Transcripts For CSPAN2 Hearing 20240703

2 05. Good morning. The judiciary subcommittee on crime is called to order. Mr. Biggs we thank you for being here. We will begin with the pledge of allegiance offered by the gentleman from california, mr. Kiley. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Mr. Biggs thank you, mr. Kiley and thank each of you. Without objection the chair is authorized to declare a recess at any time. And welcome to todays hearing victims of Violent Crime. The gentlelady from washington, d. C. , to question witnesses. We are grateful to have ms. Norton visiting with us today. I recognize myself for an Opening Statement. We welcome again each of you to our hearing today in the Nations Capital and thank all of our witnesses and grateful to have you here. The crime we are witnessing a few blocks from this building is unprecedented. No section of this city is considered safe anymore and the man of prosecuting the criminals has abandoning his responsibilities u. S. Attorney for the district of columbia appointed by President Biden failing to prosecute criminals. His office has declined to prosecute criminals. The u. S. Attorneys office for the district of columbia opted against prosecuting 67 of arrests presented in the d. C. Superior court. To provide context, 15,000 arrests made in d. C. , 2,000 did not go to prosecution. In 2015, they declined to 30 of cases. And failing to puerto rico crimes. In prosecute. It went from of 5 cases of prosecuted and 65 of cases dropped, a complete reversal that has had a catastrophic. Mr. Graves indicated the cases are primarily illegal gun possession and illegal drug possession cases. We can anticipate that my democratic colleagues will call for more gun control. But his hand picked prosecutor refuses to enforce gun laws already on the books. Violent crime rates in washington, d. C. , have seen a significant spike this year. The district surpassed 200 homicides. And quickest it has hit this mark. Violent crime is up 38 from the same time last year. For example, october 4, 2023, 550 carjackings which an alarming 75 involved weapons. There has only been 113 arrests for carjackings and juveniles responsible for 65 of those carjackings. October 4, year to date statistics for 2023 revealed 216 homicides, 123 cases of sexual abuses, 2, 056 robberies and assault with dangerous weapons. As october 4, 2023, the district has witnessed 4,000 105 violent ripes and 21, 980 property crimes. The criminals know they will not be prosecuted. Matthew graves is not the only one soft on criminals in washington, d. C. City leadership blasted the budget by 15 million in 2021. Washington, d. C. , city council embolden criminals. The council to overhaul the criminal code which reduced the sentence and eliminated mandatory minimums. That was vetoed by the mayor which was overridden. The bill was so radical bipartisan majorities in the house and Senate Passed a resolution to prohibit it from becoming law and havent biden signed it. In the wake of 2020 murder of george floyd they passed Police Reform legislation that changed policing in the district. City leadership has not supported Law Enforcement and that shows up in recruiting and failure to retain officers that they have spent money training and has simply been let go. We will hear from a former u. S. Assistant attorney and victims of crime on ways to make the city safe again. I have two articles that im going to enter into the record one called the d. C. City council failed at Justice Reform and d. C. Murder problem. They will be admitted into the record without objection. Seeing none. Im going to show a short video. [video] bullets went flying. Eight people shot and killed in the district. Shooting. Two women are dead. 80 of that, majority of that are just fine. Mr. Biggs i thank the witnesses for being here and i look forward to your testimony and the audience and members of the committee being here. I yield to the Ranking Member ms. Jackson lee. Ms. Jackson lee thank you for your courtesies and thank you to my colleagues that are here, Ranking Member nadler, congresswoman mcdaght, congresswoman dean and representative congresswoman Eleanor Holmes norton is present today. Make as many efforts to hear her voice. Let me be very clear we are in the midst of disarray and we are in a very serious caucus meeting. Please forgive us for any short delay you may have seen. It is no offense intended. First thing i want to say those who have been victims of crime that there is no greater responsibility those of us in congress and those of us in local government and those who lead cities to realize that our people, the people are our greatest responsibility. I want to be a Problem Solver and crime fighter. Having lived here even before i was a member of congress and enjoys the blessings of being a resident of the district of columbia or working in the district of columbia, i can assure you i have a great affection for this story separate and apart and role and i tell my Elementary School children how important washington is. We need to be serious about what has happened to you as a victim and my colleagues seem to want to ex acknowledger rate not your injury and the fear, but the idea that we were also attacked on january 6, 2021 and no voices from the other side of the aisle that the violence that came to this city and no interest in voting for the commission that we were trying to put forward. I want to make sure when this hearing gets through that we have solutions for you and either work with federal funds which i know that your members are working on. As i do so, this is a challenging moment. We embrace our victims and want them to be in essence, never victims again, but protected in the status that theyre in. But in the record, i must play, the 10 cities that employ the most Police Officers, washington ddz 42. 9100,000. Doesnt mean that more are needed but means we need to Work Together. The most that spent the most on residents, washington, d. C. , number 1, 751 per person. So we need to find a way to get to the core of the violent criminals off the street. This uptick is concerning not only for the residents who call this city home especially in the areas of the city that bear the brunt of the most violence and those who come to experience history, culture, its warmth. I hope we have a again indiscussion. We cant win by finger pointing. And we have no speaker. It is essential that congress prioritize the safety and security those who live work and visit by ensuring the federal government and we must do our part and i am big believer in local resources. District of columbia is unique and complex relationship it shares with the federal government while the status of the Nations Capital. We are in here as guests but we create an extra financial burden. The district of columbia has taken an pro appointed by the mayor to fill in gaps for violent criminals. Holding more of these criminals now both in Law Enforcement. And and we know that we have to work with juveniles. We know they are in the midst going and those in the late 20s the gun violent incidents. We understand that. So enhancing the use of technology, cameras to combat crime and has Crime Prevention strategies and jail and Job Opportunities. There is a crime wave across america. Every city has to take responsibility and i realize that because people are in pain but the districts response to any type of crime can be complicated by overlapping jurisdictions and responsibilities. I want to find a smoother way of finding that Common Ground to Work Together along with your distinguished member of congress. The federal governments is providing creating challenges. We ant to despite the obvious need for agencies to Work Together and share information vital to Public Safety like the identity of an individual who has committed several robberies and communications can be stymied by red tape. We need to ensure coordination between the multiple agencies over different areas of the criminal Justice System. I hope our witnesses will offer solutions and establish cooperation between local and federal Law Enforcement and consider the resources required to combat Violent Crime. Wraparound services and helping those that can get out of the criminal mindset. Lets not eliminate that opportunity and deal with Mental Health services that may be engaged. The local and federal governments must continue investments and resources, Crime Prevention programs and and as they proceed local governments, the need for additional Law Enforcement officers. Public safety. Helping to support the districts ability to address the underlying causes of Violent Crime. I spoke to the u. S. Attorney to Matthew Graves who loves this city and will have the same impact on him as any other person who may be subject to the acts of a violent criminal. He is using every tool that he has available to address Violent Crime, carjackings and robberies and flow of illegal guns from states of via and georgia. I did not hold up of the inquition. He assured me they are at a point that 0 of individuals arrested for the most serious Violent Crimes, are being prosecuted. Also noted that a significant decrease in the number of cases decline rate of 70 . He is working to get rid of that number and to prosecute cases. So there is a stitching together and a work we must do a lot to help move forward and get it on its feet and get it where it is moving cases forward. We can be helpful in that and i hope the congresswoman will allow us to be helpful or instruct how best to do this. As democrats offer solution after solution to make all American Communities safer, it is important that we rid the strengths of illegal firearms, hold offenders, address the root cause of poverty and republicans have yet to join us on all of these issues. Cant just point the finger. The surge in Violent Crime in the district is a problem. I want to hug every victim and i want to say i dont want you to be a victim. I dont want victims in houston, texas. We need to live safely in the nation and our community and establish stronger partnerships, sharing information and making sure we are together as not only washingtonians as we are now. Im yielding a second to congresswoman Eleanor Holmes norton and comment on the record. She will be yielded . Thank you very much. Thank you. By establishing this ability to Work Together, my goal here is to sit here and listen to you and my mind will be calculating how we continue to work with you, your mayor, your Law Enforcement, your washingtonians and slept member of congress and the federal government to do what we are supposed to do which is to ensure the National Safety of the American People. With that, i yield. Mr. Biggs i thank the gentlelady. Without objection, the gentleman from maryland, mr. Ivy will be able to participate tom question. I recognize the chairman for his. Mr. Jordan crime is out of control and Everybody Knows it and Everybody Knows why. When you defund the police and have prosecutors who go soft on crime, you get more crime. Doesnt take a genius. Did field hearings in new york and chicago and everybody tells us the same thing and disparage the pee men and women who put on the uniform, you get a shortage of Police Officers and more crime. Never forget, bad guys arent stupid but just bad. And they arent going to get prosecuted if they get caught, they do bad things. We have to all understand. This is as basic as it gets. I thank the chairman for this hearing. We have heard this in new york and chicago and going to other cities. We have to change this and say to our Law Enforcement, thank you, thank you for doing a tough job, thats what is at stake here. I thank you for this hearing and our witnesses for being here and i yield back. Mr. Biggs i thank the chairman. I recognize mr. Nadler for his Opening Statement. Mr. Nadler no one should be afraid in their own community. No one should be afraid to walk to school go to Neighborhood Park or go home to families. We share a commitment to protecting our communities and thank our impacted witnesses for sharing their stories. The covid19 pandemic destabilized many communities nationwide exacerbating port and joblessness and young people without the daily structured mentors. Some cities have recovered from the effects of the pandemic, washington, d. C. , has more work to do to improve Public Safety. Make no mistake, our republican colleagues have not called this haying hearing to solve d. C. Problems and they called a hearing on victims in manhattan after District Attorney charge President Trump with multiple. And held a round table in chicago mere days before a potential Government Shutdown and so too today as republicans struggle to elect a new speaker, sending the house in chaos and dysfunction, this will distract the American People. We wont fall for it. Republican majority offers no policy solutions that will protect citizens of washington, d. C. They seek to flood these cities with more guns and work against meaningful legislation to invest in our communities and improve safety measures. The house passed the victims act to provide money to Law Enforcement to help solve homicides. 