Helped shape this country. Just go to our website cspan. Org books that shaped america. Click the view input tab and select record video. In 30 seconds or ls tell us your pick and why. Be sure to watch books that shaped america live review monday at 9 p. M. Eastern on cspan. I am Kevin Butterfield the correct of the john w. Kluge center at the library of congress. Its my great pleasure to introduce todays speakers. The clubbyy senate by the way is one of the sponsors of this years festival. We are proud to help bring americas most beloved writers here to join us. The clubby center works to bring scholars to work in the collections of the library of congress for up to a year to study intensively and extensively, and to produce great works of the sort you get to hear about at the National Book festival. Welcome to everyone whos joining us live on cspan today. Were proud to partner with cspan again this year for todayss event. Our next Program Features r. K. Russell in conversation with roswell encina. Ross made history in 2019 by becoming the first out active nfl player to identify as bisexual. His new book is titled the yards between us a memoir of life, love, and football. Roswell encina is the chief Communications Officer at the library of congress. Please join me in welcoming them. Th [applause] thank you. I finished your book this week and it is such a beautiful man memoir. It is a love letter to the relationships in your life, your mother, i think especially the men in your life. Her stepfather, your biological father, your stepfather, your biological father, and all of your teammates. How did your relationships with these men impact you . Rk my identity here on this earth, it is very much a culmination of all of these people, my stepfather for example, i lost about a young age but his messages rang true to me today, the character of a man is not how big you are or how strong you are, or how intimidating you are, of your work is that it is your work out your character, being dependable and accountable. My childhood friend who i consider a brother now, he has tommy resilience and he has survived a been survived being abandoned. He has tommy me about morality and seeking out to be a change in people, to be a light and something that people can lean on, by biological father was not in my life, example of things may be not to do, the false steps we can all take as youve met and the heartache and the importance of healing from that, so you do not continue those cycles. All of these men, teammates as well have taught me about the things that it truly means to be a man and those things have nothing to do with sexuality or how much money you make or how big you are being a Football Player and being you talk about. Struggles you had when you were a young man. How did you get through that . Who did you lean on to make sure you could get through it . R. K. my mother, first and foremost, it is funny because i do talk a lot about the men in my life but. The one constant is my mother. She is my best friend. There are no limits of what you can do as a person in this world, she had me at a young age, my mother got pregnant and 19 and had me at 20, as a single, black mother in america. She heard about all of the things she could not do, the statistics we fell into and she exceeded all of them. She was never too woman for something, she got her masters while raising me, it was always my life to even when i was drafted, the first thing i did was move my mother in with me, she would be the foundation, she would be that rock for me. The most about being a man also from a woman, and i think that is pivotal because also as men we exist with the multiplicity of people, women and nondairy people and we need to understand how we fit into these molds, break these molds, and how to uplift each other. Roswell you mentioned that esports has given me a lifeline, do you mind if i read . A part from your book . Football was how i found space and peace in high school, how i obtained a scholarship to a top university, attracted most of my love interests, football and so i made friendships that became brotherhoods and when no one else wanted me, football was home. R. K. there is so much of my identity from football, a lot of it to my benefit, some to my detriment, growing up in texas, it is a pivotal part of culture there. I was in his family, faith, and football. My family did not look like other peoples, i did not attend church regularly like others did, football was something that proceeded all of those things when they saw me in something that, as the outside world forgets about you, i was beginning to do the same, ive tried to tell Young Athletes at all people in general that of course it is ok to sacrifice to achieve your dreams and succeed in the profession and interests and the creative hobbies or activities that you love but it was it is never ok to sacrifice yourself. That is the line but your walking with football, it has become so obsessive in your life, as much as i love football, with mentors and the male figures and coaches and family and purpose and education, i let it take things from me. My love for self, my individuality, capability to challenge the things i was told about being a man or being a black man in america, i let it encompass all of me. It is ok for it to be a huge part but football is not all that i am and it took me a long time to unlearn that. Roswell he received a scholarship for do, you in their football team, if you do not know what redshirts are, could you explain