Transcripts For CSPAN3 Undocumented College Students Survey 20240622

What goes on the brain activity is just many fold in terms of the connections that are being made, the synopsis being connected, so we are using that Brain Research to demonstrate that if we can get or not to demonstrate, but to convey to parents that are too busy to have this information that they are brain builders from the minute that that babys born. A lot of things we as parents have taken for granted, the way we raise our kids, there are a lot of parents, the parents that we are trying to reach, that dont have that information. They havent they themselves have not been brought up that way. So they feel like theres nothing i can do. The babies will learn when they go to school at 5 years old. By then its way too late. Thats where the gap, the huge gaps we have, actually theyre finding out that the gaps begin when they are 18 months old. In terms of the number of words. But its not the number of words. Its the quality of the words that are spoken. And the interactions whether youre looking at the babies in the eyes, whether youre touching the baby. So we have come up with a way that we can say for a busy parent that has two jobs and you dont we say you dont need any more time. The time that you have is all the time that you need when you have to bathe the baby, when you change the diaper, when you feed the baby, these are the interactions that you need to have with the baby. So thats what we are trying to do at that age. Obviously different stages of the curriculum we have different programs. And as you know in high school our emphasis is in leadership. The programs we do with the aspen institute, we think that those High Schoolers are we just dont challenge them enough. We dont ask them jeff mentioned that he was fascinated by how well they reacted when you ask them to do something. The problem is we dont ask them. We say, okay, you dont want to do it, okay. I think thats part of what the im not answering your question. Im not giving you one, two or three or four items, but im just saying that High Schoolers we need to challenge them. We need to make sure that they get involved, that they put their education to work that they can see that what they are learning is going to yield something. They can see a result right away. And thats where the Aspen Challenge is designed to do is one that says, okay, were going to help you along the way. Your pick a challenge and then well help you. And for those of you im jumping around quite a bit, but its like Water Quality or constitution, whatever different projects. Different projects they have to work on. They select it as a team. And again, one of the first things that they have to do is they have to learn to compromise. They have to learn to work as a team. They have to select which challenge. They have to decide which way to do which is the best way to do. Were trying to teach them the little bit of what real life is like. But by the end of the project its amazing the transformation, the quality of the projects they come up with in terms of helping or portraying a concept, an idea to the local community, the neighborhoods or the school, about that particular subject. They do a great job at the end of the process. They only have seven weeks to do this. This is in addition to their regular school work. And these are regular kids. I mean, these are not selected in any theyre very randomly selected. So for my last question, im going to try to tie together a few things i heard you say. And see how to you it ties in to what americas all about. In your last answer you talked about making not just good projects but making Civic Leaders, people kids who thought about something a little bit larger than themselves and how to Work Together for the civic and common good. Likewise when we talked about education you talked about the opportunity for everybody to get more involved instead of starting off with an unequal Playing Field. And in some ways throughout it all youve talked about this notion of what a Civic Society is. You said we dont teach civics anymore, but in some ways thats what this whole day has been about. Which is what is civics to us . I mean, what is our civic Common Ground . How do you think about all of that . Having come to america and now gotten involved with making sure the next generation can be have the opportunities you had . I think it was also mentioned earli earlier. To me civics is civility. Its being able to understand that even though we are we have differences, and we have different desires and we need to be aware that our private feelings doe feelings dont get in the way of others feelings. So it is a dance that we have to have whether we like it or not, we are in this together. And how to get that done is something that is not easy. It takes a little of training, if you will. We have to train ourselves. I think that we complain about the lack of movement in washington, d. C. In terms of getting things accomplished. But a lot of that happens, starts at the Kitchen Table. If we have a conversation at the Kitchen Table in front of our kids that says its very onesided, well, that child is going to pick up on that. And is also going to be onesided in one way or the other. So at the Kitchen Table we need to be aware that there are ears around that are listening to whats going on. And be aware. And if it goes all the way from that point as they grow up by example. We are the ones that need to lead that effort. Again, im not sure that i answered your question specifically, but it is getting along and knowing to compromise. I think that theres a lot of that that needs to be done. We try to get that into the kids minds as early as possible. Michael bezos, thank you very much. Appreciate it. My pleasure. [ applause ] thank you. [ applause ] tonight on American History tv, programs on the history of journalism starting at 8 00 p. M. Women reporters in vietnam with the museum hosting a program with women who covered the war. At 9 20 p. M. A look at the nation, one of the oldest magazines in america marking its 150th anniversary. The cspan cities tour visits literary and Historic Sites across the nation to hear from local historians, authors and Civic Leaders every other weekend on cspan 2s book tv and American History tv on cspan 3. And this month with congress on its summer recess, the cities tour is on cspan each day at 6 00 p. M. Today the history of greensboro, north carolina. Ucla released a report earlier this year about challenges facing undocumented undergraduate students in the u. S. The report called in the shadows of the ivory tower analyzes a survey of 909 undocumented graduates in 32 states who migrated from 55 countries. The first and largest study of its kind. The coauthors joined a panel at New York University earlier this year to talk about the report. Good morning. It is a pleasure to welcome you. And for those of you who live in new york, you know this is a rare example of sunshine in the morning. And its not even freezing. So its a great pleasure to welcome you to the steinhart institute for Higher Education policy. And i was thinking about our session this morning and thinking about how when i started this institute about 12 years ago i kept looking up the word policy in the dictionary. If you ever try to do that you discover its a difficult word. Its hard to get a good definition. And i think thats appropriate. Because when we think of policy, we each have an image in our mind or a definition thats overlooking in a dictionary. And in fact one of the misunderstandings about policy is policy use rules and regulations and laws, and we think of the federal government, the state government, the city government. But policy is also what institutions do. And i think that that is a misunderstood part of policy. The institutions whether theyre public or private, small or large, have a fair amount of latitude about how they behave and what kinds of positions they take and what kinds of services they offer. And i think that one of the things we need to do in the policy world is focus much more directly on how should institutions and also other kinds of social organizations think about policy and think about what kinds of interventions, services, supports, guidelines make sense at every level of our experience. And so thats why its been especially happy moment to welcome the authors of the study that you have read about and well hear more about this morning. Which really looked at the questions facing undocumented students and looked at those question from every advantage point, including and especially the student experience. So it is a unique kind of study in that regard. And one that i think well all find fascinating as we learn more. Now when you looked at our speakers for today, you may have noticed that three of them are from ucla. And i would like to remind those of you at nyu that these three people used to be at nyu. And i think that their presence here today is a symbol of the fact that once you are at nyu, you can never really leave. It is just like a magnet coming back. But we would like to congratulate them on their new roles and on this study. I should also say to remind you at nyu, we are now the Global Network university. And so in a sense we think of ucla now sort of like nyu west. So as we congratulate you, were also proud of your accomplishments. The