When washington burned tells the often forgotten story of august 24th, 1814, when the British Forces captured washington and threatened the survival of our young nation. Perhaps no single day in United States history was as threatening to the survival our nation as that when the British Forces captured washington. This unique moment have significantly altered nations path forward. But the event and the reasons it happened are little. Remember and little discussed, which is why were so to have dr. Watson here to talk with us. When washington burned narrates the British Campaign and the american missteps that led to the fall of the capital city, but also tells the redeeming story of courageous young clerks and a bold first lady who risked lives to save priceless documents, including the United States constitution. So who is dr. Watson . He was born in harrisburg, attended schools in nearby hershey, educated at virginia tech, where he was a member of the football hall and the track teams. He resides now in boca with with his children, alexander and isabella. He is a distinguished professor of American History. Assistant director of the center for citizenship and civility at lynn university. And we are honored to have Award Winning author, professor, historian he is an analyst called upon by many media outlets. He may look vaguely familiar to you because. Youve seen him on cspan. Youve seen on msnbc. Youve seen him on cnn. The new york times, usa today. But today, you have the opportunity to him questions directly for those of you in the audience, for those of you who are online. You can send your questions through the q a and discussion today is going be led by our distinguished director of scholarship samuel holliday. And sam has become a real dr. Watson aficionado. He has read all of all of dr. Watsons books. He has him before and. So today we are going to have him conduct the conversation once dr. Watson tells us the story that should know. So you will a change in this chair. Pay no attention to that, because you should be looking at dr. Watson, who will be speaking now. Thank you for being with us. You, madam chair. Pleasure. And thanks, everybody, for joining us in person virtually. Its a pleasure. Be at the Capital Historical Society. I watch a lot of the programs. Theyre fantastic. They do very important work. Since january six, we all realize important work. And ive had the great pleasure of having sam interview me several over the years, virtually. But this is our first in person. So im excited about that. And as a history nerd and somebody who loves the city, i taught briefly at georgetown, i come here all the time, love the city. My both kids went to school in the city, my favorite city in the us. So im delighted to be back. So thank you. Absolutely. Just one second while we get reset here, everyone and i should clarify one brief, very flattering remark jane made thats not quite. Robert is prolific and has written 45 books. Im hoping to cut through all of them. Ive every one of his that ive read. Well, i helped sam to get a good nap from time to time when reads my books so always delightful. Its always delightful. Well, lets talk about the war of 1812. Robert, this is sometimes seen as an overlooked conflict in American History. I wonder if you can start by what drew you to write about this a couple of things. So im always attracted to the stories we think we know and the stories we get wrong, the stories that are forgotten. And the war of 1812 is kind of the middle child, if you will, sandwiched between the revolution and the civil war. So everybodys drawn to those momentous conflicts. Also, the other thing that attracted me to it, its just a crazy war. Its as larry, moe and curly ran the war, my favorite president , harry, called the war of 1812, quote unquote, the silliest war we ever fought. It was fought for an honorable reason. And some really decide honorable reasons, which is why, especially if we think of the Political Climate today, it doesnt a lot of textbooks, the honorable and precedent. So britain is fighting a continent to wide war with napoleon arguably historians would say napoleon had the best army, but britain the best navy. So one of the ways britains going to beat the is to blockade the entire coast. No trade out, no trade in, no movement of soldiers in order to do that, they need a big navy. They didnt have enough sailors. Some of the best sailors in the are new englanders fishermen merchant so they literally would stop american ships with a warship a ship and press them with a press gang. They would show up on board at musket point and say, welcome to the british navy. We dont have an accurate number based on surviving documents and a lot of work. I estimate that in the early 1800s, up to war of 1812, 12,000 americans were pressed into service in the british. So thats a reason to perhaps fight a war. Theres many just real quickly and passing as southerners wanted to expand slavery maybe to canada throughout the southwest maybe mexico maybe cuba. The war was cover for that. Also there were those who westward expansionist manifest destiny folks they to mark the end of the indigenous population on this continent. So really heinous reasons is why it typically doesnt make the textbooks. So thats what drew me to the war. Sure. Absolutely. A couple of quick thoughts as were Getting Started with that. First, i love harry truman and theres a good i liked you a lot, sam. This is this is a good one. The more i saw robert, theres a great quote. When harry truman met a fred swingle, who some of you may know was the founder of the us capitol Historical Society. He is said to have grabbed him by the lapels and shook him a little and said, look here young, you got to know history. If youre to be a good citizen. And so one that has no particular affection for us. One of harrys favorite quotes, which im friends with trumans oldest client, grandson clifton, and i had him sign his books this truman used to say, quote unquote, the only thing new in this world is the history you havent read, which as an historian, i we, you and i call to action. Absolutely. And then just if youll indulge a brief little sugarplum with the impress, you know, of course, thats what a terrible way to find yourself. Volun into service for the british navy. Do i recall a little bit that that was part of the quasi war with france, was it not . Yes, it was, yes. So the quasi wars, sort of our first war as a country, late 1790s. What it is is some southern and frontier war hawks. Some conservatives come to in congress. They dont want to repay the french and of course, france lafayette and others. Right rochambeau, the grass really helped us win the revolutionary. So by not repaying france, france says, okay, were just going to stop american ships and take everything until. We get the satisfactory. So it was a naval war lasted almost two years. It was a huge for us. We capture a cinque you know something on the order of 200 french ships, we lose maybe three or four, but not the french. They run into rocks on unchartered. So its a decisive and quick victory which i felt undermined readiness for the war of 1812. We were overconfident. We thought, look what we can do. We can win just on the seas. Our navy at the time probably had six brigs. And of course, were tangling britain. So yeah, absolutely. And then i know from your some of your research here that and this is of particular interest, a Capital Historical Society that there was a bit of a role to be played in the build up to the war of 1812 by a midterm election. Sure. Change in congress. Could you tease that out a little . 