mulvaney . Oh, its been brought to mr. Mulvaneys attention. Okay. By me. And i see im rung out of time. But do you know if the president is aware of your request for the additional 50 million . I have not personally spoken to the president about it. Last question. So what will happen if problems arise . How will you obtain funding to cover them . Well, we believe that the 187 billion will cover us through the fiscal year 2018. Were reasonably comfortable with that. The bigger risk comes after 2018 because thats when 80 plus percent of the money will be spent. All right. So 2018 we think is pretty high visibility, pretty well within hand. Its post that period that needs the big contingency. All right. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Gentleman yields back. Mr. Comer from kentucky. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The bureaus contracts im going to ask a question about the contracts, are set up as time and material contracts which means theyre limited incentives for contractors to control labor hours and costs. To your knowledge, what was the thinking behind this type of contract . I have no idea, sir. Ive been less worried about reexploring the past than about trying to make sure we get our arms around the future. What do you think the department can do to manage these contracts more effectively . Well, were interacting quite aggressively with the contractors, and thats about all that we really can do. Many of the contracts have very severe cancellation provisions, and would be very disruptive to cans at this stage in the game in any event. So i think we have to manage through the process pretty much with the existing group of contracting parties. But the intensity of interaction i can promise you is a lot more than it had been. Okay. One more quick question, mr. Secretary. With respect to i. T. , are you concerned that certain i. T. Products and systems may not be delivered in their final form and time for testing during the 2018 end to end test . So far as we can tell, the ones that are incomplete are reasonably unscheduled. But its always the last 10 thats the devil. Its just like in any contract, the devils in the details. Okay. Well, thank you, mr. Secretary. Its an honor to have you here. Im a big fan of yours when you were on cnbc over the years. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Gentleman yields back. Ms. Maloney. Thank you. First of all, secretary ross is from the great state and city of new york. And id like to welcome you here today and thank you for your for your public sirvegs thank you. In your comments, you seem voir dire committed to getting an accurate count, which is mandated in our constitution. But if you look at the spending levels, granted youre just new in this job, but for the census of for 2020, the spending the red line is way behind the prior censuses from 2010, 2000, 1990. Can you raise the whole thing . I cant site. You know what . Lets take it down and give him one of these. But this is a chart that we have on it, on the ratio of the census budget to year one of the decade. But in any event, as a businessman, its hard to achieve the results without spending. So i certainly support your spending requests of 187 million, and i think its a good start, but i dont think its good enough. You have a lot to catch up on. Several of the dress rehearsals were canceled. The Foreign Language rehearsals canceled. This is a major undertaking. Its one of the major undertakes of our country. And if we dont have a good census, you know we dont have good data for government policy or business policy. Policy. So i want to know what youre doing to address the immediate problem. And as i understand it, your increase of 187 million is basically for it work. But in your new life cycle estimate, you identified 7 major cost drivers. And the first two of the are all about Public Confidence, public response, and public concern. And these cost drivers can be addressed through education, and out reach and promotion of the census. And we have seen that before. The 1990 census was called failure because there was a declining Response Rate. In 200 the 2000 census the congress allocated more money and called for a paid advertising campaign. And for partnership out reach and all types of effort to build up participation. And both in 2000 and 2010 were sulk seszful in in connecti by getting the public Response Rate up, it was critical in keeping the expensive follow up methods that you have to do if theres an under count. So thats very important. Now i read recently in the Washington Post, that the add contract congressman dated for the 2020 hasnt been funded yet. And and the partnerships have not been fully fulled. This the census has to start early to be successful. The partnerships with communities like the naacp, like hispanics and Lgbt Community. You have to fill those contracts. And they havent been filled with people yet. As i understand. And nowhere in your testimony are your documents do you propose fully funding the ad contract as originally planned. Let alone increasing the contract to start addressing the later start in tracking these cost drivers that you identified in public out reach. So yesterday i am supporting your effort, mr. Secretary i introduce the 20 American Census investment act. Which would provide more funding for the census. And mandate that funds be used on promotion, education, out reach, and in addition to the it that you are addressing. And i just would like to hear your comments on that. On whether or not you will be funding by the way i want to thank chairman nullings for Ranking Member for supporting the bill. And the efforts to increase funning for it. And do you feel that funding the ad contract . Will you be funding the partnership out reach . Will you be funding education and out reach to get participation up in the census . Thank you, congresswoman. Im not used to being granted more money than i ask for, thats a totally new experience for me. We want to make sure we get an accurate account. Were way behind spending in the prior census in the decade. As i said earlier to Ranking Member. We believe the shortfall of the million. And the impact on the over all program, is made up for by the funding we have requested in the total life cycle cost. Will you be investing in promotion and education . And advertising . Investing in all sorts of things. For one thing the Communications Budget will be 5 hub million. Opposed to the 350. That was spent in 2010. Inflation adjusting the 2010 would bring it to 420. Were running 80 million more than on an inflation adjusted basis than the 2020. In addition. My time is almost up. The Economic Survey is that on track . The economy survey. I think so. So far. But thats not the most urgent part of the problem of the communication. What were doing is several things. We have more ways that people can respond than ever before. Were doing more Language Training than before. For example, introduced telephone call centers. And they will have the capability of openering in ten languages. Naturally including spanish. Our population is more diverse than that. So the call centers will be able to do up to 10 languages. In addition, the census e num ratders will provide support through the nature of people we select in multiple languages. Were trying to match the krarkt characterists to the population. In the area they will be surveying. As to the partnerships we certainly agree those are a big key. And those will include national organizations, state in local governments, churches, and other faith based organizations. Health clinics, legal aid centers. And other support mechanisms. So were trying to work with all of those and the Partnership Program will consume approximately half of the 500 million budget. For communication. Thats about 248 million will go for the partnership. So we believe that we are dealing adequately with the need for those. Thank you. General lady yields back. The gentleman from texas. Thank you. Im over here in the corner. Secretary, ross. Other direction. Oh, sorry. Got a couple questions for you. It seems to me the Census Bureau has this attitude of we have to do it ourselves. And arent looking to products that maybe already out there or companies that you might be able to contract with to save some money. For instance its my understanding that the Census Bureau received numerous recommendations inclouding from the gao and the Scientific Advisory committee as well as the private sector. That how the Census Bureau could better use commercial mapping and gis. Which would yeed a large cost saving and increase productivity. However to date the Census Bureau doesnt appear to have recognized or implemented any or any of the recommendations. How come we havent been looking at things like that . Well, there were very many private organizations contacted in the original process. I cant the process by which they made the final selection they did. That is basically occurred years before. But were dealing with the contracts that we do have. We believe that these are qualified people. And we believe that we will be able to get the job done. If we get the additional funding that we have requested. Can you maybe provide in terms of lessons learned. One of the things we intend to do as we go along, is the to keep careful track of further improvements that should be made in subsequent censuses. I think with only having 30 months between now and the 2020 desen yell. Making radical changes would probably guarantee that we didnt get it right sfl im concerned about the path were on. Not getting there. If you could get me a list of the proposals in recommendations. I sure would like to take a look. Just as an old computer guy we do the census every ten years and very few Computer Systems that have an effective life beyond ten years. Well gear up with the new Computer System in 2020. And here we are in 2030, well be sitting here doing the exact same thing. When it seems to me you could get with a Cloud Service that is secure. And we have those at the government uses now. And get an application written for peoples phone. This seems simpler. And this Cloud Service that we would use would buy the computers and size them the way they need to be sized. So they work. And when were done with needing a massive capacity, there theyre for them to use for other clients. To me that makes economic sense. Rather than the dpovt attitude of we have to do everything ourselves. Especially in it. Where i think the government really struggles. Were dammed by some of our own contracting laws. It seems like this is a great opportunity to look for some cost savings. And something i brought up to your predecessor. Several years ago. But it fell on deaf ears. We do believe that the cost will come in below the inflation adjusted cost of the 2010 census. Not with standing that there are the over runs. Predecessors estimated that the inflation adjusted cost of 2020 using the 2010 methodology would have been 17. 