More including charter communications. Charter is proud to be recognized with the best internet providers. And we are just getting started. Building 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. Charter communication support cspan is a public svice along with these other Television Providers. Giving you a front row seat to democracy. James o bryant the assistant secretary of state for european and Eurasian Affairs testifies on security and the black sea amid the ongoing Russia Ukraine or during a public hearing before Senate Foreign relations subcommittee could also fields questions on grain and Oil Production in the region, black sea shipping ports reconstruction of the Russia Ukraine work. This meeting of Senate Foreign relations rep subcommittee will not come toward i want to think Ranking Member senator ricketts for agreeing to hold the hearing on this very important topic. I also want to recognize the ambassador to romania in the remaining Embassy Officials who are here. In the audience i understand the dcm for georgia is planning to join so hopefully she will be able to make it soon and a recognize center duckworth who is just in romania. Thank you. Almost two years ago to the day i chaired a subcommittee hearing on the black sea region. This critical region has always been an area of interest and i first became familiar with that when i traveled to georgia in 2012. George of course was the first target of putins policies in the region. But sadly not his last. The black sea region has been a critical area of focus for Vladimir Putin as aggressive agenda and revisionist history this map which hopefully you can seat behind me shows precisely why this hearing and the efforts to focus on the black sea region are so important. In 2008 putin annexed. Because of georgette was moving towards democracy. In 2014 he illegally annexed crimea and ukrainians made their voices clear in support of membership. In 2022 when it realizes bullying tactics would not work. The black sea is critical because putin sees it in his orbit some refer to it as his leg. He sees it historically and strategically as an important part of his empire. The black sea is home to three nato nations into countries. For them the black sea as a connector. For security and economy. I saw this firsthand during a visit to romania and georgia earlier this year. As the Ukrainian Ambassador shared with me what happens in the black sea does not stay in the black sea by a weaponize in the export of ukrainian grain to the black sea not only the countries bordering the black sea but also dozens of countries in africa such as somalia and kenya and asia and other parts of the world. Countries whose Food Security depends russias actions extreme volatility and grain prices over the past year end a half which increase in costs and uncertainty for u. S. Consumers and farmers. He has upended the Global Energy market contributing to rising costs in europe and here at home. Most concerning russian attack drones have crash landed and romania and moldova risking further exhalation given romanias nato ally. Present brightness that congress a package that includes more than 60 billion for ukraine. I hope we can get this done and get ukraine what it needs. Supporting ukraine is crucial for america security and prosperity by ensuring russias war of aggression against ukraine remains a strategic failure. This is critical not just for the sake of ukraine for the sake of the black sea region but for the sake of the United States and our allies. I am pleased for assistant secretary obrien backseat strategy which is required to pursuant to language that was included in the fiscal year 2023 spending bill. I like to submit the black sea Security Strategy for the record at this time. Without objection. Thank you, so entered. Assistant secretary bryant i look forward to hearing how the strategy will be implemented in support of an action plan. However, before i turn to Ranking Member ricketts id like to make one additional point. I strongly believe we need a comprehensive interagency strategy that is why the senate nda bill this year includes a Provision Requiring just that a comprehensive interagency strategy for the black sea. I do not believe the state department can do this alone. The departments of defense and commerce among others also have critical roles and supporting our allies and partners in the region. With that ill turn to Ranking Member ricketts for his remarks. Thank you med and chair. Thank you assistant secretary and fellow nebraskan jim obrien for being here with us today. The black sea is becoming a Gravitational Center for europes future and is yet another important theater in the great competition us in the peoples republic of china. The war and ukraine is put a spotlight on the region as part of the frontline of this battle against russias aggression. Putin would like Nothing Better than to turn the black sea into a russian lake and its airspace into a nofly zone. Encouragingly recent attacks in crimea have put russias black sea fleet into retreat in the maritime dominance. So much so its not looking for two friends for a new naval base. Georgia must be unequivocal bull in its rejection of the power play into its sovereign territory. What russia is excited to weaponize food supply after withdrawal for the black Sea Green Initiative grain is once again proven to be resilience. During the western black sea into a no go area for russian warships ukraine with the help of the black seat nato allies has successfully established a humanitarian corridor art to tot russias de facto blockade. Despite these recent successes we cannot allow ourselves to be loath into complacency. Russia has failed and its goals on the battlefield, its also shown its ability to adapt. As russia looks to disrupt the corridor with mines the u. S. Must find ways to enhance the naval capabilities of a bulgarian friends to deter destructive tactics. Turkey is a native ally and gate keeper of the haunted seat but also continue to play a pivotal role in constraining russia. But turkey after pulling both sides about the conflict must make a choice if it wants to play a productive role in the region. Ultimately the black sea future hinges on russias clear defeat in ukraine. As ukraine continued this longterm plan to push russia out of crimea it should do so with unwavering american support. The Biden Administration recent decision to send attack comes was a welcome reversal after 18 months of pointlessly depriving ukraine of weapons that need to be successful. However by only sending that range that only paying lip service to the critics and sending another message of weakness to putin. While russia represents a grace and peace and stability we must also not lose focus on prc desire to spread its tentacles into the region. Ensuring prc plays no role in postwar reconstruction for ukraine. Prc would use its