1810. Yeah, the way youre spot on as usual. So 1810 is the midterm before war in 1810, the clay calhoun i think some of the most overrated people in American History. Vicious, compulsive liars, narcissist, violent. They come to power. And like this, these freshmen are leading the house and, senate, and they listen to the senior. They dont play by the rules of civility and the protocol is established. They distrust, they disrespect the revolutionary generation. They themselves dont have military experience. They disrespect that great revolutionary generation. And its really their thumping of the chest that drives us pounding drums that drives us into a war we were not ready to fight, that didnt need to be fought. And we were not prepared in any way ironically, those same once the war starts, they vote against a lot of the budget measures to provide our soldiers with the equipment. So, for example, of the armies that was ordered to invade, we had a 5 to 1 advantage numerically. Plus the army goes, canada turns into winter. They dont have winter clothing. They run out of ammunition because those same hawks then didnt want an active role for government to undercut the. Yeah. So elections have consequences in lots of ways. Absolutely a real, you know a real by for United States capitol Historical Society and folks who Pay Attention to civics. So you mentioned that the United States wasnt really for this war can explain a little bit you know was it a strategic issue was there a lack of leadership . Was it all of the above . All of the above . Yeah, sure. So, of course, washington is a great military leader, first president , and he pushed preparedness. John adams did not serve adams sort of inherited the washington mindset. And of course, you have people running the federalist faction like who was himself a veteran and an absolute brave beast on the battlefield. Then thomas jefferson, third president in 1801 two 1809. Jefferson is leery of a strong military. He sees that as a step toward dictatorship. Jefferson pretty for eight years, does nothing but cut the military budget readiness. Some of the forts, including fort warburton is then fort washington, which were to protect the strategic potomac and protect capital city and Capitol Building. Jefferson just ignores it the ford is staffed by a drunk thats the garrison and the artillery is mismanaged. Some of the guns cannons dont have a i a firing platform. And then madison comes into office and madison is the heir apparent to jefferson sort of his disciple the way hamilton was washingtons. So madison continues so by 1812 our Standing Army is a couple of thousand poorly trained folks without adequate weaponry or artillery. Our navy a mismatch, our along the coast doesnt have firing platforms, doesnt have cannonballs. We are utterly unprepared. Embarrassingly, its shocker. When you look at it, its really astounding to think about it, especially on the heels perhaps until your to your point, the overconfident of the quasi war experience versus what comes next. Now, you mentioned madison. Hes president during this. I think a lot of folks when they think of james madison, think of author of the constitution, they think of a founder extraordinaire. Yeah. But i think in your book and in some of your research, there is a difference. Madison, the founder and madison, the chief executive, can you get into that a little bit . Couldnt more. Thank you for that. Thats thats id love to talk about it madison, a great founding father great framer. No question. You know, madison was brilliant. I think the word genius is overused today. Kanye is not a genius. You know, tom cruises acting is not genius. James madison was extraordinary even during the debates, madison and hamilton, when the framers who were just an extraordinary gift of intellectuals, if they had a question about locke or montas or aristotle, they would look to madison. Hamilton. You just know they read this stuff in latin and greek. They knew what. But madison, the chief executive, not so much madison was our smallest president. Five foot four, weighed about a buck so what they called him the great little madison. Yeah, yeah. One joke about madison was given extraordinary intellect and diminutive stature was so much mind, so little. What they said about madison. A great intellect, but not a strong chief executive. He was around by the claes calhouns, the southern frontier war hawks. So real. And i think i have the great honor of being one of that small Group Historians that they ask every two or three years to rank the president s. We take that very seriously. Im im in, you know, hallowed company, frankly. But always argued that madison is one of the most overrated president s. I just dont think he deserves. I think quite honestly his sort of a little bit above rating is sort of a thank you for being such a great framer but of course if this war ended the way it was going, madison would have been impeached. He would be remembered as the president that lost the united and just tripped over throughout the war. Quick example of his war, secretary truman, the name to defense after world two guy name armstrong easily one of the most incompetent cabinet members in the british are landing and theyre in the chesapeake theres on the potomac there in eastern of maryland and armstrongs told to do something about says theyll never attack us. Theres nothing to worry about and its a an armada. Warships led by a guy named coburn who was a vicious monster who wanted revenge. Yet armstrong repeatedly, even madison tells armstrong multiple times readiness and armstrong nothing but madison. The buck stops here, as truman would say. Madison removing its not until after this mess before madison removes him. He keeps in office in competent generals, incompetent cabinet members, which, you know, the president , you know, the first way i think we can really assess president is their cabinet choice, whether experience diversity, you know, friends geographic, whatever it tells us. I think a little bit about their agenda, who they are, who they surround themselves with. And in that case, madison deserves, very low grade a very low grade. Yeah. And conversely, where the American Forces are led by a secretary of war whos really incompetent and and at times insubordinate, the british have a real crack team coming here to take on the United States. Is that correct they do command and the british sail over 