Whats the full program any time at booktv. Org. Just search chris hedges or the title of his book the greatest evil is war. Today were lucky to feature justine reisman. Among other places covering such subjects the book of job, the famous comic series her book true believer the rise and fall told the story ofll marvels mot amos cameo from early success. Now and her new book rang a master she asks the question do we live in a world that we create a questioning of seller who affected and why . Joining her in conversation is just the author of 30,000 steps a memoir of sprinting toward life. As written articles and among others shes worked alongside ngos and increased the ability of medication. Here is josephine grisman and jesse keith. Hi everybody. Height notes real when you have two microphones. The first time and Vince Mcmahon ever did a bad guy was not even for hisr own company is for another company and in the video clip with him doing his first little monologue hes trying to antagonize an audience he is holding two microphones a. Its a very odd site or that back a bit too. Sorry to ask a question for a quick thank you all for being here and delighted to be here with you as well. I am excited to get into it are you excited to get into it . I was born ready lets do it. I loved reading this book. It is a very vivid and colorful story in addition to be a fascinating look at the late stage posterior reality before we get into the deeper it seems im always interested in them author. I will askto you, when did wrestling come on your radar as an interest as a child . I have to do the math on that myself once i sort of found out about the timeline of historical events i could figure out im pretty sure i first saw it wrestling when i was six years old. Which would have been around 1990 or so. 1991. It was lake late stage whole khamenei effort hulk hogan have been very popular in the 1980s especially the mid 1980s and he was on the wane. But i had never seen him before. Maybe i had heard of him, i dont know. I was six at it as a vivid memory of what i knew. But my physiology was but i saw him rip his shirt off. That is what the holster used to do but hean would take his shirt and rip it open. And toss it away. I thought that was the coolest thing i had ever seen on television. I went to my mom and said i would like to get a tear away tshirt thinking that was a kind of shirt you goodbye. On that isth what he is using. Every day there away tshirt. And my mom, this book is dedicated to my mom because, god bless her incentives and child, go watch pbs she said okay, she took one of my little kid tshirts cut a slit down the middle and put holes in the side and put shoestrings in so i could sort of pull it open it. It wasnt exactly ripping it open and turning it off. It was reusable. I wish i had that shirt. That was from so long ago. I dont happen to it. But it didnt really stick with me. I did not become a regular watcher of wrestling until much later. But 15 and a half. I heard resisted wrestling from the playgrounds of my youth. Like bullies love wrestling there were jerks too me. Which was one of these slogans of the wwf at the time. The slogan was about two words for you, suck it. There is something so sexually confusing about all of that. I got into because my best friend brian who did have good taste and did not believe me unless i deserved it, he was just flipping channels is one dead back in theac day and saw something crazy on wwf television he did know what he was. He said i was flipping and i saw something unbelievable i wish to amember what it was but a member thinking you cant put that on television. That does not narrow it down from 1999. Sometime in the earlyth months that youve got to check this out. But late 2001 wrestling was a huge part of my diet, my philosophy, the conception of what it meant a boy, a man. And with aspiring to be taught by any and all of that. There is so much in there. That was myy entree. We came up at the same time. I have a neighborhood friend who is very much into whole cogan as well. For the Chicago Bulls and whole cogan. We were young we would go over there. Even if you are not a fan. That was true before Vincent Mcmahon but it happened in the Vince Mcmahon era in a different way. The wrestlers were cool or think they areoo cool. Even before that even before wrestling was cool and involved the mainstream i remember talking to my dad when i got the contract my dad was not a stwrestling fan. As psaki hates wrestling but no one would identifying him as a wrestling and he has not watched it. I too much going to do this book is it i remember seeing martino at the garden i like are you kidding me . Your wrestling then he said no. My dad took me. You grew up in providence is dad hisdad were driving to boston ad they would see wrestling and that happened be the wrestling vince Mickey Mantle was dad was producing. The point was wrestling and bleats out in the culture in always has. Quick certainly. I let that right away in the book you get will talk about. I remember very vividly my cultural awareness of wrestling really evolved around