presence to collect intelligence on Ukrainian Foreign supplied military capabilities as well as steal intellectual properties of ukrainian companies. Only to hinder the trajectory for this should be prevented at all costs. That prcs partnership with russia is proof its efforts will never be in the interest of a region. Our black osceola and partners set a clear message to beijing predatory lending practices and malign influence have no place in the backseat. For too long the black sea region, even after russias initial invasion of ukraine and illegal annexation of crimea in 2014 has remained a low priority theater for the u. S. And nato. Recent events prove this much change. Neither direct nato nor neither nato nor the eu have a specific strategy directed to the black sea. American leadership is needed here to get the ball rolling. Assistant secretary obrien i look forward to hearing from you on ways we can better coordinate with our allies and partners in the region to deter russian and prc malign influence and aggression finally went to commend senator shaheen for her leadership on this issue im proud to support her black sea security act. Metal chair. Thank you very much senator ricketts. Thank you to our witness for participating in person in front of the committee today. Jim obrien is assistant secretary of state for europe and Eurasian Affairs. A position he began after been beingconfirmed earlier this mon. I dont think you have quite been on the job a month yet. Formerly was a Career State Department officers are to previous demonstrations of special president ial envoy. Notably mr. Obrien was a first president ial envoy for Hostage Affairs from 2015 until 2017 he helped establish the office of work for the safe return of 100 american citizens but of the course of his career at the state department is let a large and successful sanctions program vibes our peace negotiations in europe scientific environmental agreements and initiatives to investigate and prosecute persons for war crimes without mr. Obrien i will turn it over to you and thank you for joining us today. Think it madam chair Ranking Member. And its a privilege should be here i am pleased you asked me thank you for legislating that we had to put this strategy together and engaging with our partners im being as involved in pushing us to develop a strategic approach to the region. I have an excellent written statement that others wrote for me so i will submit that for the record. I want to try to talk to where we are at this moment. I think you and senator ricketts captured where we are. In the last few years ive been fortunate in government and out of in the canal that connects the danube to the black sea thats a lot of water for a guy from nebraska. [laughter] it shows us how important the black sea is this strategy was developing momentum and moving to the center of our Foreign Policy to our bulgarian friends i know i have to get to varga and up into his temple as well. I want to talk about water strategy is and how it relates to the current moment. What we are seeking is a black sea that is secure, prosperous, democratic and globally connected to markets around the world. All requires freedom of navigation the threat to this as senator ricketts said is russia is trying to cut off ukraine access to the boxee that turns the boxee into a contest for domination get several nato allies trying to choke off critical trade routes for the south caucasus, for georgia and for central asia. That is what is at stake here whats its we could read about it and im glad youre putting that strategy in the record so everyone can find the part strong diplomatic engagement are great and good allies and partners twice to build up cooperation on the black sea. We have engaged strongly in georgia as well as with the other states from the black sea we have Security Cooperation is the second element put it almost 370 million in financing for security operation with romania and bulgaria we have a Brigade Combat Team working together answer russias current threats by building surveillance capacity in romania as russia bombs on the border. But also supporting efforts by turkey, bulgaria, romania to remove the scourge of mindset three threatened navigation other elements thats just an illustration. The third element is resilience through Regional Cooperation and hear the story is just remarkable. A month ago we announced 300 million in support to the three cs initiative. The heart that is to build the cooperation along the shores of the backseat 50 million which brings grain and other commodities from central asia. Work on Energy Security routes for non russian to romania ukraine and moldova we are working on nuclear fuel as an option as well as Renewable Fuels such as offshore wind senator duckworth i know you just visited some of this elements. And finally it looks to democratic resilience as the foundation for what we are looking to do. I will talk about measures for success in a moment. But above all right now how do we measure success . Through success in ukraine. Ukraine is where putin has decided to launch his war of global revision. Just listen to him he says what he wants is a return to the sphere of influence he had at world war ii. He starts by eliminating ukraine by separating ukraines government from its global partners, its Global Markets and from its own people. The supplemental requests address all the dimension of putins offensive makes it clear we will stand with the ukrainian people as long as it takes until they beat back putin. You beat a bully before he gathers steam and that is what we are to make now its a very good bargain ukrainians are paying the bulk of the cost for their putting their lives on the line. They have destroyed half of putins army this is a good deal for america and it is important as we look to build for the future. Now i will touch on a few of the elements in which the black sea particularly is critical to getting ukraine up and running to its economy can pay its own way Going Forward in its people can thrive as a look to a future as part of europe. I will close with a note 30 years ago so young state Department Lawyer i spent a lot of time in russia and ukraine. We were designing the Assistance Program we offer the countries a simple choice, be a normal country. Make some rules but let your people be free and prosperous with last 10 years you seen ukraine has read the choice that Ronald Reagan wanted when he centered on the wall. This is about their freedom. Putin made the opposite choice and he says he wants go back to a world where moscow decides what people get to do with their futures. That is what is at stake here. The black sea is the forefront. Thunder ricketts you had exactly right. Ukraine has won a naval victory thats open the possibility of its economy returning it did that without a navy which is pretty amazing. We have to follow through on