Transcripts For CSPAN2 Hawaiian 20240703

I want to take a moment of personal privilege. It is an article about hawaii and its history, some is good and some is not. The ninth district in virginia currently represent jennings was the only printing to vote so were kind of proud of that, its a little different than the rest of the state, sometimes good, sometimes bad but mostly good. Please take your seats. The subcommittee to order and i now recognize myself for five minutes for an Opening Statement. August 7 and eighth, a series of the out of maui and hawaii, including one that devastated the town of lahaina on the west coast of maui. When electric came in to dispute facts surrounding this event, one thing is important, its catastrophic to the state of hawaii and we must make every effort to be vigilant and prevent a similar disaster from striking again. Lahaina fire took at least 97 lives and burned thousands of acres cost billions and damage, destroyed landmarks. I am saddened to hear the stories of those who survived awaiting news of their loved ones who still remain unaccounted for. We are searching for housing and wrestling with how they will survive after fire consumed businesses and raised the tourism industry. Many continue to debate the circumstances contributed to the bars, its not too early to start examining what can be done better. For example, some wildfires multiplied over the years facility the spread. Experts who maintain when electric way too long to pursue important upgrades to modernize the electric grid. Others argued Maui Electric Company was particularly slow in placing outdated deteriorating holes supporting powerlines. There were decisionmakers are involved along the way and there is still much to sort out. The probe some of the concerns and in the attitude each requesting Additional Information and we thank our witnesses for responses to the request to look forward to responses today now like to take a moment to introduce our witnesses. We are joined today by president and chief executive officer of the hawaiian Electric Company to provide service for Hawaiian Electric corporations for 95 hawaiis residence did it in the summer. We will hear from mr. Mark, Energy Officer, office developing support and state Energy Policy goals and welcome junior, chairman of the commission and served as commissioners since 2019. The Commission Among other things really are Service Parameters and Public Utility Companies operating thursday. We will convene a second from our colleagues and her testimony. There are several investigations underway around the days which the fire spread and what has been done or not done in years prior. Congress has a responsibly to pursue the national Energy Policy which includes infrastructure prepared for events like wildfires and her again. Congress has a responsibly along with regulators and private sector partners. It is important we convene today ask the hard question. Given this infrastructure and its general jurisdiction over power utilities will focus on that aspect of the disaster, i hope weve learned it will inform efforts for the utility level to protect ratepayers and reduce the chances of losses of life and property for wildfires. That said, i will tell you we have another hearing going on downstairs so well see members moving in and out because members on the subcommittee. I think the witnesses for participating in this event and prevent similar disasters from unfolding in this manner going forward. I now recognize Ranking Member of the subcommittee for a five minute Opening Statement. Thank you, good morning, everyone. Seven weeks ago wildfires devastated the town of lahaina. This was a sudden horrific tragedy and on behalf of of the democratic side we send them to sincere condolences. One hundred people died and many more across their homes and businesses in the first on how quickly the fire spread in the chaos and confusion that resulted. Hawaiian neighbors and military service and coast guard, members raise to rescue people that day and work through, flames and pollution to save lives. They are heroes. More are on the ground dedicated recovery and relief. Understand that 27 partners including mimi, u. S. Army Small Business administration are helping the people get back on their feet. I appreciate the handson approach top of mind for congress at this moment of a threatened Government Shutdown must be to ensure recovery work continues uninterrupted for the people of maui. Hope we can learn more about the conditions that caused the fire and what else august can do for the island. There are things we do know, strong wind from nearby hurricane combined with Drought Conditions strength education led to advanced warnings. We know the fire started on the edge of town in lahaina on mauis west coast and grew out of control, ultimately devastated the town and claiming the lives of too many neighbors. Fire crews were dealing with another buyer miles away. We know people are still suffering from the losses of best friends and families, homes and firefighters are working to contain wildfires. What we do not know is what causes the fire and what more could have been done to prevent it from starting or spreading. Hawaii when electric this is a power line ignited an earlier fire in lahaina, the morning of august 8. The merry Fire Department said it extinguished the fire but then fire was reported again in the same location and it spread. National Weather Service began issuing alerts days before the fire began, important questions remain whether more could have been done to notify residents or deenergize powerlines sooner. There are critical questions about steps local officials spoken the five years wildfires maui in 2018. These are important questions already being investigated and while i strongly believe we have an important oversight role to play, i do think it would have been helpful to have the benefit of the on the ground finding from authorities for the attention of witnesses away from Recovery Efforts that appear before us. I appreciate your willingness to be here today and i hope we can learn more about this tragedy. They are delivered quickly and effectively. How electric and other infrastructures and rebuild in a more resilient way. Its only been seven weeks since the fire and emergency is not over. Investigators have time to do the work and present their findings. Until we get a clear picture, our primary focus must seem to be relief and Recovery Efforts for the people of maui and that includes keeping government open and ensuring federal resources are available. Thank you. Now recognize the chairwoman, chair of the full committee for her five minutes. We are examining tragic events that unfolded on the Hawaiian Island. August 7 and eighth, a series of fires broke out on the average including one that destroyed. Our deepest condolences of the people of maui as they face the daunting task of rebuilding their community, one loss of loved one, grapple with the memories of that terrifying day with the pain of seeing your home in your neighbors home destroyed within a matter of hours or minutes is gut wrenching. Ninetyseven lives lost to this disaster and we pray god provides strength and comfort to the loved ones. Many are missed. According to the university of hawaii disaster center, of his 2200 buildings were destroyed with about 86 of the buildings. We must do everything we can to minimize the chance such a destructive deadly disaster will occur again. Maui or anywhere else in the country. We failed to learn from this event, it very well could. Wildlife Management Organization reports each year the percentage of land burned by wildfire in maui is equal to or greater than any other in the nation and according to the author experts, the area burned across all four counties increased by three 100 in the last several decades. These are washingtonians are no stranger to disastrous consequences. Last month the rate and organ wildfire destroyed hundreds of homes and forced evacuations linked to two deaths. Hundreds are recovering from coping with the destruction. While its difficult to revisit occurred, we must examine any factors that could have caused or worsened the emergency and identify any necessary hazards allowed and pinpoint additional precautions that could have been taken. I understand debate about the factors beyond the cause spread continues but the Hawaiian Electric acknowledged Early Morning fire august 8 appears to have been caused by powerlines that fell high winds. What happened after that particularly concerning the fire lahaina and destroys lives, part of our job is to ensure every american has access to affordable and reliable energy, responsible including energy from safe and well maintained infrastructure. Theres a lot of emphasis on competing priorities when it comes to modernizing electric grid. We must make sure safety remains top already. A great not prepared for extreme weather or adequately maintain is not only unreliable but unacceptable safety hazard that could potentially cost billions and engager lives. We cannot prevent and control every hazard such as high winds that struck maui leading up to the fire. We must harness our great hazards and address wildfire such as vegetation, overgrowth and appropriate precautions for extreme weather. Traveling across the country to be here today in a difficult road ahead. I hope today we can learn how congress can be a Strong Partner for an address with safety investigations, we hope it provides clarity on how and why the disaster unfolded such as catastrophic and what steps can be taken. The Ranking Member of the full committee. