Transcripts For CSPAN2 After 20240703

And im excited to talk about the book through with you rht. I guess well start off kind of at the top. Why write book and why publish it . What kind of led you to you to this moment . What thanks. Ag thanks for having me. You know, ive always over the course of my journey, i always said that i would never write a book. I think what changed is i think there was a lot of a little bit of downtime, certainly as we battled through the cares act and recovery, but also a lot of about the things that were happening in america. You know, we a lot of you got a lot of social issues on at the same time where business was crumbling. And so it was a it was a good time to reflect on all of these things. And so began to work on a couple of chapters, ran them by a couple of noted authors, particularly the one that is on my forward to see what it sounded like and i got some good support. So i kept going. And the publishing now is a function of just time and space. Is the publishing world as that takes. You know, it takes a long time to do these things, but its also, i think, hitting at a good time because while the book, as you know, certainly about the Airline Industry, united in particular, i think also a broader message that i hope to convey. I hope people will get out of it kind of a nuanced message towards stability, personal discourse facts, and then some leadership lessons throughout, along with a little bit of my heritage and upbringing that ive never really had a chance to share before. So it was a its been a wonderful journey. Im glad its over. And and im always glad to talk about it. So thank you for having me again . Yeah, definitely. And again, you for being here. And in that introduction just gave you hit on a lot of the topics that im hoping to talk to you about today so really looking forward to this conversation before we actually get into the book, some of the specifics there, i wanted to ask you about some recent news the. Dot recently announced a new notice of proposed rulemaking that would require airlines to compensate passengers for delays or cancel actions that are in the airlines control because. Its so recent. I just kind of wanted to right there. What do you think about as a former airline ceo . You know, im in d. C. Today and ive heard the same news that you have and ive known that its been out there and its been out for some time. And so i think the first thing i would say is, as a customer, are all of the people that listen, theres we get it, we get the pain that people feel when theyre delayed, delayed significantly. And while we as Airline Industry professionals have lots of things that we are constantly working on to make your journey not only safe, but certainly on time. There are broader at play, as they always are, that are not necessarily under our control. So you can you can pretty much rest assured that theres not an airline out there thats looking to have delays that lasts, that time to be sitting on a tarmac to be causing you the pain that that does they theres no one really wanting to theres no benefit theres no reward other than a sharp a sharp stick right in your eye kind of thing with the one with that. So we feel the same pain. I think the issue is as a broader one. And ive spoken a lot this over the course of my tenure as the leader and i still talk about it. I think we need to modernize some of the infrastructure that runs the airspace and that is air Traffic Control systems. The air Traffic Control we have in america is, in my opinion, not only outdated and possibly obsolete, its still safe but you have to really slow down in the air to make sure that it indeed is safe, which the right thing to do. I think there, are many, many countries outside of the us have modernized their systems and. It is one that i think needs to be done in america now. It not easy to do. Its difficult. There probably requires multiple administrations from a federal level to it to support it or in way it needs to be privatized. But it a key factor in broader infrastructure. And as im in america, in addition to obviously the land infrastructure and our roads and bridges. Yeah, you know, that actually is something that you mentioned in the book. You talk about on your first day as ceo, you walked into the United Headquarters to news reports of a major i. T. Meltdown at the airline. So obviously these i. T that you just talked about modernizing the infra, that sort of thing has been going on for a long time. Why do you think this continues to be a problem and kind . How does this actually get addressed well for, from the airline perspective, i mean . You mentioned a great point in my day and our cio. Oh, they are now our chief customer officer and she has emerged wonderfully. We started the migration to the cloud way back then. It is time consuming, it cost money and it requires a lot of focus and effort and. And that journey had to be, you know, had to begin that early. I think the recent issues that youve seen, particularly over the holidays, was, as we now know, sort of a lack of investment in that and that infrastructure. Why . Its hard, its costly. It takes money. And again, back to the Traffic Control aspect of that again. And its not going to be done in a four year period. Its probably going to take maybe three times as that. And its to require the best and brightest in america that america has to offer with regards to developing that and and again, a privatized might work. The government certainly could try to do this. But again, its all ive got. Its all about its all about focus and its all about funding everything that you do. And as Airline Professionals and in speaking for the industry, if i could, i can tell you that by an lar everybody makes every effort, theres a lot of money being spent to make this make make all of these advancements happy make all these investments. Right