that with the strong approach the boxee. Thank you and look forward to your questions. Thank you very much. Let me just say will go into a round of questions im hopeful we can have several rounds depending on time. I would ask of people tried to stick to the five minute for each question session. Since you mentioned the navy and also ukraines work that has had a Significant Impact in destroying navy i want to start with that. The strategy of visible u. S. Nato presence in the black sea contributes to european and global security. Prior to the 2022 invasion allied nations routinely conducted naval exercises and port calls in the backseat. These help secure freedom of navigation in the waterway a measure of deterrence against russias navy. The question is, should be we seekfurther nato military pre in the black sea . How do you envision that might happen . Thank you for that madam chair. This is a constant topic with our turkish allies. Turkey controls access to the black sea for warships. It made the decision upon russias further invasion not to allow warships of a russia and other countries into the black sea as a way of reducing threats to shipping. That has been very important as a contribution to ukraine security. We talked costly whether the balance is correct and whether we have the right set of forces in the turks look at this constantly. We will keep working at it. I will note two additional points what is the importance of the local naval assets jointly, bulgaria, romania are working together on a demanding program. There also working to secure the safety of shipping in the territorial waters of their countries. That is very welcome and we support this in a variety of ways. The other that matter at sea. We seen ukraine drive off russia with use of drones and other tactics. Much of what we are providing to ukraine does go to providing real secured and the black sea region. We will keep looking for the next we have is correct. Thank you, i appreciate that. Sally the graphics are not big enough i fear. This map gives us some idea of the naval capacity the countries bordering the black sea have. As you can see turkey and russia are the only ones with submarines are listed there. And ukraine, despite only having 13 ships has been able to undermine five service combatants, 32 principal ships and six submarines there that were the black scene. Its an impressive effort. You mention the anti mining efforts and we heard that last week when senator ricketts and i met with the ambassadors to the black sea region. The importance of this anti mining efforts particularly given what the russians have done in the backseat. Can you tell us additional authorization might be needed for that to move forward in houston thats going to begin . I do not know what additional congressional authorization we need. I know we are providing support in the sum of the programs that i do not want to speculate. Let me get back to in writing on this. I think the strong support for the programs is incredibly helpful but im not sure we need a specific action at the moment. Okay but are we helping to provide resources for the program . Are making Resources Available whether its goes to that specific initiative are some of the support initiatives such as identifying where the activity should take place in that kind of work. I think we can give you a briefing on. Great, thank you. Senator ricketts. As we discussed russias president black sea Great Initiative until july when they pulled out. Up until that point million metric ton of grain and since russia has pulled out they attacked port facilities and ships damaging civilian vessels through the thousand metric tons of grain was destroyed. And as the chair said using food as a weapon and threatening not just ukraine but other countries who rely on that food supply. However as we also mentioned ukraine has been very successful in driving off the black sea fleet they have had to retreat to the eastern part of the black sea. That open up that corridor which now the russians are trying to mine to interfere with that. This humanitarian corridor has been open at one point you suggested the success of the corridor along with insurers raising rates in moscow costs going up might change do you believe russia is considering joining that . It would only be lifting the sanctions they already demanded the sanctions be lifted on what is your take our russia standing right now . What such a great question. I will try to answer in two senses first i do not speculate it is clear they will do what they can to demonstrate their dominance when they have it. What they have been surprised by is since july ukraine has continued it export and has driven back russian ability to restrict its exports at the same time the threat to russian ships may affect russian prices everyones insurance rates went up. Big ships were reluctant to go to the russian ports which meet russia by its own ships. This is not been the greatest moment of victory that i think president putin was briefed that it would be. They are now in a world considering a different approach. Or it leads them to say lets have an arrangement or all shipments of green are all commercial shipping are offlimits. That is something they will have to calculate for this lot of diplomatic activity to try to get them to make such a commitment. What they decide to say will be known only once they feel forced to take a position. Too that end then is it fair to say or would you agree if we were able to keep the core door open for example helping out the de mining effort that was put more pressure on russia to come to the table with regards to that. Absolutely and thats what we are working on theres actually three things we are working on with ukraine and its partners when our land routes some of which which go into poland, slovakia and hungary and onto italy. Lets do this, ukraine used expert at 6 million tons of grain a month. That was a vitally important for world of marks there were 40 or 50 of the World Food Program grain every year. About one one half tons can go out to the normal routes. Its a bit expensive. It is certainly possible will get that up and running again soon. The other land routes go through romania ultimately. The meetings i have baited with romania and bold ova are opening up to nine the Border Crossing points in building the infrastructure that will let grain flow down through plant and ultimately into the deep sea ports. The third route is along the coast. This is showing real signs of success its allowing large ships to move. And with that we have made a commitment that by the end of this month we think ukraine will be about 4 million tons of grain through those routes. And i think it can go much higher soon. Will be almost back at prewar levels than the challenge is to get the cost down and working on that as well precook some ask another question along those lines as