Transcripts For CSPAN2 The 20240704

I hope you all are having a good time. Well start our second panel today. First, i want to introduce the moderator our very own colleen shokin who is a Senior Vice President David M Rubenstein nationals at the white house history of the White House Historical association. Doctor shokin is a trained political scientist with a phd in american politics and bl university as well as a bachelor degree in Political Science from Boston College she is almost 15 years of service and the federal government including prominent roles with the u. S. Senate as well as the library of congress. Doctor shokin teaches government students at Georgetown University and serves as vice chair of the womens Suffrage Centennial commission. Another feather in her cap a lustrous resume and she currently serves as a cochair of the board of directors of the women suffrage at National Monument foundation. Designated by the congress to build the first memorial in d. C. Dedicated to the history of the movement for womens equality. Its a huge deal. [applause] tois begin with our panelists we have elaine rice and bachmann is a state archivist of maryland and a coauthor of a wonderful book designing camelot published by the White House Historical association i am proud to say it was launched and is very rude on july 28 which is Jacqueline Kennedys birthday. I was there for that event i i m tired of practicing law i go into my study i looked through the book and i go back to litigating. Thank you for the signed addition. Like Jacqueline Kennedy herself, ms. Bachmann studded art history at the undergraduate level in her case at indiana university. She isnt expert on browns historical buildings including the w statehouse nuzzles the governors mansion. She is a frequent collaborator of the Current Governor larry hogan. Ms. Bachmann is a former director of artistics property and outreach as well as aged curator of artistic property at the maryland state archives. Next we have mold we have Melissa Naulin associate curator Decorative Arts at the white house just across the street she has served since 2003 and the presidency of george w. Bush. Help posted George Washington at mount vernon the museum and deller Strong Museum of rochester, new york. She holds a master of arts degree from the program and early American Culture at the university of delaware as well as a bachelors degree from smith college. Last but not least we have a susan schoelwer. Executive director the executive director Historic Preservation and collections and the Robert H Smith senior curator George Washington at mount vernon. Where she directs architectural preservation, furnishing and interpretation of george and Martha Washingtons home, the surrounding plantation structures as well as the landscapes. Phd graduate of yale and also an ma graduate from the inter Winter Program at the university of delaware she has a bachelors degree from the university of notre dame. An exhibit that ran from 2016 through 2021 created by her and her colleagues led to the creation of an awardwinning exhibition entitled lives and bound together, slavery and George Washingtons mount vernon please welcome our moderator and our next panel. [applause] [background noises] good morning everyone. Thank you for that very kind introduction. When we were first planning the symposium with the national trust, this was one of the topics that myself and my incolleague max certainly wanted to include but we thought it was one of the most important elements of discussion. I am not a historian i am a political scientist. I approach these types of topics in a particular type of way which is always asking how, why, and to what effect . Today were going to check on the how, the wide, and to what effect . We are going to have some terrific stories talking but historic role of women in preservation from places like mount vernon all the way to the white house. Including our own founder Jacqueline Kennedy which elaine will talk about the course of our discussion were going star susan pate susan, he worked at mount vernon. And mount vernon is the home to one of the most amazing and interesting preservation stories in the United States but with the early preservation storiesab in the United States. You tell us a little bit about that story and can you tell us why women saved mount vernon and not men. [laughter] because they were there. [laughter] they stepped up to the plate. [applause] does today. It is wonderful to be here. If i could have the first slide . All of you being here today you are all invested in preservation. Im sure youve heard the story of the Mount Vernon Ladies Association of the union. I will recap it again briefly in case youre not totally immersed in it as i was not until i got to mount vernon 2010. The association was founded in 1853 by and Pamela Cunningham of south carolina. As a grassroots effort to acquire and preserve the home of the nations founding father. Now it was inspired by a letter from her mother who had seen mount vernon in Something Like the position you see it in that photograph before you. From eight riverboat and was she wrote to her daughter, painfully distressed at the ruins and desolation at the home of washington. The thought passed through my mind, this was her mother writing, why was that the women of this country did not try and keep it in repair if the men could not do it . [laughter] that does seemed like such a blot on our country. To your question, colleen, why not men . I think thats a story of opportunities not taken. In fact mount vernon had been made available by the washington family collateral relatives of George Washington who still owned it. Since the 1830s. Both congress and the legislature of virginity state of virginia had been d approach. In decline because there was no model for preservation at all. Much Less Government owning private property. So congress and the Virginia Legislature both declined. Thought it was remaining in private property when it Pamela Cunningham began the Grass Roots Organization in 1953. Let staffordshire a second question wouldnt have made . There were no precedents for stork preservation at the time. There