This is the second half of the years. Every saturday 95. Something going on every week. Today we are happy to have back with us a professor who is professor of history. Six times. Here it is always a pleasure. Talks, exploring early American History. Today she will talk to us about a theme coming up in her book. Marquette and Louis Jolliet and their explorations and what they found in their expectations in explorations. At the end we will take questions. Thank you for coming back. [applause] thank you david for having me here again. When imways so happy here. My family affectionately knows the talk as my annual. It is my annual everyone looks forward to. Opportunity. The i should explain. Usually they contact me and say can you give a talk on x and i say, not in the detail you would be happy with but i can connect see, and we have negotiation and something comes out and that is the talk for the year. Tos year i was grateful david because he gave me the opportunity to talk about something ive spoken about before. Theerland, frontiers, colonial empire and interesting things that came out of that relationship. He gave me the opportunity to talk about a book project near ad dear to my heart and friend of mine who helped me camera out the book. Title withars that the subtitle expiration, and the new world. It will come out in november of year. The indexing and designing of the cover and so on are coming to an end. I am looking forward to it coming to fruition. I will give you an idea of why this book is coming out in the first place. It is part of a series. The germ of this project came out where all kinds of projects start and that is the breakout bars or restaurant or associated with one of the big academic conferences. Society of the historians of the early American Republic where i met the editor. He said we need early people for this expository biography series robustills down to history and he said, can you do a spaniard . I said, no. I thought about it and said here we are in saint louis. The colonialf empire. I work on no one as closely as the new world jesuits. I think there is synergy. A dualtched the idea of marquetteof jacques and his partner a n louis is officially jolliet. Artner louis my pronunciation came from the Blues Brothers where they mention the prison that was named in honor of the explorer, naming. Ut dubious this is not only a geographical like chavez,e Laura Ingalls wilder, woody it is kind of about the midwestern and jesuit story that needed to be told. With great excitement i worked on that for a number of years. Beene in an area that has close to new rochelle. New rochelle is obviously a town day westchester right so the importance of new rochelle stands out. It was very much a periphery of the french north American Experience of the 17th and 18th century. Founded bye was french huguenot, that is french huguenots not permitted to settle it in french canada itself. Catholics. Served for i am bringing this up because there was a big french world out there. Anyone who knows anything about American History knows that is a withrench colonial history a big world out there. In the 17th century, very evolving and very much the product of competing visions including relationships with native americans, industry, trade, and administrative colonial structure as well as religious issues and how religion would pay part in the French Colonial enterprise. It is a larger french world i am addressing today. By theriefly made larger marquette andes luis is juliet so let me talk about what they were doing in the 17th century. Technicaling some difficulties but david prepared to includeand happen two images i planned to talk about. Was an image of Louis Jolliet , there is removal of the hair typical of males and 19 century. We dont have an image we can rely on but we do not know what either of these men looked like. We have no real record of their physical appearances but we do know there backgrounds and their backgrounds were fascinating. Of a marquette we think of almost this prototype of a saint to going out into the wilderness to bring souls to french catholicism and spread the influence of france. Others is see it differently. Hegemony, opening a door slightly to cultures at the beginning and then taking it open with the arrival of europeans. A nutshell. Uette in and of the other, what is to be said . Buckskin . Tobacco . He is about for, trappers, traders, rough group people in general. Influence of new france but spread it through taking on many relationships with native american women throughout the areas where they were trapping far. So that relationship is also kind of under screwed new. In actuality, the two men were far more complex. Jacques marquette was born in france. He is the son of a wealthy french family. Quitemily was always remarkably with the habit of getting into trouble and out of trouble richer than i was before. And more powerful. This had been the Market Family story the marquette family story for three centuries. They had important friends, inroads with rich and aristocratic houses. The marquette family was wealthy, prestigious, married into equally prestigious emilys , thus including families, thus increasing their wealth. Jacques marquette has a great deal of piety. Been selectedhas by the fact that french are sending over missionaries, jesuits are being consumed by literate french readership. That is certainly the marquette family. Very movedette seems by this. He was a