Thank you so much for being here and im excited to talk about the book with you. I guess we will start off at the top. Why write this book and publish it now, what led you to this moment . Over the course of my journey i always said that i would never write a book. I think what changed his there was a little bit of downtime certainly and we battled the act and the recovery but also a lot of reflection about things that were happening in america and we had a lot of social issues going on so to begin to work on a couple of chapters and ran them by a couple of authors particularly the one to see what it sounded like and i got some good support so i kept going and at the publishing now is a function of the time in space as it takes a long time to do these things. Its also hitting at a good time because by the book as you know its certainly about the Airline Industry and united in particular. Theres also a broad message that i hoped to convey or i hope that people will get out of it, kind of a nuanced message toward stability, discourse, facts and leadership lessons throughout along withha my heritage. Its been a wonderful journey and im glad its over. Im always glad to talk about it. Thanks for having me. Thank you for being here and in the introduction you gave you handled a lot of the topicss i hope to talk about today so looking forward to this conversation. Before we get into the book and some of the specifics i want to ask about some recent news. The dot recently announced a new notice of proposed rulemaking that would require airlines to compensate passengers for delays or cancellations in the airlines control. Because it is so recent i wanted to go right to there. What do you think of that as a former airline a ceo . I am in dc and all the people that listen as customers, we get it, the painin people feel. We had lots of things we were constantly working on to stay not only safe but certainly on time. There are broader issues at play that are not necessarily under our control, so you can rest assured to be sitting on a tarmac, to be causing you the pain that there is no benefit or freeboard other than a sharp stick in your i. The issue is a broader one and ive spoken about this over the course of my tenure and i still talk about it today. We needed toe modernize some of the infrastructure. In my opinion it is outdated, still safe but you have to slow everything down to make sure that indeed it is the right thing to do and i think there are many countries u outside of the u. S. That modernized the system and it is one that i think needs to be done here in america. It is not easy to do. Its difficult and requires multiple administrations from a federal level to support it or in some way it needs to be privatized. But it is a key factor in addition to the land and roads and bridges. That is something you mentioned in the book y you tald about as your first day of ceo you walked into the headquarters and the news reports of a major meltdown of the airline so obviously these issues you talkedhi about, modernizing the infrastructure has been going on for a long time. Why do you think this continues to be a t problem and how does this get addressed . From the Airline Perspective you mentioned a great point. They are now the chief customer officer that has emerged wonderfully. We started the migration way back then. Its time consuming it costs money and it requires a lot of focus and effort and that journey had to begin that early. The recent issues particularly over the holidays as we know a lack of investment in that infrastructure. Its horrid, costly, takes money and back to the air Traffic Control aspectng its not goingo be done in a four year period. Its going t to take twice, maye three times that and request the best and brightest america has tog offer with regards to developing that and again the privatized matter might work. The government could try to do this but again its all about effort and focus and funding. The airline professnals and the industry i can tell you that by and large theres a lot of money being spent to make all of these advancements happy, make all these investments, the right investments that need to be done for the industry. Turning to theon book now, yu talk about hearing passengers complain that they haveai a negative view of air travel as yo were doing that to her throughout the network. Why do you think people have a pretty still i would say even coming out of the pandemic a negative view generally and how can that be addressed . Perception is reality. Aspe a person that provides that it is incumbent upon us to make it better. The customer is right many parts of the time. Maybe not all the facts are there so i think while people are upset because they are missing something thats important. One of the things we rolled out atin united was this concept of understanding to a shared purpose and vision across the corporation. Its more about understanding each person is traveling for something important to them and we have enough these are union folks and salt of the earth work long and hard hours if you put too many parameters and rules. The tagline is important and when you put too much structure and scripture and rules it becomes many other things and so maybe the point is to make sure that your employees are engaged in the process of taking care of other, allvi the services that e provide. It doesnt always work so i could go down a long litany, long list of things. Mother nature to understand the term rolodex is not someone that is employed by us so there are many issues that havewi to be dealt with. You listen to them and listen to them intently and then you see the things most important. We learned united was the fact that while coffee and a schedule and aircraft and all those things were a little bit of an issue by and large the most pointed thing is we have lost the trust