were no white papers there were no best practices. They were no technical leaflets. Next slide please . Pamela come cunningham and her deputies will be vice regents as they were called and still are called when they came back after the civil war began actively preserving the property. They are really making up the playbook as they go. I think what is notable about pamelas vision it was so conservative and inclusive. From the very beginning she made clear her goal was to restore the house, the outbuildings, the gardens and the grounds as nearly as possible to the condition in which there left by George Washington. Now i say that conservative in the sense it was not she was not trying to improve it or embellish it. She wants to present it to people as washington knew it. Was inclusive because she envisioned it was not just a mansion but all of the buildings that were surviving in 1859. I dont really have the vision i forget what you call it when you imagine what it did not happen. We do have evidence of other suggestions are put forth to her by authorities, by architects, by landscape architects. Those included ideas such as fitting a up the ground as memorial park. Conserving scarce funds might only preserving the mansion and the family tomb for the other structures it was said of the time were of no interest there were only four quote unquote. It was meant the enslaved people who were making the plantation operate and responsible for all of the washington legendary hospitality. Anotherr suggestion was to preserve the mansion by effectively disassembling it, constructing a replica of more durable brick, stone, iron and then applying all of the old interior parts essentially creating a veneer of heauthenticity. And finally, to more enclosing it all in a dome of iron and glass to protect it from the elements. When finally, improving George Washingtons landscape by introducing terraces, woks and flowers thus making the most of the grounds and woods. Because clearly washington had not done enough. Our next slide please. I think all of those were coming from authorities in their fields. Think any of these would have resulted in a far different than what we see today. Arguably could have put in a different tactic. Do i think it made a difference . I think the evidence indicates perhaps it did make a difference. So thank you. Thank you susan for leading a song. We are going to move from mount vernon went to move the white house we are here today at the White House Historical association. Melissa, i know youve done some research recently in a presentation about some the first ladys prayer for Jacqueline Kennedy who engage in preservation efforts at the white house. Share with some of the lesserknown stories. Were these women the necessary predecessors to what we see eventually relates under the Kennedy Administration . I would be happy too. S absolutely sometimes a story of Historic Preservation has a source of the white house and ends often with Jacqueline Kennedy. There are certainly many precedents in place when she became first lady in 1861. Many first ladies were involved in those efforts i went ahead a few today. If i could have the first slide . The first first lady who deserves the credit of promoting Historic Preservation at the white house was lucretia hayes. Her husband Rutherford B Hayes came into office in 1877. First i want to point out she appears on the scene 84 years before mrs. Kennedy. She was with the first, first lady to have an interest in history, genealogy, and looking back at American History. Was very influenced by that. When she got into the white house she consulted with who are serving as library of congress. They decide in what ways that the white house studied the history of the past to prate which up to that point had not been highlighted. One appliance they came up with wasra commissioning former first ladies that were not rep representative. Was very little fine art in the house. You see in the slide two of the paintings. The first of Martha Washington and this was done as a companion piece which was referenced earlier. It is of the same scale. Its of a portrait of what youd seen for many, many years. The portraits at the bottom of john adams is one of the many president ial portraits. Those portraits tended to be copies of a life portraits. Mrs. Hayes was also known for going through, vincent older historic to bring it to her for her evaluation. I think some of things identified could be credited to her but the whole concept in the american of highlighting American History and furnishings is something she highlighted in the selection of the state china service. Which i would argue the service is a most Remarkable Service probably ever created by the white house. Throughout the 19th century because they were not american porcelain factories producing wares considered fine enough for the white house state services they tended to be french and design. They were adamant her service should be. To design, cup up with unique drawings and paintings. American scenes, flora, fauna, animals. Has some of what you see represented on the right. Next w slide please. I wanted to highlight Edith Roosevelt the wife of president theodore roosevelt. Took place in 1902 charles was laying the project really wanted to start with a clean slate in the white house. And really get rid of essentially everything i dont have pictures but if you are familiar with the white house it was a very high victorianstyle. And that had been with the families had used in decorating. Hunter turned to classical condition of the house. Mrs. Roosevelt f put her foot dn on certain things. Mary todd lincoln had purchased for the gas chamber during thats our time. She was going to have it for her bedroom what you see in the center slide. All in use and for that of course in terms of being able to get rid of it. She did that for number thank you the first, first lady to install any museum type museum e insulation in the white house. Cabot commissioned, earning his torah historic state china services. Possibly most importantly she decided the auctions that it happened. That was a real turning point in terms of what remained in the