Where i want to start worrying about it. Right now i am trying to find a job that will allow me to manage or go to a different 401 k because i am not at a job that allows me to do that, and whatever i have is from my previous job and dont know much about Wealth Management and am not able to look at each stock and i leave it to the company that is taking care of it. I know that because the market is not as free, i guess, if you want to say that, and i know there is at times manipulation of factors that i would just soon diversify and not rely on my 401 k on being my main source of retirement when that moment comes but gold or silver, whatever the options are, and hopefully investing in local businesses or companies in my area and getting back return as far as retirement goes. Thats the last call from aaron in lake station, indiana on the stock market how it affects your finances and your trust in the finances. Cupping up next, the former Bush Administration here to talk about the role immigration is playing in the 2016 campaign and how it could possibly hurt the gop. He will join us next. And jose luis vilson. Washington journal returns after this. Saturday august 29th marks the 10th anniversary of hurricane katrina, one of the five deadliest storms in u. S. History. Tonight at 8 00, the 2006 tour of new orleans Recovery Efforts and then a house hearing featuring new orleans citizens describing their experiences during and after the storm. They told us they would take us to shelters where we could get help and get the seniors to help, and they loaded us up on these military trucks, then they declared the city of new orleans a war zone and it still didnt sink in that we were the prisoners of war. Cspans 2006 tour of hurricane damage and recovery at st. Bernard parish in louisiana. You cant describe it. Its your whole life gone, completely. You have nothing but cement left and rubble, and not only your house but your whole community, your family and friends and everybody is gone and its a year later and your family and friends you dont see anymore that you used to see. Its a hell of a feeling. You dont forget it, and you will never forget it for the rest of your life. And then a town hall from ray nagin. I am relying on you. I know all of this is state level and federal level and all other areas, and i dont have them, i voted for you to represent me on the local level. I dont know where else to go. I dont know what else to do. Thursday night starting at 8 00 more from the atlantic cough tprupbs in new orleans with femas dean boquat, and in 2009, obamas trip to the region and his remarks ten years after katrina. Thats coverage all this week on cspan. Washington journal continues. Our guest is the Latino Partnership director and he was the office of citizenship from 2003 to 2008. Good morning. Good morning to you and thank you for having me. Over all the message that the gop president ial candidates are delivering on immigration. What is the impact on the Latino Community . Very big, but it varies from candidate to candidate. Obviously donald trump is getting a lot of attention and the mess sing negative and devastating and he would never get the support of latino voters, and his favorable rate with latinos is negative 51. And this is the guy that says mexicans love me. I think some of the other candidates are hurting as well because they aligned themselves with trump or remained silent and those reacting to trump and distancing him forcefully, and bush and rubio are doing well with the latino voters so they will do well in the election if they get the nominee. What about candidates like governor bush or senator rubio, what is the best way forward in light of what is being said about immigration . You have to react to trump. Whether you like it or not, he is number one in the polls, and he is leading, so every time he makes an outrageous statement or says something about immigration, i think its important for them to react to him and to state why he is wrong. I think thats what jeb bush did yesterday by going to the border and explaining that donald trump is not a conservative, that his immigration plan basically makes no sense, and i think its very important to do that. If you do that, latino voters are going to say, they are not like trump. There are others, we have seen governor walker, for example, who has been seen as a top tier candidate aligning himself with trump, saying that, you know, he supports ending birth right citizenship and all of a sudden he is saying, no, i didnt say that, and i am not going to change birth right citizenship as a constitutional right, and i think in terms of walker the damage is done, and i think latinos see him as somebody not favorable on immigration. Trump is an opportunity. Certainly he creates a toxic environment and if it continues it can really affect whoever the republican nominee turns out to be. The only one that for sure could overcome this environment, this toxic environment is governor bush because of the deep connections with latino voters. We got his reaction targeting donald trump and we will air those and let you react. Mr. Trumps plans are not grounded in principle, and we need Border Security to be able to get this back on track. I will not get into the issues of what he said and i said, but the simple fact is his proposal is unrealistic and will cost hundreds of millions and it will create friction with the thirdlargest trading partner which is not necessary, and hes wrong about it. If he wants a comprehensive idea he may want to read my book. I welcome mr. Trump into the tkd debait, and he is a serious candidate, and he needs to be held to account for his views. Specifically he is targeting the plan of donald trump alongside statements from donald trump, and is that a Strong Enough defense . Yes, well governor bush is somebody that clearly knows about immigration and his immigration wars is a great book to understand the complexity of the debate. I exchanged views on the issue, and he certainly knows the issue. Its a responsible, and i think it just shows a lack of seriousness when he says we are going to depart everyone. How does that happen . He doesnt explain. He just makes a statement, everybody has to go. And that is contrary to what the majority of Law Enforcement says you cant round up everybody and send them out. Ironically historically republicans fought for the birth right to insure the citizenship of africanamericans and to establish the principle of citizenship by being born in the United States, and then finally this idea of curtailing Legal Immigration, so trump is not only saying, you know, ilLegal Immigration is bad, he is now siding with somebody like Jeff Sessions who he was with in alabama the other day at a rally and saying that immigration is bad because it suppresses wages. That has never been the republican approach. Ronald reagan believes immigration is a progrowth policy that can expand their Consumer Base and generate more Economic Activity and create more and better paying jobs for American Workers. So really, the plan lacks substance and seriousness and i think governor bush is showing that he understands the issue much better, and in terms of securing the border, he would do a better job of people doing that legally. A line for Illegal Immigrants if you want to give your thoughts on the topic as well. The american principles in action, and what does this group do what it comes to immigration . We are a conservative organization that believes in the three legs that Ronald Reagan talked about, family volumes, and sound policy. A policy that believes in the rule in law and secures the border and at the same time respects and brings people out of the shadows and understands the importance of market based immigration, and we need to create a market base program to facilitate the legal flows of the worker the Foreign Workers our economy needs, and thats basically our view. Some of the other candidates talked about the jobs in america, and especially jobs that might be taken by the americans that would do the work. Is that a realistic view . Is that a reasonable view . Well, its a liberal view. Its not a conservative view. You have Rick Santorum calling for a 25 cut in Legal Immigration, and walker is saying that Legal Immigration suppresses wages and trump now, and they agree with bernie sanders, and he says the same thing which is interesting. It shows they are seeing the economy from a very stratic perspective, which has never been the conservative way. When we analyze the Economic Development we also use the dynamic analysis, and we understand that more people in the economy is not something bad, and it actually generates more Economic Activity and creates more jobs for American Workers because they are taking jobs that americans are not taking for whatever reason and creating goodpaying jobs upstream in the labor market for American Workers and thats the reagan view. Its interesting that people like santorum are sounding like big liberal like bernie sanders. Who knew . What it comes to Border Security what about the idea trump brings out and others have brought out and building a wall along the southern border . Talking about a wall is simplistic. We need strategic fencing, and that works. I dont think governor bush opposed that or any other candidates and you have to explain what does that mean. That means perhaps extendsiing double layer fencing and focusing on where the problem is, and thats on the texas side of the border, and trump doesnt talk about 7 because he is clueless, and he thinks the big wall of trump will resolve everything. There are parts of the border where people are just not entering illegally because theres no traffic or movement. Just to say the big wall, that is for a certain sector of the conservative base, and not the majority but just for a very vocal sector of the conservative base. Lets start with debby on the republican line. Go ahead. Caller my question is why is it that with ilLegal Immigration we also get the criminal element, we get a lot of the criminals coming through, and we cant do anything about them, and they come in and they commit crimes and they go home and come back and they go home and come back, and then they get to the point where they commit murder, and then we decide to take action and the other countries dont want them back, but yet we have to contain them. Why is it that we cannot do something about the criminal element coming through . I live in an area where i have Illegal Immigrants here and a lot of them are wonderful and hardworking people with nice families and they are wonderful people, but the criminal element, i am sick of hearing about they come in the border and nobody stops them and nothing detains them and they cant be sent back home because they come across again because their own country doesnt want them and wont contain them . I agree with you. I think the Obama Administration has not done anything about the border and that opens the door for criminal elements and people that may have terrorists intentions, and doesnt mean it has happened but it could happen and we need to take Border Security seriously, and enforcing domestic endorsement, finance, creating biometric exit and entry, they over stay their