5 billion. So were way more than a billion below that. With all the problems that have occurred. Second in terms of using existing data bases, we do what we can. For example we making a lot of use of the administrative records. The postal system records. Local with the irs records. Social security records. To check id. Things of that sort. But the truth is americans are very mobile population. Something like 12 relocate each year. I do im running out of time much i want to make one more comment. I think the Postal Service is an unused government resource. It could be of more help to the census than i think theyre using. Postal Service Employees that visit almost every american residence five, six times a week. Theres a great resource there that maybe under utilized. My time is up. If youd like to comment further. We are. Were using the Postal Service and as i say the irs, Social Security, medicaid, medicare records. The Indian Health service. The every data base that we can imagine. Because we really are trying to make sure we count everyone. And that we count everyone one time. Gentleman from texas yields back. Gentleman from is recognized. Thank you secretary ross. For your testimony. I dont know the geography of the committee. Well enough. I understand. Really, the census is about three things. Money, information, and power. And no community or state wins if we fail to get this right. Our nation will be the ultimate loser. And as you all know, our country is more mobile as you said and more diverse than ever before. And sadly in some parts of our nation, residence have a high level of distrust. For the federal government which makes them less inclined to take part in this census. Thats true in urban communities like the one that i represent. In st. Louis which always struggles. With a lower selfreporting response. In generally across the nation, african americans, asians and new immigrants, and the rural poor are at a much greater risk of not being counted. A costly mistake they will pay for for an entire decade. Thats why the under funded the census 2020 out reach programs to hard to count groups is such an enormous by partisan threat. To every state and every district that we represent. And i guess im wondering, i want to start the line of questioning following up on miss maloneny. Hard to count, hard to reach audiences and lack of funding for this initiative which is part of your Communications Contract. Must receive the full attention of your administration. And i said that because the component of the Communications Contract needs, they need to be made full partners in the communications effort. Because thats where the challenge will be. On how we get to those hard to count populations. If i could just hear your concerns about that. And where were going with it. Surely. The entity over all in charge of communications is young and which also was involved in the 2020 di sen yell. We have the Institutional Knowledge they gain by their role ten years ago. Second, the they have retained Something Like 15 individual firms that specialize either in different forms of media or different ethnic groups. We tried to pinpoint. Further i may not have made it clear when what i said before, but the 500 million of communications is in addition to the 248 million for the partnership. So altogether were spending 748 million on this out reach initiative. And when you consider how many total households there are, thats quite a bit per household. And if you take out of that the ones that are easy responders, were spending an enormous amount per household on the one that is are difficult to reach. Thats quite a deliberate thing. We have been con seshtive in our estimate of those who will give voluntary response. Last census was 63. 5 . Were assuming that may drop to 55 . So we have assumed a despite Massive Communications, we have assumed that a higher percentage of the population will still need the foot soldiers clogging around and ringing doorbells. And your Partnership Program calls for testing of communication. Methods. All communications elements. Yes, sir. And that is being cancelled for 2018. How will the elements be tested . It hasnt been cancelled. Its been postponed. Postponed. So in some time in the calendar year of 2018 it will be tested . Yes. I thank you for that response. I yield back. Gentleman j georgia is recognized. Appreciate you being here. Who is responsible to deliver the i. T. Products on time . Who is response . The Census Bureau is responsible. They have a whole series of contracting parties. If you count them all up theyre probably 100 individual entities. But somebody has to be responsible that the product is delivered. Well, ultimate le me at commerce. And karen kelly as the over sight of the census. So why are the it products not delivered on time . Whats the hold up . Of. For the delivery of the i. T. Products. Were going end to end and dont have what we need. I think the original estimates as to how long it would take and how much it would cost to get to those products were flawed. So some of it maybe contractor not performing as well. I cant judge what went on prior to the present. I think its a combination of over optimism on the part of census. And maybe some areas on the part of the contract. Is there any accountability, is there any penalty for not delivering on time what was promised to be delivered . Well, each contract is different. But when youre on a time and materials contract, the concept of penalty doesnt really work very well. So were just going to have ambitious we hope to deliver but we wont deliver, and theres no accountability. Theres not as much accountability as there would have been if there were fixed price, fixed time contracts. Thats not the situation that were faced with. So, when do we have when can we possibly guess under these circumstances that well receive what we have. We have given more than what we think is a guess. We have done lots of work out in the field. We have done analysis of whats been done thus far. Lots of analysis of the contracts. And we believe that this budget fazed in the way that we have proposed will deliver the product that we need. I dont share your optimism. I dont see how in the world you can either with the type of situation were dealing with. And then you look at Cyber Security. How confident are you that this information gathered with an i. T. That hasnt been tested is going to be secure . Well, in todays world you cant be sure of anything in terms of Cyber Security. But i can assure you the systems were putting in are far more robust than anything that is ever been done before in census. I know last year that cio for bureau made a similar statement. Saying they had great confidence that the Cyber Security was in tact. And yet the system hadnt even been tested. How in the world can you have the confidence on something we know nothing about . First of all i didnt say i have confidence that its impengable. Its robust than had been true in 2010. How do you know that . Because of discussions with the people who are doing the implementation of it. But, having said that, im not aware that theres any system thats flawless. Sir, so you are giving great confidence to us about the Cyber Security based op conversations. No. Conversation is not enough to give assurance this is protected. The systems themselves will be far more robust than anything census has used before. Yet we have not seen the systems. No, because they are work in progress. Its all based on conversation. Not on test. This is all part of the problem. We get promises that are never delivered on. And we get now we have stiber security promises commitments that most robust thing we have seen before. That is simply based on conversation not on test. It looks to me like were going to go back to the same thing that happened in 2010 when we were promised all kinds of modernization. But it was a faulty program. So we end up with a paper based census. I dont see how we can proceed with this any further. Without going back to paper base and be honest with what were dealing with. Its impossible to test something that doesnt yet exist. My point precisely. 80 of the spending will be post 2018. But let me describe to you what it is that we are doing. All of the data on the census systems are being protected. Were playing some rigorous security protocol to the perimeter of the census own net work. Census has an existing net work. So were playing vigorous protocol to that. Were putting in routers and firewall. We have our own detection intrusion and prevention system in place at census. Census bureau now has an unprecedented level of engagement with the best resources elsewhere in the federal government. Were working closely with Cyber Security experts across the department. Including nist. Which is part of comers. The federal cio office. Department of homeland security, and the intelligence in Law Enforcement community. Were also putting a new level of Cyber Security federal management in place for the 2020 census over and above what was done in 120. Mr. Secretary, our time has gone. I know we want to respect the time. I appreciate your answers. They sound like talking points to me with not much beyond that. You cant test something that isnt in place. All right. The chair will recognize the general lady from the Virgin Islands. Thank you. Good morning, sir. How are you . I want to ask you some questions which of course are something thats on the minds of quite a number of americans right now. Is under taking census in areas that have recently been ravaged by disaster. And the mechanisms and processes that are potentially in place. To be able to do that. We know that millions of americans have been displaced by hurricane harvey, irma and maria. In the states of texas, florida and then the areas of puerto rico and Virgin Islands. As the communities work to rebuild, large scale changes are likely to occur that i assume would greatly impact the 2020 census. If we have learned anything from Hurricane Katrina in 2005. Its that recovery from large scale to Natural Disaster takes time and a quite a lot of time. 2011 report by the Leadership Conference on civil and human rights illustrated that challenges to enumeration Activity Still exist in the gulf region in 2010. Almost five years after katrina. The report highlighted issues such as large numbers of individuals and temporary housing. Informal housing arrangements, high ratesover vacant units. Significant changes in new Housing Stock and population fix in the affected areas. Mr. Secretary, do you agree the bureau is likely to encounter many if not all of the challenges due to the destruction caused by this years hurricanes and perhaps future hurricanes before the census takes place . You surely right in pointing out issues. Heres what were doing. During the 2010 census, they changed the operations in the areas that were hit by katrina and rita. What it involved was putting more people on the ground to deliver questionnaires directly to Housing Units and updating the addresses while doing so. We can do something similar in 2020. As needed. If it does turn out that we need that, it will cost more money. But we have tried to allow an amount for these types of contingencies provided that the and a half ral disasters are not more extreme than we have experienced in the past. In addition, we have a particular problem in the u. S. Virgin islands. And for that matter in puerto rico. We conduct the census in the territories by working directly with territorial governments to build and implement the operations that best fit their respective situations. Were developing our approach for the 2020 with the government of the Virgin Islands. And will ensure the operations taken to account the impact of the recent hurricanes. Excuse me. When you say particular challenges, what have you seen in the past as being uniqueness of trying to find census data in areas like puerto rico and the Virgin Islands besides the obvious is we dont have street addresses . Right. As you know the census has confronted those basic problems over and over. Every time that they have gone through it they have learned something from the process. The difficulty we have now is that the issue with residents has been terribly compounded by the awful destruction that occurred. So the magnitude of the task has become greater than it ever had been. Will your budget reflect the magnitude of the hurricanes . We have tried our best to do so. And i know in the past that you have done a good job of not just partnering with the local government, but with Community Organizations. As well. That they have been somewhat boots on the ground for you. Absolutely. Thats why we have allocated 248 million for partnerships with local Community Organizations. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. I yield back. Gentleman from alabama is recognized. Thank you, mr. Secretary for being here today. I understand the frustration that my colleagues have expressed. Give you an example the gao and the office of Inspector General have cited a number of issues where the Census Bureau that you inherited. Had to be totally troutful about it. But the frustration is that these dont appear to have been adequately addressed. For instance the included the 2020 census on the high risk list for 2017. In fact over the last three years aissued 30 recommendations. As of january this year only six have been implemented. Are you familiar with the list . Well, we have been working closely with the gao. You will be hearing from them a bit later. And we are cooperating with them in their audit of work we have been doing. My question, we only have five minutes. I want to give you an opportunity to answer this is a yes or no would be sufficient. Are you familiar with the list of 30 recommendations . I couldnt hear you. Are you familiar with the list from the gao the 30 recommendations . Sure. And youre aware only six have been implemented have been followed up on as of january of this year . As of january. That was true. I believe theres been further progress since then. There will be continuing progress. I think its extremely important that when the gao or the oig make recommendations when they have findings of issues that federal agencies federal departments act on them. Its frustrating to the folks who are doing the work. Its frustrating to us and the over sight capacity. Its not just the Census Bureau this occurred in other agencies. Theres a mounting frustration we identify problems and they dont get addressed. My question. Is this a top priority. Midlevel . How serious are you taking these . It certainly it a top priority. And i think youll find the oig testimony pretty well mirrors the top management challenges report that we put together. What happened prior to january of this year i cant account for. I was confirmed february 28. I realize that. I made that clear that you inherited most of the problems. The thipg we want to know is that under your leadership that this taken seriously. It is. The cost estimate. It began questioning that in 2008. It certainly is. My testimony today focussed on a lot of it. One of the recommendations is the bureau needs to manage the risk of implementing innovation. You heard my testimony. I totally agree with that. We have much more heavy handed in the management than there had been before. Second, the bureau continues to face challenges in implementing and securing key it systems. Is 100 true. For sure. The 2018 end to end test will probably reveal some more deficiencies that will have to deal with. My colleague from georgia expressed frustration with the testing progress. I appreciate your response. We have had the bureau had a number of problems in terms of failing to adequately test systems and products. And when they do test them theyre not using the results to inform the Decision Making. We will. Thats comforting to know. And im certain under your leadership that will happen. Thats one of the frustrations again that we have. Is that you had the goa and oig. This committee making remss. Its not just the department. This happened a number of times with other agencies. We want to make sure this is such a serious issue, we want to make sure that systems are tested and the results are used in the Decision Making. Mr. Chairman, i appreciate the opportunity to submit the question. I yield back. The it part was a key one. In the goa recommendation. As i mentioned earlier, our budget is more than what they felt was the minimum required. They came in thinking that as opposed to i think it was 36 the former administration had estimated. They recommended 48 or more. We came in at 4,000,000,960. Were not ignoring in of those recommendations not by a long shot. Gentleman from alabama yields back. The general lady from florida is recognized. Thank you so much. Thank you for being with us today. You have already talked about under counted populations. But this issue has been in the news recently because of the lawsuit filed by the naacp. Which it filed in part because of concerns about the under count of communities of color. Young children, home renters, low income persons and rule residents. Im concerned lt under count could be exaster baited in 2020. If minority groups are less inclined to share personal information with government due to climate of mistrust. By this immigration policy. Can you assure immigrant families and other bad word, but marginalized groups that the day will be kept confidential and not used to pursue Law Enforcement or immigration action . I believe it would be illegal for those data to be used for other purposes. So unless someone commits a crime i dont think that will happen. But on the naacp lawsuit, they filed a freedom of information act request with us. On the 29th of june. Secretary, excuse me. So youre saying if the information was used for Law Enforcement purposes, or for immigration policy, that that would be illegal . My understanding is that the information about specific individuals is not to be used for any other purpose. Using it would be illegal . Im trying to understand. Im not a lawyer. I cant parse that. As i understand it, its not to be used for any other purpose. Okay. One way i know you have also spoke about Partnership Programs. And certainly i believe that additional programs of that nature may lessen some of the concern. How Many Partnership specialists have you hired and how many do you anticipate hiring by census day . There are quite a few. Let me see if i can get the exact number. Okay. While youre looking, i think my colleague mr. Clay talked about testing of new processes okay. The answer is 40. 40 people. 40. How many do you anticipate in hiring by census day . Is that the total . 40 i believe is the total number. Okay. To date. Okay. Thank you very much. Any anticipated numbers by census day . At this point . Well see how much comes in. A lot of Community Organizations are well aware of the census, had participated in it before sdp are signing up themselves. So depending on whether we get a good flow consistent with improving it over the last time, that will determine how many people are needed. Okay. Thank you for that. I know you also spoke about testing of new procedures. Id like to talk about in rule, allen and triable areas. And tie in those procedures to the Budget Constraints that we currently face. Secretary ross, what are you doing to ensure that these new processes will work smoothly in rule allen and tribal areas . The tribal areas are one of the specific segments that are being tested. So that we can get real world results seeing how the procedures that we have introduced work. Okay. And for rural and island . Same. On the census web site. It says i quote we promise that we will use every technology, statistic kal, methology and physical security procedure at our disposal to protect your information unquote. Could you talk about how the adequate or inadequate funding might effect that promise . We believe the funding we have requested will provide us the resources we need. For that purpose. If you do not get the funding that you requested, are you able to fulfill the promise thats on your web site . We will do the best we can with the resources we get. We think that the optimal amount for the proper job is the amount we requested. Thank you, secretary ross. I yield back. The gentleman from iowa is recognized. Thank you, chairman. Secretary ross thank you for being here. 15. 6 billion i guess is the latest estimate. In iowa. Thats a lot of money. It is to me too, sir. 125 million households. The math if im correct is about 125 per household. Thats about right. To do what we want to do. Does that strike you as a large number . It is a large number. Its even a larger number when you consider that the vast bulk of that is spent on getting the last few million in. Because the ones who respond to the initial mailed document or respond over internet the cost of those is very small. Its the more difficult to e num raut people that are the most expensive to get to. The last few Million People are going to cost more than the first few million. The Response Rate is so critical. Youre a private sector guy. I am as well. Can you in 60 seconds let me know how much. Are we utilizing the private sector. Im tliing for example google. Probably didnt spend 15 billion to map the entire United States visually. Are we utilizing the Technology Available to the extent possible . I believe so. Can you expand on that. Briefly. Especially the technology piece. Well, the where the google Type Technology is helpful, is in locating physical structures. It doesnt really go within the structure to the individual person. So our task is first to identify the physical structures that have residents in them. Whatever the nature whatever the formality or informality of the living arrangement. Then the real test is to get inside them and find out exactly how many people are there. So thats where the selfresponses are very helpful. And were providing for internet selfresponse. Providing call centers to make it easy. And everybody is going to be getting mailings. And then finally as of last resort well use the primitive thing of a guy knocking on the door. Speaking of a guy knocking on the door. Back in my district in iowa i delivered the mail. One of them brought an idea to me. Why dont they use us more. For example i know exactly in my route how many people live in each house. I know their names. Why dont they utilize us . Great question. Oh we do. Our fundamental data base is the postal system. No question. But because people move, people die. People all kinds of things happen. Something like 12 of the population relocates during the course of a calendar year. Within the more difficult to enumerate portion, theres probably more mobility than there is say in Single Family home in a little town. So, its very complicated. We do begin with the postal system records. For sure. So you use the data base. Can we utilize the man knocking on the door . Can we utilize that. The postal carrier. The man knocking on the door is the last resort. Only when all the more efficient mechanisms have already been used. Looking at the 15. 6 billion. I thought if you and i formed a company, im guessing we could do it for 8 billion. Save the government seven. And we would put a few dollars in our pocket im guessing. Any truth to that . Well, i dont know. We are where we are. We do think urn the circumstances we really need the 15. 