Democracy. Next, the first public hearing for the impeachment inquiry into president by the House Oversight and Accountability Committee led by kentucky representative james palmer meant for nearly six hours House Republicans at the inquiry is focused on whether biden was involved in or benefited from his familys foreign business dealings. [background noises] [background noises] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] which members are waving . [background noises] a committee on oversight and accountability will come to order. I want to welcome everyone here today. Without objection the chair may declare a racist at any time. The first order of business is to welcome the return of eight eightmember to the committee. We went to welcome from michigan to the committee congresswoman has been a member of the house. [applause] since 2019. Before that she served 15 years the Michigan House of representatives but she is a familiar face to this committee as she spent her first two terms on the Oversight Committee congresswoman replaces congresswoman of vermont and i went to welcome back congresswoman i now recognize Ranking Member reckons to welcome congresswoman for. Thank you chairman for that very worm welcome extended to our colleague the favorite daughter of michigan and a veteran of this committee. We are so thrilled and delighted she is back to join us. Well back progressive sentiment yields back. I ask unanimous consent for representative jason smith of the house ways and Means Committee to be waved on the committee for todays hearing for the purposes of asking questions. Without objection so ordered. Ask mr. Jim asking thems consent our colleague congressman glenn ivey from maryland be permitted to join the committee for questions of the witnesses today. Without objection so ordered. I now recognize myself for the purpose of making an Opening Statement. Since assuming a republican majority in january the House Oversight and Accountability Committee has uncovered a mountain of evidence revealing how joe biden abused his Public Office for his familys financial gain. For years President Biden has lied to the American People about his knowledge of and participation in his familys corrupt business schemes. At least 10 times joe biden lied to the American People that he never spoke to his family about their business dealings. He lied by telling the American People there is an absolute wall between his official government duties and his personal life. Lets be clear there was no wall. The door was wide open to those who purchased business associate described as the biden brand. Evidence reveals then Vice President joe biden spoke, dined develop relationships with his familys foreign business targets. These business targets include foreign oligarchs who sent millions of dollars to his family. Also include the Chinese National who were at a quarter of a Million Dollars to his son. Joe biden also led to the American People about his family making money in china. He continued to lie about it evewhen the House Oversight committee uncovered bank wires revealing how the bidens received millions from Chinese Company with significant ties to chinese intelligence and the Chinese Communist party. Just this week we uncovered two additional wire center hunter biden that originate in beijing from Chinese Nationals. This happened when joe biden wasnt running for president of the United States and joe bidens home is listed as the beneficiary address. Two dates the House Oversight minis uncovered of the bidens of their associates created over 20 Shell Companies most of which were created when joe biden was Vice President raked in over 20 million between 2014 and 2019. We have also identified nine biden Family Members who have participated in or benefited from these shady business schemes. What were the biden selling to make all this money . Joe biden himself mike joe biden is the branch of biden showed up at least two dozen times of business targets and associates sending signals of access, influence and power to those prepared to pay for it. The American People demand accountability for this cultural corruption. They demand to know how these schemes have compromised President Biden and threaten our scnational security. They demand it safeguards to be put in place to prevent Public Officials from selling access to the Public Office for private pugain. Under that leadership of speaker Kevin MccarthyHouse Republicans of open and impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden. By opening and impeachment inquiry or investigation is now focused on whether President Biden engage in Impeachable Offenses under the u. S. Constitution. It empowers congress elected by the people to continue providing the answers, transparency and accountability that the American People demand and deserve. And recent history democrats inflicted much damage on the credibility of special investigations by peddling the russian collision hoax. But this committee under this majority will not pursue such witchhunts based on manufactured allegation, innuendo, and no real evidence printed House Oversight committee will examine over two dozen pieces of amevidence revealing to bidens corruption and abuse of Public Offices includes emails, Text Messages, bank records, testimony of biden Business Associates. We will hear from legal and Financial Experts about evidence and crimes that may have been committed as joe biden was sold around the world for the House Oversight committee on the committees on judiciary ways and means will continue to follow the money and the evidence to prove accountability so americans know their Public Offices are not for sale. I now yield to jason smith the chairman of the house and means for his Opening Statement perfect thank you chairman comber. Yesterday the ways and Means Committee released new documents showing President Biden was not just aware of his sons in business dealings, but he was connected to them. In eight newly released a message to Business Executive hunter biden mentioned preserving the quote keys to my families only asset. That asset, joe biden. New evidence released in response to questions raised by members of the committee on both sides and gary shapley and joseph the two iris whistleblowers testified enjoy painting a disturbing picture of a revolving door between joe bidens office and Hunter BidensBusiness Partnership. According to a worksheet provided by irs whistleblower then vice President Bidens april 2014 official visit to ukraine occurred only days after a series of white house meetings with hunter biden and his Business Associates regarding ukraine. Shortly after joe biden returneu stateside the Ukrainian Company burisma announced Hunter Bidens appointment to its board. New evidence provided shows hunter biden using his fathers position to gain favor with a billionaire including having joe biden hosted them at the white house in february of 2014 at the Vice President s residence alongside mexican billionaire carlos in november of 2015. And then in 2016 using air force to to shuttle hunter biden and his business associate to mexico city. With its lunches, phone calls, white house meetings or official foreign trips hunter biden cashed in by arranging access to joe biden, the family brand. The biden family and associates received millions in payments from foreign sources including from russia, china, ukraine, romania and one email hunter biden even bragged to cut a deal for 10 million from Just One Company for quotes introductions alone. And yet the d. O. J. Wanted to keep the spotlight is far from joe biden as possible. One of the items we released yesterday was an irs interview with james and biden the president s brother in september of 2022. The agency was barred in the interview from asking him about joe biden on whether joe biden was involved in hunter biden deal with the Chinese Energy company. When hunter biden has Tax Liability of over 2 million paid for by kevin morris, who he barely knew, something irs investigator saw as a possible Campaign Finance violation. Assistant u. S. Attorney that when any of the agents to look into the allegation. Behind the board art notes took frt mee h notable told investigators she was not oteersonally interestedn pursuing it. This is the same attorne wolfn a email released yesterday responded to irs investigators seeking al for a searcharra with quote there should be nothing about political figure one in here. That being a reference by definition of joe biden. The biden family sold access to joe bidens power in the Biden Justice department protected the biden brand. We must continue to follow the facts. Website yield to representative jordan because i think the gentleman for yielding. This is a tale as old as time. Politician takes action that makes money for his family and then tries to conceal it. Never forget for fundamental facts but hunter biden gets put on the board of burisma, gets paid a lot of money. Hunter biden is not qualified back there with you to sit on the board, my words his words being said he got on the board not because of the brand the name braid the number three the executive asked hunter bite into white and help them with the pressure thereunder from the prosecutor in ukraine. Fact number four, joe biden goes ukraine on september 9, 2015 gives the speech attacking the prosecutor that starts the process of getting that guy fired. Those effects by the way are consistent with what the confidential human source told the fbi the fbi recorded in the 1023 form. The same form the Justice Department did not want the city can meet to secret all of those facts all that was further confirmed yesterday what the information that ways and Means Committee released the whistleblowers. Heres a communication from hunter biden to an executive with burisma. Devon i do feel comfortable with the blue star strategy and the ability of sally and karen to deliver. Burisma on touch with Blue Star Strategies what was i going to deliver . That was in a communication released yesterday as well but u. S. Officials in ukraine and in the United States need to express support for burisma to the highest level decisionmakers the president of ukraine. The president s chief of staff and the prosecutor general. That is there going to deliver. Were they successful . The interior minister confirmed hes no longer wanted. We won and less than a year. Communications from the folks at blue star and eric who is Hunter BidensBusiness Partner also a claudication that if they got done when this happened in october 2000 saltine pressures taken off the case is dropped this is the second prosecutor. Joe biden fired the first one. The second prosecutor comes in, drop the charges. That is exactly what they wanted done. And the final step, the final step is the Biden Justice department tries to sweep it all under the rug. They slow walk the investigation revealed the statue of limitations lapse for the most important years 14 and 15 the burisma ears with all the income is coming in. They try to put together the sweetheart deal to get past the judge. And we learned yesterday in the search warrant examining Hunter Bidens electronic communication they were not allowed to ask about political figure one. Political figure number one is the big guy, is joe biden. They would have gotten away with it all where they wouldve gotten away with it all except for two brave whistleblowers who sat in those seats two months ago and told her story. Their story has stood up for two brave it whistleblower a judge in delaware and said we are not going to let this happen. That is why we are here today but that is why this inquiry is so darn important. As the oldest story in the world and those are the facts i yield back. Red Opening Statement there. Thank you. Forgive my Opening Statement i have a parliamentary inquiry. Given the committee has not been authorized by the full house to conduct an impeachment inquiry am i correct an estimate we are obligated to follow the rules of the house and putting section s iii 70 of the rules in the man it was prescribed engaging personalities for the president . Than on what well, consider this an investigation of joe biden i assume his name is going to come up. Right. The house is not authorized as an impeachment inquiry so were operating with the general rules . I think saying the president lied is considered engaging in a personality. Section iii 70 says accusation the presence committed a crime or even the presence done something illegal or un parliamentary. Of we are operative the general rules of the house because the house is not authorized to. s speaker of the house has authorized the impeachment inquiry. It has been authorized. Okay all right. The Ranking Member. I believe changing of the rules must require a vote from the full house of representatives. Next rules of the committee for. A chair of the rules point of order article the impeachments are not directly before this commitment we are looking into the potential wrongdoing of the espresident. Given the unique nature subject matter of todays hearing topic these words will not be ruled out of order. Ranking member please proceed too. Thank you for clarifying mr. Chairman we obviously have an honest disagreement about that. Alright so lets get it straight we are 62 hours away from shutting down the government of the United States of america republicans are launching impeachment drive based on a long debunked and discredited live. No foreign enemy has our mouth shut on the government of the niceties nown maga republicans are about to do just that. But they do not to cut off Public Services the people denied paychecks to more than 1 million Service Members without first launching impeachment drive even when they dont have a shred of evidence against President Biden for an Impeachable Offense. You think i am being harsh . Heres what some republicans have had to say over the last week about the actions of the republicans as they watchth up the dysfunction caucus at work in the words of our gop colleague from nebraska don bacon. Clown show, foolishness, terribly misguided, stupidity, failure to lead, lunatics, disgraceful, new low, pathetic, enabling people have serious issues, those folks dont have a plan to show just how broken they are and individuals want to burn the whole place down. If i said any of these things they take my words down but these are republicans talking about republicans. So lets be clear this is not partisan warfare america sing today it is chaotic infighting between republicans and republicans. It is a maga versus extreme maga as if anybody in the real world could tell the difference between the two. What a staggering failure of leadership. Speaker mccarthys appeasement of the most fanatical elements of his conference now threaten theel wellbeing of every american. Some people think the members the gop caucus are not missing anything logical. Theyin just want to see the word burn. As alford penny werth put it in the dark night pic a method in the madness. I would get what donald trump posted a comment saying a Government Shutdown quote is the last chance to defund these political prosecutions against me and other patriots, to delay Justice Donald trump would cut off paychecks to a couple million Service Members and federal workers on furlough more than a millionna workers pay thm later for having not worked. It would help Food Assistance to millions of moms and kids keep nih in my district from enrolling any more patients and life and death Clinical Research trials. Trump is convinced of you shut government down criminal prosecutions on nine doing different misdemeanor charges will be defunded and delayed long enough to keep them from having to go before a jury of his peers before the 2024 election. Like flying monkeys on a mission for the wicked witch of the west trumps followers in the house carry his message out to the world shut down the government, shut down the prosecutions. But theres another command for his followers which brings us here today on august 27 he posted this edict, either impeach the bomb or fade into oblivion they did it to us. Of course the standard for impeachment is not whether they did it to us but whether the president committed treason or bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors but the constitution is irrelevant to them. What counts is what donald trump wants as a republican representative buck of friedrich caucus member told cnn the other day President Trump is gone on social media account and said we should be impeaching President Biden. Kevin mccarthy said we have an impeachment inquiry, you draw the conclusion directly or indirectly this impeachment inquiry was a result of President Trumps pressure. So we move from a trump ordered trump shutdowns are trump ordered impeachment process get back into the reality based world the majority sits completely emptyhanded with no evidence of any president ial wrongdoing. No smokingle gun, no gun, no smoke. In fact we have had to slide awkwardly into a house impeachment process without the benefit of the floor vote that Speaker Mccarthy insisted was absently imperative and necessary when donald trump was impeached. In fact them to the department of justice got an olc opinion saying quote note committee may undertake the momentous move legislative oversight to impeachment without the delegation by the full house. Olc opinion generate 19, 2020. That is why the house voted in the case of donald trump of that is exactly what is not happened here because they dont have the votes because dozens of republicans recognize what a futile and absurd process this is. Now, the title of the hearing as a basis for impeachment inquiry of president josephg biden. Yet they present is no basis at all today. Even after eight months of investigation. They have invited three witnesses to testify not one of them is an eyewitness to a president ial crime of any kind. Not one of them is a direct fact witness about any of the events related to ukraine ande burism. Not one of them has participated in the eight months of investigation and which are in r distinguished chairman has publicly posted that he received one 100 of everything he asked for. And i quote every subpoena i have signed as chairman of the House Oversight committee over the last five months we have gotten one her of what we have requested. Whether its with the fbi, the banks, or the treasury. That means we are theve world witnesses here. In fact the committee has received 12000 pages of bank records, here they are right in front of us. Printed doublesided not a single page shows a dime going to President Joe Biden. We have received 2000 paces of reports the chairman subpoenaed we have held hearings and conducted interviews with everybody from Hunter BidensBusiness Partners to a federal agent assigned to that investigation and still we found no evidence of wrongdoing by President Biden. Its a smoking gun or a dripping water pistol they would be presenting it today but they have got nothing on joe biden. All they can do is return to the thoroughly demolished lie that Rudy Giuliani of donald trump launched five years ago the burisma Conspiracy Theory, a fairytale so preposterous one of its main authors has now disowned and repudiated it. This is the theory vice President BidenGlobal Anticorruption groups most western governments targeted ukraine prosecutor general for removal because he was threatening the corporation whose board hunter biden served on. Trump synthesize the lie in its august 27 post about President Biden saying look, the guy got bribed he paid people off hate would give 1 billion to ukraine unless they got rid of the prosecutor. Trumps story is the opposite of the truth. When biden wasas a vp he workeds a key player in the Obama Administration and Global Community efforts to combat corruption and ukraine. In late 2015 as part of a coordinated global effort biden call for the remover of victor a corrupt ukrainian prosecutor general who did nothing about corruption in ukraine other than to participate in its. Rather than british authorities whoar were actually investigatig he consistently frustrated their efforts. The leadership provided by biden was part of a broad a Bipartisan Campaign to oppose corruption in ukraine in early 2016 republican senators ron johnson, rob portman wrote to the ukrainian president and urging them quote to press ahead with urgent reforms to the prosecutor generals office. Yet years later in 2018 President Trump sub biden is a strong rival in the 2020 election he worked with giuliani to twist all the facts around and suddenly accused biden of corruption and calling for the dismissal of a corrupt prosecutor. A few months ago chairman, the Committee Received insiders account of the plan to concoct and spread in this life from extraordinary letter sent to us it was Rudy Giulianis righthand man. They searched highar and low to find anyone who would endorse their contortions about biden. Their failing crusade culminated in the infamous phone call that then President Trump made to ukrainian president zelenskyy in which trump threatened to withhold