4500 men. Thats not a large army in european standards, but for this continent, thats a massive force. Moreover, its not just any army. Today we would call them special forces. This is the army that beat napoleon. So these guys are seasoned. Theyre the best of the best. They also send over a general named robert ross, who is a gentleman, military, brave, tough its hard to say enough about this guy. And they also send over admiral coburn, whos the vicious monster, are like a raging so a contrast. Youve got someone that wants to kill everybody and then ross wants to fight a gentlemanly war. And its concerned about do we want to be the barbarians at the gate . Do we to be the army that that burns the the library of alexander or from antiquity or you know. So youve this but the one thing we can say about ross and coburn is they were the best of the best, the best. And theyre going against what militia groups that, you know, mismatched uniforms. So yeah. So were lucky it wasnt even worse. Absolutely. So the war gets underway and as sure, a lot of folks in the room know, but sometimes you argue its a misnomer to call it the war of 1812 because it goes on for a couple of years and war fought for two and a half years name for one go figure the war technically ends on christmas 1814 with the treaty of ghent in europe. However primitive, communication, rudimentary transportation have to sail. Weather was bad. We dont find out for weeks so that war we say the United States it ended on january 8th, 1850. Thats when andy jackson won the battle of new orleans with a 3000 wooden frontiersman against 13,000 british regulars. And he worked them. So that allowed us to end war with a great victory and all all said and told after two and a half years, it was a glorious tie. And remained the same for sure. Oh, gosh. And so one of the big chapter or one of the big episodes that people who start to into the story of the war of 1812 and beyond talk about or look to when theyre trying to make sense of it all, is the burning of york and in as a predicate for the burning of washington can you tell us a bit more about that whole desert im glad you brought that up i find a lot of people will say, you know, why did the british burn washington dc . It was unprovoked. It was unnecessary. Well, a year earlier, we burned their capital, york, which is today toronto. So what happened . And not only that, the british did not private private residences. We put women children and the elderly out on the streets. We ourselves like vikings, quite frankly. So in 1812 and 1813, we lose battle after battle after battle, you know, 5 to 1, 10 to 1 advantage, one. We put a massive army in. Detroit fought detroit under, an incompetent general named paul general paul. And hall has a big army, and hes going to march into canada from what was then considered wild, wild west. In a pincer move, an army coming up from the st lawrence. Lawrence to give you an idea of how inept we were, haul marches, this major the british have a handful indian allies, a handful of local canadians and a handful of british who were basically drunk, 24 seven because theyre stuck in canada, but they have two secret weapons. General isaac brock i think one of the toughest badass generals in history, brilliant and brock is saying, why arent i in europe, why am i stuck here . And to come to the indian ally brock and to come to end up a bromance to comes was big strong smart. He had been in multiple indian nations. He spoke many languages. He had a grand vision charismatic brock takes off this metal plate of honor. He gets to comes to wears it around his neck that comes to takes off that what he wears. And brock puts that on his uniform. The british are aghast because its not regulation but so halls marching on brock at the company and they have just a few men so what they do is hall sends out an advance party. This leads to the 1830. He sends out an advance party and hall is a nightmare. Hes scared to death of indians him so advance party is carrying instructions from hall brock gets to come to his warriors to capture the advance party. Brock reads the letters. Hes scared to death about being scalped so what they is brock orders every man killed one they scalp dead put them all over the one guy and send his body back to the fort hall gets this and a sister comes coming for you hallmark is his whole army back into the fort brock and that comes to race with the few warriors surround the fort at night and light fires and they yell in the woods all night long. Hall thinks thousands of them coming for him and morning he walks out the parley with brock brock basically says to him, tecumseh is going to eat you. I cannot hold him back. And of course, i imagined to come sick like, you know, horse the entire fort in that whole territory to no one. So in other words, embarrassment after embarrassment by 1813, were ready for victory, we finally find the right general, an explorer kind of a lewis and clark guy named pike, who found a mountain in colorado zebulon pike, a big, tough guy, frontiersman. He leads a massive to york, toronto and under pike. Were going to win, but pikes also a gentleman. Were going to win the war. The right, not win the war and lose the peace. We annihilate the british at the fort york. However as zebulon pike interrogating one of the british soldiers and saying, look, surrender now and ill spare the city. You have my word. As an honorable gentleman and a cannonball hits the arms depot in the fort, blows it up. More men die from the explosion than that. It knocks trees over. It knocks the walls of the fort. It sends a rock described by the and the us army the size of a harpsichord, and it lands on zebulon pikes head squishes and flat with zebulon pike dead, underpaid, underequipped, angry soldiers, a uniform. They go nuts. They rape, pillage, burn and destroy york. Theres payback coming. And a year later, chickens come home to roost and lets lets get into that. Lets get to the heart. The story that folks are here to hear about and folks are listening to historians, the background takes a half an hour or so. All right. Look, we cant help ourselves. Lets talk about it. So what happened . So the british are angry, understandably, about the burning of york. And so how do they how do they get to this point . Do they get to washington to to burn it down . So were lucky british have their hands full with napoleon. America is sort of a pesky. So well with america later were beating them even though weve got just a few men a few canadians and a few indians native allies. So once napoleons put down in 1814, they sail across the atlantic with a flotilla and. Its a three pronged invasion. Theyre coming down from the north to New York Lake champlain, around vermont. Theyre coming up in the south. New orleans. But the main prong right in the gut the heartland, theyre going to hit the and thats ross and his army. So they land on the Eastern Shore of, maryland. Coburn is there first with his navy sailing around the potomac. The looking for