way were going to proceed this morning, is im going to introduce all of the speakers and they will follow each other without further introduction. Our first speaker will be marcela suarezorozco. And the other comment i wanted to make is because we have very distinct wished speakers, for those of you not in academia, it is important to know that when someone is a high level professor with an endowed chair they have this other name that they start to use so some of the speakers have multiple names. But the name that is not their own name is the name of the person who gave a large gift to endo you their position. Okay. Let me start again. Marcelo suarezorozco is the wasserman dean and professor the education at the graduate school of education and information studies at ucla. Before joining ucla, he served as professor the globalize is and education at New York University. He is coauthor of the Award Winning book reporting the results of this landmark study, learning in a new land, immigrant students in american society. His Research Focused on the problems in the areas of cultural psychology and psychological anthropology and mass migration and globalization and education. Following him is robertter an issue, from comparative education and the morgan and helen chui, and codirector of the institute for immigration globalization and education at ucla since 2013. We also think of him as robert. Since 2004, he has served as a senior faculty fellow at the Steinhardt Institute for Higher Education at nyu where he was associate professor of Higher Education. His research is broadly focused on race, ethnicity and the stratification of college opportunity. Following robert will be carolla suarezorozco. Shes professor of education and codirector for the institute of immigrant children and youth at ucla. Prior to joining ucla she served as professor at New York University. Shes coauthor of the book learning a new land, immigrant students in america and shes editor of the journal of adolescent research. She focuses on mass migration, and globalization and education in psychology and anthropology. And a special welcome to steve choi bringing today the voices of the network of Community Organizations and advocacy organizations focused on immigration in new york city. Steve choi is the executive director of the new York Immigration Coalition and an umbrella Advocacy Coalition of nearly 200 member groups, representing new yorks immigrant communities. From 20092013 he was executive director of the min quwan center for Community Action which organized advocates for and educated the korean and Asian American Community Members in new york. Prior to that he was a staff attorney and founding director of the korean workers project at the Asian American defense fund. The only project on the east coast focused on providing Free Legal Services to low wage korean immigrants. Janet perez is a College Student and undocumented activist in the immigrant community. She was born in pueblo, mexico, bronx, new york. Okay. Our bronx. Janet is attending Lehman College of the City University and pursuing a double major in Political Science with Computer Graphics and imaging. Shes a corp member of the new york state leader Youth Leadership council. An undocumented Youth Coalition fighting for the undocumented community and coordinator of the mentoring programs. Hero yoshikawa, with the courtney sale ross professor at nyu and university profess feor nyu and studies Public Policies and programs related to immigration, Early Childhood and pofrdy reduction Poverty Reduction on childhood development. Previously he served as professor of education at the Harvard Graduate School and served also as the academic dean. So i hope you will give our speakers a warm welcome and then marcelo will proceed to report on his study. [ applause ] thank you so much. And thank you for your generous thank you for your warm introduction. [ speaking in a Foreign Language ] it is marvelous to be back at ucla, the nyu of the east. We love nyu and we miss it so much that were going to keep taking pieces of nyu back to the best coast. [ laughter ] thank you, ann. That is the kind of introduction that my father would have liked and my mother would have believed. Im really delighted to be back at nyu. Many of the ideas and the architecture of this and so many other Research Initiatives weve undertaken in the field of immigration, have the roots here at steinhardt and at nyu more broadly. So im delighted to have this opportunity to come back to the steinhardt, to come back to the institute to report on on our work. During the last decade of the 20th century and the beginning of the 21st century, the undocumented immigrant population of the United States grew substantially. From 3. 5 million in 1990, to a peak of 12. 2 million in 2007 as the rate recession began. It has been stable now for several years at about 11. 2 million according to the most recent estimates by our colleagues at the Pugh Research center. One inevitable result of having a large undocumented population over a long period of time is a growing number of mixed status families. While some are citizens by birth, some are authorized by law, some many are unauthorized and all in many, many families live in a kind of increasingly intolerable limbo. After five decades of mass migration, the foreign born population of our country includes millions of individuals who have been living in the United States for a long time and have wellsettled households, steady employment and deep community ties. This certainly applies to the undocumented migrant population which also has become more permanent and much more settled than in prior ways of mass migration. Never more than a third of the total foreign population, now closer to a quarter, the unauthorized workers in our midst, worshipers in our churches, and also parents of american children. A population of 11. 2 million, unauthorized migrants, more than 4 million are adults with u. S. Citizen children ands of 2012 those parents have been living in the United States for 15 years on average, according to the most recent data by pugh. As our country continues its long nowin terminable pause, pair an these hes, young people brought here as children without papers, perhaps 1. 5 million or so are graduating from high school in growing numbers and attempting to go on with their lives. Hundreds of thousands of undocumented College Students are struggling to find their way in Higher Education. We recently surveyed 909 undocumented undergraduates across 34 states that immigrated to america from 55 Different Countries. They attend an array of twoyear and fouryear public and private colleges that range in selectivity. The first and largest study of its kind exclusively focused on youth emerging adults in colleges. The study represents a number of findings. The new congress, scholars, activists, concerned citizens and like and above all Community Members should be wise to ponder. Undocumented students encompass a range of immigration histories, language backgrounds and religions. They are black, they are white, they are brown, they are asia and pacific islander. They occupy positions across the full spectrum of socioeconomic status. For them, like for many, many other young people in college today, college is a real challenge. These students are studying and working hard and they long to belong. The majority of them, 68 , are first generation to college. Not unique to this population, but a challenge nevertheless, as they have limited guides to navigate in and through college, especially in the shadows of the law. Their major of choice by far stem science, technology, engineering and mathematics which constituted 28. 5 of the reported majors. And clearly our fields were capable work force is more needed in the globalized 21st century that has given birth to the Global Network university. Yet these hardworking students live in a kind of, as of now, permanent, pair an these hes, limbo. Overwhelmed and stressed. The data painted a new and alarming picture of what undocumented College Students live in their days. With 61. 3 of undocumenteds students coming from families living on an annual Household Income of less than 42,000 per year, many are working while attending college and succeeding academically. More than half, 56. 7 of the students reporting being extremely concerned about paying for their college education. Among the students who reported their studies temporarily, 74 of them indicated Financial Difficulties as the primary cause for their stopping out. 72 worked and reported complications from juggling long hours at work, difficult commutes, and their studies. As such, many felt left out of campus life. If, in the 21st century, globalization is the macro context for mass migration, the family is todays mesocontext. Immigration is above all an ethical act of and for the family. One family starts the migration cycle and another family now reconstituted psycho socially completes the cycle over time and across generations. It starts with one family, at the end of the process, it is a very, very different family. Family separations and Long Distance family systems are normal in 21st century american immigration. The more this topic, the more dysfunctional, the more broken our immigration system becomes, the more extended separations and complicated reunifications are the Emotional Center of immigration in the 21st century. In our sample, 22 of our participants do not live with with parents in the United States. 