178 republicans voted against it. 178 republican members who opposed the bill to help prosecute murderers. 55 republicans opposed the invest protect act. 300 million in grants and Law Enforcement agencies. And now the republicans are in the majority not only have we not taken any of these bills back up but looking to cut funding with dozens of Critical Services that support state and local Law Enforcement. How is this supposed to protect victims of Violent Crime in washington, d. C. . D. C. Has the highest per capta spending pee in the country and largest per capta police force and most officers per resident than any city in the country. D. C. Is investing in Law Enforcement and will keep investing in Law Enforcement but democrats know this is part of the answer. Law enforcement to be effective, it has to have the trust of the community it serves. Officers have to be able to get tips from Community Members to solve crimes. Thats why we supported the George Floyd Justice and policing act to promote accountability and strengthen public trust. 212 House Republicans, all of them at the time voted against it. Communities of fewer homicides when there are fewer illegal guns. We established federal gun and straw purchasing in the bipartisan policing act and became law over the objection of 192 republicans. Crime prevention is much more than Law Enforcement. We passed the break the cycle of violence act to invest in job Training Programs for 1624yearolds. 207 republicans voted against it. Time and time democrats have put safety relations to fund Law Enforcement to support local and provide Job Opportunities and combat untrafficking. Republicans have opposed these efforts and offering hearing after hearing that offers nothing more than a press release. These are political stunts and not a solution that republicans have to offer. And dont forget when a violent of rightwing extremists stormed the capitol on january 6, few of our colleagues were worried about Violent Crime. When that mob including Capitol Police and d. C. Metro police came to provide support many of our republican colleagues downplayed the brutality. When Speaker Pelosi brought forward a bill tore honor the police with gold medals, 21 republicans including members of this committee voted against it. A statistic that came up at a different hearing which also intended to beat up on d. C. And came up in the chairmans Opening Statement this morning. The attacked u. S. Attorney declining to charge 57 and in fiscal year 2022 implying that he is soft on crime. What they didnt mention is that the rate of charges for the serious Violent Crimes is much higher, it is 90 . Some cases are not resulting in charges because there isnt enough evidence at the time of arrest to support a charge. U. S. Attorneys office continues to investigate these cases. Those charges are not reflective in that misleading statistic. Some charges are not pursued because the victim doesnt want to press charges or the government doesnt have enough evidence to proceed. U. S. Attorneys and federal officials and if he wants to do more, give him more resources but that require real action from the republican majority that cant manage the functions of government and they want to defund the f. B. I. And a. T. F. And other Law Enforcement agencies than Offering Solutions to our communities. I look forward about how Many Solutions that the democrats have offered and improve Public Safety in d. C. And across our nation. Unlike our colleagues, we are ready to act. I yield back. Biggs briggs without objection all the mr. Biggs i will introduce todays witnesses. Detective pemberton. He is a Police Detective and represents 3600 officers and testified about the challenges that Police Officers face on the job. Are you not retired . Active duty detective. Mr. Biggs maybe i got i think i did get that wrong. Ill take you up on the retirement. Mr. Biggs i apologize. The a veterans focused bar on june 29, 2023, he was attacked while his four yield son. Assailant pointed a gun. D. C. Prosecutors offered him a plea deal. Mr. Mitchell was robbed at gunpoint in washington, d. C. , and his assailant had his sentence to reduce and went on to rob additional people. The Deputy Director of the edwin meese and and issues related to National Security and armed conflict. Ms. Richards a firefighter and paramedic in washington, d. C. On july 21, 2020, she was assaulted and beaten. One of her attackers case was dropped and other was sentenced to 60 hours of community service. Deputy mayor serves as deputy mayor for Public Safety. And served as assistant general counsel and interim director of youth recommendation services. And the chair of the Violent Crime working group and research focuses on Violent Crime and other Public Safety problems. Thank you for being here today. We look forward to your testimony. Its important and i know you are going to provide us with some real enlightenment today. Would you each please rise and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is true on the best of your information, knowledge and belief. The witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Your written testimony will be entered into the record in its entirety. We ask that you summarize your testimony in five minutes and the light will go yellow when you have a minute left and hear me tap right about five minutes and you know to wrap up. So we are going to begin with mr. Simpson, first, you are recognized for five minutes. Mr. Stimson standinger for letting me testifying here this morning. Im testifying in my own capacity to offer solutions. In the last 30 years i practiced criminal law as a criminal defense lawyer. Prosecutor at the local, state, and federal level in four different jurisdictions and trial judge in navy j. A. G. Corps. I served as an assistant attorney general. I was born in the district. Let me state by saying the obvious. The goal of the criminal Justice System is narrow but noble. Its to help solve crime. Its to enforce the criminal laws on the books in a fair, constitutional, and predictable manner. Not designed to fix societys ills. We have a murder problem in this city. If d. C. Was a state, it would have the highest homicide per 100,000 residents of all states. In my testimony i want to address five quick points. First, the d. C. Sit kreu councils laws and statements by members of that council have eroded accountability and contributed to the rise of crime across the city. They have proven themselves incapable of create ago revised criminal code for the district. Their goal was to shrink the system not hold criminals accountable. They had a deincarceration agenda the start. The laws they passed were so radical they eliminated you will minimum mandatory sentences for all crimes except first degree murder. Second, d. C. U. S. Attorneys Office Currently has policies and practice that is undermine Public Safety in the city. Let me give you two examples. One. Guns. The use of guns by a career felon is a huge problem in this city. Every single day m. P. D. Arrests felons with firearms. Instead of prosecuting them in Federal District court under 18u. S. C. 922g where they receive a mandatory minimum sentence of at least five years, the office takes those dayses cases to d. C. Superior court where they get probation and hardly ever prison time. Thats a policy choice. Another example, the office has a 67 declination rate. It was 31 in 2015. The same size office, 330 prosecutors exist in san diego. Over a 20year period that office has had a 22. 6 rate. San diego doesnt have a crime problem. D. C. Does. Third, the judges of the d. C. Superior court have eroded accountability in the crimes in a Justice System by the notoriously light sentences across all categories of crime contributing to a culture of lawlessness in our city. The local Appeals Court in the city, d. C. Court of appeals, has issued opinions in the last few years that congress should review since they have caused restrictions to be placed on Law Enforcement authorities and prosecutors that are far beyond the requirements of the u. S. Supreme court has precedent. Fourth, d. C. Attorney generals office, or o. A. G. , handles skwruf nile crimes of the for decades has failed in its mission to hold violent criminals accountable including murderers and armed carjackers. Most youths, need to be an are harpbld in the juvenile just sissies tell Justice System. We need one in our country. But there are certain crimes that should be handled in the adult court. Congress should strip the o. A. G. From prosecuting all crimes and give that to the d. C. Utahs attorneys office. Finally, the d. C. Crime labs lost of certification or suspension of its certification is empwhraepl pwhr epl mattic of d. C. s dysfunctional government as a whole. Opened in 2012 at the cost of 210 million, the crime lab has had problems from the beginning. It has had its accreditation suspended in 2021. The u. S. Attorneys office had to use other labs. If the lab gets its accreditation back next year, there is no guarantee it will lose it again. Its time to solve the problem and offer a solution. Congress should federalize the lab and give it to the anybody anybody, d. E. A. , and a. T. F. Which would handle all d. N. A. , firearms, fingerprint, and other forensic requests. In conclusion, the crime problem here is a manmade problem. Criminal Justice Reform is not rocket science. The vast majority of the victims of Violent Crime in our city are minorities. They deserve to live in peace. They deserve to sleep well at night and not worry about their kids getting shot. They deserve just like the rest of us their Public Safety privilege in their neighborhood. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to your questions. Chair biggs thank you, mr. Stimson. Now well go to mr. Pepl pwerton bemberton. Thank you. I recognize you for five minutes. Mr. Pemberton good morning members of the committee. Thank you for this opportunity to testify. As the chairman of the d. C. Police union i speak on behalf of approximately 3,000 sworn Police Officers, detectives, and sergeants who serve the district of columbia as members of the metropolitan Police Department. Im a detective, worked for the city for 18 years and take pride in serving the city. Much of my testimony here today will be a redirection of testimony i provided to the House Oversight committee seven months ago. Since that hearing crime rates in the district have continued to skyrocket. This testimony will focus on issues related to Public Safety, crime, and Law Enforcement. More specifically numerous actions by the d. C. Council to include their rhetoric has resulted in a mass exodus of sworn Law Enforcement officers and exponential increases in Violent Crime. Beginning in june of 2020, the d. C. Council began introducing antipolice legislation designed in their own words, to quote, act accordingly to bend the arc of justice, end quote. Id like to provide a list of some of the legislation the d. C. Council would introduce over the course of the next two years. The comprehensive policing Justice Reform Amendment Act. The strengthening oversight and accountability of Police Amendment act. Provides crime revised criminal cold Amendment Act. Reducing Law Enforcement presence in schools act. The Law Enforcement qualified immunity cessation act. The Law Enforcement impression act. The Law Enforcement vehicle pursuit reform act. The School Police incident oversight and accountability Amendment Act. And the White Supremacy in policing prevention act. The rhetoric that Council Members used when speaking publicly of Law Enforcement amounted to nothing short than attacks on all Police Officers in the district. One councilmember stated in a hearing i know for fact there are police in the district who are bad actors and been going on without the proper penance. He felt the need for the officers to receive retribution. Other Council Members bragged about defunding the department or making, quote, the biggest reduction to m. P. D. He had ever seen. Without deviling into the details how terrible these bills are or awful the rhetoric used by the council was, i assure the members of this committee the direct result was a mass exodus of Police Officers from the department. To put a finer point on this issue, when i took office as head of the police union in april of 2020, our membership reports showed we had 3,126 members of the rank and file, all officers, detectives, andar gents. Our most report from october 5, 2023, states we were down to 3,021. A net loss of 605 union members. Since the beginning of 2020m. P. D. Has lost 1,329 officers. More than one third of the department. 501, nearly 40 , were resignations. Employees who walked away from a career with the metropolitan Police Department. These dangerously low police offer Staffing Levels take aa away valuable resources. And impedes our ability to speak with victims in a timely manner. While there is rhetoric about the crime, the facts are indisputable. Crime stats year to date in the district are staggering. Homicides have reached 218, 38 increase. Carjackses 800, a 110 increase. Robberies up 70 . Violent crime overall up 40 . And you will crimes are up 28 . These statistics i have mentioned are citywide. One paragraphses out the data to the neighborhood level, some communities have grown to look like war zones. Over the past 3 1 2 years our union has been sounding the alarm about this problem. Anyone within earshot, including the d. C. City council. We try to inform our leaders of the consequences of these policies, we were ignored. Business residents and Business Owners are under siege. Members of congress are being assaulted. Congressional Staff Members are being robbed. Your constituents are being targeted and attacked. The d. C. Council fails to admit their policies played a significant role in this outcome. Over three years later we have seen the result of the experiment. The data is in and we know for certain it has been an abject failure. Resulting in thousands of more victims crime in the city. The lasting impacts of these policies will not be fully realized for some time. The efforts to repair the damage done could take decades without swift and thoughtful actions. We do not fix the policies set in place for officers leaving, crime will rise. To publicly state we are prepared to assist in any way we can. Again, i thank you for the opportunity to testify. I welcome any questions the committee may have. Thank you. Chair biggs thank you for your testimony. Deputy mayor appeaa appia, we recognize you for five minutes. Ms. Appiah good morning chairman biggs, Ranking Member jackson. Im lindsey appiah, serve as deputy mayor for Public Safety and justice for the district of columbia. A position i was nominated to by mayor Muriel Bowser and confirmed by the d. C. Council. Serving the residents and visitors of the district is my honor. I served 11 years for district government. All of which has been in Public Safety and justice. Including as general counsel, interim director of department of youth rehabilitation services. I want to acknowledge the witnesses who are sharing their perspectives and experiences at todays hearing including ms. Richards and mr. Pemberton. On behalf of the mayor an the residents of the district of columbia, i express gratitude for their service and appreciate their able to be here to share information on the challenges we are facing. The numbers provide context, we can never lose sight each statistic on a website is more than a number. The reality is there are no victimless crimes. We recognize the harm and trauma many have experienced, acknowledge our responsibility to resolve urgently, and vow to work tirelessly to make our city safer. As deputy mayor four Public Safety, i provide direction, guidance, support, and coordination for the districts 12 Public Safety agencies and the d. C. National guard. To improve the quality of life in district neighborhoods. The missions of these agencies are dynamic and complex. Each plays a Critical Role in the Overall Health and functioning of our ecosystem. We call our system an ecosystem because it is a complex, interconnected system thats dependent upon each part for its help in opt timal functioning. Prevention includes those nonLaw Enforcement programs, services, and strategics aimed at decreasing the incidents of individuals committing Violent Crime, and reducing the conditions that lead to high rates of crime in our city. It encompasses our work on providing coordinated delivery of wrap around services, and connecting our residents and communities to care. Intervention and enforcement are Law Enforcement strategies led by m. P. D. M. P. D. Does currently have the lowest force strength its had since 1999. We are making investments to ensure they can recruit and retain officers, while also making investments in technology that will enhance our ability to efficiently solve cases and bring much needed and deserved justice for victims in our city. Accountability includes the criminal Justice System which we recognize is vital. Holding people appropriately accountability for behavior. Currently the d. C. Superior court has 11 judicial vacancies. Our system has pressure points but the district is investing Significant Resource noose a multipronged Public Safety approach that invests in Law Enforcement, prevention efforts, youth programming, reentry, and rehabilitation. Another complexity is the uniqueness of the criminal Justice System structure. One thats a mix of local, federal, and independent agencies, most of which are not under the authority of the mayor. We need all of our colleagues in these agencies to match the commitment in the district government to not just combat crime but approach the work with the belief we can prevent the next crime and prevent someone else from become ago vick ive. The mayor has maintained we have to have a policy environment that supports appropriate accountability. In the district we are leaders we lead in pushing bounds what is possible to achieve equal justice for all under the law. We can and should be proud of our progress. We must not be so proud we are unwilling to critically evaluate our reforms and adjust when unintended consequences are leading to harmful outcomes. Which is why the mayor sent to the council the safer, stronger Amendment Act of 2023. Aimed at providing additional tools to process to combat crime. The d. C. Council recognized this is long past prioritizing Public Safety emergency Amendment Act which incorporates several provisions. We know more must be done and i echo what the mayor testified in may. Our Public Safety agencies here in d. C. And across the country need the support of congress. Im happy to answer questions about more ways that congress can help to support all of the efforts that we described in d. C. Government to actually lower crime in the district. Thank you. Chair biggs thank you, deputy mayor. Now chair recognizes you for five minutes. Members of the subcommittee, i am thomas apps, founding director of the center for study and practice of violent reduction. Also known as the Violence Reduction center or v. R. C. , located at the university of maryland, college park. The mission is simple. We seek to save lives by stopping violence using science. Thank you for the opportunity to speak before you today on victims of Violent Crimes in the district of columbia. This issue is personally and professionally important to me. I live here in the district. I was first exposed to violence while teaching at Roosevelt High School where one of my students was shot and killed. I fought crime in courtrooms in new york city while working as alogical prosecutor. I help start antiviolence initiatives as a senior federal and State Government official. Most recently i have studied the issue of Violent Crime while working in academia. Violent crime in the United States should not be a partisan issue. In the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, violence surged around the nation. It rose in urban, suburban, and rural areas. It rose in red states and in blue states. It rose in cities run by republicans and in those led by democrats. Recently, rates of Violent Crime have started to decline. Again, they are decreasing in both red and blue jurisdictions alike. While violence is falling in most cities around the country, that is unfortunately not the case here in the district. As of this past tuesday, Violent Crime is up 40 compared with the same time last year, and up 30 compared to the same period in 2019, before the pandemic began. Crime has been falling steeply in the district for the past 30 days, no one should be satisfied with that. Why is crime rising here while falling nationally . We need to acknowledge that this is a complicated question that is hard to answer with certainty. Nationally our best answer is violent surge during the pandemic, due to the pandemic, following the murder of george floyd, and massive surge in legal gun sales. As we get farther from those factors, violence across the country seems to be slowing. Locally we need to understand that washington, d. C. , is unique. The metropolitan Police Department is one of more than 20 Law Enforcement agencies operating in the jurisdiction. Prosecution is split between the u. S. Attorneys office and the office of the attorney general. Judges are appointed by the president and confirmed by the senate. There is no other jurisdiction in the nation that is jointly administered in this way. There is one thing i know after more than 25 years in this field its this. Reducing crime and violence is a team sport. If individual players do not play well together, the team will not succeed. Collaboration is key. Collaborating is hard in any jurisdiction, but it is especially hard here in the district due to its unusual localfederal structure. That is no excuse. The district can and should do better in communicating, collaborating, and executing its antiviolent strategies. It is not easy, however, and congress can help the city in several concrete ways. Ill mention just a few here. Every criminal Justice System requires the sharing of information to function. Here in the district, however, the privacy act of 1974 prohibits federal agencies from disclosing critical information to local agencies. Congress could amend the privacy act to enable the effective