navigable. He realizes washington is a location. Lots of waterways, natural ports, rivers could and the capitals undefended so they land this in the Eastern Shore of maryland but the kicker is they have to targets and theyre not sure one theyre going to hit baltimore or washington. Coburn and ross leaned toward baltimore. Far more important city strategically, washington, d. C. , is not the magna Jefferson City that were in today. Its a cultural backwater, quite frankly. Was the punchline to jokes at the time. There are countless and i quote him in this book and another book i wrote, european diplomats would Say Something like, am my washington posting. Thank goodness i was in know timbuktu first. So i was ready to go to washington but so baltimore has fort mchenry which is a powerful fort lot of our powder weaponry that we need to fight the war. The baltimore our privateers are there a privateer is like a government sanctioned pirate and we dont have much of a navy. So these pirates would just harass british ships and, much bigger population base. So theyre going to start marching and sail up the potomac. And the decision is not made while theyre marching. Once they get to the fork as to which way to go. So thats how they get. And theyre still debating which is going to be the target. Absolutely. And reminds me of my favorite other books of yours is George Washingtons final battle about the effort to create washington, d. C. And it takes a long time for that plan for the city to come to fruition. So it makes perfect sense it took ten years to build it and years and years to for it to become the city that we know and love absolutely. So i think it makes some sense that its know a little yeah, a little less enticing, but they do make that decision and thanks for plugging the book of course absolutely wonderful stuff but so they make the decision theyve reached that fork in the proverbial road and they decide to go to washington. What happens next so they decide to go to washington. The debate between ross and coburn, this its too easy. In fact, ross says to leading us into a trap. However, all the military things that youre any your first day at west point this is what you learn you know you fell trees across the road you have skirmishes go out harass them you monitor the army, you flood, you know where you blow up a bridge, you burn a bridge. You know anything to delay the army . None. Thats done. So ross is thinking, cant be this incompetent. Incompetent. Its got to be a trap. So theyre hesitant. Second problem, they dont have a lot of artillery. So if a massive American Army comes, theyre out in the infantry, very men on horse, a handful of cannons or so. And they dont have it once they reach that fork. The navy isnt there. You know, if we try to hit them on the march on the coast, the british warships with big naval guns could destroy anything. So its. Oh, so ross says three days rations. Were going to quick and were going to go to washington. So theyre debating theres actually point where ross sends a loot and coburn, a lieutenant named scott, back to the british flagship saying, okay, were here, no sign of the americans were good orders. And the orders come out youre call scott would write his memoirs. I had a chance read all of them theyre available and he says that all night long, ross and coburn debated finally in the morning. Its okay lets do were going to washington and the army let out a big cheer and they marched to washington. There was a river and one narrow bridge and way in a town called bladensburg in maryland that was in the way absence. And so tell us battle of bladensburg i see knowing glances from some of our audience folks who are from the area or have followed this history. But tell about the battle of bladensburg and some of the unique features of that included before do off camera. Sam and i are friendly and we are talking about the the curious marker of my monument to the on the shore. Im glad you brought it up. Theres a a bit of fun to be had theres a new fairly new within the last decade or so memorial out at bladensburg, maryland, which features an inscription across top on undaunted in battle which as robert can tell us here in a minute might not be the best description of that particular encounter. Its not. Yeah. So. So ross is marching with 4500 men. The problem for ross its an exceptionally hot anybody knows washingtons a great place but in august the humidity is im south florida and i think the humidity is usually worse here. But at any rate, not today. But so rosss main concern is fresh water, more uniform heat and humidity. So hes out with maybe 1500 men. The rest of the army is alongside the road, trying to catch up. He gets to bladensburg. We have about 6500 men on one side of the river with bridge. You could probably hold an army at a bridge back with 75 men. Right, because its choking point as you cross the bridge. So ross is concerned hes taking a look at it. They test it by having one force race across the bridge and we literally mow them down. I mean, embarrassing. Theres nothing the british can do they pull back and regroup. Ross looks at our army and. He says, wait a minute. All the clothing is mismatched. Theyre not regulars. These are militia. These are farmers and clerks. They dont have the same kind of muskets. Their positions are terrible, not in military formation. They havent picked the right ground, their artillery isnt. And ross says these are so he fires congreve rockets thats like a firework show a weapon of terror but not much damage and the rockets to go the british start coming over orders the men to forge the river and we cut and run. Historians dont call it the battle bladensburg. We call it the bladensburg races. Ross had line where he said the americans ran like sheep before. Dogs and he said the only reason didnt chase. He writes back to the command the only reason i didnt give chase an end. This mismatched army. My men were too hot, too too hot. And they ran so fast we actually almost. James madison, madison and his secretary of state, james monroe, who would be our fifth president , monroe and madison are behind the army one of only two times in history, a is within being shot. Hes almost, you know, step to death i mean run over by the army the army races and just skedaddle. Theres one act of great heroism by a naval commandant named joshua barney. Barneys men. Later back to washington to find this army under barney, whos tough guy. Barney says, were going to reorganize his and save the city. He finds that the ran west, north, south they were spread to the far ends of the and one was there so thats the bladensburg so after that ross embarrassingly unopposed into the capital city and as i understand the history right down maryland avenue. Yep and so they get into the city and theres a story that from where were taping this a stones throw. Absolutely. And in fact theres theres an anecdote. I dont know if you came across in your research, but that at one point an aggravating was that general rosss