Transcripts For CSPAN2 American 20240704

Travel to park, learn about Congress Hall. The Meeting Place of the u. S. House and senate between 1790 an18 is park Ranger Matthew ifill. We are standing in the old house of representatives in a building that we Call Congress hall, although originally it was built as a courthouse for philadelphia for most of its history, thats exactly what it was. But in the years that the city of washington, d. C. Is being built, philadelphia serves as our temporary us. This room serves for the house of representatives. That well see in a moment was the United States senate, the house of representatives. Each representative at that in history represented 30,000 people. We had a population at our first census of about three and three quarters million. We had 106 members of the house we would sit in this room and eventually from 16 states and the story a capitol the story where were taking a new and actually offer it doing things like adding new states to so the bill of would become a part our constitution while philadelphia was the capitol in fact the s announce amendments to the constitution in by basically coming congress here in this building and officially announcing that changed our constitution which of course the bill of rights is a huge part of our history and will be in thef. Continuing talking point our political but also its amendment process itself proving that that part of the constitution works that we can update and make changes to that constitutes without having to start completely the beginning. But really for this building its its to a large degree its sort of creating the american political system, the two party sy that we know today is going to begin and its going to begin with issues much you would expect early issueshat wed face as the United States would be debt. We had debt and spending arguments and debates in this building. Its not any different except for, you know, the details as to what we do today in washington, d. C. We argued about debt from the revolutionary war, our early government, alexander hamilton, gthe secretary wanted all the debt from the states to come to the federal and then to use that debt, paying it off to build for the young United States and. Not everybody agreed with his plans. So you start seeing division and, then Foreign Policy questions would arise and france go to war. The 1790s and a lot of americans would feel like we owed france they helped us in our war. Still dont like the british very much but for George Washington the first president the notion of neutrality is preferable dont really have any money. We didnt really have a navy at all and our army not much to speak of. So we certainly werent in a position to go and fight a war. Certainly not in europe and probably even fighting our neighbors in, british, canada in those days. So. So hes going to present with cabinet approval a neutrality proclamation which starts again divide us into this question of ought we be doing more to help france now, the same notion of keeping us out of George Washingtonill send john j, who was at that time our first chief justice of the supreme, send him to britain to negotiate a new treaty with the british and again, with the idea of keeping us of this european war and settling some those questions of border and ocean the british john jay had been on the team that negotiated the peace treaty that ended the revolutionaryo he seemed like a good candidate for washington to send while treaty that he brought back becomes very controversial and really one of the tipping points creating these two parties as sort of leading to what we know today. The treaty is■c basically starts becoming publicly attacked in the press at the press of the what would become the Democratic Republican Party the party of men likemadison would start vilg this treaty. Now whats interesting is nobodys actually read it. It hasnt been published, but yet its going to pilloried in the press the point where an awful lot of hate this treaty that they dont actually know side this is the side of the john adams and the Alexander Hamiltons is in favor the treaty theyre in favor of kindf building the young economy of the United States, staying out of a war, trading all sides in europe, not being, you know limited by alliance to france, Something Like this. So were really seeing this treaty kind of a symbolic head point between these two sides ■■7and the Senate Approves the treaty. Now, according to the constitution, senate treaties, and theyre done now the problem is the house representatives, this is our first treaty ever. The house of representatives basically says we want a chance to discuss this trey. So they dd washington to see all the papers. And so on well he says, no,t. You guys dont have anything do with it. So what the house essentially is going to do is they say, well, maybe what well try to do is take away the funding. We wont pay for this treaty. Anything that has to be paid, well just not spend the money therefore the will effectually die at this point time. So thats not necessarily a new strategy that you see with things in washington, d. C. Today so so the big fight in the house of representatives in this room is or not to pay for this treaty and theres days of debates and on the last day theres a big crowd in our public balcony. You have men like Vice President john Adams Supreme Court justices sitting the balcony is of course an era where we love our speeches, political speeches deep infused with rhetoc and the be speaker of the time is a man named fisher ames is a federalist. He is definitely this treaty to survive. But hes been ill. He hasnt said anything. And of course, this last day, everyones waiting to see if hell make the last statement about it. And he does. He stands up and hes sort begins by saying, well, if my ■ like to say a few words on the subject. He proceeds to speak for over an hour. I think its about five pages in the congressional record speech. He collapses at the into his sleep, but he talked about the last war that we fought with the british and if people remembered all the devastation. Do we really want to do this again . Fight another war, four years and you know apparently men some the men have tears ij0theien he, its