what they are and what did it teach you . What life lessons did it teach you . R. K. it is when you commit to a college or go to a college to play on their team but for whatever reason you have to sit out, for me it was because i was undersized, i was tall and athletic and i was small to be a defensive end. It is a coach telling me that i needed to go work out and eat and get bigger if i wanted to play in the league. Which i agreed, i did do there are benefits, you get to learn the game and get around the College Athletes and teammates and the in those practices going against big ten starters, all american, things of that major. Nature. You get to prepare and compete and you still get four years to play after that which is amazing. It also comes with hardships, i moved from texas to west lafayette, indiana to play football and for a year i was told to be in the building but not on the field and that is not good for your confidence. You know the sacrifices are made to be there and it comes with its own unique challenges. Roswell my favorite part of the book is when your mother surprised you for your birthday, you drove around and landed at where the cowboys played, it was your first nfl game. R. K. the Dallas Cowboys versus the Philadelphia Eagles im not sure if they are cowboys fans or eagles fans it went fullcircle, a few years later you get a call from jerry jones when you are drafted to the nfl. Roswell what was going through your mind . R. K. they better call soon i was stressing [laughter] it is amazing, baffle soaker moment that full circle moment. A mother was with me on my journey, although i played football there was such a disconnect from me out of the nfl, these are people who are largerthanlife, playing on the tv screens and i assumed everything that they did was something that i could not achieve are not aspire, it was not in my realm of thinking, but going to see that game and seeing the huge men were still playing on the 100 garfield i was going on, the tame the same kind of field i was playing on, the same kind of ball i was playing with. I hear jerry jones with his thick country accent see my name, it is validating. I sacrificed so much to be a Football Player and achieved the dream by being drafted than most people never achieve in their life. That most people never achieve and their life. By then it is time to go to work, time to capitalize on all of the things you have done to this point. College was where i was starting to understand i was not straight, my sexuality whether it was gay or bisexual, i did not have a lot of information about my sexuality at the time, whatever it was, i was not straight and that was another thing i put under the box sacrifices. In getting drafted, invalidated that, im glad i did not have a boyfriend or become open about my sexuality because i made it to this point. What people do not realize is once roswell when people do not realize is there is a lot of work, aside from physically, mental work that needs to happen too because you never know if you are going to get resigned, if you are staying with the team, if you get injured. How is it going from the cowboys to the buccaneers . R. K. at first it was devastating, the cowboys were my hometown team, they drafted me, there is pride you want to fulfill that. We all want to be like jason witten and play there forever and retire there. He ended up going somewhere else you want to be that figure to be on your team, you want to exceed those expectations and getting cut from the Dallas Cowboys was my moment of physically basically, i messed up. I went to try out for the jazz, the patriots, and each trial i thought a bit of myself being chipped away, to go to tampa bay and have in my opinion the least best workout, to be in humidity and drenched in sweat, they say we will give you a chance, it was a glimmer of hope i needed to get into second gear, i also remember that there is no more funny business to my life, im not hanging out with friends as much, im not going to be the Hometown Hero anymore, im not going to date, im going to focus on football. Life is a funny way of saying as soon as you should all of these doors, they will show you the broader picture. What happened to me. Roswell when you were in tampa, something really big happened in football, this is one cap her neck kneeled during the national anthem, the nation notice what was happening with the nfl. Tell me what was happening behind the scene, how are players deciding if they needed to kneel . It seemed like an easy decision to do it, but what were the factors of being weighed on . R. K. in the nfl people have a perception of what it is, but honestly, we really do talk football or talk sports in general most of the time, guys share that they have more moments but we are there, some of us are almost there 12 hours a days prickly for football, we went into a discussion any such a large scale something so much more. In such a large scale on something so much more. There was executive and coaches who do not understand, the first time that owners of the buccaneers came to speak with all of the teams, to come up with what i or they believed to be solutions or to address the problems but also to figure out how we could get all of the players to stand for the anthem and support the game of football in what was presented. It was a bit of a massive, i have to be honest. Roswell you struggled a bit too . R. K. it means so much to so many people, the anthem. Police brutality and social injustice were things that affected