child in the family singled out or an advanced education. All of these children were educated. He had two sisters who were religious and educated as such. So family of his status wouldve taken education for their children quite seriously. And he is the one who moves on, not the one destined to take on the family name but the one destined to go in a different religious director. What we know of his writings are inflected with a good deal of humor. He is struggling to understand the world around him, sometimes in a very humorous way. I will talk about that more later on. You as quite desperate to be a missionary. He is also someone who from the evidence that exists seems to suffer from some sort of chronic ailments. And look at go back records it says he died of not know. I do even when he was the jesuits goal and was a jazz with scholastic he was suffering from some rain that chronically upset. Is digestive system chronic light is, crohns disease, something of that nature, we do not know but we do know it was mysterious enough for the jesuits to hold off on sending him to the new world saying either you are not physiologically ready to take on you want toof what do. Pushes, this and is what he wants to do. He is one of the last of what i perceived to be the jesuit marder generation. The guys who werent to go over and they want to or are willing to die in the name of spreading their faith. The later generation that i have spoken about you for, maybe not so much. They are political players and they want to shape policy but he really has the marder impulse to him. 30s, a yearis mid after the famous exploration. He got his wish. Native people spreading the gospel. Jolliet is fascinating himself. Heis not in a mall gum of a is not an amalgamation of a furniture wrapper. Humble, but it was a skilled trade. Somebody very valuable, very valuable skill to plot in these troubling times. He was born in quebec into a family where he, too, is singled out for education and contemplates becoming a jazz went himself in has lifelong ties to the jazz would order even know ultimately that does not suit him for the rest of his life. His father dies when he is very young. You might think, that is really difficult in the 17th century to lose your father who is a protector of ones family but no. His father had a trade, his mother mightve had other attributes that were appealing. She was a marriageable prospect timese married up several and the each time after she is widowed she marries someone else who is even wealthier and more misty just and brings more money into that relationship and more prestige. Her last husband was a widower himself in his first wife was converted toan catholicism in they had many children together. Iet was a stepbrother too many siblings from other marriages so he has an incredibly wellconnected young man. So one is a for trapper, rough, crude, but a superb keyboard player. A harpsichord is. An organist. Whenever he was in quebec keep provided music for services. It cuts across the grain of the stereo type of the first trapper paying irreligious and licentious person out in the wilderness having a good time killing for and getting money from them. He was a deeply ambitious man, skilled businessman, and also really knows the trade of four from the ground up. Where did he learned . Adrianan older brother who was one of those kind of master trappers and traders. It seems like usually a it louise juliet was very enticed to him and wanted to learn the business from the ground up. His brother, a married man was several children back in french canada never comes back. He just kind of disappears into the wilderness. And the same thing happens to Louis Jolliet. We have no idea where he died, where his body is, he simply never return to quebec one day. That is a sad fate for a man who chose this profession. Sometimes you just die somewhere in and art never heard from again. Is certainly the case of at least two of the sons from this particular family. So, i hope i kind of encapsulated the story. One the chronically a frenchman who really wants to die as a missionary and the other is this deeply ambitious skilled, literate man and knows the furniture in the end that knows everything about the first trade and is deeply connected to the management of the colony of quebec as well. Louisays talk about jolliet first. , jacques marquette, there are more memorials to him. Comes firstlways but in actuality the leader of this exploration were going to Louis Jolliet. He was the one deputized to explore this region and find out what was there. Is this the Northwest Passage . Cutsabled waterway that through the entire continent and leads to them for million or the south sea. The pacific rim now california, thats what it was called. As is something the french anbec control to build empire off of . Wouldnt that be terrific . Lets get an answer to that. The french government blesses but they do not find an expedition to explore this river. Can do itiet knows he alone. He has the obvious choice because of his intelligence, knowledge of the landscape, and connections. He chooses as his travel thener, he inquires about jacques marquette, who is a point. Uantity at this he is very zealous, very active, he immediately heads to the Great Lakes Region. For Louis Jolliet, this is the kind of energy desired. I am the knowledge, this man has the desire to go, he also asked connectivity with native american groups, he is been working among