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The wildfires in lahaina on august 8, i want to offer my deepest sympathy for the devastating energy. There are many Unanswered Questions about how the terrible tragedy happened, im not going to go through all the things mentioned in terms of what happened or what we know. I know First Responders try to contain able to evacuate tragically it is completely out of control. I want to say we cant underestimate the enormity of the disaster and destruction and the fact that so many died in so many are missing and they have not been identified and many residents are living in temporary shelters. Officials estimate over 2000 structures were damaged or destroyed it will be a long road to rebuild and Emergency Responders are working day and night to fight the ongoing fires on the island they many appear to have contributed to the catastrophic fires, extremely high winds pushing flames through dry education nestle device and prevent successful firefighting efforts. Evacuation due to downed trees and power lines on gridlock on the roads in and out of lahaina. Power outages for communication problem rated for the confusion. We do not know my emergency fire alarms were not activated to warn residents or what role the that ultimately destroyed lahaina. In terms of government response, the acting government state of emergency the day the fire started in two days later the governor requested the declaration which was granted by the Biden Administration and 48 hours fema was on the ground something search and rescue. Several investigations getting to the bottom of this disaster. And i look forward to hearing from our witnesses but i am concerned this hearing is shifting attention in resources away from ongoing relief effort on maui and the official investigations that are still in the early stages. Congress should focus on ensuring the federal government can continue providing relief to the people of maui. That means funding the government and funding Femas Disaster Relief Fund which the president has asked it to do. That is something specific that we and only we cant and should do without delay. The reckless government showdown over shutdown i i should say h we know is imminent with slow maoris ability to rebuild and recover. And after all this disaster is that over. Thousands are displaced and in desperate need of housing. Firefighters are still working and utility crews are working to restore power and repair damaged infrastructure. Im hopeful investigations will provide answers so we can learn from this tragedy to ensure this does not happen again. Right now we must do all we can to support the residence of mowrer recover and rebuild. Shutdown is not the answer. Its hard for us here in the midst of this potential shutdown to be talking about how much we can do because we dont know if government is going to be able to do anything it by tomorrow night or saturday the government to shut down. That is certainly not easy for us to say to you were going to help when we dont even know if the governor is going to be open. I guess my main thing and a know it sounds political but i cant help it because if the government shuts down its a serious question about what were actually going to do. But any case we appreciate everybody being here. We are determined to do whatever we can to help. So thank you, mr. Chairman. [inaudible] i i thank the gentleman. Gentleman jill spac. The chair would like to rise all members written Opening Statements will be made part of the record. Please provide those to the clerk probably. I didnt think our witnesses for being here today and taken the time to testify before the subcommittee. You will have an opportunity given Opening Statement followed by a round of questions from our members. Our witness today are miss shelee kimura, president and chief executive officer of Hawaiian Electric. Mr. Mark glick, chief manager of the Hawaii State Energy office, and mr. Leodoloff asuncion, chair of the hawaii Public Utilities commission. We appreciate you all being here and and i look forward to hearing from you. You are aware the subcommittee is holding oversight hearing and when doing so with the practice of taking testimony under oath. Do any of you have an objection to taking testimony under oath or give your testimony under oath . Seeing no objection, well proceed. I would advise you you can be provided counsel biggie if you desire to be advised by counsel during testimony today . Are right. I dont see any asking for that so if you all would please stand and raise your right hand. [witnesses were sworn in] seen the witnesses all answered in the affirmative, you are now sworn. You may sit them. You are now sworn in and subject to the penalty under u. S. Code. With that will not recognize ms. Kimura for fiveminute Opening Statement. Thank you chair griffith. Pusher mic. Working . Maybe you can pull it closer to you. Is that better . Is a little better. What do our technician say . Are we okay . I think were good. Go ahead. Okay. Aloha and good morning. On august 8 in lahaina maui we saw human loss and devastation at the speed and scale that is difficult for our hearts and minds to process. I want to start by honoring those lost, those whose lives have been forever changed by this overwhelming and tragic event. Most of you know the word aloha. There is another word in hawaiian language. Loosely translated, this word means responsibility. But like aloha, they cannot be simply defined. It is a deep sense of responsibility that is both an obligation and a privilege. Its a responsibility that has been entrusted to you by your family, by your community, by the generations that came before you, and those that will follow you. It is ones responsibility within a bigger system or community to which one belongs. Its a privilege to have it within this interdependent system, and to one another. For generations past, present, and future Hawaiian Electrics is to hawaii. We are committed to be there for maui and lahaina for as long as it takes to recover, to rebuild, and help ensure a tragedy like this never happens again. In that spirit i hope all of us can see as our shared responsibility to honor people of lane as we do this work as part of a collective community. I hope we can start to find solutions that will help protect hawaii and the rest of the nation from increasing threats, of Natural Disasters like hurricanes and those that we rarely experienced including drought that can fuel catastrophic wildfires on tropical islands. Hawaii is most isolated population on earth. This new electrical connection to the cottonelle use or even between islands. This is one of the reasons hawaii has a heist electric rates in the nation. On an island we have to be our own safety net. We cant call in a neighboring state if we run short. Our isolation is also one of the drivers for our efforts to become energy independent, to get off expensive, volatile, imported fossil fuels. Its that only about the environment but about our economy and Energy Security. As utilities go we are small, about 470,000 customers on five islands. 70,000 on maui. The department of defense is our largest customer. Hawaii is home to the u. S. Into pacific command, and we are the only utility in the nation serving all components of one combatant command. I i became president and ceo of Hawaiian Electric in january of 2022. Every day i feel a tremendous kuleana responsibility to our customers, communities and employees. Since august 8 ive spent much of my time on maui. Ive seen the devastation firsthand. Our team, including our maui employees who have been personally impacted by this tragedy, has been working tirelessly to support our communities. We all want to learn what happened on august 8 so that it never happens again. On that day a fire at 6 30 a. M. , what i would refer to as the morning fire, appears to been calls by Hawaiian Electric power lines that fell in high winds. The maui county Fire Department probably responded to this fire. They reported that by 9 a. M. It was contained. After monitoring it for several hours, the Fire Department determined the fire had been extinguished. They left the scene in the early afternoon here at about 3 p. M. , a time when all of Hawaiian Electrics power lines in west maui had been deenergize for more than x hours, a second fire, the afternoon fire, begin in the same area. The cause of that afternoon fire that spread to lahaina has not been determined. We are working tirelessly to figure out what happened and where cooperating fully with federal and state investigators who have indicated it may take 12 to 18 months to conclude. I look, i look forward to fulfilling our shared and respective kuleana to honor the people of maui as we seek solution to protect hawaii and the rest of the nation from other deadly disasters. Mahalo. Thank you. Now recognize mr. Glick for his fiveminute Opening Statement. Chairwoman mcmorris rodgers, chairman duncan, chairman griffith, Ranking Member pallone, Ranking Member castor, members of the committee. My name is mark glick and a cheap Energy Officer of Hawaii State Energy office. As the m a response to the Committee Split up august 30 by office appreciates at the thorough exploration of the causes and effects of the tragic events, that occurred on august 8, 2023 and wish nations resolve to stand with the people of lahaina in their request to heal, grief and recover. I would like to highlight a few points for the committee. The driving forest for hawaiis aggressive pursuit of energy selfsufficiency is due to our deep concern over Oil Price Volatility which is extremely detrimental to our economy and our cost of living. Hawaiis oil has been and continues to be sourced primarily from africa, europe and asia and the running of oil price, prices to do russias invasion of ukraine had resulted in 40 higher diesel costs on the island of molokai in maui county which is only 18 of Renewable Energy. On the flipside the island of hawaii with 60 of energy only experience i increase increase in energy costs during the same time and has a lowest average electricity rates in the state. In other words, adopting renewables in hawaii is a a lowcost Energy Solution while achieving other policy objectives. Hawaiis new normal with wildfires long a real threat was first realized with hurricane lane in august of 2018 and the california wildfires. It step recognized hawaiis wet and dry periods are more pronounced and for the first time wildfire risk was rate equivalent to her again, tsunamis, floods and earthquake earthquakes. Since the deadly fire in lahaina the Energy Office has bridges been in discussions with the attorney general and of the parties and that investigations are ongoing with respect to Hawaiian Electrics actions. Therefore it would be inappropriate for the Energy Office to comment on those issues at this time. We take at all hazards approach to resilience and Service Emergency support function number 12 within femas the Natural Disaster recovery framework. Our Broader Mission is to mitigate and respond to threats of Energy Resilience focusing on Energy Security plans and response efforts. In that role we previously flagged invasive grasses and vegetation on the island about and elsewhere and hawaii as resilience threats. But i should make it clear the Energy Offices that have any authority for oversight and enforcement of utilities or the private sector on energy matters. We have seen the evidence oe star that indicate Renewable Energy development has restricted available funds for Vegetation Management. I key Energy Office resilience efforts was participation in july of 2019 to november 2021 in the Resilience Working Group established as part of a white electrics integrated grid planning process with oversight by the hawaii pvc. The working group considered hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes can wildfires and physical and Cyber Attacks as the greatest threats to grid resilience. And recommend a set of resilience measures including those addressing Vegetation Management. Among those recommendations are plans for enhanced Vegetation Management, take a critical grid areas, continued to harden and reinforce an upgrade structure can continue planning for expanding water resistant underground cables, stumps