visa and we want to make sure those that over stay their visa, we know who they are and we are able to insure that they return to their home country. Having said that, what we cannot say, like mr. Trump is saying, is the majority of immigrants are rainists euis euis euist criminals. Thats not true. Its shown study after shud shud yo, immigration lowers the crime rates, and so just to judge an entire community because something terrible like what happened in San Francisco took place, and its very unfair. We wouldnt generalize about the entire american citizenry because a few citizens commit crimes. I think immigration is good for the country. You are right, we have to enforce the law, but we cant just see this from a very limited perspective of just Border Security, we also need a Guest Worker Program and have a wall on the border but if we dont have a pay for them to do work legally that americans dont want, the market will still have the demand for the workers and they are going to come in illegally, and thats why we need a Guest Worker Program and thats something that governor bush supports and rand paul bush and apparently not donald trump. Tucson, arizona. Caller how are you, sir . Fine. Caller i am from the left wing of the Democratic Party, and what you said is crap. This hb1b visa problem in the issue right here, we do not need guest workers. We need to give jobs back to american citizens who are born and raised and live here. This theory that they come here because they need to find a better way for their family, no, what they need to do is stand up in the nations they come from. This is not concerning mexico but every other country where these individuals come if. I dont care how good they are or how well their families are or in need of work, they need to vote in their countries and get politicians up off their behinds and create jobs where they are from and they can make a better life for themselves where they are living at, and this excuse because we need Migrant Workers because they do jobs americans wont do, and thats a fabricated lie. If you didnt have a education, at least you were trained to do the job available there for you. What we have done now is gone through with a theory we need this worker from this place, and we dont need a babysitter from germany and we have americans that will baby sit american children, and we dont need somebody to show us how to build a that road, because we have americans. Quit trying to sell the fantasy that we need them to come and work. Michael. Thank you for the call, and we will let our guest respond. Thank you for the question. I appreciate your passion and i appreciate that you say that you come from the left, because thats a view of the left of restricting immigration, Legal Immigration. And i think you are being honest about it whether president obama and Hillary Clinton are not open and exspousing that view that they want less Legal Immigration. President obama has always been against a Guest Worker Program, and thats dealing with the symptom and not the problem that we need more Foreign Workers. So i wish that president obama and Hillary Clinton would be very open and say, like you, that they oppose Legal Immigration and then latino voters would understand where they stand. Let me tell you something, i disagree with your perception and i travelled all over the country and meeting with immigrant communities and businesses and frankly, i just dont see a lot of americans lining up to do tough agriculture work, to do certain type of jobs in the Hospitality Industry and Restaurant Industry, and when it comes to lowincome or what they call lowskill workers, i think that we should have a labor certification process and if companies cannot find American Workers they should bring Foreign Workers, but, yes, they should try to hire American Workers but for those tough jobs at the low end, americans are not lining up, and at the higher level, those with advanced degrees, the reality is and most, you know, College President s can tell you were not having enough americans with advanced degrees so in the meantime we need to bring those people with advanced degrees from china and india, and you know, its important because they create jobs for americans. If we dont bring them in, our middle class is going to hurt so immigration is good for the middle class and for those that want to build fortress america, thats going to kill our middle class. Reporter i am so tired of hearing donald trump talk about immigrants. They were good enough to build his golf course and his what do you call it, casinos, but now he comes out with this language and talk against them and americans will not do the job, they want 15 to say do you want that meal super sized . I know of a lot of immigrants here that are doing jobs that americans wont do because they want everything for nothing. The more they get the more they want, and its outlandish. Same on the public for letting trump for getting away with his outlandish talk and rhetoric, and this is the man that talks about filing chapter 11, and his clothing line is made in china and the rest of it is made in mexico, and if he would win the white house, would he want to live there . He is used to living there in his big goldlined place. He would be taking a step down if he moved into the white house. Its time for people to say stand up and just quit showing him. He is ridiculous. He reminds me of a hot air balloon. Bonnie, we will let our guest respond. I think she makes good points. I try to figure out donald trump. Enter taeupbg but not necessarily the greatest leaders. Look, i agree that theres an element here of self illusion. We are frustrated with washington so all of a sudden we think donald trump is the authentic person that is going to solve all of our problems. Even immigration, my friends from the conservative base, three years ago, only three years ago, donald trump blasted mitt romney over immigration saying he was not welcoming of immigrants and calling self deportation maniacal and saying that he was for comprehensive reform, and this is donald trump. Are you being true to yourself when you are supporting somebody that said those things only three years ago . He was for partial birth abortion and for a Single Payer Health care system and socialized medicine and advocating for an increase in income taxes and advocated for limiting the second amendment. Can we truly think this person is authentic . Look, i believe that he is the ultimate politician, and i think he is following his book, who he thinks is the best book ever written, and he wants to swindle the American Public and reach the white house. Here is weighed from the independent line. Caller i have been calling in to cspan since 08 about the immigration. I am into construction and prior to 08 we were staying pretty busy and had ten or 11 people working on a regular bases and now we cant buy a job out here, and we live around georgia, and construction took over by immigrants. I know Everybody Needs a job in the world and not just in the country, but it has gotten to a point in america where americans cant get the job any more. I dont know what its going to come to. I dont know if its trump or whatever, but we have to have relief in the country so we can go back to work. Thank you for taking my call. Right, again, going back to my earlier point, trump has flipflopped so many times depending on what is politically expedient, you dont know if he is going to followthrough with the ideas he is articulating today, but in terms of not finding jobs in the construct sh industry, thats why you need immigration reform, there are employers hiring immigrants because they can pay them less than minimum wage, and they are undocumented immigrants and they are not going to complain. If they are legalized they have to compete with you and other americans fairly because they will be legal and would have to be paid the prevailing wage. Thats what we want to bring in out of the shadows. And in the construction jobs, theres a process where you have to insure that those that you hire are American Workers and if not you can hire Foreign Workers, but having said that a company that cannot find American Workers should not be told by Big Government that they cannot bring the Foreign Workers that they need, and is that a very Big Government democratic idea, and do conservatives believe in highly regulating the labor market . When was that the conservative idea . Santorum is certainly lining up with trump and bernie sanders, and i dont know if thats the conservative way. Our guest, Alfonso Aguilar, he was the former chief of the u. S. Office of citizenship in 2003 to 2008, and joining us now to talk about immigration and specifically campaign 2006. Talk about the process of is it too complicated, particularly for those here in the United States that want to become citizens . I must say that citizenship is something we do well in this country and other countries in the west, canada, the uk, they are actually following our model. Its a great system. U. S. Citizenship and Immigration Services are responsible for the naturalization process and they have done great work in the past years to extreme line the process. And some cities, you can become a citizen in three months. You have to wait three to five years as a resident to apply for the citizenship. You have to take a naturalization exam, which includes an english exam, and i led the effort for the new tests that they take, and its a good test, it follows a basic u. S. And civics curriculum, and its focused on learning principles like rule of law and freedom of relegend and freedom of rights, and we hope they will develop a loyalty to america. We are naturalizing around half a million or more permanent residents a year, and i think its true what Ronald Reagan said, can you come from any corner of the world to america and by take the oath of allegiance become a full america. It takes a lot of people many years, but, you know, it does say a lot about our country that we are still taking people and making them full citizens as american as our forefathers. Its a process that costs about 685 approximately, and but, again, its a simple process and Immigration Services is doing a great job in managing it. Sandra in alabama, democrats line. Hi. Reporter from what i take you act as anybody against ilLegal Immigration is against hispanics. We have one in our family and love her to pieces and she is my sisterinlaw and she will be the first one to tell you that its the illegal part you cant seem to understand, and its not just hispanics coming across the bord border. In new jersey, they are letting people get their drivers license with burkas on and you cant see them face and thats asking for somebody to come in and blow up the country, and it goes with the border and then come into countries legally, and jobs, there is americans who will do jobs if this get the chance to do it and it burns us up to hear yall go on and on that no american will duty jobs, and theres plenty of us out here. I have a sister that cleans houses when she can get a job. I am telling you, there are americans who will work at picking fields, at cleaning houses, and you name it, they will do it, just give them the chance. Peoples