hundreds of billions of dollars in economic strategic and military Security Assistance to ukraine unless zelenskyy embrace their ridiculous fabrication and falsely advertise to the world that ukraine was investigating joe biden. This shakedown became the basis for the first house impeachment of President Trump. Giulianis a big lie has been thoroughly debunked to bite by e sources and congressmanbi buck a former chief of the Criminal Division of the u. S. Attorneys office ince colorado and a membr of the House Freedom caucus said and i quote there is in fact no evidence that shokin was engaged investigation of burisma or that joe bidens role was in any way connected to burisma. He continued whats missing despite years of investigation is the smoking gun thatco connes joe biden to his never do wilsons corruption. It is scandalous to use impeachment to establish a counterfeit moral equivalence between President Biden and honorable Public Servant who is never been indicted or convicted of anything in his career of more than 50 years in public life and donald trump a twice impeached president has recently been found in court to have sexually abuse defamed a woman fraudulently inflated the value of his Real Estate Property while facing 91 criminal charges in four separateur indictments n everything from conspiring to overthrow the election and defraud the American People to making criminal hush money payoffs to stealing classified government documents and hiding them while obstructing justice. Impeachment is the peoples peoplesfinal weapon of constitl selfdefense against a president who behaves like a king and violates the public trust by committing treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors equivalent to them. It is reserved for extraordinary public offenses like inciting a violent insurrection against the American Government and trying to overthrow our president ial election. That offense in 2021 whose related crimes have resulted in hundreds of criminal convictions and hundreds more being prosecuted led to Donald Trumps second impeachment in the house on a massive bipartisan vote of 2322197 similarly lopsided bipartisan vote of 57 43 in the senate. I wonder how many my steamed republican colleagues here who all voted against impeaching donald trump if they were in the house at that point can reconcile their votes against impeaching trump with a grave crime of inciting a violent insurrection against the government with their call supporting impeachment of joe biden for allegedly committing a high crimes and misdemeanors is not even been defined yet much less proven. Mr. Chairman, if this dysfunction caucus is going to resist Going Forward we must receive the testimony of Rudy Giuliani. The insiders know the origins of the lie upon which the sham impeachment is based and work to spread it. We know hes ready and willing toto testify and is a former u. Attorney and mayor mr. Giuliani will surely agree to enlighten us on everything pursuant to clause to kasich of rule 11 i move the Committee SubpoenaRudy Giuliani to come and testify in these hearings. I like to ask for a boat on that or debate as you would please mr. Chairman. So be in a table it . [inaudible] park i did not hear a motion to table. The motion stands. The chair recognizes mr. Jordan i moved to table the motion. There is a motion to table the motion is there a second . Like to ask a recorded vote on the mr. Chairman. This is on subpoena of the two key figures. Key figures for what . Why President Biden should b impeached. Will be informative hearing for you we are going to present evidence. There are no fact witnesses for a quick setback like the american see the hearing let the American People. E. All right but youve got over your time. We are going to have. Working to go by the rules here. And im glad you brought the Bank Statements and we had a box all the ford money the biden circuit with a brief to the ceiling. A point of parliamentary plays by. Listen everybodys going to get five minutes for a way to present the witnesses. Everyone is going to get a chance five minutes. Let the Ranking Member go away over time in his Opening Statement. We are going to abide by the five minutes it. Is a motion on the table pay. Is a motion on the floor roll call. Its a non debatable motion on the floor. [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] but we dont have a clerk okay. With the clerk get prepared for roll call . Mr. Rat kids made a motion mr. Jordan made a motion to table it was seconded. So the vote will now be on the motion to table mr. Rat raskins motion to subpoena Rudy Giuliani. And less okay while the clerk take the role . Neither are in jail now. This is the motion to table mr. Raskins ocean [roll call] [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call] [roll call] [roll call] [roll call]. [roll call][roll call] [inaudible conversations] regular order mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman request for regular order of doctors seeking regular order mr. Chairman. We have members in route to vote. How is mr. Palmer recorded . Mr. Palmer is not yet recorded. [roll call]. Motion to close the bow. Mr. Chairman . Second period green been recorded . Xmas or german . Chair at rec and is mr. Timmons my recorded . Wisner timmons has voted yes. How am i recorded . Has voted yes. Mr. Chairman . Wild yes. The chair recognizes because how my recorded . Has voted. Parliamentary inquiry. There is a motion to close the boat it was properly seconded. With the clerk called the throle . Mr. Chairman on this about our 20 and 19 regress motion passes to table the motion. I am pleased to welcome an expert panel of witnesses who each bring experience and expertise to todays hearing. I would first like to welcome professor jonathan who is the shapiro tour for Public Interest law a George WashingtonUniversity Law school. Professors initially recognize legal scholar has published work in areas ranging from constitutional law to legal theory next we have ms. Eileen oconnor is a former assistant attorney general United States department of justice tax division. Ti as former assistant attorney general for d. O. J. Tax for six years ms. Oconnor supervised d. O. J. Litigation civil, criminal, trial appellate tax cases. Un next we have mr. Bruce is the founder of the pinsky consulting a forensic accounting. He has acumen over 40 years of financial investigative dispute consulting experience. Served as an Expert Witness over 100 times has testified over 80 trials including trials serves a professor at the university of North Carolina at chapel hill. Professor gearhart has been a law professor for more than 30 years is the author of seven books is written more thans 100 law review articles dozens of up as the nations leading publication paid pursuant to Committee Rule 9g the witnesses will please stand and raise the right hand. Do you all solemnly swear or from the testimony about to give as a truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god . Let the record show that thewitnesses all answered in the affirmative. Thank you all you may be seated. We appreciate your wellbeing here today look forward to your testimony. Let me remind the witnesses wheat ridge read your written statements they will appear in full and the statement please limit your aura seems to five minutes or as a writer please press thend button on the microphone in front of you thought of the members can hear you. We began to speak the light in front of it will turn green aperformance light will turn yellow. When the red light comes on your five minutes is expired we ask you please wrap up your testimony. I dont recognize professor turley to begin his Opening Statements. Thank you chairman comber. Ranking member at raskin, members of the committee. Its an honor to come before you today. To talk about what is undoubtedly the most weighty constitutional decision you have under article one. Other than the declaration of war. That is a potential impeachment of a president of the United States. It was roughly 25 years ago that i appeared in the impeachment proceedings with other experts in the impeachment of president william clinton. It was four years ago i appeared in the impeachment proceedings for president donald trump. And then it was just three years ago another impeachment occurred without any hearings at all. The shortening intervals between impeachments should be a cause of concern and circumspection for all members on both sides. And i want to emphasize what it is that we are here today for. This is a question of an impeachment inquiry. It is not a vote on articles of impeachment. I bet i do not believe the Current Evidence would support articles oftr impeachment. That is something an inquiry has to establish. But i also do believe that the house has passed the threshold for an impeachment inquiry into the conduct of President Biden. Having said that, i want to address three inescapable facts that led me too that conclusion. First, President Biden has indeed spoken falsely about these foreign deals the Washington Post and other newspapers have noted some of the past comments are demonstrably untrue. Second, President Biden was the focus of a multibilliondollar influence peddlingmo scheme. And then finally President Biden may have benefited from millions of dollars as a part of that scheme. Now, those facts should not be taken out of context. They are merely allegations and they should not become presumptions of impeachable conduct. Indeed as i have said in past impeachments self dealing is a difficult issue under the impeachment clause. The framers sought to avoid ambiguous standards thats one of the reasons was rejected. While it may not sit well with many President Biden and other president s can be dishonest can even lie to the American People. That would not constitute an Impeachable Offense but indeed most president s have lied to the American People. Thats why i have not liked any president james mattis. Now, dishonesty alone is not impeachable. What a layout in my testimony or what i called guard rails are best practices. Those are designed to protect this process. Frankly a number of the things i layout benefit President Biden as i say in my testimony. Because of president ial impeachment should not be ai rh to judgment. And you should avoid the type of confirmation bias that can occur in this process. This is as people say a political process but its also a constitutional process. Influence of peddling is a form of corruption per the United States has signed treaties to combat this form of corruption around the world. And that is also an inescapable fact. We need to find answers as to some of these questions. I am running out of time so i would like to make one last observation if i may. These are constitutional moments that demand the best from each of us to transcend the politics and passion of our time. I called her something that is difficult. That calls for clarity for members. We have become a nation addicted to rage and we can fuel that. This body is a powerful teacher and you can teach that or you can teach a respect for this process. It begins here and now. We can disagree with each other without hating each other. These are important issues and their close issues i think some of these issues really do gravitate in favor of the president. So i would simply say this is a moment where members and citizens can stand together that prejudging the evidence. I thank you for the honor of appearing before you today. Thank you professor, ms. Oconnor. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, members of the committee. The chairman invited me too share my thoughts on the conduct of the tax investigation into hundred biden. I make my comments on my own behalf as a private citizen and not on behalf of any person with whom or group with which i might be or have been affiliated. What it learns explains irs special agents felt compelled to report to congress about the obstruction of the criminal tax investigation i felt compelled to. To share my understanding of how things are supposed to work with people who had no reason to appreciate how disturbing whistleblowers allegations are. Without context and frame to reference it is difficult to know sometimes how seriously to take things. In october of 2022 meeting of the hunter biden is not his decision whether to bring charges to the investigation had proven should be brought. This directly contradicted attorney general garlands sworn testimony six months earlier. This was the final straw. After more than three years of having his investigation stymied but nonetheless having proven substantial criminal charges supervisory special agent realize he had to come forward. In fact he had come forward before internally within the irs. Using procedures developed for that purpose. He had complained up his chain of command as early as june 2020 about the obstruction he was encountering. But there had been no response. Once a chaplin taken subsequent board to Congress Special agent Joseph Ziegler did the same. It was not the whistleblowers testimony however but compelled me too write my first wall street journal article was called throw hundred bidens plea deal in the trash. Given the substance of the whistleblowers testimony the plea deal had worked out biden was a miscarriage of justice. After that commentary was published i heard from many people who were similarly appalled at the unfolding injustice. Many were knowledgeable and experienced tax professionals. Perhaps the most commonly commented on aspect of the handling of the hunter biden matter was weiss had permitted a statute of limitations to expire on prosecuting provable offenses. This was appalling. It is not significant the plea agreement excuse me its not insignificant the pleat agreemt was announced on june 20, lets review what came just before. On august 19 he became known irs employees were going to let Congress Know about the obstruction they were encountering. Later, they sat for hours of sworn and subscribed testimony with house ways and Means Committee staff. It was expected the committee will make the testimony public. It did on june 22. U. S. Attorney weiss with his june 20 announcement of a plea deal beat the publication of the whistleblowers testimony by the skin of his teeth, two days. The whistleblowers had not come forward, it would weiss have brought any charges at all . My second wall street journal commentary was published on jul. It was call you would go to prison for what biden did. Given what they testified they had proven in the charges the tax division reportedly had authorized the plea deal represented serious injustice but not only to law enforcement, but also to people been caught up in the system andnd have if r the consequences the law provides. I received a great deal positive feedback on this commentary too. People understand that for laws to be respected they must be enforced. The nature of any investigation as a following of leads. That did not happen here. This team was not permitted to search the guesthouse of joe bidens delaware mansion and Hunter BidensStorage Facility in virginia to interview Family Members and Business Associates, to examine Hunter Bidens abandoned laptop. By november 2019 fbi had confirmed thehe devices were hunters the contents were authentic. But the hunter biden investigation must not be viewed in isolation. Rather it is part of a broad landscape of corruption. Dont forget a full year after that in october 2020 fbi officials were telling twitter the laptop was russian disinformation. They whistleblowers tell us the tax investigation of hunter biden is an offshoot of an investigation already underway into an online pornography platform. That is how investigations develop. Agents to follow wherever the leads take them. When they take them in the direction of a new investigation they open run question, u. S. Attorney weiss had been in charge of that pornography investigation would he have walked the investigation 200 bidens taxtr crime . I think the committee. Thank you miss oconnor. Good morning chairman comber, Ranking Member raskin, distinguish members of this committee, guests and my fellow citizens but thank you for this opportunity to testify today. First at the outset let me state unequivocably and in no Uncertain Terms that i agreed to testify today not because i have a political agenda or ax to grind because i do not. Rather i agreed to testify in this proceeding in order to help this committee and the American People gain better understanding of how frauds are committed, how complex business arrangements sometimes using limited Liability Companyne sometimes hosting Shell Companies are used in fraud and how monies by fraudsters to facilitate the conduct of illicit activity. Lets be clear about prejudging the facts and merge to date with regards to the biden family associate businesses in the money they received that had its origins from foreign sources. Imth not here today to even suggest there was corruption, fraud or any wrongdoing. My opinion more information is to be gathered and assessed before i would make such an assessment. Im here today to let my expertise to lendma questions ts committee may have of the advances investigation and gather more facts about the business dealings are on the biden family and associate businesses. Throughout my career as a Certified Public Accountant forensic accountant and a certified fraud examiner i have worked tirelessly to uncover the truth when it comes to cases involving allegations of fraud, corruption and wrongdoing. Ive investigate some of the Worlds Largest fraud including having investigated testify the criminal case for the nicest department of justice on the Worlds Largest largest ponzi bird orcs in cases like the enron case, international internationalbrotherhood of tean Corruption Cases as was in the United States largest cases of tax fraud to name a a few. As h old proverb goes where theres smoke theres fire. As a fraud investigator when i see smoke i can immediately look for the fire. The critical question facing the American People today is whether behind the smokescreen cloud in the biden family and associates businesses was there or is there a fire . And if there was or is a fire big is that fire . Why were members of the biden family close Business Associates receiving bones of dollars of payments from foreign entities and individuals . Services if any were being provided . What was the substance of the alleged services being provided . Was the money being paid for a fair amount commensurate with the services . Were political favors being traded and disguised as services . These are the questions as a forensic accountant i routinely am asked to answer an empire to investigate allegations of corruption and fraud. There is a great deal of evidence been collected to date by this committee and others trying to answer these very questions. However it much more information is still needed in order to answer these questions and make a final determination as to whether or not the biden family its associate businesses were involved in any improper or illicit activities and importantly whether those activities, if any, were connected to President Joe Biden are then vice President Biden. And by expensive fraudsters have a limited Liability Company to create a network of entities that are then used to hide improper conduct. In many instances is complex business ramps are typically cey centered rent illicitit activits involve moving money around the globe in a manner designed to avoid the detection of the underlying illegal activity as well as the movement of the many types that illegal activity. Gone are theme days were the mot part suitcases full of currencies are gold bars or exchanges payment in the conduct of illegal activities. Today more sophisticated methods are employed to the true nature of illegal activities and hide the movement of money. The importance of following the trail of money as a critical component of any Fraud Investigation. The term Shell Company has its origin of the world of business and finance. The term shall as you would note implies that companies an empty shell lacking substance. Shell companies typically have no employees, no offices, or operating businesses these po boxes for mailing addresses. While i will note Shell Companies can be used for legitimate Business Activities more often than not they are so stay with lodge and activity like tax evasion, Money Laundering, hiding of assetsin another illicit practices. Take the heavy lift to pull the covers back on the Shell Companies to determine who the true Beneficial Owners are, where that money went in to expose the true sham nature ofy their existence. However the use of legal subpoenas improper investigation methods and a great deal persistence Fraud Investigation can and do expose the identity of the wizards behind these curtains and the extent of their illicit activities. In closing let me underscore the importance of conducting a thorough independent and unbiased investigation of the matter before us today before you reach any conclusions. The American People