investments that need to be done for the industry sure. So turning a little bit more officially to the book now in the introduction, you talk about hearing complain that they kind of have a negative view of air travel as you were doing that tour throughout uniteds network. Why do you think people have a pretty still i would say even coming out of the pandemic still a pretty negative view of air travel generally and how can that be addressed, you know, perception reality. So first of all, as as as a person that provides that service to you, it is incumbent upon us to make better regardless. Thats just you. A customer is is right are many many parts of the time maybe not all the fan are always there. And so i think i think why people are because theyre missing something thats important. One of the first big things we rolled out at united was this concept of of understanding through a shared and a shared vision across the of why we did what. We did, of course, you know, we fly aircraft. We get people there from point a to point b, but its deeper than that, right . Its more about understanding that. Each Single Person and each are each single seat is traveling for something really important to them. And having our front folks, these are folks these are you know, these are salt of the earth work really and hard hours to to bring the service. You know if if you commoditize if you if you put too many parameters and rules, it becomes just a job. It isnt the friendly skies. And our and our tagline is important that. When you fly, you feel that and when you put too much structure and structure and rules, it becomes just any other thing. And so the point to make sure that your employees are really engaged in process of taking care of other of taking care of all the services we provide. And so you its it doesnt always work. There are many things that happen that are out of control and so i could go down a long litany, long list of things from air traffic to whether i always cared that Mother Nature is not in for all of you that understand the term role. If its not someone that that is employed by us. And so there are many issues that have to be worked and dealt with. And you have really proud professionals that make that happen. And so and so i think for me the the initial wave of input was knowing some of that but trying to hear it directly as an part of leadership where if you actually someone the question and you listen to them and listen to them intently and then and then lead after youve listen and learn to solve the things are most important. What we learned at was the fact that while coffee and our schedule and, our aircraft and all of those things were, a little bit of an issue by and large, most pointed thing was that we had lost the trust of our own employees. They just didnt want to do things that we wanted to do. And i thats one of the critical components of doing that, listening and learning thing that i speak about. Yeah. And sticking on this network tour for a second, you said at the top of last response that perception is everything. And i think that the average traveler probably has a perception of the ceo of an airline is being possibly a little out of touch with many of the people who fly every day. Ive always wanted ask an airline ceo this so thank you for bearing with me. Did you fly economy when you did that tour . Mostly, i think its a combination of that. You know, over the it depends on the depends on where you going. We at the time still had a lot of these small 50 seater aircraft which do not have a first class. And yes, lot of the time, especially late or, early in the morning, i would fly upfront. And so it was a combination of things. Its you know, its traveling around is is hard and travel difficult for a lot of people. But when you live in the business and these people that are providing service are yours, it is wonderful because i would frankly sit and mostly in an aisle seat so i can get up and talk to the Flight Attendants, i can get up and talk to customers. So i can kind of roam around the plane safely, obviously, when were doing that. So it was important me not only to fly and talk to folks, but to do it without a large of people with me. So the airplane is one thing, but when you hit the airport and, its terminals and you go into every deep byzantine corner and of of a great airport. I mean its fascinating to see what you see behind the rest the rest areas where people eat where people sleep and rest and thats when you get people at their most human level. And for me it was important to have that level of connection. So how i travel and how i got there was important. It was more. But when land and the level of engagement that you have because you know were a 24 by seven operation so you want to talk to our tech ops, our maintenance folks, they only come in at night and obviously aircraft fly during the day mostly and get repaired needed modifications over the course of the evening. So i think the combination your question was, am i, i am i with the people by flying . Not all the time. Was i a voice, the people and listening to them by level of engagement that i did in their workplace at their hours, the things i would definitely say i was very much focused on that piece more than anything. Sure. Thank you. And you also say in the book at one point that the flying is not differentiated enough across airlines. How does that going addressed . What does differentiation look like in an industry with such thin margins . Well, exactly right. And its so hard to do that. And its the Human Element for sure. You know, we we have lost all of that. The friendly skies had become anything. And the thing that needed to recover first was certainly that. And i think i think we had a lot of success in getting our people behind us. And then on that platform, being able to do a lot of the strategic things. So to your point