6. Thank you. Thanks for being here. I yoeld back. Gentleman from iowa yield back. Gentleman from pennsylvania is recognized. Thank you. I want to express my appreciation for the hearing. People dont think about the census that much. It is such an important thing. Its not just because its constitutionally mandated. That we need to get it right. We need to get it right so american federal government can work better for everybody. We need an accurate census. We need know where the people are. We need to know where the jobs are. We need know where the poverty is. We need to know how the economy is changing. We need to know what the government needs to do. And maybe needs to stop doing. And where these things need to happen. So much of policy depends on an accurate census. We need to get it right. Secretary ross its good to see you again. I saw you in may when you testified before the house appropriation committee. I want to touch on some areas that we do have concerns about. I think all of us in the room share the concern. We need to get it roigt. We want to learn from past mistakes. We dont want to have rose colored glasses. And unjustified hopes. We need to be a very practical and pragmatic about this. Youre that person, secretary ross. So i want to touch on a few things. First warning signs of trouble. May 3rd was when the census director thompson appeared buffer my subcommittee on appropriation. And we asked him hard questions. Much like the ones youre getting here today. And he resoined the next week. Thats a warning sign of trouble to me. He hasnt been replaced. First question, are there immediate plans to replace the census director . Yes. We had actually come up with a nominee and then that fell away during the vetting process. So were actively trying to recruit. But i have very good confidence in the team that we have asellabled right now. Namely the two people who collectively have some 30 years each of experience. Are there functioning every day. Karen kelly is providing over sight of them. Plus im being very personally involved and we have the whole series of ore sight meetings. Meetings with the contractors. Were all over this thing. As best we can be. Its not to say we dont want to have a permanent approved census director. We do and we will. Its not an easy task to fill. You need someone who has subject matter, command and Management Experience to deal with the enormously challenging task of hiring a half a million temporary workers. Getting them out there, getting them productive. And getting the Big Technology change introduced. You have a lot of other things that demand your attention. I urge you to devote the maximum effort into fipding that person. To be a strong active knowledgeable census director. Lets get that done quickly. Were trying our very best. We need to get this census right. One of the problems one of the red flags is we know there are under reported communities. A number of them have been mentioned by my colleagues. One of them i have noticed is the Lgbt Community. Historically under reported. Particularly older people. That young people are more likely to be homeless chl making it all the more likely they will be not counted. And in fact the Census Bureau itself has recognized that the Lgbt Community is hard to count population yet the bureau has declined to put questions about Sexual Orientation and gender identity in to the census. Secretary, did you determine that there was no federal need for this information . No, there were hearings held about it. There were requests put in and it was concluded that that particular set of questions did not meet the requirements for being put in. One of the problems with adding questions is it reduces Response Rate. Its may seem counter intuitive. The more things you ask in the forms the less likely you are to get them in. Theres a balancing act. Between more information and fewer responses. Secretary, my time is up. I want to associate myself with the hard questioning you got from my colleague congressman of georgia. I urge you to devote a great deal of attention to the online. The selfreporting. Increasing Public Confidence in the Cyber Security of this system. Because as you have said yourself today, thats the cheapest way we get the job done. With the selfreporting. With the online work. And i urge you to devote attention to increasing the Publics Trust in the online system. And giving them good reason to have trust in that system. With that i yield back. We share your concern. Thank you. Gentleman from california is recognized. Sorry about that. The gentleman from texas. I do want to say this, he was out several times ago and let others go. I apologize. Youre up and the gentleman from california. Thank you. And secretary ross. Its great to have you here. Its great to know that theres attention to this important issue. You have a very important portfolio. Its great youre involved in providing loerd ship for this. I know you have inherited i think the technical term is a mess. And i recognize i appreciate your comments about how to prevent the next census from being in a similar position. So i appreciate that. When some of your predecessors were here last time, there was a debate about whether the Census Bureau should develop a wijt. That uses the telecommunication backbone that the enumerator can put data in. And the question was that wij et exists. Its called a smart phone. And im glad to know that the Census Bureau decided to use i believe smart phones. And my question around that is have we discussed or have plans have you and the cio for the Census Bureau had some conversations around security of whatever device could be used by the enumerator . Yes. We have had consultation not only within the department. But with homeland security. With fbi, with the intelligence community. With the over all cio and the government. And in commerce. Were building in the best firewalls and routers that we possibly can. But having said that, theres some 13 yearold kid in a fwraj somewhere trying to figure out how to penetrate it. In todays world, you do your best. You cant be 100 sure. Unfortunately. You have to begin with the assumption of breech. I did this for a living. I never not got in. The fact that there is again focus from your office on this security of the systems and i know that 43 systems that have to be delivered or for end to end testing. In 2018. And only four of those have been delivered. I know theres conversation on that. And my concern is the bureau is going to have to get the authorizization to opener. The ato for each one of the systems. And i know some of the is section of the 43 systems already have ato. They need o get new ones because the systems is evolving. And im curious in the strategy that you and your i. T. Have discussed on ensuring we have the ato in time to protect those personally identifiable information. Especially on the 33 systems. That do have pi. Well, there are actually more than 50 systems that will be involved. And then their uses are to update and maintain the address list to enable people to respond by the internet. To identify the households that have not responded in order to send interviewers to them to manage the work of the interviewer. And to recruit and pay the fields work force. Those are just a few kparm examples of the kind of systems. Systems also capture, process, and tabulate all of the Data Collected on the People Living in the United States. Were monitoring the progress of all of the systems. And each one is at a different stage of completion. As we sit here. And so what is your strategy to ensure that the systems are delivered and have the ato necessary to get this done . Well, were trying to apply enough pressure on the contractors and surveillance of them to deal with the glitches that inevitably will come up. There will be unexpected problems in each area. And thats why we have allowed the 10 contingency. Because most of the problems that come up can be solved. Its a question of how many people it takes and what cost. Id like to offer that we would love to talk to the folks, those contractors. They may not be delivering on time and have them join you at the table to ensure the census done properly. My last question. Why did the head of the census the form drerkt tor leave the bureau . I think he is issued a Public Statement about why he left. I did not know him very well. So i cant really judge what his motivations were. He has found other employment in the statistic kal community. And he actually held a press conference at the National Press club a week or two after he resigned and explained what the motivations were. Thank you. I yield back the time i do not have. I apologize again for not counting the gentleman from texas. Embarrassing in a census hearing. I apologize for that. Gentleman from california. I dont mind you calling him the gentleman from california. We have had so many move to texas. I specify the other gentleman from california. Thank you so much for sticking around. Im over here. The newest member of the house and the committee. You sticking around is helpful to me. I never get to ask the questions. Im big fan of the census. Its a subject i studied in graduate school. Took classes on it. Its important to the entire country and how we operate. One of the issues is definitely the urn count when it comes to certain communities. African americans and hispanics. Im fearful that will go up in the next census because of the immigration policies. Of the new administration. The acting ice director issued a Statement Last week in response to a bill that was passed in california. Sb 54 the california value act. They would have no choice but to conduct large scale raids and enforcement with the neighborhoods and workplaces. What kind of you mention this also made me think about the Response Rate would be 55 . Has the i guess the new interior enforcement policy of the administration been taken into account when determining the Response Rate . The under count and just kind of figure out what impact it will have on the communities. Well, the there are quite a lot of questions in what you have said. But the Response Rate in 2010 had been 63. 5 . The original estimate that the census folks had used original this time. You took that down, to 55 for the very reasons that you are describing. Is that exactly the right number . Who knows. But its a safer number than 60. 5. So our starting point is a more conservative one and because of that, we have allocated more money to the difficult to enumerate part and second, we have increased the Communications Budget from the 350 million that was spent in 2010, to 500 million and even if you look at 2010, on the 2020 inflation adjusted basis, that would only bring it to 420. So, its almost a 20 increase over the inflation adjusted basis. So, we are increasing the communication is one thing and second, we are spending 248 million on these partnerships forengines, that is over and above the 500 million that we are spending on communications. So, if you add that allquarters billion dollars dedicated to outreach and most of that is in fact, devoted to the last few million to try to minimize the danger of under counting. The ones that respond immediately to a mailing and a phone call, they dont cost too much to get its the last ones. We have ten different languages and doing all kinds of things that were not done before. By way of training to improve the process. I am glad that is being taken in to account. Thats why also the partnerships are so important. You mentioned that 40 special i. T. S ha s specialists have currently budgeted. What is your goal on the number of partnerships for the 2020 census . Well, our goal is our taur target is to get to a number theres a historic under count in the communities and we need too accurately count them. You have a tough job and i appreciate that theres been thought about the political and immigration enforcement. When you talk to the community, you dont think theres a correlation, but some communities have seen increases in the noshow rate up to 19 . Thats a big jump. If they are not showing up to get physicals and health checkups, you will see a lower Response Rate. I yield back. The gentleman from california is recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Seco secretary, around here, we all say all questions have been asked but not by all of us here. Seeing as i appear that im the last up to bat, i will try not to repeat any more than necessary. Earlier on, mr. Duncan asked about the American Community survey. I want to plant something. I have the same concerns he has of intrusiveness and so on, and i have a concern of inaccuracy. Its anecdotal, but i have been living in the same house when i am here for years. The last census and this census, for whatever reason, they threatened my livelihood if i did