Thank you for being here, i accepted about the book with you right now. I guess well start off, why like this book and why publish it now . Thanks for having me over the course of my life i said i would never write a book. I think what changed his covid, was a lot downtime go thrgh the care second recovery but also reflection about the things happening in america the issues going on so she could constitute reflection two chapters each noted authors seek whats sounded like an going publishing now takes a long time to do these things puzzle also not a good time because the book is about the only industry and a broader message i hope to come back. Civil discourse, facts and leadership lessons along with my heritage and upbringing and never have before so a wonderful journey and im glad its over thank you for having me. Thank you for being here and in the introduction you gave you hit on a lot of topics i hope to talk to you about today looking for this conversation today. Ge before we get into the specifics, i went to ask you about recent news, ut recently announced a new notice of proposed rulemaking that would require airlines and passengers for placing cancellations but its so recent i want to go right there, what do you think about that as a former airline ceo . Of known its been out there for some time so the first thing is is a customer we get it, we get the pain people feel and while we have lots of things we are constantly working on to make your journey not only safe but not bad, there robert issues at play is there always are that are not necessarily under our control so you can pretty much rest assured is not an airline have delays last to sit on the tarmac to cause you p pain, theres no benefit or reward other than a sharp stick in your i so we feel the same thing. I think the issue is broader and have spoken this over the years and ii still talk about it tod, i think we need to modernize infrastructure that runs the airspace and air Traffic Control system. The air Traffic Control we have in america is in my opinion, possibly obsolete, its still safe but you have to slow everything down in the air to make sure it is safe which is the right thing to do. I think our many countries outside the u. S. That modernize systems and its one that i think needs to be done here in america. Its not easy to do, probably requires multiple administrations from a federal level to support it or somebody needs to be privatized but it is a key factor in addition to land infrastructure and roads and bridges. That something you mentioned in the book and you talk about on your first day as ceo, you walk into the headquarters and reports of the airline so these issues you talked about, modernizing infrastructure has been going on for a long time. Why do you think this continues to be a problem and how does this get addressed . You mentioned great points, the customer office, we noted migration way back then, its timeconsuming and cost money and requires a lot of focus and effort and it had to begin that early. I think the recent issues you see particularly over the holidays was a lack of investment in the infrastructure. Its costly, it takes money and is not going to be done in a fouryear period, its going to take likely three times and will require the best and brightest america has to offer in regards to the living that and privatized matter might work but its about effort, focus and fundingg and everything you do s Airline Professionals and speaking for the indusy if i could, i can tell you everybody makes every effort, theres a lot of money to make all of these advances, make all of these investments that need to be done for i the industry. So turning more to the book now and introduction you talked about hearing passengers complain they have a negative view of airoi travel, youre dog that to her, why do you think people of a negative view of air traffic generally and how can it be addressed . Perception is reality so as a person that provides that, its incumbent upon us to make it better regardless. The customer is right many parts of the time. Not all the facts are always there so i think our people are upset, they are missing was important. One of thehe big things we first rolled out, i liked the concept of understanding of shared purpose and vision across the corporation of why we did what we did. Of course we get people aid to be but its different than that. Its more understanding every deed is traveling for something really important to them and having front lines, these are working hard long hours and if you can monetize or put too many rules, it becomes just a job. It is it. Friendly skies and our tagline is important when you buy, you feel that and you put too much structure and rules, it becomes like anything so make sure your employees are really engaged in the process of taking care of the services we provide so it doesnt always work there, there are many things that are out of control so i could go down a long list of things, air Traffic Control, to whether, Mother Nature is not in our understanding, its not someone employed by us so there are many issues that have to be dealt with. You have pride professionals to make that happen so for me, the initial wave of input was knowing some of that but also here directly, an important part of leadership where you ask someone a question and listen to them t intentlyd and then leave after youve listened and learned the things most important. What we learn that united is while coffee and a schedule and all of those things were a bit of an issue, by and large have lost the trust of our own employees. I think its one of critical components. And taking on this for a second, you said perception is everything, the average traveler probably has a perception