Transcripts For CSPAN2 NCAA 20240703

[inaudible conversations] the hearing of the Judiciary Committee is called to order. Please take your seats and welcome to all of our witnesses. I am very grateful to my colleague, senator durbin, for giving me the opportunity to chair the hearing and we wish him a very, very speedy recovery. He evidently had knee surgery. I believe it may have been because of a College Sports injury and i dont know exactly all the details of his sports prowess. Ive seen him in the senate gym, but all of you know our colleague, senator booker, who is truly a College Athlete star and very knowledgeable on this topic and a partner with me in longstanding efforts to reform the system, i want to thank our Ranking Member, senator graham, who has been very interested and involved in this issue and im going to put in the record a statement from chairman durbin before i begin my remarks. We all know today that the system of College Athletes is in need of reform. Thats why youre here. Its in need of reform now. Which is why were here. The system, all too long and often, has been exploitive and financially, emotionally, physically and we have had a number of hearings in other committees. The Commerce Committee as well as this one. And i am hopeful that this very impressive Bipartisan Group of witnesses can help to guide us towards specific steps with a sense of urgency that is appropriate for this kind of problem. The system, very simply, has been far more focused on profits than protecting students and it has failed to safeguard them against the abusive and often exploitive system that takes advantage of their blood, sweat and tears in creating a 16 billion dollar industry. Make no mistake, its a 16 billion or more industry thats fueled by the blood, sweat and tears of these athletes and all too often they fail to benefit from it. Many states have passed nil legislation. The Supreme Court has ruled in a 90 decision that has forced, in a sense, a day of reckoning and i believe strongly that we need a National Standard for name, image and likeness. Mainly to protect the athletes against potential disreputable agents or unscrupulous deals in a race to the bottom among a patchwork of states. Thats important not only to protect the schools against unfair competition, but also the athletes themselves. The idea of a National Standard is what brings us here today in a very immediate sense. Student athletes are better off now than they were and many of your organizations have recognized the need for change. Charlie baker, the head of the ncaa specifically outlined some of the reforms that they have taken voluntarily. Weve all read and heard alarming examples of these instances of exploitation and abuse. Every year, at least two College Football players die of heat stroke. Just three months ago, from midamerican nazarene in kansas was found in a locker room after football practice suffering a seizure with the body temperature of 108 degrees. He never recovered and died a week later. Heat stroke is one of the most gruesome ways to die, horrible, and its absolutely preventible. And these deaths are a product of bullying, a win at all cost common in Athletic Departments. That culture creates a condition that costs the lives of talented young men and women. And fostered an abuse of hazing and Sexual Assault weve seen at baylor, and elsewhere. The ncaa in past years has failed to address this abuse as quickly and effectively as it should have. I agree that we should set a strong National Standard and we ought to enshrine it in federal law, enforceable. Not just put it in the statute, but make sure that it is enforceable either through the separate corporation senator booker and i have prepared to enforce an athletes bill of rights or through some other means. As importantly as nil though, we need to address enforceable health and Safety Standards, much more broadly and comprehensively. We need to ensure that College Athletes are able to get an education in return for their blood, sweat and tears. In july i was proud to announce a draft bipartisan bill with senator booker and senator moran. The College Athlete and combination protection act. It would exposure a strong nil, and our student rights package would set health and Safety Standards to protect College Athletes from serious injury, mistreatment, abuse, even death. It would guarantee tuition and aid to opportunity athletes that suffer a career ending injury or a cut from a team. It would establish a medical trust fund to Cover Health Care for longterm injuries resulting from College Athletes participation in sports and it would bring transparency to the nil market and to College Athletes programs. We talked about these kinds of reform for more than a decade. The time for action is now. Their lives, ongoing careers at stake. Individuals who really need and deserve this kind of protection and im very grateful to senator durbin and the committee for addressing this topic and id like to turn now to the Ranking Member. Thank you, senator blumenthal. Hoping that senator durbin would get back. I dont know what his 40 time will be after the knee energy, in my case i just want to run 40, i dont care how long it takes. Im going to try to get senator bookers number and put it online and see if it would make money. What number were you . 81. So we meet today with the world on fire. To my democratic colleagues youve been very good to work with in trying to find a response to this horrific attack by hamas against israel that will make the world better and safer place, so, as we talk about one. More fun things in american life, College Sports, i want to let everyone out there know that this committee is working hard to try to find a way to be helpful. In terms of being helpful, where i come from, South Carolina, and many people in this College Football was not a sport, its a religion and were very concerned about where this thing is going. I think theres a lot of bipartisan support, there needs to be a National Standard. All of your schools need to have some guidance that applies to everybody all the time. I think if you make College Athletes employees, youre going to knock out sports programs for division two, a lot of nonrevenue generating sports, particularly in womens athletics will go away. As you try to elevate some of the star players to make sure they get a piece of the pie, we dont want to create an environment where division two or Smaller Division one schools will be knocked out of the game because they cant afford it. I want it still to be an amateur sport to the best that we can. So, to me, i want to associate myself with what senator blumenthal said, there needs to be a federal standard. Utah is offer everybody on the team a new truck. Theres no end do this. Donors are out there competing ferociously. In pro sports you sign a contract and that means nobody is going to make that player away from you for a certain period of time and youve got to chance to get your money back. Between the portal and nil, College Football is in absolute chaos and we need to fix it. So National Legislation is the only way to fix it and in our desire to protect the athlete, which is a worthy goal, we cant destroy by making it so expensive nonrevenue generating sports. And we want to make sure that athletes at every level in college, smaller colleges can play, too. Thats the goal and i look forward to trying to find a solution. Thank you. Thanks, senator graham. Ill introduce the witnesses and then well swear them in and turn to their statements. Were pleased to have all of you here today. Charlie baker, our first, head of the ncaa. Former basketball player at harvard who also happened to serve as governor of massachusetts from 2015 to 2023. Were joined by tony pettiti, commissioner of the big ten conference. Big ten, one of the socalled power five conferences, home to several powerhouse College Athletics programs which i into chair durbin would like to include the university of illinois and northWestern University. Our next witness is trinity thomas, an all american gymnast at the university of florida. Among her many accomplishments, two time honda award winner given to top female athletes in College Gymnastics, and she holds the ncaa record for perfect 10s with 28. Shes currently pursuing her second masters degree and built an impressive nil portfolio. Were also joined by mr. Huma, executive director of the College Players national College Players association organization, he helped to found, for College Athletes rights. He earned a bachelors degree and master of Public Health from ucla where he was a member of the Football Team and very helpful in his path not only in advocacy, but also in helping us shape legislation. Mr. Walker jones, executive director of the growth collective, an entity designed to help athletes at the university of mississippi monetize their nil rights. Mr. Generals graduated with a bachelor degree from the university of mississippi where he was a member of the College Football team. Miss jill bonsteiner, athletics at st. Josephs university. Member of board of directors of womens leaders in sports, she can speak to to how smaller universities are dealing with the advent of nil and finally, jack schwartzbrick, vicepresident of athletics at university of north dame and helped to shape modern College Athletics and earlier this year, coauthored an oped discussing the state of College Sports. We welcome all of you and would you please rise to take the oath, which is our custom. Do you swear that the testimony that you will give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth so help you god . Thank you. Mr. Baker, well begin with your testimony, please. inaudible i think your microphone may not be on. Better . Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much, senator blumenthal, to you and Ranking Member graham and to the distinguished members of the committee i want to start by thanking you all for the opportunity to be here today. Before i begin, i want to say on behalf of College Sports generally we condemn the recent violence perpetrated by hamas. Its hard to comprehend and our thoughts are with the people of israel and the innocents involved in that conflict. In advance of my testimony we did speak with leaders from all three divisions and others, to make sure im speaking to as many voices as possible. This committee made time to discuss College Sports speaks to their importance and we very much appreciate it. College sports are a ticket to an education for half a million young people generating 4 billion in college aid. College sports are cornerstones to countless campuses and in turn, theyre cornerstones for thriving communities. College sports are americas olympic pipeline with part of the 2022, of the team coming up. College sports are long overdue for a change, but im proud to say weve been doing something about that. Since i took over seven months ago we created a Student Athlete Health insurance funds, Health Insurance for related injuries up to two years post eligibility or graduation. Every d1 stool is required for provide health benefits, and services to student athletes. Scholarships are protected and schools must look at finance, career. And ive directed National Office leadership to put gender equity at the center of everything they do. The ncaa also continues to advance common sense changes to Sports Betting policies and enforcements policies that penalize the adults, not the young people. And the ncaa is moving nil by laws forward to improve outcomes for student athletes, we share your concern there, they deserve to profit free from manipulation. The changes are long overdue and theyre helping calls for action from members of this committee and from the student athletes themselves. There are some issues, College Sports based, that we, the ncaa cannot address on our own. A new nil by law proposal requires student athletes to disclose certain information to their schools only and offer incentives to use contract terms. We want to partner with congress to go further and curtail inducements and prevent collectives and other third parties from tampering with students and wed like to have a National Standard where a match work of laws as you pointed out, senator blumenthal currently exists. Schools, conferences in the ncaa are making changes in benefits that we provide and enable benefits and from a one size fits all approach. We submit codifying into law by granting student athletes special status that would affirm that theyre not employees and on this point were not alone. I visited college in South Carolina a few months ago with senator john thune to talk to student athletes why they dont want to become employees. All three divisions are on record saying the same thing. Theyre afraid they would be turned to employees, and historically black colleges and universities have supported this policy and they believe the progress theyve made educating young people are color would be at risk if their Athletic Departments had to become employers. We also think theres opportunity for congress to ensure in this new era of collectives that theres no discrimination on the basis of race, gender or sport in the marketing or facilitation of nil agreements and lastly, we want to partner with congress to grant limited liability, so we can set reasonable competition standards and enforce Student Health and wellbeing direction with help from congress. Let me just close with this, were grateful for the time youre giving us today and appreciate the chance to explaining ideas with you, and i learned serving as governor that the legislative branch has immense power and rightfully wields it sparringly. I believe week find Common Ground and i look forward to helping student athletes succeed in this new era. Thank you. Thank you, governor baker. Mr. Pettiti. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the pertinent issues impacting athletics, name, image and likeness commonly known as nil. Thank you for solutions. We have been working with senators cruz, blumenthal and booker on legislative proposals and im encouraged there is strong support. Im teen tony pettiti, although ive only been big ten commissioner for months, ive worked in baseball. And a student athlete, first in my family to attend college. Like millions of americans, College Athletes helped me to continue my education and for me it was baseball. Big ten is looking at research, broadbased opportunities for all students and we take great pride of our student athletes inside and outside of the classroom during their time at big ten institutions as well as afterwards. Student Athlete Health and welfare is a top priority for us at the big ten. We provide postseparation health care which assures they have access to health care and Mental Health services both during and after their time on campus. While the big ten and other conferences currently provide these concern benefits the big ten is open to and supports efforts to discuss Additional Health and wellness benefits for our student athletes. Wellness to our student athletes. Student athlete model has undergone rapid transformation. We see this complements of events as an opportunity to modify the dynamics that exist for student athletes. We are prepared to modernize our guidelines to create a new framework for collegiate athletics. One that more fairly create a new framework for collegiate athletics. One that more fairly provides benefits to student athletes directly from members institution can maintain broadbased board opportunity for many women and uphold title ix. We see four main challenges that must be addressed by proper regulation to better protect and serve our student athletes and to support a new governing structure. First there are now more than 30 different state laws related to name, image, and likeness. Many states are passing nil and the social laws designed to specifically provided in State University with a competitive advantage in recruiting tove the promise of nil. To provide certainty equity and competitive balance a uniform federal statute is needed to get this network of state laws. Second, because of the combination of Court Decisions Court Litigation and state actions the ncaa is unable to make or enforce commonsense regulations governing athletics. Through Legislation Congress should grant limited and condition conditional Liability Protections so we can set and enforce reasonable competitive standards and promote student athlete welfare. Third is the ability to effectively identify true nil deals from pay for play or inducement schemes, taken with the precipitous rise of collectiveth spirit student athletes are frequently being induced by collectives to attend specific institutions and transfer from one school to another withoutho a true nil de. This is an old and a pay play system primarily controlled by roosters and executed under the guise of nil. En we are concerned management of College Athletics is shifting away from universities to collectives. The big ten will continue to support d students making true business deals off other name image like this and provide student athletes the freedom to choose the institution from which they will obtain an education. We do not however support such activity when it is tied to pay up for play scheme disguised as nil pixel to put as the collegiate sports imbibe it has also have the motivations involved with many collectives which are trying to create competitive advantages and are not subject to title ix. We are already seeing that payments from collectors will not be easy to sustain. Without action from congress will continue to lack the ability to manage collegiate athletics. Finally i want w to touch on the question of whether the student athletes should be classified as employees. S. Not only as appointments that is complex but it is contrary to the educational model that is known florist in american collegiatete athletics. The big ten strong supports congressional proposals that would codify benefits for student athletes that guarantee consistency across states and sports without the need to classify student athlete as employees. With many new challenges on the rise and we look to congress for your partnership in helping us embrace change and ensure we tackle these new challenges effectively while celebrating and promoting College Athletics. Thank you again for the opportunity to appearor before u today and look for to answering any questions you have. Thank you, mr. Petitti. Ms. Thomas. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak here today. I have spent the last five years competing at the university of floridas gymnastics team. Over the course of my time at uf i have completed my bachelors degree and applied physiology and kinesiology and my masters degreeav in Health Education and behavior. Ive had the privilege of competing before and after name in the gym like this opportunity became available for student athletes. The experiences ive had along the way have helped me to go into the young woman that i am today. Dent assistant coach at the university of florida while pursuing second masters degree in entrepreneurship and training for olympic trials in 2024. As a student athlete at the university of florida ive had the opportunity to receive an education from a top 5 university while also competing against some of the guest gymnasts in the nation. Competing against the best athletes on the biggest stages have provided me with more opportunities than i ever imagined possible when i started gymnastics as a little girl in pennsylvania. One of the biggest opportunities that College Gymnastics has given is changes in nil policies. While student athletes i was immediately intrigued when the rules were changed. It took many and many fellow athletes to navigate waters of nil and everyone is still learning as we go given its new and unchartered territory. Its been interesting to navigate but i was able to interview and sign with agencies, partner with various companies, learn to become an entrepreneur, focus on building my grand and work on so many cool personal projects that mean a lot to me. The first year that student athletes had the ability to take advantage of nil i was able to get ipads for younger siblings as christmas kids. I worked with companies to support women sports and more. Unfortunately one of the parts of nil that makes it difficult for student athletes is varying laws and regulations that are in place from state to state. There currently is no single standard that applies to all student athletes in all sports which oftentimes leaves us confused. In some case it is different laws also place certain student athletes at a disadvantage depending where they go to school. Recently i was invited to attend sec day on the hill in washington, d. C. To speak with representatives from congress. Most of my discussion centered around the issue of nil and allowed me to share personal experiences as a student athlete including how nil policies have impacted me personally both the positive and the areas where there could still be improvements. While discussions were positive, it seemed clear that the best path forward for everyone would be if we had a federal nil policy that applied to all athletes from every sport at every school and at every level. This will create equal opportunity for all student athletes to benefit from nil and will create a uniform standard to ensure we are all playing by the same rules and eliminate confusion and unfair advantages. A federal law will also have the benefit of ensuring the future of sports like gymnastics are protected. The sec is one of the nations hot bed for showcases and developing olympic talent and huge loss well beyond College Athleticses if the sports were put at risk due to future legislation that might come from one state or another. Protecting the future of my sport and the dozens of other sports that have developed future olympians should be a top priority not only women and olympics sport at collegiate leverage helped women like me received education and helped athletes benefit from the very same nil opportunities that have experienced during my time as student athlete at the university of florida. While College Sports took a step forward with while College Sports took a step forward with nil during my time as a student athlete maura can still be done to better the lives of all student athletes. I am hopeful we will soon have a National Standard and the future of College Athletics will be improved for the next generation of great student athletes. Thank you for taking the time the focus on a topic that is important to me and hundreds of thousands of student athletes all over the nation. Thank you so much, ms. Thomas. Mr. Huma. Good morning. First iou would like to thank chairmanan durbin and Ranking Member graham, senator blumenthal for allowing me to testify today. The national College Players association, the ncta, serve as a sponsor of the first six is a thought forni nil laws in a dozen dozen other states there calls athletesli have the abiliy to earn nil compensation just like of the College Students and american citizens. As hard as the ncta as hot for freedoms come nil should not be a priority for congress because athletes already have the freedoms. While the person and a related areas that should be finetuned such as athlete agent certification, the more importantmo issues that athletes desperately congress to prioritize. Instead of adopting an nil only bill, congress should include broadbased reform that is critical in protecting College Athletes. Many are shocked to learn that the in c a refuse to enforce Safety Standards. Its not against ncaa rules for College Athletics personnel to force an athlete back into the same game with a concussion, sexually abusing athlete, or killing athlete and hazardous work out. Instead of helping this athlete victims the into a cold the responseo it has no duty to protect College Athletes. Then whose duty is it . These colleges receive federal funds while creating Hazardous Conditions for the athletes. Ct College Athletes. Ncpa asks committee not to follow the ncas league by skirting this important duty. Ncpa is grateful for members taking active role and trying to address problems in nca sports through legislation. Ncpa has been working with senators booker, blumenthal and moran on a bipartisan draft that addresses nil issues but broadbased reforms and draft continues to head in a promising legislation and Bipartisan Legislation cannot have poison pills that would kill. Such a bill shouldnt attempt require or prohibit athlete revenue sharing or Employment Status or give antitrust exemptions. Both before and after state nil laws became effective Lobby Congress for antitrust which ncpa strongly opposes. Antitrust lawsuits, doj antitrust investigations and targeting antitrust violations have brought forth important economic freedoms and protections for College Athletes because of antitrust laws. Nc can no longer price fix below cost of attendance. Limit scholarships to one year and prohibit colleges providing medical coverage or ban athletes from earning nio compensation. The nca is a chronic antitrust violater and example why antitrust laws are needed in this country. Another important issue and one of separate bill would require athletes to spend additional hours traveling at the expense of their academics and their health. New developments are nothing but a greedy money grab that treats athletes like commodities and education like a bunch line. Using athletes in predominantly black sports to create more tv dollars while black football and athletes suffer lowest Graduation Rate is unjustifiable. Another problem is that as mega conferences emerge each team will have less of a chance to win their conference. Colleges and mega conferences are literally selling out their athletic future for tv dollars just to give a pay bump to coaches athletic administrators and spend on more shining facilities. This is shortsided. This harm cause athletes and encourage to pass legislation and would base on reasonable proximity and limit the number of colleges in a conference. Theres no its no secret they are partisan divisions in many areas in american lives. The ncpa has work with lawmakers on both sides without the past nil loss in red states, blue states and purple states because when it comes to the wellbeing of College Athletes, lawmakers care about athletes who find themselves on safety regardless of Political Party. Every future current and former College Athlete in each of your states needs you to join this team and pass meaningful broadbased legislation. Thankba you. Thanks very much, mr. Huma. Mr. Jones. Senator blumenthal, Ranking Member graham a member of the committee thank you so much for inviting me to be a today. I name is walker jones on the executive director of the grove collective ripleys in athletes and University Mississippi and also a t Founding Member of thec eight or collective which is comprised of 25 collegiate collected from across the power five landscape serving