Transcripts For CSPAN3 Politics And Public Policy Today 20240622

Rural areas. Would you let them get the support if they offered broadband as a standalone service. Second, rate of return carriers could get into a similar connect america fund for price gap carriers. And the a cam model isnt perfect but nonetheless if rate of return carriers find it acceptable, they should be given a limited window to be able to do that. Thank you. Chairman wheeler, these are all rural questions for Rural Service so it is really appealing to the constituency, a third of illinois, like a lot of the rural illinoiss. This is on a drop call issue still. I go to my family owned phone companies or the coops i still have out there and i think we talked about it the last couple of hearings that weve been with you, and it it is the intermediate carriers, the least cost reuters seem to be the problem. Can you tell me because you know the Companies Get blamed and it is an intermediate carrier doing it and it creates a whole lot of problems. Thank you, congressman, yes. You put your finger on it and it is the intermediate carrier and it is a failure on the part of the carriers to police their sub carriers if you will. Weve done some things. There used to be a game played where they would give a false ring to pretend the call was being completed when it wasnt. We have a rule in place saying that is out of business. Secondly, is that weve been enforcing this. Welcome ba within the last few weeks we fined verizon 2 million and required them to do 3 million of additional improvements to stop this because in 26 rural areas they werent paying attention to this, which is the heart of the problem. It is this going to what you call the intermediate carriers that they need to be paying attention to. And thirdly, is that we have a data survey out there to try and identify exactly what the except and other causes might be so that we can take additional action if warranted. But, yes, sir, we understand that the call completion is a serious issue and we want to be all over it. That is good, because were going to the august break and i know theyll hear about it, theyre going to come visit me again during the break and im glad i got a chance to ask the question and continue to address this issue. Last question, commissioner pai, when it comes to the ip transition and the ability to upgrade technologies, we talked about that earlier, do all face a regulatory even Playing Field when providing upgrades and providing the Newest Technology . I dont think they do. Some segments face no barrier to deciding to deploy next Generation Infrastructure to connects people with digital opportunities. Another section faces about quaited rules that require them to maintain the networks of yesterday, the copper based tdm networks and every dollar they have to spend maintaining the networks is a dollar they cant spend deploying fiber that would allow them to compete with others and i said if we want to have more broadband competition, lets have a level Playing Field regulatory speaking in which every provider has the strongest incentive to deploy fiber to the home to compete for the customers attention. Great. And ill end on chairman wheeler, thank you for your work on 911 and im glad we talked prior and i look forward to getting together with the Ranking Member there is always work to be done in this field. Would you yield. Yes. For ten seconds. I thank the gentleman and were going to Work Together on that. How does the commission come up with the amount of what a fine is going to be . In one case it is 100 million and you just mentioned 2 million. These are considerable sums. So how do you do you have a set of rules around that or for some kinds of issues such as lifeline there is a schedule. For others, it is again totality of the circumstances kind of a situation where you make a judgment call. And youre the one that makes the call. Yes, maam. Time is expired. Now to the gentleman from vermont, mr. Welch for five minutes. Thank you very much. I thank both of you for joining us today. Chairman wheeler, universal service, really important issue and i know that youve been implementing some reforms and im asking you to tell us what is the status of that and what are you doing to make sure that the fcc that Public Resources are being responsibly used and actually you can both answer that. Thank you, congressman, because commissioner pai and i share the belief that hes been talking about here in so far as the dichotomy between narrow band and broadband and that needs to be fixed. I think i go a little further in my approach than commissioner pai does. I have developed what i have now started calling the walden rule. Oh, please. Because i read the other day that you said, mr. Chairman, quote, that usf should spend money where no one else will spend. And that is a core principal. And as this committee has been telling us so often, you need to review what our rules are. Right. The fact that were spending money for to subsidize the Telephone Company around disney world, just because we always have, doesnt make a lot of sense. The fact that we have no guidelines for operating expenses we just had a man in hawaii go to jail for tax fraud. He is a provider of a recipient of universal rural universal Service Funds and it ended up he was charging his familys education expenses to universal service and the people were having to pay for it. We ought to have some standards for what is what is in op ex and what is in capex. I was just asked the other day to approve a waiver for universal Service Trial to a company that could not produce audited financial statemts. Thats wrong. This isnt my money. This is the peoples money. We need to get it out. That is why commissioner oreilly, commissioner clyburn and i are working together on a bipartisan package of reforms for how were going to deal with making sure that rate of return carriers have what commissioner pai i think has called a twotrack solution and that is that we have a model dealing with the new broadband realities an then a review of what the standars ought to be for the old system. Great. And were moving down that path. And let me hear from kmigs pai. Thank you, chairman. I think you captured the sentiment perfectly when you said it comes to broadband, Rural Service thud be there should be there and be high quality and that is why i provised this plan to make sure when it comes to Rural Americans we dont leave them on a socalled slow lane when it comes to broadband. We give them the exact same opportunity whether they are in montpelier or new york city. And given the time that weve given to, which is by the end of the year, i think it is better to embrace the approach of congressman kramer and others have embraced to to have a target add poach to the stand alone program. I believe with the chairman there are abuses and i stand ready to work to change that, but we cant let the necessary and the perfect be the enemy of the good. Thank you very much. And you know the other thing, lifeline, my view is that it is an Important Program but there is fraud and abuse and one of the things that happens around here is that out of frustration, when there is fraud and abuse, sometimes we attack the very existence of the program rather than reform it. And ai think where and i think where there is bipartisan agreement, anything we can do to limit fraud and abuse we want to do. What is the progress on lifeline . So, thank you, mr. Welch. And it is for both of you. We are going to have a rulemaking on lifeline hopefully before the year is out. It depends on the comments and everything that we receive. And it begins with overhaul. I mean there are two problems with lifeline. One, it was designed wrong and two it was overseen wrong. It was other than that, everything is fine. But it was designed wrong. I mean, so for instance, and i must say, this was put in place by previous administration, which weve inherited, it is ridiculous to have the people who are benefiting from the receipt of the funds be those certifying that the folks that are getting them are the right folks. It is ridiculous that you do not require the people who receive the funds to keep records. And on the administration side, it is ridiculous that you not have a data base for duplicates and that you not put structures in place. So what weve done, since we came in, 25 reduction in expenditures on lifeline. 25 Million People who were inappropriately on it are no longer on it and 100 million in penalties. But so weve done what we can to fix the oversight. What this rulemaking is going to do is continue that and fix the underlying rule problems. Thank you. My time is up but i dont know if you want to let commissioner pai add anything. You might address the eligibility data base. I dont think we got to that, commissioner pai. Obviously i support the chairmans vision of having a more fiscally responsible program but my problem is we didnt adopt the basic reforms, such as capping the budget as every other universal fund has. And we want this to go to connecting people offline to get them online but currently 34 of american households, 40 million households are eligible for the program and if we want to target broadband lets make sure we have fiscal responsibility measures in place and target the help to people who really need it and that is i think an important conversation to have. What about the eligibility data base, where are you on that . Go ahead. The duplication data base, we have in place in operational and it is working quite well. In so far as the eligibility data base, the issue is our ability to get access to data held by state agencies, principally, and were in the process of working our way through that. That is something that we need to get done obviously. Well go now to the gentleman from new jersey, mr. Lance, for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Commissioner pai, i want to speak with you about about the fccs recent order regarding the tcpa. You stated in your dissent that the attempt to modernize it, quote, is likely to leave the american consumer, not to mention american enterprise, worse off. Can you elaborate to the committee how you believe the commission may not have gotten this correct, and what it should have done to protect the american consumer. Thank you, congressman for the question. I begin from the premise that unwanted robo callers are a plague on the american consumer. I dont want to get those calls an the chairman and nobody wants to get them. But my problem with the kpigs orders is it takes us in the opposite direction. It exempted entire industries so now the prison pay phone industry can robo call you. And it expanded the range of devices that are now considered to be auto dialer. So if you use your smartphone to make a telecall that is a auto dialer. And it opened the loopholes for reassigned numbers. There are 37 numbers reassigned every year and legitimate businesses have no reason to know if they have the number in stock and have the prior phone numbers owner and the consent of the owner, they have no reason to know the number was reassigned but nevertheless face liability. And that will generate litigation and there is already a flood. There were 14 filed this year and last year