on differentiation, i think what youre seeing at united anyway, and im very proud of this legacy and the work thats being we are differentiating by our efforts on sustainability not in a political way but on a level of economics that makes sense for the business and also doing the right thing for the planet alongside of that. I think were differentiating by the places that we fly you see in the united more than any other airline in the world. Open up the world with so much flying to so many interesting rate areas and hitting at a time americans do want to travel despite. The economic impact, the views and concern. And people still want to travel in a lot of places and were taking quite a bit of advantage of that. And then of course, you differentiate yourself by how you individually are treated by another human when you travel us. And that is the most difficult part. Theres no way to oversee that or to directly sort of gauge how friendly you were off friendly. You werent. And that comes from engaging the the the heart and the mind of your employees. Theyre with you. They understand why important to be great with customers friendly and to provide good service that people will come back so its all those factors plus you know brand new aircraft with great new things. All of those things can be met but cant be met necessarily is the Human Element. And think thats a big differentiating point that has helped united, you know, regain and its status as one of the major top airlines in the world. Yeah. Lets talk a little more about that, actually. You wrote in the book that you did whats right and whats wrong or whats good and whats not good list is you were kind of starting your tenure as ceo. And the first thing that you put at the top of whats right list was uniteds people. From my perspective as an Airline Reporter that honestly could come off as a little cliche. Airlines love to tout people, but what does actually set uniteds people apart . And when you came in, there was very low morale among employees. So how were you to see through that low morale to . What kind of was under the surface that your team and what they could become . Yeah. So put my comment that you noted a little bit of context if i could. I talk about my first travel. I am traveling no one knows that im going to what become the ceo its you know its to be announced the following day so im traveling and of course i have one of those hellacious flights. Its a small 50 seater. Its united express. United. I were laid would we have issues mechanical . I mean, its just its a litany of things that that were going wrong that day. The way i describe is over the course of the that my sitting there im writing of these things down why dont we do this . Why we just why cant we communicate to our employer, to our customers why things are being delayed. So im writing all this stuff as to kind of a whats wrong column. But throughout all of that, what i observed in this small plane with human a woman that that was i was the Flight Attendant watching her sue soothe calm provide a level of humanity and kindness to everyone that was concerned connections and delays even if she didnt the answer and thats what prompted me to say what you might someone you might term as cliche is the fact that you know its like its not whats whats wrong but its you know what is right and that was the first thing i put it right. And so that me the impetus to your question to okay i just saw if i had 50,000 more people like every day doing that sort of thing. I think the perception of our service and our value, despite a lot of things, would more positive. And so as i asked her a couple of she didnt know who i was. She was very nice to answer the things she knew, things she didnt, and that were, to me sort of began to get the inkling that it would be important for me to. Go out and listen to all of those. All in all, the people like her and. Thats what prompted me to go out there and. Its also what gave me a lot of the of what became my real First Initiative was to regain the trust of our employees first before we could do anything else. Yeah, that makes sense, but do want to kind of go back to another of the question, which was that low morale you came into . And again, how did see through the low morale and kind of, what what were the steps that you took to boost that morale . So, you know, i have a background and that i have learned over my experience. Its my part of my heritage as a latino so that family is everything. I mean, we use the term familia and and it just it really it really envelops a sort of emotional connection with folks. So ive always been lucky enough through my formative years to have been the, you know, the the. Need for connection with other and to really, truly listen and also to sense theres some things that you cant get over zoom or a camera or from a pulpit. Youre making speeches to large audiences. And that is that Human Connection when somebody hold your hand just a little longer, looks in your eye with a sense of, potentially without being dramatic a little despair. And when i first made my travels around, our hubs, i could feel a little bit of that emotion, just a you know, a slightly longer handshake a little tugging on the coat. And that was that was my sense that there was something wasnt. Now, this is a time when people are taking pictures. Everybodys smiling and everybodys happy to have a new leader. But at the same time, i could send something so thats thats what i knew there was something going on and then i think first my first big news article with journal where they asked me the question is, so in your short time, what have you seen . I said, i find the fact that our Employee Base is disillusioned, disengaged and disenfranchized, and im embarrassed to say that as a former board member, we didnt see that. And so i was very, very focused and transparent with what i