house. Next slide please . And then went to give a shout out to amy eisenhower who is not always considered in discussions of starkhe preservation. She was very interested in. Her pet project was a state china. She was concerned not every president ial family was represented in the white house collection at the time. She is a a lot of techniques kennedy did to highlight her search and to have it publicized and get the word out. She was successful in locating the descendents of the family. You see her there. In sheer numbers of acquisitions for the white house collection towards the top or in terms of the collection that came in under her tenure in 1858. Its believed the donation came about through and eisenhowers friendship was an american heiress. And to entertain the eisenhowers. Serving as a commander of data. And then finally the first room in the white house was introduced under eisenhower. It was not her idea. It was proposed to her by Michael Greer of the National Society of interior designers but she agreed to it. She had notou agreed it would nt have happened. Furnishing a room in the white house with all antiques of the same. So the room that was selected as the diplomatic Reception Room on the ground floor. The over room there their members donated everything to create an essential style parler in 1800. And sell american techniques. Furnishings that would been available to wealthy americans at the time. Those are all donated to the house. You see mrs. Eisenhower present and accepting the donation there. A lot of thenn stage was set. Walks but a perfect transition into a question for you but you of course of the coauthor of the book designing camelot which talks about the efforts of Jacqueline Kennedy and the restoration of the white house. Some people may know the story others may not. Tell us what were some of the institutions mrs. Kennedy put in place that are still operational today. Why was she so interested in restoration of the white house . It wasnt necessary just to Pretty Things are to make things look nice. I really supported the Kennedy Administration. If you could tell us a little bit about that that will be good for audience progress thank you calling, its so good to bepy here. Do as she what i walked into the white house much of life is timing. If you go to the first light of mine please. So much is timing in life. She hadin excellent timing comig into the white house on time and mass media could reach the country through newspapers, television, use a great advantage of the television to repent and 62. But she came into the white house also at its height it is not expected a first lady would have any sort of agenda or a program. She very naturally was onto the interior something she shared ofpresident kennedy a deep lovef American History being very well read in American History. And an appreciation for public residence that had experienced throughout the world put him growing up in her experience jubeing abroad heard junior yea. I became very influenced by the french minister culture and the palaces she saw there. So she famously said was she visited the white house as a tourist when she was 11 years old was a very disappointing visit she felt t like she just shuffled through theres not even a guidebook you could buy. She had an idea about that. She felt like is not an institution that reflected the grand history of the United States. If shes going to come first lady that is what should focus on. We know about what she did in terms of setting up the Fine Arts Committee and soliciting the object to the white house and rechecked institution still ont things. I think what is important to know about her as well she was a lifelong student. She listened, she had advisors. She went to the pot for advice on how to create. Room shoes course listening to bennie mellon about what your ththin tours of the house and exterior and the garden shed a great friend in jane rightay. Always whispering in her ear about collecting. And of course the french decorator as well. As although she certain had a vision of her own she was certainly willing to take that advice from others. I think again the timing of it all came together and that she knew about the evidence of hurt predecessor. She did not ultimately been successful for some very simple reasons there is not a foundation under which to make that legacy will be on her own time there. Shes very smart to work their husbands advisors in setting up first of all the Fine Arts Committee brought in mr. Depalma as a chair. She was honorary chair pogo not only wealthy donors who could contribute financially but having an Advisory Committee of Museum Directors and curators. Hethat set up a Real Foundation immediately set about setting up in 1961 to t protect the interir of the white house. To make the interior may preserve space. That of course establish a Permanent Collection. The Permanent Collection that today is grown into one of theic greatest collections in the world. They were protected for their protected from being sold off. That was the foundation that ultimately to create the white Historical Association is a nonprofit entity there what she could purchase the first guidebook which is and how many printings . What a great legacy. That was another thing she really had a courage of conviction. She wanted them to be a guidebook she could take away for the house but luck but advised her against that point that it was commercializing an attack feet. What a brilliant plan but he told the guidebook for a dollar a copy. The first six and a thousand copies were sold out in a few months. Because of the enormous appeal she brought to the public and sharing what shes doing in the Television Tour of 1962. Ir visitation to the white house tripled in the first year there. You can see the pictures of people leaving the house with a guidebook. She had a brilliant vision. If we could go to the next slide please. Heres the offering of the guidebook when its first for sale in 1962. I want to point out the only two women in their more Jacqueline Kennedy and lorraine. The first curator of the white house also a graduate program. She established a Curators Office the first curator