Oscar thank you so much for being here and im excited to talk about your book with you right now but i guess well start off with what i write this book and why publish it now . Thanks for having me. I have always on the parts of my journey ive always wanted to write a book and what changed is i think covid, there was aloud, little bit of downtime certainly and we had the recovery but also allow for flexion about things that happened in america. We had lot of social issues going on at the same time. It was a good time to reflect on all of these things. I began to work on a couple of chapters random by a couple of noted authors particularly the one that is in my forward to see what sounded like and i got his support so i kept going. The Publishing House of function of time and space and it takes a long time to do these things. Also its getting in at a good time. My book as you know is about the Airline Industry in particular and theres a broader message that i hope people will get out of it. The message is civility, discourse, facts and leadership lessons throughout a long with a little bit of my heritage and upbringing. Its been a wonderful journey and im gladad its over and im always glad to talk about so thank you for having me. Definitely and again thank you for being here. In the introduction you gave youve touched on the lot of the topics im hoping to talk about today so looking for to this conversation but before getting to the book and some of the specific one to ask you about the recent news that d. O. T. Recently announced a new notice of proposed rulemaking that requires airlines to compensate passengers for delays or cancellations there are in the airlines control. I just kinde. Of wanted to go right there. What do you think about that as a former airline ceo . Im in d. C. Today and ive known that its been out there for some time. The first thing i would say its a custom for people listen as customers. We get it. We get the pain with the people feel when theres ay. Delay and while the Airline Industry professionals have lots of things that we are constantly working on returning safe and certainly on time there are broader issuesth at play that ae not necessarily under our control. You can pretty much rest assured theres not an airline out there thats looking to have delays that last to be sitting on the tarmac to be causing you pain. Theres no benefit and thereser no reward other than a sharp stick in your eye kind of thing andis we feel the same thing. I think the issue is a broader one and ive spoken lot about this over the course of my tenure as a leader and i still talk about it today. I think we need to modernize some of the infrastructure that runs the airspace and air Traffic Control system. Air Traffic Control we have in america is in my opinion outdated and possibly obsolete. Still safe but you have to slow everything down in the air to make sure it remains safe which is the right thing to do. There many countries outside of the u. S. That modernize the system and its one that needs to be done here in america. It is not easy to do and its difficult and requires multiple of administrations from the federal level to support it or to be privatized but its a key factor in our broader infrastructure in america in addition to the land infrastructure. That something you mentioned the book and you talk about on your first day of ceo you walk into United Headquarters and theres a major i. T. Meltdown at headquarters. These i. T. Issues you talk about modernizing infrastructure that sort of thing has been going on for long time. Why do you think this continues to be a problem and howly does that get addressed . From the Airline Perspective you mentioned a great point. Don my first day our cio are nw customer officer and she has merge wonderfully. We started the migration way back then. Its timeconsuming and it costs money and it requires aan lot of focused effort. That journey had to begin early. I think the recent issues that you see particular over the holidays was simply no was a lack of investment in infrastructure. Its hard and its costly and it takes money and back to the air Traffic Control aspect its not going to be done enough for youd period. Going to take twice or three times in a book wired best and brightest of what america has offered in the sores developing and privatizing might work. Again its all about effort and all about focus and all about funding and everything you do. As Airline Professionals and im speaking for the industry i can tell you by and large everybody makes every effort and theres lot of money being to make all of these advancements possible. They call them investments in the right investments need to be done for the industry. Turning a little bit more to the book and the interdiction introduction you talk about hearing passengers complained that they have a negative view of air travel as you were doing the tour throughout united networks. Why do you think people have still i would say even coming of the pandemic and negative view of air traveldr to generally and how can that be addressed . Perceval is a person to provide that service its incumbent upon us to make it better regardless. The customer is right many times. Not all the facts are ours there so i think they are missing something thats important. What are of the things we have will that united wasnt understanding to assure the purpose and aa shared vision across the corporations of why we did what we did. First we by aircraft and we get people there but its deeper than that. Its more about understanding a Single Person in each single seat is traveling somewhere thats really important to them. These are union folks in salted the earth work really long and hard hours to bring you the service. If you commoditize and if you put too manyra parameters and rules and it becomes just a job. Its the friendly skies and its important when you fly youfe fel that and when you put too much structure and structure and rules it becomes another thing. Make sure you were employing engaging the