Transcripts For CSPAN2 Jon 20240703

Very special event here at the Gerald R Ford president ial museum. Really proud to see all of you coming out to enjoy, i think, whats going be a very stimulating discussion about. Our home, we dont know enough about. Im gleaves. Im the executive director of the Gerald R Ford president ial foundation. My this evening is jon lauck, whos a writer and researcher hes written many books. Ive got several of them here that he and i have worked on together on, the midwest. And were going to explore that. So im welcoming you, our Live Audience and our cspan viewers everywhere. So, john, i think we ought get right into it. Please tell us about your background and you have real midwestern roots. I mean, you come by all of this honestly raised on a midwestern you know, you went to big colleges, you know, both your ph. D. In history and your law degree, and youve had quite a career in the midwest. So tell us yourself. Well, thank you. And thanks to everyone here in grand rapids for coming out tonight. Its a great pleasure to be here i i should say that i kind of live in a colony, grand rapids, in this sense. Of course, the dutch are very important to western michigan, grand rapids. But they later chain migrated to pella and then to northwest iowa. We go of course, my home or the place live now is sioux falls, which right by sioux center, orange city, iowa. Theres a big dutch enclave right next to our city and the city of sioux falls now has a dutch mayor whos a very good, very popular. And my kids go to school with lots of vans and lots of other dutch kids. So i feel right at home here tonight. But thanks again. Believes so. Yes, i grew on a midwestern farm in eastern dakota. South dakota. Its kind of a divided state. Eastern part of the states, very midwestern its kind of like iowa and, southern minnesota, the western, which more people are with. Thats kind of the pressure. The plains west, thats where the mountains are and the ranchers are. And the indian reservations, thats sort of a different place. Thats very midwestern. Thats kind of a classically think of deadwood and the black hills. But im from the eastern part of the state where most of the are and a place that used to be populated with lots of little farms. And my great grandfather others farmed 160 acre farms, corn hogs, cattle, very standard midwestern farms. And thats my dad was doing when i was born on a farm about three or four miles south of madison in south dakota. If youve ever heard of madison since were at the ford library, you may remember an old guy named senator carl mundt. I was thinking of him as i walked in here and saw a picture, gerald ford with his pipe. But old senator carl mundt was a pipe smoker, too. I think with this new book by Richard Norton smith. Maybe we can bring back pipe smoking bicycle america. Yeah, but then since i was on a farm all the farm kids went the Agricultural College in south which is south Dakota University its the land grant. And you go there and learn how to be a better farmer and so the way sdsu jackrabbits won National Football championship this year if you want to blood i feel happy theyre getting that please dont confuse them with the north Dakota State University thats a great insult where im from but so i went to the to the ag college and got very interested in history. I had a great professor of history there by the name of john e miller. And he was interested in the history of the his father was a lutheran minister, so they moved around to little towns in the midwest, in minnesota and wisconsin and illinois and kansas and he really started me thinking about the fact that not many people study the history of this region. So i decided to go to graduate school applied various but ended up at the university of because there was a guy there who studied things that i was interested in and went there got my phd in history studied farm economics wrote a dissertation about Agricultural Economics in the postwar decades. If you want to if you want a sleep aid i commend him in that dissertation that turned into a book too. You but when i was in graduate school, it just seemed like the discipline of history and the number of jobs in history was not not in good shape. So i decided to go to law school and i became a lawyer and practiced law for several years. But then this professor that i mentioned id decided he was to retire early and, Just Write Books full time and. He said, you should apply for my job. South Dakota State University and i did. And so i started becoming a history professor writing books and and that led to these books, many of which are written with the great gleaves whitney, who many of you know hes got a lot of great books himself. And you can tell why were so simpatico with our interest in history and and political philosophy. We and were just a sneak peak were cooking up a couple of more books should come out in the next next few years. Thats right well i would be remiss if i mention that we met john in 14. It was an mecosta. It was in the library, the russell kirk center, and at that time when we met, i had not heard of you prior to that and told me about all the projects and the reason johns imagination sort of captured my attention was that those of us who studied history in the eighties and in the nineties, there was a period when everything was shifting to globalization or our colleagues called it. Back then global only. And and so you know, it was it was fun to find who was actually interested in history, local history state histories because we had neglected that for decade. And when i found out that john was the one who perceived just how big the gap had become between, what midwestern studies been, state studies, geography and history had been local histories, kind of a folk village in approach to history. How it had been and the destitute that it fell into the neglect and. John, youre the one who had the imagination really to see it. Tell us about that process. Well, so i was teaching at south dakota state and if youve ever been in a History Department or an academic setting, this this may have happened to you. The a month before classes started. The chair of the History Department came in and. Oh, hey, buddy, i forgot youre supposed to teach the history of south dakota this fall. The person who was going to teach it is ill or wasnt able to make it to campus. So i scrambled around to put together course and i. I hate to reveal secrets from inside the but sometimes tons of preparation dont go into these