not answer questions about a place that i do not live. So, pursuant to a targeting that would reasonably determine whether or not theres a resident. The place that i reside in when im here. Except for my except for a corporate name on the title. Theres no way to trace it back to anybody. It is a house that receives no mail. Has no bank account. Nothing to it. And yet, its a target of the community survey, for which i ignore. I take it to my staff and they send it to the census borough bureau and say its silly. I wonder if you have to be random without looking and you use tools to determine the high likelihood of places that should be surveyed, just a thought. Another thought. This is my third census and as i came in as the first census and the gentleman from california who departed talked about, we inherited it from the Clinton Administration and it had differences. In 2010, under the bush err a we and then obama, he really inherited it from president bush who did most of the preparation work. What i will tell you, i saw little difference in the fact that the Census Bureau seemed surprised that ten years have passed. They always seem a little shocked that they didnt make it and then they Start Talking about funding for something they had ten years. So, heres a question from yours and my years in business. Decades ago, when we were younger businessmen, companies closed for as much as a week to do their annual shut down and inventories. Everyone except those counting went home. And that once a Year Inventory was the way it was. That was before a great many advances both in statistical accuracy and in the ability to continuously monitor inventory. Today, no sensible company ever has to shut down because they are continuously making sure their inventories are accurate. The constitution eenumerates a once a ten year accounting. But it could be changed if we decided that america would be better off with continuous accurate counting. A situation in which the Census Bureau, would be constantly doing its job. It would not be trying to do something once every ten years which seems to be simply because they only do it once every ten years. So, i would ask you to draw on the evolutions that you have seen over decades, in how we look at accounting for things and ask the question, on your watch, shouldnt we begin the process, even if its requires congressional action, to go to a continuous counting system to make it constitutional, but to make it much more accurate which today, with tools both in counting, and to be honest, with the modern computer accuracy of what we know and where we know it, couldnt we do the American People a Better Service . I have to confess, with just getting my arms around the existing process, i have not decided to change the whole thing. Theres probably pluses and minuses to the idea of the continual survey. At some point i will try to give thought to it. As you correctly point out r, tt would take a constitutional amendment and that would be a big challenge in itself, to make a radical change in something so fundamental to the allocation of seats and allocation of monies. I would agree with you that if in fact, the count would be more accurate by the current system, it would require some action. The question is, when you certify. When the Census Bureau certifies what our population is and where it is in 2020, they will be doing so with the best efforts they can have. Most of which will be done based on a once every ten year count. What i would say, if we look at what we should do for those coming in the decades and centuries to come, it begin now with some sort of effective study and it be based on the people behind you for the beginning. And then a commission that would in fact check out of the feasibility, run the questions, create the question of could we have a higher confidence and could we have it every day, and of every month of every year rather than the estimates today which we rely on the estimates during the interim period, why are they not as accurate or more accurate than the ones every ten years. So i plant it for you, because your real legacy can only be affected slightly what you do from the time you take over to the time we have our census. You have a short period of time and most of the time has expired. But, for 12 years from now, plus, theres a question of whether or not we could improve the system just as any of the portfolio of companies that you are familiar with, would never close for a week once a year, and think thats the best way to count inventory. Rng. I agree with your analogy of the private sector, but i think it would be a large undertaking to continually know the pluses and minuses of the thing. It would require additional congressional appropriation. I dont want to divert any of the census people from the task at hand. Its a heavy enough lift the way it is. So to take some of them off that job, and think about a possible alternative, i really dont think is in the publics interest. That would have to be the separate appropriation. Thank you mr. Secretary. Thank you mr. Chairman. Yes, sir, thank you, mr. Secretary. We have one more member to go, i will go last. I think we heard that the census is constitutionally significant. And the apportionment of goods and services and the causal link of cost and compliance. The compliance is going down and cost going up. I dont remember a lot from my childho childhood, because it was a long time ago. I remember the seriousness that my parents took the census. It was a form of public service, maybe not to the level of jury service but it was important. So if you like to believe that most of our fellow americans would like to help, how do what are the impediments to the complaint rate . How do we reverse the trend of our fellow citizens not voluntarily complying . Well, i can only speculate, but i will give you a couple of thoughts on it. The fabric of the trust in government has deteriorated. Thats one of the problems. I think a second problem, theres so much in put that comes in to everyone. Whether its in the social media or the conventional media, from whatever source and i think everyone is over dozed on information flow, junk mail the whole thing. I think information clutter is the separate problem. And its one of the problems even with the call center. A lot of people dont like to get in coming calls from stranger strangers for whatever reason. And the do not call list has proven quite ineffective. I have found in government a short while, i got these robo calls on my official government cell phone. I think, if we want to get Response Rates to improve, we have to get rid of a lot of the intrusions that people found in the normal course. I was astonished to get two or three junk calls a day on my official government cell phone. I will help you there getting a different number. Maybe it wont help. I think you put your finger on something, the disconnect between the citizens and the government and the lack of trust, i dont think that people mind answering questions where they see the relevance. How many folk s live in your household. That is relevant to a portionment and redistricting and the provision of goods and services. I made a note, and you said in response to one of my colleagues the more questions you ask the lower the compliance rate is. Absolutely. You use the word counter intuitive and i think, its not counter intuitive. It makes perfect sense. The longer something takes me the less likely i am to do it. The morin true intrusive i see less likely i will do it. I dont want to dwell on the community survey, but its not lost on me that american citizens can reject a jury trial. They can reject a lawyer. They can refuse to talk to the government. They can refuse to talk to Law Enforcement. They can refuse to vote. It is surprising to me to see that line at the bottom of the survey that you can be punished for failing to tell the government how many bathrooms you have and what kind of fixtures you have. Given that you and i agree that the disconnect between the citizenry and the government is one of the reasons we have a low compliance rate, i would encourage you to be thoughtful about what questions government does ask. And the only thing that i would two other points and then, we are done. Cost matters. It matters. Period. New paragraph. I think in a lot of facets of life, we are willing to pay for quality. We do it with automobiles. We do it with sporting events. I think if you were somehow able to convince our fellow citizens that they are going to get a aplus product, that you are not happy about the extra cost, but if they can swallow that, they will get an aplus product. Its when you get the higher cost and the sub standard product that feeds the disconnect. So, you, i dont know you well, you were kind enough to come over last week. I know nothing about your background or anything about your politics. I will tell you this, you come across as an authentic person, and as someone that our fellow citizens would believe on an issue like this. I would encourage you to pair up with someone who has a different politic politic politic politic political ideas. And it would be helpful to all of us, as americans. Not republicans and not democrats. Not southerners. It would be helpful as americans if we got the compliance number up. Its going to save money. Its also more accurate. So, im not talking about ad campaign. But use the bully pulpit of being a cabinet level official to reassure the fellow citizens that you want to do it the right way and you want it to be accurate and you could use their help. I am i think its good advice and i will try very hard to use whatever bully pulpit comes with commerce to try to achieve that. Well, i want to on behalf of everyone, i want to thank you for not just today but the briefing you gave us yesterday. We have another panel. I know you have other things to do. So, we are going to recess and then allow the second panel to come forward and with that, thanks on behalf of all of us for your time this morning. Thank you for your time this morning. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. I want to welcome our second panel and thank you for your patience. It was longer morning but we made it and so, thank you, i will introduce you and recognize you for your 5 00 openings and mr. Cummings is coming and he glaci graciously told me to start. To my right, director of census issues at the Government Accountability office. Carol rice, assistant Inspector General for economic and Statistical Program assessment for the department of Commerce Office of the Inspector General. And president and ceo of the Leadership Conference on human and civil rights. I think all of you have testified before. You know, with the color system. You know that green is go. Yellow is get lou the light. And red is stop. I will not stop you right at 5 a 00, because its important. But your Opening Statement is part of the record. With that, lets proceed. Chairman, Ranking Member cummings and members of the committee. We are pleased to be here to discuss the census readiness for the 2020 head count. As you know in recent years we have identified a number of operational, management, and other challenges that raise serious concerns about the bureaus ability to conduct a Cost Effective counting and in february 2017, we added the 2020 census to our list of high risk government programs. My remarks today will focus on two such challenges. Implementing Design Innovations aimed at controlling costs and developing reliable cost estimates that inform annual budget requests. My colleague, david counter will discuss the challenges that the bureau faces in implementing and securing critical i. T. Systems. The bottom line is that while the bureau has made considerable progress in redesigning the census, significant risks and uncertainties remain. More over, as secretary ross mentioned, its now projected to cost 15. 