is it real discussion . And how much of that i wanted to ask you as a young fan. You say interestingly in thehe book there is a bit about how much people were really actually thinking it was real or deferring. So as a young wrestling bandages think it was real . Quick to some of the great mystery of my life. I know i knew it was not all on the level. I genuinely cannot reconstruct in my head what my theory of reality was for wrestling. And here is the thing. I am not alone in that. You look back on your wrestling watching, i think most wrestling watchers can tell you this. You look back and go oh yeah, what did i believe . That is not necessarily a turn off if you are confused. In fact i would argue the confusion it what keeps you coming back with you realize it or not. That constant effort to sort what you are seeing into fact or fiction. At least as of the turn of the millennium went wrestling was going really hardhe. That was really hard to look away from. Youre like im so baffled my mind wants to focus on this to try to sort it out. Proxy later days we agreed its not real it still goes on though. Even by the time i was watching it was known to meet not real. That was the weird thing 10 years prior in 1989 the New York Times had run a story about the deregulation effort for wrestling in new jersey the headline was now it can be told this wrestlers are just having fun. It was 5. 1989 it was the end of the old code that said everything you see in the ring is real. That was done that 19891999 its a 10 years. I still cannot tell you what parts i thought were fake. I was so caught up in it i dont think that mattered tote me but. Doesnt seemed like it mattered to most people. Or some comfort in knowing it is fake. If you do not know the terms of the fakeness allows you to watch the violet not recoil. You can say at least it is fake. They still always managed and you talk about this as we move forward in time they managed to place those nuggets in your head. The wrestling is fake but these guys really do hate each other. [laughter] exactly executives incident 1997 the montreal screw job something was at least for most of the people who witnessed it or were involved in it not expected or scripted something for lack of a better term real happened. The entire industry every viewer of wrestling on some level. Whether they admit it or not still chasing the high at that time when reality broke through. You can really tease people stuff that feels real make them at least go up maybe . That is the fun too. That is the fun i know. No other artform other than reality tv in the the taylor swift really gets that on that level. That is triplicates taylor somethings the exact same thing. Its you have a false sense you are seeing behind the curtain. The truth is you can stay in character behind the curtain and be a different kind of character it is still alive. But people because they think theyre seeing something beyond the veil they get excited and think i know the whole truth. Whether thats t swift or vanderpump or jon. Whatever. Yes that is wild. Another thing i wanted to ask him talking about performance element of wrestling. The book to such an amazing job of putting youe in these scenes that are unfolding and raw and the various wrestling programs i wanted to know because you describe it so vividly do you remember any scenes specifically . When you were eight young fans it anything surprise you when youre re watching it and read researching was or anything new . Even i hadha a moment i looked t that pay. This image is etched in my mind theres a reason theres an epilogue after this. Its the last image after you finish the last chapter there is a reason why the text of the last chapter ends up describing that image. It is for me the seminole moment of my fascination which is what led us to this book. I remember it was june 6 might be an exact date wrong , 99 Boston Fleet Center is watching from home in chicago, illinois and oak park, illinois. I remember the end of this long storyline about who is the greater power . Who is this villain who is so villainous he is been torturing Vince Mcmahon even evil Vince Mcmahon pales before the greater power the greater power orders the undertaker to do unholy things like threatened to almost raped Vince Mcmahons daughter really rough stuff for their trying to build up whos the bigger power . Who has theat greater power . Long story short like the week before they announced because they did not have a plan for the greater powers that be, they decided nobody made sense other than vince for even that did not make sense but it made a wrestling sense. Because he was a greater power than Vince Mcmahon . Who is the only person more diabolical in the world of wrestling that Vince Mcmahon . Vince mcmahon. Or more importantly greater power there is never a greater power. Now we have our emanuel. Prior to that theres g never bn a greater power than this. So it was perfect. Coming out in a hooded robe and in a moment of repeat back and show his face. I just started watching while Vince Mcmahon was a good guy. Im trying to go maybe this isnt so