courses. So i ive put together this course quickly as i could and did the best job i could teach in the of south dakota. But i noticed that there really was not a good book about early south dakota the settlement of the state, the great dakota boom the territory period. And so i started making notes and getting organized ended up writing a book about phase of south dakota history. And it was a book that came out under the title prairie republic and one of the things i noticed writing that book is all these people moving in to dakota. They were coming from the midwest. If you look at all. Our early governors in south dakota, theyre from indiana and michigan and wisconsin, etc. I mentioned im from the town of madison, south dakota. That was founded by immigrants who came in from wisconsin. And they thought the county they were moving into kind of looked lake mendota and madison. So they named it lake county and the name of the town, madison. And that was a very good indication of this chain migration across the midwest and so heres some a statistic that should the point in south dakota, 95 of the settler was who were americans meaning they had already lived in the united they came from the midwest. South dakota was not settled by people from alabama and mississippi and georgia they were it was settled by midwesterners. Now, their course was a big immigrant there, too. So we have lots of norwegians and germans. Luc is obviously a german name. And thats, you know, part of the immigrant groups that came from. So i wanted to say about what does it mean that all these people came in here from the midwest . Theres an old doctrine, geography. Theres a geographer named wilbur zelinsky. And he came up with the doctrine of first effective settlement, meaning the group that ends up in a place and settles that place and settlement and plants the dominant culture. Thats what the cultural dna of that place is going to be for many, many decades, maybe centuries. So i wanted to say or, explain to people what it meant. Midwesterners were moving into dakota. So i thought, well, this will be easy, will go to the library ill read some of the foundational history texts about the midwest. Ill read up on this and ill read a couple of pieces. It well, what i found was there was virtually books rely on for getting a sense of what the history of the midwest was. And i kept digging and i didnt come up with much and all of a sudden im like, you know what . This would make a good book. What happened to this field . Why did it vanish . Where did it go . And so i wrote a little book called the lost region, taught a revival of midwestern history that came out in 2013. And thats when gleaves and i met and he read this book. He was super interested in it and i was trying to revive interest in this region and you know, if youre with history at all, youll know that the history of the American South a massive field there are literally dozens and dozens of basic histories of the American South same true of the American West. The American West was booming field in the seventies and eighties. You may have heard of the western history most History Departments have a western historian and a southern historian actually, we have a article coming out in the journal middle west. Ill ill give you a sneak peek here and kind of give away the punch line for this article. But what it says is all these universities, the midwest, they tend to have someone who teaches the history of the American South and the history of the American West, but they dont have anybody who teaches about the history of the midwest where theyre planted, you know, even places like the university of michigan and big ten universities like the university, minnesota, they dont teach the history of the american midwest. So that needs to be fixed. And if we can accomplish one thing in all this work were doing believes its going to be getting someone hired in these bigger Midwestern University years to teach the history of the region that theyre a part of. This is not a crazy demand this is not a radical demand. This were not demanding a revolution or promoting revolution. This is a very simple scale reform that can easily be fixed. Maybe theres someone on the michigan board of regents who can call up the president of the university of michigan and make this happen. I dont. And also establish the journals there used to be a lot of midwestern youve been able to plumb and get a lot of research out of them. All those journals dried up. They yeah, they did. And we i should say we did create a new journal of midwestern history called middle west review, created about ten years ago when another consequence of gleaves and i meeting and this book, the lost region, was we launched the midwestern history of which gleaves very generously hosted here in grand rapids. So this is like. You know, the the place that the midwestern revival started was here in grand rapids. So you should be very proud of that. And thank is for all as making it happen. Well, the other thing then that we should cover right away is definitionally what is the midwest . Theres a lot of confusion, some amazing confusion about what the midwest. But perhaps could start by defining it in terms of the governing document that the founders left us. Now, its very interesting some people know in 87 the Us Constitution was framed. This is when all the delegates met in philadelphia over that long hot summer between may and september and then september 17th, they signed the constitution of the united at the very same time up the road in new york, the northwest ordinance was being composed. It was ratified, signed on july 13th. John talk about the significance the northwest ordinance for what is to be the midwest later becomes the northwest ordinance. And, you know, this is somebody got your j. D. At the university of minnesota. The northwest ordinance is still got the power of the law of the land. The michigan constitution quotes verbatim out of the northwest ordinance. Tell us a little about it. Well, the creation of the maine american constitution in philadelphia gets all the love attention you and it should. And its absolutely crucial American History. And i hope all this work thats being done revive interest in history and civics. The United States puts a lot of attention on the constitution. I know you have gordon wood out here. Everyone here should, go hear gordon wood talking in grand. He is the master. He is the expert on the founding of the country and the writing of the constitution. So please