mrs. Pierce was essential in helping to author that first guidebook. The next slide please . Beyond what she was doing in the white house itself, she looked outside its walls and into the neighborhood. His opening remarks on the Lafayette Square print on to credit kathleen gallup about the efforts mrs. Kennedy made to save Lafayette Square. She, and her research at the Kennedy Library realize its the day after the Television Tour aired, vibrate 15 , 62. Mrs. K took a walk the lafayette parkd with dave finley. Under sent for the first on the full extent of the plans that were in place. I think again here is a mentor reaching out to her and utilizing a great appeal but i have to imagine he knewom perhaj someone could make a difference in these plans was Jacqueline Kennedy. She was quite horrified to find out what was in store. In fact her own husband had already approved it. Not because he nessus i thought itut was a good idea but i think as government goes things get rolling i do think theres no way to stop it. She did not feel that way. I think she was buoyed by the popularity of the tour and the popularly of the program thought she could lend her name and influence to this. Before long she was writing a letter im sure recommended by finley policy administrator of the gsa laying out her concern aboutbo this. When and how important it would be to preserve the character of the neighborhood to preserve the 19th century at least the facade of the building so the mafirst row. And by march the administrator requested a meeting with the existing architect, soon the architects about out of the project and john called warnke was on board and the whole thing changed. That isto incredible to think about the influence she had hidden being able to change that program was so far along. She had a sense of what could be done because shed see it as other countries as well. In her letter to the administrator she talks about the Historical Monument laws in france and how those could be applied to the United States. She did it here in washington ultimately later in life she applied that influence to the saving of Grand Central station in new york city. I think she was always quiet about what she did its hard to describe motivation because she famously never talked about it. I want to get one of her quotes ray she did later on talk about when she discovered what would happen Lafayette Square zone be ripped out and horrible thingss place. [laughter] she could not stand by. I have a very favorite question i like to ask of smart people i would terrific collection of smart people on stage with mehi today. As the hard question is the warm up questions now this is deafly a hard question. One day there will not be the first lady of the United States even though its always been the case for 230 odd years. One day there will undoubtedly be a first gentleman in that role as the first spouse. How do you c think when thatca happens, when that day comes this is called hypothetical. On that day comes how will this role of preservation that is been assumed by first ladies as we know we have already heard of it has been historic. Howdy think thats going to change question michael changed a little bit . Will change somewhat, greatly . What im asking is what is the role of gender and how does that affect Historic Preservation project with the white house but in general. Who wants to take a crack at this one . Oh dear. [laughter] [laughter] sorry. Is looking in this direction. While it is something we have contemplated during 2016 we had the first female candidate on the major ticket. I think that was a little different. I started under george w. Bush not of the clintons but a lot of the staff id worked with and a lot of the staff was used to bill clinton there was some trepidation about what this would all mean in terms of the traditional role. We say traditional role but i think as susan could speak to the earliest president s in terme of furnishings and that were very involved much more so than they were later. First ladies take over summer in the mid 19th century i would say assuming they have the role of making a home and in charge of shopping and furnishing the white house. The work will largely bef the same for many years but the bulk of the work i would argue is done by a designer. That the president and first lady higher to execute the vision they set out. And then of course the staff of that designer and the staff of the white house. I do wonder how the credit will be made. I think that is where again because they change. I think of the matter the second gentleman is married to a woman orav a man . That could have a large role in how that role is seen. I think we will all be interested on exactly that how that rolls out what happens. I think the credit will be the major difference. The fact mrs. Candy came and there is not an idea of the first lady had to have an agenda. Now just a neat 60 years was probably going to be preservation it can be all manner of things. I dont think there has to be an expectation a spouses take on that role frankly because the good work put in place over the years and established by mrs. Kennedy. There is a freedom to do whatever you want. The house is not going to wrack and ruin. I dont think therell be an expectation you have to take on that role. Melissa and elaine have made most of the points i was interested in. Historically and broadly with when and how it comes to see a gendered role. Reset the residence in new york for washingtons inauguration in 1789 they only have a few weeks. Congress is empowered to spend the money to furnish a president s house. They effectively say get someone else to do it. Theres a committee of two women who find the furnishing for the first resident. Washington gets there and is very involved im very interested in what is the impression of the presidency put forth for this new nation for foreign diplomats coming in trying to strike the balance between not seeming to imperial but also meeting thegn expectations of the foreign dignitaries. Note shes a very involved with the furnishings are of the three president ial residence through new york and one of philadelphia. And also the