sharing of information. At the start of 2024, the district crimes lab will have been without accreditation for nearly three years. The city needs and deserves a first rate lab. Congress could support accreditation by appropriating funding for the lab and for external testing in the interim. In the district, as you heard, is currently struggling with numerous judicial vacancies. Congress could pass the district of columbia courts of judicial vacancy reduction act and apply a 60day congressional review period to d. C. Nominees and remove the requirement that the Senate Hold Hearings and vote on these nations nominations. None of these actions are likely to garner headlines, but they would make a difference in terms of safety for d. C. Residents. They are all nonpartisan and things moments of both parties should be able to agree on. More broadly just over a year and a half ago when rates of Violent Crime were at their peak, i urged the committee to put aside partisanship and support 6 billion for federal funding for antiviolent strategies carried out by local communitybased organizations and local Law Enforcement agencies. That funding and those strategies are still sorely needed today in the district and around the nation. Then as now, you must remember when it comes to Violent Crime, it is about solving a deadly serious problem. Not winning an abstract argument. Its about emphasizing evidence over ideology. And its about bringing people together not pulling them apart. Thank you. Chair biggs thank you mr. Abt for your testimony. The chair recognizes mr. Super bowl hrefrb i ask so bowl hrefrb i ask sobolevsky for five minutes. Mr. Sobolevsky i first would like to honor and recognize my fatherinlaw who was shot and killed in jacksonville, florida, december 4, 2022. My experience i was a victim of Violent Crime in the district of columbia, on december 16, 2020. I made a series of mistakes that almost cost me my life. Some may say it is victim blaming, but the reality is crime exists. If you are not careful in violent cities like d. C. , you may end up just another statistic. Shortly after 5 p. M. On december 16 i left my apartment on ninth street in shaw a short walk from the white house. I got groceries and did not realize i would soon face a loaded barrel. Just as i began walking i noticed a man acting suspiciously. He was looking over at me across the block. I told myself nothing was wrong. And nothing was going nothing bad was going to happen to me. After all the street was busy, what could go wrong . Turned down the block and headed towards the Grocery Store and checked behind. There he was still behind me. He followed my direction. Alarmed, i noticed a couple walking just behind me and behind them the wouldbe criminal. I thought to myself, dont worry, there are people right behind me. Its ok. A few moments passed and i look again and the couple is nowhere to be seen. The man is quickly approaching. Before i could think he was next to me asking for money. I said no and kefpt walking without realizing he pulled a gun. The criminal stepped in front of me and stated you know what it is. Before aim ago pistol at my face and pressing it against my forehead. I almost didnt believe it then reality set in and i thought i was going to lose my life to a criminal on the street. Ill never forget our interaction line by line. He told me, do what i i say and you aint going to die tonight. All i could hear was youre going to die tofpblt then my mom would have to come down to d. C. To identify my body on some cold street in washington, d. C. I remember looking into his eyes, seeing no life. No thought. No empathy. Just evil. During the entire interaction he demanded property after property for me, his finger on the trigger while the pistol pointed at my head, i concealed my phone. While foolish not to hand it over, it expedited my ability to call for help. I remember the last words out of his mouth muffled by his covid mask, all right. Be good tonight. You aint going to die. I thought, this is where he shoots me. He stood me up and told me to walk. And i did. After a few steps i turned around and coy see him starting to run i could see him starting to run. I told myself, mitching, you have your phone call 911. I called exactly who you would want to respond in the situation. The police. Within minutes squad cars lined 10th and n. Ill never forget seeing the lights come and thanking god for the police. A young female officer responded immediately an i knew say maam my life was spared. Im trying to remain in my knife minutes, after the arrest, coordinating with the u. S. Attorneys office, my criminal went to trial. I gladly and passionately wrote an impact statement. I pleaded with the judge not to give a leanant sentence as this man would commit worse crimes than what he did to me. The judge proceeded to give my criminal 24 months and suspend add year of his sentence because the judge believed his judgment was still forming. This light sentence was given despite my criminal robbing six victims and two businesses. Thats right, one year from multiple armed robberies. Within weeks of my criminals release, he would go on to rob two more people at gun point. I would find this out because i was reading the d. C. Weekly arrests. Well never be able toer eradicate violence crime. We can take action to ensure it happens less frequently. Today d. C. Has the highest homicides in almost 20 years. Short 400 Police Officers. With the average homicide suspect having 11 prior arrests. I am i implore this committee that policing, prosecuting, and i. N. S. Cars racial incarceration works. Violent crime should not be dealt with lightly. How many more stories do we have to read about entirely preventible tragedies. Thank you. I look forward to your questions. Chair biggs thank you for your compelling testimony. Mr. Jablonski, i understand you have a video you would like to show. Mr. Jablonski yes. Chair biggs i recognize you for five minutes. We will show that video to begin. [video clip] is the five minutes running, mr. Chairman . Chair biggs yes, its running. Chair biggs mr. Jablonski. Mr. Jablonski thank you. Thank you for inviting me, mr. Chairman. Ranking member. As horrific as that video is, what happened after was even worse. He was arrested. We found out he was a door dash driver. No reason why he acted that way. Within 10 days of him being arrested, after numerous conversations with the d. A. Office saying that i would do anything they needed to to not plead this down, there were numerous eyewitnesses, a loaded 9 millimeter, its hard to see there, that was pointed at my son. Not only was it loaded, there was one in the chamber. When i knocked it out of his hand, luckily it didnt go off. He could have killed someone. The d. A. Told me that they had to take him to account their resources, and my resources. And that they would plead this down to a attempted assault with a dangerous an aacemented it ash ash attempted an assault with a dangerous weapon. When i challenged them and how you take into account the endangering a minor. I was told d. C. Does not have a law for endangerment of a minor. After all that i asked, ok, whats the sentencing guidelines you are asking for . 12 to 18 months. I went to the sentencing date. He was released on his own. Went to the sentencing date. Made a victim impact statement. Without a doubt in my mind if i didnt do that his attorney was asking for die srer gents divergence. He would have been released. Out of this entire situation i now have bad publicity for my own business because people now are worried there is somebody on the street Walking Around with a gun because this is 2 30 in the afternoon. People are telling me im hesitating about ordering from door dash, which that hurts Small Businesses that supports healthy door dash. On top of everything else, he gets eight months and im left with explaining to my 5yearold that why i had to fight this man and my 5yearold tells me when i drop him off at School Every Day to be safe. I understand i have been in the bar industry for five years. I have seen the craziest things you can im imagine. In the last two or three years the brazenness of the violent acts going on in the city, but around in general, have gotten to the point where its ridiculous. And now that i have been through the whole process from start to finish, you could enact whatever law you want. We could have 1,000 new gun laws. We could have 1,000 new Police Officers. You could throw millions at this d. A. s office. If nobodys going to do their job and prosecute and hold people accountable, whats the point . Thank you. I look forward to any questions. Chair biggs thank you for your testimony. The chair recognizes ms. Richards for your five minutes. Ms. Richards good morning. My name is ms. Richards, im a firefighter paramedic with d. C. Fire e. M. S. I have been in the Service Since 2009. And i began as a volunteer and loved every minute of my duties. My dream was to become a firefighter paramedic in the Nations Capital. I spent countless hours perfecting my craft in hopes of being able to serve the citizens of washington, d. C. My hard work finally paid off and i was hired on october 16, 2017. When i graduate interested the academy i was assigned to engine 32 in ward 8. I loved every minute while working in the community and being able to help the citizens in any way that i can. One of my favorite things to do is to engage with the community and talk with the m. P. D. Officers. At times, we play basketball together with neighborhood kids when we had down time. On july 31, 2020, my partner and i responded to a 911 call for a 19yearold female in respiratory distress. When i arrived on scene, we had to get fully dressed from head to toe and full covid p. E. D. Before we could enter the home. In the academy they teach us that scene safety is one of the most important things on a call. As a provider you have to be safe. You have to make sure your partner is safe. To ensure proper and safe patient care. Once we entered we found two females and one male in the back bedroom. The female caller was irate and stated we took too long and did not care about covid she did not care about covid. The gentleman standing in the corner told her to allow us to do our job. The two subjects then began to fight each other. My partner and i did what we were trained to do, which is get out of the house and call a 1033 code to bring police for help. I made it to the landing of the steps, reached for my radio, and before i could call the 1033, both of the females jumped over the bannister on the landing and began to punch and kick me while pulling my hair and holding my head down in place. Naturally making the radio fall down the flight of steps. The man started holding my partner at the top of the stairs. Two minutes went by before i was able to get free and get my radio to call for help. I suffered a severe concussion and had laceration above my eye which required stitches. These were the physical wounds that in time healed. However, the mental impact will last a lifetime. Since this event i have been to the center of excellence which is a rehab and Mental Health facility for firefighters. Im having to learn how to live with ptsd and still do the job i love without being anxious and fears for the worst on every call. Prior to 2020 i fell like m. P. D. Responds to these routine medical cars in ward 8 more. Their Police Presence was all that was needed to ensure our safety and make sure the citizens were safe and able to get the care without violence or eruptions. I feel safer on the job when i know m. P. D. Is there or a quick call away. We as a department are grateful for them, especially when they are looking out for us on these streets. The amount of assaults, violence, and shootings in the district are skyrocketing. And it makes me feel