everyone that i know, it affects all of us whether we are people of color or not. I have family in the military, my brother is in the army, my dad was in the air force, i was in the navy and my grandfather was in the air force, there are so many things that represent so many people in the anthem. I think it was an opportunity for the nfl to jump in on the discussion and i do not think at that time they did that. Roswell let us talk about that, they jumped in and made some changes, what do you think of them . Do you think it is enough . I know there is a major culture change in the league, is the lead on the right path when it comes to this . R. K. they are on a good path, i think as we navigate there is always missteps or better paths to make. You have younger people who are watching football, how do we get the message to them . In a way that is both digestible but also meaningful . Doing things like putting end racism in the end zone is something that a lot of the audience think are cute but what are we actually doing . Funding changes, funding women owned businesses, blackowned witnesses, social initiatives, trying to be more reactive, proactive instead of reactive. They are making an effort, i think the nfl has a huge organization, there will always be more but they are open to that discussion and listening to people who come to the table and challenge them in what they do and what they think. In what to do and what you think. Host we will get more to the nfl later on. Another subject matter. As you all heard this years National Book festival thing is a story and history as a a trailblazing story that e believe Everybody Needs to hear. The library of Congress Love to say books broadens our world but also needs to be a mere to everyones world so to get to see other people stories and this is where your story comes in very importantly. You in your book mentioned about how you struggled with your sexuality and your happiness. Versus your career. Thats football and the league and let me read this and then we will get up. You said the questions in my head grew louder. Selfdoubt about my sexuality and my identity overflowed into worries about the future. There was a bitter irony and how i was thinking away from a dream even as my hard work had brought it within reach. The nfl wanted me but only because they didnt know the real me. That must have been something really hard to wrestle with. You worked hard your entire life for this moment and then what do i do kind of thing . Guest football is one of those things, those unique things that though it is a job at that levelel it is one of few jobs where it calls your manliness or your character like you youou are as a person. Thats something we focus a lot on in nfl players can of what that dialogue is but we dont understand that stem from childhood when you pick up a football at a very young age people tell you what type of person you needd to be to play this game. Some of it is correct like to kind need to be a little crazy to go anda hit of the people at full speed and get up and do it over and over again, but theres rhetoric, specifically misogynistic rhetoric of dont throw like a girl. There which is of course important but not kind of blocking all emotions. Get up and read some dirt on it workson in effect to some affect but it does that work for all of your life obstacles. When you focus on the type of people that can play football you are releasing what type of people cant play football. I grew up with that as all of this, now most of the players in the league did as well. When i didnt realize i didnt fit that type from a very young age wasye a Football Player, strong, masculine, straight, hardnosed, nonemotional person, i thought am i not a Football Player . Do duane not belong here . H h host that was a hardest part i think winners reading your book as you stroll along with both depression and maybe binge drinking. How are you today . Guest not drinking, thank god. [applause] thank you, yeah. Im four years sober september. [applause] host we wish you well. This month is the fouryear anniversary when you wrote the essay that was published on espn. I will be a quick excerpt and then talk about that. You wrote, i want to live my dream of playing the game. I worked myrk whole life to play and being open about the person ive always been. Those two back objectives shouldnt be in conflict but judging from the fact there isnt ae single openly lgbtq player in nfl, nba, Major League Baseball or the nhl brings me pause. I want to change that. For me, for other athletes who share these common goals and for the generations of lgbtq athletes who will come next. When you were in college i believe, michael came out and most recently carl came out. He currently is probably the only nfl player who is a free agent who is out. Let me ask you this. What do you think it will take for more professional male athletes to come out . I know its going to be a major culture change. Should start with whether it is a league or teammates for the owners or the sponsors . Its a major undertaking and i know you have taken us to task for what do t you think needs to change from one place to feel comfortablemo coming out . Guest it has to come kind of from both sides i think. Weve heard a little bit more about how the league feels about its own conclusion diversity, players players have come forward to talk about just accepting a player force the met of their game and the heart and hard work. I think all that is great. I dont think weve had that same