was seeing. So thats what i saw that the fixing part, of course takes time. But my first instinct was to go and listen and learn from all of them, bring them in as part of the solution. Tell me what bulk and tell me what you needs to be fixed. And of course i got thousands and thousands of of levels of input from so many people over the course of my travels which can get a little confusing. And so what what. That initiative was, im traveling back to chicago and i have so much data and information from so many sources and in a turnaround, what you start first is really key to potential success of the turnaround, because theres many things to fix, right . And i had many things to fix. And i had learned even more in my travels. But i had accomplished a couple of tngs. I had a lot of humans in a conversation session where they felt are be getting to feel as part of solution or that they were at least being included and what might be done always clear was to make sure that its like not everything you tell me is what were going to do, because thats not the case. But everythings going to get put into hopper. And from that, were going to glean something. So that was the bright sort of strategic idea from a real, you know, from a real practical perspective. I was getting in inundated with information and data and was beginning to worry about, can you promise everyone that youre going to come back from this trip and have, you know, the thing youre going to do or suggest . And i was worried. And and that fateful trip from denver to chicago with one of our clients, amy sue, is is her name. I went up to just say to her and to ask my question, like i was just asking things like, hey, you know, hows it going or anything you share what it wasnt and werent deeply questions and again similar to the the feeling and sense that i had when i was traveling earlier with the holding a handshake longer etc. She she seemed quite emotional. Her face was just looking to burst with with something, but also at the same time was a place where its like, im not going to waste my breath youre one of many. I think weve had five or six. I forget how many before me in the last decade. So you can imagine a person that works every who has all these different leaders coming and going like, i dont want to waste my time with this. And so i gently touched arm and said, well, listen, im sitting over here. You want anything . And its kind of when pulled her hand back and in a very emotional or a tearful way, said oscar, im just tired of always having to say im sorry. And for me, as reflected on it very quickly, it was magic. Moment is a seminal moment, the sense that god imagined going to work day for many years always, having to apologize. Hey, im sorry. Coffees not well. Im sorry youre late. Im sorry. Cant do this. And you have zero to do with any of those policies or decision. And its how we got folks disillusioned disengaged and disenfranchized just over. They just grow weary of that. And i had been i was beginning to have a sense that i think the first thing is to regain the trust of our employees. Now i would have to go socialize this with the world knowing there would be tons, tons of incoming fire. Wait a second. You know, you got to do stuff for your employees. What about your customers . What about your investors . And theres a many constituents in this. So i had to do a lot of socializing in order to do that. But things would get in the way. Things like my health instance. Sure. And you know, its actually i didnt want to go too without turning to that because you dedicate a lot of time in the book to talking about your health. And i really want give you a minute to talk about that. What is message, especially on heart health . Its simple. It is the largest its the single largest killer in america by far. By far, i mean more than half the deaths in america. So cancer, all those awful diseases, unfortunately, the Heart Disease is the main killer. Why the symptoms of a heart attack are many and varied it is not a oh my god, its the big one. And you hold your chest and theres just so many different flows. His blood gets blocked, either heading up, up north or south of the heart. And it can have so many different a, b dont always know that those symptoms are serious cause you just feel a little off or a little weird. And a lot of us in particular will tend to, you know, sit down, lay down, jump in the shower, or just sort of blow it off. And unfortunately, with with know the blockage of blood to your external through extremities and your vital organs that is often a decision. So if you do lay down you may not you know, you may not wake up from that. And so thats i think the message, the psa if you will and i got this from a real close of mine who is a cardiologist who one day said, you know, if you ever feel weird, call 911 and all the worst you you know, if you ever feel weird, not call 911, the worst you can be as embarrassed that you have indigestion or something, which made sense to a degree. Secondly, what he added which was suited to my survival, when you call 911, tell them where you are. That makes sense but he had a dramatic, tell them where you are because you may not make it past the phone call. I remember where i wasnt heard him say that, thats a little dramatic but fast forward a couple years, just came from iran, turned vegan, not overly fit, but across the room, i feel my legs kind of weekend i crumbled to my knees and felt a little clammy. My immediate thought was that comment, that feels weird. I immediately crawled to the landline, some of you watching may remember what that is. And called 911 and told him im on the fiftieth floor of a chicago highrise, gps on my cell phone might have taken a little too long, called back to the front door, that the emps in and within 37 minutes i was on life support, an artificial heart lung machine. That i have an