fine for the president s house. Theres a really interesting dynamic look at the agenda for the president s house it. I think elaine, to your point their structure in place now so how does that change with the traditional dynamic has been . Quicksand is preparing for this panel i found a terrific quote in an essay in an edited volume on history of women in architecture i like to read the quote. She wrote all the women have led the Historic Preservation movement, the history of women has not been adequately preserved. I wasll really struck by that i thought wow thats right. All thes work i did with the womens suffrage and will continue to do if not to be the case. These sortable artifacts for the most part have been adequately preserved by all the perfect institutions we have in placee, both the federal and private. But the story had not been told and that was the challenge. We had to get those objects out there. We had to be able to tell the story of the women who fought for the 19th amendment. I asked this question of view, why is there a divergence . Why has the actual task of Historic Preservation done so well . Why are we still finding it challenging to be telling the stories about women as we talk about American History and important episodes of american t history. Why is there and say, many and what can we do to make it better . So much of government has been k government of men. So that is the story that has gotten told that i feel like, is not a single historian i work with today or anyone on the staff at the archives are a neat museum i have been in that has not been out looking for those other stories. Maybe its a little harder to find. Maybe you are looking at other sources. You have to go beyond what is written about a particular yadministration and administration by that administration. That is not the real story of got to dig into other archival material. I think the information there has got to be laid out in a different way. This is the large question about the nature of the proper subjects of history itself. Its not just preservation but history itself. To me there are two aspects of that question. One is what we are precisely preserving that as an additive of going out and looking at what sites we are preserving and in communities. Theres also the question of questions we are asking about the sites we are preserving. There are so many sites in president ial and otherwise it have rich stories that we have not been asking all the questions we could be about. I think that came up in our last panel talking about sites being dynamic. The physicals fabric of the site may be changing at mount vernon we are still committed to the vision of preserving and presenting at mount vernon as washington knew it. But that washington knew it as a plantation which was worked by enslaved people. So wee are asking entirely different questions to broaden that story that we are telling. Much may be said about womens history in the same way. There are so many stories that begun to two at the womens involvement in c it in e sites. That will be the key house case at the white house as well . Yes. Think elaines point in thinking about the history that has mental maybe start with the working groups on terms of what was preserved in terms the documentation . Kind of starting their and susan was saying the questions have brought in so much. As you begun to understand is not just the history of our political leaders like and none that needs to be preserved. But theres all kinds of people of different races, ethnicities, Sexual Orientation and gender, all of this things which we are looking for evidence of that history in those documents and may have been overlooked before. Im just prioritizing learning and sharing those histories just have not been highlighted. I think women will continue to do a lot of that work but again fortunately the fields have opened up so much for us to be so much more aware of what is out there. Correct thank you prettily have one of the points. I think theres a really interesting question about womens philanthropy. Specifically womens philanthropy on how that fell in the history of women and how preservation fits into it takes on a bigger role in philanthropy. Its a very good point of her interesting point. My last question before we go to our audience here and then also our virtual audience that is out there watching the symposium as you have questions as well type them in our Comment Section will try to get to those too. My last question is you are all leaders in the field of Historic Preservation in your respective positions and jobs. What are the challenges that face women on the field of Historic Preservation today . What is goinge . Well and where n we improve . I approach this by convening my own little panel of four women who work for me at. [laughter] who have come into the from different paths. One ofia those is an architectul historian. One is a project manager who is coming from a construction field. Their perspectives weree graded according to those backgrounds. Id seen a bit more of what they saw our gender bias and harassment. Can she really do that handson job and those coming in from academic areas sought as much more imbalanced. Whats surprising to me as their is thereconcern was not so mucht what they were encountering. Its really struggle with finding the issue of finding people who can do the actual work the traits, craft, conservation. Thats i what was for them the real question of how do we bring more people, more women but more people in general into doing preservation. My specific role, state archivists of maryland to choose what is kept in perpetuity. Its a huge t responsibility. A lot of thats written in the law and retention schedules the government records special collections and even what records of government are kept you can see over time about social justice issues those records are lost hundred years from now the seminole place of about we choose to preserve is going to tell the story at 100 years having your staff helping you having women on your staff for having people of color. People from marginalized underrepresented communities. Helping make those decisions. Make