priority circuits with enhanced restoration capabilities and greater hardening. Consider adopting advanced technologies and more distributed resource approach including microgrids for emergency and backup operations, and develop wildfire mitigation strategies for a worstcase wildfire event. A location to 60 miles south of lahaina. The working group emphasized that infrastructure owners and operators must Work Together in close partnerships to coordinate disaster planning and recovery with the shared responsibilities between the Power Companies, key customers and the government. Final consolidated integrated grid plan was submitted to the hawaii pc by Hawaiian Electric on may 12 of this year and is currently under review by the hawaii pvc. The Energy Office of the completing the obama Energy System and Critical Infrastructure vulnerability and resilience assessment of fema funded effort. This assessment and estates Critical Infrastructure risk covers electricity, liquid and gas Energy Infrastructure. Once completed the Energy Office plans to follow up pending fema approval with a second phase of analysis for hawaii, maui and hawaii counties. In conclusion, its clear and multipronged approach to prevent, mitigate and respond to wildfire threats is necessary involving both shortterm and longterm actions. The solutions require a shared commitment of private and Public Sector will and resources to adequately safeguard our essential Energy Infrastructure. In response efforts related to the mouth and Hawaii County welfare tragedy, hawaii expresses its sincere gratitude to the federal assistance we received thus far and we humbly request your future support and assistance as we recover and rebuild. Im happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank the juuling. Now recognize mr. Asuncion for his fiveminute Opening Statement. Thank the gentleman. Members of the subcommittee, on behalf of the hawaii Public Utilities commission, i wish to express our appreciation for the sincere outpouring of support for our communities in wake of this tragedy. We appreciate this committees focus on this issue and the opportunity to speak to you as addressing the increasing number and magnitude of Natural Disasters requires unprecedented levels of collaborative action. We are still grappling with the devastation of this tragedy, and our hearts remain with all of the victims and their loved ones. These communities have been irreversibly impacted and we intend to maintain our focus on supporting them as the months and years go by. In my statement, and you do have a copy of my written statement, the commission wishes to share with the subcommittee its perspective on the following three topics. First, the commissions role in jurisdiction to regulate hawaii electric utilities, particularly, particularly as it looks to Natural Disaster preparedness, safety, reliability and resilience. Second, the commissions priorities in responding to the august wildfires that include addressing immediate needs, preventing future catastrophic events, ensuring reliable, safe, clean and Affordable Energy services, and protecting ratepayers by utilizing investigative findings to guide potential restoration action. And third, the commissions activities to mitigate the risks of wildfires that may be caused by or, in fact, the electric grid. The commission and myself looks forward to answering any questions about these and other topics during this hearing as well as collaborating on an ongoing basis to ensure the events like the maui wildfires in other Natural Disasters never occur again. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank the gentleman for his Opening Statement and thank you all for your testimony. We will now move to the question and answer portion of the ring and i will begin the question and recognize myself for five minutes. So my Congressional District in southwest virginia is mountainous, rural, spread out and is actually my landmass larger than hawaii. So i can understand some of the problems and concerns that you all have. The picture i get is that there were lots of warning signs out there the wildfires were a prominent threat, particularly on that in the maui. So i guess, ms. Kimura come to you all gather information realtime on whether reports on planning related maintenance and Power Generation activities . Before storm like this, do you have plans in place to watch whats happening and whats going to occur next because we know the national Weather Service was telling folks a couple days in advance this is going to be a big one. Thank you for the question. So we do monitor. We were very aware of the red flag warning of the high winds. Forecasters were indicating that it would be 3545 mileperhour wind with gusts of 60 miles per hour. They later indicated as was happening that theyve been forecasted the parts of the state were experiencing much higher winds and gusts of about 80 miles per hour. When did you get that information . Where you are watching this yourselves . With somebody monitoring that on a minute by minute basis . Have our teams, not me personally, we have our teams that are getting the information from third parties. Its not our own team looking at it but theyre looking at third parties looking at that. Do you know when, when you learned that the winds were going to be higher than you originally anticipated . I dont have that information. Could you get that to the committee after the sink . Absolutely follow up with you. And use the reason i ask. We get snowstorms heres the reason i ask. We get snow storms. You dont have that. We get snow storms and we are watching the Longworth House Office building forecast. Before the first like drops if they see a significant Longworth House Office building, they shut the school down. My question, what was the decisionmaking process in not deenergizing or shutting the power off in this area that already because of the wooden bowls, already at risk, these were all risks that were known. What was the decisionmaking process not to deenergize or turn the power off during that critical period . In 2,019, our team, understanding what happened i appreciate the history. On that morning, what was your strategy and were there people who were awake all night monitoring the storm to see what we could do, what is going on . Tell us what was going on that morning and why you didnt deenergize earlier. Im trying to explain to you. Im trying to figure out what happened in august. Im trying to answer your question why we didnt deenergize, those decisions were made years before as part of a plan. As part of our protocol. Im trying to help you understand what our protocols are in that situation. In 2019, our team started developing a wildfire mitigation strategy, based on what they had learned of the plan in california, including the shut off program they determine that would be the tst s. Yes. That wasnt the appropriate fit for hawaii. Hawaii is very unique and through that process, the determination that was made, we had other protocols in place when theres high wind so when you are asking why didnt we shut off the power, that is not our protocol to do that. Stop right there. Going forward are you reexamining that . Are you looking at the Public Safety power shut off programs, are you looking at that now and reexamining protocols because they didnt work . We are absolutely reexamining our protocols. I want to make it absolutely clear that the afternoon fires, the cause of that fire has not yet been determined. I heard your testimony and i want to confirm, you never reenergized your powerlines once you shut them down. Is that correct . Thats right. A little bit before 7 00 a. M. Our lines were not reenergized. How long did it take for the energy to get out of those powerlines. I understand take some time once you push the button to turn it off, how long does it take where the lines are no longer dangerous to the public or firefighters et cetera . I dont know that exact answer. I apologize, my time is up so i have to yield to the subcommittee chair, have to follow the clock too. I know youll back to the Ranking Member for questions. Thank you. I want to focus on the conditions prior to the fire. I was in honolulu on august 8th at indo pacific plan, with Bipartisan Group headed to the pacific rim and it was extraordinarily windy and everyone was commenting on it and they didnt have an understanding you get of the extent of the devastation in lahaina yet but officials had been warning about the likelihood of high winds and wildfire risks for a couple days, the information we have is on august 6th the national Longworth House Office Building Service warned of fire conditions due to severe drought and strong winds, on august 7th the national Longworth House Office Building Service you should a red flag warning indicating severe fire risk so you said you were aware of these warnings from the national Longworth House Office Building Service, correct . Correct. I wanted, the protocol, what exactly were the protocols on the books that ensured when you received these warnings that action was going to be taken immediately . The protocols on the books, for many years was to disable the automatic setting on our system that automatically closes the circuit if theres a fault meaning if there is a fault indicated on the line that it wont reenergize. It wont reenergize. How quickly after you receive the warning did you act to do that . I dont know the exact time. I believe the warning subject to i believe the morning happened overnight and by morning those protocols were put into place but we can get that for you. Do you have the authority to deenergize in response to Longworth House Office Building Conditions . Can you repeat . Do you have the authority to proactively deenergize the line . Yes they do. Thanks. When did you first become aware one of the powerlines was down in lahaina . We had a number of powerlines coming down. Im trying to remember when the first one was done and i cant recall right now. Theres a lot happening from august 7th to august 8th. Do you know exactly when . Leodoloff ascuncion, when did you receive notice . I received notice of lines going down or basically in the afternoon on the eighth when we were informed that activated the incident management team. Last year, hi seo submitted a plan to spend 189 million on grid hardening to make its energy grid more resilient, last month doe announced 95,000,002 lahaina coming from the bipartisan infrastructure, can you explain, describe the grid hardening plan and what steps you had already taken to improve your lines prior to the fire and how you intend to use these . The federal investment we were informed of we dont yet have it, we are in discussions on when we will get that are how we will get that but that is going to help fund our transmission and Distribution Resilience Program and that is a Multiyear Program we have in front of the Public Utility Commission. We had files for approval for