native american groups for about eight years at this point so this is the ideal partner for me. The jesuits automatically agree. Sufferoung, if he does from a chronic disease and things like it has been in remission for a while in he seems capable of making the journey and he definitely wants to go. One another in the early winter of 1673 at a mission. It is on mackinac island. They immediately like one another. It is clear they can work with one another and well complement one another with strength and weaknesses. For contrast, along with them go five other men. We only definitively know the names of three of them. We only really know anything about one of them, who actually the up being inspired by and ends up being a joliet brother even know he comes from that rough and crude background. So, anyway, it becomes obvious that men can Work Together and the expedition is going to be a go. They are charged with exploring the new waterways which has been seen by a few europeans but not explored at this point to see where it goes. Is this something that will have great benefits for the french . They take on this responsibility. The travel part itself is relatively brief. Not all of you came into this room knowing something about them but their time together was four months. In may and was over by august. When they travel back up the mississippi they travel by two separate routes to get more exploratory information and because marquette had other things he wanted to do with what time he had left. His disease was getting to them at that point. Were talking about four months and 700 miles. Many of us have gone on Summer Vacation might cover 700 miles in a really good days driving. Good days driving, very fast not advised. But it does not seem like that amount of time. Part of that on foot. Hindus kunduz canoes by sinews carrying them over your head. Marquette love to almost all the writing from this that god would provide. They were going out into the wilderness where they knew some of the native languages involved. He had full faith the date of people would provide for them. Provide we will talk about in a certainly that is making good sense given that they had so many other challenges. They are navigating the waterway. The Mississippi River has an incredible number of bens. Of bends. Points. Try far as theot as Arkansas River. It is very tricky. It requires great physical strength to actually work that waterway. So that is what they leave with. Not with very much but with this great ambition that they are going to cover as much ground as they conceivably can and get as much information as they conceivably can. They started the box river which comes out of green bay which is now green bay, wisconsin. Overland briefly to the Wisconsin River and in and enter the Mississippi River. Along the way, marquette is writing about the things that fascinate him. The landscape, obviously. The natural environment. Animals he sees. Making comparisons of the animals with eggs he is familiar. Renaming thing. The nativeething and american has a name for it, you rename it. All europeans seem to do that with alarming frequency so they wont accept or respect those original names of things and identifying things in the landscape that might be useful for trade. Always on the lookout for mineral wealth. Thisis a very big deal for exploration copper has been found in the Great Lakes Region. The french have known about the copper for a couple decades. Copper penny,k virtually useless, the government thinking of taking it out of circulation but copper is a very important metal in the 17th century. Pure form. Or me and so to find a lot of copper would be a good thing for the french empire. Would be another potential birth. Source apart from so they are always on the lookout for mineral wealth. Whenever they see clips, of which there are many along the Mississippi River especially in places like alton, illinois, they are assessing to see if they might see any minerals they can recognize. Always on the lookout for what native people have. Do they have things that might be of use . Do they have metals, might they be using them for orientation . Have they acquired them from trade . Where does it come from . They are curious and they want to know if it can be gotten in the vicinity. So that is something they look for. There also fascinated by the animals. , fish ofbuffalo various kinds, birds. An amazing profusion. In the book i make a point of marquette in the late 17th century and then john audubon who forged mississippi and wrote about and etched the same species, some of which became asked state like the carolina parakeet through european and American Intervention with those environments. We know about these from the visual records that audubon kept and what marquette wrote about. Why am i not mentioning joliet as much . Because marquette did not mention him as much. I wondered and puzzled about that a lot and i think part of that is because they work so well together that any effort was kind of implied that they had done this to gather. That this was not just a product ormarquette doing his thing jolie at doing together. Ive marquette is kind of the whend keeper and at a time record keepers are very important because they are few thisr between we get record up from him the records of french canada at the day. As dont we hear jolliet much . Because of the sad circumstances of what it meant to live in the 17th and eighth century world. Notr