bad . That was whenet i came into stat watching. Six like a nice and businessmen may be tough as nails but gets the job done. Then you reveal he arrange the Sexual Assault of his own daughter. And i was like who is this monster . I guess this book is a way to attempt to deconstruct the character he was playing inn that. To figure outwh who that characr was based on and where it came from. Speaking of entities that one considered to be good guys and now maybe that is not so clear there is a big allegory in the book about the United States of america. The world environment we all live in. The political figures its very easy to see how wrestling and the drama of it all as opposing violence of it all connects to it. Thats very interesting. With that on your mind . Yes. I wrote the proposal for this book and i believe a late april of 2020. I first had the idea with my spouse the wonderful journalist and editor weve been brainstorming ideas for what to do with the book too. One said Vince Mcmahon i dont member which one of us it was. But then came back to the idea is about february 20, 2020. Then a lot of stuff happened. Ultimately i found myself locked in my little apartment in brooklyn with my then fiance. We had three cats a lot of panic and anxiety and i poured all of that into the book proposal. Im so mad and scared about where this country went. When this book tv an attempt not to find the reason there is no one reason. But to trace one light of dominance it is not been traced before which is a Pro Wrestling connection to trump in the progress in connection to the broader culture. And i did not wanted to be screw Pro Wrestling by any means. I love Pro Wrestling its a beautiful artform. Artform great, industry abhorred. That is not unique to wrestling last book was the about the comic book industry. Great medium, unforgivable industry. It has a lot of the same streets that unforgivenrg ability. Speaking of, perfectly betrayal of trump is really interesting. I think to me he comes across as almost like a little daffy. Trump are you . To live in this world work trump is what he is now. Its always a funny teacher member 80s trump. Not just 80s trump. I am proud to say this has a 50s a trump. We have a flashback to one of Donald Trumps childhood friends went on the record saying when we were growing up in queens littleul donnie would watch wrestling with us there is a wrestler named anthony he just thought the name scott and he refused to call him that he only calm and the neo. This iss quote you do the math and he think he was washing Mcmahon Family wrestling in queens. He was one of mcmahons senior wrestlers one of the star wrestlers. Donald trump has been a wrestling had since he was a child. He was single digit age per. The way he comes across in the times we see him talking about atlantic city, talking about and what of my favorite fragrances like what an honor it was but. Because is very deferential. Proxy was he loves wrestling. Excess interesting and a very funny a lot of deadpan humor in the moment were trumpt, genuiney calls with somebody . Oh yes. A Single Source a story triple e of Vince Mcmahon soninlaw did an interview number of years ago he said the morning after a nighttime show work Vince Mcmahon had faced his death as a character on a Television Program trump called up deb deborah ian said is vince okay . You what to believe. But the single store. A front writers perspective i felt like he made a lot of deliberate choices that how to portray trump on the book appear. I had to he is the elephant in the room you do not want to just be about him for. About very deliberate it also felt veryfe restrained. Thank you. Appreciatek that. It is like he has become a larger than life figure. Especially now was it difficult to get to that place where you could include him with a light touch and trust your reader to take away what youre trying to say . The keyey there god bless her, i had a very strict word count on this book. They did not want me trying to reach main street meted readers with a phone book sized book about wrestling you need to have it be a sweet spot more people couldnt go thats long enough i will learn something but short enough i might actually finish it. And thats what you want for people exploring a topic they dont know anything about or have heard that things about. So iri was writing it and i reah might word count was only up to 1990. And that was aha problem. I started freaking out. My spouse would previously trying to say hands off at like i dont if this is going to work if we tried to mix business and pleasure here. But i let her take a look. Im really freaking out this is not going to work shes like no im sure it will be fine but let me take a a look but you are rit this man has had too much life to fit into your word cap this book was supposed about his entire life. But that last chapter there is a robust epilogue that takes us almost to present. Last chapter in the 1999. That was one change that happened with my spouse trimming on as an editor. But beyond that her biggest lesson to me was a, shorterw paragraphs. Anyone who reads