that program in june 2022, and that program was a result of years of work including a lot of work with stakeholders as well and that Program Includes addressing critical transmission, and distribution infrastructure. You had been working on this for a number of years, you werent waiting for these federal dollars hopefully. What work had been underway already to protect against wildfire risk . We had been starting work, we had been in process on doing work, our utility is always heartening, the proposal was to increase and further the work we are doing. Do you have the plan in writing on what had been proposed typically for maui and what work had been completed . We have the work in writing that had been proposed, we also have our wildfire mitigation plan and we began implementing that even before the approval. I think the committee would like to see those documents, the plan that was composed for years ahead of time and what work had been taken prior to that. We would be happy to provide that. Thank you for agreeing to provide that information. I recognize the chairman of the full committee for 5 minutes of questions. Mister glick, and your testimony you state your office actively develop policies to achieve Renewable Energy and Energy Resiliency with the legislature, Public Utility Commission, state agencies and other stakeholders and filings submitted to the hawaii public utility mission last year, Hawaiian Electric stated most storm damage tends to be due to trees that are outside the rightofway. Utility best practice is to identify and proactively remove these trees with removal being paid for by the utility, robust hazard tree program to greatly reduce the amount of damage that occurs during a major storm. Additionally, in response to the committees question about the Vegetation Management, Hawaiian Electric stated the vast bulk of invasive grasses on maui are not on land owned by Hawaiian Electric, utility also added you amazing vegetation such as grasses prevents easement and right away but not tall enough to contact the line is generally within Hawaiian Electric rights. 2,020 one report on wildfire prevention, the maui county cost of Government Commission concluded, aboveground powerlines, low hanging fire ignition, a spark that could start a wildfire particularly in wind or stormy conditions. The condition is exacerbated by overgrown areas in the rightofway. Would you agree preventing damage to powerlines by vegetation and preventing the spread of wildfires that could destroy electric infrastructure is a resilience issue . Certainly Vegetation Management is critical, and can cause damage to powerlines. Does your office plan to review potential policy changes to address hazard trees near utilities, rights of way and flammable overgrown vegetation in the vicinity of electric infrastructure . Yes, we are certainly aware of great investments Hawaiian Electric and other utility cooperatives of made. In my electric space particularly on Hawaiian Island where trees are invasive that of caused great damage, our policies, looking into policy changes, we will continue to look at ways to work with the private landowners and to try to have more cooperative efforts because a lot of these everything doesnt happen as you mentioned in the rightofway. Thank you. If there are, for example the overgrown shrubs or abandoned abundance of dry grass under Hawaiian Electric lines that are not tall enough to actually contact the lines, you maintain the company cannot do anything about them, it sounds like, based on Hawaiian Electrics response, wanted to give you a moment to elaborate. Thank you for the opportunity. Our easements are easements and rights of way allow us, vegetation and ran agenda is around our lines. It does not give us, its not a stated right to take care of the grass under our lines on private property. That is an issue i think we all in our state need to be looking at given what happened on august 8th, we all agree that is a critical issue. I understand Hawaiian Electric mentioned hazard tree removal and its application, for the resilience program. I understand the application is not yet approved, correct . That is correct, it is in process. What does Hawaiian Electric do if its employees or contractors identify a tree that appears to be at risk of contracting one of Hawaiian Electric lines, should it fall due to poor conditions are extreme Longworth House Office building. That have to get back to you on exactly what happens. We recently had an issue where there was a tree as a result of the fires, at risk of falling, but the property indicating who was at risk. Would you speak to the policy before the fires how the utility would respond in . The reason we are going to get approval for hazard tree removal, as i understand it is because we are not at this point allowed to go ahead and do that as part of a larger program. Even in our rightsofway. More questions to come at this time. I yield back. The gentle lady yields back, now recognize miss schakowsky. Thank you. Really want to thank the witnesses, the tragedy that you have faced, the Community Sentiments that must be so overwhelming, i want to say my condolences for loss of life and loss of history in such a beautiful community. One of the things that really shocked me was that there were some misinformation being spread at the time. I dont know if this became an issue. I wanted to ask about that. I know that there were, there were some the social media generated by china and other malicious actors who were saying that there was it was caused by government space lasers, discouraging some people from dealing with fema and that kind of misinformation, disinformation vote was being circulated, how shameful is that. But i just wanted to ask any or all of you if this disinformation had any effect, if you had to deal with that at the same time as trying to address the tragedy and the things that happened after words and all the work that you had to do in order to do the best for your communities. If you had any comments on that, hopefully it did not have a big effect but let me go from you. This is not an area of my expertise that ive been on the ground in lahaina talking to people so it is very distracting and it creates divide in the community. At a time when people need to come together and support the community, it does create noise that makes it much more difficult for that to happen. Talking about it personally for own company i remember having conversations, we would gather every morning and maui in a big circle at 7 00 a. M. Before the crews went out and i remember having to tell them stay focused on your work, be safe, dont let all of that noise on social media distract you and bother you because we have work to do and need to stay focused on serving our community. I am sure that is the kind of conversation others in the committee needed to have as well. Anybody else . The other thing i wanted to mention, all of that in vacation is not complete. What kind of impact does that have on your testimony today, what are we waiting for, what might you find out that has not yet been revealed because theres not yet a complete investigation . Can you answer that . Difficult to speculate on what might be found or what not be found, it is a complex situation as youve heard from many of the members here. Ive talked about in my Opening Statement being part of a systematic community, theres a system here that was in place for all of these conditions to happen all at one time that resulted in the devastation in lahaina, and theres a lot to unpack, its very complex. Many people, many different organizations are involved and many conditions are involved and all of that needs to be taken into account and those are all critically important to understand and how all of that works together as an interdependent system, for us to figure out the right solutions for hawaii as well. How soon do you think you are going to get the final information, from what you can plan ahead or changes that need to be made . The attorney general who is doing one of the investigations, hawaii state attorney general, the atf supporting the maui county Fire Department in the county of maui, i understand they are saying it will take 12 to 18 months so we are still in the early stages and it will take many months as well. My time is expired. I yield back, thank you. Now recognize doctor burgess of texas for his 5 minutes of questions. Thank you for holding this hearing today. It is important and i appreciate our witnesses being here. Is there ever any option to bury these delivery lines . Are they always going to be above ground . Or is it too cost prohibitive to bury the lines . And from all of you, actually. The standard on maui is for lines to be overhead. A customer can opt to have an underground, they have to pay for the undergrounding. It is very expensive. Some customers out to do that and they pay for that. About 50 of the lines on maui are underground. 50 . In comparison as i understand it, california is 33 underground. You have more underground delivery. Obviously some of this infrastructure will have to be replaced as you rebuild. I would ask is undergrounding consideration during the rebuild . As i talked to some Community Members in lahaina they would like to have the lines underground. These are conversations we are going to have to continue to have and solutions we have to figure out. Undergrounding in general is five times more expensive. On a small island like maui with only 70,000 customers, that can get very expensive in a place where we have the highest rates in the nation and already facing an economy where many of our people who have lived in hawaii for a long time can no longer afford to live in hawaii. Those are the considerations we have when we make these kinds of decisions, and the kinds of conversations we need to have as a community to make sure we are doing the right thing for the community. Leodoloff ascuncion, in your statement, you said the commission of which you are chair is going to take a proactive approach to ensure hawaii electric mitigates its risk. Would like you to elaborate on that little bit and add is undergrounding of the utility one of those measures . I think we look at all aspects of whether or not it goes underground. Theres that option if the customer does that, certainly we will put it underground and we do. A lot of our communities across the state underground versus overhead. It does come with some costs. To rate barriers, to the company, to all of us in the state of hawaii, though one of our themes is looking at the costs. I will say as an urban planner, the conditions underground especially in hawaii, if you hit the water table pretty quickly, those are other considerations, more technical considerations we need to look at, theres a cost to maintaining those lines underground so all of that is wrapped up in how we look at the work Hawaiian Electric will do or even it is all the same consideration. At the