of the ceo a little out of touch with everything and always wanted to ask an airline ceo is so thank you for bearing with me, did you fly economy mostly . I think its a combination of that, it depends, we still have small 50 seat aircraft which do not have aircraft and late and Early Morning i would fly up from so it was a combination of those things. Traveling around is hard but when you live in the business, it is wonderful because i would sit in an aisle seat so i could get up and talk to Flight Attendants and customers and roam around the plane, safely when we aret doing that so it s important for me not only to fly and talk to folks but do it without a large group of people with me so when you go every corner of a great airport, its fascinating to see the rest areas, what people eat and where people sleep and rest and thats when you get people at their most midlevel and for me it was important to have that level of connection so how i travel and how i got there was more important when you rely on the engagement you have as you work in operation so talk to maintenance folks, they only come in at night and aircraft flies during the day mostly get modification over the evening so the conversation, and i with the people by flying our economy . Not all the time. In my listening to them at a level of engagement i did in the workplace . I would definitelyuc say i was n that more than anything. You also they the book the flying experience is not differentiated enough, how is that addressed . What does differentiated look like . So hard to do that and the Human Element for sure. We have lost all that so it has become anything but the thing we need to recover first was certainly got and we had a lot of success getting people behind us and being able to do a lot of teaching things on differentiation, i think what you see at united anyway, im out of the work being done, we are differentiating ourselves not in a political way but a level of Economic Business and by doing the right thing for the senate. We differentiate by the laces with fight and qc united more than any other airline opens up the world to interesting areas and any other time when americans do want to travel despite economicic impact and views and concerns, people still want to travel a lot of places and we are taking advantage of the and you differentiate yourself by how you are treated by another human when you travel with us and thus the most difficult part because theres no way to gauge how friendly you were or arent and that becomes the heart and mind of your employees and understand why its important to be great with customers and friendly and provide goo service so its all of those factors plus minute aircraft with great new things, all of those things can be. Thats a big differentiating place, regain its status. Lets talk a little bit more about that, he wrote that you did whats right and whats wrong or whats good and whats not good as you are starting your tenure as ceo in the first think about the top was United People. From myy perspective, that could come off as a little cliche, airlines love to tout their people but what does set people apart when you came in, theres low morale among employees so how are you able to see through that under the surface and what they could become . Typically comment context, i talk about my first, im traveling, no one knows when to become ceo of im traveling incognito and i am a little fallacious by a 50 seater, we are late, we have issues, a litany of things that are going wrong that day and the way i described it over the course of writing these things, i cant we communicate . Im writing all of this as a whats wrong but throughout all, what i observed in this small plane with one Human Element, the Flight Attendant, watching her calm provide a level of humidity and kindness which started with connection and delight even if she didnt have the answer and thats what prompted me to say the fact that its not whats wrong but whats right so that gave me input to say i saw and if i had 50000 more people like her everyday doing that sort of thing, i would think the perception would be more positive if i asked a couple questions she didnt know what it was, she was nice to answer what she knew and didnt and that sounded to be the inkling that would be important for mego to listen to all those people, all people like her and thats what counted me to go out there and also gave me a lot of the insight of what became a real first initiative, regain the trust of our employees first. Does make sense but i do want to go back to another part of the question, the morale you came into. How did you see through around and vote with the steps you took to boost that morale . I have a background i burned over my experience, my heritage as a latino but family is everything. Us it involves a broader emotional connection so ive always been luckyno enough, genuine need or connection with other people to listen and sense, some things you cant get over zoom or camera or speaking to large audiences and that Human Connection when somebody hold your hand a little longer and looks in youren eye with a litte disparate and when i made travels around, i could feel that emotion, are slightly longer and shake and i was my sense, this is what people take pictures but i could sense something and thats when i knew something was going on and my first big news article with a ask questions, what do you think . I said i find the fact that are based disengaged and disenfranchised and we didnt see that so i was very focused and transparent and thats what is so good it always takes time but my instinct was to listen and learn from all of this and bring them in and tell me what you think needs to be fixed if of course thousands of input