Transcripts For CSPAN2 Broadband 20240703

Technology hears testimony from broadband Industry Experts on investments for the universal service fund, the importance of the conductivity program and the root causes of barriers to Broadband Access. The subcommittee will come to order and the chair recognizes itself for five minutes for an Opening Statement and again thank you to the witnesses for being with us today. Americans relyy on Internet Connectivity for work, education, healthcare. Despite years of efforts and billions of dollars Many Americans are still without a reliable broadband connection. Closing the Digital Divide is a bipartisan priority and significant resources have been dedicated to this effort. Thee Department Requires a dedicated insufficient response for an overwhelming response. As Ronald Reagan rightly said the government is not the solution to the problem, the government is the problem. In may, 2020 to the Government Accountability office found that there were over 130 broadband programs across 15 federal government agents. A lot of the programs the broadband equity Access Deployment Program created in investment and jobs act 42. 45 billion for broadbandb deployment. One of the Top Priorities is making sure the programs administered effectively so many dedicated achieves its goal. At the concern about whether that would happen, some of the programs including those created outside orders with a discussion with her 42 billion is the right number or debate on how the program should be administered. To support the wireless carriers with Critical Services. Im also concerned rising costs for labor and equipment will supply shortages taking both additional money and time required for deployment. Given the uncertainty im worried the federal government will waste this opportunity to connect all americans. Oversight in the existing programs is crucial for the success, but we also need to look towards the future for what broadband should look like when the programs like these conclude. For example the universal service fund was created in 1997 and distributed approximately 8 million per year. This reports for broadband programs targeting high cost areas, low income households and rural healthcare facilities. Many providers are dependent to support the deployment and unserved areas. Over the past few Years Congress has also spent billions funding the same efforts in emergency connectivity funds into the Affordable Connectivity Program and covid19 telehealth program. Given the duplication Congress Needs to address whether we still needed and if so what it would look like. This includes addressing Work Programs to fund how the usf should be funded and what reforms are needed to ensure programs are running effectively and without waste, fraud or abuse. These are important questions for congress to consider and will require serious bipartisan, bicameral discussions. Im pleased to announce today that the Ranking Member of the subcommittee and i are joined in bipartisan universal Service Working group led by senators thune and lujan. I look forward to hearing from stakeholders and working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle and in the capital to find a solution to ensure a sustainableuniversal service foo come. The hearings are looking towards the future of the federaltowards broadband programs and i look forward to hearing from the witnesses and again thank you for being with us today. At this time i recognize the Ranking Member of the subcommittee the gentlelady from california for five minutes. Thank you very much and id like to welcome the witnesses who are here today. This is an issue that should be familiar to all members of the subcommittee. We had a version of the hearing before and need to keep having them. All americansns with equal acces to broadband regardless of their zip codes. I havean a large urban footprint in my district i also have small towns of those desperate for modern Internet Connectivity. When im back home and other small cities want to grow the people i meet with can tell me neighborhood by neighborhood where theres connectivity and where there is not. But for for too long, the local knowledge has been undervalued and of the request for service has fallen on deaf ears. Thankfully, congress enacted and im more hopeful than ive ever been that we will be getting them the connectivityev they deserve. The bipartisan infrastructure act provides money to expand access to broadband. New deployment and adoption efforts. This includes 42 billion for the Needs Program which is new broadband infrastructure projects. They will be successful because it addresses the fundamental elements to broadband and economics. In areas where the populations are more spread out, private companies cannot afford to deploy or operate a network and in those areas to provide needed to support. The single most powerful tool we have to connect to the unserved constituents. But its imperative that we take a holistic look at the broadband support mechanisms to ensure they are solvent. Thats why im excited to join the chairman and the representative for a bipartisan bicameral working group toho modernize the universal service. The usf is one of the most effective models for expanding connectivity. Whether it is in rural areas or schools to support the telemedicine or for low income families. It is connecting america. However, without reform, the future is uncertain. Usf is a bedrock of the Communications Policy in the u. S. And its imperative we get it on solid footing. Thats why the working group is so important to show the bipartisan, bicameral willingness to address these tough issues head on. Im excited of the chairman and i will be joining to advance this effort and as we all know, it is in the only area that needs immediate attention. The Affordable Connectivity Program is helping millions of familieson afford the broadband connection. Whether thatss the first timer when you need a little extra help to make ends meet, the program is working but without additional funding more than 21 million could lose connectivity. With funding set to be completed early next year it notices the service could be going out in the Holiday Season in december. Thats a presented none of the constituents deserve to receive. Im doing all i can to give time to find a solution to sustain for the bipartisan programs that help the rural and urban families alike and it must be continued. Im also looking forward to a meaningful discussion about the Broadband Access that includes not just access to affordability but also adoption. For the Digital Equity Foundation Act to establish a Nonprofit Foundation that would channel public and private investments into Broadband Adoption and close the Digital Divide not only because it is the right thing to do but increasednl adoption means were broadband customers which includes the business case. I look forward to the fdiscussion. I yield back. The chair recognizes the gentlelady from washington for five minutes. Welcome to the witnesses. Broadband connectivity has become essential for americans. People needed to pay their bills, continue their education, open a new business into so much more. There are many communities particularly in rural areas that lack a reliable connection and that includes many in my district in washington. Energy and commerce is committed to supporting policies that lead to better and faster Internet Access. Today there are more than 130 federal broadband programs. Congress is dedicated an unprecedented amount of taxpayer funding in recent years that includes the 65 billion for broadbandgr deployment, affordability and adoption. As well as existing programs like the universal service fund. Asc resources are made available land programs are considered, we must ensure taxpayer dollars are not being wasted or duplicated. The usf has helped Internet Service providers connect homes and health centers, libraries and low income americans across the country for more than 25 years. With so many other programs working to achieve the a same or similar goal it is important that we evaluate the necessity of the usf and consider what it should to support to ensure federal resources are achieving their intended purpose. And that efforts arent being duplicated once we address the questions we can turn to how we fund the usf. Today its funded by contributions from providers based on a Revenue Source that is declining causing the contribution factor to increase and next quarter the contribution factor will hit a newre record that increases the cost of services this means that americans will soon see the highest ever fee on their phone bills. This is not sustainable. As we consider the future it is important that we develop a Stable Funding mechanism that meets the needs of the program without raising cost for hardworking americans. The Affordable Connectivity Program is also important in the context of todays discussion. This program was supposed to be a temporary bandaid to help families economically impacted by the pandemic they connected to broadband. Then congress made it permanent in has given it over 17 billion. That money will soon run out and we must consider the programs future. The program is in addition to the Lifeline Program of federal Subsidy Programs under usf designed to ensure low income americans can support the telephone service. Congress has the responsibility to ensure they run effectively and i do have questions about which program is most effective. To be consolidated or streamlined and what a federal Subsidy Program for low income americans should look like going forward. Ultimately minimizing spending, waste and fraud would ensure resources are being used efficiently and serving as many people as possible. Otherwise without careful evaluation rurals