Supreme Court Justice James ear, adele turns to Vice President joq hnmy, isnt that . And says, yes, indeed he is. So the treaty will end passing by just a couple of votes at one point. There is, a committee of the whole vote, head of the committee of the whole was a man named, frederick muhlenberg, who was our first speaker of the house. And he breaks the tie. Now he, is ostensibly on the democratic, the jeffersonian side. But hes that maybe not going to war is a good idea so he he ends up to pass the bill for the fu■ing of this treaty and he is vilified he is that he he voted for this treaty against his side to the point where he loses his and his next election to congress. But even worse in the short term, he is stabbed on the sidewalks of philadelphia by his brother in law because of his votem sure family gatherings become a little awkward after a while. But it tells us how high our political tensions can be in our early days. T at the same time, were also proving that that new constitution, despite these sort of difficulties works because probably the best this rooms history in a lot of ways is the day john adams is inaugurated at the front by the speaker of the house, his platform. Heform with Thomas Jefferson also at front of the room, outgoing president george. Now, this is a big deal changing president s for today is a fairly normal thing. We have big parades and parties and its you know, its a big thing. But this was a really important because this is where we are proving that the system where we we change them when we vote were proving that that system works because the john adams election is a lot of firsts its the first time were going tonor president. George washington is the only man to unanimously elected president , which he was twice. He did not end of his first term. He didnt even want a second term. He was kind of talked into it essentially kind of almost on both sides. Talk him into another four years. He doesnt really run. Hes unanimously reelected at the end of that second term, people try talk him into a third, but hes not having it. He just wants to retire at this in time. Its somebody elses turn. So he will step aside. John adams now we know if this works, weve never done before, weve never actually changed our president s. So will theeople. This we dont know the other thing to remember is john adams was contested in his election. He actually had to fight a battleomas jefferson, these two had been friends. Obviously, they wrote the declaration of independence together. Now opposite sides of, the fenc they dont even want to talk to each other. So the is very ugly. Its very nasty. Its very close. Its sort of for us today a normal president ial election. John adams wins by three electoral votes. So only slightly more than half. Now, weve never had a president who got only half the votes. Weve nev had president who had to really fight for an election. And of course, the other problem those early days is if you come in second, you are vice,hi means the new president is one party. The new Vice President is the party. Just pick any modern you like. Put the o opponents together for four years as the executive and you can see how neither of them would be particularly happy. So john adams and Thomas Jefferson are not happy to be room together. This is a full house. That day, the balcony seats. Youve got most of the here a lot of curus ity b■ut you calse men in this room are not very happy see john adams standing up there. The other half of the men in the room are not very to s Thomas Jefferson standing up there. And generally speaking, nobodys very happy that George Washington is leaving us in this. So, john would kind of lom and f people who werent very happy. Hed see people with almost tears in their eyes that washington was leaving them and he kind of would later say that as he looked around, he only saw one person that day who particularly looked happy, which was, of course, George Washington had a look on his face that said, john adams, you are fairly in and i am fairly out. So so now lets find out whos the happier on day but washington would quietly go private life and i think very happily withdrawal the scene adams himself be inaugurated he really were seeing the throes of political fighting going on but. It happened peacefully. Weworked and we proved that we could continue in times of difficulty like this, that we continue forward with the system in place in 1800, they would leave this building, move to the current capital in, washington, dc. Adams and jefferson would have another difficult election at that. This time jefferson winning and he would be the first president inaugurated in the new capital of washington. But these years ladelphia are setting the tone for the rest of our early history and all the way up to today. The rot out as a courthouse. So this would have been a courtroom. But around the time this building finished construction, its actually being built during the constitutional convention. So when theyre finished, construct seven is around the time that philadelphia offers it to the us government. I think secret hope is that if were really nice to them theyll just stay here and not go to that new city along th ■g potomac. So they them their new courthouse building and they end up actually expanding it little bit to make more room for congress. Wep looks like this. We actually have a seating chart from one session of congress that shows the design of the a s that have survived were fortunate that we do have some of the chairs today unfortunately we only have about 30 of them between the two houses of congress and most of them we dont know necessarily house they were in so today. All of our original chairs are in the senate for this room. As far as original items goes, the chair on the platform for the speaker of the housew is, an original. We actually have three chairs exactly like that we dont necessarily which was which, but we have one today that we assume was the speaker of the house, one for the Vice President as president , the senate, and the third for the chief justice of the supreme. Now, we dont againan know which one is which. So what we can fairly say is that somebody important sat in that chair for the speaker of the