far as the mining. We were to loan or sell mine sweepers which are purely defensive to romania or bulgaria one of the vessels check vessels was a turkish flag a vessel off the coast of romania. So perhaps turkey would have an interest. Do you think turkey would use its authority to stop if we loaned or sold minesweeper to bulgaria, romania with a stop after going to the streets . Ivory south turkish officials. They would look at a very carefully. The restriction is only for combat vessels as you say a minesweeper is arguably just a defensive item. It has two things they are testing how effectively local assets are at managing this issue. I am not sure that one ship hit a mine without there is a question if there is an while problem these are older ships very often. We had a very strong discussion turkey house has allowed nato minesweepers into the black sea since the start of russias further invasion. There is some precedent they would allow it. I think they would decide based on the situation at the time its certainly a viable conversation to have it. Thank you very much. Thank you, senator ricketts, et cetera duckworth . Think you meant your thinking secretary brian for being here today. As noted previously i did just returned from official visit to romania excellent conversation with our allies about mutual support for ukraine as well as her shared security priorities. During my discussions with romanian parliamentarians and cabinet members i was struck by the central role romania has played in conquering putins aggression. While romania does not publicize many of the specific actions they are in fact an excellent even indispensable partner. As one example remain is providing energy to its neighbors when necessary as well as buying power from ukraine when available to bolster the ukrainian economy. When he thanked her many leaders during my trip they expressed and resolve the 10 essential service for the neighbors. Can you elaborate on the porch and lexi Security Strategy that covers promoting regional Energy Security . And speak to additional opportunities to counter putins aggression in the Energy Sector . Yes. Thank you for your visit especially for highlighting the role that romania is playing. Ive been there twice as ive said. I think we could not ask for better alley and partner. The willingness to stand up in support of ukraine has been a pillar of the Global Coalition fighting russia. Romania has the deep sea ports in the capacity to help ukraine get its economy running very quickly. I will get back to your specific question. But to note i was in ukraine last week who is the president s envoy for economic recovery of ukraine. President zelenskyy talked about how important it is for his people to see some sign of Economic Life returning. It is already happening. It is amazing. Those of you who have visited some of those major cities. If we are able to provide air defense, which we are asking for more help to do. In support for their electricity grid their metals and Green Industries will start to return to life very quickly. And by one estimate which we have to check if they could double their exports through the black sea and could provide an additional 25 or more billion dollars to their gdp on about five 6 billion immediately in tax revenue for ukraine. So if we were in a path by which ukraine begins to pay for more of its costs itself, the wait for it is through the supplemental request but also to the black sea. That is how ukraines economy moves forward and romania plays a critical partner and having that happen. Now, to energy i would say theres a couple of parts to the strategy we can do a deeper briefing at some point. One part is to make sure the states have access to electricity but also to gas for nonrussian sources so greece has a unit critical partner. Bulgaria is arranging to him point i think its oh one third this year end more next year of its gas through greece into bulgaria they are working enter connectors back up into moldova, romania and ukraine as well. Romania has been providing equipment and support to moldova as an energy provider. So that kind of resilience is very important. The second pillar is also gas in the south caucus and the caspian that will begin to flow. The other piece is to build local supplies of Energy Generation very often those are renewable sources. You saw we have given it my name for offshore wind power in romania. We are also working on Nuclear Power a Small Modular Reactor in romania. The British Companies doing the same in bulgaria. We are creating these alternatives. What is significant as those replaced generations long entanglements the Russian Company that breeds corruption wherever it goes. So the strategy is to provide a local generation where we can and conductivity to bridge the gap we are putting money into both of them that we are starting to see doubledigit changes lowering dependence on russia. That is one of the measures of success for me. Thank you. When i was there i met with rope romania state Nuclear Authority had excellent, excellent meetings with them. My own home save illinois a National Leader in nuclear technology. I am running out of time. Thats my fault and i apologize. Perhaps you can respond in a written format. If you could just discuss how the u. S. Can build on current efforts to promote the two speed broader use of the technology responsively and in a way that leverages expertise we have insides like mine illinois and elsewhere in the us and how can Congress Help with that in partnership with the country like romania that is really pioneering this effort . Will put 57 million into some feasibility studies on the Energy Sector including a bit of the smr work and i know thats 200 jobs in illinois and texas. We are directly supporting jobs in the u. S. The go to supporting Energy Independence and the black sea. Thank you. Think he cetera duckworth. Senator brasa . Thank you very much better chairman thank you for being your joining us today we appreciated. A couple quick questions. In terms of the black sea maritime control nato create a very successful Baltic Air Policing mission to safeguard the integrity of the Nato Alliance member airspace. Mission could serve as a model for everest to maintain robust nato presence in the black sea. What are your views on nato establishing a black seat maritime control mission . We have a fairly robust presence we are working in romania. Particularly because russia flies right on the border when it attacks the ukrainian facilities. I know we have beefed up that element. Something and dedicated is an interesting idea ive not thought about i would have to talk with mike pentagon colleagues and come up with an answer but certainly the capability is really important one. Capacity, capability and a commitment to do as well. Thank you. In terms of the russia turkey gas hub there is a discussion of a gas hub they