Transcripts For CSPAN2 First 20240703

We are looking into trenton, continuing to lie about the Oversight Committee. They uncovered bank wires. They were feeling how President Joe Biden, received millions from chinese company, with significant ties to chinese intelligence, and the Chinese Communist party. This originated in beijing from chinese nationals. This happened when President Joe Biden, was running for president of United States. His home is listed as the beneficiary address. Today, the Oversight Committee created 20 Shell Companies. They were created when President Joe Biden was Vice President. This was between 2014 and 2019. We have identified nine family members who have participated in, or benefited from these shady business schemes. What was President Joe Biden selling to make all this money . President joe biden, is the brand. He showed up with business targets and associates, sending signals of access, influence, and power, to those willing to pay for it. The American People demand accountability for this cultural production. They demand to know how these schemes have compromised President Joe Biden, and have threatened our National Security. They demand safeguards to be put in place to prevent Public Officials from selling access to the Public Office for private gain. Under the leadership of speaker, Kevin Mccarthy, they have opened an impeachment inquiry. We are now focused on whether he engaged in offenses. It empowers congress, elected by the people. They are continuing to provide the answers, transparency, and accountability that the American People demand and deserve. In recent history, democrats inflicted much damage on the credibility by impending the russian collusion hopes. At this committee under this majority, will not pursue witchhunts based on manufactured allegations, innuendo, and no real evidence. Today, the Oversight Committee will examine over two dozen pieces of evidence, revealing President Joe Bidens corruption and abuse of Public Office. This includes emails, Text Messages, bank records, and testimony of President Joe Bidens Business Associates. We will hear from legal and Financial Experts about this evidence, and crime that may have been committed as President Joe Biden, was sold around the world. The house Oversight Committee, will continue to follow the money. They have the evidence to provide accountability so that americans know that their Public Offices are not for sale. I yield you to the chairman of the house for his Opening Statement. Thank you, chairman. Yesterday, they released new documents, showing President Joe Biden was not just aware of his business dealings, but he was connected to them. In a newly released message to a Chinese Business executive, hunter biden, was looking at the keys to my families only asset. That asset, President Joe Biden. New evidence released in response to questions raised by members of the committee, on both sides when they were looking at the two iris whistleblowers, testified in july with these disturbing pictures of a revolving door between President Joe Bidens office, and Hunter Bidens Business Partners. According to a worksheet provided by the irs whistleblower, and then President Joe Biden 2014 official visit to ukraine, was only after a series of white house meetings. Hunter biden, and his Business Associates, regarding ukraine. Shortly after President Joe Biden returned stateside, the Ukrainian Company , announced Hunter Bidens appointment, to its board. New evidence provided, shows hunter biden, using his fathers position to gain favor with a billionaire. This includes having President Joe Biden host them at the white house in february of 2014. This is that the Vice President s residence, alongside another mexican billionaire in november of 2015. In 2016, using air force two to shutter hunter biden, and his Business Associates to mexico city. Whether it was lunches, phone calls, white house meetings, or official foreign trips, hunter biden, cashed in, by arranging access to President Joe Biden, the family brand. President joe bidens family, and their associates, received millions in payments from foreign sources, including from russia, china, ukraine, romania, and in one email, hunter biden, even bragged that he cut a deal for 10 million from Just One Company for quote, introductions alone. They wanted to keep the spotlight as far as possible. We had another irs interview with james, the president s brother. In september of 2022, the agency was barred in the interview. We are asking whether President Joe Biden, was involved in Hunter Bidens deal with a Chinese Energy company. When hunter biden, had 2 million mysteriously paid for by a Democratic Party donor named kevin morris who he barely knew, this was something that irs saw as a campaign violation. A u. S. Attorney, leslie wolf, said she did not any of the agents to look behind the tions. The agent took from that ey told investigators that she was not quote onal interested in ng it. This is the sameatrney, in an eml reduced yesterday, responded to irs investigators, looking for a search warrant. There should be thinabout political figure one in here. That is a reference by definition of President Joe Biden. President joe biden family sold access to his power. This is a tale as old as time. They make money for his family. He tries to conceal it. Never forget the four fundamental facts. He gets paid a lot of money. He is not qualified to sit on the board. Not my words, his words. This is because of the brand, and because of the name. They were asking hunter biden to weigh in, and look at the pressure that they were under from the prosecutor in ukraine. December 9th, 2015. They told the fbi, is in a 1023 form. They didnt want to let this committee see. All of those facts were further confirmed yesterday. This was with the information that these committees released from the whistleblowers. We are feeling comfortable with Blue Star Strategies, and the ability to care and deliver. Hunter biden, put them in touch with these Blue Star Strategies. What were they going to deliver . This was the communication release yesterday as well. In the United States, the need to express the report. They were looking at the highest decisionmakers. This was the president of ukraine. This is part of the prosecutor general. That is what they were going to deliver. The interior administrator confirmed that they are no longer wanted. This was less than a year. We have two indications between the folks at blue star, who was Hunter Bidens Business Partner. Graduations to you guys. That is the communication. That is what they got done. When this happens in october of 2016, when the pressure is taken off, and the case is dropped, they are dropping the charges. That is exactly what they want done. As the final step for President Joe Bidens Justice Department, sweeping it under the rug. All of that is coming in. They tried to put together the sweetheart deal, and get past the judge. We are learning yesterday. This is the search warrant. We are looking at electronic communications. They werent allowed to ask about political figure 1. They would have gotten away with it all. They had whistleblowers set in those seats two months ago. They told their story. They have a judge in delaware. That is why we are here today. That is why this inquiry is so darn important. These are the facts. In the chair now recognizes a Ranking Member. Eight before i give my Opening Statement, i have a parliamentary inquiry. Am i correct in assuming we are obligated to follow the rules of the house . They are engaging personalities towards the president. Considering this is the investigation of President Joe Biden, things have been going to come up. We are just operating with general rules. I think the president is considered in engaging in their personality. They had activations of the president. This is not part of the parliament. We are looking at the general of the house. It is not authorized because the speaker of the house is authorized. Clean it up. This is it. The required vote is part of the house. We have articles of impeachment. We are looking in the potential wrongdoings of the president. This is a unique subject matter of todays topic. Thank you for clarifying. We obviously have an honest disagreement about that. 60 hours away from shutting down the government of the United States of america. They are looking at the impeachment drive. This is long, and discredited. No foreign enemies have been able to shut down the government of the united dates. We dont want to cut it off. We have 1 million servicemembers. This is against President Joe Biden, for an Impeachable Offense. They are looking at the actions of the publicans. They are trying to function it. It is the clown show. They are terribly misguided. Theyre disgraceful. They are new lows. They are enabling germans. They dont have a plan. It shows us how broken they are. They want to burn the whole place down. They probably take my words down. These are republicans talking about republicans. Lets be clear, this isnt the partisan workfare. It is chaotic between republicans and republicans. This is versus the extreme. Does anyone in the world tell the difference between the two . What a staggering feeling. They have different elements of his conference. They are threatening the well being of every american. Some people think the members of the caucus arent interested in anything logical. They just want to see the world burn. This is how they put it in the dark knight. I see a method in the madness. Donald trump would cut off paychecks to a couple of servicemembers and federal workers. They paid them later for having not worked. They will be against millions of moms and kids. They have prosecutions on all of these misdemeanor charges. They would be defunded, and will keep him from going against a jury of his peers before the 24 election. Flying around for the wicked witch of the west, they have different messages. Standard impeachment is not whether they did it to us, but whether the president committed treason for these misdemeanors. A Freedom Caucus member told donald trump that he is on his social media account, and said we should be impeaching President Joe Biden. Yevgeny prigozhin nine, said we have an impeachment inquiry. This was the result of Donald Trumps pressure. We are moving from the shutdown to a donald trump ordered impeachment process. We are back in the reality based world. We are completely empty handed. We have no evidence of any president ial wrongdoing. No smoking gun. It was imperative and necessary when he was impeached. They might not take the Momentous Movement from legislative oversights. This is from a full house of such authorities. January 19, 2020. The house voted in the case of donald trump. They dont have the votes. Dozens of republicans recognized what a futile and absurd process this is. The title of the hearing is the basis for the impeachment inquiry of President Joe Biden. Yet, they present is no basis at all today. This is even after eight months of investigations. They have invited three witnesses to testify. Not one of them is an eyewitness to a president ial climate. Not one of them is a direct stat, with any of the events related to karen, ukraine, and charisma. This is part of the eight months of investigation. The distinguished germans have publicly posted that he receive 100 of everything he asked for. I quote, every subpoena that i have signed a looking at the house Oversight Committee. This is 100 of what we have requested. It was all with the banks. They have the treasuries. We are the real witnesses here. The committee has received 12,000 pages of bank records. Here they are. Right in front of us. Not a single page it shows a dime showing the president , or President Joe Bidens son. We are receiving 2000 reports to the chairman subpoenas. We have everybody from these Business Partners, to a federal agent assigned to that investigation. Still, we found no evidence of wrongdoing. They were looking at a smoking gun. They were even working at a tripping water pistol. They would be presenting it today. Theyve got nothing on President Joe Biden. All they can do is return to the thoroughly demolished life that donald trump and Rudy Giuliani, launched five years ago. This is a fairytale so preposterous, that one of the main authors has now disowned and refuted it. They have the most western governments. The targeted ukraine and prosecutor generals. They are showcased for removal. Hunter bidens action was all drawn on this. This relied on President Joe Biden, saying that he got bribed. He would not give 1 billion to ukraine unless they got rid of the prosecutor. This is the opposite of the truth. He is a key player in the obama administration. They were trying to combat corruption in ukraine. They have a coordinated global effort. President joe biden, called for their removal. This was a corrupt general. This was other than them participating in it. Rather than assist british authorities who are actually investigating the owner. They consistently frustrated their efforts. The leadership efforts were brought in part by partisan campaigns. This was early 2016. The road to the ukrainian president. They have failing corruptions in the country. They were trying to press ahead with urgent reforms to the prosecutor generals office. This is part of 2018. Donald trump, saul President Joe Biden, has a strong rival. They were twisting it all around. The accused President Joe Biden of corruption, and calling for the dismissal of the corrupt prosecutor. A few months ago, the Committee Received the insiders account of the plan that was spreading these lies. Extraordinary letters were sent to us. They were Rudy Giulianis right hand man. They searched high and low to find anyone who looks at the contortions about President Joe Biden. This was culminated in the infamous phone call. They made that to the ukrainian president , volodymyr zelenskyy. They had hundreds of billions of dollars in strategic and military Security Assistance actions to ukraine. They were embracing the ridiculous fabrication, and falsely advertising to the world that ukraine was investigating President Joe Biden. The shakedown became the basis for the first house impeachment of donald trump. Rudy giulianis big lie, has been debunked by multiple sources. They are a former chief of the u. S. Criminal attorney defense actions in colorado. I quote, there is in fact no evidence that they were engaged in investigations. They were inspiring. They were not in any way connected. He continued what is missing, despite years of investigation. They connect President Joe Biden, to his never do well son , and his corruption. It is scandalous to use impeachment to establish a counterfeit mold equivalent between President Joe Biden, and an honorable Public Servant who was never indicted, or convicted of anything in his career more than 50 years in public life. They have recently been found in court for a sexually abused woman. They were looking at the real estate properties, facing 91 criminal charges in four separate indictments on anything from conspiring to overgrown elections, and defrauding the American People to make criminal has many payoffs. This is a president who behaves like a king. This is all equivalent to them. This is reserved for ordinary public offenses. That was the offense in 2021. They had related all of these crimes. This all led to donald trump the second impeachment in the house on a massive bipartisan vote. 232 to 197. This is a similarly life cited bipartisan vote. I wonder how many esteemed colleagues are here. They are against voting on impeaching donald trump. They were reconciling their votes. They had a grave crime of inciting a violent insurrection against the government. This is with her calls, supporting impeachments. They allegedly committed a high crime demeanor. It is not even defined are much less proven. If they are going to insist on going forward, we must receive the testimony of Rudy Giuliani, and others. We are looking at which this is working to spread. We know they are ready to testify. They will surely enlighten us on everything. I move that the Committee Subpoena Rudy Giuliani, to come and testify in these hearings. I would like to ask for a vote on that. This is as you would say it. Are they going to table it . I didnt hear a motion to table. The chair recognizes that. There is a motion to table his motion. Is there a second . I would like to ask for a recorded vote on that. This is on subpoena of the two key figures, including Rudy Giuliani. Key figures for what . This is your theory about why President Joe Biden, should be impeached. This is imperative for you. We are going to present evidence. What evidence . Sit back, and with the American People see the hearing. But the American People see this. You have gone over your time. We are going to go over this. We are going to go by the rules. Im glad that you brought the box. If we had a box of all the money, they would have reached to the ceiling. Everyones going to get five minutes. Everyone is going to get a chance. I let the Ranking Member go away over time. We are going to abide by the five minutes. There is a motion on the floor. It is a nondebatable motion on the floor. Will the clerk get prepared for the rollcall . He made a motion. Mr. Jordan made a motion to table. It was on a second. The vote will now be on the motion to table the motion to subpoena. Will the clerk take the role . Neither of them are in jail now. Is the motion to table his notion. Mr. Jordan, votes. Mr. Turney . They vote aye. Ms. Fox. Mr. Grossman. Mr. Palmer. Mr. Higgins. Mr. Sessions. They vote aye. They vote. Mr. Turner votes aye. Mr. Donald. Mr. Donald votes yes. Mr. Armstrong. Esther armstrong votes yes. He votes aye. Ms. Green. He votes aye. They vote aye. He votes aye. Mr. Edwards, votes aye. Mr. Langworthy, votes aye. Votes aye. Mr. Askins. No. Miss norton. No. Mr. Lynch. No. Mr. Conley. Nie. Christian. No. No. Votes no. Voting no. Voting no. They vote nay. Mr. Gomez. Votes no. Brown. Brown votes no. Doonesbury. Votes no grade garcia, voting no. Mr. Frost. Votes no. Lee votes no. They vote no. Mr. Goldman. Votes no. They vote no. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman votes yes. He is not recorded. He votes yes. Mr. Fallon is not recorded. Regular order, mr. Chairman. Chairman request the regular order. We have members in route to vote. I was mr. Palmer recorded . They are not yet recorded. They vote aye. Motion to close the vote. Mr. Chairman . Second. Green has voted aye. Chair recognizes them. However my recorded works you have voted aye. They have voted aye. Mr. Chairman. Yes. The chair recognizes mr. Fallon. All my recorded . Parliamentary inquiry. They are trying to close the vote. It was properly looking at a second. Will the clerk called role . Aye, 20, no, 19. Motion passes to table. Please to welcome an expert panel. They have expertise to todays hearing. They are looking at the chair for Public Interest at George Washington University Law school. This is a nationally recognized legal scholar. They have areas ranging from constitutional law, to legal theory. This is the United States department. They have former assistant attorney generals. They have the litigation of civil, criminal trials, and other taxations. We have the founder of the consulting accountants. They have a committed over 40 years of financial and consulting experiences. They have testified in over 80 trials, including trials involving criminal, civil, and financial fraud. Michael gerhardt serves as a distinguished processor at the university of North Carolina chapel hill. He is the author of seven books, and has written more than 100 law review articles. This is the nations leading use publications. They are trying to stand and raise the right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so hope you got . They are looking at the affirmative. You may be seated. We appreciate you being here today. We look forward to your testimony. We have read your witness statements. They have looked at the records. As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in front of you so that they can hear you. They will turn green. After four minutes, the light will turn yellow. This is part of the testimony. I now recognize the professor, to give his Opening Statement. Thank you. Ranking members, and members of the committee, it is an honor to appear before you today. We are talking about what is undoubtably the most waiting constitutional decision that you have under article one. This is other than declaration of war. That is the potential impeachment of the president of the dates. Four years ago, its all about donald trump. They were trying to go through it. We have shortening intervals between other impeachments. This should be the cause of concern. This is for all the members. This on both sides. Im trying to emphasize what it is. The question of impeachment inquiry. Is not on articles of impeachment. They are trying to look at support. I also do believe that the house has passed the threshold for impeachment inquiries and having said that, i want to just address all of these cable passes that led me to that conclusion. President joe biden, has indeed spoken falsely about these foreign deals. The Washington Post, and other newspapers, have passed some comment. They are most. Trenton, was the focus of a multimillion dollar influence peddling scheme. Finally, President Joe Biden, may have benefited from millions of dollars as a part of that schema. It should not be taken out of context. They are merely allegations. They should not become presumptions of impeachment or other comment with this conduct. They have a difficult issue under the impeachment clause. Some of this was rejected. They can be dishonest. They can lie to the American People. It is not an Impeachable Offense. It is not like any president. This is since James Madison. This is what i call guardrails. They are the best practices. They are trying to look at the layout with President Joe Biden. Im saying that in my testimony. This should not be a close question. It should not be a rush to judgment. You should be able to avoid the confirmation bias that can occur in this process. This is part of the influence process. United states have assigned treaties to combat this form of corruption around the world. That is the inescapable action. We need to find answers for some of these questions. Im running out of time. I would like to make one last observation. If i may. These are constitutional moments that they will transcend from each of us. It calls for something that is difficult. It is all about clarity for these members. This body is a powerful teacher. You can teach that. We can disagree without hating each other. These are close issues. Some of these issues really do gravitate in favor of the president. I would simply say that this is a moment where members of citizens cant do it. We cant appear before you today. The chairman invited me to share my thoughts on the conduct investigation into hunter biden. I make my comments on my own behalf as a private citizen, and not on behalf of any person with whom i might have been affiliated. I learned that experience irs agents, are looking at the report about the of for other criminal tax investigations. I felt compelled to share how this is supposed to work. They have no reason to appreciate how low these allegations are. Without a frame of reference, is difficult to know how seriously to take things. Mike pence, had u. S. Attorneys looking at whether it was his decision or not to bring charges to the investigations. This was the final draw. Their proven to have substantial thermal charges. We realize that they had to come forward. This is internally within the irs. This is as early as june 2020. This is all encountering it. There have been no responses. We are trying to come forward to congress. Special agents do the same. This is what followed, and compelled me to write them. My first article was to throw Hunter Bidens plea deal in the trash. This worked out. They had a miscarriage of justice. After the commentary was published, i heard from many people forcibly appalled at the unfolding injustice. This is a different aspect from the handling of the hunter biden matter. They had provable offenses. This was appalling. It is not significant for the plea agreement. This was announced on june 20th. Let me review what came before. We knew they were going to let Congress Know about the obstructions they were encountering. Later, they sat for hours, and subscribe for testimonies. It was expected that the committee would make the testimony public. This was on june 2022. This was a different announcer. They beat the publication of the whistleblowers testimony by the skin of his teeth. Two days. If they do not come forward, they will not supply any charges at all. My second wall street journal commentary was published on july 2025. This is what they have proven. The charges in the tax divisions are authorizing all of this. They are also looking at people who have been caught up in the system. They have suffered the consequences that the law provides. Im trying to proceed on this commentary too. They have been enforced. The nature of any investigation is following the lead. That didnt happen right here. This team is not permitted to search the guest house of President Joe Bidens delaware mansion, and Hunter Bidens Storage Facility in virginia. Trying to interview family members and Business Associates. Trying to examine the absence of Hunter Bidens laptop. The fbi confirmed that the devices were hundred, and they were under investigation. Dont forget, a full year after that in october 2020, fbi officials were telling twitter that the laptop was russian disinformation. This is already into an online photography platform. This was all developed. Agents follow wherever they were taken. When they take them in the direction of a new investigation, they open one. Theyre trying to block the investigation into the tax crimes. Im thinking the committee. Good morning. Distinguished members of this committee, guess, and other distinguished guests thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I agree to testify in these proceedings, in order to help this committee, and the American People, gain a better understanding of how far they are committed. They know how complex business arrangements, sometimes using Liability Companies, sometimes Show Companies, are used. This is how money is being used by fosters to facilitate the conduct of illicit activities. Let me be clear, i am not prejudging the fact that we have immersed anything with President Joe Bidens family, and the other businesses. They had other origins for foreign services. They have corruption for any wrongdoing. In my opinion, more information needs to be gathered. They are making assessments. I am here today to lend my expertise to answer questions that this committee may have while the event the investigation. They are gathering more facts about the business dealings from President Joe Bidens family, and Business Associates. They have a certified examiner. They are uncovering the truth when it comes to allegations of fraud, corruption, and wrongdoing. They are looking at the United States department of justice. This is the Worlds Largest ponzi scheme. I worked in the other case, the International Brotherhood of teamsters election corruption cases, as well as some of the United States largest cases of tax fraud, to name a few. Is there a fire . If there was or is a fire, how big is it . They are receiving millions of dollars of payments from foreign entities and individuals. What services, if any, were being provided . What was the substance of the alleged service being provided . Was money being paid for a fair amount with those services . What political favors are being treated . These are the questions that as a forensic accountant, i routinely ask, to hire and investigate allegations of corruption and fraud. There is a great deal of evidence that has been collected to answer these very questions. However, much more information is still needed, in order to be able to answer these questions, and make a final determination as to whether or not the President Joe Biden family and the associate businesses were involved in any improper or illicit activities. They are looking at if those activities, if any, were working with President Joe Biden, or others. We are purposely creating a labyrinth of limited Liability Companies to create an open network of entities, to hide improper conduct. These complex business arrangements are looking at it, and their moving money around the globe in a manner designed to avoid detection of the underlying illegal activities, as well as the movements of money tied to that illegal activity. This is a critical component of any fraud investigation. The company is like an empty shell. Shell companies have no employees, offices, or company businesses. These p. O. Boxes for mailing addresses. They can be used for legitimate activities. They are looking at fraudulent activities. They have tax evasion, Money Laundering, and other solicit practices. It takes a heavy lift to pull the covers back on the Show Companies to determine who the true Beneficial Owners are, where the money went, and to expose the true examination of their existence. They have a great deal of persistence. They have fraud investigations that can expose the identity of the wizards behind these curtains. This is the extent of their activities. This is all from us today before you reach any conclusions. The American People deserve the truth. They are concluding investigations. This should not be part of the political aspirations. They have any such investigations. They have many conclusions being reached. Thank you for the opportunity to being here today. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you very much. I want to thank the Ranking Members as well. From this committee, i appreciate the honor and a privilege to be able to appear before you today. We are talking about the basis for inquiries from President Joe Biden. I think it is a good place to begin. This is with the federal papers. This is all being worn. It is the dangers of looking at impeachment through petty partisanship. This is more or less friendly to the accused. In many cases, they will connect themselves with pre existing factions. They are trying to look at the other interests. This is on one side, or the other. In such cases, the decision will be regulated more by the relative strength of the parties. This is near innocence or guilt. I think he knew what he was talking about. I think he may well describe the current set of proceedings. One thing i might add to all of that, is that the frames designed for impeachment processes, are following or complying with several safeguards. It is important that we keep the safeguards in mind. These proceedings will go on. The first is the necessity. We are looking at credible evidence of the commission of treason, bribery, and other high crimes. At least not that i have yet heard, they have such credible evidence. Let me give you an example of what i fear is similar to the current proceedings. Hunter biden, is arrested for speeding in a car owned by his father. I dont think that is how the law should work. I dont think that is how impeachment should work. I am just a law professor and citizen. I come here with great. When speaking to an important body like this. I respect them a great deal. They have all of these facts. Hunter biden, was on the board. He was not qualified. It was nothing about President Joe Biden. They have executives who asked hunter biden for help. Again, not yet any proof about any kind of complicity. Lastly, President Joe Biden, gave a speech. If that what it is, it is a basis for this inquiry. I say that with all respect. I think that is part of the problem. I think that, and Many Americans think that. This is with respect to these proceedings. A second safeguard is the fifth amendment due process clause. It requires fundamental fairness. In these proceedings, something has happened to President Joe Biden. This was said to have happened to donald trump in 2019. That was that the burden has flipped. President joe biden, had to prove that he was innocent. Any further investigation is being done to ensure that President Joe Biden, had to prove his innocence. Rather than the committee was able to connect done to make sure that mr. Biden has to prove his innocence rather than the committee being able to connect the dots in a convincing way. It is not up to me to persuade, it is the American Peoples whose trust you deserve and have to maintain. A third principle is judicial review. May i remind the committee about the Supreme Court decision , the court said about this committee, in fact, it has to conduct an investigation for a legitimate purpose. A fishing expedition is not a legitimate purpose. Moreover, the court said, it is not a legitimate purpose for the house or a House Committee to be conducting the function of Law Enforcement. I heard many references to criminal misbehavior, whether or not somebody should be thrown in jail. Criticisms of the prosecutor, mr. Weiss, that sounds like an attempt to substitute for the proper, legitimate proceedings of the house. Two other safeguards, real quickly, these proceedings should be based on principle and not partisanship. I fear that what we are hearing today, which can be traced back to 2019, accusations made against joe biden as far back as the, is driven by partisan animus rather than by principal. The final safeguards for the full house to authorize an impeachment inquiry. That does not come from the. That comes from Speaker Mccarthy and mr. Trumps Justice Department who said the committee must be authorized by the full house. That has not happened. My concern is with the constitution. That is what my devotion is to and i hope all of us understand that there is nothing more serious than honoring our constitution and following the design of the framers gave us. I do want to state the fact, in 2019, the washington, d. C. District court said a vote of the full house was not required to commence an impeachment inquiry. We will begin the question and answer phase. We have 47 members here today that will ask questions. We will abide by the five minutes. I will begin, followed by Ranking Member, raskin, another mike savino targeting specific wires originated from beijing. Most of our Bank Subpoenas have been from joe biden Family Associates accounts resulting in bank records of thousands of pages, we identify these Bank Accounts based on suspicious activity reports filed with the Treasury Department after being flagged by the banks. The bank records obtained show that, on august second, 2019, jonathan lee in beijing sent hunter biden 250,000, listing joe bidens home address in wilmington, delaware, the wire stated it was for a personal investment. A second wire showed that, on july 26, 2019, ms. Shin sent 10,000, listing joe bidens home address. The 10,000 wire said it was a loan to beneficiary lets talk about the 250,000 personal investment. It looks like jonathan lee was making a substantial investment in the biden family after joe biden announced his run for the presidency in april of 2019. Who is jonathan lee . During the devon archer interview, he explained how Vice President biden developed a relationship with jonathan lee. Joe biden had coffee with jonathan lee in beijing. He talked with him on the phone and wrote a College Recommendation Letter for the children of mr. Lee. Hunter biden that with jonathan lee after flying on air force to with joe biden. The people cultivated a relationship for one reason only , to access their wealth. As we all know, the bidens had nothing to sell except the brand which was joe biden. Hunter biden sold the brand well, making the biden family millions from china and elsewhere. While joe biden was Vice President , hunter biden was an investor in a Chinese Investment fund with jonathan li and on the percentage of it through one of his many llcs, a political problem for his dad who was running for president. In october of 2019, two months after the biting wires, the lawyer hunter biden said he served only as a member of the board of directors as an unpaid position, he was in an unpaid position. They claimed the money was a documented loan from a private individual. These wire statements are concerning and the defenders of the biden family justification is not consistent from what we know from the treasury. Mr. Dubinsky, i am skeptical that a quarter Million Dollars payment from jonathan li and another woman was a loan because the wire states it was a personal investment. We have reviewed documents from the treasury that do not support the theory. In your experience are International Loans of this amount supported by documentations such as loan terms, interest rates, and repayment schedules . Yes. They typically would be. You would see documents setting forth the interest rates, all of those things. Absolutely. Would it be important to review the bank records of hunter biden to see if he pay back the money to jonathan li , or so the money to someone else, i dont know, using a cashiers check . As somebody mentioned, it is important to follow the money. That is very important in the situation. Professor turley, we know this was selling the biden brand we have shown that the biden family and their Companies Receive more than 15 million without providing any known legitimate services between 2014 and 2019. If you include the Business Associates of their companies, they received over 24 million. Based on evidence we have developed so far, one of the potential loss we should be analyzing during our impeachment inquiry . Thank you, mr. Chairman. I lay out what are the most obvious potential articles of impeachment without saying those have been established. The ones i recommend or the ability to focus on, one thing i recommend that the Committee Start by looking at potential crimes. I have said that in the past, too, it is an important thing to frontload criminal acts for the reasons i laid out. It gives a very High Standard for impeachment. Higher than it is binding, you can impeach for noncriminal conduct. I suggest starting there. As i talk about in my testimony , bribery, obstruction, conspiracy, use of power, those have all been raised in past impeachments. Abuse of power is the article that is very common, it is a catchall. It is the one i have been a little bit uncomfortable with and why i suggest you end there. Because that brings in a lot of noncriminal conduct and you need to focus as much as you can on the evidence and whether you can establish these connections. I will recognize mr. Raskin of maryland. Professor gerhardt, have there ever been an impeachment process launched in the middle of a Government Shutdown . No. Why did the office of Legal Counsel opined that there must be a vote of the full house before a committee launches into an impeachment investigation . Why did Speaker Mccarthy insist and say that there would be one in this case . I think the office of Legal Counsel said that, at least in part, because an impeachment inquiry is deadly serious. Again, just about the most serious thing in the House Committee ever