already took the jobs is what yall dont seem to understand. I am sorry if i got upset but i want you to know how we feel. Thank you very much. Theres a population factor that you have to understand. The average age of a white angloamerican is 41, and you need healthy population grow for our economy to grow, and our population is growing because of immigration. Without immigrants you cant grow economically and create jobs. If we stop Legal Immigration, like some are proposing and follow the model of declining populations of europe, and we will be in the same situation they are, stagnant growth and countries in recessionairy processes. I dont think thats something that america wants. The average age of a hispanic is 27. We need young people. And that helps to keep programs like Social Security solvent, so its not that our country is over populated, we actually i would argue that we need more immigration. Now, i understand that the economy is in terrible shape, that jobs, the jobs are being created are not goodpaying jobs, but dont blame the immigrants for that. Theres a reality out there, and if an american wants to get an agriculture job, he or she can, but i will tell you, i have been in arizona, and i have been in california, and they are not lining up. And its not that there are no americans of working age to do those very tough jobs. And employers have a responsibility to hire them over a Foreign Worker if they line up, but they are just not lining up. So i think that we have to understand that, and again, immigrations, they are not taking jobs away from americans or suppressing wages. They help create jobs for americans. And this is very important. If you are in a restaurant, for example, and you dont have people working in the kitchens, bussing tables, you wont be able to create the waiter jobs for college students, the management jobs for americans, or other or keep other Small Businesses related to the Restaurant Industry growing and expanded industries owned by americans. I understand the pain of a lot of people who are not getting goodpaying fulltime jobs, but i think its easy to blame immigrants when they are not responsible, and what is responsible is the bad policies of this administration that led to Economic Growth that is not robust enough and job creation that jobs being created that are not good paying full time jobs. What that is the best way to deal with the 11 million or so Illegal Immigrants here in the United States . Theres no easy answer. By the way, theres no magic formula to fix our problem. Theres no way we can remove them, and as governor bush has said, lets give them a path to citizenship. After they pay a fine, back taxes, then allow them to remain here with legal status. And once we fix our problems, then we can start really enforcing the law so people who arrive now illegally can be removed right away, but to say that all of a sudden, you know, lets just secure the border without thinking about the 11 million or saying like trump is saying that we can actually remove them and lately he has been saying that we would actually go to their houses and remove them forcefully, and i think thats unamerican, and it may violate Civil Liberties of some because the children of some undocumented or many undocumented immigrants are u. S. Citizens. I think that is not the right way to proceed. I dont think it can be done anyway. We dont have the resources to remo r remove the 11 million. Lets insure that it doesnt happen again, and we insure it doesnt happen again by having a comprehensive Border Security plan and enforcing domestic law and insuring that employers dont hire undocumented immigrants by having form of biometric cause for American Workers where they cant take a job if they dont have the card. Here is another caller. Go ahead. Caller good morning. I think people are very excited about donald trump because he has an understanding of the frustration of the average american like no other politician. The latinization of america is not acceptable without our consent. We are a country of immigrants yet in 2008 and 2012 we heard, oh, the latin vote, they are becoming king makers. My feeling about this, its all about power. We cant have open borders and a welfare state. We are doing very poorly. We are going to wind up like greece. We are headed down the road to misery and poverty in this country because our politicians are interested only in power and the Democratic Party wants the hispanic vote. President eisenhower, many, many years ago, deported 1 million hispanic immigrants, illegals. It can be done, but we dont have to do that. We just have to stop welfare and stop the hiring and give america back to americans who are not doing that well in my own family. Caller, thanks. I agree we have to reform the welfare state, by all means. A majority of the immigrants dont have access. Thats a fallacy. Green card holders have to be in the country five years until they have access to the federal benefits, and undocumented workers dont have access to federal benefits. I agree we have to reform the welfare state. But where i disagree, and i think we have to be fair is this whole idea of the latinization of america. Our identity is not based on blood or religion, its based on ideals, on democratic principles, on a shared sense of history, and yes, a common language because we need english to communicate to deliberate our problems, but we shouldnt see, you know, how many hispanics are already citizens . Are we going to question how american they are . This is going down a slippery road when we start saying these people are not american or this is not american. Were all american, and im talking about the naturalization process, and as soon as you take that oath, you become as american as our forefathers. Even from the beginning, the founding of the country, our country at that time, yes, the majority were white, anglo protestant, and different denominatio denominations, and at that time that was a great recognition of great diversity. Thats how our country started. To start seeing latinos as some other group or a group with an agenda, the Latino Community, you have people with different views and Different Countries of origin and different social back grounds, and a majority of them believe in life and traditional marriage, and if conservetives were smart they would be constructive on immigration so to overcome the issue, and then becoming very competitive with latinos and latinos would be supportive of conservative causes. You mentioned donald trump as being the person that understands how people are hurting, and do you know that donald trump was for comprehensive immigration three years ago, and he blasted romney for being self deportation. Do you really trust him . Dont you think that a year from now he may Say Something completely different from what he is saying now . There are others that are believe in just focusing on Border Security and are on Legal Immigration, but they are moronest and coherent than donald trump. Why are you putting your trust in somebody that has flipflopped so many times . And theres the celebrity factor. People get tired of shows and at some point they will get tired of donald trump. And we have our guest, Alfonso Aguilar joining us to talk about campaign 2016. Thank you for your time. Thank you for having me. We will hear from joe saeu luis vilon has washington journal continues after this. This sunday night on q a, brookings institutions senior fellow brown talks about the u. S. Counter insurgency in state building efforts in afghanistan. Improved security but nonetheless, it depends on how it ends. Increasinglyt question myself. We do not know how it will end. It is also possible that five isis hasn the road, now slowly emerged in the country. Much worse than the taliban. The taliban is deeply entrenched. If we end up five years down the road in new civil war in and a new safe haven for the taliban and isis, i would say was not worth the price. Sunday night at 8 00 is done and pacific on cspans q a. Washington journal continues. Host j washington journal continues. Joining us from new york is jose luis vilson. Thank you for joining us on cspan. Thank you for having me. Could you give the viewers a sense of your story, not only as a teacher but how you came to be an activist when it comes to issues on education . I grew up on the Lower East Side of new york city in manhattan, and growing up in the hood i found myself in the throws of a lot of the drug warfare and a lot of the Police Activity that was going on, and in the midst of that i was growing from, i guess a young and naive black latino male to this education activist and all throughout that, i went through Public Schools and private schools and went to Syracuse University and got a degree in computer science, and i thought i could inspire other students to become better than what everybody perceived them to be and i thought that we could have more teachers of color, specifically of colors and white teachers to become more culturally competent in the way they did things, and it was not just about the academics, which i am a big fan of, but i think we need to work on the social components and to make sure that all children can learn. Being a Public Education teacher and us being here in washington, what do you think about the way washington does Public Education . What are your concerns about it if you have any . Generally my concerns, when it comes to politics, especially at the federal level, theres not enough about what happens with education and how a teacher works with their students, so its a lot of politicking, and its washington and i get it, but at the same time, it seems like petigochi doesnt reach here. I feel the relationship between students and teachers push students to be better than what they are, and a lot of times its about benchmarks and how we can get kids college and career ready but we never discussed about having better human beings coming out of the School System. When it comes to education, we hear about the idea of a standardized test of showing achievement and how it affects a school if a number of students dont hit that mark. Talk to that, and talk to that issue especially from your perspective . When it comes to standardized testing i do realize that there has to be a sense of accountability. I think most teachers would say they want to be held accountable, but at the federal and state level, you know who i am working with in terms of my governors and former mayor, and generally every politician these days talks about testing, testing, testing and it has gotten so absorbant that we fail to recognize that test something not going to solve our problems, and if anything, the best way to measure our students is through teachers making tests, teachers creating these testses and getting a sense of how they are doing right at the spot. Its not about a Major Corporation coming in and trying to tell teachers what they need to be doing and how they need to be moving their students and then only finding out results five to six months later, and it needs to be more immediate and more responsive to the students that are in front of us, and often times a lot of the discussion around testing is, we need to just test more and make