go hear him. But as gleave said up in new york, the Continental Congress was still meeting and they had to decide what to do with this big chunk of land that they ended up acquiring as of the american revolution, many of you probably know, many of the main battles of the american revolution. And what happened on the eastern seaboard. But theres a little known unsung of the revolution, and that is when George Rogers goes out into the west and takes this territory. That was then called the illinois country and what would become indiana. These used to be old french forts that the british end up acquiring as part of their victory in the french and indian war. While the americans take it over as part of the revolution. And so when the revolution is over and the british have signed over territory to the americans the americans have to decide how it will be governed. And this is new territory. This is separate from original colonies. You the colonies started to be organized in the 1600s and so they had colonial governments, they had colonial governors, they had colonial legislators they had kind of an infrastructure in. But for this new territory, which would be west of the appalachians, north of the ohio river. So its called the Northwest Territory, they had to make decisions how it would be organized and managed and that summer in new york, they wrote a foundational charter for this territory which michigan would be carved out of. And that charter was called the northwest. And it was even more progressive, far reaching than the federal constitution in many ways, it included very basic civil rights, habeas corpus and freedom, the press and freedom of religion. And, you know, i dont want to gloss over freedom of religion. This is absolutely crucial because some of those early. They were sort of theocracies in a way like, massachusetts, connecticut, i mean, those were run by the Puritan Church and the pearson church dominate those state arts for many years into the 19th century. I mean, they used collect taxes to pay for the peer to church in massachusetts into 1840s. But the midwest or northwest would be run differently. And there would be religious pluralism. There all these denominations could openly exercise their religion freely and into this territory you do get puritan, congregate. Thats from new england, of course, but you also get scotchirish presbyterians and you get up countries, southerners of various denominations, and you get germans moving in from pennsylvania and you get lots of immigrants who are lutherans and catholics. So you get a real mixture of people and the most diverse state in the country in. The 1840s was ohio, whereas Eastern States remained rather ethno logically homogenous. So im getting off track. Youre back to the northwest ordinance, so northwest ordinance is very progressive for time. It allows new states to be created instead of becoming colonies. The original states, new states are created. They are required to immediately set up schools and sure that the population highly literate and, but most importantly in then skip to the end the most important thing it did, which the federal constitution did do, was ban slavery. Of course, the federal constitution treat allowed slavery to continue in the south and it had notorious two thirds clause and other things protect the institution of slavery. But from the beginning in the Northwest Territory it was banned here and so it that these two sections as they used to say they didnt use the term regions two sections developed and as the 19th century went on they diverged and in separate directions with south obviously defending to the hilt. The institute of slavery and in the midwest. Many organizations forming undermine slavery. The efforts to abolish slavery. The abolitionist societies were very powerful especially in michigan as a good example, michigan and ohio had lots of these societies so it led to a completely different region than other parts of the United States. And thats why the northwest ordinance, which believes loves these of an expert on this. Hes asking questions about it, but he knows more about it than anybody but well, this is fascinating. Well come back to some of the the especially wonderful features of the northwest ordinance and the promotion of education that we were just mentioning and that Kirk Russell Kirk center a few minutes ago in School Section lake up there is right in the middle, section 16, right in middle of these townships. You had sections devoted to education, the really remarkable and this is just an illustration of how progressive the midwest was. We dont think of the midwest in world historical as being a progressive area of the world. And it was and a lot of that goes back to the wisdom of the founders. Just a footnote, you know, when you had the jeffersonian and the hamiltonians and you had john adams at amazons get together and their surrogate and they themselves contributed to what the northwest ordinance would be, isnt it interesting jefferson issued rejected slavery. The jefferson ions in this process reject it slavery for this territory but lets go to now defining the midwest we we have written or edited together a number of books you know North Country trying to figure out where the midwest sort of blends into what becomes the north interior borderlands was wonderful wonderfully fun book to work on where the midwest really leads into the great plains, where were currently finishing up another which sort of looks the east, you know, where the midwest began and sort of what David Mccullough takes up in his last great book, the which i recommend everybody to to read about the origins of sort of the midwestern and how we have a civic ethos which is much different from that in the east and in the south. So what is the midwest then and what does it become now . Ill get to that in one second. I just want to follow up on the David Mccullough comment, his last book and. I think mccullough is kind of an honorary midwest. He grew up in pittsburgh right on, the borderlands there. But think ever since he a young man, he wanted to write a book about how those two rivers come together. And pittsburgh formed the ohio river that goes down and shapes the southern boundary of ohio and indiana and illinois. So i think late in life, he he said, i been meaning to do this my whole life. And its a very special book, highly recommend it to you. And it explains lot about the northwest ordinance and its importance to the shaping of the early midwest. I would also that our or