undertakes. One safeguard against a committee acting on the basis of the Party Membership is to ensure that the full house is behind the impeachment inquiry. A dozen of our colleagues on the republican side have already called for impeachment. I was struck by the fact that, of the four Expert Witnesses brought together today, not a single one of them argued that a sufficient quantum of evidence exists today to justify the impeachment of President Joe Biden. Is there any president for launching an impeachment inquiry absent evidence of wrongdoing by the president . No. I would point out that Richard Nixon and bill clinton, President Trump in 2019, the full house authorized the impeachment inquiries. A letter was sent to us, addressed to chairman comer, the narrative you are seeking for this investigation has been proven false many times over by a wide array of respected sources. There is simply no merit to investigating this matter any further. He says, please abandoned this effort to investigate the biden family, which is nothing more than a wild goose chase. He was the righthand man of Rudy Giuliani gallivanting all over the world to put a case together in 2019 that joe biden had done something wrong. Do you agree that, given that the evidence we have looked at over eight months, it comes down to this discredited Conspiracy Theory and we should hear from those responsible for concocting the story in the first case in the first place, specifically about Rudy Giuliani . Absolutely. What about the fact that, the very first act of the committee in the impeachment investigation was to reject the idea of subpoenaing Rudy Giuliani who are at the heart of the story that is the basis for impeachment . I think, if there will be an investigation into the president , all the evidence, all the participants, anyone that has knowledge should be spoken to. We have a lot of colleagues on this committee and off the committee, who have called for the impeachment of joe biden, who also voted against impeaching donald trump for inciting a violent insurrection against the union. Hundreds of people have gone to jail in subsidiary ask under the umbrella of that insurrectionary process. Can you come up with a theory that would allow someone to say , i am going to vote to impeach joe biden for offenses unstated and evidence unknown, but i will oppose and vote against the impeachment of donald trump for inciting a violent interaction against the union, something that concurrent bipartisan majorities voted for in the house and senate. . I cannot, as a law professor, one of the things i suggest to my students in trying to assess the constitutionality of any governmental action take the names out, switch the names, see if the outcome is the same. If joe biden has incited a violent insurrection against the unit as safe fight like hell, would you consider that to be in Impeachable Offense . Absolutely. To your mind, in applying the law to the facts, have you seen any evidence that joe biden has done anything remotely comparable to what donald trump did which him his impeachment in the bipartisan vote in the house . I have not done with all due respect, i heard the phrase, biden family many times, i dont know who the biden family is. I do not know who is being referenced. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, i would like to move for unanimous consent to introduce the july 18, 2023 letter to you and me and the rest of the committee into the official record. Without objection, so ordered. We recognize jason smith from missouri for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. It is amazing to be sitting on your committee and a pleasure to be here. Yesterday, we had a committee release over 700 pages of documents that came from the two irs whistleblowers. Based on the last oversight hearing, when they presented, before this committee, where members, republican and democrat, asked for Additional Information, they provided it and we brought it forward. What was interesting, the other side of the aisle, actually mentioned donald trump a lot more than they ever mentioned joe biden. It is happening over here, too. It is consistent in the ways and Means Committee and the Oversight Committee. Ms. Oconnor, yesterday, the ways and Means Committee voted to release Additional Information provided by gary shapley and Joseph Ziegler , one of the documents shows that the assistant u. S. Attorney, leslie wolf, ordered investigators not to pursue leads into possible Campaign Finance violations. We know that over 2 million of Hunter Bidens tax liabilities were paid off by a Big Democrat Party donor and a hollywood lawyer. Named kevin morris. James biden, the brother of the president , told investigators that he did not know how hunter biden even knew this individual. But was later asked to thank him for the payment, on behalf of the family. The biden family. The family. So, how would such payment, that essentially pushed under the rug the president s sons tax problems, at least for one year, be considered a Campaign Finance violation on part of the Biden Campaign . Thank you for the question. I have no idea. I thought you were going to ask me, why would leslie wolf say dont look into that . I think the answer to that is probably, if it is a campaign contribution, it implicates political person number one, and that apparently is a big barrier that had been created throughout this entire investigation. As far as it being a campaign contribution, that to me those was intended to satisfy the liabilities my two years of the hunter biden file of unpaid taxes. Is it unusual for an assistant prosecutor to say do not look at this individual, this person, they are off limits . That is how investigations develop, the agents follow the leads wherever they take them. In this case, a legitimate investigation was being done of money that was being paid and for the assistant u. S. Attorney, who is orchestrating the investigation to say, do not look at that anymore, i think the reason is related to another instruction of hers, she did not want to get Public Integrity involved which tells us she was looking beyond hunter biden and into a person whose activities would be subject to Public Integrity at doj. Because you worked tax division for doj, if kevin morris gave a gift of 2 million to help pay off Hunter Bidens debts, who has to report that on their taxes . Hunter biden or mr. Morse . The parties are claiming it is a loan, and hunter biden pay the back . Would it have to be reported on tax records . If it is a loan, no, but i have not seen the documentation. I am sure that is what mr. Dubinsky can tell you, calling something a loan is something people used to claimant is not taxable income. We uncovered, yesterday, that the biden Family Associates received over 20 million from 23 Different Countries that they had business ties to, or communications with, and also they had 20 shell llcs where they would transfer money in and out. If you were still sitting in her office in the Doj Tax Division, with this web of entities and activities concern you . I would make sure that my prosecutors were concerned about it. Thank you. We recognize ms. Norton from the district of columbia. Thank you. Professor gerhardt , pleased to have you with us. In your testimony, you referenced Alexander Hamiltons warning about the dangers of trivializing impeachment. Through petty partisanship. Let me ask you, mr. Gerhardt , do you think that initiating an impeachment inquiry against President Biden without any evidence of wrongdoing by the president meets any basis standard of proof . Not credible proof at all. In my opinion. In fact, one thing to keep in mind about a hearing like this, critical importance of Building Public trust. That gets built in part on the basis of credible evidence. Professor gerhardt , what is the risk to our constitution and even for the rule of law if impeachments are initiated without any evidence of wrongdoing by a president . They trivialize impeachment. They trivialize the constitution. They ride roughshod over the rule of law. Nothing good comes from abusing a power, whether done by a president or by congress. Professor gerhardt , do you believe that initiating an impeachment inquiry without any evidence of wrongdoing by a president is consistent with the rule with the view that impeachment is a great and solemn duty . Impeachment is a grave and solemn duty, which means the evidence regarding burisma should be heard and that would give credibility to what the committee is doing. I will add that it is incredible we are holding this sham hearing two days before the government will shut down. Instead of this hearing, we could be discussing how to form a government or we could discuss ideas to exempt federal Government Shutdowns and federal and independent agencies that are exclusively or primarily federally funded but have jurisdiction over local civil and criminal justice matters. Or we could be discussing how we are going to provide back pay to federal contract workers if republicans do push us into a shutdown. Instead, we are holding this sham hearing. I yield the remainder of my time to mr. Raskin. Thank you for that. Mr. Comer referred to a 2019 wire to hunter biden while President Biden was not in office. He was a private citizen and so was hunter biden, hunter biden has never held Public Office. Mr. Smith referenced a doj email from 2020, during the Donald Trump Administration, professor gerhardt, what do you make of the idea of impeaching a president while he is in office for something that his son did, or may have received, when the president was not in office . It is not consistent with the american legal system imagine if the names are switched. Imagine if this is Jared Kushner. Mr. Smith spoke about 20 million for hunter biden, that he received, put in the names of different family members. I think the Washington Post debunked that this weekend, saying it was 8 million or 9 million, but lets say it was 20 million, 1 of the 2 billion that was brought back by Jared Kushner from saudi arabia to accompany Jared Kushner created a day after the Donald Trump Administration ended. If there were no other evidence, would it be fair to attribute that to Million Dollars that Jared Kushner pocketed with the 25 million Management Fee every year, would it be fair to attribute all of that to donald trump because it is his soninlaw . Not without any evidence. Because the principle of american law is people are responsible for their own conduct and not the conduct of their adult children, is that right . That is correct. I yield back. The chair recognizes mr. Jordan from ohio. Mr. Gerhardt, it was in a speech, he leveraged 1 billion of american tax money at a time when the government was supportive of the prosecutor. Here is what our government said, the assistant secretary of state, we have been impressed with the ambitious reform and anticorruption agenda of your government, written to the prosecutor general who joe biden leverages our money to give fired. The United States fully support your effort to fight corruptions, she further, the Interagency Policy Committee said this on october 1st, 2015. The ipc recommends moving forward with the third Loan Guarantee to ukraine in the near term. Even after joe biden gives the speech, on december 9th, the European Commission said, there were reports that anticorruption benchmark is deemed to have been achieved for ukraine. But the most telling evidence is what his Business Partner said, devon archer, when we deposed him under oath two months ago said this, here is the question, the request was helped from the United States government to deal with the pressure they were under from the prosecutor. You know what the response was, that is correct. Next question, what did hunter biden do after he was given the request . He called his dad. That is what we are investigating, that is one of the three things professor turley talked about, the influence peddling scheme i want to go to those three things, false statement includes peddling schemes and joe biden may have benefited the third one first, is a benefit your family, can it benefit your family be a benefit to you . It is. There has been a repeated statement that you need to show that the president excepted direct money in order for this to constitute a benefit, even under criminal cases, the deal with bribery and extortion, the hobbs act, the courts have rejected that and said that money going to family members is in fact a benefit. I do not see any legal basis for that the strongest case is obviously if you have a direct payment. But, this idea that you can have millions going to a politicians family, and that is not a benefit, i think is pretty fallacious. How about the false claims . You said, to the extent the president this is a little broader, to the extent the president use the white house staff to maintain false claims or resist disclosures, it can fit into the type of nixon type abuse power model. We know all kinds of false statements have been made by the white house, joe biden has made them, said it was a last question when they asked if he has ever spoke to a sons Business Partner, we know that was false, somebody said the president s confidence son did not break the law, the press secretary said, never spoke to his son about his overseas business dealings, what you think about those false statements from the white house in this abuse of power issue . The involvement of white house staff and executive branch staff have been a tripwire we saw in nixon and some extent even bill clinton, the degree to which you would list support for a false narrative or to obstruct congress can go into things like abuse of power one of the things i suggested is that, if you look at past impeachment inquiries, once again, this is an inquiry to find evidence, we are not voting on articles of impeachment, those allegations tend to develop last. You look at what you have found. How about the attorney general i am concerned about statements he made, march 1st, 2023 in front of the senate, he was asked about the investigation of mr. Weiss, he said, mr. Weiss has full authority to bring cases in other jurisdictions if he feels it is necessary. Last week, the attorney general told us that weiss had the authority because i promised him he would have the authority if he asked. That seems to be something different. What he said to the senate, he has full authority, no problem, last week he told the House Judiciary Committee he had authority because i promised, if you would talk to me, i would give him authority that already told the senate he had, do you see concerned with false statements coming from the biden Justice Department . There is a concern, you dont have to prejudge the evidence to say this is part of the inquiry. What i dont understand is the opposition to the inquiry itself. It seems to me that the test is , what the alleged conduct, if proven, establish Impeachable Offenses are correct and is there a credible basis for those allegations . I think the answer is clearly yes, there is a basis to look at the president s conduct without prejudging whether that it qualifies at the beginning of that inquiry as an article of impeachment. You dont need a full vote of the house to proceed in an impeachment inquiry. In fact, the democrats did it four years ago, i was at an impeachment deposition run by adam schiff in the basement of the capitol and i went to the floor, i am an impeachment deposition and i went to the floor to vote on opening an impeachment inquiry. They did the same thing because you have that authority as a congress, when the speaker of the house makes that designation. Speaker nancy pelosi did initiate the impeachment and in some cases you have a later vote. I have said that i considered that the best practice, to have a vote of the house. But the court that was referenced earlier looked at this and said the constitution does not require a resolution. If you look at all the impeachments, often there was a resolution, does not mean it is not a Good Practice but the constitution itself does not require such a resolution. We recognize mr. Lynch. The experts do bring expertise, but they do not bring the facts or evidence. None of you can illustrate actions by the president with respect to this inquiry. Ms. Oconnor, you said you written a commentary, you would go to prison or what joe biden did come you mean, for what hunter biden did. I was cutting downwards. That is an important word you left out. I regretted it immediately. I would like to enter it into the record. You would go to prison for what hunter biden did. That is an important word. I did delete it intentionally. Reclaiming my time. When i walked into this hearing room, my first question was, where is Rudy Giuliani . This is supposed to be an inquiry on the facts against the president for potentially an impeachment. Articles of impeachment. The one person, the one person, who was an agent of President Trump was sent to ukraine to dig up dirt, find some dirt on joe biden. Just like he said to the Election Officials in georgia, find me 11,780 votes. Find me dirt on joe biden. And we do not have him here. We are not allowed to ask him questions. Professor gerhardt , would it not be helpful to have a factual witness here who was let me just read from an excerpt of the call between donald trump and the ukrainian president. He says, rudy very much knows what is happening, he is a very capable guy, if you could speak to him, that would be great. The other thing, a lot of talk about joe bidens son, that he stop the prosecution, people want to find out, what you could do with the attorney general would be great. He is actually placing Rudy Giuliani in ukraine with the imprimatur of authority over the president. Would not that be a useful witness . It seems obvious he should be brought before the committee. You would think so. We have a lot of allegations. I have heard about emails from hunter biden from china, hunter biden cashed in the irs interview with james biden, i hear a lot about the biden family. This is an impeachment inquiry about President Biden. I would try to discern what the allegations are for the president because they are nonexistent at this point. Is there a reason the other question, why hasnt Rudy Giuliani, if he was such a key witness and on the ground with direct authority from the present, why isnt he here . I think, professor gerhardt , maybe you could talk about this, Rudy Giuliani also lost 60 cases, he brought 60 cases across United States with respect to the big lie, he was the midwife of the big lie, he brought 60 cases and lost them all for lack of evidence. I believe that hurts his credibility, does it not . It does, his credibility has been hurt in a number of different ways. He also made allegations against the Voting Machines and being sued by them because he falsely declared that those machines were unfairly helping President Biden . That is right. Wouldnt that lead to a drop in credibility on behalf of mr. Giulianis testimony . I agree with you and would say, because Rudy Giuliani is a lawyer, he has to abide and comply with the rules of professional conduct and he is in trouble because he has not. We recognize the chairman of the house intelligence committee, mr. Turner from ohio. Thank you so much for the materials you provided, your legal analysis, mr. Turley, is incredible and historic and the legal descriptions of the aspects of, how do you conduct an impeachment investigations, what are the standards for an impeachment investigation, and taking some of the public facts that you are aware of and comparing them to Congressional Authority and oversight