process taking care of all the services you provide. It doesnt always work in their many thingss that happened that are added to control. I could go down a long list of things from air Traffic Control toic the weather and mother nate is not an art. So there many issues that are importantt and you have a lot of professionals to make that happen. For me the initial wave of input was knowing some of that but also hearing it directly an important part of leadership or you have someone ask questions and listen to them intently and then lead after you listen and learn to solve the things that are important. We learned that united was while our schedule and are aircraft and all those things are bit of an issue by and large the most pointed thing was we have lost the trust of our own employees who didnt want to do the things we wanted them to do. Sticking on this network for a minute you said perception is everything. The average traveler probably has the perception of the cd of an airline is being possibly out of touch with many of the people who fly every day. Ive always wanted to ask an airline ceo this so thank you for bearing with me. Did you fly economy mostly . I think its a combination of. Depends on where you youre going. With the time had lot of these 50 seater aircraft that did not have a firstclass and a lot of the time especially late or early in the morning i sat in the front. It was a combination of both. Traveling around his hard and travel is difficult but when you live in the business and you see the people there providing the service is so wonderful. I would frankly set mostly in i o aa so i could get up and talk to customers so i could roam around the plane. It was important for me not only to fly and talk to folks but to do it without a large group of people with me. When you get to the airport at the terminal and every seat its fascinating to see the rest areas and where people 1800and where people sleep and resand thats when you get to people at their most human level. For me its important to have that. How i travel and how i i got the wass mildly important but more important is the level of agency you have. When you have a 24 7 operation you are talking to the maintenance folks. I think the combination, your question was semi with the people by flying economy . Not all the time. Was i a voice for the people and listening to them in the level of engagement that i did in the workplace at their hour of work . I would definitely say i was very much focused on that piece. Thank you. You also say in this book at one point the flying experience is not differentiated enough across airlines. How does that get addressed and what does differentiation look like an industry exactly it is so hard to do that. Its a human elementnt for sure. We have lost all of that. The friendly skies have become anything but and we needed to recover first anything could havee a lot of success getting our people behind us and on that platform being able to do a lot of strategic things. Your point and differentiation to think what you were saying at united anyway and im very proud ofof the legacy and the work thats being done, we are differentiating ourselves on sustainability. Not in a political way but on a level of economics thatke make sense to the business and doing the right things for the planet alongside of that. We differentiate the places that we fly. United more than any other airline in the worldop open up o some of the interesting gray areas at a time when americans want to travel. Thet, Economic Impact people stl want to travel a lot of places and we take advantage of that and then of course you differentiate yourself by your individually and how you are treated by another human when you travel. Thats the most difficult part because theres no way to oversee that to directly gauge how friendly you were or werent. That comes from engaging from the heart and the mind of your employees that are with you and they understand whats important to be friendly with customers and to provide good service. Its all of those factors plus. A brandnew aircraft with great new things all of those things can be met but what cant be met necessarily are the elements that have helped united regained its status as one of the top airline to theth world. Lets talk about that more actually wrote in the book that you did to whats right and whats wrong and whats good and whatsno not good as you were starting your tenure as ceo the first thing you put at the top of that was uniteds people. Fromtl my perspective as an Airlines Reporter honestly that come up as a cliche airlines love to tout their people but what does set United People apart and when you came and there very low morale among a te employees so how were you able to see through that low morell and to what kind of under the surface work did you do . To put my comments as you noted in context if i could i talk about my first travel put them traveling and no one knows that im about to become the ceo and will be announced the following day traveling incognito and of course i have a salacious flight with a small 50 seater United Express and not united. Ve we had issues, mechanical. Itss a litany of things going wrong that day. The way i describe it is over the course of my sitting there im riding all these things down. Y why cant we communicate to our customers and im riding down all the stuff as a whats wrong call. Throughout all of that what i observed in a small plane was one human, a woman the Flight Attendant watching her smooth, calm and a level of humanity and kindness so everyone with connections in place even if she didnt have the answers and thats what prompted me to say is the factat that indeed its t everything that went wrong but what is right and that was the first thing i put in riding. That to the impetus to your question to say okay i just saw, i had 50,000 more people like her every day doing that sort of thing iou think a lot of things would be more positive. So as i asked her couple of questions she didnt know who i was. She was very