end of the day, are we impacting the ratepayers greatly for that island . We dont have subsidizing another island grid. At the end of the day sometimes the cost of doing nothing turned out to be prohibitive also. Let me ask you, does the age of the line make a difference . I dont know the term for it but the amount of coefficient of sag in the line, does it increase as the line ages . I wouldnt be able to tell you that. Im not the technical person. The comment was made in some of your testimony that some of this infrastructure is getting pretty old, fair to say . The brittleness of the line, likelihood that it might break, again, whatever term, im not aware of, the sag coefficient will increase, vegetation that may not have posed a problem when the line was installed now may because the actual physical configuration of the line is different. Is that a fair concern . It is fair. Some of those lines depending on the age, had a different type of standard at the time, our rules are prospective, doing maintenance, the cooperative is doing maintenance on the line, installing new lines, getting up to that code at the time. So the coefficient if you want to call it that of sag is different today, we would expect our utilities to build to the current status. Thank you, i will yield back. Now recognize Ranking Member of the full committee for his five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I reiterate again that i appreciate the witnesses being here and helping us understand what we can do in congress to help with this catastrophe but i cant help thinking you might be better off being at home and we would be better off if we could figure out how to avoid this shutdown. So i appeal to my colleagues on the other side to work with us to prevent the shutdown. In any case i know there are many details still to be uncovered but the electrification of the powerlines, i understand hco has taken response ability for the brushfire that broke out before 7 00 on august 8th in lahaina, is that correct . Can we explain what led them to this conclusion . We have a team doing an investigation. Many have also seen a video that a resident had taken in that area. In high winds our lines fell to the ground and it appears a fire was sparked in that area. I am sorry. I was going to explain that it started in a grassy area between a sidewalk and a road and as it traveled to be adjacent to the field behind one of the homes, as we understand it, it turned into a 3 acre fire and the Fire Department was able to contain it. It was clear your lines were energized before 7 a. M. Am on august 8th and the fire was eventually contained by the maui Fire Department and monitored until early that afternoon. Then at 3 00 pm, employees reported a fire in the same area as the earlier fire and this is a blaze that grew out of control and destroyed lahaina. Is that accurate . At 3 00 pm our lines had been out for over 6 hours. They were already deenergized. Can you explain what hco, when exactly they shut the power off, when did that happen . Just before 7 00 am, none of our lines in the west maui area serving customers were energized. How can you confirm the lines were not energized at the time . This is based on a lot of our system data, our smart meters, discussions with our employees, thats part of the information, from all angles, such a critical fact, we look at that closely and we are making our Information Available to the acf. So, it is important for fire investigators to determine the role of these powerlines. To cooperate with investigations into this matter. We have been fully cooperating and making our Information Available to them. And conducting an internal investigation into the events of that day . Yes, still early in our investigation. When do you expect to have results from your internal investigation . Do you commit to make those public . Do you have results . I dont have an exact timeline how long it will take but we expect it will take many months to get done and i am sure there will be more to talk about once we know what the results are. You committed, are you willing to commit to make those results public once the investigation is completed . Too early to speculate what comes out of this or what form it comes out, we are committed to sharing what is critical with the public on this. Any reason you wouldnt make it public . You seem to be hesitating a little bit. Is too early to speculate what that is going to look like, we are focused on finding out what happened there to make sure that it never happens again. I will conclude again that we pledged to be a partner to the people of maui as the recovery builds and do whatever we can to help on both sides of the aisle here. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member yields back. I will talk about how we monitor remote areas, kind of interested moving forward. To establish that i believe that Hawaiian Electric and subsidiaries have electric, running through remote territories. Is that correct . You have agreement running through remote territories. I would like to learn how you monitor that and its grid for potential problems. On august 7th, a security camera, the Maui Bird Conservation Center caught a bright flash, one person stated the power went out in the surrounding forest was on fire. Hawaiian electric aware of an incident involving its powerlines at that time . I do not know what was known at that moment. I cant tell you what our personnel new. Can the personal know of it from an internal system or do you only learn it with a news report . I would need to get back to you to know what they would know in that moment. We were talking line faults. The power line, and to display these faults. The last part of that. Those does Hawaiian Electric employee any kind of sensors or technologies for these faults . We do have technologies to do that but we are also investing in additional technologies to have Situational Awareness whats happening in the system and control and awareness. Were any of these faults you say you do have, were any of these working on those states . Did they alert the company there could be an issue with some of its lines . To check out the problem . Again, i can tell you in general, we had many indications of faults and employees looking at these faults. For that particular one, i cant tell you specifically what was happening in that moment. Response to the committee, august 30, 2023, letter, purchase five video cameras from maui in 2023. Where does maui electric plan to place them, dont have to provide specific sides, i want to know what your priorities are in placing the cameras. Just got those cameras of this weekend we intend to place at least some of them in west maui, i can assure you of that. Did you do it prior to that . I understand those cameras are already ordered. This came in after this. That concludes my question so i will yield any time. Recognize the chair of the committee. I yield to actually. We were speculating on answers to me and answers to miss castor. The impression i was left with, you were monitoring the Longworth House Office building situations in advance but the protocols orange triggered in the morning. Did the people who were monitoring the Longworth House Office Building Conditions not have the authority to trigger the protocols earlier than in the morning of the fire. They have the protocols to do that. They have the authority . The protocol allows them the authority to do that. Do you know why they did triggers when storm is building up overnight, why they didnt trigger it sooner than the next morning . I need to get back to you on the timing. I was indicating i am not sure of the exact timing of when they found out about the red flag warning and when the protocol was started. Let me get back to you on that. The question still remains, you knew the red flag warnings were likely to be coming but didnt have the protocols automatically ready to go. That is a question the committee will want an answer to at some point. The protocols were ready to go just to be clear. Protocols were in place and ready to go and they have the authority at their discretion by assessing the situation and understanding what the Longworth House Office building report is. I yield back. I yield back and the chair recognizes mr. Peters from california. I want to thank the witnesses in these difficult circumstances. In san diego, we are familiar with devastating effects of wildfires and you have sympathies for what happening in the community and what will be a long and difficult process. Due to the devastating impacts of climate change, disaster Recovery Efforts need to incorporate strategies of resilience against future threats with largescale evaluation of existing grid infrastructure. Specifically opportunities to reduce big nations such as underground powerlines but the Risk Assessment has to go beyond the threat of ignition to a sure communities have sufficient evacuation routes, Defensible Space around structures as prioritized and enforced. The wildfire crisis will require a comprehensive response. In your september 19th letter you mentioned the advance assistance 2. Oh project. One of the listed goals is to provide hawaii specific framework for Hazard Mitigation and strategy implementation. What are the unique challenges facing grid infrastructure on maui . Some of the unique challenges have to do with coordinated approach being able to address problems of the infrastructure and with our home rule state, we have county government sort of control and the county has jurisdiction on the initial Emergency Management as well. Part of it is to coordinate when infrastructure is compromised. Whats the role of the state Energy Office and strengthening the grid, making necessary investments to address any challenges you identified especially that are unique to hawaii . We go through these working groups and other forms we participate in and also participating in regulatory proceedings and those recommendations we pursue vigorously through the process and followup afterwords with commission and we also work with stakeholders in the state to get further. Any specific recommendations about the grid . We identified a number of agreed improvements that needed to be made. Did the state follow your recommendations in terms of making investment or committing to changes . The working group we participated in submitted those recommendations in 2022 and the full report of the integrated plan was submitted in may 2023 so the commission has not had an opportunity to review but we hope that will be forthcoming in the next 12 months. Leodoloff ascuncion, what role does the psc play, how is the response to your work . Thank you for the question. Specifically. There is Hawaiian Electrics invitation to invest in 109 million to upgrade transmission and distribution infrastructure. Thats coming along well. I think there was filing of the application and opportunity here to get some federal money to supplement that. At