extra 5 minutes or 20 minutes i dont know but im thankful i was able to get into that situation as quickly as i could. You wrote that you needed to keep it under wraps from the public and most of the people at united. What did everyone think was going on that day . You missed a lot of important meetings. And abusing sidebar, the story goes from my doctors and nurses, i dont remember much of this, i was coherent in providing information about numbers and information for people to contact but i also kept muttering, they tell me, something under my breath and that something was i dont have time for this. I had a big, all the Union Leaders were coming in. I was interviewing a cfo candidate. Id been on the road listening, had those things to walk through so it was a busy time and because of medical privacy, i went into the hospital under an assumed name to hide from the media because the media was everywhere. The rumors began to fly, and corporate folks did not know, were not aware of what was happening because my family was still in coming. I was in a coma by this time. There are a lot of moving parts to that. I talk a lot about that in the book and the drama that surrounded that first day because i disappeared. What happens when your ceo doesnt show up . A lot of scramble, how quickly the company got into a mode, learned a little more about my situation and did all the right things to announce an interim ceo, but it was certainly a dramatic moment. Reporter you talked in your book about your relationship with one of the Flight Attendants who you met in the hospital, talk a little bit more about what that relationship meant to you. A broader message to everyone. We all know someone who has been afflicted with disease or illness, they may be in the hospital or at home, so many of us are so well intentioned. I should write bill or send something to mary and her family and we dont want to bother them and all that, dont do that. If somebody means something to you, send them a note. It could be a text, could be a scribble. As someone who was afflicted and spending long nights in a hospital, every word, every message, every small gift was incredibly, incredibly supportive of my Mental Health and increasingly my physical health and so i have forgotten part of a question. I was asking about your relationship with fernando, the Flight Attendant you met in the hospital. To that end, as i was getting slightly better and help stabilize and come out of my coma and was in the hospital and learned that i would require a transplant and i was fighting that but realizing i had to do that, i had a couple of visitors that had heart transplants who come in just to say hello, i remember one person in particular who came in, happy and fit, i hate you, i want to be like you but lets do that. That physical connection with somebody who has been through it is really important for me to see. You are going to take my heart out and put another one in . Thats not a good plan, so in the world of sort of paying it forward, to use a term i learned over the course of my stay at the hospital there was another individual in an earlier stage of Heart Disease that was going through it in similar conditions and would be waiting for transplant as well who just happened to be a Flight Attendant at united and a fellow latino and when somebody came in, didnt want to bother me, theres another person, as soon as i heard the fact that he was a United Family member, come on, it was again, two latinos facing the same issues if you will coming together in the hospital room with all the emotion and drama, i remember them saying we will spend 5 minutes, this is not going to take 5 minutes, this is going to be a much longer conversation. As soon as i walked in, fernando was there with a close friend and his partner in the emotion erupted from seeing each other and i think it helped that conversation, he never got his heart. He waited and waited and, i did wait only for a couple of weeks only to find out about my heart on my actual birthday. The blessings that i have are many and varied and i wrote the book, part of it is a lot of the gratitude that i feel every day. Reporter also wrote that uniteds people, not just fernando, the immediate core of executives but the team in general as responsible as anyone else for your recovery, thats what you said in the book, can you talk more about the role the united team played in your recovery . I mentioned it really fully with the outpouring of affection and cards, that just confirmed what i had learned in my listening, that the people of united were like family and had begun to embrace me not as an outsider but as someone they could trust to lead them out of the wandering moment we were in this desert so i think their level of engagement and support, not justice but many other occurrences over the course of my tenure, i do not take care of you, i do not serve you meals, not taking care of your bag, they are and they do it with a wonderful level of professionalism and pride and it is important for me to say that in the book, its a long love letter to united employees but my hope is that when people read it they will understand what happens behind the scenes, the people that actually do that work every day with such difficult aspects. Employees come to work because they are supposed to be there, many dont know when they are going home because they dont know what the situation is going to be and are so focused on getting you where you need to be, people will work long hours and uncertain hours and they cant tell their families they will be home. So i think, i say at the end of the book, i came to change united, but united and its people changed me because i appreciate all the things they do. Host wire uniteds people so invested in you as a person, to give you that outpouring of support, not everyone would do that for the ceo of their company, why