nice to answer everything she knew of the things she didnt and i began to get the inkling that it would be important for me to go out and listen to all of those people like her and thats what prompted me to go out there and also what gave me a lot of insight in what became a Real Initiative was to regain the trust ofmp their employees firs. That makes sense but i want to go back to another part of the question which was the low morell. How did you see through the low morell and what were the steps you took to induce that morale . Ive background and ive learned over my experience and part of my hair to just a latino family is everything. It really envelops her broader emotional connection so ive always been lucky enough for my former peers whom ive been taught the genuine need for connection withh other people. Theres some things you cant get over zoomca or a camera or a pulpit while you are making speeches to large audiences and that is the human w connection. Will somebody hold your hand of the longer looks in the eye with a sense of potentially not being dramatic little despair and when i made my travels around the hub i could feel a little bit of that emotion. A slightly longer handshake a little tugging on the coat and that was my sense that something, this is a time with people were taking pictures and everybody was smiling but at the same time i could sense something. Thats when i knew there was something going on in my first big news article was the journal when they asked the question in your short time would be seeing . I said our Employee Base is disillusioned, disengage and disenfranchised and im if there is to say as a former board member we didnt see that. I was very focused entrance. And what i was seeing. Thats what i saw. Andti the rest of it takes time. My first instinct was to go and listen and learn from all of them and bring them in as part of the solution. Tell me what you think needs to be fixed in the course i got thousandsel and thousands of levels of input for so many people over the course of my travel which can get a little confusing. So what culminated that initiative has them traveling back t to chicago and i have so much data and information and resources and a turn around situation. What you start with first is really key to potential success of a turn around because there are many thingsny to fix. So i had many thingsan to fix ad i learned a bit more in my travels. S. Accomplished a couple o things but i engaged with a lot of humans in the conversation where they felt or were beginning to feel part of the solution or at least being included inwh what might be done. Always clear to them to say not everything youre telling mee ae we going to do. Nevertheless everything will be put into an offer. That was the bright strategic idea from a real practical perspective i was getting inundated with information and data and i was beginningbe to worrynd hey you promised everyoe you come back back from this trip and have the thing you suggest and i was worried. From denver to chicago that trip i went up to say hellor to her and asked my question. I was asking things like hey has it going or said anything you can share with me . They were deeply analytical questions and again similar to the feeling and sense that i had earlier with put the holding of a handshake longer etc. She seemed quite emotional at her face was looking to burst with something but also at the sameme time was in a place where its like im not going to waste my time. I forget how many fields performing the last decade sega mentioned person who works every day who has all these different leaders coming and going, i dont want to my time with this. I gently touched her arm and i said im sitting up here if you want anything and she pulled her hand back in a very emotional tearful way. Im just tired of always having to say im sorry. And for me if i can reflect on this quickly was a magic moment in a moment. Imagine going to work every day for many years always havingay o apologize hey im sorry the coffee is not hot im sorry you were late and you have zero to do with any of those policies visions. Its howwe we got folks disillusioned in disengage and disenfranchised. Over time you grow weary of that and i was beginning to have a sense that i think the first thing is to regain the trust of our employees. I would have the socializes with the world knowing there would be tons of incoming fire. For doing stuff for your plates and what about your customers and what about your investors and your constituents i had to do a lot of socializing in order to do that but things would get. In the way. Its actually, didnt want to without turning to that because you dedicate a lot of time in the book to talking about your health and i wanted to give you a minute to talk about that. What is your message especially on heart health . Its simple. Its the largest, the single largest killer in america by far, by far. More than half the deaths in america, cancer and all those diseases unfortunately Heart Disease is the first. Why . The symptoms of a heart attack are many and varied. Its not an oh my god its a big warning if you hold your chest are there so many different symptoms heading north herself of the heart and he there so many different symptoms than b you dont always know if your symptoms are serious if you just feel a little off for a little or the lot of us, men in particular sit down, way down, jump in the shower. Unfortunately the blockage of blood to your extremities and your vital organs that is often a bad decision. So if you lay down you may not wake up. Thats the message. The psa and i got this from from a real close friend of mine who is aar cardiologist one day said if you ever feel call 911. The worst you can be as little embarrassed that you had indigestion or something which made sense to a degree so i offered that advice. Secondly what he added was perfectly suited to my survival and he said when you call 911 and tell them where you are which it makes sense. He added a very dramatic piece. Immediately