responsibilities. It does help the overall discussion and gives validity to the need for this committee to move forward on the investigation as you look historically what has happened. You made some comments in your Opening Statement about your description that i think are important to focus on in trying to guide our investigation. You said it is not criminal for a president or Vice President to light. You also said that it is not criminal that hunter biden received someone pays the child of the Vice President for doing nothing is not necessarily criminal, not your words, my words you said that taking official actions to benefit individuals of a third party to induce them to financially benefit your family would be a crime. Is that correct . It is. If you look at the treaties and sources i cited, the United States has for years combated influence peddling as a prototypical form of public corruption. Much influence peddling follows that pattern. Many people now except that, what hunter biden did was rather wrong and open influence peddling. The only question is, was the president involved in that . I am not prejudging that. There is an argument that you hear, they were just selling the illusion of access. The fact is, you have to ask yourself one question, how do you know . Even if you accept that selling the illusion of access is not misconduct, how do you know . That is where i will go next. There is another concerning aspect of President Joe Bidens actions as Vice President for which there is currently an active criminal investigation, that is his misuse of classified documents. There has been appointed by the department of justice, the attorney general, a special prosecutor for the purposes of investigating the federal crimes that could have arisen as a result from this president s misuse of classified documents that he had them at the center for diplomacy and Global Engagement under wilmington, delaware private residence of joe biden. Places where there were other people in one of those other people happens to be hunter biden. This committee in its scope of this investigation indicates that these classified materials are also relevant because the Oversight Committee has requested information regarding the classified materials discovered in the president s home where his son has resided during the time relevant to the investigation and personal office. But the white house has not provided this information. Obviously, his son was receiving payments from romania, russia, ukraine, china. If there are in those documents, documents relating to the prosecutor in ukraine, or burisma itself, or other aspects of ukraine, or any parties or individuals that were making payments to hunter biden, that would be relevant . It would be relevant. One of the things i address in my testimony, the most concerning line for me in this inquiry is preoffice conduct. What i say is that there should be a type of rebuttable presumption against bringing in preoffice conduct. But there is precedent he was in office because he would not have access to classified documents. He had these documents given to him. In his scope as senator and as Vice President , there has been a lot of talk that perhaps the present inadvertently ended up with these documents. There is an unbelievable amount of documents and he is a quarter and was mishandling them. Can you infer intent by knowledge of the law . President biden knows how to handle classified documents and knows what mishandling is. Wouldnt that be in tribute to his intent . That can all go to a question of establishing intent. In these cases you do not have a confession. I am not sure if the documents matter will become relevant to an impeachment inquiry. I have said earlier that the issue that concerns me about the documents is that they were distributed to different sources it appears. They went to different locations. There are accounts of being in the president s home. Were they divided and why . It is not clear whether that would amount to an Impeachable Offense. You would have to take that next step, these documents are a threat to National Security. We have to get to the bottom of why was he taking these and what was he doing with them . Consent motion. I ask unanimous consent to interest page 131 of the transcript of devon archers testimony where the question is asked, but he did not provide the burisma executives with access to his father, that was an illusion mac benjamin is out of order, you will have time in your five minutes and we recognize mr. Connolly. Is an admitted . I object to the clock is ticking. Mr. Goldman is taking her time. You are taking time away from me unfairly. Distract, deflect, hold onto those two words, distract and deflect. I think this hearing is about, look over here, not over there. Professor gerhardt , i have heard concerns about branding. Shouldnt we be concerned about all of the biden towers all over the world where foreign partnerships were formed and influence was used here in the United States . I have seen these towers in indonesia, the philippines, turkey, i even saw one in chicago. Shouldnt that be a source of concern of this committee in terms of influence foreign and domestic . If there were such things as biden buildings was there anyone who did have them . We all know. Could you tell us . If were talking about mr. Trump thank you. When President Biden appointed his son to manage u. S. Foreign policy in the persian gulf and the middle east, by the way, a son who could not qualify for getting a security clearance but President Biden granted it anyhow. After leaving the white house, getting a 2 million deal. We are told by mr. Dubinsky, follow the money, especially foreign money. Should that be of concern that there was a sweetheart deal which occurred with the blessing of the president with foreign money and should we look into hunter biden for that, given the fact that happened . It should have had concern with President Trump and his soninlaw. I got that wrong again. I am sorry. I heard again, i think it was professor turley, he is not prejudging, of course, he is just suggesting, that maybe we want to look into criminal activity like obstruction, fraud , and abuse of power. Lets take fraud. Shouldnt we be concerned that a new york judge just found President Bidens organization committing fraud every year for the last 10 or 15 years . And under the martin law in new york that Biden Organization is subject to dismemberment, dismantling because of fraudulent activity . That should be of concern with respect to mr. Trump. Mr. Trump again. And a judge actually made the ruling . Yes, sir. Should we be concerned about the personal while we are at it, shouldnt we be concerned about the personal behavior of the president . For example, President Biden, being found guilty of Sexual Assault and defamation associated with that activity in a civil court, in this case in new york . We should be concerned as it relates to mr. Trump. Mr. Trump again. I just think that, one of the reasons we are here is because somebody has been indicted in four different locales for four different sets of concerns with , i think, 81, 91 actual counts. And has been found guilty in two civil proceedings, one involving sexual behavior. And one on actual corporate, fraudulent activity. We dont want to talk about any of that but we want to speculate about discredited testimony from discredited witnesses like Rudy Giuliani. Who we are afraid to subpoena. That is what this is all about. This is about our need to defend joe biden, that is not what this is about, this is about their need that we get off topic and no longer talk about the pending, criminal trials of the former president of United States. If anything is worthy of examination, that is, not this i yelled back. We recognize mr. Donald. Point of order. We recognize mr. Donalds. You are out of order, mr. Goldman. The chair recognizes mr. Donalds for five minutes. The rules require you to recognize me. No for a point of order they do. I request the clock be set back to five minutes. Can i make a parliamentary inquiry, are we not to make points of order you keep speaking about no evidence, just listen. I am trying to introduce evidence. You have had your share of evidence. Mr. Donalds, five minutes. Thank you. Mr. Dubinsky, a lot of talk about evidence, on the screens we have an organizational chart from the irs investigated team looking into the Business Practices of hunter biden and his associates. This chart is from 2014. Mr. Dubinsky, in my former life, i was in community banking. I am comfortable with looking at organizational charts when i first saw this chart, i first thought about a Real Estate Holding company or a developer, this is not to demean developers, but developers typically have multiple companies that float with very different business interest is and different lines. In the business dealings of hunter biden, there is no real estate. None at all. Mr. Dubinsky, in your experience, looking at this organizational chart of Business Structure, what do you see here back a very competent the structure of entities interrelated and would give me concern if i were an investigator. I would want to know what is going on, who is behind these, how is the money moving between them, and what is the substance of the transactions, what is really going on . Is in the interest of this committee, now in the inquiry phase, to find out all of the flow of money between these entities and what the purpose was . Absolutely. Next slide, please. We will talk evidence. This is the slide of the organizational chart of the hunter biden business and business companies, and with associates, from 2018, for the same irs investigators who were broken down the Business Structure in 2014. Does this cause you the same concern . Yes. Lets talk about more, one point i want to make, ladies and german i know it is kind of small so i will submit this for the record and love my colleagues on the other side to see this, in 2014, one of the key owners was devon archer, who did testify and under deposition under oath by the Oversight Committee. In 2018, devon archer is no longer listed on his but his wife is listed. When you see a situation where ownership interest moves from one spouse to the other, is that a concern of some level of fraud potentially . I would call it a red flag. That is something i would look at and try to get to the bottom of what happened, was there money behind it, what was going on . Next slide. This is a text message between gog to naomi biden. Let me get my stuff back. Sorry. A text message between jim biden and hunter, it says that we can talk later, you have been drawn into something purely for the purpose of protecting dad. This is between hunter and jim biden. Last time i checked the father has passed away, i am assuming this is hunter biden saying to jim, you have been brought in for the sole purpose of protecting dad. Ms. Oconnor, should this committee get further information about the business dealings of hunter biden and how that links to jim biden, the brother of the president , and why they are so concerned with protecting dad, aka, joe biden, the president of the United States . Yes. Thank you. This is a text message between hunter biden and naomi biden. This is famous, this is a famous one that says, i hope you all do what i did and pay for everything for this entire family for 30 years, it is really hard, but dont worry, unlike pop, i will not make you give me half your salary. Mr. Dubinsky, if you saw a text message like this in a potential Money Laundering or pay for play operation, would you be looking for information related to money going from son to father . Absolutely. Without a doubt. Thank you. Next slide. Is is fun. Isis from 2018. This is oufour months before joe biden launched his campaignfopresident of United States, ceer 2018, the highlight is, a text message between jim den and hunter. Hunter was really strung out, have lost money, needed help, jim said, this can work, you need a safe harbor, i can work with your father alone, it will probably take several months. If you saw a text message between the brother of the president and his son, wouldnt you be concerned about them trying to give plausible deniability for the president of United States to not have any knowledge of said business dealings . It is worth investigating. I would agree, i would investigate. I yelled back. Before i do this, mr. Goldman, i will give you the opportunity and recognize you for your point of order. I just want to make sure that page 131 of the transcript of the devon archer interview is entered into the record. Without objection, so ordered. Thank you. Hunter biden is a private citizen and not a federal official, correct . Yes. A special counsel investigating hunter biden recently indicted him for various illegal acts. I have the indictment in my hand. Nowhere in the indictment of hunter biden is the allegation of joe biden having committed wrongdoing. That is correct. Not a parking ticket, not a moving violation, not a high crime or misdemeanor. On page 19 of your with a statement that you submitted you said, the Current Record does not establish any crime, let alone unImpeachable Offense. Lets further explore what has been established about joe biden. The hill said marco rubio said House Republicans are discussing and appeasement corby to obtain evidence of criminal behavior they have not been able to dig up through the house Oversight Committee. He said that setting up a special impeachment counsel without strong evidence of a crime could trivialize the process. Senator rubio is a republican, right . Yes, sir. Lets talk about what this evident is and if it exists. Our colleague, a Senior Member of the judiciary committee, said the following regarding evidence linking President Biden to an alleged crime, that does not exist right now. Ken buck is republican, correct . Yes. Met romney said, there has not been in the allegation yet, any conduct which reaches the constitutional standard for impeachment. Mitt romney is a republican . Yes. Ms. Oconnor, i have a poster of an entry from your professional linkedin account. There is your picture, it says law office of eileen j. Oconnor. We printed what you posted one week ago which says the Biden Administration is promoting and enabling the invasion, that is what your post says, right . Yes. It goes on to say, if this does not stop quickly, the entire usa will be invaded with millions of military age the men from many Different Countries who are ready to cause total havoc while getting paid 2200 per month in welfare to do so. Did i write that . You reposted it. And said it was a engineer that spiral. May i respond . When i am done with my question demolition of United States of america. Maam, another posting from your professional linkedin account and lc michigan telethon to raise money for 16 alternate electors. That is your professional account . It is. Mr. Turley, professor, in 2006, you wrote an oped in the guardian entitled, stop persecuting polygamists. You like and polygamists to persecuted minorities and you said polygamy is a practice with deep and goodfaith religious meaning. Represented the sister wives , a family in challenging a polygamy prosecution. The answer is yes. You have been crusading for legalizing polygamy for years and in an op ed in usa today, you set a utah polygamist named tom greene, convicted of pedophilia for raping his 13yearold stepdaughter should not have been charged with polygamy. Can i respond because that is not accurate . I criticized him, but i was dealing with was the constitutionality of what is called morals legislation, and i admit i am really libertarian, whether the government can pose a moral code on people. Mr. Chairman, mr. Chairman, we are counting down the hours until a Government Shutdown and we have a hearing where we have one witness who defended a polygamist who is convicted of pedophilia and rape, and another witness linkedinwith accounts with extreme views posted. Unfortunately, this speaks to the credibility of the witnesses and the credibility of this impeachment inquiry. I yield back. Point of order. Mr. Chairman, when a member of the committee impugns the integrity of a witness, is against the rules to allow those to respond to malicious statements . I am asking i am not asking you, i am asking the chairman. Asking for a ruling. He can use his own time to question any witness he wants. I was recognized on a point of order. Point of order. The way we have always proceeded i asked for a ruling on my point of order. Mr. Chairman okay, the witness has the opportunity to address that during a line of questioning. If mr. Turley wants to address that during a number member line of questioning, he can do that. We are on the fiveminute clock. The chair recognizes ms. Mace. In 2013, mr. Raskin said , there is no formal constitutional or statutory, even house rule for help and impeachment inquiry is to begin. It means Different Things to different people i dont want to hear another word from the left or on the other side of the aisle about impeachment inquiries, this is total hypocrisy this morning. Today, we will bring the facts, today, we will bring the evidence, in 2017, the joe biden family teamed up with chinese companies, to make millions off of granting access to joe biden and hunter arrange for joe biden Share Office Space with the company. My democrat colleagues say none of this is relevant because joe biden was not Vice President Wallace Family did that shady deals. Turns out, that is complete and total he referred access to his father as keys to the families only access, those words will come back and haunt hunter biden. And his family forever. Yesterday, the ways and Means Committee sent a memo on the interview they had with a man, a former joe biden partner in crime, i will read a bit, the work conducted by the company, james biden, r the preceding two years was discus company was closing significant investment deals in poland, extended, romania, and the middle eastng this time. The time is period of time is in reference to the years 2015 and 2016 when joe biden was Vice President and as an aside rob walker in previous testimony confirmed that he had a meeting with the head of cefc and they were working with the biden family while he was Vice President and i will continue reading from tonys report which says, hunter and james biden didnt receive compensation because he was still Vice President during this time period. There is concern it would be improper for payments to be made to hunter biden and james biden by cefc due to its close affiliation with the chinese government. Hunter and james biden both wanted to be compensated for the assistance they provided to their ventures and, in particular, they believe cefc owed the money for the benefits that occurred through the use of the biden family name to advance their business dealings. The bidens, coincidentally were paid over 1 million by ccp affiliated, a chinese company, cefc, shortly after he left office as Vice President. We now know why because it was back pay. I will show another image, a text message from hunter biden and an agent of cefc. Hunter says my uncle will be here with his brother and all caps and we would like to say hello to the chairman. He goes on, jims brother wants to say hello. His brother. I wonder who it can be. Hunter puts brother and all caps and it doesnt take a genius to figure this out, but since i am not always dealing with geniuses in washington dc that has been illustrated today, so i will spell it out. The brother of hunters uncle is joe biden. Why was hunter so secretive about his father . It is because joe biden didnt want