Transcripts For CSPAN2 Commissioner 20240704

Hello and welcome the American University. My name is caroline and i am a tax professor and managing director at the tax policy of business. I wanted to take a quick moment to introduce you to the Tax Policy Center for thoseont knoa nonpartisan Research Center housed in the school of business and we put out research on business literacy and education to Tax Compliance challenges the independent workforce, access to jcapital challenges of Business Owners and importantly for today, Tax Administration challenges. Broadly, we are experts on aia analytics and Digital Transformations and we build this expertise into the researce Research Center earlier this year together with ibm center of the business of Government Produced research on agencies can effectively adopt and deploy aai. The research reflects challenges for those using ai and we were able to draw on comments from the mmissioner, folks into tax agency administrations from around the world to talk about how aia has the potential to improve tand outreach, how an facilitate the compliance enforcement activities and how it needs to be rolled out alongside the r strategies and government structures. What we are here to talk about is the irs Digital Transformation plan which will be introduced by the irs commissioner who is marking his one Year Anniversary with the irs this week, and he will be presenting a presentation for 20 minutes and then be in conversation with our very own david. They Work Together about the 2020 president ial transition so it will be great to hear them recap and shed some light. So thank you for joining us. [applause]■ one Year Anniversary as commissioner it is an honor to be here at this historic university. The irs is an agency that affects all americans and a university is a fitting place to talk about the future irs because you are at the start of a journey where you will be filing your taxes with of irs for many, many years to come. ÷ n the fall of 2022, i take a phone call from the bite administration asking if i would be able to serve as irs commissioner. Once i could get my jaw off the floor it was a great honor. My first question tohet leadership what are you hoping i or any irs commissioner would time . Ve in this role at this the answer they gave me encapsulates the once in a generaon next commissioner will lead the irs through the most important transformation in a government. So again it might draw it dropped to the floor and i wille suspected of hyperbole. Something of a sales pitch to get my hat in the ring for the job. This was no exaggeration. Do it digitally on your phone and tablet without paper wherever you are in the world the modernization of the irs is a generational imperative. Evidil is just part of the imperative. Our race to catch up with the modern economy three critical results. To ensure access, engage in makes Administration Work better. Increasing accountability for those inappropriately exploit the tax system. And third and unlocks our ability to restore trust and irj the taxes. So lets dive in and explore where the work being done to transform the irs is so rightn in beneficial our family and our community. I will tell you about the momentum we have today and where the momentum can take us. I remember the moment i realized that thise or in exaggeration. Our morning staff meeting last fall. The nighteen at the service for america award at the kennedy center, the oscs for ■govement i w excited i challenge the irs team to win on his big awards next year. They asked me fmple of an award winner i immediately shared with them my Favorite Award from the night before. It was a nasa scientists who sent a rocket into space both light and asteroid 7 million bales away going 4000. These nasa scientists hit the asteroid dead center not only did they hit a bullseye, it changed its trajectory. For the first time nasa if an asteroid were ever headed for earth they could deflect it and save humanity. Ooked at me sy and said commissioner that is going to be tough to beat. Shrewd member of my chimed in and said but where did nasa get the money for the rocket . It is collected by the that is the moment i fully appreciated how important the irs is and how monumental this it is not just ensuring we have the funds of nasa scientists to save the planet from an asteroid its ensuring the governmenas the funds to keep our food safe our skies safe our roads safe. If we are essential toany of the life in america possible i am left with one burning question. . Why did Homer Simpson not like us . Theyre supposed to be a video here. Lets see if it pops on. I dont think were going have the video. In that video probably pop on one telling the story. In that video probably pop on one telling the story. Homer drives oh boo your self. So what does Homer Simpson not like us . Maybe he thanks hes paying too much in taxes. It may be he■f thanks his taxes are far too complicated. Its outside the control we d we the tax code. But if homer and other taxpaying americans are upset we are not answering the phone, we are taking too long to send a refund or otherwise increase stress and frustration as they navigate thei decreasing it that we can and should turn things around. We have a large mountain to climb. These are snapshots of the irs just a few years ago. Paper returns piled up in hallways and shuttered Tax Assistance Center so people cannot get help. So i suppose i could undstandy n or other cartoon americans are being frustrated how do we get to this point . When the rest of the world had ■ moved beyond paper deterioratg customer service, anemic audit rates