tell them we are because you may not make it past that point. I remember whereon he was and i remember thinking thats a little dramatic. Fastforward a couple of years i turned vegan and a good weekend athlete. I hear my phone buzzed across the room and the to get it to feel my legs and i crumbled to my knees. My immediate thought was that conversation but that feels word so i called the landline and if you remember what that is my call 911 and i said im on the 50th floor of the chicago highrise. My gps or cell phone might have taken a littleo too long so i called back to the front door and i let the mts and end within 37 minutes i was on lifesupport with an artificial heart and lung machine. If i had an extra five or 20 minutes, i dont know but im thankful that i was able to get into that situation as quickly as they could. He wrote in the book in those early hours you need to keep it under wraps fromom the public ad most of the people at united. What did everything everyone think that was going on that day 20 lot of them he missed a lot of important meetings. On an amusing sidebar story goes from my doctors and nurses when they receive me and i dont remember muchme of it i was relatively coherent or providing informationnu about numbers and information for people to contact but i kept muttering they told me something under my breath or that something was i dont have time for this come i dont have time for this. I had a big daschle the Union Leaders are coming in and i was interviewing candidates. Ive been on the road listening. It was a busy time and because of medical privacy i went to the hospital under an assumed name and i hid it from the media because the media was everywhere. It was leaked in the course of the day and the rumors began to fly and our corporate folks were not aware of what was happening because my family was still incoming. So there were lot of moving partsov to that. Talk a lot about that in the book and the drama that surrounded that first day because i disappeared. What happens when your ceo just doesnt show up so there were scrambling. E they learnedt more about my situation and did all the right things a to announce the interim that was required to you also talk in the book about your relationship with one of the Flight Attendants fernando who you met in the hospital. Can you talk a little bit more about what that relationship meant to you . A broader message to everyone we all know someone thats inflicted with disease or an illness and they may be at home in so many of us are so wellintentioned. I should ride him or send something to mary or her family and then you say oh we dont want to bother them and all that. If somebody means something to you, send them a note. He it could be a text, it can be a scribble. He and someone afflicted in seeing those long lonely depressing nights in the hospital every word, every message, every small gift however itt was received was incredibly, incredibly supportive of my M Mental Health and a creasing we buy physical health. , im sorry forgotten part of the question. I was asking about your relationship with fernando the Flight Attendant you met at the hospital. To that and as i was getting slightly better and had stabilized and was in the hospital and i learned i would require a transplant and i was fighting that of course not realizing i had to do that. I had a couple of visitors that had transplants they came in to say hello. I remember one person in particular who came in and he said you looked happy and fit. Again that the transplant will do thator for me lets do that, that visible connection with somebody whos been through ital was important like bonding. Youre going to take my heart out and put another one in . Thats not good necessarily so in the world of paying it forward i learned over the course of my State Hospital there was another individual in an earlier stage of Heart Disease that had a massive heart attack with similar conditions that would be waiting for a transplant as well. Who just happened to be a Flight Attendant at united who happened to be a latino and when somebody came in and they didnt want to bother me. Hey theres another person as soon as i heard he was a United Family member i said come on, lets go. Two latinos facing the same issues if you will coming together in a hospital room with all the emotion and drama. I said will spend five minutes. This aint going to take five n. Minutes. This will be them a and sure enough as it is i walked in fernando was there with his close friend and his partner and the emotions erupted from seeing each others think it helped him. Theres a set into that. He never got his heart and he waded in waded and my story is so incredibly blessed and the fact that i wait only for a couple of weeks and to find out about the heart on my actual birthday. Blessings and the fortune that i have and its why i wrote the book. Part of it is to get the attitude out that i feel every day. He wrote in the book that not just fernando and not your immediate core executives put the team in general was as responsible as anyone else for your recovery as he said in the book. Can you talk more about the role that the entire united team and the entire company played in your recovery . I mentioned it briefly but that all the outpouring of the cards and that just confirmed what i had learned on my listening tour that the people of united were like family and had begun to embrace me. Not as an outsider but as someone they could trust and the wandering nomads that we were. So i think their level of engagement not just because the many other occurrences through the course of i do not take care of you and they do not serve the mealsta and im not taking caref your bags. They are and they do it in a wonderful level of compassion and pride and for me to say that in the book a lot is probably like a long love letter to united employees for my hope is that people read it to understand the people that do that work every day in such difficult aspects. I talk a lot about t it. They are