frequently does survive at a time when washdown,walk burn down with alarming frequency, the paper goes with them so that was likely the state with all of the records that jolliet kept. He had the foresight to make two copies of everything he wrote about it and what happens . One fell out of canoe and a canoe accident and the other set is kept at the does with mission at mackinac and that is bert down. So gone forever. Are things we cans guide to his he owned, but not this particular thing so all of that is coming with from marquette but with the assumption that jolliet is always present. Lets talk about the native people. I opened this book trying to do what the historians call facing country. Indian what it means to be a native american facing this. What that might have been. The first thing i looked about is we are told they called jesuits black elms. Any nativeis that person living on the banks of the Mississippi River in Southern Illinois during the summer would have looked at a jazz what it said, what are you thinking wearing that thing . All right gosh. Morey is so much comfortable. They wouldve looked at jolliet with his facial hair, it was documented they found it incredibly unattractive. Boy aree you ugly you ugly. You dont have the necessity of wearing the ugly heavy off it up here brief. Ugly out fit up here of your priesthood. We seen these people before . Yes, we have seen people like them. Different something that seems like their language. In fact, most of the communities they encounter during their journey have had some interaction with europeans before. Whether it is pleasant or unpleasant, really is sometimes a mystery. Note are people who are completely disoriented by the arrival of newcomers who look different, sound different, and dont have any models of previous encounter experience. Wherever they go in the first half of the journey, they interpret the reaction of the native people as very welcoming that they are welcomed, people are happy to going to have a practitioner of the gospel in them its, they are happy about that. From the native american perspective, we cannot rule out any human response but what we can develop is a range of possible emotion. Are these people going to be useful to us against our enemies . To bring with them interesting goods we will be able to get on a regular basis . Are they going to form kinship networks with us that will increase our power and prestige in this area . These are all likely scenarios for native people would have played out. There mustve been an element of welcome because marquette and jolliet survived. It wouldve been easy to kill them. There was nobody following them, no form of communication anywhere back to the settled areas of new france, they wouldve just never been heard of again. Uncommon. It couldve been the scenario here but it was not. Housed, and most importantly when they come ofoss the largest settlement what is modernday peoria, it is called the peoria village, they but theycalendar are given a native american type. It can be used in several ceremonial ways. Some are peaceful, some are not so peaceful. It depends upon how it is used but they are given one. When they leave, this illinois village which is a couple hundred miles into their journey, they are told to hold on to it. Dont let it out of your sight. It might become useful. As they travel further south, they encounter communities that seem less and theirager to have them in midst. So several nights they choose to sleep in their canoes rather than coming to shore more they could be sensing danger. Where does the danger come from . According to marquette, it seems they fear native people being a hostile to their presence much less than they fear somebody else. Surprise to me. Who do they fear . They fear the spanish. That to me was a shock. Even though i write about , they both have similar goals and work handinhand with one another. Indeed, that is not the case. By the end of the 17th century, the spanish are actually seriously concerned about whether the french are making major power plays in the new world. I specifically say new world world, not just north america but also in the caribbean. A great source of spanish wealth in addition to the silver mines of mexico in brazil and south america are these sugar colonies of the caribbean. The french indeed are very much looking to firm up till worlds in the caribbean and get some of the sugar for themselves. But what could they possibly doing in south america that can harm the spanish . Well, suffice it to say that marquette and jolliet are aware that the spanish are not looking at random frenchman, even a priest with a friendly guy at this point. There are at very least would be some competition. A perceived moving in in terms of trade. Lucrative trade with native people. That is something they very much do not want. When they get to the mouth of the Arkansas River e. On where they have started, they know they are not going any further. They are warned by the native people there who first come out with firearms, clearly from somewhere. French origin, that withneed to per proceed caution. It is the calumet that gets them to safety. They are told to pieces of vital information. First, this river goes to something described that sounds very much like the gulf of mexico, of which most europeans have a working knowledge. It does not go to california. So parish that thought. Jolliet who is inexpert in rivers is thinking the same