over the course of my travel which gets confusing so what would culminate was traveling back chicago what you start with first is key to potential success i have many things to fix and learned even more in my travels that i accomplished a t couple of things. Not everything you tell me is what you are going to do but everything will be put into a hopper and we will bring something so that was idea inundated with data and i was beginning to worry about whether he would come back and i went to say hello and i asked things like how is it going . They werenton deep analytical question so similar to the sense i had ours traveling a handshake she seemed quite emotional, her face was looking to burst with something also like im not going to waste my breath. We had five or six, i forget how many in the last decade so you can imagine a person who works everyday, i want to waste my time with this so im sitting over here and she pulled her hand back in an emotional and tearful way, im just tired of having to say im sorry. For me as i reflected quickly, it was imagine moment in the sense imagine going to work everyday having to apologize, im sorry youre late, im sorry you cant do this and you have zero to door with that decision and how we got disillusioned. Over time they grow weary of that now is beginning to have a sense that i think the first thing is to regain the trust of our employees. I would have to socialize this with the world, tons of incoming fire, what about your customer, investors . Had to do a lot of socializing but things were get in the way. I didnt want to go too far without turning to the, a lot of time talking about her health and i want to give a minute to talk aboutut that. What is your message especially on heartea health . Is the single largest killer in america by far more than half the deaths in america, cancer and awful diseases, Heart Disease is. The symptoms of a heart attack or not a big one, there are just so many different ones of north or south and you can have too many different symptoms. You dont always know symptoms are serious because you feel off or weird and a lot of us will tend to down, lay down, jump in the shower or blow it off and the blockage tour extremities often is a bad decision so if you lay down you may not wake up from that so i think thats the message. The psa office from a close friend of mine, a a cardiologist who one day said you feel weird, the worst you can be as embarrassed which makes sense to degree and secondly suited to my survival, call 911 and says for you are. It makes sense but added a dramatic piece, tell them where you are because you may not make it past the phone call and i remember when i heard him say that, thats a little dramatic but fast forward a couple of years coming from around, i turned vegan in a not fully fit necessarily but i hear my phone buzz across the roomto and i fel my legs week crumbled to my knees and my thought was the comment, that feels weird so i crawled to the landline, some of you may remember for that is and call 911 and told what it was and the chicago highrise, ebs on my cell phone might have taken a little too long and go to the front door and within 37 minutes, like support, artificial heart and lung, i have an extra five or 20 minutes, i dont know but im thankful i was able to get into the situation as quickly as i could. You wrote in the book in the early hours needed to keep it under wraps from the public and most of thehe people at united, what did everyone think was going on that day . You miss a lot of important meetings. On a sidebar, the story goes from doctors and nurses, i dont remember much but i was providing information about numbers and information for people but i cant moderating the something was i i dont have time for this. I had Union Leaders coming in and have been on the road listening so it was a busy time and because of medical privacy, i was going to the hospital and media was everywhere, it was leaked over the day and rumors began to fly and i incorporate folks and they were not aware of what was happening because i was, by this time so theres a lot of moving parts so i talk about that in the book because i disappeared and what happens when they dont show up . Was a lot of scramble. The company got into a mode and learn more about my situation but it was a dramatic moment. You walked in the book about your relationship with a Flight Attendant, fernando who you met in the hospital, could you talk about what that meant to you . A broader message, we all know someone thats inflicted with disease or an illness, maybe at home and so many of us are well intentioned, i should send something to marymi or her familyly, dont do that. If somebody means something to you, send a note, someone will click the end it was a night in the house every word and letter received is incredibly supportive of my Mental Health so sorry, i forgot part of the question is asking about your relationship with the Flight Attendant you met in the hospital. I was getting slightly better and stabilized income on, and learned i would fire a transplant and was fighting not realizing i had to do that. I have a couple of visitors have transplant come in to say hello and i remember one person in particular who came in and looked happy and it, i hate you, i want to be like you but lets do that so really important to see so not good. I learned over the course of my stay at the hospital another individual in an earlier stage of Heart Disease that was going to have a heart attack in a similar condition would be waiting for transplant as well happen to be a Flight Attendant, a fellow latino and when somebody came in and they didnt want to botherd me, as soon as i heard the fact that itat was at United Family member like