the American People to know that he and his family were getting paid millions and millions of dollars from a company closely tied to the Chinese Communist party. Cefc knew that pain biden family members was bad, so they covered it up. Hunter knew that joe biden hanging out with Chinese Businessman would be a bad look so we tried to pull a genius move with this whole my uncles brother stuff so betraying your country is treason and mr. Chairman i asked to enter into the record this text message and the fbi memo regarding their interview with Tony Bobulinski showing bidens connections during this Vice President position. In your experience two people conducting legitimate business usually go through these efforts and hoops to keep their foreign entanglements hidden . Yes. The issue with influence peddling is it can in some circumstances be legal, but it isnt something that is necessarily made public and the public doesnt buy into the idea that you can sell your family brand if it is influence peddling. What happens with that is that you often have the commission of crimes to conceal it and to take steps so that it isnt public which may include, but not necessarily the reason, but may include, failure to pay taxes or register as a Foreign Agent and part of the purpose of an inquiry is to see if there is a link between those and more importantly a link to the president. Can i briefly respond to the earlier attack and you may have questions. The gentlelady is overtime but we will work with you on that because i do think you need to respond to that ridiculous statement. The chair recognizes for five minutes. Mr. Turley, you testified in your written statement about best practices for the house and you say it isnt legally required for the house to vote or have an impeachment inquiry but it is the best practice this. Can you explain why it is a best practice to have that boat . Vote . The court said it isnt required so it isnt a condition for the initiation of an inquiry but it is a Good Practice, whether it occurs after the initiation and still a vote of the entire house brings the solemnity and weight to this and it is one of the best practice this is i suggested in my testimony. What would it mean if the votes werent there . Hypothetically if they had a vote and 10 or 20 people voted for it and you are a student of constitutional history. What would that say . Why it is important in your view to have majority support for Something Like this . I think the public expects members to take this process seriously. Part of that is to go on the record whether you believe it is grounds for an inquiry. In terms of the best practices, i think it gives the weight of the house to the effort. And i do criticize the move of Speaker Pelosi it would give you pause if there was a vote that said the house didnt think there should be an inquiry . You would give that weight as a constitutional scholar . If the house as the body said there shouldnt be an inquiry, clearly, on the merits of the inquiry, it has some weight. It would be your recommendation to Speaker Mccarthy today to bring up that boat, correct, for a house inquiry . I have always said it is a Good Practice. In your recommendation to him today is bring the boat to the house floor . I always think it is a good idea. It would be her testimony based on what you said that if that vote failed, that should have some real consideration in whether we go forward with this . My view is they dont have the votes and i think it will be a lopsided vote against it. That is why they are not bringing it to the floor. I cant speak to that. You also said i dont believe the Current Evidence would support articles of impeachment. I want to be careful because you said you think it supports an inquiry but not the articles of impeachment. I do want to be precise in what you said. Can you explain to the committee and country why you believe the Current Evidence doesnt support the articles of impeachment today . At the moment, these are allegations. There is some credible evidence there that is the basis of the allegations. I understand that and not questioning that. You dont think, today if you are going to vote, if you were to vote, you would vote no . And if somebody said to you why are you voting not to impeach President Biden based on this evidence, where do you think the evidence is lacking . Where does it not rise to the level where you think it needs to be . What are the things missing . I said in my testimony the key here that the committee has to drill down on is whether they can establish a linkage with the influence peddling which is a form of corruption and the present, whether he participated or encouraged it, we simply dont know and we dont even know if this was that are not and you cant find the answers. The back end of these financial transactions, which i have read is where the committee is going may shed light on that but without that type of nexus, then i dont. Nexus is not been established . I think that is the purpose of the inquiry, correct. Would you agree with the op ed in the Washington Post where he basically would be a lopsided vote against it that that evidence doesnt exist . I did. I respect members of both parties that can stand alone and he has his reasons for that. I personally think the threshold for an inquiry has been surpassed and you do have a duty to imply risk to these allegations. That is not presupposing what you will find. It is your formal recommendation to the speaker to have a boat on the inquiry and also your testimony today that you would vote no on impeachment on the Current Evidence . When Speaker Pelosi took this step, gave the same advice. I think it is a best practice to go to the floor. The chairman recognizes ms. Mclane for five minutes. Before i start with my line of questioning, i want to make two comments. First, professor, i loved the analogy you used about the speeding ticket with hunter biden and let me see if you agree with this. If a criminal pulls the trigger for a murder he is guilty, right . And we can prove it. But dont you also agree with me that if somebody ordered that hit, we would charge him too . It is interesting you dont use that analogy. That is number one. It doesnt fit the narrative. Number two, i am amazed and i love the fact that trump lives rentfree in the democrats heads every day and that is a beautiful thing, even though we are here talking about the impeachment inquiry of joe biden. With that said, i want to talk about the damning evidence of joe bidens role in his familys business schemes in romania. While joe biden was president , he was directly involved in the United States policy and anticorruption efforts in romania. That is a fact. On may 21 of 2014, then Vice President biden delivered and anticorruption speech in romania. On september 28 of 2015, the president visited with the then Vice President biden and the romanian president visited with the then Vice President biden at the white house to discuss anticorruption efforts, right . We have a theme of corruption. Anticorruption. A corrupt romanian oligarch in the subject of a criminal probe and prosecution for corruption and bribery in romania and this committee has reviewed transactions showing that the biden family received money from a Foreign Company run by this Russian Oligarch gabriel popovich and five weeks after the romanian president visited with Vice President biden, popovich began paying hunter biden and his associates, rob walker, through his company and the money is deposited directly into Robinson Walker llc. And this is directly operated by hunters known and then the biden family account received more than 1 million from Robinson Walkers account after these deposits were made. Ironically, 16 of the 17 payments occurred while joe biden was Vice President. I think most americans would find it suspicious that, ironically, these payments ended shortly after joe biden left office and another coincidence. Mr. Chairman, i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record of the Oversight Committee may 10, 2023 Second Bank Record Memorandum showing his involvement in the familys business schemes in romania. Without objection, so ordered. I see three problems here while joe biden is touting these anticorruption efforts in romania, hunter biden is employed by a corrupt romanian oligarch which is interesting and in direct violation, hunter biden meets with the United States ambassador to romania while being paid by gabriel popovich. What was hunter biden selling to the romanian oligarchs for millions of dollars . I would still like to see a contract of that. Professor turley, i know i am almost out of time, you previously said hunter biden could be charged under the Foreign Agent registration act and can you explain why . Piece please feel free to ask the question. Most of the conduct described in these disclosures does seem to fit with what we saw in the charges of Paul Manafort in terms of being a Foreign Agent and some of this appears to be that type of lobbying on the part of hunter biden and the failure to register as an agent would conceal that but thats not the motivation behind it. The question is should he have registered as a Foreign Agent during the course of misconduct and it seems to be looking at the Paul Manafort indictment that there is considerable overlap in terms of the type of action taken. Perhaps it is a twotiered justice system. May ask unanimous consent to enter the chart into the record . So ordered. Five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I didnt plan to but i would like to follow up on the gentlewomans comments and assertions about romania and hunter biden and the fact that he worked for a romanian executive facing corruption charges. Problem with that is that Rudy Giuliani also worked for that person and a former fbi director and i want to ask unanimous consent that a New York Times piece entitled giuliani is trying attentions to Hunter Bidens work and remain yet but there is a problem be entered into the record. Without objection, so ordered. Mr. Chairman, i want to go back to this theory because it seems to me that is what has triggered all of this and we are sitting here now wasting precious time while the country is about to shut down and all found its genesis with Rudy Giuliani that we ought to have Rudy Giuliani here. I know there was a motion made earlier and i would like to aggregate that motion without mentioning the other persons name and offer a motion again that Rudy Giuliani be required to come before this committee. Is there a second . And, mr. Chairman, i would like to ask that the clock be paused while pause the clock. Motion to table. Motion to table and is there a second . A second by ms. Fox. I guess we will have a vote on the motion to table his motion. This is about giuliani, right . All of those in favor and all of those opposed. The opinion of the chair the motion has i request a recorded vote, mr. Chairman. Will the clerk please get ready to have a recorded vote and another motion by the minority party. There is a motion for a temporary recess. Is there a second . Motion seconded. There is already a motion on the floor. There is a motion, and it is mine. Will the clerk please report . Call the roll. To be clear this is not a motion to table but motion of unanimous consent to call Rudy Giuliani as a witness for the Oversight Committee. Is that right . That is correct. Mr. Jordan and mr. Jordan votes aye. Mr. Turner. Mr. Ghosts are, ms. Fox. Ms. Fox votes aye. Mr. Grossman. Mr. Grossman votes aye. Mr. Palmer. Mr. Palmer votes aye. Mr. Higgins. Mr. Higgins votes aye. Mr. Session. Mr. Sessions votes aye. Mr. Biggs. Mr. Biggs votes aye. Ms. Mace. This is a motion to table the motion to subpoena Rudy Giuliani. It doesnt seem to have a lot to do with this. Ms. Mace votes aye. Mr. Le turner votes aye. Mr. Fallon. Mr. Donalds. Mr. Armstrong. Mr. Armstrong votes yes. Mr. Perry. Mr. Timmons. Mr. Burchard. Ms. Green. Ms. Mclean. Ms. Mclean votes i. Mr. Fry. Mr. Fry votes aye. Mr. Edwards. Mr. Edwards votes aye. Mr. Langworthy. Esther burlison . Mr. Burlison votes aye. Mr. Raskin. No. Mr. Raskin votes no. Ms. Norton votes no. Mr. Lynch votes no. Mr. Connolly. Mr. , . Mr. Mfume. He votes no. Ms. Oconnor feel cortez. She votes nate. Ms. Porter votes no. Ms. Bush. Mr. Gomez . Mr. Gomez votes no ms. Stansberry. Ms. Stansberry both no. Mr. Garcia. Mr. Garcia votes no. Mr. Frost. Mr. Frost votes no. Ms. Lee votes no. Mr. Kosar votes no. Ms. Crockett. Ms. Crockett votes no. Mr. Goldman. Mr. Moscowitz. Mr. Moscowitz both no. Ms. Tlaib votes no. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman votes aye. Mr. Fallon is not yet recorded. Aye. That was mr. Langworthy of new york recorded. Mr. Fallon votes i. Mr. Langworthy votes aye. Mr. Timmons is not yet recorded. Mr. Timmons votes aye. Mr. Kosar is not recorded. Mr. Kosar votes i eye. Mr. Connolly votes no. Not yet recorded for krishnamoorthi. Mr. Krishnamoorthi votes no. How was mr. Armstrong recorded . Mr. Armstrong is loaded aye. Mr. Chairman, however my recorded . Ms. Mace is reported as a voting aye. Mr. Donalds is not yet recorded. Mr. Donalds votes yes. Have i been recorded, madam clerk . It is mr. Raskin. Mr. Raskin, you are reported as voting no. Mr. Gomez, you are recorded as voted no. How on my recorded. Ms. Cortez is reported as voting no. Ms. Brown is not yet recorded. Ms. Brown votes no. Will the clerk please tally the votes. Mr. Chairman, the aye is 20 and no is 18. I do reclaim my time and i asked my question where in the world is Rudy Giuliani and that is how we got here, ladies and gentlemen. This committee is afraid to bring him before us and put him on the record. Shame. The question was raised what does this have to do with it . It has everything to do with it. And professor, in your testimony you said in every impeachment inquiry, before hand, the house has identified some credible evidence of wrongdoing committed by targeted president and is that correct . Yes, sir. Our impeachment impeachment inquirys utilized as a frontline tool to go fishing or for the first time seeking evidence . No, sir. Would you say House Republicans have made an unprecedented overreach of congressional power . It strikes me that it is. Mr. Gerhardt, would you say it is fair to assume that the extreme maga republicans in particular have misused if not abused Committee Resources and taxpayer dollars in this prolonged investigation that has gone on for almost a year subpoenaing documents and having hearings and providing boxes of evidence and no wrongdoing . I am not sure who the maga republicans are. I can point them out to you. Mr. Chairman, i would ask that the gentlemen please point out the republicans he is referring to. He said he could. I am reclaiming my time. Ladies and gentlemen, this clock is showing what is happening to our country while we did the over and over and over again, not any wrongdoing by President Biden, but trying to link what his son may or may not have done to him. People will see her when time runs out and this is not the wizard of oz when all of a sudden she turns over the hourglass when the wicked witch is standing here. These are children and women and military officers and soldiers and civilians and these are Law Enforcement officers. These are Senior Citizens looking for paychecks for Social Security and why are we playing this game . Why dont we be honest. If it were so important it could wait and this is what is important, protecting the government. And protecting the people who pay taxes here. But we want to play games with all of this. So where is Rudy Giuliani right now . I would like to know. I would like to know why we cant bring him before this Committee Like we brought these witnesses and everybody else. I yield back my time to the Ranking Member. I want to thank the distinguished gentleman from baltimore for his passionate and lucid comments and i appreciate the fact that you introduced a motion to subpoena Rudy Giuliani before and he wrote us a long letter saying all of this is based on an issue of fraud and he went all over the world with Rudy Giuliani is he alleging it is a fraud . Are you asking me to yield . I am happy to yield for a second. What is your question . What fraud i introduced the letter that was written to you and me and in it he called upon me to call off this wild goose chase. Because all of this is based on the burisma conspiracy. Somebody can yield and that is doctor fox from North Carolina for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. This is very Serious Business. I think at the end, it would be proven to the American People that this is Serious Business and we need to get on with it and need to have the other side stop playing games. Ms. Oconnor, in a column published by the wall street journal, you say it is the typical timidity of irs tax lawyers in recommending prosecution is Common Knowledge in the tax Enforcement Community and can you explain where this comes from . I dont know the source of it and thank you for the question. But it is Common Knowledge and the tax division is required to authorize any criminal tax charges that will be brought in order to inform itself and the special agent report is provided to the tax division before its too that, irs criminal tax attorneys review it and and i am sorry because i am having trouble answering this. Let me give you some more guidance. There were charges for irs criminal charges provides reviews in a report . Right. They are advisory only and the irs as any prosecutors is determined to have a High Conviction rate and they want to be careful that if they bring a case they will bring it. Can you describe a typical special agent report and specific to hunter biden . Certainly. The whistleblowers have testified in 1000 pages were provided to the tax division and that special agent report consisted not only of a discussion of what they had discovered but also every bit of evidence that they found that supported each element of each crime for each year for which they were recommending charges. Let me follow up again. More than a year after the Doj Tax Division receive this report, the division created a 99 page memorandum supporting the recommended charges. Is that correct . I may be wrong about how long it took the tax division and i heard it was a much shorter period of time. But they did do that . I understand they produced a 99 page memo authorizing the charges the special agents recommended. Thank you. You said the tax division recommended ask felonies and five misdemeanors . Correct. Hunter biden was only initially charged with two counts of willful failure to pay federal income tax as part of the plea deal, correct . Right. And these are misdemeanors. Right. The maximum penalty is a fine of 25,000 as well as up to a year in federal prison . Or both. Or both. Yet hunter biden owes more than 100,000 in both 2017 and 2018 . That is what the criminal information alleged and i think that is a ballpark figure. Based on the answers you provided, it is extremely difficult to believe that an individual who is not the son of the sitting u. S. President would be treated this way and we are told the department of justice treats all citizens equally under the law, but based on the evidence, this committee has presented, that is not what is happening in delaware. Based on your experience, would you agree that that is not what happened in delaware . Exactly. It was particularly telling because in the next state in new jersey a mechanic was being sentenced for two years for not having paid 100,000 in taxes. So in this case there was not equal justice under the law being proposed . Absolutely not. Totally unequal justice and that is not what this country stands for. We want everybody being treated the same under the law. My colleagues should feel the same way. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and i yield back. We recognize ms. Ocasio ortez and consent to enter into the record a letter that mr. Raskin refers to which is a press release from the Us Attorneys Office in the Southern District of new york and it is saying sentenced to 20 in prison for false statements and wire fraud so ordered. The chair recognizes ms. Ocasioortez. It has been repeated and i would like to repeat that the allegations being presented by the majority are extremely serious. The prospect of impeachment is a gravely serious matter which has been echoed by the witnesses today. And any serious impeachment investigation or inquiry relies on firsthand sworn testimony of witnesses to high crime and misdemeanors. And they have called and three witnesses to advance their case. Mr. Turley, i have a simple question for you. In your testimony today, are you presenting any firsthand witness accounts of crimes committed by the president of the United States . I am not. Ms. Oconnor, you are the second republican witness here today. Have you and your testimony presented any firsthand witness accounts of crimes committed by the president of the United States . I have not. Thank you. Have you and your testimony, mr. Dubinsky, presented any firsthand witness account of crimes by the president . I have not. Professor i assume you are not a factor in this. Correct. Is clarified, two individuals presented today who have firsthand accounts surrounding the progeny that the allegations are being blocked from testifying by republican majority and i want to explain why this is important. Members of congress, all of us in this hearing are not under oath and we are presently covered by the speech and debate clause . Correct . That is correct. It covers all statements by a member of congress whether they are factual or not. There are only four people in this room that are present we under oath in their testimony and those are the witnesses here today. Correct . Correct. Direct testimony of the four individual witnesses here today are the bona fide words that this committee must use in order to proceed or substantiate an investigation. I want to emphasize why that is important. Earlier today, one of our colleagues, a gentleman from florida, presented on the screen something that appeared to be a screenshot of a text message containing or insinuating an explicit allegation. That screenshot of what appeared to be a text message was a fabricated image. It was fabricated and i dont know where it came from and i dont know if it was the committee but it wasnt the actual direct screenshot from that phone. In fact, i would like to submit to the committee the actual full context from the affidavit of ziegler of the full text of that exchange. Do i have permission from the chair . Importantly what was brought out from that fabricated image excluded critical context that change the underlying meaning and allegation that was presented up on that screen by this committee and by members of this committee. They are well within their rights to do that. Because they are covered by the speech and debate clause. This is not submitted by a material witness under oath and that wasnt submitted by material or fact witness under oath. The impeachment inquiry, regardless of party is an extremely serious matter. Professor, in the impeachment inquiry into president clinton, where there witnesses represented during those proceedings . None in the house. In the senate . There were. There were. In the impeachment investigations with respect to President Trump, where there key material fact witnesses in the house . There were. Are there any key material fact witnesses here today . No. None. So we are wasting our time and when we talk about a threshold of impeachment inquiry, was very house floor vote that had a majority of members of congress that opened an impeachment inquiry into president clinton . There was. Was there a full house floor vote opening inquiry into President Trump . In 2019. Is there one for this one . There is not one here for this one. There is not one for this one. This is an embarrassment for the time and people of this country and i asked the chair and this committee elevate to the promise of our duties here and comport ourselves with the consistency and practice required of our duty and our oath to our responsibilities here. With that i yield back. Five minutes from wisconsin. I am concerned about the seriousness of these allegations and what bothers me a little is that i am beginning to think americans are beginning to think this behavior by the biden family is normal. I am afraid theyre going to say that President Biden is a politician and they will look at this in regards to senator menendez in the last few weeks and i want to say this is how it worked. I dont think this is how it works and i think there is this corruption that appears to be all sorts of smoke. And almost a historic low for our country and it deserves a strong response. And you can see senator menendez and the latest indictment and there is no tolerance for putting yourselves before constituents unless your last name is biden. I do applaud my democratic colleagues and we know how that ends and there is Political Risk but here we are talking about the presidency. If the response is hunter biden was an elected politician, i have to know what was hunter biden selling and we cant become numb to these facts and these allegations are extraordinary. In fact we have a sitting president accused of bribery and taking payments, whether it be directly or through his family. These are not empty allegations. And look at what is coming in just the past few days. Is President Biden compromised . It is relevant because of the interaction between our country and ukraine and the interaction between our country and siam in the facts demand we continue to investigate. And i want you to discuss how historic this is what you think is the most concerning piece of evidence that you heard of today . The most concerning, obviously, at the start with the bribery allegation that was the subject of the 1023 and i say in the testimony that you have to take that so far and you have a lot of information to second that account but when you put it into the context of the labyrinth to transfer money and you have the statements of hunter biden, that is what makes us a credible inquiry. And the question is did the president and know and encourage this type of corruption. The key and what i stress in the testimony is you have to begin with a Record Mission that what they were doing was corrupt and that is what influence peddling is, a form of corruption and our country globally has combated. The only question for an inquiry is whether that body of corruption, which it is, also encompassed the actions or the knowledge of the president of the United States. The only way you will be able to get that information is to follow the evidence. What i suggest is that you do so without any prejudice and you do so without any assumption and i hope that the president will be able to show that there is no such thing but you wont get those answers until you ask these questions. We are really obligated to have this. I believe it is your duty to determine if the president is involved in what is a known form of corruption and that is what i believed has already been described and many people have accepted this was influence peddling in its raw form. Could you elaborate for us the impact that bribery can have on the institution of their duties . And what if it were the president. Can you explain why the American Public ought to care about this . Alexander hamilton talked about impeachment as the violation of the public trust and that is really what this ultimately goes to. I am hoping there is not much disagreement that public corruption falls within and Impeachable Offense, because if it doesnt, then it makes a mockery of what the framers were talking about. During the clinton impeachment, michael and i testified and there was a lot of, i think, good faith discussion between us and the other experts as to the executive function theory and what constitutes Impeachable Offense. I would hope it would be agreed that if a nexus was established with the president that he participated in the corruption of influence peddling and it would be a potential Impeachable Offense, or it would be a debate. We have millions of dollars pouring into the biden family and that is proven overwhelmingly. Are you aware of any precedents in this country where there has been any case of bribery and corruption of a public official or other president of this magnitude . Is there any historical precedent in this country . The gentlemans time has expired. Please answer. The assumption is as the Ranking Member has said, the degree to which all of this money went to the biden family members, that has to be as the Ranking Member said established. But in terms of the figures, i have been a critic of influence peddling by republicans and democrats. This is the favorite form of corruption in washington dc and the city is awash with it. Have i seen anything of this size and complexity . No. As an observer . No. But we still need to know the scope of this and whether all of these financial transfers link the president to any regard and i wont assume it does. The chair recognizes a consent motion to introduce the october 2020 article in politico we are the source of the fd 1023 that he just referenced stated that neither he nor anyone else from burisma with President Biden or anyone working with them during his engagement. Without objection so ordered. Ms. Brown for five minutes. While we sit here, just two days away from a complete government shut down, House Republicans want to distract the American Public from their funding failure with a baseless impeachment inquiry lacking facts and foundation. This preventable shutdown threatens the livelihood of millions of federal workers, Small Business owners, seniors, and veterans. All of whom live in the district of every member of this committee. In my home state of ohio, there were 60,000 federal workers who will be furloughed or forced to work without pay. I cant overstate the impact this republican shut down will have on mothers and babies receiving wic. In ohio, there are 180,000 women and children and infants whose benefits will be at risk and in case that statistic is not sinking in, let me paint a picture. A new mother is trying to bite formula at the store next week to discover that she has no benefits to access and she cant pay. If Speaker Mccarthy and our republican colleagues continue to value their egos over the wellbeing of american families, stories like this will become a terrifying reality for millions. Yet House Republicans continue to prioritize Political Warfare over peoples welfare. The speaker seems committed to promoting political gains and protecting peoples benefits over protecting peoples benefits and americans in our economy are being held hostage to the demands of the most extreme members of his party. It is clear that Speaker Mccarthy has once again handed control of the peoples house through maga extremists. Rather than work with democrats to get us out of the mess they created, republicans are tripping over themselves trying to distract and deflect the American People will with this shameful show. The department of justice and the fbi under former President Trump spent five, five long years, looking at conspiracy theories and debunked them repeatedly. So now, in a vain attempt to reflect or deflect from the confusion there causing, House Republicans want to dig this up once again. So, professor gearhart, what would you say is the primary flaw in the House Republicans claims against President Biden . I suppose i could say a lot. The dots are not connected and the name repeated most often in this hearing is hunter biden, not President Biden. The point of an impeachment inquiry isnt about a president s son. It has to be about the president himself. I dont think those dots have been connected and there have been a lot of consumptions assumptions but not evidence. These falsehoods about President Biden didnt change the will of the people in november 2020, yet my colleagues on the other side of the house are at it again, holding another hearing on baseless allegations looking for facts that dont exist. And instead of fulfilling our duty to govern, our colleagues threaten our shutdown in our most vulnerable communities. With that, i yield my time to Ranking Member. I would urge you to yield to mr. Goldman. I will yield to mr. Goldman. I think my colleague. I believe you said the tax memo gave the charges . That is what was reported. The whistleblowers reported it was a discretion finding. And since he worked in the tax division, i am sure you understand that there is full authorization and there is discretion and declination. When they give a discretion determination, that is because there are serious holes and flaws. And they leave it to the discretion of the u. S. Attorney whether or not they want to charge it, correct . Not at all. Not based on that but the ability of that district to prosecute that case. In fact, that several times in the testimony and only one time did mention discretion and all of the other times it didnt mention it at all. Share recognizes mr. Palmer for five minutes. Thank you. I am very disturbed about what i heard today. There is a saying among country lawyers that if you have the facts you found facts and if you dont have the facts you found the table and when you cant pound the table i guess they choose to pound the witnesses and that was inexcusable. What happened in this committee is attacking the witnesses personally instead of addressing the merits of the evidence presented and that indicates to me that my democratic colleagues know the evidence is becoming increasingly conclusive and it reminds me of a line from a few good men, you cant handle the truth. The evidence will either convict or acquit in any criminal proceeding or civil proceeding and if there is no wrongdoing, the evidence or lack of evidence will support that conclusion. The problem of the suspicion of wrongdoing is compounded by the withholding of evidence and the misrepresentation of the evidence at hand and the instruction of an investigation but not denying access to information that would be or could be evidence. At this point, there is a growing Public Perception and it is reflected in the polls that President Biden and other family members and Business Associates were engaged in some form of criminal activity. It is the responsibility of this committee to pursue the truth and report it to the American People. I am not sure that is what is happening on the other side with my colleagues. It is vitally important that our efforts be conducted openly, without prejudice, with no other agenda other than arriving at the truth, regardless of our politics. It is vitally important. And as professor turley has pointed out, you dont undertake an impeachment inquiry lightly. This has implications for the future of this country and the ability to govern ourselves. We have seen repeatedly obstructive efforts and obstruction efforts to deny this Committee Access to information that is material to this investigation. I asked professor turley a question. In your view, could the promise of foreign access to any official or Government Official weather it is the Vice President or anybody else, that only materially benefited a family member, could that be influence peddling . Yes. As i point out in the testimony, courts have found that various benefits to family members can be attributed to the benefit of a principal which included everything from throwing a golf contest in favor of a son of a politician to paying for gifts and in fact i was lead counsel in the last impeachment trial for a judge and that was the trial in the u. S. Senate and my client was accused, among other things, of benefits going to his family. There certainly is precedent, not only in criminal cases but it impeachment cases for making that. I will be more specific. If Vice President biden used his office to influence Foreign Policy for the financial benefit of his son, even though Vice President biden may never have received a dime, then it resulted in millions of dollars going to his son or his brother or other family members or Business Associates, and he used his office to influence either domestic or Foreign Policy, for their benefit, could that be a violation of the public trust . Absolutely. In fact, it is perhaps the most quintessential violation of the public trust because you are not acting in the publics interest but a form of public corruption that this government, this country has declared it is corrupt and other countries around the world. And i dont want to jump on your time but i would like to respond to the attack you mentioned. You may do so. I would like to explain what that attack dealt with and if nothing else for members of the committee but for my three children here who may be surprised by what they just heard. As they know, i have spent my life challenging what is called morals legislation but the democratic member attacked me for. And how they should use their lives and some of those laws have been used against and lesbian couples and used against minorities and the individual that the member described , i condemned. I represented the sister wives in a case challenging that law on the basis of individual right and the trial court ruled in our favor and struck down that law the first time it had ever been struck down and the 10th circuit dismissed on technical grounds. That i will end with one other thing. That is, it isnt going to make a difference. This has become a pattern of witnesses and whistleblowers and fbi agents, journalists being attacked in congress and it wont make any difference or change the constitutional standard and it wont negate any evidence that you have, but at some point, you have to say, enough. We have to have the public has to have something in congress to look to to have faith. I have to tell you that it is not that i think the absurd attack meant any difference to my children or the people watching. It does make a difference to the process. Witnesses mr. Chairman, i hate to interrupt, but could our witness get equal time because we are a minute over. The time has expired and he responded to the false allegations. I i apologize for how you have been treated to the American People watching this hearing. The stunt the other side his pool. People in america care about public corruption. The title of this hearing is impeachment inquiry and i think mr. Turley has done a good job explain the basis for why we need to make an impeachment inquiry and go forward. Weve led this investigation and now we need the impeachment inquiry status as we move forward to get the information we have been obstructed by this administration and that is the purpose of this hearing, dont create another false narrative. With that the chair recognizes the gentleman from california. What obstruction where youre referring to . Mr. Gomez was next. Thank you, mister chairman. I want to say thank you to donald trump for calling this hearing today. As it demonstrates, the house gop and Donald Trumps continued attacks on our institutions and our democracy and the house gops complete inability to govern in a serious manner. They are holding this hearing as we see just two days before a potential devastating Government Shutdown and the fact