have a strong interest in this and gas hub in turkey. There are reports Negotiation Team russia and turkey are at a standstill due to disagreements regarding who should oversee it. Russia leaves the hub as a workaround to sell to countries who are not willing to buy directly from them. Is it also possible for russia to use the hub as a means to mask exports under sanction, russia continues to find any way it can. What you think the implications would be of the steel and through between russian turkey . I will tell you in both gas and Nuclear Power we have been in current our turkish partners to avoid longterm entanglements with russia. They have been doing this for hundreds of years with russian different sectors they are aware of the need to keep them close but more than arms length away. They think they can negotiate an arrangement that will allow them control. I think we are skeptical of that and advising them to look to other places for the gas in front of the Nuclear Power as well that we are taking what measures we can to make that more likely. I would just get next to nato strata and security, instability the black sea is incredibly important thanks to the security interest of the nine states as well as a security interest in nato. Early this month a Parliamentary Assembly announced their scent to adopt recommendations supporting, strengthening defenses from the backseat. What are the elements essential to any nato strategy to address a security the black sea . What strategy should nato use to build some resilience to the malign influence in the region . In our strategy as the state department where talk about diplomatic strategy building strong democracies, Security Cooperation build up the local capabilities in this as well as resilience so things like shared Energy Infrastructure that avoid the coercive power that russia likes to use and then economic support so they are more prosperous. Those are kind of the core elements in terms of a military capability of touched on it. You need to be on seat may be undersea, able to control the air and control from the coast cosinethe ability to threaten nl assets and port facilities that are important to commerce. Now, what weapons array and who plays what role is something nato will dig out and on. Would you talk a little bit about russias current military strength and weaknesses in the black sea region with the status is of their naval forces in the black sea . Is redeployed away from crimea over toward their major port the military side of the porch this reduces their ability to restrict others seafaring activity. It has been a really important change there are indications they are trying to mine or otherwise disrupt the shipping and that something we are watching very carefully and so far has been more that we know there try using air assets to try to control shippers again as a difficulty. That is why get in the supplemental we are looking for the week to build up air defense thats the answer to russia using aircraft to lay mines in the black sea. So all this works together as we try to build Going Forward. Click center duckworth tucked up in her recent trip to romania ive been there in the military base and number of years ago. How can we continue to support modernization and interoperability of romanians armed forces . As i mentioned we provide a substantial grant for military financing that building more interoperability. When a combat brigade ill have to check the numbers tripled the number of u. S. Forces in romania and they are a fantastic partner on the black sea region and frankly elsewhere as well we will keep it as close as we can. Think it met in german. Thank you, senator barrasso, said about holland . Rex thank you, think adventure welcome mr. Assistant secretary. I know youve covered a lot of errors i plan to focus on de mining the black sea, looking for alternative routes for ukrainian wheat through romania. I like to turn to the issue of cyber security. I know that part of the black sea Security Strategy involves addressing the malign cyber activities in the region. My state of maryland is home to Cyber Command and other agencies that are very focused on these challenges. And so i want to ask you what we are doing to try to help our friends in the area address Cyber Attacks from russia . Senator i would get a written briefing in full specifically the cyber activities. Certainly russias attempt to control the Information Space are very damaging politically as part of our program to support the democratic resilience of the states we are discussing today. We put a great deal of emphasis on countering the artificial efforts to influence the public sphere. On cybersecurity itself we work with each of our partners on hardening their systems so Critical Infrastructure and the in thekey government functions e protected from a russian attack. The specifics frankly i would rather give you in another form. I appreciate that you can assure us were very engaged at the on that front. Yes. I like to pick up on a question i think center duckworth raised regarding diversifying energy supplies, gas supplies away from russia i think she mentioned romania. President san doo of moldova just recently said that was a priority of theirs. Could you address what we could do to help mourned moldova but more broadly what we are doing the aftermath of much of europe waking up at the time of the russian invasion to say oh my god we can be just became over dependent on russian energy. This is been a remarkable defeat for putin. He thought the gas would give him the ability to control europes response to his further invasion of ukraine the prospect of cheap gas would induce people to allow him or the fear of losing all gas would cause them to cave. And that is not happened. The result is he has losses on most lucrative markets its turned a great deal of their long buildup Gas Infrastructure into a white elephant. Some of it lying under the sea but even above ground. The ukrainians report last gas pipeline carrying some gas to europe is caring much less than half the contracted amounts and they think that number will go down. So we are looking at a country whose sacrifice one of its main sources of income and a longheld and dearly prized assets so how is that happening . All the states of your take some serious economic pain to make the change in germany says its gdp suffered a fair bit for making the change. But they are buying a considerable amount of u. S. Lng they are looking to other sources for gas and then to new sources of energy as well that is also true of the states on the black sea. I mentioned earlier the greek port is a very important source of lng its almost oversubscribed. Several turkish ports have lng terminals making capacity available so gas can be provided to the state i was with the president of bulgaria it states in the region when he was completing the deal that would allow