americans wil continue to watch from a distance as technologies advance. Kids will continue to grow up without online Educational Resources and businesses in Rural America will continue to be left behind as the Digital Economy booms in urban Centers Across the globe. Todays hearing is an important step as we look to the future of the Rural Broadband funding all of us here share the same goal ensuring conductivity for every american. This will improve life, strengthen the economy and ensure america wins the future. I look forward to the discussion and thank the witnesses for being here. Ther gentlelady yields back end of the chair recognizes the gentleman from new jersey for five minutes. Thank you, chairman. Today we continue to work to make highspeed Internet Service available and affordable to all americans. We took a major step in making this a reality for the bipartisan infrastructure law which was basically no one on this committee supported is investing 65 billion to bring highspeed reliable and affordable internet to every american household. Its critical because 24 million households lack Internet Service and rural and tribal areas are among those further behind the Digital Divide. Thanks to the bipartisan infrastructure law, the National Telecommunications and Information Administration will begin to distribute more than 42 billion next year to all 50 states and the u. S. Territories. The money will go first to areas completely unserved, communities desperate for robust affordable Internet Service, the private market has passed over for years. Internet service is goingng to allow the communities to grow their economies in the future and compete with the areas that have Broadband Access for years and it will be important to use the funds wisely investing in technology that is future proof and not in technologies in need of replacement in just a few years. Even when the transformational investments bring Internet Service to the most rural and remote areas of the country, the connecting is far from finished. It remains one of the most prevalent reasons americans dont subscribe to broadband. They simply cant afford it. This is particularly true in Rural America were a variety of factors lead to higher prices and lower speed. Its troubling when we consider this to show a strong correlation between to Broadband Availability and adoption and positive economic outcomes. Availability of highspeed Broadband Networks opens the door to higher employment and creeds a better environment in the business. Furthering its option actually slamming up with the service and being able to afford it each month is the link to higher incomes and lower poverty rate, greater civic and community engagement, positive Health Outcomes and enhanced Educational Opportunity and a better worker productivity. Its the bridge across the Digital Divide that connects communities and individuals to opportunities of prosperity and to work to close the device does not necessarily finish to just because of the lien or the wireless regions. The bipartisan infrastructure law will also address broadband affordability byne creating the 14. 2 lien dollars. To benefit from the program almost equally and both republican and democratic districts. Signing up for the higher rate than urban households though we should all keep this in mind as we inched closer to the looming digital cliff of the Affordable Connectivity Program the program has been so successful at signing people up that it will run out of money sooner than we thought it would. The current projections indicate that it will be completed early next year. The estimate holds true providers may haveve to start sending 90 day shutoff notices to the consumers as early as december the height of the Holiday Season informing them that they will lose the benefit in a monthly internet bill will go up causing folks to cancel their service and we simply cannot allow this to happen. I hope democrats and republicans can stand together to continue to afford others with us. We talked to the committee about the opportunity for those on the wrong end of the Digital Divide would only be exacerbated with a rush to Artificial Intelligence and other emerging technologies thus to ensure all have equal access to robust affordable Internet Service with a digital scale necessary to take advantage. We hope this is the beginning of thee conversation about how the fcc universal service fund continues to bridge the connectivity gaps in the country for years to come and i look forward to the opportunity to discuss the needs that the usf programs play to ensure the universal connectivity. With that, i yield back. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time and that will conclude the Opening Statements who now turn to the witnesses who are with us today. The Vice President relations, the president and senior fellow at the Technology Policy institute and Sarah Nichols senior planner. The chair would like to note for the witnesses that the timer light will turn yellow when you have one minute remaining and turn red when your time has expired. You are now recognized for your Opening Statement. Thank you for the invitation tont join this really important conversation this morning. Im proud to beoi your own behaf of the broadband association. Our diversee membership ranges from publicly traded companies to local and Regional Companies and coops, many of which have deep roots that go back a generation. Our members truly have connected Rural America so we appreciate the opportunity to bring our experience and perspectives to the table this morning. Its reflected for the remote areas where Broadband Service would otherwise simply not exist. The are maintaining the infrastructure with challenging terrain and simply do not add up unless the private sector and the government Work Together shoulder to shoulder. The number of programs that assist to achieve universal collectivity. Among them is the universal service fund of that includes funding to build and maintain the networks to connect Rural Americans with the promise of broadband. The once in a Generation Program will help connect even more of our communities so the question before us how can the commitment be secured and strengthened for the long haul . Many challenges come before this body do not have obvious solutions, but this one does and it comes in three parts. First until a longterm solution is established to fund, congress should appropriate the funding for this critical program. Today nearly 21 million low income households each and every one of the states count on the acp to paper Broadband Service. The connectivity is now at risk with existing funds likely depleting early next year. A second, there is absolutely no question the current contribution system needs to be modernized to meet the universal connectivityur goals and to sta, congress should give the authority it is thought to expand the contribution space to include the dominant companies and are the primary beneficiaries of the commitment to universal connectivity yet do not contribute to the fund. Itit would minimize the burden n anyone set of companies and by stabilizing the fund for the longterm the reform would ensure the resources continue to be available to keep the communities connected helping maintain and upgrade the Critical Infrastructure over time. For those who may question the value of universal service to the communities i also heard from one of our small broadband providersre that in fact without the funding the prices for service would increase roughly 3000 . U third, progress should ensure efficient and effective implementation of the program to stretch taxpayer dollars and connect unserved and underserved homes and businesses as possible this includes streamlining permitting net of the burdensome rules to maximize provider participation and prioritizing experienced providers, experienced matters. Unlike the Government Owned Networks the private sector providers have a proven track record of successfully building and operating networks to bridge then Digital Divide. And i also say that this is the moment that matters. The members stand ready, willing and able to be constructive partners securingme the future f Rural Broadband. I am an optimist we will get the job done and im happy of course to take any questionss you have. Thank you very much for your testimony. You are recognized for your Opening Statement. Members of the subcommittee thank you for inviting me here today. Government relations. We offer highspeed internet as well as iptv, phone, Advertising Services across five states, kansas, minnesota, north dakota, south dakota and wisconsin and the majority of the communities we serve our very rural. Weve invested more than 765 million in private capital in the last six years to extend and upgrade the network and im proud to say 100 of the homes andsi businesses have access but the challenges that do not yet have any Internet Service persist. In the last few years the federal government promoted hundreds of billions to create programs to get highspeed infrastructure to the areas that lack it. We cannot waste this opportunity by allowing them to lose focus or fail. There are seven pillars of the effort that we believe are key to achieving the collective goal of being broadband to all americans. Target funds to areas truly lacking service. Broadband programs should target the privateoa investment that isnt going to occur. The project area should have service to qualify. Some Programs Fund areas as low as 50 of the households already have Broadband Service. Again this takes funding away from areas that are truly unserved. Funding should also not be awarded to do to other government or words or private investment. We were overbilled by the reconnected word and south dakota even though