that most republican members of this committee didnt even bother to show up for the hearing this morning. Their own star witness said right here in this committee this morning that he doesnt even believe theres enough evidence to meet the standards needed for impeachment. In doing this our colleagues across the aisle are making a mockery of this institution at our constitution pedaling in conspiracy theories that Rudy Giuliani and donald trump themselves tried to to get the American People to believe and which Donald Trumps doj debunked. It is outrageous. Lets be clear about what this hearing actually is. It is an effort to undermine our democracy, to diminish Donald Trumps own two impeachments, his first impeachment for trying to illegally bribe a Foreign Government to help him with his campaign, and the second for aid deadly insurrection of the halls of this capital after he asked his followers to tear through the halls of congress which they did with zip ties looking to execute the former Vice President. We know that donald trump has called for this impeachment inquiry because we have the direct evidence from his own social. You can see it right here. He says impeach the bomb. We know he has been directly coordinating with members of this committee as reported by the New York Times, right here, a member of this committee, has been briefing donald trump on this inquiry. We also know that if donald trump doesnt get his way, he wantss loyalists to shut down the government. How do we know that . Because he posted it right here on his social media. And his loyalists in this committee who are doing his bidding for him today retweet it. In fact, it actually says right here is that the reason they want to defund the government and impeach is because this is the last chance to bring political prosecutions. So this is not a serious inquiry, this is not a serious hearing. In fact, the witnesses here dont even believe there is enough evidence to impeach. Their own members dont even believe there is enough evidence to impeach. In fact they refused to hold a vote on the floor of the house of representatives because they didnt have enough republican members who would vote for it. Thats why we are here today. It is outrageous. So what is this hearing actually about . It is a campaign strategy. It is a misuse of official resources. It is this committee, and loyalists of donald trump doing his bidding to bolster his chances of winning back the white house and securing their majority in the next election. And in the process, diminish the name of impeachment was enshrined in the u. S. Constitution which we take an oath to uphold, and to make Donald Trumps crimes, including his two impeachments and 91 criminal indictment counts look like they are not serious crimes. When you think about it, it is chilling. It is truly chilling. It is another attack on our democracy and our institutions. Another attack on fair and free elections, and the use of this committee to try to carry it out. I want to say i think it is obvious who the grand puppetmaster is here. He tweeted about it on his own social, and we see the long arm, the little hands of donald trump whose fingerprints are all over this hearing and this sham impeachment but we know that the American People are smart, they are not going to be fooled by what is happening here today and especially as they shut the government down in two days with catastrophic impact for our communities. With that i yield back. The chair recognizes mr. Higgins from louisiana for five minutes. We are going to be moving quickly here. Let us retract from the absurdities of 21stcentury twitter, lets go back to 1787, article 2, section 4, the president , Vice President , and all civil officers of the United States shall be removed from office on impeachment for and conviction of treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors, high crimes and misdemeanors is not and never has been limited to indictable criminality. Mister turley, professor, please tell us briefly, the actual meaning in 1787 of high crimes and misdemeanors . A matter of robust debate for many decades. What we do know is that there were various terms that were offered and rejected. The most famous being Mall Administration and James Madison was uncomfortable with that but they were also uncomfortable with limiting it to treason at bribery. It was never designed to be limited by writ of statute, was it . Would madison argue, quote, betrayal of trust to foreign powers is an Impeachable Offense . There are references into that type of betrayal of trust but also if you take a look at past impeachments they have gone to violation of public trust including the use of office to perpetuate false accounts or to obstruct this body. Impeachment is a mechanism of Congressional Authority, not a criminal proceeding, is it . It is not. What i said previously as i happen to believe you should start with the criminal code. If you look at things that would be crimes for others because those resonate the most. Those, all Code Violations would be revealed through the investigative effort of congressional endeavor to inquire into Impeachable Offenses like this hearing, would you agree . Moving quickly. One of the gentlemen said theres no Credible Data this evidence. As an investigator perhaps no category of evidence is more credible than bank records. Bank records is what we are working with, the house Oversight Committee, judiciary committee, ways and Means Committee, investigating highly suspicious money transactions from foreign powers through Shell Companies, to biden family members. Theres nothing more credible in an investigative effort than bank records. Im going to read from an email from assistant United States attorney wolf released by the House Committee on ways and means yesterday identified as exhibit 202 of the irs whistleblower investigation, this email shows miscible prohibiting the Investigation Team from looking into political figure one. Let me clarify during that investigation, political figure one was the pseudonym agreed upon by the Investigative Team and irs investigator, it is not a pseudonym created by republicans or democrats, political figure 1 is President Biden. Leslie wolf, as a priority, someone needs to redraft that there should be nothing about political figure one in here. This is a response to any mail delivered by joshua wilson, fbi agent, please see attached draft for blue star search warrant, Blue Star Strategies is a democrat lobbying firm that hunter biden used to put pressure on us Government Officials to end the investigation and protect burisma, the department of justice investigated blue star for these activities and allowed to retroactively register as a Foreign Agent, to date no one has been held accountable. That happened in 2020, you should be very concerned about this. Mister turley, based upon the constitutional parameters, do you agree the Oversight Committee, judiciary committee, ways and Means Committee should be judiciously investigating reasonable suspicion of impeachable actions by President Joe Biden . I do. It is your duty to get answers to these questions and to see if the president was involved in what i think is confirmed, corrupt influence peddling effort. Thank you, my time is expired, i yield. Recognize Mister Garcia for five minutes. Thank you. I want to begin by recapping for the American People what we have seen so far today. My democratic colleagues have done a great job showing there is absolutely 0 evidence linking President Biden to any wrongdoing, 0, none. This hearing is a complete waste of time two days before a Government Shutdown. We know that hunter biden never held any sort of public caucus and there is no evidence that he ever influenced any kind of policy in the white house, theres no evidence he and his fathers finances were ever linked and weve spoken to many witnesses to prove that, none of the witnesses here have any direct evidence of any wrongdoing, that was repeated here by these witnesses so instead we are back to themaga conspiracy theories that Rudy Giuliani parroted over and over again. This farce is all about House Republicans trying to reelect their beloved leader, donald trump, what i want to know is why we are not investigating real family corruption, they want to attack President Bidens family. Who never worked in the white house, which is incredibly hypocritical. Yet we have not yet talked about of these guys that actually worked in the white house. I want to talk about Jared Kushner who is right over here, we know Jared Kushner was Donald Trumps son in law, given enormous power in the white house. When he joined the white house he was so unfit and unqualified in some any conflicts of interest he couldnt even get a security clearance. s fatherinlaw donald trump had to intervene overriding National Security officials. We also know that just months after jared left the white house the saudi royal family gave him 2 billion into the kushner hedge fund. Right now jared is pocketing additional 25 million a year in fees. This is a man who was put at the head of middle east policy in the white house, we know he personally intervened to give the saudis a 110 billion arms deal that was opposed by folks all across the government. He supported the saudis with their brutal war in yemen even after they murdered jamal khashoggi, a journalist and american resident. The Saudi Crown Prince told others that kushner was in his pocket. The secretary of state complained this was an appropriate. Jerry delivered for the saudis over and over again and was rewarded. Even advisors for the crown prince advised against the to billiondollar Hedge Fund Investment yet he went forward anyway. We know that Jared Kushner, senior weiss out white house aide and Donald Trumps son in law was doing favors for a Foreign Government. This is an enormous family scandal this committee should be investigating and Chris Christie put it well when he said the graft from this family, the trump crime family in my opinion is breathtaking. You need to take my word for it, this is what our Committee Chairman actually said about the kushners. Im just quoting our chairman. I have been vocal that what i think what kushner did crossed the line of ethics. Mr. Chairman. I completely agree kushner crossed the line of ethics and i want to know what we are going to do about it and when that hearing will be in front of us. If we are not too busy next week during the republican themaga shutdown we can have a hearing with Jared Kushner which is clearly a corrupt arms deal around his Investment Firm and the chairman could be involved in that. We are not here because of any wrongdoing of President Biden, its all part of Donald Trumps campaign. s most extreme allies including some members of this committee are now retaliating. Some members have been trying to impeach the president since day one. This is a tweet here. Two years ago i introduced articles to impeach joe biden on his first full day in office. We will impeach biden, with an exclamation point and you see the resolution here. We have the receipts to prove it. There really is no reason why, they dont care why they want to impeach the president , they have been trying to do it now for years. Are you have a member of the Oversight Committee posting about introducing articles of impeachment on President Bidens very first day in office and the speaker of the houses empowering these people in a desperate attempt to keep his job. Ultimately the person pulling the strings is donald trump, a dangerous man facing federal and state indictments and out for revenge, he has been doing this his whole career. I want to show you a second tweet by a member of this committee. They are trying to expunge Donald Trumps impeachment as you can see here, which is also unconstitutional. I want to read this tweet, expose the wrongful trump impeachment, in creech impeach, biden, these are political stunts to appeal to an extra mister base and seize control of this conference. If we dont act they will threaten our democracy again. This impeachment is a farce with no evidence. With that i yield back. Jared kushner was a key player point of order. Chair recognizes mister sessions from texas for 5 minutes. Thank you very much. You have been asked the question earlier that i heard a quick reply to and the answer to the question was about the timing of a Government Shutdown and in impeachment, you quickly responded never, do you want to revise or extend that remark about the timing of a Government Shutdown and an impeachment occurring at about the same time, and you said never . I understand the question. If youre talking about 2019, there was not a shutdown. There was not. There is not now. I understand. There is not now. The people on this side are simply taking advantage of your answer. In fact, the indictment, the impeachment of donald trump was december 18, 2019, and than the president signed of the funding of the government december 21st, 2019, three days later. So the question you are asked, perhaps you responded to correctly, never omma but in fact there is a nexus that suggests people on this side of the dais are taking it the wrong way. Second i also find some of our members are talking about baseless accusations of a Government Shutdown. Are you have to do is go to google, ohio, to apply it, the supposition brought up, can be gathered in all 88 ohio counties. It is run by the state of ohio, not the federal government. I think we need to be careful when we make accusations here. Thank you. Miss oconnor. You have a history of understanding tax implications, and inside the department of justice, these are serious matters. Yield to the gentleman from ohio . I will not. The implications of this endeavor that we are attempting to understand is decisionmaking inside the department of justice. And inside the decisionmaking, weve already heard back a number of times how the department of justice did not move forward in compliance to their job to make a determination whether the facts would or should be taken further with president clinton, the fbi went and actually interviewed the president and Vice President about these matters and other people in the white house and president clinton lost his law license over that and it ended up there was an impeachment from the house side. Can you please talk about what should be done from normal and regular department of justice officials to see whether this has occurred and whether we are entitled to ask about that investigation from the federal bureau of investigation and the doj. Thank you, mr. Sessions. I think you are more than entitled, youre obligated to look into the allegations, that whistleblowers were very detailed in the investigative steps that they talk and those they wanted to take but would have taken in any other investigation. We dont have a window into where the roadblock was thrown. Is it proper for this committee to bring those individuals and properly vet them about that or is that the duty of the department of justice through the federal bureau of investigation to get that done . I think it is your obligation. We know whistleblowers tried to remedy the obstruction from within the Internal Revenue service and got no backup at all, they were left out to dry. Does that include asking for metadata that might have supported any other investigation like this . Absolutely. There was the message where hunter biden says he sitting next to his father and in the process shaking down a Chinese Businessman. The agents wanted to find out if that was a true statement and they could have found out but were denied the authority to pursue that . By what authority . We dont know exactly. All we know from the testimony is they would request search warrants. Let the record reflect this is an inquiry for us to make a determination. Without objection. Placed into the record the articles i had previously provided to this committee in testimony. The consent motion, i would like to offer a press release from the same Southern District of new york that you introduced entitled devon archer sentenced to a year and a day in prison for the fraudulent issuance and sale of more than 60 million of bonds. Hunter bidens Business Partner that is correct. Your star witness. Chair recognizes mister gomez from california for five minutes. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman. One of the things i want to stress is from the beginning of this congress, the republicans had one thing in mind, lets get joe biden. Lets get joe biden and lets find the evidence that showed he did something wrong. When the evidence didnt exist they would make up facts or exaggerate to an extent that it was honestly mindboggling. I want to focus on one part first. The republicans point out 20 Shell Companies of the biden family, actually 20 Shell Companies of hunter biden. Any time to they say the biden family, they are saying hunter biden because there hasnt been a connection between joe biden and these companies. Do we have the slides up . First slide, thats not the slide, but i will show it. There is an article from the Washington Post, august 17th, 2023, that says how republicans overhyped the findings of the Hunter Biden Probe and it specifically when it comes to these 20 Shell Companies as they call them. They were overhyped and gave them three pinocchios. I would like unanimous consent to enter this into the record. Without objection so ordered. Next, we keep focusing on these companies, the ways and Means Committee reveals 700 pages, it was really dramatic, 60 one oh 3 to get these returns and they say we are going to show they did something wrong. The chairman of the ways and Means Committee, adrian smith who serves honestly or sit on this committee presented, asked a simple question, they pointed out this actually came, whats apps message of hunter biden allegedly sent in 2017, when President Biden wasnt even president. When joe biden wasnt even running for president. Unanimous consent to enter another article by yahoo news, nbc reporter destroys gop lawmakers evidence against joe biden without even trying to. Without objection so ordered. Lets dig into these businesses. 