93 have at least one undocumented parent. 13 6 of them have experienced the deportation of one or both parents. And 56 of them have undocumented siblings. 3 of them have experienced the deportation of a sibling. For them, family separations, deportations, and a transnationalism of the heart defines family life. For many, the fundamental psycho social consequence of our topic of the immigration system is alive akin to surviving and the guilt attached to remaining in our country when so many loved ones live in fear or have experienced deportation. Im going to now invite Robert Teranishi to share the findings and some of the policy perspectives and reminding us that policy is fundamental to the ethos to how institutions are constituted, how they work, how they dont work and how they need to be transformed. Thank you. [ applause ] good morning. Good morning. It is great to be here and its interesting when i was walking over here this morning, i said i think this is the earliest ive been on campus. Nyu is not a morning campus and neither is the village. So i want to begin by thank you ann for hosting this important event. And i want to acknowledge the Steinhardt Institute for education policy and stay a little bit about why im still involved. I think that there is a need for deeper discourse and debate about our education policy. And the institute does a good job and plays an Important Role in fostering that Public Discourse about the importance of Higher Education policy when it comes to things like college affordability, access, equity and Higher Education, how were going to train the next generation of leaders and our work force in society. So for those reasons, i really appreciate the opportunity to stay engaged with the institute. I also want to thank ourest teamed panel for our esteemed panel to talk about this report. As marcelo mentioned, im going to focus my comments on the policy issues that emerged from the study. And ill gyp by picking up on marcelos overview of our sample. I think it points to a few important points about what the demography of undocumented students revealed in terms of the policy context. First, no college or university should assume that these issues are not relevant to their campus communities. Second, the higher ed Community Needs to look beyond stereotypes and false assumptions that often drive the understanding and treatment of the student population. And then finally, this isnt an issue this issue of undocumented status and access to Higher Education, it is not just an issue that needs attention or is relevant to federal policy, right. So we often think about things like federal dream acts and comprehensive Immigration Reform as something that will solve the problems for the undocumented student population. And while it is relevant, policy exists in multiple places as ann mentioned, right. So we have to think about the role of institutional policies, state policies, and its relationship to federal policy. So with that context in mind,see want to explore how policies like daca may be relevant to the college experiences of undocumented students. And it is important to acknowledge that daca does nothing explicitly for College Students. So this is more about indirect benefits, its limitations and where there is opportunities to push the boundaries of what daca can do to expand access and opportunity into Higher Education. All right, so we found a key benefit of daca was that it afforded undocumented College Students with a work permit. So as a result, Daca Recipients were more likely than nonrecipients to have been working. This results in greater financial wellbeing. Not only did additional income help to offset the cost of college, Daca Recipients reported that their jobs were more commensurate with their future career aspirations. We were also interested in the impact of daca on access to internships because internship providers have residency restrictions. This is a barrier for undocumented College Students who are trying to pursue particular career paths. And we found that Daca Recipients were more than twice as likely than nonrecipients to have an internship experience. Over three quarters of the students with internships reported that the internships ann said i should explain what daca is. So daca is an executive action by president obama, the First Program was rolled out in 2012, and it is deferred action for children childhood arrivals. And it is basically temporary status that affords undocumented youth access to work permits and relief from deportation. So three quarters of the students with internships reported that the experience provided them with skills that prepared them for work. This is important because a number of students reported that internships were a prerequisite for careers in their fields of study. We also found that more than half of the students with internships received compensation. This is important for our population facing a number of barriers when it comes to college affordability. A large proportion of the respondents reported being commuter students. 75 . This made transportation and housing salient issues when it comes to their ability to succeed academically. We found that students with daca were more likely to have drivers licenses, had shorter commute times and spent more time on campus. We also found that daca enabled students to get access to more stable housing and again this is very important for students in terms of not just their ability to focus and concentrate on their studies but were talking about issues of safety and a sense of security. The data also revealed a greater sense of optimism for life after college. Among Daca Recipients, one indicator was a higher proportion of Daca Recipients aspiring to earn an advanced degree. But it is important to also acknowledge the negative consequences of the provisional nature of daca, right. So again, daca is temporary relief. It is not a pathway to citizenship or residency. So we had a number of openended questions and carla will go into more depth about this but students talked about being cautiously optimistic about about think future and not sure if they can fully realize their aspirations. So with all of these kind of positive findings, i think it is important to also talk about limitations. Barriers and challenges that continue to impede access to and success in Higher Education for undocumented students. College affordability, for example, is a major barrier. It continues to impact undocumented students. And theyre dealing with ambiguous policies, a lack of information, and inconsistencies in how institutions determine access to tuition and Financial Aid. For example, while some states have established inclusive tuition policies, other states have explicit exclusionary policies and the kind of biggest proportion of states is in the realm of unstipulated tuition policies. So this issue of in state and out of state tuition is important. The average out of state tuition is about double the typical instate tuition rate. Regardless of state tuition policies, there are also differences that exist at the level of institutions. So while a state can have unstipulated tuition policies or restricted tuition policies, institutions can have their own policies around access to instate tuition. Another thing that plays out, a lot of this is with regard to Public Institutions. Privates also have their own way of dealing with undocumented students when it comes to admissions and access to Financial Aid. And weve heard of a number of in stances where private institutions will treat undocumented students as International Students for example. So this presents a number of challenges for undocumented students. They are putting in this precarious position of determining who they should talk to to get information about access to information, whether or not this information is accurate. Right, so you go and ask two or three people in an institution and you might get two or three different answers. And to layer another challenge associated with just access to instate tuition is the issue of access to aid. To aid and tuition are kind of two different issues. So new york as an example, they have in state tuition for undocumented students but they do not have access to state aid, right. So there is only five states that where undocumented students can actually get access to state aid. New york is not one of them. And it is a point of contention currently because of the recent budget decisions that were made and im hoping we can discuss that further throughout the morning. There is also differences in how or how access to aid plays out at different types of institutions. So at twoyear institutions there is actually less access to aid than at fouryear institutions and this is probably because more of or more of aid for undocumented students is determined by institutions and afforded students by the institutions themselves with twoyear institutions having less forms of aid available for students. But again, layering the kind of Different Levels of policy and how it plays out for undocumented students, the context for all of this is that students do not have access to federal aid in the form of grants or loans. Okay, so i just want to say a little bit about