of our own employees that didnt want to do thean things we wanted to do. Thats one of the critical components i speak about. Sticking to thisti network tr that perception is everything i think that the average traveler has a perception of the ceo of Vienna Airline as being a little out of touch with many of the people that flight every day. Did you fly economy when you did that . I think its a combination. It depends on where youre going. At the time we have these aircraft that do not have a firstclass and especially late early in the morning i would fly up front so it was a combination of those things. Traveling around is hard and difficult for a lot of people but when you live in the business end of the people providing the service are yours, it is wonderful because i would frankly sit and get up and talk to the Flight Attendants and customers and kind of roam around the p plane safely so its important for me not only to fly and talk to folks but to do it without a large group of people with me. When you hit the airport and its terminal and go into every corner its fascinating to see the rest areas where people eat and sleep and rest. Thats where you get people at their most human level and for me it was important to have that connection. How i got there was more important on the level of engagement that you have because 24 7 operation you want to talk to the maintenance folks we only come in at night and obviously aircraft fly during the day mostly and needed modifications, so the question was m. I. With the people flying economy, not all the time. Was i a voice of the people with the level of engagement i would definitely say i was very much focused on that more than anything. You also say inin the book te experience is notw differentiad enough. At how does that get addressed, what does the differentiation look like with such a margin . Exactly. We have lost all of thatnd so te friendly skies have become anything but. And the thing we needed to recover first getting our people behind us and on that platform being able to do a lot of the strategic things to so to the point on the differentiation i think what youre seeing, im proud of the legacy into the work that is being done on the efforts of sustainability, not in o a political way but in a level of economics that makes senseoi for the business and dog the right thing for the planet alongside of that. I think we are differentiating by the places we apply and use the mark and any otherhe airline in the world open up with so much to so many areas and hitting at a time when americans do want to travel despite the economic views and concerns, peoplef still want to travel a lot of places and we are taking advantage of that. Then you differentiate yourself by how youen are treated by another human when you travel and that is the most difficult part because there is no way to oversee that and to directly gauge how friendly you are and how friendly you werent and that comes from a the heart and mind of yourur employees with yu and they understand why its important to be great with customers. Itss all those factors plus aircraft. All those things can be met but cant be met necessarily the Human Element and that is a big differentiating point that is helped regain i its status. Letsu talk more about that. You wrote in the book that you did a a what was right and not good and started your tenure as ceo and the first thing you put atat the top of that list is United People. As an Airline Reporter that could come up as a little cliche. What does set United People apart wass low morale i talk about my first. Nobody knows im going to become thee ceo. Itsy going to be announced the following day so im traveling incognito and i have one of those small 50 seaters. The way i describe it why dont we do this and why dont we communicate to our customers why things are being delayed so im writing all this stuff but throughout all of that, what i observe what is right and that is the first thing so that it gaveme the impetus to the quest. I saw 50,000 more people like her every day doing that sort of thing. I think the perception of the business and a lot of things would be more positive and so if i asked a couple of questions, she didnt know who i was, she was very nice to answer. Thatt begins to get the inkling that it would be important to go out and listen to all those people. Thats also what gave me the inside before we could do anything else. I want to go back to another part of the question. How did you see through the low morale and what are the steps you took to boost the morale . I have a background that ive learned over my experience and its also part of my heritage as a latino that family is everything. We use the term for in spanish, so ive always been lucky enough in my formative years the genuine need for connection. There are some things you cant get and that is that Human Connection where somebody holds your hand a little bit longer, looks in your eye with a little despair and when i first made my travels around, i could feel a little bit of that emotion. A slightly longer hand shake and tugging at the code and that is my sense this is the time everybodys taking pictures and happy to have a new leader but at the same time thats when i knew there was something going on and my first big news article with the journal i said i find it the fact that its disenfranchised and im embarrassed to say is a former board member we didnt see that so i was very focused and transparent so thats what i saw. The fixing part takes time but my instinct was to listen and bring them in as part of the solution. Tell me what you think needs to be fixed and i got thousands and thousands of input so what would culminate that initiative as im traveling back to chicago and i have so much data and information and i turn around the situation. What you start with first is key to the