the end of the day it does save our ratepayers half of the project. Understanding that an award was announced, the department of energy, talking over the exact scope of the funding and how they would get that money back to us. We have committed to Public Utility Commission to render a decision within 90 days of the announcement of that award. Sounds like you appreciate the role of this infrastructure in a transmission for resiliency, sorry this came as you were dealing with it. I wish you the very very best. Love and prayers to folks in hawaii and i yield back. The gentleman yields back, recognize the gentle lady from florida for five minutes. Thank you for hosting this hearing and thank you to our witnesses for appearing before the committee on this important topic. As we all know, the fire brought horrific loss and truly a tragedy, for everyone impacted our hearts break. My hope today in this hearing as we not only get answers, but much needed answers for so many people and identify ways to avoid another tragedy. I will start with you, shelee kimura, did i say that correctly . Weve seen the news reports alleging Hawaiian Electric may not have properly maintained its electrical equipment, we want to give you an opportunity to respond to those claims, specifically in the response to the committees august 30th letter, Hawaiian Electric stated its inspection it mitigation programs to mitigate fire risk includes the inspection of the polls and you further explain, part of the program that you are looking for, indicators of strength, treatment for termites et cetera. Being from florida, i know what humidity, heat, and wind and salt can do to environment and assets. I understand it is more challenging but in that report you stated you had performed tests and treats programs on 29,000 of the 31,000 would polls in maui county since 2013. Why were there are approximately 2,000 polls that were not subjected to the same thing . If i could take a moment to clarify an earlier thing i was talking about, the red flag warning, when we instituted our protocols i was able to double check on the information. The red flag warning was initiated overnight on august 7th. By the morning of august 7th at 7 00 a. M. Instituted our protocols. I want to make that clarification the day before this happened. You are right that 29 of 31,000, the last 2000, my understanding is we hadnt gotten to those yet and they are part of the program now. We have looked at, there is a wall street journal article talked about this recently as well. If i could take the opportunity. You could submit that for the record. To really understand if any of those polls that were not treated, 2000 polls, if they were not part of that program over that 10 year span, were any of those polls the one located in areas that were struck by the fire on the seventh and eighth the . I dont know the answer to that question. As indicated, theres a lot happening right now and we are still in response mode and havent been able to look at those things, very good question, something we will look at. I can tell you that near the fire we looked at one of the polls and we know that was inspected in 2022. That is an indication in those areas of the timing of when they were inspected. Appreciate it. My state, my district took a cat 3 hurricane and i 100 understand recovery comes first to but certainly in the future it would be helpful to understand if those polls were in the area that the initial start, what we could be doing in terms of mitigating with either composite, concrete, looking at a variety where there is areas especially prone to having a weakened structure, that would be helpful. I have 39 seconds so i will jump around. The report that you issued, that the county issued for july 2021, the wildlife, wildfire prevention, thats not binding. Correct . Dont know if thats binding. You are aware of the county of maui. Im aware of the report to the county of maui. Did anyone from the utility engage with maui county or the cost of Government Commission following the report to identify why they help address the concerns laid out in this report . We were not tasked with those recommendations, those recommendations went to personnel in the county of maui and we were not necessarily tasked with those recommendations, that said, the content of the recommendation, those two recommendations, we were already doing that and that is part of the wildfire mitigation fund. I think it is important to nail down what happens with jurisdiction on those recommendations and take response ability for them. Your implement a number of them but i would like to know where the liability falls. Thank you, once again. Now recognize the gentleman from alabama fit 5 minutes of questions. Thank the chairman of the witnesses for appearing. It is heartbreaking what happened to lahaina. I really hope we can get things worked out for the people who suffered so much. I look forward to hearing from my colleagues from hawaii, this really hangs heavy over them. I want to ask mr. Leodoloff ascuncion, after the case is decided, the Public Utility Commission, performing under a power line, how does the commission go about verifying the work was performed . We constantly follow up with the committee. Either through reporting, which we have a variety of types of reporting either monthly or semiannually or annually. What we want to make sure is how is it impacting the ratepayer . That spending is in the right place to take care of things and we see progress, whatever the program is versus not seeing progress. I understand you want to look out for the ratepayer. I have some timberland, the powerline goes through it. The Power Company is diligent in keeping the vegetation cut down, making sure theres not fuel underneath the wires that could be ignited and would not damage the lines or poles that support the line. I am up there and see whats being done, people who live around there see that. Have there been people on maui reported growth of vegetation. The potential problem for wildfire . I will say those reports would not come to the utility commission. Does it come, what i need to know, the public reporting this to the Power Company, taking action, does the commission know about this . The commission, what we have. The immediate is contingent on the utility. If they dont act on it. Any penalties . Any enforcement action, if the Power Company doesnt, the due diligence, to make sure as they mitigate risk for a wildfire or harm to the public in any other way . We do have processes in place that could call the utility be forced to explain their action. Any penalties . Are there any penalties . Anyway to exercise enforcement that Power Companies are not complying with requirements. We would have to figure out in penalties or actions, through the process. You have to figure it out . That leads me to conclude you dont have those in place now. We do have those in place to get to that. Find them out of compliance, what action do you take, do you find the company . To make the utility accountable. It includes everything from conditions all the way up to penalties. I am not satisfied with the answers. I would like a witness to provide to the committee in detail the enforcement measures that the commission can impose on a utility that doesnt comply with regulations. We can get that to the subcommittee. We appreciate it, thank you. I yelled back. The gentleman yields back. Recognize mister tonko. Thank you, the Ranking Member, hosting this hearing which is quickly important. Recovery efforts on maui are still underway, i do sincerely appreciate the witnesses being here to help us begin to understand the disaster and relief efforts unfolded. I want to focus on the federal government response to understand the support you received and where more could be done to assist Recovery Efforts now and in future emergencies. On august 8th, the Lieutenant Governor issued an emergency proclamation and activated the Hawaiian National guard shortly after it became clear the lahaina fire could not be controlled. August 10th, Hawaii Governor green requested a major disaster declaration which was immediately approved. August 18th, President Biden amended declaration to make more Resources Available for response and Recovery Efforts. Shelee kimura, can you describe the federal involvement in recovery, what more might help support shortterm Recovery Efforts on maui. Our teams are part of the Maui Emergency Operations Center and in that center, they are working alongside maui county is coordinating the resources of fema, epa, a number of different organizations and all of that assistance is appreciated and made a Significant Impact on our states ability to support the lahaina, unity. As we move forward, i cant speak to all the data about what is needed. We need to rebuild what has happened in maui. It is going to take a lot to clear what is there and we appreciate the assistance provided for that effort and to make it safe for people to go back, because theres a lot of toxins and hazards and those kinds of things, that is critically important but as we rebuild, it is going to be very expensive and i am very concerned about how the county of maui and citizens of maui are going to absorb the cost of that rebuild. Thats where assistance from the federal government could be very helpful. Shelee kimura, are there additional steps you would like to see in your state to report longterm Recovery Efforts in hawaii . This is not my area of expertise. Im apologize i cant answer about specific needs. We know that there are opportunities for federal funding, we have a team of people looking at that, not just at our company but many other organizations to ensure that we look at all opportunities to support the recovery in rebuild of maui. The question also directed to leodoloff ascuncion. Could you repeat that . Are there additional steps you would like to see Congress Take to support longterm Recovery Efforts in hawaii . I think we always appreciate what the federal government can help in this particular disaster, other Natural Disasters we have, we have always had a Good Relationship with the federal government. I would like to keep it that way. But certainly, not only specific to hawaii but all our states that we represent, where we can get Additional Resources from the federal government, we certainly appreciate that. Of the questions to the subcommittee, to respond in writing, i thank you all and many of us in congress are committed to mauis recovery and willing to do what we can to support that effort. Congress must ask President Biden subliminal appropriations request that includes 16 billion to prevent Disaster Relief fund and supporting the Recovery Efforts for running dry. I look forward to hearing from my colleagues in hawaii, representatives, you have my condolences for what you and your community are experiencing, and committed to make a difference on your behalf. I yield back. The gentleman yields back, now recognize