thing. The other piece of information is that we spanish are here. Watch it. So it is sufficiently threatening and also the fact that this season has gone on so long and they are heading to they areaces and getting further away from home. It is time to turn around. Been aedition has success. Marquette has made inroads with people he thinks will be friendly and receptive to his message. So he has confident that the upper mississippi is not only filled with native americans who will be friendly to the french cause but he has identified farming possibilities and realized this and might go to the gulf of mexico but it is still a really good river and it is a really good river that would do really, really well in french hands. The information about the Mississippi River happens to come into the French Colonial administration and the colonial management back in france at an interesting time. The french were contemplating, what are we going to do with what we have no. We have french canada but there so not a lot of people there we might claim something on a map, but how do we possibly defend something on a map without a lot people and how do we get a lot of people. We are not going to let ourestants migrate to corner of the french new world because that might be detrimental. Thinking. At they are the other thing is, if you drain off a bunch of french farmers, who will form. A thing as well so they think they must retrench. Stay in the settled areas of french canada, focus on the things that are there, they might deal with something at some further time by for now it is what it is. They would like to commandeer it but it is not something that is a tremendous power play. In power plays are attempted by others, most notably nine years later in the 11 years later. Anyone ever hear of the faded mission to the golf of mexico . Ablic television did marvelous nova production about this with the archaeological evidence. Younger courtier, did not have the likability quotient by he had powerful friends and supporters who gave him Material Support to take the information gleaned by howard to fellows, build at the mouth of the Mississippi River and use it to solidify french claims, connect with the great lakes and you have the interior of the continent. Lasalle wanted to take that one step further. He was after the seemingly idle threat of the new world. Lasalle thought it would be a jumping off point to hit the jumping off point and new mexico, said there is a jumping off point. It was not so idle a threat after all it was not seemingly so. Are thinking about it and pondering possibilities. , moste of us might know meets withition tragedy. Thebody is thrown into river. Length backlked the to the great lakes. Iforda sell had lasalle had survived, we might have had a very different continental colonial story. Different heritage i remember in graduate school i wasg a professor interested in the french and he said, well that is not very american. There is something called louisiana. By the time a i finished up my phd program i had to give that personal due credit. We mightve all had very different passports in drivers license. As it was, the expedition fell apart, the french really did make it on that retrenchment vision and it was not until the early decades of the 18th century that they once again tried to solidify the claim to the mississippi. Louisiana,is comprising a third of what is now known as the United States and hawaii. But it was never fully a french colony. Game. Always say numbers the french were never quite willing to carry that off. To marquette and jolliet, i kind of alluded to that at the beginning of the talk by marquette as i mentioned, was dead within two years. And, i it is a misnomer to ends. Like the way he it is a misnomer but i find it fascinating. He died as he was attempting to establish another mission. A mission near the mississippi tess near a place called catskill. He dies very close to easter. Record of his death in the way he died is almost as long as the record he left of exploring the mississippi over the course of four months. The reason for that i believe is that it was supposed to lay groundwork for what is journey to and the sainthood. If somebody has the right kind of death, that would confirm they were a person of such holiness they might be considered for sainthood down the road in i believe marquette has been considered for sainthood at various times following is death. He dies amongst native people, that. A debt that is very john out from this disease that seems to have haunted him through much of his adult life in and he is buried by the side of what is now lake michigan. His remains were left there. About one year later, a group of native people exhume him and they reported again, this would have been very important for it, he had barely cade at all. But what they do is prepare him for burial in a native american sort of way. They preserve the bones but not the flesh. They wrap his remains using a native american technique and to theing him back mission where this all happened and thats where his bones actually reside to this day. So we have this great irony of this man who did regardless of how modern people perceive it, to transform native American Culture in some way, transform it to make them more catholic, more french, to change the world through, what have you, ultimately being transformed himself in death. Jolliet goes on for several decades for a better. He is a major player