horse was shot. Yes. So ross enters the city with an advanced force ross, coburn, a few of coburns sailors and a few of rosss aides, very small. He announces, if you all stay in your homes, those of that are left, most people evacuated. Washington is a ghost town. If do that i you have my word as a gentleman, i will not attack civilians. I will not attack any i wont touch it. I simply am going to fly a flag. Im going to parlay with your president , which he didnt know was gone. And your generals. So as ross does this from a house theres musket fire and it hits kills one british soldier wounds some but it takes rosss horse as this is the horse that served the men in the polyphonic he brought across the atlantic as any mounted officer tell you, the horse is an extension of themselves ross is livid he lets coburn make the call coburn sends his marines after him and they burn the house down try to hunt people down one of rosss aides says they only burn that one house. Coburns aide said they burn to so make the decision so that changes now coburn who wants to burn everything . Ross was holding a back. Ross undoes the muzzle, so they marched to the capitol let slip. The dogs. Yeah. And let the dogs of war loose so the capitol. Then white house. Then they would hit the treasury war and state departments. We lose our naval shipyard, which a real loss. Although we burned it that denied the british from getting it the capitol theyre blown away with the building you have ive read numerous diaries from british soldiers some didnt want to burn it because it was such a glorious building. Others thought the irony of us claiming to be a republican at democracy, having such a monarchical structure, they noticed the irony of it. I burn. So what they did is they entered the building, looted, and they broke all the doorframe and desks. So they made bonfires in the building, busted the windows out, shot rockets in through the windows rockets on the roof. Congress rockets, however the fire wasnt that bad, but happened to be really windy. A storm was and a like one that was laid after like summer thunderstorms. The winds whipped the flames and pretty soon it was it was a charnel house of death burning. And yeah, then they went to the white house. Dolley madison had prepared a grand dinner for 40, had the table set, the food was ready, anticipating a glorious victory and bladensburg the british walked in and enjoyed madisons meal. They coburn had fun with dolley and james expense coburn had a number of jokes about height. He had jokes about the size of his bottom, and they stole a number artifacts, enjoyed a dinner and then burned the white house and then went through the city burning things. So yeah. And the some of the things that were lost besides, the furniture and a lot of the Structural Integrity of these hard fought structures. You know, the detail in your other book how difficult it was to build this capital city from scratch besides the structural damage. Understand there were some some terrorism real losses in terms of, you know art and artifacts no question flags captured in war. There was a book sort of the book of congress kept the speaker and the speakers clerk. It was in a desk. In the capitol, but the desk was locked. Those that tried save it couldnt get in the desk. They thought about breaking it later, but they had so much to try to save. The british were so close they didnt get to it. The clerk, the library of congress was a guy named magruder and magruder was this incompetent. He was a jefferson ally who, was given the job as a political favor. So he knew nothing about his job. He was complaining about being tired. He goes to a natural warm springs spa as the british are ready. Hes not even around. Hes in the spa, literally in the hot tubs, in a hot pool. Hot. So that was one of the great losses was in the house chambers where the speaker sat, was a great cold eagle, massive, which was made in europe and a magnificent clock and. Even the british soldiers were hesitant to destroy it. It was such a magnificent artifact. But that that was lost. So we lost artifacts, art books, library of congress, jeffersons collection was burned entirely. You imagine with winds whipping through the windows and the library of congress was in the capitol at the time you can see it your tour all that was lost of course the carpeting just helped it so yeah just step honestly priceless losses and because Congress Book and a lot of that was burned we dont have an itemized list of everything that was lost we have a lot from the capitol, as you well know, more than i. But we dont have so that but there some things that were saved and thats one of my favorite parts of the way youve studied this story. But if we can dwell for just one more second on on the burning and wait for the well well have dessert in a second with the positive story. But before we get before we get into that, i do just want to offer a second, because i know in more recent history, i, like so many others, watched the capitol insurrection january 6th. My mind went to 1814 as the closest parallel a large Hostile Group taking. The whole building is that as a as a historian is that something that was the inspiration of my book. So during covid, you know, 2020, 2021, we had a lot of free time and werent going so i decided to write a book about the first pandemic in american, which was 1793 yellow fever, because of covid. And when i watched the attack, of course, the Capitol Building is its my favorite building in the country right . My favorite city. And my son had worked at it as a tour guide. I was at georgetown. This is you know, i was i literally sat all day like over i felt like i was kicked in the stomach and i needed to do something i couldnt drive up. By 95 from south florida fast, enough with a baseball bat to defend the capitol. So i decided id write a book about the first time it was attacked as a way of, you know, exercising those harsh feelings. So yeah that my inspiration too. And boy, that was painful. Painful to watch hate to tear that scab, but its a feeling i share and one that im grateful for. Your work in this in this regard and how we can kind of try to understand things in historical context, difficult things in historical context. We promised them we them desert, we promised them lightning and and some and some heroism. Its not all a tale of its some harsh moments, but its not entirely a tale of doom and gloom. As i understand, there are some some real standouts. Could you tell us about some of those . So, sam and i share an unknown hero from history. A guy named Stephen Pleasanton should be a household name. I dedicate my book to him. So hes a young clark 20 something working in the capital working in the library of congress. And we need all hands on. So he and other clerks are drafted he sent to bladensburg and it wearing his civilian clothes with, the musket and five rounds of ammo, five musket balls and his officer a colonel named magruder is the brother to the incompetent clerk in the Capital Library