lets get over there. Latinos facing the same issues coming together in a hospital, the drama they said we will spend five minutes like this wont take five minutes, this will be a longer conversation and as soon as i walked in fernando washi there a close friend and his father and the emotion that erupted from seeing each other wasas amazing. The sad and to that is that he never got heart and he waited and waited which makes my story so incredibly blessed and the fact that i did we only a couple only to find out it was not on birthday. The blessings, i think part of it is i feel this every day. You wrote in the book that people, not just fernando or immediate or of executives for the team and general as responsible as anyone else for your recovery, can you talk more about the role the entire united team played in your recovery . I mentioned it briefly the outpouring, it confirmed what i learned, the people of united were like family and have become not as an outsider that someone they trust, wandering nomads we were in the desert so their level of engagement and support many otheris but occurrences, i do not take care of you, not taking care of your bag and they do it in private and its important to say that in the book a lot and is a long look better but my hope is people will read and understand what happens behind the scenes and understand the people do that work everyday and i talk a lot about employees who come to work, many of them dont know when they aree going home becae we dont know the situation and we are so focused on getting you where you need to be, people work long hours and they cant tell their family they will be home so employee, i say at the end of the book but at the end changed me, i appreciate how well they do it. The question of your recovery, why do you think United People are invested in you as a person . To give you the outpouring of support, not everyone would do that for the ceo of the company, why do you think you have that . I would attribute it to my listening to her. It started with the letter that was sent out when i was announced. The firsttt letter from my approval and review was corporate, it didnt say anything and understanding by being on the board but knowing the turmoil in the merger that wasnt going well, many leaders of the last decade somebody else knew it was coming, it had a profound difference so i wrote for who i am, not in my hope to hear but connected with a lot of people, not only does he have a last name that was different, they will see if he acts differently so part of that initially was that and then its something i call proof not promise but it was wonderful and connected withf people from promise a lot of things to what you do and when are you going to do it . Going on the road immediately talking with people, the most from level of our organization and one on one basis, we dont have fauci floors, is not a place where you see more than a few people, everyone is constantly working so if you were taking a break from making that connection in my early time to really engage, that word traveled fast and i think resonated with people who were looking to do something different. Theres a lot of pushback and describe the car for dramatic emotional moments in front of maintenance folks and they are angry, they havent had a contract for a while. Got a split decision the way united or continental did it so their job every day is miserable and filled with distress and no compensation for being able to stand there and listen and provide actionable items. Can tell me to fire everyone, none of that is rational. Give me something tangible, can i help move forward . A lot of those conversations and resonated in the fact that i got, 37 days until my job heart attack, i think a combination of those and outreach and everyone in engagement. I would say a turbulent five years, your book ended by your heart attack and an incident, hardly smooth sailing. How did you stay on track . The Airline Industry turbulent by nature, economic forces, covid. 93 off revenue disappeared within a couple weeks. All of us met lead, we do have a missionon and of you and his level of engagement in connection with our people and we learned by mistake sometimes, one of my big mistakes and it never too late to do the right thing y so you fight through yor doing covid is probably a good example, you take care and you lobby in and maintain airline working so you stay focused and above all, you haveal a great group of leadership that supports you and is knowledgeable and focused. You have a working group of people that say i trust these leadersng are going to take care of things. Back to regaining trust of employees, such an important thing we did, i can guarantee united not be in a situation it isri today thriving and growing and looking to the future, it would have been much more difficult ride during covid had they not trusted in their leadership because we had to make tough decisions and count on them to trust us to do the right thing. You said earlier one of the ways united will apart from competitors is the commitment to sustainability. You wrote that you see corporations us are having responsibility instantly anddr ethically address large global issues. I want to ask you about that, why do you see the inability as United States issued position to address and what are some things united other Large Companies are in a position to tackle . First and foremost, we become a divided world where everything is left or right granted politically motivated for personal agenda. Vern is an industry worldwide, close to 100 billion gallons. Should we not have a level of responsibility and awareness, the impacts of the on this planet is not insignificant. We can debate Climate Change and everyone