me a better state archivists and make that state archivists openly be more representative of the. We are living in now. When you have women as yourselves in leadership positions that makes it so much easier the amount of 11 in that field are very few. Really in the United States. , i was very fortunate i had a lot of mail mentors they were welcoming and encouraging a mail mentors who wanted more women who wanted more people in this field. Its either one or the of its having more women in those roles are having men that really want women to step up and it really really betheir successors in th. Lets open this up to our audience. I think we will probably have a lot of very good questions for the panel. Sure we have our microphone that will be moving around. Are there any questions . Over here. Thank you. Elaine, i love listening to talk about the early committee. I remember when i call the hairdryer. The letter is wonderful. But i wanted you to talk a little bit f about was the push and pull and neither one of them were actually thinking about kipreservation, right . Us right thank you leslie. As a former director, leslie isan honor to have you here. Yes the letters are fascinating. You really see the many, many personalities mrs. Kennedy was working with. And it is alsoo fascinating introduction was made when he became chairman and a very formal type letter. But then on all the letters are hand written and one was under a hairdryer while she was congratulating him something is clear from the beginning that is why she needed for her program. He was 80 and she was 31. The french decorator cake decorated palaces in europe brought him into the project. Competent french decorators in the white house. He had this tradition has a grand dimension. Assign putting a window curtains on your living room windows you have to think architecturally. Neither one of them they were thinking as an decorators what backdrops could they create. She ultimately had her eye on the final act about the final solution would be. She ultimately got what she wanted. But you saw the growth that she had. She was a lifelongm student. When mrs. Kennedy started her project is on be very focused the earliest period of the white house and the furnishings of monroe. It was really mr. Dupont who encouraged her to look be on that to the full breadth of the white house for she came upon herself and shes understand the architecture. She came to an appreciation of that period of architecture which i think plate into her appreciation later on. She was a master diplomat and dealing with someone so young. As aha young professional female in the field want to advise you help my generation to continue the work you have all done for what youre hoping for. During this time. In your professional development. [laughter] thats a hard one. I guess what i i would say its always been doing the research. Knowing what the evidence was for what you want to do. Its a thorough job of the research you base your argument on. Twentyfive pages singlespaced with footnotes people say that by and in my experience to what you are saying. My experience ive encouraged people to do is especially starting out is to take any opportunity whether it is working retail. Whether in my case working on the floor of a childrens museum, doing with all kinds of things. I will be doing admissions, and is able to do 20 hours in the Curators Office. All those realworld experiences and see that total functioning was incredibly important. And being able to to fulltime position. With mail mentors and wonderful female mentors. Anytime we can spend with people they can imagine to achieve it and be around people who are educatedec thats either going o learn. Seek out people doing the kind of work you want to do and try to spend time with thatal perso. This is a very generous field we are in i always benefited reaching out to someone sharing and giving back or paying itnd forward. As a great beneficiary of that. I guess i would add onto that dont be afraid to ask questions. Do not assume everyone you are working with has all of the answers. Because a story that has been passed down and handed down over the years may have gotten brighter over theth years. So dont be afraid too be the nw kid on theha blocks. Why are we doing this and go back to the primary sources and dig into it. The question of her here . Hi, good morning. The whole field of women in historic is so rich. Thank you all for your comments this morning. You mention the centennial expedition of 1876. And that anniversary is something that really inspired mrs. Hayes. We frequently think about that occasion for directed preservation. In all the historic preservatio movements in the 1890s et cetera. I am just wondering if you or any of the other panelists have specific points in history or societal influences that are also coming together. Influence their interest in Historical Preservation. It sounds like a good question. It is. The whole concept is really hard, at least for me to go back to a mindset where preservation was not even considered. Was not considered a priority. Was not consideredd important. In terms of the auctions which i referenced. Anytime something was seen as unfashionable, worn out because of a constant struggle for congressional the early president s were getting money for finishing the house. And selling off the old things was the way they brought in new money to buy what they wanted. So again, just the concept old is okay. And something that i think really came out during that period i was thinking as alayna was talking earlier i know for me and first being introduced to your work the concept of Henry Francis dupont the preservationist and the equation, coming on a winter tour and having worked on a dresss that had been taken apart with the seat upholstery. That was not necessarily the vision that i came out with many years later. But to understand mrs. Kennedy to i think borrowed and it caused a lot of problems for the staff of the whiteng house likeh my goodness why am i even here . Because again mrs. Kennedy took over in terms of her decisions. Im probably straying far from the question. It is just amazing to see the fact