there was Something Like 918. And we are opening up loopholes an not cracking down on the bad actors which are the unwanted robo callers. We didnt create, contrary to what i would prefer, a safe harbor foyer carriers to brock foreign robo callers. We didnt taken forcement measures, despite the complaints last year, in the first seven months of this year, even though i called for it in january, weve had one citation from the Enforcement Bureau against the do not call registry violators and that is unacceptable to me. Why do you think the commission did not have a safe harbor rule . Im not sure why, to be honest with you. But it has created uncertainty among the posted legitimate businesses that have consent and want to communicate information. From restaurants to the Los Angeles Lakers have faced classaction lawsuits for trying to communicate with people who have voluntarily communicated with them. Mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Lance. Several things. First of all, we wanted to make sure let me go down commissioner pais list. Exemptions, we wanted to make sure if there were opportunities if a doctor or hospital needs to do something because of a medical emergency or a bank needs to contact you because of fraud or Something Like that, there should be those kind of exemptions and they are not big loopholes. Secondly on the question of you get to make one mistake and discover that the lance phone has been transferred, you dont have to do this three, four or hundreds of times as some people have. You can say, excuse me, this is not the number. And just provide notification. Thirdly, it was the congress that created the private right of action and that is something that is a decision that is out of our hands. But to your key point about the safe harbor and the carrier solution, specifically we addressed that because the carriers were saying to us, were afraid to offer blocking services because you might charge us with blocking calls, doing just that, which would be a violation of our rules so we amended the rules to say, no, that is not a violation. And we have now had a workshop coming up where were bringing the carriers and other effected parties back in to sit down and say exactly how do you do it. How you handle a voip call is different from a tdm call and how do you put those in place. But this is something where weve said to the carriers, our rules now specifically allow you to block calls where you are requested by consumers. Please do. Thank you. Any sur rebuttal, commissioner pai. Congressman, i would rule out that the supervisor was given newspaper granularity and if a carrier is willing to trust an agency that is proven more than willing to fine a company up to 100 million for rules that dont exist and i would urge them not to rely on a safe harbor. Youre not encouraging folks not to not block calls . Are we together on the fact that, yes, we want them to be blocking calls . On that, we agree, which is why i propose the Agency Create a very detailed specific guide line for how the safe harbor would operate. I dont want to send mixed messages, we cant do it. Thank you. My time has expired and thank you for the rebuttal, and the sur rebuttal and the sur, sur rebuttal. And feel free to call us at home if you want to follow up. I have a prerecorded messages. I do think there are issues the committee will proceed to talk about on this issue as it relates to democracy. Well go now to mr. Lobe sack of iowa for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chair. I really just want to come back to one issue that was already brought up, but and have you elaborate on it mr. Miller but before i ask that specific question, i always like to talk about Rural Broadband, as you might imagine, both of you, and just how important it is for places like iowa. But not just places like iowa, just all over the country. And i know we have bipartisan support to make sure that we have rules in place, to make sure that we have programs in place and incentives in place to expand that Broadband Availability to so many folks around the country. We know it is a Economic Development and health issue. When we talk about the spectrum, for example, an issue for hospitals making sure that i heard from someone this morning about that, making sure they have the broadband available and make sure that they can do what they need to do for their patients. We know it is important for education. I talk about the university of iowa, how they have a program where they offer a. P. Classes but it doesnt do any good in the rural areas if the folks cannot access what the university of iowa offers and we know that farmers, it is very important for farmers to be able to have access to broadband so they can make decisions obviously for planning and businesses in general. And on and on and on. In centerville in iowa, for one of my many meetings if broadband, a small town and there were 27 people at that meeting at 2 00 in the afternoon because it is just so absolutely critical for them to be able to have this broadband coverage. So really my question goes back to what was already mentioned, earlier this year, 115 members, myself included, wrote to you, chairman wheeler, urging reform of the High Cost Program to support small Rural Broadband providers so they could receive support for lines over which customers opted to purchase only broadband rather than traditional Voice Service as it is the current pract i. There was a data only broadband reform to the fcc in 2013 but the fcc has not yet acted on this plan. Are there issues with the reform plan specifically proposed that prevent the fcc from acting on it as proposed and if you could elaborate on that, i would appreciate it. Thank you, congress. There are Something Like 114 different carriers in iowa. You represent the poster child for the rural challenge for rate of return carriers. And it is outrageous that if you live in Rural America you are 30 times more likely not to get broadband if you live in an urban area. So there are two components. One is dealing with things through the price gap carriers and we recently released what will be 10 billion over six years to seven carriers to build their their facilities. And i love seeing the headlines that pop up across the county that we get country that we get in our report that so and so carriers announced they will spend 27 million to bring broadband to this area as a result of our funds. And then we go to the rate of return carriers. The challenge with the rate of return carrier and how we deal with it is the program has been in place for so long and the circumstances have changed over that period. As i say, i agree strongly with commissioner pai that this bifurcation between narrow band and broadband doesnt make any sense. But we have to do better than just slapping that band aid on. We have to say how do we make sure that we can bring this whole program forward. So we sat down with the rural carriers to say how can we do that and to try and reach a consensus. Because there is a couple of rural carrier associations that dont agree with themselves, as you know, how do you do that. An it is encouraging. Everybody has agreed on this twostep twoprong process that i laid out a minute ago. And i am optimistic that commissioner oreilly and commissioner clyburn and myself who are all working together with the rural carriers to come one a package proposal and well be able to get this done and that well be able to live up to the commitment that we made over in the other body to have it done by the end of the year. Thank you mr. Wheeler, thank you, mr. Chair an i yield back. Chair recognized the gentleman from kentucky, mr. Guthrie for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman and thank you for being here. An my first question is for commissioner pai and it is a three part and if you need a repeat, i can do so as well and this all flows together. Why do you oppose putting broadcasters in the duke out and why is it important not to place it in the 600 megahertz band. And ill stop there and ill give you three. Why is preferable to put the broadcast portions in the uplink rather than the down link and suggested the commission hold an en banc hearing related to the 600 megahertz plan and why is that questionable. I wanted to write that down and in the gap, one of the things that Wireless Industries and the advocates agree on is placing them in duplex would be a terrible idea. It would impar download spectrum and broadcasters said it is not optimal because the duplex gap is only available for wireless microphones and if you have a full power broadcaster out there ub licensed devices will get drowned out and that is part of the reason why ive said we need to do what the record suggests and that is moving them somewhere other than the duplex gap. And that raises the question of where do you put them. Between the down link and the up link, there is no questions in terms of the record that there is tremendous opposition to putting them in down link. Everyone carrying a spoen, we are downloads from the internet, it will impair a lot before the selling, making it less appealing and cause tremendous problems in terms of interference between broadcast and wireless issues. Here it is a cautionary tale. Think about the efforts this commission had to deal with because we had brauchders broadcasters on channel 51 and the 700 megahertz band. Those issues took a long time to resolve and it was challenging. Here were talking about cochannel in addition to the adjacent channel and this is the last spectrum auction well have for some time in respect to this band and so they will be there permanently. So this is not a problem we can work around. So i would prefer, based on what ive seen in the record, to place broadcasters if they put have to be put in the wireless band to be put in the up link. It is preferable because they can minimize the amount of minimize the problems it would cause in terms of interference because you could put a base station filter on and it is easier since base stations are smaller in number as opposed to putting a filter on a mobile device which everyone is carrying around and moving. And one of the reasons i think it would be helpful is the commission has not made available enough data in terms of the simulation for the clearing scenarios and the data assumptions and that under lie the simulations an weve heard from everybody, we need more data and we need to give you more meaningful input before you make a decision. And thought lets bring them into a room and have everybody participate and we the commissioners can have a fully informed discussion before we vote on august 6th or whenever it is to make sure it is right. The congress only gave us one chance to get it right and if we dont, the costs would bow substantial. And one more question for commissioner pai as well and hopefully this is the last spectrum auction for a long time. With respect to 600 megahertz. Do you believe there is enough being done to make additional spectrum available for commercial use and if not, what else do you think should be done . Thank you for the question. And consistent with what the chairman and congress has said, we need to make sure there is nor spectrum in the lifeline. I look at broadband