some of the implications. We just came from washington, d. C. Where we were sharing some of the findings with policymakers. And so i just kind of want to touch on some of the implications of our findings for policy. I think there are opportunities for us to push the limits of what daca can do, specifically in Higher Education. Government agencies can evaluate how daca is relevant to programs that promote employment opportunities, internships and access to different forms of aid. Higher education associations so these are associations with memberships that could be institutions or people who work in higher ed institutions, these associations themselves should be frontline providers of information and resources for their constituents to better serve undocumented students. We need to resolve some of the challenges associated with ambiguous information, a lack of consistent information, and the need for more advocates in the field. Third, philanthropy should partner with scholarship and the others to create more funding opportunities. Cost again is a major barrier for any College Student, but especially for undocumented students that dont have access to a lot of forms of Financial Aid. We would like to see corporations review their recruitment and hiring practices and improve access to internships, fellowships and other career opportunities. This is potentially a space to develop privatepublic partnerships where the government can work with the private sector to help create a better academic and career pipeline. This is critical for fields like stem where we have a shortage of talent, especially among students of color, women and lowincome students. This report just kind of scratches the surface of some of the policy issues that exist for undocumented students and how people in different spaces need to come together to start to tackle some of these challenges. Ill give you an example. While a student can now attend a Public Institution and pay instate tuition and might even get access to institutional aid, they can get an internship, they have a work permit, but that doesnt mean you can get a license to practice in certain fields. Like so you say great im now going to train to be a teacher but were seeing that certification is a barrier in a lot of different fields. So there is just so many issues that are emerging and we need to kind of Work Together to try to tackle these. Thank you. [ applause ] good morning, everyone. Ann, i want to thank you so much for organizing this wonderful event and i want to thank my esteemed panelists for joining us as well. I cant tell you how delighted i am to see some of my former colleagues who came out this morning and i also am honored that so many of you came to to have this conversation this morning. It shows, i think, how important this is to so many of us. And its encouraging that so many of us are taking this so seriously. So today im going to im going to turn to the psycho or im going to turn to the psycho social issues of our study. Ours was an interdisciplinary study. And let me see here. So this question, and because our panelists cant see what is up on the screen, im going to be reading things that i might not have said because i would have assumed that you could all see it. So there is going to be an echo effect. So apologies for that because i think it is only fair for you to comment on things you cant see. So there is a question on the screen, what is Biggest Challenges you face as an undocumented College Student. And this question was both the qualitative question, one of the three questions that was imbedded in our study, but also kind of a driving overarching question that was at the bottom of our quantitative questions. So what are the Biggest Challenges you face as an undocumented College Student. So what im going to do now is reinforce the points ive already made but also kind of show you what the students were saying and then try to talk a little bit about the implications for practice at the higher higher ed level. So as has been implied earlier, financial concerns was a key issue. So we learned that the vast majority of the participates were concerned or concerned about paying for tuition and fees. Even paying for basic books and supplies was a concern for most, with 29 being extremely concerned about books and supplies. Lets hope i dont push this off the podium. So a quote that kind of gives you the sense of this and there were many, many and were showing you. Financing my education. There are limited scholarships and Financial Aid barely covered tuition costs. Another one says, i got accepted into uc berkeley which was my dream school but i was not able to attend because i was not able to get enough money for scholarships to go. It was so heartbreaking knowing how hard i had worked in high school and still not being able to go. So many so many of our young people said that they had to settle for a lesser a lesser level of school because of financial concerns. So they would go for example to a Community College when they could have gone to a higher rated fouryear college. So another issue, because of Financial Aid, was feeling left out of campus life. So as one says, lack of Financial Aid, which results in not being able to live on campus. Another said not being able to participate in college experiences like studying abroad,in turning in certain programs and getting academic jobs and traveling with certain organizations. So they are not able to participate in the very things that so many students who dont face the issues on undocumentation take for granted. They also spoke about issues of finding allies on campus. So one of the Biggest Challenges is knowing who i can turn to for help to understand my undocumented status as a College Student. Not having a safe space where i can express my feelings about being undocumented. Another says, finding people that i can connect with and people i can trust. Twothirds reporting so this recurring theme of being misunderstood or disconnected was a really prevailing issue. Twothirds reported they had experienced discrimination because of their legal status. Another key and driving issue were fears of deportation. This occurred at the personal level, so for example and this going back to what robert was saying, for folks who had daca, they began to talk about saying well i dont have to worry about being detained or deported, so once you have daca, at a personal level this was alleviated. But what we began to see, they reported having ongoing concerns for their loved ones. So they say things so im afraid for my parents and brother who does not have his daca yet. The fear of deportation never goes away entirely until you know your whole family is protected and we heard over and over and over issues like that. Im afraid of my parents being deported on any random day. And we see this in the numbers. And im sorry you cant see this, but the vast majority of respondents indicated ongoing deportation concerns, both for themselves and for family members. So we see that the worries about detention and deportation went down somewhat for those with daca but they went up for loved ones. So the folks at daca were more worried about their family members than the ones who dont have daca. So it seems like once folks had daca, as they crossed over to safety or at least temporary safety for themselves, they started worrying even more for their loved ones. So one of the things given all of the stresses that folks have talked about and also because there is good qualitative work done before our research we thought it would be important to administer a measure of anxiety as part of the survey. So we administered the generalized anxiety disorder, a brief scale, which has seven items. It has been normed. Widely on diverse samples and people are asked to respond to seven items that have a stem that goes over the last two weeks, how often have you been bothered by the following problems like not being able to stop worrying or con krolling worrying. So we administered this item and here is what we found. We found that we basically found very, very elevated levels of anxiety for our participants, for all of the reason were zeusing. So female anxiety rates so here these numbers, the lower bar is what the norm sample is and the elevated bar is what our sample was, okay. So what we found is that the females in our sample had anxiety levels three times higher than the norm group. So 9 versus 37 . And for the males, it was seven times higher. So males have typically 4 and 28 for the sample. So that is quite striking. Now to try to finish on some more positive notes, we asked there was a clear longing to belong. Sorry im trying to so they talked about not having im actually going to skip this. We asked we asked them to we asked them about about whether if they had a chance to participate in the nation state, if they had a right to become a citizen, whether they would choose to do so and we found that the vast majority would, in fact, 90 , would choose to become citizens, so i think there is a narrative in probably not too many in this room, but in some places in the nation that immigrants dont want to belong, i think this is a clear sign that in fact there is a clear longing to belong. We also ask them about their Civic Engagement and participation. 