house, whether it was the speaker of the house or not, were not sure. But as far as this room went in the early 1800s, when the federal government moved out, it went to become a courthouse again. Fact this was divided into two rooms for a long number of they built a hallway down the middle so they could have two courtrooms instead of one very large one, even ab the time of the First World War, the City Government has left this block and moved to our current city the city recognizing the historic value of these buildings, has some restoration work done and they kind of want to turn them to museum space. So if youd visited this building in the years around First World War the 1920s you would have seen building or the rather restored back to the big single room that it would have but it would have just been a room filled with old stuff o museum after world war two, when the National Park Service Comes in to take over the Historic Buildings here again, goal is tryto how they looked e important days. So thats where we try to study, how did they have the seating set up again we have one chart that weve been ab t drew showio was sitting where at least for one snapshot of a session of congress. We have some, you know, enough e platform for the speaker of the house we have enough original furniture that we can sort of match up things that were we think were here unfortunately a lot of the items that were here if the city needed them like chairs they kept using them things the government might have owned. For example, the library of congress started in this building. They started buying books. Congress here in philadelphia wasnt the library of congress as we know it today, but it does begin here. But a lot of the things that went to washington, dar when washington is burned, the war of 1812. We lose a lot of those early things. So so thats thats one of the challenges with a all things buo make do the best can to to give people that sense they come in to see them of what it lood li when men like james madison, Young Andrew Jackson were sitting in this room as members of the house of representatives. Well, they were in the chamber here at Congress Hall i the roou can see, is quite a bit more grand than the house of representatives would have been. Theres theres a couple of reasons fornation go back to whe british. Of course, british have a parliament with houses, an upper house, the house of lords, the lower house, the■r house common. And theres definitely parallels with our congress today. The of representatives is very commons and then the senatese of would therefore be to be based on the house of lords. But obviously were not to have dukes and earls■ and noble tits like that, but where we have states, every state is equal in the senate. So the states kind of take the plac o the british, you know, on using that green color in government, the colonies would use it and then into the american government. But the red would kind of be much more of that house of lords kind of color. So youre going to see red in that early senate here in philadelph different has that kind of look to it that seems a bit on higher end now the interesting thing about the senate is they are created with a bit more power. The power is a tie to the president and that the house of representatives does not have treaties in the united with thet the Senate Approved by the advice and consent of the senate. So the senate has to approve treaties. The house does not the senate. And so theres one power also any time the president makes an appointment to his cabinet ambass court course those. Folks would have to come in front the senate and be approved by the here, philadelphia, we have our very first treaty approved by the senate is the j treaty that led to the big fight in the house of representative over whether or not to pay for it. But over that same issue, we have the first rejection of a presidenalee by the senate. John rutledge who is actually a signer of the us constitution, one of the players in creating that position is one of washington first choices for the original six justices on the Supreme Court. He actually accepts but then resigns. The post without ever really having served on the Supreme Court. He will later become the chief justice of the South Carolina Supreme Court. When john jay, who was the first United States court chief justice, resigned as hes elected governor of new york, he leaves the post of chief justice. That leaves it empty washington will eventually tap John Rutledge of South Carolina. Rutledge will come back to philadelphia this time and actually serve as chief justice. However, he is appointed during a of congress. And so technically senate hasnt confirmed him, but he actually as session of the court as chief and leads them through some cases when the senate comes back later that year to return to session they then take up the question of approving John Rutledge George Washingtons never had anyone rejected that hes appointed so this has never happened in our youngest. Well John Rutledge has a couple of things going against him. Number one, there are guys in ttle crazy hes definitely had some kind of strange things that hes had to say at different times in the years of th1790. So hes a bit of a kind of reputation amongst some people, but also where hes going to get into trouble is he made some pointed comments. That treaty that was negotiated by his predecessor, he was critical in some speeches and they tended to be bit rambling speeches. He was very critical. Some of the things he said about the senate, which, of course, senators would read the newspapers and they would read what the South Carolina Supreme Court chief justice had to say about them. And when he actually came in front of them, they would remember these sorts of indecidn that perhaps this guy is not the best to be the chief justice of the Supreme Court. They even though hed actually run the court for a little while, he was kind, sent packing and back home. So the very first rejection of a president ial. So, again, here in philadelphia, constitution in a lot of different directions, being explored and used for first time. And of course, you go through history and you see other occurrences. This happens now. The one other power, the