as a commissioner and i think it is a great thing but as a commissioner how do we supply this spectrum with all of the devices connected to the internet are going to need and that is why im so bullish about getting more licensed and unlicensed spectrum out there. You think congressional action is needed . It would be helpful. And you have been leaders on that and thank you for that legislation. We only have 27 seconds but the commission on what he was talking about, the more available spectrum, might not be enough time. Yes, sir, and i would like to identify with what you and Congress Woman matsui are doing and i would like to answer your first question too. Im out of town. I yield back. The chair recognized miss clark for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman and i thank the Ranking Member and i of course thank the panelists this afternoon for your updates regarding the agencys activities. I have a few concerns that id like to have you address. And one of them worries me a bit and what is not in your testimony it is how the commission will address continuing challenges in diversity and representation in the media and telecom industries. Were in the 21st century. We look at our nation and its diversity and there is a widespread acknowledgment that what we see in terms of industry is really just not reflective of who we are as a country. So i would like to ask first of all chairman wheeler, where is the commissions focus on the completion of the diversity studies and how can this data be used to create a more nuanced and tailored policies and reforms that advance equity and inclusion and second to that is what metrics and accountability structures are in place to ensure that vulnerable populations in their communities will be adequately served through these proposals. Thank you very much, miss clark. The media report that ive promised to the committee by the middle of next year will include a topic on diversity. It is frankly been an issue that has has caught up previous reports. But i think that there is a couple of things we can take up. There is a substantial increase in the number of broadcast licensees since i became chairman, in large part minority broadcast licenses because in large because of the what we did on the jsa rules. Because those rules were being used to keep opportunity away from minority entrepreneurs. And so im proud of that effort. Secondly, is that, i think we all have to recognize, as a point that mr. Latta was raising previously, an the important of how the Television Business is changing. And the opportunity that is reflected by over the top p providers and there is a difference up here on whether we ought to do what this committee did for direct broadcast satellite for over the top and that is to say you cant hold content back and have various leverage points because i think over the top programming creates incredible new opportunities for minorities. And lastly, weve been talking a lot about the designated entity rules and the wireless auction. And i feel strongly that what this Congress Asked us to do was to be creating opportunities for minorities, women, and rural individuals to participate in wireless. And that is what we did in the d. E. Rules and that the the suggestions that have been made by my colleagues on the republican side actually would have limited the ability for real live des rather than hypothetical des to participate. So on the subject of des and commissioner pai, excuse me, ill have you respond as well, it appears that weve probably cracked the code of only one part of supporting Small Businesses gaining access to capital to enable them to compete in the wireless industry. How can the commission facilitate por secondary market transactions for des and other small bises, especially those owned by women and minorities with the private sector . Were you addressing that to so i think that we need to make sure that again the jsa rule was very helpful in that regard and has performed as expected. You know, we have made it clear that when broadcast licensees come in for transfers and they are complying with the rule which says they cant now have control of multiple licensees in a market well look favorably upon them selling those assets to minority entrepreneurs. And in fact, that has been successf successful. Thank you, chairman. Commissioner, ive run out of time, but hopefully we can get a response from you as well. Thank you. Right now. For the record or for the record. I want to keep moving forward, i think. Mr. Olson from texas, you are recognized for five minutes. I thank the chair and welcome chairman wheeler and commissioner pai. Since ive been on the committee since 2011, Consumer Privacy has been a focus of my work for the people of texas 22. In the 112th and 111th congress that work was done on the commerce manufacturing and trade subcommittee because they had jurisdiction over the fcc. But the fcc has grabbed the opportunity to regulate the broadband isps taking that from the ftc and now it is with the fcc. And now it is under this committees jurisdiction. The good news is you havent lost me. Im still with you. But folks back home want to know why . What is the problem with the ftc that forced this change. And mr. Pai, and mr. Wheeler, one minute. Chairman wheeler, why thank you congressman. As you know, the ftc act as large said it does not have jurisdiction over telecommunications and common carriers. And so when we said that isps were telecommunication carriers is triggered that. What your constituents should know is we work closely with the ftc. In their jurisdiction as far as edge providers and whatever we do, which is forthcoming in the next few months on our privacy proposals, well do our best to harmonize so that there is a common set of concepts that govern privacy. Great. Giving me time back. Mr. Pai. Unfortunate natally the reclassification as common carriers had a two fold hit. First is dep riped because of the common care exemption. The fcc has been given authorization for things like copia. Secondly, because the fcc arrow gated that issue for itself, section 222 of cpi, pretty narrowing piece of the privacy puzzle if you will. So we dont have any rules in place. And moreover, the guidance that weve given out has been completely unhelpful. For example in may of this year our Enforcement Bureau put out, i quote, Enforcement Bureau intended that broadband providers should employ Privacy Protections in line with core tenants of basic Privacy Protections. What does that mean . I have no idea, isps have no idea and consumers have no idea. So i would allow the experts of ftc handle this issue based on the law you have given them. And it is important that the ftc can handle these issues as opposed to the fcc. Expertise and legal authority, yes. And the chairman talked about privacy and edge providers, chairman wheeler, a Consumer Interest Group filed a petition to ask you to start rule making to impose Consumer Privacy protections on edge providers. When are we going to see a response . Do you believe that edge providers should have have a different state of protection than isps. Thank you very much, congressman. First of all, the commission has for decades been enforcing privacy under the cpni rules on telecommunication carriers. So it is not as though we just fell into this patch. There is a long history of Privacy Protection with regard telecommunication carriers. In so far as extending our jurisdiction to the edge providers, i have said repeatedly that that is not our intention. I dont know when the specific response to that specific petition will be coming out. Ill be happy to get you a date. Dont know what the planning process on it is. Commissioner pai, your response. I think this is part of the problem, when the fcc crossed this rubicon in february. If you believe as the imagine ort did at the time that the noipt is a virtualous cycle and edge providers enacted to provide a better Consumer Experience it would seem to follow logically if they are acting in an anticonsumer way why shouldnt the fcc have the jurisdiction to extend the same rules to edge providers. And moreover if you look athe internet conduct standard it is not clear to me why the fcc should limit the focus on Internet Service providers. You could see an edge provider competing in that conduct and that is part of what the fcc opened up and i hope we dont follow that to the logical conclusions. Thank you, i yield back my time. Yields back his time. And i am on to gentleman rush. I want to thank you and the Ranking Member for todays hearing. Chairman and commission pai, i welcome both of you to todays hearing, so good to see you once again. Mr. Chairman, i want to lift up one of the most troubling and egregious manners that is under the consideration of the fcc, and i am referring to the prison phone call rates. I understand that the fcc has poised to make a ruling on instate phone rates for prison phone calls. Best said, mr. Chairman, we must stop this immoral practice of green and unabashed exploitation of the poor, the very ones least able to afford this phone ring robbery. And additionally, mr. Chairman, once and for all, we must do away with the practice of Site Commission kickbacks and we must cap instate phone rings. As you know, mr. Chairman, prison call the prison call industry is a multibillion dollar business. And if there is any doubt, i wanto call your attention to a recent Huffington Post article entitled, quote, prisoners may pillons to call loved ones every year. Now this Company Wants even more. And this article referenced how the Largest Company in the prison phone call rate industry secures and drags to its investors about the 404. 6 million profits on the backs of the very same poor. Mr. Chairman, as you know, ive been fighting this issue for over a decade and it is now time for the fcc to take action and rein in these predatory practices by capping the rate at 0. 