80 reported they were engaged in social causes this they care about that ran the gumute to helping others. And in the last decade the dreamers are on the forefront for the line for change because they bravely expose themselves on campuses across the nation, they brought awayness to the issue of this very important topic. At the sam time there is huge uncertainty about this issue in the future. Our participates talk our participants say it is holding back. It is not just stressful, but it is depressing for any human being to be motivated to think, dream, or plan a future. Another sort of that sort of sums it up, what happens when daca ends . And i think their concerns are very apropos. Despite the president ial announcement in december, they have continued reasons for concern and uncertainty. Their parents and family members remain vulnerable to deportation as they are not protected by dapa. Further the new congress is threatening continually to undermine the immigration accountability executive action. As such, our National Policy context remains extremely uncertain. I i do want to turn to we had a question at the very end of the survey where we asked them an openended question that said, what recommendations do you make, would you make, for administrators on campus to improve your your experience on campus. And the participants poured their hearts out and gave tangible kind of recommendations which could be a whole talk in and of itself. But i will tell you that the recommendations fell into several buckets which i will summarize very quickly now because i want to turn it over to my colleagues. So one of the buckets of recommendations was around asking members of the Campus Community to really stop, to listen, and to learn about them. They are a key constituency on many campuses all over the country. Certainly in many of the key states. But as we learned, all over, right. There was a saying in the blblt Community Back in the 70s, we are everywhere. And i think that the saying stands for this community as well. They also ask that we train we train faculty and staff to understand their needs and aas robert was saying, everything is changing all of the time. So what is true today is not true tomorrow. And that is part of what we need to be doing, is constantly being aware and finding out what is new. You cant be complacent about what you think you know. Certainly about some of the some of the basic psycho social issues, that isnt going to change a lot from one minute to the next, but the legal and policy issues are changing constantly. And so that is related to providing up to date information. Providing Financial Support is absolutely essential. Providing safe zones. This was a recurrent and by the way not expensive thing that can be done on every campus. Finding ways to provide safe spaces for students. And then lastly, because of the Mental Health issues that we see, providing culturally relevant and Counseling Services is, i think, essential. So in summary, organizations like united we dream, the new York Coalition and many others have been on the frontlines channeling the voices of unauthorized students over the last few decades with similar messages i think to many of the findings that weve put here, im sorry, i havent given you the little bullets. That weve put together in this report. I hope this data provides empirical evidence to support and serve the community with that will with tested recommendations. So thank you very much and i turn it over now. [ applause ] great, thank you. Good morning. Id like to thank nyu and i would like to thank my fellow panelists for inviting me to be here today. Unfortunately i have no other name as associated with my position. Im steve choi, the executive director of the new York Immigration Coalition. We are a coalition of about 165 member agencies, all across the state, that have a stake on immigration and believe very strongly in a lot of the benefits that immigrants bring. So this particular discussion today is very poignant for me because we are coming off the heels of an effort, a campaign over the past couple weeks and the past couple of months to get the new york state dream act included in the budget and of course that went down to a very crushing failure by not getting in the budget. The game is not yet done. There is still several months in the legislative session and ill talk a little bit about that effort to get the new york state dream act passed in just a little bit. But it is also a thoughtprovoking, not only from our position as the coalition, as an Advocacy Group fighting for the dream act but also as the coordinator of a major 18 Million City Council initiative that weve been operating over the past couple of years working with the city council. And that is an effort to find the hardest to reach daca potential recipients. Not the cap and gown folks who already know how to get to college and know what their rights are, but the folks who are not necessarily the folks you are thinking of. People young day laborers and restaurant workers and sometimes with kids but they are potentially eligible for daca and we should think about them as well when we think about Higher Education because they are part of the mix and i wanted to emphasis that as well. So the first thing i would say is that it is interesting, and i think i took some time last night to really read through the study which is excellent of course. And i just it is interesting because my experience with undocumented immigrant youth in College Students is not as the subjects of study, but as the agents of their own destiny. And i think the thing i want to point out is that undocumented immigrant youth have thrust them selfinto the forefront of the Advocacy Movement over the past couple of years. And you see that nationally. You see groups like united we dream, really putting an edge to immigration advocacy, doing things that a lot of established organizations like we as the new York Immigration Coalition or our International Partners we balked to do before. And they have made a tremendous change. They have been a gamechangener the way that immigration advocacy in our never ending fight for comprehensive Immigration Reform, they have completely changed the rules of the game. So i think when you look at things like the president s announcement of daca in 2012, that was in many ways the direct rupt of the advocacy of undocumented immigrant youth who went and took over president obamas campaign offices, who did sitins and did not hesitate to target both democrats and republicans. And so i think it is a remarkable fact and one that we would do well to keep in mind. And even on the state level and the local level as well. You see organizations like the new york state Youth Leadership council and organizations like. And it would do us well not to forget that. [ technical difficulties ] so ill keep my remarks short but i want to share a couple of thoughts in looking at the study and some of the results that they found. One, and i think that this is i want to add a little bit of context to this, but one is that daca, in our experience, dack as has provided a new lease on life. And i differ from some of my colleagues here in that i think the impact of daca is not that folks are, you know, less concerned about their own deportation or anything like that. I think the fact is that for kids and for youth who are able to get daca, it means more than just simply being able to get a Social Security number and being protected from deportation, it means you can conceive of a future here in the United States. I remember that one of the students that i worked with closely, ive known him for about four years, a korean undocumented immigrant student, he was a cooney and honor student. But before daca happened, i would meet with him and meet with him fairly regularly and i would sit down and i can say his first name, i think he is okay, peter, what are you thinking about doing. You are a junior going into your senior year and what are you going to do and he said i dont know. Without daca or any kind of legal status like that, your options, post college, are very limited. What are you going to do . There are some there are some opportunities to have a consult business or be an independent contractor or start a coop but daca provides you with an opportunity to work after college and that allows kids like peter to imagine a future here in the United States beyond colonel and beyond college. And he was able to apply for daca and he was able to get it and he is a budding filmmaker and just got married and he sees his future in the United States whereas before going back to korea and adjusting to a country that he left 18 years ago, that in many ways are his only option other than going into the underground economy. So i would say that the impact of daca, at least that weve seen, has been that it provides that post college goal and provides him with a vision and the ability to think about having a future here in the United States. And that is in our mind is one of the key things. And it is also true when we look at our effort with the daca initiative. We work with about 30 organizations across the city doing outreach, finding people who are hard to reach daca folks, who may not know that they are eligible for daca and in that age range. So they may be day laborers, restaurant workers or landscapers. And so weve been trying to get them to say we have an opportunity to go back to Higher Education, to