less safe, especially after my incident. Just this week my coworkers can be heard screaming over the radio for a 1033 because an agitated patient tried to climb in the drivers compartment, maybe even trying to steal the ambulance. During this chaos a gunshot wound victim was dropped off in the same place. This year i received a phone call from the d. A. Telling me nothing was going to happen to the two women who assaulted me. I was told that one of the women would receive community service, not because of what she did to me, because while in the progression prosecuting her for this crime she picked up additional charges. The other womans charge would be dropped. I love this city, but we need to do better. And our First Responders need to feel safe. The Nations Capital is no longer a place where firefighters and e. M. S. Workers can renter care render care to those in need without worrying about become ago patient themselves. Several times a month we are on call run interesting nearby gunshots or prior to going to a violent scene because we are waiting for Police Officers to respond. When i took the oath it was sworn in to be a firefighter paramedic in washington, d. C. , i was fully prepared and aware the possibility of dying in a fire could become a reality at any moment. However, i did not expect that while helping someone during the most vulnerable time and need during a medical emergency that the tables could quickly turn on me and i could become a victim of an assault and lose my life trying to save another. In closing i want to thank you for this opportunity to share my story in hopes to find a solution to this detrimental uptick in violence in crime we have in the Nations Capital and that our First Responders are being looked out for so we can look out for the citizens of washington, d. C. , who need our help. Chair biggs thank you for your testimony. The chair recognizes mr. Gaetz for his five minutes of questions. Mr. Gaetz are people more or less safe this year compared to last year in washington, d. C. . Ms. Appiah sorry. I cant say whether they are more or less safe. I can say crime is up. So long as anyone doesnt feel safe then thats an issue for us. Mr. Gaetz would higher crime rates be an important indicators whether or not people would be more or less safe . Ms. Appiah as to whether or not people would feel more or less safe. Its something that we certainly look at in determining that. Mr. Gaetz i think people could feel unsafe even if they were safe. But this doesnt seem to be a delusion, right . The cases of Sexual Assault rose 111 over the course of a year. Homicides increased by 38 . Motor vehicle thefts doubled increasing 106 . Instances ofarson over 125 of a rson over 125 . And carjackings by 55 . Ms. Appiah there are a host of complex reasons why thats the case. You heard some. We talk about our ecosystem. Policy reasons mr. Gaetz soft on crime policy . Ms. Appiah i dont know i would say soft on crime policy. I would say there are a number of reforms in policy that have made in the district that we believe needs to be adjusted. Which is why there have been a number of proposals from the mayor. Legislation passed by the council to take a look at where we are getting the type of impact we dont want. Mr. Gaetz the only way this works is with collaboration. What would you highlight as the main policy change that the mayors proposed that could put some downward pressure on this rising Violent Crime. Ms. Appiah there are a host of proposals the mayor made related to penalty enhancement. To aligning penalties for gun crimes when federal penalties. There are those. Theres also the information sharing mr. Gaetz the underlying premise there is that enhanced punishment can have a deter rent effect and reduce crime, right . Ms. Appiah we agree with that, yes. Accountability is an important part of crime. Mr. Gaetz im not blaming ou for this because its not your job when we look at the facts the prosecutors over the d. C. Area has doubled their delynnations, from your standpoint on the frontlines in city government, do you think that doubling the number of declinations goes in the right direction or wrong direction . Ms. Appiah i would say what we believe is that if m. P. D. Has made arrests that people need to be held appropriately accountable. We always maintain that. Mr. Gaetz it seems like the underlying premise of appropriately accountable is that penalty enhancement. Its not as if you think people are being held too accountable. They are not being held accountable enough, right . Ms. Appiah absolutely needs to be accountability for those who engage in Violent Crimes. Mr. Gaetz i think mr. Richards would probably agree with that. Your testimony was harrowing, but it concerned me that people might not be willing to do these lifesaving, critically important jobs like firefighting and e. M. S. If they feel like they are going into a war zone. You gave testimony about what it was like to wait on police as you are trying to save peoples lives and help them. Is there anything youd like to add to that . Ms. Richards thats the state we are in right now. I wait in excess of 20 minutes before to try to get m. P. D. On scene for a violent call. Mr. Gaetz what do you do for 20 minutes . Ms. Richards we stage and wait. At this point we are no longer we are not going to those scenes. Therefore the citizens are not getting treated. They cant have our services because its not safe for us to go in there. Mr. Gaetz that sounds like life or death to me that people could die because we dont have enough police to keep even our own First Responders safe that want to save peoples lives. Have you been confronted with these type of life or death situations where people cant get the care they need because you are waiting for firepower and cover to be able to help people . Ms. Richards yes. Theres been times where we have to wait. Like i said i have waited personally myself in excess of 20 minutes for m. P. D. To arrive. Mr. Gaetz i would observe, mr. Chairman, that d. C. Has some of the strongest gun control laws in the country. Increasingly the lawabiding people, the people who want to be helpful, who want to be good neighbors, are constrained by those gun control laws. Yet the violent criminals are putting ms. Richards and all the people who want to do the good work she does in graver danger. That might be Something Worthy of federal review. I yield back. Chair biggs the chair recognizes the Ranking Member, ms. Jackson lee. Ms. Jackson lee i want to yield to the Ranking Member of the full committee, mr. Nadler, who then yield to the d. C. D. C. Congresswoman, ms. Norton. Mr. Nadler this hearing is not a serious exercise. Our republican colleagues have shown very little interest in the welfare of the people of washington, d. C. This political stunt is further evidence of t rather than asking questions myself i would yield my time to the person who has dedicated her life representing the Nations Capital and itsries tkepbts. The gentlewoman from washington, d. C. , ms. Norton. Chair biggs i just want to personal clarification. So whose time mr. Nadler mr. Nadlers time going to ms. Norton, ok. Ms. Norton, are you recognized. Ms. Norton i thank my good friend for yielding. As the only member of congress elected by the nearly 700,000 district of columbia residents, i appreciate the opportunity to way on this committee for purposes of this hearing. Im deeply saddened that some of the witnesses in this hearing were victims of crime in the district. However, while the federal government controls much of d. C. s criminal Justice System, to the extent that this hearing focuses on d. C. s local laws and local government, it violates the purposes of the d. C. Home rule act. Which is, among other things, im quoting, grant the inhabitants of the district of columbia powers of local selfgovernment and relieve congress of the burden of legislating upon essentially local district matters, end quote. While congress has Constitutional Authority to legislate on local d. C. Matters, it does not have a constitutional duty to do so. Instead, legislating on local d. C. Matters is a choice. James madison said in federalist 43 about the residents of the district, and im quoting, a Municipal Legislature for the local purposes derived from their own suffrages will be allowed them. End quote. The Supreme Court has held that congress may delegate, quote, full legislative power to d. C. On local d. C. Matters. D. C. s local legislature, the d. C. Council, has 13 members. Members are elected by d. C. Residents. If d. C. Residents do not like the laws the council does, they can vote the members out of office. That is called democracy. Congress has 535 voting members. The members elected by residents of states. None are elected by or accountable to d. C. Residents. If d. C. Residents do not like the Laws Congress has, they cannot vote the members out of office. The revolutionary war was fought to give consent to the governed and to end taxation without representation. Yet d. C. Residents cannot consent to any action taken by congress whether on national or local d. C. Matters, and pay full federal taxes. Indeed, d. C. Residents pay more federal taxes per capita than any state. And more local federal taxes than 19 states. D. C. Residents, the majority of whom are black and brown, are capable and worthy of governing themselves. If House Republicans cared about democratic principles or local d. C. Residents, they would ring my d. C. Statehood bill which would give d. C. Residents vogt representation in Congress Voting representation in congress and full local selfgovernment to the floor. Congress has the Constitutional Authority to admit the state of washington, d. C. Its simply thats the will. I yield back. I thank the chairman. Chair biggs the gentlelady yields back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from california, mr. Kylely. Mr. Kiley thank you, mr. Chair. We heard testimony today about a culture of lawlessness in washington, d. C. And how crime rates are absolutely staggering. This is sadly true in other places across the United States. In manhattan and chicago, san francisco, and los angeles. But d. C. Is a particularly compelling case study because of the unique nature of the district as a sort of selfcontained jurisdiction. It allows us to paragraphs pars the different elements of that culture of lawlessness and thousand they have become mutually reinforcing in way that has caused crime to spiral out of control. Specifically those elements would be the laws, police, prosecutors, and judges. Starting first with the laws, detective pemberton, you represent 3,000 sworn officers. Mr. Pemberton correct. Mr. Kiley thank you for your service and all of them for the incredibly important and dangerous work that they do on a daily basis. You described in your testimony a state of antipolice legislation such as the comprehensive policing Justice Reform act of 2020. The revised criminal code act of 2021. The reducing Law Enforcement efforts in schools act. How would you summarize the overall effect of this legislation on criminal penalties in the district . Mr. Pemberton its very wide reaching. The first thing i would point to is the Staffing Levels and morale within the Police Department. As i stated in my testimony i think we are down somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 Police Officers where we were just before this legislation was interduesed introduced. The legislation is designed to hamper and hamstring Police Officers and make it difficult for them to do their jobs. In addition to that, it exposes them to liability of administrative, civil, and kreufplal penalties even when they go and do their job properly, responsibly, and actually. So the one major aspect that have is that people will leave an agency they dont want to work under those