we were building a network funded by the fcc. But because they hadnt finished construction the area was deemed unserved by usda. The specials also matter. They should only be eligible if they do not receive a basic level of Broadband Service that is 253 otherwise providers will pursue projects or upgrade to service were overbilled areas that already have Broadband Service. Unserved areas again are at the back of the line. Number two, encourage and enable the participation. Funding programs should encourage the broad participation of the providers. Some programs have advantaged networks, nonprofits or cooperatives due to the legal structure. Preferences should be reserved for the track record of successful deployments and experience to get the job done right. Number three coordinated approach with numerous federal agencies that nearly all states to get funding to broadband deployment the government must establishh communication so they do not duplicate the efforts. Program eligibility standards and requirements should be as consistent as possible and they cannot. We recently successfully challenged the grants under the program in north dakota, however the provider took the exact same application that applied for the funding and was successful in achieving them to overbilled areas. S. Numberas four, remove regulatory impediment. At the administering funding for programs must resist the temptation to layer on the policies and relations and the interconnection open access requirement burdensome labor rules discourage applicants from applying. The barriers to broadband deployment once we secure an award we must me to meetspecific deadlines but first weve got the states, local or permitting requirements to gain necessary access to begin construction. We may have to rely on others who control the polls. The permitting regulations need to bel streamlined. Number six keep americans connected. The Program Grants the low income to purchasing the Broadband Service noting that this has been a success. We are happy to participate in this program and we developed new services tailored to the requirements identified the households to educate families about the opportunities broadband offersrs yet only a yr later the Program Risks losing the continued funding. And finally, number seven is lets retool before we refuel. Once the influx congress should evaluate its impact and whether or not the program that is supported can be reduced or eliminated. In particular given the substantiall burden directly on consumers, congress and the fcc have the distribution reform and whether the continued distributions are needed or even appropriated before considering any contribution reform i commend the subcommittee for its interest to ensuree the world looks very different from the marketplace that we see out there today. Thank you for inviting me here. Thank you for your testimony. You are welcome for your Opening Statement. Distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on a Rural Broadband funding. President and a senior fellow at Technology Policy institute i have a phd in economics from stanford and i spent decades researching the universal Service Program and published widely on the topic. I hope the comments. Independent antigovernment studies find we have little to show for that investment. Recent legislation added another 100 billion about 70 billion targets the buildout and as the chair noted the gao identified 130 across 15 agencies. With a lot of money available in any event it should be spent carefully and costeffectively. First use options to distribute money. They spur the competition and the dollars and practice with the location subsidy costs by over 50 . The options are not possible at the moment because of problems in the Rural Development Opportunity Fund to the week eligibility rules the option would generate the most costeffective outcomes. Number two demand rigorous unbiased evaluations. Its vital to measure the impact of the subsidies that goes beyond merely verifying if they kept theirvi promises. Which is important but its not evaluation. The subsidized income on subsidized areas or whether the trendlines changed because of the subsidies to give you an understanding of whether the subsidyre made it different. As such should be built into the programs from the beginning. Focus on broadband specification based on what people want and value, not the Technology Behind it. Research finds they value the increase is less than with increases. It makes a huge difference but moving from 100 megabits per second to one gigabit per second they value it but not as much. To those available in the support think about a family ann anda high cost area that has no service currently. The connection in three years we can find out and let the Real World Research and guide us on what consumers prefer. In this era of new competition it should be getting smaller and we must avoid giving reasons to ask for more later for example regulated prices to satisfy the terms like middleclass asaffordability might give a provider an excuse to come back for more are giving labor argud to operate the network lets be smart to reduce the chances of these onetime subsidies. To wrap up, we put a lot of taxpayer dollars on the table and i hope you invest that money carefully and efficiently yielding the maximum benefits possible. Thank you for your time and im happy to answer any questions. Thank you for your testimony. You are recognized for five minutes for your Opening Statement. Ranking member, chair mcmorris rodgers, Ranking Member pallone and members of the subcommittee thank you for inviting me to speak about the importance of Rural Broadband and funding. My name is Sarah Nichols a senior planner that specializes in broadband into Digital Inclusion i work at the sky regionalan council he local Government Development district that serves the mountainous counties in the Appalachian Region in north carolina. One of the regions greatest challenges is the lack of access toin broadband. Broadband connectivity is essential to our residents. Especially those in the areas where broadband holds power to those by a geographic distance. It helps People Living in the communities learn to connect with loved ones and access the Government Services and yet 13,000 households in the region still lack reliable broadband. My work is to make sure the communities are seen, heard and represented so they havewo all e Digital Opportunity tools we need too thrive. The divide that creates infrastructure, affordability, devices and skills. Today i want to address two key points. Importance of the Connectivity Program and the need for continued funding for fiber especially in rural communities. First i will address acp. Poverty isun everywhere but higr in Rural America. In our region the reason most people cant adopt services due to the lack of affordability this impacts more households than the lack of infrastructure alone. Its been an important part of the solution of the challenge. In nz 11 for example there are 39,000 households and rolled although the program is new and has connected nearly 21 million households to broadband across the country its a program we simply cannot afford to lose. Furthermore Internet Service providers can deploy at ai lower cost. Thed future is in jeopardy endf congress doesnt renew at the end of this years projected to run out of funds and cease to exist. My neighbors and Western North carolina will have to wait for access to have broadband in their home. And renewing at the acp i recommend congress consider making adjustments in some areas of the region a 30 subsidy is enough to cover the cost of service. In other areas it is not merely sufficient. A second, i want to address the importance of continuing to invest in broadband infrastructure. Challenging terrain and low population make broadband deployment expensive. As we continue to serve areas overlooked we can only expect thatat the costs will continue o increase. The communities know to ask for fiber because other technologis fail them. However fiber is the most expensive to deploy. Recent funding opportunities like the American Rescue plan and the bipartisan infrastructure law have given the chance to solve some of those issues. The opportunity for increased fiber compete on a level Playing Field with our urban counterparts and to strengthen e backbone for other technologies. We are grateful for the support from congress towards closing the Digital Divide and close the gap is not over. We need more funding to build cyber not just in the last mile but middle Mile Networks that connect the communities. We need congresses helpp to increase the efficiency of the deployment by making these investments you show the communities like mind that the future of the children, safety and quality of life is worth investing in. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today and raise awareness on this important issue. I look forward to answering any questions. That does conclude Opening Statements for the witnesses that we will now see two questions for the members of the subcommittee and i will recognize myself for five minutes. Congress created a number of new programs to create the needs such as serving high cost areas, low income households and priorities for years and the universal service fund. Given the recent broadband spending do we still need the universal funding and if so which should continue . I think we need to go back and affect the program and evaluate which ones are truly needed in the servicech territories. The highcost program we served the exact same areas for people that receive high cost under usf to the tune of 1. 3 billion for the high cost. O they could take over serving those entire areas in the government 1. 