has their viewpoints but if you believe this level of emission has an impact, can you do something about it . Of course can but the real question is, will you do something about it . Given the nature of our business and carbon emissions, its a matter of times before something will break in our system and we should plan ahead and think of what the future might be so Aviation Fuel is a great example. Yes, its better for the planet but the way we begin somehow polish our leaders around the world is the economic benefit so not talking about social or political issues but the fact that an airline one of the biggest, fuel goes up and goes down and complete inverse so airline talks go down. It makes our industry not investable, its not as investable because there is so muchch uncertainty. You can run the Wonderful Airline but it goes down with everyone else think of Sustainable Aviation as a consistent nonvolatile model withmo regards to the cost think of the value on your equity if investors didnt have to worry and that became resident in an economic one rather than social and a world of Market Forces which are very efficient if the airlinee industry creates a demand for Sustainable Aviation, the supply side will happen. The industry and economy and startups, its a manmade problem and can be by man as well. Somebody has to pushit for it, will you do something about it . That is an issue we took on the on my assessor is error i would put United Airlines is not just the best airline, i could be one of the Top Companies in the world leading ton sequestration, investment so an important part and helps us with the planet. You can be visible and profitable in time. Remote wrote more broadly about the need for general Sustainable Travel revolution, what does it mean beyond Sustainable Aviation . For example theres an investment in the german rail road service where they go through to getting on the itinerary. Doesnt look like Sustainable Travel across the board actually mean . Integration into a business, horizontally and vertically is something that has been done for ages. Specific to highspeed rail, its another to settle political funding issues that people dont travel on planes in the u. S. Weve not gotten there. The amount of press that will be required to do, i dont know that i would support a move into another industry on these issues, instead of the airline and i think the focus for the Airline Industry is to move toward more electric planes, flying cars, electric vertical takeoff and landing, archers of the company i am associated with. Supersonic is coming back and more customer friendly, safe and sustainable and countable so united needs to delve in a sustainable for the you will and do that along with the full things, i think the level of information and entertainment will happen. Food and coffee will continue, it not for perfect food everybody wants and we keep pushing the envelope on that as well. People say they are catering. So many Different Things. We had our own kitchen and part of the only u. S. Airlines to do that. I was very proud of the work, week, he does employees put this together for you but a lot of different issues six and we have had some of that. It is difficult. U and we are going to choose and youre working in confined space, 35000 feet so all of those things that make for good after so in addition to trying to improve the experience, you see us filled out and you have seen being updated. People can enjoy and ask and maybe get a meal before they get on the aircraft so there many ways to skin a kat. People are trying and the journey continues. You talked earlier about connecting with people with similar backgrounds coming out in the network, talk about how and i know you come from a Strong Union Family and you are latino and prework for you, it was different than someone like you. It is a special moment honestly and people are not minority. It is hard for people to understand what it meansns for a person, to see another person in a position of authority, it is heartwarming, tearjerking the level of response because of what you said. It just made it different, they nominate people who worked those jobs and it looks like them can speak to him and understand culture and i think people are just generally warmed so i think that really helped and throughout the qc sprinkle the importance of my heritage and upbringing, a lot of decisions i have to make, listening and learning is connecting to people and i speak about maternal grandfather, a good eight years of my life i reconnect with my mother and her work ethic, our ability to go home to home and meet with people and the work has a deeper residence and that means a lot of wonderful things but there is something about the latin view that isbr accepting o that helped me. He worked until 86 and ended up as a maid in las vegas and in retirement was named hall of fame and it still exists and i go by there and get to see that soxa that kind of example, my grandmother did not deliver hard work, caring forrs others never complaining. G. Great thank you. Turning to covid for second, you said before that united ultimately realized in 93 drop in demand. How did the airline or any rever . E survive and only come to guest it was a mad scramble. Im, its pretty fair to say we unite with the first ones to really recognize the potential impact. I was on the cover of the New York Times shortly after meeting at the white house with President Trump and Vice President pence where my arms are literally open like this one telling the a story of weve sen north italy completely devoid of anybody traveling or anybody booking ack ticket. It was w a weekend when south korea had an outbreak as well as north italy. Italy is a lot closer to the u. S. Than korea