better tests and i would argue that we need to have fewer tests and have just one that doesnt assure that the kids who are performing the lowest have their schools shut down from under them. Our guests wrote the book this is not a test. He is joining us to talk about issues with education. If you want to call and ask him questions, things he talked about or at least perspectives you have seen when it comes for u. S. Education, and parents and teachers and for administrator f. You want to give your perspective. Joining us from new york, mr. Vilson, tack about what it is like being a Public Schoolteacher as far as your day is concerned. How much of your day is spent in education, and what is the issues you face as a teacher . Generally, i pretty much live and breathe the stuff. A lot of people talk about how much they get holidays and summers off and all the other things that are inconsequential. I wake up at about 5 30 in the morning, and my kids start at 8 00 and i know i have to deal with, say, 30, 60, 90 students a day, and i am not just dealing with their academic proficiency, and i am dealing with are they learning about living relationships and are they competent in getting the values manipulated, and i am thinking about what their home like is like and it comes into the classroom when they are not always ready, so often times my response has to be, it has to come from a place of love and it has to come from a place of learning, so the things i am dealing with, i would say about 40 of what i deal with on a daily bases is academic, and the other 60 has to do with social and Emotional Wellbeing and often times that is the struggle that doesnt come into discussions when we have teacher and education debates or any of that stuff. I am working on grading papers after 3 00, and lesson planning throughout the weekend and thinking about how i am going to work with my students very early in the morning, and as soon as i wake up, as i am brushing my teeth i think about how i will work with my kids that need more help and i am thinking about how i can help my students become better at what they do. The social and emotional aspects you gave, give an example . For example, i had students who have come in super hungry and they came in without eating breakfast or i have kids who have had their parents work until midnight, and some of my kids have parents that work not just like the 9 00 to 5 00, but they work from 3 00 p. M. To midnight and they have to wait for the parents to come in before they get sleep and that affects their lively hoods, and when they wake up, they are tired and restless and often times they come in with the very issues, and the adolescent phase, and i am Teaching Middle School and thats a whole other level. You know about seventh and eighth grade, its a little messy. When you work with students whose lives are changing and around them they dont have a set foundation for how they are going to live their lives, and what the teacher has to do is often try to refrain a lot of frustrations and anger and try to find out what is going on with them as soon as we talk about the objective or the things we need to do for the day. The thing that i do in my classroom is i try to make sure that i know where the students are coming from and im always like this is where we need to get to. We need to get to a really High Standard. I understand that you have these issues and im going to work with you until we get to the point where i think youre really ready to move on to the next level. First call for you is from oscar in virginia. Go on with our guest. Caller hi. Good morning. Im so happy that you just commented on what i was just going to say. I can remember when i was a kid im a Harvard University graduate. I grew up in d. C. I grew up in washington, d. C. I am hispanic. I can tell you that i was almost put back when i was a kid because of my language. They were testing kids way before this was in the 70s. I left grade school in 73 in the eighth grade. I remember in the second grade the principal had a talk with my mom. My mom had to go to the Principals Office and this was a private school. She said i dont. Well, this is a perfect example of the disconnect with the Education System. They speak kids because they cant speak the language differently and treat them as if there is ignorance level. Theres no such thing. These kids go home and dont have the parent to help them with the homework. My mom had two jobs. I didnt see her come home because i was already asleep. She would come home at midnightism this is a perfect example where most kids coming from two job each parent has two jobs working day and night. One goes to the restaurant and the other goes to clean house and comes home and goes back to clean offices. God help you if you are a single parent. There is a disconnect. Im so happy you verbalized it clearly. I can only imagine what would happen to kids today because in some schools there is a disconnect. Some teachers dont have the time. Oscar, thank you for your comment. Lets let our guest respond. Thats a good connection. Lets talk about the policy. When you have a student and a lot from the Dominican Republic and elsalvador and i am dominican. The policies we have regarding testing are also way off. So when you have a student who just came in and doesnt speak much english at all if at all, maybe they get some english from pop culture, it takes a good three to four years for students to fully acclimate into a language. We give them about a year and a day before they have to take an actual english exam standardized. That doesnt make much sense. In new york state we give an english test and english language test. We are giving one that is for the general masses and then specific english test that test modalities of speaking, reading and writing. If we have a test that does this why do we double it up with a regular english exam. If they can speak one, cant they speak the other . I dont get what that is about. I find some policies dont really mesh with what is happening with our actual students. Often times we need to learn how to step back a little bit from the testing and think about what our students experiences are. Nick from california. Good morning. Caller good morning. Glad to get through to you. There is a lot i would like to say. Please dont cut me off in five seconds. I think schools kindergarten through third grade should concentrate on the basics, reading, writing, math, spelling, arithmetic. They need to learn to use their brain, not go to all of this electronic gadget junk, how to push a button for this and push a button for that. They need to learn to use their brain and they also need to go back to teach kids how to write. They cant do cursive and they are very sloppy on even printing. They need to go back to basics. And then gradually get into the electronic gadgets stuff that everybody must have. A thats basically it. Let the kids learn to use what they are learning in class or outside of class a little bit to get to know what its for. Why are they learning this stuff . Let them use it outside of class. And for testing, yes, teachers should give them a little bit to see how they are doing, simple tests. And then increase the test as the year goes on so that they really learn what you are teaching them. Well let our guest respond. Go ahead. There is a couple of things there. I do believe that our students all need an equitable form of education. I think that is going to have to come from a sort of standard that is really set high. I think that is what a lot of the promise is with common standards. A lot of people talk about we need to have higher standards. I can somewhat agree with that in the sense of we need to have students who are ready to go into any sort of profession and not just be able to read a vcr manual but need to learn how to do these things. When you dont have a connection between the standards and what the practitioner, the teachers who are in the classroom talking about what it means to have students who are ready to go. Then we can have a real conversation because the practitioners need to be at the table. If we dont have practitioners at the stable we dont have a real conversation. There is a discussion about digital arts, if you will, for lack of a better term for right now and this idea that we are going to lose something if we dont teach kids the basics. I think to that end we have to find a way to deal with the current reality which is that students can go over pretty much anything. How do you trust the things in front of you if you dont know what to trust or if you dont have censors that will help you out. So teachers in a way have to find a way to think deeper and teach kids how to think deeper. A lot of what we have is about teaching kids how to filter out the information that is in front of them and working with the information thats there in order to make a viable argument and be able to create a better sense of what is going on around them. Here is stan, a parent. Good morning. Caller good morning. First thanks for having me. I have a question relating to k12 education academic standards relating to Higher Education and expectations of students going into college. And the question i have is i worked in the Public School system and my experience going into college is that we didnt have the preparation for what you had going in. When looking at education reform why is it not looked at from the perspective of a college if the child wants to major in engineering, assuming the child knows calculus one why wouldnt i think thats a great question because i went through that struggle when i thought about the way that i was brought up in terms of the math pedagogy that i needed to learn i found there was a disconnect between my senior year of high school. I went to a real good high school. When i went into the first year of college i was stunned. I said i dont know as much as i think i do. What i found myself doing was i found myself working with other people who did know. I think often times we miss out on not the individual knowledge but how do we teach students and just generally how we teach them to think deeper about the material in front of them . Do we teach them in a way that allows them to think deeper . I think calculus doesnt allow for students to just think about things in terms of memorization. You have to think deeper about the math. I wonder if the way we prepare students from k12 is where everything is direct or do we have a nice mix of direct and implicit instruction where students can learn to decompose some of the things in front of them and work with the ideas a lot more clearly and so thats where we need to go. You are going to get material memmuerized but some material you will not be able to memorize because you have to be able to solve problems that we may or may not have answers to. A teacher from sterling, virginia is next. Corey, good morning. Caller good morning. How are yall doing . In regards [ inaudible ] i teach in the eastern part of Loudoun County where about 50 of our students are of latino dissent and we have a lot of students. We dont have a lot of resources to reach our students. Our western county has little to no ell students and therefore our county doesnt give a