the journal i edited called middle west review, which is based at the university of south dakota. We really strive to have a wide variety of voices in. That journal, unlike some journals. And we did symposium about David Mcculloughs and six or seven experts from, many different persuasions and angles analyzed that book and its a great exercise if youre a university professor, you can assign. David mcculloughs book about early ohio then assign all these comments about the book. And ive done that. Its worked its worked great in the past. I was also going to flash this book so one gleaves, very generously hosted, that first midwestern and history conference in grand rapids in 2014. We selected some of the best lectures from that, and it became this book. University of Nebraska Press published finding a new midwestern history. And this is definitely one of the Foundation Books of the revived field. So also one quick comment on literacy and the Northwest Territory. I dont think we can exaggerate this at all. By the end of the 19th century in the midwest, you have literacy. Of 95 . In minnesota and iowa and kansas and, nebraska, etc. Thats an amazing number. And you compare that to the literacy rates in the to the monarchies of europe, etc. , where, you know, they deliberate early, tried to keep people uneducated and illiterate so they couldnt organize and and threaten their governments places in the United States like the midwest, the the red schoolhouse was, you know, five miles out in the country and this was a sign of of progress. And democratic development. And it was very much something they took pride in. And the other thing about the literacy rates is theyre one of the chapters in my book is about race. And there are certain things in early midwestern history need to be understood and tackled and talked about when it comes to discrimination and racism. However, on this question of literacy, black children in the midwest started to be educated in the 1820s and 1830s. There integrated education in the midwest east in the 1840s and 1850s, there were 120 integrated schools in ohio. By 1850. I mean, these are that most people dont know. I think most people assumed that there was discrimination and segregation in schooling throughout the 19th century, thats not accurate. It was commonplace in the midwest. Think it this way. Illiteracy was a huge problem in the American South extending way into the 20th century. There were more africanamerica kids educated and in the midwest than there were white in the American South . Thats a Pretty Amazing statistic. And it really shows the regional divergence between the midwest and the and the American South and why they were so all back to gleaves. This question about the boundaries of the midwest. So there is a very common understanding of the midwest as 12 states, ohio, indiana, michigan, illinois, wisconsin, iowa, missouri, minnesota, dakotas, kansas, nebraska. I think thats 12. But state boundaries dont tell entire story. You need to dig a little deeper. And sander off some of these edges. For example, where im from in south dakota, as mentioned to you, its a by four cated state. So west of the Missouri River, thats the plains west east of the Missouri River. Thats very midwestern. And gleaves and i were part of a book exploring this called, the interior borderlands, meaning the borderlands inside country that divide regions. If you want to think of it in technical terms the 100th meridian or, if some people think its the 90th meridian, but roughly the Missouri River divides, the dakotas, that is the divide between midwest and the west through. The dakotas now, what about the Southern Tier, the ohio river is the standard boundary separating ohio and indiana, illinois from kentucky slave, kentucky. But you could say that Southern Tier of counties in these midwestern states like illinois indiana and ohio, those are kind of southern because the southern influence over the river a little bit. Anybody ever been to caro, illinois. I mean, caro, illinois has a real southern flavor to it. You look at a map that, southern tip of illinois. Its juts way into the American South. Its further south than the capital, the confederacy. Richmond, virginia. And if you go there you that it has a definite southern flavor. I ran across an old an old memo written by a young staffer named durbin. Now hes the senator from, illinois. But back then he was a staffer. Paul simon senator paul simon of illinois, who ran newspapers in, the southern half of illinois and they were talking about how southern the the town caro is. And so the memo was written to senator simon. You get there, you know, dont act like this. Is this chicago because its not this is kind of little little kentucky. Another side note on that, if you ever read that book, barack obama, i think it was the second one about him running for president in theres a chapter in there about him running for senate from illinois and his staffers are like well, you know, youre from chicago. You know, things are a little different down in cairo. You might not be welcomed with open arms. And he went down there and did a Campaign Swing when he was running for the senate. And it went great. And it was a very festive atmosphere, very welcoming. But some of the old timers of illinois politics were saying, you know, this is this is not how it used to be. Caro. Another side note, if you have ever been, if youve been reading up on and Critical Race Theory and whiteness studies cetera well kind of the person who jet who came up with that whole idea. Rudiger his parents are from cairo, illinois. So when youre reading his books, you can get a sense of what hes talking. Hes talking about his experience in cairo, which really isnt the best of the midwest. Hes kind of got his views are kind of distorted by where he comes from theres a long interview of him in our recent issue of middle west review, which very revealing about his early days saint louis and he is saint louis and cairo. But what im getting at is the midwest. Theres a lot of sub variation. You know not all places are the same. The northern reaches of the midwest, which gleaves and i are going to be launching this book this week at the Midwestern History Association here in in grand rapids. Well, this is about the upper reaches. You know, were in here. Youve been to the u. P. Know, upper peninsula, michigan. Its different, right . I mean, this is a place of mining and forests and, shipping and lumberjacks stuff. Its not like the traditional core of corn