potential success of the turnaround because theres many things to fix. I had many things to fix and learn even more in my travel but i accomplished couplee of things. Si there was a conversation where people were beginning to feel as part ofg the solution were being included in what might be done. Not everything you tell me is what we are going to do. But nevertheless, everybodys going tong get put in and we are going to gleam something so that was the right sort of strategic idea from the practical perspective i was getting inundated with information and beginning to worry about okay you promisedou everyone youre going to come back and have what youre going to do. Or suggest and i was worried and that the tripfrom denver to chicago. I went up to say hello to her. There were not deeply analytical questions and similar to the sense of holding a handshake longer et cetera, she seemed quiteo emotional. Her face was looking to burst with something but also at the same time a placece like im not going to waste my breath. Get five or six ceos in the last decade or so you can imagine a person that works every day i dont want to waste my time with this, so i gently touched her arm and said im sitting over here if you want anything. Its when she pulled her hand back in a very emotional and tearful way said im just tired of always having to say im sorry. For me it was the magic moment imagine goingg to work for years having to apologize i dont want to go too far without turning to that. What is your message especially onon heart health . Its simple. Its the largest single largest killer in america by far. More than half in america so cancer, all those awful diseases. Unfortunately, Heart Disease is the main killer. Why . The symptoms of a heart attack are many and varied. You dont always know the symptoms are serious because you just feel a little off or weird and a lot of us will tend to sit down, lay down, jump in the shower, sort of blow it off with a blockage of blood to your extremities and vital organs that is often a bad decision. So you do not wake up from that and that is the message. The psa if you will and i got this from a close friend of mine whos a cardiologist who one day said if you ever feel weird to call 911. Theha worst you can be is a lite embarrassed you had indigestion or something. You call 911. That is a little dramatic. I hear my phone buzzing across the room and i go to get it. I feel my legs kind of week. They call 911 and immediately told them because it was the 50th floor of the chicago highrise. I was on life support being an artificial lung machine and medically induced coma. I was thankful i was able to get into that situation as quickly as i could. You need to keep it under wraps for the public and most of the people at united. There were a lot of important meetings coincidentally. For my doctors and nurses. With numbers and information to peopleal to contact but i also kept moderating and that something was i dont have time for this. For medical privacy, i went into the hospital to sort of hide it from the media because it was everywhere the rumors began to flyw and corporate folks did nt know or were not aware of what was happening because my family was still incoming. The drama that surrounded that first day because i disappeared. They learned a little bit more about the situation and we do the right things as its required. It was certainly dramatic moments. He also talked in the book about your relationship with one of the Flight Attendants that youhe met in the hospital. Can you talk a little bit more about what that relationship meant to you . A broad message to everyone we all know someone thats been afflicted with these oriented illness. They may be at home and so many of us are wellintentioned. I should write a bill or send something. We dont want to bother them and all of that. It doesnt have to be anything. If someone that was afflicted has a lonely depressing night in the hospital, every word, every message. I forgot part of the question. I was asking about your relationship with fernando the Flight Attendant you met in the hospital. I i was getting slightly betr and stabilized and was in the hospital and learned i would require a transplant. They had heart transplants to come in and say hello. I remember one person in particular. If it is going to do that, that physical connection thats been through it is importantli to se. Youre going to take my heart out and put another one in . I learned over the course of my stay in the hospital there was anotherrl individual in an earlr stage. Theyve been waiting for a transplant to tell who happened to be a fellow latino and when somebody came in and they didnt want to bother me theres another person and when i heard the fact it was a United Family member, it was to latinos facing the same issues if you will coming together in a hospital room with all the emotion and drama. There was a close friend and his partner. The emotion erupted. The sad endg to that is that he never got his heart. He waited and waited. I waitedut a couple of weeks to find out about my art on the morning of my birthday. To let it a lot of thought of gratitude out. I feel that every day. Not just fernando, not just of the immediate corps of core f executives that the team in general as anyone else for your recovery. Can you talk more about the role that the united a team of the company played in your recovery . I mentioned it briefly with all the outpouring of affection. That confirmed what i learned by listening. Not as an outsider but to trust to lead them out. Their level of engagement and support on the other occurrences in the course of my tenure i do not take care of you or serve you meals. Not taking care of your bag, all those things and they do it in a wonderful level of professionalism and pride its important to say that in the book a lot. My hope