05 per minute and eliminating all ancillary fees. But more importantly, mr. Chairman, the fcc must also be a step ahead of the predatory companies. That are right now trying to circumvent the laws by offering video phone calls at the same predatory rates that they offer for phone calls telephone calls. Mr. Chairman, my question is, when will the fcc rule on this legalized telephonic terrorism . Thank you very much, mr. Rush. This is i agree with you, this is a very seriousir serious issue and you and i and people across america owe a debt of gratitude to commissioner clyburn who took this, sitting on the desk of the fcc for ten years since Martha Wright filed her first petition and brought it forward so there was a decision about interstate. But you know what happens is that whacka mole starts getting played. We cant do it here but well do it over there. Well next month we have a hearing about that, what we are doing next month. The point about video phones is another legitimate point. The reality here is that what were talking about is a monopoly that is granted to prisons to determine how people communicate. And like any monopoly, it ends up being exploitive. And the people who are hurt by that exploitation, the very people who rely on it. And i can assure you sir that commissioner clyburn keeps our feet to the fire on this and that im fully supportive of her efforts. I want that is good news, mr. Chairman. And im just im just appo pletic about this well let me move on. My time is up. Time is expired. I should tell you, were going to do a second round of questions so if you are here for that, theyll be more time. And now to the gentleman from florida, mr. Billy ruck is for five minutes. Thank you for showing up and thank you for your testimony chairman wheeler in march we discussed complaint responses and a result Quarterly Report which you thought was a good idea. I know you have provided some information. Have you posted what you provided the committee on the website so that the public can see what is going on and what you are doing . Sure. You have . No, im saying would we . Have you posted nine . I cant answer that specifically sir. Ill get you the answer. Can you get that to us as soon as possible. Yes, sir. Yeah. And if you havent, can you post that online as soon as possible. I think it is a good point, sir. Okay, good. Commissioner pai, there has been a lot of attention and concern regarding the designated entity auction rules. Do you believe are they now correctly balanced and if not, what should be done to fix them. Unfortunatelily, congress, i think they arent and in fact they have moved in the opposite direction. They should benefit Small Businesses. But the agency having loosened some of the restrictions that were imposed on a bipartisan basis several years ago has now opened the door for a Large Corporation to abuse the program and squeeze out the minorities, women and others to provide Facility Based Services and we saw that in the most recent auction where small carriers tried to compete but they werent able to because the deep pocket shell 500 Companies Used Shell Companies to provide them from bidding and i used what were common sense reforms. If you are making in upper 8 figures you dont need a taxpayer refund. If you are a Small Business with less than 15 million of revenue, you dont need more than 50 million of taxpayer funded bidding credits to get spectrum at an auction. You should be able to provide Facility Based Services and not flip to someone else when the vote is over. Afell one short and all of those have restored public faith in the Small Business program. Thank you. Chairman wheeler, in the open internet order, you committed to take steps to prevent increases in poll attachment rates that might result from reclassifying broadband. What steps have you taken since the order to prevent such increases and what additional steps are expected . Thank you, congressman. There is a proceeding underway to do that, that we started in last what was it six or eight weeks or Something Like that. And it is to it is designed to make sure that there is parody between Telecommunication Service and Cable Service attachment fees. Okay. Again, can you continue to update on this. Yes, sir. Appreciate it very much. All right, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Okay. So now well go to, lets see, mr. Johnson is next. For five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman. Chairman wheeler, in a recent response to questions for the record as to whether you think stakeholders who cannot afford to have regulatory lawyers or lobbyists in washington, d. C. Should also have the same access that other stakeholders have, you made a point that the commission does not have funding for routine field hearings and similar activities, yet your emissary miss sewn has been routinely traveling to various eebts. In fact it seems that both you and mrs. Sewn have been wheels up quite frequently in your travels. So let me pose the question this way. Given that you apparently have a robust travel budget, isnt the real issue how you elect to spend the money . Thank you, congressman. I am i think the people who i keep turning down saying no, im not going to talk would probably disagree and my travel is significantly less than other members of the commission. But your point is a well taken point and that is that decisions get made. There is a travel budget that each commissioner has. And that is for his or her discretion. There is not well youve answered questio. It really is up to your discretion on how you spend the money. So could you let us know, for the record, how much the fcc has spent on travel in fy 2013, 14 and 15 so far . By commissioner . Yeah. Yeah. Great. Id like to see that. Commissioner pai, i was listening closely to your discussion with my colleague regarding the designated entity program. And im really struggling a bit with chairman wheelers decision to eliminate the relationship rule and facilities requirement, and the Competitive Bidding rules for a couple of reasons. And you pointed those out. You made a compelling case that this sets the stage for arbitrage. So how are we going to prevent that from happening . What actions does the commission need to take to make sure that these rural small carriers are able to get the credits that the entity designated program was designed to give them, so they can serve the underserved and unreceivered areas . We first need to return to the status quo before the most recent decision. And we need to adopt some commonsense reforms to make sure that Large Corporations dont game the system again. They prohibited Single Corporation from using multiple bidders in the same market. Thats low hanging fruit thats already prohibited by the antitrust laws. The people who need the help, the people who want to serve folks in ohio and kansas need to be able to do that. Some of those reforms, you know, the amount of bidding credits people can get, that Large Companies cant own a dae, that people arent tripping all over the spectrum. I think, you know, i wish the majority i can tell you its a real concern for me. And im sure other colleagues that represent rural areas of the country ive got High School Students that dont have access to broadband Internet Service. And as a result, they either have to go to a Public Library nearby or some other location, maybe to where they can get a wireless signal, or Something Like that. To do their homework, to do research, to do that kind of thing. And this is 2015, for crying out loud. If i could just add, one of the reason the requirement is so important is because in a lot of cases, the larger providers dont see the building case to build out to that school or that area. A smaller rural provider who does want to connect those folks to the internet wirelessly, they have a strong incentive to make sure that those folks are connected. So when those providers are squeezed out because theres no requirement and speculators can come in and take the spectrum and flip it to the big incumbents, that really does impact those consumers. All right. Thank you, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you. Now we go to the gentleman from missouri, mr. Long, for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you all for being here today. Mr. Chairman or chairman wheeler, on july 24th, four days ago, your agency announced that, granted, with conditions of the approval of the transfer of the authorization from directv to at t, we hear much about your agencys 180day shot clock for reviewing such transfers, yet your agencys grant of approval took over twice that amount of time. Over 400 days. Ive got some questions that id like to have answers to. Number one, whats the point of the shot clock . The shot clock is aspiration al to begin with. The difficulty in this particular situation was that we were hung up by a court proceeding, a Court Decision that itself took as long as the shot clock. That specifically dealt with the kind of information that we could have on the public record. And we had to get through that before we could get to the decision. Well, on the 170th day of the 180day shot clock, your agency stopped it for three months. Because of the Court Decision. Thats the same thing youre talking about, the Court Decision . And theres right now pending before commissioner pai have you thats not a setup question. I dont know the answer to it. On the protective order. I just saw it yesterday. So we have put out an order for to outline how you protect confidential information, so that we can be in comply answer with the court, so this will not happen again, and the absence of that is what held up this proceeding. Commissioner pai, same question to you, do you have the same opinion on why the shot clock was stopped at 170th day, or what the benefit of the shot clock is . I have a different view. The agency is why the court didnt out of cold cloth decide to participate in this proceeding. What happened in the context of that transaction, in another transaction, the agency decided to get all kinds of confidential information from programmers, without any kind of due process. The programmers naturally sued. This information wasnt necessary to the resolution of the issues in the transaction. And unanimous d. C. Circuit court of appeals agreed with me calling it tan unexplained and substantial departure from previous policy. They told the fcc, heres the road map you need to follow. Despite having said the information was critical. They didnt seek it or rely on it in making the decision. The shot clock needs to be a rule. Just because theres 24 seconds in the nba, we need to give both the public and the parties a lot of certainty as to how the fcc is going to do it. Ive got another question here for chairman wheeler. Three days prior to your agencys grant of approval for the license and authorization from directv to at t, the department of justice found that after the investigation concluded, that the landbased internet video business, does not pose a significant risk to competition. Although the Justice Department closed its investigation without imposing any conditions on the transaction your agency announced it was opposing a number of conditions to address potential harms presented by the combination of at t and directv. Despite the Justice Departments view that the combination of the two video bids did not pose a serious lisk to complication. What significant risk to complication did your agency identify that the Justice Department apparently missed . We worked closely with the Justice Department on this. And i dont think that there was a sliver of right between us. How can you say that . Because we have a different test. You have a what . We have a different test. They have an antitrust test that we face. We have a Public Interest test that were supposed to measure by. So we actually have two different standards that we measure to. And what was happening here was that in about 25 of the area of at t service area, directv was a competitor to at t for video service. So eliminating that competition, the question became, does that create an incentive then to eliminate broadband competition as well. So what we required is that at t expand its broadband coverage, which increased competition for broadband by a significant amount, and created an opportunity for those video providers not to have to go through a decreasing choke point. Weve got a red light on our backboard. My fiveminute shot clock is expired. So ill be back for round two. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from new york, mr. Collins. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Wheeler, the big issue that ive been involved in with pilot radio, as you may know, pretty much every new york member of congress as well as new jersey sent you a letter. Yes, sir. While the issue may not be a terrible issue, you know, some parts of the country, it truly is in new york city, as evidenced by not often you can get 27 members of new york to agree, upstate, downstate, like two different worlds. To sum it up, were extraordinarily disappointed that the fcc has clearly said its not a priority. I mean, we got the letter just from you yesterday. And i understand budget concerns. And i guess the point i want to emphasize is, this is an issue, even though its not to you, and you are the chairman. We really dont appreciate you saying, as you put in here, the time and expense of pursuing these cases present particular difficulties in the current budget environment where the commissions staffing is at the lowest point in 30 years. Accordingly we must prioritize our work based on existing resources and harm to the public. Matters posing an imminent threat to Public Safety are harming large numbers of consumers must take precedence over other matters, such as pirate radio. I understand what youre saying. But, you know, what is the size of your budget . Congressman, i that letter, those particular words, which i wrote, were not designed to say that this is a low priority, but designed to say that the first issue is Public Safety. Pirate radio has to exist inside that. And i believe that we have been very aggressive. So during my chairmanship, weve had 200 private radio enforcements. The last year weve had 100 alone. How many in new york . I dont know the exact number, but i would say 90 maybe not 90 , 80 of those. So what weve done and commissioner oreilly, when he was meeting with the new york broadcasters, really focused on that. And he helped us focus on that. So we formed an inner Agency Working group, task force, to work with the nab, and the new york broadcasters, on this issue so you had that meeting. The fourth point on that came out was that basically you need more folks in your local enforcement office. I think that point number four, that hearing was additional fcc enforcement options. Right. That was one of the things that but in another hearing weve talked about how youve been reducing the local field offices, and pulling those folks back to headquarters. And some of us would presume thats to be ready to enforce title 2, which we can disagree on. Words are words, actions are actions. The actions have not convinced me, and i think other members, that it is at all a priority. Your letter, while it said maybe some day if weve got nothing else to do, well see what we might want to find in pirate radio, its a low priority. If thats how you interpret it, i apologize, because thats not what was meant. The new york office, the boston office, the miami office, which is where pirate radio tends to exist, those thee areas, this is a wackamole. This is a wackamole thats what pirate radio is, absolutely. So one of the things that i think i encouraged in that letter is that congress could also be helpful. Because we cant we can go and shut somebody down, and he or she moves to this spot, and were constantly chase them. If congress could also enact, make it illegal to aid and abet the carrying out of this, and i think thats also what the n. A. B. Group has recommended, if we can get at those who are aiding and abetting, because theres a kabol that moves this over. You move it over here, and you move it to this space over here. And you go, i dont know anything about this. So there is a totality of the package here. 200 enforcements. We have a Task Force Working on it. The we could use some Additional Authority so we could have some teeth. Im about out of time. So two things. One is, maybe this is a rhetorical question, but ill ask it. Theres been suggestions that the fcc has actually directed field offices to step down and back away from enforcement. Any truth in that . I have heard that suggestion. Strong enough to put it out here. Ive seen that suggestion but did not see that command. It did not come from me. Might you provide the language that you might suggest . Can you bring me the language that we might put into some other legislation that would assist you on the pirate radio . Yes, sir. It is an important issue for us in new york, and we dont want to be a last thing on a friday afternoon, and somebody says, i have one minute before i go home a. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and for you for suffering along with me. And thank you, commissioner pai, for referencing the letter that 114 of me and my closest friends sent to you. And thank you for addressing it so thoroughly today. I might hone in on some of the finer points regarding the time line. In the letter i received, mr. Chairman, from you yesterday, you often referred to a lack of consensus. There seems to be some consensus. You pledged pi the end of the year, well resolve this. As you both know, of course our community presented the plan in 2013. Modified over the last couple of years to meet moving targets. Let me ask you, commissioner pai, youve offered up, i think your quote, simple amendments to existing rules. One thing ive noticed around here, and ive noticed in regulatory bodies, we tend to complicate simple things. My goal is usually the opposite of that. Are there issues in the plan that prevent this from Going Forward, prevent us from utilizing that as the model . Or are there other issues that have caused this to take so long that you know of . Thank you for the question, congressman, and also for your kind words about my proposal. I think stepping it back 60,000 feet, i think the problem is basically this. There are a number of problems with the high cost fund. The problem is the standalone service. Lets adopt targeted changes to our rules to make sure that rate of return carriers arent penalized for being standalone services. For the purposes of this issue, standalone Broadband Service, lets get that piece of it done and then turn to the other issues. The rate of return carriers and consensus, i appreciate the efforts of my colleagues to find that consensus. But its not necessary to adopt a standalone broadband decision, im i fear we wont meet the deadline we set for ourselves by getting this done by the end of the year. Can we meet the end of the year deadline . Is there a reason we cant meet that . Are we attaching too many other things to the simple splugs . Those are the two right questions. Im trying to do that. It is my goal to do it. I expect to do it. A couple of points here. In order to do that, you cannot be whetted to consensus. As you know from your previous term, at some point in time you have to pull up and shoot. Boy, am i trying to get consensus. But if you cant get everybody to agree at some point in time youve got to put an end to it. We will put forward a proposal on that in a timely basis by the end of the year. Because at the root of this, is that weve got to do better for rural consumers. Period. And its not just one simple fix. It is a broader set of fixes. Because i am in violent agreement on the narrow band broadband issue. But its not enough. We also have a responsibility to those people who are paying for this every month in their phone bills, to make sure that the money is spent responsibly. And i hope we have consensus. Im working for consensus. But if we cant have consensus, we need to have progress. There are other issues that the fcc has taken out this year that i wish there had been more consensus on. I dont want consensus at 100 , as you might imagine. We spent some time talking about, of course, the i was about to call it the voluntary auction. The word voluntary is how its often referred to. Because, of course, it is in fact voluntary, both opting in and opting out. The billions of dollars the federal government put in for the repacking fund is probably not going to be enough, were looking at maybe 1,100 tv stations that will have to involuntarily move. Theres a plan to deal with that shortfall that i can assure my rural north dakota broadcasters that they wont have to bear all the costs . Maybe commissioner pai first, and the chairman the remaining time . I suggested we should treat the 1. 7 billion relocation budget to structure it in a way to minimize the possibility we would exceed it. The other issue i heard from nebraska is for 36 months is not necessarily as long as it might seem. Theres a shortage of people who are able to do the work. A shortage of the equipment necessary for the repacking to be done. And the commission should be mindful of that as well as it progresses. I share your concern. I want to make sure broadcasters to the extent possible are not theyre held harmless in terms of the necessary expenditures. We need to make sure we live within a budget. And we want to manage things within a budget. You gave us that number. We cant change that number. And weve got to come up with a program that will make it work. Thank you both. Thank you, mr. Chairman. If you hang around, mr. Kramer, were going to do a second round. You could be really quick on the shot clock here. Well go to the gentleman from new mexico for five. Thank you for having us here today. Chairman wheeler, commissioner pai, thank you for joining us as well. I appreciate the testimony around the rural access. Im a rural guy. I think congressman walden represents a very rural district. Many parts of the country need Broadband Access and affordability. Chairman wheeler, youve heard me say, we can have connectivity at 30,000 feet flying across the United States in an aeirplane, theres no reason we shouldnt have it in rural areas. In new mexico, for example, 77 of those living in Rural Communities and 89 living in tribal communities lack access to broadband. You pursued an aggressive agenda that includes reforming the Erate Programming, and establishing the connect america fund. Can you discuss what this agenda means for people who lack sufficient access to broadband and Communication Services . Not just with buildout, but making it more affordable for people to take advantage. Thank you, congressman. I hope we can do significantly better than the speeds in the air. And thats what were doing. I have been in new mexico multiple times, in tribal areas, and other very remote areas in mexico to personally visit and talk to the individuals involved. I remember a situation that there was a fiber going down this side of the road, a fiber on the indian reservation, over here about 100 yards away was a high school. And up here was the library. And they couldnt get a connection from the fiber to the high school, because it was cost prohibitive, and the Erate Program wasnt paying for that. Now we pay for that. And thats in large part because of these kinds of specific examples that weve seen. We need to make sure this is the case. We also need to make sure that lowincome individuals who are unfortunately disproportionately represented in tribal areas have access to broadband support to connect them. And that is why we are not only overhauling, but changing the orientation of the Lifeline Program to go to broadband. Chairman