supposed to be there on time and many dont know when they are going home because they dont know the situation is going to be in their being so focused oned getting you where u longto be that the work hours. I cant tell their family that theyll be home at a certain time. The employee, i say at the end ofof the book if i came to chane united but in the end united and its people changed me and i really appreciate all that they doan in the way that they do it. Sticking on the question of your recovery why do you think United People are so invested in you not just as their boss but as a person to give you that arent pouring of support. Not everyone would do that for the ceo of the company. Why do you think you have that from them . I would attribute it to my listening tour. It started with the letter that was sent out to employees. The first letter that was drafted with my approval and review wasas a corporate tablet. Didnt say anything in the understanding a little bit like being on the poor. Knowing wewe had lots of turmoil and a merger that wasnt going well in many leaders over the last decade if somebody else was coming it had a sound different. Again i wrote what i thought was a much more personal note giving them insight as to who i am and what id be doing not edit gee i hope to hear from you. I wrote it in a way that connected with the love people and people begin to say not only does it the last name and sound different than everyone else but it also sounds and will wait to see if he asked differently. I think part of that initially was that and something i call proof. The letter was wonderful and i connected with people but i promise to let things. What are you going to do and when you going to do it so me going on the road and talking with people at a oneonone basis you dont have factory floors to the other place where you see more than the few people at any one time. Theres everyone constantly working and if you are taking a break so making that connection over the course of my early time there to really engage and really listen that word traveled fast and i think it resonated with many people and i was looking to do something differently. Mind you there was a lot of push back and i describe a couple more dramatic and emotional moments where im sitting there in front of 200 maintenance folks in the hangar andth they e angry. They dont have a contract and havent had a contract or the for while. We have split decisions with on the way united did it. Their job every day is measurable and filled with all sorts of acrimony and discussed and no compensation by the industry. So understandably upset and being able to stand there and listen and to get them to provide with actionable you can yell at the community and you can tell me to fire for one. None of that is rational even for something tangible. So there were lot of those conversations that ive impressed me the and the fact that i got sick 37 days and my job when i have that heart attack, the combination of those in the outreacher of everyone talking about that level of engagement probably had lots to do with it. Youni had i would say turbult five years at united. Dawall you were book ended by your heart attack and covid and there was the incident in the middle. It was hardly smooth sailing over the course of your tenure as ceo. How did you stay on track for all those peoples . The Airline Industry is turbulent by its very nature. You had covid, 93 of our revenue disappeared in a couple of weeks. It doesnt get more turbulent than that for business. For all of us and not just specific to me we have the vision we have appealed to that the level of engagement in connection with our people and you learn by mistakes sometimes. And one of my bigger stakes from a communication aspect. Its never too late to do the rightug thing so you have crisis of your own doing and crises that areng not your doing. You take care of your folks as well as you can in the lobby. The lobby in d. C. To maintain an airline working so you stay focused and above all a great group of leadership that supports you and is knowledgeablee in focused and yu have a working group of people that say hey i trust these leaders are going to take care of things and that to regaining the trust of our employees at the start was such an important platform in everything we did. I can guarantee you that it would not be in th situation that it is today thriving and growing and looking to the future. It would have been a much w more difficult route during covid had they not trusted in their vision. We had to make tough decisions and count off them count on them. Sankey said earlier one of the ways united sets you apart from its competitors is its sustainability and you wrote inr the book you see corporations as having responsibility to the persistently and ethically address large global issues. I wanted to ask you about that. Why do you see sustainable as United States issue to address and what are some of the other things that united and other airlines and other Large Companies are in a position to do . So first and foremost we become a divided world where everything is uber either left or right are politically motivated or personal agenda. We burned as an Industry Worldwide up of 2,100,000,000,000 gallons of jet fuel. Should we not have the level of responsibility and awareness on the impact of that on this planet is not insignificant . Can debate Climate Change and everyone has their viewpoints. If indeed you believe that this level of carbon emission has an impact actually can you do something about it and of course you can do something to the reao question is will you do something about it . Again given the nature of our business and the level of Carbon Emissions we do with it a matter of time before something will break in our system. We should think of what the future might be. Sustainable Aviation Fuel is a great example for couple of reasons. Its better for the planet but the way we began the night began to grow worse our leaders aro the world than the Airline