in quebec industry, politics, he gets all sorts of land grants to develop the mouth ofons in the st. Lawrence river and do all sorts of other things. Is dying, he is courting and he marries an equally prestigious young woman who brings her own fortune into the marriage, her own businesses, even as they young woman she had amassed property in young french woman could do, young englishwoman could not. Together they built an empire. E goes on another expedition the tables are flipped. French religion and french rectitude going to this Little English fishing statement saying join the ranch. It happened before, well make a good, instead they tried to work on the french and say, join the english, we can use men of your talent and we will make it your the point i make to my statement said anyone i speak to is that he was never exploring for exploration sake, nobody did that. He was exploring for business possibilities and he was fighting them wherever he looked. He had a talent for exploiting geography comics warning his knowledge of how waterways work and how people and goods and could be moved around and used to benefit new france and his affiliated industries and families. So that is always what his eye is toward. Professor oftime history at the college of quebec, the Jesuit College where it all started for him. But it is not enough for him. Connections,hese this influence, this money, he too dies in obscurity. So these two men who are known to us and known throughout American History is great in forrs really stand the great mysteries that still exist in American History. What happens when you dont have records . Fragments . Ly have that is when historians fillin. That is what ive tried to do today. I thank you for your time and attention. It was a pleasure. [applause] any questions you might have. Yes . ] ndiscernible no personal connection. My family was farming cabbages and poland. I am not part of that french story. My husband and i are both products of jesuit education site suppose that is where i was bitten by the jazz would bug. Anyone who goes to a jesuit institution, they take their history very seriously. There were two groups of people who knew they were making history. One was puritans, the other was jesuits. They seem like a study in contrast but they are shockingly alike in some ways. Reflectr institutions that. Yes . You mentioned on the way down most of these people had encountered europeans before. Was there any reason why those . Uys did not notice many expeditions left and never got heard from versus the ones that came back . Much, notat were as before marquette and jolliet had this mandate to explore the river and find information that could be useful. For the most part, there is some discussion among the jesuits went wholly a just does not get as much attention as he deserves. He was in the Great Lakes Region working hundreds of miles of circuit. He was a just what as well. His writing describes so many of and he is always on the move. He does not have a mandate for exploration, he is a mandate for something else. Any europeans who were passing through who were looking to trap and trade or bringing goods with illiterate,tly were literary rates in french canada are shockingly low especially compared to their neighbors to the southeast which would be new england. You have some literate people but very few. And then there is the raking out skills in the 18thcentury century where a good number of people can read it were never taught to write. I told my students said they were like, nobody would ever take a stick and try to scratch their name out . And i would say, you would never get a nail. You would be too busy trying to find food then trying to scratch her name out in the dirt and trying to make your sense of an alphabet to which you have never been fully introduced. What about the disparity between the french and English Population . Indian war, i think there were 40,000 frenchmen . About 70,000 in the french north american about a million and a half . Million and a half animal absolutely. Wall. Ndwriting is on the but if you think about the possibility, what is that foundational idea . Movement of the mississippi that made it easier for the french to settle. Reservedperfectly french city and the mississippi valley, not new orleans but a iny below new orleans missouri, i think it is missouri. It might be arkansas. This is a air above farmland. Good farmland. Be able to send some farmers there to start farming communities and he is told no by the french government. But one of the french had made good on it . Firms grew longer and healthy. It wouldve been anyone sick game. There were not enough people. We have to remember this is a time when one in every 10 frenchmen is protestant and they migrate toowed to the french catholic new world. They are not welcome so there are local places. That is where they are going and they are enriching these Colonial Enterprises and not the french whereas if the french had getwed them to migrate to out of the tencent situation at home, who is to say they would not be so grateful for being able to leave and carve out their own identity that they would not have been perfect French Colonial citizens. It is always counterfashionable, too. That is what if. The spanish had the same problem, not enough people. Europeholic, anywhere in iscernible] laura i would like to see the names of some of the generals in the war. A reflect the origins. Yes . Oftalking about the