stagnant technology, it was the result of two trends over the■b last couple of decad. The first trend the irs had been underfunded for far too long. From 2010 until 2020 when the irs budget was slashed by more than 22 . During this decade of budget cuts the population grew and ana returns increase by more than 15 million along with countless increasingly complicated financial environments, globalization, additional currencies, exponential growth and other factors that increase the size and complexity of the american tax system. As o bter plate of responsibilities grew irs employees work through it. Long hours and sweat equ done because Innovative Technologies were not available. Enter the pandemic. The iris workforce including running the tax system and successfully getting emergencyps of americans on Small Businesses across the country. But eventually the bottom fell coming out of the pandemic we are so varied understaffed and hobbled by stagnant technology we literally could no longer answer the phones or keep our walkin centers open. Enter the Inflation Reduction Act in 2022. Finally we had new funding to build the irs back to par performance but builds it for the future. Even though this new law provides a 10 year runway for the irs to it has been clear since day one that we needed to show results immediately. Funds from the new law will allow us to dig out of a deep hole. Get back to Better Service standards and for the transformation to come. Irs. Lyzing a new era for the hallways and cafeterias has ended. Phone center is back all the walkin centers are open fully staffed and expanding around the country and we have new tools on irs. Gov and if suit record traffic to the site. We have much more Digital Tools of the last two years that we were able to■i launch the last. Sometimes it is the Little Things this we get a call back option texture is required to stay on hold to listen to elevator■c when you are funded you can make these types of improvements. If not your operations remain in the past. Now we have an opportunity to move beyond just base a performance and build a 21st century tax agency to serve the american manner they expect and the level they deserve. Our vision for the irs is truly in easing the stress caused by our complex tax laws. Simpler forms, more intuitive processes when a staff trained drug empathy, understanding who have the tools to help taxpayers meet their obligations easily and fairly. But let me make it even more real for you. My parents are in tir 80s have never use an atm. They go to bank come talk to a teller and get cash. My children on the other hand are in their 20s have never set foot in a bank appeared to open an account and certainly not get think about how you interact with your bank. When you buy something with a debit card, that transaction shows up on your onlinecc before you even leave the store. When yr fraud it will text you d let you sort it out equally from your smart may be fraud with your account we send you a letter. We are working to change that. Trap form to be ready■k for the new digital economy. With historic funding through the new law building irs were all tpa can be all of their responsibilities including all interaction with the irs. No questions, payments and a completely digital manner that they choose. Most taxpayers want to interact with us onansformation is also e keystone that helps unlock the True Potential of the irs. Heres how. When financial and travel companies moved everything online which accelerated during covid the number of people calling drop precipitously. As did the number of people strapped to bricks and mortar locations. Were you can deliver for taxpayers online it is one or we redeploy capacity and absolute still need our employees who will now have the time and tools to focus on helping people who need it most increasing scrutiny on bad actors and purposeful tax evaders. In terms of unlocking capacity to help the people■ help the most, less time on phones means more time means our employees can spend more time engaging in communitiesnd mama and volunteer tax clinics that assist low income filers helping taxpayers who cannot afford to hire an accountant to get it right the first time. processing paper returns employees can spend more time helping every taxpayer regardless of income claim credit for like the earned income tax credit which is an economic lifeline for so many. Never claim the credit. We could unlock our potential to do more to help them. Digital irs does not mean we are walking away from service. It means we can do more t help. Digital transformation to unlock new capacity is already begun. Ft upgrades to wheres my refund tool. Also this Filing Season we launched direct file a system of taxpayers file tax returns online directly with the irs for free. Direct file is almost tailormade for students its a simple tax situation. Check it out go to direct file. Irs. Gov to see if you qualify. Here is an example of what fut. A clear way to communicate with the irs and protects taxpayers. We will have a screen on your online account like this letting you know if the irs is trying to contact you. Why is this we have too many bad actors calling and texting, pretending to be the ir pulling out their t card and paying them a fake tax debt. In the future if you get such a call or text you will just t5 if it shows a green banner like this actual irs is not trying to reach you. It is not us. Hang up, ignore the text and if you are willing to report this to us online so we can investigate it. You can seat right there at the Digital Transformation frees up capacity to better crackdown it also unlocks