6 billion, more than 3 billion above the boroughs original estimate. Going forward, continued management attention and congressional oversight will be needed in the short time remaining until census day to ensure that key components and i. T. Systems are fully tested, and will function as required. That preparations stay on schedule, and that cost estimates follow leading practices and any further cost growth is capped. To help control costs while maintaining accuracy the bureau will use new procedures and technology for 2020, including greater use of automatic dated collection methods and administrative records in place of Data Collected by enumerators and verifying addresses and allowing households the option of responding to the census via the internet. While these new methods may control costs they introduce new risks in part because they have not been used to a great extent in prior censuses sta es at all. The bureau has held a series of tests since 2012 at various sites across the country. The bureau is currently conducting a 2018 end to end test in Pierce County washington, providence county, rhode island. The tests began in august, 2017, and scheduled to run through april of 2019. Essentially a dress rehearsal for the actually enumeration, its the final opportunity to demonstrate that census taking activities will perform under operational conditions. However, in may 2017 because of Budget Constraints the budget descoped the test and only plans to conduct a complete test in rhode island. The washington and West Virginia sites will only assess address canvassing. This is not the first time that the bureau has curtailed the testing. Siting funding uncertainties the bureau cancelled field components of a 2017 test. Importantly, without sufficient testing across a range of locations, housing types and demographic groups, operational problems can go undiscovered and the opportunity to refine procedures and systems will be lost. Another risk factor is the quality of the bureaus estimate of the cost of the 2020 census, which does not conform to best practices. Quality cost estimates can help an agency manage large complex activitiesline like the census, and make funding decisions and provide oversight. However the cost estimate for that year only partially met the characteristics of two best practices and minimally met the other two best practices, well documented and credible. Additionally the bureau has not yet publically released the update to the 2015 cost estimate, yet several events since then, including changes in system requirements and procedures indicate that the life cycle cost will be substantially higher than the original stauestimate of 12. 5 billion. The bureaus preparations for 2020 will be complicated by the vacatio vacating of offices. It makes it difficult to ensure continuity and mitigate risks over the longterm. That concludes my prepared remarks and i will turn it over to dave who will discuss the risks facing the Census Bureaus i. T. Efforts. Thank youer for inviting us to testify about our plans to deliver and secure key technologies for the 2020 census. They can improve the nations Response Rates and secure citizens data. This technology has not been effectively planned nor managed and much work remains to deliver it. Three areas require congressional attention soer associated with the technologies. They are schedule, security, and cost growth. I will expand on each of these. Starting with schedule. The bureau needs to deliver 43 systems for the 2020 census, some are new systems and infrastructure and others are are changing to existing systems. Clearly the internet response capability, mobile devices and the centralized Operations Component are critical systems. These systems need to be ready for the end to end test that started in august to ensure that they are integrated appropriately. The bureau has missed many milestones and currently only 4 of the 43 have completed the development and testing. Of the remaining 39, 21 have delivered some functionality while nothing has been delivered for the remaining 18 for this test. Many of the systems have key delivery dates in early 2018, so they can be inincluded in the end to end test. That includes the response and the fraud detection system. The mobile device application has been running behind schedule for some time, and we have serious concerns about the Timely Delivery of the fraud detection system. Im not sure i would agree with the secretarys comment this morning that the systems are on schedule. The appendix written statements will be tracked closely. We are concerned that schedule pressure and late deliveries will result in compressed and inadequate testing. Turning to security. The bureau needs to continue the diligence in the area since it has been the target of recent cyber attacks. The bureau needs to minimize the threat of fishing and secure about 400,000 mobile devices. And ensure security of Cloud Services, and properly configure all systems. To ensure that all systems are as secure as possible, the bureau needs to assess security controls fix known deficiencies and have the proper signoff by the chief Information Officer and the head of the decennial office to make sure that each system is authorized to operate. This process is critical since 33 of the 43 information contain personally identifiable information t bureau has such a process but we have concern cans about whether there will be time to complete all the Security Work given the late delivery dates of the system, and whether short cuts will be taken due to pressure to authorize prematurely. Right now, all 43 systems need to be authorized reauthorized or authorized,s that point that i think its fair to say, congressman hammered home well. Finally we have concerns about the cost growth associated with the technologies and have had the concerns for some time. The program is mentioned by secretary ross in his testimony and its overrun about 400 million and now costing about a billion dollars. Baseline i. T. Costs seem to be changing scaconstantly. The latest from the bureau is that i. T. Costs were 3. 4 billion, and this total did not include 1. 4 billion. Bringing the total cost closer to 5. Not 3. 5. The new life cycle estimate includes the billion and a half that was not accounted for. We will be tracking the costs closely. Given the remaining work and passed miss management. We remain concerned with the cost growth. And in conclusion can. The cost growth are concerns that we will continue to monitor for the congress. Mr. Chairman. Thank you for holding the hearing and your over site of the 2020 decennial. Miss rice. Good afternoon. I appreciate the opportunity to testify about the bureaus 2020 census life cycle cost estimate. We all support the bureaus ultimate goal to produce a high quality census while minimizing costs. But over the last several years we produced a number of reports that have found weaknesses in how the bureau allocates costs and collects data and estimates cost for the 2020 census. My testimony today provides Additional Details about the additional limitations. First, we found that the bureaus 2020 census life cycle cost estimate cannot be validated. And much of the work throughout the decade reveals cost overruns and unaccounted for costs and decreased cost voavoidance. The first cost estimate is not auditable. It takes in to account more than 100 inputs. When we tried to verify the census test, there was no supporting documentation. Additionally, we evaluated the interactive review portion of the inoffice and address canvassing operation and found that the estimate was derrived were undocumented verbal conversations. This lack of documentation, prevented us from auditing the cost avoidance that the bureau reported to stakeholders and we identified three instances where the census tests failed to capture cost day that that could value daidate and update the co data. The 2014 census test did not collect the cost data in the field. Finally during the 2015 census test we found that the bureau could not tell between the cost performing enumeration and new activities. So it could not determine if the new methods were more equity i have and efficient that was achieved by reducing administrative burdens. We saw weaknesses in how they account for costs. We found that the bureau recorded employee costs based on predetermined budget allocations instead of the hours worked. In addition, we found multiple instances where contractor costs were not charged to the correct activities. All of these things prevent the bureau from making informed decisions. We are concerned for cost overruns and decreased cost avoidance. For example, the bureau projected spending 650 million and now its estimated at 965 and based on what the secretary said, it will be higher. One audit of the bureaus address canvassing test found substantial overruns. The bureau estimated that spending for inaddress canvass would cost 44 million. But our review found that it would cost three times that amount at 125 million. Finally, our evaluation of the 2016 census test identified unaccounted for costs with the redesigned operations. We found that the operational control system allowed enumerators allowed more contact attempts than the cost estimate accounted for. So the expectation was they would go up to six times and we found them going many, many more times. And we are concerned about the increased unresolved rate. As observed in the test. The potential need to expend Additional Resources that are not currently accounted for in the bureaus cost estimate. In conclusion, we applaud the Census Bureau for undertaking several initiatives to modernize the operations. We recognize that not all the innovations will perform as expected and some of the cost savings may not materialize. However, for stakeholders to have confidence this the cost estimate, the bureau must strengthen the processes by documenting inputs and capturing and tracking all project costs correctly. I am encouraged by the recent efforts to improve the life cycle cost estimate. The bureau started to link the documentation to the variables in the estimate and as we heard the secretarys task force worked closely with the bureau to improve the estimate. We are looking forward to reviewing that final product. So, thank you very much for inviting me and im pleased to answer questions. Thank you. Chairman doudy, and Ranking Member cummings and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to be here today the Leadership Conference on civil and human right it iss deeply engaged in the last several cycles of the decennial census. The leadership shares the concerns and interests in a modern, secure and Cost Effective 2020 census. Technology can facilitate easy and less costly participation in the census, however, to uphold its constitutional duty and ensure an accurate and fully inclusive count. Congress mustal oh, indicate sufficient resources to count historically under counted communities, it must provide funding for comprehensive Risk Management and having real time back up methods and operations. And we are pleased to support two reports in addressing both opportunities and the risks posed by the use of technology and of administrative records in the 2020 census. Per the constitution, the primary and over arching of the goal is a fair and accurate enumeration of all People Living in the United States on census day. And a goal of the census that is equally successful is really nonnegotiable. These are not as a chairman said, republican, and democrat goals, its key to our representative system of government. But frequently late funding has delayed and derailed important testing and preparations. Most at risk are the operations designed to count