do you think you had that . I would attribute it to my listening tour. Started with the letter that was sent out to employees when i was announced, the first letter that was drafted for me with my approval and review was kind of a corporate album. Didnt say anything to you. Me understanding a little bit by being on the board but knowing that we had had lots of turmoil, a merger that wasnt going well, many leaders in the course of the last decade and if somebody else knew what was coming, it had to sound different so i took pen to paper and wrote what i thought was a much more personal note, given them insight as to who i am as a human and what i would be doing, not in a g. I. Hope to hear from you, i wrote it in a way that connected with a lot of people, people began to say not only does he have a last name that sounds different from everyone else, not he also sounds, we will wait to see, so i think part of that initially was that and then, something i call proof, not promise, the letter was wonderful and connected with people but it promised a lot of things. What are you going to do and when are you going to do it . Me going on the road, the front level of the organization, 1on1 basis, we dont have factory floors had an industry. There is not a place where you see a few people at one time, everyone is constantly working on a few taking a break at different times. Making that connection during my early time, to really engage and listen, that word traveled fast and it resonated with many people and i was looking to do something different. There was a lot of pushback. I just got i describes the more emotional moments sitting in front of a few hundred maintenance folks innate anger and they were angry, havent had a contract for a while, nothing is going right, we got a split decision about aircraft, the way united did and the way continental did it, their job every day is miserable and filled with acrimony and distrust and no compensation, so understandably upset but being able to stand there and listen and get them to provide actionable items, you can yell and scream all you want, you can tell me to fire every one, give me something more tangible. What can i help lead and move forward . A lot of those conversations resonated and the fact that i got sick, 37 days into my job i had a heart attack, the combination of those and the outreach and everyone talking about my level of engagement had a lot to do with why they were so supportive. Host you had a turbulent 5 years at united and it wasnt all in your control, you were book ended by your heart attack and covid, the doctor doubt incident in the middle, it was hardly assumed failing over the course of your tenure as ceo, how did you stay on track through all those peoples . The Airline Industry is turbulent by its nature, economic forces, covid, 93 of our revenue disappeared within a couple of weeks. Doesnt get more turbulent than that. For all of us that lead, its not specific to me. We have a mission, we have a view and a level of engagement and connection with our people, you learn by mistakes, you mentioned doctor death, one of my bigger mistakes from a communication perspective but you fought through that, you rectify it and its never too late to do the right thing so you fight through that crisis of your own doing, crises that are not youre doing, you take care of your folks as well as you can, you lobby, you lobby in dc for the level of help required to maintain an airline working so you stay focused and above all you have a great group of leadership that supports you and is really knowledgeable and focused and aligned and you have a working group of people that say i trust that these leaders are going to take care of things. It was such an important platform with everything we did. I can guarantee united would not be in a situation that it is today, growing and looking to the future. It would have been much more difficult ride during covid head they not trusted their leadership because we had to make tough decisions and count on them to trust us to do the right thing. You said one way united sets itself apart from its competitors is its commitment to sustainability and you wrote in the book that you see corporations having a responsibility to, quote, persistently and ethically address large global issues and i wanted to ask you about that. Why do you see sustainability as uniteds big issue that it is positioned to address and what are the other things that united other airlines, largecompany are in a position to tackle . First and foremost weve become a divided world where everything is either right or left oriented or politically motivated or personal agenda. We burn as an Industry Worldwide close to 100 billion gallons of jet fuel. Should we not have a level of responsibility and awareness the impact of that on this planet is not insignificant . We can debate Climate Change and everyone has their viewpoints but if indeed you believe this level of carbon emission has an impact, can you do something about it . We can do something. The real question is will you do something about it . Given the nature of our business and the level of Carbon Emissions its just a matter of time before something is going to break in our system social we should begin to plan ahead and think of what the future might be, so Sustainable Aviation fuel is a great example. For a couple reasons. Yes, it is better for the planet, but the way we began and i begin to coerce some of our leaders around the world in the industry is the economic benefit. Not talking about social issues or political issues but the fact is that fuel on the p l of an airline is one of the biggest lineups besides labor. Fuel goes up and fuel goes down and guess what our equity is doing . Fuel spikes up, Airline Industry stocks go down. It makes our industry not investable, its not as investable as others because theres so much