Supreme Court or of the senate, rather, thats not going get exercised here in philadelphia, is the power of impeaching. If the president is impeached, theote to have an impeachment. The senate be basically the jury in what is essentially a trial to decide whether or not the president should be removed. Office so yeah a look at the powers of the senate and you see these things that they can do that tie to the president in a lot of ways anrefore give them that little bit of extra advantage over the house of represents plus theyre a smaller body of with only two senators per state you represent an entire state which if youre from a large state means represent an awful lot of people. Finally, the other thing about the s it a bit unique is you get that longer term, the longest elected term in the United States with six year term. But early on, senators were not even elected. Senators are appointed on the basis of the constitution. Originally senators are appointed by their state legislature. So senators do not have to run for office. So as aphiladelphia met in priv. They did not meet in public. The house of representatives always did. So the house was open to the public. Senate was not. Now the Senate Getting into their own controversial like the jay treaty, one of the early set pennsylvania is a man named Albert Gallatin, probably most famous for being a long time secretary of the democratic republican side. And so the federal side of the early senate say the Albert Gallatin is swiss, has not lived in the United States requisite number of years to actually serve in the senate so the senate voted him out he is later elected to the house of representative by pennsylvania. Rejected the senate. So naturally people of pennsylvania want to know why their senators been kicked out of the senate. So you start feeling that we wao see whats going on when senate meets here in philadelphia and add to that, the press obvususg in the balcony watching the house. They want to have guys sitting up here watching, the senate, because thats news final. I am sure of it, that the house of representatives is sitting downstairs meeting in public, going, you know, why do those guys upstairs get to meet in private when we have to sit in front of all these people . So im sure theres pressure coming from many different directions. So finally, after about five years of meeting behind closed doors, the senate relents and builds a small balcony and they start to as well meet public here in philadelphia. And again, thats one of those longstanding traditions. But again, wheyo earliest this e youre saying that they dont have everything set stone. They have a constitution only four pages long. Thesme have to figure out what their job is all about based on a few paragraphs that say and powers that they have. George washington essentially in philadelphia. Again, just going on some, you know, paragraphs in the constitution and figuring out okay whadoesthat i do every day. So for example when he wants to negotiate a treaty with various Indian Tribes what hell do the first time hes going to do Something Like this is hell actually come into the senate and sit down and say, well, im supposed do treaties with your advice consent, so i want your advice and consent on these issues. I want to discuss and the senate kind of goes, wait a minute, you yeah, were not reallya te talking about that with you in the room. Why you give us some stuff and well talk about and get back to you later. So thats about when the president since then, its the more strict separation that were to now for washington. Hes not a guy who likes tons of you know public accolade and he like to give a lot of speeches if he can avoid that he do, he will do an address to every year. They dont call it the state of the union yet, but address to congress, which he writes with cabinet, he will come to the senate for inauguration for his second term as president. He kind of keeps it low key. He doesnt do the bigger■q event that we saw downstairs in the house of representatives with john adams, which was a much bigger watching than just going to a second term, basically, and more or less goes back to work because. He didnt really want the big public to take place, but thats something that would chang with inauguration. And then, of course, when you move down to washington, you start having inaugurations. The new capitol building. So that would be a change. So again, were sort growing states is today. Now, as you look around room, a lot of the that sat here in the senate weres of our constitution because being chosen by their a lot of the guys that had a big impact on writing sent by their states to fill alfie one of the ones thats not as james. Madison and he runm in virginiak henry one of the great powers in virginia henry is not a big fan of madison and his big role in the constitution. So essentiallyt of you know even though hes one of we call him the father of the constitution and the obvious plum of getting a seat in the senate doesnt happen for james. He has to suffer through being elected and running for office and becoming a member of the house. But as for election of senators, thatqns tunt phenomenon in our history. That would be the 17th amendment. So 1939 when wed start electing our senators. Only just over a century prior t just have to their state legislatures. So you think of the debates over senate theyre not actually debating people to vote for them. Theyre debating for people to vote for people for the State Government to vote for them. So its its very complicated system, which is why when you get into that 20th century populism, people are saying, you know what, we want to be able to vote for own senators. We vote for pretty much else in government. Why not the senate . So thats one of those things that changes. But again, we have to kind of grow into some of these things work. J4 back to these years and is other than that most everything does operate pretty well the same way were pretty using the system designed in Independence Hall that they kind of take into this building and use and continue on when washington in 1800. Now as you look at this room unlike downstairs in the house of representatives the second flooofsenate a lot more originas far