Mister Duncan who is chairing a subcommittee upstairs and we appreciate you being a part of this subcommittee as well. Now yield to you for five minutes for your questions. The hearing upstairs on grid reliability and affordability. A lot of things, our hearts and thoughts and prayers are with the folks in maui. Shelee kimura, appreciate the conversation, i see the pain in your face about what your fellow citizens are enduring. I want you to know sincerely we will do all we can and continue to lift you up in thoughts and prayers. I want to submit for the record, Renewable Energy rather than wildfire prevention. We take that up at the end of the meeting according to protocol. Thank you for taking the time to be here. It is a long trip. There were plans to build a facility in hawaii, why did that never come to fruition . This is many years ago. We had been working on a proposal for lng infrastructure in hawaii to import it into hawaii and that was part of the bridge strategy that we had to get to our renewable goals while we transition to renewables and lower the carbon footprint. When we were in the process of posing those plans the governor of the state of hawaii at that time indicated that that that path forward is not appropriate for hawaii and the focus and investment should be, at the time i dont think it was one hundred . The focus should be on achieving the renewable goals and putting the investments there. Your dispatch will capacity comes from i understand that. Can your pete that . Your dispatch will generation now comes from an oil plant and youre using biodiesel and i appreciate that. Have it dispensable to supplement renewables. How would you assess natural gas affect the availability of generation affordability overall level . That was done many years ago and i cant recall the that assessment was done many years ago and i cant recall now what the impact was. We had determined atd the time they couldni significantly redue the costs of electricity in hawaii if we were able to implement that at that time. And with sufficient time from when we were proposing it when we had to achieve a renewable goals we felt like the investment was worth it and could amortize itself overr that time to provide that longterm benefit to customers. For the record i would just say cleanburning do is produce natural gas has helped the United States lower its carbon emissions. The you think the impactnk of ts fire will have on the cost of electricity and overall reliability of Hawaiian Electric grid will change other construction of the lng facility . That is hard for me to say. In hawaii, we havent talked about lng for many years in hawaii. Do you think that conversation will come back up now . It has not. Hawaii is very focused on achieving our current statute of 100 renewables, and as we implement our Renewables Agenda here, were achieving projects, for example, solar plus storage project that when into the ground last year was at nine cents per kilowatt hour. That was a third of the cost of what itld would cost for fossil fuel generation based on oil. So we were continuing to pue that route and were also pursuing firm generation which we believe is needed to fill the gaps of solar and wind and storage and other Renewable Resources that were implementing. Just a side question because its not in my prepared questionses here but i thought with a volcanic activity in the Hawaiian Islands, is thermal something that is even look at . Is what . Thermal. Yes. We have geothermal on the big island of hawaii, and that is a very important resource and a firm resource that we believe is critical to the future of hawaii. What is also challenging to get that resource. So i would love to investigate that more. Last question. My we public utility. We are having hearing of the nations grid operators about the challenges of reliability on the grid due to state policies another has to be a refocus on Core Missions of grid operator states and regulation of reliability. Given clear shortcomings identified that station management in your submitted response we also to go back and reexamine how and whether state policies to drive Energy Resource to be 100 renewable may have affected priorities or beautifully and away from focusing on resilience and managing risks including medication fire risk. Was that a question to me . Yeah. So because of those cost savings that i talked about between, the example a gig of solar plus storage versus the cost of fossil fuels, oil that weve been talking about, that cost savings given the high rates that we have in hawaii, we can take that cost savings and we can invest it in our grid. So that isnd been the strategy weve been employing over the lastve many years. Thank you so much. Im way over time. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Gentleman yields back. I do see any other members wishing to ask questions at the thumb side like to thank our witnesses again for being here today. Pursuant to Committee Rules i remind members at ten Business Days to submit additional questions for the record of that would include all the things asked about that you need to come back to us on and thats fairly standard. And then asked the witnesses that you all submit your responses to those questions and followups within ten Business Days of receipt of those questions. That being said this concludes the first panel. We will now transition to the panel. Thank you very much for being here today. [inaudible conversations] why dont we take a fiveminute recess and we will come back with the second panel. All right. The committee will come back to order. Everybodys in their seats, so thank you for testifying before the committee today. Our witnesses for panel to representative ed case applies first is again red United States of hawaiis second district. Representative case, you are no, for five minutes for your statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman, regular, members of the subcommittee. Good morning. Aloha and first of all, for all of the people of hawaii thank you so much for your expressions of concern and for your focus in this hearing. Before you today is a former representative for the second congressional which is maui and one which collects only about our country and our world feel a deep personal sense of loss. But most importantly i appear before you as one with my colleague ms. To kudo, are to my provisions in a white because a why we dont think about district lines come to six of matter in hawaii, maui and lahaina are part of all of hawaii in this incredible tragedy was and is a tragedy for west maui, for maui, but it is a deep felt tragedy for a white and were all, all in for maui. Ms. Tokuda has been a constant on maui, devoted to maoris need since early days of this tragedy. We will describe for your you little bit our personal detail what happened, what the situation is on the ground, really some personal stories that help drive home the point of the true situation and what our path must be going forward. And as you consider the testimony today and own future path to an congress, i would like to leave you with about three thoughts on an overview. First of all, i agree that Congress Role and involvement is critical. In a disaster such as of this, only our federal government can muster the resources and energy and the scope of critical assistance that is going to be necessary to truly address tragedy of this nature here and by focusing the attention and concern of congress on the maui disaster, you highlight the critical needs here and i think you also highlight the path forward in terms of making sure that this doesnt happen in other communities throughout our country. Because each tragedy must offer lessons to be understood and learned, otherwise it is only going toto be repeated and the life that weve lost, the community thatco we lost would e disrespected. But as this tragedy can offer lessons at least hawaii and those that have been lost can offer something to the rest of our country and the world. So your focus here is really critical and your questions have been relevant and critical, and i thank youl for them. Second, the full focus of our collective efforts must remain on maui. We are only 51 days after a very sudden and terrible tragedy, but i think its important to understand the reality of maui and hawaii today. Of course with almost 100 confirmed dead but we simply have not identified the remains of many and with many that are still missing. That effort must continue. We have a community of some 12,000 which is fully displays come 7800 in hotel rooms come full efforts in locating difficult, difficult it is housing. We have a removal project that is only just begun. We have businesses that are devastated and only now are facing the reality of whether and how to survive. We have the full resources of our federalstate and county governments, the community and our congressional delegation all focused on the necessary efforts that are required for maui today. We have as you know already at least three investigations, full investigations, independent investigations and we all know that of thehe number of lawsuits that have alwayss been filed. And these are factfinding exercises that in time will bring out the answer to many of the questions that this committee have asked. At all of this is where our efforts should remain for now. All of which is to say that while we in i congress have a vy critical role, and agree with you, mr. Ly chair, its not too early to ask these questions, we shouldse not disrupt and what we doing today, what is necessary to be done for maui. So the b what the time for congress i think to delve more deeply into exactly what happened and to learn the lessons of maui and some stability has been restored. Third, how can congress best help now today . First of all, we ask you and encourage you to visit maui to see and feel for yourself this tragedy. This is something that we welcome the president , we welcome the speaker, we have welcomed of our colleagues. Nothing can replace that sense of understanding to do that. And second we ask that we all collectively fund the Disaster Relief fund by the federal Emergency Management agency which is running dangerously low now. So these are two concrete areas where we can help maui and all of us right now. But again for maui come for hawaii, my deepest appreciation for your constructive effort today for this hearing, and we completely stand ready to work with you. Not only for maui but for the rest of our country to make sure that the lessons a are learned. Thank you again. Thank you very much for your comments and now recognize representative jill tokuda for her fiveminute statement. Thank you. Thank you. Chairman griffith, Ranking Member castor, Ranking Member of and members of the subcommittee. Mahalo again for your outpouring of support and commitment to our people. Thank you for allowing us this opportunity to testify about the wildfires that haveor devastated our maui