onerous provisions. But the other part of it is that it has a Chilling Effect. There are still obviously thousands of Police Officers that have not left the agency but it now there is a secondguessing as to whether or not they want to engage in the positive, proactive policing they used to engage in which was so effective at keeping these crime rates low. Those are the two major aspects of what has happened. At least to the rank and file. As you stated the effects go the entire ecosystem as the deputy mayor mentioned. Every aspect of the criminal Justice System is broken. The reason is because of these laws. Mr. Kiley that answers my next question. You have the lowering of penalties across the board. And where penalties exist you saw somebody get caught. And the defunding of police and the antipolice rhetoric from politicians here has decreased that presence, is that right . Mr. Pemberton thats right. When we talk about this ecosystem of criminal justice, the front end that have, intake system, is Police Officers putting handcuffs on people who they have probable cause believe commit add crime. If we are not doing that, a lot of this stuff down stream of that, prosecutions, judges, super vision has very little effect because the number of people we are arresting and bringing in mr. Kiley when you go down steam stream. Mr. Stimson worked for the chief prosecutor, how does the prosecution rates here compared to other jurisdictions . Mr. Stimson i have worked in four d. A. Offices. Here this is the highest delineation rate of any of the other offices. In my orel statement i said take two like sized city offices, san diego has 330d. A. s a. The u. S. Attorneys office has 330d. A. s. As was mentioned there are 700,000 residents here in the district. Which is about 2,000 persons per prosecutor. San diego has 3. 2 million residents in the county. Those prosecutors each serve about 9,000 plus residents. The san diego d. A. s office in the last 20 years, has a 22. 6 delineation rate. And 77 issuance rate of charges. San diego doesnt have a crime problem. I would respectfully disagree with one of the other witnesses. The crime spiked during covid. It started going up in 2016 in cities with soft on crime prosecutors. Mr. Kiley you testified to how the judges tend to have lighter sentencing than other jurisdictions as well. If each stage of it you have an unavailability of serious penalties, you have a limited Police Presence because of defunding and other antipolice policies, you have very high declination rate by prosecutor. And light sentences by the judges. That kill taour has contributed to this juries that culture has contributed to this jurisdiction having a hire murder rate than anywhere else in the country. Im out of time. A final question, i think perhaps the biggest thing we can do to change that lawless misis to create a new level of support for Law Enforcement. To recruit more folks into the profession. Do you have thoughts how we can do that . Chair biggs the gentlemans time has expired. Detective, you may respond. Mr. Pemberton thank you, mr. Chairman. Yes, thats right. Particularly when we are talking about these bills passed by the city council. This is absolutely detrimental to the hiring and attrition rates of the department. Without getting rid of some of the provisions within that bill, its going to be impossible for us to staff the Police Department at the level that meets the demand thats out there for citizens who are requesting police services. Chair biggs thank you. The chair recognizes the Ranking Member, ms. Jackson lee. Ms. Jackson lee thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Let me first ask to put into the record the information about washington being number one in police per capita. And the amount of money spent on crime. Chair biggs without objection. Ms. Jackson lee let me again the stories were horrific. Crime victims, there should be zero tolerance. We have to come together to make that happen. I am, to mr. Jablonski, to watch your little one. I know what that means to you. Thank you for your courage to come here today, sir. Let me try to get our hands around what we need to do. Let me get right to the heart of things, ms. Appiah. What is the district doing to address Violent Crime . What is the district doing to address carjackings . Ms. Appiah we described the ecosystem because its important. So the districts making investments in all those spaces. First is prevention. I agree with mr. Pemberton that enforcement is important. To us i have a Public Health background. Preventing crime is the best way to have less victims. There has been significant investments made in violence intervention and prevention which we are grateful for the investments that were made through the American Rescue plan act which allowed us to put funds into violence interruption services, and also Victim Services. The district grants 100 worth of grants to providers ms. Jackson lee you are not stopping your police from engaging right on the streets. Arresting and bringing in carjackers. Ms. Appiah thats correct. There are a number of policing strategies. All have to Work Together. Ms. Jackson lee you are we respebgting the police to do their job. Ms. Appiah you will find no mayor who is more supportive of the police. Ms. Jackson lee what is the greatest challenge for the districts ability to respond to Violent Crime. Ms. Appiah the complexities of our federallocal system. You heard mr. Abt describe information sharing. We know Law Enforcement strategies like focused deterrence work when the entities Work Together. Ms. Jackson lee there is no reason there should not be information sharing. Let me move quickly if you dont mind. I have a short period of time. You enacted emergency legislation to change the landscape of prosecutions. You want to let us know how that is happening. Is that the same legislation as the prioritizing Public Safety emergency amendment . Ms. Appiah thats correct. Ms. Jackson lee this is law. Can you give us a snippet. I have so many other questions. Ms. Appiah it increases the presumption for pretrial detention which has led to more people being held pretrial. It increases penalty for things like unlawful discharge of a firearm. There are things related to pretrials for juveniles which we know is an issue. There was a companion bill that clarifies the ability of Law Enforcement to pursue in a manner consistent with safe policies. Ms. Jackson lee does the dechloroquination rate declination rate coming down . Ms. Appiah i cant speak on pea half of the u. S. Attorney. We are see morgue with hold for gun crimes so we can make cant say causation but a correlation. Ms. Jackson lee you have strong gun laws but your surrounding neighbors dont. The issue is you dont block any citizen from having their guns. But what youre seeing is the gun trafficking on the street. Ms. Appiah thats correct. Ms. Jackson lee how does that happen . Ms. Appiah we have significant gun trafficking from our neighbors in virginia, maryland, north carolina, south carolina, and georgia. That is where the illegal flow of guns into the district we have partners like a. T. F. And f. B. I. And federal partners are important to help us stop gun trafficking. Ms. Jackson lee you are committed to fighting gun trafficking and carjacking. And robberies on the street. Ms. Appiah we are. Ms. Jackson lee the alcohol, tobacco, and firearms and f. B. I. For those academics not familiar, they can do a lot more or you can work more with them. Ms. Appiah correct. Ms. Jackson lee mr. Abt, let me first of all very quickly indicate that correction of mr. Stimson, there is no mandatory minimum for gun possession in the federal laws. But there is a mandatory minimum in d. C. They shall not weak on crime in many instances. Mr. Abt, explore your covid pandemic concept. I agree with you. Though you say that crime here is huge. Just explain that concept about the surge of crime across america. Mr. Abt sure. Chair biggs the gentlewomans time has expired. You may answer the question. Mr. Abt in 2020 we had one of the largest single year increases in homicides across the country that we have ever seen. Approximately 28 . As i said, no jurisdiction or almost no jurisdiction was spared regardless of political affiliation. Violent crime rose again the following year. It was flat in 2022. Now slightly coming down thankfully. And as i said, most experts agree on generally three reasons for this surge in crime. Although mr. Stimson is correct there was a surge in crime in 2016 as well. Focusing on this 2020 surge, it was the pandemic itself, unrest following the murder of george floyd, and the massive surge in gun sales. All three of these things together contributed to pushing the rates higher. As we get farther from that they seem to be decreasing. Ms. Jackson lee thank you to the witnesses. Chair biggs thank you. The gentleladys time has expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from wisconsin, mr. Tiffany. Mr. Tiffany are you saying the lockdowns did not work . Mr. Abt im not mr. Tiffany lockdowns led to higher crime. Mr. Abt dy not say that, congress i did not say that, congressman. Can you repeat yet . Mr. Tiffany you said during the covid lockdowns that crime went up in 2020. Mr. Abt during the pandemic they went up. Mr. Tiffany the American People were locked down. I came here i was sworn in here on may 19 of 2020. I couldnt believe i could drive from the suburbs of virginia to this location right here in about five minutes. Nobody was here. You said Violent Crime went up. Due to covid lockdowns. Werent they part of the contributing factor . Mr. Abt thats an inpresent connection between the two. I cant speak to that. Mr. Tiffany deputy mayor, d. C. Council chairman phil mendelssohn said tkhrs not a crime crisis in washington, d. C. Ms. Appiah signs of crisis as a tim of intense difficult, trouble or danger. I would say we find ourself in intense time of trouble or danger. I would say there is a cry sis any time someone is a victim of any time someone is a victim of mr. Tiffany it seems we have found part of the problem, when somebody will not acknowledge theres a crisis, by definition, as the deputy mayor said, there is a crisis. Mr. Pemberton. Were hearing about guns are the problem. Guns coming from other states are the problem. Are crimes being prosecuted to their fullest that include guns here in d. C. . Is prosecution are the judges giving the fullest sentences they can with gun crimes . No, absolutely not. Some of the rhetoric we hear about crime in the district sit comes from illegal guns and we have to focus on illegal guns and that if we find a way to get illegal guns out of the hands of criminals crime will come down. Thats not necessarily wrong. Our officers, i think last year we arrested around 3,100 people for possession of an illegal firearm. The problem is, is that even when were able to get those cases papered and prosecuted and a conviction, the average sentence that judges are handing out for that penalty is six months supervised release which is zero jail time that. Is the going rate is what we say for people who are in possession of illegal guns. Mr. Tiffany repeat that, six months . Mr. Pemberton six months of supervised probation. Thats somebody who is convicted of being in possession of an illegal firearm the maximum penalty is five years under d. C. Code. However the penalties that superior court judges are handing out regularly are more along the lines of probation only. Mr. Tiffany probation only for a gun crime . Mr. Pemberton yes. And to make a finer point it doesnt seem the city takes the crimes as seriously as they suggest given that the courts are not penalizing period not penalizing people who are guilty of those crimes. Mr. Tiffany was that your experience . Yes. I was told they were glad they came because most