capacity for the irs for scrutiny evade the tax responsibility. Most significantly cuts down on basic mistakes and our employeeo focus on the more complex issues. Noncompliance overwhelmingly occur among our highest wealth and largest taxpayers. Many wealthy and large taxpayers are doing the right thing to many are using complexities. Too inappropriately shield their income. Returns means more resources such as Artificial Intelligence appears through this complexity and find hidden income. In fact we are already using use of ai the lst i world for hiding income behind complexity that same with the precision partnerships playing by the rules and doing the rightew ai models audits on 76 hyatt risk complex partnerships includingfunds andd partnerships. Unlocks new capacity toinize a e high risk complex filers that we previously could. At unlocks to focus our enforcement efforts on the high income groups that for too long have fallen under the radar. Served notices to 125,000 high income taxpayers who fail to file a federal income tax return since 2017. Including 25000 people with incomes over 1 million. These nonviolence represent more than 100 billion in financial activity. We are cracking down on 1 billie will not allow higher income individuals tail, through their basic civic duty of filing a more digital irs unlocks ouro. Ability to audit inappropriate writeoffs for personal use of corporate assets such as corporate jets. In my first year here the irs team has already collected nearly 500 million millionaires and fairness in our tax system. And we are just getting started. So, this is how taxpayers will unlock our employees capacity to help people in need and to increase scrutiny where it is most critical is new funding inner transformation to unlock our ability to ensure ■x■feyor everyone who plays by the rules and helps restore trust in the system. No issue is more important than fair year ago, in fact in the days leading up to my Senate Confirmation hearing, researchers at several universities and the u. S. Study that black taxpayers three times more likely to be audited than other taxpayers. Our processes were impacts on black taxpayers. Not only committed to fixing this top priority confirmed but i became more motivated to become the irs commissioner. I wanted to fix this. Any indication of racial bias in our work is unacceptable. I immediately met with the irs team setting the issue. Too quickly evaluate the extent to which art prioritiess in they contributed to the spit disparity paid since ive been commissioner ive been meeting with communities that were impacted, hearing their concerns, sharing our regrets and outlining the actions we are ta or they were identified. Making changes tour algorithms specifically intended to address the disparities. We are now ready to invest new resources to help idey disparities age, gender and geography. Research to continuously refine our approaches across compliance efforts. Were trying to rebuild trust for overhauling appliance and hold ourselves accountable for the taxpayers we serve. For one or 50 years dating back to president lincoln but more tax laws are increasinglyved. Playing a larger role in addressing the most pressing challenges of our time. On programs to cut child poverty. Programs to expand Healthcare Access until age 26 the Affordable Care act. As to the irs and taxes. To address the threat of Climate Change because the hundreds of billions of dollars tax credits. With defendant we can support policies to improve the lives of all americans. To meet this critical moment in tax collection and but to succeed and truly build building irs for the 21st century we need you. We need t count lawyers and finance experts. We also need data scientists, engineers, experts and ai in human behavior. No matter what you are your expertise and most importantly your passion for change ino6vice. The summer of 1963 john f. Kennedy came heremericans University Commencement where he called for the First Nuclear Test Ban Treaty with the soviet union. It was the start of a historic effort that led to greater stability and peace in the world. President kennedy enjoyed esident. I pass a photo of his speech in our building every day. President kennedy told graduates in 1 human destiny is beyond human beings. Mans reason and spirit the seeminglunle. We believe we can do it again. Thankfully Tax Administration is a far cry from nuclear diplomacy. The decisions the action of the irs affect the lives of every americ■s indirectly. Those are in this effort to solve what has for too long been unsolvable. To undertake the most transformation of a Government Agency in u. S. Catalyzed by historic funding, guided we can transform the irs for the 21st can meet taxpayers where they are paid support them to meet their obligations and make Tax Administration work better. n to try to exploit the tax system. Restore trust and increase fairness. We can betterer the c■ant our te years and decades to come. ■ clicks they are handing out over their i need one of them. Quickly first think the irs team n together. Theyre working over the weekend let me say thats extraordi■ury speech. I have been for 33 years. Ive never seen aovnm that. Its usually looking at a net wood podium looking through notes with eight part plan and subparts. It was a metaphor for what youre trying to do is open up the irs, be transformational i got the compliment you on that. Thank you. Quickly talk about your person ive known you for a peet the boston consulting group. Nn money. One of the hardest jobs in government. Why did you do that . It is a passion and a calling for Public Service. ■< at