ohana. I join representative case an inviting you to come actually see and expense what has happened in our community but more important work with us to rebuild and recover from the devastation. Like all of you i want answers. Not that they has gone by since the firesbu idle ask myself questions. Happen . This what couldve been done differently . How do we make sure this never happens again . How do we keep our people, our families safe . What now . Why . Why . Thats the hardest question. Ive also been asked many questions myself. When can i go home . Is the air safe to breathe . How will i pay my mortgage . Who can help me rebuild my business . How do i tell my students their friend isnt coming back . When question that sticks with me came shortly after the fire. A women approach me and asked me if i could please help her find her husband. They had gone to all the shelters, the hospitals. Theyve given the dna sample. What should she do networks she showed me a picture of her husband burnedout truck on the site of the wrote and asked me why the back door was open. Could have escaped . Where is he . I i couldnt answer her questios that date. All i could do was hold her hand, a arm around her and try to comfort her. In the weeks that followed i look for her husbands name on every single list. First it was on the list of the missing. A few weeks ago identified among the dead. I share this with you because there are so many questions about this tragedy that must be answered. People want answers, people want accountability. But our people are still grieving. They are frustrated. They are grappling with her new reality. They are justifiably mad that this has even happened to them. Far too many lives were lost in our very tightknit community. Some are still waiting anxiously of news of the loved one, and while the what some kind of resolution they fear that knock on the door. While its been almost two months, most all of not seeing the remains of their home with the first line of residence being allowed back into the property just this week. The question we need to be focused on right now is how do we keep the help coming to maui . We are two days away from a shutdown. Our people have gone through enough. The wheels h of government must continue to turn in work to provide them the support and the resources they so desperately need to focus onee recovery and rebuilding. Last week in a house transportation and infrastructureee subcommittee hearing one of our colleagues suggested the maui fires were the result of hawaiis pursuit of Renewable Energy. He thener insinuated to fema administrator crystal that the focus should not support Recovery Efforts for disasters in states that pursuedsa net zeo policy. Unfortunately these comments feature that only lack of understanding of a wise unique Energy Infrastructure but also willingness to exploit our pain and tragedy for politicalur gai. What we already knew before this disaster is that lahaina is not unique among rural and remote communities across our country that is not received enough investment and we are ensuring access to services as a constant struggle. This tragedy as i led the disparities that exist in energy, telecommunications, transportation and water infrastructure. Our rural committees like access to health care, Mental Health services, Emergency Services and more. The investments we make it through the Infrastructure Investment and jobs act andct Inflation Reduction Act must be but a first step and we understand the urgent need to do more. The path ahead for maui will be long and difficult. It will take years if not generations to recover from this disaster. Homes, schools, businesses, they will be rebuilt. The scars of the trauma on our people, honor families will take much, much longer to heal. As various local, state, and federal entities continue to investigate the cause of the maui wildfires the Emergency Response across all levels of government we must not forget the Human Element of this tragedy. Behind the whirlwinds of investigation and litigation that emerge from this disaster is a Community Still healing and fighting every day to recover and rebuild. While the historic banyan tree has become a symbol of hope, we must never forget that the people of lahaina are hurting. There is no lahaina. Without the voice, the vision of her people. Like you and i, our people of questions, too. We all deserve answers. Right now the most important question, question must be how do we continue to keep the help coming to maui . Mahalo for allowing myself and congressman case to testify before this committee. We will continue to count on your support and commitment in the weeks, months and years to come. With all of you as part of now are extended maui w mahanta i he that our people can and will continue to stay maui strong. I yield back. Thank the gentlelady for hert comments. And appreciate each of you all being here, and know that the subcommittee will try to find answers. And that while doing so we will not forget the Human Factors involved as well. Anything final . I would thank you, representative tokuda, thank you representative case. I heard you loud and clear, and on behalf of the democratic side of the aisle again are some fees are with you. I think we can best show our sympathies are acting, i as you said giving, helping get answers, making sure that the recovery continues, that the Disaster Reliefid recovery funds fully funded. And then taking the Lessons Learned to help prevent this from ever happening anywhere else and i didnt want to offer, you know, what caught, this is a wonder anniversary of Hurricane Ian that hitul southwest florida where 150 people died, over 50 drowned because a storm surge. So they are still recovering, too, as people in puerto rico are. Just a couple months ago hurricane ideally a hit, it hit cans district but in my area as to the people who are floated out that all that belongs in pot out in the street and what caught my to do this morning on theue front page of my hometown newspaper, the tenth of a it says fema has paused florida aid. And i just, as the Ranking Member comer as Ranking Member lowey said, we just cannot afford o a shutdown. The story says that its disruptive longerterm recovery projects already without going into the shutdown thats coming this weekend but what fema has had to do is disrupt longerterm recovery projects in florida, puerto rico and other committees had bypass calamities illustrate how republicanled standoff in congress could unleash real hardship in americans lives. Its impacting the reconstruction of the grid, in puerto rico. The department of economic settlement, commerce in puerto rico. C to prevent an interruption and federal Disaster Response President Biden urge lawmakers last month to restock femas coffers as representative case mentioned as a shortterm deal, roughly 16,000,000,000 supplemental aid. That money spent to augment federal Recovery Efforts around the wildfire that recently ravaged maui, flooding is some info markham the aftermath of hurricane. So fart congress has failed to act. Said republicans led by House Speaker mccarthy have held up efforts to fund the government. This is, t we, this is crazy. This is, this is selfinflicted. This is not how a country is great as the United States of america should be acting. This is a gift to our adversary pics i just urge my republican colleagues because i heard youre very sincere sentiments that you are here to help support the people of maui. The most important thing to do, it is in our panel right now, these investigations are going to be ongoing for months, the most important thing is to ensure that the people on the ground can continue to help. Representative tokuda and i talked yesterday your code like to ask you a little question about whats going on in the recovery. Not allowed ask questions. Okay. Part of our t protocol, soy. I would encourage a to talk to representative tokuda and representative case about extensive recovery and that missions are on the ground. A major the beginning of the hearing on my way out to the pacific rim, we were in honolulu on the way back, the United States army gave us everything of the recovery. It was, these people are heroes. They, they step back from the nationals could emission to focus on the recovery other neighbors in maui. These are very difficult assignments under very difficult conditions. So lets not throw a range into the recovery. People in maui. Lets not aggravate and pile on the pain. This can be avoided and a just encourage all to take that to heart and put people over politics. Ss because right now people look at washington faca political mess, and its time to really think about the people all across america that are going to be impacted. I think the gentlelady for her comments and i wanted to get into too much politics but certainly welcome all the democrat votes that we can get on republicanled measures to keep thehe government open. Mr. Chairman . We need to bring this to a conclusion. But i would ask unanimous consent to enter into direct the documents on the staffing documents list. Without objection that will be the order. Ts mr. Chairman, im not asking the question. I want to make you, if thats all right. Well, i made a very brief comment and then i would be brief. And got a long, although heartfeltts response. And i dont know if this is a time that we should be debating. I just wanted to say, if i could, just like a minute. And a sense of comedy, not comedy but comedy, getting along, i would like it is the gentleman to make a brief,. Thank you. Im not going to repeat about the shutdown. We all know thats not a good thing for whats happening in hawaii in terms of the recovery. But it did want, i know that representative tokuda also make mentioned this idea of some kind of ideological test for recovery. You know, he said it was suggested that if youree lookig to 100 renewable that this shouldnt be funds going to hawaii. We heard this also in my case, remember, the aftermath of sandy. There were those were making outrageous comments about how we shouldnt help the northeast. Ive been here long enough to know that whenever theres a Natural Disaster, we help everybody. Its not democrat, its not republican, is not ideological. It shouldnt be, right . As im glad you mentioned that, but i do think we all should say that that should never, the should never be a litmus test. And his support to say that as well. This litmus test, in this case, seems to be linked to climate change. The bottom line is that everything i see is this driver education was a major factor. Soev we cant, we cant not only have a climate, and ideological test but we all need come also need to recognize one of the causes year in the longterm is climate change, and that needs to be addressed as well. I thank the gentleman for his brief comment. Thank you. All that being said, without objection the subcommittee is adjourned. 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