get a degree, to be able to provide for your family and to get daca status. And one of the things we found is that that kind of barrier between being a worker and being just a lowincome, lowwage worker and a College Student is a fluid one. So but the folks that have been able to go through and that have learned about daca and eventually gotten daca, it has been an amazing change in their lives as well. So i think that both in terms of the tangible benefits and the intangible benefits, the importance of daca in our mind cannot be understated. The second point i want to make. Financial aid continues to be a major stressor for these individuals. There is a lot of talk recently about the rising cost of college and how that does effect everybody. But for undocumented immigrant students and im sure janet can talk about this in much more detail, but the rise and cost of college is not a bump in the road but an impassable barrier. And a huge barrier even for the kids going to cooney and going to sunni. But for the kids going to nyu, where tuition and cost and fees are, what, more than 60,000, 78,000 next year, nothing makes you old than hearing the cost of college. I mean 70,000 per year is a insurmountable financial barrier, right. So i think it is especially for students who are barred by law from taking advantage of pell grants or barred by law from taking advantage of the state assistance tucson is program and the Financial Aid and the Financial Assistance and the impossible of accessing those is a major barrier and one that effects us all. If we are not doing what we can to allow undocumented immigrant students and studies show the great majority of undocumented immigrant youth are not going to college because of financial barriers we are not doing our state and our country we are doing it a disservice and that is something we as a society have to look at ourselves and think what are we doing along this front. The stories that we heard around the new york state dream act were particularly poignant. The new york state dream act would allow access to the states Tuition Assistance program or tap. It would allow access for the approximately 4,000 undocumented immigrant youth that graduate every year. When you hear of those on the Hunger Strike, they felt it was important in the middle of mid terms to ebb gage in the engage in the Hunger Strike because this issue was that important to them because they face on a day in and dayout basis how important tuition access is and how important each single dollar is. If we dont do something about Financial Aid and how to break down the Financial Financial bao Higher Education, then we need to really reexamine what we are doing as a society. The last point that i would make is public support and endorsement does make a difference. You know, i know that at nyu last fall, i know they made a public announcement stating that there would be Financial Aid available to undocumented immigrant students. And i believe it was really the efforts of the nyu dream team and other advocates to really make that happen. I want to encourage them for that. But the faksa lot of colleges dont expressly mention their support for the undocumented. And for the ones that do, and you see this with the cuny dreamers that we have spent a lot of time working with, cuny and especially some of the leadership there, people like senior vice chancellor jay hirshenson, they have come out front and center and said the new york dream act is one of their top advocacy priorities. They said that they want and need to do everything they can to support undocumented immigrant students, even given the legal barriers that they face that has made a major impact in the mindset of these students. They feel less isolated. They feel supported. And these kinds of intangible benefits, i think its important for us to remember that these do make a difference. And so public support and making sure that the leadership of Higher Education is coming out clearly and strongly in support of these undocumented immigrant students is absolutely something we should be pushing for. Finally, as an advocacy organization, i do want to say that the fight for the new york state dream act is not over. Im sure there will be some questions about that from the panelists. The fact of the matter is the governor put it in his budget, and then he took it out. And i dont think that i am saying anything untoward by saying we did not have enough support in the assembly nor in the senate, obviously. But we didnt have enough support from everybody. All of our elected leaders let us down. And so i would say we still have a couple of months to get something passed. Its going to be a tough road. Its going to require everybody who is engaged around this issue, undocumented immigrant students at the forefront. Advocacy organization such as ourselves. Other social justice progressive organizations, and a lot of other stakeholders. Business, Higher Education, were all going to need together to Work Together and to fight together to make the new york state dream act a reality. But we can do that this year. And so i would ask all of you in this room to think about what you can do to support the new york state dream act. Whether it is joining a Hunger Strike in solidarity with some of these really brave and courageous students, whether it is making contact with your local state senate or your local state assembly person. Signing on to a petition to the governor. Making sure that he lives up to his words. He campaigned on the new york state dream act. This is a Campaign Promise for him. And, you know, weve told him that we think he has broken it. What can you do as an ordinary resident of new york state . There are plenty of things that you can do. And i encourage you to be engaged. We have a couple of months to get this done. If we dont get it done, were looking at probably not getting it done in 2016 because its an election year. And every single year that this happens, more than 4,000 undocumented immigrants Student Graduate every year. And it breaks my heart that theyre not able to access. So thank you. [ applause ] hi, everyone. Im a little short. So im very happy to see everyone here and be part of this panel. As an undocumented Student Activist who has been involved with the immigrant Rights Movement for quite some time, im here to talk about my experience as a directly impacted person. Yeah. As the report has found, and i kind of read through it, there is a need for a closer examination of the guidelines for federal and state Financial Aid for both undocumented students and citizen and lawful children of undocumented parents. As it was quoted in the report. As steve from the nyic mentioned, we have been fighting for the new york dream act since 2011. Based on 2011 findings, 50 , only 5 to 10 of 4,500 undocumented students from high school graduate. And only 5 to 10 of those students continue for Higher Education. The nislc has been working endlessly since we first drafted the bill in 2011. Up until now, new york dream act has garnered enough support from organizations and different groups and has now been turned into what is called the new york dream act coalition. Since 2011, we have been mobilizing, organizing, and putting our lives on the front line. We have done various actions, which include vigils, marches, protests, civil disobediences, walk to albany, walk from the new york to albany, where undocumented youth, actually walked 150 miles. But three times it has passed through the legislature and three times it has failed. It is really disappointing to see that in the state of new york, the message has become very clear to us, right . That the new york state does not support Higher Education for undocumented students. As steve mentioned, it was recently taken out of the budget. And were told there were a lot of back door deals happening with a dream fund going around. And i just wanted to state out there that thats not what we want. We dont want a fund that has no secure funding to it. So thats just a little bit kind of like the policies that we were talking about that should be implemented for undocumented youth. And in the state of new york, thats one of the policies that we are trying to campaign for to help get passed in the state of new york. And something wasnt mentioned, almost part of the dream team which was one of the first dream teams ever created in the whole state of new york, which was created in 2010 as a support group for undocumented students and we created that team as a Resource Group to support, to give each other support our resources and information. And just a little bit going off a little bit about the report, something that i wasnt really mentioned is that being undocumented starts once you find out that you are undocumented, right . A lot of people knew a lot of people either face two ways, right. For one, you either grow up, youre living in this country, you think life is good. But then all of the sudden you find out that youre undocumented, and you face that harsh reality. In a second way, like in my situation, i always knew that i was undocumented. My parents always revealed that to me, right . They always told me stay low, dont talk to anybody. We could get deported at any moment. But i never i never really processed what that meant to my life. At such a young age when i came here at six months old, i grew up