Industry is the economic aspects of not talking about social issues are political issues but the fact that fuel on the airline is one of the biggest of labor and more importantly its volatile. And guess where equity is doing over that course . Fuel spikes up and Airline Industry stocks go down. While it makes our industrial notta as uninvestable budgets you can run a perfectly great and Wonderful Airline to put your stock goes down with everyone else. Not only is it good for the planet. Consistent nonvolatile with regard to y what your biggest ct but think of the value on your equity if investors did not to worry about stock prices and that begin to resonate as a business discussion and an economic one rather than a social one. And the world of Market Forces which ares, very efficient if indeed the Airline Industry as a wholee the supplyside will happen. Interestingly the economy startup if you have a manmade problem they can be fixed by man as well. Somebody has the push for it. Can you do something you will you do something about it . About the issue that we took on early on. I would puts United Airlines is not just the best airline but we could be one of the Top Companies in the world through sequestration investment in Sustainable Future of fuel and the investments they are making. Its business oriented. You cant be principled and profitable at the same time. You mo wrote more broadly in the book about the need for more general Sustainable Travel revolution. What does that mean beyond just sustainable Aviation Fuel . I think of uniteds partner who has been investing in the german rahway service where they does it look like united and what does the Sustainable Travel revolution acrosstheboard look like . I think integration and business horizontally and vertically for to something thats been done for ages. A couple of things specific to highspeed rail it is yet another one of those political funding issues that people dont travel on trains in the u. S. Its very accepted in europe but we havent gotten there. The amount of cost that is going to be required to do that so i dont know that i would support a move into another industry. We have plenty to do inside the airlineai and they think the fos for the Airline Industry is to move towards more sustainable electric planes, electric cars electric vertical takeoff and landing. Archer is a big company that im associated with and their supersonic and supersonics are coming back, more customer friendly more sustainable and comfortable approach. I think united continues to delve into investing in the Sustainable World of fuel along with i think the level of information and entertainment that you have on board will happen in food and coffee will continue to be refined. We keep pushing the antelope on that as well. I know that something that united is criticized for. People say they are catering has a way to go to catch up. What are the barriers . Its logistics. Its so many Different Things. We had our own kitchens and probably the only u. S. Airline for her while to do that. I was very proud of that in the work we did, we united employees put this together for you. A lot of different issues. We have had to begin to outsource some of that celatavud is economics and Business Dynamics majestically its very difficult. I think youve seen the apps rollout and why you can choose a broad array for meals you are working in a very confined space at 35,000 feet so all of those things dont make for a place to serve really good food. In addition to the type of food the onboard experience and youvef seen us build out our club. Oliver clubs at airports are updated. The food is improve their and we spend a lot of money doing that. People can enjoy themselves and relax and maybe get a meal before they get on the aircraft. There many ways to skin a cat. People are trying and things are different and just, its a constrained space but the journey continues. You talked earlier about connecting with people during your tour and you came from similar backgrounds with your employees they were meeting in the network. Can you talk about how your upbringing and personal background position you to leave the airline at the time you w we there but i know you come from a Strong Union Family and because and many of the people who work for you are so was different to see someone like you at the top. Its a special moment honestly because again people are not minority cohorts. Its hard for people to understand whatns it means for a person of your same heritage to see another person of your heritage in a position of authority and leadership. Its heartwarming and itsf tearjerking the level of response i i would get because f what you just said. There was a shared heritage there. Note many people get a chance o see someone that looks like them and speaks like themem and to understand the culture so we use the term in spanish which is i think people are generally warmed that someone like me could be in the role that i have. That i think clearly helped and again throughout the book you see the sprinkles and the importance of my heritage and my upbringing on a lot of the decisions that ive had to make in the listening and learning and connecting with people and they speak about my paternal grandmother who i a lot of my life traveling through mexico with and her work ethic and our ability to go from home to home and to meet with people who were distant family and the word familia has a different resident resonance. It means a lot of powerful things in the u. S. As well but theres something about that thats warm and accepting and embracing of different views. That helped me. She worked until she was 86 and she ended up at the Flamingo Hotel in las vegas as a maid and in retirement she was named to the hall of fame of employees. The plaque still exists and when i get a chance to go by very see that. That kind of example in my concept of proof enough d promid mike grandmother hard work never complaining and all of that upbringing is part of my heritage. Parted mine and other family