and j so that proximate nature couldnt help but think that if indeed, we did know what the disease was, but if indeed it ever bored or foodborne whatever, were going to hit the u. S. Quickly. We began to quickly assess what that impact might be so the financial outset of trend aspect, we see models before, 9 11 was a situation where completely shut down of air travel. That only lasted a few months. When no idea how long this would lascaux to idea what model it would go. We begin to do math. You asked how you survived if you do the math. How long can you go before your bankrupt . Sort great finance team did some work andop a 25 drop and 50 drop, and remember a conversation about taking it all the way up to 75 pick as he said went to 93. All of us, me, spinning time with the ceos here in the United States talking about potential impact that could be we started early. We went to the debt market very quickly that we set that all are capital projects. Weknyt begin to sort of tighten everything and wait for this storm that we did know what nature what level it would take. We survive by getting a little bit ahead of it but so did the others would quickly following. We worked hard in d. C. To get the cares act past and a lot of people stillrm even then would term as a bella similar to the auto industry. If you look at the facts, the Airline Industry had never been in a better financial position and early in 2020. United we just delivered, are projecting a point doubted, delivered a year in advance. Were getting ready to serve begin to project the next three years. We were in a better place but we got hit by something thats completely out of our control. Level impact we discussed so were able to convince and work with the government to give us enough money to keep our people working. Why . You want the economy and business return. In order toe visit them, ship o people flying and cant do without an airline. If we a shut down and furlough l our people which is to bring them back in a week or month. Pilots the to constant fly to be certified so if you send them home to spend time certified. All sorts of sase aspects of it, bagehot airport hostt of things they do shut down the industry and what return the economy quickly those things which is counter opposed to each other. So we made that effective sort of conversation in negotiation and painfully did receive, painfully because to this day the constraint on the Airline Industry, its compensation of executives, think you do from a financial perspective are all still continue be restricted. Its not hand out and not a bailout but i think to your answer, the ability to keep everyone working as the man began to slowlylp recover, that only didnt help the industry but i think it helped the economy of the United States begin to regain. I always talk about the Small Business folks in america. Even during covid and if you ask anybody who owns a Small Business, corporations have a lot ofit wherewithal and cancanf the work from home and do all those Different Things but the people that really drive our economy, these are the Small Business owners that hustle every day. They cant afford to stay at prepared to go visit their customers. They have to go make their product. Those of the people that need the ability to get there in the world of transportation. All of those arguments were made time and time again and thankfully the administration was willing to pass and obviously congress to pass all of that for us. Host in the book you talk a lot about different stakeholders. Theres the t passengers, the employees, shareholders for the company. If you had to pick just one and im going to make you pick one, which of they . Stakeholders taks priority and why . Guest well again the history of the united turner and was taking the priority for our employees because we could not have done anything we have done without their complete support and buyin. And today if you were asking the same question it think i would enter the same way. If thede people who deliver the service. Its a decentralized workplace. Its a literally an individual he or she has to be wanting to do the right thing for the right reasons for our customers and you have to really, you cant force them to do that. You cant demand that they do that. The something i call discretion effort that we all have, how hard we work, how bigger effot is. I you get the peoples hearts and minds behind you can do that. To this day my admission to everybody in the industry is built luger people. Admonition if you luger people again, it may not necessarily work to get them out of there again, out of those doldrums. Host thanks. Again oscar think a summit for tang the time to have this conversation. Everne, go read turnaround time. So my question i i didnt get asked. I wish we hadadt more time buti want to thank you for writing the book and for sitting down with me to answer these questions. Guest thank you. Appreciate the time period. If you are enjoying booktv then sign up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive the schedule of upcoming programs, author discussions, book festivals and more. Booktv every sunday on cspan2 or anytime online at booktv. Org, television for serious readers. Weekends on cspan2 on intellectual feast. Every saturday American History tv document americas stories, and on sundays booktv brings you the latest nonfiction books and authors. Funding for cspan2 come from these Television Companies and more including midco. Midco, along with these Television Companies, supports cspan2 as a public service. Now let me conclude my introductory time at the lectern by introducing you all to phil and his tunic interlocutors. Hes a senior fellow hit a guy prettily worked as a senior from at the r street