bulgaria to begin i think inexorably two thirds of their gas will be purchased from non russian sources thats quite a remarkable transition just for the one state but especially when you are looking at an entire continent looking at a different wafers gas supplies. So this is moving very quickly it will be very hard to turn it back the other way. I appreciate that. Weve been following closely the impact of the oil price gap as well that was placed on russia which seems to have had some pretty significant bite. Although the sale of energy, gas is still the primary source of revenue. But that isnt good news story you are painting and i agree the rate like the pace at which people are trying to wean himself off of russian gas is impressive. More work to do but as you say its happened relatively quickly, thank you. Thank you server. Thank you, senator van holland he think we have time for another round. Assuming senator ricketts and i are both on board. Lets do that. Most of our conversation has been around nato and what nato might do in the region. A number of the flaxseed countries in different stages of that of course. But how important is it do you think the eu to think about how to include some of the states as they are looking at the eu Eu Enlargement and why is that important for not just countries in the black sea region but for other countries that are looking toward the west and the Transatlantic Alliance . Sometimes we do talk about this with alphabet stew of organizations i think this is pretty simple. The European Union is based on four freedoms of people to move, move the goods, send capitol, sell their services. And to do it, not just in their neighborhood but across the entire union. In a state says we want to join and that they are saying we want to be open just in the way a u. S. State says we are open for interstate commerce. That allows an incredible growth of prosperity. You see it in places like romania which i think the average income is close to doubled over recent years up 70 i have that right . Sorry, i am phoning a friend of. [laughter] on so we see that as an incredible work plus it brings with it guarantees that relate to the rule of law and freedom from autocratic governments. That is what is at stake. Now, the other piece and what i care about is an american policymaker is that i want our friends to keep getting stronger because we are facing a Global Challenge here. China was to set the rules of the Global Economy and the next century. Russia kinda wants help out a bit. Chinas 1. 4 billion people have economic difficulties. Its very active in trying to shape the rules. If we are working with our friends, depending how you count it europe is about 600 billion people were almost 350 Million People. Japan, korea, all the sudden were getting close to the same size we are very wealthy societies we are used to writing rules. That becomes a place where we are in very good position to control whats happened is the rules get made for artificial intelligence, Biomedical Engineering paid all the things old drive productivity of the next couple generations. But that is what is at stake. Ukraine is 35 Million People highly educated, theory developed it sectors im kind of jealous of joanies European Union. Thats a really strong addition to the team fell and she breaks the rules live in open society based on the rule of law. That is what we are fighting for now. Thank you, i agree i hope the edu is going to look at the opportunities. Im provided expedited path for some of the countries recognizing there are reforms that sought to be done. One of the countries have not talked much about yet is georgia. Georgia is under a significant amount of pressure from russia. They share very long border with russia what are we thinking about in terms of those elections thank you for your attention to georgia. Very important. 20 of its territories occupied by russia and rushes making noises about trying to use that territory as a base for military projection. That is something we watch very closely. On georgia, as you know well 85 or 90 of the georgian people want to be a part of this rule abiding community. They want to join the eu. They want to be very close to the u. S. The question is whether a small group of businesses and others who have some political influence prefer being in a gray area. Between russia and the west. Our challenge is to point out to the people each time there is an Inflection Point some requirements for reform with her eu friends status of a candidate which opens up access set of measures georgia must take we are using our tools weve a great new ambassador in georgia she is evaluating what the best course is spent years so thank you for that we wait for the initial report of you and election Preparation Office that will tell us what the design of a Long Term Observation Mission has to be with the Georgian Authority to be sure it is free and fair as we can make it using our very excellent partners both International Organization but more importantly the georgian people i think we talked to some the same activists in there point to us is this is our country we are not leaving and is going to be a democracy until we are done i think our job is to help them have a good election. I certainly agree. I have some other questions on georgia below me turned over to senator ricketts because my time is up. Correct thank you men chair. Turkey certainly has no interest in plexi becoming a russian. Weve been getting mixed messages out of turkey with regard to the accreted war. On the one hand they have critical weapon linked to ukraine but Turkish Companies help avoid the sanctions by doing business with russia. They support ukraine entering nato yet they hold up swedens into nato until just very recently one of us put to their legislative branch. On the one hand they have helped keep russian warships out of the plexi but preventing our show warships from going into the backseat. And of course that got the opportunity here depending on how this war it works out when the war ends to be the preeminent naval force in the black seat. The black championed that obviously came to an end when russia pulled out. Where do you see the relationship between a russian turkey right now . How do you assess that relationship . Was the president thinking about how the russians are behaving . This is a chapter in centuries of competition, cooperation between turkey and russia for control of crimea, controlled the black sea, control of istanbul itself. The president is very aware that what he does not want to do is be alone with russia. So his presence in the alliance and the close cooperation with us on any number of issues around turkeys borders but also through say the western balkans is vitally important to turkey. That allows us to get a lot of work done with turkey. But it is also clear they do listen to us when we are concerned they