lot of support. A lot of it is left up to teach rbz. Last year we were having students and didnt have the support. They cut our program. It was up to us so we banded together and we started supply and support for these students. I think teachers get a bad rap by saying we are not there. The truth of the matter is we are there and we care more about the students than people think. And then on the other hand we have the wealthier people in the county that like to tell us how to do our jobs. I have a masters degree and i work very hard and am working towards my specialist degree. I have had parents tell me i wish i had your job that did nothing all day. I do believe teachers are there and are there to work on behalf of the students even if we are not given the resources which happens more often than you think. Talk a little about about the testing experience. What does the states requirements force you to do as far as training . What kind of standardized test is the state requiring students to take and how do you prepare for that . You there . I think he is gone. You can pick up with his comments. When it comes to resources we have a disparity between our poorest districts and richest districts. We have so much gerrymandering and red lining that we often times forget there is a systemic situation where we dont have equity in all of our schools. And so what we need to do as far as equity is when we have students who have less we need to give them more. When we have students with more we need to give them just enough to make it. Often times equity is very much like we are just going to give enough and title 1 seems to be doing a good job of that. Is it enough . I dont believe so. We need to do a much better job of funding for all students so we have better preparation for all kids. To your point around testing and this is something that also is kind of wild, in new york state we have testing literally from march perhaps all the way through june. Specifically for eighth grade we have tests almost every week. We have more than one test a week. It can become a little daunting when you have to try to teach at the same time as standardized tests at the same time. The procedures dont allow us to really get into students and talk to them and have a better sense of how they are doing academically. This is dallas, texas. Liz is up next. Caller im coming from the perspective of a student. When i was growing up they only taught us what was on the standardized test. It wasnt their fault. They were pretty much forced to. I didnt know what it was like to learn until i got to college. My interest wasnt sparked until i got to college and took philosophy and psychology. Coming from that point of view i really agree with your thoughts on socioeconomic status but i also think you should add sexism. The subtlies of sexism are subtle but have a huge impact. You should have everybody involved be aware of those so that we can try to prevent a continuation of the prejudice that goes on in this country. And i think your comments about whether what you were teaching is too direct, i think it is too direct. When i was learning math i didnt understand math was logic until my sophomore year of college just because they were teaching what was on the test. I ran into the same problem with the gre. They were testing for logic. How does that make sense . At the end of the day what is important is that we spark interest and prove that learning is fun and joyful by teaching them what is interesting. And through that will have a chance to learn for themselves. I didnt study to ace the test. I aced the test because i loved to study. I think that is basically the point that i want to make. I love when students talk. I find that students often have the key to what education reform ought to look at. This idea that we need to look at students not just from racial lens but gender lens and other lenses that are developing. Our lgbt students we need to be more responsive to them and their needs. We need to make sure that expectations for all students are raised. We cant have students that are in one school and are all of color or all girls and we decide we are not going to teach them a High Standard of math or science, but we need to find a way to do it, that just only makes it interesting but connects it to the things they are about to do or may be interested in the future. We develop a sense or tool kit by which they can progress in the future. I think that is a lot of what she is talking about there. I definitely appreciate your comments regarding pedagogy. It has to be a healthy mix of reconstruction and i guess implicit instruction where students are learning on their own and Getting Solutions on their own. Joining us, author of the book this is not a test. He has a website where you can find writings including opeds. One that you have taking a look at Public Education. You have a line that goes like this saying i see Public Education as an entity that was only built for a small set of people to get in and our country resisted adjustment at almost every turn. Can you expand on that . Generally when you look at some of the federal interventions and you literally have to have like a National Guard come in and always say we need to do this better. So when there was a mandate to desegregate our schools people resisted by opting out their students and pushing them into private schools. When you had a closing of an achievement gap in the late 70s to early 80s between students of color and white students when the achievement gap started getting smaller and smaller people resisted by cutting social services from under. I think thats where the federal government does have a role. We do have to ensure that all students and all of our schools have equity. Unfortunately, Public Schools generally i think that goes for a lot of schools, dont have the proper mechanisms by which to address equity because they werent meant to be equitable. I think a lot of times we look at Public Schools as an entity that ensures equity. If that is the case why are all of our schools so disparate in terms of achievement . I dont think it has to do with race, sex or other stuff. I think it has to do with funding and the way we approach schooling. We have one set of kids who learned how to read a vcr manual and another learn and debate. We need to push our country to reform in a way that our Public Schools are the foundation by which our country is able to obtain full citizenship meaning every student is learning how to read, write and do math and explore this world and take advantage of the benefits that our country has to offer. If we cant have that in an equitable sense and cant have all students be able to attain that sort of citizenship then we dont have equity. Mr. Vilson how does new york handle topic of School Choice moving to better education district to improve them and where do you stand personally on the topic . Personally i believe that the way that new york is handling it is fairly awful. What i mean by that is there was a point where new york was perhaps one of the more progressive states in terms of funding schools. And we have regressed so far from that point that we had i think we are now one of the most segregated states in the entire nation. New york, a quote unquote blue state is struggling with trying to get students of color and white students to sit together at the same school. A lot of that has to do with policies that come right from our governor who seems to be hand in hand with some of the hedgefund managers and billionaires that have taken over a lot of the discussion around education reform in new york. So we have our charter schools. We have the secret charter schools. We have our more Public Schools, as well. We have our private schools. We have all of the School Choice but a lot of it is a false choice. When you have a school that is brightly colored with brand new paint and funded by wine and cheese and caviar and then another school that still has deprd decreped toilets and desks from 50 years ago. Of course our parents choose the school that looks brand new painted. The topic of money is not sustainable. It doesnt really work in terms of creating a democracy. I think philanthropists, those who seek to have a favor for a favor dont want to fund schools equitybly. They want to have a situation where you have one school that they may or may not fund at the same level at the same time all the time. Public schools have to be funded in a certain way and that is why i think Public Schools have to be i guess that censor for equity. With all the School Choice that is going on and a lot of it is false choice, then you keep having segregation and inequity in terms of funding and disproportionate achievement gaps. Often times that is what people fail to see when they talk about choice. It is a false choice. Paul is next. Its very nice speaking to you. Its a pleasure to have a program like cspan. My question is when my children went to school before testing i felt there was collaboration between principal and the teachers and the focus was the children. Now i find that its more of an adversary role which is detrimental. When will people finally ever realize that no matter what teachers do for eight hours in a classroom if its not supported in a home environment or us creating a civic center in our schools to help these children after school, that we are not going to be able to raise the children up . We will not take them away from their parents but we have to do something as a society to make sure they have the same opportunities when they go home at night as every other child does. Thank you very much and i appreciate your opinion. Thats an amazing comment. Thank you for that. I would say number one that i think there are still spaces where the principal and the teachers do collaborate a lot, but that has to do with a mentality of collaboration versus competitiveness. What no child left behind and race to the top and a lot of federal policies along with the state policies that have come out of no child left behind, race to the top era came from the idea of we need to make sure that people are always competing with each other. Teachers against teachers, students against students, school against school. A lot of us are serving the same kids. If you have a democracy, a real democracy meaning every teacher is serving every student and every principal is serving every teacher. The way we have to look at the collaboration between principals and teachers is such that the principal is a Master Teacher and every administrator who comes up after the principal is also a teacher of teachers. So we are really all a lot of teachers trying to serve our students. If we are in the service of our students we always have that mentality. If we are always fighting against each other then we are not teaching each other. That is what we are missing out in the federal and state policy. Lets hear from darryl in georgia. You are on with our guest. Caller how are you doing . Im good. Caller i was just listening to these comments and stuff i just have three points i would like to make if you allow me time to make it. I remember when my daughter was in school. Parents have to realize they have to get involved also. They cant just