3 billion under that scenario. In regards to the low income programs we touched on, one program that serves and works very well for our consumers and providers and for the government is what we need for all of our folks to stay connected. What reforms should congress consider . Would you like to start . What reforms should congress consider . We really have a great opportunity we need to move usf into the modern connectivity landscapee. Congress needs to provide the Clear Authority that it needs to be able to expand the contribution space. That is absolutely fundamental. Not only to include broadband providers but also must include dominant Big Tech Companies that still do not contribute to americas quest for connectivity affordability and equity one that would be able to fulfill its purpose and the Broadband Access can be sustainable, durable and intact over time. I think on the first thing we need to do, we need to be aware we should let it get smaller which currently is about impossible because the ruleses themselves prevent it to the High Cost Program didnt set the ceiling as manyel people think. At the amount that has been goingg out have spend decreasing up to that point and stopped decreasing because it had to so it can get smaller and as the competition comes online and should be getting smaller it cant support the competitive broadband. Nothing in the universal service fund is evaluated currently. It isnt effective and they have know way to be more so because it is and checked. To remove the costbased support we know the cost models are bad and they radically overestimate the cost. They are measured with huge error on either side and when yout see that with Competitive Bidding the subsidies come down to half or more. Its a lift to do that but its crucial to get to the size that it would really need to be. Yes or no if i may is it important for all federal agencies to use the broadband map . Yes, absolutely. My time is expired and i recognize the gentlelady from california the Ranking Member of the subcommittee for five minutes. N thank you mr. Chairman. The Affordable Connectivity Program is successfully holding more than 21 million families afford an internet connection. Unfortunately it is the expiration date. Does the acp have an impact on the rural areas and does the expiration of funds impact the likelihood of the future build outs . Thank you for the question. Yes. Rural households are disproportionately systemically challenged by Poverty Issues so they are more likely to qualify for ecp and participate if they have the broadband infrastructure to do so. Thank you. We know in rural areas the cost of broadband can vary significantly. Can you talk about the disparate impact acp benefit can have on consumer bills depending on the markets they live in . Can you repeat the question . Can you talk about the impact on consumers depending on the market bill . The cost of infrastructure is very high for the areas the challenge is that they need to make their money back and be a business of the provider. By offering the program you lower their cost to infrastructure and allow the buyin. The bipartisanth infrastructure law which is the single best tool to close the Digital Divide. States are working hard to put this to use and i know members of red and blue districts are excited about the connectivity to the constituents. There were already then calls for stateshe to return funding. Do you think all funding appropriated should be used to increase Broadband Access . Absolutely, yes. Do you have concerns of states are pressured to give up funding for other causes like paying down a National Debt we could leave householdspr unconnected . We will leave the households unconnected if we do so. The Sacramento Region is home to some of the most innovation. We are strengthening the pipeline in the laboratory to the field and working on development that will make a difference for farmers and consumers. At the institute for Food Assistance atts uc davis is developing inexpensive centers to help farmers measure nitrate, potassium. Ms. Nichols, given the rich history and agriculture, do you believe connectivity would help the regions better compete over the next few days . Yes or no . Yes. Can you discuss the relationship between connectivity on funds and ability of the areas to attract younger talent . Yes. Advancements in technology will help appeal to a younger audience within aging community this is a critical component. I introduced the act to enter access and affordability and adoption efforts to receive the investments they need to succeed. While we made progress, adoption is on factors such as age, income and education and needs to be addressed. Do you believe adoption efforts should be a pillar of connectivity policies alongside access and affordability . Yes. Can you talk about the relationship between adoption rates into broadband providers ability to serve the market . Adoption encourages infrastructure. To close the Digital Divide is imperative the federal government is a partner deploying broadband and unfortunately when the permitting it can be for broadband deployment on public land. I introduced an application act with the congresswoman here to introduce needed transparency and accountability to the federal permitting process. Our bill establishes a onestop shop online portal to ensure companies have the information they need to bringo connectiviy to the communities that back it. Ie was going to ask you but i rn out of time. Perhaps my colleagues can follow up later on. The gentlelady yields back end of the chair recognizes the chair of the full committee from washington for five minutes. Today we have two Communication Programs targeted at addressing Broadband Adoptions in the low income households. Dor we need to programs targetg the low income households and if we do not, how should we address the duplication . Its an excellent question and in our perspective its about we need to be able to extend the opportunity now for the 21 million households that have access to this program but the way that we can do that is very straightforward. Integrating within usf program allowing the potentially outofcontrol contribution factor that will potentially bog down the longevity of the universal fund mechanisms to go down and in so doing you can expand the contribution base efficiently to allow not only broadband but the dominant Big Tech Companies to participate so that we would effectively fuse the Connectivity Program with lifeline and do so in a way that would actually not require appropriated dollars from congress. Do you agree . One program that is easy for the consumers and customers to understand that it can take up time and resources from the internal perspective and the truly needed in the program that can do those things that serve its intended purpose is the way to go. It really is a good question. It makes sense to think of them together. If the answer to how they continue, one of the nice things is it comes from general revenues which is the way all the support should go as far as the broadest contribution base that you can get and i know again that may not be popular with the general revenue is the right answer. Also if we focus on adoption which i agree is important, other things matter than the price and we dont know a lot about that all the different factors that keep low income people from adopting. Theyve tried to learn this and discover theres a lot more we dont know and should learn. I have a lot of concerns about how the programs are being implemented also and i believe it is important that we are Technology Neutral and if they are favoring some technologies over others in parts of my district it doesnt work when you have a lot of mixed terrain and mountainous regions and work to ensure the universal connectivity in a costeffective way. Why is it important for the programs to use all available technology. Its essential for the government to be Technology Neutral. For thee consumers and constituents to reach those folks in ruralwe areas we have o take into consideration whats best for them so we love the availability of the multiple forms of connectivity to reach all of them and their intended needs. In many areas the terrain and at the cost. I appreciate that. Im going to move on. I wanted to ask from your perspective should we determine what we want before determining how to fund and that is should we focus on the distribution reform for the contribution reform . We should be doing everything we can do know that we are funding what it is we want to fund. Lots of money flowing. We need to answer that distribution question first. Thank you all for being here. Of the chair recognizes the gentleman from californias 29th district for five minutes. Thank you and the Ranking Member for holding this important hearing and in importg their knowledge and expertise especially in front of the several of you have made references in your testimony to the importance of continued funding for the Affordable Connectivity Program otherwise known as acp. A position i fully agree with. Acrossss the country americans depend on the 14. 