members as well and that helped as i entered a very fractured again disengaged organization. I think in me they found someone that was willing to listen and genuinely desired my input. Great, thank you. Turning to covid for a second he you said before that united ultimately realized that 93 drop in o demand. How did the airlines or any airlines survive and come to recover . It was a mad scramble. Its pretty fair to say that we united were the first ones to really recognize it. I was on the cover of the New York Times shortly after meeting at the white house with President Trump and Vice President pence where my arms are literally like this and im telling a story of the scene completely devoid of anybody traveling or booking a ticket. It was ako weekend when south hd an outbreak is willis north italy. Italy is a lot closer to the u. S. And you couldnt help but think, we didnt know if theha disease was weather was airborne or foodborne or whatever. So we began to quickly assess what it might be so the financial aspect like hey what if weve seen models before with 9 11 in a situation where there was a complete shutdown of air travel. That only lasted few months. I had no idea what level it would go so we began to do that. And how do you survive . You do the math how long you can you go before you are bankrupt . It all the way up to 75. And as we said, it went to 93 and all of us me spending time with the ceos here in the United States talking about the potential impact that that could be. We started early. We went to the debt market very we started early. We went to the market very quickly. We shut down all of our capitol projects. We began to tighten everything and wait for the upcoming storm. We did not know what level it would take. We survive by getting a little bit ahead of it but so did the others quickly following. And then we worked hard here in d. C. To get the carrots act passed. A lot of people even then it would determine as a bailout similar to the auto industry. If you look at the facts the Airline Industry had never been in a better financial position then early in 2020. At united we had just delivered our three year projection but everyone doubted by the way. We delivered a year inet advanc. We are getting ready to begin to project the next three years. We, were at a better place to e got hit by something thats completely out of our control the level of impact we discussed. We were able to condense and work with thent government to gt us enough money to keep our people working. Whys that important . We want the economy toyo return you to business and commerce to return in order to have business and commerce shift at people like you cannot do that without an airline. We as an airline shut down and furlough our people you just dont bring them back in a week or a month. Pilots need to constantly fly to be certified. So if you send them home he spent a lot of time certifying them theres all kinds of safety aspects as a host of things if you shut down the industry you want to return the economy quickly those things will counter opposed to eachth other. And so we made that effective conversation and negotiation painfully did receive painfully to this day the constraints on the Airline Industry. The compensation of executives and think you can do from a financial art restricted it was not a handout it was not a bailout but i think to your answer the ability to keep everyone working as demand began to slowly recover not only did help the industry but i think it help the economy begin to regain. I talk about the Small Business folks in america. Even during covid and if ask anyone who owns a Small Business corporations have on wherewithal and can work from home into those Different Things but the people that really drive our economy b and these of the Small Business owners that hustle every day. They cannot afford to stay home theyey have to visit their customers but have to make their product. Those are the people who need the ability to get the the world transportation. All those arguments were made time and time again thankfully the administration was willing to pass on obviously Congress Passed all that for us. In the book you talk a lot about different stakeholders theret are the passengers, the employees, the shareholder for the company. If you had to pick just one and i am going to make you pick one, which of thehe stakeholders take priority and why . Again the history of the united turnaround was taken a a priority for our employees. We could not have done anything we have done without their complete support and buyin. And today if you would ask me the same question i think i was still answer the same way. The people who deliver the service it is a decentralized workplace. Its literally an individual he or she has to be wanting to do the right thing for the right reasons for our customers. You cannot force them to do that. You cannot demand that they do that. Theres something i call discretionaryy effort that we al have and how hard we work, how big our effort is. If you get peoples heart and mind behind it you can do that. So to the state my admonition to everyone in the industry is a dont lose your People United lost their people look how difficult that was to climb out of that if you lose your people again but may not necessarily work to get them out of there. Thanks for it again oscar, thank you so mh for taking the time to have this conversation. Everyone ago read turnaround time. Theres so many questions i did not get to ask you. I wish we had more time i just want to thank you for writing the book and for sitting down with me too answer these questions be. Thank you, appreciate the time. If you are enjoying a book tv sunup for our newsletter is in the qr code on the screen to receive the schedule for upcoming programs, author discussions, book festivals and more. Book tv every sunday on cspan2 or any time online at booktv. Org. Television for serious readers. Weekends on cspan2 are an intellectual feast. 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