is that when people read it, they will understand what happens behind the scenes. I talk a lot about it. Employees come to work many of them dont know when they are going home because we dont know what the situation is going to be. They cant tell their family they will be home in x amount of time and so i think the employee, i came to change united but they changed me and i began to appreciate all that they do and how well they do. On the question of the recovery why do you think they were so invested as a person to give you that outpouring of support. The letter that was sent out to employees, the first letter drafted and sent was kind of corporate. Why there was lots of turmoil in a merger that wasnt going well. It had to sound different and so again i took pen to paper and wrote what i thought was a personal note and what i would be doing. It connected with a lot of people and people began to say not only does he have a last name that sounds different than anyone w else but we will wait o see if he acts differently. It is proof not promise. What are you going to do and when are you going to do it . Theres the most current level of the organization. We dont have factory floors in the industry. Theres not a place that you see a few people at any point in time. The word traveled fast and was ignited with many people. In my view there was a lot of pushback and i describe a couple of the more dramatic and emotional moments where they are sitting there in front of the text o and they havent had a contract for a while. Their job every day is miserable and filled with all sorts of acrimony so understandably upset about being able to listen and get them to provide me what i would say give me something more tangible. What is it that cane help us me forward so theres those conversations that i think designated when i had that heart attack it is all the combination of those into the outreach and everyone talking about my level of engagement had a lot to do with why they were so supportive. You had a pretty turbulent five years. How did you stay on track through all of those upheavals . Economic forces, covid. 93 of the revenue disappeared within a couple of weeks. I think for all of us that lead. We learn by mistakes sometimes. Its never too late to do the right thing. Its required tone maintain in e line of working so you stay focused and we have a great group of leadership that supports you and focus and you have a working group of people that say i trust that these are going to take care of things. Back to green gaining the trust of the employees and its such an important platform i can guarantee united wouldnt be in the situation that it is today looking for the future. It would have been a much more difficult route had they not interested in their leadership because we had to make tough decisions. One of the ways is the commitment to sustainability having the responsibility to, quote, persistently and ethically address large global issues and i want to ask about that why do you see sustainability and what are some of the things that united and other companies are in the position to tackle . We become a bit of a divided world with the personal agenda. We burned close to 100 billion gallons. Should we not have a level of responsibility and awareness. We can debate climate change. Given the nature of the business and the level of Carbon Emissions its a matter of time before something is going to break in the system so we should begin to plan ahead and think of what the future might be so the state of fuel is a great example. E. The way. Theres so much uncertainty you can run a Great Airline but the stock goes down. Think of the value on your equity if investors didnt have to worry about the volatility and that began to resonate as a business discussion rather than ae social one because it makes all the sense in the world. The airline a industry as a whoe created a demand or some type of a Sustainable Aviation fuel the supply side will happen. Industries, economies. Jfk said that a long time ago. Can you do something and will you do something about it. Leading through sequestration, the investments, sustainable vehicles in the future and it also helps. You can be principled and profitable. What does that mean beyond , Sustainable Aviation fuel . Theres ant investment in the German Railway service where they can sell through ticketing on a mixed itinerary. Does it look like united investing and what does the Sustainable Travel revolution across the board actually mean . I think integration in the businessu horizontally and vertically. I think a couple of things. Its yet another one of those funding issues people to travel on trains in the u. S. The amount of cost so i dont know that i would support a move into another industry. We have plenty to do inside with ae focus of the airline industy to move towards more. Theres boom supersonic thats coming back any more customer friendly sustainable comfortable approach so united continues to delve into the Sustainable World and wonderful things. I think the level of information and entertainment will happen. Food and coffee will continue. Its not easy to serve perfect food that everybody wants on every single flight and we know we keep pushing the envelope on that as well. I know that is something they are still criticized for. What are kind of the barriers. Logistics. So many Different Things. We had our own kitchens and i was proud of the work that we did, united employees put this together for you in a lot of cases but we began to outsource some of that. Logistically its very difficult. A broad array of meals and again youre working in a very cconfined space and 35,000 feet so they dont make fran avenue. In addition to trying to improve the onboard experience youve seen it build out our clubs if you travel with us frequently using all our clubs and airports being