wheeler, in all these areas, ill submit some other questions into the record to flesh these areas out. As we do this, i really appreciate the conversation that weve had today, and the focus. And seeing how we can grow the rural family as well and see how we can get more attention there. The other place i want to compliment both you and commissioner pai and get your perspective is modernizing the fcc. Youve embarked on expanding Electronic Filing and execution, increasing responsiveness to consumers. Can you both tell me what youre doing to provide greater information to consumers, improving excuse me, for transparency and accountability, digitizing the process . Boy, am i glad you asked that question. And you both support that effort . Yes. Dr. Pai . Yes. On my first trip to our consumer operation in gettysburg, i saw in the xocorn a humongous machine that the staff proudly announced to me could take 17 different forms and put them into one envelope. And i said, well, why are we sending out 17 different forms . And they said, because thats the way we do it. So you contact the fcc on a robocall issue, and well send you the form for robocall, as well as the form for loudness on commercials, as well as the form for every other kind of complaint weve had. I said, wait a minute the forms are required to be sent back . And i would talk to consumers who would say, what am i supposed to do with this . Which form am i weve actually updated it, put it on the web. We just won a prize for being one of the best consumer interface sites on the web. And were taking that information and putting it back into what should we be doing to help us focus on our priorities. Mr. Chairman, if there are other areas we can work on in this space, i look forward to having those conversations. If im able to, because of the length of the line before the second round indeed. Were going to start now. Thank you. I want to go back to this issue of translators, and maybe commissioner pai, chairman wheeler, theres all this talk now in the commission about setting aside an entire channel for unlicensed. I support unlicensed. Theres more to be done, but wont setting aside a whole channel for unlicensed contribute to the problem that were hearing from translaters, and lb tv community . Mr. Chairman, it will by definition, to the extent that the channel is allocated solely for unlicensed. In the tv band it means the lv tv station cant occupy it. Probably not. What were talking about here are using tvwide spaces and treating these kind of additional applications for unlicensed. In those areas where the duplex gap is not sufficient, and thats going to be a handful of areas that i doubt will be any areas that are the typical lb tv kind of rural area. So will you commit to lb tv and translators having priority then over unlicensed . No. Were going to it was really clear in the tv band . I think the mandate from this committee is clear. The mandate from this committee is that there is no priority given to lb tv. The Committee Also said we need to be encouraging unlicensed. I dont think that it comes down to that kind of a solution, though, mr. Chairman, with all due respect. I think that it is possible what we are just breaking our tails on is to be able to accomplish both of these. And i think well be successful. I would say, my recollection of the statute, which we together helped write here was you wrote it. That unlicensed was never set aside to create a nationwide band. We had a lot of discussion about that very fact, that you dont go clear all this, and then give it away to, in effect, some pretty major operators. Commissioner pai . This is part of the reason why i suggested we adopt a technically sound solution about where to put broadcasters. If we put them in the uplink, we avoid this issue all together. This is a really good point that commissioner pai has raised. There is serious concern on that. Lets remember what were talking about here is how do we minimize the aggregate impact across the country . And that means that in a handful of markets, it is a percentage in the Single Digits that theres an issue. He is proposing that you put it in the uplink. Put the interference in the uplink. What that does is knock out an entire base station. Right. The impact is much broader. I think youve got disagreement with commissioner pai. My concern is, there are a lot of i hear from my colleagues all over the west. Theyre worried these translators are going to go dark because they get squished out. And if they get squished out, that only adds to the problem. There is a Public Interest obligation underpinning all of this at the commission to provide for. I realize they dont have all the rights and that. I was a licenser of translators myself. I knew we could be pushed out. But through this, youve got some flexibility here to manage. I want to switch gears quickly. This issue of auto dialer has come up. And in your order, you adopted a pretty broad definition of an auto dialer. You said there are outer limits of the capacity of the equipment, to modify it to satisfy the definition. Is my iphone an auto dialer . No, sir. There are apps that have automated calling and boxleen that would turn my phone into an auto dialer. The issue we were trying to deal with in this order was not the hardware, but the impact. Because the since congress acted in 1991, the technology has changed. And what congresss instructions to us were, no contact from auto dialers with without permission. But my question to you is though, if i push somebodys name, i dont ever dial your number. I just push chairman wheeler, and it dials. To me is that an auto dialer . No, sir. If i have a database of names that i want to reach out to, lets say voters, and i want to turn them out to vote and i have a device that calls until somebody answers, then i can take the caller, is that an auto dialer . Yes, sir. If i have a telephone hall in my office, which i do, and theres a company that calls all those thousands of people in my district, are they now prohibited from doing this . Unless the consumer has asked to get this. The congress was the statute is very explicit. So teletown halls now by members of congress and most members do that, all im doing is im asking a question. No, sir. Those are prohibited . Your contention is it always has been . Yes, sir. Wow, thats interesting. That will be news to a lot of people. Commissioner pai . Mr. Chairman, i think part of the reason why its dispitable that if you look at the statute, i explicitly said capacity means the actual capacity. The smartphone has initself intrinsically the ability to do that. They rejected my argument and said, no, you can download an app. There are things you can do to make a smartphone an auto dialer. Thats why literally every Communications Device other than a rotary phone, nonetheless its an auto dialer. Thats not good for consumers. Thats not good for providers. Or anybody. Other than theres this issue with the health care exchanges, and whether or not Insurance Companies can follow up, and notify you that its time for you to come in and have some tests done. Im told that may be prohibited now. Are you hearing those . Thats the first i heard of it. But it doesnt surprise me. But theres uncertainty about what the rules of the road or. We understand what we were doing, mr. Chairman, was responding to a series of petitions. We did not issue a rule. People petitioned us and said, what is the rule . Yes, how you interpret it. If somebody wants to petition us on the kinds of things you talked about, we can deal with that. With the Health Care Issue one, we specifically had an exemption for being able to bank fraud, health care, and like this . Changing technology, 40 of americans no longer have a land line. You basically said pollsters could go the way of black smiths, i guess. Well, they have been, right. I guess my point is, that industry in effect in terms of trying to do a random sample is now put out i how do you a random sample on a poll if you cant randomly sample and dial . I sat down with peter hart to write a piece on exactly that as far as wireless. You cant have you cant get to the Wireless Network if you dont know what they are. That went by the board. The issue here is if you come to us and say the stat tut says which it does. The only folks who are allowed to be called are those who want to be called. Got it. Im supposed to be a strict constructionalist. The court would disagree with your determination of statutes and other issues. Im trying to figure out the impact of your ruling. Ive gone way beyond my time. Ill defer to my colleague from california. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Its an important discussion. And i think that we need to talk about this some more. Because its what wernt into the statute was like holding a mirror up to the country at that time. In 91, right . In 91. Thats a long time ago. Thats many, many moons ago when you think of generations of how many generations of Technology Changes have taken place. So whether someone wants to be a strict constructionist, or whatever, i think that we have to have the elasticity to stay up with the times. I mean, each one of us represents 750,000 people. Now, maybe weve got to reach out to every single one of them if we possibly can. But in my view, meeting with people relative to a telephone town hall meeting has been overwhelmingly embraced. Not just accepted, but embraced by my constituents. Plus it saves tons of money and they get to ask whatever they want. So these are you know, i dont think they would be satisfied, well, this is what the statute says. I think theyd say, change whatever you have to change, but keep up with the changes that are taking place. So its important. Since were going into a second round, and maybe the chairman and myself two others . Oh, good. Billy and ben. I want to talk about your budget. The house appropriators have really screwed the fcc, in plain english, in my view. And i dont think its funny. I think its serious. We have members asking questions today about travel budgets. I think that whatever you do, and however you do it, it would be interesting to see if it tracks along with how members of congress are allowed to handle their mra. I dont know, but it may be something for us to discuss. Now, the fy appropriations bill has 315 million in it. That reflects a cut of 25 million below the fy 15 enacted level. And 73 million below the request. Now, they also have placed in riders that relative to Net Neutrality and all of that. Now, what id like to ask you, mr. Chairman, is, have you had conversations with the appropriators . Is there anyone from the majority here thats been asked to lean in with the appropriators . Were constantly putting on the fcc, and in oversight, all of these issues come up. I dont know whos going to do this work and follow up with every members request about what they want. You wanted to close offices, members said dont close them, we need them open. I mean, there are so many things that are reliant on dollars. And im not talking about having a load of extra dough. Im talking about the agency being able to carry out its responsibilities. So what id like to know from you is, have you had conversations with the appropriators on