uncertainty. You can run a perfectly wonderful Great Airline but fuel spikes in your stock goes down. Think of the concept of Sustainable Aviation, think of it as a consistent nonvolatile pricing model with regards to one of your biggest costs. Think of the value on your equity if investors didnt have to worry about the stock price, that began to resonate in a business discussion and economic one rather than a social one because it makes all the sense in the world and in a world of Market Forces which are very efficient, if indeed the Airline Industry begins to create a demand for Sustainable Aviation fuel, the supply side will happen. Industry, economy, startups, this is a manmade problem and it can be fixed by men as well, jfk said that a long time ago, something to push with, can you do something and will you do something about it . Thats an issue we took on early on. My successor, i would put United Airlines as not just the best airline, we could be one of the Top Companies in the world through sequestration, investment on the future in fuel and the investments we are making. It is an important part and it also helps the climate itself. You can be principled and profitable at the same time. Host you wrote more broadly in the book about the need for more general Sustainable Travel revolution. What does that mean beyond Sustainable Aviation fuel . Uniteds partner has an investment in the German Railway service where they can sell through ticketing on a mixed itinerary. Doesnt look like united investing in highspeed rail in the us, what does Sustainable Travel revolution across the board actually mean . Guest integration is something that has been done for ages. A couple things specific to highspeed rail, yet another of those societal political funding issues in the us. Its very accepted in europe as you know and weve gotten back there and the amount of cost that is going to be required, dont know that i would support a move into another industry with its own issues, we have plenty to do inside the airline and the focus for the Airline Industry is to move towards more sustainable electric plane, electric flying cars, vertical takeoff and landing, archer is a company im associated with. Others boom supersonic, supersonic is coming back, more customer friendly, safer, sustainable and comfortable approach so i think united continues to delve into investing in the Sustainable World of fuel and vehicles to do that along with wonderful things for your convenience. The level of information and entertainment you have on board will happen, food and coffee will be refined. It is not easy, perfect food that everybody wants on every flight and we could keep pushing the envelope on that as well. Host that is something united is criticized for, the catering has a ways to go to catch up. What are the barriers there . It is logistics. Its people space, so many different things. We had our own kitchen, probably the only us airline to do that. I was proud of the work we did. United employees put this food together for you but a lot of it, different issues, we had to begin to outsource some of that part of his economics and the business dynamic, logistically its very difficult, taste is very difficult, youve seen the apps rollout that allow you to choose a broad array of meals and you are working in a very confined space at 35,000 feet so all those things dont make for a good avenue to serve good food so in addition to trying to improve the onboard experience at united, youve seen it build if you travel with us frequently, youve seen all our clubs be updated, the food being improved, weve spent a lot of money doing that to enjoy themselves, relax, get a meal before they get on the aircraft. People are trying, tastes are different and things are not it is a constrained space, the journey continues. Host you talked about connecting with people during your tour because you came from similar backgrounds as a lot of the employees you were meeting in the network, can you talk about your upbringing and personal background positioned you to lead the airline at the time you were you there because i know you come from a Strong Union Family and ura latino and many people who work for you are so that was different to see someone like you at the top. Guest host guest its a special moment. It is hard for people to understand what it means for a person of your heritage, to see another person of their heritage in a position of authority, of leadership. It is heartwarming, tearjerking, that level of response because of what you just said. Shared heritage, made it differently, not many people that work those jobs get a chance to see someone that looks like them, speak like them, understand their culture. We use a term in spanish which is i think people are genuinely warmed that someone like me could be in the role that i have. Again, you see the sprinkles of the importance of my heritage and upbringing, a lot of the decisions i have to make, listening and learning, connecting with people is one of the. When i speak of my maternal grandmother who i spent 8 years traveling around the countryside of mexico, wanting to reconnect with my mother and her work ethic, our ability to go from home to home to meet with people and it has a deeper resonance in the latin language, family means a lot of wonderful things in the us but theres something about latin view that is warm and accepting and embracing of different views. That help to me, my grandmothers work ethic, she ended up as a maid at the Flamingo Hotel in las vegas and she was named to the hall of fame of employees and that still exists and when i go by i get to see that so that kind of example, the concept of proof, not promise, my grandmother did nothing ever, on hard work, caring for others, never complaining, never blaming someone else and all of that upbringing is part of my heritage for sure but part of her and