of congress. He tells magruder, im going to leave and go back to the capital magruder. Youll be Court Martial. Im leaving youll be Court Martialed. This goes on for a day and a half. Ive got to leave. Ive got amazingly and thank goodness magruder did in Court Martial and he finally says leave he literally tired him out why does he rush back to the capitol to save the constitution the declaration of independence the bill of rights. George personal artifacts and our national treasures. He races back. He runs into armstrong the secretary of war who reprimands him. Dont say that stuff. Nothings going to happen. As the british are marching from blades berg about six miles away he ignores armstrong and threatens him. And armstrong leaves. He continues a couple of problems. He sees literally making out of materials satchels carry this and no carriages no because everybody had fled outside of the city he finds a you know those two wheeled oxcart things and and a cow so hes like boom boom, you know back to the cap. He loads everything up a a former slave who was a aide, helps him. And one other person. So these three guys run around the building and everybodys listening to pleasanton who, by the way, is junior clerk. They get a senior guy, hes saying, save this, but not he has to decide what he can save in a moments notice. He decides what in American History is in the National Archives and the Historical Society and in the capital, they load it up. Hes going down road, the wheel falls off ship, fortunately finds a carpenter shop. Nobodys there. He pilfer fixes the wheel. Good thing wasnt there. I couldnt fix the wheel. I would have packed me all that all out of the city. But while leaving he looks the other road and sees a cloud dust as far as the eye can see, thousands of boots and a dry dirt road at sunset are kicking it up. So hes meandering down one road as ross is marching in. He rides all night, goes to each, decides on one location by the potomac, a foundry where they make cannons. He says, you know, if i put it there, the british are liable to destroy this. So after all that he turns around and he goes all the way into virginia. He hides it in barn and a little town of these population. 23, the mayor is the sheriff also runs the local boardinghouse so he it gives the mayor literally locks it in the barn pleasants in falls for one of these 15 hours because hes been up and leaves it there for weeks and theyre the nations treasures. Once he believes the are gone and down in new orleans and he goes back and saves it. Pleasanton spent his whole life working a clerk in the capitol in the library of congress. His goal was to be promoted. We never promoted it. He lived it, spent his whole career and whole life, promoted, unappreciated. We forgot name Stephen Pleasanton, everyone stephen. So and so we do Small Service to his great in recognition of his his Great Service by telling that story and i hope everyone here is as touched by that as i am when i first heard reports one one surviving likeness of later in life so that when he was his twenties. So i put that in the book just because you always want to put a face to the story. So absolutely absolutely. And so as we talk about this preservation of documents and the preservation treasures, i know one of the more famous stories that im sure is on some folks mind here is Dolley Madison in the george portrait. And tell us a little bit about the great Dolley Madison, the first lady, the hostess with, the most. This is the greatest hostess in American History. They called her parties the crush or the squeeze is because so many people wanted to go to them. They called her queen dolley. Dolley madison was a she was talkative, charismatic, political, just remarkable in all ways. She sometimes would wear purple like a bonnet with peacock plumes. You know, doesnt every family have one aunt like that . Right she was over it. She wore cleavage, revealing dresses, too much makeup, drank, chewed snuff. She was mae west before mae west. Okay. And my on campus would go, who . Everything but the boer. So dollys back. The capitol. Madison left 100 men and a colonel to surround the building. She looks out the window and they run. Shes livid. Shes furious. She writes to a half sister, saying, if the ladies of washington and i had enough cannons, wed roll one out of every window the building and defend it. Shes back there with the young slave who is a servant to madison, teenager and a maid. And then the butler french john. And she climbs to the roof. And according to her writing and with the spyglass, shes british coming in and shes everybody for retreating. Shes so outraged at her cowardice. Before she leaves, however, two men arrive with a wagon she orders the Gilbert Stuart portrait of George Washington and black with his hand out. You know, you know, monstrous portrait. Priceless she orders it saved. She wont let them tear. Cut it out. You break the frame, they get an ax. Break the french. You wont even let them roll it up. She wants it laid flat to be preserved. Now, it was a copy of the original. She didnt know what she thought it was the original. Subsequent years we found out it was a copy. I dont think it minimizes the story in the copy. Priceless. In the white house. And she gathers other precious artifacts, puts her own life in danger and leaves only is only at the 11th hour she ends up riding around for hours and hours, knowing british armies around. She could be captured caught. Madison is in a field with the army. As i said earlier he sends a rider back to fetch dolly. Hes worried shell be caught. Captured burned. And dolly to leave with a rider and sends a note back. Ive reprinted this note, i think, in three of my books. I just like it so much. She. I refuse to abandon my post, which means she had bigger cojones than the generals. Right . Is that the first time thats been said that might be the first one for us. I love it. So welcome to my last speech. She stays and saves everything which think is just so inspiring. And later, when there would be a debate, should we move the capital to, philadelphia, forever . Dollys one of the leading voices and keeping it in washington, she hosted one of her grand galas with friends of the capital, key members of congress for key votes. And she basically whines and dies, wins them all over and reminds them of the story. Now she has a letter that has survived history. Her account of this, some say, you know, were not sure if all of its apocryphal all of its my guess is its accurate later in life. She was asked to rewrite the letter because the original one so maybe it was you know the fish was this big maybe ended up being that big. I think of its accurate with the other accounts that we have. So im pretty much willing to accept most of the letter and most of that story. Salmon i just mentioned. So and you mentioned Something Else that id like to tease out as we start to wrap up the main and invite some audience participation. But you talked about the to debate an actual honest god debate over relocating the capital of the United States. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about that as part of the aftermath of the burning . Well, yeah, it was people didnt like washington. Its hard to find anybody that did, frankly, at the time. George washington died december 14, 1799. So the Great Fathers around. This never would have happened if the was there. In fact, when the british were leaving the city, one local was yelling at them, saying, you know, youre going to be curse. It said that, coburn says to we we never would have tried this if washington was still here. So in the british left they didnt the city because they didnt have enough men and they didnt have enough artillery. And ross still thinking its a trek. It cant this incompetent but storm kicked up now youre i know youre from the area dematha. We dont have tornadoes in this town right the story said two tornadoes in the worst storm they ever kicked up more british soldiers injured and killed in the storm than in the fighting. And the british unnerved if theyve never seen anything like this. This is like wizard of oz stuff, right . Never seen anything like it. One british soldier who was very, you know, conspiratorial and panicky, he said these are not tornadoes. These are the things of washington coming from heaven to get, you know. And the men were unnerved they watched a horse, one of the soldiers on the horse get blown over. So they left so anyways, there was a debate. Nobody wanted to come back to washington. The congress had a house had a vote on having a vote. Remove the capitol. You know how congressional is, right . Its like a monty python skit, right . The vote to have the vote was a tie. This is how close it was. So were talking a handful of votes now. One of the few factors that help the capital stay here besides Dolley Madison and her parties. Was in 1793. This first pandemic eviscerated philadel phia i estimate in another book of mine that it killed 10 to 20 of philadelphias population which it per capita worse than covid. So fortunately, thank goodness they respected washingtons great and they kept the capital and ironically when washington was building capital madison was not a fan. Jefferson was a thorn, washingtons heel. Jefferson made bad mouth. Everybody opposed. Jefferson did everything he could to derail it. Madison jeffersons disciple. So it would be madison and the great dolley who who pushed this to stay in this great city, and they rebuilt it. And the great architect, latrobe, french, british, french, anglo, franco, architect, really paid true to the great vision of of, you know, washington and the others. So and its through their fortitude that we get to have this conversation here today instead of in philadelphia, which would be far less fun for, of course, all due respect to my friends from of course of course. But i feel like we have i mean, gosh, i could do this for hours, but i know folks have questions and we may have some online questions as well. But lets go ahead and open up. Yes, bruce, that here might. But i think theyre going to bring up a microphone. So our friends at cspan can probably the questions in case of somebody cant hear and its a a so yeah latrobe admired though he didnt like it he admired long font the architect so he kept pretty true you know to the original idea of the city George Washington came a few times when i visited mount. I asked why did the british mount vernon . And they that the british respected George Washington so much they actually posted guards to protect it. Is that true or is that the posting of guards . Is verifiable . But they did respect washington. They did not want to burn private property. And general ross was, that proponent of win the war and not lose the peace. So we talk about something thatll get americans for a fight. You dont go up to a hornets and whack it. You dont go up and kick a sleeping. So George Washingtons mount vernon so thankfully they left what is one of my favorite structures in the country so they left that there. Sadly, the flames got to one house, one additional house burned in a city and that was a house that washington was building for himself, but never moved into it. So we lost that house. Washington when he was the capitol, to encourage people to move this backwater of bogs and fields. He bought property. So everybody wants to be georges neighbor. Im sure all the realtors were like, want live next to george right . Location, location, location so yeah, but washingtons memory was such that the british greatly respected it. Abraham lincoln had a favorite joke and historians believe that it wasnt real. He told it all the time and he told it within respect to the british, came here to fight us. So apropos to what you just said, the joke is, is that the american minister, ambassador that went to britain afterwards is is trying to make good after this the second war of independence and and britain not defeating us and the british are messing with him. Theres still sour grapes over this. So they say to him, he says, i need to go, you know, use the facilities need to use the water closet so they said oh we cant wait for you to go to the outhouse and see the water closet. We cant wait to see what you think about it. So hes thinking, whats in here . He goes out there and is a full size painting of George Washington. How disrespectful. So the minister comes back in and british diplomats say what you think and he goes, i thought it was entirely appropriate. Its nothing like the sight of washington scare the out of the british. So lincoln told that story, apropos to what you just said, but the british did respect ross washington. Absolutely. And there to our great good fortune here many years hence, 200, nine years hence, as of day and there was an army during the revolution sent under banister at tarleton, the green dragon. Anybody see that . And i apologize using his name. But mel gibson, the movie the patriot, i loved the movie, didnt like him. Do you remember dashing british guy who was his nemesis . He was supposed to be banished to tarleton, which a pretty reasonable portrayal. This guy like the devil in a gentlemans uniform and a handsome fellow. He sent to capture or kill jefferson, the paul revere of. That moment a virginian wrote in advance and got jefferson out of harms way. Jefferson didnt fight in the war just thumped his chest. Same with madison. Jefferson gets out of the way so tarleton orders if he cant get jefferson burned monticello fortunately charlton tarleton is one of these Oxford Cambridge he had a falls in love with the architect and says oh, we cant. So fortunately we had british gentlemen like roger saving mount vernon, monticello and yeah, we love to catch those lucky breaks. Are there. Yes, sir. Yes. So tell us how the war actually helps one side. Lets see how the war actually ended. So how did the war actually and so the two part is after burning washington, the british went for their main target, baltimore, and they had a two pronged attack. Ross going to come