true believer my previous book will notice i learned paragraphs can be short. And the other was have confidence if you just stick to the facts of the narrative, the narrative is compelling enough the audience will get what you are trying to imply. You do not to beat them over the head with it. The first draft of that thing with 1998 there is a lot of excess prose and can you believe it . That is the thing. [inaudible] bigger ask anyone who reads this book unless youou are a long tie jaded wrestling head and even then i think anyone who reads this book will have moments where you areha going what . Who . I was having these moments i was writing those moments like i feel like i need to draw attention. This is crazy that this happened. Like you just have to trust their going to think the same thing. Maybe not everybody does but enough people have for. Totally thats very valuable editor a guidance as well. Your writing something you are flamed up about but. I get flamed up all the time for. We gotta get that out of your system. I really appreciated the way it is presented feels like he was putting it in my hands to interpret what is happening picks are not going to callto anybody out there someone in the audience you gave me great advice early on what is writing that early version i said something along the lines i want to explain how trump mike wrestling led to trump this person was like please dont do that. There was a great advice to not think of it that way and i didnt. Its a political book but its not how wrestling gave us trump it is how it wrestling offered the lens through which american fascism makes more sense. And through which we can start to understand the things that dontun work has strategies against american fascism. So i did some Fact Checking saying you are evil. Those two things are completely ineffectual or you are a hypocrite you contradicted yourself. One truth is not a factor. And seamus taken off the table you can get on with anything is nothing stopping in america for quickset the genius of i too. First i want to talk about like youre single for the moments i found my like what . Im hollering for my husband and the other from did you know about Saddam Hussein . I know. Courts. [inaudible] [laughter] has him presenting these like trump as sort of these really story id marks. I know. Reading that memoir mlk cb the most famous wrestler reading his memoir is with a wheat or six branches of my life. Interviewing him was even weirder. As memoir he does have the story about being a wrestler early in saddams rate and saddam being like i love this wrestling stuff, its great, its great, totally real. You are a strong guy and can beat them all. Bring people in. I should say my old friend they grew up together. No its all fake is not going to do that. There is an amazing story which might be a wrestling tall tale but i would not be surprised if its true. Basically two out of three match with andre the giant who is not yet named andre the giant they go there before the match they theplan its going to be once te first one that andre wins a second one and a stunning comeback from the tie. As like the birthday of the Iraqi Military i was going to be a big party. The trouble is after theyre they aredone have the secret bae again nobody can know wrestling is fixed. Being printed out and shaking hands before the match with all the dignitaries. One is saddam he says youre going to do great be victorious. I hope on cspan i can quote a swear but thiss guy youre going to take him down he tries a think funny hes going to get this it lifts up his coat has a solid gold pistol. He said if he does anything to you im going to put bullets in him not to send back to france in a pine box. When he is like waves. He is winning the second match and i dont know whether that meant i dont know. He goes into the match was in a headlock at one point. He does not speak a great friendship. Andre doesnt arabic theyre fumbling through english you have to lose, you have to lose this one. Doing it secretly if they gone to the original plan and andre pinned him one, two, three it was a bunch of heavily armed iraqis that would then ignite including Saddam Hussein who threatened to kill andre the giant. Anyway its a very long story. Its filled with stuff like this. Has real influence. There is a montage Gloria Steinem alll, of these people showing up. Youre like one of these people doing in one place customer. Aiming at shows my own understanding of wrestling has meant something thats in the background. There is a a moment the mid 80s like 1984 and into 2000 you just could not escape wrestling during thosere times. Anyway. Had left to go back to something start to talk about earlier. I think another thing in the book delicately does is introduce the bizarre reality of wrestling simultaneously being this thing on its face is hyper masculine. Very classically patriarchal being. The grinding. [laughter] not just thatt not just that. What i find most interesting about the clear subtext of wrestling is not the obvious stuff but sculpted men with colorful clothing and not much of it touching