as the things in the building go we have we have the setting for 32 senators. We start with just of course 26 representing 13 states. And as each new state, vermont. Into the union. Youll add two new senators. So up to the 32. Now, when they leave for washington 32 senators wld go the room would turn into a courtroom eventually actually it the United States federal distri the 19th century they dont necessarily need the stuff thats here so desks kind of go away. We dont know what happened to them these are sort of our best guess but chairs always need so when the mid 1800s when people start actually thinking about American History we do so much of today they started saying we need to co hall. Somebody says, well, we got a bunch these chairs, a couple dozen chairs, and at some point somebody starts to think maybe they were the chairs for the continentacongress. So they stuck them in the room but of course they were the chairs for the federal. But either way, these chairs were displayed in Independence Hall for a long when actually are restoring Congress Hall the old us capitol to look as it would have weem actually the majority were in the house based on just a simple proportion, but a couple of them were marked senate. A couple of them had bits of different colored upholstery. We were able to figure with some where the senate they a different color one in the house. So some of these probably in the house we said, well, lets put them all in the Senate Chamber so chamber with 29 of the 32 chairs being original, either for the house or senate, but original. The eagle on the ceiling is were not 100 sure the date on that. The one thing i can tell you is theyre 15 stars above it. So its somewhere after the 15th state enters union. We dont know exactly when may never know exactly when. That was painted, but it is sort of an artistic rendering of the seal of the United States. The seal was another thing created here in philadelphia, actually, by theal congress and Independence Hall in 1782, something that theyd worked off and on throughout the revolutionary war, the different committees, and kept changing little bit here and a little bit there until they finally worked out the final version of the seal. We have a carpet on the floor that is a reproduction of the original carpet, the original more than likely went to washington when they moved. But whatever happened to it, its long. We dont know what happened to thete carpet, but it was made specifically the room here and there was enough written description of exactly it was that enabled us to sort of recreate the carpet and it would have also featured the seal of the United States. But it would have been encircled by the original stat as a chain, which was actually pretty common motif of the time. You know, of chaining the states together to create this bigger thing. Thats e states of ours. So so a lot of interesting symbols, you know, whether for the states themselves, for the United States, again, have their roots here in philadelphia the one original desk. We still is the secretarys desk. And then the Vice President would sit the back of the room. And thats another interesting part of our story. The Vice President , which going to start with john adams and then hell be succeeded by Thomas Jefferson. They would actually be here a good bit of the time, probably a lot more so than the Vice President would be there today. Today, the president can literally sit in the senate any day they want, but early on, adams they didnt really want him talking. So could just sit there and run the meetings, which left him very disappointed. E of the hes the first, but certainly not the last Vice President to complain about the limitations of that job. He is allowed to vote only to break tie, ai that carries the years. So if theres a tie vote, the president is always the tiebreaker. So any big day, any big vote, the Vice President will be there and other than that, Vice President , you know, john adams would find he was kind of stuck here in philadelphia, running a bu of guys who wouldnt let him talk and would find it very dissatisfying. And, of course, for Thomas Jefferson, when hes Vice President , his opponent ishe president. So he doesnt even agree with a lot of the policies. He has to sort of be part of the executive. So it was a very difficult si create aiding the system where were going to elect president and Vice President a little bit more carefully because rather than the Electoral College voting n, thes being president , the guy gets the second most being Vice President. We would create a system where there was a candite, a candidate for Vice President making. It much more clear and thats the 12th amendment. And the real emphasis impetus to that is not the Adams Jefferson election in 1800, which is when theyre packing up and moving to washington d. C. So theres no one election day in those days, but start meeting in the new capital december of 1800. Theyre leaving philadelphia that summer and in the midst of this, weuajre electing adams versus jefferson. But the two sides have learned their lesson. So they said, well, well both run two guys, but again, you cant specify which is which. So when jefferson wins the election, technically he ties his own Vice President ial candidate, burr, whod been a senator here from new york. And, of course, burr and jefferson. And then being tied means the constitution. The election goes to the house of representatives. So the first big thing we do in our new capital is that basically the housofrepresentate new president and they have to vote more than 30 times before the tie can be broken. So again, now youre saying, okay weve learned ourlets it. So the 12th amendment comes along to finally straighten the way of electing a president. But again, lo days and theyre managing to find out what doesnt work, which isnt much, and find out that most of that constitution does. So were ablek at a room thats much smaller than the senate today. But the senators sat here pretty much do the same things as the senators in washington today. ei■8uogood morning everyone on f of both the miller and the university of Virginia Press welcome to todays im steve cohen. I am a nonresident senior fellow with the miller center, the schor