2 billion the bipartisan infrastructure law invested to access affordable broadband to the tune of 21 million households. In my district 30 participated in the program thats over 69,000 families who depend on these resources for the affordable broadband. As things stand it could run out of money in early 2024 and participants may begin receiving notifications as early as december ofut this year. If we want to talk about entering know americans are left without Broadband Access, we must talk about the importance of the funding for the acp. This program that is connecting millions of americans witha affordable broadband, can you speak to the challenges that providers and participants would encounter when we launch the program if it were to lapse in the funding and if you could speak to that same question. There would be a mess of trust issues fore participants and in many cases the people who struggle with affordability may have problemse with other digil divide aspects and they wont understand the complexities of what we are discussing today. Thank you for your question. With access at a time where we are close to closing the Digital Divide fully and finally it would deal a devastating blow to the promise and futures of universal connectivity. We know that affordability is an aspect of why we havent been able to close the Digital Divide to allow that affordability mechanism to the extent to those families in need. Can you describe the preparations that are being made to notify participants that funding is expected to run out in early spring . We havent gotten to that point we started to address that but we want to make sure our friends and neighbors have access regardless and certainly cowant to continue to provide tt connectivity for them and frankly acp is the best program we have and we would truly go without that service. We are dangerously close to keeping the government open so i would preparet if i were you because i dont know if we have high hopes we will be able to continue with other negotiations and bringing together the minds of members of congress in both houses of congress what other affordable broadband options would be available for those that currently rely on the program today . There arent many options. Lifeline would be able to help some with their needs so we would hope that providers would help us step up to the plate and offered affordability options butul our optimism is low given the cost of deployment we talk about the children who have to sit in parking lots of businesses in order for them to connect and get their homework done to get basic access to the things that some of us are fortunate to take for granted. Lets not t forget that. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss the speed for the American People into being that over 21 million American Families have been connected since we brought this into existencee i think its importat for us to understand that in order for us to continue to have trust. Even if we change it and modify we have to come to grips with the fact if we dont continue thisri program we are going to lose the faith and confidence of many across america people who need us the most. My time has expired and i yield back. The timele is expired and recognizing the gentleman from floridas 12th district. I appreciate it very much. The committee has worked on closing the divide, the Digital Divide for decades as you know. Rural americans remain on the strong side of the connectivity unfortunately and for hernando and citrus counties those they represent in florida and reliable connectivity continues to bee toptier issues. All families need access to reliable highspeed internet regardless of their zip code as quickly as possible and i believe its a bipartisan goal so that citizens get connected and taxpayers are off the hook. Speed is key. Permitting disputes and delays can Start Construction in their tracks and this incentivizes the buildout to the communities we are trying to target with all these federal programs. Delays result in the forfeiture of billions of dollars in economic gains every year that would otherwise benefit people across the country and encompass commercial educational, health, agricultural and endless other benefits. The importance of broadband is too great and the investments by taxpayers are too big for us to not consider common sense permitting reforms. Florida has recognized this and alreadyy acted to make some of the reforms for Broadband Access to more residents. I have a couple of questions can you provide some examples of how existing attachment loopholes and delayed or preventive build outs to unserved, not just underserved areas and can you estimate the additional time and cost that result from these delays . Just recently we heard from one of our members a local provider that told us shockingly because a Rural Electric coop made it difficult for them to actually access the buildout program for an area where there weres underserved and underserd residents delayed by over a year. This is unattainable if we want a need for speed just as you said. We haveed to ensure within sectn 224 with a barrier speedy, efficiently and comprehensive broadband deployment. Thank you again. Weve seen a few states and most recently passing legislation to streamline and create a more uniform deciding process for all market participants. Have you found that this has encouraged the buildout in those areas and are there any other benefits to this . Absolutely. The more we have a level Playing Field when it comes to accessing the poles and the deployment, we will know to be able to expedite the process of the deployment and do it moret efficiently. Its important that we move forward. At the end of the day if we can lower the cost again of the buildout, the taxpayer money can be spent more effectively today so that we no longer have to sacrifice more taxpayer money. I appreciate you having this hearing. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. The gentleman yields back and recognizes the gentleman from florida for five minutes. Thank you for hosting this important oversight hearing today. We have a big job to do. Historic investments from the infrastructure law over 65 billion adding 10 billion from the American Rescue plan and we have the capital to be able to fundamentally alter america to make sure we bring and our job is to make sure its overseen in my home state of florida we see 2. 7 billion coming in to help with this buildout. Also we look at the work thats being done in my own district. At best theres a few hundred people but they didnt have access and they are working hard to feed america in the local ranches and doing great work to help with Wildlife Corridors and other areas. So its about access. But its also about affordability. Thats where its a key part of this equation. We appreciate the united way and helping seniors folks are working every day to make ends meet. In addition, to the improvement act of 2023 that merges the pilot reconnect program with existing programs to help the department of agriculture. We are here to talk about the universal service fund, but theres a reason to be worried. The circuit heard a challenge earlier this year to the constitutionality of usf. Aspects need to be modernized and its held countless schools and libraries provide Internet Connectivity to students and of the public to help build out the 5g and other technologies in Rural America. What would the impact be if they find in favor of the plants and eliminate as we know it you would guarantee to close the Digital Divide if we dont have a viable sustainable and resilient universal fund and Congress Needs to be able to ensure the longevity and sustainability. The concerns that the representative brought up about that gap we sold during the pandemic of folks in many districts including some in mine in parking lots of restaurants trying to catch a little bit of wifi so they can do their homework more of this would happen if the fund is done is that correct . You can guarantee that will happen. I introduced a bill that i referenced to the act of 2023 requiring to use the maps to the areas. Why is thisll important for the federal agencies to work off the same maps and investments and how can this increase coordination between agencies that distribute these grants . We support the act. If everybody uses the same maps it would be better to limit any overbuilding and to make sure they are up to the threshold of the people that could be overbuilt. They continue the stronger requirements and eliminate that and we appreciate the support of that act. And a lot of the areas that are holding feed america and other products how critical is it to make sure we get internet to these areas . Its essential we get after them and weve got to use a technology to provide the right type of service to reach the right end user. Thanks and i will yield back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from michigan for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman and to the panel for being here. Ive been known to be a dripping faucet. Some of my colleagues may be a pain on this issue of the necessity of Rural Broadband. I dont want the students in the parking lots of restaurants and schools et cetera but i dont see how we can get the combines instructors that need all this technology it just doesnt work well for harvesting or planting so we need to continue pushing on this and making it a top priority but also we cant waste our funds or efforts. There has to be coordination thats why i introduced the plan that stems from the record that some of the witnesses mentioned is critical in the testimony and i appreciate that. How could the lack of National Strategy with rules and objectives impact providers and their ability to connect to all of america . Thanks for that question. All of these programs will have overlapping objectives. Its going to make it harder to achieve any particular goal. There will be wasted waste and overbuilding as pointed out. I dont want to imply that it would be easy. The economics director on the broadband coming up with a National Strategy is difficult but having allim these programs isnt the best way to go without having a strategy for them. Let me jump over and ask you to elaborate on any coordination problems you had as your Company Works with these programs. Its very challenging. Its like youre playing defense and you have the customer testimonials. Successful with one federal agency and the provider wants to go to another agency. Thats just