the of the acting irs commissioner very challengingmo. The first few days is doing meet and greets with senators and senators andmembers of congress. I met with senator john mccain. They were news and protests outside of the irs building. Senator mccains that you must be someone who likes to run toward the gunfire. And i thought i aspire to be pe . That such a big heavy complement to receive such a motivatingto a lot. Especially from senator mccain. For me a sudden inspiration■ t be that type of person. From that moment forward i dont know if i am but i want to be. If i get asked for the to do something hard and challenging but important i want to be the person senator mccain suggested i could be. This is an old ambitious audacious plan but how much is it going to cost . We have roughly 60 billion under the Inflation Reduction Act. Its been over 10ea monumental h all the modernization that is required to achieve this vision. We are making progress as i said paid we have momentum. But this vision taxpayers around nation can just go online and get everything done. Theres a lot of data clean, tes cleaned up, processes that need to be engineered behind the scenes the irs or technology is. Its on old language. It is not cloud enabled. We have a lot of investments to do the types of things i described in terms of reaching taxpayers where they we need people on the ground in communities and we need more accountants to help us with the number of high income filers out there who are invading their taxes is more they could handle and scrutinize today. He of technology and ai to help you be youre going to spend the 60 billion for it how much you think youre going to recover in and create an easier way to do your taxes. Get things done and less times prot■eec but the work we do to recover from those who arentne ratio fr every 1 dollar invested. The return is you into a centering use at you, you have a lot in your plates. The reality is and whats very important to me i think its on the irs without the w 90000 people . 90000 people have the unique opportunity to paint a vision of much more digital set of solutions. We are still hiring as i said in my one of the biggest surprises that i had a pleasants ready for change. They are passionate about building the capacity■, gaining tools, taking on new training and new responsibilities to do more to serve taxpayers. That is inspiring toe was passion about better serving taxpayers. Cookson you are successful in achieving your goals will be much more digital and efficient. Does that mean you need fewer employees if im employee of the irs should not be worried about . You should not be worried about your job. That was the decision not just all taxpayers can do all of wits digitally if they choose. The next part of that division . But locks new capacity over time to be redeployed to do other things differently. We have 7 million taxpayers ou country who are low income eligible for the earned income tax credit but dont apply for. We need workforce working within the community. Not all of these have access to computers and to go online. Are. Lester was served with us and called pop go to one thats not close to existing elite set up shop and work up with low income taxpayers. But you say it we could reach all of those aas, there are so many more areas with underserved taxpayers that we need to reach. To the size and complexity of the tax system andur taxpayers. Again we are not going to be able to be successful if we lose the workforce and they capacity it wld bring. Will start the tax evaders who said their 25000 o over a min taxes. Who are these people who think they can get away with it plus willtechnology enable them to br e sure they pay their fair share . Of the hundred 25000 taxpayers out there. 25000 in more than a million. Since 2017. Heres the thing about have the funds. You dont have the funding is not the letter thats expensive its theloetter no followup none of our letters will have. We have to wait until we have the capacity to rehire all of the people to hire up to the white staffing level. Now we can reach about these non filers. We are using technology the increasing our enforcement of l. Including high wealth and tax payers and here is we invest in these capacities and get smarter and more precise the ai data science and subject matter expertise is tech the right cases for audit if you do the right thing we wont have to reach yo you will have the expense of the irs audit. You will know that others in your market your will be held accountable to the right thing. The due scrutiny on these complex situations actually benefits the complex filers sucked in a high income lets you were nice enough to do a roundtable with some students and professor classes and also professor b community and help low income americans file taxes. One of the things that one of the students says the level of trust on the irs is extremely low. Including some that are not documented americans. They get an envelope and will not open it because they do not trust the irs. ■ so what is behind that and what are you doing to improve the level of trust . That is why its an essential theme that we have to trust. Game of how we are communicating with taxpayers. We have to relook at oums, our engagement strategies so they are including more empathy. We need to do more partnerships irs. Im explain in many cases were reaching out to the■m t makere t benefits and credits they may be eligible for. Part of it is announcing an ambition in order to rou north is at the irs. I am announcing it indicating our true north is to help low income taxpayers gainp. To get the credits