the majority side . Have you had conversations with the majority side here to see what could be worked out with the budget . I dont know, you know, these riders the president is not going to sign Something Like that. And at the end of the day, i think that the appropriations process is so messed up around here, because we dont have regular order, speaking of transparency and process and all of that, that were going to end up with an omnibus bill. And i think thats whats going to happen. Compare, contrast what your print budget is, because an omnibus doesnt really allow for that much more. And, address for us any conversations, or how youre following up with what the appropriators did to the budget of your agency. Thank you, congresswoman. Weve had conversations with everybody who will listen, and some who wont. And i mean that only in a flippant remark. Im not saying people arent listening. Weve talked to this committee. The chairman came to the appropriations committee, which i think was the first time that ive ever known a chairman has the second time. I was there last year. I missed you then. I was right behind you. Okay. So that hes got a record for beating me twice. Thats not the point. I want to know about the money. Yes, we have to live with the number that the Congress Gives us. Its that simple. Have you in response to what the appropriators have done and i dont know, mr. Chairman, were you there to support the appropriators in cutting the budget . Or against it . I was there to listen to the appropriators. I see. You didnt testify . No. I was there to hear what they had to say. I see. Have you come up with you know what id like to ask you to do . Two things. What your what you will be able to do with a budget that is reduced by 25 million. Yes, maam. And also and the top line things that you have to do. I mean, weve got to move forward with the auction, with the voluntary auction. And all the top line items. And also if we have an omnibus bill, what that does. And i look forward to reviewing that. I think it should be sent to everyone on the committee. I would really like to see that. Because were walking into something that i think the members of this subcommittee that have oversight responsibility are going to have to understand that we either have to curb our appetite for giving the fcc assignments that if they dont have the dollars to carry them out, then they dont have the dollars to carry them out. Somethings going to go. Somethings going to go. I will tell you an interesting thing. Were currently at the lowest number of fulltime employees in modern history for the agency. Thank you. Thank the gentle lady. Now go to the gentleman from missouri, mr. Long. I feel impressed that i got to follow the chairman for the first time. You hang around long enough i was like sally field, they really do like me. And i looked around and no one else was here. Commissioner pai, ive got a question for you. Its been reported cha the chief of the Enforcement Bureau acknowledged that many of the cases fall into legal gray area, where Companies Might not even realize theyre doing anything wrong. I know youve raised concerns about this. Can you kind of explain your concerns . And what can be done to address them . Thanks for the question, congressman. Unfortunately, many of the fccs more highprofile initiatives have betrayed that basic principle of due process. Thats not an fcc law, thats going back to king john signing the magna carta. I think why ive been so outspoken about it, if private actors from companies, all the way to individuals, dont know what the rules of conduct are, then they have no reason to know that their conduct is violating what the fcc thinks should be the rule. And with respect to certain notices of apparent liability the agency has issued, its more a quest for headlines first and well figure out the law later, if at all. We should look at the facts, look at what the law is. If theres a gap in the law, lets change it so people are abiding by what we think is proper conduct. But we cant sanction people for rules that they dont know exists. Chairman wheeler, and commissioner pai, to the two of you, im curious about broadcasters Relocation Fund and how those moneys are going to be spent. Its currently 1. 75 billion, as you know. Obviously that fund was set up to pay for the relocation costs of the broadcasters required by the if, cc to move to a new channel as part of the auction. After examining these issues for the last few years, has the fcc determined how many stations is able it is able to repack with that 1. 75 million fund . It is a thank you, congressman. It is a moving target depending on the characteristics of who participated in the auction. Do you have to move an antenna . Do you have to build a taller antenna . How far do you have to move it . Can you give me a ballpark . I can get back to you with one, sir. I dont have one off the top of my head. What weve tried to do is develop a set of rules that can live inside of that. So let me get you what number we use for a denominator in that. I appreciate it. Commissioner pai, same question to you. I heard it will cost somewhere north of 3 billion. If that figure is correct, we only have 1. 7 billion in the Relocation Fund, then it necessarily follows the broadcasters will be out of pocket for the extra. I want to make sure that doesnt happen. Do you have any estimate on the number that the 1. 75 billion, how many that would cover . No. Unfortunately, i dont. As the chairman pointed out, quite eloquently, there are a lot of moving parts to this. Every broadcaster is unique. Okay. Because ive heard some figures. And i have difficulty believing that 1. 75 billion will cover the estimated number that theyre talking about. If both of you could get back to me on that, i would appreciate it. And im going to yield back with 1 37 to go. The chair recognizes the gentleman from new mexico. Thank you, chairman walden. I would like to associate myself with the questions of both Ranking Member eshoo and chairman walden. Chairman wheeler, as we talked about the telephone town halls, when i travel in new mexico, especially in Rural Communities, one of the things that i hear from members, the community that i represent, they have to sometimes travel three or four hours to get to town centers. Not even city centers. Its how much they appreciate being able to weigh in. If the rule requires them to opt into this program, how would we reach out to 700,000, 800,000 constituents for them to opt in . We cant send them an email, because based on a 2015 press release coming from the fcc, only 52 or 48 of those making less than 25,000 have Broadband Service at home. So if we cant reach out to them to opt in, do i send them a letter . You dont want to be sending letters and forms out to opt in, and you have to check a box yes or no, and you get the letter back in. I certainly hope that we can look at this to see how we can address this. And i know its something that i visited with chairman walden, and with Ranking Member eshoo with both minority and majority staffs. With that being said, some additional questions about broadband penetration. Theres been a little bit of conversation today about broadband. Chairman pai, do you see broadband penetration, or accessibility in rural parts of the country of broughtband to be a necessity or a luxury . In response to congresswoman eshoo earlier, my goal has been to make sure that any american anywhere, whether its a tribe in new mexico, or somewhere in my home state of kansas, anyone who wants Digital Opportunity in terms of a broadband connection should be able to get it. Thats why ive laid out proposals on Rural Broadband, to make sure we have a bunch of competitors out there to provide every american with that opportunity. And as far as the semantic classification of it, ill leave that to wiser minds than myself. The se man takes associated with the difference between necessity and luxury, how would you characterize the importance of accessibility to broadband in the rural parts of the country . I think its absolutely critical. What i love about this job is getting a chance to travel to small towns to be able to see how people have used broadband to get opportunities they otherwise wouldnt have. Im sure this is a case in your district. Ive seen in a lot of rural districts, if people dont get that highpied connection, theyll move to another state or bigger city to get it. Thats unfortunate. Because i think there are a lot of ideas in Rural America that are probably withering on the vine for lack of the broadband connection. Thats something im passionate about. I would characterize it as a necessity, not a luxury. I really appreciate you characterizing it as absolutely critical. I would agree with that assessment as well. With that, commissioner pai, as we look to the Lifeline Program as well, and in the testimony that or your dissent to the 2015 order, in it there were some concerns associated with the costs to the program to date. And in your dissent, you did recognize that there have been some reforms that weve looked back to 2012. Understanding them in 2005, and 2008, it went from rotary land line phones to being able to go into mobile phones and now into Smartphone App pratt us. There was a reduction of 214 million in savings in 2012, with the substantial projection of 2014. Im still trying to get the numbers on the reallife savings as well. In your dissent you also listed a concern where there were providers that were signing people up fraudulently. Which we need to crack down on. And we share that concern. But in the 2015 order in which you dissented, the fcc would remove the ability for providers to sign people up for verification. Is that something that is that something that you agree with . Are there other areas you disagreed with in the order . Is that something that we could work on together . I would love to work with you on that. I do think verification is a critical issue. I think one of the problems is the case that fly by night operators, they just created socalled life line clients. The ceo pocketed 20,000 and spent it on his own private business. We need to have that conversation. I appreciate the reform that the commission put in place. The last question i have is, is 1. 6 billion the right cap . You and i share a concern with Broadband Availability in communities. But i would hope that we both would agree that its not just accessibility from an infrastructure perspective to broadband, its also an affordability question in many rural parts of the country. Whats the right number for a cap . And should it be arbitrary . Should it be based on data . I think it should be fact based. Thats part of the reason i suggested a cap of 1. 6 billion. It was at 800 million in 2009. Its now at 1. 6. Its the only one of the universal programs that isnt capped. We need to make sure that we target the people who are offline in the Lifeline Program. And make sure were responsible stewards of the consumer tax dollars. 1. 