message from ownership outside of like robert kraft. I dont think weve had that same messaging when it comes to marketing and promotion when you show and see on tv or in commercials or in the stadiums of what type of people are allowed to be fans let alone be allowed to be players. Its making sure you ingrain inclusion into the base of your foundation, into the base of your organization to hire lgbtq people even if e theyre not out players, as coaches, as executives, as administration. All of these things, as referees. Again needs to be more inclusive or people need to feel comfortable. You cannot ask atne one what wil make them feel comfortable if you dont have people around them who dont understand the experience. You are treating the woundte instead of actually the problem and the cause of it. I truly believe that the most shameful come with the youth. Like i was seeing a lot of that is in culture we here at a young age. A lot of that is been losing lgbtq athletes going up because he dont feel included in sports and the dont feel supported in sport and i think once we fix that problem, thats going to affect more people. More people are going to play at the Public School level, the city league level, even at the collegiate level then in the professional level. Host so you think its a chart from the very beginning like when kids are playing touch football or in Little League ace ballgames and start the culture change there . Guest thats important. Michael is not have every professional player for every lgbtq but have the players get into sport young, stay in sport and going to professional League Already out, already being their true self, beingng valued for te upfront come face value by taintedin meat allowed to play e game that the love as themselves. Host i read a little bit of your essay. When you publish that integer interview on espn, how did you feel . That must have been a huge weight off your shoulders . Guest i describe it i think my book is coming up for air for the first time and not realize ive been driving my whole life. There are things i have done to this day i am so proud of, this book being one of them, one of the top being drafted, going to college in graduating, he but come out is probably my number one because it wasnt about football. It wasnt about other people what they thoughtht of me. It wasnt at that time to make a statement even. It was for me. It was me choosing my own life, me choosing to live whatever i had, whatever timee i had on ths earth for me and to prioritize myself first and its something everyone should do for themselves, something that i think that sentiment that everyone should have at some point in their lives because at the end of the day this life is ours and regardless of the things we like to do with activities or the o sports we play, we have to live with ourselves. [applause] host since 2019 youve seen a lot of fans, a lot of people reading your book. What kind of reaction are you getting . Either fellow athlete or just people on the street. Guest any reaction ive gotten most has been positive which am very thankful for. But honestly, its the broad sweeping kind of if i had to pick a similar sentiment and all interactions it have is thank u for telling the story, thank you for having this discussion in the field especially like male sports that has not and it is still shying away from the subject, regardless of whether we like to admit it or not we all of somebody that is lgbtq peer were probably all related to some of the lgbtq . If you dont have that connection or no one comes to mind, then that means someone in your life is suffering, someone in your life is shrouded in shame and secret, and if either too afraid i dont feel safe enough for our just for multiplicity of reasons not living a full and loving life as they should be and that is what this book is about. That is the message im trying to purvey, that we need to love people where they are at, about people to be themselves, that we need to not judge people before we know them. I think a lot of the times we talk about things that they are just topics as if they are just things on ice sheet to check yes or no when these are really connected to treat peoples lives, when these are really point people are agonizing that day in and day out. Host i do want to say you post the book by talking about your new opponent which is hate. Let me read this quick excerpt. I am no longer strapping on helmet and shoulder pads every day to clash with other individuals. Today my opponent is hate, the idea of hate, how we teach it to younger generations, how we fund it with our dollars and the systems that uphold it. He is a true opponent of all of us, the idea that someone of a different color gender religion or sexual is lesser than anyone else. Thats the opponent. I dont have to tell you, theres a lot of that going on whether the book banning to Everything Else around the country. How do you want to play a part in fighting that . Guest anyway i can. Honestly, i think we all have a different piece to play in this battle against hate. We all at some point felt like we are told we couldnt do something or we could be something or that something in our lives was incorrect just base off who we are, where we were born, how we were born, what we look like. I dont think thats fair. I dont think we should limit human beings, but i think that are beyond our control. My color, for example, being one of them. The imports also of intersectionality of being both a person of color in a by such a