they deserve so that we can help protect them from these scams because income and vulnerable populations tend to be more subject and they tend to be exploited more■ starts with see ambition. Communicating and obvious have to walk the walk and back that up. How do we back that up we get out into the community. We do these pop up walk and centers. We do things like this past weekend experiences will be open our doors and focus on training and working with low income communities. But our partners are others can help demystify that e irs risk. What we want to do for underserved populations this idea i here to help them provide support for access and to make sure help. You mentioned your parents or their 80s and my dad turns 90 today. He files his taxes and he may call the irs every day. We are familiar with that profile. I have your cell phone i can give him . [laughter] how should Digital Transformation strategy help someone like my dad . First of all we already havey refund, that we are continuing to invest. Like for example we createdg ek filing a virtual chat function we are texting back and forth in some cases and other cases the situation. Its enabling people toquick, et phone access to us so they can have complete clarity. Account that has everything you could possibly need is that there is one stop shop. May beat your 90yearold dad does not feel as comfortable online but u. S. His son or grandkids can work with him to set up the oine aount andrandpae call from someone claiming to be the irs and by the way these imposters they. Specifically on the elderly. Theyve studied different scripts they can used to trick the elderly into pulling up what we need to do is get the word out and have Public Service announcements increasingly about how the irs website can b truthe whether the first about we really ever call you. And when we do, which is very rare we dont threaten with this Immediate Tax penalty. We do not make promises we do not threaten we are still sharing with irs and other agencies that could risk deportation. He cards if something is going to happen with the irs that is significant is going to play out over many,. And again we very rarely call you. We need to get the word out increasingly through Public Service announcements. Through partners, through events like this to set the reality of what we are trying to g what asis. Is go to the other end of the my daughters 22 she felt her taxes for the first time last year end i helped her. It was challenging because is not that easy. If m filing and she has a refund how much faster will she get a refund electronically and gets her Bank Account Information versus what i do which is send in a piece of paper . The irs we strongly encourage electronic filing. We strongly encourage you to select direct deposit for a track recordight nows we get refunds to people and under 21 days if you file electronically and choose direct deposit just to clarify what we are trying to do with the irs is building this digitally relevant for your children and their children and so on. As to give them option. Now andt several years the way you file electronically and for free has both the commercial software provider. This year as i mentioned were piloting 12 states an option o the menu to file direct for free. You will get your refund if youre owed one allison 21 days. We did not do it electronically how much longer . And plus you are adding to the work paper. That means were not helping the people who need help the most. The more we get rid of the more we drive people to our website and build a website that can do all these things you can do with your favorite online bank. The more our people can focus on helping veterans dire strts each year she comes out with a report was keeping you up at re. A long time it takes for those who beenictims and takes way too long. A victim of Identity Theft you can get resolution from the irs to get everything sorted quickly. When i say a fully digital irs unlocks our full potential means to fully digital irs unlocks our potential speedily theyre not losing sleep anymore we are solving these problems more quickly. There are still problems to ur employees are so critical. We have a table outside. We are hiring a working with our employees on making their journey at the irs as fruitful and rewarding as possible too. Encourage ask a couple more take questions from students as wellb you are recruited you mentioned you were recruiting not just folks who are accountants but digital tranor■ttation it experts, lawyers. Why should someone want to work at the irs . Why is it an attractive place for students to work . Its one word, impact. We touch every household in america. Every business. The decisions that we make Significant Impact we have a big plate of responsibility to make the aac better for the American People i mention this in my remarks, over the last several decades the tax laws have been increasingly leveraged to drive critically important policy issues2 some f the most important of our generation income and equality things like childhoodhealth care change. All of those things are now implemented substantially■■ through the tax system. Its people at the irs hard at work implementing the tax credit under the Inflation Reduction Act. Many scholars and experts around the world feel the tax credits that areed may be the most powerful legislative mechanism ever to drive industries to go green and who is responsible for implementing legislation . It is a lot of pressure it is also rewarding. If you are sitting in class or thinking about your career and you want to help americans with this fundamental civicot