deserve to know the truth the rigor discipline of a well planned and executed should not be subverted by political motivation or aspirations. To do so would critically undermine the integrity of any such investigation and any conclusions reached. Thank you again for this opportunity to be your today i look for to answer your questions. Thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Chairman onto think the member as well distinct members of this committee. I appreciate the honor and privilege to appear before you today to talk about the basis for impeachment inquiry. The President Biden. A good place to begin is with the federalist papers. The federalist papers Alexander Hamilton warned of the dangers of trivializing impeachment through petty partisanship. He foresaw impeachment mate and now i quote, agitate the passions of the whole community and to divide into parties more or less friendly to the accused. In many cases will connect itself with preexisting factions and enlist all the animosities, impartialitys, influencing interest on one side or on the other. And in such cases there always be the greatest danger the decision will be regular at it more by the relative strength of the parties and by demonstrationsce of innocence or guilt. I think Alexander Hamilton knew what he was talking about and i think what he said may well describe the current set of proceedings. One think i might add to all of that is that the framers designed and impeachment process to follow or comply with several safeguards. At it is important we keep the safeguards in mind as these proceedings go on. The first is the necessity for credible evidence of the commission of treason, bribery, other high crimes and misdemeanors. There is not, at least not that ive yet heard such credible evidence. Let me give you an example of what i fear this is similar to the current proceedings. Hunter biden is arrested for speeding in a car owned by his father. And the police go after the father. I dont think that is how the law should work. I dont think that is how impeachment should work. I respected members of this committee enormously. I am just a law professor andpo citizen i come here with great awe and i speak to an important body like this. I listen to congressman jordan who i respectively deal he said therefore facts. Hunter biden was on the board of burisma. Hunter biden was not qualified. So far by the way nothing about President Biden. Third executives u. S. Hunter biden for help. Again not yet any proof about any kind of complicity of President Biden. And lastly joe biden gave a speech. If that is what exists as a basis for this inquiry it is not sufficient. I say that with all respect and i think that is part of the problem i think and Many Americans think may exist with respect to these proceedings. The second safeguard is the fifth amendment due process law requires fundamental fairness. And i think in these proceedings something is happened to President Biden that was said to have happened in President Trump at 2019. And that is the burden has flipped for President Biden to prove hisay innocence. Any further investigation is being done to ensure mr. Biden has to prove his innocence rather than the committee being able to connect the dots and they convincing and persuasive way its not me you have to persuade its the American People whose trust you deserve and you have to maintain. A third principle is the judicial review. And here i would just remind the committee about the decision in trump versus mays r. Mazer. The court said about this committee that in fact it has to conduct the investigation for a legitimate purpose. A fishing expedition is not a legitimate purpose. Moreover the courts said it is not a legitimate purpose for the house or House Committee to be conducting the function of law enforcement. I heard many references here to criminalist behavior. To whether or not someone should be thrown in jail, criticisms of a prosecutor mr. Weiss. That sounds like me and attempt to substitute for the proper legitimate proceedings for the house. Two other safeguards were quickly. One is these procedures aret bi based on rinse about not partisanship. And i fear we are hearing today which can be traced all the back to 2019 accusations made against President Biden were driven by partisan animosity rather than principles the final safeguard is for the full house to authorize and impeachment inquiry. That does not come from me that comes from Speaker Mccarthy. He said there should be the full house approve a construct mr. Trumps Justice Department that committee must be authorized by the full house. That has not happened here. My concern is with the constitution. That is what my devotion is too. I hope all of us understand there is nothing more serious than honoring our constitution following the design the framers gave us. Thank you picks legitimate time has expired. I do and to state the facts in 2019 d. C. District court judge ruled about a full house was not required to commence and impeachment inquiry. Well begin the question and answer phase. We have 47 members here today that are going to ask questions. We are going to abide by the five minutes. I will begin following byte Ranking Member raskin. This weeks Oversight Committee issued to the bank subpoena targeting specific wires originally from beijing. Most the bank subpoena for biden Family Associates accounts rezoning and thousands of pages of bank records weve identified these Bank Accounts based on suspicious activity reports filed with the Treasury Department after being flagged by the banks. The bank records obtained this week show on august two, 2019 jonathan lee and beijing sent hunter biden 250,000 listing joe bidens home address in wilmington, delaware the wire stated it was for a personal investment. A second wire showed on july 26, 2019 sent 10,000 dollars listing joe bidens home address in wilmington, delaware. 10,000 dollars wired said it was a loan to beneficiary. Lets talk by 2,050,000 personal investment picture looks like jonathan lee was making a substantial investment in the bidens a month after joe biden announced his run for the presidency in april 2019. Investment in the biden family after joe biden announced his run for the presidency in april of 2019. Who is jonathan lee . During the devon archer interview, he explained how vice President Biden developed a relationship with jonathan lee. Joe biden had coffee with jonathan lee in beijing. He talked with him on the phone and wrote a College Recommendation Letter for the children of mr. Lee. Hunter biden relationship with jonathan lee and others for one reason and one reason only, to access the web and we all know they had nothing to sell except the brand, which was joe biden. Hunter biden sold the brand well, making the biden family millions from china and elsewhere. While joe biden was Vice President , he became an investor in a fund with jonathan lee and i would a percentage of the partners that one of his many llcs. This was a political problem for his dad who was runningan for president. In october 2, 0192 months after, his lawyer claimed he served only as a member of the board of directors position. The money is adopting from a private individual. The statements are very concerning and the justification for the money isnt consistent with what we know from this suspicious activity report from treasury. Im skeptical of the statement that the quarter Million Dollar payment from jonathan and another woman was a loan because it states it was a personal investment. Weve reviewed documents that dont support the theory. In your experience are International Loans of thisn amount supported by documentation such as loan terms, Interest Rates and repayment schedule . Yes, mr. Chairman. You typically would see that, documents with of the Interest Rates, terms of repayment, all of those. Would it be important to reviewye the bank records and se if he paid back the money or send the money to someone else, i dont know, using a cashiers check for example . Its very important to follow the money. Thats very important in this situation. We all know what the payment is for. Its important handling selling the biden brand. Today weve shown the family and their companies received more than 15 million without providing known legitimate services between 2014 and 2019. If you included the Business Associates and companies they received over 24 million. Based on evidence so far, what are some of the potential laws we should be analyzing during the impeachment inquiry . Thank you, mr. Chairman. I laid out the most obvious articles of impeachment without saying theyve been established, but the ones that i recommend for the committee to focus on and one thing i recommend is the committee starts by looking at potential crimes. Ive said that in the past two impeachments that its an important thing to fund low criminal actss for the reasons i laid out it gives a very High Standard for impeachment quite frankly, higher than its binding and the last two impeachments you cant impeach forve noncriminal conduct, so i suggest starting there. But as i talked about in my testimony, bribery, obstruction, conspiracy, abuse of power, those have all been raised in past impeachments. Abuse of power is the article that is very common. It doesnt have to be a catchall and its the one ive always been a little uncomfortable with and why i suggest you and they are rather than start because that is the article that brings in the noncriminal conduct and frankly i think you need to focus as much as you can on the evidence and whether you can establish these connections. Thank you. The chair recognizes the gentleman from maryland. Professor gearhart, has there ever been in impeachment process in the middle of a Government Shutdown . No. Why didmr the office of Legal Counsel opine that there must be a vote at the house before a committee launches into an impeachmentpr investigation . Why did the Speaker Mccarthy insist on it and in fact say that there would be one in this case . I think the office of Legal Counsel said that at least in part because the impeachment inquiry is deadly serious. It is about the most serious thing in any House Committee ever undertaken and one safeguard against the, committe acting on the basis of just lets say the Party Membership is to ensure that the full house houseis behind the impeachment inquiry. A dozen of our colleagues on the republican side have already called for impeachment, except by the fact of the four Expert Witnesses brought together today, not a single one of them argued that a sufficient quantum of evidence exists today to justify the impeachment of President Biden. Is there any precedent from launching an impeachment inquiry absent evidence of wrongdoing by thee president . Know, and i would point out Richard Nixon and bill clinton and President Trump in 2019 the full house authorized those impeachment inquiries. A letter addressed to the chairman and which he said the narrative you are seeking for this investigation has been proven false many times over by a wide array of respected sources. Theres simply no merit to investigating this matter. And heg says please abandon ths effort to investigate the bidens, which is nothing more than a wild goose chase and he was Rudy Giulianis right hand man gallivanting all over the worldd trying to put together a case back in 2019 to joe biden that hed done something wrong. Do you agree that given that the evidence weve looked out over the eight months comes down to this discredited burissma conspiracy three. We should hear from those responsible for concocting the story in the first case specifically. Absolutely. What do you think about the fact that the very first act of the committee and its impeachment investigation was to reject the idea of subpoenaing Rudy Giuliani at the heart of the story that is the basis for impeachment . I think if theres going to be an investigation into the president , all the evidence, all the participants, anyone that has knowledge should be spoken to. We have lots of colleagues on the committee and off the committee who called for the impeachment of joe biden, who also voted against impeaching donald trump for insulating a violent insurrection against the union. Hundreds of people have gonevo o jail in subsidiary acts under the umbrella of that insurrection process. Now, can you come up with a fury that allows someone to say i am going to vote to impeach joe biden for offenses unstated and evidence unknown, but i will oppose and vote against the impeachment of donald trump for insulating a violent insurrection, which isev somethg that concurrent bipartisan majorities voted for in the house and the senate. I might add as a law professor that one of the things i suggest to my students in trying to assess the constitutionality of any governmental action is to takeon the names out, switch the names or the Political Party and to see if the outcome is the same. So if joe biden incited a violent insurrection and said fight and fight like hell and if you dont, you wont haves, a country anymore, would you consider that in the ensuing mayhem and chaosos to be an impeachable event or not . Absolutely. To your mind and applying them all to the facts, have you seen any evidence that joe biden has done anything remotely comparable to what donald trump did that earned him his impeachment in the bipartisan vote in the house . Ive not and i just might add, with all due respect, i heard the phrase biden family many, many times. But i dont know who the biden family is. I dont know who is being referenced. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, i would like to move for unanimous consent july 18, 2023 letter to you and to me and the rest of the committee into the official record of this proceeding. Without objection, so ordered. The chair recognizes the chair of the ways and Means Committee, jason smith, from missouri for five minutes. Thank r you, mr. Chairman. It is amazing to be sitting in your committee. Its a pleasure to be here. Yesterday, we had a committee to release over 700 pages of documents that came from the two irs whistleblowers. Pl based on the last oversight hearing when they presented before this committee, members both republican and democrat asked for Additional Information and they provided it and brought it forward. What was interesting is the other side of the aisle actually mentioned trump a whole lot more than they ever mentioned biden and its happening over here so i think it is consistent in the ways and Means Committee end of the Oversight Committee. But ms. Comer, if yesterday the ways and Means Committee voted to release Additional Information provided like i said by gary shapley and mr. Ziegler, one of the documents shows that assistant u. S. Attorney leslie wolf ordered investigators not to pursue a lead into possible campaignfinance violations. We know that over 2 million of hunter biden tax liabilities were paid off by a Big Democratic Party donor and hollywood lawyer, who is named kevin morris. James biden, the president s brother, told investigators he didnt know how hunter biden even knew this individual but was later asked to thank him for the payment, quote, on behalf of the family. The biden family. So, how would such payments that essentially pushed under the rug the president s sons tax problems at least for one year to be considered a Campaign Finance violation on part of the Biden Campaign . Thank you for the question. I have no idea. I thought you were going to ask me why was leslie wolf saying dont look into that and the answer to that is probably if it is a Campaign Contribution that implicates political person number one and the apparently as a barrier thats been created through this entire investigation made 2 million was to satisfy two years in unpaid taxes. Is it unusual for an assistant prosecutor to say dont look at this individual, this persons offlimits . As i mentioned in my Opening Statement that is how investigations develop. It follows wherever they take them and in this case a legitimate investigation was being done of money that was being paid and for the assistant u. S. Attorney who is orchestrating the investigation to say dont look at that anymore. I think the regulation is to another instruction of hers that she didnt want to get Public Integrity involved and that tells us she was looking beyond hunter biden and into a person whose activities would be subject to Public Integrity. One thing i want to ask, since you worked tax division for doj, if kevin morris gave a gift of 2 million to help pay off hunter biden debts, who has to report that on their taxes . Does mr. Morris have to report it or hunter biden . As i understand it, the parties are claiming that it is a loan and hunter biden will pay it back between 2020 like would not have to be reported on any text record . If it is a loan, no. But i havent seen any of the documentation of that loan. Thats one im sure mr. Dubinsky can tell you calling something a loan is to claim its not a taxable income. One quick question, you know, we uncovered yesterday that the biden family and associates received over 20 million from 23 Different Countries that they had business ties to or communications with, and they also had over 20 llcs where they would transfer money and then out. If you were still sitting in your office and the tax division, would this web of entities and activities concern you . I would make sure that my prosecutors were concerned about it. Thank you. The chair recognizes ms. Norton from the district of columbia. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Professor gerhardt, pleased to have you with us today. In your testimony, you referenced Alexander Hamiltons warning about the dangers of trivializing impeachment through petty partisanship. Let me ask you, mr. Gerhardt, do you think that initiating and impeachment inquiry againstyo resident biden without any evidence of wrongdoing by the president needs any basic standard of proof . Not credible proof at all in my opinion. And in fact i think one thing to keep inan mind about any kind of impeachment inquiry is the critical importance of Building Public trust and that gets built in part on the basis of credible evidence. Welcome the professor gerhardt, what is the risk to our constitution and even for the rule of law if impeachments are initiated without any evidence of wrongdoing by a president . They trivialize impeachment and the constitution and arrived byover the rule of law. Nothing good comes from abusing a power, but its done by president or by congress. Professor gerhardt, do you believe that initiating and impeachment inquiry without any evidence of wrongdoing by president is consistent with the view that impeachment is a grave and solemn duty . It is a grave and solemn duty and all of the reasons the evidence related to burisma ought to be heard and considered. That would actually add credibility to what the committee is doing. I would be remiss if i did not add that we are holding this sham hearing two days before the government will shut down. Instead of this hearing, we could be discussing how to fund the government, or we could discuss the bill to exempt the federal government shut down from federally and independent agencies that are exclusively or primarily funded but have jurisdiction over civil and criminal Justice Matters or we could be discussing how we are going to provide backpay to federal contract workers if republicans unfortunatelyly do push us into adi shut down. Instead, we are holding this sham hearing. I yield the remainder of my time to mr. Raskin. Thank you, kindly, ms. Norton for that. Mr. Comer referred to a 2019 why your to President Biden while he was not in office. He was a private citizen, so it was hunter biden. Hunter biden has never held Public Office. Mr. Smith mentioned a doj email from 2020 during the Trump Administration. So, professoriv gerhardt, what o you make of the idea of impeaching a president while hewas in office for something tt his son did or may have received when the president wasnt in office . Its not consistent with the american legal system. Imagine if the names are switched. Mr. Smith talked about 20 million that he thought hunter biden had received and put in the names of different Family Members. I think the Washington Post debunked that as recently as this began saying it was eight or 9 million but lets say it is worth 20 million. That is 1 of the 2 billion that was brought back by Jared Kushner to a company that he created the day after the Trump Administration ended. But assuming there were no other evidence, would it be fair to attribute that to billion dollars that Jared Kushner dropped in with the Management Fee every year, would it be fair to attribute all of that to donald trump because its his soninlaw . No, not without any evidence showing the president actually knew it. The principle of american law is people are responsible for their own conduct and not they condut of their adult children; is that right . Thats correct. Thank you to the gentleman for yielding i yield back. The chair of the House Judiciary