6 seemed to be a good starting point. But the only data associated is the number that year to year that number changes. Understanding that inflation from 2008 to 2012 was because the reforms were necessarily in place that helped us back that number one and the recent actions by the fcc in 2015. This is an area we can look on as well, but i look forward to having more conversations in this space as well. Thank you. We appreciate your participation. Speaking of outdated data, just in closing, the quadrennial review, the last one weve got is eight years old. I hope the commission will deal with a report on a basis required by statute. Modernization is high on a number of our priorities. On the destack issue, we asked in stellar that the Commission Deal with the downloadable security issues. It appears that committee was given direction to work on disaggregation of video stream. So again, were after the downloadable security issue. I have one letter to put in the record from care payment. Without objection. And i think you heard mr. Chairman bipartisan concerns here on tcpa. It appears the law that was created back in 91 when you got charged for incoming phone calls, nobodys talking about robocalls for cell phones. None of us want that. But i think theres an issue here we need to take a look at that law. With that, thank you for your diligence and your patience. And with that, the subcommittee stands adjourned. Michael brown was shot by a Police Officer one year ago this sunday, sparking riots in ferguson, missouri. Tonight at 8 00 eastern time, a Panel Discussion on urban riots. From ferguson, to baltimore, maryland. And looking back at the watts riots in l. A. And turn of the century race riots. Public square organized the panel, it includes remarks by authors and history professors, robin kelly and max herman. Heres a look. One of the Big Questions thats behind the full panel is, do these urban riots, rebellions, do they cause change to make a difference . And i was just reminded of two things. When Michael Brown was killed, it wasnt his death that actually pushed gaza off the 24hour news cycle, it was the rebellion that took place afterwards. Thats what got cnn to cover it. In the case of baltimore, people have been being beat by police consistently. But it wasnt until people kind of came out in the streets, you know, in ways that would be considered urban rebellions, or riots that attention was paid to freddie gray. And same thing with cincinnati. Those riots that erupted in 2001, after Timothy Thomas killer was let off led to significant changes. Even though shortterm changes, but changes in policing, in kind of a community agreement. You can watch that program on race riots tonight beginning at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on our companion network cspan. This weekend on the cspan networks, politics, books, and American History. Saturday night at 8 00 eastern on cspan, congressional profiles with four freshmen members, pennsylvania democrat brendan boyle, michigan democrat brenda lawrence, and sunday night at 9 00, with elections coming in october, well show you a debate among the four National Party leaders in canada. On cspan2, saturday night at 10 00 eastern, on book tvs afterwards. Through the use of technology, we can rein in the power of the federal government. Sunday evening at 7 00, susan souther talks about the city and people of nagasaki, japan, from the morning it was bombed on august 9th, 1945, to today. This weekend, on American History tv on cspan3, we commemorate the 70th anniversary of the bombings of hiroshima, and nagasaki, japan, and the end of the war in the pacific. Our programming starts saturday morning at 10 00 with a conversation with Clifton Truman daniel. And later, well visit the American Museum atomic bomb exhibit with the universitys director of nuclear studies, peter kuzner. And sunday morning at 10 00, our coverage continues with the 2000 documentary of the making of the atomic bomb. And later, interviews with two bomb survivors. Get our complete schedule at cspan. Org. Sunday night on q a, former emergency manager of detroit kevin orr talks about detroits Financial Issues and his job overseeing the largest municipal bankruptcy in u. S. History. If detroit had taken the 1. 5 billion it borrowed in 2005, 2006, when the stock market went down to 6700, and invested in an index fund, Dow Jones Industrial average index, whatever, the stock market is now trading at 18,000, almost three times what it was. They not only would have tripled their money, they could have paid the pensions in full and got back in the business of declared what was called the 13th check. At the end of the year, in addition to the 12 they were due. It could have fixed itself if there had been some sort of management Going Forward like any organization in the United States as well. If you have some strong leadership, and some focused leadership, you can resolve these problems. But it takes a lot of effort. Sunday night on cspans q a. President obama spoke to Young African leaders as part of the Mandela Washington Fellowship Program. It was established in 2014 to train Young African leaders in. [ applause ] thank you. Hello, everybody. [ applause ] happy birthday to you happy birthday to you happy birthday to you thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Well. This is a good crowd here. First of all, can everybody please give grace another big round of applause . [ applause ] you know, not only does she do incredibly inspiring work in nigeria, but i have to say following grace is a little bit like following michelle. You know, shes so good that you kind of feel bad when youre walking out. Because youre thinking im not going to be that good. But shes just one example of the incredible talent thats in this room. And to all offia, i know that youve been here in the United States for a few weeks. Let me say on behalf of the american people. Welcome to the United States. Were glad to have you here. [ applause ] and your visit comes at a perfect time. Because yes, its soon my birthday. Thats a very important thing. But thats not the main reason its a perfect time. The main reason is because, as many of you know, i just returned from africa. And it was my fourth trip to subsaharan africa, more than any u. S. President. I was proud to be the first u. S. President to visit kenya. [ applause ] the first to visit eethiopia, te first to address the african union, which was a great honor. And the reason i have devoted so much energy to our work with the continent is as i said last week, even as africa continues to confront many challenges, africa is on the move. Its one of the fastest grows regions in the world. Africas middle class is projected to grow to more than one billion consumers with hundreds of thousands of mobile phons africans are beginning to leap frog into prosperity. The continent has made gains in health, for making childbirth safer for women and babies. Millions have been lifted from extreme poverty. This is extraordinary progress. Young people, like you, are driving so much of this progress. Africa is the youngest continent. I saw the power of youth on my trip. In kenya. Richard helped build yes, youth camp one of the countrys most Prominent Civil Society groups with over one million members. At the entrepreneur ship summit in nigeria, they learn to fight and provide more opportunities for muslim youth. I met a woman who heads a nonprofit for young women in nairobi. They ratrain and place women in tech jobs. I saw the talent across the continent. As president i want to make sure that were helping to empower Young Africans like all of you. Thats why i launched Young African leaders initiative. To help you access the resources [ applause ] to help you access the resources and training and networks you need to become the next generation of leaders in all areas in Civil Society and business and government. And the response has been overwhelming. So far, more than 140,000 young people across africa have joined our network. Young africans with new ideas can connect with each other and collaborate and Work Together to put their plans into action. I want to welcome all of the Network Members across africa who are watching this town hall today. Im proud of all of you. Im proud that weve made so much progress together after just a few years. [ applause ] and last year, i said wed launch a new set of tools for our network. So today weve got more than 30 online lessons available on everything from public speaking to how to write a business plan. Mentoring, new ways to Network Across africa, around the world. New training sessions. Meetings with experts on how to launch a startup. And were launching three new online mandela fellow washington Fellowship Institute courses. So that all members of the network can access some of the great ideas that youve been sharing. Last year, i said we would create Regional Leadership Centers across africa to provide skills, networks and opportunities to more african leaders. In kenya i had a chance to visit the center in nairobi e. We opened a new center in akra. Two more will be opened by the end of the year. [ applause ] last year i said we would do more to support young entrepreneurs with business, and with new training of aspiring entrepreneur in small towns. With the recent entrepreneurship summit in nairobi we secured a Million Dollars from bank and fl philanthropists to support women and young people around the world. [ applause ] and last year, i welcomed our first class of mandela fellows. This year the response was overwhelming again, nearly 30,000 applied. And today im honored to welcome you the second Mandela Washington fellows class. Were on track to double the Mandela Washington Fellowship Program to 1,000 fellows by next year. [ applause ] i know youve been busy. Over the past few weeks at schools and businesses all across america youve been taking courses, developing the skills youll need to make your ideas a reality. So that youre able to continue the great work that youre already doing but take it to the next level. Thats what brian of zambia plans to do. Where is brian . There he is right there. [ applause ] so brian uses music to advocate against things like gender based violence and educate youth on hiv aids. So while in the u. S. Hes learned about our healthcare system. Met the founder of an hiv aids, and plans to develop a record label about social change. Were proud to be your partner. Or weve got kadiza, there she is. So she helped lead unicefs Media Campaign to stop the spread of ebola. With the management skills she gained at Wagoner College she wants to work on improving the lives of women and girls back home in guinea. Were proud of her. Or weve got jamilla of uganda. Are you posing . Shes posing. She is not a fashion model. She started a door to door Laundry Company to employ more youth and hopes to take what she learned at Dartmouth University to meet her goal of getting 1,000 young people to own or run their own business. Thats a sampling of the incredible projects thats being done by fellows all across africa. This program will help all of you make a real difference back home. But fatu from senegal, where is fa . Fatu wrote me a letter and she said if the real value is for young people to learn from others, maybe we should start sending Young Americans to africa, also. [ applause ] and she made the point, not just to help poor communities as they usual do, but to learn from other societies with humility. Which i thought is