of work for you. If you are interested in working to implement tax laws that are driving things like helping low income, increasing health care access, addressing the Climate Change, we have work for you. I think that is a powerful message for those interested in Public Service. There are some students coming or going for classes, that is normal here. My last question is lets assume you are■ successful and, as you have been pretty much everything you have done, how will the irs look differently and for five ye i want to state that one of my philosophies of leadership is to recognize i have not always been successful. Had failures and setbacks and triumphs. What i always try to do what i take one step back in two steps forward. What i have tried to do in this bring to the table experience not only my experience but experience from across industries and government agencies. What are the preconditions for success . One of the preconditions for failure . Lets build a strategy to probability of success and minimizes probability of failure. I look back on my failures and tion. With the irs will look like is essentially what it will look like is a very high functioning weit platform whatever you need to get done in the basics making a payment, rsin is my current status . I need a transcript and want to know it happened a couple years ago i need a pulpy historic rerd it is at your fingertips. But then as a robust workforce we are building today still behind thein two places were heg people but cannot afford to hire an accountant or a lawyer that are struggling to navigate a very complicated tax laws and we are there to meet them where they are and provide them world service. Not just digitally but in person and walking through is increasingly effective finding■m where people are shielding large corporations creating equity and our enforcement. That is what the Inflation Reduction Act is intended to buy and as i mentioned we are making momentum. We have a lot of work to do. But we are off to a great lets open it up to a couple of students. How much time do we have are we good . After the first question. We have some microphones identify yourself. Hi i am cameron johnson. Im a sophomore here at au and i am hopefully going to in my school and map masters degree in Forensic Accounting i very might well be working here at the irs. I had a prepared question up wih a better one. You really touched on the point of radical positivity. Just opticky way of clouding whs going on. But radical positivity more direct things to stay pose are e American Public perception of the irs. Sue asked as young people toward towards government enter generation how do we push forward was proposed here during this talk . Thank you. It is such a good question. I start with myth busting to understand what is at stake. In terms of the types of runnin. Its intended to help people. Not just about tax collection but also to the extent you are worried and stressed an anxiety what you think you may owe. It is creating an environment where people increasingly see the irs help and a mechanism to potentially reduce stress because we can get your answer we have lots of investments we need to make we have to have the have to make and createeady to partnerships. We have a very Important Program volunteer tax clinics inspiring. These are people who volunteer their time to help low income people do their taxes. Kx her std anxiety begets them access to benefits. There is so much more that we can do to grow and strengthen our volunteer program run the country. I think as people see us out in the communities working to low income, to help veterans which are often targeted by these types of scans and schemes. And start to see this ambition we are communicating. We are putting resources behind it and we are putting sweat equity behind it starts at home. It starts with our employees motivating them, having them understand what the m and what the ambition that we are taking. It also partners. Lot directly to taxpayers. As the critical local groups volunteer tax clinics, the local groups involved with our local taxpayer experience. With organizations like theose s that may not make it to the front page of the newspaper or the headlines. My sense is we went on the local level not the national l■zevel. That requires us to change the way we are communicating and engaging. We will continue to do so. Ngs like that but i also plan as commissioner increasingly out into local communities. I want our Leadership Team and staff to do that. I think that is the ground game that is needed to change the und pursue the irs. Next question . S back. Maybe just introduce yourself. I am a student hear from ugandas with the authority. Im glad to hear some of the the thingsyouve talked abo notx administration as a way of enforcing rules because we have a lot like a boat here. Over the weekendd■ book to an International Student like me. Should not be used by us. For International Students and others people talk some told is for citizens it is for us national students. It was very thank you for the question. This is part of this expansion we have to to make sure we are meeting taxpayers where they are. Some taxpayers cities. Somewhere in rural locations. Some are international with homes overseas but they are here, they are working and earning income. Ax responsibility each of those unique situations can create unique products or menu options that we provide. And unfortunately if we are not comprehensive certain taxpayer groups will fall through the crooks. Will sank onto theres something on here that deans mining. Im really glad you asked the question. Me