each other okay. Whats really queer in a radical way is you have those two men and they have to show weakness. They have to show a lot of weakness that be very vulnerable. A written essay about this. Its not strength it is weak and she had two people walk into a ring lets say you and i were walking into a ring. You couldnt run but neither of us has any great benchpress. If you walked up to me and i walked up to you and said hey im going to give the finger poke of doom like oh no that hurt so much we are having match. You need to have a one person who is willing to show their secret face of pain and vulnerability and in being out of control. Speaking as a career woman is a very cruel queer thing making yourself a radically open to vulnerability and pain and letting people see it be see you bevulnerable and pain. Quickset is beautiful. It really is. You feel this way about other that makes me the joy of a bunch of the men on a Football Team they are hugging and crying for. Quick to swear motion is allowed. You are sort of like a wow this is the thing as a society we have allowed. Is a lot more about it. At the thing now is convective. its interesting too because there are a lot of stories in the book. I am sure they unfold over the broadcast of wrestling. Its a thing about Vincent Mcmahon being a slippery eel. As a lot of times he earned sympathy. Youd want to believe hes beina genuine but you never know. But you never know. But it seems like a really, really hes good at manipulating reality it manipulated people. I sit down we have this meaningful conversation for the next day hes on howard stern or somethingth talking. But you are referencing a bret harte which i spoke to at length. I spoke to him a lot he was talking about very long story short had thisis conversation after the death of his brother oh one fence was veryy gracious and said i am so sorry. You can have whatever demands you want et cetera. He was on this canadian sports talk tv shows and i met with brett ellie when he does talk about himself. I was so selfish of the death of his brother look into the eyes of a skeleton and all of this stuff. Its very interesting the lord giveth the lord taketh away. There are very few people in this life who can count on having his permanent love. Im trying to think there are a few he can count on loyalty was. There are very few people who can go around thinking vincent loves me how fun. He will never betray me. His daughter was the coceo while he was stepping back because of Sexual Misconduct scandals. She abruptly wants to spend more time with her family. She was the chosen child two. A lot is a black box i dont to speculate too much about whats happening right this second y period its a huge chunk at the end thats an end note. Its a rigorously. And very impressive for. Thank you i did most of those and notes in a 24 hour period because there was a formatting problem and i had not been paying enough attention how to do it right. And i am like i am going to do this it. Im going to wake up at 5 00 a. M. And by 5 00 a. M. The next day im going to do it for. It k seems like the only way though. Was like a college thank. S [laughter] i hadnt live like that it almost 20 years but it worked out. Very glad i did that because not many wrestling books are not excited im not going to see a lot of all of them but a lot of them doon not bother with pointg toward where they got the information. Quickset gives us a levitt level of credibility. Where do you start . Fifty pages hunted that workr unfold for you . Very chaotic i do not have a process. [laughter] every given day seems like the thing i should work on today. It was such a huge undertaking there any number of things that were equally invalid and next trips at any given point. Is you write it moving through chronologically . Eroded chronologically but Research Wise was everything all at once. Great this is perfect. Are going q and a. Who has got a question . Yes. Lovely person of the yellow stripe on her side. We have never met before have we . Whats your question . You talk about this line of dominoes. Something that comes next. How does this with the american thfashion . That is the thing. People keep asking me how does this in book, what should we do . Its trouble when you diagnose a problem. As close as they come up with a solution is lets look at this way. Is not the anime is just a tool. Something that exists and a lot of different disciplines and art forms. When i say religion is a form i dont mean that as an insult to religion or. Its a state of tension between fact and action between irrationality and faith. Your world views are always going to have some degree. And i guess what offer is pick it wisely. An act on it. Minded ideology. Wish i could cite what ideology is the right one. I dont have that kind of rain but find something you believe in that respect their needs. And try to commit to that. Even if it something you come up with yourself, have principles. Have faith. To dispose that to of finding a bad hypocrite we need better than theirs. That is sort of the thing. One side is doing a lot its almost