historically hard to count communities. The Census Bureaus need to study ramp up in funding to defield the field infrastructure and development of a Massive Communications campaign that will encourage people to participate and therefore, at the back end help keem census costs in check. We support the proposal and Congress Woman maloneys new bill. I will not go through it you have it before you. The census has political consequences and the constitution says as much. The conduct of the census must be nonpartisan and must strive to achieve an accurate count in all communities. Even with careful planning we may be looking at an environment that could yield under counts in poor communities, Rural Communities and those recovering from Natural Disasters and communities of color and those of immigrants and others who have a mistrust of government, who have deep concerns about cybersecurity. And the security of their information as well as in Rural Communities where the Digital Divide is pronounced. Theres hard to count communities in every state and all sizes. From large urban areas to smaller cities to rural and remote communities, including American Indian tribal lands and reservations and two points to note for both members here. Nearly 10 of census tracks in carolina are hard to count, and 27 of baltimores population live in hard to count census tracks. Regrettably we fear that the Budget Constraints were imposed add to the barriers. The bureau will attempt to minimize the under accounting and it will be a hampered by a smaller footprint in the kneeled and as you know, when your stints are not counted they are invisible for the next ten years. There are not any doovers and theres no question that the Census Bureau must get it right for the first time because all of us, members of congress, county officials, and veterans, advocates and businesses large and small, and indeed all of us in the United States have to live with the results of it for the next ten years. So the Leadership Conference look forward to work with all of you to ensure a Cost Effective and secure and accurate and inclusive census in every single one of our nations communities. Thank you. I would thank all four of you for your Opening Statements and i thank you for doing it in under 5 00. Which is something that members of congress can do. So i hope you consider running some time. Mr. Cummings, my friend from maryland. Certain populations groups have historically been under counted in the decenni a. L census, specifically those of africanamericans, hispanics and american i understand januarys on reservations American Indians on reservations are counted at lower rates than others. What are the reasons that the groups are under counted . Well, i think that one significant reason and its particularly of concern right now is the mistrust of the federal government and whether communities will be whether their information when filling out of the census will be safe and not used for enforcement purposes or and the like. Its particularly, i would say, right now, among immigrant communities. But its a real concern around the Digital Divide and what that might do with the and i would say, its more acute in Rural Communities. As well as, you know, real concerns around cybersecurity and whether their information is going to be breeched and the like. A lot of these harder to count communities with communities of color theres a lot of mobility in the communities and they need to have trusted partners in the field. Whether its through organizations like the ones that make up the Leadership Conference or through trusted partnerships with the Census Bureau to have trusted mess eninjures that are explaining the purpose of the census, why its important to be counted and thats why the Partnership Program and the communication aspects need to be funded because without that, theres no chance of getting an accurate count and that will ultimately fail the entire census and the country. One thing that secretary ross said to chairman and i the other day. Is that the cost of labor, he thinks, has to go up. Because you have to get a certain kind of person to, like you just talked about. And to get that, i was just trying, as you were talking, i was trying to figure out how do you penetrate that, how do you get past that problem . Because, if people are not trusting of government, if they are worried about immigration issues. And maybe not for themselves but for family members. And then, theres some people that just dont know what the census is. All they know is the government is knocking on their door. And they are and any time the government is knocking on the door, they assume its something bad. I know, because i lived in a neighborhood like that. So, how do you get past that . Well, i really think its critical that the census have the bureau have the infrastructure of around the Communications Machinery and the Partnership Program and we were encouraged, i was encouraged today when i heard the secretary talk about a projected Communications Budget of 500 million. I think its important to ensure that theres enough money to promote census participation in our many Diverse Communities and to address some of the unprecedented challenges that the 2020 census will be facing around, as i said, the mistrust of government, cybersecurity fears. Fear of federal Government Agencies and i think its deeply important that the Commerce Department and the Census Bureau consult closely with stakeholders who know the communities well, who are in the communities. Who can be trusted mess eninjen and know the value of being counted. Thats the only way that we will ensure that theres a fair and accurate count and theres already deep concerns about the cancelled testing and the like that could have other implications for the accuracy of the census in the next, in 2020. Talking about the cancelled testing. I understand that one test that the bureau cancelled in 2017, due to insufficient funds was to be conducted on tribal land. Including on the Standing Rock reservation. Is that what you are referring to . Considering that native americans were the most under counted group in the 20 ten census. This is very significant. What are the implications of cancelling this and other tests. Particularly for rural areas and American Indian reservations. Theres a statistic that we have that most of the hardest to count communities were rural counts. Theres a lot of concerns that you have heard about cybersecurity and whether the technology will work. While we all want a modernized census, you have to test it. And it will be important to get it demonstrate 20get it done in. The fact that they cancelled because of insufficient funding 3 of the 4 end to end test runs is of great concern. This lack of preparation, you know, could very well hamper the accuracy and fairness of the census count in 2020. I have one question. One last question. Cost savings of such cancellations are penny wise and pound foolish. Its been reported that higher Response Rates save money. Can you try to explain that to us . Sure, the most Cost Effective way to count people is when they fill out of the questionnaire. That is either mailed to them or when they self respond via the internet. Every time, and if they dont, self respond, through either of the methods, then the Census Bureau has to send out enumerators to knock on their doors as many as six time sos you can see how costs add up quickly. Its both in terms of the time, that the enumerators are paid for and the wages and the miles that they are reimbursed. The northeast Cost Effectiveness is to increase the initial count. The gentleman yields back. Mr. Pounder. Im sitting here trying to figure out whether anything could be more inherently predictable than the census. Its hard to think of anything that you see coming that far in advance. Not to ask it in too sophisticated a way, how in the hell did we get here, how do you get on a critical watch list if we know its coming every ten years . The same thing happened in 2010 and we were involved in it in 2010. So thats when we cancelled the handheld project. The Committee Held multiple hearings on the overruns and the cancellation. The interesting comment that secretary ross talked about 80 of the money going from beyond 2018. From an i. T. Perspective, that should not be the case. We should start early. Plan more appropriately, and get the right contracts in place, and deliver. What happens with the alically again. Can we get it secured late and run it late . Yes. But its a higher cost. I would have Major Concerns about the 15. 6 and still hitting it with the 10 when you look at the i. T. Management of this. The thing that is good, is having the Commerce Departments governance and oversight will greatly help, we have not chang changed basic management. We still have concerns about additional cost overruns going forward. But it is, its not acceptable that we repeat the same sins of the past that we do every ten years with the decennial. Its hard to explain to the same people that you are trying to convince to voluntarily comply. So, which leads to my next question. What are the impediments to, what i call voluntary compliance. Im sure thats not the right technical term. Sure. There are a number of barriers, one was declining civic engagement, people are increasingly disconnected from the government. So that requires trust. Building trust, between the Census Bureau and the public. Theres also a cultural divide, when it was already mentioned too. When the government comes knocking on your door, you know, the census is seen as engine that is not done for you or on your behalf, its seen as something done to you. Its not always seen in a positive light. And then theres a structural barrier, People Living in makeshift housing. Nonconventional housing. People doubling up. People living in basements and converts attics so they are physically hard to find. Theres language barriers out there, so just reaching the folks is difficult as well. And this is why all of this up front work is so important. And why the Census Bureau is at the point that it is right now. Its very difficult to make up for either funding that was not provided or time that is already elapsed. You can get behind the curve quickly. Well, accepting the fact that we cannot do all of the preplanning for 2020, that needed to be done in 2012, 2013. The best that we can do is the 2030 census there. With specific reference to the 2020, that is coming up. If i heard the testimony right, theres an opening and a census directors office. So, we are going to start with ms. Gupta, if you were the census director, you had to do one thing, you goity to do it today on the chance that mr. Rawls or his folks may be listening, what is the single most important thing that you would do today for the 2020 census . Its hard to say a single thing. I think, a couple of things need to happen at once. The i. T. Infrastructure needs to be tested, clearly for all of the reasons that have been previously stated and i think that the partnership and Communications Campaigns need to be out there starting in the next couple of months. They have to ramp up the whole infrastructure in order to really educate focuses about why its important to be counted and to over come some of the concerns around mistrust in government and cybersecurity. So, and i, you know, i want to add that when the secretary was testifying, he said that he anticipated 800 partnerships specialists and which is well below the 2010 number of 3,800, so those plans are still inadequate and i think right now, theres a lot of concern that the hardest to count communities are not going to be adequately counted and it will be a failed census with the 1. 