veryry frustrating. The agencies cant coordinate and we need to start stamping some of these areas to share that paperwork with us and notify us that this is a challenge that has been successful and notify the others that this is in the map and its been taken care of. We need to get after that because otherwise those that dont have Service Still remain that way and weve got to have that strategy for those that have no broadband get served first. Its not okay for folks to get a second, third, fourth bite at the apple with concern for the folks thatt truly dont have broadband today. That doesnt mean we shouldnt explore reforms. It provides 30 subsidy to help make broadband affordable for low income americans. We participate in acp. How does this influence how you design the plans and do you feel thatat you have appropriate flexibility . Giving consumers a choice helps them provide the level of service that they need. As i mentioned before, the tools are better than the other programs. So again that right tool at the right price point your constituents from our consumers are able to work through and the taxpayer as well so if we work for those are low income folks gain the benefit of that connectivity to do their schooling end of the things they need to do and we do feel that that is essential. We have two more questions and we will submit that. Of the chair recognizes the gentlelady from New Hampshire for five minutes. You are never a pain in the keister. I want to focus on the key message of the hearing connecting every american to provide a Broadband Access nationwide we need to address the barriers to access for the communities that are still unserved or underserved such as my district in the rural community. You serve in the regions similar to my district in New Hampshire. I know you understand the challenges the communities face. In your testimony you take a holistic approach to closing the Digital Divide by addressing both the lack of access and affordability. Can youe speak to how the Connectivity Program helps to address these barriers of affordability and available broadband infrastructure . We worked a lot in this space to get connectivity in the places that need it the most and that includes as the technology and affordability so we found in the rural areas that lend itself to needing to take a onetwo approach of access. But even those things alone do not close the Digital Divide. And its helping to bridge the affordability gap with 21 million including over 18,000 in my district in New Hampshire. Congress must continue to invest and i joined my colleagues and sending a letter to the president and congressional leadership urging them to come to an agreement to continue funding the program and prevent it from lapsing next year. I want to thank my colleagues, our cochairs,in representative craig and whitman and show the necessary bipartisanship to get this done. Id like to submit this letter to the record. Congress made major federal investments in the broadband infrastructure like the middle mile program. In New Hampshire recently awarded a 12 milliondollar middle mile grant to install fiberglass the backbone ofba the region and they will transform access to broadband for this region in my district. Can you speak to how this investment in the backbone will support the buildout of Additional Technology needed to reach thefo communities . They are excruciatingly necessary to build out. At the last mile is dependent to reach every american in this country. Most effective to support other technologies such as wireless and or needed to hold the Emergency Management support services. Thank you. For many living in rural and unserved or underserved regions, the lack of Broadband Access means many of the services are still out of reach. I am committed to providing Broadband Service to every household that america and i look forward to working with my colleagues to ensure we do not take steps backwards and efforts to close the Digital Divide and with that, i yield back with over a minute to go. The gentlelady yields back. The vice chair of the subcommittee for five minutes. Thank all of you for being here. This is extremely important. I represent south georgia and we have a saying in georgia theres atlanta and vendors everywhere else and i represent everywhere else and everywhere else is rural. We are trying to close the Digital Divide. Thats what we want to do, make sure everybody has access, but its we also want to make sure thed programs are working efficiently and effectively. I have to be quite honest with you over 130 programs it just seems like weve got way too many. We need 130 of them i think we are all after the same goal of closingg the Digital Divide, but 130, goodness gracious. Let me ask you according to the fcc theres over 20 million households that have enrolled in the Affordable Connectivity Program. How many of these enrollees were broadband subscribers, do you have any idea how many of them are just going to consumers tht have already been connected . We dont know the answer to that question. I think that there is a mistake we confuse inputs with outputs. How would you evaluate whether it is a success or not . I think you are on the right track. We want to know what the goal is and if it is to close the Digital Divide the question is how many additional people are subscribing and also how many people stayed on because of the acp. So if that isi the question. What kind of reforms would you make if he had the chance . Its from general revenues which is appropriate and its a Voucher Program that lets consumers choose where they want the money to go. Aboutt other things could chang. Its a 30 subsidy. I dont know if that is too much or too little but any price between zero and 30 is zero dollars to the consumer so its kind of a not great effect on price competition at the low end. One possibility might be to allow the voucher to be split between two companies so i think things like that could be helpful. I think it is just getting the rollout restoring its infancy. We are going to need time to do the kind of evaluation suggested that is going to be absolutely critical to ensure that if we are going to suggest effective reforms that we have the right kind of data to be able to do so. How does permitting play a role in the picture of broadband and how does it promote Global Competitiveness . Thank you for the question. Thats absolutely key. We had issues, there was a road through the area through forestland. We werent able to access right of way. 200,000 to run pole through that rock. The pole company, you know, challenges were to replace the pole. The reality when youre running into different challenges to serve, one of our last trawley places in america puts tremendous burden on a provider to solve the issues in a short period of time. It make it difficult where we would have had challenges eliminated, we would have service to those folks today. Thank yall. 130, too many. Theo gentlemans time has expired and the chair recognized the general lady of illinois for five minutes. Thank you to our witnesses for participating. Over the year like my colleagues serving on this committee have increasingly concern by the Digital Divide in this country. As many of you neglect my district has become rural, i now represent 2,000 farms. As i said before, my constituents in illinois, theres no dispute that expanding access to reliable and affordable Internet Services is one of the most beneficial things that canha happen to my constituentsck and ensure that l americans can participate in modern society. I commend the biden administrations commitment to close Digital Divide by signing into law the historic bipartisan law which made 625 billiondollar investment to bring high speed to every u. S. Household. The programs established by the bipartisan infrastructure law5 will pave ways to people to have Internet Servicesment one such program that i would like to highlight is the 42 billiondollar broad band equity to expand highspeed Internet Access by funding deployment of internet infrastructure. The program will have substantial impact in all communities but particularly rural, underserved communities. My district start in chicago and then goes 3 hours south and some amount of time left my home stat illinois 10 of households have no Internet Access or device that connects to the internet and as it continues to rollout this program to address this very issue, can you discuss the importance of states and local governments working with the private sector to find the most Affordable Solutions to connect rural, underserved, and unserved communities . Of the programs are complicated and there is a lot of work to be done. I do agree there needs to be a streamlined approach. But coordination between the federal, state, local governments and providers and residents of these communities is an effective strategy because collectively we can make the right map and buildout. Lets move to the acp program and there are hundreds of thousands of those in illinois and american households Access Internet without for going necessities like food and groceries, medicine, utilities and housing. Given there are reports that acp could run out of funding as soon as mid2024, and i have heard as early as march, how important is it for congress to act to ensure the acp remains funded and after you give your answer if any other panelists would like to comment. It is a critical part of how Rural America and america is getting access to those Critical Services and losing it at this point would be devastating causing massive mistrust between the relationship we build with our communities. Thank you. Any other witness would like to comment . No . Okay. In your testimony you noticed it was important for congress to make strides toward getting universal connections and do you think americans are sufficiently aware and educated on ai as an important component of digital connectivity and literacy . It absolutely is important, not only of the future Digital Literacy but the fundamentals about how the networks will be working and ai will be a driver significantly, and they have been integrated already internet works and for how we will actually be communicating across the future networks of our nation. Ai needs to be thought of comprehensively through as tuitt how can be an accelerator of connections and we need to take an approach towards it that i think is one of optimism to see what benefits it can bring rather than more of a regulatory instinct at first. When we do so, i think we will find potential benefits for the integration of ai into the future of america and connection. We need a lot more education and i have learned a lot since ive been in congress and there is more to learn but i think the public tends to be a little bit more afraid of it. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. The time is expired in the chair now recognizes the gentleman of utah for five minutes. Thank you and i need half a second here. This is an important topic to me and i had the opportunity to serve as mayor of a city. The city tried to bring broadband into the city and through a number of efforts that were sometimes not very successful we were able to bring gigs speed in 15 or 20 years ago into the city and offer Free Internet to all of our residents and i am sure there is no other city that is actually done that. As i look at this program that we have to make sure everybody has access to internet, i can acknowledge all of the good in it and also i worry about the stability on the foundation that is underneath it. And maybe quickly could ask dr. Wallsten to talk about the foundation and how stable that is. I guess there are two parts and one is the current bead and other programs and i do worry about the long term and what will happen in the longterm because of that and we want to make sure these are subsidies to build out and not reasons to make the fund grow even more because it is easy to see Networks Coming back in a few years and saying we need more money for this and it seems to be hard to say no to more money. So that is a problem. Somebody suggested that scc videos streaming platforms or other edge providers to help support broadband buildout or setting aside their authority and is it necessary or even a good idea . The current contribution mechanism is not going to work and the tax rate goes up. And the best option is for it to come from general revenues which is the way to spread across the largest tax base. Otherwise, i think we are getting into an antitrust style discussion of what this market looks like. That becomes really complicated. Mr. Spalter, how do you view the funding of this, the edge providers . Is a good idea . And if you set aside the authority of the fcc . I think the opportunity to expand the contribution base in a way that actually will reflect the modern connectivity landscape requires us to expand that is to include the big tech internet companies. We do know that the dominant internet Big Tech Companies now have market capitalization in the axis of 9 trillion. If we want to have a universal service fund that is a fundamentally reformed and capable of doing its work, ensuring we can provide operational expenses to expand and upgrade and repair networks, it is time for those dominant companies to fairly and reasonably be part of the solution set. You are not at the table. There have been proposals to assess contributions paid for by broadband providers based on revenue generated from Broadband Services are based on the number of subscribers or connections provided, but what challenges do you see there and i will give you a chance to respond to that, dr. Wallsten. But what challenges are there . The inclusion of Broadband Services into the contribution base is important. But i dont think it is sufficient. We have seen modeling that suggests that effectually Broadband Services are included in the formula that establishes the contribution factor, we will be able to push that down but only temporarily and we need to actually go beyond that. I do appreciate your answer but i want to give mr. Wilson a chance to respond. The foundation of that mechanism doesnt make sense and we tax a service to provide a service. If we head down that road, the economics answer is the tax will have the smallest effect on consumer behavior. And it will have the smallest real effect on the economy. I wish we had more time to explore this and i would love to give you a minute so i will have to yield back. The gentlemans time has expired and votes have been called and i want to get a Ranking Member of the full committees questions and we will recess and go vote and come back so the gentleman from new jersey, the Ranking Member is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. We already talked about the harm of letting the acp run out of funding especially right now as the bipartisan infrastructure law is set to bring affordable internet unserved areas across the country. Let me ask, how are Internet Service providers factoring acp into their deployment planning decisions, and how does the uncertainty of the programs future affect that . The acp is an essential part of that plan and particularly in the context of bead where there are states requiring that access to that funding has to have a prerequisite of participation in the program. So those are tied together and an absence of clarity about the future of the acp, it will be enormously difficult for broadband providers small and large to plan successfully to make sure that their Investments Building networks will be able to be planned in a way that will reach the underserved and low income families that are in those areas. We love to bring her services to more people who want them and more communities and of course anywhere where it makes sense so when we look at these areas to deploy and oftentimes under our franchising authority we go into the Community Ready to serve the whole community and that means low income folks there and we certainly dont want anybody to go without services so it is something we take into account and we are working and for us it is better when we go into a new community. I have to say i am struck i the numbers we have heard today regarding the amount of money the country has spent over the last decade supporting internet infrastructure in rural areas but it seems to be that for too long we have supported good enough infrastructure that is kept these communities constantly behind the curve. I think that is an unfortunate use of Government Funds so let me ask, and i think this is what you referred to in your testimony is some thing is better than nothing projects. Can you tell us how Government Investment and future proof of internet infrastructure combined with a sustainable acp will help your area and local economies and role of economies and communities . I believe it is about not duplicating projects over and over and fiber is the most scalable and reliable future strategy we have so cost efficiency is lost when we have to keep coming to these hearings and reappropriating funding year after year to do technologies that only our band aid approaches to the solution. What would you like to see different . And what do you propose we do differently with existing programs or in the future . s the 25 three standard is already behind and the need for technology increases will keep going so put in a strategy that allows for that baseline to come in the play and the Fiber Network solves that solution. So rather than keep putting in 25 320 put in the Gigabit Solution now so we can spend it when the cost is the cheapest. My last questions about the universal service fund and there is an active conversation about the entities that should pay into the fund but i think its important to start with a vision of how it will continue to support universal connectivity into the United States in the future. So i will ask, what kinds of programs do you think are important for the universal service fund to support in the future, it is a question that goes to the heart of what we talk about when we talk about reform and i think the critical programs will be those that will sustain and focus on operational expenses that allow us to continue to optimize those investments that we are making in the networks via the cat investments so we can maintain those in areas where its not economic to do so so i think the high cost is critical and affordability will be huge part of the future of usf and current we lifeline, if it can be integrated with acp in the future framework will be the best shot and actually ensuring that those of families and households that simply cant afford broadband are able to do so. I do agree with the affordability programs and i would add to the list other Digital Equity tools such as devices and skills training and also Emergency Management services such as towers. Thank you. The time has expired and we are in the first votes of the first series today so what i would like to do is we will recess and good morning again. The vote, we think the two boats are over right now. But at this time i would like to recognize the gentleman from pennsylvania for five minutes for questions. Enqueue chairman and Ranking Members for conducting todays hearing on broadband in the future federal broadband programs. The government made an historic investment our nations broadband infrastructure with the recent b program. Rural pennsylvania specifically is a beneficiary with 1. 