Committee from ohio. Thank you. Professor gerhardt, it wasnt just a speech. He leveraged 1 billion of american tax money, and he did so at a time when our government was supported by the prosecutor. Heres what our government said. The secretary of state we have been impressed with the ambitious reform and its a corruption agenda of your government right into the prosecutor general who joe biden leverages money. The United States fully supports your effortsbe to fight corruptn and further wrote the inner Agency PolicyCommittee Said this on october 1st, 2015. The ipc recommends moving forward with a guaranteed to ukraine in the near term. The end even after joe biden gives the speech, on december 9, the European Commission said of the report said the anticorruption benchmark is deemed to have been achieved from ukraine. But the most telling evidence is what his Business Partner said. Devon archer, when we deposed him under oath two months ago, the question was help from the United States government to deal with the pressure they were under from their prosecutor. You know what mr. Archers response was . Thats correct. Next question. What did hunter biden do after he was given that request . He called his dad. Thats what we are investigating. Thats one of the three things professor turley talked about, the influence peddling scheme. I want to go to those three things. False statements, scheme and joe biden might have been at it. The 31st, cannot benefit the family cannot benefit you . Theres been a repeated statement that you need to show that President Biden accepted direct money in order for this to constitute a benefit even underr criminal cases that deal with bribery extortion. The courts actually have rejected that. They said that money going to Family Members is in fact a benefit and i dont really see any legal basis for that. The strongest case is if you have a direct payment, but this idea that you can have millions going to a politicians family and thats notot a benefit i thk is pretty fallacious. You said to the extent that the president has used i think this is brought her to the extent the president used the white house staff to maintain false claims or resist disclosures can fit into the type of abuse of power model. We know all kinds of false statements have been made. Joe biden made it. The lousy question when theyve asked if you ever talked to your sons Business Partners. We know that was false. If the claim aside the president s confident his son didnt break the law. The secretary said he never spoke to his son about his overseas business dealings. What do you think about those false statements from the white house in this abuse of power issue . The involvement of white house staff and executive branch staff has been one of the tripwires we saw to some extent even in clinton the degree to which for a false to congress can go into things like abuse of power. One of the things i suggested is if you look at past impeachment inquiries and once again this is to find evidence you are not voting on articles of impeachment, those allegations tend to develop last. How about the attorney general . Im concerned about the statements he made march 1st, 2023 in front of the senate he atwas asked a question about the investigation. He said this inge response. Mr. Weiss can if he feels it is necessary. The attorney general told us that weiss had the authority because i promised him he would have the authority if he asked it. That seems to be something different. What he said to the senate got full authority, no problem. Last week you told the house auJudiciary Committee he had authority because they promised if he came talk to me i would give him authority that i already told of the senate he had. You can see concern there with false statements coming from the Biden Justice department. There is a concern. You dont have to prejudge the evidence that obviously this is part of the inquiry. End but i dont understand is the opposition to the inquiry itself. It seems to mepa the test is wht the alleged conduct, if proven, establish Impeachable Offenses, and is there a credible basis for those allegations. I think the answer is clearly yes, that there is a basis to look at the president s conduct without prejudging whether that qualifies at the beginning of that inquiry is an article of impeachment. Lets be clear, you dont need a full vote to the constitutional duty to do oversight. In fact, the democrats did it for years ago i was in an impeachment deposition run by adam schiff in the bunker in the basement of the capital, and i went to the floor. In impeachment a deposition and i went to thefo floor to vote on opening and impeachment inquiry. They did the same thing, because you have that authority is a congress and when the speaker of the house makes the designatio. The speaker, nancy pelosi commended in fact initiate the impeachment and in some cases you have a later vote. Ive said in my testimony, i consider that the best practice, to have a vote of the house. Buthm the court that was referenced earlier looked at this and said that the constitution does not require resolution. Is that if you look at all the impeachments often there wasnt a resolution. That doesnt mean its not in Good Practice but the constitution itself does not such a resolution. Thank you. The chair recognizes mr. Lynch for five minutes. I do want to agree with the chairman at the witnesses we have here today do bring an awful lot of experience and expertise to the issue. What they dont bring are the facts. They dont bring evidence. None of you are able to really elucidate or illustrate actions by the president with respect to this inquiry. Ms. Oconnor, i do want to ask one clarification. You mentioned in your oral testimony that you had written a commentary entitled you would go to prison for what biden did. That was you would go to prison for what hunter biden did . Thats exactly right. I was cutting words [laughter] thats an important word that you left out though. It is. I regret it. I would like to enter into the record of that unanimous consent of without objection. The article is we would go to prison for what hunter biden did. I think thats an important word, yeah. Thank you. I didnt delete it intentionally. Reclaiming my time. So, when i walked into this hearing room, my first question was wheres rudy, wheres Rudy Giuliani. This is supposed to be an inquiry on the facts against the president for potentially and impeachment, articles of impeachment. And the one person, the one person who was an agent of President Trump was sent to ukraine to dig up some dirt, find some dirt on joe biden, just like he said to the Election Officials in georgia, find me 11,780 votes. Find me some dirt on joe biden, and we dont have it here. We are not allowed to ask him questions. Professor gerhardt, would it not be helpful to have a factual witness here, who was let me just read from this is an excerpt of the call between mr. Trump and president zelenskyy. He says rudy very much knows whats happening, and hes a very capable guy. If you could speak to him, that would be great. The other thing. Theres a lot of talk about bidens son, that biden stopped the prosecution a lot of people want to find out about that. So whatever you can do with of the attorney general, and rudy would be great. So hes actually placing Rudy Giuliani in ukraine with the authority of the president. Wouldnt that be a useful witness . It seems obvious he should be brought before the committee. Yeah, you would think so. What we hear is a lot of allegations. Ive heard about emails from hunter biden from china, hunter biden cashed in, you know, the irs interview with james biden. I hear a lot about the biden family. But look, this is an impeachment inquiry about President Biden. And i would try to discern what the allegations are for the president because they are nonexistentt at this point. Is there a reason, the other question is why hasnt Rudy Giuliani if he isth a key witnes it was on the ground with direct authority from the president , why isnt he here . I think, and professor gerhardt, maybe you could elucidate on this. Rudy giuliani also lost 60 cases. He wrote 60 cases across the United States with respect to todays lie, and he was a midwife for the big lie. He wrote 60 cases and lost them all for lack of evidence. Then, so that i believe hurts his credibility; does it not . It does. His credibility has been heard in a number of ways. He also made allegations against dominion voting machines, and now hes being sued by them because he falsely declared that of those machines were unfairly helping President Biden; isnt that right . Thats right. Wouldnt that also lead to a drop in credibility on behalf of mr. Giulianis testimony . I i agree with you, and i would add a because mr. Giuliani is a lawyer, he has to abide by and comply with the rules of conduct and hes in trouble because he hasnt. All right. The gentle means time is expired. The chair recognizes the chairman of the house intelligencean committee mr. Turner from ohio. Professor turley. Thank you foror the materials you provided the committee. Your legal analysis is first of in an incredible and its historic foundations but also its legal descriptions of the aspect of how do you conduct the impeachment investigation and what are the standards for the impeachment investigation. And taking some of the public facts that you are aware of and comparing them to the Congressional Authority and oversight responsibilities. I think it really does help the overall discussion, and i think there is validity to the need for the committee to move forward on the investigation as you look to historically whatsi happened before. You mentioned in your Opening Statement about your description that i think is important to focus on in trying to guide our investigation. You said its not criminal for a president or Vice President to lie. You also said its not criminal that hunter biden received someone paying the child of a viceig president for doing nothg isnt necessarily criminal, but those are my words, not yours. But you did take the next leap that using your office, taking official actions to benefit individuals or third parties to induce them to benefit your family would be a crime, what it not, professor . It is. If you take a look at some of thefi treaties and sources, the United States has combatedto influence peddling is a prototypical form of public corruption. Much influence peddling follows that pattern. The credit many people except what hunter biden did was rather wrong and open influence peddling so the only question is was the president involved in that. But now that you hear that they were just selling the illusion of access. The fact is you have to ask yourself one question. How do you know, even if you accept that selling the illusion of access is not misconduct, how do you know it was an illusion . There is also another concerning aspect of President Joe Bidens actions as Vice President for which there is currently an active criminal investigation and that is his misuse of classified documents. There has been appointed by the department of justice and attorney generals special prosecutor for the purpose of investigating the federal crime that could have arisen as a result of this president s misuse of classified documents to the fact that he had them at the center for diplomacy and globalth engagement and private residence of President Joe Biden asas well as other matters one f those other people happens to be hunter biden. The committee and its scope of the investigation indicates that these classified materials are also relevant because for example the Oversight Committee requested information regarding the material discovered in the president s home where his son resided in the time period relevant to the investigation and personal office. The white house hasnt provided this information. His son was receiving payments from romania, russia, ukraine, china. If in those documents that relate to, for example, the prosecutor in ukraine were burisma itself or other aspects of ukraine or of the other parties and individuals that were making payments to hunter biden, that would be relevant, wouldnt it . It wide. One of the things i address in my testimony, the most concerning line for me in this inquiry is pre office conduct and what i say there should be the type of presumption against bringing in the office conduct but there is precedent for it when it forms. He wouldnt have had access. He had the documents given to him. Theres been a lot of talk perhaps the president inadvertently ended up with these documents. There is an unbelievable number hes clearly a documented holder. Can you infer intent by the knowledge of the law that President Biden knows how to handle and what mishandling is. Wouldnt that be attributed to the event . That goes to the question of establishing intent and in these cases you dont have a confession. Im not sure if it will become relevant to the impeachment inquiry. I said earlier the issue that concerned me about the document that they ended up being distributed to different sources it appears they went to different locations and there are accounts of being in the president s home. Were they divided and why but its not clear to me whether that would amount to an impeachable opens or not. Ive seen some of the documents. They are of the highest level of concern and threat to national security. We have to get to the bottom of why was he taking these and what was he doing with them. Mr. Chairman, unanimous consent of motion. Unanimous consent to introduce page 131 of the transcript of the testimony where the question is asked but he didnt provide the executives with actual access to his father. The access to his father was an illusion. The gentleman is out of order. Mr. Conley from virginia for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The clock is ticking. What is the objection . You are taking time away from me unfairly. Hold onto those words, distract and deflect because i think this hearing is all about look over here, not over there. So, professor ive heard concerns about branding. Shouldnt we be concerned about all of those powers all over the world where foreign partnerships were formed and if used here in the United States, ive seen these powers in indonesia and the philippines to turkey. Inc even saw one in chicago. Shouldnt that be a source of concern of this committee in terms of imports foreign and domestic where President Biden became president . I think youre talking about mr. Trump. When President Biden appointed his son to manage u. S. Foreign policy in the middle east peace, by the way, his son who couldnt qualify for getting a security clearance, but he apparently granted it anyhow. Then after getting a two billiondollar deal we are told with foreign money shouldnt we look at hunter biden for that given the fact that he handled . It should have been a concern with his soninlaw. I got that wrong again. Ive heard again hes not prejudging of course but hes just suggesting that maybe we want to look into criminal activity like obstruction, fraud and abuse of power. Lets take fraud. Shouldnt we be concerned that a judge found President Bidens organization committed fraud every year for the last ten or 15 years and that under the martin law in new york, that Biden Organization is not subject to dismemberment because of the fraudulent activity . Shouldnt that be a concern to us . That should be a concern with respect to mr. Trump. Mr. Trump again. We are not case speculating a judge actually made that ruling . Yes. Should we be concerned about the personal, since we are at this, should we be concerned about the personal behavior for example, President Trump or president it biden being found guilty of a Sexual Assault and defamation associated with that activity again in a civil court in this case in new york . It should be aul concern as t relates to mr. Trump. I just think that one of the reasons we are here is because somebody has been indicted in four different locales and sets of concerns. One involving sexual behavior and one on actual corporate fraudulent activity. We dont want to talk about any of that. We want to speculate about discredited testimony from discredited witnesses like Rudy Giuliani who are afraid to subpoena. Thats what this is all about. About all i need to defend joe biden. Its there needed to make sure we get on topic and we no longer talk about the pending criminal trials of the former president of the United States, and if anything is worthy of examination, that is, not this. I yield back. The chair recognizes mr. You are out of order, mr. Goldman. When your time is [inaudible] the chair recognizes mr. Donalds for five minutes. The rules require you to recognize no. If they ask for a point of order, you absolutely do. [inaudible] i request the clock be set back to five minutes. Can i just inquire are we not to make points of order on either side . You keep speaking about no evidence. Ve why dont you will just listen . Im trying to introduce that evidence. Youve already had your share of evidence. Mr. Donalds, five minutes. Ab thank you,ce mr. Chairman. Mr. Dubinsky, i want to come to you quickly. A lot of evidence. On the screens we have an organizational chart from the irs Investigative Team looking into the Business Practices of hunt biden and his associates. This chart is from 2014. Now in my former life i was in Community Banking and im comfortable looking at organizational charts. When i saw the chart what i thought about is a Real Estate Holding company and this isnt to demean and the great state of america, but developers typically have multiple companies that have various businessal interests. In the business of feelings there is no real estate. None at all. So in your professional experience looking at this organizational chart of structure, what do you see . A very complicated structure of entities that are interrelated and would give me concern. If i were an investigator i would want to know whos going and what is the substance of the transaction and what is going on here. Do you think it is in the interest of the committee that is now in an inquiry to find out all of the flow of money and what the purpose was . Absolutely. Next slide. For my colleagues on the other side, we are going to Start Talking evidence. This is a slide of the chart of the hunter biden Business Companies and with associates from 2018, from the same irs investigators who worked on the Business Structure in 2014. Does this because you the same concern . Yes it does. Now lets talk about a point i want to make on this. Ladies and gentlemen, i know its kind of small so i will submit this for the record and let my colleagues on the other side see this. In 2141 of the key orders was devon archer who did testify and was under deposition under oath by the Oversight Committee. In 2018 comment devon archer is no longer listed but his wife is listed. When you see a situation where ownership interest moves from one to the other is that a concern of some level of fraud potentially . I would call it a red flag and again try to get to the bottom of what happened. Was it the transfer, money behind it, what was going on . Next slide. This is a text message between naomi biden, thats what this one is. This is a message between joe biden and hunter biden. It clearly says we can talk later but youve been drawn into mething for the purpose of protecting dad. This is between hunter biden and joe biden. Last time i checked the father of joe and jim has passed away so im assuming hes saying to the president s brother youve been brought in for the sole purpose of protecting dad. Missus oconnor, do you think that this would lead the committee to get further information about the business dealings of hunter biden and how that actually links to the theydents brother and why are so concerned with protecting dad the president of the United States . Yes. Thank you. Next slide, please. This is a text message between hunter biden and naomi the biden. Everybody knows this one. This one says i hope you all do what i do and pay for everything for this entire family for 30 years. Its really hard, but dont worry. Y. Unlike pop, i wont make you give me half your salary. Mr. Dubinsky, if you saw a text message like this and a potential Money Laundering operation are potential paver play operation, would you be looking for information related to money going from son to father . Absolutely without a doubt. Thank you. Next slide. This is a fun one. Ladies and gentlemen, this one is from 2018, about four months before joe biden launched his campaign for president o the United States. December, 2018. The highlight this is a text message between jim biden and hunter biden. Hunter biden by the way he was ally strong out. He lost a bunch of mey. He needed help. Jim biden said this can work. You need a safe harbor. I can work with your father alone. It will probably take several months and everybody can read the text. Missus oconnor and mr. Dubinsky, if you saw messages like this between the president s brother and president s son, wouldnt