in this country. At such a young age when they told me that information, i didnt know how that would affect my life. And just as my point for bringing that up is that even though daca has been very helpful in providing deportation relief, providing working permit, Social Security number, even though that has provided us with that kind of relief, its still its still something that starts at a very young age. And something that i would like to point out is that its great that we would like to have the resources, create conscious, faculty and the campuses, create safe spaces for the undocumented youth, have mental and Health Counseling for undocumented youth, but it is also important to note that a lot of our First Encounter with Higher Education comes from high school. And it starts from there. So thats very important to point out. And Something Else that they were mentioning about creating a safe space. I didnt i actually had the i had the opportunity to talk to my counselor where she actually encourage me. But unfortunately, thats not the case for many undocumented youth who their First Encounter in high school is either the guidance counselor, the teachers. And instead of being encouraged, theyre actually being discouraged, right. So even apply for college, or to even think about these possibilities. Because thats not even thats not because thats due to the lack of knowledge. Something else that we wanted to point out that we fundamentally believe that the greatest impacts for undocumented people comes when undocumented people are part of the process. After all, who better to understand the needs for undocumented people than undocumented people themselves. As being undocumented, as being undocumented student, going to school, working, always striving for social change and dealing with incredible fear and anxieties, we dont exactly have an easy task at hand, which is why our experiences and expertise should be validated. A great example comes this very own institution in which the panel is being hosted in. The nyu dream team is actually close we have built a close relationship over the past few years and its an ally space that works closely with organization which are undocumented youth led. And their intentions have been to center undocumented youth input. And from that close relationship, as using it as an example, nyu has actually gotten the institution to open up Financial Aid to its undocumented students. So i think thats very important to share. And also in creating these spaces, we are able to have, like, other spaces for such as Something Else that were also working is the immigrant youth and Parliament Conference which is started in california, but then brought to new york as a means to provide resource, support, and information to undocumented youth. And things like that we should be taking into consideration when were trying to provide safe spaces for undocumented youth, because it is important to have their voices at the forefront. And throughout the process. So thats pretty much pretty much what i want to talk about. I would also like to point out we would like to continue these spaces and Work Together to keep implementing change for undocumented youth. Especially organizations and groups that support undocumented youth, but dont really support them when it comes to the actual work. We should just keep fighting for these changes that we should be seeing in not only institutional not only institutional spaces, but also outside where it was mentioned that all undocumented youth that have daca go to college. Theyre also part of the workforce. Its important to not only leave those kind of people out, because their lives are just as valuable as people who do go to college. And we should not be making that distinction. [ applause ]. Good morning. Im going to be brief because i know were headed towards 11 00 to leave room for q a from the audience. First i want to thank the members of the panel and Marcelo Carola and robert for inviting me. Its a historic study. I was privileged to be able to read an early draft, and its wonderful to see it having an impact in not just academia but in policy circles with their briefs at the center for American Progress in washington recently. So whats not in here is that i know there are many challenges to conducting this kind of research, online surveys which ive heard a little bit from carola. So i actually think there is a tremendous amount of work that went into this. Very, very careful attention to representation. Im just going to highlight brief comments on four themes. The first is reframing the undocumented. And reframing them is a resource for the nation is critical. And im glad that both steve and janets comments really kind of fit this theme for this 1. 5 million youth who are unauthorized themselves. First of all, the sheer diversity of the countries of origin that they are coming from all over the world. The 50 countries represented in this study, thats very important. I look forward to hearing more about their actual experiences. I love that there was qualitative information in here. But i just wanted to highlight two things which reveal just how strong and as much as a resource these students could be, are for the nation. Which is that over 28 are stem majors. And we know we have a crisis in the stem field in this country, around students from immigrant origin backgrounds and more diverse stem major population. Many are high achievers. 80 have gpas over 3. 0. Now i dont think that was mentioned by anyone today. But that is quite extraordinary. And so when we consider the strengths of this population, i think the lack of a policy response, the scattered policy responses from states from Higher Education institutions becomes that much more shameful. Turning to daca, 26 states have sued to prevent implementation of the obama executive action as of this point in time. And what is worrisome beyond that and building i think also on steve steves points from the new York Immigration Coalition is that those who have received daca tend to have higher levels of education in this data set. They are in the more selective universities. And nationally, those who are least likely are those who have not completed a high school education, may be parents themselves. Thats a population that i study, undocumented parents of young kids. Those not enrolled in formal Adult Education. And although new york city really led with the creation of 18 million worth of Adult Education slots in the new York Immigration Coalition really led in this fight with the city council and then mayor bloomberg, new york is still i think the only city in the country that has passed a specific Adult Education slots for this population that are daca eligible but havent applied or accessed it. And there are many barriers like costs, information. Some groups of course less likely to know that they are eligible. Turning to the college experience, i think there was some shocking data in this report that id like to highlight. And that is the experience of discrimination on campuses. And i was shocked that roughly 1 3 of the sample reported unfair or negative treatment from professors, from counselors, and from university administrators. Now that shows that there is a climate above and beyond i think Higher Education policies around aid and tuition i think there is a tremendous amount of work to do the Higher Education level around practice. And as janet mentioned, this reaches down into high school and what these students might be hearing. And we have to think of the many more thousands who dont even make it into colleges or universities in part because they are hearing these kinds of comments which are creating isolation and discrimination. And what should really be the protected environment of learning. We know how harsh the work conditions of the unauthorized are. And we cannot be adding to those kinds of stresses and discrimination in the very settings for learning and education and social mobility that represent the schools and universities of our country. Finally, around research directions, i think we need many more surveys like this. We need them specific to campuses like nyu, like universities in new york city and new york state. Nyu students ahmed alief and brian nelson, one from science and arts colleges have been collecting these kinds of surveys in the city across multiple campuses. I see brian here. Are you both here . Yeah, theyre both here. And then broadly, much more broadly on the national level, we need to add issues of legal status and the experience of legal status to Ongoing National surveys like the American Community survey, the Current Population survey. This will be one of the recommendations of a National Academy of Sciences Panel im on the incorporation of immigrants into american society. We need to add questions on activism among youth and what portion are engaged in that activism, and how to spread that kind of Civic Engagement work that really does empower this group. Not just youth, but parents who are starting to enter that picture. We need to understand the wages and work conditions of those who received daca. Are the rates of illegally low wages which i found in our study of undocumented immigrants in new york were as high as 40 , illegally low, wages below the minimum wage. Are those rates lower . They should be when you have official permits to work and