like talking different languages. We need a flipside to come back. Quickset is what im saying. It would be really nice if there was a narrative that you could lose yourself in right now im believe the world would be better if we all enjoyed the show and participate in this magic. I do not see people presenting that kind of vision right now in politics. What they are presenting is much closer to empty calories or theyreey doing republicans is t real, isnt it . Who knows tune in next week. Not because it ideology but because you are confused. Person makes you feel somethingp and it pushes the buttons in your brain. It would be nice if we could get to a place where there is a beautiful store we all chose to believe in. Morekn questions . I have been a fan since as long as i can remember. My dad always told him it wasnt real but that never bothered me. You think about competitive sports its not like they are produced. The reason basketball got rid of hand checking,. [inaudible] they wanted to be more like wrestling every sport envies wrestling. Because wrestling can have the narratives on so i keep going. Theyre all there to make money. If the competition yes . Truth. Who else wants to Say Something . Someone in the back there. Quick something i had in mind when i was reading the book was how grueling of a job at wrestling seems to be paid. Its awful its a terriblel. Job. Yet people still do it. It reminded me true believer, there is a book Marvel Comics story. You read that you see all the stories of people dying horrible that this person has a heart attack, and yet it feels like people do it anyway. You get told the money is the point. You get told the material benefits are not the point. The point is being part of the dream. The big collective cultural dream of pop culture. We have been sold the bill of goods the money and the material things dont matter, all that matters is the immaterial, the magic that it is easy to get exploited. And on top of that there is just something, slightly supernatural about being in a wrestling ring. I have now finally done it myself for the first time. I did not wrestle but the launch of this book event in los angeles featured three wrestling matches. They constructed a ring at the moose lodge in burbank and i stood in it. Evenju doing a little interview like this the person was interviewing me in front of the crowd am i guess i get it, i get it you hear stories like this over and over again wrestlers, referees, managers will tell you the first time you step in that ring in the crowd pops you are never leaving. You are never leaving you are never going to feel Something Like that again. Didnt have a pop i walked into the ring will people were tearing because they like me. But when you have accomplished something in the crowd either booze or cheers depending upon what youre asking them to do apparently thats almost physically addictive sensation. Great question. We have a couple appear. Going on with this person go first regards always carry the book. About his grades. Ask and might need one of those. They may go on yes. King tells a little bit about what wwf got up to in the special period of american. [inaudible] [laughter] quickset rather not go too dark. But the first few years there is a period from fall zero one is when i stopped watching. Not because of 9911 big dick creative had really been dwindling. For various reasons number one being and had become a monopoly to major competitors early in the year. But did not buy the contracts of the big wrestlers from his main competitor. It was a weird muddled situation when i was giving up on anyway. But 911 happened and events over the opportunist becomes a first athletic event the life athletic event to come back. Theres 911 on tuesday then thursday night down happens. He comes out gives a very terrifying speech you could watch it on youtube. It is just let me put it this way, if vince had wanted to run for president i think he would have one. I dont think that was something he was interestedg in. But if he had wanted to if he had wanted to run as a thirdparty candidate he wouldve had a better chance than nader did. Can you imagine if you are a conservative or a liberal in 2000 you walk into the voting booth the option is bush, gore, Vincent Mcmahon. [laughter] im sorry youav have to believe that on cspan for your going to vote for Vince Mcmahon in 2000. You would be living in a much worse much stranger world may be better i do not know. Is thinkingal about it i feel like you describe in the book the wrestling. That is the thing. There is a a period when it gets really juiced up. Like after 911 its not just there is this scary promo i was talking about. For the next few years up in 2007 they really keep trying to push the envelope further and further. And mocking Sexual Assault claims. And my favorite Vince Mcmahon wrestling and winning against god. [laughter] that was something you really cannot make out. One of the most renowned respected wrestlers killed his wife and son and then killed himself. That murder suicide completely derail debbie we. Although vince was a real jerk