updated. The food is being improved. We spent a lot of money doing that so people can enjoy themselvesaf and relax. Theres many issues but people are trying and the journey continued. You talked about connecting with people that came from similar backgrounds. Can you talk about the upbringing and how it positions positionedyou to lead at the tie there because they know you come from a Strong Union Family and because you are latino and many of the people that work for you so it was different to see someone at the top. Its a special moment honestly and people that are not minority found it hard for people to understand what it means for a person of your same heritage to see another person in the position of authority of leadership. It is heartwarming and tearjerking. It just made it differently. Someone that looks like them ann speaks like them. People are just genuinely warned. That helped but i think throughout the book you see sprinkles of the importance of my heritage and myin upbringing find a lot of the decisions i have to make over the course of my tenure. Connecting with people is certainly one of them. I waited to reconnect with my mother and her work ethic, our ability to go from home to home to meet with people, and the word has a deeper residence in the latin language. Theres something about it to that is accepting and embracing of different views so that helped me. Was 86 and ended up at the hotel in las vegas. To the hall of fame of employees and when i get the chance to go by, that kind of example hard work, caring for others, never complaining and all that upbringing that helped as i entered a very fractured organization looking for something. They found someone that was willing to listen and genuinely desires. Thank you. Returning to covid for a second they realized a 93 drop in demand. How did the airline or any airline survive and ultimately come to recover . It was a mad scramble. We united were the first to recognize the potential impact. I was on the cover of the New York Times after a meeting at the white house where my arms are literally open like this telling the story weve seen them void of anybody traveling that this is when south korea had an outbreak and italy is a lot closer so the nature couldnt help but think we didnt know what the disease was but it was going to hit the borders of the u. S. Quickly so we began to assess what that impact might be. That only lasted a few months. The question how you survive, how long you can go before you are bankrupt. A 25 drop in 50 drop in and of the conversation about taking it all the way back up to 75 and it went to 93. Spending time t talking about te potential impact. We started early. We shut down all the Capital Projects and began to wait for the coming storm we didnt know what level it would take but we survived by getting a little bit ahead of it. We worked hard to get theai act passed and then it was termed as a y bailout to the auto industr. Look at the facts the Airline Industry had never been in a better financial position than 2020. We delivered our projection everyone doubted by the way and we are getting ready to project the next three years. We got hit by something completely out of our control so we werego able to work with the government to get enough money to keep our peopl working. Why is thatrn important . You need business and commerce to return and you have to have people flying and you w cant do that without an airline. You dont just bring them back a week or a month. Pilots need to constantly fly to be certified. So youou have to spend time certifying and the safety aspects of that theres a host of things if you shut down the industry and want to return quickly it is counter opposed to each other. I think the ability to keep everyone working has began to slowly recover. Not only has it helped the industry but i think it helped the economy of the United States began to regain. I always talk about the Small Business folks in america even during covid and if you ask anybody that owns a Small Business, you know, you know, you just corporations have a lot of wherewithal and can kind of go work from home and do all those Different Things but the people who really drive the economy, these are the Small Business owners that muzzle every day, they cant afford to stay home, they have to visit their customers, they have to make their product and those centere people that need sort f the ability to get there in a world of transportation. All of those arguments were made time and time again and thankfully the administration was willing to pass and and obviously Congress Pass all of that for us. In the book you talk a lot about different stakeholders, the passengers, they are your employers, the shareholders of the company. If you had to pick just one and am going to make you pick one, which one takes priority and why. Be because we could not have done anything without their complete support and buyin. And today if you were to ask me the same question, i would answer the same way. The people that deliver the service, t a deindustrialized workplace. Its literally and individual he or she is wanting to do the right things for the right reason for the customers and you have to really you didnt force them to do that. You cant demand that they do that. Theres something call i discretionary effort that we all have, how hard we work and how big our effort is, if you get peoples heart and mind behind it you can do that. To this day, dont lose your people. United lost its people, look how difficult it was to climb out of that. If you lose your people it may not work to get them out again. Thanks, oscar, thank you for taking the time to have this conversation. Everyo go read turnaround and i want thank you for writing the book and sitting with me today. Thank you, appreciate the time. 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