things like a Social Security number. But overall, thing is a historic study. I hope it drives a lot of practice and policy change, particularly in Higher Education across the nation. And i think were at 15 well, 12 minutes. And instead of my posing questions, i think its best maybe if we open it up for q a from the larger group. Im sure you all have a bunch of questions. And youre going to moderate that . Okay. Thank you. [ applause ] thank you very much to cower panel. We have some time for questions, not a whole lot of times. What i would like you to do if you have a question we have a portable microphone that is going to circulate. Tell us who you are, where you are from. And your question which you can address to the panel as a whole or an individual on the panel. So are there any questions . Yes, right here in the first table. And can you stand up also . Thank you. Hi, im bonnie. Im from san francisco, but im a graduate student here studying Higher Education at nyu. I really appreciated the study. I can understand how its highly general. You can generalize it to the entire country being that its private, includes Public Institutions, two years, four years, et cetera. But my question is kind of directed to those of you who are at ucla, being that the study is coming out of the institution. What do you see as the immediate implications at the university being what you found from the study at ucla being very special i think because california has such a high undocumented population. The Los Angeles Area in particular, and ucla, like the other uc systems having a different tiered tuition system where the out of state tuition is nearly three times the instate and et cetera. And you can focus on the socials a sfoeraspects or the tuition aspects, whatever. So earlier i was talking about states like how the state context matters. And they matter in terms of both access to instate tuition, so more equitable tuition policies, and they also matter in terms of access to state forms of aid. And california is one of the more progressive states. They do a better job than most other states. They have a policy called ab540. They also had a california dream act. And institutions, the university of california generally has created funds to specifically target support at the campus level for undocumented students. You know, ucla has over 600 undocumented students. Just the fact that they know that i think is something that speaks to their desire to want to know and understand and support these students. We have staff and an office that supports undocumented students on campus. And they work closely with student organizations, and they also work as a conduit to other offices on campus. And so ucla is a good example. I think they also feel like they could do more. And so there is always kind of ongoing dialogue about how to improve services for undocumented students. I also wanted to just add a little bit in kind of response to what youre asking, and also hiros comment. After this report, we drilled down a little bit into comparing the fouryear publics to the fouryear privates to the Community Colleges. And we looked a little bit at the differences in terms of what how it matters. And so we found that the fouryear privates do better, not surprisingly, in terms of giving more Financial Aid, right. But the fouryear publics are much better at kind of a general climate of so there was a lot more discrimination going down like student on student and faculty on student in the fouryear privates. So, you know, a lot of our respondents were coming out of california and they came from all over, but we just happened to have more coming from california and from the uc system. And, you know, the uc system is a special ucla happens to be a extraordinarily they were on the forefront of the dream movement. So it is a special space in a lot of ways. So the only thing i would add is i think the great tip oneill who once said and ann is the only person in the room who remembers who tip oneill was. No, a few others. All politics is local. And this is true in the two domains were trying to marry here. This is true in Higher Education policy, and this is true in immigration policy. In our country, we basically have were coming to a new normal, where each state has the the policy mechanisms throughout immigration are so varied. And if you find yourself in california, if you find yourself georgia, if you find yourself in illinois, you might as well be in three Different Countries because theyre so theyre so disparate. The centrigikal suggests that its going to be different in what states you find yourself and what institutions you find yourself in. I just wanted to add since so many of you either teach in Higher Education programs or study in them that we have to remember how internally complex every university and college is. So its often very confusing, because a college may aggressively recruit certain students and then not treat them very well, because there is no its very hard to disseminate either policy change or cultural change in an institution. And faculty are just one small piece of it. Its not unusual for a college to welcome, officially welcome students, and then have the student be sort of at sea and not feeling very comfortable once he or she arrives. We hope its none of our institutions, but we know that these things do occur. Anyway, more questions . All the way in the back, miriam. And please introduce yourself. Hi, im miriam eisenstein. And this is obviously a safe space for all of us. And you know, this is a very receptive audience as well as a wonderful and dedicated panel. I have a know your enemy question. What is the mythology on the other side that would result in someone like andrew cuomo dropping the dream act from his budget . And what are the myths that we can counter with evidence . Steve, do you want to start on that . Sure. I can speak to that. Actually, its just a couple of weeks ago that we put out an oped specifically titled that. It was myths about the new york state dream act, trying to repel those. The number one message that we hear, and we heard this across the state, particularly around the elections last year was that why are you giving taxpayer money to illegals . Right . Our native born children are already having a hard enough time with the rising cost of college to be able to afford college anyway. Why are we taking taxpayer money and giving it to illegals, right. So, you know, and i think that we really pushed back, and we said, look, here is what the new york state dream act is all about. Its about providing equal footing to everybody. Its saying that we have a pool for the Tuition Assistance program tap that is going to be boosted up by 27 million. I mean, it should be bigger anyway. It really should be very, very large. But were going to boost it up by 27 million. And we will change the regulations that will then get rid of the residency and the status requirement and basically allow undocumented immigrant students and other students who are refugees or victims to be able to access that. And so thats what it does. It allows undocumented immigrant students to be on the same Playing Field as everybody else, right. Youre not taking a big chunk of money and directing it specifically to undocumented immigrant students. Not that we would necessarily be against that. But in order to combat that specific talking point, that was really the structure. The problem is that politics and demagoguery and messaging get in the way of facts. And we still hear this all the time. Dean skelos who is the Senate Majority leader came out recently who said why do we give money to people who cant even work anyway after they graduate . Its simply not true. The politics of this. They made it specific. The republican state senate, who is now the majority in the new york state senate, you have got to get something by them if you want to have something happen, they thought that they won last years elections because they demagogued us and they put out flyers with people climbing fences, clearly supposed to indicate that theyre, you know, criminal illegals who are coming over just to get benefits, rite. They thought they won the elections because of that. And so it is a hard push to be able to figure out what kind of leverage do we have on them to be able to say now youre going accept this, right. And i think its a political question at that point. The only thing i would add is this is the numero uno law of immigration in our country over the last 100, 150 years. We love immigrants looking backwards. In the here and now, there is always anxiety, there is always ambivalence, there is always pushback. You know, were in lower manhattan. 100 years ago, there was a near panic about huge numbers of eastern europeans, the irish, the mediterraneans. The fundamental structure of the antiimmigrant impulse had a kind of antisemitic, anticatholic, antiradical and holy trinity. Today, today, we love immigrants looking backwards. We hate them in the here and now. If a ucla dean, if a former nyu professor 150 years ago would have in this university would have told you relax. In 150 years from now, 100 , all, every Single Member of the United States supreme court, the sanctum santorum of american law, every Single Member would be a jew or a catholic, people would have said dean, youre crazy. Today the issue is mobilized around thina