and hogs, small town, midwest. So and one of the fun things about this field is explore, bring all these regional variations. All right on the eastern side. Theres obviously a divide where appalachia ends. You know, eastern ohio, places like that. And gleaves and i are working on a book that so well well save a bigger on that for when that comes out. I just wanted to point out that one of the authors in this book just walked into the auditorium and i ill ill leave it to you to look for this and read a delightful chapter called the exact title is, the mysterious migration of a marvelous. So good job with that. And its one of the i think the most fun chapters in all of this series of books is its a very different take. Well, weve talked about the ironic progress nativism, it seems, you know, because today the perception of the midwest is its filled with rubes, its filled its a red state sort of hick ish, you know, backward to the coast. So on the east coast, the west coast, where all the cultural is where people are finally educated. And yet, of course, the midwest, youve structured your to talk about the midwest in the long 19th century. Now historians have a way of talking about the 19th century, which sort of defies chronology, usually take it from, say, the french revolution to world war one. So thats about 120 years or so. And if you take that 19th century, which is the focus of this book, the good country, you again and again by your method in, this book that the midwest is not only farther ahead of other regions of the United States in its progressive politics and sensibilities and its ethos but its ahead of other regions some of the most advanced industrial countries the world. Its fascinating talk about a little bit about just what the midwest contributed to our world in long 19th century and then after that lets talk a little bit about what happened what happened in the 20th century, where seems to be this revolt against the midwest and the village and im setting it up so that you time now to start thinking of the questions you would like to put to john about the midwest. So if you want to take the first of the long 19 century, well, i will confess to all of you that my original intent was to simply focus on the long century. But as i got started, this book and i entered chapter five, im like, this things way too long. I already and i have so much left to cover that. I mean, i hope to do kind of a broad view history of the midwest to the present, but by time i got to 1900, i had draw the line. I do think thats a logical to draw the line. However because by the end of the 19th century, new things begin to happen. Theres a new way of of mass migration. Theres industrialization of some of these places that major cities in the midwest. And you get you the rise of airplane and mass communications, etc. So it begins to change a little bit. So a logical dividing line, but back to your question about how the midwest alp, other regions. Well, let me just bring up the question of women and womens rights, which think is a good example this and i try to go through a bunch of different in the book but we had in our journal midwest review a cover story. I think three issues ago about how the midwest and womens rights in terms of voting much earlier than other regions and then more recently. We had an issue about how the midwest was where coeducation began, meaning where women go to college and if you look back at the records of these denominational. And in ohio and michigan and other places, this is the first place that women are allowed to go to college in the 1830s and the 1840s. I remember reading this stat one day and i had to double it. I couldnt believe it because. In 1870 there were about 100 female doctors, medical doctors in the state of ohio. Now that seems like a very large number. By the end of the century, there were 500 female doctors in the state of ohio and a lot of it started with womens civic activism on the town level, where they were very involved in clubs. Clubs were, very prominent and i give some examples from various towns. A couple of in michigan in the book, but if got involved in these civic clubs, pretty soon you were involved in various social causes, that prohibition would be a big one where women were highly influential. But there are a lot of other causes that were small or geared toward the town beautification campaigns, clean up the river campaigns, build the park, build the library. I mean, women in the midwest, the tip of the spear when it comes the building of thousands of libraries, which one of the reasons the literacy rates were so high in the midwest, so a lot of people think about womens Voting Rights coming in 1920, which they on a national level, a universal level. But there were a lot of steps along the way in the midwest, women were given the right to vote in municipal elections and county elections and School Board Elections many years, many decades prior to. The 1920 decision, there were female mayors of kansas towns in the 1860s because women could run office in in municipality years and in School Boards and this is not how we think of it. We we tend to in this has to do with the northeastern of our history books. They dont talk about was going on in the Midwest Lawyers another good example women going to law school in the midwest in the 1860s and the 1870s. These were the first women lawyers anybody know and Harvard Law School was open women in 1958 years later. So this is a huge regional divide that has been lost to the mists of time because the people that tend to write our history tend to be located, the midwest and kind of overly look what happened in the interior. So i, i would commend to you these sections, the book about how life diverged between the, the midwest and the northeast and the south. And, and so that goes the segues to the next and the question that i want to put to you, because i want to give you all the opportunity to put your questions to, john, while weve got you here. So what happened . I mean, after this great progressive series of reforms in the midwest setting the pace really for the rest, the country and the world, what happened where we sort of the bloom off the bush and how did that. Well, i am still thinking about this and i want to pull together my thoughts probably in a book down the road. But one of the things that happened. Was in the 1920s some smart alec wrote an article in the nation magazine called the revolt from the village and. What he claimed in this article is that all of these