concepts of what is Historic Preservation has changed sot much. Brought us forward with the wonderful thing we are still going. There is no stopping point for concerns for historic authenticity. Concern for telling stories. What is historic . I think what youre seeing now that was progress at its time. And he considered himself a scholar. Now, we have moved beyond like the last 20ed years weve lived through the last 10 years we have lived there. You have seen and all the panels this morning what does it mean to preserve the site . How should it be interpreted . The social Justice Movement and all of the people coming to work for the archives now are the young exciting people who are coming out of an education totally different from mine and having a different perspective way beyond. No one expected to go beyond the southern Plantation House now and see how the rich white folks live by that is not acceptable. Nora said the most distant integ thing about history. Preservation is 70 observation to be the truth tellers. You can get through objects and interiors. And how you are either preserving a site or not preserving as it were. All of it is a product of its time. We are living in a time of near revolution when interpreting historic sites. It is exciting. Where did theyre go from here . I do not know but i think we will look back on this. And you sought in the wonderful presentation this morning and how people look at traditional sites. There is so much more to tell. We have a question from our live stream. Jena from facebook asks how can the media play a role in ensuring a lesson on stories and contributions of women and minorities to Historical Preservation . The question is how can the amedia play a role in telling e lesserknown stories particularly related to women . And minorities in Historic Preservation . [laughter] cooks is kind of hard for us to speak for the media. We can certainly use social media and the way people talked about today, and how we get stories out and things that we produce. Too again i think start pointing to the questions that have not been asked. And to get those questions out to get to people in the media how some of those questions can relate to Current Events or looking forward. I think its kind of on us to get some of those questions out there. That people do not know are there. Its a partner in historic or historic site. Could tell by the White House Historical was extremely talented historians and the tistaff on staff and write a history and discovering new stories to tell. And of course you can put those on your website. But in control of your social media. With the Mainstream Media different outlets to be able to help you spread the story until and new ways. People are are unaware of you at this moment in time. When two expertsts told correct. Make sure its told wholly and authentically. We rely uponle outlets to help s do these things. But we are constantly looking for new media partners. Because all of the time i am k thinking a tree falls in the forest but no one hears it fall, didnt really fall . Doing the history correctly is a first step in putting it forward and easily acceptable manner so people can consume it is the first part of the process. Then the second part is the outreach which media plays a Critical Role played thats why its important for associations path and Media Contacts that work with to be able to help us really expand our reach. And so more people can learn and understand. For sure. At the clinical piece in the process i think, question here . Not to get political. [laughter] but there has been a concerted effort in many states to affect what history is being taught. And i live in virginia we are one of those states. I know other states have seen and certainly in florida. I am wondering, knowing what your positions are to find the facts, preserve the facts and share those facts. Are you seeing this have any effect on Historical Places in such doing that . Because it is certainly a problem from my perspective and aneducational standpoint in the classroom. I can say that i have not had an impact anything that i have done in maryland. I use my bully pulpit any time i have it. It is probably a small one to shout out i dont how critical became a bad word. Tell the truth of history. I am keenly aware of what is happening. Have not had impact me yet. I feel veryye concerned. Week, at mount vernon were doing a lot of outreach to teachers. We have summer teacher institutes we have teachers coming in from all over the country. I think those are primary selfselecting. People are coming in who want to learn about the founding era and different aspects of George Washington. His error and the problem he can process. Im not looking directly at the teacher programs. I have not heard from our educators they are not having a direct impact. I think teachers who come in are grappling with those questions certainly. And looking for strategies that they can take information that they sit at they learn from mount vernon and developed techniques for Critical Thinking and analysis and reading primary documents and go back to their Home Communities and play that forward. It is certainly a critical dialogue thats happening right now. That is something historic spaces have a role to play as a touchstone. As a place that grounds people. Will be doing a lot of k12 in the summer obviously with our teachers. In taking advantage of that. I look forward to hearing what teachers have to say when they come toward teacher institutes this summer both in person and are virtual program. I would know more if i was able to interact with them. The Circle Association we take the view were going to tell the history objectively, completely and authoritatively. That means telling a story whoever plays an important part. Might be women. That might be enslaved people. It might be black people native american, we are going to help. That we tell it completely. We will provide those stories to teachers to use in the best way possible so they can use the histories effectively in the, classroom. But i think our mission is kind of like when ever you are running a long distance. There are a lot of distractions