as advocates for over 50,000 student athletes in 25 sports. Our goal is to serve as a unified voice to shape the developmentil of nil, of the nil market in College Sports by creating a sustainable model that gives student athletes the ability to maximize their nil platforms. Current data shows collectives are responsible for approximately 80 of the money being paid to ncaa athletes through the nl activities. Givenve this figure, the tca is unique in that our members possess and willing to share our firsthand knowledge about nil is working in your local communities, and we seek to partner with anyone who wants to produce wellinformed and effective legislation benefiting collegiate student b athletes first. I like all are stakeholders in close sports we w work about an ecosystem at the intersection with nil commerce. Thing. Our organization and i are extremely bullish on College Athletics. The overwhelming majority of commerce with name image, likeness is positive. Todays student athletes have resource and ability to deal with the realities that inevitable come in life. Athletes have the ability to solve socioeconomic issues, stay in School Longer to further academic careers, locate the best possible competitive the situations athletically and more functional contributor to society when they leave their respective campuses. Finally, as tv viewership continues to break records each weekend in College Football season this year in past spring with march madness, maximize their value has never been stronger. Nil landscape continues to experience growing pains of any free market model. The tca members feel those in this panel today and other important stakeholders share the expertise and passion along with congress to Work Together for longterm sustainability and growth of College Athletics. If need is the mother of all innovation collectives were born from the need of athletes to have secure entity representing their interest. Student athletes trust our collectives and this is caused tension at times between affiliate institutions, collegiate and ncaa, our singular focus is on the student athletes who would otherwise be forced to navigate this new and constantly evolving environment on their own. We root for and work with every student athlete that choses to work with us not just the superstar athletes. While no one would be surprised that the majority of the student athletes and work originate around football mens basketball our efforts have particularly benefited women and nonrevenue sports. In fact, a 20 increase in womens nil deals from 2021 to 2022 and we expect an even larger increase at the end of 23. All this leaves me to talk about what we as collective stands for. We stand for creating opportunities for athletes to match with National Local sponsors, nonprofits and charities while creating avenues to interact with fan bases, we are independent businesses separate and letting departments and student athletes served best and we provide resource and tools to help athletes to help monetize value and prepare for future professions and careers. We provide transparency and disclosure to our University Partners to remain compliant with state and ncaa rules and regulation. Finally, most importantly we are committed to diversity and inclusion in sourcing in opportunities for all athletes. It would be helpful to elaborate on what collectives are not. We are not agents, we are not Financial Advisers to the athletes that being said most of our collectives divide Financial Literacy and tax planning and assistance with any financial questions that come their way. We do not participate in the recruiting process and desire to not, to only work with athletes once he decided to it in our school. That is best left to coaches and Athletic Departments under the strict watch of the ncaa. Were not rogue organizations run by outofcontroll boosters and donors. Post collectives operate a fulltime businesses with infrastructure step, transparency and with the universities and constituents. I thank you for your time and look forward to answering any and all of your question. Thanks, mr. Jones. Ms. Bodensteiner. Senator blumenthal, Ranking Member graham, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify here today. I am especially appreciative of invitation because i fear the voice of institutions like saint joes has been lost in the public narrative. As youge know, College Athletics is extremely diverse. The reality is at a division i school like saintnt joes collee athletics is working quiteki we. Before we consider starting over and transitioning alston athletes across the country to employee status based largely on the issues facing one sport, id like to tell you more about life at saint joes. We have 478 student athletes which equates to 10 of our student body. We offer 20 sports, football is not one of them. We have an incredible departmental culture that is consistent with our jesuit mission, Holistic Development of first and athletes. Our student athletes go to class and dislike majors which theyre passionate about. More than half of her student athletes participate in sports that are not bound to regularseason conference schedule, meaning they rarely travel overnight in this class. Our student athletes outperform our nonstudent athletes in gpa, retention rates anddu Graduation Rates. We kept many student athletes for former olympians, professional athletes, hall of fame coaches with most of our athletes going to very successful careers outside of sport. Last s year just 3. 9 of our undergraduate student athletes transferred. Our annual expense budget is just over 20 million which includes includes almost half of that which goes towards Student Financial aid as you know many power five institutions have budgets can time as large as ours. Our revenue, while growing, does not equal our expenses. In fact, the university subsidize our Athletic Department to the tune of 80 per year. So why does the university make this investment . Primarily because athletes benefit and are enriched from the experiences they gain from being a student athlete and every person to be the leaders of tomorrow. Division i athletics also benefits the entire university by creating a more vibrant Campus Experience and providing national exposure. At saint joes we are not waiting for an ncaa rule to tell us to protect the health and safety of our student athletes. We do so because its the right thing to do and its fundamental to who we are. We employ dozens of individuals whose sole job is to support the physical and Mental Wellbeing of our student athletes and academic success. Finally, outside of teen tl our number one operating expense is student athlete insurance premiums and medical expenses. I hope youll agree athletics is working quite well for student athletes in aestheticians like saint joes. In my opinion the primary crisis facing College Athletics as the threat of ate student athletes becoming employees. I practice labor and Employment Law for 15 just before getting into this line of work. I do not leave Employment Status is the answer and or do our student athletes. They do want to have to apply for posted positions. What theyre really going for is an education. They do want to go through the state work comp system for their injuries. They dont want to punch a time clock worried about what might be compensable time under the flsa. Interesting athletes are deemed employees we willl transition their Financial Aid to wages. In order to stay competitive. The taxation differences between wages and tuition are extreme and not in the favor of our student athletes. Our 51 International Student athletes want to compete and he would not be able to do so as employees due to their f1 student status. For these reasons and many more i am passionate about the granting of special status to student athletes that would confirm that they are not employees at the respective institutions. On the other hand, we desperately need reform when it comes to nil. Like most Athletic Director i have always been supportive of student athlete nil. Legitimate endorsement deals like those obtained by ms. Thomas are also especially for women who have limited opportunities in professional sports and his value peaks during their college years. Unfortunately, the current nil situation is untenable. For three reasons. U number one, nil collectives are engaged in bidding warsre for attendance andle retention of student athletes. Number two, under current rules title ix does not apply to collectives resulting in disproportionate percentage of collective dollars going to mail athletes. And number three, the patchwork of conflicting state laws governing nil are confusing to everyone especially the student athletes and create a parameter an equal Playing Field. In sum, thank you for your attention today and thankte you especially for hearing the voice of the nonpower five schools like saint joes and beyond. Thank you very, very much, ms. Bodensteiner. And we will now turn to of your alma mater, notre dame. Thank you very much, gemma blumenthal, Ranking Member graham and members of the committee. Both for the invitation to be with you today but also for your interest in this important topic. German blumenthal the university of notre dame shares both your sense of urgency and your belief in need for reform. I am on the final leg of a 40 year journey to support youth olympic and collegiate athletes. Its been a privilege of a lifetime because its allowed me to assist on a first ten bases remarkable young people like msa route to education, to leadership development, and to brighter a futures. College athletics represents the most compelling example of that for me or its uniquely American Asset that has enabled education for firstgeneration americans, made our colleges and universities more diverse places, contributed to the very fabric of the university community, and sustained and supported our Olympic Movement in thisnd country. But that unique asset must evolve if it is going to continue to deliver those sorts of benefits. That we add notre dame understood that, was evident in 2015 when president jenkins became the First University president and the country in the oped piece to call on the granting of rights for name, image, and likeness for all student athletes. More recently in an oped piece, father jenkins also demonstrated our support for medical trust fund and for graduation guarantees to student athletes. The Common Thread in that view at the univision notre dame is normalizing the experience of studentth athletes against thatf students who are not athletes. That was the basis of our opinion on name, image, likenesi and ideas. If every other student at our campus had that right, why shouldnt student athletes wax similarly, whether it is a space on athletic participation, in this case the risk of injury in Contact Sports or the potential to leave early to pursue a professional opportunity, then a distinction is appropriate and thats why we supported both the medical trust fund and the graduation guarantee. We recognize that that reform must continue, and theres a necessary role for congress to play in it. But it cant be limited in scope. We the members of the nca must accept the responsibility to do more. We support fully president bakers efforts to reform name, image, likeness and ideas, to provide the medical graduation protections he articulated, and we must do more to help ensure that the opportunity to transfer does not undermine the opportunity to gain an education at our colleges and universities. But there are three areas in which we do need your help. The first has been referred to by several people here, and that is to make sure to retain the student athlete status as students. That status is being attacked administratively, in litigation that is ongoing, and insert legislation. It is central to our model that our student athletesel be studes and not employees for many other reasons ms. Bodensteiner articulated. But most important way our student athletes dont want thee change in status here they come to notre dame to be students, to the experience of students living in dorms, going to the same classes and pursuing the same majors. The risk of changing that model has many faces, but the one that concerns me the most is the risk to our olympic sports and our female sports and colleges and universities. It will create a pressure to separate the sports, and with that separation comes a challenge to the funding of our olympic sports. We also need help in preempting the myriad off state laws which set different standards for College Athletics. College athletics is the quintessential example of interstate commerce. Werc have more of our contest outside the state of indiana and in it. And finally we need a way to satisfy the student athletes interest in competitive equity. They want the opportunity to participate and win. They want to know theres an even Playing Field. We have to find a way to deliver that to them. I that can come either by empowering the ncaa in a limited areas to enable competitive equity, or to develop a process by which we can agree with our student athletes of what those rules and regulation should be. Our student athletes deserve the competitive equity that we need to deliver to them. Thank you very much. Thank you very, very much. I thank you all for this really excellent testimony. We are going to questions now from committee members. We will have fiveminute rounds. I will begin and then turn to the Ranking Member and then we will go in the order of