20 companies, thats a lot of companies for an average american like myself. Ive got a w 2, files my income taxes, my wife and i have simple returns but when it came to donald trump, how Many Companies did he have . Anyone want to take a guess . How Many Companies did mister trump have . I have no idea the number reclaim my time. I reclaim my time. Cant even answer a simple question. He had he also had over 500 companies. I looked up the tax returns because i was on the ways and Means Committee and i got to dig into it. Over 500 companies, from 517 to 543 companies. Republicans had no concern about that, they were structured in a way they were almost like a set of russian nesting dogs, each one hiding existence of who controlled the others but the republicans bring it up . No. Do they have any concerns . No. What happened last week or this week . Lets take a guess. A judge said that donald trump committed fraud. This is fraud for inflating the value of his net worth and his companies but when it comes to the republicans they have no problem with that, no problem, dont want to dig into that. When trump controls these 517 companies, when it came to hunter biden controlling 20, we see a direct line to joe biden. That is what the problem is, they are cherry picking facts to connect to joe biden and when they dont have facts, they make it up as they did earlier today when they put up tweets or Text Messages that were not connected. The point is everything they are doing is to muddy the waters. It is disgraceful because when it comes to a president that committed fraud, a president caused an insurrection, president that sold our Governments National interests to the highest bidder, silence. With that i your back my time. The judge will yield a question about president s sons 20, and his. Your back my time. Chair recognizes mr. Biggs for 5 minutes. I will put up on the board in a second, this is the entire transcript of the devon archer testimony i submit to the record. So ordered. In this particular colloquy that is going on, highlighted up there, you will see that mr. Archer says, lets start at the beginning and go somewhere else, he says the question is did he did hunter talk about how bringing his dad either to ukraine are using his dad as Vice President would add value in the eyes of burisma officials, answer, yes. How did it come up . We were Business Partners and it came up. We are Business Partners, okay. What kind of leverage was hunter trying to get by using his dad . Answer. It is more defensive. Defense of leverage. Also in the same document i asked, the brand, you keep talking about the biden brand. Is it doctor jill . His brother jim . No. Looks at me like of course it is joe biden. Of course it is joe biden. Go back and see bobalinsky, the biden family aggressively leveraged the biden family name to make millions of dollars from foreign entities even though some were from communist controlled china, and who is the biden family asset . Is it doctor jill . No. Brother jim . No. These grand kids got money from foreign companies, no, none of those folks, none of those folks. Than the stuff released from ways and means yesterday, hunter biden saying to his brother, his uncle jim, ill around bs, explain to me one thing, tony brings to my table that i so desperately need that im willing to sign over my familys brand, whats the brand, joe biden and pretty much the rest of my Business Life because thats the only product i got. The Vice President , joe biden at the time. It is plain english. Why would i give this marginal ability the keys to my familys own assets. Okay, we are told theres nothing linking them. I got to ask this question. If the brands and what you are selling is President Biden, the then Vice President and if joe biden or his families receive some kind of benefit by the sale of access or i will leave it there, selling of access or even the illusion of access, where does that lead you to conclude . If you look at actual cases i have cited in my testimony, benefits the family members can use the benefits of the principal so theres not much debate about that. The issue of the inquiry is, there there is some progress in the last few weeks and that many people after the archer testimony said i get it. Its influence peddling, someone said its the illusion of access. That s the defense. Calling it by its correct name is important and it is a form of corruption. The benefits to the family members and be attributed the print believe under the higher standard of criminal cases. What remains is did the president know that, direct that, participate in it . We know he made 20 calls to Business Associates, hes having dinners with those associates which leads me to the followup question that i think its critical here because these guys are looking for the gold bars, cash stuffed in the mend and does coat, that doesnt happen very often. In my experience, having tried a lot of cases. My question for you is tell us, you have circumstantial evidence, what is its value. Can you rest a conviction on circumstantial evidence . You can. One thing i point out in my testimony is the Supreme Court has narrowed some of the element of bribery, denial of honest services, those elements are now narrower than they were but it is notable the menendez indictment, they brought the conspiracy, they still believe these types of gifts can be based on a Conspiracy Theory but you are clearly correct, if the allegations against senator menendez ours are true, that is oldschool bribery, not since jefferson and his freezer have we seen that type of raw evidence. Today is a lot more sophisticated. Everyone has to acknowledge influence peddling is the favorite form of corruption in washington. Thats unassailable. Its more sophisticated than handing over gold bars or whatever is alleged in the menendez case. I have a document to get in. I appreciate my colleagues trust the American People and the cnn pulses the majority of americans believe joe biden as Vice President was involved in his sons business dealings. Without objection so ordered. Another unanimous consent motion. I would move with unanimous consent to introduce an order from the Supreme Court of the state of new york from tuesday where the Trump Organization was found liable for fraud and specifically on page 28 where theres a paragraph entitled, quote, the trump brand premium that was increased the value of trump assets by 15 or 30 according to the Trump Organization. Without objection so ordered, chair recognizes mister frost from florida for five minutes. And impeachment inquiry is a grave undertaking that is supposed to be in response to evidence of a crime. Mister chairman, you have questions many of my colleagues on the other side of the island is hearing but questions are not the basis for an impeachment. Evidence is. Mister sir terry the best mister turley, september 1st, Kevin Mccarthy said he would not launch a fake impeachment inquiry, sham impeachment inquiry, but on september 12th just 12 days later he completely changed his mind. My question is why . In those 12 days, did hard evidence appear that clearly and directly linked the president of the United States to a crime . I cant answer what they said that pushed the speaker to make the decision. The courts have said you dont have to have that vote on the floor. I think it is the best practice. Im interested in those 12 days. We know you are not a fact witness and are talking about things that are already public, but is there anything that came up in those 12 days that linked the president of the United States will crime . I dont have any recollection of those 12 days. I can tell you what is nothing. Weve heard from you that this is why we have this impeachment inquiry but lets be clear, this inquiry has been going on since the day we got here, from the day i was sworn in at 2 a. M. On a saturday night this impeachment inquiry started. Lets pull back the curtain on whats really going on, theres no evidence of crime, only desperation and political pressure. This is what is going on. The far right called for the sham impeachment hearing with no evidence at the beginning of this year when we first got started. This impeachment inquiry has been going on, this is not the first hearing weve had in relation to this. On september 1st the speaker of the house, Kevin Mccarthy, says no. We are not going to do that, we dont have the evidence, we dont have the votes for it to pass on the house floor, we are not going to do it. A good decision in my opinion. But then, just 12 days later, 12 precious days later, something happens. Im not sure what, but something happens because than the speaker of the house, Kevin Mccarthy comes out and says yes, we will do an impeachment inquiry. What happened between these 12 days. Its very simple. Three threats from members of his own caucus at the direction of donald trump changed his mind, number one, threats of forcing a vote on impeachment which would lose on the house floor and be another embarrassment in the long list of embarrassments for the speaker of the house. Number 2, threatened to shut down the government, something that will happen in just two days. Number 3, this is the one that really got to him, they said you are about to lose your job and they said we will remove you as speaker of the house and that scared him so much that Kevin Mccarthy, the speaker of the house of the United States of representatives, third in line for the presidency completely caved due to threats of people within his own caucus. This fake impeachment is based on desperate political calculation, not any evidence. Mister chairman, you say this hearing is to establish the basis for this fake sham impeachment hearing but these witnesses are not giving us any basis or any evidence. They are giving us reclaim my time. I have to stop. Reclaim my time. These witnesses are not giving any answers, they are just asking more questions. We have one witness who has a lot of questions, one witness who knows something about accounting but has no involvement in what is going on and mr. Turley stopping on his way to his next fox news interview. This is not a serious inquiry. This impeachment is something that is very serious and we have to ensure that we focus on the wants and needs of the American People. This is all for nothing. Half the crowd has left, there is no line outside. The goal is to distract from the Government Shutdown, is not going to work. The speaker has to say youre being played by these extremists for donald trump. Its costing us our economy, this entire fake impeachment inquiry isnt about the United States, its about hunter biden, the only thing the president can be guilty of here is being a father. I yelled back to the Ranking Member. The chair recognizes the gentleman from florida yields back. Yield it to the Ranking Member. Extra time back as well. Much of the republican case and evidence has relied on words from hunter biden, hunter biden said this, hunter biden said that, therefore case closed, there is something here. We know that hunter biden was dealing with substance misuse disorder, correct . He has been under indictment, correct . Is this a reliable witness that you would deem . Probably not. The gentles lot times expired, chair recognizes mister armstrong. Unanimous consent. A hearing notice from hold on. Sorry. June 10, 2019, with an impeachment hearing, Barbara Mcquaid is not a fact witnessed and 70 storytime, secondly theres another unanimous consent motion for hearing with two witnesses here just a week before we voted on impeachment in 2019 with Michael Gerhardt and jonathan turley, appreciate you being here but you are not fact witnesses at that time. Without objection so order. Chair recognizes. I question chair recognizes ms. Banks. I request unanimous consent to enter an article into the record dated january 6th, 2019, a member of this committee the day after she was sworn in came into congress, this article says response to her words, impeach the mother femr, some might say these kinds of comments are not only hypocritical but this is an embarrassment to the time and people of this country. Without objection so ordered. Mr. Chairman. The gentle lady from South Carolina engaging in personalities against a fellow member of the committee. What she entered in the record was, i believe missed wave. The commentary that accompanied it that im referring to. From january 6th. The response to impeach the mother f is about a are comment by a member of this committee. The commentary and in any event she said it. Rule 17 a commentary of what shes presenting the gentle ladys time lets get on with this. The gentleman is about to shut down, i think. Chair recognizes the gentleman from kansas for 5 minutes. The mischaracterization of what this hearing is about by my colleagues on the other side is astounding. Throughout the presidency of joe biden, the white house has attempted to claim the president did not talk to hunter about his business dealings. President biden said during the 2020 president ial debate that no members of his family received money from china. He said and i quote my son has not made money in terms of this thing about china, nobody else has made money from china. The white house strategy has been denied denied denied, lie and counterattack but the evidence and the facts have forced the white house to change the story time and again. The white house handlers continue to shift the goalposts and President Biden continues to live. How can President Biden continue to maintain that hunters private business was simply that, private, when it is clear from bank records, emails, and testimony that President Biden was intimately involved in hunters pay to play scheme and crooked foreign business dealings . This image shows an email between hunter biden at his Business Associates stating the setup of equity in a chinese owned energy venture. This particular business deal was with cfc, a chinese owned energy conglomerate. This email lays out the payment structure for equity in the company which was known to be tied to the Chinese Communist party through its owner chairman, the committees investigation into the biden family including evidence turnover through various documents has shown these men were all in business with hunter biden at one time or another. Tony, rob walker and other hunter Business Partners have confirmed what this email said, that they were all who else was getting a cut . Whats the date of that email . This is my time. Just asking the date. I asked my time be restored. Please return the gentlemans time. Who else was getting a cut . According to this email, 10 was going to the big guy. What im sure my colleagues on the other side are asking themselves is who is the big guy . Let me tell you. We learned, the fbis 1023, the chesky called President Biden the big guy, tony bobaza belinsky cooperated hes the big guy, rob walker, irs whistleblower said President Biden is the big guy. Finally, the Justice Department obstructed investigators in delaware who wanted to look into the big guy. Listen, folks. It is obvious, President Biden is the big guy. What do we have here . We have the president saying he had nothing to do with, hunter biden and nobody in the family profited from china and evidence here that the big guy was getting 10 . Let me read you a definition of a trendy word here lately. Gas lighting. It is a form of psychological manipulation in which an abuser attempts to gain power and control over the other person by distorting reality and forcing them to question their own judgment and intuition. I would say to the American People look at the evidence before you and make a judgment and do not allow the white house or our colleagues on the other side of the aisle try to convince you that what you are seeing isnt the truth, to convince you that you are crazy. You have extensive experience as an Expert Witness and consultant in areas of whitecollar crime, financial fraud, and corruption. Is the characteristics of these types of crimes that actors hide behind nicknames or other pseudonyms to master identities . Very common. What about this email image, is it characters to get financial crimes that youve investigated or provide expert testimony on in the past . Typically you will see codenames used and the money being paid to somebody under that code name and that is how these processes work. You are very experienced, when conducting an investigation, if your boss prevented you from taking investigate of steps how would you react . How would it affect your findings . It would be troubling. If i was told not to continue to investigate something and if i was put in that position i would probably withdraw from the investigation. Has a about of justice ever restricted any of your investigative steps . They have not. Thats amazing. I yield back my time. Gentlemen yields back, chair recognizes miss lee from pennsylvania. Three hours and 45 or so minutes into this, the republicanss own witnesses have confirmed that they have seen no evidence of any evidence. If my republican colleagues had a socalled smoking gun, they would have presented it by now and would have talked about it. Can the gentle lady read a Bank Statement or text message . Reclaiming my time. Instead we are sitting here with no fact witnesses and no evidence, this sham socalled impeachment to distract from their inability to fulfill their basic duty, to fund and run the government. Republicans know the American People dont want a shut down so instead the republicans on this committee are attempting to distract the American Peoples attention by spending taxpayer dollars on this sham impeachment hearing two days before they shut the government down in hopes the media and i dont just mean fox news, will fall for their scheme and give more airtime to the lies being told on this committee today than the real life impact their shutdown will have on even their own constituents lives. In fact, chairman comeers district republican shutdown, 8,937 of his constituents, their paychecks. Jim jordans district, the republican shutdown will cost 3939 of his constituents, their paycheck, Marjorie Taylor greenes district, republican shutdown will cost 6306 of her constituents. And lauren democrat other party of shutdowns. In Lauren Boeberts district, it will cost her constituents their paychecks. The arizona district, republican shutdown will cost 12,349 of his constituents their paychecks and byron donald, 3235 paychecks. Andy biggs, 8433, lisa mclean, 7286. In pennsylvania, the capital of my commonwealth, republican shutdown will cost 5445 of his constituents who will lose their paycheck. Indeed, when you add it all up, republicans shutdown will cost 217,583 of their constituents. Their income for who knows how long. Let that sink in for a second. Those are our mothers, fathers, caretakers, brothers, sisters, friends, neighbors, beloved community members, veterans who wont know how their food or medicine will be paid for or where their rent money is coming from. Many of them vote republican but i bet youre not one of them cares more about Hunter Bidens laptop or helping Kevin Mccarthy keep his gig as leader or speaker of his disuncle caucus than they care about receiving their paycheck and making ends need. The republicans on this committee are betting we will spend this hearing engaging in partisan bickering over their favorite buzzword, rather than talking about how i ama aga shutdown will crush all of our constituents. I dont quite care about private citizen hunter, whom the proper authorities are dealing with or the cable news culture war distraction. I care about the 7 million babies, children, mothers across the country who will lose access to food and formula over 10,000 in my district alone. I care about 300,000 families, veterans, who could face eviction from their homes. Diseases and Cancer Patients physics are mental trials have been delayed for months and our seniors, unable to get help with security and medicare, make no mistake, your attacks are targeted both on who is behind the man who is hurt most, the most marginalized folks are the brunt of these attacks. Poor folks and disabled folks. Keeping that struggle in mind we had two hearings on the infant formula shortage on the subcommittee chaired by congresswoman mclean with 320,000 babies, things like my republican colleagues only care about an issue when they can point finger in another direction. Much like what is going on in this embarrassment of a hearing today. One of your recent hotbeds you mentioned a good test for assessing the constitutionality of a governmental action is to switch the name of a Political Party and actors involved. If the outcome is the same it is a sign of neutrality. If its not the same theres a good chance partisanship is a driving force. I think we can safely say this inquiry would fail that neutrality test, we are here, america, this sham hearing, prioritizing the political needs of the republican party, pushing a lie for donald trump as you go hungry and you lose your home, shameful. At the request of the witnesses, we will take a 10 minute recess. 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