make their kids go sit in the school house and and the parents sit at home and raise [ inaudible ] when my daughter got in trouble at the schoolhouse i went to that school [ inaudible ] if the parents get involved [ inaudible ] im down here in south georgia. I think that the government should have government agents check all these schools to see what the teachers are doing. Im not saying you are a bad teacher because i respect you and the job you are doing. You went to school and you deserve that. Some teachers dont take the time. I know three young men last year [ inaudible ] went up to the 12th grade and allowed them to sit in that classroom and they said you cant take the math test. I will wait to take your answer. You have a very blessed day. I think there are a couple of things with that. As a teacher my responsibility is to build a relationship with the students in front of me. Of course, one of the biggest ways is by calling every parent very early on. There is always miscommunication but i try to have a Good Relationship with the parents as well as the students. Generally, im working with students. Im working with the things i can control. Secondly, there is this idea that we can work with bad teachers, if you will, whatever that means by just inspecting. Thats fine but then we also have to have a clear criteria for what makes a good teacher, what makes a competent teacher. You can have a teacher, for example, who gets very good grades with their students but some of their students may not feel as competent in their class for whatever reason sore dont have a Good Relationship with the teacher. There is a plethora of things that could happen. There are mechanisms by which we can do this sort of research. The third thing is we dont take Education Research all that seriously. If this country did then we would have a much larger reformation for what education ought to be. One more call. Ed is from jackson, tennessee. Our line for parents. Caller i just want to know if you are aware of american journal of Public Education study that shows kids social competence was key to success. This was in usa today. It showed youngsters with social competence and social skills are more likely than other kids to graduate high school, hold a degree and everything and even trumped a better predictor than race, sex or family income. It showed that here is the last little bit. Preschoolers were healthier and wealthier by age 32 even after researchers considered factors such as iq and social class. I want to bring up competition. Finland always outdoes other schools. They dont use the word competition. All teachers have a masters degree. The schools not doing as good the schools that are doing good will send teachers in to help schools that are socalled not doing good. Amazing. Thank you. I want to talk a little bit about finland. What people talk about is the idea of extended time and giving more time for teachers to work with students as if that will fix the achievement gap. What i often think is instead we need to work on how to use time more effectively. One of my main points is that i notice that the american School System has teachers in front of students for about 1,300 hours which doesnt sound like a lot except when you look at the average of industrialized nations only spends on average about 600 to 700 hours in front of students. Even finland. Everybody loves to talk about finland, the other f word in education. When you look at finland in terms of hours they spend teacher in front of students i believe it is around 700. So the other time that is being spent isnt on just hanging out. Most of it is about planning. Things that teachers and students dont get to see, planning and grading papers and calling parents and assuring that all students are working dilige diligently, these things dont just happen in the classroom, they happen when the lights are off when the teacher is off the stage. Before we let you go, we will talk with viewers about movement going on of parents keeping students home during standardized tests, opting out, if you will. There is a story in new york state 20 what do you think of the movement and do you support it and what do you think overall about the idea of standardized tests. I am in full support of the opt out movement. Iate am in support of any mechanism by which we can push back against the overtesting of our students. At the same time we have to recognize that this 20 comes from people who already have the agency by which to resist. I often find that people especially people of color who are in Public Schools dont often feel like they have the mechanism by which to resist the absurd amounts of testing. They say teachers should just prepare students to get tested. I often find that when you have that much testing you dont really get a lot of feedback back as far as teachers are concerned. If anything you stress out students more so by giving them so many tests. If we are going to opt out our students fine. We need to make sure that we have equitable systems. I keep pushing the equity button because it is great you are doing it because your particular student shouldnt have to feel the burden of the overtesting. At the same time there are all of these folks who are being overtested but dont have the schools well funded in an equitable situation. The teachers arent always responsive to the things going on. I think we need to align this idea of opting out and pushing back against what we consider the current status quo which is our education reform and really understand that we need to move in a direction of making sure that all students and all teachers and all parents have the equity and the voice in our policy to push back against the overtesting of our students. Our guest has been an education activist and author of this is not a test. Thank you for joining us on cspan. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you. You heard our last guest talk about standardized tests and those opting out of it. If you are an educator or parent or anyone else who has a thought on standardized tests overall we want to get your thoughts on it and what you think about standardized tests. For educators 2027488000. For parents 2027488001 and for all others 2027488002. Your view of standardized tests. Call now and we will take those calls in just a moment as washington journal continues after this. Saturday, august 20 night, marks the 10th anniversary of hurricane august 29, marks 10th anniversary of hurricane katrina. Beginning tonight at 8 00 p. M. , coverage of what is happened e and and get the seniors to help. They loaded us on these military trucks. Then they declared the city of new orleans, Orleans Parish and Jefferson Parish a war zone. It still didnt sink in that we were the prisoners of war. On wednesday night cspans tour of hurricane damage and recovery at st. Bernard parish in louisiana. Thats your whole life gone completely. You have nothing but cement left and rubble. Not only your house but your whole community, your friends, your family, everybody is gone. Now it is going to be a year later and still your family and friends you dont see anymore that you used to see. Hell of a feeling. You dont forget it. Youll never forget it the rest of your life. Followed at 9 00 with the 2005 town hall meeting in new orleans moderated by thenmayor ray nagen. Im relying on you. I know all this is state level, federal level and all other levels. I dont have them. I voted for you to represent me on the local level. I dont know where else to go. I dont know what else to do. Thursday night starting at 8 00 more from the conference in new orleans. And at 9 00 we will show you president obamas trip to the region as well as remarks on the recovery effort. Hurricane katrina anniversary coverage all this week on cspan. Washington journal continues. Host washington journal continues. Your view of standardized tests for educators 2027488000. For parents 2027488001 and all others 2027488002. A goal that looks at questions of education. They asked participants to give thoughts on standardized tests specifically the use of standardized tests to measure effectiveness in schools. 14 of those respondents said it was very important. 43 of those said it was somewhat important. As far as not important at all 28 and not at all important 13 weighing in their thoughts. You may fall in that category when it comes to standardized tests and how important you think it is especially for a student and for a school overall. We have divided lines differently. Edge waiters 202748800. For parents 2027488001 and all others 2027488002. Joining us on the phone to talk more about is emma brown with the Washington Post the National Educator reporter. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. Can you paint the picture about what is going on when it comes to parents pulling students out from taking tests . There are hot spots around the country where this has become still a minority of people, but a growing minority of people. You mentioned new york. New york is really the epicenter of this movement where 20 of the kids this year opted out. What parents tell me is that they see this as a form of civil disobedience, a form of protest against the test. Every parent has their own reason. What many said is that they are protesting the way that schooling has become so much about testing that there is so much pressure on not just their kids to do well but on teachers to make sure that their kids are doing well given the role that testing now plays in teacher evaluations in many states. 20 opting out in new york and then in other states. What does it do for locality where you see concentrations opting out. How does it effect the School System . That has been a question up in the air for the last few months as it has become clear that there are places like new york, albuquerque, new mexico, communities in new jersey where there is a large proportion of people who opted out. The federal law requires 95 of students in a school to take the test. This is kind of the first year that there have been a lot of places where its been clear that more than 5 of kids opt out. A few days ago the federal department of education and new york state officials said there were no consequences for the schools that had high opt out rates in new york. So they arent going to lose any money. What civil rights advocates say is this makes it impossible to track the achievement gap, makes it impossible to know what is going on with test scores if you have such a High Percentage of students who arent showing up in the overall scores. As far as a trend is concerned, is this a growing trend . Absolutely. I mean, two years ago the opt out movement was tiny, tiny. It wasnt something i dont think the National Newspapers were picking up on at that point. And then last year it began to hit the national consciousness. This year it has been sort of nonstop flood of Media Coverage. Sometimes Media Coverage outpaces the actual growth of a trend. I think in this case the numbers particularly in new york show this is a real trend. As far as those administered, the companies behind the administration of the test, those involved, have there been reaction from them . You know, i have not seen the most peerson makes the parcc exam and i have not seen response from them. I think they leave that to their school, the government to respond to those questions. Emma brown with Washington Post talking about this opt out movement on the standardized tests. You can see her writing at washingtonpost. Com. Thanks for joining us. Thanks so much. Your thoughts on standardized tests in tests. 