you be concerned about them trying to give plausible deniability for the president of the United States to not have any knowledge of said business dealings . The time is expired but please answer the question. Its worth investigating. Mr. Dubinsky . I would agree i would investigate this. The gentleman yields back. Before i recognize, i will give you an opportunity to recognize you for your point of order. I just want to make sure page 131 of the transcript of devon archer interview is entered into the record. Without objection, so ordered. The chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois. He is not a federal official, right . A special counsel investigating hunter biden recently indicted him for various illegal acts. Im sure you are aware. But nowhere in Hunter Bidens indictment is there any allegation of joe biden having committed any wrongdoing, right . Thats correct. Not a parking ticket, moving violation, not a high crime or misdemeanor. On page 19, you said, quote, the Current Record does not establish any crime, let alone an Impeachable Offense. Lets explore whats been established about joe biden. The hill reports senator marco rubio, quote, noted that House Republicans are discussing a specialst impeachment inquiry to obtain evidence of criminal behavior but theyve not been able to dig up through the House Oversight committee. He warned setting up a special impeachment counsel without strong evidence of a crime could trivialize the process. Senator rubio is a republican, right . Yes, sir. Lets talk about whether theres evidence mr. Rubio referring to exists. A Senior Member of the Judiciary Committee said the following regarding evidence linking President Biden doing an alleged crime. Quote, that doesnt exist right now. Mr. Buck is republican, right . Yes, sir. Senator mitt romney of utah said, quote, there hasnt been any allegation yet, any conduct that reaches the constitutional standard for impeachment. And mitt romney is a republican as well; correct . Yes, sir. Let me turn to another topic. Here i have a poster of an entry from your professional linked in account. Theres your picture, and it says law office of eileen oconnor. Weve printed what you posted roughly one week ago. It says, quote, the Biden Administration is promoting and enabling the invasion. Thats what your post says, right . Yes it does. And it further goes on to saa if this doesnt stop quickly, then the entire usa will be invaded with millions of military age men from countries ready to cause total havoc while getting paid 2200 a month and welfare to do so. Did i write that . You read posted it and said it iss a death spiral. Let me show you another posting that you put up on your professional may i respond . You can respond when im done with my questioning. [inaudible] mama, this is another posting from your professional linked in account that says announcing michigan telephone to raise funds for 16 alternate electors that she wants to jail. Thats your professional account, right . D it is. Let me turn to you, mr. Turley. Professor turley, in 2006, you wrote an oped in the guardian entitled, quote, stop persecuting polygamists. They are you like and polygamists to, quote, persecuted minorities and said polygamy is a practice with deep and goodfaith religious meanings. Isnt that what you said . I represented the sister wives family in challenging a polygamy persecution the answer is yes. Youve been crusading for legalizing polygamy for years. In fact, in an oped in the usa today, you said a utah polygamist named tom green was also convicted of pedophilia for raping his 13yearolded stepdaughter shouldnt have been charged with polygamy. Mr. Chairman can i respond . I criticized him. What i was dealing with was the constitutionality of what is calledou the morals legislation. And i admit im pretty libertarian [inaudible] was he convicted of pedophilia and rape . The answer is yes. Mr. Chairman, we are counting down the hours until a Government Shutdown and here we have a hearing where we have one witness that defended a polygamist who was convicted of pedophilia and rape and we have another witness with accounts with extreme views posted. I think that unfortunately, this speaks to the credibility of the witnesses and the credibility of this impeachment inquiry. I yield back. Point of order. The chair recognizes mr. Biggs. Mr. Chairman, when a member of the committee in humans the integrity of a witness is it against the rules to allow those witnesses to respond to that malicious statement . [inaudible] im not asking you. Im asking the chairman for a ruling on that. He can use his own time to question then when he wants. I was recognized on a point of order. Whats your point . My point is [inaudible] the witnesses have the opportunity to address that during a line of questioning. If mr. Turley wants to address that during another line of questioning that he is more than welcome to do that. We are under a five minute clock, and now the chair recognizes ms. Mace from south carolina. Thank you, mr. Chairman. In 2019, representative raskin didnt think a vote was needed for the impeachment inquiry. And to quote representative raskin, he said in 2019 there is no formal prosecution no statutory or even a house rule for how in impeachment inquiry is to begin. So that means Different Things to different people. I dont want to hear another word from anyone on the other side of the aisle about an impeachment inquiry. This is hypocrisy this morning. Today we are going to bring the facts. Today we are going to bring the evidence. In 2017, the joe biden family teamed up with Chinese Company, cfc, to make millions of access to joe biden. Hunter even arranged for joe biden to Share Office Space with of theed aligned company cfc. My democratic colleagues say none of this is relevant because joe biden wasnt Vice President while his family did these shady deals. It turns out that is complete and utter bowl, its alive. Mohunter biden referred to acces to his father as the keys to his families only asset. Those words are going to come back andan haunt hunter biden ad his family forever. Yesterday the ways and Means Committee had an interview with tony, a former biden partner in crime. I will read a bit of that right now. The work conducted by cefc, hunter biden, james biden in the preceding two years was discussed in detail. In particular, cefc was causing significant investment deals in poland, kazakhstniand of the middle eastern period. In the reference to 2015 2016, guess what,cloe biden was Vice President. As an aside, in previous testimony, they also confirmed that the joe biden attended a meeting with the head of the cfc, so now we know they were working with the biden family while he was Vice President. I will continue reading from the report, which says, and i quote, hunter biden amanda james biden did not receive compensation because joe biden was still vico president during this time period. There was a concern that it would be improper for payments to be made to hunter biden and james biden by cefc due to its close affiliation with the chinese government. Hunter biden and james biden both wanted to be compensated for the assistance they had provided to cefcs venturers, n particular they believed cefc owed them money for the benefits that accrue to the cefc. It reduced the name to advance business dealings. The bidens coincidentally were paid over a Million Dollars by ccp affiliated the Chinese Companies cefc shortly after joe biden left office as Vice President. Now we know why, because it was back pay. And another image, this is a text message between hunter biden and an agent of cefc. Hunter says my uncle will be here with his brother, in all caps, who would like to say hello to the chairman. He goes on, jims brother, if hes coming wants to say hello. His uncles brother. I wonder who that could be. I cant quite figure it out. He his brother and all caps and it doesnt take a genius to figure this out, but since im not always dealing with geniuses in washington, d. C. As illustrated today, i will spell it out. The brother of hunters uncle, jim, is joe biden. Why was hunter so secretive about his father . Im going to tell you why. Its because joe biden didnt want the American People to know he and his family were getting paid millions and millions of dollars from a company closely tied to the Chinese Communist party. Cefc new paying biden Family Members was bad, so they covered it up. Hunter knew joe biden hanging out with ccp businessmen would be a bad look so he tried to pull a genius move with this uncles brother bull. D we know the president took bribes from burisma and i also want to add betraying your countryha is treason. Mr. Chairman, i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record the text message between hunter biden and gongwen dong and the interview with tony showing joe bidens connections to cefc during the vice presidency. Without objection, so ordered. In some circumstances illegal. But its something made public. The public does not buy into the day you can sell your family brand if its influence peddling. So what happens with influence peddling often of the commission of crime and to conceal it. And to take stepse so it is not public. That may include but is not necessary the reason in this case. It may include the failure to pay taxes a failure to register as a Foreign Agent. Part of the purpose of an inquiry lead to find others that linkage between those acts the more portly the linkage to the president can i briefly respond to the earlier attack, he may have additional questions or dont take your time for because mr. Chairman . Rex im sos over time. We will work with you on that because i do think you need to respond to that ridiculous statement. Tocchet recognizes mr. Connor for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Turley, you testified or in your written statement about best practices for the house. You say set legally required for the house to vote to have an impeachment inquiry but it is a best practice. Could you explain why you think its a best practice for the u house to have that boat . Rex certainly. But the courts have said its not required as you noted. Its not a condition for this initiation of inquiry. I just think it is a Good Practice. Whether it occurs after the initiation. Still a vote of the entire house brings the weight of the decision. I do think its one of the best practices i suggested in my testimony. What would it mean hypothetically they had a vote in 10 or 20 people voted for it. Youre a student of constitutional history but with that say . Why is it important in your view as a best practice to have majority support for Something Like this . The country expects members to take this process seriously. Part of that is to go on the record whether you believe there theres grounds for an inquiry. In terms of best practices. That gets the weight of the house is effort. The reason i criticize figure pelosi. It would give you pause if there was ath vote they didnt think there should be an inquiry. You get that weight as a constitutional scholar, correct . The house is about he said there should not be an inquiry then clearly that has on the merits it would be your recommendation to Speaker Mccarthy today to bring up that vote, correct . I always sent a thought as a best practice it. And with your recommendation him today he is listening im sure his staff are would be bring that vote to the house floor . I always think its a good idea. It would be your testimony based on what you said that if that vote failed that should have some real consideration and whether we go forward with this. Lets put members on it. My deal is they dont have the vote. Its going to be a very lopsided onvote against it thats why the not bring it to the floor. I cannot speak toin that. Let me ask you this. I do not believe the Current Evidence would support articles of impeachment. I want to be careful to think it supports an inquiry but up the articles of impeachment themselves. I want to be precise in what you said. Can you explain what you believe the Current Evidence does not support the articles of impeachment today . Ask at the moment these are allegations. There is some credible evidence there the basis of the allegation. Cl i understand that im not questioninghm that. You dont think today if youre going to vote this was the case she would vote no, correct . On this evidence certainly. My question is this someone said to wiry voting not to impeach President Biden based on this evidence, where you think the evidence is lacking . Or does that not rise to the level you think it needs to be . . What are the places you think s missing customer. Assented mikeacac testimony y that they can establish a linkage with the influence peddling which is a form of corruption. Acknowledge what he participated, whether he encouraged it. We simply dont know. We dont know if this is an illusion or not. The back end of these Financial Transactions which i have read is where the committee is going, may shed light on that. Without that type of nexus then no i dont. That nexus is not been established, correct . Is the purpose of the inquiry that is correct. Click to view red the oped in the Washington Post is one of the republicans would be a lopsided vote against it inquiry saying that evidence doesnt exist . I did and i respect members of both parties. He has his reasons for that. I personally think the threshold has beenag surpassed. You have a duty to inquire as to these allegations. But that is not presupposing what youre going to find precooked to summarize it to formal recommendations speaker to haveve about on the inquiry . It is also your testimony today you would vote no on impeachment on the Current Evidence . Speaker pelosi took this i give the same advice. And as a best practice to go to the floor. Conflict of time has expired. They far assortment line of questioning i would start to comments. I love the analogy that you used about the speeding tech at hunter biden. Let me see if you would agree ah this analogy. If a criminal pulled a trigger for murder, he is guilty right . We can prove it. A dont you also agree with the estimate ordered that hit we would charge into . Its interesting you dont use that analogy, that is number one. Number two doesnt fit the narrative. Number two i am amazed and i love thehe fact that trump lives firent free and the democrats hd every day. That is a beautiful thing even though we are here to talk about the impeachment inquiry of joe biden. With that said i want to talk about the damning evidence of joe bidens role in his familys business schemes in romania. While joe biden was president he was directly involved in the nine states policy anticorruption efforts inn romania. That is a fact. On may 21, 2014 the then vice President Biden lived anticorruption speech in romania. On september 28, 2015 the president visited but then vice President Biden that rhody and president with then vice President Biden at the white house to discuss anticorruption efforts, right . With got a theme of corruption anticorruption, right . Gabriel a corrupt romanian oligarch the subject of a criminal probe is a subject of a criminalt . Probe prosecution fon corruption and bribery in romania. This committee has reviewed transactions showing that the biden family received money from a Foreign Company by this Russian Oligarch corrupt. Five weeks after the romanian president visited with vice President Biden he begins paying hunter biden and his associate through his company. The money from biden enterprises is deposited into robinson walker, llc. Now, this llc is directly operated by hunters known Business Partner robert walker. These are all facts that we found through the investigation. Inin november 2015 and again in march 2016 hunter biden. Rogers as a Foreign Agent meets with the u. S. Ambassador to romania. Red flag. Then coincidentally over a 1 million flows to the bidens. I am not much for coincidences and i dont think the American People are either. Lets run to the numbers together. Between november 2015 and may 2017 enterprises deposited over 3 million into robinson walkers llc business account. Then the biden family account received more than a 1 million from robinson walkers account after these deposits were made. Ironically 16 of the 17 payments occurred while joe biden was Vice President. Now i think most americans would find it suspicious that ironically these payments ended after joe biden left office. Another coincidence. Mr. Chairman i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record the Oversight Committee maintenant 2023 record memorandum showing joe bidens involvement in his familys business schemes in romania pickwick without objections ordered by. I see three problems here. One, will joe biden county anticorruption efforts and romaniaut hunter biden who was employed by a corrupt romanian oligarch, interesting. In direct violation hunter biden meets with the u. S. Ambassador to romania while being paid by popovich. What was hunter biden selling to the romanian oligarchs millions of dollars . I would still like to see a contract of that. Professor turley, i know im almost out of time. Hunter biden was charged under Foreign Agent registration act. Can you explain why . Whats in general it is time has expired but please for free to answer the question mr. Turley. Conduct described in these disclosures in terms of being a Foreign Agent. Some of this does appear to be that type of lobbying on the part of hunter biden. The failure to register as an agent helped conceal that but thats not necessary that motivation behind them. The question is should he have registered with the Foreign Agent over the course of this conduct . It seems to be looking at the paul manaforta indictment there is considerable overlap in the terms of the type of actions taken. For a twotier justice system. To enter the chart into the record. The chart recognizes for marilyn for five minutes. Did not plan to buy did followup the gentlewomans comments and assertions aboutut romanian hunter biden. On the fact he worked for romanian only problem with that is Rudy Giuliani also work for that person at a former fbi director. I like to ask unanimous consent New York Times piece entitled giuliani is drawing attention 200 bidens work in romania but there is a problem be entered into the record regrets that objections ordered. Thank you very much mr. Chairman. I want to go back to this they what seems to meet that is what has triggered all this. We are sitting here now wasting precious time while the country is about to shut down when its its agenesis with the rudyun gi that we ought to have it rudy ry giuliani here. I know there is a motion made earlier i like to aggregate that motion without mentioning the other persons name and offer a motion again that Rudy Giuliani be required to come before this committee. Is there a second . Second period and mr. Chairman i like to ask the clock be paused. Pause the clock. Thank you. Or to chair. Motion to table. Motion to table is our second . Second by mr. Fox. I guess well have a boat on the motion to table the motion. This is about giuliani right . Yes. Will do this by voice vote all of those if it. Recorded vote mr. Chairman. All opposed parks he has requested a record about her. The chair has that. Because i request a recorded vote now. Quickly request a recorded vote mr. Chairman. Will the clerk please get ready to have a recorded vote another motion by the minority party. [inaudible] the chair recognizes mr. Palmer. There is a motion for temporary recess is there a second . Motion to Second Period. Mr. Chairman starting a motion on the floor. [inaudible] will giveis them a bathroom break progresses already motion on the floor protects with emotion and it is mine. With the clerk please report . Call the rule with the clerk called the rule. But to be clear this is on the motion to table a motion for unanimous contact the cult Rudy Giuliani as a witness and for the Oversight Committee is that right . That is correct. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. Mr. Chairman will be voting on . This is a motion to table the motion subpoena Rudy Giuliani. Got it, does notot seem to he a lot to do with this. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call] [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. [roll call]. Mr. Chairman how my recorded . Record is voting either. Is not yet recorded. Mr. Donald votes yes. And madame clerk how my record have i been recorded . Mr. Raskin . You are recorded as voting no. How am i reported . Mr. Gomez you are recorded as voting no progress hello my recorded . Record as voting no. Mr. Brown votes note. Actually clerk please tally the votes. Mr. Chairman on this vote. The motion to table passes. Mr. You are rick and his two final three half minutes per. Thank you i reclaim my time and asked the question, where in the world is Rudy Giuliani . That is how we got here ladies and gentlemen. This committee is afraid to bring him before us and put him on the record. Shame. The question was raised what does this have to do with that . It . It has everything to do with. Ask professor gearhart and your testimony you said and every impeachment inquiry before hand the house has identified credible evidence of wrongdoing committed by a targeted president is that correct . Professor gearhart are impeachment inquiries typically utilized as a frontline tool to go fishing over the first time go seeking evidence . No, li sir. Professor would you say House Republicans have made an unprecedented overreach of congressional power . It strikes me that it is very. And would you say it is fair to assume that the extreme maga republicans in particular have misused if not Abuse Committee resources on the taxpayer dollars in this prolonged investigation that has gone on for almost a year subpoenaing documents having hearings, providing boxes of evidence and no wrongdoing . Sir i appreciate the question im not sure the maga republicans are progress i can point them out to you. [laughter] mr. Chairman . I would ask the judgment please point out the republicans he is referring to bring said he could. I am reclaiming my time. It is and gentlemen this clock is showing what is happening to our country while we debate over and over and over again not any wrong doing by President Biden but trying to link what his son may or may not have done to him. People are going to be hurt when this time runs out. This is not the wizard of oz all the sudden she turns over the hourglass while the wicked witch is standing there. These are children. These ares women, desert mility offers and soldiers and civilians. These are lawenforcement officers. These are Senior Citizens looking for paychex for Social Security. Oh why are we playing this game . And why dont we be honest . If it was so important it could wait, this is what is important protecting this a government and protecting the people who pay taxesve here. But we want to play games with all this so where is Rudy Giuliani right now i would like to know. And i would like to know why we cant bring him before this Committee Like we brought these witnesses and everybody else i yell back my time to the Ranking Member. Crystal to thank the distinguished judgment from baltimore for his passionate and lucid comments here. I appreciate the fact to introduce a motion to subpoena juilliard before i introduced to sit peanut him and lev parnas but wrote a long letter sent all this is based on a fraud. He went all over the word with Rudy Giuliani looking to fight. Is he alleging was for progress are you asked me too yieldme our u. S. Committee yelld unhappy yield for Second Period what is your question mr. Chairman . Whatyi fraud. And introduces the record in case you havent read it yet the letter lev parnas wrote to you and me and asked to call off this wild goose chase progress because of china money the bidens have received quest rex know all this is based on the burisma conspiracy directs the china money is based on burisma . Wait a minute gentlemens time has expired someone could yield doctor fox for north carolyn for five minutes. This is not a game. This is very serious business. And i think at the end it will be proven to the American People that this is serious business. We need to get on with it. We need to have the other side to stop playing games. Ms. Oconnor, and the column published in the wall street journal you stated the typical timidity of irs criminal tax lawyers and a recommending prosecution is quote Common Knowledge of the tax enforcement community. Can you explain where this comes from . I do not know the source of it, thank you for the question. But it is Common Knowledge the tax enforcement community. The tax division is required to authorize any criminal tax charges that are going to be brought in order to inform the special agent report is provided to the tax division before it gets the tax division irs criminal tax attorneys review it. Im sorry having trouble answering this. Let me give you some or guidance. Before bringing charges, irs criminal lawyers that you are alluding to provide advisory views and the special report is not correct . Right they are advisory only. The irs as any prosecutor is is very determined to have a very high convictionas rate. They went to be very, very careful that they bring a case they will win it. At alright so can you describe a typical special agent report in this show agent report specific to Hunter Bidens case . Urgently. Whistleblowers have testified nearly 1000 pages were provided a special agent report to the tax division. That special agent report consisted not only of a discussion of what they had discovered, but also every bit of evidence they found that supported each element that each crime for each year for which they were recommending charges. Will be followup again please. More than a year after d. O. J. Tax division receive this report the division, created 99 page memorandum supporting the recommended charges is that correct . Roxanne might be wrong about how long it took the tax division i have seen other information suggesting a somewhat shorter period of time. But they did do that question. I understand the tax division to produce 99 page memo authorizing all the charges a of special agents are recommended. Thank you. So ms. Oconnor you said d. O. J. Tax division recommended six felonies and five misdemeanors. Is that correct . That is correct by. Becausehunter biden was only iny charged with two counts of willful failure to pay federal income tax as part of the plea deal is that correct . Yes for just two years. And these are misdemeanors . Yes. But the maximum penalty for these charges is a fine of 25000 as well as up to one year in federal prison is that correct . Or both. Or both. Yet hunter biden owed more than 100,000 in both 2017 and 2018 correct. As of the criminal information alleged i think its a ballpark figure. Okay. Based on the answers you just provided is extremely difficult to believe that it individual who is not the son of the sitting u. S. President would be treated this way. We are told the department of justice treats all citizens equally under the law. But based on the evidence this committee has presented that is not what happened in delaware. Based on your experience wouldce you agree that its not what happened in delaware questioner. Exactly was potentially galling because just the next in new jersey and mechanics being sentenced to two years for not paid like one or 2000 in taxes. So in this case there was not equal justice under the law being proposed. Absently not. Produce totally lyunequal justice. That is not what this country stands for. Everyone being treated the same under the log. My colleague should feel the same way thank you mr. Terminal yield back. A gentle light yells back i recognized it by asking us consent to enter into the record a letter from lev parnas with mr. Raskin continues to referth too. Its a press release in the u. S. Attorneys office in the Southern District of new york. That is lev parnas sentenced to 20 months in prison for campaign campaignfinance, wired fraud and false statement. [inaudible] ordered. For five minutes for. Or. Think it mr. Chair. It has been repeated out also like to repeat the allegations been presented by the majority extremely serious and the prospect of impeachment is also greatly serious amount which has isbeen echoed by our witnesses today. Any serious impeachment investigation or inquiry relies on firsthand sworn testimony f witnesses to high crimes and misdemeanors. The republican majorities called in three witnesses to advance their case. Mr. Turley i have a simple question for you. In your testimony today, are you presenting any firsthand witness accounts of crimes committed by the president of United States . No im not progress note you are not. Miss oconnor the second republican witness here today, have you and your testimony presented any firsthand witness account ofan crimes committed by the president of United States . I have not been. Thank you. Now mr. Dubinsky is the third and final republican witness in this hearing have you and your testimony had any firsthand witness account of crimes committed by the president of United States . I have not been. And professor gephardt, given you have the minority the same correct . As im not a fact witness correct. Thank you. To clarify two individuals presented today who do have firsthand accounts surrounding the progeny of these allegations are being blocked from testifying by the republican majority. And i want to explain why this is important. Members of congress, all of us in this hearing are not under oath. We are presently covered by the speech and debate clause is that correct professor . Whats a spieth and debate clause because it covers all statements by member of congress whether they are factual ort. N. There are only four people in this room that are presently underat oath in their testimony because the fort witnesses here today is that correct professor . That is directly. They directed testimony of the four individual witnesses here today are the bona fide workrk this committee must use n order to proceed or substantiate an investigation. And it want to emphasize why that is important. Earlier today at one of our colleagues in general from florida presented up on the screen something that looks, appeared to be a screenshot of a text message containing or insinuating explosive allegation. That screenshot of what appeared to be a text message was a agfabricated image. It was a fabricated image. I dont know where it came from but i do not know if is a staff of the committee but it was not the actual direct screenshot from that phone. And in fact i like to submits to the committee the actual full context from affidavit number one exhibit 402 of the full text of that exchange i permission from the chair . Importantly what was brought out from that fabricated image excluded critical context that change the underlying meeting and allegation that was presented up on that screen by this committee and by members of this committee. Now they are well within their right to do that. They are covered by the speech and debate clause. Not submitted by material or fact witness under oath. That was not submitted by a material effect witness under oath. The impeachment inquiry and the impeachment inquiry regardless of party is extremely serious matter. Professor in the impeachment inquiry under into president clinton where their key fact witnesses that were presented during thosere proceedings . There were not in the house. Cracked in the senate were there any question or. There were prick works there were in the senate. Now in the impeachment with respect to President Trump are the key material fact witnesses in the house . Yes, maam. There were. Are there any key material fact witnesses here today . No maam. Es none. And so we are wasting our time. We talk about a threshold of an impeachment inquiry, was their house floor vote that had a majority of members of congress thatma opened in impeachment inquiry into president clinton . There was for. Was there a full house floor vote opening impeachment inquiry into President Trump questioned. In 2018 for. Is there one here for this one . Not for this one for. Not when here for this one. This is an embarrassment. And m barretts the time and people of this country. I would ask the chair and i would ask this committee elevate to the promise of our duties here and comport ourselves with consistency in practice that is required of our seats and our duty and our oath to our responsibilities herewith that i yield back too. The chart recognizes for five minutes. From wisconsin. Okay i am concerned about the seriousness of these allegations. What bothers me a little is im beginning to think americans are thinking this behavior by the biden family is normal. The look with news that the they will say this is how it works. I dont think its the way it works. I think this corruption that appears to be we have all kinds of smoke maybe not fire but all sorts of smoke is almost historic for our country deserves a strong response from this body. Look at senator menendez latest indictment there is no tolerance for putting yourself before your constituents. Unless it seems your last name is biden. I applaud my democratic colleagues who asked senator menendez to resign. We know how that ends though be a new democrat to police replace him. That here we are talking to the presidency. If the response is hunter biden wasnt an elected politician i have to know what was hunter biden selling . We cannot become numb to these facts for the allegations are extraordinary in fact im not aware ofe the type of allegatis of a sitting president accused of bribery accused of taking payments whether it be directly or through his family. These are not empty allegations we continue to have evidence just look what has come in in the past couple of days. As President Biden compromise question thats critically relevant because of the interaction between our country and ukraine the interaction between ourre country and china. Does not look good and the facts demand we continue investigating. Mr. Turley i want you to really discuss how historic this really is. What you think is the most concerning piece of evidence youve heard today . Think the most concerning obviously you have to start with the bribery allegation that was the subject of the ft 1023. I say in the testimony you have to only take that so far because you have a lot of information about secondhand accounts. But when you put it into the context of this a labyrinth of accountants and Companies Used to transfer money and you have the statements of hunter biden that is what makes us a credible inquiry. The question is, did the president in though . Did he encourage this type of corruption . The key here once again is what i stress in the testimony is yoe have to begin with the recognition hunter biden and his associates were doing was corrupt. That is what influence peddling is as a form of corruption that our country globally has combated. Now the only question for an inquiry is whether that body of corruption also encompass the actions or the knowledge of the president of the United States. The only way you will be able to get that information is to follow this evidence. What i suggest is you do so without any prejudice you do so without any assumptions i i hope the president will be able to show there ise no such nexus. But you will not get those answers until you ask these questions. We are obligated to have this inquiry pray. I believe it is your duty to determine if the president is involved and what is a known form of corruption. Thats what i believe its been described i believe many people have accepted this was influence peddling in its rawest form. Could you elaborate for us the impact bribery of a public official can have on the execution of their duties . And how about if it was the president can you explain why the American Public ought to care about this . Alexander hamilton talked about impeachment and federalist 65 is ade violation of the publc trust. Thats really what this ultimately goes too. I am hoping there is not much disagreement that public corruption falls within an Impeachable Offense because if it does not it makes a mockery of what the framers were talking about. During the clinton impeachment michael and i testified and there was a lot i think good faith discussion between us and the other experts as to the executive function theory of whatconstitutes as an impeachabe offense. I would hope it would be a great fn nexus was established with the president that he participated in the corruption of influence peddling that it would be a potential Impeachable Offense are the basis for. We have millions of dollars flowing to the biden family. That is been proven overwhelmingly. Are you aware of any precedent in this country where theres been any case of bribery and corruption of a public official or a president of this magnitude . Is there any historical precedent in this country . Question as times expire but please answer the question. Certainly. The assumption as the Ranking Member has contested and agreed to which all of this money went to the biden Family Members, is that Ranking Member said that has to bera established. But in terms of the figures ive been a critic of influence peddling by both republicans and democrats for three decades. Ive been writing about this for a long time great influence peddling is a favorite form of corruption in washington d. C. This city is awash with it. But have i seen anything of this size and complexity . No. As an observer . No. But we still need to know the scope of this and whether all of these financial transfers link the president in anyna regard im not going to assume it does preclude chart now recognizes question has consent motion to introduce october 2020 article in politico where the source of the ft 1023 mr. Turley just a reference stated neither he nor anyone else from burisma ever had any contact with vice President Biden or people working for him during Hunter Bidens engagement. Progresswithout objections overe chair now recognizes ms. Brown from ohio for five minutes per. But. Mr. Chairman. While we sit here just two days away from a complete Government Shutdown, House Republicans want to distract the American Public from their funding failure with a baseless impeachment inquiry lacking facts and foundation. This preventable shutdown threatens the livelihood of millions of federal workers, Small Business owners, seniors and veterans. All of whom live in the districts of every member on this committee. In my home state of ohio nearly 60000 federal workers will either be furloughed or forced to work without pay. I cannot overstate the impact this republican shutdown will have on mothers and babies receiving wic. In ohio this 180,000 women, children and infants whose benefits will be at risk. In case that statistic is not sinking in let me paint a picture for a pregnant mother in cleveland is trying to buy infant formula for her baby at the Grocery Store next week only to discover she has note wic benefits to access. She cannot pay. If Speaker Mccarthy and our republican colleagues continue to value their egos over the wellbeing of american families, stories like this will become a terrifying reality for millions. Yet House Republicans continue to prioritize politicalus warfae over peoples welfare. The speaker seems committed to promoting political gains in protecting peoples benefits over protecting peoples benefits. Americans and our economy are being held hostage to the demands of the most extreme members of his party. It is painfully clear Speaker Mccarthy has once again handed control of the peoples house to maga extremists. Rather than work with democrats to get us out of the mess they created republicans are tripping over themselves trying to distract and deflect the American People with this shameful show. Of justice the fbi under for President Trump sent five long years looking into these republicans conspiracy theories and debunk them. Repeatedly. So now in a vain attempt to deflect from the chaos and confusion they are causing House Republicans want to dig them up yet again. So professor, what would you say is the primary flaw in the House Republicans claim about President Biden . I suppose i could say a lot. The problemul is the dogs are nt connected. Most famously for repeated is hunter biden. Not President Biden. The point of an impeachment inquiry is not about a president someone that has to be about the president himself. Ha and i dont think those thoughts have been connected theres a lot of assumptions, a lot of accusations,en but not evidence. Thank you. These falsehoods about President Biden did not change the will of the people in november 2020 yet my colleagues on the other side of the aisle are at it again. Holding another hearing on baseless allegations. Looking for facts that just do not exist. Instead of fulfilling our duty to govern my call extending Government Shutdown dangerous for most and disastrous for most vulnerable communities. Without mr. Chairman i will yield my time to Ranking Member. I would urge you to yield to mr. Goldman progress i will yield to mr. Goldman for. Thank you revanche i thank my colleague. Mrs. Oconnor i believe you testified before the 99 page d. O. J. Tax memo gave a full authorization for the charges is that your testimony . Says what that was a blur as were actually the whistleblowers reported it was a discretion finding and since you worked in the d. O. J. Division im sure you understand there is full authorization, there is discretion and there is declination. When they give a discretion determination that is because there are serious holes and flaws they leave it to the discretion of the u. S. Attorney whether or not they would to charge it isnt that correct . Note noted all discretion is not based on holes and flaws it is based on the ability of that particular district to prosecute that case. An infected 99 page. The ability . Excuse me what do you mean in the ability . Its only one time did mention discretion all the other times he did not budge discretion