whole the new world what you said about the colonists, british colonists if they came they could actually claim in no uncertain parts of land that were there but the french i do not think that was true. The still own the land to lords other personal stake was not and that decision may have been system, this in euro f i d g and. The system meant there was land to a noble person, aristocrat or member of the french gentry if you will. I dont not that is the proper term but the land belonged to that person. You might be a french settler who migrates to the new world of a senoraspices but you are technically be an employee and definitely a tenet. The land was not your own. But french farmers who came to the new world who also had a chevalier ice father dead, you could do very very well for yourself. Not being able to only and was less of that issue. There were other types of fortune to be made other than land fortune. In the english world we have some question. Land grantson of under the dominion. You had to reapply. So in and of itself that is not hard and fast. The value of land is constantly changing. The markets will bear that rate. It complicates a little bit. I saw your hand up. In this time we are talking about, how far west had the british spread . By the late 17th century, the british are, my first look addresses a good chunk of this as it pertains to the north and northwestern boundary. They claim in contact with france, this is not settled of the century, or within 100th miles. They claim land because all the way into New Brunswick and canada. No no, ohio is not going to be something until the 17th century. It is a vague reserve the right to go there kind of thing. There are not hard and fast boundaries. Specify a kind of ship to see kind of thing that it is not until the 1790s actually. Is wherey it settlement has gone in and where people have gone in and where people have chosen to stay. Do nottern boundaries get somewhat shored up until the great migration of the scotch irish in the first half of the 18th century and these are people want to be on that front tier and they go pretty far out because they want to be left alone. They do not want a lot of interaction. They have had enough of power shaping their lives which is very much their experiences protestant colonists in ireland such as they were. But at this point it is vague grabby and you would not travel to far from nec of power because how do you get goods and how do you eke out a living . Seat of power because how do you get goods and how do you eat out a living . Your talent as a storyteller is incredibly compelling. Thank you. First question, as far as the writing of marquette, are they primarily from the jazz went to relations . They are. I think i know where you are going with this which is that we do not know. It complicates the source material further. Amassed byal was ages when sitting very comfortably back in quebec who was rewriting and tailoring some of what marquette did not give him personally but what came he was him from putting it in a voice that would have made it suitable as a document for good reading. So marquette may have not been a terribly skilled storyteller at in the hands of the jazz went superior at that point, it he is overwriting markets adventure marquettes adventure. It was the last relation to come out. The relation stopped being produced and published in france at this point so this is kind of the endpoint and some people say it does not really belong is one of the jazz went relations, it is what is called in a light document. And allied document. A tremendousally debate around the 1940s between the francesca ends and the jazz whats and there is one franciscan with the wonderful borgia stec. Is he has a b in his bonnet about jacques marquette. He claims it is not marquette who deserved all the credit for the mississippi exploration. It was another one who traveled daily iselle. He was notorious for hating jesuits and light franciscans. Go figure. [indiscernible] he had a nasty temperament based on a misreading of 17thcentury records and what it meant to be what is it called, some sort of phrase that in the modern day means nasty, alias. As bette was described ilious. The 17th century that meant you had kind of a chronic churning in your innards. He used that terminology to say marquette does not deserve this this founding individual. That it belongs to a francesca. And a franciscan it belongs to a franciscan. Primary documents for some of the jazz whats and we know how little or how much it was overwritten. In some of these cases it was not that much. They made it suitable for storytelling but preserve the activity but we know this is all so iarkets perspective save him through the intervention through the virgin mary, she clearly wants me to make the trip but modern people notwithstanding, i mean people have their beliefs then as they have them now, it is really you know that native americans let you live, help to live that you got from one point scrape up thato language, that impulse it wouldve been so natural to marquette to get at the real story and the role voice. Desoto, that was what 15 40s or so . So 130 years earlier. Were 16n the 16 60s 70s there were some pretty ugly incidents. Would marquette have been aware of that . . O what degree laura that is a good question. Whenever we talk about the spanish story of the new world as filtered through other services, the black legend of spanish conquest