likely he would have received divergence. Mr. Tiffany is Victims Services doing their job in d. C. . They were very nice, they were helpful. But theres really the only thing i wanted, that i wanted to see real justice. I want t. D. See something that showed me that they took into account what happened to me and my family and what i saw wasnt. Mr. Tiffany mr. Soaplesskey is Victim Service doing their job in washington, d. C. . I would say theyre doing the job, its hard to say that the police, the prosecutors and the judges are doing their jobs. Neighbor police are out there making arrests, prosecutors arent prosecuting. Maybe the police are making arrests. Prosecutors arent prosecuting. What is going on . Judges are letting criminals out on the street. My guy was given one year in jail. What did he do within weeks upon release . My fatherinlaw was murdered by a guy with a rap sheet, 1970 one. Why are they on the streets . Have you lost officers to other jurisdictions around this region . Absolutely. A lot of the officers have been going to neighboring jurisdictions. I will close with a this, mr. Chairman. I will make the case once again i want to this committee to come to milwaukee, wisconsin, to hear the story, weve heard it in new york city, chicago and washington dc. I urge you to schedule a hearing in milwaukee where the District Attorney said they will go on to kill someone, absolutely, thats the problem in the United States, the soft on crime attitude. The gentlemans time is expired, the gentle lady from georgia. Thank you for our witnesses and all of you that have suffered these horrific tragedies and you continue to be afflicted with this every day. Im so very sorry. I sit before you as a mother who have suffered as a victim of gun violence. Im here as a result of an epidemic that has plagued our country for too long. I have dedicated my time in congress to reducing gun violence and advocating for common sense gun laws to keep our neighborhoods, keep our family safe, to keep you safe, regardless of the city you call home or the person representing you in public office, one fact remains true, we need comprehensive common sense gun laws to end the virus that threaten the American People. As members of congress, we are tasked with making a genuine difference in this country and taking steps to reduce violence by an acting federal gun laws to keep our families and our children safe. This committee alone has numerous bills that will reduce Violent Crimes in dc and across our country once they are implemented. We made a historic step in the right direction last congress with the passage of the bipartisan Safer Communities act which invest 750 million into protection orders for crisis intervention and empower our Law Enforcement and also invests 250 million in Community Based violence intervention programs to support our communities that are crying out for our help. The successful passage of the Safer Communities act is a testament to our ability to unify in congress and fulfill our promise to fight for the safety of every american. These are our communities. Our children, our loved ones. Gun violence should be a deep personal concern for each and every one of us including my colleagues in this committee. Following this hearing i would urge that all my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to turn their concerns about violence into action. Continue the fight against violence with me and join the federal extremist protection order act so we can link our actions into words. Empower loved ones, those who seek the warning signs of being in crisis help them keep guns away from those who are at risk to themselves or hurting others. What truly matters is not which side of the aisle we all fall on but the countless lives lost in this country to unnecessary gun violence every day. No mother, no parent, no american should experience the pain of losing a loved one. We must Work Together to end the epidemic of gun violence. Investments are made by the bipartisan Safer Communities act aimed at prevention. The deputy mayor, thomas abt, lindsey appiah, how will a federal bill to authorize federal extremist protection orders contribute to reducing Violent Crime across our country . Thank you to the question. If you look at the research assembled by the rand institute, theres Good Research showing extreme Risk Protection orders can save lives particularly in terms of homicide and avoid homicide as well. Those laws, and the Sport Congress made for those laws in terms of enacting them in the best ways is a strong step forward. I would say the same. The district i am cochairing with our dc council a working group on how we can utilize resources to keep District Residents more safe. I have crisscrossed this country fighting to change dangerous gun laws and there are many in this room but have also worked as activists on the ground to do the same. No one in this country deserves ever to be affected by the violent culture we are living in and i promise you that my colleagues and i would do whatever we can to keep you safe. The gentle ladys time has expired. Now the gentle lady from florida, miss lee. Earlier this morning, this hearing was referred to as a political stunt. I would like to begin by asking us to remember we are joined here today by the men and women of Law Enforcement, First Responders and victims of Violent Crime. They deserve are serious consideration of this gravely important issue. Lets start with reality. The number of Law Enforcement officers assigned to a region per capita wont stop crime. When Law Enforcement officers are prevented from doing their job by bad law. The number of prosecutors in a community will not stop crime when they do not bring cases and enforce the law. Its not enough to have judges on the bench when judges wont follow the rules and wont enforce the law. We are or responsibility to the citizens of washington dc and visitors from around the world, to keep them safe and all too often they are here and victims of Violent Crime, they are being carjacked, assaulted, shot in the streets. We must face the reality of the crime epidemic in washington dc and do more. The reason we are here is plain and obvious, the reckless and irresponsible rhetoric and failed policies of the Democrat Party in the Biden Administration that is emboldened criminals in cities across america. We owe the residents here and visitors to the capital so much more and as former federal prosecutor and judge i will tell you theres one thing that reliably keeps a violent predator from recidivate and it is called prison. Some offenders deserve second chances, absolutely but do murderers, sex offenders and rapists need to be out on bond . They need Wraparound Services . Do those who are out on conditions of bond who violate them deserve another chance . No. They deserve to be in custody and to remain in custody for the safety of the citizens of this community. We need to support the Law Enforcement, prosecutors will enforce the laws, we need judges who will follow the laws and enforce the rules. It is that simple and what we see here today, testimony we heard today is the entirely predictable outcome of the reckless and irresponsible rhetoric and policies of the Democrat Party who are undermining the men and women of Law Enforcement and rule of law in america. In your prior testimony you reference juvenile offenders specifically. I would like to explore the effects that you believe policies related to juvenile offenders are having on the crime problem in dc and how we could be doing more to ensure that that issue is under control . Thank you for your question. I think we both agree the juvenile Justice System is designed to rehabilitate those who make dumb mistakes when they are young and most can be rehabilitated but when you do murder, multiple murders, rapes, carjackings, the chairman mentioned the number of carjackings by juvenile offenders, the number one age is 15 and the district doing armed carjacking this and so under title 16 which is a local law in the district, Us Attorneys Office can take 16 and 17 your macs and prosecute them as an adult. Many other jurisdictions dont have that type of shackles and allow violent criminals who do murder, rape, robbery and the rest of it, waved into adult court which is what should happen in this city because we have a juvenile Violent Crime program. If i could add, when i was talking about gun positions i said felony possession, under 19202g is a mandatory minimum. What happens in this city is they charge him with in superior court carrying a pistol without a license, felony position, they deal away the possession in severe court, carrying without a license and get a slap on the wrist and when i was a, defense attorney i wanted my client to get the best deal, to be surprised in superior court, not Federal District court regardless of the sentence. You know they will get a hard sentence in federal court. The gentle ladys time is expired. Thank you. The chair recognizes the gentle lady from pennsylvania. Thank you for putting forward this hearing today. For those who are the victims of Violent Crime, thinking particularly of your little boy my heart goes out to you and thank you for telling your stories because your stories are in search of solutions. Thats what this committee should be about, searching for solutions, not fingerpointing at a single da, or the entire Biden Administrations fault that there are Violent Crimes in this country. We are more serious than that. We must be more serious than that. Ive talked about gun violence my entire adult life and im here in congress. My passion is to make a difference which im proud that last year we did pass the Safer Communities act. And how others are making a difference. The first time in 30 Years Congress did anything about gun violence. Join us in these solutions is what i suggest to every member of congress we just distressing to hear a volunteer in dc which is my second home, its not unique to here. Im from the philadelphia suburbs. Philadelphia is the city i call home. It s a nationwide epidemic and one of the big issues is the number of guns on the street. To your point, mr. Simpson, the number of young people, children with illegal guns. The deputy mayor lindsey appiah, how do the laws in and around dc affect guns in dc . Where are these guns coming from . Do we have gun manufacturers in dc selling guns . No. Where are the guns coming from . Neighbors to the north, maryland, to the south, i95 corridor, virginia, north carolina, south carolina, georgia, are the primary location where illegal guns are coming in. No question the district has gun laws but those around us have more lax gun laws that have allowed the district to be flooded with unlawful guns from those locations. Flooded. We are seeing that throughout this country where guns are coming and from other jurisdictions with more lax gun laws. Before i yield to my good friend i want to note something. Please be aware that members on the other side of this aisle have argued in hearing after hearing of defunding dpf. Defunding the fbi. That is not a solution. That is contributing to the problem. Weve got to stop demonizing. With that those who are working for us to make us safer i yield to my good friend, the gentleman from maryland. I think the gentle lady and i thank you, mr. Chairman, for letting me quasi wave and today. Appreciate the chance to be here. I dont have enough time to cover all the things i want to chat about but i was a former assistant us attorney from 1990 to 1994, which was the height of the crack wars, dc average 455 murders per year during that timeframe and carjacking was invented during that timeframe. I understand the Violent Crime and that it went down dramatically and thats for the reasons that have been presented here today. I want to emphasize that we want a serious approach to addressing these. Im working with thomas abt to address these issues but smart on crime is more effective than soft on crime. I want to challenge the suggestion, miss lee was saying we just need to be tougher tougher tougher. We saw that movie. That was 2. 