out in the midwest were finally pulling back the curtain on how backward and retrograde made the region was. And he pointed Sinclair Lewis and he pointed to Edgar Lee Masters and Sherwood Anderson and f fitzgerald and people like that and i actually taught this idea in my classes on American History for many years and then one day i decided, you know, im im going to dig and peel back the layers of the onion. This revolt from the village idea. And what i decide, what i discovered was this is totally wrong all of these authors are actually specific only wrote articles or made statements condemning. This author for claiming this midwest from this revolt from the village took place. And they actually were great defenders of their home place. Now, a lot of people have this sense that Sinclair Lewis was attacked in his little town in minnesota, not really, if you read mainstream how i think it should be written his famous novel, i think hes really mostly making fun of outsiders who come in and try to change the little town at thats thats my reading it, which ive written about at length. If want to know where we of went wrong, we took a wrong turn all this my book from ragged edge from warm center to ragged edge i. I go into this in great detail from warm one or two ragged edges, a line from fitzgerald, from the great gatsby. You call. And what is fitzgerald saying with that line . Hes talking about finally leaving the craziness of manhattan and new york. Everything he saw there and going back to the warm center of the world in minnesota, where he grew up. Thats what fitzgerald was getting at. Unfortunately fitzgerald and of these other writers, their works have been twisted in ways that distorts their and i think we need to get back to the proper reading of these novels in a understanding because its its of the the great scams of history in Literary History and cultural that people have turned these books the midwest when thats thats not how they should be read. So. I think thats one thing that happened. Gleaves theres a lot of other things. I mean, the coming of mass culture in the 20th century which had a very damaging on regional culture and regional writers. I mean that that undermined the distinctiveness of the region. I think first industrialization and then painful unwinding of that deindustrialization, you know, the the growth of other regions in the country like california in 1900 where i end this book and end the book in during midwestern moment, as i call it, or this prominent period for the midwest in American History, it was the biggest region had the most people at the end of the of the end of the 18th hundreds. Michigan was bigger in population in california and of course that changed in the 20th century theres 40 Million People in california now. So we get overshadowed and that became a Cultural Center and that became where movies are made and where our culture is generated and unfortunately less of it is made in the midwest. Now even our big newspapers, which used to be cultural arbiters and, trendsetters like the chicago tribune, used to be a major powerful force. Ive been reading the new biography of gerald ford by Richard Norton smith, and he talks about the power of regional. Well, a lot of these newspaper are barely hanging on. And so they have no power to exert the cultural influence of this region like they used to. And so culture in this country tends to be, uh, tends to happen on the coasts in new york and l. A. What im trying do and what gleaves is trying to do and some the people that are part of this effort to revive studies is to give the midwest a and louder voice in American National affairs. I id love your help making that possible. Youve got it. I have a questions from that. Yeah. Go get him. If. Sir. Thank you. I believe that there were a number of people here in the midwest who were here before all of us started. And i wonder where they fit in with this renaissance of the of the midwest and history. Well, one of the great things to report from the field is there is a field of native american studies started probably in the seventies some of may remember this very important book called the middle ground about native American History of the midwest, written by richard white, whos gone on to many great things and the historical profession. But he wrote that when was a young professor up in east lansing at michigan State University and that was definitely one of the sign on this road to a great deal of work on native American History and all this history that took place with the french and indian war, pontiacs rebellion the British Occupation of this part of the country, the early american period in the 1790s, where there are all wars involving, general sinclair and the native american. I mean, there is a an extremely large historiography about happened there. And i in the book point people in the direction of that historiography which is very, very important where i try to pick up the story is in about 1800 when a lot of those questions and a lot that history about what happened to early peoples is of over but what comes after no one has really written much about so thats where i pick up the story. Another question. Does it trouble you that the big ten conference, which was always quintessential midwestern institution, now has plans date, rutgers, maryland, then about to have usc and ucla it does it bother me its outrageous its ridiculous. What do you want me do anything terribles operating in the california schools even worse. I was thinking about this when. I was finishing the Richard Norton smith about gerald ford because and i love this story in the 1960s 1976 president ial race against carter, gerald ford signs up a lot of these legend football legends to help him on the campaign and one of them is woody hayes of ohio state and. He wants to help out ford and stuff, but he calls gerald ford on the phone and says, ill help you because i want you to president because youre a great man, but i will not say anything nice about michigan michigan. No, i hope we can undo. This terrible decision to to widen the big ten. Its its should be a midwest conference every year here. Another question. Yes, you have talked a lot about the progressive nature of, education, midwest. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the land grant universities. Was this unique just in the northwest . Did it also spread in other parts of the country . Well, its unique and an important sense. Well, first of all, ohio state, south dakota state, michigan university, minnesota, these are all land grant schools vary be important for our part of the country these are obviously Research Universities have a lot of influence in the region. One of the greatest ideas that came out of the midwest remember that grant bill passed congress after all the southerners because of the civil war and these midwesterners who have been pushing it for a while, all of a sudden theyre like, great, all the southerners are gone. We can pass through congress and abraham lincoln, who has not been mentioned tonight and should have probably the prototypical midwesterner he eagerly signed into law. Now in the south, i hope i have this history right. But in the south, those institutions to be split into africanamerican colleges and into white colleges. And so you have a whole different system developing in the south. And i should have mentioned this in terms of the racial integration of midwestern colleges. Again, that starts in the 1830s in places like Antioch College and oberlin and ohio university. There matriculating black students very early on. And these big ten schools, we were just talking about that become big research there their desegregate did from the beginning and thats another great aspect to midwestern history that people dont talk about. Theres some Great Stories the 20th century when university of minnesota and theres probably michigan angle on this, too. But i remember university, minnesota, university of iowa, they were asked to go to louisiana, play lsu. And, of course, the rule, if you went to louisiana was you cant bring any black players and. These big ten schools would object and they would say that theres no way were doing that. Were bringing all our players and so this became a real friction, like the 1930s and forties when these midwest schools were playing southern schools. Now, the question. Yes, back row almost the row. I was watching you drive around. I often see buildings that i understand to be from the grange movement. And i was thinking, could talk a little bit more about that here in midwest. Yeah. So theres a guy named oliver kelly from minnesota that started the grange and he model it on the masonic lodges and masonic temples because there was a dance of civic culture in the midwest. It was a of joining lots of clubs. Many of us would be familiar with the masons and more probably the colonies and the like ns and rotary, but there also clubs that were very specific to particular towns. Yeah, i thinking again about this when was reading the gerald ford biography too because they Richard Norton smith says in the beginning of that book when this young lawyer is starting off in grand rapids, gerald ford was a member of 30 teen clubs. I mean, thats a great example of this civic culture in the midwest and not just the rotarians, not just the lions and the koalas he was a member of the the county farm bureau. He was a member of the acp here. He was. What were some of these other clubs . But im this is very stereotypically middle and know gerald ford were right here in in the in the home of ford. This is this is a great place. Think about these things. And he is a representative of midwestern culture. He comes out of that culture. He represents well. But anyway, so the grange is a farm organization, started in minnesota in the 1870s. It spread throughout the midwest and it is able to succeed and take off very quickly because of the existing Civic Infrastructure that already here. And then after farmers alliances begin to form this later on, more into the populist party in some places but the populists are more active in the south and on the the populist were less successful in the midwest because. They already had a lot of influence, agricultural influence and and via the alliance etc. So yes, i do have a section in the book on importance of these agrarian societies and these agrarian clubs because lets face it, most of the 19th century that im talking about here, the rural midwest is up of farmers in the 1880s and 1890s are still. 80 and 90 of most of these states are our farmers, small towns and farmers. You ever heard of the book industry and, i think is her name pioneer women was published in 1981 and they she got stories that, i think, from her grandmothers attic or her great grandmothers friends wrote stories. The women that started in the east coast but went into the to settle the midwest. And have you ever read giants the earth . I robock i think thats another fascinating book. Well i oddly enough i live about six blocks from the royal log cabin so all only roll vog his family migrated over to the dakotas from norway. I guess the 1870s or 1880s, and he became educated, it became literate, which peasants in norway werent necessary early is still kind of a monarchy coal aristocratic society in norway he becomes educated and, becomes a writer and writes the experience of all these norwegian immigrants, and to especially the western of the midwest and talks about their struggles and how hard they worked and the difficulties of settling out on the prairie kind of a grim book in ways, you know, brett has a has a lot of problems per answer freezes and the dakota. You know this is it wasnt easy these these people worked hard and they struggled to build a society that they were very proud of. And one of the chapters, one of the chapter titles in giants in the earth is the plains drink, the blood of the christian man or Something Like that. I mean, its very but hes trying to make the point about the struggles of of norwegian immigrants. But the norwegian are an extremely successful all immigrant group. They become very active in Civic Affairs and they start getting elected to local offices and, to State Government and to and governors and senators and stuff. I think is a norwegian congressman elected from minnesota in 1872, when south dakota became a state. It had a norwegian. I mean, these are right off the boat immigrants. This is not your typical immigrant experience. It my wife is a norwegian. So we in the winter time well go down to the sons of norway hall, south dakota, for what is that . Was that fish they eat. Horse. Is it talks . Is that right . Lutefisk. Okay. Yeah we go to the lutefisk feed at the sons of norway hall. So in my part of the midwest. Lots of norwegians. Its its great. We have time for a couple more questions. Can we get a microphone. Youre in the middle middle. I can speak loudly. I well, were on cspan, so get a microphone there. What role did faith and organized religion play in the development