appearance. Appearance. What i hear is a strong endorsement of College Athletics to the Unifying Force for our communities and the senator mentioned College Athletics as a religion in South Carolina. I dont know if it is in connecticut but we celebrate victory in connecticut as you know the uconn huskies have the fifth championship. The hockey team was victorious as well and we have parades literally through the streets of hartford when it happens. So i think youve all highlighted the unique Unifying Force that College Athletics and the opportunity to students and the unique opportunity that we have and the need to do it now for reform. I hear are also strong also strn to the opposition to classify athletes as employees. I hear a general feeling that the reform very likely should go beyond strictly and il. And some of your colleges and st. Josephs and notre dame most impressively are already embarking on many of the reforms that we have proposed but we need to avoid a race to the bottom a bidding war among the colleges that often tempt College Athletes with unscrupulous deals or agents and put colleges at the mercy of an unequal Playing Field. What id like to do is now focus on the reforms that may avoid the need for even that employee status that seems so alluring to many who propose reform. Id like i would like to ask all of you, and in interest of time of going to put it to you collectively, would any of you oppose the creation of a a medical trustd to Cover Health Care for student athletes longterm injuries . Ifou you would oppose it, raise your hand and i will call on you. Nobody opposes it. The record should show. Would you oppose guaranteeing the scholarships of student athletes that suffer career ending injury or who are cut from 18 . If you oppose it, please raise your hand. Again the record should show no when here opposes it. Would you oppose setting enforceable Health Safety standards to protect College Athletes from serious injury, this treatment, abuse and death . Again, the with opposes it. And finally, would you oppose the requirement for a least high revenue schools to support the insurance costs and outofpocket medical expenses of student athletes . No opposition. I think your views on this issue are profoundly important and show that wend need to think beyond just nil standards. I am struck, and this issue has been raised, by the difference often in treatment of women athletes, female athletes under the present system, apparently earn approximately 900 per nil deal compared to the 3000 which is the average for male athletes as reported by the nfl platform open doors. It seems to me that this area is onea where reform is necessary, and i would like to ask ms. Thomas and ms. Bodensteiner for your views ons this topic. Can you repeat the question for me, please . Of disparate treatment between mennc and women in colle sports. Do you see it as an issue, and how pressing . Yes, i yes, i do see it. Me as a theme athlete i feel like i personally have to do a lot more, especially in the nil space to receive what i feel like i deserve. Ms. Bodensteiner. Thank you for the question, senator. Just to bring a life to that, right now at saint joes, male basketball studentoe athletes a, i wouldnt say demanding, but asking what the collective will do for them. That is not happening in any of our womens sports, and to think it is absolute essential that we find a way to ensure that male and female athletes have equal opportunity to earn nil money. Thank you. My time has expired some going to turn to senator graham. I have a lot more questions but we will have a segment i hope. Thanks, senator blumenthal. So congress does nothing, what is this thing go, mr. Swarbrick . I think the windup with a series of rulings that declare students as employees subject to the fl fsa rule or other rules and regulations. But it wont happen uniformly. It will happen serially and create an unsustainable difference from state to state will have a patchwork of state legislation that will also create differences which are unsustainable. That for me are the things that are most important to avoid at the moment while we continue the reforms that senator blumenthal articulate. Governor baker do you agree with that . Where you see this thing going if we do nothing . I was a first of all that i think while i appreciate walker jones optimism about men and women when it comes to nil dissipation, the numbers are so well, first of all there are no publicly available numbers, okay . So the first thing we really need more than anything is some form of transparency about what people are actually getting. There are reporters who cover College Sports who wont ride a nil because they dont leave anything anybody tells them. Hold on a second. Mr. Jones, who is the highestpaid nil person in collegele football . While it, again, a lot of that is sort of legend dash of urban legends but im not asking urban legend. Youre in this visit, you should know. Tell me. Well again, probably the highest grossing is a gym is actually only be done from lsu. How much does she make . Again shes making sevenfigure guide on the exact figure but shess well in the seven figures in her endorsemen endorsement. Mr. Petitti, tony come kennecott utah . Thats fine, thank you. What is a sink of the go on the sidelines. I agree with them. I think will b end up or will be having a system that is dictated by myriad state laws by the result of litigation, the result of employment action is completely unmanaged change. Think the results are unpredictable and i think let me give you my concern. Between the portal and the poaching of players, i think you left chaos. You get the university offering everybody who will play a truck. So were headed down the road here ofd a bidding war. You agree with that, tony . Idea. I think the coaches would echo the same sentiment across multiple sports in terms of the money entering the system, its called nil but its not really nil pig sooie say collectives are responsible for the overwhelming amount of money in the system. That money is not really true nil deals right now. I feel you are correct, senator. Heres my concern to the committee. College athletics needs to be available to men and women at every level. Nongenerating ms. Thomas, does a Gymnastic Team make money for university afford or do you know . Im not sure. Well, youve got a lot to be proud of. There are a lot of programs out there that dont make money here is that true, ms. Bodensteiner . That is correct. If its all about money, theyre going to be left behind. Division ii schools, if you made division ii, if you make people employees, governor baker, what would happen to the Division Ii Schools . S . Its pretty Clear Division ii and division iii schools would get out of the interscholastic collegiate sports business and return to speak and listen to what he says. Is going to happen, right . If you make these people employees they cant afford it. You tax everything and you completely change the model. Its sort of a 4x increase in what the cost would be. The Typical School has an athletic budget of five or 6 million here thats going to start, and d3 is more or less the same. Its 95 of the schools lose money on sports, 95, right bright . I of them have serious wedges with serious revenue, and a concern about employment but the willingness to do a lot more around what they believe they should be doing for student athletes. But youre right, senator, the impactnd on d2 and d3 and by the way a lot of d1 schools and are athlete student athletes would be profound. Seems to me want to avoid that to make College Sports and helped a lot of people in different levels, that should be one of our goals. You all agree withnt that . Everybody nods. So mr. Chairman, lets try to find a way, senator blumenthal, to deal with the money problem nil make sure peoplee are taking care of athletes and not just wild, wild west out there but final comment. If this committee and Commerce Committee doesnt act in about a year this thing is going to be an absolute mess and youre going to destroy College Athletics as we know it. Thanks. Thank you, senator graham. I think wild west is exactly the right term to characterize where were going. Senator whitehouse. Thanks. Thank you, mr. Chairman for holding this. Weve got so many witnesses here that its goingit to be hard to ask questions and get to all seven let alone ask a bunch of questions and get through all seven. So what i think i will do is mention three concerned that i have that you all are welcome to respond to in riding. We take questions for the record here and your answers become a part of the record in the proceedings. So the first concern is helping student athletes avoid unfair contracts, where the get locked in for too long or locked in to contracts and have huge management and other fees and so forth. Whos in charge of protecting student athletes when youre so much pressure and money involved and theyre not exactly expert in the art of contract negotiations . So thats one. Two is the nil will naturally take pretty good care of the star highvalue student athletes. And the question is, when this flood of money opens up how much should we be looking at the nonstarter teammates nonstar of the student athletes. How much would be looking at the nonremunerative teens in addition to the teams that make enormous amounts of money . And what do we do about schools that dont field either remove the team were star athlete. Did to get the feeling or should there be a fund that tries to reach into all of those areas . That two and 300 is a pretty, pretty obvious piece which is that are lots of injuries that take place during student athletics. Athletics. And how we manage those into the future it would seem to me if loads of money is flowing in, one good thing that would flood into would be a fund that can make sure that athletes get their healthcare covered for injuries that are traced back to their collegiate sports careers even if the manifestation comes later. We do this with veterans all the time. You have an exposure during your service in a foreign country. Twenty years later something manifests, you look back and the va provides the coverage. Something along those lines. Those are the thoughts that come to mind for me and if you have any helpful advice on that i would be grateful to have each of you take a moment to share your thoughts and riding of those. With that, mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Thanks, senator whitehouse. Senator grassley. Well, thank you all for coming. You are in the middle of a lot of things that t go on in the fl of the year with the University Sports and everything. Anybody that wants to respond to this, because if the concern of mine, if there is no federal preemption of state nil loss, do you believe there will be any title ix concerns . And if there is a federal nil proposal, what you propose congress do w to mitigate titlex concerns, if you think there should be concerns raised . I dont expect all of you to answer that, but if you have you want to dig into that i would appreciate getting your opinion. I would like to give a perspective your i think on, title ix is federal law and its enforceable. There are some, the collectives its difficult to see the degree to which they are collaborating with the schools were separate from schools or anywhere in between. Collectives acting as an arm of the school sharing Central Service i think this is addressed in the draft senator booker, limassol and moran. Press the a clear line. Is this an extension of the school and if it is title ix should apply. If not then is just like nike or some other thirdparty out there. As much as we all, the beginning of nil it was all about free Market Opportunities for College Athletes. The same ones the pros get come of the american citizens get. With the freeti market sometimea free market isnt very equitable and all walks of life if you advertisers, distant complaints from different groups at advertisers are not including diversity in various areas. But you dont have congress tried to come in and defined things. The free market is one thing. When it comes to direct pay, title ix is applicable. Free markets, free market i think there were issues being raised about whether or not male athletes get more than female athletes and that is a reflection in part again, aside from the idea that some of these collectives are acting as an extension of the school. We should apply. You know really its reflection of society. Theres an equitable treatment amongst various subsets of groups in the free market. I think thats what were seeing here. The other is to point out that this industry is no secret, 17 billion primarily generated football and basketball players, sports that are predominately black. But one area where they might have freedom cut equal freedom is nil. The degree to which any of this money is flowing more towards football invesco place because of market interest, thats our economic system, free market capitalism. When it comes to third parties thats the whole thing. Thats we advocate from california very first nil stayed in every state between thats clearly understood and t therea bit of a blur when were talking about thirdparty nil versus things the schooly gives directly. Again if the collective is an extension of the school than it should be title ix should apply. Title ix is the law. Its enforceabletl now. Complaints should go to the department of Education Office of civil rights, comp lawsuits. I dont know if its appropriate for congress to start dictating what the free market should look like only for College Athletes which may so happen to take money out of black athletes pockets. After the first couple of years and then finally getting equal treatment i think that would be inappropriate and misguided. Anybody else . I would like to respond to that as well and you speaking to title ix for the collective standpoint, what were seeing, remember were just not in year this marketplace of it still evolving. Were still adjusting but iev cn tell you on the ground level from a tree and standpoint we are correction of revenue sports, football and mens possible and selfgovernance at taking place with with ther contracting with the student athletes. The inverse is happening for our nonrevenant and women sports. Were seeing more and more deals that are asking for female and all but. I know speaking from University Mississippi standpoint we rrr female roster of nil from last year to this year. Our first team wide to deal at ole miss with the womens team. Ball some of thehe highest earners ia l. A. s told senator graham are female athletes. Now theres not as many of them of what i would just encourage everybody to whether title ix applies to us from a collective standpoint or not it would not change how we operate. We are operating to have a very diverse and inclusive athlete roster because at the end of the day thats what brands want in that create m more value when we have brand campaigns and were outsiderequests from brands more from fema student athletes. So that train is developing. Is it acceptable to this point . Not acceptable, but it is moving in the right direction. So while youre high revenue sports are selfgoverning and correcting themselves your nonpregnant female sports are seeing a boost as the figures are showing and what were seen at the ground level. Mr. Chairman, i will put the rest of the questions for answers in riding. Thank you, senator grassley. Welcome to do so. Thank you. Senator coons. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Swarbrick, i read with great Interest Rate of 12 along with father jenga said just want to lift up your focus on College Athletics as part of the route to education to leadership and the opportunity. Your focus and your support for medical trust fund and graduation guarantees i thought was admirable. I want to focus in on one area which is whether or not student athletes should be considered employees. This is currently being examined in the Third Circuit and the nlrb and that sparked fierce opposition from your institution as well as the institution as well as university of delaware in my home state. Why does notre dame oppose classified student athletes as employees and whatt you think a harmful impact would be on athletics across the university of notre dame and then across more broadly institutions of all sizes, if that were to happen . What defines the unique american model of Intercollegiate Athletics cardi b click doesnt exist else. Its a club system ever what else in the world. Is the integration intold the educational institution. It is thehe opportunity to all f the same rights and privileges as any other student. And if you put them in a separate category with all the consequences that of an articulated here, that goes away immediately. S and we no longer have the model that we understand as Intercollegiate Athletics today, and fundamentally separate somes educational value, as president Baker Association point that regulate, the vast, vast majority of student athletes are not going on to continue this up sport after they leave college for it is a is the educatis a primary value of their experience. We have to protect that. We have to protect their ability to be admitted under the same standards, to get educated under the same standards, and to learn under the same standards. If you takeea that away you do enormous damage to those current students. This is the time of huge change in College Athletics and as the chair and Ranking Member has said we need to act. Mr. An swarbrick thank you for yr testimony and go irish. Ms. Bodensteiner if i might, either some factors that are applicablepl across as additions of all sizes . Your Athletic Director atit a school with a different profile the maybe a Big Ten University the university of notre dame. Other specific factors that are key to your institution and others like it in the greater philadelphia area and across our country that coke should keep in mind as we attempt to draft nil legislation that would preempt state legislation and apply to all the universities in america . I i appreciate your question very much, senator, thank you. I tend to agree with colleagues at power five and other institutions when it comes to nil. I think our basketball coaches are as disappointed in what is happened in the market than anybody in the country. And so on the employment front i do think wet had some unique challenges if students athletes were to be deemed employees, and really its the expense whether through taxation, our Human Resources department is overwhelmed as we are with two mergers happening and to give them 487 i just hope employees to process, many of whom are leaving on an annual basis. Again, the taxation issues. When institution like us to and to get i cant stress enough that we are w spending 20 millin and bring in 4 million in revenue for athletics. This would just be an untenable situation which again i worry about the ability for us to continue fielding all 20 of our sport. Understood. Mr. Baker if i might just a closing question. Across the different legislative proposals that are in front of us and across the wide array of state laws, what you think of the most critical provisions for us to include in legislation moving forward . I would certainly support the state preemption issue because i mean if you think about this just at the conference level most conferences have multiple states and if youre trying to create anything that looks like a level Playing Field got to get back to theng comment about the factct there should be one set f rules for all athletes across all sports and all schools. I think thats exactlysp right. I think the employment question is obviously on everybodys mind andd im sure there are things cost schools especially those that can do it which will be the 5 i talked about before who would do far more if he felt like theyo could do it in an environment where there are student athletes were stillst students. I think the issue around safe harbor limited liability whatever it is you want to call i get the a fact its a big isse and what i i would say to cons is if you want to create some sort of framework around that and guard guardrails, that i do w worry we are going to don the road what people are going to start challenging whether ore not we should have minimum academic standards for people to be eligible to play. Are people going to change the rules around, lets suppose we pursue the role that i was talking about earlier would want to create transparency about nil because, with all due respect to you, walker, nobody knows whats going on and everything is sort of a guess and a rumor. When people say were doing much better when it comes to women student athletes and nil i dont know if thats true or not and neither does anybody else. I think we need to give the student athletes a lot more visibility into what the price signals are so they could make the best decision for them and to families under the Current System they are in trust as came with practically everybody and trinity i give the enormous credit for what you managed to do and that kind of environment with a lot of student athletes for whom that is going to be very challenging. And i think the finalgi one woud be the whole conversation that weve already had about trying to figure out sort of the best way toit deal with some of the issues with health and safety because National Standards i think wee can all support. Thank you. I think transparency, fairness and preserving the Education Mission is at the core of our education are key parts as Work Together to move t forward. Thank you to all the witness. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thanks, senator coons. Senator, kennedy. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Its clear to me from listening today that we still have a lot of work left to do i want to start with trying to look at this issue from 30,000 feet. For many years now College Athletes, College Athletics is generated enormous revenue. Im not saying thats a bad thing. A good thing. The Supreme Court comes along and what the austin case, is that right . In 2021. And changes where that money is going. Before that money was going to, to tv stations and universities and coaches and others i guess, Construction Companies that were building new stadiums, and then after the Supreme Court decides the austin case in 2021, the kids start getting paid. And all hell breaks loose. I mean, is that what is going on here . The fact that the money is being redistributed and thats going to cause the world to spin off its axis . Because the kids are getting a share of the dell . He governor . Re what i would say, senator, in response to the austin decision is there is flexibility for schools that can afford to make austin payments to do so and they can make payments in particular sports asin long as they manage to satisfy the title ix requirements. And they can choose what level they want to support. I understand that, but you are getting down into the wheat and im not i saying thats a bd thing. Thats what before the austin case everything was just fine, and then the austin case is handed down and the kids start getting some of the money, not the adults. The adults have got to share. And all of a sudden the world is on fire. What am i missing here . For the record i support the austin stuff. I also support nil. I just would like to see a little more transparency and support for information to make it easier for student athletes to succeed in this space. Let me make this suggestion to you and i want to hear from the rest of the panel. I would strongly encourage you and your colleagues to try to get together and come up with a new system for us to consider. Looks like somebody decided on purpose. You may regret asking congress to intervene here. All of a sudden youre going to be micromanaged. Now, im not saying we shouldnt, my colleagues have raised excellent points, and it sounds to me like we do have a bit of a cop i dont know, wild, wild west as chairman blumenthal described it. Micromanaging your business. Let me go back to the original question. Any of you, what am i missing about this . Is in this over the fact that the kids are now getting some of the money that the adults were getting before . Yes sir. Absolutely. It seems to be fine for the until we went to legislature started passing laws. The industry had a monopoly on the value. They owned every penny. Pay the school. This is about. Disclosing and set that happens, we will lose money. Like the Supreme Court, if a ilife antitrust law, thats the problem. The opposition, even employment, we dont want to pay fairly. And i owe, is not equitable economic situation, get another job because we will pay for you here. For scholarship and mommy close we cant treat every Division Schools masquerade as schools saying there are no employees here, i would imagine it would have scores, theres no congressional hearing. We are talking about equal rights and their operating in legal fashion and now its coming home. Pulling the rigid here we are. I dont mean to go over so much, we are talking about rideshare but also the money and it seems to me this controversy in part has been caused by a model of redistribution and across a lot of sympathy for kids. Adult daycare themselves but its kids that make this possible. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator kennedy, andre there before i introduce the next senator who is the coauthor with me of the protection theres no effort here to micromanage anything and i think this is excellent, even the limited benefit so far athletes have come because of a fight, and effort on the part of applicant and others here to treat athletes more barely and nobody is stronger awfully good senator booker, it existed when he is playing football. We oftenan joke i was a College Swimmer and no way anybody would offer me contact to do anything at nil. Tonight respond . Im not immigrating anybodys efforts here, im just suggesting we do need to be careful what congress decides to get involved, it really gets involved. I Want Congress trying to establish concussion protocols for each school because thats where it can lead to. Thank you very much, im grateful to have you involved, extraordinary and i want to thank Maria Cantwell was well whos done any extraordinary jb on this. This is a birthday tenure when i was elected to senate and i came to work on a lot of issues and this is definitely one of them. Two thoughts about College Sports, american culture, i would not be sitting here if it were not for the opportunity as a football i Player College americans i special the first ad i knew too many of my rents tractor bid i b saw the charges. Because coming out who had head injuries, depression and so many other now but nobody did help or support the grade i couldnt understand the extent over 80 or 70 hours playing this after football because he is able have the money to get their parents play with more money they were giving lip service to the changes that seems to only movee when they got embarrassed with her saying i couldnt afford to eat and he will championship the treatment of women present in the tournaments. Am so glad this group is here now because the folks before us extraordinary in their leadership. I cannot think president baker to be willing to work with me and my team for what i think is progressive leadership bring about change, you have been a great partner to develop something bipartisan and work on common sense progress that we have worked on this since you and i both had hair and i cannot tell you how grateful i am. What most people think should be the men and women most in the industry at the least have basic Hundreds Health and safety and justice when it comes to this. Im grateful for folks were constructive try to find a way number one to preserve College Sports now threatened in my n opinion by a lot of the wild west and i think you are correct, so much bipartisan and centered and first. Theres so much court talk to move forward and not to have unintended consequences, it was like touch but for College Athletes. Like to turn to the one athletes thoughts here, i cant thank you enoughen for being he. Youre playing at a level that is great folks understand, the metal commands, you see the challenges a lot of folks to understand while trying to balance the schedules. Mental Health Wellbeing of College Athletes and others, can you express the moment . Being a student athlete is difficult, you put on that, something whether it conditioning or training or our trainers work on bodies, its a lot and traveling on top of his a lot. Anymore technically but my former teammate make sure we are doing the best forar them. Thank you and again, so grateful for what weor are doin, i just want to g say for the record the honorable way youre doing it h talking about my best career Football Team ranked number one and all sports but im not going to talk about that at all i have gratitude for your partnership. Thank you for your restrain. You should listen to senator booker when hes unrestrained. Thanks senator booker and thanks for all your work. I second broke thanks to senator brian as well as others on the committee who have been thoughtful on this issue. Youve got a lot of work to get done. I want to make sure i heard this right, the ncaa has no duty to protect College Athletes. Could you explain that . He died during a football practice and the family sued and legal defense, no legal duty to protect athletes. Im going to ask about that but apart talking up is the universities themselves have primary responsibility for the health and safety of the student and it would seem to me if you want to set aside humanitarian actors you want every athlete to be healthy every day of the week doing the best i can to get the most people to watch their sport, it seems there is an inherent not obligation but economic driver behind trying to protect these people so its difficult to help anybody do this, it doesnt make sense to me. But the best athletes on the field every saturday and i am a football fan, its harder to follow but i want to dispense the notion that you have somebody and it seems like it would be in the forefront. It attracts people to the games and that generates revenue the economic cycle. Academic and athletic powers, how many did you say you got over your career . Twentyeight. Auto if youre not comfortable receiving right now . , answeringm that. And 9. 925 so shes one of the most highly compensated people right now but people just making enough where theyak can pay ther College Tuition they are finding ways for student athletes but they are not the big names, are we seeing other people right there education and move on to something other than the sport that attracted them . Issues that are inevitable in life, paying off a sibling student debt. Them. Ursue i think everybody is elated, i dont think theyve been paying attention. I do disagree with my colleagues dont think that i do disagree that we dont need rules of the road, this is the essence of interstate commerce so it was one of you and testimony but i guess in my remaining time, implemented patchwork, i think we have to eliminate that and create rules of the road. This is where it gets dangerous because congress has to get involved to get it right so is there a model we should be instructed by or is there a jurisdiction you have the information, we should be instructed but as we proceed down that path . I think there is an example to t look to right now. Its been motivated by a race to the r bottom so thats been a challenge. Theres one thing we could do that would address title ix issues and of the rest tried to get it where name, image and likeness and ideas has to relate name, image and likeness i guess. If we do that, the most wellknown basketball player in the country is from iowa and shes a woman. You have an equity achieved and it relates to the level of accomplishment and theres a handful of men with marketing used yet in college everybody has a team has one. We are for regulation, we are already very transparent. We support that as well. We are for the and ready to work with anybody who wants to regulate. I wouldnt put you in that position, you will have skeleton of an Athletic Program because the numbers dont work, i already dont work for you. There will be certain sports forgotten effects which begins the beginning of the end if they are at any level so thank you all for being here. We got work to do and one thing we should. Senator klobuchar. Thank you tomorrow to thank you for your work and im looking forward to working with you on both positions on judiciary thomas to get this done. The womens hockey teams, that 111 ncaa championship. Those numbers in minnesota are special. Excellent answer. Can you elaborate the new policies will help student athletes, the ones you note in your written testimony about improving financial outcomes including an area of the Financial Literacy contract terms agent registration . The Financial Literacy peace is something some schools already do, would like to see everybody required to do that. The standard contract is about doing the same thing we do every financial transaction which is a contract basic terms and if an agent wants to move off, they need to explain why they want to move. The third part is to create what i described as somewhere student athletes would make available to their schools what their deal looks like and the data would be identified and incorporated into public distribution so if you were a gymnast or football or basketball player, he would have some idea what traditionally and il looks likee for you but for somebody like you so you have idea and the final piece is to make sure we have a registry where they say they work for the customer, client because there are way too many examples. I remember we talked about that we met. How do uniform rules, we have 41 laws that emerge from how do they put schools in states without loss a disadvantage because i cannot take advantage of state laws to preempt ncaa rules . Markets create a transfer advantage no space off for students that are encouraging transfer states that have acted so far. We have a situation we compete in one conference across states, who about the mcdonalds and we have different sized stadiums but in this case states increasingly ration up what doing to improve so start that one place and goes in one direction. Is that something that will make it more difficult . It makes things more difficult and confusing. Another issue related after 50 years after shouldnt have to fight to get take you know some you cant walk in the Commerce Committee we have looked at equal pay and now requires, how could you reinsure it doesnt persist under an and il system . Combination of what has already been mentioned, one is transparencyed and getting backo legitimate and ipo deals were there capitalist market is payi, women who succeed at grade level i think it comes to getting rid of market of paying athletes to attend institutions. When we had a series we saw firsthand similar files and Kayla Maroney and Maggie Nicholas testified before the senate Judiciary Committee in 2021 by coming forward they made a difference from was being admitted to ensure, we are proud for the domestic route, i think you really love discussion so if you could just answer the. We want to make suree we shot the safest environment for student athletes and coaches and Department Number one. Since then install chief medical officer and resources in the Corporate Office and we make sure members have the best resources to make sure we guarantee a safe environment for everyone involved. Thank you and i will ask for the record about the amount on the longterm health benefits, thank you mark i think next display fellow stanford man, i think played for brightly on the soccer team. Josh hawley. Thank you, mr. Kenneth thanks to the witnesses for being here. If i, i appreciated your comments and Opening Statement about terrorist attacks on the state of israel and the need to condemn those for what they are. Let me ask about statement student groups campuses of your member schools said recently. They quote old Israeli Regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence. Students praised the heroic resistance in gaza. Students at the university of North Carolina claimed it is our mission to be at solidarity and it is knowledge. Students wrote peaceful discourse must be ejected under education and apartheid and im sure you know w university forced to close. You condemn antisemitism . I think its important as i say, someones political. The unprovoked attacks and the way we think about it. I think the plunger, i think its important for everybody s else on the political spectrum like i agree, i think its important, many Jewish American athletes im shortened Jewish American students and i think you are gesturing this, anybody on our campus and across the country, peacefully, it doesnt mean we have to condone it as if it morally acceptable auto we take a stand on the same condemn it as violent antisemitic rhetoric. Let me ask you about frederick earlier this year this Committee Heard testimony from 12 time allamerican swimmer, riley came to testified in march of 2022 National Championships where she was swimming, forced to share a locker room for the biological male in addition to being forced to give up opportunities, we were not forewarned, we were not asked for consent and we did not give our consent. Notca going to defend what happened in 2022. What i will say is we have specific rules and standards around safety and security of student athletes and anyone with National Championships and they know what they are. Does that include female athletes having to share locker rooms without consent . I dont believe that policy be the policy used today in would you support the right of student athletes to unionized . Unionize and have Bargaining Power on equalal footing to deal with the ncaa brothers over safety issues or name, image and likeness or compensation, it feels institutions have all the power, should student athletes have the right to unionize to speak with a little bit of an equal voice . The most important thing to remember is student athletes were to unionize, we have court cases on that, im more likely cannot to not want to speak specifically to those. I do have concerns ive raised before about creating a system where you put one brush on 19000 team, all 500,000 athletes and they should all be employees because i do believe in your statement the state of every Single Person on this committee literally thousands of your programs will go okay because it completely changes everything about what it means to be a student athlete and a college that supports student athletics and its a problem. I appreciate your response and candor, i will say in conclusion i think we have to find some way to get student athletes a voice and what issues raised, i think there is power disparity. One final thing, all three of our student athletes elected by their peers expressed deep concerns about being considered to be employees. I talked about, i have not talked to one yet who wants to be an employee that i think thats important. Thank you, mr. Chairman for being here about the Commerce Committee or Judiciary Committee weve been focused on what we are going to do with he and il issue and how its going to affect student athletes. We have been concerned about men and women supports and what it does to the student to experience. Congratulations to you and your outstanding record, i am absolutely delighted and we have the opportunity to hear your perspective. Donna baker, its no surprise, i want to come to you first and we are looking at suppressed work and how it affects different processes and different approaches so its going to impact schools differently and your predecessor never should give it a something would happen, give meiv a timeline and you all covid and you want to know. With respect to student athlete Transparency Information and Consumer Protection which is how i thinkt, about it, the processf being written out here. The implementation. Would be affected the next scholastic year, 2024. With respect to institutional involvement, another issue we talk a lot quite a bit here, i would expect it to be done by march would expect we would be dealing with issues around recruitment also affected august of 24. Those will be voted on by the organization but it doesnt necessarily mean the current legal Regulatory Environment everybody will comply