other family members as well and that helps as i entered a very fractured, disengaged organization that was looking for something and found someone who was willing to listen and genuinely desires their input. Host turning to covid you said the united ultimately realized the 93 drop in demand. How did the airline or any airline survive and recover . It was a mad scramble. Fair to say that we at united were the first to recognize the potential impacts. I was on the cover of the New York Times shortly after a meeting with the white house with donald trump and Vice President pence in a position where my arms are open like this from telling a story. We have seen more fatally completely devoid of anybody traveling or anybody booking a ticket, south korea had an outbreak as well as north italy and italy is a lot closer to the us than korea. Couldnt help but think, we didnt know what the disease was but if indeed it is airborne or foodborne or whatever it was going to hit the borders of the us quickly so we began to quickly assess what that impact might be. Weve seen models before, 9 11 was a situation, complete shutdown of air travel. Only lasted a few months. We had no idea how long this would last or what level it would go. We began to do math. How you survive is do the math, how long can you go before you are bankrupt . Our finance team did some work, 25 drop, 50 drop and i remember a conversation about taking it up to 75, it went to 93 and all of us spending time with ceos in the United States talking the potential impact that could be, we started early. We went to the debt market quickly, began to sort of wait for the incoming storm but wheat no what level it would take so we survived by getting a little bit ahead of it and we worked hard in dc to get the cares act passed. A lot of people even then would term it as a bailout similar to the auto industry. Look at the Airline Industry which had never been in a better financial position than early 2020, at united we had just delivered 3year projections a year in advance, getting ready to project the next few years. We were in a better place but we got hit by something out of our control, the level of impact we discussed so we were able to work with the government to get us enough money to keep our people working. Whys that important . You want the economy overcharge, you want business and commerce to return, you have to have people flying, can t do that without an airline. We as an airline shut down, you dont just dont bring them back in a week or month, pilots need to constantly flyer to be certified so if you sent them home, you certify, also the safety aspect of that. A host of things that if you shut down the industry and want to return the economy quickly, those things were opposed to each other and so we made that conversation and negotiation and painfully to the day the constraints on the Airline Industry, compensation of executives, things you do from a financial perspective and continue to be restricted so its not a handout and not a bailout but to your answer, the ability to keep everyone working has demand, not only did it help the industry but it helps the economy begin to regain. I talk about the Small Business folks in america even during covid. Corporations have a lot of wherewithal, going to work from home and do all those things, but the people that really drive our economy isnt the Small Business owner that hustles every day, they cant afford to stay home, they have to go visit their customers, they have to go make their products and those are the people that need the ability to get there in the world of transportation so are those arguments were made time and again and the administration passed and Congress Passed all of that. Host you talk about different stakeholders, passenrs, employees, shareholders for the company. If you had to pick just one and im going to make you pick one, which of those stakeholders takes priority and why . History of united turnaround taking priority, employees, we could not have done anything weve done without their complete support and today if you ask me the same question i would answer it the same way, the people that deliver the service, its a decentralized workplace. It is an individual, he or she has to be wanting to do the right thing for the right reasons for our customers and you have to really, you cant force them to do that, you cant demand that they do that. Theres something called discretionary effort that we all have, how hard we work, how big the effort is. If you get peoples hearts and minds behind it, to this day my admonition to everybody in the industry is dont lose your people, united lost its people and look how difficult that was to come out of that. If you lose your people again, we wont necessarily work to get out of those doldrums. Host go read turnaround time, so many questions i didnt get to ask you. I wish we had more time but thank you for writing the book and sitting down with me to answer these questions. If you re enjoying booktv, sign up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive the schedule of upcoming programs tomato discussions, book festivals and more. Booktv every sunday on cspan2 or anytime online, booktv. Org. Television for serious readers. Reporter a healthy democracy doesnt just look like this. It looks like this, where americans can see democracy at work with citizens being truly informed, a republic thrives. Get informed straight from the source on cspan, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. From the Nations Capital to wherever you are. The opinion that matters most is your own. This is what democracy looks like. Cspan powered by cable. Host joining us now on booktv is author richard viguerie. His book is go big the Marketing Secrets of richard a. Viguerie. What do you do for living . Guest my mother went to her grave a few years ago not understanding what i did. I