person is that i see the way that this idea forms different rhetoric around the multiplicity of topics. That is why i will stand with who feels as if theyre being oppressed, being the race, silence, pushed down into the foreground because that has happened to me in so many ways. And if i allow cap and youve been so what i am loving it to happen to me. Im allowing it to happen to others. I am okay with that idea and i think that is what we need to all give the same page about. We appointed discuss things, have different points of view, thats the beauty of being human death into the day when someone tells you they are hurting or someone tells you there and attack, if they feel unsafe or theyns feel like they are not meant to be here by an outside force, that is when you need to listen. That is when the discussion needs to stop in the listening needs to start. We need to hear what people are truly feeling unhappy can help them. Host we will be taken questions shortly. There are two neck microphones on themi i also feel free to lie and i will point to you when you have a question. Lets talk about, out. Were talking about how hard it is for men or professional male athletes to come out but it doesnt seem the same on the female side. I believe in the world cup right now there were about 86 women who are out, im up all the players around the country. Why do you think it is more easier for womenor to come out . Guest multiple reasons. I also believe that me personally i believe women are constantly at the foreground of change in our country. I think women are constantly challenging the status quo. [applause] women lead our society in many ways. Asn a woman, unfortunately being here in the state you were told from birth the things you cant do and i think women have built up the resilience to automatically say no. You dont define me. That attributes to womens sports. Also more in the problematic sector of things, that sports, i talked about the misogyny a sports and that these young women that are in sports have been told that in some way they are less women for being in sport. I think then once you take off that as negative as it is you take off the shackles of then what their sexual identity, this person is allowed to be themselves in the league. I think women leaks are also built by women. Thats one of the legal representative of the women, we talk about the wnba being in the forefront of not just lgbt close and diverse conclusion but in social change and using the voice and tougher because that is the late run by women. Host we were talking earlier when young girls are playing, its kind of like the culture to make things hopefully easier for them. We have our first question. Yes. Very proud to hear your story and see that you are true to yourself. I was curious, what was the reactions of your teammates andd management after you came out . Guest my teammates, whether it be from high school or college or professional, were very supportive of me. Anyone that knew me personally mostly have very nice things to say. If anyone outside of the state or even other players in the league felt negatively or indifferent about it, they didnt tell me, which i appreciate. But no, iov received so much loe and acceptance and support. Thats great. Thank you. Guest thank you. Congratulations on your book. Im interested in the process. Did you just say im going to write it . Did you do a little every day . Did you do, just the whole process tractor this book was hobbled with the culmination of almost three years. Itit started with come out in 29 sharing my story and feeling how not only it affected other people but how liberating it was for me and wanting to do that at large. The process was something thatsi was also kind of handheld through, fortunately. I had an agent very early on to read the essay, but my writing and wanted to expand that, and to make this dream come true. I wrote in flurries through three years there were two months my boyfriend can attest there were two months when i didnt do anything and it was like a month where i was just in a dark room writing typing forever. Writing was challenging, therapeutic. I cried. I screamed. I hated it. I loved it. It was everything i say to this including playing in th national Football League writing this book was hardest thing i ever did and my life but also one of the most fulfilling and i have a great team, great editors. Forgot to ask this earlier, is it how it had saved you as well, you have wrote poetry, how did writing help you internalize and really help you maybe actlike therapy for you . R. K. we talk about social issues here in the constructs, even the norm, the societal agreements we all adhere to whether we know it or not just by being complicit in this world and in certain things but there is none of that in things that there is none of that. Writing and judgment free zone, no i could be somebody else i want to spirit something so far removed from my own experience around it and division want to cultivate in my life and sought out right back to grab a pen and paper and create my own image of i am the life you want to live and things like this honored and part of an Amazing Program of others who have challenged the status quo andir with their own stories and shed light on things i as a person is space was unaware of and the truest form of communication and connection for me and something i value so much. I saw your book is how the process is going for you and involved in the handson writing made for a larger audience. I very much