with i believe it. With men and women, plenty expect specific guidance . You responded to senator hawley that you didnt think the situation with lia thomas and riley pain, the position would be the same so when will there be specificity on back . The rules as i said before, Transgender Athletes generally are more restrictive today than in 20. I can say pretty clearly no one into any sort of situation that will make them make that clear. Okay, thank you. It is something we have looked at and have discussed College Athletes cannot and will need repair 2 , 70 of the bankruptcy elected in your post after the students are there so how help for this 12 month ago trying to figure it out electives like last 12ng over the months a much more functional Staff Organization professional tools because of the end of the day writing a check to the should be much developing possible. But still we should protect the wellbeing to better prepare to make repair cap of the most elective we stand united for from we are already very transparent, we have our contracts on file the University Getting bad actors are in the registry and tenderized contract from we have no problems so we support a lot of what we heard today, the collective is just outdated we have evolved like the market has evolved and we are giving resources and tools and a taxpaying citizen, networking and business protecting the value ofso burnig on social media the tools delivered an obligation which is the tools whether they play a majority and tools we provide today helps. My time is expect to get might be the country. But next the evergrowing and we may find that introduction i apologize ahead of time. Thank you for your testimony and an important public. We are in a time where it seems we cant agreer on what time of day it is,ev yelling and fightig over yet every week millions come together, we stand unified and no one cares what race or ethnicity or what Political Party they are or religion promote the extent together and thats important. I get enormous joy sharing at schools every week and its true all across the country. Collegey. Athletics is an incredible i avenue for millions of young men and women to get a great education. Young men and women who might not otherwisese have an opportunity to go to college to have college paid for and to get all of the benefits participating in organized sports, most College Athletes will never play pro ball will not be covered on wheaties box nike contract but they learn discipline and teamwork and sportsmanship and furnished to be gracious winners and gracious losers and learning all sorts of skills that will help everyday ofor their life. Im worried about College Athletics right now. Jurisdiction over athletics and as each ofne the witnesses no, ive spent the past year visiting and listening to stakeholders, the ncaa, listening to conferences to universities and athletes hearing real concern about the state of College Athletics, it is a wild west and there is real risk congress doesnt act or act quickly during enormous damage to the system providing enormous benefits. Ive. Introduced legislation to address this issue and legislation i introduced takes a different approach than the other pieces of legislationon introduced lots of members. My legislation protects the front and center right athletes to enjoy the neighbors. If their skills generateng millions of massive economic powerhouse, its only a light men and women significant foods artwork but i dont think anyone is the schools and the money i just ran across and he can win at any given year, it makes it incredible to watch. I think it is important we protect College Athletes across the board so football and basketball on tv nationally. States its Important Congress ask . Yes or no. No. Yes. No, yes. The difference between judges and i another bill my bill empowers universities to set the rules of the road, a better solution than the federal government stepping in as a governmentrn agency, nobody wans to see politicians to decide and bad things will happen takespp over religious words so id like to ask everyone on the panel answer yes or no, do you believe ncaa rules or do you believe the federal government should set the rules . Its easy for me, i will go with the ncaa on one. I dont have an opinion on the. The federal government by extension of establishing a fair party. The devil is in the details. And office. Will especially of the i know it makes me think when it is my school will the student should be classified as Student Employees or not, i believe that would be a serious mistake subject scholarships to taxation and student athletes to t also regulations. With me suddenly receiver drops, would lose you scholarship, all of it seems to the back of college not to mention smaller programs eliminating small panels. The womens possible. No. No. Consent thenimous letters i got here, one is dated october 13, 2023 from poor berkeley black conferences saying any legislative plan framework classifying student athletes has employees impact the most important components for college is simply not the answer. C you. I had to all which are not unfamiliar with participating today and have heard the question National Standard that keeps getting revisited. I agree ideally there would be National Standard compromise is stated from experience. We worked hard donations for bill of rights. We conquered debates about student topics for another day resources to support their health so readily sadistic fails to include transfers from other concerns the methodology in the standard graduation 69 graduated within an self conversation today, i want to make sure the billions of dollars in profit made of performance w as a sacrifice, it supports support a college degree. We call it student athlete, not the students. The student persons first. What exists today and what protections are needed . Thank you for the work youve done in the past setting a great example of what states can do. If you look at the survey from a few years ago on top of both time school, that is not going to change the schedule of games make sure they have turned to graduate but without enforcement, its not going to happen. It is at the state level, Graduation Rates would trigger requirements for Additional Support whether its tutoring or anything else. If they call them, not just athletes or athlete students money and what recommendations do you have support students . First, competition will not really much more pressure will travel, helping some of the actual issues need to be addressed should prioritize public mental. I think it is time for california, will be for governor baker. Follow the 2021 Supreme Court decision didnt athletes forced to choose between collegiate eligibility and in il contacts. As all of you know hosting 2028 olympic and paralympic games, it is well underway for sure the successor team usa and address remaining barriers to participationur by student athletes. You mentioned the programs have significant pipeline for team usa. Other barriers for student athletes who are also olympic athletes . Olympic Training Programs and products during the games i like to get back to you on writing, a really important question and i dont want to get it wrong so i will get you an answer in writing. Thank you, mr. President baker, turned to chris. A few minutes ago i cant ask questions related to riley kids. She was here are a few mexico testified in front of this committee another drink how the ncaa is going to against her she was required to compete against a biologically male athlete, riley lia thomas. Sherry with that same biologically male athlete. Female swimmer was so uncomfortable being required without advance notice to share changing facilities with a biologically male competitor she supply closet incident. Senator asked the b question, noting that occurred before you came on as president , i understand that and i look forward to those things not happening but it is still relevant to ask whats been done so have you apologized to those athletes the trauma inflicted on them . Again, senator. Im not going to speak to or defend what happened in 2022. My question. Im assuming youre asking the ncaa, i dont know the answer to that so i will get back to. Tell me what rules and regulations and restrictions and policies you may have put in place to allow these things to prevent these things from happening in the future. I can tell you standards with respect to participation for trans athletes implement sports have been adjusted and continue to be adjusted based on conversations and am happy to put it in writing. Suffer from issue of competing, what about the question of sharing changing facilities come up to have policies adopted since then stress together issue . Is it a means they are allowed to know in advance when they might be required to share changing facilities with a biologically male studentci athlete . Number two after notifying them policies and procedures are in place to allow m them to make alternative arrangements for changing facilities . To make our policies with respect for safety and security for those participating is explicit about making clear student should not be forced into uncomfortable situations. I will confirm that would involve situations like the one you are raising here so ill get that in writing. As a former student athlete when you played, you werent about to receive y compensation. Players now are about to profit based on their name, image and likeness, great benefits for the student athlete and athletics more broadly because in il, some players may choose to stay in college longer and longer showcase their talents and pursue degrees instead of leaving early to play in the pros. The university of utah recently arranged for players to get leases on trucks which i know all enjoy, you speak to the role electives play Going Forward . Thank you for your question. As i explained, i think the role evolved the last 12 years and thankfully so for the student athletes. An organization to write a check or compensate now turned into a resource that provides tools and transparency area that didnt have any so got to remember student athletes, this is a new environment, something theyve never experienced trying to navigateme its overwhelming to make sure they didnt do anything that would inhibit eligibility and we have taken theac approach in our associatin try to make this as much of it will. Financial literacy is important to understanding someone pays you the service of the obligation and all those things speak to making them more functional members of society when they leave our campus so evolved to create a structure where we provide guidance and resources and knowledge and we stand ready to accept cap oversight hundred and ready to work with our colleagues because we are lucky enough we deal with everyday and we dont buy into all thet negativity, other thins need to adjust . Absolutely. Overall impact the health and wellbeing of studentathletes is overwhelming positive if we are doing our part, we can provide transparent details to stakeholders to provide necessary items and make the most important decisions but we are much more about development competition. I appreciate all of you. Have been drawn senator manchin the opportunity to make a statement and i will have a few dozen questions. First of all, thank you. I think were losing sight of the word student, becaused basically allowing them to switch her at as he can right now with portals and everything else, the chances of graduating is slim to none. Something has to be done. So heres what weve done. We haveie a piece of legislation senator blumenthal and i shared it with you and all that. Myself and Tommy Tuberville whose we put up build together which is called the past act. What would try to do is kind of put some guardrails if you will for boosters and collectivese to make sure they associate with the schools and in sync with the schools for the purpose of making coordination. Were not trying to harm any student from able to sell their value. We just dont believe it should be auctioned off school against school. Pretty simple. If youve got that value and that talent your tiktok wouldve you are, get yourself a lawyer cant get yourself an agent and go to it. Just dont come to Western University basically say they want to be this much and now maryland will give me this much, or soandso. Were trying to take it out of it. The other thing is moderating the transfer port. I was fortunate to get a scholarship and got hurt very early. Back then in 60s they kept me. Didnt have to. Right now if i got a division i scholarship, division i School Scholarship for scholarship in one of the major sports they are committed to keeping me for four years to get an education. Bob leighton is unlike committed to stay. I can leave the first month if im unhappy. They told them going to play quarterback and i go in alone said you but me a defensive back. Im sorry, im going somewhere else. That is not what developing young athlete is about. They are going to have to be structured and coaches somewhere. So were putting guardrails on that. Three years. Freshman, sophomore, junior. Junior after that go anywhere you want to. That coaches adages. To the still. The still going to be a waiver provision. Ive spoken to commission make about all these things and if you see a bill, if not will make sure you receive it. Providing transparency about these are operating, clarifying the nil activities which are just talked about. Providing additional protection for student