2027488000 for educators. 2027488001 for parents and all others 2027488002. Lets start with chris in palm harbor, florida, a parent. Caller how are you doing today . Fine. Caller the whole thing with the standardized tests is it is 100 the teachers unions not wanting to be held accountable for the education of students. A few years back they were tested and a large percentage of the students failed so they changed the test. They didnt change the test on a move forward basis. They took questions out that people missed. In atlanta you have the situation with administrators doctoring tests and the whole teaching to the test is what we used to call in School Cheating except the teachers are cheating here instead of teaching the students what they need to know. We need standardized tests because we need to really show what the students dont know and the teachers dont want to see that because it holds them responsible for it and they dont want that at all. Blame the parents, blame society but dont want to take responsibility for our failing School System which has been failing for decades. Jeremy in washington, d. C. , an educator. Caller i just want to say that i spent a lot of time in my ged classroom teaching things that are not useful for 100 of my students in their future careers. It frustrates them and turns them off. A lot of them dont get their High School Diploma because they simply cant do the complex things that are totally not useful to their careers. Perhaps we could better prepare them if we taught them soft skills, deescalation techniques. As far as the tests themselves are concerned, what do they show as far as competency of the student . Does a student get to find out that information . What information is given to the School System . How does that work . Caller we definitely know what is on the test. We have a general gist of it. You know, the english and other tests are pretty much comprehension. I support what those teach. The math test is so awful. Way too hard for any normal person. Its just unnecessary and holding probably thousands of people in this nation back. Washington post takes a look at expulsion rates in schools across the United States showing expulsion rates for blacks saying it covers particularly 13 states, alabama, arkansas, louisiana, mississippi, north carolina, south carolina, tennessee, virginia and West Virginia in addition to missing out on in School Learning time they are more likely to have later contact with juvenile Justice System than similar students not removed. Some have begun to shift policies to focus on counseling and trying to redefine problem behavior. That is in the new york times. Your thoughts on standardized tests. Ted from idaho youre on. Caller i dont think they should be able to opt out on the standardized tests because it shows that a person, what a student learns in high school and shows what students learn in high school. They should be able to pass these tests. If they dont they are not going to be leaders of tomorrow. They wont do well in college. Then you support standardized tests overall . Caller i support that. Tell me a little about how it is done in your school and how do your students perform overall . Caller im not a teacher. And i just like a lot of students like 18 and 19 years old come in to these trade technical programs. A lot dont know basic mathematics and just seem like they are way behind. They seem like maybe college [ inaudible ] maybe to fill up the enrollment but they are not really that smart. In retrospect i say if they have the standardized tests and so therefore they didnt learn that much in high school and so you are not going to be a leader of tomorrow and are not going to do good in college. Lets hear from mark. Hi. Youre on. I dont have a problem with standardized tests as long as they are used as one measure. The problem is that too often they are used as the sole measure of student achievement and teacher effectiveness and then end up driving the train and shape the curriculum. Thats not always useful and helpful. It doesnt always provide the kids what they need. What other factors should be put into it as far as evaluation purposes is concerned . Caller one problem with standardized tests here in virginia is that they are just a snapshot in time. Like, for example, i teach eighth grade science. My test covers sixth, seventh and eighth grade. Kids are expected to demonstrate knowledge of three years worth of material. Maybe there is one question on the solar system. If they get that question wrong it is assumed they know nothing about space. Thats wrong. You cant take a snapshot and use that as the sole driver of the curriculum. As far as an educator is concerned, what is it like preparing for the tests . Caller its awful, because the test is given usually three to four weeks before the end of the school year. Everything shuts down. The emphasis becomes prepare for the test, prepare for the test, prepare for the test. You have to cram a years worth of material in less than a year because of the test. And after the test kids will ask you do we still have to learn . Because once the test is over in their minds school is over. Robert is also an educator in florida. Youre on. Caller i have been an advocate of the fact that the results of the test are used incorrectly. The results of the test should be to measure the curriculum of the school and to improve the quality of education in the curriculum and to deliver that education the students should never be evaluated by right and wrong answers on a test. The student is only responding to what they have been taught. You are on. We are asking about standardized tests, what you think of them. Caller i just wanted to give a students perspective of the situation. When i was in school i really didnt learn that much, to be honest. I was very lazy in class. But then again i did have teachers that did drive my imagination to at least think about things that were at least different. That is one of the things missing from school these days. There is not enough challenging of the mind to ask the question of why this happened or how this is done or why it is done for so many years. I wasnt asking myself that question until i went to middle school and my teacher threw me back in time and i started asking questions. My opinion on standardized tests is that it is okay to do those things at the younger age. Cram those basics in. When we get on the High School Level i think it is time for us to at least start to challenge the students and say how about questions to this and question the way our government is . How about you question how long this formula has been in our math equations for years . Its these questions that drive students and makes them who they are today. Thats what i wanted to talk about. An announcement says the National Security adviser susan rice will go to china and meet with senior chinese officials to consult on a range of bilateral, regional and global issue. The white house announcement saying under scores the commitment to providing more productive relationship as well as discuss areas of difference in advance to the chinese president to the United States in september. Jim is next on our all others line caller hi. I am 77 years old. I went to Public School until the third grade. And then i went to private schools and was tested all along. When i left Grammar School i was tested in order to get into a secondary school. And then to get into college i was tested again. And i am a harvard graduate. I got into harvard by taking standardized tests. This whole discussion is a great puzzlement to me. How do we measure things . The schools that i got into use tests as one measure of measurement, but they also considered other aspects of my upbringing in order to accept me. Testing had to be part of the whole picture. I speak two languages. I am very well educated. I went on beyond harvard and got more graduate education and testing was part of the whole picture. So i am just puzzled over the whole discussion. Ontario, canada. Maria joins us. Caller california. I am a parent. Im for standardized tests to measure effectiveness of the education, the quality of the School System, what states in the United States that children have right to education. The measurement should only be for state data only and shouldnt be tied into teachers evaluation. That should be done at the school district. Local control. It should be done there. It shouldnt tie in with the data how the kids are performing and should just be everybody should be aware how the kids are performing. Do you have students in the california system . Caller yes. How often do they test and how do they prepare at least the School System prepares them to take the test . Caller all the time preparing for the test. To me im like Education First and then tests. Not like every month and every six months and then before they do their finals. Mostly for the standardized tests and they change to smarter balance so it is different. We get true data because it is done by the computer now. The survey asked folks about measuring effectiveness in schools and factors in important at least those who participated in the poll. 78 said how engaged students were with classwork was important. 77 said students feel hopeful. 