2 Million People incarcerated from incarcerating people for everything and that was marijuana on upper. On a. We want to be tough on serious violent offenders. After i left the Us Attorneys Office i became the state attorney in Prince Georges County which is the border of dc and we are working to coordinate things with dc as we bring this down. Guns is a key piece. A lot of crimes that have been discussed here involve guns. Most of the gun cases that are involved are the ones we see on the news at night. Lindsey appiah talked about guns coming from out of state which i cant get any republican cosponsors for the legislation we proposed to try to address these problems including ghost guns which everyone would agree is a problem. You dont need to go to virginia to get a ghost gun, just email a request and have it mailed to the district which im sure i wont have a chance to discuss the policeing issues and sentencing issues. I appreciate the work you do but there are major differences between the solutions your offering today and the best approaches to addressing the crime problem. I apologize for running over and hopefully have a chance to do more later in the hearing. The gentlemans time has expired. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Gaynor jablonski, your experience is one that is a fear many people walk around with daily and hope they will not have to be the victim so i appreciate you coming in and sharing your harrowing experience. Im sorry that that happened to you and that the person who did that was insufficiently punished. And mr. Gaynor jablonski, same sentiment for you, thought about what i would do if i had been in the restaurant, being you and that guy and what i would have done, what i have come to your assistance . What i have been as brave as the friends who stand there, couldnt do anything, i wonder what i would do in that situation but im glad you made it out of there okay. Im sorry you had to go through that. Myisha richards, Public Safety employee, very sorry you dont feel safe doing your job which is to help people. Very sorry about that. Gregg pemberton, thank you for your service. I understand Law Enforcement is a difficult occupation is a lot of people decide to leave a lower paying Police Department such as washington dc and go to one after they get training and experience, go to another department where the stress levels are less and the pay is greater. Im not sure that i agree with the inference that what the civilian authority has enacted would cause a significant number of Law Enforcement officers to just resign and turn in their badge and do away with Law Enforcement, i dont know if thats the way we should be thinking about things but thomas abt, you are the founding director for the center for the study and practice of Violence Reduction or Violence Reduction, and an associate Research Professor and senior fellow at the council of criminal justice so youve studied these issues. From your research, what are the specific drivers of violence at the macro and micro level and what is your research shown about how evidencebased prevention and intervention strategies can work alongside Law Enforcement strategies to reduce Violent Crime . Sure. I think at the broadest macro level, i think its a combination of factors that are pushing people towards crime and factors pushing people against so broadly speaking factors like poverty push people towards crime and societys response to those crimes is important as well. Thinking broadly about those, on the micro level, what is most likely the strongest predictor of violence is previous violent behavior and exposure to violence, so that is something that i think we can all agree that we need to focus on. Thank you, deputy mayor lindsey appiah, do you have anything to add to that . One of the things we believe in the district, we need to address whats happening to enforcement and root causes which is why the district invested, the mayor invested 100 million on affordable housing, additional 18 million in access to Mental Health, untold amounts and recreation programs, i was in the juvenile Justice System in the district, now 11 years so we know intervention for young people through recreation, education, Mental Health services, those are also prevention. Things for young people to do after school and through the summer are very important but i will close by just noting 20 one members, 20 one republicans when it came time to award the congressional gold medal to Police Officers, capitol hill Police Officers, washington dc Police Officers who came to the aid of capitol hill Police Officers on january 6, 21 republicans including my friend, the chair of this committee, voted to oppose that. Has to be something that causes a loss of morale and some decisions to resign. With that i yelled back. You may comment on that if you wish. Thank you. Talking about Police Response on that day, our members were happy to respond to the call. Thank you so much. I extended time for you to answer, were you able to respond . I will continue. I think we understand that that is our duty regardless of whether it is a call for a stolen bicycle or giant riot, our members are going to show up and we are going to bring that situation under control and we were happy to be there that day and render that situation safe. You deserve a goldmedal. Thank you, detective pemberton. I recognize myself for my 5 minutes and i want to ask myisha richards, Gaynor Jablonski, your testimony is invaluable and you addressed interaction with what i would call the victims rights unit of the dc government and i think it might have worked out. I didnt get a chance, were you able to encounter victims rights units . No, sir. No one from the Prosecutors Office came through for victims rights to talk with you . No. But mitchell sobolevsky, Gaynor Jablonski . They reached out to me, they were nice. Its no compensation for what police should be doing, what prosecutors should be doing, what judges should be doing, there shouldnt need to be victims rights or whatever it is, elected officials or whoever is in a position of power enforcing laws that are on the books. Gaynor jablonski. The lady that reached out to me was very nice and offered services for me and my son but when i explained i was upset, she was like i can listen but cant do anything. That gets to the point here, looks like except in your case, miss richards, you didnt have any interaction but the number of this is the prosecutorial arm, sounds like it failed our three witnesses today. In part it is on the prosecutor but also on the judges. Its happening in dc and it is nationwide. It is a problem that scares me for some who just got married, i want to bring kids into this society and it scares me that we have a prosecutorial rot and the judicial rot in our system and their needs to be accountability in that. I will direct the next question to you, detective pemberton. You listed nine laws passed by dc counsel that have an impact on enforcement by the police and one of those seemed to have included elimination of qualified immunity. Is that accurate . That bill was not past. It was introduced and debated but thankfully that bill never made it to fruition but was included in the list because it goes to this rhetoric the council was engaged in and the message that was sent to Police Officers how they felt about them doing their job. That rhetoric, the threat of removing qualified immunity has a suppressive effect on actual policing in my experience of talking to officers, officers become more cautious, because even if as you said, you follow procedures, policies, constitutional statutes, you are at personal risk for liability. Is that accurate . Thats right. A big misnomer on qualified immunity is about criminal charges. Qualified immunity just allows citizens to sue Police Officers as individuals if it were to be removed so the suggestion there is that if a Police Officer were to make a mistake a citizen could sue them for their earnings, savings, home, College Savings and that creates a Chilling Effect on Proactive Police work. Romney a reckoning teen, i want to ask about your comments related to the oag should be illuminated and juvenile cases should be referred to us District Attorney for dc. I ask that question because i am dissatisfied with the performance of mr. Graves, the us attorney for dc. Do you trust him if he were given jurisdiction over juvenile cases that he would enforce those . Would he prosecute those . Im not proposing to a lemonade the oag. This is a City Attorney who does a good job in civil and other matters but moving to criminal functions into the us attorney by expanding the superior Court Division and adding the juvenile and traffic section like most city da offices have, there are good prosecutors in my old office. Im disgusted what happens in the communications here. Im ashamed of what happens in those cases. Wouldnt happen in a good da office, sunlight is a good disinfectant including your Ranking Member who had a productive conversation with mr. Graves who says the declination rate is coming down. I hope thats correct, look forward to seeing the numbers which are coming out soon. The oag held onto as many juvenile cases as they can. To offer a solution, put the juvenile section in the das office and exercise oversight in an appropriate way and change the law so violent juvenile offenders can be handled in adult court. My time is expired. I regret that terribly because theres so much more to talk about. We have a submission from the record. I have an article dated march 13, 2023, that indicates cases that were dropped because of Incorrect Information given to the us attorney and it was agreed to, to have complete information. For cases to be prosecuted, then i want to put into the record response to mister stimson. You put into record the actual us code. No minimum penalty for 9202g, felony provision firearms, there is one for in possession of a firearm in the committing of a crime. My statement that i put into the record unanimously, im going to mention not putting into the record you cant filibuster here. I yield back. Those will be admitted without objection. Can i think the witnesses and express my deep concern for the victims and whatever we say today, i hope we will Work Together to stop Violent Crime. Thank you to the district of columbia. I think our witnesses for testifying today for coming here and i know that it was very difficult for our victims who were witnesses. Appreciate your testimony and also express my deepest regrets that you encountered what you encountered as well as the time it will take to fully heal from that. May god bless you guys. Without objection all members have 5 legislative days for submission of written questions or additional materials for the record. Without objection, the hearing is adjourned. Before i say that, too late, already said it but i also want to give to the record my gratitude to our staff and the Ranking Member would extend her gratitude to staff or preparing for this hearing today. With that, we are adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] the hse is set to return today at noon eastern with the tention of electing a new speaker. Ohio representative jim jordan remains the republican nominee despite oppositionrom members of his own party. As a result is unclear how many rounds of voting it might take for him to reach 217 votes as every member is present in the chamber. Follow the House Speaker election live on cspan. You can watch on the cspan now video apps or online, cspan. Org