6 billion if allocated. There has to be an immediate investment in the infrastructure and real planning around it, just as with the i. T. Ms. Rice, what is single most or two if you want what needs to be done today given the fact that we cannot change the lack of preplanning . I think the i. T. Infrastructure has to be in place. We do not want to be in a position where we were in 2010, when they had to revert to a paper based operation at the last minute. And they didnt have the they had some infrastructure there and they had to build on it and it was a problem. There were backlogs and you know, the office sizes were not come patable. It was trickle down all the problems. They got it done, but it was not pretty. So getting that infrastructure in place. You cannot use the word infrastructure. What would you do . So, with the it, with the i. T. And thats my world mr. Chairman. I would say those 43 systems need to be delivered and secured. And you know, we have this day you that in our testimony that looks all neat and everything. Its very difficult to get a handle on where all the systems are from a delivery point of view, integration and security. That needs to be managed weekly. Someone needs to dog that weekly in terms of what we have gotten done and what remains next week and will we hit the dates. Theres key dates in early 2018 that will be key to getting it delivered to being included in the end to end test so you have to dog the 43 systems from a security perspective. Chairman, representive hertz comments with the process, its fine to bring in people, but you have to do the assessments and fix the vulnerabilities and sign off on the atos that needs to be managed weekly to ensure we dont have a major breech. The falling public trust will not be fixed overnight, it did not happen overnight. What are the things that congress has not thought about or what would you do to try to restore public trust so we can raise the voluntary compliance rate in 2020 . Sure, its, i dont you know, off the top of my head, i dont think theres anything new and i would be leery of trying anything that has not been used before at this point because it would be one more risk for the bureau to have to manage. What i think needs to be done is focus on the tried and true methods. Things that are known to work and i would point to the partnerships specialties and the whole communication and outreach campaign. The Partnership Specialists are so critical for engaging the different people that they represent. Their different stakeholder groups. And they are the ones who create the trust, they are the trusted voices if you know, secretary ross or any of us goes up on tv, or you know, makes and encour e encourages people to you know, respond to the census. Its not going to have the same level of response as people who know the community. Your local minister, your school principal. It was mentioned before, that the Census Bureau hopes to hire as many as 800 Partnership Specialists. That sounds like a large number. But if you just look at the work load, if you think of the over 3,000 counties in the country, thats a huge work load for them. Its a three dimensional issue. They have to cover physical geography the different channels of communication and the deep type of in to all the different the deep dive in to all the different communities. A focus on the Partnership Campaign and making sure its adequately funded, and gets the resources they need will be critical for increasing the count in hard to count communities. Mr. Palmer. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Rice, can you provide your initial thoughts and observations of the 2018 end to end testing . Sure. So, we did visit all three locations. And found just to remind everyone about 2010, they did use a device in 2010. The field Data Collection automatication worked for address canvassing, they abandoned it. So using a device in the field for address canvassing, they did last decennial, so it went all things considered, okay. It did not see any major was there any aspect of the testing that stood out to you as raising any potential issue for future address canvassing . We did think that in the rural areas, that theres something called an optimizer that sends the lister to a location, that it was not as fes efficient as it could have been, we are looking in to it to find out why. There were folks traveling hours to get to a location. Which seems inefficient. Your office raised issues, questioning the inoffice address canvassing and cost estimates and warning an increase in the infield canvassing could increase costs. Will the percentage address this infield work . And in your review, as you consider your, that issue . Yes, so the inoffice address canvassing basically determines whether something, a block looks like it grew or changed. So, if indeed, the test, the results dont show that that process worked well, there will be morin field address canvassing and that will raise costs. The bureau is in the process of putting out a study to show the effectiveness of inoffice address canvassing and we will look at it to see how it worked. Its a concern. If it not predicting the infield work load, that can be a problem. That part of the the increase in the cost estimate . Is that already taken in to account, that in addition to what they are saying we are needing now . Yeah, my understanding is because of the inoffice address canvassi canvassing assi canvassing conassisted of two pieces. It was an active politblock resolution where they try to find the imaginary and find the households. They cancelled the block review and those Housing Units will go in had to infield address canvassing. It will create an increase. Panel one with secretary ross, got a little intense, and some of the questions that were asked. And part of the issue is that the Census Bureau has, i think, pretty evident, a poor track record in addressing flaws and problems that have been identified by the oig office and the gao. Would you like to enlighten us a bit on had this relationship between your office and the Census Bureau and their willingness to followup on the things that you have suggested . Sure. In that respect, you know, we are encouraged by a willingness to work with us and other stakeholder groups just examples of the way that we engage the Census Bureau on a monthly basis, we meet with the acting director and Deputy Director and before that, with the director of the Census Bureau. We share information about ongoing problems. We do have regular discussions about the progress that they are making on implementing our recommendations. They are much more transbe parent than they used to be. I have been involved with Census Bureaus since 1987, and theres been a change in terms of the culture of the Census Bureau and the willingness to work with outside groups and in going in to the 2000 census it was very standoffish tried to keep gao at bay and other organizations. Now they embrace our recommendations and that goes all the way up to the department of commerce level as well. We have had meetings with commerce secretary and they have been very effective and willing to work with us. And you said currently, i think, im not sure exactly the way you used it. But, one of the question thas raised to secretary ross is the fact that the gao had a high risk list, you issued 30 recommendations over three years and only 6 of them were fully implemented by january and obviously, under secretary ross, he inherited that problem. I think what we on the committee would like to determine is how much willingness is there to work with the gao or mr. Pounter with the oigs office to resolve the issues and do it in a timely manner. And is that what you are finding n now . Yes, they are embracing our changes now and this was not the case a decade ago. I think both offices expressed concerns that the bureau is failing to adequately Testing Systems and products. And that was one of the issues raised by my colleague from georgia. I think, i appreciated the answer that you cannot test a system until the is system is in place. But, one of the things that, again, we have stressed to the secretary, we wanted him to test the systems. And we want the test results to be used in the Decision Making process. Are you finding them to be working in an agreeable manner on that . So, first of all, once we get all the systems delivered, theres a plan to test it in an integrated fashion. I will give the bureau credit, they hired an integration contractor to help with it, thats a good thing. The issue is can they get all that delivered and integrated and secured in the time that remains. Its highly likely not everything will be in the 2018 end to end test . That means they will test it post end to end test. Its not that it cannot be done. We will monitor that closely. When did they award the contract to the contractor . That would have been in the summer of 16 . Is there a reason that they cannot get the work done so it could be tested precensus . They are trying to get it done for precensus. They are working hard to get it done. That contractor is relying on other contractors to deliver their system. And again, we miss milestones and got late starts and they kind of inherited a bad problem. So they are coming in to mop up. I appreciate dwrour willingness to come before the committee today and answer our questions. I want to thank you for your time today, for your expertise and commitment to an accurate census in 2020. The hearing record will remain open for two weeks. If thats no further business, thank you again for your testimony today and we are adjourned. Kr cspans washington journal, live every day, with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up thursday morning. They discuss the new report looking at the fiscal condition of the Social Security and Medicare Trust funds. Then, douglas lute talks about vulnerability with u. S. Voting machines. Be sure to watch cspans washington journal, live at 7 00 eastern, thursday morning. Join the discussion. The Senate Armed Services Committee Hears for defending the u. S. Against cyber attacks. You can see it live, starting at 9 30 a. M. Eastern here on cspan 3. Former president obama campaigns for lute governor raffle northam, who is running for virginia governor. Live coverage is at 6 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, online at cspan. Org or the free cspan radio app. Cspan citys tour is in portland, maine this weekend. Join us as we explore the l literary scene. Saturday at noon eastern on book tv. We talk about the 700 million lobster industry. In his book, the lobster coast. Maines lobster fishery is an example of fishery circles around the world of a sustainable fishery. But this came out of a terrible tragedy. This was a hard learned experience because none of those conservation measures were in place at the end of the 19th century. And we will visit the childhood home of poet. He was the most famous english language writer in the world and he is best represent remembered for peopoems like th childrens hour. He is very much a part of our every day lexicon and american memory. On sunday, at 2 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv. We will explore portland headlight. The states oldest lighthouse. Watch cspan citys tour of portland, maine. Saturday noon eastern on cspan 2s book tv and sunday afternoon at 2 00 p. M. On American History tv on cspan 3. Working with our capable affiliates and visiting cities across the country. Next, a hearing to examine state department and usaid funding for africa. The hearing for the Foreign Affairs subcommittee for Global Health and human rights and International Organizations is 90 minutes. Good morning. Good afternoon to everyone. Thank you for being here. Really deeply appreciate our witnesses that are here today to give us an inside look at the budget as it relates to africa, and where the challenges are. Where funding will