comes up. In many countries not just protestant because of protestants were kind of the great generators and producers of the information, really had a strong belief that there was something that made the spanish in enoughly barbarous themselves in the new world so that is a great question. To what extent those materials wouldve traveled. Been translated and available for popular consumption, i would say likely. I would have to say likely. To what extent would the french we willing to leave those things . The french, despite those being catholic countries, they have an intrepid relationship with the spirit is from time to time so i mention that wouldve been reflected by whenever the relationship was they had with the spanish. , did theh weapons ]panish have any [indiscernible they are chiefly in the florida area, moving through channels but underscoring the idea of a spanish sphere of influence, marquette and jolliet would have no way of knowing where that was and would not risk it at this point. [indiscernible] jolliet goes over to the other side. I the day of interaction . He offered his services and english were cracked any kind of came back he in enough himself he was a fascinating character and it was from the same time. Yes. Yes . [indiscernible] english wanted them first as allies but later on just one of them gone in is. And obviously, no [laughter] relatively a complex and easy question to answer the same time but attitudes toward native people are going to change in the vault the course of the colonial story in i will start with the spanish, the spanish do have this ion enslavement even though they are given explicit direction by their church and monarch that they are not supposed to do that, that that is not a desired practice, how , etc. Do that but the spanish story becomes complicated through marriage and fromus types of people origins of mixing along the lines and we know the mixing was very robust. That is something you never see in significant numbers from the english, the english really keep to their own polls for. Ntermarriage of the english, and i say the scottish, not the scots, irish. The french have always been benign ofas the most. Olonizers they wanted native americans as allies, respected their culture. That too is an evolutionary process waste on this is in the and a big mississippi for the french is that the topic we keep coming back to common numbers. They know they do not have the ability to really successfully oppress anyone on a massive scale or kick anyone else out on a massive scale but they do have these very skilled Culture Broker practitioners, not only in jesuits but in committed, knowledgeable catholic laymen like jolliet. Certainly not every for chaplin falls into that category but certainly jolliet does and there are other men like jolliet willing to say, look, we are part of this enterprise two and we believe we can create the same blood, a whole category of humanity in the new world that is at once french, catholic, native american, with a robust isntdge of the land and that highly desirable . Some french might say no, it is not, but other frenchmen are going to say, yes. That is a good idea and that separates us from our colonial competition. [indiscernible] is. Think it do if time for one more question . I think we do. About . Products of intermarriage we the storyt seems to coalesce around the 19th century with the development of canada as a sovereign nation and manitoba as a province and a man who was a of proponent of recognition in their place in Canadian Society and he ends up dying as a clinical prisoner because of that. So yes. Part of the story i did not tell was more of that facing east and how native women who marry adopt mandate and then catholicism for whatever reason, because it is appealing to them or because it makes sense giving the worldview, whatever, and up being very much the powerbrokers and native american immunities. Powerbrokers in their the ones who have the , the powerfules fathers, the powerful brothers. They carry the zeal of the convert and have the relationship with the priest when they come along and become factors, permanent factors in the landscape. Theyre also the ones who keep more so in kind of reminds him of the duties, the sacramental duty more than these cradle catholics, if you will, do themselves. In no wilderness as they wouldve called it. [indiscernible] [applause] very much. U announcer sundays at 7 00 p. M. On oral histories, interviews with prominent photojournalist. Conversation with Frank Johnston about his photos and career. When i brought oswald out he was within three feet of me when jack ruby, who leapt out from between behind me and went , weeen bob jackson and me were all thrown to the floor because her must of been 100 police and not basement that sunday morning. Watch the interviews on oral histories sundays at 7 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan3. Live free or die is the motto of New Hampshire. Find out where that phrase came from and take a look at some of the artifacts that tell the history of the state at the New Hampshire historical society. Were at the New Hampshire historical society, the fifth largest historical society. Whoas founded by a woman wanted to preserve New Hampshire history. Core going to look at the exhibit about New Hampshire history which features a number of object considered iconic objects of New Hampshire history. The first item i want to show you is a dugout can