athletes. The bottom line is they should call our main goal is to get them and education, get them a skill set. There is than 2 the go into nfl or the nba or whatever they may think they would love to do. We all have those grandeur dreams your doesnt work out always. Thats the most important thing. The other thing i dont know if you all have considered that most of the students athletes are receiving pell grants. So that means the federal government is paying through pell grants for the most highest valued part of scholastic is basically the money that comes in through the large sports programs. And that doesnt seem fair to me. All these schools have other students that wasen indeed pell grants very badly but theres enough value within a system that would pay for those students. I dont think anyone and that it that it happened that way. It justt has evolved. I dont know if yall were unaware of that. Its been brought to my attention. N. N. I think thats something has to be corrected. Enforcing oversight, also health and safety, and our bill basically says youll takeca cae of the student athlete eight years after they finish their playing days or curriculum or graduate. That means it has to be a sport related injury to the sport they played. They probably be an orthopedic things of that sort. E we can make sure they have the full value of having a quality of a healthy education and have helped elect to provide for themselves and their family, but also the experience of the student athlete. They are coming in as professionals now. The nil has basically just about destroyed what i know the system was and that was supposed to be. Heck, i would have paid to let them for them to let me go play. The level of thehe sports odds o be there. If its all about chasing the dollar from when youre on pop warner teams and your parents areen pushing you and all this, thats not what it was designed to be. So if theyre that good, go right in from high school to the pros. Dont come to this College System and t basically have an auction bid. Thats not what it was intended to be. I know everyone has different opinions about this. Ive heard everything from players union. You want to really screw up school and screwtop like everything else, try that went on. Dynamite is going to get hurt the worst. And dont even looking at that to the point to where we are just what about the two major sports that have all the money. So ive got a lot of problems, i really do, r with this costing t up close and personal. Seeing a lot of young men and women who have learned a tremendous contributions to society, not through athletics after they finished athletic scholarship they had. They did it because they were developed young people who were matured enough to go out and share their value. Thats been tremendous. I think ive always said this. I never could figure out when we were in scope you to get tickets and we would sell the tickets and that would give some spending money. We get 30 a month for laundry. That was it. I said thats pretty good. We got almost live on 30 a month back in the 60s. We felt good about all these things but than we thought man, thats b a bonus, i didnt expet that. And then i says so, so my classmates and myla ballplayers, their own parents could afford to come watch them play. And if a woman tried to pay to get the period there, it was a violation. Crazy. I said how come your mom is not here . I grandma, she cant afford it. I just said we got to fix that. So i know all have good intentions. Guys, you can do to help us. If not were going to do something i think one of the greatest pastimes weve ever had, no matter where you went to school, no matter if you played or not, you are still there, still part of you and your system but the youre waiting forti the kids. And anymore its kind of hard to read for the kids when you are starting out as multimillionaires as freshmen and sophomore. Thats my two cents. Mr. President , senate. Senator blumenthal been so kind. Where a lot of the same concerns and a different opinion about should be done but if you help us we can make changes. I think we really can. Its going to be constructed. Mr. Baker, charlie baker, my friend, im so glad you are where you are. I think he could but basically some common sense to this thing. I dont think we would never be that if we didnt have the strength of Leadership Back when the sting evolved workout today so hoping all of us to Work Together and take the politics out of it. I know its hard to do that anywhere, but if you can take theto politics out and be able o look at whats our purpose, that student athlete of the best experienced in her life to a basic contributing quality adult to get something back. 90 of them could do that. About 2 say, make a fortune in the arena. So thank you. Thanks, senator manchin. I have a few closing questions which i would like to post to the panel as a whole. A whole. Some of you may be aware that International Students are treated differently than american citizens who are College Athletes. Ive raised the issue of foreign student athletes being able to benefit with nil, actually secretary mayorkas, the visa system puts those athletes at risk of losing their legal status here if they earn any nil money in my view this kind of discrimination is deeply unfair to them and outdated, for example, International Students like odama sonogo, star in the ukon husky Basketball Team and a significant part of our victory last year is totally unable to earn any nil benefits despite court. Discipline and determination are equally deserving of monetary reward in my opinion. Let me ask the panel as a whole maybe beginning with governor baker, would you support changes in our laws and regulation permit those International Students who may not be citizens to benefit from their nil status without fear of losing their visas or other . Absolutely. Absolutely, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes and we actually do contract with International Student athletes. Yes. Yes. And just to be clear, mr. Jones, its not a question of whether schools would be willing to let them or sponsors would be willing to pay them, its their status if they accept such payment under our current visa laws, thats what we need to change so thank you for helping them but they are still at risk of losing their legal status . Yes, i agree. We havent talked much about enforcement, former prosecutor, most of my career has been spent in Law Enforcement and whatever standards are adopted, whatever reforms are enacted, they will be meaningless unless they are enforced. The bill draft bill that senator booker and i and senator morna have written would establish a federally chartered College Athletics corporation. Id like to ask all of you again whether you think the enforcer is important and whether you have specific views on who should be doing it. Governor baker . A couple of things. One is i think thats a conversation we have had and im happy to continue to have. I do have some concerns of details. We should talk about that a little. Ive had some interesting experiencing with ags since ive got the problem. And before probably too. Before too. Well, i would welcome continuing our conversation about it. Mr. Patitti . I would need more about the structure to have a strong opinion. Initially more incline to see if we can figure out a way for nca would do this. I would also need more information to have an opinion. Mr. Homa . Its important that enforcement be conducted by an entity independent of colleges and ncaa. I believe the industry wants enforcement when it comes to policing, could be the same entity like health and safety and protect College Athletes. We are certainly open to oversight and governance for sure. Im worried of lack of enforcement on state laws such as nil laws an laws that exist right now. Im not sure the states have been active in enforcing those. I think increasing the effectiveness of enforcement is a critical area that has to be addressed. Im not sure i dont have enough detail to respond to that proposal. Well, i thank you all for your willingness to talk but let me just emphasize the real test here is going to be whether the rules are enforced. Best rules are dead letter unless they are enforced. Im certainly more than happy to hear from you about how the enforcement should be done but in my view independent effective well resourced and interpretation forral for intenl enforcement is key to making this whole system work not just on nil but on health and safety, on scholarships, on medical trust fund, on all the good things that weve agreed are important and if we are heading now toward the wild, wild west and dangerous chaos with a patch work of different measures, National Standard on any of these issues will depend on enforceability and, in fact, someone willing to take the reins and we know they dont have resources to do to court and theres psychological pressure to take it. Suck it up, do with the program. State enforcement so far has been lacking, so i would not rely exclusively on state enforcement whether its by attorneys general or anyone else and i would not rely exclusively on federal agency. I would allow the athletes themselves to do to court but i think there has to be some enforcing agency here or entity. Obviously we are talking about a cleaning athletes corporation which is not the ftc or an existing Government Agency but im open to considering one of those Enforcement Mechanisms as well. I think the other area that governor baker has rightly emphasized it is transparency. We need prompt full accurate disclosure here and i think that message has come across from this panel very compellingly and forcibly and i think it is a fact of life that a lot of these very relevant issues need more sunlight more disclosure and transparency and i thank you for your willingness to work on that. You commented eloquently. The panel has seemingly has said no the employee classification except for mr. Huma and i would like to just ask you to maybe elaborate on the exception that you would make to barring employee status. Sure, that would be to really look at equal rights under the law but we know we are not talking about high school athletes, top football and basketball and the discussion is happening. Athletes are generating much more revenue that they are receiving in terms of fair pay, theres a lack of workplace protections as well and also to senator hawleys point the ability to eventually have some real say and collectively bargain with an industry that is hostile. We are talking about people are discussing closing the door on the employee status without paying fairly. It hasnt come up in the hearing. Thats one of the pivotal points and issue put to the side because i dont think congress will pay College Athletes and i dont think education would ban a lot of issues we can come to agreement on but that issue is not one of them. Only for some sports and some schools . Correct. And what the athlete didnt want to be an employee . Theres throughout our conversations in all the different states athletes from the committees or colleges committees that bowled say, hey, i would rather not have an nil, that would divert money from my school. You have to take it you have to understand that the athletes they may truly have a difference of opinion but it shouldnt negate the entire nation, you know, rights and progress. What is equal rights under the law. I dont think that congress should be creating special status is what i heard but secondclass citizenship. When you carve out players from rights, thats a big issue and we oppose that. I think we will continue to talk about this issue and im certainly sympathetic to collective bargaining. Im champion for unions and the vital role they play in employment setting and id like to continue this conversation with you. I think one of the objectives here is to guaranty fairness and protection to athletes in all schools and all sports and perhaps that kind of exception makes sense for some cleanings and some sports but i think the line drawn maybe difficult to do but we can continue this conversation. I am grateful to all of you for being here today. Its been a remarkably productive and informative hearing each of you has brought a perspective that is singular and extraordinarily significant and i want to thank all of you. I think that one point that comes across loud and clear is that the present system isnt working. It is broken and the corrective action taken so far is commendable but so far inadequate and that congress has to do its job to protect student athletes. Thank you all for being here today. The record will remain open for thank you all for being here today. The record will remain open for one week for questions that may be submitted for any additional comment and we welcome them that you want to add in riding, and with that the hearing is closed. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] cspan is your unfiltered view of government. We are funded by these Television Companies and more including charter communications. Charter is proud to be recognized as one of the best internet providers and were just Getting Started building 100,000 miles ofew infrastructure to reach those who need it most. Charter communications supports cspan as a Public Service along with these other Television Providers giving you a frontrow seat to democracy. Booktv every sunday on cspan2 features leading authors discussing the latest nonfiction books. At 8 p. M. 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