support that, everyone feels the way that in terms of book, ive been on herself to be in this development and writing and telling stories and trying to bring this book to as many as i can to tell other stories about the economy so hopefully i am ready. An we make the company and for that to last and have a good time talking about this is easier. No one wants to sit down and watch an hour long lecture i am honored to tell the story. I would love to hear more about being connected with the happenings in 2019. The different one was no longer serving i could have been healing and i sought out alcohol instead so i might not have had an addictive personality or alcoholism, i knew had a negative relationship and it never made anything in my life better. My partner also is over, ten years sober as well so lived the life of sobriety in connection entertainment and dining was huge in my own journey. Congratulations again on your book. Im wondering whether you move from one professional team to anotherr team and in between. You feel you are discriminated against because of your sexuality being able to be with those teams, there would not be an indication you might. I can say im not sure about that experience, i would doubt that there were a multitude of reasons it just made sense to me. I will say after coming out, i did not receive any more calls. I can also say the evidence theres only one right now is evidence maybe not of discrimination but not enough had feeling comfortable and included. The choice i make in my life not to chase conspiracy or wonder the things i should have, could have should have personally i believe i am now. En how they identify and judged purely of their ability and that is their goal today. It felt like the individuals afraid to say they were gay living on to masculinity even if that is the case for someone, i understand that as well, it is scary in the world a lot of the times we do what we can to survive or be accepted for me, it was lack of representation and story over the information that made my journey a little more challenging. Unfortunately, about relationships to learn about myself and last week to present back like a shouldnt probably have done that. I think it was drawn out and a lot of the time i would have feelings with both genders and i just didnt see my sexuality as that. I said this is who i am, i do know anyone else bisexual at the time. After all, there so many floor bisexual and white we are hearing those voices, why are we seeing those people in the forefront . So thank you for sharing that. Thank you for creating a resource. My question has to do more specifically with what would you say to an american male boy who likes football for sports felt like i dont think im straight but lived in an environment where there is hate, bullying, which is say to give them hope . Any lgbt two plus person my priority there are places for being yourself for a direct conflict to your safety so i would say to prioritize over all things, not the perception that be yourself and everything will be great, there are a lot of challenges. Ch the people myself or in their own committee doing the work to make sure they are safe and protected, i would hopefully show a resource they might nothi have been they can access and talk about because every situation is different but i will let them know there are people just like you that you, being who you are is what makes you special and its whether you are ashamed for a belief or not and regardless where you are now, you can find the community and love and joy and happiness, you dont need to change the world, just work on the. [applause] question. R one more you just answered my question. I am a marching band mom and i want to say thank you because youre the first Football Player to have everything i needed to hear. [laughter] [applause] one question from you. Wrote to say thank you for sharing your experience, is truly important in my question with intersection with other words, what do you think the nfl can do better, where do you think the nfl can improve and do you think there is intersection to between athletes we can learn from . Every Major Sports League has a lesson to learn. Looking at mlb and nba, they have cushioned our players, intentionally building out lgbtq plus diversity or inclusion and divisions mechanical can be done and listening to players and being the floor running onha th. The list really goes on and the possibilities are really endless people in the room making decisions are of the communities they are making decisions about. I cant. [laughter] as a transient bisexual boy, ive been having trouble with my identity so what would you say about finding yourself . I would say honestly its a journey, even at the age of 31 i do not know everything about myself but and hopefully everyone around you will give you the opportunity to learn to discover, identify and re identify and figure it out and challenge her own concepts around you of who you should be or who you are as time goes on, he will feel more yourself and find people that are for you and love you and accept you as you are and that its okay challenge the world around you. The world around you is not perfect. Its okay to challenge ideas and i love you and i appreciate you being here. [applause] that is such a perfect way to end this discussion. [applause] on behalf of the library of congress, thank you for coming to the national but book festival, we hope to see you the rest of the day. 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