69 said it was the percentage of students who graduate from high school. Only 14 of respondents said that when it comes to effectiveness of schools that scores that students receive on standardized tests was most important in judging that effectiveness. Pdktest. Org is where to find the survey. Robert from north port, florida. Hello. Hello. Youre on. Caller my feeling is that as someone who works as a manager and employs people and hires people and interviews people and someone who went through testing himself, i dont see a way to skirt around standardized tests. We need to look at schools as being the nurturing points for kids to grow and develop into responsible human beings and to become employable. Employers more and more are demanding certain sets of information. The banking industry, you are going to want to have people who are qualified in mathematics and in accounting. And in the sciences you need people who have aptitude. You need surgeons who know what a scalpel is. To say that we can just go on a classroom environment and who is participating and pass them along i think will have dire consequences for us as a nation as far as having an employable group of upcoming students. Also, i would like to say that one problem that i have is that education is not changing. One thing that needs to change is cameras in schools. We have no accountability without seeing what is going on in the schools. We have kids saying i am being bullied. We have kids saying we dont do anything in class or im being picked on in class. How come our students cannot have their classroom environments monitored so parents and everyone can see what goes on in an Education System . Maybe that observation would bring bet changes we need. I dont think cutting standardized tests will start. Policy change when it comes to warrants. Writing that the city announced it would withdraw thousands and taking steps to response to the sharp criticism of court system that emerged after killing of michael brown. The measures go beyond a state law set to take effect friday that limits the amount of money municipalities can keep for minor traffic offenses and imposes safe guards on the amount of time people can be locked up for failing to pay fines and fees. Several others have announced similar amnesties. Joan from eastern pennsylvania. You are on. Caller thank you for cspan. As a grand parent i wanted to recount a little bit of conversation that i had with my granddaughter a few months ago. She was 11 years old and was in the sixth grade. She was about to take the standardized tests and i said have you decided to take it . She said i have to. I said you know your parents want you to take it . She said no. If i dont take the test then i wont be allowed to be in the gifted and talented program anymore. I said who said that . She said that is what the school said. I said that is very interested. She also said that the students who decided to opt out of taking the test were not allowed to leave the room and like go to the library and study or Something Like that. They had to sit in the room quietly while everybody else took the test and not do anything. So i just thought that was kind of punitive for the people who were opting out of this. Maybe there was something to be said from the woman you had on earlier who spoke about civil disobedience and not wanting their kids to just follow everything that was being put before them in the School System. In this case it was like if you dont take the test here is your option over here. I thought i would mention that. Thank you very much. Reporter teresa from florida, you are next on our parents line. Hi. Caller hi. I used to be a Foster Parent and worked with many kids that had to take standardized tests. Youre on, go ahead. Caller im sorry. I used to be a Foster Parent. I worked with kids that had to take this test. I disagree with standardized tests and the reason being is that schools are individual. If you live in a well to do upper middle class your experience at that school is to than your experience at an Inner City School that be may be in a poor neighborhood. How can you have a standardized test that is uniform across the board and not even be fair . Ill give you an example of that. Standardized tests, there are questions, in my opinion, dont make sense and you wont know the answer to. For example, does the teacup belong on the table, the window sill or the saucer . Well, maybe a child that comes from an upper class or wealthy neighborhood understands the teacup belong on the saucer, but a child that comes from a more you know, a regular class or lower class neighborhood may think, well, i put my dishes on the table. So, the answer, i would select would be the teacup goes on the table. Well, that answer would be wrong. And thats an example thats just one example of why i think standardized tests are wrong. A lot of these kids i work with are 15, 17, 18 years old and could not spell the word subway or wednesday. You know, these tests serve some use as far as collaborative data. They should not hinder a students progression because theyre not equal. Schools are not created equal. These students are not, you know, uniform products, like, you know, toaster ovens on an assembly line. Theres no way to standardly measure someones level of intelligence or the information they retained. There just isnt. And i think that these tests could be used for collaborative data or maybe if youre you could help the tests get an extra push if thaedz what you needed. If youre failing your classes, maybe the tests would give you a pass because you demonstrated you have that understanding. Maybe they want to be used more of the other but they shouldnt be an end all, be all. Got you. Thank you. Madeline, brooklyn, new york, an educator, thank you. Caller hi. Youre on. Go ahead. Caller okay. Hi. Well, i was going to say that the idea of opt out of a test madeline, keep talking on the phone. Dont listen to the tv. Go ahead. Caller so, what i want to tell you is the idea of opting out doesnt really exist in new york city. I mean, they use the term opt out, but its actual refusal to take the test as of the law. Im sorry . Uhhuh. Go ahead. Caller the idea of opting out doesnt exist. Pearson tests are terrible. They have typos, incorrect material in them, they are grammatically incorrect often and not grade appropriate. Theres a bunch of people from the school i work in that are trying desperately to opt out, as they say. Legally, the term should be refusal, which is a strong term, but it is also correct because no child left behind leaves you no option. There is no option. It is refusal to take a test and whatever happens after that just happens. So, there are children that are going on to middle schools with no test scores. That can be very detrimental to them. Lets hear from tom in missouri. Good morning, tom. Caller yes. Im actually against standardized tests because of my experiences in school. And thats fine because i did fine in my chemistry class, 45 years ago. When it came down to the final test of the semesters, they were all standardized and i could not pass one. I think each individual student should be taken individually and should be whether they want to take it or not because not all kids can understand whats on those standardized tests. Thats all ive got to say. When it comes to assessing student progress, the poll asks people about what they thought was most important. Most of the respondents said it was examples of the students work that was most important in evaluating progress. That was followed by written observations of the teachers and grades awarded by the teacher. The smallest percentage, 16 of respondents said it was only scores on standardized achievement tests in important in assessing student progress. John, good morning from orange park, florida. Hello. Caller yes. I wonder if i could give a different perspective, one being from the caribbean where tests were standardized. Isnt it nice that i could take a test down there and meet a student from south korea or china that was in algebra, we could test out on it. The emphasis should be on the student being responsible. Not the parent, not the school alone, because many of our parents overseas are high school graduates. They demanded students do well in school. Same with the military. Suppose i january in new jersey and i join in texas. We get to afghanistan and you need to know how to fire a weapon. You might get me killed. Thats emphasis on the student and kids in new york take algebra standardized tests and compare with each other. Not against the school or against the teachers. Thank you very much. Greg up next from ohio. Hi. Caller hi. First of all, i think that the word the way people talk about standardized tests has it has become a general pejorative term where people think it means something bad without even thinking what its all about. Its just a standard. A standard we should live by or to learn by. And i think one of the problems could be solved by just having the test at the beginning of the year instead of the end of the year. You know, if the kids come off summer break and the first thing they do is they start have about two, three weeks before they take a test. And the test would show what they learned over the last year or what they know, period. Its not what they learned in school. What they know. Thats what we really want to know, is what they know. Not what theyve been being drilled over the last couple weeks or couple months. George is in caller hello . Thanks for the call. George is up next, jacksonville, florida, a parent, hello. Caller yes, thank you. I lived and worked in 12 countries, good School Systems and bad. The federal government should say, yes, there has to be testing. However and collecting of data. However, the test content should be set by local employers and parents working together. Ill give you two examples. In our high school in rural alabama, the girls wanted to learn how to do mortgage calculations and savings calculations, called future value. Its in every computer now. But i cannot find a single kid in this country who i talk to who knows how to do this excel calculation. Thats item one. Item two is i had the highest starting salary in my university because i already had experience in the technical areas before i became an engineer. By ninth grade we should follow the british system which is to go ahead and split kids out and then test them for specific things, whether they want to be a welder, engineer, doctor, and then put them in technical training. Then they can go on and become a professional if theyre capable of doing it. Were not the whole School System is not set up right. Thats george. Mindy from gonzalez, louisiana, our line for parents. Hi, mindy. Caller hi. Youre on. Caller i just wanted to say that i think the standardized test is a bunch of bull because my daughter has been at this school for five years now and she is currently in third grade. Theyre talking about no child left behind, if thats the case, why is she in special ed . Thats all. New york times highlights the president s trip west to talk about issues when it comes to Climate Change and energy, saying that he gave a speech at the National Clean energy summit, announcing a series of measures to encourage solar power construction. Hell head to new orleans thursday to note the tenth anniversary of hurricane katrina, talk about how to protect cities against Global Warming effects. Next week hell be the first sitting president to visit the Arctic Circle and hell talk about the moral dimensions. Thats it for our program today. Another Edition Comes your way tomorrow morning at 7 00. Well see you then. Today cspan3 programming looks at veterans issues. Next a hearing with whistleblowers from the Veterans Affairs department where they continue to face retaliation for reporting wrongdoing. After that, a hearing on the procurement of nonva Health Services for former soldiers who usually receive medical care from department of Veterans Affairs facilities. Then a hearing about concerns over the heavy reliance on medication and the possible adverse effects of opioid therapy among veterans, including the risk of suicide. And after that, actor gary sinase talks about his effort to help american war veterans. An aarp report says half of retirees want to work past retirement or into their retirement agency. Coming up, Senate Aging Committee holds a hearing about the way in which employers are changing to accommodate hem. Your calls after the hearing about 5 45 p. M. Today. The cspan cities tour visits cities to hear from local authors and Civic Leaders every weekend on cspan2s book tv and American History tv on cspan3. This week with congress on the recess, cities tour is on cspan each day at 6 00 p. M. Eastern. More from co
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