times to have this new pilot with this direct file solution you can file electronically with the irs. Right now we are in 12one of ths i get is when are you coming to my state . The other thing is am i eligible . What i want to make sure were doing is looking across different taxpayer groups and making sure no taxpayers are slipping through the crooks. That need this type of solution and digital experience. Ill take that question back make sure we are understanding there is that may not be u. S. Citizens for they may be here but have a tenth tax responsibility. What are our tools for he has come over here. Harrison i am a grad student in school of Public Affairs and Political Science. ,s seems to have a branding marketing issue. I know you guys are not the one to come up wit the it. How do you see yourselves getting around that . My undergrad was in education. One of my favorite stories i told my students was one of the worst days of my life was when i got my first paycheck was really excited toet it and then half of it was gone because of the irs. I realize i have to pay taxes for theqn very first time. Just going through that. And i understand what this taxes go toward now but 12 yearsnce as a teenager getting the first paycheck but when you are a teenager you dont realize that. Its like that money is gone forever and never going to get it back. Quickly still feel like that. Emotionally, yes, i do but logically i understand that monies going somew■mhere. Goingo come out like we took that money we told the irs you have to go get it so how do you deal that branding issue as the guy in charge of the irs . [laughter] boxes show the video of homer ■7because i recognize that we ae a chronically unpopular across america a part of that is okay and heres what i mean by that. F the irs is that we are kind of like an nfl we get a call wrong 80000 people will boo us. You get the call right 80000 people will boo us. If we call show on instant replay the big up a call right, 80000 people will boo it. But without the referee theres no game, it is chaos. At the end of the super known as planning a parade for the referees and that is okay too. The referees can go home at night knowing they a part of whs special event happen on the thing that entertains millions of americans each year and proud of what we do. The branding is not necessari the branding is more about what we are trying to achieve and what we are working hard to do. P i do think and i think the irs can certainly help, there needs to be a broader messaging and civics classes and across the u. S. About the positive impacts of the government can have. When y woke u morning the government touched you positively five times before breakfast. We have etched in the irs headquarters outside a from justin for Oliver Wendell holmes taxes are what we pay for civilized society. I mention safe roads, safe skies, safe food. I think about the facts but im getting on an airplane and strapping myself and it down the aisle and see my kids strapping themselves in. I see my wife. I think about the fact air Traffic Controllers are busy making sure florida, california or wherever we are going. I think about all of t they have through. All of the Safety Standards that have made air travel and the in the u. S. And internationo saf. And for me i think taxes are worth it for the road system we have and ther the fact i got to dinner tonight i dont have to worry about toxins in the food or getting sick. Taxes. And that is in education we owe it to ourselves toe more thankful think about more impact fully. I celebrate people like service for america at the partnership for Public Service. They are celebrating the■ise tes from nasa that are taking steps to save humanity. And i also want to make a comment the of ntu our employees union. We have both unionized and non. They are all coming to work every day to try to make astem. I think they are part of our branding. I got a phone call from a friend who is helping his mom with an irs issue. His was failing it was not as good as she once was. He had to go get something and he held her onlineit representative. When he got back the rs represent was reminding him things he promises mom five minutes earlier to dupree pray dont get this a lot bikes want to tell you how wonderful this woman was and how much she help through the stressful situation. Thats actually thats what i hear more than a here but irs intimidation. That is what i am proud of them we have to get that message out and people like doreen are fighting every day to make sure the image of the Government Employee is warranted and about what it meant and. You cant shut down the irs operations for too long without having significant mission icalue employees came back in, masked, social distance, they had to do processes to open up all paper in a much different environment and importantly and this is where i come back to impact when needed to distribute emergency payments to americans in Small Business across the country to keep our economy afloat so that people could keep food on the table and really create an economic lifeline, it was the irs that did it and why . Because the irs infrastructure because we touch every household. We were the logical choice to do all the organization anda■ logistics that was necessary to make sure that every american got their emergency payment. Again, we are the rest. For us and thats okay but i really do think its important that the stories are told maybe in education environments like like American University but also in High School Civics class a what impact they have. 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