at all. The gentlemans time has expired for the chair now recognizes for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Imm very just concerned about what ive heard here today if theres a saying among country lawyers if you have the facts you pound the facts if you dont have the facts you pound the table but we cant pound the table i guess some of my democratic colleagues choose to pound the witnesses that is inexcusable. What just happened on this committee attacking the witnesses personally instead of addressing the merits of the evidence beingg presented indicates to me my democratic colleagues of the evidence is becoming increasingly conclusive. It reminds me of a line from a movie a few good men Jack Nicholson you cant handle the truth. The evidence will either convict or acquit. Any criminal proceeding or civil proceeding if there is no wrongdoing the evidence or the lack of evidence will support that conclusion. The problem of the suspicion of wrongdoing is compounded by the withholding of evidence. The misrepresentation of the evidence in hand and the obstruction of an investigation but denying access to information that would be or could be evidence. At this point there is a growing Public Perception its reflected in the polls mr. Chairman President Biden his son hunter and other familyth members and Business Associates were engaged in some form of criminal activity. It is the responsibility of this committee to pursue the truth and reported to the American People. I am not sure thats whats happening on the other side with my colleagues. It is vitally important that our efforts be conducted openly, without prejudice, with no other agenda other than arriving at the truth regardless of our politics. It is vitally important as professor charlie pointed out you do not undertake an impeachment inquiry lightly. This has profound implications for the future of this country and her ability to govern ourselves. We have seen repeatedly obstructive efforts, obstruction efforts to deny this Committee Access to information that is material to this investigation. I want to ask professor turley a question. In your view could the promise of foreign access to any official comment Government Official was the Vice President or anyone else, but only materially benefited and Family Member could that be influence peddling . Yes as i point out in the testimony courts have found that various benefits to Family Members can be attributed to the benefits of the principle that is included everything from throwing a golf contest in favor of a son of a politician to paying for gifts. I was lead counsel on the last impeachment trial for a judge. That was a trial in the u. S. Senate my client was accused among other things of benefits going to his family. So there is certainly precedent. Not only in criminal cases been impeachment cases for making them piglets want to be more specific. If vice President Biden used his office to influence domestic or andForeign Policy for the finanl benefit of his son even though vice President Biden may never have received a dime, but resulted in millions of, dollas going to his son or his brother or other Family Members or Business Associates used his office to influence other domestic or Foreign Policy for their benefit could that be a violation of the public trust . Absolutely in fact it is perhaps the most quintessential violation of public trust you are notfa acting in the publics interest. Its a form of the corruption this government, this country has declared as corrupt and other countries around the world. Of course it dont jump on your thats our time running all of the important thing to do but i would like to respond to the attack you mention. You may do so. Thank youio sir. I would like to explain that was for nothing else for that members of the committee them for my three children here who may be a little surprised by what they just heard. I say i think know ive spent my life challenging what is called morals legislation the democratic member attacked me for our laws that dictate to others how they should live their lives. Some of those laws have been used against gay and lesbian couples for they have been used against minorities. The individual the member described i condemned to. I represented the case of challenging thatt law on the basis of individual rights the child court ruled in our favor instruct on that lobby first time that type of law had ever lawhad ever been struck down a tenth circuit laterdo dismissedn technical grounds i want to end with one other thing andch thats it is not going to make a difference. This has become a pattern of witnesses,is whistleblowers, fbi agents, journalists inc. Attacked in congress. It wont make any difference. It wont change the constitutional standard it willi not negate any evidence that you have it. But at some point you have got to say enough. We have to have something for the public has have something in congress to look to to have faith. And i have to tell to you i dont think that absurd attack made any difference to my children or the people that are watching it makes a difference to our process. Witnesses should not have too. Mr. Chairman i hate to interrupt professor turley bucket our witness get equal time that we are over minute over. Ex. [inaudible] a jealous time as expired he responded to the false allegations but your members and i apologize for how you all have been treated i apologize to the American People watching this hearing for the parliamentary stumps the other side is pulled birthing people in america care about public corruption. The title of this hearing is impeachment inquiry. I think mr. Charlie has done a good job explain the basis for white we need to take impeachment inquiry and move forward. We have led thiske investigation and now we need the impeachment inquiry status as we move forward to get the information we have been obstructed by this administration and by this family. That is what the purpose of this hearing is. Do not create a false narrative without the chart recognizes mr. Mr. Chairman what obstruction we referring to their question. And stansbury from new mexico. Mr. Gomez was next. I went to light thank you to mrg this hearing today. As it demonstrates the house gop and Donald Trumps continued attacks on our institutions and on our democracy ofp the house gop complete inability to govern in a serious manner. As they are holding this hearing as we see just two days before a potential devastating Government Shutdown the fact that most republican members on this committee did not even bothered to show up for the hearing this morning. Their own star witness said rightsa here in this committee, this morning that he does not believe theres enoughh evidence to meet the standards needed for impeachment. An end to make this our colleagues across the aisle are making a mockery of this institution. End of our constitution peddling conspiracy theories. Peddling the Conspiracy Theory that Rudy Giuliani and donald trump themselves tried to get the American People to believe. And why should donald trump d. O. J. Debunked. It is outrageous. So lets be clear about what this hearing actually is. It is an effort to undermine our democracy. To diminish Donald Trumps own two impeachments, his firstis impeachment for trying to illegally bribe a foreign governments to help him with his campaign. And nay sackett for a deadly insurrection in the halls of this capitol after he asked his followers to tear through the halls of congress which they did with zip ties looking to execute the former Vice President. We note donald trump is called for this impeachment inquiry because we have the direct evidenceow is social. You can see it right here. He says impeach the bomb. We also know he has been directly coordinating with members of this committee as reported by the New York Times right here member of this committee has been briefing donald trump on this inquiry. We also note donald trump does not get his way he wants his loyalist to shut down the government. How do we know that . Because he posted it right here on his social media. His loyalist in this committee who are doing his bidding for him today retweeted it. In fact it actually says right here the reason why they want to defend the government and Miles Per Hour is this is the last chance to defend these political prosecutions against me. So folks this is not a serious inquiry. This is not a serious hearing in fact the witnesses here dont believe us enough evidence to impeach. There own members dont believe there is enough evidence to impeach. In fact they refused to hold a vote on the floor of the house of representatives because they did not have enough republican members to vote for. That is why we are here today. It is outrageous. So what is this hearing actually about . It is a campaign strategy. It is that misuse of official resources. It is this committee and a loyalist and donald trump doing his bidding to bolster his chances of winning back the white house and securing their majority in the next election. And in the process to diminish impeachment wages enshrined in the u. S. Constitution which we take an oath to uphold. And to make Donald Trumps crimes including his two impeachments and is 91 criminal indictment counts look like they are not serious crimes. When you think about it, it is chilling. It is truly chilling. It is another attack on our democracy and our institutions. It is another attack on fair and free elections and the use of this committee to try to carry it out. I just want to say i think it is obvious with the grand puppet master is here. He tweeted about it on his own social. We see the long arm, that little hand of mr. Donald trump whose fingerprints all over this hearing and sham impeachment. Its another attack on our democracy and our institutions. Its another attack on fair and free elections. The use of this committee to try to carry it out. I just want to say, i think it is obvious who the grand puppet master is here. He tweeted about it on his own social. We see the long arm, but, little hands, of mr. Donald trump, whose fingerprints are all over this hearing and this sham impeachment. The president , Vice President and all civil officers of the be removed from office on impeachment for and conviction of treason and robbery and high crimes and misdemeanors. Professor, please tell us briefly, sir, what was actual meaning in 77 with misdemeanors. What we do know is that there were various terms that were offered and were rejected. The most famous being mal administration and James Madison was uncomfortable with that. It was never designed to be limited by statute. Professor madison, would madison argue that, quote, unquote zeldin april is Impeachable Offense . There are references. They have gone to the violation of public trust including the use of office to perpetuate false accounts or obstruct this body. Agreed. So impeachment is is a mechanism of and those criminal Code Violations would be revealed through the investigative effort of the congressional endeavor to inquire into Impeachable Offenses like this like this hearing,bo would you agree . Thats right. Moving quickly, the gentleman said no credibility to this evidence. As an investigator perhaps no category of evidence thats more credible than bank records and bank records is what we are working with. Houseid oversight, ways and meas Committee Investigating highly suspicious transactions from Shell Companies to biden Family Members. Theres nothing more credible in an investigative effort, good, sir, than good records. Im going to read from an email assistant United States attorney wolf identified exhibit 202 of f whistleblower investigation. Let me clarify that during that investigation political figure one was the Investigative Team, the fbi, doj, political figure one a is not a pseudonym by democrats or republicans. Erpolitical figure is President Biden, joe biden. Leslie wolf, as a priority, somebody needs to redraft attachment b. There should be nothing about political one in here. This is a response to an email delivered by joshua wilson, fbi agent, please see the attached draft for blue star search warrant. Blue Star Strategies is a longtime democrat lobbying firm that biden used to put pressure to protect and allowed to register as Foreign Agent. Today no one has been held accountable at blue star. That happened during 2020 just months before your president ial election, america. You should be very concerned about this. Mr. Turley, based upon the constitutional parameters of the house of representatives, do you agree that that Oversight Committee,ra judiciary committe, waysys and Means Committee shoud bee judiciously investigating of impeachable actions of President Joe Biden . I do. I think it is your duty to get answers to the questions to see if the president is involved and why i think is a confirmed corrupt peddling effort. Okay, thank you very much. My time has expired. I yield. I recognize mr. Garcia from california for 5 minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to begin by recapping to the American People what we have seen. Democratic colleagues have good job zero. Hunter biden never held any Public Office and no evidence that he influenced in the white house. Theres no evidence that he and his fathers accounts were linked. So instead we are back to following on maga conspiracy theories that Rudy Giuliani put over and over again. House republicans trying to reelect their body leader donald trump. Why we are not investigating real family corruption . They want to attack President Bidens family who actually never worked in the white house which is incredibly hypocritical. We have yet talked about these guys that actually worked in the white house and, in fact, i want to talk about Jared Kushner who is right over here. We know Jared Kushner, soninlaw was given enormous power in the white house. When jared joined the white house he was so unfit and unqualified and with so many conflicts of interest he couldnt get a security clearance. His fatherinlaw donald trump had to intervene overwriting national officials. We know months after jared left the white house, the saudi royal family gave him 2 billion with a b in the kushner hedge fund. This is a man put ahead of middle east policy in the white fihouse. He supported saudis with brutal war in yemen after they murdered Jamal Khashoggi an american resident. Even trumps first secretary of statee complained that this was inappropriate. Jared delivered for the saudis and over again and he was rewarded. Even advisers of the crown prince advised against the 2 billiondollar Hedge Fund Investment and he went forward anyways. Jared kushner, aide, Donald Trumps soninlaw was doing favors. This wasbr enormous scandal that this committee should investigate. Chris christie put it better, the drift is breath taking. This is what our Committee Chairman said about the kushners. Im just quoting our chairman. I have been vocal that i think what kushner did crossed the line of ethics. Now, mr. Chairman, i completely agree that the kushners crossed the line of ethics and i want to know what we are going to do about it. If we are not too busy next week during maga shutdown we can have a hearing with Jared Kushner which is corrupt arms deal around Investment Firm and the chairman can also be involved and he also thinks theres quproblems. We do know today that we are not here because of any wrongdoing of President Biden but Donald Trumps campaign and most extreme allies including members of the committee are retaliating. In fact, some members have been trying to impeach the president since day one. Now, this is a tweet here. Im going to read it. Two years ago i introduced articles to impeach joe biden on his first full day in office. We will impeach biden bolded with exclamation point and you see the resolution here. We have the receipts to prove it. Theres really no reason why. They dont care why they want to impeach the president but have been trying to do it for years. Here you have a member of the Oversight Committee posing of introducing articles of impeachment on President Bidens first day inis office. The speaker of the house is empowering the house at desperate attempt to keep his job. Ultimately the person pulling the strings is donald trump, dangerous man who is out for revenge and i want to show you a second tweet by aex member of ts committee. They are trying to expunge Donald Trumps impeachment which is unconstitutional. Im going to read the tweet. Impeach criminal biden. These are political stunts to appeal to extremist base and they seize control of the conference. This impeachment is a farce with no evidence and with that, i yield back. Mr. Chairman. Chair recognizes. I would add that Jared Kushner was a key player in historic. Point ofby order. Excuse me. Point of order. Chair, recognize gentleman from texas. Thank you very much. You have been asked a question earlier that i heard a quick reply to and the answer of the question was about the timing of a Government Shutdown and impeachment. You quickly responded never. Do you want to revise our extend that remark about the the timing of a Government Shutdown and an impeachment occurring about at the same time and you said never. I understand the question and if youre talking about 2019 i am. There was not a shutdown. There was not, theres not now. I understand. There was not now. So the people on this side are simply taking advantage of your answer, in fact, the indictment, impeachment of donald trump was december 18th, do2019 and the president signed the funding of the government december 21st, 2019, 3 days later. So the question that you were asked perhaps you responded to correctly never but, in fact, there iswn a nexus that suggests that people on this side of the of the dias are taken the wrong way. Second, mr. Chairman, i always find that some of our members are talking baseless accusations of Government Shutdown. All you have to do is to google ohio to apply for wic which was the supposition brought up can be gathered in all 88 ohio counties. It is run by the state of ohio, not the federal government. I think that we need to be careful when we make accusations here. Thank you very much. Ms. Oconnor, you have a history of understanding Tax Implications and insidet the department of justice. These are serious matters and when they did you yield to the gentleman . I will not. Okay. The implications of this endeavor that we are attempting to understand is decisionmaking inside the department of justice and that inside decisionmaking weve already heard back ak number of timesbe how the department of justice did not move forward in complaints i believe to their job to make a determination whether the facts would or should be taken further with president nt clinton, the fi went and actually interviewed the president and the Vice President about these matters and other people in the white house and president clinton lost his law license over that and it ended up that there was an impeachment on from the house side. Can you please talk about what should be done from normal and regular department of justice officials to see whether this has occurred and whether we are entitled to ask questions about that investigation from the federal bureau of investigation and the doj . Thank you, mr. Sessions. I think youre more than entitled, i think youre obligated to look into the allegations that there was whistleblowers of fraud. Whistleblowers were in detail of steps to take but were prevented from taking but would have taken in any other investigation. We dont have a window of where the road block was thrown. We dont know who threw it. Would you think it would be proper for this committee to bring those individuals and to properly vet them about that or is that the duty of the department of justice through the federal bureau of investigation too get that done . Well, i think i think its your obligation. We know that the whistleblowers tried to remedy the obstruction from within the Internal Revenue service and were left out to dry. For example, the Whatsapp Message hunter biden says hes sitting next to his father in the process of shaking down a chinese businessman. The agents wanted to find out if it was a true statement but they were denied the authority. What authority . We dont know exactly. All weow know from the testimony is that they they would request search warrants. Mr. Chairman, let the record reflect this is abinquiry for us to make a determination. Mr. Chairman absolutely. Without objection. Placed into the record the articles which i had previously provided to this committee and xttestimony. Mr. Chairman. I would like to offer a press release from the same Southern District of new york that you introduced for lev thats entitled devin archer sent to prison for jail, sale of more than 60 million of bonds. Hunter bidens Business Partner and friend . Your star witness. The chair recognizes mr. Gomez from california for five minutes. All right, thank you so much, mr. Chairman. So one of the things that i want to stress is from the very beginning of this congress the republicans had one thing in mind, lets get joe biden. Lets get joe biden and lets take, you know, find the evidence that showed he did something wrong. So when the evidence didnt exist, they would make up facts or they would exaggerate to an extent that it was like honestly mindboggling. And i know i want to focus on one part first. The republicans keep pointing out 20 Shell Companies of the biden family. These are actually 20 Shell Companies of hunter biden. Okay. So any time they say the biden family, they are really saying hunter biden because there hasnt been a connection between joe biden and these companies to an extent do we have the slides up . First slide thats not the slide but i will show it. So theres an article from Washington Post august 17, 2023 and itt says how republicans oversight findings of the Hunter Biden Probe and specifically when it comes to these 20 Shell Companies as they call them they were actually they were overhyped and they gave them 3 pinocchios. Mr. Chairman, i would like unanimous consent to enter that into the record. Without objection, so ordered. Great. They keep. Focusing on the 20 companies and the ways and Means Committee reveals 700 pages yesterday, it was really dramatic, right, they used section 7 6103 to get returns and they say, hey, we will show they did something wrong. The chairman of the ways and Means Committee mr. Adrienne smith who serves on the committee or sits on this committee presented, when asked a simple question, they pointed out this actually came, the Whatsapp Message of hunter biden allegedly was sent in 2017 when joe biden wasnt even president , when joe biden wasnt even running for president. So unanimous consent to enter another article by yahoo news, nbc reporter destroys gop lawmakers evidence against joe biden without even trying. Without objection so ordered. Thank you so much. Lets dig into 20 businesses. 