along the way it is to keep your eye on and finish the prize. We keep our eyes on the finish line here. Its hard by some of these noise thats going around in the country. We feel our mission and our purpose is to do the best possible until the most complete history it accurately and objectively as possible. The authoritative sources and doing it well. Thats the vision we keep on the long ball off the short ball. Keeps coming to mind and its the truth. I think theres been a lot of discussion in the media and delsewhere about what is true ad how do we know its true . How do we know who to believe . For me its always about being able too. When you are telling the truth you do not have to worry so much. And standing on that. And also trying to help people e understand how to evaluate and how do you evaluate what is true what is not true . It goes back to making sure we are very clear about where our information comes from. How do we know what we know . Why, not just we believe that we think or it is our opinion. That being able to show it in the documentation. Well always go back to the primaries that. This is history to me. It is not simply a collection of facts. Its effective skill its a life skill. We need to use it everyday mama and we are reading but is out there in a newspaper and aal social media. But its the argument being made question of what is the evidence that supports it . Does that evidence makes sense internally . Thats a whole water affected. Thats what so critical to me is history. Questions . Em click this but be somewhat blasphemous to ask this question. I was struck by a calm and all of your presentations, not only the womens but also the woman behind the women. When i saw that structure of marine pierce at the guidebook it may be think more about asking this particular questionw of elaine and melissa. It was the person hidden to the side . What was her role early on in the Kennedy Administration . And her legacy that only serves as a First White House curator and with that means but how that continues to shape the Curators Office . I will do the historical background and you can talk about shape. Use a recent graduate of the program handpicked by Charles Montgomery and henry j cox to come down here be the first ycurator. Mrs. Kennedy wisely knew you needed professional. She was perfect for the position because her thesis had been shot thesh cabinetmaker fit in beautifully with the french furnishings at the white house. You think they got on. I think bassist kennedy was difficult to work for. I dont think i am revealing any secrets here. The rain was coming into a job he had no precedent for this to scope of work. The site go down and do this job but she had her loyalties for deposits. She had french working in the house as well. She had to play a role that did not have ait scope of work. Difficult position to beol in. That said her role to be scholar on the job. The short time she officially worked in the white house which is about a year end a half brought a documentation heres furnishings in the white house this is the source material in d here is their history. Bring it great the scholarly reputation to the project. And then, because newspaper article were it was a phenomenon she was a scholar and a mother preach at a 15 monthold son. Her husband was a distant curator at the smithsonian for here she is today. Had a fulltime job in raising kids but that time is highly unusual. It was balancing a lot she was enormously popular to the press that monitor can give lectures, goatee, ms. Kennedy wanted her in the Curators Office doing the work. Friction there. So grateful to lorraine the past 22004. He she is alive and wellin georgetown answering my thesis 30 yearse ago. She invited me gunter has to go through all of her papers and told me all of her stories. None of which i can publish for the most part. [laughter] that would be the best sellers. Maybe we could check out that another time. She was very gracious about thats our time i there. She admitted it was difficult to be in that role but she was a trailblazer. William voss elder the third was the assistant curator shortly hired after lorraine. He stepped beautifully into the position. His great fit for that role i think between the two of them and of course jim ketchum rather hills establish standards where they had not been any before. So here is the legacy right here. I am overwhelmed every time. What mrs. Pierce accomplish in 18 months. It was just stunning. Honestly it makes you want to get up and quit. [laughter] he was under so much pressure. Leading the correspondence between her and the kennedys there many times i dont think i could have done at all. Mrs. Kennedy had such a role. I would argue a lack of understanding of what she was asking. At one point she comments one think this guidebook done. The guidebook is a huge part of the program. It is usually important. But i guess at some point mr. Pearson something along the lines of that is at least a 10 year project. No and she says you dont have 10 years. And i also makes if the president s doing all he is doing. Okay, but look at this stuff the president has in terms of what he is accomplishing. The ability the whole professionalization the Curators Office in 1964. So technically under president johnson. At least im not familiar with any other documents looking under that much direct supervision. [laughter] and again the other letter that blew my mind i think it was mrsn talking to about the new cataloging system that she had learned. This was the system and this is the system shehe went to use. But i have had a system in place for the last year. But start over part are you really asking to start over and do everything . Again there is such a disconnect between the two of them. Licorice heart goes out and i am so grateful. Certainly there are manyes challenges. But we are not seeing that type she really pioneered away. And a way to be a professional in that position. That has benefited us also im very grateful. Thank you melissa for a terrific conversation about a very important topic. Thank you for all your excellent questions. 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