are tilting too far and away that make them vulnerable to russian pressure we talked about energy earlier. But we would like to see is them working with us to bring sweden into nato very quickly we are working and hoping this vote will happen in the next week or two that will leave only hungary that has not ratified and we believe that will happen quickly as well. So the alliance will be strengthened turkey will have restated its commitment to working with us on the problems around its neighborhood. We do have very good working relationship. Did russia pull out of the grain deal harm that relationship or not really care . I believe again i will not characterize his emotions. He made a very strong effort to encourage russia to stay in and to return. He traveled to see president putin and met a really blunt no that could not have been a welcome. I will not state what he felt about it. I think for turkey mckay never to my answer about what success a better strategy. One measure is increased freedom of navigation around the plexi more trade, more ships, lower cost. That is the core of turkeys commercial interests its almost existential for the turkey coastline along the lexi. I suspect what he would want is an arrangement that assures all of the commercial shipping and the black sea that it can move at a low cost as possible and that is only possible if russia backs off the threat it has made to shipping around the northwestern quadrant. Is a great segue to one of the other questions as going to ask of those reports russians created this ghost leader cargo ships mooching the plexi and spaces in search of transport military items. Has there been discussions with turkey about trying to intervene in some way . These are carrying weapons if its true carrying weapons potentially create more of a danger in the black sea. In discussions on that with turkey . Yes. Russia has tried to do with and iran has tried to do the same is ghost fleet. They buy up old ships and try to run them without ever touching the places where we enforce sanctions. Now, what that means is you have this unregulated maritime presence. 500 odd ships that were aware of and thats dangerous for shipping, its dangerous for all couldnt parties and dangerous for the ports where these ships go so we publish as first step, we thought it was important to begin establishing what the parameters were regulating these ships would be so we published maritime advisory just a couple of weeks ago and already thats affecting Due Diligence and commercial practice and we need to follow up with teeth so that the people that are engaging with the ships realize they are jeopardizing the dollar, euro and commercial operations of the west. We have designated port facilities to provide ships which is exactly ammunitions or other things and that that message that we believe is starting to change including some ports including black sea and will continue to work in this vein. Its not just a specific number of ships carrying cargo, its a russian effort to build system thats outside post world war ii regulatory mechanisms and that is dangerous. It is also very costly for russia so it is eating into the money that putin has to run his war but we cant allow that kind of system to to go on you can checked. Thank you, senator, i have just a couple more questions. But while we are on turkey, i appreciate that they are taking up the ratification of swedens succession to nato but i have to say i was very disappointed to see president erdogans comments in support of hamas after the violence in the middle east so you dont need to comment on that. I just think its important to point out that as we are looking at the civilized world versus terrorist groups and those who would base their operations on destruction as we are seeing with putin in ukraine its disappointing to see those kinds of comments. Thank you for both of those comments, senator. To go back to georgia, one of the one of the issues that we heard the last time we were in gouge georgia was the chinese effort to develop port ana clia and that was concerning so can you talk about how how we plan to support georgia as theyre looking to remain resilient to chinese efforts to develop that port and invest in other ways in the country . Weve head clear that Critical Infrastructure should not belong to states that will steal or suborn the countries in which they operate and that includes port facilities like the one anaclia. There are two finalists i believe for this tender, the project is many years from completion, so theres a joint singapore and Chinese Consortium as well as western consortium. Some of it was in my prior life. The usdfc has provided very large loan to facility in the poty port that handles bulk cargo. I mentioned that earlier. The and we are working to develop these other facilities in georgia so that they are able to manage a great deal more traffic so part of it is making sure that theres competition but also that anaclia is controlled by a firm that is open to working in accordance with the rule of law and will continue to insist on that. One of the other things we heard that i thought was very positive the effort for the new eastwest Energy Corridor that would go to the black sea and would provide energy coming out of central asia into europe. Can you talk about why this would be helpful and also one of the things we heard was the real interest on the part of the georgian officials we met in having a Development Finance office in georgia . Its i know its a new agency and they are trying to decide where they are going to go but the black sea region seems to me to be right for having that kind of dfc office that would be really helpful in the long term. I will confine myself here to say that i think the dfc is incredibly valuable and i think its ability to be on sight helps identify and even create Investment Opportunities often rather than swifting through the opportunities to make it to it and where it choses to locate permanently are not my decision but i i agree the black sea is incredibly exciting. Senator, you took down your map but the states of central asia largely have been thats okay. Theyve largely been dependent on routes that run through russia or not through china. They want another way. Thats for oil and gas. Oil runs through russianbase pipeline but its also for grain, fertilizers and other items. So those have to come down on ports on the caspian. One where we would lick to have legislative support is the caspian. A couple of the literal states are iran and russia. So we have to be very careful that we are not benefiting those states but that we are creating opportunities for the other states and understanding the choices we are making would be very helpful. Once it crosses the caspian it ends up in azerbajan and either it goes to georgia or black sea or it has to go through armenia, we need an agreement to those