up the north fork road with the army and coburns going to sail in with the navy and baltimores done one of another incompetence. General named winder tells the people of baltimore flee run theres two Old Revolutionary war guys smith and stricker and are these really grumbly they remind me the two old guys from the muppets im not sure that a legitimate historical lecture they say were going to stay and defend the city. So what they do is they get basically boat in baltimore and they sink it where inner harbor is, right where fort mchenry. So the british cant sail in when they arrive at night, theyre going to have to target baltimore from a distance. Then they take all the lanterns out of the city, so its dark and they hang them in the woods. So the british blow up the woods. Ross is marching toward norfolk. Ross, quote unquote, i will sup supper. I will sub in baltimore tonight or in how its mine. Be careful what you say. Theyre marching and stricker know that are in. If were in a defensive posture and the british charge us untrained clerks and blacksmiths are going run. In fact, most anybody with. So we said were going to do what the british would never were going to hit them. So you have farmers with sickles and things as the british come to a narrow choke point, they pour out and attack the british and the british are dropping like flies. Its ross from the back of the line says i dont care if it rains militia you know forward so ross up chivalrous somebody him right through the heart thats the end ross the men are unnerved. That guy who saw washingtons finger starts yelling its washingtons musket, you know, the british retreat. But now we have the navy. So in september coburn launches the largest assault on fort mchenry in washington by artillery. Our garrison at 20 strength because of incompetence. Its led by a major young major in his twenties. Armistead instead of a general, the most important fort of young major armistead thinking everybody is to flee. So he asks a woman named mary. Hey, whos the betsy ross of the war . Make the largest flag ever, which is in your smithsonian museum, American History. And every visit time to washington. I visit that flag he flies that so to inspire us so the british launched this bombardment of fort mchenry to reduce it literally to rubble and before they do theres a doctor named beams. Dr. Beams, not mr. Beam, but doctor beams. Hes a scotsman who flip sides and is a spy for us as hes treating the british. Hes spying on us. So british. Coburn is livid. He wants to kill being so his men captured doctor beams, and they bring him on board. Flagship of the british armada at anchor off baltimore the hms tonic to go in an antique so what they do is theyre going to try doctor beams and kill him . Not until they make him watch what theyre going to do to baltimore. So because beams is a hero and knows folks get a young lawyer, a very handsome fellow goes to george at the time and a budding poet named Francis Scott key, and they send him on board ship to try to save doctor bees. Ky brilliantly gets letters some of the british he saved and who and said this guy saved my life so he appeals to them and in a remarkable moment of charity say okay were not going to kill you and and doctor beams but were going to make you watch the bombardment. So walk the deck and watch so all night long, Francis Scott key watches the rockets glare and the bombs bursting in air. And of course, only hope was what an five would still be there. And it was and it was and the british sail away and we win. We hope so. Thats how that ended. The war ends. The british get tired it remember the british taxpayers funded a continental wide war against napoleon for years so their coffers running empty and enough is enough. They had an embarrassed mint in canada and, a new york canadian border, a small of americans under a young general defeat. The british, a young sailor, defeats the british navy and lake never should have happened tricks him and the british walk a number of so they it ends in a whimper treaty of ghent. Borders are the same. Everythings the same so anticlimatic for sure. Excellent question. Are there some other questions, folks. Yes, jim. Just to beginning context about the war and against napoleon, was the was there any advances against the poland which permitted the british to send the two fine leaders over here . Can you talk a little about that . So the question is about the napoleon napoleonic wars and the British Campaign there. Did the british have enough advances . They could say, okay, we have napoleon control. As you know, napoleonic campaign. It was up and down the british won some lost some not enough advances to where they felt we can move people all the way across the Atlantic Ocean the poland was an existential threat to the continent, so theyre keeping best of the best there, which is why in 1812 and 1813, we managed a trip and bongo into a few defeats, but we were not at risk. The canadians, the british dont have enough men to go on the offensive. We also catch a lucky catch luck at the battle of queensland heights. Brock is the Great British general that said one of my favorites. Hes leading from the front, of course hes that kind of and tecumseh was killed at the battle of the thames not in britain and canada and of course to come you know we have you know we must ten to 20 to 1 superiority. And as the british and canadians are fleeing to comes that doesnt do he stays the fighting killed so without the consent brock and just a few men the british posed no threat to us so why send everybody over . You know well get of napoleon first, then well get rid of these. You pesky americans. So and that was so that way. Thats why it wait . The british waited until 1814 once napoleon was locked. Well, robert, this has been such a delight. Like i said, we could do this hours, but we always try to keep these programs to just about an hour. And so id like to close out with a little bit of what jane always loves to call our npr moment. And thats just a reminder that were able to do any of this work. All of this work, and bring in such wonderful, like robert through generosity of our members and supporters, the us capitol Historical Society is the 501c3 nonprofit chartered by congress. Foster and increase an informed patriotism and so its thanks to your support thanks to your being here thanks to youre watching and listening and and helping us out that were able to continue to try to meet this Important Mission again. Robert thank, you its always such a pleasure sam. My, im looking forward to that. Im a member. Go ahead and join everybody and support this way because keep up the good and important work that you do. Well, thank and likewise. I look forward to the next book in the spring when as im working on it now, the next book soon. The next book soon. Excellent. Thanks, everyone. Im the interlocutor. Im joking. And this is the author, doug. And were here to talk about the mysterious case of rudolf diesel. I wouldnt. This is amanda appeared in pt