about steroid use in whatever in wrestling. Although i dont think he felt had much personal responsibility he did pg the content. It stopped being as edgy as it had been for the previous 10 years. Although its not edgy so much anymore it still has kept you never know all fake we will give you all these supplemental material documentaries, books, magazines, whatever. So that when you come to our show on television or streaming or whatever you are playing it alternate reality game in your head about what you think is the reality behind the scenes wrestling. Far out, trippy dudes are. How much time do we have left . We are good . Sounds great. Sounds great. [inaudible] the with the rewrite history those documentaries. The only tape libraries you cannot make a documentary about the territories that vince havet vanquished. The companies that hated him because he owns them. He owns the media that remains of them. And more importantly you dont have Mainstream Media outlets doing serious journalism or history independently about wrestling. So in ww gets a call the shots that come up with the documentaries only partner with a and e, the joke that is a and e they do these biography segments that are obscene there is one on china a womans whose death is on the blood on the hands of wwe and Vince Mcmahon. They tried to tell their own spin on the story of her young death. Its like this is how they get you. They make you think theyre giving you the top layer of liein the bottom layer of truth. In reality its like, like, like, llama may be there is a truth married in that you mix a few truths in there to throw people off and keep it going. Once people dug something up they assume its treasure. And ryan over your question. Im sorry i dont know this person. [laughter] clicks you had mentioned you had been a wrestling fan in your teenage years. Is there ae wrestler or someone in the wrestling business through your research and work your opinion of them are perceptions has significantly changed . Significantly changed. Thats a really good one. Well, i will tell you this. When i see interviews with terry function now i know theres a lot of coaching going into that terry funk was a great wrestlers of all time i got to interview. I had seen recent issue interviews what seems like he was old and taken a lot of bumps to the head i called him maybe it caught him on a bad day. But he has taken a lot of bumps to his head. It was really rough it was not so much a moral change of opinion as a reminder that when you see the product on television, even if it is documentary they took the best it takes. A lot of these guys hurt all of the time. A lot of them are not going to get better. Theres no union, there is no pension there is no employer healthcare. I dont know that was one there something more late. I dont know if my opinion of bret harte change but my understanding of him certainly changed. The big thing i tell people that bret harte if he had not had a father he had was a wrestling promoter on his own and a wrestler, heo wanted to go to film school. When you talk to bret harte at t length you figure out why. He thanks like a movie director. That was why he wase really good he was good at figuring out the peaks and escalations of thea story. Also he gets what vibes feel cool. Those are two things essential to being a filmmaker. G i found that really interesting. Is there anybody else the perception . I did get to interview him but when i was a kid i sort of thought paul payment of debbie e debbie e was interesting. But now that i came back to it as an adult like seven years ago i had this big jewish revelation i had become bar mitzvah but now im really jewish. I think a lot about jewish stuff and paul is facet really hope it gets interview because he is the ultimate like survival in wrestling he is jewish which is unusual or not that many jews in wrestling. You cannot kill paul. He will be the last employee of Debbie Debbie e. [laughter] everyone else will be fired and paul will still be going to vincent sayingli mike tribal chf what you need today . I find them very interesting and hope to interview him sometime. Maybe thats were stop what you say . Ah i love it. Thank you. Thanks for coming out i appreciate it. Think youre overcoming progress past 25 years book tv has been on the air over 1300 weakens cover nearly night or book festivals and featured 22 authors including this event. 1956 my brothers and sisters and some of my First Cousins we went down to the Public Library and little town of troy, alabama trying to get library cards, trying to check some books out. We were told by the librarian the libraries were for white only and not for colored. On july 5 , 98 i went back to the Public Library in alabama for a book signing of my book and hundreds of black sent white citizen shows up and they gave me a library card. [applause] if you are all 92000 plus hours a book tv programming is Available Online . Just visit booktv. Org to watchful programs on your favorite authors. Next on book tv Author Interview program after the daily beat offers ideas on how to hold elected officials