states to turkey. Turkey has the open border with armenia and black sea. So whatever path we the take leads us to the black sea and thats why theres so much momentum behind the strategy that you legislated to have us put in place. Thank you, i agree. I think it makes a lot of sense to have to recognize how important that is as we are doing the strategy. Just because im out of time but my final comment is to go back to ukraine because in your opening remarks you talked about measuring success in the black sea by what happens in ukraine. Can you talk about why funding for ukraine in the supplemental is going to be so important . So i just say the measure of success weve touched on i think there are certain stable measurements mentioned more freedom of navigation, say more states part of the black sea trading region. So bringing central asia along is a real marker and i think its the democratic stability of the states around the black sea because thats the foundation for security nato membership, et cetera. So those things are there but then the success of ukraine, so why ukraine . This is the freedom that at least my whole lifetime we wanted to see extend across europe. Putin wants to eliminate ukraine and move from there, his officials talk about the baltics as historical russian place. They remind poland that its territory, used to be part of russia and they look at bulgaria, parts of turkey and other places as points that russia has been striving to control for hundreds of years. He wants that influence, thats what he is fighting for. So i lack at ukrainians and when i was with president zelenskyy last week and he talks about his people, they are fighting and dying for this freedom. Its right for us to stand with them. We talk sometimes carelessly about burden sharing but we are here with the greatest coalition the world has ever seen since world war ii. So we are there with a coalition. I think we are indispensable to shaping what it does and how it does and building a ruleabiding community that will stand for the next several generations. Thats something that i want to leave to my kids rather than just holding onto the reminiscence of a 1940s settlement. We have the chance to do that now and thats the moment this is the moment to do it. Thank you. Senator ricketts. I want to return to ukraine as well. As china is part of the no limit partnerships with russia but they have also tried to position to be part of a peace settle rent and therefore be part of reconstruction of ukraine as i mentioned in my opening comments having the peoples republic of china have influence on post war ukraine really goes against all of our interests. Prc companies own or operate terminals in nearly 100 commercial ports around the world and then that creates a platform for the Peoples Liberation army and creates platform to collect intelligence and infrastructure puts us in a disadvantaged in many areas. They already have a history with ukraine before the war between in 2017 they upgraded the port of odessa and through this car countless port facilities have been damaged by russia. And especially since weve seen this since they pulled out from the grand initiative. Its going to be very costly to repair and rebuild ukraine. What threats does prc involvement in ukraine and construction do you see and what does it pose to black sea security and u. S. Interests and what are we doing to check that before it becomes an issue for us . I think its a great question. You know, russia has not shown any favoritism to assets that were owned by the chinese and major facilities have been closed since the further invasion and damaged. But the important point here is whats the future of ukraine and its for the people of ukraine to the decide and theyve decided they want to be part of the western community and as a piece of that, our work with our European Partners to discuss a way forward with regard to china has been incredibly important and we see id say of convergence of used about risks that are posed by china. So as ukraine decides its who it wants investing and holding what assets. Its not 2017 anymore. Ukraine will be emerging from this war with the opportunity to set in place ownership that will be compatible with the rules of a new European Union, one that is cognizant of the risks that china poses. One where we are in active conversation about the threat thats posed in death arrangements and kind of opaque and onerous, ownership arrangements, control of data, et cetera. So all of these things will be a part of the decisionmaking and i feel pretty confident that we will be in place to to have ukraine firmly in a camp where we will be comfortable. Thatll be there choice but a major way that we shape that discussion with them is to frankly stay in the game from a financial standpoint, thats why weve asked for more than 60 billion to provide support so that ukraine can get itself back on its feet but back on its feet headed the direction we want and thats the way we address the threat from china. Would you agree that if china were to get involved in the reconstruction that would be a problem for our anticorruption efforts and bringing about western institutions to develop fully in ukraine . Yes. What more can the United States do if we agree this is a bad thing. You menaced ukraines choice which obviously is true, but what can we do of course continued investment, is there anything else that we can be doing preventing prc for taking a big role in postconstruction . You sound like youre hoping in something in particular. Stop looking for ideas. Okay. No, i think its hard to beat something with nothing and we are being we are clear with ukraine. The primary message, the last weeks visit was its time to complete the reform agenda so ukraine builds transthat we want and avoids opaque arrangement that is allows autocratic regimes to flourish. It has one of the robust Civil Societies focused on anticorruption that i have ever seen and within the administration there are many people deeply committed to seeing ukraine open modern economic architecture and being able to provide the resources that let them succeed now so that they dont have to go grasping at straws. Even the anticorruption efforts that we are doing right now helps create society is actually a barrier to china coming in and doing these deals because its the opposite of the republic of china will see. Thank you, senator, we have been summoned to go vote. Senator ricketts and for the information of everyone, the record will stay open for questions in close of business thursday. Thank you very much. This time i will close the hearing. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] cspan is your unfiltered view of government. We are funded by these Television Companies and more including cox. Extremely rare. Hi,. But friends dont have to be. This is joe. 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