16 billion gault went to the state, to my district to help those previously unserved by broadband. Conductivity has become a necessity for my constituents, since their livelihoods and as our economy becomes dependent on strong, fast, internet connection. Telehealth, work, agriculture, and more. However, our work is just starting. We must ensure that the government is being that responsible steward of the hard earned taxpayer dollars, and is only promoting broadband programs that will help the american public. Mister 40 . The fcc is entering the third iteration of the broadband. These maps not only show where the services being provided, but also the level of service and Technology Utilized in a certain location. As we reevaluate, what funding is still needed to connect every american and what rules should the fcc maps to ensure limited overlap and waste between federal agencies. Yes, thank you for the question. We absolutely have everybody using the fccs map to make sure there is no overbuilding thats going on. If we have all of these programs work correctly, the resources are there to close the Digital Divide. If we go after the Technology Neutral manner and use all of our future proof technologies, all technologies are future proof, we would not deploy a connection that would not if we can do that and attack all of our unserved addresses, there is enough money to serve those areas and we can all use the same map and continue to make sure the areas on the map and theres no overbuilding this can be a goal that can be accomplished with the current funding that is out there. Mr. 40 , many Beer Companies participate in the affordable connectivity or acp. In fact, as of august first of this year, pennsylvania alone has over 660,000 enrollees however despite this large number of household, that of artery enrolled in the program, it is unclear whether acp enrollees had previously described broadband before this benefit. Does your company keep track of how many acp subscribers existed before the implementation of this program . Yes. So would go has about 11,000 with cocustomers in about 2000 of them are new. You feel that should be the industry standards that we recognize how much this additional funding is going to encourage and allow additional individuals to participate . We certainly dont want anybody to go without a connection and want to make sure that we can provide our services for free so certainly to those low income individuals we want to make sure they are still access connectivity so they can do the things that they need to do with it to find a job and educate their kids. I agree with that. To find a job, to find a job, to have the telehealth access they need and engagement from rural broad band as well. We all need this. Every constituent and our commitment to make sure that the funds are adequately there. But also make sure that they are not overlap and overspending to occur. I think each of the members for being present today, i think all of the witnesses for being here today to further this enrollment and further the Rural Broadband throughout pennsylvania and throughout and sylvania. You, mr. Chairman, i yield. Think you the chairman yields back the chart this time recognizes gentleman from ohios 12th district for five minutes for questioning. Take you, mr. Chairman, thank you all for being here today and everybody. My first question is, for mr. Forte, in your testimony you mentioned that Internet Service providers should be allowed to participate in federal broadband programs. Fiber remains one of the most reliable ways to connect americans to the highest available speed given geographic differences in the time it takes to buildout it may not be a viable for everywhere. In my district a local fix wireless company, ohio tt has worked with the individuals of somerset to connect residents the internet. This was the first time my constituents in somerset were able to connect to the internet in their homes. It took just 29 days from getting approval from the village to getting the first resident connected. Ohio tt now serves large portions of kinshasa county where internet has been very slow. We always get our constituents connected as quickly as possible. As speed bailouts can be taking years, we can get rural customers connected in munford im a fan of fiber but i have also seen firsthand how its hard to reach these communities in my district. They benefit from a x wireless and to the federal government. Mr. Forte understand that medco operate some of the fixed wireless networks. Can you explain the benefits of these networks and understood what circumstances you might choose to build a fixed wireless network, whether than a Fiber Network . I couldnt agree more. Again we want to use the best tools in the toolbox with what you said, during covid our folks hooked up thousands of customers for their Educational Needs in a few days. We only have six months or so where we can build and most of our service area because of the weather. Thats a great reason to use a fixed wireless, we have agriculture communities and very sparsely populated homes who may be eight or 10 miles away where we can, we and eight along nine mile driveway. I dont think its a situation where the government should be looking at fiber similarly there might be folks that have very expensive Vacation Home up the hill, talk about 200,000 a mile and another instances where fixed my wire is really the best choice. You hear a lot about instances of fiber, we totally use fiber throughout our network. But it isnt always the best tool in the toolbox because of all those challenges. You know, our fixed Wireless Technology it is future proof. All technology we deploy we would not Deploy Technology that isnt teacher proof. I myself am a wireless customer ive had it for 12 years ive had 27 odd connected devices on my small family farm. Three ipt tvs come i never had an issue at all with my connection. In fact if you ask my wife that you want to fiber the farm she would say no, we are not tearing up the yard. We want to keep her happy. My next question is for all witnesses. At i would like to move on to the rural digital Opportunity Fund, this is intended to be a twophase auction, a total of nine point 2 billion for broadband being out to across Rural America. For states receiving the funny, some are wondering if we should even move forward with phase 2. This is a question for any of the witnesses and can you tell me what you inc. Of it what you did right and what he did wrong and how we can improve future fcc funding programs including phase 2 if it happens. Gentlemen, my mother has taught me ladies first, please. Ms. Nichols . Thank you for the questions. In our area ties up a lot of the territory served into very long time frame. So my key complaint although we are seeing build off started to strategize is the funding could be implemented faster. So securing the areas in locking them up this emblematic. Thank you, doctor . The key problems with art off , with the eligibility rules, peep companies that werent allowed to do with a promised and the second was when the fcc changed its rules, about space execs, there was an argument of whether they should or should not of been created a real credibility problem. But, i think it is important to make sure that artoff and we dont overlap. Im going to skip you, mr. Sparta. I will reserve. Okay. Take you mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you gentlemen, your time has expired and am going to see another member coming to the door and another 30 seconds. Again to our witnesses i really appreciate your testimony today because this is a topic that we are very interested in, i know one of the numbers mr. Rancor if you would like 30 seconds, two if you like. Several years ago the number was about 1. 7 trillion invested by private industry out there to expand broadband. Today it is up to 2. 1 trillion. So the numbers going up. Anyone willing to make a comic . Thank you, mr. Chairman. As you all know, broadband is important and we have the funding and indeed were never going to get that at again. We really need to be smart about how we put this out and be intentional about it. I think we can look back and say there have been mistakes made but lets not make any mistakes this time. We understand what is critical here in the public is watching. And all these unserved areas, its incredible, i have a big urban presence, in the big cities of sacramento and two other larger cities, but i got a huge territory of smaller cities, actually towns and farms. And they are hungry. This is what they really want, and we have to be successful in those rural areas, so thank you. Take you purchasing that we have no other members present at this time, i asked to put in the record the documents included on this list without objection so ordered. I remind members that they have 10 Business Days to submit questions for the record and ask any witnesses whose respond to the questions probably. Membership should submit answers with the close of business by october fifth. And thank you to our witnesses for being here today. And we are adjourned. Thank you. On wednesday epa administrator michael testified about science and technology and decisionmaking ocesses, you can watch the hearing live at 10 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan 3, cspan mobile app or cspan. Org. Cspan unfiltered view of government. We are funded by these Television Companies and more including comcast. You think this is just a Community Center . No, its way more than that. Comcast is partnering with a thousand Community Centers to create wifi so students with lowincome families can get tools they need to be ready for anything. Congress has until saturday at midnight to pass additional funding. The senate is considering shortterm spending bill to begi work on the measure as House Republicans continue to negotiate their own version of a continuing resolution