20 companies. Thats a lot of companies for an average american like myself. I have a w2, you know, i file my income taxes, my wife and i have simple returns. But when it came to President Trump, how Many Companies did he have . Te anybody want to take a guess . Ms. Oconnor, how Many Companies did mr. Trump have . I have no ideays the number. Stop, i reclaim my time. Thank you. Reclaim my time. See, you cant even answer a simple question, right. He had over 500 companies. No i will not. He also had over 500 companies. Over 500 companies. I looked at the tax returns, why, because i was on the ways and Means Committee and i got to dig into it. Over 500 companies. 517 to 543 companies. And republicans had no concern about that. Each one hiding the existence and who controlled the others but the republicans bring it up, no, did they have any concerns, no. What happened last week or this week . Lets take a guess. A judge said that President Trump committed fraud. Business fraud forta inflating e value of his net worth and his companies. But when it comes to the republicans, they have no problem with that. They dont want to dig into that. When trump controlled these 517 companies, when it came to hunter biden controlling 20, oh, we see a direct line to joe biden. So thats what thehe problem is, is that they are cherrypicking factsp to connect it to joe bidn and when they dont have facts, they make it up as they did earlier today when they put tweets or or Text Messages that were not connected. So the point is, everything thy are doing is to muddy the waters and i think its disgraceful because when it comes to a president that committed fraud, a president that caused an insurrection, a president that was sold our National Interest to the highest bidder, silence. With that, i yield back my time. Quick question about the 20 companies. I yield back my time. Senator from arizona. Thank you, mr. Chairman. This is the entire transcript of the evan archer testimony. In this particular colloquy, youllll see that mr. Archer, lets start at the beginning. Lets go somewhere else. The question is did he talk about did hunter talk about how bringing his dad joe biden either to ukraine or using his dad with Vice President would add values in the eyes of barisma officials, answer, yes. How did it come, well, we are Business Partners. It came up. We are Business Partners. Okay. What kind of leverage was trying to get by using his dad . Answer by devin, i think its more defensive, defensive leverage that the value is there and its worth. Also in the same document i asked him, i said the brand, what is it, you keep talking about the biden brand, is it dr. He looks at me like im an idiot. Of course, its joe biden. Of course, its joe biden. Tony bobulinski and who is the biden family asset . Is it dr. Jill . No. Brother jim . No. Grandkids that got money from Foreign Companies . No, none of those folks. None of those folks. This is hunter biden saying to his uncle jim, bs jim, explain to me something, Tony Bobulinski brings to my table that i should desperately need that im willing to sign over my familys brand. Whats the brand . Joe biden and pretty much the rest of my business life, why because thats only product i got. Joe biden the Vice President at that time. Its plain english. Theres lots of words in there. Why would i give the bully the keys my familys only asset . Oh, okay. We are told theres nothing linkingsp him. Mr. Turley i have to ask a question. If the brand and what youre selling is joe biden, the then Vice President and if joe biden or his family is receiving some kind of benefit by the sale of access or, you know, i will leave it there, selling of access or even the allusion of to to joe biden . What does that lead you to conclude . Well, if you lack look at actual cases i cited in my testimony, benefits to Family Members can be used to benefit of the principle. Theres not much debate about that. The issue of the inquiry, there has been progress in the last few weeks and that many people after the archer testimony said, yeah, i get it, t influence peddling. Someone said its thehe allusion of access. Thats the new defense. I think calling it by its correct name is important and it is a form of corruption. The benefits to the Family Members can be attribute today the principle even under the higher standard of criminal cases. While remains, did the president know that direct that, participate in that. Well, we know they made 20 calls to Business Associates. We know hes having dinners to those associates which leads me to the followup question which is critical here because these guys are looking for the gold bars, the cash stuffed in the menendez coat. That doesnt happen very often. In my experience trying a lot of cases. So my question for you is, tell us about when you have circumstantial evidence visavis direct evidence, whats its value, can you rest a conviction on circumstantial evidence . You can. Si those elements elements are narrower than they were but it is notable in the menendez indictment that they brought conspiracy on services and think stillth believe that these types of gifts obviously can be based on Conspiracy Theory. But youre clearly correct. I mean if the allegations of senator menendez are true, thats oldschool bribery not since jefferson and his freezer have we seen that type of raw evidence. Today its a lot more sophisticated. I think everyone in thee room s to acknowledge that influence peddling is the famous corruption in washington. Its much more sophisticated than handing over gold bars or whatever is alleged in the menendez case. I appreciate that my colleague trust the American People and the cnn poll is a majority of americans believe that joe biden as Vice President was involved with his sons business dealings. That for the record. Without objection, so ordered. Consent motion. Id move with unanimous consent to introduce an order from the Supreme Court of the state of new york from tuesday where the Trump Organization was found liable for fraud and specifically on page 28 where theres a paragraph entitled, quote, trump brand premium that increased the value of trump assets by 15 or 30 according to the Trump Organization. Without objection, so ordered. Chair frost from florida. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Impeachment inquiry is grave undertaking thats supposed to be inco response of evidence ofa crime. Mr. Chairman, you have questions, many off my colleagus on the other side of the aisle in this hearing have questions but questions have not the basis for impeachment evidence is. Mr. Turley, on september 1st, speaker Kevin Mccarthy said tht he would not launch a fake impeachment inquiry, sham impeachment inquiry but then on september 12th, 12 days later he completely changed his mind and my question is why in those 12 days hard evidence appeared that clearly and directly links the president of the United States, joe biden to a crime . I cant answer what was it that pushed the speaker to make the decision. The courts said you dont have to have the vote on the floor. I think it is a best practice. But im veryar interested in those 12 days and we know that youre not a fact witness and youre talking about things that are already public but is there anything that came up in those 12 days that linked the president of the United States to a crime yes or no . I dont have any recollection of those 12 days. Nothing. We heard from you that this is why we have impeachment inquiry. Lets pull back the curtain on whats going on. Theres no evidence of crime only desperation and political pressure. This is whats going on, the far right called for the sham impeachment hearing with no evidence at the beginning of this yearin when we first got started. This impeachment i query has been going on. Its not the first hearing that weve had in relation to. This on september 1st, Speaker Mccarthy says no, we are not going to do that, we dont have the evidence, we dont have the votes to pass on the house floor. We are not going to do it, a good decision in my opinion. Then 12 days later, 12 precious days later something happens, im not sure what, but something happens because then the speaker of the house Kevin Mccarthy comes out and says, yes, we will do an impeachment inquiry. So what happened between these 12 days . Its very simple. Three threats from his own caucus at the direction of donald trump changed his mind. The threat to force vote on impeachment which would lose on house floor andr be another embarrassment. Number two, they would threat to shut down the government something that will happen in two days and number three, this is the one that really got to him, they said you about to lose your job and they said, we will remove you as speaker from the house and that scared him so much that Kevin Mccarthy, the speaker of the house, house of representatives, third to presidency completely caved to people of his ownan caucus. This fake impeachment is based on desperate political calculation and not any evidence and mr. Chairman, you say this hearing is to establish the basis for this fake sham impeachment hearing but these witnesses are not giving us any basis or giving us any evidence i reclaim mynt time. We have one witness that has a lot of questions, one witness that knows about accounting. Mr. Turley stopping on his way to next fox news hit. This this is not a serious inquiry and this impeachment is something thats very serious and we have to ensure that we focus on the needs of the American People. Theres no line outside. The goal to distract from the Government Shutdown is not going to work and to the speaker i have to say youre being played tnby these extremists and donald trump, its costing us our economy and this entire fake impeachment inquiry isnt about the uniteds states, its about hunter biden and the only thing the president can be guilty up here is beingat a father. I yield back to the Ranking Member. Chair recognizes mr. Turner. I yield to the vice Ranking Member. I yield it to the vice Ranking Member. Thank you,th i will claim exa time as well. Must of the republican case and evidence has relied on words fromit hunter biden, hunter bidn said this, hunter biden said that therefore case closed, theres something here. Professor we know its wide knowledge with the public ha hunter biden sadly was dealing with substance misuse, correct . Correct. Hes been under indictment . Correct. Is this a reliable witness that you would deem . Probably not in your assessment. Thank you very much. Chair recognizes mr. Charm armstrong. One is a hearing notice sorry june 10th. 70 story time, secondly theres another unanimous consent motion for a hearing notice in judiciary with two witnesses here just a week before we voted on impeachment in 2019 with michael and jonathan turley, appreciate you both being here very much but you were not fact witnesses at that point in time and the websters definition of hypocrisy. Without objection so ordered. Mr. Chairman, i have a question unanimous. The chair recognizes ms. Mace. I request unanimous consent to enter an article into the record dated january 6th, 2019, a member of this own committee the day after she was sworn in came into congress and this article says dems split in response to her words impeach the mother efer the day she was sworn in. Some might say these kinds of comments are hypocritical by the left butbs that this is embarrassment to the time and people of this country, thank you very much. Without objection, so ordered. Mr. Chairman, im afraid my friend engaged she entered i believe mrs. Tlaibs it was the commentary. She said it. She actually said. Burule she said impeach the mother efer. Commentary. Lets get on with this. The government is about to shut down. En order, the chair recognizes. The mischaracterization of what this hearing is about by my colleagues on the other side is astounding. Throughout the presidency of joe biden the white house is attempted to claim that the president did not talk to hunter about his business dealings. Said during the 2020 president ial debate that no members of his family received money from china. He said and i quote, my son has not made money in terms of this thing about china. Nobody else has made money from china, end quote. The white house strategy has been deny, deny, deny, lie and counterattack but the evidence and the facts have forced the white house to change its story time and time again. The white house handlers continue to shift the goal posts and President Biden continues to lie. How can President Biden continue to maintain that hunters private business was simply that, private when its clear from bank records, emails and testimony that joe biden was intimately involved in hunters pay to play schemes and crooked foreign business dealings. This image shows an email between hunter biden and his Business Associates stating the setup of e question testify chineseowned energy venture. This particular business deal was with cefc, a chineseowned energy conglomerate. This email lays out payment structure for equity in the wacompany which was known to be tied to the Chinese Communist party through owner chairman ming. Thejo committees investigation including evidencee through various documents have shown that these men were all in business with hunter biden at one time or another, james gillir, Tony Bobulinski along with other hunter Business Partners have confirmed what the email said, that they were all getting a cut. Who else was getting a cut . What is the date of the email, sir . This is my time. Mr. Chairman, i ask that my time be restored. Please restore time. Thank you. Who else was getting a cut . According to this email 10 was going to the big guy what im sure the colleagues on the other side who is the big guy. We learned that Tony Bobulinski also his corroborated that joe biden is the big guy. Whistleblowers say joe biden is the big guy and finally the Justice Department obstructed investigators in delaware who wanted to look into you guessed it the big guy. Listen, folks, it is obvious. Joe biden is the big guy and so what do we have here. Wewe have the residents saying that he had nothing to do with and hunter biden and no one in the family profited from china and we have evidence that the big guy was getting 10 . Let me read you definition of trendy word lately gaslighting, a form of psychological ma manipulation in which the abuser tries to gain power and control of another person by questioning judgment and intuition. I would say to the American People look at the evidence before you and make a judgment and do not allow the white house or our colleagues on the other side of the ill try to convince you that what youre seeing isnt the truth, trying to convince that youre crazy. Mr. Debenski youg have extensie experience as Expert Witness and consultant in the areas of White Collar Crime and corruption, is it characteristic of these types of crimes that actors hide behind nicknames or other pseudonyms to cover identity . Typically youll see code names used and money being paid to somebody under that code name and thats how the processes e work. Let me ask you something, youre very experience, when conducting an investigation f your boss prevented you to take investigative steps, he would it affect your findings . First, it would be extremely troubling if i was told not to investigate something or if information put in that position i would probably withdraw from the investigation. Has the department of justice ever restricted investigative steps . No, they have not. Thats amazing. Mr. Chairman, i yield back my time. The gentleman yields back. The chairman recognize ms. Lee for 5th minutes. 3 hours and 45 or so minutes into this the republicans own witnesses have confirmed that they have seen no evidence of any evidence. I think that if my republican colleagues had socalled smoking gun they would have presented it by now and would have talked about it can the gentle lady read a bank statement. We are sitting here with no fact witnesses and no evidence in this sham socalled impeachment to distract from their inability to fulfill their basic duty to fund and run our government. Republicans know the American People dont want their shutdown. So instead republicans on this committee are attempt to go divert and distract the American Peoples attention by spending taxpayer dollars on this sham impeachment hearing two days before they shut the government down and hope that the media and i dont just mean fox news will fall to their scheme in fact, in chairman comers district republicans shutdown would cost 8,930 constituents his paychecks and in jim jordans district, 3,939 of his constituents their paychecks. In Taylor Greenes district, republican shut do you know would cost 6,313. Democrats are the party of shutdown. You guys love shutdown. Andli Lauren Boebart distric, 9,016 constituents their paychecks. Byron donald, 3,235 folks paychecks. Andy bigg 8,033 and scott perry pennsylvania district and the capital republican shutdown will cost 5,445 of his constituents who will lose their paycheck, indeed, when you add up when you add it all up republican shutdown will cost 217,583 of their constituents on that committees paychecks their income for who knows how long. Let that sink in for a second. Those are our mothers, our fathers, caretakers, grandmas, grandpas. Manylo of them vote republican t i get you not one of them cares more about Hunter Bidens laptop or helping helping Kevin Mccarthy keep his gig as leader or speaker of his dysfunctional caucus than they care about receiving paychecks and making ends meet. The republicans on the committee are betting partisan bickering over their favorite buzz words rather than talking about how the maga shutdown will crush all of our constituents. To be honest, i dont quite care about private citizen hunter whom the proper authorities are dealing with or the cable news culture war distractions. I care about the 7 million babies children, mothers who after sunday will lose food and formula in my district alone. I care about 300,000 families that can face evictions from their homes. I care about seniors unable to get help with Social Security and medicare and make no mistake, targeted in who is behind them and who is going to be hurt more the most marginalized folks bear the brunt, black folks, brown folks, transfolks, disabled folks. We had two hearings on the infant formula shortage with 320,000 babies women and children in home state of michigan about to go hungry because her Party Shutdown and seep that republican colleagues only care about an issue when they can point a finger in the other direction much like is going on in this embarrassment of hearing today. You mentioned thatca a good test for assessing the constitutionality of governmental action is switch to names of a Political Party and actors involved. The outcome is the same it is good sign of neutrality. If the outcome is not the same since i dont have time i think we can say that we are here america in this sham hearing prioritizing the political needs of the R Republican Party pushing a lie for donald trump as you go hungry and you lose your homes. Shameful. I yield back. At the request of thehe witnesses, wear will take a tenminute recess