of the strength of the midwest . It was extremely important. Probably the first thing settlers did when they began to organize a community was to build church. And soon after they organized the main street and, put in a dry goods store, and soon after that, they built school. But no, it was foundational to life in midwest. What made it different . It was the mixture of denominations here which made it very religiously diverse and unlike some of the other, because, you know, if you think of colonial virginia it was the episcopal that dominated that. If you think of new england, obviously dominated by the congregational church, but you get out here into the midwest, all jumbled up, a real mixture of religions. And so in a lot of early midwest and communities, you have a a lot of Cooperation Among dynamic nations. So theyll build one church and then the presbytery. You can go there on sunday morning and the methodists can go there sunday noon and in the afternoon theyd let the lutherans in, you know, until everyone could get a established and get their own churches go. So you know, its its foundational to two midwestern settlement. Well thats the work again to go back the northwest ordinance and article three which says religion morality and knowledge being necessary to Good Government and the happiness of mankind schools and the means of education. So forever be encouraged. It is explicit about religion than. Either the declaration of independence or the u. S. Constitution that came out the same year, or whats written about in the federalist papers often. I mean its really quite distinct. And then article one guarantees this religious pluralism. Theres theres no requirement that you be a certain kind of christian the same. Its just exactly what you said earlier massachusetts and in the 1830 they are still a established in those states but not in the midwest. I mean we were way ahead of time, but it shows how important religion was. But you could come here and be the the believer you wanted to be as opposed to having the state trying to impose it on you a certain kind of faith in commend something to you in this book finding a new midwestern in history gleams in. I were very lucky to recruit the yale historian butler to write a chapter about religion in the midwest. Its extremely well. But one of the things he emphasizes is how diverse the denominations were and the degree of cooperation, etc. Oddly enough, i was at a School Graduation on sunday at a little dutch church, sioux falls, by the way, and i was to a guy from renville, minnesota which is the home of john butler. John butler grew up there and so he ive heard him talk about how, you know, these churches develop in midwestern towns, especially in our part of the country. There would be, you a wisconsin centered church that the swedes had and would be a missouri centered church that the germans had. And then there would be another lutheran synod and, you know, there would be different varieties based on the ethnic groups of the area. But i think its safe to say that the i would say premier historian of american religion, john butler, is from a little town in the midwest and to this book and has thought about a lot. So if you want to dive in, id start with chapter one last question. Yes. Yeah, just thing about religion and schools and the various cultures all kind of came to a head in a book by. Tom brokaw, neighbors. Tom brokaw. Yeah. Which book is it . Do you have that book here . Gleaves i have a im very proud to have a blurb from tom brokaw on the back of one of these books because grew up in south dakota, picks down, you know, hes supposed have a book coming out in the next couple of months about growing up south dakota. So watch out for that. Hes a very, very nice guy. He is in real life, you know everything. He seems to be on tv. I would say i wanted to this may be a good way to end it. Tom brokaw, when he retired, you know, he used to be on morning joe. And some of these shows. He would give his commentary in the morning. And then he officially retired about two years ago. And as he was signing off, one of the things he said and remember he was in new york was at nbc news. He was the nightly anchor. He was in the middle of everything for decades. And one of the things he said was that the news media and our culture in this country is completely dominated by the coasts and people then are in 30 rock beaming these news stories out to the rest. The country dont understand the rest of the country, they understand manhattan and they understand los angeles and so take it from tom brokaw we need stronger cultural institutions in the midwest we need stronger newspapers here we more journals and magazines and books are talking about our history so remember this you need to understand your history and your own identity and the region youre from because if you dont, someone else is going to tell you what your history is and they dont have your best interests at heart they dont really necessarily care about accuracy. They may into the whole revolt from the village malarkey. So please support things like your local library breweries and your local museums and organizations like the Midwestern History Association and, you know, carry on the civic legacy that gerald ford and many midwest midwesterners represented. So thanks for hearing us up. You had the opportunity. Put questions to john. I have to questions for you. Did you learn tonight and yes, absolutely. And second, did this presentation make you prouder of being a midwest rah, rah, rah, rah . All right. Thats good enough. The class in texas and im proud to be a midwestern now. Okay. Well, i want to thank just a few people and recognize a few people of all. We so appreciate it. We have members of the ford family, bob and karen. We always appreciate your being here representing uncle gerry and aunt betty to over thanksgiving. We have a trustee from the Gerald R Ford president ial foundation who is here cochair hank meyer. Thank you so much for being here here. And we always to thank our great partner, the Gerald R Ford museum, for being just wonderful hosts of this events. They always do a beautiful in this great facility so thanks to i saw Joel Westphal here earlier thanks him and thanks also to brooke for their hospitality. Always for these gatherings. Well with that then i think john there are some books we have the good country in the bookstore and im sure people have books they would like you to sign. So lets adjourn and. Get to it. All right. Thanks a lot